Hey I just want to comment to everybody viewing and reading I've been donated to Ivan on patreon a very small amount every month for a couple of years now and I wish more of you would do so He very rarely mentions it but come on guys everybody pitch and help this man out...
Professional thieves aren't going to bother with a 2012 chevy, I doubt they would even bother with a brand new one. The only thief who might be interested is the repo man.
People in connecticut where I live steal anything sadly, even 03 honda accords, not my area particularly but New haven, Hamden, Waterbury, Hartford, and most recently West Haven!!
For everyone wondering about the CKP code and why Ivan didn't bother with it: this car had already been fixed by Ivan in previous videos, it had other issues. The CKP code never prevented the car from starting, it was running fine :) Although I think the CKP code might have been a sign that the PCM would soon crap itself, I don't think it necessarily has to do with the alarm. Great job as always Ivan! PS. It's interesting that I can't find the previous videos about this car 🤣
Be careful with that P0615 code and assuming the ground is fine since it cranks. I just did a diag on a 2011 Silverado crank no-start that had that code along with a transfer case control unit no-comm code. I finally narrowed it down to a bad ground on the starter relay control circuit. Engine had been swapped out and someone stuck the ground bolt in a hole down on the bottom of the engine block that had no threads in it. So, bad ground, yet the engine still cranked! I properly attached the two ground wires and the truck started and ran and the transfer case module no-comm was gone, as was the P0615. It took me a while to figure it out because I didn't suspect a bad ground either since the truck cranked good and strong.
They work really hard to find the problem exactly but make it seem so easy for us so hard work good Job bro this guy has Patient a lot that’s. Number one. Power and ground signal’s always check first fuel pressure
never never never install one of those things. I bought a car for my mother that had an aftermarket alarm...if it didn't drain the battery overnight, it would leave her stranded at the grocery store. several tearful phone calls. ended up paying an aftermarket stereo installer to rip the damn thing out and then no more problems after. all for a car no one would want to steal anyways
Hire a professional like myself and use Viper alarm systems. Do not use those iDatalinnk, whatever they call it. I have done 4 installs with no issues, 2007 Honda Odyssey, 2008 Honda accord EXL & 2007 Acura MDX, Nissan Altima 2015, no issues at all. Just do proper install and wire the correct wires.
regarding the wipers - there is a recall for the wipers on GMC terrain and Chevrolet equinox. i'm sure a vin check would reveal that. My former spouce's vehicle had a recall. Typically, this problem is correlated to people running the wipers when there is a ton of snow on the windshield or the wipers are frozen in place and it wasn't cleared first.
Learned the hard way with an aftermarket remote starter. This was even a dealer installed Ford unit. It just died one day. Fortunately, it was still under warranty and covered!
Around here where I live they steal anything that's left running. Bumbs, thugs, etc always jacking them then we go do new keys. We even have 6th graders around here that steal them, beat the crap out of them for 2 weeks then when they've ridden & beat it enough they smash it, throw keys in bushes or wherever they can get rid of them so police can't arrest them as if no key in possession then even harder to haul them in.
Ivan, it's clear that 3.8 volts coming from the PCM to pin 85 on the starter relay was not enough voltage to cause the relay to click on, but the PCM is monitoring the voltage on that starter relay control wire (relay terminal 85) and is not happy that this voltage is much above 0v when the starter relay is not on. But what about that removed alarm is now causing the PCM to put out that 3.8v? There must be a bias voltage on that line coming from the PCM, so that the PCM can tell when that voltage is being pulled down by the ground that's going thru the starter relay solenoid when not in use (a constant ground anyway). It's as if the bias voltage is no longer a weak bias, but is an actual strong 3.8v. Or the transistor on the starter control (power) wire is partially stuck on, and is leaking some voltage thru the transistor. This is likely a wire they cut (and later repaired) so the aftermarket alarm could interrupt the starter when it wants to. I would like to have seen a voltage measurement on this wire with the starter relay unplugged. Anyway, how could an alarm disrupting this starter control (power) wire damage that starter relay transistor in the PCM, causing it to partially flow voltage?
I trouble shooted a 14 sierra today no crank with a p0615 code. Ran through the motions testing the starter circuit. Got very hung up over the fact that the positive trigger for the starter relay has a 12v output without the relay in the socket and the relay wasn't engaging when I would put it back into the terminal. When you put the relay in it goes to 0 I tested the output. So the ecm throws that code by sending a such a limited amount of current that it cannot activate the relay but it detects the load of the relay. That's how it manages to throw that code and monitor that relay. In my case the relay did go to 12v and trigger properly the starter is just dead. It came from a car dealership down the street with an in house mechanic so I figured they would have checked the basics. I came to the conclusion the code was from them pulling the relay to check the I/Os. It goes 12 at the starter and no crank. C'mon guys.... 🤦I hope the ECM solved your problem though! I just wanted to comment on a situation in which I did find an in-between to what you said about that output only existing in an on and off state. The finality of it is that it does only exist in that state. But it seems there is positive output even though the key is simply turned on and not to crank.
This is what ended up being my problem on the 2003 Impala I emailed you about with the fried BCM's. It would intermittently just go dead when you tried to crank or upon shutting the car off. (completely dead, no headlights, no horn, no life). Sometimes you could reset it by disconnecting the battery. The PCM itself was never blown, it would just fry the BCM's (went through 6 of them). When you turn the key the "code/key" stored on the BCM has to match the code/key on the PCM. When they match it allows the engine to start. If there is a fault with the PCM circuitry it won't allow that. In my case the whole BCM system would get fried. (this is not confirmed but my theory). One way around this was to turn the key and wait a couple of seconds so the signal could get be processed by the PCM (my theory is there was a delay in the signal). I managed to find a new PCM for $120 and it's easy to install so I had nothing to lose by throwing a part at it. I've spent over $3000 over the years dealing with this problem. I had nothing to lose. Another sign that the PCM is old and failing is when the lights in the dash dim when the car is switching on the auto-headlights. You'll notice a slight dip in brightness. So I put in the new PCM and did the GM re-learn procedure to get key/code from the BCM to the PCM. Once they are paired (like a lock and key) you can crank it. It's been working just fine for 1yr now. Thanks for your channel, I've learned a lot. 😀Can't wait for the Christmas special!
