I love following people yeah. One reason i love Outlaws is because Jake and Danteh are part of the team still. And Jake was a founding member. And Danteh was there since season 2. So I get it
thats on the "veteren" players who cant keep up, the ones that play 1 season, stop practicing and then become washed compared to the rookies that come in better and better every year
i find it the other way around. i love seeing players move around to see how they do in a new environment especially when they do even better. only thing i don't like around this is full team drops in a single offseason. Keeping that core player is super important imo so the next year you still have a piece and a feeling of the last years team.
The reality of the NetEase Blizzard situation is: if they don’t come back to an agreement, it’s extremely hard to find another partner because: 1. Blizzard games are not that profitable anymore in China compare to the big cost to maintain the operation; 2. They have to renew their permit if their partner is changed; 3. Don’t expect any less time spent through the process thinking they are “old games”. The current permit for those games are kinda outdated especially for OW2 and WOW. NetEase can make it do because they were actively avoiding the permit issue by pretending the games only received minor updates (the name of OW2 in China is different, WOW China has been using the same main menu screen since Legion.) Once they have to apply for a new permit, I don’t think they will be treated as “old” games.
Was pretty sure the Chinese viewership and draw was extremely large? Even comparatively to the rest of the world. So the profit should be there for that region. Just think simply contract expired. Wouldn't be surprised if they eventually work something out
@@CrazeeAdam It's hard to get the exact number. The OWL broadcast is contracted to Bilibili (a Chinese video platform like UA-cam, who also owns HangZhou Spark). Their streaming feature doesn't really show real concurrent viewership. They only have a "popularity number" which is calculated based on multiple tricky factors (donations, chats, viewership, etc.) I personally watched Chinese broadcast a lot when APAC teams played. My feeling is the viewership is probably comparable to the UA-cam number, but nothing "extremely large". My impression is that OW is a game even more niche in China than in the west considering the overall gaming population in China. OW2 was not received too well either (you know all the complaints). Many people mentioned 3% revenue from China for Activision/Blizzard. The percentage should be higher if you only only consider Blizzard (above 10% I think), but on the other side, it didn't earn much for NetEase either (what I heard is also low single digit, NetEase now rely more on their own games. Diablo Immortal was actually largely developed by NetEase). In summary, the situation is NOT GOOD AT ALL. If this really ends with pulling all Blizzard games from China, it would be a big disturbance for OWL. I don't think Bilibili and NetEase will continue supporting Spark and Dragons when the game can't even be accessed. The Chinese players probably will switch game, and the teams will be sold to Korean or western organizations.
Danteh, Profit, Fleta, Fate, Fury, Hotba, Closer, Architect, Space,Poko, Void, Izayaki have all been since season 1. A majority of the players here aren't signed to a team but I am putting them here until they get signed, or don't.
So right now the only Western Players remaining are Danteh and Space (assuming he doesn't retire), which is crazy. If you had asked me Season 1, Danteh probably wouldnt have been my bet for who would stay, but glad he has had Outlaws and can thrive these last two years.
Part of the OWL lack of veterans i think is also caused by the fact the league is Korean dominated, the mandatory service stops alot of carears running longer, causing retirements and maybe some sceptical views from gms. Definitely not it all but i think its a huge part.
Jaws' aggressive take on not being excited about coaches was very weird. Strong negative vibe shift and makes next to no sense. It's one of the strongest indicators of team direction because of the amount of control coaches typically have on the construction. I don't get why, as a pundit, you wouldn't listen to the Casores interview before being so opinionated. You just finished travelling from Korea; I know you had time to listen to an hour of audio (could 2x it too).
Jaws take on signing a coach with no players is weird. Casores said he has a lot of say in signings so you would think his preferred style of OW would shape the roster and be influenced by his past successes, which to me would be interesting to discuss
@@kafkalul what I'm saying is, it'd be bad for a newer coach or to be excited by a newer coach, like i wouldn't be excited for some super new coach. But if it's like someone who had been around awhile as a coach then yes, I would be excited about them going to a team actually. :) unsure if that was made clear.
it's not as simple as "just move all Chinese teams to Korea and play there". Once the contract between Netease and Blizzard expires, all Chinese players lose acess to the game, and the stream platform will lose the permission to stream OWL since OW2 will not be a legally permitted game in China. Even if they were going to stream it somehow, who's gonna watch a game that they can't even play? It would become meaningless for Chinese teams keep investing, cause it's just not profitable.
