Every single word you say is 100% accurate. Only people who have lived through a relationship with one will know how incredibly accurate it is. Being with a BPD is emotionally and physically dangerous.
I've just ended a 5 year relationship with a bpd lady, finally saw through the gaslighting and realised the whole time was a mix of manipulation, lies, control and I feel I never even knew them. I'm emotionally and physically drained, I have a successful career, strong personality and a positive, pro active person. I'm having to put myself together with support from counselling. When I fell apart in my first counselling session the counsellor said you've spent 5 years in a manipulative, abusive relationship and we need to get you out asap. He said can't diagnose without seeing the person but pretty confident she has bpd and traits of npd. I was idealised and devalued over and over. These people will wreck your life, I know they don't know what they are doing but if you can get away run as fast as you can and build a happy life. You'll feel like it's you but it's not you can heal and recover, sadly they are unlikely to change.
Cheating is very common among BPD, and you outlined why: 1. fear of attachment and abandonment: cheating gives them an emotional upper hand/control, keeps them from getting too attached, and gives them someone to go to if you leave them 2. devaluation: if they are viewing you negatively, then you are crap and deserve to be cheated on 3. impulsivity: it is obvious how this leads to cheating There are other reasons why they cheat so often, but those 3 combined together, feeding off each other, paints enough of a picture.
Mine did on me multiple times and I always thought it was because of me. The first time, she told me that she didn't know I loved her and was surprised by my reaction. She also said that what she was chasing with the other guy is what she wanted with me. It was the beginning of what would be eight years of hell for me that I'm not crawling myself out of having regained myself last year.
I found out last year that my Mother has NPD and my wife of 23 years has BPD. I didn't realize I was drowning my entire life. Now I'm treading water. Hopefully soon I can swim. People have no Idea what these type of personalities can do to your mind.
Hey... Yup figured out my mother has NPD big time two years ago and I am in process of divorcing my wife of 18 years as she is a super malignant narcissist/sociopath also... I basically identified that the stumbling block to getting over all of this was my co-dependency. Sooooo I treated my co-dependency (with coaching) so that I could at least start proceedings for getting divorced. I am separated now but I am MUCH MUCH MUCH happier now and its just the beginning... Do it for yourself... as no one else will do it for you... AND do not feel sorry for these people (As in Stockholm syndrome)... eventually you will figure out how absurd it is to feel sorry for these people.. as they especially take advantage of that and drive a truck through it... No matter how destructive things seem a better life IS really possible... sometimes its very hard to see that from being forcibly stuck at a disadvantaged position and view point. You can get your soul and drive back and real will for life with joy...
So - are you moving forward with a divorce? Are there any children involved? I too am at the 23 year mark and need to a change but it is super complicated with a homeschooling family of five with one income. Mr. Grannon has wonderful information but getting out from under the BPD and protecting the kids seems to be a daunting task. One that keeps me stuck where I am!
and you did you realise your own mental disorder as well? People who are well adjusted can actually tell what is dangerous and what isnt. People with trauma, cannot to the same degree.
I was once diagnosed as suffering from ptsd and another time as a borderline. thanks for the help. I also meditate and I try to live in the moment. I also have a great passion for music and beautiful things in art and nature and I enjoy being alone. thank you.
I have just ended a 5 year relationship with a BPD. 2.5 years of it being married. I am destroyed. Thanks to randomly watching a video about borderline personality disorder I had a eureka moment and 5 years of just wtf made total sense and I knew to save myself, I had to leave her.
@P. Chretien He stayed with the person for 5 years. 5. He married that person. You would throw all that away rather than try to help? I had BPD (had, because many of the symptoms are still there, but an emotionally stable environment, medication and therapy has shifted my sense of self so much I no longer fit the amount of requirements needed for a BPD diagnosis) and trust me, there is nothing more that a person with BPD wants than to recover and to stop hurting the people they love.
@P. Chretien I am not entirely sure you understand what BPD actually is. It is a disorder. It is an illness. No one wants to be ill or choose to be ill and hurting others because of that sickness is not a choice for those affected. Choosing not to help a sick person though, is a choice. I think you might be confusing BPD with APD - Antisocial personality disorder, aka, pshychopathy. In fact, people with BPD are often children of pshychopaths as BPD is caused by emotional abuse.
