I like the fact that the Empire broke up into competing factions after Palpatine's death. It kind of mirrors like in real life when Alexander the Great's Empire fell apart after his death into competing successor States. Lends some believability to a fictional universe.
I much prefer the warlords splintering off to the idea that a year after Endor the Empire made peace and then a small group snuck off to form the First Order
Diego Andrade one of the stupidest emo decisions in new Star Wars canon. The Enpire failed to protect me, so let me give the order to do operation Cinder and destroy my own loyal worlds? Is Palpatine 12 years old?
Ankh Morpok Star Wars is full of stupid decisions by characters. Palpatine came back immediately after ROTJ in legends. Instead of contacting thrawn he lets his greatest commander die and then he himself Dies.
@@diegoandrade467 Cue the clown music. In reality though I've never understood what happened to Palpatine and his cognitive abilities. I mean after order 66 he was an idiot of a ruler.
I've always like the Imperial Civil War. To me, it makes more sense than having all the Imperials retreat to the Unknown Region. Also, you can't beat Thrawn.
honestly, this would be the more likely scenario, the empire breaking into smaller regions under warlords, and the new republic probably going extinct, being sandwiched to death between those. nothing besides plot armor assures the small rebel alliance would be able to secure enough parts of the galaxy to the point the surviving ones go outside.
@ Arguably yes, except your neglecting: The new republic controls *coruscant.* If the new republic stayed off in the outer rim until the warlords had mostly killed eachother off, that'd be one thing. But the new republic owned the galaxies most wealthy, prosperous planets. That would paint a big, red target on their back to every single galactic power.
@@pastelnuclear7356 After seeing how things went down in the Legends *and* Disney timelines, you could argue the galaxy might be better off without one huge government and should instead be split off into smaller, more autonomous, powers.
This is an era Legends handled really well. I know, some of it was over the top, but to see the Empire break apart from the infighting while the New Republic was being formed, with all of it's own issues... Just great. Oh, and Pellaeon is the coolest dude around. A man of honor and compassion, that truly learned from history in his later years.
It was done on purpose in the new canon, but I think that whole storyline is a bit far-fetched. Destroying your own empire just to form a new, hidden one is a bit stupid. The Empire was so powerful, to think it could just be destroyed from within in such a short time... Legends felt more like an actual conflict, with many factions, each having their own motives. The new canon seems so small in comparision, everything is focused on a few select characters and groups. I guess it will be be better in a few years.
It wouldn't just be "new canon versus legends." The Legends were always a completely different animal from any of the films. In all the movies, instead of summaries of huge campaigns, we never spend time with more than three planets. In the OT, we never even learn what the capital of the Empire even is.
Chris sonofPear actually the Empire was probably crumbling before Endor when you think about it, Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope made a big deal on how the Senate was needed to hold the Empire together and fear of the Death Star was the only thing Palpatine had to replace it until it was blown up a day later. This means the Empire was unstable for about 4 or 5 years and then lost its ruler and some of the high command.
The determination and savagery of the Imperial Command that survived after the Battle of Endor and splintered into warlords is what made the EU enjoyable. I just love it :]
thats not entirely true the stories are noncanon now but the new canon is definitely drawing inspiration from the EU such as bring back Grand Admiral Thrawn and the fall of Han and Leia's son to the dark side
Knightikhan the new canon is stealing and ruining EU/non-canon material. Such as ruining and disrespecting Thrawn's character and making him a background character that does nothing and has no importance to the story besides being a secondary bad guy to Darth Vader, and ruining Han Solo and Leia's character and by destroying their huge family of Jacen Solo, Jaina Solo and Anakin Solo, and stealing the idea of Han Solo's son being evil from the EU. Disney erased 97% of Star Wars lore and History, while the movies 1-6 are 3%. I hope you enjoyed Last Jedi because there will be a lot more movies like that ;)
I'm glad Pellaeon is on the list, one of my favorite characters, surprised he was at the top spot alongside one of my most despised characters, I thought Thrawn would be more fitting at number one though....
Like her or hate her Dalaa is the only reason pellaeon is on the top spot she was the One that unified the Imperial forces (even though did it in an Evil way)and even though Thrawn was a better tactician he was not a politician and couldn't do what Dalaa and Pellaeon did also even though Thrawn came the closest to defeating the New Republic Dalaa and Pellaeon were the ones that didn't lose signing a treaty that ended Hostilities with the New Republic and made the Empire a Nation in the Eyes of the New Republic Edit shit you made that comment a year ago
Thrawn is one of the best tacticians in the galaxy but hes awful at politics. He can win the war by crushing his opponents but he probably wouldnt be able to sustain his empire like palleon did
To me Thrrawn is the only true Warlord that was actually effective. All these other Warlords did was bombard and try to eviscerate people. Thrawn on the other hand was attempting to get people to surrender without having to fire a single shot. Even though he had to fire a few shots right at the beginning, a good example is when he attacked Coruscant and laid a ton of asteroids and fake asteroids above the planet. After he left he didn't have to ever fire single shot over Coruscant again and let space rocks do the work for him. Regardless of what the other Warlords did in the end thrawn was the king. I'm really glad you were sticking to Legends because they are way better stories and cannon from disney in my opinion can go take a long walk off a short pier into a Rushing River. Keep up the amazing comparisons!
Zsinj used a lot of bombardment and coercion but he did try to coax surrender to get people under his banner. And Thrawn was a "Warlord" because he earned the Warlord title under Palpatine, but technically he led the main Remnant itself.
DIEGhostfish that is true. I think the parts that I don't agree with and the reason I like thrown the most is because these Warlords would just randomly attack places on a planet surface to get a surrender but since thron was a genius and studied his enemies he would basically only have to destroy possibly a couple key locations to break the people's will. So even if the wrong date attack of planetary object it was normally just as minimal damage is possible to get a surrender. The emperor was sure smart putting him in control of the remnant.
Toggle Fire Zsinj would also buy businesses and send his fleets to rescue worlds from pirates. (While also recruiting the pirates if they survived and put up a worthy fight.)
Thrawn's downfall was not knowing about the Noghri finding out their planet was secretly poisoned by the Empire... This led to Rukh turning on Thrawn and assassinating him... Thrawn never saw it coming...