Of course the perfect solution is to not bother installing an aftermarket alarm in the first place, particularly on an 8 year old depreciated American POS.
@@buckhorncortez Most 8 year old (and newer) Japaneses cars have their own anti-theft alarm system from the factory. As do many GMs. But if you look at the list of frequently stolen vehicles, they are rarely your standard Chevy. Actually Hondas and Toyotas are among the top brand stolen because they are deisreable brands and could be sold or auctioned off for a lot of money (more than most American made cars of the same age). I would think if they were complete POS people wouldln't want them, and people would be begging someone to steal their car so they can get paid by the insurance company and go buy something else. But apparently a lot of "imports" like Toyotas and Hondas are stolen each year. here you go: www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2019/11/19/are-you-driving-one-of-the-most-stolen-cars-in-the-us/?sh=520b7343beef The only Chevy's I see on there are trucks, which trucks are commonly stolen regardless of brand.
When I saw the 3.8V I was thinking something was still spliced in to that circuit, or maybe wires crossed when alarm removed. A lot of GMs will cut fuel if they see the starter active when it shouldn't be, for example when you did the test light bypass test, if the engine was running it would stall at that point.
There was a windshield wiper recall on those vehicles. If you don't pay attention and install the new wiper setup properly, that's what happens. The wipers are basically sitting in the wrong position on the cogs.
I have a craptiva in the shop with the dreaded 2.4 gdi. Same two codes, but the p0315 was solved with a relearn. So yeah, the engine cranks, starts, and immediately dies. The p0615 code never clears, and the engine then cranks and doesn't start at all. And it did start before yet stopped cranking (probably a bad starter/weak battery/both, fixed that and it cranks normal now), after a lot of poking around and finding everything in working order the engine fired up, on a whim I guess, when I cranked it just because and it ran great, I did some more poking and scanning and everything was fine did a ckp variation relearn and it cleared the p0315 code and the p0615 as well so I was confused yet happy, until I shut it off and it was a crank/no-start again and the p0615 came back...
Really interesting. PCM was the most likely cause of that weird voltage but just to be absolutely 100% sure (because condemning modules makes me nervous), I would've either depinned that wire form the PCM or cut it just to make SURE the 4V was coming from the PCM and not from the other direction. As unlikely as that would've been.
@@tetttettamilli6761 amp clamp can theoretically, but the amperage would be very small. Probably smaller than an amp clamp can read. I've always found cutting a wire and then repairing it is better and not a huge deal.
Where was all the hacked wiring?? My first thought was the starter circuit was modified to bypass the computer to get it crank. I was also thinking the 3.8v was a result of the wiring mods, not the computer. Great Job, Ivan!
It wasn't just the starter relay that needed to be changed. The most important thing is to bypass the immobilizer! How was this implemented? This was removed later or left ...
@@engeneer_ru5827 Exactly. If the aftermarket alarm/remote starter was wired, but the immobilizer wasn’t bypassed, I figured the starter circuit would be the next attack. Of course that wouldn’t accomplish anything other than forcing the starter. It would seem likely the next obvious direction. If the alarm was sending a start signal, but the computer & BCM didn’t see a valid key nothing would happen. And that’s why I think the starter circuit got butchered.
@@ecaparts In my country, they love remote launch. Since the climate is cold. Immobilizer bypass - hide the ignition key in the car and take the transponder signal from it. How is this done in US?
This is an interesting failure mode. The testing shows that ECM can put 12V to pin and activate the starter relay and that there are 0V at the pin after it has been cranked. So the ECM is also able to disable the starter relay. Only on startup it shows 3.8V. It would be my guess that the ECM has to go to sleep (time out) for that 3.8V to reappear. I would guess that, when the ECM tri-states it's output the driver is not properly put in an off-state. I would expect the ECM to be intact and there only be a failure in der output driver (that switches the 12V to that wire, and consequently to the starter relay control side). I'd love to see that ECM opened up and the driver circuitry inspected to see if my guess goes in the right direction. I would (and my guess would be: other viewer too) love to know how the after marker anti-theft device is hooked up. If it is anywhere near the starter relay control circuit and thus could be involved in the ECMs untimely demise. Update: The Blade AL CM-900 is apparently not an alarm system but a remote start. If I understand that correctly it is wired in parallel with the ignition switch. I can't see how that could damage the ECM if correctly installed.
@pinehollowautodiagnostics. Check in your bcm the module identifider is unknown. Each module needs to have an identifier in each module. Looks like a bcm is on the floor. You need to have the bcm setup after programming that will set the module identifier
Well if i see a new module on the ground i would suspect that it may not have been programmed correctly. The programming wouldnt be a parts cannon, would be cheaper than putting an ecm in. That setup on the bcm is key and if that doesnt work. An ecm would be the next fix
Hi, my Honda 2006 after clutch repair has the P0615 code but it starts and runs fine. I do not think the ECM is faulty. No other codes present, runs like brand new car. But still can not find the fault. Any ideas? Thanks.
What could be my problem? Starter stays running forever. fuses and grounds test out fine. purple and white wire read 0v with key in off and forward position. and 10v when cranking do i need a starter?
Hi Ivan, I have that auto start feature in my car too. When I turn the key to the start position it starts cranking and I let go of the key it continues to crank until it starts up.
Do GM vehicles have a "winter" wiper mode or a wiper maintenance position? I had an old Acura Legend coupe that had a switch that would move the wipers up onto the glass so that they wouldn't get stuck in the cowl with packed snow. Some vehicles have a similar setting for replacing the blades, so that you can actually get to them.
Of course. If you have some sort of electronic problem definitely spray carburetor cleaner into a fuel injected engine. If that doesn't work, set the thing on fire
Oo ... Ivan thank you for sharing ... very good diagnosis and very clear way of thinking (we all have that "feeling" when we suspect and close to make the call - ECU faulty ... hahaha)
I was thinking that the pin 87 could have been shorted to pin 85 (either in the harness, in the fuse box or in the relay itself), causing the relay to latch itself. Your test at 14:46 debunks that possibility.
