Trash Smash Moves: Marth's Jab (Brawl)
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- Marth in Brawl was a pretty good character but as good as he was, not all of his tools were equally as effective and Marth's jab was one of his less effective tools to say the least.
0:00 Intro
0:31 Overview
1:21 Why it sucks
8:07 Uses
11:35 Conclusion
12:12 The end?
My Trash Smash Moves playlist: • Trash Smash Moves
My pre patch Smash 4 analysis playlist: • Pre patch Smash 4 char... - Ігри
Thank god marf got down tilt
this is the funniest possible goddamn comment I love you
Yeah, Mof totally needed a buff
I dont use it as Melee Marth bc i like to actually use effort to KO my opponents instead of using cheddar to beat them.
@@tipsybun Lmao
Mahf
It’s pretty surreal seeing this move go from pretty decent in Melee, to bad in Brawl, to terrible in Smash 4, to excellent in Smash 4 (lol), and then back down to mediocre in Ultimate. What a rollercoaster of a move.
The Melee version is amusingly enough super similar to the Brawl version, just with slightly better frames and range. The main thing in Melee which saves it is that the game’s faster falling speeds make it far more threatening against off stage opponents, further helped by the fact that 2 of the best characters in the game are Fox and Falco and they get screwed by jab harder than most of the cast. That off stage threat is considerably smaller in Brawl.
I loved smash 4 buffed jab sm
marth is a top tier in melee not just decent, also marth is good in brawl as well
They were referring to Marth’s jab specifically, not the whole character.
@@alfredoact4 Please learn to read
i cant wait for the 3 hour dissection of every single move in marth’s kit (including final smash) i love esoteric stuff like this
Thanks. I’m not going to spend 3 hours talking about Marth when I (hopefully) eventually look at launch Smash 4 Marth, I will still have a lot to say.
Brawl content is becoming more common nowadays and im all for it, good video, great game
ty. I've been at in for a while now but the increase in Brawl content in recent years is truly awesome to see.
Brawlternative is mah goat. I like Coney's occasional Brawl content too
Me too
After spending some time trying to work out what video I wanted to make, I have returned. I hope that this video was worth the wait. I really want to thank you all for the support my last Smash video received, it was far beyond what I expecting and I cannot thank all of you guys who supported it enough, it means the world to me. If you enjoyed the video then do feel free to show your support as always, I highly appreciate any support these videos receive.
I think you may be confused on the "vanilla" in regards to game versions. "Vanilla" refers to a commonly-modded game in a state without mods. The term you seem to be looking for in this video is "Release" or "Day 1." Hope this helps for future content! ^^
Vanilla in gaming can mean both things. I've definitely heard it in both contexts a lot. In fighting games/Smash at least, Vanilla is absolutely used to mean "the release version".
@@bigbangbot-SuperSqank Really? I've never heard it used in that way. If that's so, then using the same term to refer to both things sounds like it'd get confusing. What if we're dealing with a non-updated copy with modifications? Or an unmodified copy with all the updates?
(Not to mention that "Release" and "Day 1" are both 1 syllable shorter than "Vanilla," and the latter is 2 keystrokes shorter :P)
@@bigbangbot-SuperSqankyou are🗑️Moves not The characters get that clear.
I remember that when I was a kid I though Marth had a 1-hit jab, just like Ganondorf, because I never noticed the difference between hit 1 and 2. That being said I almost never played with him because my brother was the one who picked it first and we had some sort of gentleman rule of not touching eachother's mains (Not that I'm complaining, I picked Olimar, Ice Climbers and Meta Knight while he picked Ike, Sonic and Link).
Man, people dunk on Samus' jab for not comboing, but who knew Marth had it nearly as bad?
Considering how good the rest of Marth is in Brawl, I almost wonder if his jab was intentionally designed to be bad. Then again, the judgement of only 4 casual-level playtesters is not something I exactly trust...
Samus’ jab actually comboes into the second hit way sooner than Marth’s in Brawl and it has way better frames. Marth’s jab was not eating good to say the least.
tbh samus jab 1 was a good move before ultimate
Another niche option that I personally use jab for is to mix-up in the middle of dancing blade at lower percent, and then start another dancing blade. If it works, you get more horizontal distance out of dancing blade, which already has a lot. But it's still pretty niche in usage.