Pelleaon was always my favorite imperial. In the Thrawn Trilogy, he's a likable character, and one of the first cases of an imperial being shown as a good man, who happens to work for the Empire.
After reading Rogue Squadron books and Wraith Squadron? Warlord Zsinj. After reading thrawn trilogy? Thrawn After reading all the post Thrawn info? Pellaeon Honorable mention to Palpatine, as he created the Empire and made certain it stayed with such a strong military specifically so it could counter the Yuuzhan Vong.
Honestly, who can top Thrawn? Dude was the closest to restoring the Empire back to its full potential (minus clone Palpatine) and probably could've help prevent the galaxy being less fucked-up than it originally was in Legends.
Yes, but Thrawn failed to realize one thing. The age of the empire was over. And contrary to the video, the battle thrawn was in during his assasination would have been hard fought either way. This is why i like Pelleaon. He knew when he was beat. And he realized that the empire has lost. Though for a while he chose to beliefe a strong man could turn this arround. But in the end, a person like Thrawn could end the empire in a bang. pelleaon could save it.
Also, Thrawn had one major weakness (This is according to Isard from the book X-Wing: Isard's Revenge.) With Thrawn being a non-human and having to put up with the xenophobic attitude the Empire had, he always had to try to make do with what he had and do it in a way that proved that he was equal or in many cases superior to other humans. Tactically he was brilliant, however he didn't really have the political know how to unite the other warlords to him. If he was successful in bringing all of the Imperial Factions under his banner, the New Republic would have had no chance.
I personal don't like Thrawn as he always wins because he is simply better than everybody else and somehow predicts with 100% accuracy what everybody is going to do.
Pellaeon is my favorite character hands down. I don't even know where to begin with all the great things about him. But also, he has short comings which help make him a more real person. Argh he's just so good!
It's Ya Boi Daniel nah there is a chapter book, like 500 pages, on it. Death Troopers, I hope the virus you said is the same, it makes people turn into zombies with rapid adaptation times.
I totally dig Thrawn and Pellaeon - the latter is my favourite Legends character. Daala was actually quite unlucky because after being isolate in the Maw, she lost 1 Star Destroyer during the escape of the Sun Crusher, representing 25% of her combat strength in her first real battle!
I think most people could agree that the books and comics of the Warlord Era got pretty complicated, but there were some BANGERS, and I do love the fact that it wasn't just, "the emporer died, so... peace forever", like NO, there's still multiple MASSIVE fleets, and MANY loyalist commanders and warlords to take on.
Small addendum to Admiral Dala's story, while she was a capable leader, its worth adding that she only received her rank as an Admiral at as young an age as she did, because she was Grand Moff Tarkin's mistress. She wasn't the best commander in the Imperial navy, because while she did almost always win in simulations and wargames, she only did so with massive casualties. I think its clear she was a better strategist and politician than she was an actual frontline commander.
I'm not sure. She specifically never wanted to be a politician. I think she was over agressive and reckless, but she would've also been held back by sexism without Tarkin
I heard that they added in a mention of brain damage in the Death Star novel to explain why despite Tarkin recruiting her for being a Naval genius at 3d warfare she was absolutely terrible at commanding all sorts of fleet engagements. Honestly I like an idea I heard elsewhere that she'd have been cooler if she was more of a groundpounder, maybe a spacetrooper at most. Started more as Tarkin's bodyguard loaned to him by Rom Mohc and ended up pressed into service as a Naval leader because she was in charge of the Maw.
I also feel like her defeat in Darksaber was kinda garbage (Honestly Darksaber could have been split into two books and with small changes to each of them been amazing. The main Darksaber would be a pure comedy rewritten with help from Aaron Allston(RIP) and starring Wraith Squadron helping Leia and two very confused Nohgri take down Durga. The other book would deal with the Reunification campaign, the Jedi, and Daala's defeat. But NO CALLISTA. I will always love Children of the Jedi for its wonderful descriptions of scenery and setting, but Callista was awful ad bringing her back for two more books was just terrible. (And the author really hated the idea of droid sentience.)
Well, that comes mostly from the form she was first represented. I mean loosing three of her four ISD so quickly was humiliating for her reputation among readers (even more if you compare her wth Thrawn), although that was in great parts "guilt" of the writer. Different writers see the power of ISD much different. For Zahn they are very hard to destroy - other authors destroy them much more quickly. However this fast loss is something which hangs on on Daala for a long time, as her failed second campaign against the Republic which was too fast planned and executed. However she will always have a place in my heart for ending more or less the Civil War and helping Pellaeon to get back his will to fight for a united Empire. They both rescued the imperial idea - I guess without them the Empire would have died step by step in infighting and through a advancing Rebellion.
"I will always love Children of the Jedi for its wonderful descriptions of scenery and setting" You're the first one I've ever seen that share this opinion. :)
Eckhart please make a video dedicated to Pellaeon. He's a strongly understated but very deep and important character in Legends. He became not just all Thrawn was but more.
BlackShogun 27 No, it won’t. You know how Disney works. They don’t cater to fans, especially the relatively small group that actually cares about the Expanded Universe and keeps screeching about it.
The editing is good, your explanation of the timeline is good, and your representation of Pelleon being at the top of the list and you covered my favourite era in star wars so this is a great video!
I remember how, when I was a kid, Ysanne Isard was my first real exposure to the post-Endor stuff when I read The Bacta War for a book report (and the mentioning of Zsinj in it too).
I like your video. It makes me want to read more Lost Legends. If I have to choose a favorite warlord, I have to choose Grand Admiral Thrawn. The “man” is so brilliantly evil. A villain with class that you can’t help but love.
Great episode! Definitely my favorite period of Star Wars. There are so many good stories from this time period. Thank you for this video. I really enjoyed it.
I know this is a super old video, but I wanna thank you for turning me onto the Plauegis novel, not quite finished, but you were so right it's amazing!!!!
Toss up between Thrawn and Pellaeon for me there. Thrwan is just awesome in his own right, but what I like about Pellaeon is the development he went through over the course of his appearances, from a capable if conservative commander to someone who took more than just one page from Thrawn and was quite able to hold his own (leading a fleet against the Vong from a Bacta tank and mocking his opponent? Hard to top that in my opinion).
