Sony A7III - HLG 3 vs S-LOG 3 - In a Lit Scenario
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2024
- Another test of Hybrid Log Gamma 3 versus S-Log 3. This time in a lit environment. I have singles, side by side, graded, ungraded and magnified for detail. The test is not scientific or extensive.
Instagram: sjeschke7
Twitter: @scottjeschke
Kodak 5219 T Lut - SLOG 2/ SLOG 3
Cut and graded in Final Cut Pro X
Please like, comment and subscribe.
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www.scottjeschke.com/luts/sj-luts-hlg-pp
You are seriously the only one talking about this. Hope your videos make some splash!
Super nice of you to say so! Hope so too.
Slog3 is provided on the A7 series mostly for compatibility. It was designed for 10 or 12 bit color spaces. With 8 bits, Slog3 will lose matrix area within representable Rec 709 after transformation unless you try to hue smash an unrealistically dynamic situation with nearest fit tone mapping for artistic effect. You should try the test with Slog2, which fits more ISO floor probablistic gamut / IFPG into these "low" 8 bits.
Good info! Thanks
This story about HLG 3 you're talking about is kind of revolutionary man! Many compliments! Following you with attention... ;-)
Wow! Glad to hear. Thanks Fabio! Really appreciate you following. More videos on the way.
Skin tones look great on the HLG 3, the picture quality looks a bit sharper to me on HLG 3, and the background looks buttery smooth. SLOG 3 doesn't look completely bad, it just looks more moody in my opinion with a slightly softer picture. Great video!
For the love of all that is good in this world, someone finally understands what I've been thinking about with Sony cameras for so long with these videos. Huge improvement in DR, colour, etc. Definitely trying HLG. Thanks for your detective work!
I kiss your feet Scott! I thought I was going crazy because I found out the same by accident! HLG looks SOOO nice!
Scott, I’m really enjoying the HLG 3 tutorials!!! You’ve really sparked a revolution!!!
Thanks!
Amazing! Thanks for sharing those tests! it's really a huge difference with the HLG3... I'm glued to you channel too!
Thanks for following!
Dude thank you for making a video about this. Now I actually know how I can test HLG for myself. This is mind-blowing
No problem! Thanks for watching!
Very nice video, for me HLG is the winner for sure.
Why did you choose hlg3 instead of hlg2? Any issues with noise? Also, could you explain why you changed black level?
Hi thanks for the upload. Question. DO you *have* to over expose the shot the way you did for the hlg3 to be optimal ? (i can see that freaking out my editor for weddings lol)
*edit and further to that, would that mean that your knee settings are relevant to this over exposure? (ie just keeping it at 100% would make sense for level 0 exposure then?) - hope that makes sense. cheers again
(edit *2 : subbed)
Hi, nope, just expose at 0. :) thanks!
Scott Jeschke cheers!
I did some of my own tests. The colours appeared quite artificial. On weddings etc i think ill stick to cine 2. Better for my shooters to see exactly what they are getting. But maybe ill use it for the odd high dynamic range shot outside in the sun occasionally. Cos im not a fan of slog (at least for crucial events)
Thank you for sharing your experiences with these PPS. The HLG footage seems to get more natural skin tones, at least to my eyes. Did you used the same post processing method and LUT for both HLG and S-log3?
Your picture profiles had some tweaking in colour depth?
The S-log 3 looks awkwardly flat and even noisy. The look of the HLG3 is impressive. I've added your setting to my camera and I'll be testing it out for sure.
WOW, the roll offs are amazing! Scott, if you don't mind, which Picture Profile did you use for HLG3 and Slog3?
PP10 for HLG3, but it doesn't matter since they're all customizable.
What's the difference between HLG2 and HLG 3?
OMG.... HLG3 is an absolutely game changer. It also allows us to shoot in low ISO which means 4 steps advantage for less noise and getting shallow DOF when filming under bright sunlight. Thanks for sharing test, great vid!
Thanks for watching!