I think that links back to my point of using jab as a mixup, in addition to relying on the opponent being thrown off enough by the jab. Still, this is an interesting insight from a high level Marth player, ty for sharing Tori.
ur editing is funny. and i binged ur whole series!
ty. I aim to have my own style so my videos can be unique compared to similar types of videos.
He's back!
Thaanks for talking about sm4sh marth, made this video extra fun. It's interesting how unbalanced vanilla sm4sh is, I'd like to see another vid exploring the marcina weirdness.
I like your thourough explanations about frame advantage and niche setups, especially mentioning character specific punishes like Yoshi grab. It's kinda ironic that Brawl Ike is an opposite to Marth with worse attributes overall but a much better jab
Also did not expect the talk about vanilla sm4sh jab
Thanks. I do love talking about the more niche and specific stuff in this game. Brawl is a deeper game than people less familiar with it realise and the game is filled with a lot of niche and specific oddities (which makes the game extremely fun to research). The Vanilla Smash 4 part was something I decided to include for fun. It made the video longer and it made the video take longer to make but I decided to go ahead with it anyway for fun.
Great video, i love this series. There's really nothing else like it on youtube. It's cool how in-depth you go into these niche moves. the vanilla sm4sh marth and lucina idea is great. def do that
ty. The Vanilla Marth/Lucina idea is something which probably won’t happen too soon but it is definitely a possibility for the future.
another banger, and so soon after i find this gem of a channel? excellent stuff. with the uptick in brawl content that goes into its complexities, it's almost like a whole new game after having not played it since i was a kid.
ty. Brawl is definitely a more layered game than people realise indeed.
Competitive Brawl content just pops in my feed again after ten years. I'm all for it.
AND SO HE RETURNS!!
Great video, man! Love the editing style!
ty.
Love this series!! Brawl is still my favorite smash game and it’s cool seeing more videos on it :D
ty. Brawl is my favourite too and I love researching the game and sharing my research on it.
I honestly didn't expect a Marth video.
I didn’t expect to watch a 17 minute video of Marth’s jab in a game I don’t have on a console I don’t have, but I did.
I like this move because it does the funny swish swoosh
I miss how it was in smash 4. Its what made marth and lucina fun for me
Ultimate in general homogenised jabs and made they less interesting/varied. All multi jabs are pretty much designed in the exact same way to jab lock and let all hits connect in a specific way and it is a bit of a shame.
I miss double F-Air
The goat returns
Welcome back bad fighting games moves(smash edition)
Bad balance??
New video! Bracing for that one Encanto pic as we speak
Edit: 2:14 :)
So greatful that you uploaded again! Slowly becoming one of my favourite series of youtube
ty. My upload schedule can be slow at times but I am always willing to make more of these videos.
@@bigbangbot-SuperSqank no problem! sometimes having a slow schedule can help u make the vid better
The king is back! (and ftr I don't mean Marth)
Awesome video, especially since it’s about my main :)
I think brawl Captain Falcon would be a good candidate for this series,
- Up special (slow, exploitable recovery, no kill power, less horizontal reach when turned around)
- Side special (no combo/kill potential, slow and very punishable, awful recovery tool)
- Jab (multi-jab AND gentleman both suck)
- The knee (tiny hitbox, tons of landing lag, sour spot sucks,)
I could go on but whoever is next I will definitely watch
Thanks. Falcon's jab is funnily enough one of his best moves. It is his fastest move on the ground by a longshot and the first two hits have pretty favourable knockback to set up into other things (mainly grabs). The third hit and rapid jab suck but rapid jabs being terrible is normal in Brawl so it's not a big deal. You just do jab 1 and 2. Jab is a pretty vital tool in Falcon's kit in Brawl as its the only fast ground button he has to either start offense or to defend.
Up B isn't great (especially with the turnaround momentum) but Ganon's is a lot worse. Knee isn't too bad either. It's main problem is that with Brawl's mechanics, Falcon lacks any practical comboes into the move in most matchups. The move was mostly nerfed going into 4 but it ended up being significantly more effective, largely due to universal changes. Side B is a maybe although I'm not sure if there will be many interesting things to say about it.