Soooo there's soju that's like a wine that has flavors or is similar to Sake. Then there is soju that's flavorless korean vodka that is given to unfamiliar people to get them drunk as a skunk because they think it's low proof(it makes fantastic cocktails). You got bamboozled.
Not a bamboozled lol literally just two different kinds of drinks. The soju thats more flavorful high proof is the og old style of soju thats died off mostly and is much rarer to find.
the team now has its sights set in a championship and kilo while good was not at the level that they needed that's why striker came in its a little bit worrying if you have to sign someone out if retirement to bench someone. He's still good and deserves a shot on a good team however
Can tell Jaws doesn't mesh well with Avrls stronger personality and opinion, but I for one love having Avrl on. I like his insight for sure, but I also just like someone who's not afraid to not only give strong takes, but call someone out for the flaws in theirs. When Jaws said being excited for a new coach of no players is a shit take I was quite happy to see Avrl put him to task.
Avast makes a really good point about veterans. The teams I cheer for change each year depending on who the players are on them. The team I have liked the most the past few years is Seoul, but not because of the team itself, rather I just love Profit. If he moved to a different team than I would cheer for that team. Replacing players loved by people every year for rookies makes the League way less fan friendly
Companies don't make deals based on how their stock goes right after an announcement, that's a ridiculous take 😂 Both companies said that this deal is a very small part of their revenue (Blizz said 3%, NetEase said low single digits), so it's not like either company must absolutely make a deal. It sucks for the League though. And Chinese players obviously.
32:10 blizzard could have decided prior to the Chinese news (cuz they probably shouldve known that before the general public since they r the ones who made the agreement/deal etc) that they were already planning to move the Chinese teams to either Korea or the states anyways for the 2023 season. Hence the "owl 2023 plans will not be affected by this" probably bcuz 1 they knew about deal expiring soon + (i hope they want this) that they want to eliminate the region split of the teams so every team can verse each other during regular season games + every team is able to compete in the same tournaments too
I blame Spitfire for all the teams letting their players go, I bet teams looked at spitfire and what they achieved this year on their budget and thought they want to do the same
Rather than 'blame' them, I think what Spitfire demonstrated is having a good team and good coaching matters as much as mechanical gods, I think if anything that is a positive. However as they pointed out on Plat Chat a few weeks ago, it's stupid to think that you can replicate that easily - see London last year.
If anything, they could still own and control the team from China, but will have to opporate outside of China... maybe Korea or back in the USA/Canada. Who knows what's going to happen?
I completely agree with Jaws on the conversation of getting hyped over coaches in the vein of me rooting for a roster of players instead of the coach behind it. This year I rooted for Seoul, Shock, and Atlanta just because I loved their rosters. Every year the team I root for changes because I don't put a lot of stock into the team itself but rather the players on it. I'm from Boston but live in Houston and I don't root for them every year if i don't like their roster.
15 minutes of them talking about nothing but themselves drunk at a wedding like some high school kids.....and here I thought they were adults. People are here for OWL and OW not childish escapades.
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Thank you reinforce for still making this happen
They should've given Carpe second place one last time for Bren's Player of the Week
Replacing teams with cheap rookies every year assures the destruction of OW league. Loyal fans follow players not just team brands.
Thars the whole reason why OWL... Sucks
I love following people yeah. One reason i love Outlaws is because Jake and Danteh are part of the team still. And Jake was a founding member. And Danteh was there since season 2. So I get it
them rookies aren't only cheap. they are much better at the game also. would you rather prefer owl with washed veteran players?
thats on the "veteren" players who cant keep up, the ones that play 1 season, stop practicing and then become washed compared to the rookies that come in better and better every year
i find it the other way around. i love seeing players move around to see how they do in a new environment especially when they do even better. only thing i don't like around this is full team drops in a single offseason. Keeping that core player is super important imo so the next year you still have a piece and a feeling of the last years team.
The reality of the NetEase Blizzard situation is: if they don’t come back to an agreement, it’s extremely hard to find another partner because: 1. Blizzard games are not that profitable anymore in China compare to the big cost to maintain the operation; 2. They have to renew their permit if their partner is changed; 3. Don’t expect any less time spent through the process thinking they are “old games”. The current permit for those games are kinda outdated especially for OW2 and WOW. NetEase can make it do because they were actively avoiding the permit issue by pretending the games only received minor updates (the name of OW2 in China is different, WOW China has been using the same main menu screen since Legion.) Once they have to apply for a new permit, I don’t think they will be treated as “old” games.
