Want to help support this channel? Visit our Patreon for added benefits: www.patreon.com/Physicalculturehistorians Check out my books on Amazon: www.amazon.com/Ben-Miller/e/B0722KCH5Y Click the "subscribe" button above. Thanks!
BRAVO! I have also dealt with bad "scholarship" related to Chinese martial arts for decades. It might be "fun" to follow this up with asking "how much so called Daoist Kung Fu (internal) is actually Western gymnastics that soldiers learned in the New Army"? I have already a good amount of material suggesting that is true
Very nice discussion! Also great work in tracking down those early sources. It's always hard to have a discussion based on belief, rather than evidence, particularly when origin narratives are concerned.
I would have thought that pulling yourself up, squatting down or pushing off the ground are fairly intuitive movements. In that many cultures probably developed similar exercises independently from each other.
You would think so! But based on what we know of the historical evidence, that doesn’t seem to be the case, in terms of a codified or systematized exercise method. :)
@@PhysicalCultureHistorians That's so wild that people thought 'hey you know these movements we have to do some form of every day? Meh probably not important' 😅
Very interesting! What if calisthenics came from ancient Greece and Pankration went with Alexander the great to Asia, founding the martial arts? What if travellers from Europe learned about Yoga and adopted sun salutation and dand baithak? I think the question for the origin of calisthenics is far more complicated as we think. Very cool video indeed!
Even without Alexander the Great we tend to underestimate how far and wide performing artists/acrobats travelled. There are sources about roman artists in china, indian artists in rome and byzantine artists in greek about 2000 years ago. I think it´s safe to assume that any big ancient culture had one kind of center that was also a melting pot for physical culture and art especially as advanced practitioners of physical culture were easily able to learn by observation without the need for personal contact or communication.
The mythical origin stories that get perpetuated about so many things often sound like something that you'd hear from a pro wrestling promoter, and yet very few people ever question these accounts or try to dig deeper because of personal biases, ignorance, financial incentives(outrageous lies sell more books/get more clicks than mundane realities), etc. And this channel cuts through all that stuff and just tries to lay out as many facts as are available from surviving primary sources which, aside from my own interest in physical cultures, is a major reason why I keep coming back. Great work as always!
I've just discovered your channel, and have been enjoying your videos immensely! What a fantastic analysis - have you considered writing an actual sci-paper on it, where you would systematically put forward the argument that you've so nicely presented in this video? Also - fascinated by the content in general; looking forward to learning as much as possible from all the knowledge you've accumulated and have so kindly decided to share with us. A heartfelt thank you!
Thanks so much for all your kind words, and welcome aboard! I had not considered writing a paper on it-I actually have had some articles published in the past (Kung Fu magazine, etc.) but I actually get more reach and views with the UA-cam medium, so I’ve stuck to that. If someone invites me to write or present a paper/article, I would certainly consider!
Very interesting, looking forward to your future videos! Would be really interesting if you shared more about the history of modern yoga, as practiced in the West, which I to my surprise found exactly mimics the Danish gymnastic exercises... It is rather upsetting how pieces of history are stolen and twisted like this, especially since for example many Christians avoid practicing modern postural yoga, which has so many benefits, just due to the belief that it is a product of Hinduism.
Glad you liked it! Thanks! If you look at the last several videos we did, you will find a sort of “sequel” to this one, about the influence of the ancient Greeks on 19th century physical cultures.
Just take a look at the Kushi wrestlers of Punjab India and the Akhara of Varanasi India, and the Zurkhaneh Pahlevani of Persia. They used lots of various calisthenics.
Without any disrepute to your fantastic work I'd like to mention that the human body has been principally for at least a million years. So it would be but logical that humans all around the world think about very similar ways to strengthen it…
Thanks for your kind words about my work! The video definitely does not dispute that humans throughout history have thought up similar ways to strengthen the body.
thanks another great video and research. One thought that occurred to me as a researcher of 19th century asian "jugglers/performing artists and their european copyists was that alot of 19th century performing artists copying/imitating asian artists despite most likely having received primarily european style training may have had an influence on the "chinese origin thesis" beeing much more accepted than it apparently should have been.
