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Michael B. Jordan doesn't understand villains...
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- Опубліковано 16 гру 2021
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He's not a villain. He cares about his people. He went about it a different way.
Hitler: LOL same.
The worst part is …..this fitte two well and hitler has possibly more of a reason to do what he did then kill monger
Of course don’t get me wrong hitler has done some of the most horrendous stuff humanity will ever seen
But I have a friend who said best ….hitler is the most human dictateur
In the sense you completely understand what he did
And that what make hitler scary
It the fact he was human and he went this far
LMAO it's true.
Lefturds: "Our society is systemically oppressive and created to enrich the elite and keep our race down!"
Hitler: "So we agree that the [elves] are the problem?"
It's insane how these ideologues cannot see the parallels.
How did you get to keep this comment up. I mention Hitler and get mine removed. Lol but its the same type of comment.
Old joey has been crying out for love from the day his competition driven folks left him crying in the corner...
Sent him of to pwivate school, scapegoated and zero sum gamed his broken lonely ass into a dark oblivion! His energy is screaming out, look at me... LOOK AT ME!
Villains aren't just born they're bred.
Bless the meek hey for they shall inherit the New Earth.
May peace be with you my friend 🙏
@GETREKT47 , Killmonger is just black Hitler, and he’s always been that way even prior to MCU What If series, so I don’t understand how shills can defend a villain like Killmonger in his films.
He betrayed his own people to harm the people he hated. That's not a villain, that's a supervillain.
Magneto repeatedly tried to beat down and even kill the X-Men -- who were mutants, too -- because they dared to stand in his way and say "No" when he wanted to hurt innocent people who never wronged him.
All-Might said it well too when he said it to the deranged, self-pious Shigaraki - "You're nothing but a lunatic. Criminals like you, you always try & make your actions sound noble but admit it, you're only doing it because you like it."
@@AerysTMD Love that show so much. Shigaraki is definitely a psychopath. The sad part about that whole thing is that he's now the leader of a movement that had the aim of liberating themselves from government tyranny of their powers. It's a sympathetic idea being taken over by a complete nut job who just wants to burn down the world.
@@Name-cz5jj identity politics are the politics of stupid people.
No, a super villian is a villian with super powers, duh.
The funny thing is that whole "we want the same thing I'm just willing to do what it takes" is exactly the justification that the villains themselves employ
That's literally the basis of Professor X and Magneto's relationship!
Consequentialist ethics is something that most villainous people tend to employ. That being said, it's also the same ethics that people who ever accomplish anything of lasting value employ. If you ever want to build a successful nation or large corporation, you need to use this kind of brutal tactic. Being nice only gets you so far in life. A hard truth is that your enemies will be using this tactic and you must be prepared to use it back against them if you want to survive and not be enslaved by them. Being nice to oppressive people will not work. Even the bible teaches people that an eye for an eye might leave the whole world blind, but it is still necessary from time to time as long as you are not the aggressor.
@@SomeCanine Do you think “building a nation” is a praiseworthy accomplishment?
@@SomeCanine I agree that violence must be met with violence.
@@Individual_Lives_Matter It depends what you do with that nation. Nations in themselves are amoral. They can be good, bad, or neutral. That being said, you won't even have the chance to build any nation at all if you cower at the thought of being mean.
The fact is that he literally played a racist villain. The fact he isn't even aware of that speaks volumes about the kind of echo chamber these celebrities live in.
he's a leftist. A complete lack of self awareness is required to be a leftist. As well as the ability to distort truth and apply cognitive dissonance.
His name is KILLMONGER.
That's that part that took me right out of the movie. As soon as he started spouting off about slavery (which Wakandans could not have been affected by) and "the ones they threw off the boats", I was out.
He's fully aware his character was racist. But, he like so many other leftists, believe their racism and intolerance is justified.
@@jimthar17 Honestly, the fact that a Black supremacist was the villain was what made the movie based for me. Among other things, it's perhaps the most conservative MCU movie. And yet, retards chant, "Wakanda forever!," and "Black power!". Like, did they watch a different movie, or they never listen to dialogue?
Jordan: “he cares about his people.”
Killmonger: *destroys and rejects the culture and traditions of his people*
Mhm...
funny thing is, most nationalist dictators (like Killmonger) are like this. they are only "nationalist" until the culture and people they "care about" get in the way. almost as if they don't actually care about people and are only using it as a front for power.
Well his "people" aren't a race. He technically is Wakandan, but not all black people are Wakandan. So he's an ethno-nationalist. Not like any of those have existed before. Definitely not in Germany, of all places.
And? BLM does the same thing...
Yeah, it sure looked like he cared about his people in the movie 🙄
@Open-Minded Skeptic Marxist*
Killmonger was willing to commit genocide on a global scale, masked as “empowerment”. Dude’s a villain, plain and simple.
Part of the reason I liked Thanos was in Endgame he gave up on the excuse and basically admitted he was a villain.
@@emberfist8347 That's exactly what I liked about how Thanos was handled. He acts like he cares about some greater good and will go to extremes for it, but deep down he just wanted to be right even if it meant bending reality to make it so he was right. We get the confident idealist act in Infinity War, and the truth slips out when he tries to redo everything his own way in Endgame.
But thanos never admitted he was a villain.
@@mixtapeweezy6871 Trying to destroy the universe and reshape so he is worshipped is what a villain does.
@@emberfist8347 im not disagreeing with you on whether or not he is a villain but you made a claim that was untrue. He never admitted to being a villain. Not even "basically"
Killmongers actions weren’t out of love for his people, they were out of hate and resentment of the “other.”
So, he is like Hordy Jones only Killmonger is a poor example of the woke derrangement.
Exactly.
At least everyone else in Wakanda preferred not to have anything to do with the 'others' of this world. It might have been self-segregation/separatist, but it did so much less harm. The thought that T'Challa wanted to end his country's isolation because he was 'inspired' by Killmonger in some way makes me cringe.
@@Raximus3000 You're inferring there has ever been a 'good' example of woke to compare the poor examples to. ;)
Killmonger is basically like Twiiter
"We're not so different, you and I."
One of the most cliche VILLAIN lines used throughout entertainment.
"The ends justify the means."
-Not-A-Villian
I've only liked this line (well, something similar) in Daredevil. When Kingpin said that he and Matt had a lot in common.