Have this same aftermarket unit (Compustar with Blade AI bypass module) and normally this is a remote starter. Yep they are China made but what isn't these days. Mine has worked flawlessly for 5 years...because the installer actually knew what they were doing and did it right. ECM on these is in the dumbest place on earth and just reeks of GM cost cutting. Amazing that more of them dont die from exposure to heat/cold/salt/moisture or just the outgassing of the flipping battery. Fun fact: The Buick Envision is assembled in China. Then shipped to the US for sale. Guy/Gal who owned this is lucky. They simply replaced the PCM and the engine cranked. From sound it looks to be the infamous Ecotec 2.4l that eats oil until it seizes or the PCV system freezes and blows out the rear main seal.
So if an eight year old car like that needs a new computer is that an economical fix? How much would that cost to have done at the dealer? The car can’t be worth much
It seems to me your ignition switch is shot. But it’s the security system engaged. That is likely the problem. This is why we shouldn’t add on aftermarket security systems. They don’t always get along with factory computers. 🤷🏻♂️
Mr Pine I visited your Amazon store and looking at the test light I don't see the test light featured and your videos all the time and can you give me a link tell me where you got the test light from for the cars
I doubt the injectors will open at 2200 psi fuel pressure , this is not a diesel car . The new BMWs maybe will open them at this pressure , but highly doubt that this car will also . Most of the time the idle is somewhere at 750 psi , just for reference
Hi, I have had a similar problem with the Chevrolet Cruze for a week, after replacing the battery, even the starter does not spin, I can not find wiring duagrams. Best regards👍
It wasn’t just an alarm system . It was a remote start/ alarm system they had installed. The funny thing is that I install a aftermarket remote start alarm system in every car that I have owned never had any problems with any of them . And I have had a lot of cars and trucks all with aftermarket remote start alarm systems never any issues... must have been the installer for this equinox. Or just a fluke and the computer was gonna crap out anyway
It's alot like doing diagnostics on the electronics in a car. If you know what your doing and connect your aftermarket junk (tools) correctly it almost seems like the car was made to work with the tools. But if you screw up because you don't know what your doing, the tools become the junk you weren't supposed to use with the car.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics yeah but, i just can`t see the benefit of that. You still put the key in, you still have to start cranking manually.... If it was keyless system, then ok. But, you know, it`s a GM, it may crank for a while
@@Prakicov That's been the case for a long time, I know the Aztek I used to have worked that way. Bump the key and it keeps cranking until it fires up. My first thought when I saw it cranking nonstop was a dead ECM.
You didn't try a new starter relay previously? Also with the relay unplugged you had that voltage without turning key to 50? Which is the correlation with ckp learning fault? Could have been interesting to confirm engine speed while cranking. Great job and good learning tips! Thanks!!
@@badboytommy187 🤣🤣🤣 I think we all do! Just weird cases.... or sometimes someone introduced additional issues, so things are compounded. Interesting to peel back layers.... what came 1st. Etc
@pinehollowautodiagnostics heres a description and operation out of the manual from gm: Various modules throughout the vehicle learn a specific environment identifier during the module programming process. The environment identifier is learned by each individual module and matches the environment identifier stored in the BCM. Prior to starting after a battery disconnect, each of the modules which store a environment identifier will compare their identifier to that of the identifier stored in the BCM. If all the identifiers match, the engine starting process will continue. If the environment identifiers do not match, engine starting will be disabled.
I Have driven School Bus. Since 1993. In 2006 we got 6 brand new international busses, a year later they started to have issues, they would shut down and not start. Found a branch tube that was cracking in the engine. International replaced them under warranty. We had one of them that still wouldn’t start after the fix. They tried for weeks and nothing. Finally at a mechanics mandatory meeting for all the terminals, a tech from international was there conducting the 3 day meeting, our mechanics approach the tech, told him the issue with this bus. The tech said every try replacing the computer? No. So they went to one of the other ones in the same year and pulled the computer out and stuck it in that bus, fired right up. Found the problem, computer went bad. Ordered a new computer from international, had to take it with one of the other busses from the same year/group to the international dealer and they had to program that new computer. Worked fine from that day on.
My advice: Don't install Aftermarket Alarms in modern cars...You'll have a high chance of damaging sensitive electronic circuits...If you're still concerned of possible Thief, connect a low tech hidden series switch to the fuel pump. The computer will see the pump as a failed "Open" and should not cause any permanent harm to systems.
You have more patience than me man. I don’t take cars that’s been messed with like that by an owner.. those aftermarket things from eBay and Amazon are just begging for trouble on modern vehicles- I send them straight to the dealer w/no love from me because I can almost guarantee you they screwed something major up trying to follow Chinese directions translated into broken English or created a giant rats nest for me I’m not even going to bother dealing with- not to mention the quality of the component itself- the component could be/probably is built totally wrong and sends who knows how many volts where, when, and how.. 😂
For the price of that POS aftermarket alarm , the shop , PHAD , the dealer and computer , possible towing - had to be well over $ 1000.00 . On these late models , it's taking a huge gamble . I am surprised they had the dealer do the computer and programming . Maybe they are looking to bail on it and get a warranty . Unless there is a written warranty and a place to return it , it's insane to put this crap in a late model vehicle . Who are you going to sue in China ? And it may only be limited to the cost of the alarm . No consequential damages . Great diagnosis .
Why you didn’t address the P0315 “CKP variation not learned “? This could have been the crank no start problem. If someone disconnected the battery for a long period to remove the alarm that correlation between the CKP and the ECM was lost.
I had some after market wiring done on a new truck, for lights, shorted out after a few months blew the computer,my luck it was still under 3yrs from GM, they fixed it for free, 3grand
Great job. Just one observation. I get that you were trying to diagnose based on the DTCs... However from your data pids, we didn't have injector and you also mentioned that the shop used some starting fluid and it fired up. I was just curious on why you didn't go after injector feeds and controls, which most likely would have gotten you to the same call of a bad engine computer, as I'm sure either one of the injector feed or control would have been missing. Either ways great job.
