Lean Condition and Misfire Troubleshooting - VW/AUDI
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- 2008 VW 2.0 FSI Turbo (GDI system) with a misfire under load and intermittent high and low idle speed complaint. In this video I will show you how to read and interpret measured value blocks (MVB) 32 (LTFT) and 33 (STFT) as well as testing the ignition coils to determine if they are what is causing the misfire.
Trouble codes found in memory are: P2279 (2259200), P0304 (197632), P0507 (329472), P0303 (197376)
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i work on diesel engines and yet its amazing how applicable everything i have learned from ScannerDanner is on that field as well , like Danner always says "fundamentals"
Just wanted to put everyone at ease. This video was filmed last year and my head cold has been long gone. I do not have the coronavirus 🙂
Hear anything about shutting down Rosedale tech for a length of time?
No official word yet
@@ScannerDanner yeah , u had me thinking about that cold?? just kidding , another great video my friend.
corona is bad but that iron city will get ya too
Stay healthy we need you Paul, God bless you and your family!!
Thank you . You are my teacher. Learn a lot from you. Greetings to you and your son. Caleb, your brother, and your family as well
Great to watch Paul 👌🏻 a masterclass , never get bored , everyday is a school day in vehicle mechanics ❤️
Thanks man
Great diag Paul! I recently had a mercedes that I made a video on and the hardest part is finding the information that you need!
Thanks PJ. This video was from the archives. You can tell, no cameraman or Caleb Danner edits.
Wait until you see next weeks. It's our first 4k video and Caleb is a wizard now in Adobe Premier
The 2.0L FSI engine is also known to suffer from valve cover failure due to a sticky or failed diverter valve. This leads to premature and often reoccurring pcv failure and excessive oil use. When changing the pcv it is advised to video scope the large square port in the valve cover along the left hand lower corner for cracks.
I learn from you Fundamentals...and I repair VW also.To bad I can't be yours student...only on UA-cam...Thks a lot for all hard work of teaching us..ALL my respect for you " professor ".
Thank you so much
Great video Paul! Those PCVs go bad all the time on these cars causing a vacuum leak. As a matter of fact, if you were looking for a silver bullet that's the first thing I would've told you to check. The coils go bad often too, good call to change all of them. Thanks for all you do! 👍👍👍
If it’s in your school budget, a dyno is a great tool. Most shops use them for tuning, but they are great for driveability . I use tuning software and techniques for driveability. I call it OBD III.
Another great video Paul! I am studying on your premium channel and have learned soo much! Being a member of the premium channel , I was able to fix a short to ground in the DRL / head lights! I can't thank you enough!
Thank you Robert!
Thanks Paul another great lesson . I like it so much asking for help is a sign of strength not for weakness,this also is a lesson for those who won't to ask for help when they don't know how to fix something.you are a great man. Here in Morocco the german's cars are number one
willkommen to VW... I feel much better watching you struggle with them as much as I did my 1st few go arounds. 5 or 6 VWs summed up in 42 minutes. In the end, your fundamental teachings got me from parts cannon to 90% sure (unfamiliarity and lack of info being the other 10%) and doing the right thing for my customers. Spot on diag and excellent video. Thanks again for teaching me to be an upper tier diagnostician.
Thanks Paul. Think I'll stay away from VW's. Will check out tool page. Try to support all you guy because you share Artie ❤️
Great job! That pcv is reminiscent of the GM (Chevy Cruze) valve cover diaphragm failures. Sometimes customer will complain of a whistling noise upon acceleration on vw and Audi. Always check that pcv. It fails a lot. As far as covers breaking because stuck in grommets, well I've seen it on more than one make ...
Great info on the mvb's!
Positive leads needs to do more vids...not just diag ones either.
H
Good stuff. I was thinking WTF when you grabbed those huge pliers to "help" snap the connector on to the coil. Your reaction when you realized what you have done was classic and yeah I've "been there done that." Your videos are great and have helped an incredible number of people to fix their vehicles worldwide. Your total # of views for all your videos must be like 50 million +!