“We’re two sides of the same coin”
That’s funny Green Goblin said the exact same thing to Spider-Man. Lol.
“There’s one thing he doesn’t have. He doesn’t have friends.” Robin about Slade.
Apparently in Michael B. Jordan's world, villains cannot be educated or have a point. But unfortunately, many people think like that too.
So mentally challenged people are villains in their eyes?
I got autism, am i a villain in their eyes?
He thinks villains just twirl their moustaches
"villains can not be educated or have a point" - Doctor Doom enters the chat
That sort of thinking belongs in the dark ages.
This is the same concept people have a hard time wrapping their heads around with the German People in the 30-40s.
They go, "they were so educated and advance, how did they fall for these obvious uneducated thugs and fight for their cause?"
They honestly believe educated people couldn't ever be evil.
"in my point of view, the Jedi are evil."
"I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire."
"If you're not with me, then you're my enemy."
~one of if not the most well-known villain in cinematic history.
Shadilay
"only a Sith deals in absolutes"
-the actual villain
@@Name-cz5jj "I can't be evil! Look at how bright my clothes are!" -Sauron's Fair Form
@@Abyssal86 Except no. Obi-Wan didn’t kill children choke his wife half to death, maim his son torture his daughter and chock people for talking back to him.
@@emberfist8347yeah but the Jedi would let alot of atrocious things happen because it's the jedi way. They are very useless when it counts at times. One thing the sith have is freedom. I would definitely be more on the sith side even if it makes me a villian if it means I can keep my loved ones alive even if they hate me.
Literally the first scene Killmonger was in, he killed a museum full of innocent people just to steal a Wakandan mask. But he's not the villain. OK pal.
That's the *48 Rules Of Power.* Claw did not Killmonger. *ANTI-VILLAIN* Killmonger was a *ANTI-VILLAIN.*
@GETREKT47 *GOOD* & *EVIL* are *Man made Constructs.* So didn't *Darth Vader* Doesn't mean he's *Diabolical.*
@@mr.ComnandoSpawn Cool, I'm gonna man-made construct your brain onto the walls.
@@mr.ComnandoSpawn You're a complete wet brain. Killmonger is a villain. Darth Vader is a villain. FOH with 48 laws of power....
@@wrongthinker843 First get through my M 16 like Killmonger had.
Almost all villains try to justify their actions. How many times have you seen a villain tell the hero "we're the same" ? Nothing ground breaking here, Michael.
Not Joker, Joker very aware of who he is but doesn't care. XD
@@DgardsGaming joker says this in tdk what are u talmbout?
@Lvl 5 Charmander i like to think its cuz its funny using the trope to him rather than actually meaning it. I genuinely cant see how even the joker would rationalize that other than a joke but then again he isnt really big on rationalizing shit
@PixelRelatedismyname You might want to look more into the history of Mother Theresa. She was no saint as it turns out.
Lool joker LOL "you know, you and I... we're both the same lol
"But my intention were good! ..... your honor."
"Guilty."
Hitler: "But I just wanted to secure the future of the my people."
Critical thinking about villains is too hard for these woke idiots on Twitter.
It's almost as if there are forces in the world that want us to empathize with and accept evil.
New spiderman movie. They go out of their way to help them.
@@Shlogger omg, the woke are showing up in new ways . It can't just be a movie. Also cancel culture is bad , so let us cancel criminals and give them no redemption if we can. Yeah, that what we do. We ain't snow flakes .
@@sguardian870 Booo, you on the rag?
Andrew literally cures Dr Connors in his own movie and had always tried to help Electro. Tobey was on good standing with Flint Marco and Doc Ock he also regrets killing his best friend's father so no they aren't trying to make you sympathize with evil or show empathy because these villains were always human first that's why spiderman villains are some of the best. None of this felt overly forced it was a natural progression of their characters which is what matters before anything
@@pieck5460 They're talking about Spider-Man. I'm talking about life.
Honestly, Black Panther is an overrated film. And the thing that annoyed me the most was that moment near the end when Kilmonget starts bitchin about slaves jumping overboard, yet is completely clueless about who sold the slaves to being with. Don't act like the test of the world's the problem when you don't understand your own group.
Spot on BLTN. Spot on. This is never argued in any logical argument from the side like Kilmonger. They never accept this absolute fact you mention here. This is how you shut down that argument quickly.
I guess the movie was made by people who are totally unaware of history, so they can´t write a character who is aware of it.
"My ancestors jumped in the water"
You don't know how ancestry works, do you?
@@kerbalairforce8802 Well technically, as long as those who jumped in the water had kids prior to jumping in the water, then they could still be ancestors.
@@jollygoodfellow3957 ... Alright fare enough... Though that means the kids didn't jump 🤔 ...
So I can just say I can kill a bunch of random people and say it was for a good cause and it's all good?
No. No. No. I would still be classified as a villain, just like Killmonger.
Another example: Plant Nature Girl from Krakoa. I'm still wondering where the real Nature Girl is.
White police officers do it all the time and you support them. So.....it looks realistic to me
@@sguardian870 Wow, aren't YOU showing your bias. Usually when *any* police officer kills someone, it's in self defense. There are only a few bad examples of cops who should never have been given a badge, much less a gun. But let me guess, to you, 'all cops are...?' (I'm sure you'd be the first to finish that sentence. I'm surprised you'd stick to 'white'.)
Calling a certain group of police officers villains is as infantile a thing as I've ever heard. So grow up.
Of course not, you can't just go out and kill random people. You have to kill people who loved and trusted you and then threaten to kill white children.
Good intentions does not absolve you of villainy. So yeah... He was an absolute Psychotic villain.
Its like hes never heard the saying about the road to hell and good intentions...
No villain has good intentions. Killmonger did not have good intentions, they just try to convince people that they do. Trying to justify the evils they want and do commit. This is the case in real life.
@@thecensoredmuscle563 No villain has good intentions. Bizzaro, Mr. Freeze, The Lizard, Man-Bat, Clu, etc have entered the chat.
@@emberfist8347 none of them did from good intentions. You can't exactly commit evils from a good intention. You may attempt to start from a decent intention thought, but then when things get going, the intention ultimately gets twisted, and the results prove that.