P. Chretien I hear your hurt. But you do get that it is sthg they and everyone SUFFERS from right? There is genuine hope for everyone involved. I understand you wanted and had to leave ( their biggest cause for the disorder to continue to be pervasive...abandonment...) and that’s entirely ok. I further know and can relate to your pain. It’s their pain but on a much smaller scale ( in their reality) that we feel or left with but if you would be able to comprehend the content of what BPD is and means to those who suffer from it you would essentially ‘ get’ it and perhaps you would be able to move on with compassion and a good clinical understanding. Both. It is essential to our own healing that we who do not suffer from it KNOW that they are not at fault for their behavior. It does not mean you need to condone their behaviors over your own hurt but it means you stay focused on understanding that blame/shame and ridiculing them makes them worse thus makes them repeat their vicious circles...over and over. I have personally met many ‘thrivers’ who after learning about their issue were happy and worked hard through recovery. A lot of them had partners who they had relationships and children with and family and community members that loved and believed in them and their own healing. It needs not only the person who is inflicted but it needs a community. It needs compassion. Understanding. And the willingness on both ends to conquer this. By not leaving and abandoning them. As I understood has happened to them in very early stages of development. Yes it is in ways diabolical. Because they cause so much pain. Again cuz they are in so much pain. Hurt people hurt people. We are humans. We can intercept w/the functioning of our own brains. Or have others who can do that. Wether that is all happening anyways on a subconscious level or in full awareness could be externally helped by...what does it matter. As long as ppl have a drive and the compassion to understand others and themselves, understand that behaviors are NOT who the person is and understand who we are in all of it we can respond. Why were we with them til we could no longer? I know they are actually truly insightful, lovable and unique beings, who are worth it just as much as anyone of us who loved them in the first place. Their emotional vibrancy is often very intuitive and in hindsight they are capable of feeling for others, relating to others in greater ways than many of us. Their hyper vigilance is so ever-present...that they are tune in on everything in their environment...scanning, permanently scanning for dangers...alerted. They are so restless. Of course. Their nervous system is on freaking overload. Their cortisol levels are spiked at ALL times. They feel NOT safe. Especially around loved ones. As I come full circle in learning about it all...I get to feel extremely relieved. It is not ‘ a job’ to help or understand one another as humans but it is what makes us to relate and show compassion on the level of comprehending that THEY don’t exist and WE don’t know THEM...but much rather to get to the point to grasp THEY were lovable to us to begin with. Than we abandoned them cuz their behavior was ridiculous...but why? What and why did what happen here? I now totally get it. I hope for all of the involved for a better understanding. For communication. For allowing the healing. They are us. We are them. It is not their fault. It’s actually no one’s.
@P. Chretien They really don't though, that is not how it works any more than putting pressure on a depressed person will cure them. You really don't sound like you have even the faintest idea what you are talking about and it is probably a good idea that you stay away from them and other sick people as well to be honest. Good luck with that.
It's a nightmare 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. It never ends. Just when ya think things are peaceful, the craziness starts all over again. You said my thoughts exactly, in-fact, my words that I just told someone the other day: "Dealing with a pwNPD is a walk in the park compared to dealing with a pwBPD." Great upload. Just Subscribed ~
You are so right about how fast they cycle from love to hate. I had a falling out with my BPD friend of 3 years (who I also suspect is comorbid w NPD) back in September. An item of mine went missing and was found in her house. When confronted about why it was there, she avoided giving an answer and begun to blame me for things and derailed the conversation from the original topic. We stopped talking completely after her display of denial, gaslighting and verbally berating me after she was caught. In December I received a letter from her apologizing. In the letter she put the responsibility on her step mom for stealing it and said she lied to protect her step mom and avoid confrontation. (Not sure if I believe that) In the letter she also excused her own behavior. I didn't feel like it was a sincere apology but I talked to her anyway. It was only 3 weeks before it imploded again. She began calling me a Loser when I didn't do what she wanted, she would try to either question or control my every move and also was acting very secretive. The other day, she snapped at me so I snapped back at her. I was gonna take some