Ivan, a couple of points: I'm not the only one to mention this, but what's the cause of the zero injector pulse width? Any chance that's related to the crankshaft position sensor code? And you felt the 3.something voltage on the starter relay control wire was suspicious, but couldn't that just be the ECM strategy for testing the relay circuit continuity and relay resistance?
Great question Graham! That voltage was coming from the PCM itself, and I forgot to show that it dropped to 0V when I disconnected the bulk connector. Something got really fried in the magic box haha
That's exactly what that voltage was He was incorrect in that the voltage is SUPPOSED to be there That's the bias voltage to test that the relay circuit has a path to ground would love e to have seen it start........... Kind of a weird video in that the problem was not shown to be solved
I know it is a lot cheaper to install those aftermarket stuff , you better off going to the dealer sometines,it is so easy to install gm remote start,all you need is a new hood latch ,and some programming,I install them less than one hour
Quickly approaching the 100k sub mark. That's fantastic! The content has been getting better & better and more consistent! Well deserved Ivan!🥳👏🏻😊🤗 This is a heck of a problem. Did the aftermarket somehow corrupt software? Allow the battery get too low? I agree with your process so far, powers & grounds at PCM.... the other thing that bothers me* is the lack of injector pulse. Does that crank sensor code have anything to do with that issue? 🤔🤔
@@remingtonbaker3376 tach means there's a signal, not necessarily a good signal. It must be within a certain threshold for the PCM to be happy... but can easily bounce a needle. Oops. Totally misunderstood the comment. Tach in... on the alarm module. I see. But only for remote start is that applicable. We don't know the extent of install.
@@CubasAutomotive I just saw the tach input and the lack of injector pulse and thought maybe they damaged the crank sensor wiring. I hadn't finished the video yet.
Иван, привет! Ну согласись, ты не справедливо назвал ПРОБЛЕМОЙ, сделанную в Китае вещь! К примеру, твой сканер, сделан в Китае. Он тебе нравится... -------------- Совсем не понятно, почему на 16:28, на сканере - Immobilizer Security Code Accepted - NO. Это выглядит странно!
Hey I just want to comment to everybody viewing and reading I've been donated to Ivan on patreon a very small amount every month for a couple of years now and I wish more of you would do so He very rarely mentions it but come on guys everybody pitch and help this man out...
Same thing here, I've been a Patreon sub for a long time. The knowledge gained from his videos is definitely worth the $. Glad to do it.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!! It is truly appreciated! :)
The Anti Theft Alarm certainly worked on this one, rendered it immoveable .
Hilarious 😂🤣
Professional thieves aren't going to bother with a 2012 chevy, I doubt they would even bother with a brand new one. The only thief who might be interested is the repo man.
It's not just an alarm system, it's a remote start, that explains how it screwed up the start circuit. (6:11 On the sticker, pin 6 +12V Starter)
People in connecticut where I live steal anything sadly, even 03 honda accords, not my area particularly but New haven, Hamden, Waterbury, Hartford, and most recently West Haven!!
It's not that they steal the car, they break in to steal what you leave in it
So much for aftermarket trash. Customer generated problems. Good job Ivan!!
For everyone wondering about the CKP code and why Ivan didn't bother with it: this car had already been fixed by Ivan in previous videos, it had other issues. The CKP code never prevented the car from starting, it was running fine :)
Although I think the CKP code might have been a sign that the PCM would soon crap itself, I don't think it necessarily has to do with the alarm.
Great job as always Ivan!
PS. It's interesting that I can't find the previous videos about this car 🤣
Same make and models but it don’t look like it’s the same car has before. The videos on the different Equinox’s are up.
Be careful with that P0615 code and assuming the ground is fine since it cranks. I just did a diag on a 2011 Silverado crank no-start that had that code along with a transfer case control unit no-comm code. I finally narrowed it down to a bad ground on the starter relay control circuit. Engine had been swapped out and someone stuck the ground bolt in a hole down on the bottom of the engine block that had no threads in it. So, bad ground, yet the engine still cranked! I properly attached the two ground wires and the truck started and ran and the transfer case module no-comm was gone, as was the P0615. It took me a while to figure it out because I didn't suspect a bad ground either since the truck cranked good and strong.
Very interesting!
Was the bolt tight without threads? Im dealing with the same issue and I suspect a swaped engine.
Your CM-900 Blade is properly installed when the parking lights flash twice and a whisp of smoke emanates from the ECU.
Tidy little diag Ivan. Your confidence is inspiring. Thanks!
i'd like to see the wiring repairs from when that alarm was removed. it cant be good
They work really hard to find the problem exactly but make it seem so easy for us so hard work good
Job bro this guy has
Patient a lot that’s. Number one. Power and ground signal’s always check first fuel pressure
never never never install one of those things. I bought a car for my mother that had an aftermarket alarm...if it didn't drain the battery overnight, it would leave her stranded at the grocery store. several tearful phone calls. ended up paying an aftermarket stereo installer to rip the damn thing out and then no more problems after. all for a car no one would want to steal anyways
Hire a professional like myself and use Viper alarm systems. Do not use those iDatalinnk, whatever they call it. I have done 4 installs with no issues, 2007 Honda Odyssey, 2008 Honda accord EXL & 2007 Acura MDX, Nissan Altima 2015, no issues at all. Just do proper install and wire the correct wires.
Ivan scores another victory. Merry Christmas Ivan and your wife. Hope you have a great holiday. Dont work to hard👍🇨🇦
regarding the wipers - there is a recall for the wipers on GMC terrain and Chevrolet equinox. i'm sure a vin check would reveal that. My former spouce's vehicle had a recall. Typically, this problem is correlated to people running the wipers when there is a ton of snow on the windshield or the wipers are frozen in place and it wasn't cleared first.
Learned the hard way with an aftermarket remote starter. This was even a dealer installed Ford unit. It just died one day. Fortunately, it was still under warranty and covered!
Great video Ivan, people dont steal those cars. A simple cutoff switch is all it needs if any.
Around here where I live they steal anything that's left running. Bumbs, thugs, etc always jacking them then we go do new keys. We even have 6th graders around here that steal them, beat the crap out of them for 2 weeks then when they've ridden & beat it enough they smash it, throw keys in bushes or wherever they can get rid of them so police can't arrest them as if no key in possession then even harder to haul them in.
