Oneness Pentecostals & Church History - Part I
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- Опубліковано 4 вер 2024
- UPCI General Superintendent Dr. David K. Bernard and Urshan Graduate School of Theology Professor Dr. David Norris discuss the development of the doctrine of the Trinity in church history.
For more information on this topic, see Dr. David K. Bernard's book "Oneness and Trinity: A.D. 100-300," available at pentecostalpub....
So thankful for integral apostolic scholarly leaders who are not afraid to grapple with all of the evidence that is laid before us with the development of doctrine in history.
We love the brethren. The many opportunities of fellowship at general conference, state gatherings, pastor & leadership conferences, church growth & development; ministerial training etc. It is awsome!!!
The fellowship is not perfect. But it is highly blessed & seeks the greater good for God's people of all racial & social groups. God bless Bro. Bernard & the Apostolic fellowship worldwide.
When and where do you all hold your general conference? I live in Tampa Florida and I have a ton of questions about Oneness theology. I grew up in a Oneness Pentecostal Church and I just have a lot of questions.
AWESOME, I love these type of teaching. Can't wait for part 2.
"The safest thing to do, is ask the question, 'What is it that the apostles believed?', and to believe and practice what they taught"
I present to you, the Didache, dated to the first century AD
"baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"
Greetings! Respectfully, that is not the slam dunk you think it is. Oneness does not deny the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But we believe, as we are adamant the Apostles taught, that in Jesus was all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. In that manner, we baptize in Jesus name, which is the recorded way that they baptized all throughout the book of acts.
So we do baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, that name is Jesus.
While the UPCI rails on Greek Philosophy it embraces its own philosophy of Monism which attributes oneness or singleness to a concept e.g., existence. Various kinds of monism can be distinguished: Priority monism states that all existing things go back to a source that is distinct from them; e.g., in Neoplatonism everything is derived from The One. Monism itself is derived for Greek philosophy. So, the UPCI which rails against Greek philosophy actually uses it.
Elaborate more please. Thanks.
Incorrect, unfortunately. There are many philosophies that can be mixed with the Bible. Nevertheless, the Bible clearly states the Oneness of God. While some philosophy may be congruent with the Bible, it does not make it the foundation of our belief. The Bible is
@@micahsanzo6245 all Trinitarians believe there is one God. As we look at church history we see who put the scripture together as 39 in OT and 27 in NT and it wasn’t oneness Pentecostals or modalists. It was Trinitarians. Modalism and the Oneness as well as most theology cannot be separate from philosophy. Philosophy is a preamble in that it prepares people for understanding the Faith. It is a tool in that it is used as an instrument to better understand the Faith. It is a bridge in that it provides common principles where believers and nonbelievers can meet.
I’m so thrilled this conversation is happening.
The Truth The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth About The Apostolic Pentecostal Oneness Message
This is an excellent discussion. I think it’s most telling how the early church “fathers” considered modalists “too simple” in their thinking!
“See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.”
Colossians 2:8-9 BSB
Brethren, this is great material.
Amen, God is ONE
Amen 🙏 thank you.
Thank you.
Rev Kaleem Shoukat mall Founder and chairman The New Jerusalem Congregation Islamabad Pakistan.......God Bless You UPC......
Amen.
Already right out of the gate at about 7 minutes in and the theory that the church was Hebraic and once the Apostles died, the Gentiles took over and it went down the pagan drain is historically problematic. That means that the church apostatized within the first generation after the apostles, which means Jesus lied that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. Secondly, all one needs to do is look at the writings of 2nd temple Judaism which spans a period of about 570 BC to 70 AD and it was at least binitarian and in some cases trinitarian. The seeds were there long before the apostles and with the coming of Christ, the establishment of the Church and apostolic writings, Trinitarian theology began to take shape. Thirdly, it took centuries to develop because the church was a persecuted religion early on and even bishops that attended Nicea showed up maimed from persecution. Another reason it took centuries was everytime a heresy like Arianism or Modalism (modern UPC belief) popped up, the church had to call a council and deal with the mounting heresies which took time. What history has shown is you can't stomp out heresy because Jehovah's Witnesses and the UPC promulgate these ancient heresies to this day, but the church came together and said what is orthodox and what isn't. And btw, there were no oneness Pentecostals at any councils.