Another excellent piece of scholarly detective work. Many thanks, much appreciated. Now that qigong and so called ‘internal’ Chinese martial arts are better known in the west, the differences between Chinese and western approaches to physical culture, from a practical standpoint are, in my mind (as a dabbler in both for many decades), obvious. Interesting how both the literature and lived experiences indicate no connection. Interestingly, there is evidence of Classical Chinese medicine influencing the west, way back when various Jesuit missionaries connected with China. Do you know anything about the theory for western, particularly Scandinavian, physical culture influencing yoga during the popularisation of yoga during the 19th and early 20th centuries? Keep up the good work!
Thanks so much Dr Hughes! Regarding the alleged Scandinavian influence on yoga. Most of what I have heard or read is mentioned in Mark Singleton’s book. Having trained in both modern and classical yoga, I will say that much of “modern yoga” taught in the west are very physical-focused with a tiny bit of the breathing exercises. So these evolved quite a bit and are significantly different from classical yoga lineages which still exist. Especially with things like “hot yoga” and those that have introduced gimmicks. I think it is highly probable that many of these modern yoga methods took some positions from Western methods as well as created many new ones. I have received many comments from people insisting that “modern yoga is basically Swedish”, or “modern yoga is more Swedish than Indian”…. Which is patently untrue, because the fact is that except for one or a couple positions, yoga does not resemble Ling’s Swedish method. Singleton is actually much more conservative in his thesis than these folks seem to realize. Swedish gymnastics was such a huge influence on Western physical culture in general, you could of course argue that there is an influence there which has trickled down across generations and methods. But practically speaking they are different animals, and there’s very little overlap in positions. I think the lunge-like positions in yoga likely came from the West. I also think some of the pedagogy (group classes in formation following a lead instructor) was also likely Western derived (this itself being something that developed in the West during the 19th century). A fertile ground for more exploration and perhaps something I will do a future video on. :)
We have the same problem with french savate, lot of People believe in a asian origin that is totaly false. Before Ling, Amoros already have à method with squat, pull up and already kettlebell and no chinese clue
Interesting, yes, I have also heard the “Savate asian origin theory too”! Yes, there were many influences on Ling from earlier European techniques. At some point I will do a video going through them all.
Do you have any plans to write a paper on this, to facilitate citation by other academics? BTW I’m promoting this content at Martial History Team, if you’d like to participate. We have a Discord server linked from our blog. Thanks again.
Hi Richard, thanks! I didn’t have plans for an academic paper, simply because I’m super busy and UA-cam seems to reach more people these days. However you have no planted the idea, and I could write something up. I’ll try to find your blog and server!! Definitely interested in participating!
Maybe all systems of movement originate from a common source, or more likely, great minds in diverse places thought alike at near the same time. I've wondered what the Greeks owed to Egypt and the Persians...I'm no authority on Chinese movement practices but I have been thinking about it for at least 40 years, which was when I attended my first Tai Chi class....I don't see any resemblances to Chinese energetic's in Ling's work. I think more, fencing, gymnastics, and ballet....But I'm no authority on Ling either. Worth noting, the eight brocades has a standing practice as well as a sitting practice, which looks nothing like what I've seen of Ling's movements. I wonder, Ben, if you would see relevances in another Chi Kung system, the muscle-tendon classic, said to have been brought to Shaolin temple by a monk from India, Bodhidharma...and the beat goes on.
Yup! First read it in a qigong book, somehow I was willing to consider it though aware of the many academic treatments of the convergent history of yoga were published.
Thanks for another well researched video, the lesson should probably be to always be sceptical about the established “truths”. One thing that puzzles me is why people have such a hard time conceptualizing that Scandinavians or Europeans as well as Asians would have the need to investigate and research and venture into these areas? Why is it so hard for people to simply realize that these are universal needs for all people?