I kept rooting for Thrawn to win in the...well...Thrawn Triology. XD He was just an awesome character. Btw, I would love to see more mass effects vids from you! I enjoyed the ones you made in the past.
Thrawn is without a doubt my favorite warlord. Would be cool if you made a video of what the other Grand Admirals did during the Imperial Civil War since a lot of them have pretty interesting stories.
I can't even imagine the amount of destruction and success the Imperial Remnant would have had if Admiral Daala came out of hiding from the Maw Installation and joined with Grand Admiral Thrawn while Pellaeon was still under him. You combine Thrawn's tactical brilliance with Daala's political moves (Though they could be very violent) to unite the rest of the Warlords and the Rebels would have had no chance IMO.
The Post Endor Imperial Civil War reminds me of Alexander the Great. In reality it was not 10 kingdoms that formed after the death of Alexander but hundreds of them mostly city states and this was most common in Greece because the elites of the Ancient Greek Kingdoms took back their territory. And the Spartans needed something to fight so they had to form. Men like Ptolomey would end up forcing many kingdoms to convert to the Ancient Greek Polytheistic Religion but eventually they would resist but factions even like the Judean populace would keep the Hellenic army standards.
Thrawn's seventh fleet vs Trench's fleet (The separatists spider admiral) You haven't done a vs battle in a while and this could be an interesting one to start it up again
Great vid as usual for you. There was one person I think should have at least earned an honorable mention, especially since you mentioned Director Isard. Delak Krennel and his Citruic Hegmony.
I didn't realize how much i wanted this video. I was just starting on Thrawn's Revenge myself, and had no real idea what most of the factions in the mod are. Also, where do you find which warlords joined Palpatine during Dark Empire? I didn't read that in the comic.
Very interesting , I really liked how you added bits and pieces of lore behind all the warlords. Could you do a video series on the gong war showcasing all the lore that happens. I don't have much time to read the books and haven't found a UA-cam who talks about as a entirety?
Here's what you should do, EckhartsLadder. *1. Imperial II Star Destroyer (Star Wars) vs Lucrehulk-class Droid Control Ship (Star Wars)* *2. Imperial II Star Destroyer (Star Wars) vs Romulan D'deridex-class, B-type Warbird (Star Trek)* *3. Tempest Shadow (My Little Pony: The Movie) vs Darth Vader (Star Wars)* *4. Darth Sidious/Palpatine (Star Wars) vs Mewtwo (Pokemon)* *5. Leatherhead (TMNT 2003) vs Wampa (Star Wars) aka "Could Leatherhead protect Luke against a Wampa?"* *6. What if Master Splinter (TMNT 2003) was a Jedi?* Please do these ones.
Raptormon OneThreeTwo Honestly, I don't think Tempest can do too much. She could do some damage, but Vader seems far more skilled. We barely see her do much in the movie, she really only won a few battles because the plot wanted her to.
+What's for dinner ? Good point, but it would be an interesting fight, because Tempest and Vader share many things in common, and that Tempest is both classed as the Darth Vader of MLP, and is possibly based on him.
Raptormon OneThreeTwo It would be kind of fun, but it seems one sided. To be honest, idk much about EU Vader, just really the movie one, but I hear he's really strong. Honestly, even movie Vader stands a pretty good chance. If EU Vader is as strong as he sounds, this could be an easy win, or a full out stomp.
My favorite is definitely is Grand Admiral Trawn is a Military tactical and knows his enemies weakness by studying there art and exploiting there moral And Back in Battle of attolon he did one savage blow to Phoenix Squadron and the Massasi Group
Ok, I didn't know you were going to do this video, and I actually thought about asking you to do it the other day as I was playing Thrawn's Revenge. Weird...
A few years late, but here I go. 1. Thrawn's cool, though mostly because I like the idea of someone other than Anakin/Vader being one of the more rational members of the Empire. As well as the idea of them being friends. 2. Daala is pretty underrated. She's the opposite of Thrawn in that, while intelligent in some ways, is crazy in others. Also, the idea of her guarding the top secret research facility in the Maw sounds cool. Might have a counterpart in the Disney Timeline named Ellain Zahra... 3. Does Lumiya count as a warlord? While she tended to work more behind the scenes, she made her own plays for power. Such as taking in Flint as her own Sith apprentice in the Marvel Comics.
You choose. Please like and comment a number. Thank you 🙂 1) StarCraft Zerg vs Halo's Reach. Could Halo's Reach survive a Zerg invasion? 2) 2 Harrower Dreadnaughts vs 1 Imperial Star Destroyer 3) Factions Compared Best Military Commander 4) Behemoth Battlecruiser vs Venator Star Destroyer 5) Top 5 Imperial commanders from canon 6) Imperial 1 Star Destroyer vs Imperial 2 Star Destroyer
I do find it tragic and ironic that Thrawn was not beaten in battle but was assassinated. Pellaeon was a simple officer. He never had these grand schemes and dreams of becoming the next Emperor of the galaxy. All he wanted was to try and win a war that many could say had been lost at Endor. So why not do a video on the Imperial Remnant VS. the First Order. Granted we know vary little about civilian government side of the First Order.
Gilad Pellaeon is in my opinion the ideal of what an imperial officer should have been. He was a stardestroyer captain under Darth Vader in his death squadron. He was at the battle of Endor, and one of the strongest proponents of going back and destroying the partying and weakened rebels. He was a solid to great admiral and leader, one of the strongest enemies of the Vong, the respected and beloved leader of both the Galactic alliance’s military and the imperial remnants armies, and he was a good man. Became friends with Luke skywalker and the rest of our heroes. Was murdered on Jacen Solo’s orders, when he had the moral fortitude to stop him from committing war crimes at the battle of fondor. He was a total BOSS!
FrozenGrip It would make "bad guys" actually menacing and competent, and Abrams and Johnson can't allow themselves to have something that can pose danger to Marey Sue
Cory if Pentastar had sided fully with Thrawn well, they'd still have lost because they were the badguys and the story would demand it. (Maybe Clone Palpatine would deliberately do something to STOP them from winning because he did not want Kaine and Thrawn to form a rival faction) But they'd do a LOT more damage. I'm more interested in how Thrawn would use the Reaper, he's all about having lots of simultaneous strikes all around the galaxy. An SSD is powerful, but naturally can only be in one place at a time. I feel like he'd probably use it to send the Republic on a wild goosechase.