Here is a quote from the Targum pseudo Jonathan, 2nd temple Judaism writings: "I will set the Shekinah of my glory among you, and My Word shall not abhor you, but the glory of my Shekinah shall dwell among you, and *My Word shall be to you a redeeming God,* and you shall be unto my name a holy people." Notice the one speaking is distinct from His Word but he calls the Word a redeeming God.
The biggest obstacle to oneness Pentecostalism is the bible itself and thats before you look at history.
Praise the
Lord Jesus for what u are trying to do its good too short
Very interesting and clearly explained.
Finally a church history video!! I’ve been wanting one of these for years! Thx!!
The chain of command in a sense the Trinity began to developed Schizophrenia ideas Greek philosophy in second century and third centuries development
The Father is God and the Son is God, but there is only one God being. This is not a family or committee of divine beings-a group cannot say, “There is none like me” (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6; 45:5). God is only one divine being-more than one Person, but only one God. The early Christians did not get this idea from paganism or philosophy-they were led to it by statements in Scripture.
Just as Scripture teaches that Jesus Christ is divine, it also teaches that the Holy Spirit is divine and personal. Whatever the Holy Spirit does, God does. The Holy Spirit, like the Son and the Father, is God-three Persons perfectly united in one God: the Trinity.
Author: Michael Morrison
Does God believe in a trinity also and if so then where does God himself confirms a trinity?
@@wjdyr6261 the scripture.
Amen brother David Barnard
What are the odds that I just did a Bible study last Sunday on John 1
The Apostolic Fathers included:
The Didache which is The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations.
Some think "The teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles (or Nations) by the twelve apostles” may have begun at the the Jerusalem assembly under James the Just around AD 49-50 but finished no later than the end of the 1st century. And according to many it had been considered part of the New Testament, although it was not included.
The point is for historical value it ranks very high concerning what the twelve apostles taught the Gentile believers. The Didache reveals how Jewish Christians saw themselves and how they adapted their practice for Gentile Christians.
So when I hear about all these theories the “oneness” belief drums up using historical data, excluding what scripture actually says I realize they ignore truth.
The Didache reveals what they taught about water baptism which lines up perfectly with what Jesus “commanded”.
It states: [44] Baptism is to be conferred "in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"[28] with triple immersion in "living water".
I conquer with you, pastor. God is one but manifests in different forms. If trinitary says he's three in one. What about God that appears in Moses as the burning fire on the thicket. Was He in another personality, and the One appeared to him (Moses) in the form of cloud. So I don't accept the trinitarial person of God . God is one. He created the world alone. Amen..
Can anyone name any oneness Pentecostal between the 2nd and 19th centuries? I have yet for anyone to meet this challenge.
Was Christmas (Santa, elves, reindeer, christmas tree, lights, etc...) an observance in the early church?
If so, are there scriptures that support the celebration/observance of Christmas?
If not, then why are we as Christians observing it now?
Christmas and Easter were pagan holidays that the catholic church attributed to events in the scriptures to make Christianity more exceptable to the pagans north of Rome in order to bring them into the catholic church; lessen the danger of their invading Rome oin the future, and to add more money to the catholic churches coffers.
The fact that we celebrate them today in America is traditional. We attribute them, especially, to the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus. No one today celebrates them today as the pagan holidays that they originally were. Ultimately God looks at the intentions of our heart in celebrating them not what they originally were.
@@robertnieten7259 Thanks for your response sir.
My follow up question is can we incorporate Santa Clause, Christmas trees, elves, and reindeer decorations into our observance of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ? Is it biblical or lawful to do so?
@@davidd5698 Thanks for your response. Here I believe the Lord looks at the intentions of our hearts again.