Thanks for the kind words Roland! There seems to be a popular desire to see a “common origin” in everything, rather than acknowledge the possibility, and frequent probability, of parallel development. Why this is, I’m not sure, I’ve always found it a bit strange!
When something looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it`s probably a duck. Same goes for western c. This looks so european, kinda stiff, kinda ballet, kinda fencing, kinda walz. .. it can be only european by origin. You can even see similarities in posture and movement to the italian knife, stickfighting and calci et schiaffi - systems. Or chausson from the french. English pugilism. Asians developed a complete different stance and expression.
So much Bharat culture lost during the days of Indian disarmament & ect. When societies are dominated, masculine/martial institutions are busted up. Or rather, any "behavior" that looks like it could be used in combat, is outlawed. Also, any institution or place of gathering where men/people "would discuss resistance" is busted up. So, this is how you get things like Capoeira: a martial exercise without military application, ect.
Eight so brocades also had a standing method. And Chinese medicine was brought by the Jesuits to France during the time of Napoleon. Napoleon also carried military strategy book by Sun Su the Art of war. The sitting method of the age of brocade was done in the morning when the soldiers woke up because of the heavy armor they had to wear.
Agreed, a direct connection is possible but not probably. Indirectly cultures from all over the world have influenced each other for millenia. Which can be a correlation, but so are basic biomechanics. As long as we don't grow a third arm all movements aimed at similar goals are likely to share similarities.
Yes, at this stage, having debunked all of the theories in favor, we can say there is zero evidence or reason to suggest Asian influence on Ling’s method. And we know what his actual influence are! :)
Nice article. The other way around The Chinese communist party has used heilgymnastics to reorganized Chinese gymnastics and called it qigong and wushu. I did my master research on this topic writing about the history of qigong. They followed the example of the Indian army doing the same for yoga to weaponize the bodies of the Indian army, since the English army didn't allow them to work with dumb and kettle bells.
Those making things up, might as well have gone all in and claim "Ling is of course a Chinese surname, and before coming to Europe he learned his techniques during his childhood in China" and hope people don't look to closely. more generally if there was an influence on European physical culture it would probably be more from India, through the British Army and club swinging, and not China. Edited for clarity.
Amazing how everything invented by western men is always accused of being Appropriated. I come across this thinking a lot because I study martial arts. My first love was wrestling so I continually hear about how BJJ is more advanced. When in truth catch wrestling surpasses BJJ in everyway. The funny thing about martial arts is when looking deeper nothing is what it seems. I love your research. I started exercising very young my grandfather was very athletic. I remember him using Indian clubs when I was very young. We thought they were bowling pins. Anyway love your work
Many thanks for debunking a popular myth and so ably demonstrating that scholars really need to check their references and go back to primary sources, if at all possible.
It does relate to Chong, the mind leads, the chief, and the directly affects meridians, which are the nervous at Venus and arterial systems of the body. You still may be correct, but you are not so totally correct as you may believe.
Since I’m going point by point through historical evidence, if you can point out any specific moments where I’m wrong, I’d be very interested to know. :)
Looks to me that there is for some people a sense of shame in everything from the West. Almost NO one mentions the REAL influence of western practices on yoga, and Chinese martial arts. It can be argued that Tai Chi, the slow graceful movement, that we know today is LESS than a century old! And is influenced by European technology. Cheers😀
The argument did not convince me. That guys' retort is not enough. Clearly you have a preference towards western things, I understand because I myself always favor the East, but in the same way the situation has been done in the opposite direction, with eastern content being inspired by western things and their subsequent denial of it. Your conclusion to me sounded more ideological than anything. To me this subject is still inconclusive.