Cory Dorton they did to a small extent. Kaine donated ships and resources to Thrawn during his campaign against the New Republic, although not many. I forget where I saw this, but I remember some wookieepedia article stating that Kaine was just about to bring a fleet to reinforce Bilbringi when Rukh assassinated Thrawn. I can't seem to find this info in the articles concerning Kaine and Thrawn however, so it might not be accurate.
I agree, apart from Daala being nr. 1, she managed to unite the majority of the remnant, but then sent it out on some angry rampage, wasting massive resources like te Knight Hammer. Placing Peleon above Thrawn makes sense in a way, since he not only outlasted him, but was able to transform the Imperial Remnant and help save the galaxy from the Vong.
Admirals Dalaa and Pallaeon are my favorite. They both represent the potential of imperial might as humans. Which is y even if Thrawn were to be first on the list, these two accomplished more than Thrawn ever did in his lifetime in leading the imperial remnants.
To be fair thrawn would probably be more sucessful if he lived longer. He took control at the weakest state of the empire and conquered half of the known galaxy in six months
@zfoxcrafter Yes, no doubt. When compared to humans (based on Imperial discrimination) Dalaa and Pallaeon are the best of what the Empire envisioned. If not for their actions, the Empire wouldn't exist that far into the future as we see during the Legacy comic era.
Few ideas. What if the CIS built the Death Star? Recusant Class Light Destroyer vs Something (Assault Frigate Mark II or MC75 maybe?) Trench Fleet vs Thrawn Fleet Best Support Ship, best tactics/tactician Combined Mass Effect navies vs Covenant (Minus Reapers)
I like the fact that the Empire broke up into competing factions after Palpatine's death. It kind of mirrors like in real life when Alexander the Great's Empire fell apart after his death into competing successor States. Lends some believability to a fictional universe.
Mongol empire did the same
Ed Sullivan gives me Macedonian, late Roman and early 20th Century China vibes which I love
its a natural thing to happen when huge empires go belly up.
Honestly, it reminded me of China the most.
Tom it did not do so instantly, tho. After Djingiz death is stayed united for a couple generations.
I much prefer the warlords splintering off to the idea that a year after Endor the Empire made peace and then a small group snuck off to form the First Order
That's what I had thought Disney was gonna go after their new sequels but apparently I wasn't even close.
Palpatine did orchestrate the end of the empire and its survivors into the first order. He didn’t do that in legends obviously.
Diego Andrade one of the stupidest emo decisions in new Star Wars canon.
The Enpire failed to protect me, so let me give the order to do operation Cinder and destroy my own loyal worlds? Is Palpatine 12 years old?
Ankh Morpok Star Wars is full of stupid decisions by characters. Palpatine came back immediately after ROTJ in legends. Instead of contacting thrawn he lets his greatest commander die and then he himself Dies.
@@diegoandrade467 Cue the clown music.
In reality though I've never understood what happened to Palpatine and his cognitive abilities. I mean after order 66 he was an idiot of a ruler.
I've always like the Imperial Civil War. To me, it makes more sense than having all the Imperials retreat to the Unknown Region.
Also, you can't beat Thrawn.
honestly, this would be the more likely scenario, the empire breaking into smaller regions under warlords, and the new republic probably going extinct, being sandwiched to death between those. nothing besides plot armor assures the small rebel alliance would be able to secure enough parts of the galaxy to the point the surviving ones go outside.
More likely and realistic to what happened with Alexander the Great
@ Arguably yes, except your neglecting: The new republic controls *coruscant.* If the new republic stayed off in the outer rim until the warlords had mostly killed eachother off, that'd be one thing. But the new republic owned the galaxies most wealthy, prosperous planets. That would paint a big, red target on their back to every single galactic power.
Can palpatine dark empire defeat thrawn?
@@pastelnuclear7356
After seeing how things went down in the Legends *and* Disney timelines, you could argue the galaxy might be better off without one huge government and should instead be split off into smaller, more autonomous, powers.
This is an era Legends handled really well. I know, some of it was over the top, but to see the Empire break apart from the infighting while the New Republic was being formed, with all of it's own issues... Just great.
Oh, and Pellaeon is the coolest dude around. A man of honor and compassion, that truly learned from history in his later years.
True - whereas by about three to six months after Endor in new canon, the Empire was even more shattered and bereft of leadership...
It was done on purpose in the new canon, but I think that whole storyline is a bit far-fetched. Destroying your own empire just to form a new, hidden one is a bit stupid. The Empire was so powerful, to think it could just be destroyed from within in such a short time... Legends felt more like an actual conflict, with many factions, each having their own motives. The new canon seems so small in comparision, everything is focused on a few select characters and groups. I guess it will be be better in a few years.
The amount of progress the Republic made in three or so months, even before the Operator helped, was a bit ludicrous.
It wouldn't just be "new canon versus legends." The Legends were always a completely different animal from any of the films. In all the movies, instead of summaries of huge campaigns, we never spend time with more than three planets. In the OT, we never even learn what the capital of the Empire even is.
Chris sonofPear actually the Empire was probably crumbling before Endor when you think about it, Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope made a big deal on how the Senate was needed to hold the Empire together and fear of the Death Star was the only thing Palpatine had to replace it until it was blown up a day later. This means the Empire was unstable for about 4 or 5 years and then lost its ruler and some of the high command.
The determination and savagery of the Imperial Command that survived after the Battle of Endor and splintered into warlords is what made the EU enjoyable. I just love it :]
who knows maybe the squeal trilogy is setting this up for for the new canon
Knightikhan
NOOOOOOOO! Disney erased the EU.
thats not entirely true the stories are noncanon now but the new canon is definitely drawing inspiration from the EU such as bring back Grand Admiral Thrawn and the fall of Han and Leia's son to the dark side
Knightikhan
the new canon is stealing and ruining EU/non-canon material. Such as ruining and disrespecting Thrawn's character and making him a background character that does nothing and has no importance to the story besides being a secondary bad guy to Darth Vader, and ruining Han Solo and Leia's character and by destroying their huge family of Jacen Solo, Jaina Solo and Anakin Solo, and stealing the idea of Han Solo's son being evil from the EU. Disney erased 97% of Star Wars lore and History, while the movies 1-6 are 3%. I hope you enjoyed Last Jedi because there will be a lot more movies like that ;)
At least Thrawn has some fairly cool moments in Rebels...