A.F.O. (
The HLG3 tweaks you've done have so much more depth and dimension. Captures the highlights nicely.
Btw - what lens are you using for this demo?
Thanks! Just a cheap, canon 50mm. I'm saving for a nice sony 24-70.
Would love to see how you edit your footage with either Final Cut Pro or Premiere Pro to get your result :) or maybe the workflow from filming (camera settings) all the way up to end result :)
HLG3 looks a lot better. Thanks for the sharing!!
Really enjoying this series! Just recently picked up a 7III and am experimenting (and learning) about the Picture Profiles. I have to say the HLG looks a lot better to me. This may be a dumb question but would you recommend using it in all scenarios (well lit/dim lit scenes)?
Thanks! Not a dumb question. I'm actually trying to find that out for myself. i think it depends on how much work you want to put into post. Obviously if you don't want to do much grading, the cine and 709 profiles are ideal. When it comes to log though, this has been winning everytime for me. Working on a lowlight video now, and several others. Stay tuned.
I'm willing to sit there for days tweaking settings as that would help me develop my own style/colour grade. I'm very interested in what you discover with the low light. Just subscribed and will be waiting for you next video! Cheers!
Thanks for the tests! Just wondering how you gauge exposure when you’re shooting. It looks so funky how do you judge? Does gamma assist help in this case?
I haven't used gamma assist much because it makes the colors way too saturated. I've been using the meter that shows numbers and setting it around 0.0 or less. HLG seems to favor slight underexposure since you're exposing for the highlights. Still haven't played with the waveform on this. I miss the old canon bar style meters :/
Paul Voden FWIW it doesn’t look like that on camera, it will look like a regularly exposed shot. It’s only when you import it that you’ll see the funkyness you mention, so it’s pretty easy to expose for.
Very useful content. I subbed immediately. I've been searching for this comparison for a while now. Thank you!
Make a video of your color grading process please! :)
Dharnie Soriano thanks for watching! There's a video about my color process called "HLG3 Color conversion Demo" 😎
Thanks again man! I definitely learned alot from your videos. Btw, what color mode do you often use with HLG3?
HLG3 has some noise in shows. How do you managed to get rid of it? Will prime lens solve it?
I try to whenever I can shoot ISOs below 1600. Another big thing is just having a clean LUT. A lot can be done to reduce noise by having a good color curve in the blue channels, since that is where most of the noise comes from. Good curves in the shadows will also reduce noise. This doesn't have to be achieved with a lut though. It can be tweaked in any color tool. But honestly, I haven't had too many issues with HLG noise. HLG2 also has built-in noise reduction, which is a fine option if you need something straight out of camera.
I like both.
It’s interesting watching this whole HLG be rediscovered. There was a huge move towards It for GH5 when that came out.
I personally think you can get better results from Slog than your grade/CC shown here.
But that said the HLG does look good.
Agreed. When overexposed Slog can look decent.
Be careful overexposing slog, you’ll f up your skin tones...
I think considering Sony is using a 100mbps bitrate the HLG give more detail only because slog3 need higher bitrate to have all the data... slog3 image fall Appart.
Hey, great video, but am I missing something? Are you saying the shot at 2:25 is not over-exposed? It says exposure 0:0 in the settings screen. Thanks!
Correct. 0.0 is exposed. It appears overexposed prior to a rec 2020 to rec 709 conversion because the color gamut is not designed to be viewable on non HDR monitors.
I dream or the quality of the HLG after color grading is better?
Modern slog 3 in ten bit is best, but if you're using an A7iii or 8 bit cam, I found it that HLG was most flexible for getting vibrant and dense color
before I worked with cine 4
I just tested your settings on my a7c and WOW it gives a great result thanks man good job@@ScottJeschke
Duuude you're a life saver! Thank you for a great video!
Thanks for watching!
AMAZING! Thank you Scott
The 400% really is an eye opener. Thanks for sharing this info.