Was pretty sure the Chinese viewership and draw was extremely large? Even comparatively to the rest of the world. So the profit should be there for that region. Just think simply contract expired. Wouldn't be surprised if they eventually work something out
@@CrazeeAdam It's hard to get the exact number. The OWL broadcast is contracted to Bilibili (a Chinese video platform like UA-cam, who also owns HangZhou Spark). Their streaming feature doesn't really show real concurrent viewership. They only have a "popularity number" which is calculated based on multiple tricky factors (donations, chats, viewership, etc.) I personally watched Chinese broadcast a lot when APAC teams played. My feeling is the viewership is probably comparable to the UA-cam number, but nothing "extremely large". My impression is that OW is a game even more niche in China than in the west considering the overall gaming population in China. OW2 was not received too well either (you know all the complaints). Many people mentioned 3% revenue from China for Activision/Blizzard. The percentage should be higher if you only only consider Blizzard (above 10% I think), but on the other side, it didn't earn much for NetEase either (what I heard is also low single digit, NetEase now rely more on their own games. Diablo Immortal was actually largely developed by NetEase). In summary, the situation is NOT GOOD AT ALL. If this really ends with pulling all Blizzard games from China, it would be a big disturbance for OWL. I don't think Bilibili and NetEase will continue supporting Spark and Dragons when the game can't even be accessed. The Chinese players probably will switch game, and the teams will be sold to Korean or western organizations.
Danteh, Profit, Fleta, Fate, Fury, Hotba, Closer, Architect, Space,Poko, Void, Izayaki have all been since season 1. A majority of the players here aren't signed to a team but I am putting them here until they get signed, or don't.
Void is done. He isn’t coming back.
So right now the only Western Players remaining are Danteh and Space (assuming he doesn't retire), which is crazy. If you had asked me Season 1, Danteh probably wouldnt have been my bet for who would stay, but glad he has had Outlaws and can thrive these last two years.
All of them dont have a team rn which is crazy
Part of the OWL lack of veterans i think is also caused by the fact the league is Korean dominated, the mandatory service stops alot of carears running longer, causing retirements and maybe some sceptical views from gms. Definitely not it all but i think its a huge part.
It may play some part but League of Legends has a lot of Koreans and has more veterans than OWL
@@acousticwalrus6705 but league is also double the age of ow
Jaws' aggressive take on not being excited about coaches was very weird. Strong negative vibe shift and makes next to no sense. It's one of the strongest indicators of team direction because of the amount of control coaches typically have on the construction. I don't get why, as a pundit, you wouldn't listen to the Casores interview before being so opinionated. You just finished travelling from Korea; I know you had time to listen to an hour of audio (could 2x it too).
Jaws take on signing a coach with no players is weird. Casores said he has a lot of say in signings so you would think his preferred style of OW would shape the roster and be influenced by his past successes, which to me would be interesting to discuss
Only if it's like, Rush, Crusty, Moon. Someone who can really draw players. Can't be a random new coach imo
@@CrazeeAdam Random new coach? Casores has been coaching in owl since 2018 and has a grand finals title under his belt. What about Junkbuk/kdg?
@@kafkalul what I'm saying is, it'd be bad for a newer coach or to be excited by a newer coach, like i wouldn't be excited for some super new coach. But if it's like someone who had been around awhile as a coach then yes, I would be excited about them going to a team actually. :) unsure if that was made clear.
Best part of this podcast is when Jaws internet went to shit, because the nonsense he was talking about head coaches was unbearable.
it's not as simple as "just move all Chinese teams to Korea and play there". Once the contract between Netease and Blizzard expires, all Chinese players lose acess to the game, and the stream platform will lose the permission to stream OWL since OW2 will not be a legally permitted game in China. Even if they were going to stream it somehow, who's gonna watch a game that they can't even play? It would become meaningless for Chinese teams keep investing, cause it's just not profitable.
valorant is still not officially published in china im pretty sure
Soooo there's soju that's like a wine that has flavors or is similar to Sake. Then there is soju that's flavorless korean vodka that is given to unfamiliar people to get them drunk as a skunk because they think it's low proof(it makes fantastic cocktails). You got bamboozled.
Not a bamboozled lol literally just two different kinds of drinks. The soju thats more flavorful high proof is the og old style of soju thats died off mostly and is much rarer to find.