🙂 it just checked and it's like 90 million lifetime views or something like that
Thanks!
Thank you, Mr Danner. It's very helpful to know that stupid stuff happens to everyone, even the pros, when working on cars.
Great vid Paul, do take more euro cars we all hav a lot to learn from them👍🏾
FSI = Fuel Stratified Injection
FSI - F stands for Folkswagen (or other german word).))
@@Benbou969 wrong
it's the heterogen mixture in the cylinder
Great Diag. Defined what and why. Guessing this car as most, suffers from major neglect. Thank You for the video!
Paul, great video as usual. I remember you saying you had VCDS in a previous video you did with Tommy. I'd recommend using VCDS to get more familiar with MVB measured value blocks etc. On the later CANBUS diagnostic cars like this MK5, you can search for the value you want by its name or definition such as misfire counters.
Fuel stratified injection. These engines have a port flap in every intake pipe separating the intake in two pathways, from up to down and on low rpms they are closed partial on the lower part, forcing the air to twist inside the cylinder upwards to the spark plugs helping the lean mixture to ignite ( note that these pistons on top are designed not flat but it has two recessions like pyramid style to force the intake air to twist with high velocity), at the same time engine injects the fuel directly in the cylinder in the compression stroke just before TDC. By these means achieves an non homogenized mixture (stratified) and saves fuel running pretty lean. Nowadays these engines are being replaced by the TSI. Great video Paul thanks for sharing. 🙏
Paul 😉
@@ScannerDanner i have correct it 😉
That MVB blew my mind! First I've heard of that. I've worked on a few VW's, but none were drivability complaints. That's where I was introduced to the odd world of the TRIPLE-SQUARE socket! What strange engineering that one is! I've also sealed up a leaking vacuum pump by disassembling it successfully - the manual wants you to yank the transmission! NOPE, not today! LOL. My buddy is still driving it 4 years later, leak free and with strong brakes. Then I did an oil pan on a 1.8T Passat - that was NO FUN, let me tell ya. Lots of yelling, cussing and turning the camera off, lol.
Your reaction to Pete handing you that coil was way funnier than you grabbing it, Paul! 😂🤣😂 Too funny! Great stuff as always, brother. 👍🍻
I've got the same engine in my 2006 Audi A3. I swapped out the airbox for a CARB compliant/emissions compliant Air intake setup. That airbox is a total disaster of a design. Good video as always!
Good thing you made it back to the shop can good show
Hi Paul. I saw this video a couple of years ago, but came again after a Ukrainian refugee friend asked me to look at his car, almost identical to the vehicle here. It's funny, I too struggled with that silly engine cover. This car is gonna be a fun project, probably as simple as swapping the PCV and replacing gaskets on the vacuum pump for an oil leak. Cheers!
Good case study using 3 decent sources to prove .Nice to see everyone gets knobbled by a different situation than usual made me giggle !!but respect for what you do .
Paul, because you dont know how somethings works. It doesnt make it a bad design. I pulled of hundreds of covers and coils with this design never had any problems with it. Nice video and diagnose.
For sure. But we all bitch about things we don't know don't we? ;,)
I've had trouble with them too. First one I took off broke. I think by definition, a good design would make it easy and work well, right? Bad design.
Hey Scanner Danner, welcome to our world!!! Put a spot of silicone spray or wd40 on the block post to assist in refitting and removing the cover rubbers
Good to see you tackling a euro box man well done 👍 Nice video 👍 new challenges are good for keeping your thought process sharp . Over the pond in the UK we’re used to these type of “euro boxes”😉 . The leaking PCV unit will probably mean renewing the whole valve cover with genuine parts (after market repair kits won’t last 5 mins) . Usually the plugs go bad & because the coils give a strong spark they soon track to the nearest ground path & once this happens they’ll need renewing as it damages the insulation & for some reason the coils have a metal sleve designed in which acts as a superb earth route (it might be a surpression design to stop the coil interfering with other components) .
