Should I Use an MSD
Вставка
- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Cam Chambers and Jeff Ford explore whether an MSD makes sense on your car.
Discussion points:
Vibration issues
Is it better than other types of ignition like HEI, Duraspark, Pertronix
when should you use an MSD
Pluses of MSD Multi strike, modular components
We also talk about why we are doing this episode and not installing the 6A MSD box.
Thanks for watching and please encourage others to subscribe.
Jford@autorestomod.com
www.patreon.com/gasolinemedia
We stopped buying msd 6a and 6al when Holley Performance Group bought MSD years ago. They fired 300 MSD employees from the Waco factory and moved most production to China. The imported ignition boxes are notoriously unreliable. Warranty was cut to 90 days. We only sell and use Dayton Sensors ignition boxes. Made in Florida with way more features including data logging and they don't burn up like the msd junk.
MSD in El Paso ??
Still advertises Made in USA. ?
@@hotrodray6802 Son it's easier to fool some people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled... if you want to believe that 150 people in El Paso make what 450 people used to make there then you need to pause for some introspection of ones self.
They still make the 7 and 8 series race ignition boxes and msd billet distributor bodies in El Paso. All smaller boxes like the 6 and 6al are made in China just like their distributor gears, blaster coils, LS coils, fuel injection, power grid, Street Fire distributors and the list goes on.
I agree 100%..... I recently had 3 6AL boxes go bad in 2 days.... When i called MSD about this he acted like is a common thing. I'll never buy another MSD product again. I bought a Pertronix Digital HP and it's been great. Small footprint, more options, more power and it's cheaper!
I'll look into Dayton Sensors.
@@hotrodray6802 I lived in El Paso during High School and then enlisted in the USAF. My parents lived a few miles from the MSD office. I dropped by on leave, and picked up a few brochures. That was back in the Mid 90's before I purchased an MSD for my '68 Ranchero.
I have a Pertronix coil and module on my Ranchero from the 90's with MSD wires from around 2010. I ran a Pertronix coil on my '94 Gen 1 Lightning that lasted one year and then I started having issues with the truck missing. It was driving me crazy trying to figure out the issue. I decided to reinstall the MSD Street Fire coil from 2011, and it corrected the issue. Most parts are a crap shoot these days. Yes, the Made in USA stuff typically lasts longer, but no guarantees. I went through nine master cylinders on my Lightning, one was a new Ford part from the local dealer. It was defective. So, you pay more for Made in USA, and you are supporting American workers, but the product may or may not be any better than foreign made products. I prefer Made in USA when I can get it. YMMV.
I agree 100%..... I recently had 3 6AL boxes go bad in 2 days.... When i called MSD about this he acted like is a common thing. I'll never buy another MSD product again. I bought a Pertronix Digital HP and it's been great. Small footprint, more options, more power and it's cheaper!
There ya go!
🔔😎
30 yrs. I'm totally sold on MSD multi spark on ANY engine.
Instant start in any weather. Good low rpm lugging power. Good gas mileage.
But ya gotta run helical core wires 👍👍
426 Hemis and Fox Mustang here😎😎😎
Thanks for the heads up!
I have had a MSD 6AL with MSD Distributor as well as coil in my 65 427 Shelby Cobra. Same set up for 11 years. No problem. Box was mounted under the dash with isolators. 427 side oiler (625 HP).
Is it a digital or analog unit?? Holley is owned by a Private Equity Company now that's a huge problem 😢
I have a 20+ year old Msd 6a 6200 works great. Never had a problem. Car starts instantly. Great product.
Nice!
That’s before china factory MSD newones you lucky 🍀 last 20 Days
Can you do a MSD vs Pertronix video? I'm learning on both, and don't know which would be better for my stock 67 289 motor. What's the pros and cons of both? A short simple video for us beginners would be very helpful
That is a good idea. I'll work on it.
On a different video about Ford FE engines you said you liked the Pertronix style ( built in coil ) distributor. I installed a cheap generic one from Amazon in my 68 Galaxie 390 ( stock 2-bbl so far) and it seems to run fine.
