A Smoked ECM AND a Jumped Timing Belt? [VW Passat No Start - an SDP Case Study - Part 3 of 3]
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- This is part 3 of a 3 part case study where I navigate through this unknown problem live with my class at Rosedale Technical College. We will dissect this VW completely, showing the exact cause of the problem. As with other classroom case studies I will be using any and all possible testing procedures to narrow down the problem area. Speed is not as important as learning these methods. But you guys that have been following along already know that. It's why your here!
00:00 - calling a "bad" computer and speculating what happened
04:40 - capturing a cam and crank correlation waveform
05:48 - searching the Pico Waveform Library for a "KNOWN GOOD" waveform
12:00 - theorizing how a broken timing belt progressed into a faulty computer
13:20 - zoomed-in analysis of cam and crank waveform
15:50 - dis-assembled computer to see the burnt circuit
24:35 - hall effect sensor design and operation
26:30 - discussing a fixed 5 volt signal
29:50 - determining hall effect circuit design and explaining how it makes a square wave
32:00 - why is the sensor not producing a square wave?
33:00 - why is there voltage on an OPEN ground?
35:45 - discussion of externally grounding sensor for waveform capture
38:27 - things to consider before replacing a hall effect sensor
39:15 - picture showing how small the burnt circuit is
39:45 - picture of a Camaro ICM Vs. Ebay module
40:45 - How to test an ignition coil - shorted primary - GM part 1
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- How to test an ignition coil - shorted primary - GM part 2
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On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
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Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC. - Авто та транспорт
![VW Passat No Start - an SDP Case Study (Part 2) - [Bad Sensor Ground]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-nVe0CEZ-_k/mqdefault.jpg)
![VW Passat No Start - an SDP Case Study (Part 2) - [Bad Sensor Ground]](/img/tr.png)
![No Spark Troubleshooting [Mopar Electronic Ignition with Ballast Resistor]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RiC8OaSXMs8/mqdefault.jpg)
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Is there a way to subscribe for those of us who DON'T have a bank account, so no way to pay electrically? And/or pay for your book... money order or cash something like that. 🤔
@@medicfour9268 yes for sure. Email me at support@scannerdanner.com and we can work that out. I've accepted personal checks, western union, etc before. Thank you!
check out Northridge Fix on youtube. That guy is amazing at microsoldering and he could fix that computer for you easily. ua-cam.com/users/NorthridgeFixfeatured.
If you try, it will end up as a bodge.
Great news!!💞💞
Great video as well. Can You tell me what was a reason of smoked ECM? Best regards
I hope the hell these guys know how lucky they are to have a Teacher like you Paul!!!
my personal students typically don't but this class had a few guys in it that absolutely did and you can hear how much it changes the class for the better. (when they ask questions and are engaged) Thank you Douglas!
The board is attached to the aluminum housing by thermally conductive paste that glues the two together, allowing heat a chance to dissipate to the aluminum housing and then radiate away. You can buy tubes of that conductive paste. It's distinct from the silicone RTV around the outside designed to keep moisture out. I like your idea to try a repair, and it's a great way to expand skills without much risk. It's too bad that more recent boards are epoxied in to seal out moisture, making even minor repairs like this nearly impossible.
These you can work on.
The really hard to do were the JPEG from Chrysler from around 1999 to 2004 on most 3.7, 4.7, 5.7, 5.9.
These Bosh, Continental ECUs are easier to work.
There are more tools for programming and cloning too with newer modules.
I've seen this exact issue with 2005-up ford trucks
My old 90 lesabre has such conductive paste between the Ignition Control Module and the base that supports it.
@@shagytrsc2 The Bosch ECUs are actually easier to open than the Continentals. I just opened a Continental one. Almost killed myself doing the physical contortions to open it up :). I haven't been able to get the board out from the housing though. I suppose the Continental one has a double-sided board too? It's a junk yard one I'm playing with, so I can break it no problem.
Hi Paul, It is very hard for me to do anything else when I have a problem to solve, I get tunnel vision and I do ignore people. Before I retired If I had a job at home it would drive me crazy. So my hat off to you being able to teach a class and not melt down. But like I've said before you are a teacher and you make people want to learn,so they help you teach!!
exactly that my friend, when people want to learn, it helps me so much!
