Im in my garage as we speak trying to figure out why my 64 Chrysler Newport that also has the 413 wedge has no start no spark. Out of frustration I took a break and amazingly ran across your tutorial video. A video explaining the how two's on the same engine is mind blowing. lol After a week of stress I finally got my car started so thank you SO SO MUCH
Awesome Channel,I'm stumped I have a 1971 Scamp 440 ECU controller been thru all your test no spark all test from your video,the negative side of coil not pulsating,when turn over,light dim, but once you release key tries to turn over .any help would be great.thanks
That Power Wagon is f-ing sick! I was in love the Simon & Simon Power wagon back in the 80's with the big wooden front bumper! Rock on DAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My Dad always told me to never leave a vehicle in run while engine is off. In those days every vehicle had an "AUX" position for the ignition key, which would allow teenagers to get into all kind of trouble while listening to the radio with their girlfriends.
I don't know what you're talking about half the time but I find it entertaining and learn a little bit more each time! I hope next time My Intermittent no start Celica stops when I'm at home I have a few more ways to work out whats happening!
This video would've been very helpful years ago. I haven't worked on one of this style in 15 years. One of my friends is putting one of the 70's Mopars back together right now so I'll forward it to him.
I worked on a 70’s Dodge farm truck last summer. Showed the farmer very weak signal from distributor using my “old”vantage. Moved pickup a little closer and it started. Worn shaft. Then I had to rebuild his carb so it would idle. Farm trucks sit all year till harvest time. A real test for my memory. Always enjoy your videos. Del
Awesome video! 2 years ago I working on a 440 and customer complaint was engine dies and won’t restart until it sits over night. I found the coil was failing when hot because the ballast resistors were bypassed allowing constant battery voltage in the run position. This video will definitively help the next time!
With the exception of the height and color, that could be a Lil' Red Express Truck. I had a customer with a 1978 Chrysler Newport with a 400 engine. It had that lean burn system that was very troublesome. The thing backfired and blew the muffler off and then became a crank/no start. Turns out, the ballast resistor went bad and we were able to replace that and it started. By this time, the owner was fed up and traded the thing for a 1984 Mercury Grand Marquis and he drove that 6 years after that. I think 1978 was when Chrysler had to be bailed out the first time. Great video!
Good vid that covered almost everything. One nasty gotcha on these distributor pickups with vacuum advance is the pickup wiring fatiguing inside the distributor. The one that bit me back in the day was a start stall, kinda like an open ballast resistor but didn't die quite as fast. Pickup ohmed out static but the vacuum advance was opening a break in the wiring.
Great no spark diagnostic video! You should warn folks of the danger of cranking too much while attempting to start with regards to fuel build up in the intake & exhaust and the possibilities of backfire once spark is established.
Love this one!!! Mopar electrical diagnosis, you should make more of these with the Big 3 ,I find Chevy to be easiest to diagnose and Ford to be the most difficult . Thanks Paul for all you do !
A spark gap measurement device with increments of spark gap, as shown here, is just a few dollars but will let you know if you have a weak coil/spark signal and save a lot of headaches. Great video!😊
I've been a mechanic for about 25 years. I enjoy watching your videos somethings you show I've done and know how to do and somethings you show I learn something new from you. I've got a vehicle that's got me totally lost thought maybe you have seen it before or have any idea of something to check that I haven't done. It's an 2006 implala ss 5.3. It has a long crank time at times with first cycle of ignition and will start right up on second ignition cycle. It's got cam counts crank counts and rpm 60psi fuel pressure injector pulse and spark when it doesn't start new cam sensor and new computer wires been checked got power and ground and signals when doesn't start. No codes that would cause a no start. No theft codes. I'm lost on this one for sure
@@ScannerDanner fuel pressure is solid 60psi. What I've noticed is if the camshaft stops where the voltage on cam sensor signal wire is high 11v. If I bump the engine over til the cam sensor signal wire is low voltage. 037v. Turn the key off for about 15 seconds to let ecm go to sleep turn key back on the cam sensor signal wire will now have 11v on it instead of the low voltage .037v like it was with key on before turning off. At this time it will not start less you release from crank position to run position then back to crank position with the ignition and it will fire right up like nothing was wrong with it. When it's spinning over and not starting the camshaft counts are counting the camshaft rpms are 0 and not increasing crankshaft counts are counting and rpms are increasing. When you let off from cranking and go back to cranking camshaft counts count and the rpms for the camshaft increase it start right up. Yesterday I made it not start 3 times in a row when putting the camshaft sensor signal on low voltage turn the key off for 15 seconds and try to start it won't start let it stop on the high voltage fire right up every time do tried 4 cam sensors now and a new computer rebuild
Hey thanks for the in-depth explanation ended up just being a bad ground on it my dad's been working on this for 2 weeks all it took was him to ask me and this UA-cam video to be found
This was a great video! I have a 1978 D150 with a 360LA in it. A wire burned, so I took all of the wires off to the bulkhead and started over. I put an Accel coil and an orange box ICM. It has the black mopar VR and the two wire ballast. After rewiring it, I still have a couple of wires to add one being my electric fuel pump and choke. My battery was at 10 volts, and it would turn over but not start... a pretty weak attempt at starting! Tomorrow, I'm going to take a charged battery and try to turn it over, I'll see if that part changes. After getting the fueling going back to the engine, I'll go thru your flowchart with the test light. I don't really like chasing wires, but getting this truck stayed l started, and running was such an accomplishment... it needed an intake gasket because it was backfiring like crazy!
In the day if we had an ignition problem on these systems we always made / added a ground wire from the module to the body. Hope you and your family had a Great Thanksgiving.
My problem I literally just fixed on my 75 Powerwagon 440 was it would crank but no start....fuel was good but no spark....last thing i just switched out was the "brainbox" ....unplugged the harness....plugged in a new unit/hooked a good ground to it...hit the key and BOOM! fired right up for the 1st time in a month lol this video helped me out a ton :)
If you ever need electrical help on your Tin Grille, I am your guy and I love to help! Just get yourself a good incandescent test light for the future, that way I can walk you through tests okay?
@ScannerDanner many thanks....but luckly these old cars and trucks are pretty simple.....if theres fuel but no spark theres only a few things it could be....ballast resistor,voltage regulator,brainbox,coil,distributor, Ignition switch,....it all checked out good and ok....other then the brainbox on fender....got it up and running like a champ again tho:)....I knew it had to be one of those things and did the process of alimentation till I found the culprit...but still figured Id watch your video and see what I could learn from it:) Many thanks :)
Those systems were quite reliable in their day except for the dual ballast resister. They would burn out often. I tried mounting a few in an area under the hood that would be cooler, but it didn't help. We suggested to all of our customers that had Chryslers to carry a spare in the glove box in case it left them stranded. Easy enough to change and would usually fix a no start.
From what I heard its the dual resister system that was an issue. The later single ballast wasn't as bad. Was i told wrong? I keep a spare in the glove box just in case but no issues the last 2 years.
Back in the day, I worked for a trucking company that had a Hot Shot division. We had one old late 70s early 80s Dodge van with a 318 with over 350,000 miles with never a bolt turned on the engine. However, It was never dispatched without two ballast resistors in the glove box! It might run a year on one and next time 30 days. We ran it in all 48 states. The resistor was the only problem we ever had with it. When I left there 16 years later, it was still running.
Great video Paul love that Old School Power Wagon worked on ALOT of them back in the day including A LOT of Breaker Points system.Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving and a safe one.God Bless!
I remember working my dad's 1988 toyota hilux pick up with ballasts,condenser and points set up.timing light and dwell meter were paramount in those days.also I did fry a coil by leaving key on too long.Thanks Danner
I learned to keep a ballast resistor and a wrench in the glovebox for my Chrysler Newport with a 400. My buddy kept them in his 318 Plymouth Satellite too. I was getting ready to get two hardier resistors and make my own.
Thanks for taking the time to make this detailed video! Lots of "us" out there that learn better by visual/audio. Flowchart is a great idea! Altho I'm not in the tin grill gang, I am in the Mopar club, with a 67 cuda, currently chasing elec gremlins lol.