Is the intention good if part of that intention includes doing evil things? From an evil heart? If you have to achieve evils to achieve your intention, its not exactly a good intention. Its putting your intention above the lives of others, which in itself is not good. Its coming from pride, it's a prideful intention.
@@thecensoredmuscle563 except this logic can even be applied to life. People rob all the time to save their dying love ones. You can't just say to them to just keep their head up because they're getting help from no one else. Saying this to them is very cold hearted like twisting the knife in their heart.
Killmonger wanted to take over the world and put black people on top, “the way it should be” as he said.
He was radical and irrational. He’s unquestionably the villain.
He overthrew African Utopia and instead of spreading that through all of Africa and rising up his people, he instead took the violent path and wanted to massacre millions.... it's the most racist movie. The movie literally creates and icon that says you can take the black man out of the ghetto but you can't take the ghetto out of the black man.
@@Ashtor1337 No it is saying some people are radical and they exist in all races.
@@emberfist8347 really? I didn't see any other race depicted like this. I didnt see the movie say any other race only succeeded because a space rock altered DNA. I didn't see any other race shown to have a perfect advanced life/society but insist on fighting to the death if needed for leadership. I didn't see any other world literally say fuck Africans as a I'm only worried about black people in America... Seriously watch it again. It's not a celebration black or Africa culture. It's a mockery of it
@@Ashtor1337 You act like other nations haven’t prospered because of their mineral wealth which is the case for 90% of developed countries.
@@Ashtor1337 I agree. That movie is so accidentally ra*ist against blacks it´s hilarious.
Kilmonger was a black supremacist.... how is that not a villain? Black, White, Yellow or Red supremacy of any kind is.... not kind. It's quite dangerous and awful actually. How does genocide-minded ideas make one a hero?
And I was displeased how the film didn’t acknowledge he was worse than his aggressors, and as racist. Not NOOOOOOO, he’s black, he ain’t racist
@@burra007 the film didn't beat you over the head with it but you could tell nearly everyone was uncomfortable with Killmonger. Pretty much only the Border Tribe was on the dude's side. The question is how long would it go on without a coup against him if T'Challa hadn't reappeared?
@@zerrodefex right, but the writing seems to subtly sympathizing with him despite him being a worse racist. They didn’t do the same with Thanos in Endgame, neither did Grant Ward in Agents of SHIELD, let alone Fisk in Daredevil
@@burra007 they absolutely made you sympathize with Thanos. They absolutely showed where Fisk was coming from and from a certain point of view people could sympathize with him. What are you on?
@@machbass yes, but then once they’ve showed their true colors, no further attempts for sympathy were made. If they did, they were still reminded they are monsters
"He studied history, would villains study history?"
YES!
Villains often go trough incredible lengths and hard work to achieve their goals, which often require wide range of skills and knowledge. They're villains because they use those attributes, like tenacity and determination that would otherwise be considered admirable, to achieve goals that are harmful to others. Greatest villains are not idiots that just happened to fumble to success.
If you look outside from comic books to manga, look at Blackbeard from One Piece. Sure he can be dumbass when relaxed, and he makes careless and reckless decisions, but he also made plans that looked decades ahead, and he studies what he needs to know. It has even been confirmed that his hobby is to study history. Why? Because he's smart enough to know what he needs to know to reach his goal! And that's just ONE villain from the whole series, from ONE manga.
I don't know that a villain even needs to have a goal that inherently harms others. There are plenty of villains with admirable or humanitarian goals that are villainous because they are willing to commit heinous acts 'for the greater good'. Heroes self-sacrifice to achieve and villains sacrifice others.
@@Miyuki2319 Yes, that is correct. I was going more for a broad, common definition for villain. But my point still remains don't you think?
@@samuellaakso7012 Absolutely
"Ah yes my character put his entire home country in a civil war, he's totally a good guy."
Wakanda wasn’t even his home country he was born in the United States. So he went to a foreign nation and put it into a civil war which is worse in my book.
Or in a genocidal war that ends up with him in a Fuhrer bunker spouting racist nonsense.
@@emberfist8347 That's the American way...
@@justinwking Hardly.
@@emberfist8347 I wish i was wrong, but looking at the most recent wars, US involvement led to several country’s citizens fighting against fellow citizen, often times because our actions directly destabilized the region.
Killmonger wanted a global race war. He's definitely a villain Jordan.
Every villains are the heroes of their own stories.
well that's not totally true, some embrace their own devilries but you know what I meant.
That testament doesn't work when it comes to the monsters of the world. Serial killers, molesters, and traffickers; no heroic twist can be put on those types.
Well said. As to serial killers, at least some do believe they are either doing something noble or great. Many believe that their victims deserved it for some twisted reason or another and they are the agent of cosmic revenge/justice/etc. Others, likely do not have such a grand view, so it's hard to make sweeping statements about it. However, villains in stories tend strongly toward the first type.
@@Rinesmyth For us, no. But I assure you most of them don't think of themselves as bad.
Magneto, Lex Luthor, Doctor Doom, Brainiac and most every villain ever imagined would agree with you. Hell, even the street level criminals in comics are so self entitled in their own little worlds.
Many of the best villains are convinced that they are the good guys.
Killmonger, Thanos, Hitler, Stalin.😂
@mikael englund lol lol
"He cared about his people, he just had a different way of going about it."
I mean, if you put it that way, Adolf Hitler could be considered the same.
What his character did in his What-If episode and the consequences in the finale, really does shoot down Michel’s argument about Kill-monger hard.
Wakanda was at war with the whole world basically.
And losing.
It made his ultimate ending really satisfying
Exactly, The What If version tells you he is a real supervillain.
@Lujack Shaw
Issues?!
Killmonger is a great villain.
"Villains don't study history". Anyone who's ever learned to manipulate people into facilitating war and genocides has.
Hitler dead-set stopped his generals from attacking moscow because Napoleon had gone straight for moscow and ended up losing. So maybe he's only referring to himself, like "this villain didn't study history"
@@phil245 Hitler Still over extended and lost because of it.
@@michaeldunn8972 he did. What I mean is that they were within reach of a largely undefended moscow at one point, and his generals wanted to go ahead and capture it. Hitler ordered them to move elsewhere because he was superstitious that doing the same thing as Napoleon would cause them to lose in Russia as well. Real point there being that he knew his history
@@michaeldunn8972 That was on his generals. He wanted to make to sure he secured the flanks before he attacked Moscow but the generals didn’t bother and lost
@@phil245 It wasn’t just Napolean’s lesson but also that the Weremacht were still busy fighting in two major cities flanking Moscow and moving them would them exposed.