I'm glad Pellaeon is on the list, one of my favorite characters, surprised he was at the top spot alongside one of my most despised characters, I thought Thrawn would be more fitting at number one though....
Like her or hate her Dalaa is the only reason pellaeon is on the top spot she was the One that unified the Imperial forces (even though did it in an Evil way)and even though Thrawn was a better tactician he was not a politician and couldn't do what Dalaa and Pellaeon did also even though Thrawn came the closest to defeating the New Republic Dalaa and Pellaeon were the ones that didn't lose signing a treaty that ended Hostilities with the New Republic and made the Empire a Nation in the Eyes of the New Republic
Edit shit you made that comment a year ago
I think you should watch the new episode of the mandalorian
Thrawn is one of the best tacticians in the galaxy but hes awful at politics.
He can win the war by crushing his opponents but he probably wouldnt be able to sustain his empire like palleon did
I return from my vacation in the Unknown Regions and this is what I’m welcomed back with? Thank you, Loremaster Eck.
Grand Admiral Thrawn welcome back grand admiral I hope your trip went well
Yo what's up Thrawn u look hipped
Grand Admiral Thrawn I can see your cloaked asteroids
Sir, I'm surprised of how unsuccessful you were with achieving #1. You were by far the best.
Hey thrawn, how's the family
To me Thrrawn is the only true Warlord that was actually effective. All these other Warlords did was bombard and try to eviscerate people. Thrawn on the other hand was attempting to get people to surrender without having to fire a single shot. Even though he had to fire a few shots right at the beginning, a good example is when he attacked Coruscant and laid a ton of asteroids and fake asteroids above the planet. After he left he didn't have to ever fire single shot over Coruscant again and let space rocks do the work for him. Regardless of what the other Warlords did in the end thrawn was the king. I'm really glad you were sticking to Legends because they are way better stories and cannon from disney in my opinion can go take a long walk off a short pier into a Rushing River.
Keep up the amazing comparisons!
Zsinj used a lot of bombardment and coercion but he did try to coax surrender to get people under his banner.
And Thrawn was a "Warlord" because he earned the Warlord title under Palpatine, but technically he led the main Remnant itself.
Toggle Fire true thrawn was unmatched and I would like to see if his bodyguard didn't kill him if he would take over the entire galaxy
DIEGhostfish that is true. I think the parts that I don't agree with and the reason I like thrown the most is because these Warlords would just randomly attack places on a planet surface to get a surrender but since thron was a genius and studied his enemies he would basically only have to destroy possibly a couple key locations to break the people's will. So even if the wrong date attack of planetary object it was normally just as minimal damage is possible to get a surrender. The emperor was sure smart putting him in control of the remnant.
Lego mako Productions true that. It really sucks when the writer throws in a bunch of plot armor for the good guys.
Toggle Fire Zsinj would also buy businesses and send his fleets to rescue worlds from pirates. (While also recruiting the pirates if they survived and put up a worthy fight.)
Given the same fleet and navy, Thrawn would most likely win. But given that they didn't all have the same navy, this seems right.
Spaceman 28 hell thrawn would still most likely win
Thrawn's downfall was not knowing about the Noghri finding out their planet was secretly poisoned by the Empire...
This led to Rukh turning on Thrawn and assassinating him...
Thrawn never saw it coming...
Pelleaon was always my favorite imperial. In the Thrawn Trilogy, he's a likable character, and one of the first cases of an imperial being shown as a good man, who happens to work for the Empire.
After reading Rogue Squadron books and Wraith Squadron? Warlord Zsinj.
After reading thrawn trilogy? Thrawn
After reading all the post Thrawn info? Pellaeon
Honorable mention to Palpatine, as he created the Empire and made certain it stayed with such a strong military specifically so it could counter the Yuuzhan Vong.
Oh no my thrawns revenge flashbacks are coming back.
Honestly, who can top Thrawn? Dude was the closest to restoring the Empire back to its full potential (minus clone Palpatine) and probably could've help prevent the galaxy being less fucked-up than it originally was in Legends.
+Logan Smith Thrawn is the only person in SW who trapped Ackbar. Damn.
Yes, but Thrawn failed to realize one thing. The age of the empire was over. And contrary to the video, the battle thrawn was in during his assasination would have been hard fought either way. This is why i like Pelleaon. He knew when he was beat. And he realized that the empire has lost. Though for a while he chose to beliefe a strong man could turn this arround. But in the end, a person like Thrawn could end the empire in a bang. pelleaon could save it.
Also, Thrawn had one major weakness (This is according to Isard from the book X-Wing: Isard's Revenge.) With Thrawn being a non-human and having to put up with the xenophobic attitude the Empire had, he always had to try to make do with what he had and do it in a way that proved that he was equal or in many cases superior to other humans. Tactically he was brilliant, however he didn't really have the political know how to unite the other warlords to him. If he was successful in bringing all of the Imperial Factions under his banner, the New Republic would have had no chance.
Great vid. I’d put Thrawn at the top, but that’s just me.
Ethics Gradient How about a bearded Thrawn?
Spaceman 28 Bearded Thrawn is number 0. He transcends the list
Why the beard?
Ethics Gradient
All these fake Thrawn "fans" like you, only liked him after he became canon smh.
Mountaincrusher 3 because facial hair is awesome
Thrawn is amazing and awesome.
Yeah
Gerardo Reyes I agree Thrawn is Badass can't wait for Thrawn Alliances
Legends Thrawn is awesome, Disney Thrawn is shit.
Eh, he's still decent...
I personal don't like Thrawn as he always wins because he is simply better than everybody else and somehow predicts with 100% accuracy what everybody is going to do.
When Zsinj attacked Kuat to Steal Razor's Kiss it was still imperial Remnant under the Ruling Council.
nope. it was an imperial faction but never stated which
@@Revkor he is right. Kuat was controlled by the Empire
Pellaeon is my favorite character hands down. I don't even know where to begin with all the great things about him. But also, he has short comings which help make him a more real person. Argh he's just so good!