@@ScannerDanner thanks Dan, I've got a channel with videos of my psychosis lol. It's a granddaughter day today, so chk back later. Surprised theres no Chuck Liddell reference in the video?? Lol
@@4spdragtop lol I've heard I look like Chuck Liddell many times. Oh and my name is Paul Danner, but I get "Dan" a lot for obvious reasons. Enjoy your granddaughter day! I am a grandfather as well these days! She is 2 and is amazing! God bless
@@4spdragtop You've installed a push button for the crank circuit why? If you were missing power from the ignition switch, the run circuits could be affected too. Also, there is a cranking bypass circuit for the ballast resistor that provide full system voltage to the coil during cranking. That must be working too.
Back in the day though, you could easily diagnose the ignition module and pick one up at any part store or even Kmart. (Same for FORD) No vehicle specific or programming required. I'll take it over todays crap anytime. No new vehicles for me.
@27:15. Sometimes, people just like to listen to you! Thank you. Totally agree that Ma Mopar didn't finish designing the ignition module for robustness.
On a side note, the later years Mopars had a dual pickup distributor. Start and run pickups in it. And the ignition module was a 4 pin. The start coil would fail and the truck would start after cranking and releasing the key. After dealing with that way too many times, I would just cobble a GM H.E.I. distributor together with a Dodge shaft and be done with all that nonsense lol.
Great video Paul. I miss the old school stuff. We still have alot of older cars down here in Arkansas . I changed alot of breaker points from people leaving key on burning the points closed .if the points was closed with key on.
Years ago, I had a 77 Dodge 4X4 that I used for plowing snow at my transmission shop. One day I for some reason had the key on engine off and there was a strange buzzing sound from under the hood. I get to poking around when I realize that what I'm hearing is my ignition system is going crazy and if I had pulled the coil wire, I would have been bitten like a thousand bald faced hornets all at once. That happened a couple times over the years I owned that truck. I have never seen that happen on any other ignition system.
You're the man you get right to the point and I like your common sense definitely going to subscribe and watch you from now on whenever I got Chrysler problems thank you brother
at 33:16 when you said no flicker, you could have no flicker but with steady light if you are cranking it, due to an open circuit of the ground controlled coil side, because the starter relay is sending 12v when cranking, so in other words when the light flickers and at the moment that it lights, it means it is not energizing the coil. So what happens when I release the key switch to the on position because the engine is already running, how does it send 12v to the coil if the starter relay is not cranking the engine anymore? And second why is 1.5v at the ground side of the coil?
yes sir! We covered what the open ground or control wire would look like even though I didn't crank it over during that simulated bad ground condition. Why didn't I? Because it wouldn't have looked any different than what we have with just the key on. Engine running, the ballast resistor is always in play. At times of low speeds the amount of time that the coil is energized is much longer than at higher RPM, so the ballast heats up and cools accordingly, which increases and decreases voltage to coil+ Thanks! Hope that makes sense
I cant thank you enough for this video. It’s absolutely fantastic. The electrical system has always baffled me (as I’m not all that knowledgeable about electronics.) And this video is exactly what I was needing. As it turns out I’m also fixing up a 1978 Power wagon. It’s a 440 W200 Club Cab with a/c and a long bed. It’s always been my dream truck (thanks to my dad) and now that I have my own I can’t wait to hear it roar back to life. Happy new year and thanks again for such a great video!
Great to hear! Thanks so much! I have another one that will help solidify this for you too ua-cam.com/video/1hWiqXFb-XM/v-deo.html hope you like it and will follow the engine build we are about to do with @JAMSIonline
I can help! Make sure you have an incandescent test light in your hand and are willing to do some testing and I can help. If you go on all of the FB pages all you get is a bunch of guesses
Im watching you video again and I have 11.4 volts to + and - sides of a new installed coil. You suspect the ECU. Its a new too? Maybe I got a bad one. Heres a quick question… Should the casing of transistor that sticks out of ECU light up a testlight? Mine does. Thanks for responding!
I enjoyed this video and it helped in many ways. Except it still didn't cover my issue with no spark on a 79 dodge D150. You went over everything except the Distributor cap which is where my problem was located. I really feel you should have covered everything from battery to spark plug.
The cap itself was your issue? This was about getting good strong spark at the ignition coil itself. I did not cover anything else on the secondary side after the coil intentionally as those are completely separate issues. But point taken, thank you!
1983 dodge trucks with dual pickup coils in the distributor, if pickup coils are bad make sure the new pickup coils have the same color wires as original or it won't start... The local garage here had one and they gave NAPA the part number on the distributor and Napa sold them a new one and when they went to start it no spark, I ran into this in 1989 on a dodge truck with a 360 engine and bought 2 new pickup coils and put them in and NO SPARK, that's when I called the parts man and said the new ones had gray and black wires and my original ones had orange and black, and when I got the correct Pickup coils the truck started right up... LESSON LEARNED on my part and the Partsman's part....
Very useful video and a beautiful truck. My mopar has spark and starts decent but I'm losing 1 volt from the battery to the high side of the ballast. Wiring is pretty new and tried 2 ignition switches but still losing that volt
great video really enjoyed have tested many but still refreshers are so nice i have one of the old Alltest testers that check each part which make it easy you can even fire the coil
Good video. This will be a good reference to look at if I ever have any starting issues with my 70 Monte Carlo with a 396 big block that I removed the points distributor from and installed a Mallory Unilite electronic distributor many years ago. It's been so long ago that I don't even remember how it's hooked up or what components are in the system. I want to think there might be a ballest resister somewhere in the system that I had to install but I'm not sure.
Hi sir, this is awesome stuff. Could you post a clear, slow rolling video of all the diagrams? Each branch of the flow-chart? Can't get into your site. Thanks!
Brilliant explanation. “Electrics for Dummies”! That crank bypass still supplies Voltage to “ECU” backfed THRU ballast. But. I’ve heard the trigger coil in dist has a .5v bias on it. What do you know about that?
I did scope test the pickup coil didn't I? I believe I remember the bias on this but didn't talk about it in this video as the intended audience was different. GM used a 1v bias on there pickups back in the day too. Its just done for noise reasons. To pull the - reference off of battery ground.
Great video. I’m working on a 1975 D200 with electronic ignition. Has no spark 95% of the time. Got spark again seemingly randomly, then lost it overnight. While cranking the motor, should voltage at coil positive be 12V? I’m getting 9.5V on a new coil with a new dual ballast resistor. Leaning towards faulty wiring from battery-ballast resistor-ignition switch, or bad switch. Thanks!
Bypassed the pickup, had a consistent spark. Tried it from the ECU plug end and it worked too. Here’s an update Coil negative has been failing the light test. Had a dim light with no flash in START. No light in RUN. Tried the test this evening, suddenly coil negative had a bright, flashing light in START. Truck fired up, ran for 10 minutes, and died. Now back to a dim light on coil negative with no flash. Coil positive has always tested normal.
@@ianlarson3266 from your description there is one key piece we need to know for 100% accuracy and that is coil primary current flow. You said your test light on coil negative is sometimes dim or not lit at all right? Test light is on battery ground right? If so, then an open in the coil itself can make that light go out, OR a constant ground at the ICM will do the same. With the open coil, you'd have no current flow, with the constant ground at the ICM you would have constant current flow. I'm leaning towards an ICM issue based on your testing so far. When you get this to be a no start again, the bypass test will NOT produce spark if the ICM is the cause. Can we redo that pickup bypass test DURING the no start, no spark condition?
Redid the bypass test under “no spark” conditions and was able to get a spark. Bypass test has never failed to spark. Coil is brand new. You had that mostly correct, coil negative is not lit in RUN, dimly lit with no flash in START. That’s during the times I’m not able to get spark. When I can get spark, coil negative is bright and flashing in START. Tested the ECU plug, 1, 2, and 3 light up with key on. 4 and 5 have 245 ohms or so. Same reading at pickup leads. Once got a consistent reading well into the M ohms. Maybe just a fluke. Cleaned and checked the ground on the ECU itself too. Also, I get a quick snap of spark as I switch the ignition on and off. Even when there’s no spark in START, that snap is always there. Spark is now all over the place, seemingly randomly. When it’s there’s it’s strong.
@@ianlarson3266 if you have confirmed no spark, but you can make it spark every time with the bypass test, this is suggesting a bad pickup in your distributor. The resistance test of the pick up coil only tests the conductor (windings), not the condition or strength of the magnet within the assembly.