These people are the villains, that's why they don't see themselves AS villains... They're completely bereft of the Platonic ideals of Goodness, Beauty and Truth.
I think that's absolutely true. I have a theory that this is at the center of why good heroic stories are so hard to come by these days and why what we're getting instead are Mary Sue power fantasies. Everyone knows how much villains love power and how little they care about anything else.
Preach.
I see a "villain" as one who is almost completely under the control of the sin known as hubris,pride. They say that it leads to all the other sins,and that might be true,but more importantly,it makes the villain able to justify all his actions,no matter how brutal they are.
He was a necessary part of the conversation, he cared about his pepole just as much , he studied history. He saw that there was only really was one way of solving things. Yea all those things apply to a German during the 1930’s-1940’s. And they both had the sane ideas about race. Movie kill-monger is ideologically more like mr.88 than Malcom x.
Combat veteran, just like the "Austrian painter". He was a SEAL, apparently.
It's still proof that Michael never read any of the Black Panther books to know more about Killmonger, who was so much WORSE than that.
Malcom himself was like Mr. 88 for a time. The Nation of Islam was similar to Nazism just replace Jews with whites.
@@hellacoorinna9995 I only heard he was in J-SOC
@@emberfist8347 Nation of Islam still hates Jews, they just expanded to hate everyone who's not black.
Most people don't understand villains nowadays either makes them too sympathetic or just pathetic or both. I miss the days when the villain was evil, some force you have to stop
I like when u can understand from where the villain mindset was constructed, but saying a villain isn't one is kinda weird
This is why Palpatine is one of my favorite villains. No shoe-horned tragic backstory, just a person who's unrepentantly evil. It makes it that much more satisfying when the hero defeats him, although I'm not saying all villains have to be that way.
EDIT: Side-note, Darth Vader is also one of my favorites for the opposite reason. He was a hero first who lost his way, he's much more humanized, which makes him a compelling character all around, not just a good villain. But I think Palpatine is the better big bad altogether, because he was purely evil and reveled in every ounce of power he had.
Whos the best villain... Or one of the best? For me, that dude from die Hard or predator 1 ... Classics
@@aztro187 Hans from Die Hard was indeed a great villain.
@@aztro187 SHODAN.
One of the really rough things about villains like Magneto and MCU Killmonger is that the average non affiliated person just fears that everyone described by that group (mutants, in Magneto’s case) may be part of that group and hold the same villainous views, thus strengthening prejudice against that group.
@D-Ron Jamarkus Robinson I know more black people against BLM as opposed to woke white thems that use BLM as a stepping stone. Maybe one day people will realize that the government is just using everyone for their own goals. I saw this while in the Army... People who fought on tv, ate lunch and laughed together on base or in D.C. My tribe still isn't federally recognized because we never actually surrendered.
@D-Ron Jamarkus Robinson let’s be honest though. Most of the black people supporting blm don’t even know what communism/Marxism is, it’s not like they’re openly calling for a Marxist revolution. They’re just caught up in the propaganda and unknowingly supporting a Marxist organization like blm. I can guarantee you that support rate if 84 percent would drop if blm became more transparent with their goals or attempted a bloody revolution
@D-Ron Jamarkus Robinson I am Hispanic and when I was dating a black girl, there was this one dude was black and yelled racial slurs at me because "you gotta date those who look like you", this was at school and the adults kept silent when they heard that, most of the teachers were black and Hispanic, but they rarely ever did stuff to punish him, this guy's full name was Jordan Moore, he even bragged about stealing from people and wanting white slavery alongside shooting Hispanics, I remember how my girlfriend sometimes cried because she had probably never heard a black person be that racist and she used to think BLM was good, but now she knows racism comes in all colors, also one more thing, Jordan Moore is gay and his family are Democrats, another example of hypocrisy
@D-Ron Jamarkus Robinson 84% of the people that support them are like 5% of the community as a haul
Most don’t really even care that much to begin
@@wolfguywerewolfchannel2099 let him wake the path which of he has chosen and once he bear the consequence of his decision
let God sort them out
Caesar in Fallout New Vegas also studied history, guess that makes him a good guy now by Jordan's logic
I was just thinking that! Caesar is a complete maniac who created an entire army of killers who rape, pillage, and terrorize the Mojave. Caesar studied the Roman Empire and decided to have his legion become the modern version of that empire. He destroys communities, owns slaves including children, and hates women. He is the ultimate villain. Michael B. Jordan's logic is incredibly flawed.
@@QuothTheRavenclaw11 Well as he admits in the game, Ceaser’s Legion is more like the Gauls than the Romans. He did a lot of cherry-picking when it came to Roman practices.
@@emberfist8347 Much like how villains in our real world operate. They cherry pick what fits their narrative in order to appear they are right, or to reinforce the idea in their head that they're right and can't be wrong.
Villains don’t tend to see themselves as such. As “inevitable” as he claimed to be, even Thanos claimed altruistic intent in vaporizing half the living organisms in the universe. Like Mary Shelley said: “No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks.” Doesn’t make it right.
Two things:
1. Killmonger is indeed a villain (a lame one, but still a very villainous villain).
2. Black Panther is an absurdly overrated boring film. Didn't like it one bit. Black Panther is a great superhero in the classic comics, but the film was blown out of proportion. I'm sure many people were just afraid of criticizing it.
I think this shows just how far our society has come that we have people sympathizing with villains because they’ve become the villains of our society while believing they’re the hero or an anti hero
I still think the only error Thanos made was being too altruistic and not picking the people to remove, like people who don’t return their shipping cart, first 🤣
@@bitharne No his issue was he wasn’t trying to bone Death like in the comics. 50% was how much he could kill without weakening her because any number above would gradually make her weaker as there are fewer people to die later.
The problem with Thanos was while his actions made sense from his perspective, he was still insane fascist at the end of the day. There's literally no logic behind "50%" It feels more like Thanos just manifested this contrived solution out of laziness. And of course when it proved to not work, instead of conceding, he doubles down. Reaffirming that ONLY HE knows what's best for the whole universe and what he wants supersedes what anyone else wants. That's a villain, period.