Was the owner really worried about somebody stealing that wonderful gem of an automobile? doesn't it have a factory alarm?
Yes those have an alarm or at least an imobilizer. Plus he has a regular key versus a pushbutton starter, which are sometimes easier to steal.
@@HR-wd6cw sure why would they install another one aswell with a normal key it would be harder
It's not just an alarm system, it's a remote start, that explains how it screwed up the start circuit. (6:11 On the sticker, pin 6 +12V Starter)
@@bradnoyes7955 aftermarket remote start systems are always a terrible idea. You have to hack into the immobilizer. You're just asking for trouble
@@kevinbarry71 I don't disagree, but it explains why it was installed in that POS, they weren't worried about theft.
Kudos for thinking deep into this issue. Diagnose Dan would approve.
Did new computer fix the wipers parking in that odd position as well?
Separate problem...
Ivan, it's clear that 3.8 volts coming from the PCM to pin 85 on the starter relay was not enough voltage to cause the relay to click on, but the PCM is monitoring the voltage on that starter relay control wire (relay terminal 85) and is not happy that this voltage is much above 0v when the starter relay is not on. But what about that removed alarm is now causing the PCM to put out that 3.8v?
There must be a bias voltage on that line coming from the PCM, so that the PCM can tell when that voltage is being pulled down by the ground that's going thru the starter relay solenoid when not in use (a constant ground anyway). It's as if the bias voltage is no longer a weak bias, but is an actual strong 3.8v. Or the transistor on the starter control (power) wire is partially stuck on, and is leaking some voltage thru the transistor.
This is likely a wire they cut (and later repaired) so the aftermarket alarm could interrupt the starter when it wants to. I would like to have seen a voltage measurement on this wire with the starter relay unplugged. Anyway, how could an alarm disrupting this starter control (power) wire damage that starter relay transistor in the PCM, causing it to partially flow voltage?
So the aftermarket alarm caused the ecm to fail? or would it have happened anyway? will never know.
Coincidence. Or wrong connection.
Great question! Wish I knew. Didn't have time to get into the aftermarket wiring schematics haha
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Так провода от сигнализации остались в машине?
How was it installed? The old "twist'n'tape" method, running over some sharp edges?
I trouble shooted a 14 sierra today no crank with a p0615 code. Ran through the motions testing the starter circuit. Got very hung up over the fact that the positive trigger for the starter relay has a 12v output without the relay in the socket and the relay wasn't engaging when I would put it back into the terminal. When you put the relay in it goes to 0 I tested the output. So the ecm throws that code by sending a such a limited amount of current that it cannot activate the relay but it detects the load of the relay.
That's how it manages to throw that code and monitor that relay. In my case the relay did go to 12v and trigger properly the starter is just dead. It came from a car dealership down the street with an in house mechanic so I figured they would have checked the basics. I came to the conclusion the code was from them pulling the relay to check the I/Os. It goes 12 at the starter and no crank. C'mon guys.... 🤦I hope the ECM solved your problem though! I just wanted to comment on a situation in which I did find an in-between to what you said about that output only existing in an on and off state. The finality of it is that it does only exist in that state. But it seems there is positive output even though the key is simply turned on and not to crank.
This is what ended up being my problem on the 2003 Impala I emailed you about with the fried BCM's. It would intermittently just go dead when you tried to crank or upon shutting the car off. (completely dead, no headlights, no horn, no life). Sometimes you could reset it by disconnecting the battery. The PCM itself was never blown, it would just fry the BCM's (went through 6 of them). When you turn the key the "code/key" stored on the BCM has to match the code/key on the PCM. When they match it allows the engine to start. If there is a fault with the PCM circuitry it won't allow that. In my case the whole BCM system would get fried. (this is not confirmed but my theory). One way around this was to turn the key and wait a couple of seconds so the signal could get be processed by the PCM (my theory is there was a delay in the signal). I managed to find a new PCM for $120 and it's easy to install so I had nothing to lose by throwing a part at it. I've spent over $3000 over the years dealing with this problem. I had nothing to lose. Another sign that the PCM is old and failing is when the lights in the dash dim when the car is switching on the auto-headlights. You'll notice a slight dip in brightness. So I put in the new PCM and did the GM re-learn procedure to get key/code from the BCM to the PCM. Once they are paired (like a lock and key) you can crank it. It's been working just fine for 1yr now. Thanks for your channel, I've learned a lot. 😀Can't wait for the Christmas special!
Of course the perfect solution is to not bother installing an aftermarket alarm in the first place, particularly on an 8 year old depreciated American POS.
Totally OK, though, with an 8 year old, depreciated Japanese POS...right?
@@buckhorncortez Most 8 year old (and newer) Japaneses cars have their own anti-theft alarm system from the factory. As do many GMs. But if you look at the list of frequently stolen vehicles, they are rarely your standard Chevy. Actually Hondas and Toyotas are among the top brand stolen because they are deisreable brands and could be sold or auctioned off for a lot of money (more than most American made cars of the same age). I would think if they were complete POS people wouldln't want them, and people would be begging someone to steal their car so they can get paid by the insurance company and go buy something else. But apparently a lot of "imports" like Toyotas and Hondas are stolen each year.
here you go: www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2019/11/19/are-you-driving-one-of-the-most-stolen-cars-in-the-us/?sh=520b7343beef
The only Chevy's I see on there are trucks, which trucks are commonly stolen regardless of brand.
I’m thinking that the crank variation not learned could that cause a crank no start
Nah it's a GM thing for misfire detection :)
The crank variation relearn is done with the engine running.
When I saw the 3.8V I was thinking something was still spliced in to that circuit, or maybe wires crossed when alarm removed.
A lot of GMs will cut fuel if they see the starter active when it shouldn't be, for example when you did the test light bypass test, if the engine was running it would stall at that point.
Great point! I forgot to show that when the PCM was unplugged, the voltage dropped to 0V :)
Ivan, you, sir, are a master diagnostician!
There was a windshield wiper recall on those vehicles. If you don't pay attention and install the new wiper setup properly, that's what happens. The wipers are basically sitting in the wrong position on the cogs.