Natassi Dalla is one of my favorite characters! I wish there were more stories about her.
Blacklight Virus vs The Flood
*127th Attempt!!! I WILL NOT STOP!!!*
It's Ya Boi Daniel yes
ikr
It's Ya Boi Daniel Have you read the book about the virus? It's really good
If you mean the [Prototype] comics then yes I have
It's Ya Boi Daniel nah there is a chapter book, like 500 pages, on it. Death Troopers, I hope the virus you said is the same, it makes people turn into zombies with rapid adaptation times.
I totally dig Thrawn and Pellaeon - the latter is my favourite Legends character. Daala was actually quite unlucky because after being isolate in the Maw, she lost 1 Star Destroyer during the escape of the Sun Crusher, representing 25% of her combat strength in her first real battle!
I think most people could agree that the books and comics of the Warlord Era got pretty complicated, but there were some BANGERS, and I do love the fact that it wasn't just, "the emporer died, so... peace forever", like NO, there's still multiple MASSIVE fleets, and MANY loyalist commanders and warlords to take on.
Wow easily one of your best videos
Bgizzy 24 Hey, we have the same profile pic!
GenericGamer283 Thrawn forever!
Pellaeon is probably my favorite. He was pragmatic and honorable, if not particularly brilliant. I love his depiction in Crimson Empire.
Small addendum to Admiral Dala's story, while she was a capable leader, its worth adding that she only received her rank as an Admiral at as young an age as she did, because she was Grand Moff Tarkin's mistress. She wasn't the best commander in the Imperial navy, because while she did almost always win in simulations and wargames, she only did so with massive casualties. I think its clear she was a better strategist and politician than she was an actual frontline commander.
I'm not sure. She specifically never wanted to be a politician. I think she was over agressive and reckless, but she would've also been held back by sexism without Tarkin
I really enjoy your videos; i don't have too much Star Wars knowledge and I love watching your well choreographed and accurate comparisons.
For a vehicle VS: AT-AA vs the AA Wraith
For a factions compared: Which Faction had the best repulsorlift tank
I love Star Wars lore after return of the Jedi
Luke Johns X-Wing series and Thrawn Trilogy are my favorites post-ROTJ.
Those are about top of my list. I also liked the Han Solo trilogy quite a lot.
Natasi Daala is so underestimated that hurts.
She is a little crazy haha. In a good way tho.
I heard that they added in a mention of brain damage in the Death Star novel to explain why despite Tarkin recruiting her for being a Naval genius at 3d warfare she was absolutely terrible at commanding all sorts of fleet engagements.
Honestly I like an idea I heard elsewhere that she'd have been cooler if she was more of a groundpounder, maybe a spacetrooper at most. Started more as Tarkin's bodyguard loaned to him by Rom Mohc and ended up pressed into service as a Naval leader because she was in charge of the Maw.
I also feel like her defeat in Darksaber was kinda garbage (Honestly Darksaber could have been split into two books and with small changes to each of them been amazing. The main Darksaber would be a pure comedy rewritten with help from Aaron Allston(RIP) and starring Wraith Squadron helping Leia and two very confused Nohgri take down Durga.
The other book would deal with the Reunification campaign, the Jedi, and Daala's defeat. But NO CALLISTA. I will always love Children of the Jedi for its wonderful descriptions of scenery and setting, but Callista was awful ad bringing her back for two more books was just terrible. (And the author really hated the idea of droid sentience.)
Well, that comes mostly from the form she was first represented. I mean loosing three of her four ISD so quickly was humiliating for her reputation among readers (even more if you compare her wth Thrawn), although that was in great parts "guilt" of the writer. Different writers see the power of ISD much different. For Zahn they are very hard to destroy - other authors destroy them much more quickly. However this fast loss is something which hangs on on Daala for a long time, as her failed second campaign against the Republic which was too fast planned and executed. However she will always have a place in my heart for ending more or less the Civil War and helping Pellaeon to get back his will to fight for a united Empire. They both rescued the imperial idea - I guess without them the Empire would have died step by step in infighting and through a advancing Rebellion.
"I will always love Children of the Jedi for its wonderful descriptions of scenery and setting" You're the first one I've ever seen that share this opinion. :)
Eckhart please make a video dedicated to Pellaeon. He's a strongly understated but very deep and important character in Legends. He became not just all Thrawn was but more.
I miss the EU
Masako I do to, but don't worry. I have a sense that either this will become canon or Disney will reeboot the new canon and bring back 80% of the EU
Hmm...
It still exists you know. Even Wookiepedia retains it unchanged.
BlackShogun 27 No, it won’t. You know how Disney works. They don’t cater to fans, especially the relatively small group that actually cares about the Expanded Universe and keeps screeching about it.
No reason to miss it as I'm certain it'll outlast the fan-fiction being put on the big screen.
This is my favourite video you have ever done
Me too I think
Quite a few highlights here. No Grand Moff Kaine though, who was a power in his own right...
The editing is good, your explanation of the timeline is good, and your representation of Pelleon being at the top of the list and you covered my favourite era in star wars so this is a great video!
Liking the new format
I'd have to say that Grand Admiral Thrawn was my all time favorite Imperial Warlord with Daala coming in a very close second, almost tied in fact.
To defeat an ennemy you must know them. Not simply their battle tactics, but their history, philosophy... Art.
I thought superior general delvardus and the eraidu authority was pretty cool
Yeah but he definitely number 6 of the Warlords.
this is a really good video just joined ur discord and patreon planning on donating tonight : )
Welcome to the team!
tanks : )
Thrawn is my waifu
A Can of Diet Pepsi The correct term is “Husbando”
@@aaronlonghuynh5245 why does hasbando sound Hispanic
Thank you eck I love your videos
I don't always agree with you but your pretty cool UA-camr
I remember how, when I was a kid, Ysanne Isard was my first real exposure to the post-Endor stuff when I read The Bacta War for a book report (and the mentioning of Zsinj in it too).
I Say Thrawn is my favorite Warlord.
Thrawn is a better War Lord
Can't wait for Thrawn Alliances
Thrawn and Vader are going to team up
Suggestion: Kamino defence force vs CIS fleet at Serenno
Georg Bergsten, please yes. Yes yes absolutely goddamn yes.