@@squeezyjibbz7407 Forget all that for a moment. If you can snap 50 percent of life out of existence, can you not create three times the available resources? Is there a justifiable reason to pick what he did?
This is why we have movies trying to explain why the villains had a sad story that turned them evil. We are absolving them of their actions and while I get that Hollyweird thinks this is adding depth it IMO takes away from the strength of the character. Malificent was my favorite Disney villain growing up as she wasn't obsessed with her looks or power, she wanted respect. When the King didn't show her that she cursed the princess and walked away laughing. Years later when the prince started to mess with her punishment she tried to kill him and was in turn killed. I don't need a backstory about tragedy to know she was a powerful woman who didn't take crap from anyone. Now I have to see the movie as her as a tragic victim? Shes striking out because she's hurt and not because she does what she wants to do? Pathetic!
This is what happens when you're obsessed with subverting expectations not realizing that they've already been done and what you're doing is far from those done well.
Michael drank the kool-aid if he thinks "the ends justify the means" is any near being a coherent argument for Killmonger not being a villain.
I think the mistake Michael B. Jordan is making comes from confusing a villain for a vigilante. Batman is a vigilante. Killmonger is a villain. The difference between them is the evil one is willing to commit in achieving their goal. More importantly, where that evil is directed. Show me a hero that would've killed the museum worker, Forrest Whitakter's character, and their own partner. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even the Punisher doesn't kill the innocent people.
'You think that just because somebody’s the underdog, that means they’re the good guy' -Bull (The Expanse)
In real life, even Batman would become a murderous vigilante. After a while, even Bruce Wayne would succumb to hate and become the monster he hunts. Jordan is just another dumbshit who thinks it's ok to kill whitey.
@John Doe that's up for debate about a real-life batman. If such a man were to exist, I think he would not allow himself to murder. not just on a moral front but also out of pride
@@JohnDoe-pt7ru Except he wouldn’t. He has not taken a life for decades he isn’t going to change that
So if Tony Stark decided to supply the Klan with Iron Man suits cause he thought it would cut down on crime we couldn't call him a villian because he's educated and because he "went about it differently "?
Yeah he's not a villain guys, he just shoots first and asks questions later and tramples anyone in his way. It's for a good cause though. 😐
That's the BLM and Antifa way, so it's no wonder why a moron like Jordan would see things this way about a violent villain.
@@patrickjackson5852 Oh yeah, I'm sure the radicals had a hay day with that character given he's a spitting image of themselves. The funniest part is that he's clearly put in the story to represent what T'Chala _shouldn't_ become, but the delusional leftists completely miss that point, and it gives us people like Jordan.
@@patrickjackson5852 You mean the police.
"...MIT graduate. The guy is very intelligent."
A large chunk of DC villains in existence: doctors or researchers. Just the ones off the top of my head: Harley Quinn (psychiatrist), Victor Fries (cryogenics researcher), Poison Ivy (biochemist).
Just because you're hyper intelligent doesn't mean you're automatically "good." Villains are villains because of their methods, not their intelligence.
There's a thin line between genius and insanity...
On the Marvel side: Curt Connors, Otto Octavius, Dr Doom, Norman Osborne, Mr Sinister, the list goes on and on.
@@burnermail8633 If I remember right Doctor Doom never got his doctorate until he took over Latvaria and ordered he be given one. He was kicked out of university when the experiment that disfigured him backfired. Also Connors has a Jekyll and Hyde thing with him. Curt Connors is a good dude the Lizard is the villain and not as intelligent.
Harley’s backstory flip flops on of she actually earned her degree legitimately. The original Mad Love comic explain she passed because of “extra credit”.
"Killmonger is smart, he's not a villain." Right... So Lex Luthor is the second coming of Jesus, by Jordan's logic.
I would say in terms of ranking evil Lex is lower than Killmonger because he doesn’t to wipe billions of people.
Hahaha. I did think about lex Luther 😕
I hate to go there because, you know, Hitler comparisons are overplayed, but Hitler was also incredibly smart. Didn't stop him from trying to commit worldwide genocide.
"The guy that I'm playing, can't possibly be a villain! He's really smart, and he studied history, and he doesn't see any way forward then to do things the way he's doing things!"
-Michael B Jordan
"Thanos and Magneto have entered the chat"
Funny, he rationalizes just like a villain.
Killmonger: "I'm not evil! I'm black!"
What amazed me was how people never wanted to call Killmonger out when the movie was released that he is a racial supremacist. Not only a racial supremacist, but one that spat on his own culture and history to get what he wants. There was no sympathy from me, even with that flat attempt when he died about dying rather being a slave. What a hypocrite of a villain.
To me he was as bad as Loki because tried to make you feel sympathy for people committing genocide over daddy issues. You know Ultron was at least not lying when he said he wanted peace in our time. His plan would have created that.
Some did point it out. That makes them racist or something though.
In general, the sort of boiled down premise of heroism and villainy works out in my head like this.
A villain will stop at nothing to achieve their own selfish goals, a hero is willing to give everything they have to achieve their selfless goals.
Killmonger wanted to selfishly rule the world and chose to take steps to achieve that goal, in the climax of the film he was attempting to lead a racist genocidal revolution world wide.
He was show as being overwhelmingly selfish in his complete disregard for the traditions of Wakanda, the destruction of the mystic herb garden and his willingness to murder anyone in his way.
burning the mystic herb was a bitch move only a villain would make
Something I took away from the film and its subtle but its there. Killmonger want's to 'help people who look like him' by taking the world over from white people or what ever logic he is using. Killmonger blames other people (white people) and says he wants to help black people but the people who hurt him the most were black.
@@photoncages6040 I think shooting his girlfriend because she was a human shield was a pretty villain thing to do. He didn’t even try to spare her. That shows how little he cares about the people claimed to defend. He just wanted to kill white people because he had daddy issues.
@@Mord12gp And it wasn’t just white people. Remember he was trying to start a conflict on Hong Kong so he wasn’t really caring about his race he just wanted to kill a bunch of people.
In comic books you have clear good and evil. The superheroes embody good and the villains embody evil. The problem today is villains have to be justified or sympathised with. And that can work but your villain is still going to be a villain. Lex Luthor justifies himself by saying superman is an affront to humanity but he’s still the villain.
