I assume it is a representation of how many people are actually interested in what tyre is on their car, blissfully ignorant of the fact that it is the one thing keeping them on the straight and narrow! (Or curvy and narrow ☺️)
i use the 4s and its amazing even in cold temps in the uk it was highly impressive even in the snow well i say snow 2 cm of it but still it worked and i was imppressed.
@@sjm.photos perhaps you can help me understand why in the UK people drive around with summer tyres year round. I live in scotland and the vast majority of cars are on (cheap) summer tyres when in fact we only get a few weeks of warm weather per year. all seasons would be perfect for the climate, which hardly exceeds 20 deg. every time it snowed in the past weeks cars got stuck/kerbed/crashed. I think the M9 was jammed because cars could find grip. that and lots of new car customers spec all wheel drive systems on their cars thinking it is going to be this magic physics defeating mechanical wonder. If any summer tyre works on the snow it means you are driving slowly and a on flat straight road. try to pull this on any twisty hilly road and we will have another scenario on our hands
@@jacopo952 i live in the south east hense why i drive on summer high performance tyres which are not cheap but amazing it snows maybe a few days a year and i mean if there is more than 80mm of snow i dont go anywhere anyway as thats how low my car is lol. if i lived up north where it snowed more i would probably go for an all season tyre but down here its not cold so i want the best handling for dry and wet conditions for 98% of the time
4s and Cup 2 can be very grippy in the dry and unless the car is very powerful and you have a lot of space it can be difficult to learn oversteer. Running cup 2 in the wet is a great way to learn oversteer the compound doesn't get activated and doesn't wear as bad as one would think.
God this gen of car does not get prettier, every time I see one it looks worse & worse, headlights misproportioned, monster grille, and fake engine noise lol As I said last week, you're churning these vids out now and I am here to watch every single one :D
When I helped a friend looking for the Cup 2s we didnt get the size but the guys at Porsche recommended the 4s and they were indeed correct. They are very close.
Such a great video, deserves more views ! Can't believe how close they are in the dry although they understandably won't keep this performance as long as the cup2 on a track session.
Thanks Jon for another interesting and excellent review. I have just replaced the Michelin PS4S tires on my 370Z sport coupe with a set of Michelin PS Cup 2 (240) tires in the OEM fitment, based in large measure on your review of the tire. It hasn't disappointed me, with the improved steering response and feel being less vague and more precise than the PS4S. Comfort and noise, surprisingly, are nearly as good as with the 4S. The main drawback is the wet road performance which I haven't had time to check but that is not a big deal to me. The 4S on my car got to 35K miles, with the rear wheels needing more negative camber, with no rotations and still had a little tread left but I know these won't go as far, about 28K I'm estimating. The higher cost and shorter tread life are acceptable tradeoffs to me for the better handling this tire affords. I had some intake, exhaust mods and a dyno tune done on the car and now estimate that I'm probably pushing about 380 peak hp at the crank. With the increased power, I wanted a tire that I thought would be a good match for a lightweight car with this kind of power; I feel that this tire is going to be the tire for this car. My feeling is that Michelin has produced a good tire to fill the gap between the PS4S and the PSC2R. Based on my cost per mile to operate either of these tires, I don't see these tires as being prohibitively expensive when matched to a car that can utilize their capabilities. Next on the agenda is reduction of unsprung and rotational mass in the suspension.
Hell nah 😂 the cup 2 are horrible in the rain. You can’t compare this wet road to when it’s pouring rain. The pilot sport 4s way more Grip in the rain’ and great in summer
@@oscarclavijo3060 I had the PS4S and they were very good in the rain. The Cup 2s that I now have are not as grippy in the wet but are acceptable if I brake and corner more carefully. Have you even owned a set of Cup 2s? You don't sound like a person who could afford to buy a set for his car, nor do you seem like a person who could afford to buy the kind of car that Cup2s would be suitable for.
Please do a rant video on people that use winter tyres in the summer ! I'm a massive fan of your work sir ! I own a 215 hp RCZ and i'm about to buy some Michelin PS4 thanks to your channel. Such a pleasure to whatch this channel ! I check your channel out every 2 or 3 days to see if i haven't miss a new realease.
Ripper comparison as always. Definitely deserving of more subs than this channel has so far. Should sort out a collab video with CarWow, do something like a drag race comparison showing the importance of having the right tyre. Also, Michelin, release these 4S's in more sizes. I need 235/35R19's for the vRS and I need them pronto!
I’ve had both tyres as you said easy on the throttle you can live with the ps4 in the wet no worries the cup 2’s wow insaneI love them on my series 1m.
I noticed the under-steer in warm to hot conditions with the Pilot Sport Cup 2, too - and that was in my Golf R all-wheel-drive. I still love the Cup Sport 2 tyres.
Thanks for making my best break of the day 🙂. Understeer and only 7/10th of a second gap on a one minute lap...just add the price difference and the choice is definitely a no brainer thanks to your review! It would be good such video pushes BMW to release PS4S* for 19" wheels...