I have had a MSD box mounted on my 68 Mustang, it has been there since the early 90's. I have a MSD coil and I still run points in a stock distributor. I have the MSD box mounted on the inner fender just behind the solenoid on the front on the shock tower. It has lived there for 30 years no problems it was a daily driver for 10 plus years. Since I have rebuilt the 289 and put a mild rv cam in the motor but still have the same set up running edelbrock manifold and holly 650. Nice thing is if the MSD does ever goes bad I just unhook the MSD and run my points and keep on cruising. I know I could squeeze a little extra out by updating the points but I like the simplicity of points and hey its a hobby so its still fun tinkering with the old points. BTW my old 68 f250 still has points too. I guess I am just a simple feller. Take care and love the channel and these little simple shooting the crap videos are a nice deal as well, good luck with the move and take care Jeff and Cam.
My experience is somewhat similar to yours, and mine was also installed at about the same time in a '71 Ranchero. My box was installed in a similar location. Maybe they were just made better then.
Like it!
On the grounds, 100%. I bonded the chassis, to block to frame. The battery is in the back and the ground is connected to the frame and is all bonded to the chassis and frame in the back as well. I didn’t run a separate ground wire to the front, but with all the bonding it works flawlessly and has for 20 years.
They are the lifeblood of the electrical system.
If I remember correctly a lot of counterfeit MSD boxes were coming out of China at one time. Hot Rod magazine did an article on counterfeit parts a few years ago.
Interesting.
I found the Hot Rod article here: www.motortrend.com/news/counterfeit-automotive-products?galleryimageid=34a37f07-4218-4954-9fe4-5040cff6270c
It says that MSD eventually quit making the 6AL and switched to the Digital 6AL.
Those were MSG boxes. I bought one
Still are 😂 an eBay seller has "New" analog units and it's location is listed as "China" 😂 msd stopped producing the analog units many years ago
I had very good experience with my MSD-6A. Ran it back in the '90s on my '71 Ranchero; it was acquired with a 302, Weiand intake with large plenum and short runners, 650 Holley, stock single point distributor, and a cam that I didn't have specs on.
Installing the MSD-6 was the best $100 I invested on that truck (think they go for twice that now). It changed the slightly rough idle into something smooth as glass, and some improvement in drivability. The box was installed on the front of the inner fender, and the anti-vibration kit was used. The buyer didn't care about it when it was sold, so I made sure to keep it.
The other comments make me wonder if, much like other reputable American made products, it suffered after the company was sold or got new management.
Hmmmm.
in 1984 my friend greg pulled up and backed into a parking stall at the donut shop in mission hills (Van Nuys) he could not shut his highboy V8 vega off. he came over and ask me to take a look.. he had just installed a new starter.. i looked there first.. yep. the yellow wire from the R terminal was pinched by the top post on the solenoid.. so turning the key off.. did not shut off the power to the ignition system.. the small block stroker was idling away at about 1800 maybe 2000 RPM.. this is not an average V8 vega.. greg and i are talking about how to shut down the engine.. i can smother the carb and it will die.. No Greg said.. it will foul the spark plugs.. i said.. Greg.. you have an MSD 7A ignition system. fouled spark plugs won't stop it from starting again.. before greg or i can do anything.. gregs friend steve.. says.. i know.. ill pull the coil wire as he steps past us.. leans across the fiberglass front fenders.. reaches toward the mallory pro coil in the firewall. and tries to yank it out of the coil.. those of you that are laughing now know the mallory coil has the wire firmly attached with a bracket .. its not coming out.. but it did come out of the top of the distributor cap as steve yanked really hard.. its really a good thing that steve had his wrist laying across the throttle linkage rod.. as his hand still holding the end of the coil wire was covered in Blue Electricity .. looked like Michael Jacksons glove.. it probably took 10 or 12 seconds for the stroker small block to spin down to a stop.. probably seemed a lot longer than that to steve.. there were about 200 people there that night.. a high speed police chase went past.. that chase went from the middle of the san fernando valley all the way to seal beach and back .. i think it was over 236 miles.. full tank of gas on a big caddy.. but as much as we prodded steve.. who swore he was OK.. he would not do it again.. only 7 or 8 people saw it .. i just thought i would share some not very well known street racing from the mid 80s..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Love this... better than a charged condenser.