Hey... I'm a new subscriber and looking forward to joining you as you continue to test the A7III. Exciting stuff. I have the A7SII, A7II and A7. I need a better camera for video to go with my A7SII (A7II doesn't cut it) so I may get the A7III. JUST WONDERING, have you tested S-LOG 2? I'll never use Slog3 so I'm far more interested in your opinion of SLog2. Any experience with SLog2 on the A7III and any previously released Sony?
Norman Weichel thanks for subscribing! I have used S-Log 2, and to better results than S-Log 3. I'm still of the opinion that it's not great for detailed color fidelity and flexibility.. at least not at 8bit 4:2:0. I'm at the point w S-LOG where it takes way too much precision and alignment of variables to even get it close to where I need the end results. Part of why I'm heralding HLG3. It's doing everything I need it to within an 8bit 4:2:0 space.. with very impressive results
Scott Jeschke Yeah... that new HLG sounds really awesome. I actually record with a Ninja Flame when I shoot Log so I record 8-bit still obviously but 422 helps a lot and I have noticed a big improvement with using Prores or DNxHD as the codec. Because I dont have HLG3 I'm jealous haha. I find skin looks really smooth and natural using SLog2 vs the Cine 2 or 4 whereas skin typically looks too saturated and a bit rough.
Norman Weichel good to know. I'm hoping to get a flame soon. S-Log 2 in almost all cases makes more sense than S-Log 3. Sadly a lot of people bite the marketing bait of "more dynamic range" .. dynamic range becomes useless when an image loses all color and becomes duo tonal. In my opinion at least. It's not crazy to want both color and dynamic range. I think S-Log 2 provides plenty of dynamic range for just about any cinematic setting or scenario. The same goes for hlg.. which seems to be on par w slog 2 for dynamic range. Which is good enough for me.
Scott Jeschke Totally!! I actually find changing the color mode to PRO helps with the saturation.
Night and Day. Incredible.
Lemme preface this with the fact I’m a total newb. You made sLog look great but your HLG3 seemed a little crisp and real life feeling. It wasn’t that sLog looked bad, HLG3 looked better. Redundant, I know
Very interesting, I subscribed to your channel. What is the best way to expose for HLG 3?
Its great to see someone do all these tests, that are more geared towards narrative work, if HLG does come out with flying colors ( no pun intended ;) ) I feel like this could be the new " filmmakers discovering full frame on the 5D" moment.
Could be. Especially since it's still unclear if this backward compatibility was intended by Sony.
What Color Mode did you set on your HLG3 profile? The default one is BT.2020 which looks really odd in Premiere Pro, did you change it to 709?
Yeah, BT 2020. A couple of my other videos detail the conversion, but a generic log luts will bring it home in premier
Great that you are dining these test. HLG looks so much better so far! HLG is great for getting optimal exposure and low noise in photos as well. Read the dpreview for more info.
Thanks so much! I haven't tried it out for photos yet, but that's great to know! Thanks for watching. More to come!
HLG3 looks amazing. Very cinematic.
What a great result, im a complite novice just bought sony a7iii, a got the settings on your screen but where do i get that Kodak lut from? Would you walk me through it step by step d really appreciate!!! Regards from London U. K
hi scott, i somehow get harsher lighting when i test out with HLG compared with SLOG2, was there anything particular i might missed out on post? my HLG is using your settings though.
Omg wow. I have to try this!!! Great video!
great skintones with hlg3... so natural.... thanks for the great comparison bro
manjuko thank you!
I'm loving HLG at the moment. I've struggled with slog to bring back the depth of colors especially out on the water where I mainly shoot. But HLG is so rich with color. Oh and Make.Art.Now has the best low light settings for the A7iii. Check him out.
Yeah dude that were the best ever settings i never thought i could use iso5000 but after setting up that pp it now similar to iso 800. It was literally insane
HLG is Amazing bro, what a great job.
There is a chance to know where to get the lut used for grading that HLG?
What are the other settings in PP? Color Mode, Black Gamma, Color Phase, Color Depth? Also, what are the dual iso settings for HLG3 and SLOG3 for the A73?
can you please tell me which color mode you used? BT2020 or 709? Thank you!