I got them on my Mercedes 2014 E400 sedan, 285 on the back and 255 mo1 on the front, compared to the Pzeros the limit of grip in the wet, dry, and cold so far is significantly more
@@youridv I know he did. I meant the other way around. Get both PS4S variants on something other than the BMW that the "star-marked" was designed for. And see whether it makes sense for non-BMW owners to buy it. In line with the original poster's comment
Nice! Well...a quality for a TD tyre is also how it handle 20min without overheating, and how it handles termal cycles, not only one single lap comparison. Hard to show in a video!
Have now the cup 2 connect in 205 and 255 / 17 on my Porsche 964 and have the same feeling that the front axle reaction is a bit late even compared to the former PS2. The final grip is good but the reaction feels like if the 7" wheel were to small. You do a great job with the reviews! PS : Great Bodywork, but legs are like tyres, dont forget them there important too.
Thank's for the review. Just got a set of Cup 2 for my CL65 sitting in my office and waiting for the 4S which i am currently driving to get toasted. With the 4S I have a bit too much understeer which I don't like. Let's see what happened after the change. Yes, I know the V12TT is heavy on the front and the V8 version is better balanced , but is not a V12 ! I guess you got my point.
Geat video but for the dry test it would be great to see how both hold up after 5+ laps. That's the minimum I want to drive when I first head out for a "heat".
I love your videos and I love your level of detail. What I will never love is that HIDEOUS BMW front grille, seriously, they have to fire whoever is designing the modern front ends. The rest of the car is fine.
I just changed tyres on my M135i from MPSS to the new Bridgestones S007A. In my opinion the Bridgestone are similar to MPSS but a bit better gripping with firmer sidewalls. Both of the sets were non run flats. I tried getting Pilot 4S but Australia doesn’t sell them in my size
Great vid. After my Mazda 6 sportbreak drama story I have bought a new car with more poweeerrr... Have to save some money for new rims that will fit the pilot sport 4 or 4S. I'ts not possible to drive hard here in the Netherlands... Soooo maybe about that time there is a 5(s) I have now a Seat Exeo St 2.0 ti
How good would this be if the Track Connect was being used and we knew temperature was right in the steer tyres? I've always found the Michelins critical to get temperature in the front tyres to ensure neutral handling. Still the best tyre channel on the internet!
I hope I win the tire lottery and my new M3 Comp Xdrive shows up with the PS4S instead of the Pirellis. I have the standard PS4S on my 2016 Chevy SS and they are leagues better than the factory Bridgestones were. More grip and far longer lasting. Seeing how improved the star marked PS4S is for the M3 versus the standard PS4S is really impressive.
Great work once again on providing information, I have recently heard of Zentino tyres apparently they claim to be a high performance budget tyre, could you do a review/ comparison with michelin equivalent please. Regards Steve
1 track day as Intermediate on a Porsche TTS, 4 high speed 20 minute sessions. my 4S's look trashed and depth is more then half life already. The 4s heats up quick. I started at 33psi and it got into the 47-48 psi range. Might ask others about the proper operating temp on the track, my ribs looks trashed. The traction was really good though. Was able to brake a lot later then the others on Cup 2's and we great before they heat up to high on the PSI. The spirit driving experience was amazing on these, I just would get for the track. I will probably get a another set of 4s tires, but put them on my street wheels, and run different tires for track going forward. Just can't find a do it all tire yet.
As an instructor over across the pond the track day word in the paddock is that the 4S suck, they get greasy quick and are dangerous once they give up. But it's generally hotter here. Michelin are not making normal "street" tires that hold up like back in the day when Pole Positions and PS2 were all the rage and well liked by most. There are alot better tires for track days than the 4S
This is great info. Wish someone would do something like this with a 911. Non OE 4S vs Cup 2. I’ve considered Cup 2 and everytime I end up needing new road tires, I don’t end up doing it.
Seeing that the track tire is so slow on wet, it would be fun to compare the wet time to a more normal tyre, for instance Pilot 2 Cup, vs Primacy, vs Enery saver on the wet, would be interesting....
What would happen if you fit a mix of these two tires (PS4S in the back and SC2 in the front) for a staggered setup on something like a BMW M5? Any benefits to that? Thank you and love the channel! 🤩
What maybe should also be pointed out is that if u go for a trackday its not only the 1sec in a single dry round. Im almost certain that u do alot of rounds on a trackday and the cup tyre will last alot longer until its getting to hot and lose the grip. Especialy with a heavy car like the M3/M4 the difference in time will grow fast after a few rounds.
Thanks! Would be nice to see and hear your thoughts on how the tires wore through your testing. If one tire wore better than the other, it might be worth the price differences for those who aren't looking to set hero lap records. Always appreciate your work.
@@tyrereviews Ah, well you have so many competing priorities and needs for filming that it's great you can accomplish what you have already. Will have to use my own wallet for some of that testing in the future. haha.
I feel like this review was damn near made for me lol. My 2016 Focus RS came with the sport cup 2, and when they wore out I replaced them with the 4s. Since then I've been wondering what kind of performance I'm giving up, and considering whether I should switch back again later. From what I've gathered here, since I don't actually track my car and it does rain fairly often here, I'm content with the 4s. Thanks!