space from her but let it go. She was then posting on FB about "toxic friends" and how she's had to cut off 3 people. We never had a conversation where she "cut me off." Then after a couple of days, she came by my house to pick something up. I handed it to her and said "see ya" to go back inside. I didn't really want to be around her bc of how negative she is. She starts screaming "Wait you're not even going to apologize???" I asked what I'm apologizing for. She said bc I ripped her head off the other day. (Overdramatizing and conveniently forgetting her part of the situation.) I explained to her why I had that reaction, which was bc I felt triggered by her, it reminded me of how my NPD sister would treat me. She pretty much told me I "should have known" thats not how she meant it. So when she snaps, I should know thats not what she meant, but when I snap back, I need to apologize for it. She has a different standard for herself than for everyone else. She also compared this situation to the previous argument we had about stealing and she again said that I "should have known" she would never steal. I don't get how I should have known when she was lying to protect her step mom. It obviously made her look more suspicious by lying. I should just KNOW things that she's not telling me. I felt that this was going to be a ridiculous circular conversation so I just said "I'm gonna go inside now." and didn't engage with her. I hear her as I'm walking away saying "Fuck you" and I just ignore it. Then I started getting berating text messages from her saying how I'm running away, I'm emotionally stunted, don't know how to communicate, saying that we cant be friends and how shes not going to forgive me this time..... I have an apology letter from her but her brain has twisted it to think she is the one who forgave me. She tried to use her friendship as leverage to cover up her own abandonment wound. Her approach was not one of wanting to communicate, it was trying to instigate and provoke me, or to get me to concede to her by being the only one to take blame. A person like that feels like either way they are winning. I chose neither and walked away. GREY ROCK.
I just watched this (6 years later...) and I think it may be the best video I've ever watched about BPD. Still (6 years after it was made). I'm a social worker and about 50% of my clients have BPD or complex PTSD or both. About 15 years ago I had both. With enough determination you definitively can recover. I'm living proof. My short recipe 1. Realize that your pain is not the center of the universe. Zoom out spacewise and you are just another ant. Zoom out timewise and you are not even there. 2. Realize that your pain is not important. Not meaningful in any way. It is just something you feel because you've always felt it. It's just a bad habit like any other. 3. Stop placing your recovery in the hands of others (psychiatrist, doctors, lovers, family members, friends, etc.). Your pain - your responsibility. 4. You CAN bare feeling pain. The pain is not going to kill you. The only way you can get rid of it is by feeling it. Cry for weeks, months, years if you have to. But don't run away from it coz you'll be running away your whole life. It will pass eventually. I promise. Don't forget; fearing having to feel pain is faaaar worse than actually feeling it.
Thank you for talking about the need for compassion with regards to BPD sufferers. The default level of pain is off the charts for them. If it's hard to be in a relationship with a person suffering with BPD, imagine the hell of having it yourself. Also, you are BANG on with the CPTSD/BPD connection. Too many therapists have no idea. None. Your directness here is invaluable.
He called nasty. I don't think he gave them any hope at all. I think he would push them right off the bridge. What's the sense of living if what this guys says nothing but horrible things about people with BPD. And the drug addiction. If I was diagnosed with BPD and listened to this it would probably be the last thing I would do. If he were the therapist there is no way a BPD person could live with the hopelessness that this man gives these NASTY BPD people.
@laurie eno Nice to hear someone's thoughts close to my own. Was so angry at the PDs in my family for years, simultaneous with the fear that "I had it too!" and sometimes getting chills as I recognized the similar behaviors on display in myself and in the literature, in certain instances. It may be hard to always sort out when it is CPTSD and when it is an actual PD. but just the awareness that the disorder can create reactive behaviors that superficially resemble those of the disorder, is a helpful gain to have made. As we all try to untie this knot, it's good to pick apart how this bit got mixed up with that. Sadly, I think it's true that the desire to become self aware and change is almost never a characteristic of the truly personality disordered. It's more likely to be the brave decision of a complex post-traumatic stress survivor.
With all due respect, this comparison confuses me. Nobody should be in a relationship with an untreated borderline. And no untreated borderline should be in a relationship with anybody. They are the human embodiment of a dysfunctional interpersonal relationship.