Bt 2020 😊
Thank you!@@ScottJeschke
Hey, I recently tried this profile and ran into a few issues. First issue, because of the knee on this profile it appears zebras will never show set to 100%. Secondly with exposure set to 0 metered outdoor skin tones we're very compressed and the color was not recoverable. I have a theory on this, With the knee set as it is I believe under exposing around .5 to 1 stop will be ideal, This is pulling the skin tones away from that area. You have to do something similar on Cine gammas with a knee. Either way I look forward to your continued testing
HLG look so good, and esspecialy skin tone. Thank's for good video.
There is noticeably more digital noise in S-Log3 than ih HLG3 profile and also the skin tones looks more pleasing.
Where did your get the LUT? It looks really good!
FCMedia vision color, impulz collection
Definitely started messing around with HLG thanks to this channel....hoping to find the same potential that you have.
:)
great video man, u deserve more subs
I was bought your luts, but i have a question for you about HLG.
When i record, how i control Ev on your setting HLG. I have a need +1 or +2 like slog 3?
Thanks!
What color mode, color depths, and color phasee you using? Also, what is your range for black gamma range? Thanks!
just hearing about his. thanks. will keep watching. subbed. I got my camera a week ago. will play around with HLG
Thank you!
Cool video. Thanks!
Hi Man! Really interesting!!!
Scott, can you please tell what is the minimum ISO possible for shooting HLG?
Thank you so much for your videos!
Thanks for watching. So far anything under 800 starts tends to get banding. 800 gives a nice tight noise that keeps the image from being too glossy.
Scott , May I please ask ..
What are the best / correct Sony A7iii HLG3 Color Management Settings in DaVinci Resolve..?
I’m using a 5k retina IMac
Regards
Awesome video. Im still new to this so this was really helpful. How do I know which one is right for me?
Thanks so much! It depends on what kind of shooting you do, but generally speaking slog in 8bit is not great, because it doesn't have the color flexibility to bring back contrast and saturation. In general it's more difficult to work w if you're still figuring out the basics. I'd recommend HLG3 or Cine 2..bit in general I always reccomend testing. The best way to know what works for you is to test w the kinds of projects that you ultimately want to be shooting :)
@@ScottJeschke Hi Scott, thanks so much for replying. Im going to take your advice and go with HLG. What is the difference between HLG2 and HLG 3? I spent abit of time in the afternoon today watching comparisons between the picture profiles. I notice that cine didnt seem to expose as well as hlg. I did some test footage with HLG and it looks good. Mainly i just need something flexible to grade.
Also, you know how within each picture profile theres alot of settings such as gamma and black gamma. How important are those?
Thanks again! Love your channel
Hey man, great video! Do you know where I could find your Kodak 5219 T Lut - SLOG 2/ SLOG 3 ?
Thanks! Yeah, it's visioncolor Impulz pack
hey I am exactly experimietning that christian , what I notice is I also exposing a little bit before zebras 100%, and after postp the quality of the video its almost 0 noise. and less color grading needed and etc I really love it the HLG.
I was doing some tests too and you are right so far. The slog color even in color Pro, the skintones and blues are tilting to magenta, once you apply just a simple color correction (no luts) and compare that with hlg the difference is clear. Hlg has more true to life colors. And so far i can tell the dynamic range is usable in premiere pro whe you use the hdr mode in lumetri. What i do is i us HLG and color 709 because in theory that’s the obly way to color grading more accuarate cause my monitor does not support rec 2020. I will keep doing test and maybe i’ll post a video on my channel too. Thanks, man!
I just watched your video sitting 5 feet away from my 65" LG OLED screen and the difference between HLG and SLOG is remarkable! The colors are remarkable with HLG. Thank you for sharing your findings. I'm confused about the LUT being an SLOG to Kodak, because I thought that HLG was not a log curve. I use Premier Pro cc on Windows so I can't test out the LUT. I hope you share more insights into grading HLG and picture profile settings that you find best, assuming they may change as you spend more time with the A7. I'm trying to figure out how to get the best video from the Sony A7 III myself and your videos help a lot.