I have 10 V on both sides of my coil and I’m pretty sure I have a ground issue with my box. I’m thinking of running a ground wire from the behind the box up to the core support more checking to do.
Next step. Key on, measure the voltage on the housing itself and compare to battery ground. If you have a bad ground, you will read 10v on that housing too! No need to work any harder than that! Ov = bad module 10v = bad ground. Make sense?
Open with the box unplugged I still only have 10 V when I plug the box in I have like 9.69 V or something like that I have 10 or 11 going into the ballast resistor in as soon as I plug the one side of the ballast resistor and it goes 9.69 I’m at a super loss.
that dual ballast is there so you have a start side and a run side. note there is about 5 iderations on mopar electrinic ignitions and the wiring is slightly different on each. the modules had 5 or 7 wires. it was common for one side to go out and it would fire but not run or it would only fire when you let off the key. if it was cranking fast enough it might start but usually not. one side is 5.5 ohm the other is 55. straight battery voltage will kill those ign modules. also the module case needs a good chassis ground as the early ones the case on the switching transister was actually the base connection. that also would kill the modules. if you touched that switching transister and get zapped you have a bad ground.
Not in this case my friend, one side of the ballast feeds low voltage to the ICM (5-pin) and the other side is for the ignition coil. I have heard the 4 pin ICM does not have the low voltage input and uses the single ballast. I really can't find a straight answer as to why we feed low voltage on the one leg of the 5 pin design. But in both cases (single or dual ballast) the crank circuit bypasses the ballast on these. Thanks!
Scanner Danner, thank you for the excellent video, but I still cannot figure out why there is no spark at the spark plugs on my car. I am working on a '71 Road Runner with the 383/4-speed combination. I have conducted a number of the tests demonstrated in your video. Most notably as to results, I do not get a pulsating light on coil negative; the test light is less bright on coil positive but does not become brighter when cranking; and then when conducting the ignition input bypass test, I get no spark at the tester. Based on these results, where should I look next to determine what's causing the no spark issue?
Sounds like the ignition module is your issue. In addition to your cranking bypass circuit not working. You have two problems for sure, but starting with the bypass test, that should have provided spark. Can you give me voltage readings on coil + and - with the key on? I just want to be sure.
@@ScannerDanner Scanner Danner, I apologize, but I should have mentioned that I initially thought the module was the problem and replaced it. I also replaced the coil and ballast resister. So in summary, we are working with a new ignition module, coil and ballast resister. Here are the readings you requested plus a couple of others: Coil Voltage; Positive = 6.5, Negative = .772 Ballast voltage; Input 12.9v, Output 6.88v Also note: There is 12+ volts coming out of the ignition switch at the firewall disconnect; The ignition module is well grounded; The distributor rotor is turning, so the issue is not the timing chain; The distributor pick up coil Ohmed out at 277.4; and I replaced the coil wire but there was still no spark afterward. Finally, the problem first arose as I was backing the car out of the driveway for a routine drive. As I was doing so, the car just quit. There was no preceding noise or problematic running, it just shut off. It was as if there was an on/off switch somewhere, and someone switched it to off. Ever since, there has been no spark. Prior to this occurring, I have had no ignition issues with the car. It has always started and run fine. If you need any additional information or data, please let me know.
@JJohnson-i7h Okay, this helps what you've done so far. Next: 1. What is coil positive and negative voltage during cranking? 2. Ohm out the pick-up coil directly from the ignition module connector (to confirm no opens in the wiring in between the pick-up and the ICM)
Scanner Danner, here are the coil cranking voltage readings you requested: Coil +, 5.75 Coil -, 1.01 You also asked that I ohm the pick-up coil at the ignition module connector, and that reading is 277.4. Let me know if further information is needed.
@@JJohnson-i7h great work! Other than pin contact issues with your ICM and pick-up coil circuit, you are going to need another ICM. I guess the only other thing is to make sure your ICM has battery voltage on one of the pins. I don't remember if you said you checked that or not
I don't know if you'll remember from a year old video but at about minute mark 8:31 you mentioned the voltage on then coil negative was about 1.47 volts and the voltage on the positive was 4.51 volts. That's only a 3.04 voltage drop across the coil. That is about what I'm experiencing on my 69 GTX. That seems to me way too low to run the ignition. Any thoughts on that low voltage. Is that all I need? I'm having hard start issues too. Thanks in advance.
Such a weird design right? Yes, these numbers are normal for key on engine off testing. With it running it will be a little different due to charging system voltage and therefore source voltage being higher. The ignition coil is a low ohm coil and will burn up with straight battery voltage. But here is the key with our systems. That voltage is indeed too low during cranking. So they put in a bypass circuit to supply full battery voltage to coil positive during cranking. This will either come from the starter relay like on my 78 or from the ignition switch crank circuit. Make sure coil positive jumps up to around 9v+ during cranking. If it does not, focus here first.
Will these testing processes also work for a 79 slant 6. The ignition system looks the same as what is on my 79 Massey swather with a 225 slant 6 . I keep having intermittent no start that's why I'm wondering if they functioned the same. Great videos I've learned alot from them thanks 👍👍👍
@ScannerDanner did all the tests for the power side of the module. kept losing power intermittently followed the harness from ignition back to the engine module is mounted on a plate on side of the bell housing. After following the wiring under the floor of the operators platform I found a quick connection on the wire no reason for it but obviously from the factory all the other wiring was continuous except for the power wire from there I could reach the ignition with one hand and reach the connector with the other wiggled it while cranking and away it goes shut it off then wouldn't start wiggled the connection again while cranking and it started turned out the connector was loose and a bit rusty cleaned up and squeezed the connector tighter now have better voltage at end of wire and this is the best this swather has started in a number of years. Thanks again for posting this video on this type of ignition system 👍👍🚜💨💨 Even though this was an older video it still popped up in my feed at an appropriate time lol
How would you diagnose no spark under load at higher rpm on this system? I had that issue on my 85 d150 and turned out it was the ICM. Free rev in park wouldn't act up. When ran for a 30 mins or so it would just kill at 3500-4000 rpm until rpms dropped back down below 2000 but only when driving. It was very odd and thought fuel related at first but it seemed more of like an ignition kill. Replaced the icm out of suspect and it fixed it. Also this is really good info that I will save for later. Would love to see more old school diag on these old trucks. 👍
I'd watch coil firing events with a lab scope under those conditions. Everything else would be too slow to catch it and be accurate enough to make a call. Thank you!
@@ScannerDanner sounds like a good idea. Usually the tell tale sign the icm is bad is usually the goo that flows out the back of them lol. But nah, thank you for your awesome diag skills 😎
What books did you guys like to read to learn more about automotive diag or repair? I just finished popular mechanic's complete car manual and liked it for the simple stuff
Great video, maybe I missed it. My problem- I can start car when cold. It runs then I shut car off it will have a no spark condition. I have to wait maybe 30 minutes then I can get it to start again after long cranking. When car is on and running it runs and drives just fine. Car is 1975 New Yorker. 440 with dual ballast resistor style. What am I missing? Thanks
Do the checks I showed when it is not starting and you have no spark. In particular the ones one coil + and coil - After you have that info I can help, without it, we're just guessing
@@ScannerDanner I have watched your episode on this about 4 times and found out what it was. Thank you! Dual ballast resistor was broken, then I moved on and determined the coil was very weak. Also there was a engine ground wire disconnected. Bought car from guy. Told him deliver it and I will buy it. I looked at it previously. Great car, original 31,000 mile New Yorker. Video coming soon. Your diagrams helped a lot.
Excellent video! Just a quick question for everyone here. When he first took the center coil wire off the distributor and gave it a path to ground with that spark tester, did he set a little gap on it or was it screwed right in making a direct connection?
@Chris just an FYI, even if I completely grounded the secondary side of that coil, the coil control testing I showed for the primary side would still apply and would not have been affected. Now if you were using a lab scope and were watching coil current ramps, you'd have definitely seen a difference the the current ramp pattern
@@ScannerDanner Understood, I guess I was thinking that having it completely shorted might be a bad idea or something. I guess even with a gap, it is still kinda shorted technically? Just to let you in on where my brain was going with this.......there's occasions where I'm a little concerned about stray sparks potentially igniting gasoline when doing work under the hood of my classic car. Troubleshooting (lets say, adjusting the dwell angle for example) with the spark tester fully screwed in would minimize the chance of stray sparks when cranking.