Been running the same 6AL in my Camaro since 1999. Zero problems
Awesome!
Im about to watch now (I like to comment twice on channels I really like, before, then after I watch the whole vid). I dont use any electronic ignition. Im a points guy. True, it took years (decades? I feel old!) of doing it in a way that I havent seen anyone else do, and I will do a vid on that at some point, but by now I can set dwell by ear, or just by feeling how the car runs. It doesnt work on other cars, except my own lol but the method does work, and I have saved a few people that had ingitionissues with Petronix, MSDs, and fake versions.
I dont doubt you get a better spark, but I dont like that once it fails, youre dead in the water. Points at least, will get you home, so long as you got a bit of sand paper and a screw driver.
Thanks for the two comments!
@@AutoRestoMod Not a problem. Love the style of your channel. While theres lots of channels for cars, few find that balance of making it interesting and fun! I dont subscribe to that many (hardly any time to watch, always something to work on lol)
The voltage and ground thing are HUGE !! I switched to summit brand
(relabeled Fi-tech) EFI and had lots of issues with warm start ups. Years ago I relocated the battery and used 4 gauge. I switched it out for 2 gauge, added another ground and so far, problem solved. I was blaming the EFI and it was all my fault for inadequate wire size.
I feel that a LOT of ignition issue bad mouthing is honestly ground related...
if you are going to RUN and MSD box.. the spark return is thru the thick black wire.. that needs to be attached to a harness that connects to the back of both heads and the distributor housing.. yes.. 4 wires with one attached to the firewall also.. this shortens the spark return path.. what you thought the spark from the spark plugs just vanished when it went into the engine.. nope..
Cool. We'll look at that.
Always blame the one doing the installation.
I worked in TV, VCR, microwave repair for 7 years.
I know more than the typical individual about electronics.
Still, haven't been able to get one of these boxes to be reliable.
MSD boxes have always worked well for me...
I've honestly never used one. We'll see Saturday.
Hi Guys! I did not know my MSD 6AL box had an adjustment capability for Rev or timing. I need to find a manual and check the settings. Thanks for the info Jeff and Cam. Cheers from Motown.
You are welcome Robert!
I had an MSD on my '68 Ranchero from '95 to 2019. I Never had an issue with it. I removed it to prep for engine compartment restoration.
I had an aftermarket MSD distributor on one of my cars. It was nothing but trouble. The previous owner spent a thousand dollars to get it running before I bought it. I spent another $1300 after it seized up in middle-of-nowhere southern IL before I could make it home.
Well that sucked!
I have been running an MSD 6A for 21 years, yes it's the same box. It's been through four different trucks through the years. At first I thought as you did in that you should run the matching distributor, but I have since went to a stock dura spark distributor and wish I would have done it 21 years ago. I had broke down one day due to a failure in the distributor and was forced to make the swap. After that I took the time to wire in the dura spark wiring plugs into the MSD box so that if it fails I can easily unplug it and replace it with the factory dura spark. I mounted a dura spark box beside the MSD so it's ready to go should I ever need it.
I like that plan. Best of both worlds.
Have had a 6A box in my 68 impala for 20 years. Like it so much just put one in my 77 C10. Mount them high on the firewall in front of the passenger. No problems whatsoever. Both vehicles run MSD HEIs with MSD Blaster 2 coils. Always start always run.
God deal!
Had a 75 Camaro in college. Had stock HEI. The car was old reliable and never let me down. Except once. I had “upgraded” to a MSD 6 box and within 90 days it left me stranded. On a cool fall day parked at school and wouldn’t start at end of day. Was mounted on the inner fender with vibration dampers.
Does happen.
I like all the birds chirping in the background. Makes a nice background soundtrack.
Where were at we have chickens now lol
The MSD street fire boxes are a good sub $200 option if you don’t plan on running NOS or boost on a street build. Been running mine on a SBF daily driver year-round for 2 years with good results.
Thanks for the heads up!
Used MSD boxes and always felt things ran better once I took them off and used just standard HEI.
Interesting.
Hit and miss with MSD, got a stack on the shelf here in the shop.
Make an art piece!
If you want to run HEI , the small cap HEI dizzy is not to bad to look at on a ford. I may swap one into my Fairlane so I can remove the MSD box.