Most that believe in Santa Claus reindeer, and such as children and as we are tolerant of our children little flights into fantasy I believe the Lord looks at how happy it makes us when we are children and excuses us. Are they lies? I see them more as harmless fantasies. How much in the mind of children are nothing but the simple fantasies of a child and in fact them making up things in their young minds that are not true ?
What did Paul said, " When we get old we put away childish things." ( 1Cor. 13:11). We must get older first. Now I do believe that there is a point in a child's life that their parents should tell them the truth about Santa, etc.
It's a complicated situation to where you don't want to lie to them and encourage an untrue belief. At the same time you don't want to rob them of a harmless fantasy that is part of being a child
@@davidd5698 I can’t speak for others but I observe Christmas and don’t use those things because that’s not what Christmas is about to me. I do put a tree up and decorate it but I also have other plants in my house as well throughout the year so to me it’s not really any different. I also have three children none of which believe in Santa Claus or Rudolph or anything like that. We know that we celebrate Christmas to celebrate the birth of Christ but we also celebrate him all year long. I do agree that we shouldn’t have things like elves and Santa ect..
@@kristasmith3692 Thanks for your reply and for your honesty.
Coptic Christians who are Orthodox say they believe in a "trinity" but they say they do not believe God to be three persons but rather three manifestations of One God... So not so different than UPCI beliefs if you research what Coptics believe. Look into it... Pretty interesting.
Oneness folks have been gaslit (made to feel stupid, abused) into denying the patently obvious fact that God is one in substance and three in person. Can a oneness advocate write the book of John where the Son shared with the Father in His glory in eternity past (Ch. 17), or the Father sends the Son, or the Father and Son send the Holy Spirit? If God used a oneness person to write the gospel of John, it would have to be written in an entirely different way. Or how about Paul's writings, over and over again using the three in ways that betray a oneness/modalistic understanding (2 Corinthians 13:13 as merely one example)? Listen to God through his Word rather than men. Don't submit to this lie of oneness. God please help these folks.
So who coined the term trinitas which we get trinity from & formulated the original doctrine?
I’m trying to watch the whole thing but curious do they end up admitting that Trinitarians actually founded the UPC denomination.
No I’m not saying the concept or oneness doctrine
But the actual 501C3 organization
THAT IS G.R.E.A.T!
While yes I do believe in the oneness of God and my church use to be part of the UPCI, there’s so much y’all need revelation of, worshiping on Sunday is from Rome, these celebrations, such as Christmas, Easter, all of those are from ROME. Open your eyes and call out for the TRUTH.
Agree. UPCI practicing Roman Catholic traditions is the second beast manipulating ppl to worship the first beast.
So they didn't believe that God manifested in the flesh
Yes. God the Father became his own Son. Scripture states plainly that there's only one God and his name is Jesus
@Dustin Neely thanks for your opinion 👍. According to God & scripture he's a numerically 1 person which means God the Father was in Christ.
This was so heretical. These people are so astoundingly ignorant and arrogant at the same time.
This is not heretical, this is Biblical
Jesus Christ self identifies as the Father (John 14:9) The Son (John 10:36) The Holy Ghost (John 14:16-18)
The Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ in Spiritual regeneration (Romans 8:9-10, 2Corinthians 3:17, Galatians 2:20, Colossians 1:27) thus the Almighty True and Living God Jesus Christ (Revelation 1:8)
Father describes Jesus Christ in creation (John 1:10) Son describes Jesus Christ in redemption (Matthew 1:21) Holy Ghost describes Jesus Christ in regeneration (Romans 8:9-10, 2Corinthians 3:17, Galatians 2:20)
Jesus is God the Father (Isaiah 9:6, Isaiah 49:16, Zechariah 12:10, Malachi 2:10, John 14:9, Acts 1:7, Ephesians 1:3, Ephesians 1:17) and many others
I’m so excited to hear these 1 and 2.
💯. It actually turns my stomach to hear their blatant historic revisionism.
repent
Very dangerous cult
Amen