The pcv is separate to the valve cover on this EA113 2.0 engine. Genuine parts are supplied separate to the valve cover. Simply bolts on with a few T20 screws. Common failure for the diaphragm to fail inside, hence the bubbling soapy water on top.
The comment on having to work them regualry to be able to work on them rings true.
I work on the euro brand of PSA citroen and Peugeot (which the US will see soon with the current FCA merger bringing jeep and chrysler to the mix)
And they do things backwards all the time
I am an ex VW Master tech, now independent but still see a majority of Euro vehicles.
Those PCV valves on VW and Audi, there is a vent hole on top of the PCV, first thing I do on them if they have lean condition and misfires is put my finger on the vent hole while monitoring idle fuel trims, if the trim improves, the diaphragm in the PCV is split.
You gotta watch out on the TSI, TFSI, FSI engines after you fix the PCV, the fuel trims at idle can misbehave and show very lean (absence of oxygen in the exhaust from unburned fuel) and cold misfires and cruising misfires/surging can occur. This is caused by the intake ports and backs of the intake valves being clogged up with carbon. This occurs because the direct injection takes away the normal cleaning of the intake valves with raw unburned fuel that you see on port injected engines, it is imperitave that these engines have uninterrupted airflow into the combustion chamber because of the fuel burn strategy and very small amounts of fuel used during idle and cruise conditions (the S part of FSI if you will.... Stratified)
Misfires on VW/Audi vehicles with a DSG transmission can feel like a transmission fault.
Oh, clogged intake misfires can feel like an ignition misfire 👍
Oh, another one, front or rear crank seal or both can start leaking after a PCV replacement due to the PCV sucking vacuum (and dust and dirt) through the seal(s).
Good info
Hello Dan, I am from Brazil, we deal with lots of VW here and let me tell you one thing 90% of VW has that stupid cover over the engine it's a pain on the butt, don't feel bad about the broken cover we all do that at one time. let me if I can.... do not remove the grommet from the engine instead just put some Vaseline around the grommet, and it will slip in very nice. I like your channel
It's always fun watching you work on euro cars. I almost fell off my chair when you asked for help to remove the coil and also Pete handing you over the hot coil was gold. The things we find simple and easy like pulling off engine covers you find difficult lol. By the way the measuring value blocks applies to VW Audi Lamborghini Porsche. It includes Skoda and seat but don't think you have them in the states. Thanks for the video.
You don't understand, coils on VW are no joke. They stick real good. They actually make special tools to ease their removal.
@@LynxStarAuto Just so they can save on bolts, right?
There's a special, ministry-approved coil remover over at VW haha it hooks onto the coil housing and you can pop it right up. Although, I rarely use it as I once slammed my knuckles on the hood when I forced the coil out. Used a prybar once and cracked the valve cover too, had to buy the customer a new valve cover because he was standing right next to me lol! Good times.
To be honest, I find it really funny that over there across the pond, VW or Audis and all their systems like VCDS, mvb, basic settings etc. are so exotic for you guys, whilst here, I hate any time I have to use VCDS which is every other day.
In Poland, the gov't has allowed for some time now to register cars shipped from America, so it's the other way around for me, I get to work on Chevy's, V8s, I see a GM and go Wow! I see an Impala or a big-ass 1998 monster of a pickup truck Chevy and I turn my head, haha completely the other way around with the scarcity of information as well. My wife's American so I hope to be able to visit the US one day and just be able to scope out all those cool exotic cars you guys have.
I still struggle with using VCDS for fuel trim. It's weird. One of the worst designed tools ever. It feels like it should go through some user friendly makeover. You have to know the individual measuring blocks, basic settings coding etc etc
All the best!
P.S. would you agree with my thinking that the 032 mvb at load was that high because of all that fuel and air in the #3 cylinder was bring dumped into the exhaust causing the o2 to read a lean condition so the ECU issues a rich command and retains that in memory because the misfire was always present? Is my reasoning good?
Thank danner for vw material.we are not used to pry bar...special thanks to pete he's back
He's not back unfortunately. I miss Pete.