Was thinking about that after the episode.
You will regret it.
Only had 1 bad experience with a brand new msd distributor about 10 years ago. Had maybe less than 2 hours work time on it in shed. So never got to drive car with it. Pickup failed. Older 6al and distributor ive never had troubles with. Used the same 6al box on msd distributor in cleveland and 6cyl bosch style on a 300hp 250ci ford aswell.
Thanks for that!
Ty resto guys 👍
You are welcome
I really like my American Made Daytona Sensors box.
Have tried all ... I'm sticking to points for a daily driver chevy 350.
Nothing worse than stores not inspecting returned items and then putting them right back on the shelf.
True dat.
Those duraspark boxes... I mean I got cj-5s roll thru that still have original boxes. Its impressive. Ive tied Howell TBI kits into MSD 6AL w tach adapter (Howells)w great success. The owner hates pertronix lol Definitely make sure everything else in the ignition system is good. Dont slap a MSD w shaded rotor , dusty ass built up cap.., Dont remember when you put those wires on... All that has to be good it trickles down.
I have a 6-A ( an early one from 89 - 90 ) with a Mallory Unilite on my 392 Chrysler . All I can say is that I have plenty of fire , even after sitting longer than it should . This combination has been in place since we built and started the engine so I'm sure how much of a difference it makes . It does fire up just fine with stale gas ( lol ).
Nice! Thanks for the input.
Ive always had good luck with msd
Good to know!
Like MSD Never broke I start racing 1992..Good Amerikan kvalité 👍👍👍👍👍
I would like to see you guys test out my distributor I have, It’s made by progression ignition. Fully digital and can do blue tooth timing. Vacuum advance is also computer controlled and you can disable ignition with app for security.
That sounds neat! I'll look into it.
@@AutoRestoMod Please do. I know it will get some interest. You can change timing at every rpm while sitting in the car. It shows you a timing table in real time.
I have a 71 challenger and will be reviewing it on my other channel once things are running.
Great info. I putting a Pertronix 2 with a MSD6AL on the 351 Cleveland in my 73 Mach 1, and I'm hoping it goes smoothly. In theory, it should work fine, but .....
Similar, triggered 6AL with pertronix igniter in my 351 boat since 97, no probs.
That theory thing always trippin'
I put a MSD6AL on my 72 Mustang with a 351 rebuilt Windsor ..this past summer .. works great ..
Racing car heat = Richard Petty said the bottom of his feet would get blistered.
Yep. Lots of heat.
Never had the MSD 6 box die. But then it is the old analog box and not the digital.
Nice!
I've always seen a marked improvement in my vehicles when installing MSD boxes. Of course the ones I own and keep transferring from car to car were bought in the late '90's when they were still made in the USA. Screw chicom manufactured crap.
Glad you have had good success.
I have a 6AL box mounted on my inner fender in the engine bay of my 75 F100 4x4 mud truck with a 466. There is alot of space there so heat might not be so intense but it gets covered in mud & water often. I have never had a problem with mine. Knock on wood.
Nice! Sounds like a cool truck!
Just mounted at 6741 on my Jeep. Mounted it below the radio inside. Made a plate, and put coil on the backside, ran drive wire through firewall.
Top of fender well idling with hood up I could barely touch the unit. It ran HOT. MSD said that’s ok… eventually failed…slowly get worse. This time MSD said shouldn’t run that hot…Sent it in for repair. Not fixable: PCB board “carbonized”
Buy another… I don’t think so
my female cousin had an old Chev car that had ign problems. wouldn't shut off so her dad said just pull the coil wire, the fender was metal as was everything else and she was standing in a mud puddle. i have never heard such salty language from a woman. she called her father everything but nice and of course, we were all laughing our a.. off.
Condensers are fun too...
Duraspark IIs all had 10 degrees of start retard. And they are inductive discharge and therefore only spark once. Personally I use the Duraspark II module to trigger a MSD AL with 2 step retard so if the MSD box does quit I can change 3 wires and run on the Ford box. One other thing on the DS II is it is actually just an amplifier for the Hall effect trigger in the distributor.
congrats on reaching that 100k
Never had a problem! 30+ years
Cool!