Cool
I like your video. It makes me want to read more Lost Legends.
If I have to choose a favorite warlord, I have to choose Grand Admiral Thrawn. The “man” is so brilliantly evil. A villain with class that you can’t help but love.
You reposted in the wrong galaxy!
Palpatine: alright guys I'm back and WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED!!!
Warlords: hey boss
Great episode! Definitely my favorite period of Star Wars. There are so many good stories from this time period. Thank you for this video. I really enjoyed it.
I know this is a super old video, but I wanna thank you for turning me onto the Plauegis novel, not quite finished, but you were so right it's amazing!!!!
Toss up between Thrawn and Pellaeon for me there.
Thrwan is just awesome in his own right, but what I like about Pellaeon is the development he went through over the course of his appearances, from a capable if conservative commander to someone who took more than just one page from Thrawn and was quite able to hold his own (leading a fleet against the Vong from a Bacta tank and mocking his opponent? Hard to top that in my opinion).
Lore about the Imperial Warlords is one of my favourite subjects in legends.
The excellent quality of this video gave away the fact that you're talking about your favorite era ;)
Small mistake: At the time Zsinj made a strike against Kuat, Kuat was still under control of the Imperial Remnants.
This video is one of the best he has made, fantastic work.
I've got a lot of gaps in my star wars knowledge so it was really interesting to hear you talk about Thrawn not being at no.1 like I expected.
Grand Admiral Thrawn is my favourite, he came across as being a great military leader in the Thrawn Trilogy and I'm enjoying his portrayal in Rebels.
I kept rooting for Thrawn to win in the...well...Thrawn Triology. XD He was just an awesome character.
Btw, I would love to see more mass effects vids from you! I enjoyed the ones you made in the past.
Just in time man tnx
Thrawn is without a doubt my favorite warlord. Would be cool if you made a video of what the other Grand Admirals did during the Imperial Civil War since a lot of them have pretty interesting stories.
I can't even imagine the amount of destruction and success the Imperial Remnant would have had if Admiral Daala came out of hiding from the Maw Installation and joined with Grand Admiral Thrawn while Pellaeon was still under him. You combine Thrawn's tactical brilliance with Daala's political moves (Though they could be very violent) to unite the rest of the Warlords and the Rebels would have had no chance IMO.
Super great video. I knew who your top (at least one of your tops) would be as soon as I looked at the thumbnail though :D
seeing the Empire eventually join up with the Republic is something that makes me Happy inside
The Post Endor Imperial Civil War reminds me of Alexander the Great. In reality it was not 10 kingdoms that formed after the death of Alexander but hundreds of them mostly city states and this was most common in Greece because the elites of the Ancient Greek Kingdoms took back their territory. And the Spartans needed something to fight so they had to form. Men like Ptolomey would end up forcing many kingdoms to convert to the Ancient Greek Polytheistic Religion but eventually they would resist but factions even like the Judean populace would keep the Hellenic army standards.
Thrawn be like
"You should see what I can do with a paper clip."
One of my my favorite videos already watched three times
There needs to be a game of thrones style about the Imperial Warlords. I'll watch the fucking hell out of that.
Thrawn's seventh fleet vs Trench's fleet (The separatists spider admiral) You haven't done a vs battle in a while and this could be an interesting one to start it up again
Great vid as usual for you. There was one person I think should have at least earned an honorable mention, especially since you mentioned Director Isard. Delak Krennel and his Citruic Hegmony.
Love this video and this era! Pentastar alignment's my fav by far
Thrawn and Admiral Pellaeon are the best of this list
I didn't realize how much i wanted this video. I was just starting on Thrawn's Revenge myself, and had no real idea what most of the factions in the mod are.
Also, where do you find which warlords joined Palpatine during Dark Empire? I didn't read that in the comic.
Very interesting , I really liked how you added bits and pieces of lore behind all the warlords. Could you do a video series on the gong war showcasing all the lore that happens. I don't have much time to read the books and haven't found a UA-cam who talks about as a entirety?
You're my favorite starwars expert on UA-cam
Good VID man keep the good work and may the force be with us (Obi wan can take them all on he just needs the high ground)
Here's what you should do, EckhartsLadder.
*1. Imperial II Star Destroyer (Star Wars) vs Lucrehulk-class Droid Control Ship (Star Wars)*
*2. Imperial II Star Destroyer (Star Wars) vs Romulan D'deridex-class, B-type Warbird (Star Trek)*
*3. Tempest Shadow (My Little Pony: The Movie) vs Darth Vader (Star Wars)*
*4. Darth Sidious/Palpatine (Star Wars) vs Mewtwo (Pokemon)*
*5. Leatherhead (TMNT 2003) vs Wampa (Star Wars) aka "Could Leatherhead protect Luke against a Wampa?"*
*6. What if Master Splinter (TMNT 2003) was a Jedi?*
Please do these ones.
Raptormon OneThreeTwo Honestly, I don't think Tempest can do too much. She could do some damage, but Vader seems far more skilled. We barely see her do much in the movie, she really only won a few battles because the plot wanted her to.
+What's for dinner ?
Good point, but it would be an interesting fight, because Tempest and Vader share many things in common, and that Tempest is both classed as the Darth Vader of MLP, and is possibly based on him.
Mlp is shit for kids
Raptormon OneThreeTwo It would be kind of fun, but it seems one sided. To be honest, idk much about EU Vader, just really the movie one, but I hear he's really strong. Honestly, even movie Vader stands a pretty good chance. If EU Vader is as strong as he sounds, this could be an easy win, or a full out stomp.
You are the best star wars channel eith the most interesting content
My favorite is definitely is Grand Admiral Trawn is a Military tactical and knows his enemies weakness by studying there art and exploiting there moral And Back in Battle of attolon he did one savage blow to Phoenix Squadron and the Massasi Group
I’m so glad about the top slot you awarded for this vid. Some characters deserve to get more exploration :-)
Ok, I didn't know you were going to do this video, and I actually thought about asking you to do it the other day as I was playing Thrawn's Revenge. Weird...
You should do a narration of what happened to the Empire from start to finish right after the battle of Endor.