This is about the truth, not being pro West or pro East. In fact I take the “other side” (if you view this as East versus West) completely when it comes to yoga, which many falsely believe is predominantly Western in origin. I have trained under Indians and Japanese masters in multiple spiritual disciplines, and have immense respect for them. The only thing I am “against” is falsehood. Regarding this video, the entire notion that Ling’s method came from China was found to come from a single individual whose thesis had no basis in reality. What about exactly did you find compelling about it? In terms of the evidence, what am I missing? Also, for the actual influences on Ling for which there is evidence, see my follow up video: ua-cam.com/video/xvvo32HXnB4/v-deo.htmlsi=VnQBHqrlVeDuW-7y
@@PhysicalCultureHistorians well, I just found that the point made based on the account on one person, even if they were an authority, simply not enough. I do think also that the evidence for it being chinese lacks evidence. As for the east vs west assumption, I apologize for jumping to conclusions without taking into consideration your knowledge and experience of it.
Want to help support this channel?
Visit our Patreon for added benefits: www.patreon.com/Physicalculturehistorians
Check out my books on Amazon: www.amazon.com/Ben-Miller/e/B0722KCH5Y
Click the "subscribe" button above. Thanks!
BRAVO! I have also dealt with bad "scholarship" related to Chinese martial arts for decades. It might be "fun" to follow this up with asking "how much so called Daoist Kung Fu (internal) is actually Western gymnastics that soldiers learned in the New Army"? I have already a good amount of material suggesting that is true
Very nice discussion! Also great work in tracking down those early sources. It's always hard to have a discussion based on belief, rather than evidence, particularly when origin narratives are concerned.
Thanks Andrew! 🙏
I would have thought that pulling yourself up, squatting down or pushing off the ground are fairly intuitive movements. In that many cultures probably developed similar exercises independently from each other.
You would think so! But based on what we know of the historical evidence, that doesn’t seem to be the case, in terms of a codified or systematized exercise method. :)
@@PhysicalCultureHistorians That's so wild that people thought 'hey you know these movements we have to do some form of every day? Meh probably not important' 😅
You gotta squat to squat if you ain’t got no toilet to sit in. You gotta pull up to climb.
When historical reasearch gets a detective story. Love every minute 😊
Thanks Oliver! 🙏
As a martial artist who has studied eastern and western martial arts I appreciate this. Thank you.🙂🥋🇺🇲
Thank you 🙏 for the kind words!
Very interesting! What if calisthenics came from ancient Greece and Pankration went with Alexander the great to Asia, founding the martial arts? What if travellers from Europe learned about Yoga and adopted sun salutation and dand baithak? I think the question for the origin of calisthenics is far more complicated as we think. Very cool video indeed!
Even without Alexander the Great we tend to underestimate how far and wide performing artists/acrobats travelled. There are sources about roman artists in china, indian artists in rome and byzantine artists in greek about 2000 years ago. I think it´s safe to assume that any big ancient culture had one kind of center that was also a melting pot for physical culture and art especially as advanced practitioners of physical culture were easily able to learn by observation without the need for personal contact or communication.
@@irrelevantius agree totally! Fascinating... I even read that trade routes in the bronze age reached from Cornwall to Iran (tin mining)
Excellent dive, love the research that went into this.
Thank you sir!
The mythical origin stories that get perpetuated about so many things often sound like something that you'd hear from a pro wrestling promoter, and yet very few people ever question these accounts or try to dig deeper because of personal biases, ignorance, financial incentives(outrageous lies sell more books/get more clicks than mundane realities), etc. And this channel cuts through all that stuff and just tries to lay out as many facts as are available from surviving primary sources which, aside from my own interest in physical cultures, is a major reason why I keep coming back. Great work as always!
I've just discovered your channel, and have been enjoying your videos immensely! What a fantastic analysis - have you considered writing an actual sci-paper on it, where you would systematically put forward the argument that you've so nicely presented in this video?
Also - fascinated by the content in general; looking forward to learning as much as possible from all the knowledge you've accumulated and have so kindly decided to share with us. A heartfelt thank you!
Thanks so much for all your kind words, and welcome aboard! I had not considered writing a paper on it-I actually have had some articles published in the past (Kung Fu magazine, etc.) but I actually get more reach and views with the UA-cam medium, so I’ve stuck to that. If someone invites me to write or present a paper/article, I would certainly consider!