It would be fun to talk about Falcon in this game but he doesn't have anything I really want to talk about. It could happen in the future though.
@@bigbangbot-SuperSqank I guess with all his other moves being slow his jab isn’t that bad of an option.
Yeah when it really comes down to it Brawl’s mechanics more than anything murdered this character.
this was an amazing video
ty
Good video but you forgot to mention one thing.
Brawl Marth jab also has some stupid high clash potential. It can clash with moves like a whiffed Wario Fsmash and can sometimes mix up and drop your opponents guard. It’s goofy but an option on certain moves when you see and react to them.
One thing I definitely did overlook in all fairness is trading jab with other moves. When jab trades at close range, Marth does actually have the frame advantage after a clang which he can use to set up mixups. This applies to every normal Marth has but jab is his fastest ground move without transcendent priority so it can be used for quick trades into a mixup. I didn’t really realise I missed that until the video was already uploaded.
Whiff punishing with jab is something you can do with the move like you said. Marth always has other options as better whiff punishes but if you do end up using jab, it could maybe lead into a mixup if the opponent is thrown off enough.
@@bigbangbot-SuperSqank Yup, I remember learning this when I had a money match with False(?) when I was a poor high school kid I money matched him with two rolls of pennies and he accepted.
Awesome video, great to see this series return! I was curious if you would consider jab to be Marth's worst move in Brawl? I always thought that it would be dash attack since that move seems to be underwhelming in every game after Melee to my understanding
It might be. Dash attack is underwhelming but it does work like you would expect. It works as a whiff/long range punish and you can even combo into it in some situations, mainly from a grab release in some matchups. Marth also doesn’t have anything else which acts as a clearly superior alternative to dash attack unlike with jab. It’s main problem is that it is a bit too laggy.
checking this guys most popular videos is an experience
To say a made a lot of weird stuff as a kid would be an understatement for sure.
Request: DK's dash attack on Smash 64
I love Brawl Marth so much, he is so fun
0:20 despite not possesing something over centralizing
Falco: laser gun
Diddy kong: bananas
Ice climbers: GRAB
Those were all examples of over-centralising tools. :)
@@bigbangbot-SuperSqank
Olimar: Pikmin throw.
Snake: Up-Tilt and Grenade.
Meta Knight: Half of his kit.
great video
ty
One way jab was useful is platform pressure- jab from the ground could tipper opponents on battlefields platforms iirc
Can you talk about vanilla smash ultimate Mega Man? This character was considered so broken he was nerfed only a month after the game came out. I think it would be interesting to see a deeper dive into what made him so overpowered that he had to be changed that quickly.
That would be an interesting topic for sure but I don’t really have any plans to look at pre patch Ultimate in the forseeable future. If I ever do get around to looking at pre patch Ultimate though, that would be a very good topic.
Brawl’s graphics are SS tier, alongside its OST. You should make a video about that.
11:27 What’s the name of that song you used?
One of the cutscene songs from Enchanted DS (yes, it is a very wacky origin). ua-cam.com/video/e3NTqLwps_o/v-deo.html
@@bigbangbot-SuperSqank Thank you so much! I love your vids, going to subscribe
As an Ultimate Player who completed/plays everyone a little bit here are a few recommendations
I mean Jigglypuff's Tilts are all....pretty bad, but this is intentional as well, Jiggly Puff is meant to be in the air, not on the ground so these tilts are last resorts if you can't use a superior move like Jab or even Pound for...some reason so I guess it gets a pass.
Pac-Man's Up Tilt is G A R B A G E, no damage, no range, no knockback and it's slow and the hitbox is really really small. You're better going for a Up/Neutral Air rather than using this thing. Seriously, literally any other move is a better choice to go for than this thing.
I wouldn't say Little Mac's Air Moves are THAT bad since I have seen Little Macs using them as combo tools.
Bonus:
Brawl Mario's FLUDD is another tool that could qualify here, it just doesn't knock back enough. In Smash 4 it's similar it's not until Ultimate where they finally figured out the knockback.
I wonder if Raptor Boost is bad enough in Brawl to warrant an entry in this series 🤔
Possibly. Raptor Boost is in a weird spot in Brawl where it doesn’t combo and it doesn’t kill but it would depend if I had enough interesting things to say about it.