I think your idea is as destructive as making all the villains sympathetic anti-heroes. at the end of the day, the whole concept is boring if its every single villain. there is a place for evil villains, there is a place for sympathetic villains. it all depends on the writers skill at the end of the day though.
@@Shiirow I believe this where the distinctly human traits creep in. At the end of the day none of us are all evil or all good. However, on one hand we love to see these aspects idealized for various reasons. On the other hand, we also like when they are brought down to our level, where they seem just like us. Relatable and enlightening to our own situations. Too much of either is overkill. Both are awesome when done well.
"Villians never see a monster when they look in the mirror." J. Michael Straczynski
:)
🧢 arguably, Tchallas dad was even a villain. In the movie when he killed his own brother, then tried to hide it, then left his nephew in Oakland??? Villain. Kllmonger killed his own "girlfriend", I'm guessing the girl was his girlfriend. Then killed Klaw, paralyzed a shield agent, broke multiple accordance and laws, killed one of the baldheaded bodyguards, and lied his way into favor with a rival Wakanda tribe. I don't think B Jordan ever even watched his own movie.
Honestly the MCU morality has been messed up for some time
@@Rinesmyth Yeah, they're only so much infighting because their writers fucking suck. It's why I never really vibed with Black Panther his whole faction is villianous if they were "so" advanced. They let slavery and way too wars happen while they pat themselves on the back like they're morally right. Wakanda is Neutral Evil as fuck
It's arguable, but i don't see T'chaka as a villain at all, considering the situation N'Jobu put him in. It can be argued all day whether or not leaving his kid behind was a bad look, but he was ultimately his mother's responsibility, not T'Chaka's. It was messed up that he covered the whole thing up, but "villain" is a stretch.
@@Rinesmyth That's how it is in comic books period. People praise Batman even though he does plenty of things civilians in real life would realistically be arrested for.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 well thing is, if he committed a legit murder of his own brother and covered it up, as much as in the movie The Black Panther was to uphold a certain standard that killing his brother didn't do at all, I'd like to thin that he possibly did a lot more questionable activity. Like he probably got one of his baldheaded bodyguards pregnant and hid that child. As for leaving the nephew, that he totally knew about based on his spy working with his brother, c'mon now. The mothers responsibility?? Was the brother even married? Was the mother even around? That is a super stretch. Not like Tchaka was even helping nephew from afar. Man's disconnected all the way from the boy as far a the movie is concerned. Knowingly. That is a villain by any standard.
This is along the lines of people saying "Magneto was justified in his attempted genocide". Yeahhhh I'm gonna say no
Yeah, sure. Killmonger wasn't a villain, he just wanted to arm people around the world and kill "the white man". And the Red Skull wasn't a villain either, right? Cause he just wanted to "unite" the world under his rule. And Thanos wasn't a villain either, because he was just looking out for the future survival of the universe, right? SMH 🤦
Thanos was fkkin right bruh... SO is alernate Universe Erik, killmonger.
@@captaineri.223 *Ultron was right, not Thanos.
@@captaineri.223 You must love Bill Gates, don't ya? Edge lord.
@@captaineri.223 The only thing he maybe right about is that too much human can caused a catastrophe but he was wrong on what problem that cause.
@@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec He wasn’t even right about that. His plan just delayed the inevitable because without using the stones to alter the birth rates of every species in the universe, he would have just delayed the inevitable.
I'm not the villain... I'm fiery, but mostly peaceful.
If they want to know what a villain is just have them look at the characters they call a hero, that is what a villainy looks like
Thank you for understanding Malcom X. So many people have a view of his ideas pushed onto them by the mainstream.
Ironically, his mindset likely allowed him to play that part better, I’ve always maintained, that for a person to write a good villain, they can’t fundamentally hate that character. You can always tell when a person did.
Yeah, Jared Leto probably hated the Joker in some way.
Idk about that since Ian McDiarmid talked about how irredeemably evil Palpatine was and he was excellent at playing the role.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 Well because he understood the character. Palpatine was a sociopath who lacked empathy but could fake the emotions he couldn’t actually feel.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 I never said anything about thinking the character is evil. Trevor from GTA5 is indisputably evil, but people love him. You can think a character is evil but not hate the character.
It's why villains from feminist shows/ movies are straight cringe. Because the villain is always the embodiment of something they hate with all of their being in their movies, and so they write the character with all the redeeming qualities that they would a zombie.
Killmonger reminds me of Magneto, another villain who demands supremacy for his own kind and has no issue with killing others.
Edit: I’m told Magneto isn’t always a murderer. If so, that makes Killmonger even worse.
Magneto isn't a murderer
@@CopturGobot Are we talking the comic book version or the movie version of Magneto?
Mags is my favorite comic book char of all time but I concede that his origin was literally mutant hitler he's dialed it down over the years a lot more now but his origin was mutant supremacy by any means he was def a villian
@@blacknoise6I was thinking comic tbh. We all know the movies dumb down the characters for normies.
@@CopturGobot Magneto is literally a murderer
Kilmonger was shown to be the Villian in What If... Tony Stark was saved by Killmonger and in the final episode of What If.
His action were nothing, but deceptive and murderous. He kills Tony and T'Challa in that episode.
I spent nearly half the film thinking "Do the writers think Killmonger is in the right? At what point DOES his past justify his choices? If they come down to right and wrong being a matter of circumstance, I am going to be really upset." Thankfully, in the end, they did not! They showed that his evil was writ large on his heart and his justifications were just that, justifications for his desire to disregard, harm, and kill. I am really thankful that the filmmakers presented a challenging moral dilemma, but were brave enough to choose a side. The great Marvel comics used to do that.
Honestly I found he crossed well before the half the movie by the time he killed his girlfriend. A villain would be the only person to do that.
@@emberfist8347 I guess you never had a girlfriend.
_(It's just a joke!)_
@@trublgrl I get it.
Ironic the guy who played the obvious villain didn't know he was playing the obvious villain. Killmonger is as villain as it gets all he was missing was choir chanting his name.
Hell, even his supervillain name, "Killmonger," is almost as blatantly evil as "Doctor Doom"
You're spot on with this. Killmonger wasn't the villain because of his ideology. He was the villain because he was a cold-blooded mass murdering psychopath Lol
Killmonger was a villain because of his ideology and his actions. One was never exclusive from the other since his ideology was the thing that feuled him to believe his actions were perfectly justifiable.