I had no clue that I suffered with BPD through my early 20's but I always knew something was very wrong. At 18, during my one and only severe mental breakdown (1st ever breakup was the trigger), I actually crossed the borderline into a complete state of psychosis where I caused self harm and could not function, sleep or eat for 2 days. I used to use the umbrella diagnosis of depression to explain it but really had no clue what I was dealing with until my 30's. Looking back now, I should have been committed to a psychiatric institution but somehow I made it through. I was very promiscuous, unpredictable, rebellious with bouts of rage, started drinking heavily and using drugs at a very young age because of my horrible experience in the foster care system. I thought it was all part of growing up or what some call teenage angst so I never asked for help but was also never offered therapy from social workers or foster parents. Unknowingly, I have been the catalyst to the destruction of every relationship. When a boyfriend would jokingly call me crazy, they had no clue how crazy I really was. I shouldn't have dated back then and am now filled with remorse for hurting the kind ones. The good news is that prognosis for young people with BPD is actually very good. Simply stated, they grow out of it as they get a lot older. I can confidently say that I've outgrown it. I've read tons of health and spiritual books, dropped my antidepressants for amino-acid therapy (try Whole Foods brands) and at 35 am currently in the best relationship of my entire life. I am so happy and at peace now that I feel it's time for me to give back to the innocent children stuck in the horrible foster care system I grew up in. I agree with Richard when he says that dealing with a Narcissists is a walk in the park compared to BPD's. Being borderline is being incessantly neurotic, explosive and physically harmful to oneself and others.
This video is the equivalent of a nice warm hug. Thank you. Very insightful. I've just finished watching this and I'm about to visit my counsellor. I feel like I have a better understanding of PTSD now so hopefully I can express this better to him.
My mother is a narcissist like I mentioned. I was the scapegoat child. I was abused on many different levels, directly and indirectly. I was never allowed to say how I felt, so I stuffed down my emotions and never was able to learn how to process them. I moved away 6 years ago. Around 3 years ago I stumbled across the term "borderline". My world flipped upside down because I could see these qualities in myself. I have improved immensely within these past 3 years, immensely. I've met other "border lines" through DBT. What I find unfair is that we develop these traits because of severe abuse, then we see videos like this, (speaking of the worst case scenerios) and then we're shunned as adults, after everything we've already been through. Again, borderline's are so incredibly misunderstood.
Debra Vanaria wow this is completely my experience. It isn't bad enough that we've had so much narc abuse, but then we are damaged too. It is so unfair. Can we heal?
My family is mentally fucked up, my sister is a narcissist, my mom is a schizophrenic and I most likely have BPD. But I know some people have it worser than me so I should probably shut up.
Ugnė Janušauskaitė My uncle is a schizophrenic, dad is a covert narc, mom is co-dependent and I’m a teenage semi OCD ridden, BPD diagnosed, alcohol use disorder diagnosed person
Thank you for this video! So affirming to me. I'm finally able to face the fact my father is a (recovered alcoholic), Narcissist w/Borderline. I was treated for "bi-polar" at age 25 w/meds and talk therapy. Weaned off meds at age 27 by an amazing doctor who never shamed me or labeled me, but sadly, NEVER even asked me about my childhood or about the environment I was raised in! I haven't had a manic or depressive episode in almost 16 yrs (of living a full and blessed life: marriage, raising kids, managing home, volunteer/full to part-time work, friendships, etc). I always knew that I was just one of the pretty little objects of my father's varied forms of torture. Looking back, I grimly suppose I was a particularly "delicious milkshake" of sorts. I just needed enough time, and distance from this father to begin to heal. Thank you for your knowledge, honesty, humor and compassion. Peace to all, Liz P.
I haven't heard of Complex PTSD. Your honesty and humor are great-- in combination with the knowledge and insight you possess, I think you're probably impacting a lot of people in a really positive way. I'm excited to watch more of your videos.
My ex projected his borderline characteristics and would call me this, as I was the one completely devastated by the relationship that i had physical illnesses by the trauma and no question cptsd, yet he jumped right into another relationship immediately. The confusion, the toxic “harem” around him, all of it was so maddening.
Same thing happened to me too Amy. I had developed physical symptoms that lasted for several years after the trauma of being cheated on my her in our marriage: digestive problems, chronic heartburn acid reflux, an ulcer, daily heart palpitations, all of it. And when we finally split up last year, within about two weeks or so, if even that long, it all abated. I don't even really remember what it feels like to have felt that way then.