Msd 6al what should the gap on the spark plug be ?
Back when I used to build hotrods I used to run the Ford EEEEk boxes. LOL At the time I ran an 11:1 429 and used the timing retard on the boxes. Soon after the boxes began to melt down. They would literally melt. I quit using the Ford boxes and went to the aftermarket.
Whew. Not cool. melting leads to fire...
I have a MSD distributor and coil on my smallblock Ford BUT it is triggering a Duraspark-II ignition module, not a MSD CD box...
That works too.
Go with HEI cause when MSD goes bad it's $$$$ and delays to replace it. With HEI, you run down to the local parts store and a couple bucks gets you back on the road.
Good point JD!
Funny about the goo on the duraspark. My dad’s 79 f150 started doing that back in 82. He bought another and put it behind the seat for when it died. Still sitting behind the seat. We have actually caught a rat stuck in the goo. Just something to make you laugh
LOL a rat in the goo?!
@@AutoRestoMod yelp. Ford invented the sticky rat trap and didn’t even know it. Of course we removed the rat carcass but I can send you a picture of fur in the goo. Still there after 30 odd years or more.
wtf?, I didn’t know Ray Liotta was a mechanic??. This guy looks just like him 😂 lol
There you have it, the definitive answer is...maybe.
Yes. If everyone understood how much "ish" there is in the world we'd all do better. LOL
Guys, I have an MSD multiple spark discharge box 6AL #6420 and an MSD distributor # PN8582 I'm putting it in my 65 comet. I bought a new stock starter solenoid and it says do not use on electronic ignition. Is this going to be a problem? Can you send me a drawing on a cocktail napkin showing the wiring from the key to the red wire on the box and the start solenoid? Or do I need some sort of isolation relay? Glen, You re
sponded to a question I sent a month or so ago and your respond time was amazingly short! Thanks
is it ok to install 6al if my honda civic is using electrick power steering, i have 6al used for keeps i want to used it im goong to race again on the streep.ty
I really don't know.
Have you noticed if the Chinese made boxes are inferior to USA made boxes? A year ago, I bought an MSD 6AL box for a new MSD distributor for my 1970 Corvette and it is marked "Made in China." I was agonizing over where to mount the 6AL box because it is so big, and have not yet installed it. Then I saw the new MSD Ultra 6A box which is 65 percent smaller and I knew I would not have trouble finding a place to install it. I bought the Ultra 6A box and noticed that is made in the USA. I feel much better to install a USA made box in my Corvette. I was just wondering if you noticed any quality problems with the Chinese made MSD boxes. It is truly sad that Holley has resorted to having MSD boxes that are made in China.
Hey brother...Holley is now owned by a Private Equity Company there's your problem!!! 😢 Someone in China is also knocking off the old analog units they're on eBay for $260 listed as "New" ...I believe msd discontinued those years ago
I have a 1995 Dodge Dakota 4x4.
I want to switch over to a 650 CFM FST carb.
The only problem I have is, I don't know if the MSD A6L ignition box is what I need to bypass the ECU.
Can you fill me in on anything I am doing wrong.
I haven't tried the setup yet, and I have replaced my fuel pump, installed a fuel regulator, and a points distributor.
Am I overlooking anything?
Honestly, newer than my normal. Since the Dodge has electronic ignition, why change?
Only analog and stack it with a Pertronix 'll with epoxy coil only remember Ford's original yellow mustard shortly coil was epoxy filled not oil.
I currently have an Ignitor to replace the points on my 1964 Ford f250. I have heard of these MSD units and was wondering what is the benefits or if it is worth the investment.
I personally wouldn't put the MSD with the Pertronix. I would just let the Pertronix do all the work for me. Make sure you use their coil with the distributor.
What's your opinion on the MSD Streetfire Dizzy. Having alot of trouble out of mine. Wanting to switch up to a Electronic ignition.
Idk whether to go HEI or External coil type MSD....350sb small cam, Weiand Street Warrior intake Edelbrock avs2 carb in a 82 C10
If you want the ease of an all in one I like Pertronix.
@@AutoRestoMod looking at a pertronix set up rt now.