Great video series, Paul. Lots of good information in this series. That board looks like a job for Super Mario Diagnostics. He does those repairs all the time. Keep up the great work.
Paul thanks for another master class, the Saturday is always better with your videos
The live chat was enjoyable hope to see more in the future. Thanks paul
I don't know if you will remember but a few months ago I commented on a video I had an 06 commander with crazy problems it had a long crank like that the one you worked on it would go into limp mode... and just die sometimes... I'm just a shade tree mechanic on my own vehicles but your explanation of the Chrysler hall effect sensor shined the light for me I checked it changed my crankshaft position sensor and it fixed everything except the long crank! I delt with that for about a month took the accessory wire off the starter put a little dielectric grease in the connector and boom cranks right up every time. But I have to thank you personally I was lost and had almost given up on fixing it before I found your video . And the information you provided that gave me the knowledge to fix our only vehicle was a true blessing to me and my family . Thank you again and have a blessed day.
I am blessed by hearing this type of feedback. Thank you so much
I subscribed to your channel.
Came over after Buckdoesit talked about you.
Great information.
Take care, Ed.
Buckdoesit? I'll have to check him out, thank you!
I am so glad I am able to program computers on some of the stuff I work on. The other day I logged onto Ford and programmed a used trans TCM, and a key for another car at the same time. $50 for a 2 day unlimited subscription. I could toss a used $50 ecm in and program it for another $50 subscription if needed.
I was going to say my thought was at 3:17 that the belt was wrong and then someone cooked the computer! And here I am at 12:00 and you confirmed it!
I've been through a similar scenario with a 2001 Nissan Altima with a misfire condition. The driver was cooked and the ECU was hard to come by. Went to a junkyard got another ECU and desoldered and swapped the driver chip and eeprom to avoid reprogramming. Problem solved and only costed $50 for the ecu. It all depends on the customer that I go that far for that type of repair. It's a skill as us technicians should give a shot for piece of mind than buying a whole new ECU.
Good, you kept the word and uploaded all videos to everyone!
EDIT: It is so easy soldering, you need only proper tools. Blame only under 0.4mm soldering, this is yes too much (too little). I can to do it, you can to do that mammoth size 100% sure (I keep watching)
EDIT2: You do not need tiny tools, it is big misunderstanding on soldering. I use massive T12-K tip on everywhere, even 0.4mm pitch without problem. You must like flux and high temp. 350 degrees C is perfect. Internet is flooded so dumb suggestions where they suggest only 15W soldering thing and use low as possible temp...This is completely wrong! Time is your enemy but heat you must love.
Exactly what i observed at my work.best regards.
мистер Дэнер, спасибо за вашу работу.
i'd add in: the tiny trace for sensor ground was designed as such to act as a fuse. To protect the ECM from whatever VOLTAGE was applied to the sensor GROUND line.
Looking at your closeup of the ECM of the Circuit board. Looks like there is more damage to the traces in the upper left. See your yellow drawings next 5v ref.
Currently having an issue with an 05 jetta 2.0. Cam sensor shorted to battery code. Getting 5v ref, but signal is 0v until alternator starts charging, then it's 12v. First thought was a short in the harness but that's not the case. 12v signal remains for a couple minutes after key is turned off. Suspecting a bad PCM but trying to verify before going that route.
I think something like this was happening to my 2002 infiniti q45 however it's intermittent. I think coilpack arcing might have caused it.
First you diagnosed the smoked ECU , may be injectors or colis were not firing . And after repair by using cam to ck correlation or by relative comp and coil waveform you concluded the jumped timing ! 🤔🤔🤔
Let's see ❤️
Hello. I have question. Since the sensor ground used by the cam sensor is shared also by a thermistor which is the coolant sensor. Is this why we see 4.7v on the ground for the cam sensor?(being with failed sensor ground trace in the ecm) I mean is it reading the voltage feed for the coolant sensor through the thermistor, i guess if the coolant was warmer it would read 1.7v. This is sick !👍🔧
Paul I think on this engine when the timing cuts off will bend the valve , that’s why he put on belt then the car didn’t start then he start playing with wiring
I had to do a timing belt not too long ago on a 2 liter AG series VW engine. It was one of the old first gen ones. And much to my surprise, that POS doesn't have any alignment marks for the crankshaft. It did have marks on the cam gear, but that was it. I just had to line the cam up, then made some paint marks for the crank. Then put it together and hope it was right. It was also a 6 speed manual, i'm not sure if that makes a difference. I was so relieved though when it started and ran fine. All told, I did about 1500 dollars worth of work on that old piece of junk. But I've never seen a timing job, where the crank didn't have some kind of alignment mark. According to the service data, the manual transmission cars didn't have timing marks for the crank. Just wanted to throw that out there.
the early VWs had the timing mark or TDC mark on the flywheel. You have to take off a plastic cover located near the rear of the cylinder head and top of the block to see the flywheel and rotate the engine to see the distinct mark of TDC on the flywheel.