One point I would like to add... Borderline a made a habit of not expressing emotions throughout their younger years. Also, many of us had "care givers" who had explosive emotions.. And usually another caregiver who would tell us not to react to the other parents explosive behavior. Through seeing one extreme, example; a mothers narcissistic rage and then having your enabler father telling you to ignore it, don't react, don't say anything... We ultimately learn that emotions are not safe. So we naturally try to ignore them, stuff them down, distract from them. An analogy that is similar... Say you're a child and you believe theirs a monster in your closet, but you never check to look... The mister becomes bigger and scarier over time.. To avoid this monster you're willing to go to any lengths to forget the monster is there or to relieve your fear of the monster... When the real cure is to open the door and take a look inside: when you do, you realize their is no monster.
Same thing with borderline's and emotions... When stuff them down, suppress them for so long, they grow and grow and you'll go to any lengths to keep you "safe" from them... Drinking... Sex, self harm (physical pain is easier to experience then emotional for borderline's.). What the borderline needs to do is stop running, turn around and look their emotions straight in the face. When we do this, over time we realize they are not scary, we need them and they serve as a way for us to receive valuable information. When a borderline is given then tools, we have all the possibilities in the world to heal.
+Debra Vanaria one more point, I heard this analogy that makes perfect sense to me... A narcissist is like a shark, and a borderline is a wounded bear. Both can hurt you but their reasons for doing so are not the same. Thanks for sharing your videos. I appreciate all that you do. Being compared to a narc definitely upset me tho but this video is still educational.
They often seek out that monster later in life too. Because they never got a chance to overcome it, they never had the chance to react, talk about it, or overcome it at the time. The father that was violent, the bully that the teacher ignored and put you in detention instead, even the sibling that just abandoned you because they didn't want to play with you. Sometimes they are innocent victims, sometimes they are full blown psychopathic narcissists they've found and put themselves through immense self-harm doing this.
Coming from at least a thousand or more hours of research on BPD, and experiencing the aftermath, this is the single greatest video on the subject. I hope that BPDs will get out of their own way and listen to this. There are people that love you unconditionally. You are enough, even with your past and all of your broken pieces life hurts and is messy. It's going to be alright.
My mother was diagnosed with this by a psychiatrist, I loved her with all my heart but... well, to put it simply, she put me through hell. I think I struggle with something like codependency because of this
Thank you so much for the quick response--I feel like I am gaining clarity quickly since first encountering your channel last night. I was feeling like there was no ground under me, now I can feel a little more of the stability in the world around me. Thank you for sharing your grounded-ness with the rest of us.
Thanks for the very interesting video. I have suffered with Severe BPD since childhood, my earliest hallucinations were at the age of 5. I don't remember any trauma at that time, but my disposition has unfortunately left me open to abuse throughout my life. When people ask me about my illness, I describe it like I am being emotionally peeled, as if I am walking around with my skin peeled back. I hear whispers, random voices, electrical noises in my brain, and what I affectionately refer to as - the shadow people. Although I agree with the process of Idealization, devaluation and fears of rejection and or abandonment as very real, Borderlines, (especially those prone to people pleasing) can and do get taken advantage of, and because people notice a quirkiness or strangeness about that person, it makes it easier for others to blame them; make them the scapegoat, in order to justify there own faults or wrong doings. I have come across this many times in my life. I know my own shortcomings, and through years of therapy, I am getting better at deciphering real from imagined. Another problem is not knowing my boundaries. I do not seem to have that natural in-built filter that normal folk have. I am the type of person that tells my whole gory, horrific life events in the first 5 minutes of meeting someone, which ends up scaring off the right people, and leaves me with the wrong sort of people. The people who want to take advantage of the women from Fraggle Rock! I still suffer from extreme emotional states, that can last hours to days, and can be triggered by a simple thing like a Toilet Paper advert. I do not feel the need to hurt myself anymore, although that feeling still lingers from time to time, unfortunately I am still unable to control those intense emotional states. I came across an article in the LA Times entitled: Borderline Personality Disorder grows as healthcare concern (2009). It was a genuine article that I could relate to. It talks about how new research has suggested that people with BPD are pre-disposed to be emotionally sensitive, because not everyone who has BPD has suffered abuse or neglect in childhood, so in other words: We are just born this way!
I was diagnosed with borderline. I have worked on fixing it alot. I got rid of the drama I created. Now I just feel numb. I just don't want to be around people. I realized the more I am by myself the more peaceful I am. Although sometimes I get sad and lonely I just think back to the times I would get so angry and irritated. I think having a pet helped me alot. I idealize him till today. Maybe that's because he cant talk...lol. The internet helped alot. I love to learn new things. But people just irritate me unless I can learn from them. I love debates with intellectual people who dont base anything I say with emotion but with facts and logic. I found atheism helped me too. There should be a diagnoses for getting irritated by dumb people. I know that sounds narcissistic but Seriously or less evolved people reaction disorder.