Maybe this sounds stupid but... I thought MK had the worst "jab" in Brawl? The rest of his kit is JACKED but the HOEHOEHEYA is tiny, commital, does no damage/knockback, and has absurd endlag.
Not only outclassed by all his other moves, but outright terrible, maybe the worst jab in ANY Smash game. Or is there some tech that makes it a frame 1 instakill?
Yeah, MK’s jab is one of the worst in this game. An exclusive rapid jab with bizarre hitboxes. It has some niche applications but it is far outclassed by other moves in MK’s kit.
I’m training with Marth for supernova, AKA smash con, so this is interesting to note how useless jab actually is if someone is prepared!
I feel like music at the background would make the video better
I have considered the idea of background music but I ultimately decided not to include any for these videos. This is mainly because I want to avoid any potential copyright issues with music and no music allows the viewer to put on their own music on in the background. It’s ok if you are not a fan of the lack of background music.
@@bigbangbot-SuperSqank nah it was just a random thought i had watching the video, i don't usually need music, but i just felt weird watching especially this video without music, i guess the pacing of the video, idk
But really good video anyways!
ty
Luigis down tilt?
Maybe.
@@bigbangbot-SuperSqankhow good is the tripping chance for his down tilt?
It’s a bit less than a 50/50 chance.
I don’t think the issue with jab is that the opponent can capitalize off of it, it’s that you can’t find anyone to use jab on in the first place.
what is RCO lag ??
Basically, when certain special moves are used (and you don’t land while using them), they give you way more landing lag the next time you land, which is naturally quite exploitable. It is still a thing in later games but it is much less prevalent. www.ssbwiki.com/Landing_lag_glitch
@@bigbangbot-SuperSqank interesting, ty
Man smash players just don't know what an option select is. Covering more than one option does not an option select make
Commenting for algo
i really feel like "option select" just does not make sense for any smash game. i mean technically your covering 2 "options" in jab 2 or no jab 2 but at the end of the day, effectively, your just punshing jab 1 in both cases, really
I mainly used the term because in my head (when writing/recording), it seemed like the simplest and quickest way to state the situation without needing to explain it in too much detail every time. I do apologise if it is ultimately the incorrect way to use the term, I will aim to try and avoid this mistake in the future but it is a bit too late to change it now.
@@bigbangbot-SuperSqank i mean its not like your hurting anything ( ´∀｀)
ive just seen people try to adapt the term to smash over the years and it usually doesnt really work. "option select"s are usually built into the game and are based off of an input priority system or freeze frames etc. one example is attempting to hit someone and option selecting an input. if the opponent blocks the attack, the freeze frames of the block prevent the input from going through, leaving you free to react and do something else, but if the opponent tries to flee, the input will go through, hitting them. the idea is the one input doing different things depending on what happens in game
i vaguely remember a couple of very specific option selects existing in the series but theyre real specific and i cant remember them ( ´∀｀)
I see. I’m largely familiar with the term in Tekken where at least from what I’ve experienced, it’s mainly used in the scenario of “opponent does something, you defend, you do one option which beats every mixup the opponent can do”. This mainly seemed like a more streamlined version of that which is why I ended up going for the term. I see that the term is used differently for 2D fighters and your explanation does match up how I’ve heard the term used in Street Fighter now that I think about it.
I always think Yoshi is underrated in this game
Yoshi definitely had room to be optimised for sure. He definitely had rather severe weaknesses but with maximum optimisation, I could see him being a bit higher on the tier list at least.
@@bigbangbot-SuperSqank good thing Im using a Buffed Yoshi mod since I Play on Dolphin Emulator
I'd love an analysis on vanilla smash4 Marcina cause those characters were TRAGIC
It could definitely happen at some point down the road.
Who’s fuckass mii is this I’m laughing my ass off
Marth is the better Fire Emblem character, but at least Ike’s jab is better 🥲
i love brawl so much, such a janky game. i think there's a lot of beauty in a game as utterly imbalanced as this one lol
Indeed.
Brawl simultaneously having the worst and best moves in the series
Even in _Ultimate,_ Marth's jab is better than it is in _Brawl._ And Marth himself isn't even a good character in _Ultimate_ unlike in _Brawl._
nobody fucking cares
Smash 4 players care 😂