This was from a year ago
Hi Paul put the rubbers back on the air box and put some grease on the rubbers before you put the air box back on and it will come off easily next time. All vw , Audi have air / engine covers held on this way
Good job. You gave me some motivation to fix my Audi I’m going out to the garage right now!
I hope it's not Corona virus
I love those intake bladders too. Just popped mine recently though!
Thanks for the video.
Autel scanner has all of those data pids on the whole live data menu. You dont need to remember the mbv numbers. You just keep scrolling the pid list
Thank brother. Another crystal clear video.
Thx for sharing. fixed me right up. Love your channel. Your the best. You du man. Thx again.
excellent friend Danner thought that it was only me that happened to break pieces... LOL
Mechanic job every day new job good luck.
European vehicles are different, good diagnostics! Can't get over that.....no bolts! Like the jingle used to say, "Volkswagon does it.....again!"
Two very common VW issues. Usually to check for a failed PCV I'll lift off the oil cap and see if it tries to suck back down. My preferred method and a quick way to check for failed internal PCV valves. Anytime I run into something for a check engine light or driveability issue and it has this dumb internal PCV design I'll do this test. It's made short work of more than a few misfires and lean codes.
If the pcv system is functioning correctly, should it try and suck the oil cap down when you lift it off?
@@jdemara
Lightly, yes, it will have a small amount of vacuum under it. When the diaphragm has failed, and there's full vacuum in the crank case, it will nearly suck the cap out of your hand. You'll also hear a drastic change in engine pitch, as you've just allowed for a massive vacuum leak. I've had vehicles where the vacuum was so strong due to the failed PCV system, the cap could not be removed while the engine was running due to the strong suction.
Paul the MWB 14, (Sum) 15 (Cyl.1-3) & 16 (Cyl.4) are your Misfire Counters - The S5 GDI you did has the same style Coils (no screws)
Agreed on the misfire counters.
Anyone else missing missing Tommy's videos?
he has produced a few for me for my premium channel
VW and Audi repairs, sweet. Can we expect a Lambo in the near future?
Nancy was here, thank you for this video
No previews . like to be surprised. 😁
Awesome content as usual
I like a good preview but you're right, this one was too revealing
Next time with the pcv leak try to remove the oil cap and the engine will stall out due to full manifold vac in the crank case. I work for the AA in the uk and we carry coils,plugs and the pcv for them as it’s so regular
Thank you put a heater core in it i got it figured out today thanks
I have to admit that I cracked-up when you called it, "a stupid car" when the condition was that of an ignorant technician admiditly not familiar with the car. Great vids though, keep up the good work.
Ignorant technician sounds harsh lol
@@ScannerDanner Naaaa, we're all ignorant at one point or another. It's the noble thing to admit it (as you did while admitting that you weren't as familiar with VW's) wherever it comes-up. Keep up the great videos.
@@LtBRS true that!
It is stupid to have a mechanism that isn't accessible for easy release and is hidden from view, as in the case of that integrated intake plenum and vanity cover that when removed leaves the grommets behind - that's just poor design. It's also stupid not to have coils mechanically fastened and that rigid primary side harness takes stupid and pointless to a whole new level.
@Tony Rule Word!
Chevy cruze gen 1 have a similar system to where you have smoke billowing out. It acts as a vacuum regulating diaphragm. They rupture and causes leaks. The cruze has a pcv component inside the intake manifold. It also has check valves in the corrugated hose for boost pressure back to turbo. When this happens the transmission will likely act up because it's hunting to keep the engine from stalling so it surges. It's a super interesting topic to study.
It's always a sad day when you look in the back of the intake and find that the little red valve tip is missing..
MG used a very similar set up decades back the rubber diaphragm would crack but in those days you could replace the rubber.
No, smoke should not come out. Had to do many of these
Coils, great set up, and engineering design. You come off as less than professional for a few reasons. Let me know if you are interested in hearing more.