This is a late response but do you track or autocross the RS at all? Asking as a ST owner/ future RS owner looking for better tires for autocross/ road course driving.
I have done a few tracks days on the michelin pilot sport 4s but mainly have the goodyear supercar 3r tires for track day on my camaro zl1 1lE. I found that the 4s can be run hard the whole session and be consistent the whole time and only require 1 lap to get warmed up. The 3r you have to manage the tires allot more.... But there is a huge difference in lap times. 4s I was consistently around 1:30 and the 3r I was getting about 1:26:5. This is a very short 2.7km track with lots of turns.
@@tyrereviews I'm also thinking it would be a good compromise with the 3. I have 2 sets of rims so maybe I could use the 3r for when I know it's not going to rain and the 3 for when there is a good chance of rain and also use the 3 for daily driving. As far as street driving how do you find the 3 compared to the 4s?
@@tyrereviews knowing Michelin, they'll make a 4+ that'll put the normal pilot sport 4 to shame. What is it with Michelin making tires punch above their weight class? 😁
Very surprising, the only thing to add is that Michelin themselves recommend a minimum of -2 camber for the Cup2 tyres. The G80 certainly isn’t that in stock form
Bro, your videos are exactly what I’m looking for! My G80 came with the PS4s stars, luckily not the Pirelli’s. I’m planning on my next set of tires and considering the Cup 2/R. I don’t track my car but I live in a climate where it only rains a couple weeks per year. Wondering how the Cup 2 & Cup 2 R’s work in the rain.
Great test video as always. Can you estimate what influence a changed setup for the C2C would have in this case (some more camber etc.) Is the C2C ideal for factory setup, or would it have a big(ger) benifit from a changed setup? As you know most semis like/need more camber to perform it best. What is you opinion? Thanks. ☺👍
Thanks for the content. Do you think the difference would be as close of the course was a short, tighter dry course? Would higher track Temps make more or less difference. Thanks. I'm trying to make a decision on 4s again or Cup 2.
Great video, as always. Question, you previously mentioned the Eagle F1 Supercar 3 as a perfect "in-between" tyre. How does that compare to these two and what would your choice be now, after reviewing the BMW-rated / star-marked PS4S?
@@tyrereviews Totally understand, and really appreciate your opinion on it. I mean there's nobody else on the internet who I can ask, so even a subjective thought from you is hugely valuable, thank you.
On the basis that, sometimes we start a journey when it's dry and then enter a rain shower, I'd like to see what difference there is between cold and warm tyres
This was an excellent review, I’m looking at getting the pilot sports 4s for my M4 Competition but when I speak to the tyre shops they say that there is no difference between the star and non star marked tyres. I’m weary about spending money on them as I would rather have the star marked tyres. Do you have a specific part number or barcode/QR code for these tyres?
I really don't rate the 4S like most people do, I've used them in all conditions on road, I've used them on track and they didn't impress me at all. The Goodyears I personally rate higher, and they don't split or break the sidewalls from a small pothole either (like the 4S does)
@@tyrereviews oh yes I’m in méxico, so it does get pretty hot, and it’s mostly dry Thanks!!! I was thinking about the Supercar 3 too, because of your other video regarding treadwear
Can you do a "Wet" specific episode? I don't think you've specifically focused on "Wet" & "Aquaplaning" Still waiting to see if you can get your hands on BFGoodrich G-Force Comp 2.
Great video, as always!!! One question: at what pressure do you drive 4S tires when they are warm? I have very big problems with 4S tires on the track, on my Focus RS, mk3, awd, 1590 kg. The sidewall of the tire is torn as is the outer edge of the tire. The standard tire pressure is 2.8 / 2.6 bar warm (forward / backward)
Hi, great in depth videos. I have a BMW 1m coupe as a road car & need to replace the rears. Currently has Toyo Proxos T1 Sport all round. If I go for a different brand tyre on the rear, can this upset things or should I get two more Toyo's until I need all 4, then change brand? Thanks
@@tyrereviews thank you for the reply. Are the Toyo's not that good then? I was planning on a budget of no more than £150 per tyre, ruling out the UUHP tyres. How does the Maxxis Victra Sport (wife has on her TT) stack up with Toyo's? Suppose I should pose the question, with this budget, what would you put on the rear to match the Toyo's (still 6mm tread left) on the front? Thank you for your time.
@@stevesas632 the newer Maxxis tyres are pretty good, but the trade off is they seem to wear a lttle quicker. Go check out the test results on www.tyrereviews.com you'll see what I mean about the Toyos
Same here...summer will be over before I get my set. They are in stock for the front but not the rear. Was thinking of putting the Cup 2 Connect on the rear and the 4S on the front. Decisions decisions....
@@embfly You can’t mix the two compounds like that!!! Either 4s or Cup 2’s, not a mixture of the two. Would be super dangerous and certainly void your car insurance
Insurance would be fine, but it's not ideal, especially in the wet! I've heard the * Marked Pirellis are pretty good this time too, if the wait gets too long
It's been great video with surprisingly huge gap between those two in the wet and unbelievably negligible gap in the dry. However, I'm wondering what would be track times, especially in wet, if driven against regular Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S?