LOL @ 3:18, Tui Na is a massage system in Traditional Chinese Medicine. Its not Chinese martial arts.
Yep, another thing the modern texts got wrong! :)
Fascinating stuff. Nicely done.
Thank you! 🙏
Thank you for sharing your source information and perspective. Your work is much appreciated
Very interesting, looking forward to your future videos! Would be really interesting if you shared more about the history of modern yoga, as practiced in the West, which I to my surprise found exactly mimics the Danish gymnastic exercises... It is rather upsetting how pieces of history are stolen and twisted like this, especially since for example many Christians avoid practicing modern postural yoga, which has so many benefits, just due to the belief that it is a product of Hinduism.
Thank you! Yes, I would like to do one on the yoga connection as well. Have you read Mark Singleton’s book “Yoga Body”?
@@davidmiller6642 I listened to a few of his talks only today. This is really such a discovery for me having practiced (fitness) yoga for ca 7 years!
Amazing result and expisition of the facts. Thank you.
Glad you liked it! Thanks! If you look at the last several videos we did, you will find a sort of “sequel” to this one, about the influence of the ancient Greeks on 19th century physical cultures.
Just take a look at the Kushi wrestlers of Punjab India and the Akhara of Varanasi India, and the Zurkhaneh Pahlevani of Persia. They used lots of various calisthenics.
Oh yes, definitely! ❤️👍🏼🙏
very interesting topic indeed!
Fascinating scholarly research Ben!
Thanks Ron! 🙏
Thank you for the education, knowledge is never a burden to carry.
Thanks Rose!
This is outstanding. Thank you.
Thank you for the kind words! 🙏
Awesome research, Ben!
Thanks Dave! 🙏
Without any disrepute to your fantastic work I'd like to mention that the human body has been principally for at least a million years. So it would be but logical that humans all around the world think about very similar ways to strengthen it…
Thanks for your kind words about my work! The video definitely does not dispute that humans throughout history have thought up similar ways to strengthen the body.
thanks another great video and research. One thought that occurred to me as a researcher of 19th century asian "jugglers/performing artists and their european copyists was that alot of 19th century performing artists copying/imitating asian artists despite most likely having received primarily european style training may have had an influence on the "chinese origin thesis" beeing much more accepted than it apparently should have been.
I like it. It's very informative and well done video.
Thank you!!! 🙏
This video needs more views
Thank you! 🙏 I agree! 😀
Another excellent piece of scholarly detective work. Many thanks, much appreciated. Now that qigong and so called ‘internal’ Chinese martial arts are better known in the west, the differences between Chinese and western approaches to physical culture, from a practical standpoint are, in my mind (as a dabbler in both for many decades), obvious. Interesting how both the literature and lived experiences indicate no connection. Interestingly, there is evidence of Classical Chinese medicine influencing the west, way back when various Jesuit missionaries connected with China. Do you know anything about the theory for western, particularly Scandinavian, physical culture influencing yoga during the popularisation of yoga during the 19th and early 20th centuries? Keep up the good work!
Thanks so much Dr Hughes! Regarding the alleged Scandinavian influence on yoga. Most of what I have heard or read is mentioned in Mark Singleton’s book. Having trained in both modern and classical yoga, I will say that much of “modern yoga” taught in the west are very physical-focused with a tiny bit of the breathing exercises. So these evolved quite a bit and are significantly different from classical yoga lineages which still exist. Especially with things like “hot yoga” and those that have introduced gimmicks. I think it is highly probable that many of these modern yoga methods took some positions from Western methods as well as created many new ones. I have received many comments from people insisting that “modern yoga is basically Swedish”, or “modern yoga is more Swedish than Indian”…. Which is patently untrue, because the fact is that except for one or a couple positions, yoga does not resemble Ling’s Swedish method. Singleton is actually much more conservative in his thesis than these folks seem to realize. Swedish gymnastics was such a huge influence on Western physical culture in general, you could of course argue that there is an influence there which has trickled down across generations and methods. But practically speaking they are different animals, and there’s very little overlap in positions. I think the lunge-like positions in yoga likely came from the West. I also think some of the pedagogy (group classes in formation following a lead instructor) was also likely Western derived (this itself being something that developed in the West during the 19th century). A fertile ground for more exploration and perhaps something I will do a future video on. :)
We have the same problem with french savate, lot of People believe in a asian origin that is totaly false. Before Ling, Amoros already have à method with squat, pull up and already kettlebell and no chinese clue
Interesting, yes, I have also heard the “Savate asian origin theory too”! Yes, there were many influences on Ling from earlier European techniques. At some point I will do a video going through them all.