Can't please everyone, and everyone is an expert now, so yeah, I'm good, move along
Great find this one Paul, had to laugh at you struggling to work on European cars lol but you got there in the end, thanks a lot brilliant as usual 👍
Euro cars 🤢🤮
When those covers are hard to get off, I have always sprayed WD40 on the passenger rear grommet and work it until that corner pops up. Then wiggle each corner slowly until they all pop off. I'm going to try the pry bar method next time.
Еще бы субтитры на русском))), но и так сойдет. Буду потихоньку учить английский. Very good 🙃🙃🙃
Peet bent the pin on that coil when he dropped it in the engine bay he fished it out with them paul bunyan pliers and bent it.
Hey Paul next time drive with multiple mvbs 15,16 are for misfire
very good video misfire troubleshooting vw
The motor cover normally is removed very easy. The grommits should not stick on the motor block. I suppose that the cover hasn't been removed for a *looong* time and kind of fused to the notches.
The design of the CoPs is not stupid :P
Bolting them makes only sense if the CoBs are organized as a bar. You have seen yourself how well they stick and stay where they are supposed to be.
Simply push your fingers beneath the connector and pull/pry.
The coils are recommended to be swapped each time the spark plugs are done.
The PCV is housing a closed membrane as far as I recall.
remeber those MVB or get some decent equipment like HexNET or ODIS
Those PCV’s are rubbish! A quick check if you were to get another. Is to try and remove the oil filler cap while it’s idling. If it’s failed badly, you can barely get them off. The vacuum pulls them on real tight! As Tommy said, the coils are also really bad for failing. I think it’s the heat that gets to them the most. They have tried many, many different superseded part numbers. None of them work! 😂. Still nice work though man. (I’m not going to even mention the engine covers! They get freaking tight!)
I thought you was gonna do a give away for that redline easy intake balloon last year? I gave up and had to finally buy one. LOL Great video
too much red tape for giveaways buddy, sorry and I just don't have time to focus on that like other creators do
Your vw master tech should have told you the first thing to check with these codes and this engine type is to loosen the oil filler cap and feel if you can lift it off with running engine. Ruptured pcv valves are common on these engines. 5sec check.
ZeypveldAutosport That would have been a great tip to add to the video.
Excellent diagnosis, I think you nailed it but obviously your out of your normal element. FSI is fuel stratified injection. Part leaking vacuum is called "crankcase vent valve". Crankcase vent valve has a diaphragm and regulates a small amount of vacuum on the crankcase to vent crank pressure. When the diaphram is ruptured it leaks like what you have. MVB 15 and 16 is misfire counters. Vw misfire counters are very good. It probably would have pointed you right to number 3. Grease up the rubber cosmetic cover bushings on reinstallation so the next guy can get it off easier.. WARNING! The crank vent valve diaphragm fails and puts too much vacuum on the crankcase and this can damage the rear main seal, which is a incredibaly crappy design, which could make a vacuum leak even after the crank vent valve is replaced. See my video for more info (different engine though). Also make sure the dipstick has a o-ring to seal it. Plastic part of dipstick that retains the o-ring can break off and disappear and this makes a small vacuum leak, leaking off normal vacuum inside the crankcase.
Paul, put your penguins hat on so you don't get anymore head colds.
Good demo thanks sir
That PVC has time when it should be changed. There is at least 2 different PVC styles on this year model. One with and one without "Crankcasediaphramg"
Engine code is the key here for the right part. Both of these had recormended life time of 3 years or 60000km(~37282miles)
If your VAG seller don't tell it to you. Then look it up from the original part manufacture PDF of that part.
Part manufacture is stamped/written on the part and most likely the google finds the part PDF for you to read in to its job on the engine and most likely life time...
Typical VW customer. Has all the warning lights on LOL!
Eres el mejor amigo...you are the best my friend
Thanks Paul anoter great weekend for your videos
Rosstech is a great place to find measured value blocks
Thank you, brother
I've busted that god forsaken cover too....