@@tyrereviews Thanks so much, somehow I missed that one. I just watched it now and it's great and very detailed review! Thank you for doing such great job for all of us enthusiasts who thanks to you can really pick up right tyres knowing what we can expect from them.
![This Is Why You Should Fit OE Tires To Your Car! [Michelin Pilot Sport 4S vs 4S*]](/img/n.gif)
When you watch a tyre test on tyres that aren't available for your vehicle - you know its cos you love this channel!
100 % me
Which vehicle? 😕
The PS4S is available for my car, GR Yaris CP (and indeed they were factory-fit), but they’re hard to get hold of the the uk now!
This channel needs more subs, it's criminal how underrated it is.
thank you :)
Bang on! I always use this to determine what new tyre to fit... very accurate and objective and full of useful info. Highly recommendable!
I assume it is a representation of how many people are actually interested in what tyre is on their car, blissfully ignorant of the fact that it is the one thing keeping them on the straight and narrow! (Or curvy and narrow ☺️)
You got that right.
Wonder the differences on road daily… how hard of cup2?
Gotta appreciate the effort this man puts into these. Tires are the most important part of your car, thank you!!
Driving my 2t car on Michelin 4S for about 1.5year and after watching this video, I would no longer consider to swap to CUP2. Thanks 👏👍😉
I went for the Cup 2 Connects from your previous reviews & I love them, dry & warm they are brilliant.
Glad you like them! Would be great to see a review on www.tyrereviews.com sometime :)
On what car mate?
Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S* seems to be a sporty tire for all kinds of summer weather.
i use the 4s and its amazing even in cold temps in the uk it was highly impressive even in the snow well i say snow 2 cm of it but still it worked and i was imppressed.
@@sjm.photos likewise on my RS3 also held up well on a hot September & wet November trackday.
Great mileage to boot.
@@sjm.photos perhaps you can help me understand why in the UK people drive around with summer tyres year round. I live in scotland and the vast majority of cars are on (cheap) summer tyres when in fact we only get a few weeks of warm weather per year. all seasons would be perfect for the climate, which hardly exceeds 20 deg. every time it snowed in the past weeks cars got stuck/kerbed/crashed. I think the M9 was jammed because cars could find grip. that and lots of new car customers spec all wheel drive systems on their cars thinking it is going to be this magic physics defeating mechanical wonder. If any summer tyre works on the snow it means you are driving slowly and a on flat straight road. try to pull this on any twisty hilly road and we will have another scenario on our hands
@@jacopo952 i live in the south east hense why i drive on summer high performance tyres which are not cheap but amazing it snows maybe a few days a year and i mean if there is more than 80mm of snow i dont go anywhere anyway as thats how low my car is lol. if i lived up north where it snowed more i would probably go for an all season tyre but down here its not cold so i want the best handling for dry and wet conditions for 98% of the time
4s and Cup 2 can be very grippy in the dry and unless the car is very powerful and you have a lot of space it can be difficult to learn oversteer. Running cup 2 in the wet is a great way to learn oversteer the compound doesn't get activated and doesn't wear as bad as one would think.
God this gen of car does not get prettier, every time I see one it looks worse & worse, headlights misproportioned, monster grille, and fake engine noise lol
As I said last week, you're churning these vids out now and I am here to watch every single one :D
When I helped a friend looking for the Cup 2s we didnt get the size but the guys at Porsche recommended the 4s and they were indeed correct. They are very close.
Such a great video, deserves more views ! Can't believe how close they are in the dry although they understandably won't keep this performance as long as the cup2 on a track session.
Couldn't agree more!
No but they'll last a LOT longer.
@@SteveBrueck I’ve heard that. How long do they last on average?
@@PacoMonajAgro Both of our cars are on two year old PS4S's. I'll have to go back and look at the mileage when I put them on.
I'm rather late to the tyre reviews party but I'm extremely glad I stumbled across it anyway. Brilliant channel, thank you for all your hard work.
Thanks Jon for another interesting and excellent review.
I have just replaced the Michelin PS4S tires on my 370Z sport coupe with a set of Michelin PS Cup 2 (240) tires in the OEM fitment, based in large measure on your review of the tire. It hasn't disappointed me, with the improved steering response and feel being less vague and more precise than the PS4S. Comfort and noise, surprisingly, are nearly as good as with the 4S. The main drawback is the wet road performance which I haven't had time to check but that is not a big deal to me. The 4S on my car got to 35K miles, with the rear wheels needing more negative camber, with no rotations and still had a little tread left but I know these won't go as far, about 28K I'm estimating. The higher cost and shorter tread life are acceptable tradeoffs to me for the better handling this tire affords.