You also had no 5v ref on the sensor, so probaly more in the ecu broken because I would say with a bad sensor ground only there must be 5 volt ref.
Sounds like a power probe was used. "Let me power this up since it doesn't have any power" not knowing it was a ground circuit resulting in letting the smoke out of the ecu.
That trace became a fusible link.
The waveforms are not as far off as it appears. On waves with spikes not the squares if you look at where breaks are and have the slopes they are opposite directions. So comparing it backwards in sense. Flip one
I know this is old and long since repaired, but the community watching this cmp/ckp waveform for the belt driven TFSI engine should be aware that this engine takes its ckp signal from the intake cam. The belt drives the exhaust cam - if the belt timing checks out the chain is likely the cause.
I had that happen to me. A intake pressure waveform told me that timing was off, but when I pulled the cover off I saw the belt was on and was like what? My buddy came over and was like check the chain. And bam found the problem.
If you watch one of the previous videos u posted testing this you will see what could have possibly caused this issue with you testing
Is it a heat sink adhesive holding the board in place
Thats Thermal paste/compound. To transfer the heat from the ICs from the board to the heat sink/casing.
Need a very thin jumper wire. We use wire wrap wire which is 30 gauge. Probably could get away with one of the cheap Harbor Freight magnifiers you wear on your head. A professional would use a stereoscopic microscope used for PCB repair.
Same thing my customer did . Timingchain tensioner went they cranked it till the battery went dead. Then he jumped it backwards said he saw smoke 😳 . He also screwed up the car he used to jump his car . Smoked alternator and a bunch of fuses 😱😂
Yikes
I have been seen almost 70% of videoz in 3 month now i firmly believe that if may come to UAE and start a garage you can earn more than Tesla. Trust me
Why not use a breakout box for checking sensor ground
The direction of this class was one where we were teaching through ignition systems and having no spark dictated our direction and the steps we took and emphasized. Hope that makes sense
I would still be carefull with the pcb. For an ecu repair guy this is an easy fix with a bodge wire or retrace for little money.
I would not worry about that ecm, because it's fried! Look at all the black smoked checked components. Rule of thumb, if you let the smoke out of the electronics it's smoked check. Lol. Too much current for the circuit
Silicone. Read up on statice electricity and circuit boards. When you feel the zap and sting of static electricity on a doorknob, did you know it had to be at least 3000 volts in order to feel it? Any less than that you won't feel, even though you still conduct it. A PC can be damaged by 100 Vvolts static; much less than 3000. If you touch those parts; therefore, you can damage them even if you didn't feel it pass (no zap).
I dare you to fix it Paul!!!!
The way you opened the ecu you have a brick on your table 😂 next time throw it in the freezer have a beer then open it makes that paste brittle=safer to open. Also putting an external ground can cause drain/parasitic draw
It was already bricked with no intention of repairing it and I wanted my students to see the issue. But for sure, I was not gentle 😉
The pull up or pull down thing sounds like the new math no one understands. Basically and simply a circuit is fed power and needs a ground to conduct. Ground seeking circuit. Or the opposite. Grounded and needs power to conduct. Power seeking circuit. easier to understand.
No sir, this os critical info for INPUT circuit designs. We are not talking about output controls as you suggest. Hall effect sensors have a main power and ground all the time and it is the signal circuit I am referring to.
probably put it back in bad time out of TDC and tried to start it by jumping it with a Miller welder, lol / JK but lmao 🤣
😂😂😂😂😂he cooked it for sure , he could be novice
The main problem with this car is it's a VW.
Cheap, shit parts that's what happened.
Nice.... 🇵🇪👍🏽thnks
Hey Paul, I have something for you, can I send you a message on IG?