I have a craptiva in the shop with the dreaded 2.4 gdi. Same two codes, but the p0315 was solved with a relearn. So yeah, the engine cranks, starts, and immediately dies. The p0615 code never clears, and the engine then cranks and doesn't start at all. And it did start before yet stopped cranking (probably a bad starter/weak battery/both, fixed that and it cranks normal now), after a lot of poking around and finding everything in working order the engine fired up, on a whim I guess, when I cranked it just because and it ran great, I did some more poking and scanning and everything was fine did a ckp variation relearn and it cleared the p0315 code and the p0615 as well so I was confused yet happy, until I shut it off and it was a crank/no-start again and the p0615 came back...
Really interesting. PCM was the most likely cause of that weird voltage but just to be absolutely 100% sure (because condemning modules makes me nervous), I would've either depinned that wire form the PCM or cut it just to make SURE the 4V was coming from the PCM and not from the other direction. As unlikely as that would've been.
Would using a volt meter, or amp clamp give possible voltage direction/origin?
@@tetttettamilli6761 amp clamp can theoretically, but the amperage would be very small. Probably smaller than an amp clamp can read. I've always found cutting a wire and then repairing it is better and not a huge deal.
Where was all the hacked wiring?? My first thought was the starter circuit was modified to bypass the computer to get it crank. I was also thinking the 3.8v was a result of the wiring mods, not the computer. Great Job, Ivan!
It wasn't just the starter relay that needed to be changed. The most important thing is to bypass the immobilizer! How was this implemented? This was removed later or left ...
@@engeneer_ru5827 Exactly. If the aftermarket alarm/remote starter was wired, but the immobilizer wasn’t bypassed, I figured the starter circuit would be the next attack. Of course that wouldn’t accomplish anything other than forcing the starter. It would seem likely the next obvious direction. If the alarm was sending a start signal, but the computer & BCM didn’t see a valid key nothing would happen. And that’s why I think the starter circuit got butchered.
@@ecaparts In my country, they love remote launch. Since the climate is cold. Immobilizer bypass - hide the ignition key in the car and take the transponder signal from it. How is this done in US?
This is an interesting failure mode. The testing shows that ECM can put 12V to pin and activate the starter relay and that there are 0V at the pin after it has been cranked. So the ECM is also able to disable the starter relay. Only on startup it shows 3.8V. It would be my guess that the ECM has to go to sleep (time out) for that 3.8V to reappear. I would guess that, when the ECM tri-states it's output the driver is not properly put in an off-state. I would expect the ECM to be intact and there only be a failure in der output driver (that switches the 12V to that wire, and consequently to the starter relay control side). I'd love to see that ECM opened up and the driver circuitry inspected to see if my guess goes in the right direction.
I would (and my guess would be: other viewer too) love to know how the after marker anti-theft device is hooked up. If it is anywhere near the starter relay control circuit and thus could be involved in the ECMs untimely demise.
Update: The Blade AL CM-900 is apparently not an alarm system but a remote start. If I understand that correctly it is wired in parallel with the ignition switch. I can't see how that could damage the ECM if correctly installed.
**IF correcly installed** ;)
@pinehollowautodiagnostics. Check in your bcm the module identifider is unknown. Each module needs to have an identifier in each module. Looks like a bcm is on the floor. You need to have the bcm setup after programming that will set the module identifier
Interesting. Still wouldn't explain that 4V on the relay control right?
Well if i see a new module on the ground i would suspect that it may not have been programmed correctly. The programming wouldnt be a parts cannon, would be cheaper than putting an ecm in. That setup on the bcm is key and if that doesnt work. An ecm would be the next fix
Hi, my Honda 2006 after clutch repair has the P0615 code but it starts and runs fine. I do not think the ECM is faulty. No other codes present, runs like brand new car. But still can not find the fault. Any ideas? Thanks.
What could be my problem? Starter stays running forever. fuses and grounds test out fine. purple and white wire read 0v with key in off and forward position. and 10v when cranking do i need a starter?
Hi Ivan, I have that auto start feature in my car too. When I turn the key to the start position it starts cranking and I let go of the key it continues to crank until it starts up.
Do GM vehicles have a "winter" wiper mode or a wiper maintenance position? I had an old Acura Legend coupe that had a switch that would move the wipers up onto the glass so that they wouldn't get stuck in the cowl with packed snow. Some vehicles have a similar setting for replacing the blades, so that you can actually get to them.
Who would bother stealing a Chevy anyway!!😲
Of course. If you have some sort of electronic problem definitely spray carburetor cleaner into a fuel injected engine. If that doesn't work, set the thing on fire
That's quickly becoming the only fix on these newer GM cars, just set it on fire and hope the insurance adjuster takes mercy on you 😂
@@johnames6430 as an attorney who works for a major insurance company; I have to advise against that. I have sent people to prison
@@kevinbarry71 well the only alternative is to sue gm for selling us expensive junk....I don’t that will go very far....
@@kevinbarry71 ehh, they are letting people out of prison at this time due to COVID. Let ‘er burn. 🔥
@@jonnycando or, exercise good judgment and don't buy their products. All of my cars are Toyotas
Oo ... Ivan thank you for sharing ... very good diagnosis and very clear way of thinking
(we all have that "feeling" when we suspect and close to make the call - ECU faulty ... hahaha)
I was thinking that the pin 87 could have been shorted to pin 85 (either in the harness, in the fuse box or in the relay itself), causing the relay to latch itself. Your test at 14:46 debunks that possibility.
I love after market crap causing problems videos
Have this same aftermarket unit (Compustar with Blade AI bypass module) and normally this is a remote starter. Yep they are China made but what isn't these days. Mine has worked flawlessly for 5 years...because the installer actually knew what they were doing and did it right.
ECM on these is in the dumbest place on earth and just reeks of GM cost cutting. Amazing that more of them dont die from exposure to heat/cold/salt/moisture or just the outgassing of the flipping battery.
Fun fact: The Buick Envision is assembled in China. Then shipped to the US for sale.