I had some intake, exhaust mods and a dyno tune done on the car and now estimate that I'm probably pushing about 380 peak hp at the crank. With the increased power, I wanted a tire that I thought would be a good match for a lightweight car with this kind of power; I feel that this tire is going to be the tire for this car. My feeling is that Michelin has produced a good tire to fill the gap between the PS4S and the PSC2R. Based on my cost per mile to operate either of these tires, I don't see these tires as being prohibitively expensive when matched to a car that can utilize their capabilities.
Next on the agenda is reduction of unsprung and rotational mass in the suspension.
Hell nah 😂 the cup 2 are horrible in the rain. You can’t compare this wet road to when it’s pouring rain. The pilot sport 4s way more
Grip in the rain’ and great in summer
@@oscarclavijo3060 I had the PS4S and they were very good in the rain. The Cup 2s that I now have are not as grippy in the wet but are acceptable if I brake and corner more carefully. Have you even owned a set of Cup 2s? You don't sound like a person who could afford to buy a set for his car, nor do you seem like a person who could afford to buy the kind of car that Cup2s would be suitable for.
Please do a rant video on people that use winter tyres in the summer !
I'm a massive fan of your work sir !
I own a 215 hp RCZ and i'm about to buy some Michelin PS4 thanks to your channel.
Such a pleasure to whatch this channel !
I check your channel out every 2 or 3 days to see if i haven't miss a new realease.
Thank you another very interesting test.
The 4S is a great, impressive performance for a road tyre.
Getting a rear set of 4S in the Spring on my 992 so this was helpful, thank you!
Ripper comparison as always. Definitely deserving of more subs than this channel has so far.
Should sort out a collab video with CarWow, do something like a drag race comparison showing the importance of having the right tyre.
Also, Michelin, release these 4S's in more sizes. I need 235/35R19's for the vRS and I need them pronto!
I’ve had both tyres as you said easy on the throttle you can live with the ps4 in the wet no worries the cup 2’s wow insaneI love them on my series 1m.
Awesome work Jonathan. Also perfect timing! The 4s it is then for me as it's a road car still
Good choice!
I noticed the under-steer in warm to hot conditions with the Pilot Sport Cup 2, too - and that was in my Golf R all-wheel-drive. I still love the Cup Sport 2 tyres.
4S for me it is then! Thanks for the thorough review.
Thanks for making my best break of the day 🙂.
Understeer and only 7/10th of a second gap on a one minute lap...just add the price difference and the choice is definitely a no brainer thanks to your review!
It would be good such video pushes BMW to release PS4S* for 19" wheels...
Sadly the sizes are driven by OEM, but the PS5S should be rather special :)
@@tyrereviews Since you are so involved in the tyre industry, do you have any idea of when we might expect to see/hear anything new about the ps5s?
@@twinkmaster2 Not 2021 sadly
Awesome test again.
So… let’s see that RE71RS and A052 Vs. the Cup 2 on an M2 !!
There are barely any reviews on the RE71RS! Need a proper one!
4S is an amazing tyre. I’m getting these for my 2015 BMW 750Lxi👍💪
I got them on my Mercedes 2014 E400 sedan, 285 on the back and 255 mo1 on the front, compared to the Pzeros the limit of grip in the wet, dry, and cold so far is significantly more
I trust Jonathan to be clockwork accurate in his reviews. 4s is my tire of choice for both my cars.
💪 🔥
I need to feel the cup 2s now for myself
One of the best channels on UA-cam!
Thank you :D
The 4s is king in my opinion. Hopefully the s5 is even better
thank you so much for this video and others video such as pilot sport 4 vs 4s vs cup 2 because it helped me a lot with choose of tires for my car!
Glad it helped
Well done as always Jonathan, keep it up.
Thank you :)
Superb review man !! Your vids gets better every time, keep it up !!
Glad you like them!
Since the star-marked is so superior to aftermarket, would you recommend fitting them to non BMWs?
if it fits then do it, I've got the next best thing on my car which is the mo1 ps4s's
This really flips my lid with with the "star" tyres / tires.
And would really like to have a test with these vs. the "normal" ones.
@@Wydarr He's done that already...
@@Wydarr He did that already. This video is a follow up to that video in a way.
@@youridv I know he did.
I meant the other way around.
Get both PS4S variants on something other than the BMW that the "star-marked" was designed for.
And see whether it makes sense for non-BMW owners to buy it.
In line with the original poster's comment
Nice!
Well...a quality for a TD tyre is also how it handle 20min without overheating, and how it handles termal cycles, not only one single lap comparison. Hard to show in a video!
Good point, I sadly ran out of time!
Let's goooooooo. Finally a Cup 2 connect review. Thanks my dude
Hope you enjoy!
SO is it a cup 2 connect, or cup2 star mark. I am confused now!
PS 4s* is totally the best. Top job as usual!
Have now the cup 2 connect in 205 and 255 / 17 on my Porsche 964 and have the same feeling that the front axle reaction is a bit late even compared to the former PS2. The final grip is good but the reaction feels like if the 7" wheel were to small. You do a great job with the reviews! PS : Great Bodywork, but legs are like tyres, dont forget them there important too.