@Chris with no gap, you're shorting the secondary but not in any damaging type of way. The damage occurs when you don't give that spark somewhere to go. So an open secondary is the one to worry about. Hope that makes sense
I'm totally fine with that mod. The fact that the Mopar system energizes the coil primary circuit with just the key on is stupid! But I honestly do not think the GM 4 pin modules are any more reliable. Especially because they would all be made in China these days. As far as a video goes, I won't be doing that mod to mine, so I can't really film it. I can help you if you have any questions though. Of the 4 pins, 2 of them are for the pick up coil and then you would have a direct 12v ignition positive source and coil negative for the other two pins. You can take the ignition positive feed that is being supplied to the ballast and use that as your direct ICM positive. You would also use that same circuit to power coil positive. This would be easier to do with a picture. Post to my forum www.scannerdanner.com an image of what you want to do, along with the suggested diagram and we can talk more about it there. It is free to join my forum. Thank you!
HELP!! I have a 1986 Dodge D250 with the 360ci engine. My coil condenser (located on the negative post on the coil going to ground) is bad. The wire has almost completely broken off, but I can't find it anywhere. Part number on it says 4216885. When i do a search on that part number, it says it's the coil condenser. ( It's a small round cylinder looking part with a two prong mount that screws to the intake manifold for ground and the other end has a black wire to coils ground. But it doesn't quite show up anywhere. I tried Rockauto, advanced auto, auto zone, O Rileys, Car quest with no luck. Any idea what the fix it now? Or new part number is?
@ScannerDanner Yes I did. After I did more online research, I found out what you mentioned to be true. (It's a filter for radio noise). It's not needed, for it to run, and that was my main concern. Thanks for the reply 😁👍
@ScannerDanner I have a 1980 Chrysler New Yorker with a 316 engine and I have discovered this on my car BUT my ballast resistor is also connected to this little round metal device by 2 wires coming from the ballast. I can see that my ballast is cracked, so I was wondering if I need to change it and if so, how would I go about it? Most ballast resistors don't look like mine. AND my module don't have the 4 or 5 points. My car has been doing a LOT of backfiring. Someone tried to do a tuneup and crossed wire 2 and 3 and caused a small fire. Also spark plugs seems wet. Pretty sure I need to change my valve gaskets
Weak spark from the coil itself? 1. Low voltage on coil + 2. High resistance on coil - (which would include the ICM ground? 3. Bad ICM 4. Maybe low voltage to the ICM but unlikely. 5. Bad coil itself
If your meter lead was on bat neg and you measure the voltage on coil +, you are measuring the voltage drop of the coil, the wiring to the ignition module and ground (chassis) back to bat neg. When you moved your lead to coil - you measured the voltage drop of the wiring to the module, chassis ground, and back to bat neg. What is the voltage drop across the resistor and the coil themselves? Can you figure out the coil resistance if you know the circuit amperage? You can also figure out the power the resistor is dissipating.
Technically you're seeing the voltage drop that occurred across the first resistor (the ballast). Of course what you see here will be a factor of both resistors (the coil being the second). There's actually a third one here too and that is the driver. It has not applied a full ground, so there is a resistor or current limiting circuit there too.
I have a 1983 Dodge 318 engine that I had bored .030 and replaced the timing gears and I bought a performance cam. The cam came in a box that was opened. I am having trouble getting it running. If all 8 cylinders have compression, is the cam the right part?
Dr Mopar .... I replaced battery,alternator, coil,dist,electronic control module,voltage regulator,ballast resistor, wiring to all of them. ensured proper grounding,starter relay switch, die electric grease in bulkhead. # 16 and 18 were a little burnt. 72 big block charger and it runs geat,until it dies randomly.voltage drops to 9.6....wait a few mintutes,volts go to 11.6 and fires up. Is it reasonable to suspect the ignition switch? Stimulus check money is almost gone
All of the parts you replaced means nothing. Bad new parts is common these days, especially on our older systems. What are you measuring voltage on? What tests have you done as related to this video?
@@ScannerDanner ...I will try em all. Drove around for 1/2 hour yesterday ran great.Then idling down a hill i noticed voltage drop.and it died Digital cigar light gadget. Had this car for 25 years..never an issue .. Thanks for the response.
Yes! The missing pin is the low voltage input from the 4 pin ballast resistor. They drop that voltage internally on the 4 pin design and no longer need it, so you can now run a 2 pin ballast. But keep your 4 pin, it will work just fine too. You also do not need to change your control module connector. You can plug your 5 pin connector to it. That 5th pin just doesn't go anywhere now.
What would that tell me? Not a lot, but your ignition coil is most likely fine. Finish the tests I showed and tell me what you see. In particular the pick-up coil bypass test and coil + and coil - tests with the test light
ScannerDanner, I didn't realize that the coil would be charged with the key in the run position, I have my radio wired to where it turns on with the key in the run position. As a result of listening to music for a half hour like that, it wouldn't start. Can this damage the coil enough to make the truck die while in heavy stop and go traffic
![Ignition System Testing - Primary Current [Audi A6 part 1 of 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qRvWefjb0F4/mqdefault.jpg)
![Ignition System Testing - Primary Current [Audi A6 part 1 of 2]](/img/tr.png)
![2010 Sonata No Start [What are we missing?]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2n1kQBSHb7A/mqdefault.jpg)
Im in my garage as we speak trying to figure out why my 64 Chrysler Newport that also has the 413 wedge has no start no spark. Out of frustration I took a break and amazingly ran across your tutorial video. A video explaining the how two's on the same engine is mind blowing. lol
After a week of stress I finally got my car started so thank you SO SO MUCH
Awesome! What was your issue?
Awesome Channel,I'm stumped I have a 1971 Scamp 440 ECU controller been thru all your test no spark all test from your video,the negative side of coil not pulsating,when turn over,light dim, but once you release key tries to turn over .any help would be great.thanks
That Power Wagon is f-ing sick! I was in love the Simon & Simon Power wagon back in the 80's with the big wooden front bumper! Rock on DAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thank you Fred!
My Dad always told me to never leave a vehicle in run while engine is off. In those days every vehicle had an "AUX" position for the ignition key, which would allow teenagers to get into all kind of trouble while listening to the radio with their girlfriends.
I don't know what you're talking about half the time but I find it entertaining and learn a little bit more each time! I hope next time My Intermittent no start Celica stops when I'm at home I have a few more ways to work out whats happening!
I have some celica videos with ignition system issues on my sons 94. At least 3 different ones
This video would've been very helpful years ago. I haven't worked on one of this style in 15 years. One of my friends is putting one of the 70's Mopars back together right now so I'll forward it to him.
Thank you!
I worked on a 70’s Dodge farm truck last summer. Showed the farmer very weak signal from distributor using my “old”vantage. Moved pickup a little closer and it started. Worn shaft. Then I had to rebuild his carb so it would idle. Farm trucks sit all year till harvest time. A real test for my memory. Always enjoy your videos.
Del
Awesome video! 2 years ago I working on a 440 and customer complaint was engine dies and won’t restart until it sits over night. I found the coil was failing when hot because the ballast resistors were bypassed allowing constant battery voltage in the run position. This video will definitively help the next time!
I had a 76 power wagon 440. This video brings back good memories and diags i have all but forgotten
With the exception of the height and color, that could be a Lil' Red Express Truck. I had a customer with a 1978 Chrysler Newport with a 400 engine. It had that lean burn system that was very troublesome. The thing backfired and blew the muffler off and then became a crank/no start. Turns out, the ballast resistor went bad and we were able to replace that and it started. By this time, the owner was fed up and traded the thing for a 1984 Mercury Grand Marquis and he drove that 6 years after that. I think 1978 was when Chrysler had to be bailed out the first time. Great video!
Good vid that covered almost everything. One nasty gotcha on these distributor pickups with vacuum advance is the pickup wiring fatiguing inside the distributor. The one that bit me back in the day was a start stall, kinda like an open ballast resistor but didn't die quite as fast. Pickup ohmed out static but the vacuum advance was opening a break in the wiring.