Guy/Gal who owned this is lucky. They simply replaced the PCM and the engine cranked. From sound it looks to be the infamous Ecotec 2.4l that eats oil until it seizes or the PCV system freezes and blows out the rear main seal.
So if an eight year old car like that needs a new computer is that an economical fix? How much would that cost to have done at the dealer? The car can’t be worth much
hey, u cant say the antitheft didnt work!, another great electronic diag by u r sir
It seems to me your ignition switch is shot. But it’s the security system engaged. That is likely the problem. This is why we shouldn’t add on aftermarket security systems. They don’t always get along with factory computers. 🤷🏻♂️
Mr Pine
I visited your Amazon store and looking at the test light I don't see the test light featured and your videos all the time and can you give me a link tell me where you got the test light from for the cars
Hey Jim, it's under "electrical testing"...www.amazon.com/dp/B000M5ZWBA/?ref=exp_pinehollowautodiagnostics_dp_vv_d
I doubt the injectors will open at 2200 psi fuel pressure , this is not a diesel car . The new BMWs maybe will open them at this pressure , but highly doubt that this car will also . Most of the time the idle is somewhere at 750 psi , just for reference
Hi, I have had a similar problem with the Chevrolet Cruze for a week, after replacing the battery, even the starter does not spin, I can not find wiring duagrams. Best regards👍
Some good information on where to get wiring diagrams on South main Auto. Do a search on UA-cam South main Auto wiring diagrams.
TIS Chevrolet
everything is on the network ...
Cars are weird 😬. Nice diagnostics!
What about that crank sensor code? It would defenetly make a no start
Nah that's just the calibration you need to do once it's running ;)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics oh Great, thank you
In ur opinion.... did the remote car starter cause that? Or was it just coincidence? I’d say coincidence myself and I realize we may never no.
they can't handle any aftermarket stuff, I had a HID kit on my old impala which I believe screwed up the BCM and PCM
I had a similar problem on a blazer, it was the ignition switch. IGN 3 was only supplying 6 V to it's fuses
It wasn’t just an alarm system . It was a remote start/ alarm system they had installed. The funny thing is that I install a aftermarket remote start alarm system in every car that I have owned never had any problems with any of them . And I have had a lot of cars and trucks all with aftermarket remote start alarm systems never any issues... must have been the installer for this equinox. Or just a fluke and the computer was gonna crap out anyway
Agreed. I've seen so many hack R/S installs. Mine all go ok tho. Crazy.
It's alot like doing diagnostics on the electronics in a car. If you know what your doing and connect your aftermarket junk (tools) correctly it almost seems like the car was made to work with the tools. But if you screw up because you don't know what your doing, the tools become the junk you weren't supposed to use with the car.
The remote start/alarm system probably had nothing to do with the engine computer failure.
Wait, what ? PCM is in control of crank duration ?
Welcome to modern cars haha
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics yeah but, i just can`t see the benefit of that. You still put the key in, you still have to start cranking manually.... If it was keyless system, then ok. But, you know, it`s a GM, it may crank for a while
@@Prakicov That's been the case for a long time, I know the Aztek I used to have worked that way. Bump the key and it keeps cranking until it fires up. My first thought when I saw it cranking nonstop was a dead ECM.
Can I get a link to the yellow poke tool
You didn't try a new starter relay previously? Also with the relay unplugged you had that voltage without turning key to 50? Which is the correlation with ckp learning fault? Could have been interesting to confirm engine speed while cranking.
Great job and good learning tips! Thanks!!
I would love to see the footage you put the new computer in ! It is a good call but I still like to see it .
The shop had the dealer install it. It's posted at the end of the vid.
@@CubasAutomotive Love to see your video footage. Also I noticed that you always get those crazy vehicles to work with 😯
@@badboytommy187 🤣🤣🤣 I think we all do! Just weird cases.... or sometimes someone introduced additional issues, so things are compounded. Interesting to peel back layers.... what came 1st. Etc
It would of been cheaper to leave it alone a ECU isn't cheap
Awesome fuel saving option... keep injectors offline😜
i'm having the same problem with my citroen relay. been at the garage for three weeks.
@pinehollowautodiagnostics heres a description and operation out of the manual from gm: Various modules throughout the vehicle learn a specific environment identifier during the module programming process. The environment identifier is learned by each individual module and matches the environment identifier stored in the BCM. Prior to starting after a battery disconnect, each of the modules which store a environment identifier will compare their identifier to that of the identifier stored in the BCM. If all the identifiers match, the engine starting process will continue. If the environment identifiers do not match, engine starting will be disabled.
yes I wonder if a quick battery disconnect would get this car to start at least one more time.
looking for turn signal flasher or fuse
You didn't mention the fact that the original faults included Crank position not learned. I thought that was strange.
Also, no injector pulse.
That was from a battery disconnect
What kind of scanner is that?
With nowadays cars(2000 or newer) never fit Aftermarket crap. Lesson learned.
So was the computer the problem ?
I Have driven School Bus. Since 1993. In 2006 we got 6 brand new international busses, a year later they started to have issues, they would shut down and not start. Found a branch tube that was cracking in the engine. International replaced them under warranty. We had one of them that still wouldn’t start after the fix. They tried for weeks and nothing.
Finally at a mechanics mandatory meeting for all the terminals, a tech from international was there conducting the 3 day meeting, our mechanics approach the tech, told him the issue with this bus. The tech said every try replacing the computer? No. So they went to one of the other ones in the same year and pulled the computer out and stuck it in that bus, fired right up.
Found the problem, computer went bad. Ordered a new computer from international, had to take it with one of the other busses from the same year/group to the international dealer and they had to program that new computer. Worked fine from that day on.
Can it be a bad battery?
My advice: Don't install Aftermarket Alarms in modern cars...You'll have a high chance of damaging sensitive electronic circuits...If you're still concerned of possible Thief, connect a low tech hidden series switch to the fuel pump. The computer will see the pump as a failed "Open" and should not cause any permanent harm to systems.