A few years late, but here I go.
1. Thrawn's cool, though mostly because I like the idea of someone other than Anakin/Vader being one of the more rational members of the Empire. As well as the idea of them being friends.
2. Daala is pretty underrated. She's the opposite of Thrawn in that, while intelligent in some ways, is crazy in others. Also, the idea of her guarding the top secret research facility in the Maw sounds cool. Might have a counterpart in the Disney Timeline named Ellain Zahra...
3. Does Lumiya count as a warlord? While she tended to work more behind the scenes, she made her own plays for power. Such as taking in Flint as her own Sith apprentice in the Marvel Comics.
You choose. Please like and comment a number. Thank you 🙂
1) StarCraft Zerg vs Halo's Reach. Could Halo's Reach survive a Zerg invasion?
2) 2 Harrower Dreadnaughts vs 1 Imperial Star Destroyer
3) Factions Compared Best Military Commander
4) Behemoth Battlecruiser vs Venator Star Destroyer
5) Top 5 Imperial commanders from canon
6) Imperial 1 Star Destroyer vs Imperial 2 Star Destroyer
Hmm I wonder why he chose this specific topic... lol
Why did he
TrueToCaesar he's been playing Thrawn's Revenge Imperial Civil war.
And the 2.2 version of the mod is coming out.
I do find it tragic and ironic that Thrawn was not beaten in battle but was assassinated. Pellaeon was a simple officer. He never had these grand schemes and dreams of becoming the next Emperor of the galaxy. All he wanted was to try and win a war that many could say had been lost at Endor.
So why not do a video on the Imperial Remnant VS. the First Order. Granted we know vary little about civilian government side of the First Order.
I love that they had thrawn mention "captain" pellaeon at the end of rebels😎
Hoth to around Dark Empire is the best era of Star Wars
Gilad Pellaeon is in my opinion the ideal of what an imperial officer should have been. He was a stardestroyer captain under Darth Vader in his death squadron. He was at the battle of Endor, and one of the strongest proponents of going back and destroying the partying and weakened rebels. He was a solid to great admiral and leader, one of the strongest enemies of the Vong, the respected and beloved leader of both the Galactic alliance’s military and the imperial remnants armies, and he was a good man. Became friends with Luke skywalker and the rest of our heroes. Was murdered on Jacen Solo’s orders, when he had the moral fortitude to stop him from committing war crimes at the battle of fondor. He was a total BOSS!
I voted for this on discord
At last legends!!
Abeloth vs the jedi high council
Abaloth would reck
I still don't know why Disney couldn't integrate the Thrawn Trilogy into the current canon and have TLJ and TFA fit into it. Makes me sad
FrozenGrip They probably will in the future as a flashback bridging story. It's a waste of good story and potential cash flood.
FrozenGrip
It would make "bad guys" actually menacing and competent, and Abrams and Johnson can't allow themselves to have something that can pose danger to Marey Sue
Well thrawn trilogy was the original plan but not all the actors wanted to do 3 more movies and they are all kinda of old
Couldn't Jacen and Jaina I guess, but they could have kept most other stuff. Still, they want authors to tell 'new stories' it seems.
Chris sonofPear That’s a good thing. It encourages creativity rather than fan service and making the exact same stories.
I always thought the pentastar alignment was the best of the post endor Warlord. It seemed to be the most well structured and actually had an economy.
You have to wounded what would have happened if the Pentis star alliance did fight with Thrawn
Cory Dorton
"With"
That can have extremely diffrent meanings. Did you mean "alongside" or "against"?
Honest Happy Hater sorry I ment along side
They did kind of give him support, but a bit reluctantly.
Cory if Pentastar had sided fully with Thrawn well, they'd still have lost because they were the badguys and the story would demand it. (Maybe Clone Palpatine would deliberately do something to STOP them from winning because he did not want Kaine and Thrawn to form a rival faction)
But they'd do a LOT more damage.
I'm more interested in how Thrawn would use the Reaper, he's all about having lots of simultaneous strikes all around the galaxy. An SSD is powerful, but naturally can only be in one place at a time. I feel like he'd probably use it to send the Republic on a wild goosechase.
Cory Dorton they did to a small extent. Kaine donated ships and resources to Thrawn during his campaign against the New Republic, although not many.
I forget where I saw this, but I remember some wookieepedia article stating that Kaine was just about to bring a fleet to reinforce Bilbringi when Rukh assassinated Thrawn. I can't seem to find this info in the articles concerning Kaine and Thrawn however, so it might not be accurate.
I agree, apart from Daala being nr. 1, she managed to unite the majority of the remnant, but then sent it out on some angry rampage, wasting massive resources like te Knight Hammer. Placing Peleon above Thrawn makes sense in a way, since he not only outlasted him, but was able to transform the Imperial Remnant and help save the galaxy from the Vong.
Eclipse vs Supremacy (no super weapon just a ship on ship battle.)
Epic vid
Thrawn is so freaking cool
Good video and Eckhartsladder could you please do a video on the usan vong war?
Admirals Dalaa and Pallaeon are my favorite. They both represent the potential of imperial might as humans. Which is y even if Thrawn were to be first on the list, these two accomplished more than Thrawn ever did in his lifetime in leading the imperial remnants.
To be fair thrawn would probably be more sucessful if he lived longer. He took control at the weakest state of the empire and conquered half of the known galaxy in six months
@zfoxcrafter
Yes, no doubt. When compared to humans (based on Imperial discrimination) Dalaa and Pallaeon are the best of what the Empire envisioned. If not for their actions, the Empire wouldn't exist that far into the future as we see during the Legacy comic era.
Few ideas.
What if the CIS built the Death Star?
Recusant Class Light Destroyer vs Something (Assault Frigate Mark II or MC75 maybe?)
Trench Fleet vs Thrawn Fleet
Best Support Ship, best tactics/tactician
Combined Mass Effect navies vs Covenant (Minus Reapers)
Great Video!
This was an excellent episode. Palleon is probably my favorite warlord because he seems like a normal person *who has seen some shit.
Daala, then Thrawn, then Pellaeon... the rest can burn in the galactic core's fires alongside palpatine
I would like to see a video on the Hapes consortium. Seeing how they play such a pivotal role in the later books.