Subtle insult, I like it
@@tyrereviews😂😂😂buen sentido del humor a una crítica constructiva😂😂😂
Thank's for the review. Just got a set of Cup 2 for my CL65 sitting in my office and waiting for the 4S which i am currently driving to get toasted. With the 4S I have a bit too much understeer which I don't like. Let's see what happened after the change. Yes, I know the V12TT is heavy on the front and the V8 version is better balanced , but is not a V12 ! I guess you got my point.
They’re almost all wet track days in Seattle. Got 4K slippery miles out of my Cup 2’s. Moved to the 4S and am happier. Not going back.
My god that’s some elegant driving
Put the 4S * on my TTRS and the grip is just incredible compare to the Audi oem tyres. I'll try CUP2 to compare later hope they are better on dry road
Geat video but for the dry test it would be great to see how both hold up after 5+ laps. That's the minimum I want to drive when I first head out for a "heat".
For sure, if I had more time I would have
I love your videos and I love your level of detail. What I will never love is that HIDEOUS BMW front grille, seriously, they have to fire whoever is designing the modern front ends. The rest of the car is fine.
It's better in the flesh
Aftermarket already has a new front end bumper and grill on offer.
I just changed tyres on my M135i from MPSS to the new Bridgestones S007A. In my opinion the Bridgestone are similar to MPSS but a bit better gripping with firmer sidewalls. Both of the sets were non run flats. I tried getting Pilot 4S but Australia doesn’t sell them in my size
@J B my MPSS were not star marked just generic
Great vid. After my Mazda 6 sportbreak drama story I have bought a new car with more poweeerrr... Have to save some money for new rims that will fit the pilot sport 4 or 4S. I'ts not possible to drive hard here in the Netherlands... Soooo maybe about that time there is a 5(s) I have now a Seat Exeo St 2.0 ti
How good would this be if the Track Connect was being used and we knew temperature was right in the steer tyres? I've always found the Michelins critical to get temperature in the front tyres to ensure neutral handling. Still the best tyre channel on the internet!
Something for another video :)
I hope I win the tire lottery and my new M3 Comp Xdrive shows up with the PS4S instead of the Pirellis. I have the standard PS4S on my 2016 Chevy SS and they are leagues better than the factory Bridgestones were. More grip and far longer lasting. Seeing how improved the star marked PS4S is for the M3 versus the standard PS4S is really impressive.
Great work once again on providing information, I have recently heard of Zentino tyres apparently they claim to be a high performance budget tyre, could you do a review/ comparison with michelin equivalent please.
Regards
Steve
4s for the road. Cup2 for the track. Cup2 never overheated for me.
Great video! Please test aftermarket 4S, vs Cup2 vs Cup2 Connect!! :)
Ive just changed from the ps4s to cup2 connects 💥🤞
How you finding it? Would be great to see a review on www.tyrereviews.com sometime :)
1 track day as Intermediate on a Porsche TTS, 4 high speed 20 minute sessions. my 4S's look trashed and depth is more then half life already. The 4s heats up quick. I started at 33psi and it got into the 47-48 psi range. Might ask others about the proper operating temp on the track, my ribs looks trashed. The traction was really good though. Was able to brake a lot later then the others on Cup 2's and we great before they heat up to high on the PSI. The spirit driving experience was amazing on these, I just would get for the track. I will probably get a another set of 4s tires, but put them on my street wheels, and run different tires for track going forward. Just can't find a do it all tire yet.
As middle earth found out, one ring to do it all is difficult
I've got fronts 235 35 19 DT1 rear 265 30 19. Star marked not available.. plenty good for daily driving
The aftermarket version is still great :)
As an instructor over across the pond the track day word in the paddock is that the 4S suck, they get greasy quick and are dangerous once they give up. But it's generally hotter here. Michelin are not making normal "street" tires that hold up like back in the day when Pole Positions and PS2 were all the rage and well liked by most. There are alot better tires for track days than the 4S
This is great info. Wish someone would do something like this with a 911. Non OE 4S vs Cup 2. I’ve considered Cup 2 and everytime I end up needing new road tires, I don’t end up doing it.
It's on the list :)
Seeing that the track tire is so slow on wet, it would be fun to compare the wet time to a more normal tyre, for instance Pilot 2 Cup, vs Primacy, vs Enery saver on the wet, would be interesting....
Similar results, the track tyre would be monstered!
What would happen if you fit a mix of these two tires (PS4S in the back and SC2 in the front) for a staggered setup on something like a BMW M5? Any benefits to that? Thank you and love the channel! 🤩
That track is absolutely beautiful
What maybe should also be pointed out is that if u go for a trackday its not only the 1sec in a single dry round. Im almost certain that u do alot of rounds on a trackday and the cup tyre will last alot longer until its getting to hot and lose the grip. Especialy with a heavy car like the M3/M4 the difference in time will grow fast after a few rounds.
That was mentioned aat the end :)
Thank You for this video, it'll help me with my build 👌🏽🥂
Would love to have seen if the app could have helped you dial in the C2C and perhaps see an improvement in your time.
Thanks for a terrific channel!
:D
I got a video idea! Would be interesting to see how does a winter tire work on gravel surfaces against summer and gravel tires.