A big pick with a 90° pops those coils up nice. 😉
Thanks for video , and good job scanner danner👍👍👍👍👍👍
Classic case of a ruptured pcv diafragm. Not very common on this older gen engines to see failed coils, but it does happen I guess. More common on the tfsi.
Hello teacher, Contact the coil rotted the guy who dropped it, I saw him take the coil out of the pallet
Great video!
Had a 2019 Honda clarity the other day. Fuel trims pegged lean at 1.47, found ethanol content 70%. I suspect they went and got E85.
Crappy coils or do the coils commonly brake down because of the lean conditions these cars are known to have? I've seen so many techs go straight for the misfire and look over the lean condition which likely caused the misfire it's good to see a pro start at the right place and get both the cause and effect... love the videos
Hi Paul. That is a common PCV problem. Some desingn have a repair kit available just for the pcv diaphragm that rips. I have a short video on it.
measured value blocks relate to everything that is VW Group related, not all EU. meaning, Audi, VW, Skoda, Seat, possibly other stuff that VW owns...
Thanks
Welcome
My motto: if it don't go easy. Stop. There is a problem..lol
You look like me when I started working on these...its a learning curve..lol
Grease you cover grommets...Works
Great job!
Thanks for links
Btw those red led displays loose pixels all the time. You can get them rebuilt by sending them out. Normal to see black spots on them..lol
I'm gonna send Pete a heel bar and some mini pry bars!!😁
that's what I use also, but the upper jaw of a pair of channel locks works great too. (no need to disassemble just fold it open and use the upper jaw)
Danner, I'm wondering if you glue the intake cover, good lesson.
EPOXY
"sometimes ya need a prybar" LOL
Tommy used to make a lot of informative videos..I hope he's doing okay !
Petar I’m ok. Lol. I have some editing to do
He is a new father too so we gotta cut him some slack
I totally agree in what you teach but some of my instructors at my college dont agree with your teachings.
Let me guess, no backprobing and no test lights 😃
ScannerDanner . You right. no back probing no test light. They also did not agree on the pull up and pull down design. the video was magneto resistive ABS wheel speed sensor test . U are the best. I wish to meet you one day in person. Thanks for your work
I could give countless examples where the test light is THE tool for the job :-)
ScannerDanner. That would be great. Thanks.
RAPHAEL LETHERY . You totally right. I have worked in 2 shops. They do things different. Some of them say : we don’t do that in that way here. That is not right. It is hard when every repair auto shop does not agree and instructors.Thanks for your comments.
This may be a dumb question, but what does a misfire feel like while driving? It is obvious when it is idling but I've never felt one while driving.
Good job Dan
🖕🖕🖕🤣
FSI = Fuel Stratified Injection
TFSI = Turbo FSI
It's basicly just a high pressure gasoline injection (400 bar or more)
Common issue with the diaphragm on the PCV valve rupturing on these, you often hear a little whistle from it and the oil cap is har to get of from high vacuum innside the whole engine
It's the first thing i check on FSI and TFSI engines.
Have changed several
Vcds is a nice tool for VAG just check the live data on mosfire recognition for syl 1, 2, 3 and 4 and se which one is misfiring, swap around the coils and look if the issue moved.
Coils dies all the time
Muito bom o diagnóstico, parabéns.
Do you know if this tool will work with the verus? TECPEL CA-60 AC/DC current clamp transmitter probe 60A CA-60
Hello sir, i have also a golf 5 gti, and have some problems for over a year and not fixing it. Can you help me with some advice? I can send the codes.
I heard you say that you were getting smoke from the dipstick tube as well as the pcv valve. Did you replace it as well ? Over time the plastic gets brittle & they break. That will give you a vacuum leak as well.
The other way to see if pcv diaphragm is bad is to try taking the oil cap off. If it's hard to take loose & the vacuum trys to pull the cap back down, it's 100% bad !!
I got a kick out you trying to figure out how the coils come out !! ;)
Welcome to the world of Fukengrüven. Where the women can throw you around the room and the beer is served at room temperature.🤣