Hearing better things about them than MSD
MSD = Multiple Spark Despair.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
To hell with points. Mechanical advance or locking out along with a CD box is worth it. Especially if you wind up going EFI and want to run spark advance off the EFI.
In some cases you are right. I still like points for the simplicity.
Night and day difference
Never had a problem with anything MSD.
Glad to know!
If I hook the tach wire up to an hei distributor cap do I even mess with the gray tach wire on the msd ignition box?
No.
@@AutoRestoMod Thanks, I didn't think having both the hei cap and msd ignition box hooked up to tach made much sense lol
Nascar have has compulsory 9" for decades. A 52 year obsolete part!!
MSD? I have had both Crane and MSD boxes give up on me. One on my classic roadcar would work,stop. And restart 10 min later. Why?? Dont know. Replaced it and it works fine all of the time.
Racecar,, got to the racetrack and would not start, had been driven on the trailer the afternoon before. I had it checked, worked on the test. Put it back on the car, it fired, stalled and that was it. So I bought another one. Which so far works fine.
For most motorsport they are essential to get max power from the engine,,HEI for instance starts goin back about 2 deg at 6500 rpm.
Road cars,,,,using unleaded fuel in cars designed for leaded fuels means they run like crap when cold,, after it has started and then are generally not what they should be the rest of the time. Ign box means it starts almost like an efi car and you can drive off immediatly and has noticeable better driveability and power. And you can use a couple more degrees of timing too. That is on 98 octane ULP.. Holley, mild cam etc and points ignition using white wire. You do still have to adjust the points every year or so!
For a stock or mild roadcar the basic [MSD Streetfire] boxes work fine. IF you are turning over 5000 regularly you need the more upmarket ones.
HE ALMOST SAID "NEW SLAVE"😂
megajolt use C.O.P or what ever is another spark box i like the less herd of stuff more features and all that mess .duraspark i like 2 or C.O.P and i read somewhere duraspart did mutispark one of the boxs any how but that was an interweb thing sounded real anyhow
LOL Mega Jolt...isn't that a cola?! Thanks for the input...that made me laugh.
@@AutoRestoMod lol yep 219 or less and a heck of a lot better options with them .this link is a dealer store shop.veracitydata.com/collections/autosport-labs-products?page=2
Some great information as usual.
Thank you!
This video was too much chatter and not enough show. Why not be under the hood of a vehicle and show how to pick a good spot for mounting and show while describing why that is a good spot, etc. Videos where two guys sit around telling bad jokes and not teaching anything is a waste of the viewers time.
Wouldn't waste my money on msd had a new pc7000 dizzy put a msd blaster coil on it the coil blew up in 6 months an took the module on the dizzy out put a Bosch coil an module on it an 15 yrs later is still working the coil is mounted on the ac bracket on my 351c f100 1982 model an no ac an on my 76f250 351c I've got a pc8000 an pc box like a msd an high voltage coil mounted to the inner guard near the hood hinge never had a problem with any of it in 25yrs so look up pro comp electronics an 2 buddies of mine both had msd 1 the 351 reedy to run dizzy broke in 3 months an the other the box died within a year of fitting it an the car was only a weekend cruiser so I know msd has the name but our experience it was junk an my other buddies are guys that know what their doing withover around 30 yrs in auto mechanical trade
Hate that. But I've had similar experiences with parts. I like the Pertronix stuff. Never had a problem with it. Others have not been as lucky.
@@AutoRestoMod if you find something that works stick with it theirs to much junk for sale these days from pop up sellers that you can never get warranty out of
You must have had thye ProComp that actually worked. Garbage parts!!
Why does everyone wave their hands around all the time...
I am a closeted Italian.
Hooked up my msd and i watched it smoke. Hooked up rite wont buy junk anymore.
Ouch that sucks
You are VERY wrong. Bobby wasnt drinking a Bud, nor a Busch lite.
It was a Natty lite. Get it straight LOL
HAHAHAHHAHAAAAaaah. Yeah...you are right.
No.
LOL!
Nice story time very little useful information
Get to the car talk. The senseless rambling is so annoying.
Success rate is too low. I won't buy it.
Chevy boo hoo lol
HA!
Jesus Christ get to the point
I have an HEI distributor. Should I use an external coil or keep my internal coil