Best way to watch it! Thanks for the kind words. The Lut's I've been using are for SLOG 2 because they match the most closely with the end output I'm trying to achieve. It's definitely not ideal, but there's no lut.. at least none that I have, that are specialized for HLG. Using an SLOG 2 lut is just a temporary solution. I'm hoping to do a video about my current post workflow, but it's important to not get hung up on the particular lut. This is just a lut that I've liked for a long time. Any lut that allows for an HLG to 709 conversion will work though. I'm guessing even in PR CC. Stay tuned though. Going to make more videos that detail my experience. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Thank you for the reply Scott, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of your videos.
I'm looking forward to watch those videos. Awesome researches :)
Thank you guys for watching!
I really enjoy the look you are achieving with the HLG-3
Thanks!
Hey Scott, I was wondering if you would be able to do a tutorial how you setup your camera for video and also talk a bit more about REC 709 vs REC 2020. Thanks
Hey man great video! Thanks for your work! At the moment i'm testing and experimenting with the picture profiles and its settings of my sony a7r3. I have searched the whole internet to understand what exactly the knee settings does and what it affects. I still couldnt figure it out exactly and with my test shots i did i couldnt barely see any difference with different settings. Can you somehow help me out with this?
Thanks for the kind words! It's essentially the gamma curve setting of the highlights. Mine is negative because it's a softer, more gradual gradation that is similar to how film handles highlights. You lose a little detail, but it's far less harsh and video-looking. More soft and elegant to my eye. But it's a personal preference. The best way to see how it is effected is to aim your camera up at a lamp with a shade. See how the bulb is effected within the shade. You'll see how the detail is affected, but you'll also notice the change in softness, etc.
This is from Sony:
Manual:
Sticks to settings based on the following selections.
[Point] sets the position of the knee point output level.
[Slope] determines the inclination of the knee slope.
A negative slope setting results in a gentler knee slope angle. This expands the dynamic range, but reduces the ability to produce rich gradations. A positive slope setting makes the knee slope inclination steeper. This shrinks the dynamic range, but bolsters the ability to express gradations. When [Slope] is set to +5, the Knee function is disabled.
Set [Point] and [Slope] in [Manual Set] in combination. If you select a higher setting for [Point] and a gentler setting for [Slope], you can obtain video-like sharp highlight effects. If softer film-like highlight effects are desired, select a lower setting for [Point] and a steeper setting for [Slope]. In practical terms, move [Point] and [Slope] up and down in opposite directions while checking the gradations in high luminance areas until you find the ideal settings.
One thing i found that is weird is that when previewing my raw footage on FCP or my windows desktop, it looks overexposed similar to yours, but when viewed on Premiere Pro it looks like a underexposed slog file and bringing up the exposure adds a significant amount of noise. Would you have an idea to why this is happening ?
My premiere conversion demo should shed some light on this. Long and short, PR doesn't support HDR formats, so it auto converts to rec 709.. but with out the curve, contrast, and saturation of rec 709
Off topic, but you're cropping in with 4k. But your export is also 4k, how come you don't lose quality when doing so?
I thought this would only work with 1080 export
Good question. A lot of this just has to do with perceivable resolution, which isn't always visible to the naked eye. I typically upload this way because youtube has cleaner image rendering and compression in 4K. Once I discovered this, I just haven't gone back. As long as the difference in resolution isn't perceivable, I prefer a 4K upload any day.
@@ScottJeschke so are you upscaling your 1080p to 4k before uploading? That was sort of my main question which I didn't quite get out of your reply 😊
@@PeterPengKrogh No, I shoot 4K and upscale my 4K for the punch-ins (within a 4K timeline), and export in 4k. Hope that makes sense. For client work, I typically use a 1080 timeline and use the traditional method that you are talking about, but for youtube, I use the method mentioned above.