Yup, I had the same issue with a few gm vehicles, the wiring inside the cap to the module would break
Great no spark diagnostic video! You should warn folks of the danger of cranking too much while attempting to start with regards to fuel build up in the intake & exhaust and the possibilities of backfire once spark is established.
Love this one!!! Mopar electrical diagnosis, you should make more of these with the Big 3 ,I find Chevy to be easiest to diagnose and Ford to be the most difficult . Thanks Paul for all you do !
Did your learn to speak by watching Bill and Ted? Awesome diag man
🤣
A spark gap measurement device with increments of spark gap, as shown here, is just a few dollars but will let you know if you have a weak coil/spark signal and save a lot of headaches. Great video!😊
Love watching videos on 70,80 and 90's vehicles! Great job!
I've been a mechanic for about 25 years. I enjoy watching your videos somethings you show I've done and know how to do and somethings you show I learn something new from you. I've got a vehicle that's got me totally lost thought maybe you have seen it before or have any idea of something to check that I haven't done. It's an 2006 implala ss 5.3. It has a long crank time at times with first cycle of ignition and will start right up on second ignition cycle. It's got cam counts crank counts and rpm 60psi fuel pressure injector pulse and spark when it doesn't start new cam sensor and new computer wires been checked got power and ground and signals when doesn't start. No codes that would cause a no start. No theft codes. I'm lost on this one for sure
Leave your fuel psi gauge hooked up overnight and watch it during that first start the next day
@@ScannerDanner fuel pressure is solid 60psi. What I've noticed is if the camshaft stops where the voltage on cam sensor signal wire is high 11v. If I bump the engine over til the cam sensor signal wire is low voltage. 037v. Turn the key off for about 15 seconds to let ecm go to sleep turn key back on the cam sensor signal wire will now have 11v on it instead of the low voltage .037v like it was with key on before turning off. At this time it will not start less you release from crank position to run position then back to crank position with the ignition and it will fire right up like nothing was wrong with it. When it's spinning over and not starting the camshaft counts are counting the camshaft rpms are 0 and not increasing crankshaft counts are counting and rpms are increasing. When you let off from cranking and go back to cranking camshaft counts count and the rpms for the camshaft increase it start right up. Yesterday I made it not start 3 times in a row when putting the camshaft sensor signal on low voltage turn the key off for 15 seconds and try to start it won't start let it stop on the high voltage fire right up every time do tried 4 cam sensors now and a new computer rebuild
Hey thanks for the in-depth explanation ended up just being a bad ground on it my dad's been working on this for 2 weeks all it took was him to ask me and this UA-cam video to be found
Awesome! Glad you were able to find that bad ground using this video.
Thanks!
No problem! Thank you! What was your issue if I may ask?
This was a great video! I have a 1978 D150 with a 360LA in it. A wire burned, so I took all of the wires off to the bulkhead and started over. I put an Accel coil and an orange box ICM. It has the black mopar VR and the two wire ballast. After rewiring it, I still have a couple of wires to add one being my electric fuel pump and choke. My battery was at 10 volts, and it would turn over but not start... a pretty weak attempt at starting! Tomorrow, I'm going to take a charged battery and try to turn it over, I'll see if that part changes. After getting the fueling going back to the engine, I'll go thru your flowchart with the test light. I don't really like chasing wires, but getting this truck stayed l started, and running was such an accomplishment... it needed an intake gasket because it was backfiring like crazy!
Let me know if you have any questions along the way!
In the day if we had an ignition problem on these systems we always made / added a ground wire from the module to the body. Hope you and your family had a Great Thanksgiving.
Glad i watched this , one of the best on this subject , helped me out with my 1971 Australian Charger 245 with electronic distibutor .
Nice! What did you end up finding?
My problem I literally just fixed on my 75 Powerwagon 440 was it would crank but no start....fuel was good but no spark....last thing i just switched out was the "brainbox" ....unplugged the harness....plugged in a new unit/hooked a good ground to it...hit the key and BOOM! fired right up for the 1st time in a month lol this video helped me out a ton :)
If you ever need electrical help on your Tin Grille, I am your guy and I love to help! Just get yourself a good incandescent test light for the future, that way I can walk you through tests okay?
@ScannerDanner many thanks....but luckly these old cars and trucks are pretty simple.....if theres fuel but no spark theres only a few things it could be....ballast resistor,voltage regulator,brainbox,coil,distributor,
Ignition switch,....it all checked out good and ok....other then the brainbox on fender....got it up and running like a champ again tho:)....I knew it had to be one of those things and did the process of alimentation till I found the culprit...but still figured Id watch your video and see what I could learn from it:)
Many thanks :)
Thanks 👍
My teacher
ACCOMPLISHED Sir ScannerDanner
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
Those systems were quite reliable in their day except for the dual ballast resister. They would burn out often. I tried mounting a few in an area under the hood that would be cooler, but it didn't help. We suggested to all of our customers that had Chryslers to carry a spare in the glove box in case it left them stranded. Easy enough to change and would usually fix a no start.
From what I heard its the dual resister system that was an issue. The later single ballast wasn't as bad. Was i told wrong? I keep a spare in the glove box just in case but no issues the last 2 years.
Back in the day, I worked for a trucking company that had a Hot Shot division. We had one old late 70s early 80s Dodge van with a 318 with over 350,000 miles with never a bolt turned on the engine. However, It was never dispatched without two ballast resistors in the glove box! It might run a year on one and next time 30 days. We ran it in all 48 states. The resistor was the only problem we ever had with it. When I left there 16 years later, it was still running.
I used to carry an extra ballast resistor and control module.
Wonder if a more modern power resistor with aluminum housing heat sink be an improvement over that ceramic style resistor?
@@Discretesignals Better yet, convert to GM style or a points - condenser distributor.
Engine looks clean danner. Hope to see you grow your channel. more regular folks will need to fix their own cars in the future...
Thank you!
Спасибо.Очень хорошо изложена методика диагностирования системы зажигания.
Great video Paul love that Old School Power Wagon worked on ALOT of them back in the day including A LOT of Breaker Points system.Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving and a safe one.God Bless!
You two make the best videos ever! Love how you do the hands on testing step by step ...thanks guys truly enjoyed this one ....old school cool !!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you
I remember working my dad's 1988 toyota hilux pick up with ballasts,condenser and points set up.timing light and dwell meter were paramount in those days.also I did fry a coil by leaving key on too long.Thanks Danner
You make everything understandable! Thanks for your instructions! 😊
Thanks for these videos of the older trucks! Love it! Nice Tin Grill BTW!! Keep these kinds of videos coming please.
I learned to keep a ballast resistor and a wrench in the glovebox for my Chrysler Newport with a 400. My buddy kept them in his 318 Plymouth Satellite too. I was getting ready to get two hardier resistors and make my own.
Thanks for taking the time to make this detailed video! Lots of "us" out there that learn better by visual/audio.
Flowchart is a great idea!
Altho I'm not in the tin grill gang, I am in the Mopar club, with a 67 cuda, currently chasing elec gremlins lol.
I'd be happy to help you my friend. Thank you!
@@ScannerDanner thanks Dan, I've got a channel with videos of my psychosis lol. It's a granddaughter day today, so chk back later. Surprised theres no Chuck Liddell reference in the video?? Lol
@@4spdragtop lol I've heard I look like Chuck Liddell many times. Oh and my name is Paul Danner, but I get "Dan" a lot for obvious reasons. Enjoy your granddaughter day! I am a grandfather as well these days! She is 2 and is amazing! God bless
@@ScannerDanner Paul, will using a remote push button starter skew the tests in any way?
@@4spdragtop You've installed a push button for the crank circuit why? If you were missing power from the ignition switch, the run circuits could be affected too.
Also, there is a cranking bypass circuit for the ballast resistor that provide full system voltage to the coil during cranking. That must be working too.
Magnetic pickup coil is 150-900 ohms to be good. My 78 was intermitent and took 6 years to finally catch it failed. Very informative video.
Thank you!
Back in the day though, you could easily diagnose the ignition module and pick one up at any part store or even Kmart. (Same for FORD) No vehicle specific or programming required. I'll take it over todays crap anytime. No new vehicles for me.
@27:15. Sometimes, people just like to listen to you! Thank you. Totally agree that Ma Mopar didn't finish designing the ignition module for robustness.