His ideology was basically he was a racial supremacist
@@decepticonxhunter4850 Not exactly. Killmonger's ideology caused T'challa to have a change of heart, and question his own beliefs and morals. Therefore, resulting in his decision to allow Wakanda to utilize their wealth and recourses to aid the world.
Before Killmonger, T'challa was perfectly happy to keep the nation tucked away and hidden.
@@dante340 Yes but T'Challa still rejected Killmonger's racial vengeance driven ideology in favor of a more constructive one that uplifts rather than tears down and creates racial conflict.
@@shadowthehedgehog3113 Exactly. Hence, Killmonger was the villain because of his ruthless and radical methods and carrying out his goals, not solely because of his beliefs.
I don't think this is an issue of a person not understanding "comic book villains", this is about an individual who doesn't understand the difference between good and evil, or right and wrong.
All compelling villains are relatable in some way and make valid points about what is wrong with the world. It's like Eric said, the reason they are villains is that they are willing to forgo their humanity in the service of those ideals. By contrast, heros do not forgo their humanity to achieve their ideals and always suffer because of it.
and his character is unrelatabe and thusly terrible
Heroes tend to be more successful because they keep their humanity. It means they never lose sight of their goal.
@@emberfist8347 Some do toss aside their humanity in some aspects. But usually in a way that is sacrificing something of their own. The chance to love, to have a family, or even the desire for peace. In a way that is tossing aside your humanity. I admit it is a bit different though.
there are villains who come off as more heroes than the heroes but killmonger isn't one of them.
I think it's funny how "Killmonger" is considered such a great villain in the MCU, when he has a terrestrial-based plan akin to Ronan the Accuser, one the supposed worst villains in the MCU.
I'll tell you one thing, at least I remember Killmonger's motivation, even if it was kind of a shit motivation. What even was Ronan's motivation? What about Malekith? This isn't trying to crush your argument or anything, I agree, Killmonger's a shit villain, but I genuinely don't remember Ronan's or Malekith's motivations.
@@KingKayro87 Not at all. My argument was that Killmonger and Ronan are equally good--or bad--villains. If you hold one in high regard, you would logically consider the other good; and if one is bad, then both are.
I've got a really well thought out and nuanced response to his position and it goes a little something like this:
"Uh... He's a villain dude."
Question... do all villains consider themselves villains? Take Magneto, for example. He is fighting for a cause. Although he does have many villainous instances, sucking the admantium from wolverine, etc, but he is fighting for the freedom of mutantkind, in his mind. This was even confusing to the Beyonder, in the original Secret Wars, when he places Magneto in with the heroes, because he feels Magneto's cause is righteous.
Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot thought they were saving their people too. They definitely did not consider themselves villains. We as the audience of history and comic entertainment get to judge.
Magneto is right because of how consistantly stupid human factions are "Let's kill them mutants!" You mean the same mutants that just helped saved the world from an alien invasion, AGAIN? "Yeah fuck them muties"
@@vanessac1721 At least two of those claimed to be saving the world while they invaded their neighbors.
@@ExeErdna
That's why I got sick of the X Men. I always saw the Kill Muties and no one ever did a story where they were accepted that I know of
@@DrakeKnight99 Beast was a well-known mutant, especially after he turned blue and furry. When Beast joined the Avengers in the 1980s he was living the high life - partying with the ladies, getting along with everyone, etc. as a very high-profile mutant member of America's premiere superhero group. His character was socially gregarious and popular with the public. As long as he was appearing in an Avengers comic. Whenever he'd cross over into an X-Man comic, it was back to the whole "kill the muties" thing. It's like no one ever bothered reading anything outside their little fiefdom at Marvel. Kinda like how Spider-Man was constantly yo-yoing between being beloved by the common man on the street and reviled as a menace. Pick a lane, people.
Tchalla: maybe we can still heal you
Killmonger: so I can go to prison nah just throw me in the ocean like mah ancestors who jumped from ships cause they knew death is better than bondage
Audience: so symbolic!
*If They Jumped From The Ships...Then They Are Not Your Ancestors*
Killmonger: math lady meme intensifies
IMO the best line from a villain in a movie.
"You kill three people, they call you a murderer. You kill a million people, they call you a conqueror. Go figure."
~ John Lithgow as Eric Qualen in the movie Cliffhanger (1993)
From a method acting perspective it's good that Michael B. Jordan believes in the perspective of his character but, as a comic book fan he should know that his character was not Killmonger as was definitely a villain.
Cmon man. This aint hard to figure out.
Jordan understands villains perfectly.
You arent understanding his point of reference.
It is clear what Jordan is talking about.
Genocide is ok as long as the "(wh)right" people are dying.
I think the fact that he chose the name killmonger shows that hes the bad guy.
That and he was turned into Victor Zsasz.
His character calls himself "Killmonger", meaning he is a proud killer, pretty sure he even introduced himself to the court in Wakanda bragging about his exploits in killing others, how the F is that not a villain? 🤪
I know they say every villain is the hero of their own story but I didn't think it also blinded actors to the truth of their roles. 🤨
It and I read the weird bumps on his body was his way of keeping score of how many people killed.
@@emberfist8347 So he's an even crazier and more murderous version of Zsasz from Batman, who carves tally marks on his body to keep track of his body count. Yeah. *that's* not villainous in the least, what gives you that idea?
I’m not shocked with how looney normies love to put that version of “Killmonger” on a hero pedestal. He is everything they love an want: the annihilation of a certain race of people that they love to try an scapegoat for all the perceived problems they have in life. There’s a problem in life when individuals are starting to love and sympathize towards villains as opposed to the heroes of stories.
Hmm, someone who says they're doing it for the greater good of the people. Sounds pertinent today.
3:51, so the end justifies the means. Not only villains believe that but villains tend to advocate that philosophy fairly often
The human race is either splitting into 2 species or we’ve been invaded.
I’m still amazed that they wrote Killmonger that way in the movie.
I mean, you’re not supposed to just copy the German painter’s whole world view 😑
Also, Jordan’s line about Killmonger knowing history is BS.
Although a certain painter was also well aware of history.
That’s very true, evil, and crazy as batshit, but the man knew his history lol
The museum scene with the masks bugged me so much.