You have more patience than me man. I don’t take cars that’s been messed with like that by an owner.. those aftermarket things from eBay and Amazon are just begging for trouble on modern vehicles- I send them straight to the dealer w/no love from me because I can almost guarantee you they screwed something major up trying to follow Chinese directions translated into broken English or created a giant rats nest for me I’m not even going to bother dealing with- not to mention the quality of the component itself- the component could be/probably is built totally wrong and sends who knows how many volts where, when, and how.. 😂
For the price of that POS aftermarket alarm , the shop , PHAD , the dealer and computer , possible towing - had to be well over $ 1000.00 . On these late models , it's taking a huge gamble . I am surprised they had the dealer do the computer and programming . Maybe they are looking to bail on it and get a warranty . Unless there is a written warranty and a place to return it , it's insane to put this crap in a late model vehicle . Who are you going to sue in China ? And it may only be limited to the cost of the alarm . No consequential damages . Great diagnosis .
Why you didn’t address the P0315 “CKP variation not learned “? This could have been the crank no start problem. If someone disconnected the battery for a long period to remove the alarm that correlation between the CKP and the ECM was lost.
It's learned with a scanner procedure once the car is RUNNING :)
Chevy installs the computer directly over the venting battery...nice. At least it's not a chrysler sebring remove tire and fender liner.
what is a good scope pico 4425a with mabe acer labtop or ?
I had some after market wiring done on a new truck, for lights, shorted out after a few months blew the computer,my luck it was still under 3yrs from GM, they fixed it for free, 3grand
Great job. Just one observation. I get that you were trying to diagnose based on the DTCs... However from your data pids, we didn't have injector and you also mentioned that the shop used some starting fluid and it fired up. I was just curious on why you didn't go after injector feeds and controls, which most likely would have gotten you to the same call of a bad engine computer, as I'm sure either one of the injector feed or control would have been missing. Either ways great job.
You must've shot this film in late 2011 right after it rolled off the lot cuz those things rarely make it past a couple months
Ivan, a couple of points: I'm not the only one to mention this, but what's the cause of the zero injector pulse width? Any chance that's related to the crankshaft position sensor code? And you felt the 3.something voltage on the starter relay control wire was suspicious, but couldn't that just be the ECM strategy for testing the relay circuit continuity and relay resistance?
Great question Graham! That voltage was coming from the PCM itself, and I forgot to show that it dropped to 0V when I disconnected the bulk connector. Something got really fried in the magic box haha
That's exactly what that voltage was
He was incorrect in that the voltage is SUPPOSED to be there
That's the bias voltage to test that the relay circuit has a path to ground
would love e to have seen it start...........
Kind of a weird video in that the problem was not shown to be solved
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics its supposed to do that.....
I know it is a lot cheaper to install those aftermarket stuff , you better off going to the dealer sometines,it is so easy to install gm remote start,all you need is a new hood latch ,and some programming,I install them less than one hour
Owner toasted his ecm with aftermarket junk. Smh...lol.
Owner toasted junk with junk. lol
Compustar CS900 Remote Start & Alarm, now includes free immobilizer*!
*Immobilizer cannot be disabled.
how can i get that all data ??
I would hire a 24 hr guard to protect this classic. LOL
Hahahaha great comment, made me laugh
Quickly approaching the 100k sub mark. That's fantastic! The content has been getting better & better and more consistent! Well deserved Ivan!🥳👏🏻😊🤗
This is a heck of a problem. Did the aftermarket somehow corrupt software? Allow the battery get too low? I agree with your process so far, powers & grounds at PCM.... the other thing that bothers me* is the lack of injector pulse. Does that crank sensor code have anything to do with that issue? 🤔🤔
Just got to the end... yeah... i see it needed a PCM. Heck of a call.
@@CubasAutomotive 6:13 tach in. Hmm.
@@remingtonbaker3376 tach means there's a signal, not necessarily a good signal. It must be within a certain threshold for the PCM to be happy... but can easily bounce a needle.
Oops. Totally misunderstood the comment. Tach in... on the alarm module. I see. But only for remote start is that applicable. We don't know the extent of install.
@@CubasAutomotive I just saw the tach input and the lack of injector pulse and thought maybe they damaged the crank sensor wiring. I hadn't finished the video yet.
Thanks Cuba! haha I felt like I was on Staten Island with this one...always hidden variables :)
Somebody let the magic smoke outta the brain box ;) You know how Eric O feels about aftermarket stuff..
Would you please tell me your scanner tools name and number. I live in Qatar
On UA-cam search pine hollow diagnostics launch 431x. Ivan does a review in the video of this tool and I think this is what he used in this video.
Link in the DESCRIPTION!
Check the engine control relay. If you pull it, the car will crank until you turn off key with no start. If anyone is having similar problems.
Иван, привет! Ну согласись, ты не справедливо назвал ПРОБЛЕМОЙ, сделанную в Китае вещь! К примеру, твой сканер, сделан в Китае. Он тебе нравится...
--------------
Совсем не понятно, почему на 16:28, на сканере - Immobilizer Security Code Accepted - NO. Это выглядит странно!
🍻😎🤙💯Thanks for the education 👍
I think this problem spark plugs or coils
The phone gps set up ground so if that been touched or bad it will cause that
After system was installed ok bad rear behind plastic u will find metal gps box next to it a ground point that needs fixed if they didn’t hook it up
I think you've said it before, Don't install after market accessory add on, this is what most likely will happen.
Lost the ECM on a 2014 Equinox. It was replaced under warranty.
Moral of the story: if you want an alarm, have the dealer do it.
buy a cheap GPS and hide it somewhere, if it's stolen you can track it.
@@johnames6430 Until it's loaded into a metal shipping container headed overseas.
@@killer2600 no point they can block the signal
@@neilmurphy845 Of course a shipping container blocks signals...The point of the shipping container is they actually ship the stolen cars overseas.
@@killer2600 no they do it at the house when they steal the car I heard
no crank no start we put a start in alternator and a new battery BUT STILL NOTHING PLEASE HELP BEFORE CHRISTMAS
Made in China that's the problem good one Ivan, Great video
Nothing strange in the diag but no injector pulse. Passes by engine rpm like it’s not even relevant ...
Aargh sorry definitely should have included that PID!!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics thanks for confirming it.
Putting in a alarm system that robbed you.
Ground in rear is bad stops car from starting