On a side note, the later years Mopars had a dual pickup distributor. Start and run pickups in it. And the ignition module was a 4 pin. The start coil would fail and the truck would start after cranking and releasing the key. After dealing with that way too many times, I would just cobble a GM H.E.I. distributor together with a Dodge shaft and be done with all that nonsense lol.
Great video Paul. I miss the old school stuff. We still have alot of older cars down here in Arkansas . I changed alot of breaker points from people leaving key on burning the points closed .if the points was closed with key on.
What kind of timeline are we talking about here where starts to become dangerous to the points I wonder?
it depends if the points where closed once the engine stops. There is a chance they are open, in which case no damage will occur
This is going to help me out a lot on my super bee because now I know what to look for
Awesome. If you get stuck, feel free to ask me any questions along the way
Opening scene reminds me of TRUCKS! With Stacey David back when I was an armchair mechanic lol.
🤣 except for the truck fart noise Caleb put in there
Thanks Paul I am working on one right now, thank you
Years ago, I had a 77 Dodge 4X4 that I used for plowing snow at my transmission shop. One day I for some reason had the key on engine off and there was a strange buzzing sound from under the hood. I get to poking around when I realize that what I'm hearing is my ignition system is going crazy and if I had pulled the coil wire, I would have been bitten like a thousand bald faced hornets all at once. That happened a couple times over the years I owned that truck. I have never seen that happen on any other ignition system.
Sept 2023, great video, follow all steps and checks, and found no reluctor pulses. Adjusted the spacing much closer and voila car starts immediately
Sweet! Glad to help. Nice job on your part
You're the man you get right to the point and I like your common sense definitely going to subscribe and watch you from now on whenever I got Chrysler problems thank you brother
Welcome! What are you driving? Just curious
at 33:16 when you said no flicker, you could have no flicker but with steady light if you are cranking it, due to an open circuit of the ground controlled coil side, because the starter relay is sending 12v when cranking, so in other words when the light flickers and at the moment that it lights, it means it is not energizing the coil. So what happens when I release the key switch to the on position because the engine is already running, how does it send 12v to the coil if the starter relay is not cranking the engine anymore?
And second why is 1.5v at the ground side of the coil?
yes sir! We covered what the open ground or control wire would look like even though I didn't crank it over during that simulated bad ground condition. Why didn't I? Because it wouldn't have looked any different than what we have with just the key on.
Engine running, the ballast resistor is always in play. At times of low speeds the amount of time that the coil is energized is much longer than at higher RPM, so the ballast heats up and cools accordingly, which increases and decreases voltage to coil+
Thanks! Hope that makes sense
How did I not know of this channel?!
Thanks for the comment! Glad you found me 🙂
Nice video Danner any update on 86 Celica project
Not yet! We will be starting on it soon
I cant thank you enough for this video. It’s absolutely fantastic. The electrical system has always baffled me (as I’m not all that knowledgeable about electronics.) And this video is exactly what I was needing.
As it turns out I’m also fixing up a 1978 Power wagon. It’s a 440 W200 Club Cab with a/c and a long bed. It’s always been my dream truck (thanks to my dad) and now that I have my own I can’t wait to hear it roar back to life.
Happy new year and thanks again for such a great video!
Great to hear! Thanks so much! I have another one that will help solidify this for you too
ua-cam.com/video/1hWiqXFb-XM/v-deo.html hope you like it and will follow the engine build we are about to do with @JAMSIonline
I can hear Scotty Kilmer saying “you don’t need a big fancy spark testing tool” lol great video Paul hope you and the family had a great thanksgiving!
I wish you were my neighbor!😊
Trying to start this 77 d100 after 20 years.
I can help! Make sure you have an incandescent test light in your hand and are willing to do some testing and I can help. If you go on all of the FB pages all you get is a bunch of guesses
Im watching you video again and I have 11.4 volts to + and - sides of a new installed coil. You suspect the ECU. Its a new too?
Maybe I got a bad one. Heres a quick question…
Should the casing of transistor that sticks out of ECU light up a testlight? Mine does.
Thanks for responding!
@@gturner7 that sounds like a classic bad ground!!
@@gturner7 and no, it should not light a test light connected to battery ground
Ground is good at ecu housing,fender, firewall and engine.
I dont know why its so hard to buy a new ecu in California.
I enjoyed this video and it helped in many ways. Except it still didn't cover my issue with no spark on a 79 dodge D150. You went over everything except the Distributor cap which is where my problem was located. I really feel you should have covered everything from battery to spark plug.
The cap itself was your issue? This was about getting good strong spark at the ignition coil itself. I did not cover anything else on the secondary side after the coil intentionally as those are completely separate issues.
But point taken, thank you!
1983 dodge trucks with dual pickup coils in the distributor, if pickup coils are bad make sure the new pickup coils have the same color wires as original or it won't start... The local garage here had one and they gave NAPA the part number on the distributor and Napa sold them a new one and when they went to start it no spark, I ran into this in 1989 on a dodge truck with a 360 engine and bought 2 new pickup coils and put them in and NO SPARK, that's when I called the parts man and said the new ones had gray and black wires and my original ones had orange and black, and when I got the correct Pickup coils the truck started right up... LESSON LEARNED on my part and the Partsman's part....
Amazing reference video thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Very useful video and a beautiful truck. My mopar has spark and starts decent but I'm losing 1 volt from the battery to the high side of the ballast. Wiring is pretty new and tried 2 ignition switches but still losing that volt
I believe you won't fix that. Are there any driveability issues you're having?
That is a beautiful MoPar brother 😁
thank you!
great video really enjoyed have tested many but still refreshers are so nice i have one of the old Alltest testers that check each part which make it easy you can even fire the coil
Good video. This will be a good reference to look at if I ever have any starting issues with my 70 Monte Carlo with a 396 big block that I removed the points distributor from and installed a Mallory Unilite electronic distributor many years ago. It's been so long ago that I don't even remember how it's hooked up or what components are in the system. I want to think there might be a ballest resister somewhere in the system that I had to install but I'm not sure.
Very cool truck
Great video, thanks!
Hi sir, this is awesome stuff. Could you post a clear, slow rolling video of all the diagrams? Each branch of the flow-chart? Can't get into your site. Thanks!
Why can't you get into my site? Email support@scannerdanner.com and send us any errors you're seeing or problems your having and I'll help you.
Youre the man Paul
Brilliant explanation. “Electrics for Dummies”!
That crank bypass still supplies Voltage to “ECU” backfed THRU ballast.
But. I’ve heard the trigger coil in dist has a .5v bias on it.
What do you know about that?
I did scope test the pickup coil didn't I? I believe I remember the bias on this but didn't talk about it in this video as the intended audience was different.
GM used a 1v bias on there pickups back in the day too. Its just done for noise reasons. To pull the - reference off of battery ground.
You could have said it no better thanks my boy you explain that good appreciate that
Glad to help! Thank you
Very smart man . Subscribed
Thanks and welcome
Great video. I’m working on a 1975 D200 with electronic ignition. Has no spark 95% of the time. Got spark again seemingly randomly, then lost it overnight.
While cranking the motor, should voltage at coil positive be 12V? I’m getting 9.5V on a new coil with a new dual ballast resistor. Leaning towards faulty wiring from battery-ballast resistor-ignition switch, or bad switch. Thanks!
9.5 is good cranking voltage on this system. Focus on control now and do that pickup bypass test I showed
Bypassed the pickup, had a consistent spark. Tried it from the ECU plug end and it worked too.
Here’s an update
Coil negative has been failing the light test. Had a dim light with no flash in START. No light in RUN. Tried the test this evening, suddenly coil negative had a bright, flashing light in START. Truck fired up, ran for 10 minutes, and died. Now back to a dim light on coil negative with no flash. Coil positive has always tested normal.
@@ianlarson3266 from your description there is one key piece we need to know for 100% accuracy and that is coil primary current flow.
You said your test light on coil negative is sometimes dim or not lit at all right?
Test light is on battery ground right?
If so, then an open in the coil itself can make that light go out, OR a constant ground at the ICM will do the same.
With the open coil, you'd have no current flow, with the constant ground at the ICM you would have constant current flow.
I'm leaning towards an ICM issue based on your testing so far.
When you get this to be a no start again, the bypass test will NOT produce spark if the ICM is the cause. Can we redo that pickup bypass test DURING the no start, no spark condition?