We need a track day special, Cup2, A052, AD09, Re71RS, CRS 🙏
Thanks! Would be nice to see and hear your thoughts on how the tires wore through your testing. If one tire wore better than the other, it might be worth the price differences for those who aren't looking to set hero lap records. Always appreciate your work.
I didn't get time to do this sadly :(
@@tyrereviews Ah, well you have so many competing priorities and needs for filming that it's great you can accomplish what you have already. Will have to use my own wallet for some of that testing in the future. haha.
I’d love to see a ps4s vs pilot super sport vs cup 2 240 comparison. Thanks for what you do!
4S is so much superior, I wouldn't even consider the Super Sport.
I love the Michelin’s on our new auto Bahn here in nsw
How do the bridgestone potenza sports compare to the star marked 4s.
My GT4 had factory Cup 2, for all weather types they are not great, so changed them out for PS4S N-rated and they feel very similar..
Ooo good info :)
I feel like this review was damn near made for me lol. My 2016 Focus RS came with the sport cup 2, and when they wore out I replaced them with the 4s. Since then I've been wondering what kind of performance I'm giving up, and considering whether I should switch back again later. From what I've gathered here, since I don't actually track my car and it does rain fairly often here, I'm content with the 4s. Thanks!
Glad you like them :)
This is a late response but do you track or autocross the RS at all? Asking as a ST owner/ future RS owner looking for better tires for autocross/ road course driving.
Already had them, best tire ever. Now I have pzero.
I have done a few tracks days on the michelin pilot sport 4s but mainly have the goodyear supercar 3r tires for track day on my camaro zl1 1lE. I found that the 4s can be run hard the whole session and be consistent the whole time and only require 1 lap to get warmed up. The 3r you have to manage the tires allot more.... But there is a huge difference in lap times. 4s I was consistently around 1:30 and the 3r I was getting about 1:26:5. This is a very short 2.7km track with lots of turns.
Maybe the 3 would be a happy medium?!
@@tyrereviews I'm also thinking it would be a good compromise with the 3. I have 2 sets of rims so maybe I could use the 3r for when I know it's not going to rain and the 3 for when there is a good chance of rain and also use the 3 for daily driving. As far as street driving how do you find the 3 compared to the 4s?
@@chrisb236 The tread wear video I shot with the 3 is the only time I've run it, so I've no street experience, sorry!I Hope do soon
And here I am waiting for a pilot sport all season 4s 😁
:D
@@tyrereviews knowing Michelin, they'll make a 4+ that'll put the normal pilot sport 4 to shame.
What is it with Michelin making tires punch above their weight class? 😁
bravo
Very surprising, the only thing to add is that Michelin themselves recommend a minimum of -2 camber for the Cup2 tyres. The G80 certainly isn’t that in stock form
Please test more Yokohama's and Bridgestones
Bro, your videos are exactly what I’m looking for! My G80 came with the PS4s stars, luckily not the Pirelli’s. I’m planning on my next set of tires and considering the Cup 2/R. I don’t track my car but I live in a climate where it only rains a couple weeks per year. Wondering how the Cup 2 & Cup 2 R’s work in the rain.
SoCal?
Great test video as always.
Can you estimate what influence a changed setup for the C2C would have in this case (some more camber etc.) Is the C2C ideal for factory setup, or would it have a big(ger) benifit from a changed setup? As you know most semis like/need more camber to perform it best. What is you opinion? Thanks. ☺👍
A good question, the G80 actually has pretty aggressive camber at the front for a road car, but you're right I'm sure a bit extra would help!
Thanks for the content. Do you think the difference would be as close of the course was a short, tighter dry course? Would higher track Temps make more or less difference. Thanks. I'm trying to make a decision on 4s again or Cup 2.
question is an oe tire model specific or would you be able to put the star marked 4s on lets say an m2c and have similar results?
If you can fit them
@@tyrereviews ok, thank you.
This 4s* in a 215 55 17 for my V6 Accord
Would be an epic summer tire.
Great video, as always.
Question, you previously mentioned the Eagle F1 Supercar 3 as a perfect "in-between" tyre.
How does that compare to these two and what would your choice be now, after reviewing the BMW-rated / star-marked PS4S?
Difficult question. I think the SuperCar 3 will still be more dry focused with sharper handling, but it wouldn't match the 4S* in the wet
@@tyrereviews But better than the Cup 2 in the wet, potentially? So still a trade-off of the two? Thanks, appreciate the reply.
@@ANiMOSiTYZA I've not actually tested that, but I believe so.
@@tyrereviews Totally understand, and really appreciate your opinion on it. I mean there's nobody else on the internet who I can ask, so even a subjective thought from you is hugely valuable, thank you.
Thank You! 🥇👍🇫🇮
Welcome!
On the basis that, sometimes we start a journey when it's dry and then enter a rain shower, I'd like to see what difference there is between cold and warm tyres
Good idea but you'll never get workable temp into a Cup 2 on the road in the wet sadly
This was an excellent review, I’m looking at getting the pilot sports 4s for my M4 Competition but when I speak to the tyre shops they say that there is no difference between the star and non star marked tyres. I’m weary about spending money on them as I would rather have the star marked tyres. Do you have a specific part number or barcode/QR code for these tyres?