Wasn't Killmonger in the MCU a weapons dealer? Also wasn't the over all plan of Killmonger to take over Wakanda so that he could use Wakanda Tech and sell/give it to groups that would or will overthrow their local governments?
Klawe was the arms dealer Killmonger was a rogue J-SOC operative. The plan is correct though.
The fact that he had justifications for his actions makes him a better villain but a villain all the same.
Great analysis. I appreciate you!!
This is why I found Goblin in No Way Home so refreshing. Just pure because the character enjoys being evil. I was getting a little tired of one too many MCU villains being “relatable” or “sympathetic”.
Killmonger is the definition of a Villain
2:26, as I understand it in Sax Rohmer’s books Dr. Fu Manchu had studied history at a British University. So under Jordan’s definition Fu Manchu wasn’t a Villain. Even though practically everyone who talks about Fu Manchu now describes him as a “stereotypical Chinese villain”.
What true villain sees himself as one? As all villains think they are the hero of their own story.
Difficult to apply that with serial killers and molesters. In their minds there's no justification to what they're doing, just the desire to do so. You can't defend that.
@@Rinesmyth don’t then because I wouldn’t apply a comment made about villains, who think society morally agrees with them but are just to weak or cowardice to do what needs to be done. I don’t wanna talk about criminals that are not human so don’t apply my comment to said subjects.
Well, this is what happens to people whose moral compasses only point at themselves.
I always roll my eyes whenever a person preaches about slavery despite never having been a slave. MCU Killmonger was first world poor.
If your character chokes an old woman for taking care of the plants then you are the bad guy.
Evidently, Jordan hasn't seen anything more complex than Captain Planet.
Another example of Hollyweirdo cultists not understanding storytelling.
I’m so sick of every villain being watered down to a antihero that has the right idea but just goes about it the wrong way. Can we please just have some detestable antagonists again? Every comic villain has to be Tony soprano or Walter white now. I’m not interested in sympathizing with them.
P.S. Killmonger is lame as hell. People keep trying to make him a thing and I’m tired of him topping lists for best marvel villains. Calling Killmonger a great villain is just a virtue signal
It shifting blame to someone else, it not the villian fault that they are evil, it was someone else who made them evil. You can see it with those awful Disney live remake. Yet people forget that villian still do evil deeds, out doing the evil that was done to them.
They don't have the right idea, they just attempt to convince people who don't look at the results of their actions, that they have the right idea. That is what ultimately evil liars do. All this shows is that Jordan is one of those dumb people that can easily be persuaded to follow liars while ignoring the results of their actions. Basically useful idiots.
They don't have the right idea, they just attempt to convince people who don't look at the results of their actions, that they have the right idea. That is what ultimately evil liars do. All this shows is that Jordan is one of those dumb people that can easily be persuaded to follow liars while ignoring the results of their actions, aka what Jesus describes from a good tree produces good fruit, a bad tree, bad fruit. Know the fruit they produce. And you'll know if they are a good or evil tree.
Walter White is a fairly bad example because the premise is he crosses the line from being a justified criminal to a villain. The creator pitched the series as Mr. Chips becomes Scarface. It is clear around Season 5 he is the main villain of the show and Jesse who has shown to keep his morals and wanted to leave his life of crime once and for all was the new protagonist of the show. Walter even admits in the finale that he was doing everything for himself.
I like complex villains. Plus we do have plenty of straight up villains. Especially in Marvel. But they do include some villains that aren't pure evil or even if they are they have sympathetic sides to them.
Somebody tell Michael B. Jordan that Killmonger is a Villain
Not only was Killmonger a villain, he was one of the best villain's I've ever seen. the fact that he is even confused about this tells you how GREAT of a villain he actually was
That's like saying the KKK cares about their people as much as anybody else , so they aren't villainous 😅😅😅
Thanos wasn't so bad. He just started a conversation that needed to be had
He was only looking for a final solution
He did good because when he snapped away 50% of Earths population it took away the growing celestial inside Earth's.
The reason why Thanos's planet is so messed up is because a celestial hatched out of his planet, ruining his planet.
Perfect Video Right Here! Cause I've heard soooo much bullshit for so long about so many 'Relatable Villains' not being villains it makes my fucking head hurt
My Man! Hey this video just bumped you up on my list Big Time! Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! Anybody who has ever examined the fundamental and ideological differences between MLK and Malcolm x should be able to see the difference between the two! Obviously MX was quite a bit more on the radical side as opposed to MLK and his peaceful protestations! I mean both of them we're on the FBI's watch list along with the Black Panthers and even Jimi Hendrix! As well as numerous others I might add, but the main thing people miss is that they obviously had different goals in mind! So your video is going to send me back into a deep study of the history books particularly pertaining to these fundamental and ideological differences that they both adhered to staunchly. I knew that when I first heard about Malcolm x! I already knew who MLK was he was famous Malcolm x was no notorious in stark contrast to MLK! Enough said for now but I'll get back at you some other time! But thanks again for the insights into both of these men!! Time to hit the books! LOL
2:33, quite a lot of villains are educated and intelligent. Professor Weston from Out of the Silent Planet by C.S. Lewis for example. Professor James Moriarty from The Adventure of The Final Problem by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle for another. Sax Rohmer’s Dr. Fu Manchu for another. Raymond Reddington from The Blacklist. If anything it’s extremely common for villains to be intelligent and educated.
Shout out to the Space Trilogy. Glad you brought that up.
Also, that intelligence is what makes them so dangerous. Competent villains present actual obstacles in a story.
&Skye Reave, thanks. The Space Trilogy is an underappreciated C.S. Lewis series.
@Skye Reave, exactly. Prospero from Shakespeare’s The Tempest would be long dead if Caliban had a brain but Antonio poses a serious threat
lol can't believe he really thought he wasn't a villain :D You had a tortured past and instead of getting help you choose to act for revenge and destruction rather than peace and moving forward. imagine being beat as a kid and instead of getting help to understand it was wrong and find forgiveness and move on you just go out and beat kids you are a villain bro :D
He was a sympathetic villain in ways but he was a villain.
Not really his actions and backstory don’t give him any sympathy.
@@emberfist8347 He's kind of a frustrated outcast, though. I thought his motivation had some depth.
Damn now I wish I would have listen to the podcast. That would have been incredible.