Redid the bypass test under “no spark” conditions and was able to get a spark. Bypass test has never failed to spark. Coil is brand new.
You had that mostly correct, coil negative is not lit in RUN, dimly lit with no flash in START. That’s during the times I’m not able to get spark. When I can get spark, coil negative is bright and flashing in START.
Tested the ECU plug, 1, 2, and 3 light up with key on. 4 and 5 have 245 ohms or so. Same reading at pickup leads. Once got a consistent reading well into the M ohms. Maybe just a fluke.
Cleaned and checked the ground on the ECU itself too.
Also, I get a quick snap of spark as I switch the ignition on and off. Even when there’s no spark in START, that snap is always there.
Spark is now all over the place, seemingly randomly. When it’s there’s it’s strong.
@@ianlarson3266 if you have confirmed no spark, but you can make it spark every time with the bypass test, this is suggesting a bad pickup in your distributor. The resistance test of the pick up coil only tests the conductor (windings), not the condition or strength of the magnet within the assembly.
Thank you very helpful !!
Will be helpful when my '85 Dodge has issues.
Excelent as always. 👌
Good stuff!
I have 10 V on both sides of my coil and I’m pretty sure I have a ground issue with my box. I’m thinking of running a ground wire from the behind the box up to the core support more checking to do.
Next step. Key on, measure the voltage on the housing itself and compare to battery ground. If you have a bad ground, you will read 10v on that housing too! No need to work any harder than that! Ov = bad module
10v = bad ground.
Make sense?
@@ScannerDanner yes thanks for pointing me in the right direction
@@mattduke1181 anytime! Glad to help out this community of old mopar guys
Open with the box unplugged I still only have 10 V when I plug the box in I have like 9.69 V or something like that I have 10 or 11 going into the ballast resistor in as soon as I plug the one side of the ballast resistor and it goes 9.69 I’m at a super loss.
@@mattduke1181 sounds like you need an new ICM (box)
yeah mopar stuff, ballast resistor was the weak link on my mopars , as far as a part going bad .
Good info. 👍
Glad it was helpful! Thank you!
that dual ballast is there so you have a start side and a run side. note there is about 5 iderations on mopar electrinic ignitions and the wiring is slightly different on each. the modules had 5 or 7 wires. it was common for one side to go out and it would fire but not run or it would only fire when you let off the key. if it was cranking fast enough it might start but usually not. one side is 5.5 ohm the other is 55. straight battery voltage will kill those ign modules. also the module case needs a good chassis ground as the early ones the case on the switching transister was actually the base connection. that also would kill the modules. if you touched that switching transister and get zapped you have a bad ground.
Not in this case my friend, one side of the ballast feeds low voltage to the ICM (5-pin) and the other side is for the ignition coil. I have heard the 4 pin ICM does not have the low voltage input and uses the single ballast. I really can't find a straight answer as to why we feed low voltage on the one leg of the 5 pin design.
But in both cases (single or dual ballast) the crank circuit bypasses the ballast on these. Thanks!
Scanner Danner, thank you for the excellent video, but I still cannot figure out why there is no spark at the spark plugs on my car. I am working on a '71 Road Runner with the 383/4-speed combination. I have conducted a number of the tests demonstrated in your video. Most notably as to results, I do not get a pulsating light on coil negative; the test light is less bright on coil positive but does not become brighter when cranking; and then when conducting the ignition input bypass test, I get no spark at the tester. Based on these results, where should I look next to determine what's causing the no spark issue?
Sounds like the ignition module is your issue. In addition to your cranking bypass circuit not working. You have two problems for sure, but starting with the bypass test, that should have provided spark.
Can you give me voltage readings on coil + and - with the key on? I just want to be sure.
@@ScannerDanner Scanner Danner, I apologize, but I should have mentioned that I initially thought the module was the problem and replaced it. I also replaced the coil and ballast resister. So in summary, we are working with a new ignition module, coil and ballast resister.
Here are the readings you requested plus a couple of others:
Coil Voltage; Positive = 6.5, Negative = .772
Ballast voltage; Input 12.9v, Output 6.88v
Also note: There is 12+ volts coming out of the ignition switch at the firewall disconnect;
The ignition module is well grounded;
The distributor rotor is turning, so the issue is not the timing chain;
The distributor pick up coil Ohmed out at 277.4; and
I replaced the coil wire but there was still no spark afterward.
Finally, the problem first arose as I was backing the car out of the driveway for a routine drive. As I was doing so, the car just quit. There was no preceding noise or problematic running, it just shut off. It was as if there was an on/off switch somewhere, and someone switched it to off. Ever since, there has been no spark. Prior to this occurring, I have had no ignition issues with the car. It has always started and run fine.
If you need any additional information or data, please let me know.
@JJohnson-i7h
Okay, this helps what you've done so far. Next:
1. What is coil positive and negative voltage during cranking?
2. Ohm out the pick-up coil directly from the ignition module connector (to confirm no opens in the wiring in between the pick-up and the ICM)
Scanner Danner, here are the coil cranking voltage readings you requested:
Coil +, 5.75
Coil -, 1.01
You also asked that I ohm the pick-up coil at the ignition module connector, and that reading is 277.4.
Let me know if further information is needed.
@@JJohnson-i7h great work! Other than pin contact issues with your ICM and pick-up coil circuit, you are going to need another ICM. I guess the only other thing is to make sure your ICM has battery voltage on one of the pins. I don't remember if you said you checked that or not
I don't know if you'll remember from a year old video but at about minute mark 8:31 you mentioned the voltage on then coil negative was about 1.47 volts and the voltage on the positive was 4.51 volts. That's only a 3.04 voltage drop across the coil. That is about what I'm experiencing on my 69 GTX. That seems to me way too low to run the ignition. Any thoughts on that low voltage. Is that all I need? I'm having hard start issues too. Thanks in advance.
Such a weird design right? Yes, these numbers are normal for key on engine off testing. With it running it will be a little different due to charging system voltage and therefore source voltage being higher. The ignition coil is a low ohm coil and will burn up with straight battery voltage.
But here is the key with our systems. That voltage is indeed too low during cranking. So they put in a bypass circuit to supply full battery voltage to coil positive during cranking. This will either come from the starter relay like on my 78 or from the ignition switch crank circuit.
Make sure coil positive jumps up to around 9v+ during cranking. If it does not, focus here first.
Will these testing processes also work for a 79 slant 6. The ignition system looks the same as what is on my 79 Massey swather with a 225 slant 6 . I keep having intermittent no start that's why I'm wondering if they functioned the same. Great videos I've learned alot from them thanks 👍👍👍
I'm pretty sure it is! Let me know what you find or if you have any questions.
@ScannerDanner did all the tests for the power side of the module. kept losing power intermittently followed the harness from ignition back to the engine module is mounted on a plate on side of the bell housing. After following the wiring under the floor of the operators platform I found a quick connection on the wire no reason for it but obviously from the factory all the other wiring was continuous except for the power wire from there I could reach the ignition with one hand and reach the connector with the other wiggled it while cranking and away it goes shut it off then wouldn't start wiggled the connection again while cranking and it started turned out the connector was loose and a bit rusty cleaned up and squeezed the connector tighter now have better voltage at end of wire and this is the best this swather has started in a number of years. Thanks again for posting this video on this type of ignition system 👍👍🚜💨💨
Even though this was an older video it still popped up in my feed at an appropriate time lol
Well done Paul that was great. But what about ACC.
Accessory position? Totally fine, that circuit is not hot in that position
How would you diagnose no spark under load at higher rpm on this system? I had that issue on my 85 d150 and turned out it was the ICM. Free rev in park wouldn't act up. When ran for a 30 mins or so it would just kill at 3500-4000 rpm until rpms dropped back down below 2000 but only when driving. It was very odd and thought fuel related at first but it seemed more of like an ignition kill. Replaced the icm out of suspect and it fixed it.
Also this is really good info that I will save for later. Would love to see more old school diag on these old trucks. 👍
I'd watch coil firing events with a lab scope under those conditions. Everything else would be too slow to catch it and be accurate enough to make a call. Thank you!
@@ScannerDanner sounds like a good idea. Usually the tell tale sign the icm is bad is usually the goo that flows out the back of them lol. But nah, thank you for your awesome diag skills 😎
What books did you guys like to read to learn more about automotive diag or repair? I just finished popular mechanic's complete car manual and liked it for the simple stuff
Great video, maybe I missed it.