I don't, but they should be marked as * so easily identifable by the fiiters
@@tyrereviews when I go to a tyre shop they tell me there is no difference between the ones with the star and the ones without
I really don't rate the 4S like most people do, I've used them in all conditions on road, I've used them on track and they didn't impress me at all. The Goodyears I personally rate higher, and they don't split or break the sidewalls from a small pothole either (like the 4S does)
agreed
Awesome review as always!
Which would you pick for road use on a C63S? Regular 4S or Goodyear Super Car 3?
Ooo, depends where you live. If a hot climate I'd take the supercar three. If somewhere like the UK where it's cold and wet a lot, the 4s
@@tyrereviews oh yes I’m in méxico, so it does get pretty hot, and it’s mostly dry
Thanks!!! I was thinking about the Supercar 3 too, because of your other video regarding treadwear
Fabulous work. Is it possible to do these same test with economy cars lower power cars?
Not this specific test obviously but I have tested a lot with Golfs etc
What’s your opinion on the Michelin 4s vs Goodyear f1 supercar3 that you also seem to love?
Would love to see that comparison one day
I have an 8s ttrs (Haldex system ) with mps4s 255/35/19 thinking about 255/35/19 or 265/30/19 in the cup 2’s . Live in a dry , hot climate
Can you do a "Wet" specific episode? I don't think you've specifically focused on "Wet" & "Aquaplaning"
Still waiting to see if you can get your hands on BFGoodrich G-Force Comp 2.
Just ordered my M3… I really hope it comes with the PS-4S instead of the Pirelli. I’ve heard of some people getting the Pirelli’s.
Lovely
the new Michelin Pilot Sport 5 is available for press at least. Are you planning a video on it soon?
Great review. Maybe I will be changing from the Cup2's for a bit better UK weather capability.
Any plans for Motorbike tyre reviews?
I'd love to do moto stuff but I'm not a good enough rider :(
@@tyrereviews Shame :(
Now I know exactly what to fit on my Kia Ceed. 👍
Kia hahahaha loooooool
YEEEEEET
It would be good to see star marked 4S vs non star marked cup2
Great video, as always!!!
One question: at what pressure do you drive 4S tires when they are warm?
I have very big problems with 4S tires on the track, on my Focus RS, mk3, awd, 1590 kg. The sidewall of the tire is torn as is the outer edge of the tire. The standard tire pressure is 2.8 / 2.6 bar warm (forward / backward)
We ran bmw stock cold, so they would have been high!
Other than tyres, this is where AWD has the huge advantage. Dry or wet.
Agreed, see a few videos ago :)
What do you prefer between good year eagle f1 super sport and pilot sport 4S?
F1 SuperSport
Hi, great in depth videos. I have a BMW 1m coupe as a road car & need to replace the rears. Currently has Toyo Proxos T1 Sport all round. If I go for a different brand tyre on the rear, can this upset things or should I get two more Toyo's until I need all 4, then change brand? Thanks
As long as you're getting a better brand than Toyo it'll be fine, just watch out for a bit more understeer, which is the safest way to be
@@tyrereviews thank you for the reply. Are the Toyo's not that good then? I was planning on a budget of no more than £150 per tyre, ruling out the UUHP tyres.
How does the Maxxis Victra Sport (wife has on her TT) stack up with Toyo's?
Suppose I should pose the question, with this budget, what would you put on the rear to match the Toyo's (still 6mm tread left) on the front?
Thank you for your time.
@@stevesas632 the newer Maxxis tyres are pretty good, but the trade off is they seem to wear a lttle quicker. Go check out the test results on www.tyrereviews.com you'll see what I mean about the Toyos
Why is it impossible to get Michelin 4s at the moment. Cars been stuck in the garage for 3 weeks and looking like it’s going to be a while yet 😢
Same here...summer will be over before I get my set. They are in stock for the front but not the rear. Was thinking of putting the Cup 2 Connect on the rear and the 4S on the front. Decisions decisions....
@@embfly You can’t mix the two compounds like that!!! Either 4s or Cup 2’s, not a mixture of the two. Would be super dangerous and certainly void your car insurance
@@mcfreedom10 Understood, THANK YOU! I will continue to wait.
Insurance would be fine, but it's not ideal, especially in the wet! I've heard the * Marked Pirellis are pretty good this time too, if the wait gets too long
@@tyrereviews Thanks for the clarification AND recommendation.
It's been great video with surprisingly huge gap between those two in the wet and unbelievably negligible gap in the dry.
However, I'm wondering what would be track times, especially in wet, if driven against regular Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S?
See a few videos ago
@@tyrereviews Thanks so much, somehow I missed that one. I just watched it now and it's great and very detailed review! Thank you for doing such great job for all of us enthusiasts who thanks to you can really pick up right tyres knowing what we can expect from them.
like to see the same comparison for the Porsche OEM 4s and cup 2