@@davidmiller6642 Yes I forgot about Savate...
Well, if you were objective then you'd acknowledge the historical truth about savate, canne de combat or even ballet.
@@kaliyuddha yes, the wonderful french spirit
Do you have any plans to write a paper on this, to facilitate citation by other academics? BTW I’m promoting this content at Martial History Team, if you’d like to participate. We have a Discord server linked from our blog. Thanks again.
Hi Richard, thanks! I didn’t have plans for an academic paper, simply because I’m super busy and UA-cam seems to reach more people these days. However you have no planted the idea, and I could write something up. I’ll try to find your blog and server!! Definitely interested in participating!
Maybe all systems of movement originate from a common source, or more likely, great minds in diverse places thought alike at near the same time. I've wondered what the Greeks owed to Egypt and the Persians...I'm no authority on Chinese movement practices but I have been thinking about it for at least 40 years, which was when I attended my first Tai Chi class....I don't see any resemblances to Chinese energetic's in Ling's work. I think more, fencing, gymnastics, and ballet....But I'm no authority on Ling either.
Worth noting, the eight brocades has a standing practice as well as a sitting practice, which looks nothing like what I've seen of Ling's movements.
I wonder, Ben, if you would see relevances in another Chi Kung system, the muscle-tendon classic, said to have been brought to Shaolin temple by a monk from India, Bodhidharma...and the beat goes on.
Hi Paul, thanks for the kind words. If you can point me to a source of information for that Shaolim chi gong method, I will definitely check it out!
Yup! First read it in a qigong book, somehow I was willing to consider it though aware of the many academic treatments of the convergent history of yoga were published.
Thanks for another well researched video, the lesson should probably be to always be sceptical about the established “truths”.
One thing that puzzles me is why people have such a hard time conceptualizing that Scandinavians or Europeans as well as Asians would have the need to investigate and research and venture into these areas? Why is it so hard for people to simply realize that these are universal needs for all people?
Thanks for the kind words Roland! There seems to be a popular desire to see a “common origin” in everything, rather than acknowledge the possibility, and frequent probability, of parallel development. Why this is, I’m not sure, I’ve always found it a bit strange!
When something looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it`s probably a duck. Same goes for western c. This looks so european, kinda stiff, kinda ballet, kinda fencing, kinda walz. .. it can be only european by origin. You can even see similarities in posture and movement to the italian knife, stickfighting and calci et schiaffi - systems. Or chausson from the french. English pugilism. Asians developed a complete different stance and expression.
So much Bharat culture lost during the days of Indian disarmament & ect.
When societies are dominated, masculine/martial institutions are busted up.
Or rather, any "behavior" that looks like it could be used in combat, is outlawed.
Also, any institution or place of gathering where men/people "would discuss resistance" is busted up.
So, this is how you get things like Capoeira: a martial exercise without military application, ect.
Eight so brocades also had a standing method. And Chinese medicine was brought by the Jesuits to France during the time of Napoleon. Napoleon also carried military strategy book by Sun Su the Art of war. The sitting method of the age of brocade was done in the morning when the soldiers woke up because of the heavy armor they had to wear.
What is the “age of brocade”?
@@PhysicalCultureHistoriansLooks like a typo. Meant to be 8 Brocades. The 8 Brocades I learned were all standing.
What is the name of the song in the outro?