My problem- I can start car when cold. It runs then I shut car off it will have a no spark condition. I have to wait maybe 30 minutes then I can get it to start again after long cranking. When car is on and running it runs and drives just fine.
Car is 1975 New Yorker. 440 with dual ballast resistor style. What am I missing? Thanks
Do the checks I showed when it is not starting and you have no spark. In particular the ones one coil + and coil -
After you have that info I can help, without it, we're just guessing
@@ScannerDanner I have watched your episode on this about 4 times and found out what it was. Thank you!
Dual ballast resistor was broken, then I moved on and determined the coil was very weak. Also there was a engine ground wire disconnected.
Bought car from guy. Told him deliver it and I will buy it. I looked at it previously. Great car, original 31,000 mile New Yorker. Video coming soon. Your diagrams helped a lot.
@@garageassembled4701 awesome! Make sure you share a link with me when you get it done!
Next week, seatbelt retractor repair/replacement.
haha indeed!
nice truck
Excellent video! Just a quick question for everyone here. When he first took the center coil wire off the distributor and gave it a path to ground with that spark tester, did he set a little gap on it or was it screwed right in making a direct connection?
I left a gap
@@ScannerDanner Thanks Paul! Awesome video.
@Chris just an FYI, even if I completely grounded the secondary side of that coil, the coil control testing I showed for the primary side would still apply and would not have been affected. Now if you were using a lab scope and were watching coil current ramps, you'd have definitely seen a difference the the current ramp pattern
@@ScannerDanner Understood, I guess I was thinking that having it completely shorted might be a bad idea or something. I guess even with a gap, it is still kinda shorted technically?
Just to let you in on where my brain was going with this.......there's occasions where I'm a little concerned about stray sparks potentially igniting gasoline when doing work under the hood of my classic car. Troubleshooting (lets say, adjusting the dwell angle for example) with the spark tester fully screwed in would minimize the chance of stray sparks when cranking.
@Chris with no gap, you're shorting the secondary but not in any damaging type of way. The damage occurs when you don't give that spark somewhere to go. So an open secondary is the one to worry about. Hope that makes sense
Can you do a thorough video of swapping a mopar engine control module to a GM HEI and removing the ballast resustor? Also thoughts on this mod?
I'm totally fine with that mod. The fact that the Mopar system energizes the coil primary circuit with just the key on is stupid! But I honestly do not think the GM 4 pin modules are any more reliable. Especially because they would all be made in China these days.
As far as a video goes, I won't be doing that mod to mine, so I can't really film it. I can help you if you have any questions though. Of the 4 pins, 2 of them are for the pick up coil and then you would have a direct 12v ignition positive source and coil negative for the other two pins. You can take the ignition positive feed that is being supplied to the ballast and use that as your direct ICM positive. You would also use that same circuit to power coil positive. This would be easier to do with a picture. Post to my forum www.scannerdanner.com an image of what you want to do, along with the suggested diagram and we can talk more about it there. It is free to join my forum.
Thank you!
HELP!! I have a 1986 Dodge D250 with the 360ci engine.
My coil condenser (located on the negative post on the coil going to ground) is bad. The wire has almost completely broken off, but I can't find it anywhere. Part number on it says 4216885. When i do a search on that part number, it says it's the coil condenser. ( It's a small round cylinder looking part with a two prong mount that screws to the intake manifold for ground and the other end has a black wire to coils ground. But it doesn't quite show up anywhere. I tried Rockauto, advanced auto, auto zone, O Rileys, Car quest with no luck.
Any idea what the fix it now? Or new part number is?
Just seeing this now. Did you get it fixed? I think that was just a noise filter for the radio btw
@ScannerDanner Yes I did. After I did more online research, I found out what you mentioned to be true. (It's a filter for radio noise).
It's not needed, for it to run, and that was my main concern.
Thanks for the reply 😁👍
@ScannerDanner I have a 1980 Chrysler New Yorker with a 316 engine and I have discovered this on my car BUT my ballast resistor is also connected to this little round metal device by 2 wires coming from the ballast. I can see that my ballast is cracked, so I was wondering if I need to change it and if so, how would I go about it? Most ballast resistors don't look like mine. AND my module don't have the 4 or 5 points. My car has been doing a LOT of backfiring. Someone tried to do a tuneup and crossed wire 2 and 3 and caused a small fire. Also spark plugs seems wet. Pretty sure I need to change my valve gaskets
Do u have any videos on weak spark mopar.
Weak spark from the coil itself?
1. Low voltage on coil +
2. High resistance on coil - (which would include the ICM ground?
3. Bad ICM
4. Maybe low voltage to the ICM but unlikely.
5. Bad coil itself
If your meter lead was on bat neg and you measure the voltage on coil +, you are measuring the voltage drop of the coil, the wiring to the ignition module and ground (chassis) back to bat neg. When you moved your lead to coil - you measured the voltage drop of the wiring to the module, chassis ground, and back to bat neg. What is the voltage drop across the resistor and the coil themselves? Can you figure out the coil resistance if you know the circuit amperage? You can also figure out the power the resistor is dissipating.
Technically you're seeing the voltage drop that occurred across the first resistor (the ballast). Of course what you see here will be a factor of both resistors (the coil being the second). There's actually a third one here too and that is the driver. It has not applied a full ground, so there is a resistor or current limiting circuit there too.
I have a 1983 Dodge 318 engine that I had bored .030 and replaced the timing gears and I bought a performance cam. The cam came in a box that was opened. I am having trouble getting it running. If all 8 cylinders have compression, is the cam the right part?
Did it run before?
Dr Mopar .... I replaced battery,alternator, coil,dist,electronic control module,voltage regulator,ballast resistor, wiring to all of them. ensured proper grounding,starter relay switch, die electric grease in bulkhead. # 16 and 18 were a little burnt. 72 big block charger and it runs geat,until it dies randomly.voltage drops to 9.6....wait a few mintutes,volts go to 11.6 and fires up. Is it reasonable to suspect the ignition switch? Stimulus check money is almost gone
All of the parts you replaced means nothing. Bad new parts is common these days, especially on our older systems.
What are you measuring voltage on? What tests have you done as related to this video?
@@ScannerDanner ...I will try em all. Drove around for 1/2 hour yesterday ran great.Then idling down a hill i noticed voltage drop.and it died Digital cigar light gadget. Had this car for 25 years..never an issue .. Thanks for the response.
how would a old school simpson 260 dial meter work on the pulse checking?
Not sure.
Good test.
Dan my replacement ignition control unit is coming with only 4 pins yet its fits the part number on the old one. Is that gonna be ok?
Yes! The missing pin is the low voltage input from the 4 pin ballast resistor. They drop that voltage internally on the 4 pin design and no longer need it, so you can now run a 2 pin ballast. But keep your 4 pin, it will work just fine too. You also do not need to change your control module connector.
You can plug your 5 pin connector to it. That 5th pin just doesn't go anywhere now.
I worded this horribly. Let me know if you have any questions
Nice 78 Paul!!!
Could it be the FICM…? 😀☝️👊
So what if your negative terminal on the coil only sparks once? Does not pulse but sparks once when the key is turned on.
What would that tell me? Not a lot, but your ignition coil is most likely fine. Finish the tests I showed and tell me what you see. In particular the pick-up coil bypass test and coil + and coil - tests with the test light
But where do you plug the scanner?
It's between your ears on this system.
ScannerDanner, I didn't realize that the coil would be charged with the key in the run position, I have my radio wired to where it turns on with the key in the run position. As a result of listening to music for a half hour like that, it wouldn't start. Can this damage the coil enough to make the truck die while in heavy stop and go traffic
it can damage the coil and the ignition module itself
Great video thanks for share.
why an led test light would burn testing at coil ground and positive?
Coil - voltage can be as high as 400v when the magnetic field collapses and this will cook an LED type test light
Bud I could really use your help.. I have a 65 dart with slant 6 crank no spark
Sure! What have you checked so far? Is your 65 system still points or what ignition system do you have?
68 new yorker, starts with a hot wire,. were should i look?
Do some of the tests I showed! I need more information to help. What is coil+ and coil- voltage with the key on and then during cranking?