Kinda sad the moment we get a little positivity with good UA-cam viewership on a finals that it instantly becomes doom and gloom again
Kilo leaving Shock the made me super sad as he was my favorite new Shock player, I’d like to see him picked up by a decent team at least.
he was shite
the team now has its sights set in a championship and kilo while good was not at the level that they needed that's why striker came in its a little bit worrying if you have to sign someone out if retirement to bench someone. He's still good and deserves a shot on a good team however
@@adequtemaster6802 it was his decision to leave
50% soju and a speakeasy? Holy. I need to know the place
Jaws got nuked by the Casores hyperfans
Danteh is a 5 year vet? Lol why did it take that long
Avast is still clearly drunk. 50% *PERCENT* alcohol. More like alohocohol
Can tell Jaws doesn't mesh well with Avrls stronger personality and opinion, but I for one love having Avrl on. I like his insight for sure, but I also just like someone who's not afraid to not only give strong takes, but call someone out for the flaws in theirs. When Jaws said being excited for a new coach of no players is a shit take I was quite happy to see Avrl put him to task.
Avast makes a really good point about veterans. The teams I cheer for change each year depending on who the players are on them. The team I have liked the most the past few years is Seoul, but not because of the team itself, rather I just love Profit. If he moved to a different team than I would cheer for that team. Replacing players loved by people every year for rookies makes the League way less fan friendly
I'm mid-30s so maybe 5-10ish years older than these guys and holy crap the wedding stories brought back so many memories 🤣🤣🤣
Companies don't make deals based on how their stock goes right after an announcement, that's a ridiculous take 😂
Both companies said that this deal is a very small part of their revenue (Blizz said 3%, NetEase said low single digits), so it's not like either company must absolutely make a deal.
It sucks for the League though. And Chinese players obviously.
1:19:30 Anamo
32:10 blizzard could have decided prior to the Chinese news (cuz they probably shouldve known that before the general public since they r the ones who made the agreement/deal etc) that they were already planning to move the Chinese teams to either Korea or the states anyways for the 2023 season. Hence the "owl 2023 plans will not be affected by this" probably bcuz 1 they knew about deal expiring soon + (i hope they want this) that they want to eliminate the region split of the teams so every team can verse each other during regular season games + every team is able to compete in the same tournaments too
They'd never drop Profit haha Clueless
I blame Spitfire for all the teams letting their players go, I bet teams looked at spitfire and what they achieved this year on their budget and thought they want to do the same
Rather than 'blame' them, I think what Spitfire demonstrated is having a good team and good coaching matters as much as mechanical gods, I think if anything that is a positive. However as they pointed out on Plat Chat a few weeks ago, it's stupid to think that you can replicate that easily - see London last year.
Gotta love the juice from the Caster parties.
SMURF TO PHILLY
Hi
Hewwo! uwu
Helloo
@@floralpatterns21 love how I can use the "translate to English" feature on this message
Disappointed in the moth disrespect when ranking top main support free agents. Still top 1 main support.
He hasn’t started in 2 years damn near
100% he has moved on in life lmfao
Moth was just a very good team players not the
Best at his
Roles tho
Isn't Activision partners with Tencent tho?
I mean riot is owned by tencent and it was still a long while for valorant to get approved.
@@KingDanOfBarr You make a good point. Hmmm. Well, at least there is hope.
If anything, they could still own and control the team from China, but will have to opporate outside of China... maybe Korea or back in the USA/Canada. Who knows what's going to happen?
It's not 'Oh' and pretty sure OWL management and many GMs know things before AB post on the Internet.
I completely agree with Jaws on the conversation of getting hyped over coaches in the vein of me rooting for a roster of players instead of the coach behind it. This year I rooted for Seoul, Shock, and Atlanta just because I loved their rosters. Every year the team I root for changes because I don't put a lot of stock into the team itself but rather the players on it. I'm from Boston but live in Houston and I don't root for them every year if i don't like their roster.
That's right Avrl, put Johnny in his place, big Bob energy
It was sochu not soju
mald
FREE HONG KONG! FREE UYGHURS!
Reinforce really dislikes Jaws. You can feel it 🤣
Not that I blame him 🤣
What makes you say that?
Stop trying to invent drama.
?
15 minutes of them talking about nothing but themselves drunk at a wedding like some high school kids.....and here I thought they were adults. People are here for OWL and OW not childish escapades.
False. I am here for the shenanigans.
If the APAC teams drop out of OWL does the league finally fold?