@@ScottJeschke makes sense. Thanks for clarifying it 😊 highly appreciated
hey thanks for this. do you need to use 1600 ISO or 800 ISO as minimun for Log PP's??? Thanks!!
For SLOG the minimum is 800. For HLG you can go as low as 200. It can be really clean, but I don't necessarily recommend it unless you're adding some fine noise in post. If it's too clean the compression will result in banding. So far the best results for me have come from iso 800. At least in lit or interior environments. 800 also provides the most dynamic range.
Thanks for the info dude
No problem!
Not sure if it applies to some other settings but at least here HLG blows away the Slog-3. Seen something similar too from the AX700's HLG footage despite its much smaller sensor. Thanks for sharing.
Finally finished some LUTS! I'm considering them as Betas so Let me know what you think of them.
www.scottjeschke.com/luts/sj-beta-luts-and-hlg-pp-october-2019
Finally i bought A7m3 and I bought your luts too~_~
Could you write camera shoot settings to use in your site or here please?
Thanks a lot!!!
Thanks bro ❤️ really helpful 👌
Can i use this setting with wb of 5500k? Another question whats the setting for color mode, color phase and color depth?
Did you overexpose HLG or just normal exposure ?
Normal. Between 0.0 and 0.7 is the sweet spot
I am looking to get a lav microphone for my Zoom H1 and would like to know what you use. Thanks!
I got this a few months ago. It's super cheap, great quality and works with smart phones as well. a.co/7n0Wakh
Thanks so much. Ordered !!
the Slog looks muddy. Idk, something about it just looks weird. The highlights look weird on your skin. I've been coming across this problem when Im shooting on my a6500 on cine4!!
I cant get the colors looking right.. bumping up the highlights just seems to blow it out and contrast doesnt help. Not sure what it is. But, it looks just like the slog3, and I hate it.
The hlg looks a lot better with more details
have you tried custom rgb curves?
Scott it’s time to do a color grading Tut on your channel, with HLG or SLOG. The color grading and style is awesome.
I'm so late to this, but you are most kind!
Love the video subscribed!
Love the video where can i find the lut for premiere pro
Wow! Amazing!
which lens you use for this video??
HLG3 definitely better.
Slog skin tones looks like grainy mud
wow.... just wow!
I've never heard of HLG - I'm assuming it's only in the A7III/A7RIII?
Correct. And the Gh5. It's a new HDR format
Thank you.
This looks great to me :)
Fantastico!!!!
Nice! I'll curious for low light and various lighting situations as well. Thanks
Thanks! All that is underway ;)
Does the work flow apply for final cut the same for premiere pro how u apply the luts
Same principle, except no conversion, is required since PR pro does not yet support HDR formats.
Damn the hlg looks sooo good
yea
legend. great tips.
Thanks!
@2:06 Lut and Grade would make a good buddy cop movie title.
Zach Griffin haha 😂
Reminds of an Arri Alexa-type look!
High praise ;)
Your channel is soooooo inspirational!!! I'm REALLY intrigued by the HLG 3 in the a7iii! You're the ONLY one on UA-cam doing it! And that's why I'm glued to your channel! I get my a7iii Monday and cab't wait to view all your upcoming videos!!! You're THE Sony a7iii king! HANDS DOWN!!!!
Wow! This made my day. Thanks so much for the kind words. I'm glad to see that there's an interest in this. I nerded out when I stumbled upon this, but I'm glad others are excited about it. Many more videos to come! Thanks again.
Nice! Thanks!
Roll out a new video in mid day :) would love to see a hlg / slog2/3 comparison
Hoping to soon. Been swamped :/
Hy what zebra level do u use while use hgl3?
非常专业
AMAZING !!! Thank you So much!
i like your video man. 👍👍
Thanks!
have you compared skin tone for a7III in hlg3 vs bmpcc4k in raw ?
I have not. I'd love to. I'd imagine the bmpcc4k would crush though w the raw ability
@@ScottJeschke never assume without testing, i saw bmpcc4k footage with weird color artefact