Thank you for this research and presentation.
Agreed, a direct connection is possible but not probably.
Indirectly cultures from all over the world have influenced each other for millenia. Which can be a correlation, but so are basic biomechanics. As long as we don't grow a third arm all movements aimed at similar goals are likely to share similarities.
Yes, at this stage, having debunked all of the theories in favor, we can say there is zero evidence or reason to suggest Asian influence on Ling’s method. And we know what his actual influence are! :)
Nice article. The other way around The Chinese communist party has used heilgymnastics to reorganized Chinese gymnastics and called it qigong and wushu. I did my master research on this topic writing about the history of qigong. They followed the example of the Indian army doing the same for yoga to weaponize the bodies of the Indian army, since the English army didn't allow them to work with dumb and kettle bells.
Interesting, thanks. Is any of your research on the subject publicly available?
Tui Na is manual therapy, not martial art....
Yep.
Those making things up, might as well have gone all in and claim "Ling is of course a Chinese surname, and before coming to Europe he learned his techniques during his childhood in China" and hope people don't look to closely.
more generally if there was an influence on European physical culture it would probably be more from India, through the British Army and club swinging, and not China.
Edited for clarity.
Amazing how everything invented by western men is always accused of being Appropriated. I come across this thinking a lot because I study martial arts. My first love was wrestling so I continually hear about how BJJ is more advanced. When in truth catch wrestling surpasses BJJ in everyway. The funny thing about martial arts is when looking deeper nothing is what it seems.
I love your research. I started exercising very young my grandfather was very athletic. I remember him using Indian clubs when I was very young. We thought they were bowling pins.
Anyway love your work
@@idx1941 you can’t read can you
@@idx1941 comprehend your lack of basic knowledge, then you are right.
Many thanks for debunking a popular myth and so ably demonstrating that scholars really need to check their references and go back to primary sources, if at all possible.
Thanks for the kind words! The sequel to this video will be posted soon!
It does relate to Chong, the mind leads, the chief, and the directly affects meridians, which are the nervous at Venus and arterial systems of the body. You still may be correct, but you are not so totally correct as you may believe.
Since I’m going point by point through historical evidence, if you can point out any specific moments where I’m wrong, I’d be very interested to know. :)
Calisthenics and wrestling component, is likely absent in Kung Fu today - living tradition.
Also bearing arms….
Looks to me that there is for some people a sense of shame in everything from the West. Almost NO one mentions the REAL influence of western practices on yoga, and Chinese martial arts. It can be argued that Tai Chi, the slow graceful movement, that we know today is LESS than a century old! And is influenced by European technology. Cheers😀
The argument did not convince me. That guys' retort is not enough. Clearly you have a preference towards western things, I understand because I myself always favor the East, but in the same way the situation has been done in the opposite direction, with eastern content being inspired by western things and their subsequent denial of it. Your conclusion to me sounded more ideological than anything. To me this subject is still inconclusive.
This is about the truth, not being pro West or pro East. In fact I take the “other side” (if you view this as East versus West) completely when it comes to yoga, which many falsely believe is predominantly Western in origin. I have trained under Indians and Japanese masters in multiple spiritual disciplines, and have immense respect for them. The only thing I am “against” is falsehood. Regarding this video, the entire notion that Ling’s method came from China was found to come from a single individual whose thesis had no basis in reality. What about exactly did you find compelling about it? In terms of the evidence, what am I missing? Also, for the actual influences on Ling for which there is evidence, see my follow up video: ua-cam.com/video/xvvo32HXnB4/v-deo.htmlsi=VnQBHqrlVeDuW-7y
@@PhysicalCultureHistorians well, I just found that the point made based on the account on one person, even if they were an authority, simply not enough. I do think also that the evidence for it being chinese lacks evidence. As for the east vs west assumption, I apologize for jumping to conclusions without taking into consideration your knowledge and experience of it.
It is easy to fall under extremes on the internet.
It's amazing that people just make up stuff like an old man on a boat, just to support their beliefs