Tara Mokaya how will you learn from people when you're rarely around them? i was like that too now i love being around them and there is a way not to be irritated by people you'll learn from them without judgeing
+Tara Mokaya It is easier to not be around people, and yes, lonely. However if it keeps you feeling safe and calm, then I recommend it for the BPD.I keep my associations down to a minimum, not always easy, as I am a social creature by nature, and when I get that burst of energy where everyone and everything is wonderful, that is when I socialise, and that is a when it gets tricky, when I meet up with people and start divulging too much information.
borderline personality and narcissism ar comorbid, according to sam vaknin who does videos on narcissism on youtube. in one of his videos, he explains that borderlines make their connections with other people out of the vulnerable, open, intimate borderline-part. and when the connection is there, the boarderline-part gets scared of the intimacy, so the narcissism-part takes over to protect the person from abandonment by controlling and punishing the other person... i found that interesting
SPARTANLIFECOACH yes, unfortunately, i also made such experiences. looking back at it i think that's what made it so hard to believe that these bullying parts were even there. it was like you described in another video, that my brain mis-interpreted reality by just filtering out that bullying afterwards to keep the image of the sweet person up.
SPARTANLIFECOACH it's like the borderline is able to create such a perfect illsion of intimacy that gives you enough insentive to gaslight-away the narcissistic part of them by yourself. because you want that drug of simulated intimacy again. you become addicted to it. but it's just an illusion created by the borderline's ability to mirror you and be "the one" for you. as long as you submit.
SPARTANLIFECOACH Re: Richard's X and a drink... It's funny with my mother (who was NPD and very insecure) and an Alcoholic... that when she got drunk she would flip into this state of being super super super super EVIL... beyond imagining.... It was funny at a key point in the evening she would point a finger and say the word "Question...." with a crooked smile and raised eyebrow... We all knew we were in for a hell of a time where pure insanity and evil accusations could only ensue... So everytime she said "Question...." We would ALL instantly run out of the room, go to bed .. leave the house and so on.. just leave the miserable narcissistic evil drunk listening to her "Julio" and Charles Asnavar records all on her own... It's also curious that my Narcisisstic girlfriend will NOT take a drink... (maybe to her credit) but I wondered if the same "phenomenon" would result and she guards against that.????
not all borderlines have narcissistic traits ive struggled with this disorder for close to 15 years and have just about every trait of the borderline with dissociative issues as well which yes includes shitty relationships and extreme fear of abandonment and so on but i dont try to control or play around with people's emotions i am what i am unfortunately i cant have a relationship cos my head wont let me the constant twisted paranoid thoughts are to intense and every other day want to binge on any substance i can get at the time and dissociate from everything leaving me with no memories of previous night and having to find out all the dumb shit i had done feeling so much hatred and shame for myself then all of sudden doing it all over again but im definitely no bully or ask any one to submit to me everything messed up we do is all internalised which i know couldnt be easy for the partner i could never impose my issues on any one else thats one of the problems thats why can seem so distant and unemotional but not trying to manipulate any one just really fucken scared of being hurt we have a lot of love to give and the intensity of it can feel amazing when happy but on the other hand the intensity of pain and rejection is so fucken unbearable id have to wipe myself out with alcohol just so i wouldnt contemplate suicide or self harming over the many years though learnt to just shut off those emotions which in turn shut off more emotions than i wanted obviously not a good way to go about it thats why cant keep a relationship so if a borderline seems unemotional distant angry towards you they havnt lost their feelings for you it just means that they've exhuasted all there energy on hiding the constant intense pain from the rest of the world and just need someone to say to them that no matter what your there for them and then give them a hug they love hugs well thats my quick take on borderline froms years of destructive experiences with mental dissorders haha cos there's so many aspects to it could be here all night talking about it just wanted to say to spartanlifecoach as well ive always loved watching your clips find very insightful and helpful and helped with my decision last year to leave my trade of 10 years as a stonemason and start uni doing psychology and cognitive neuroscience only thing ive ever wanted and loving every minute of it thanks from the mad aussie
Great vid. Your explanation of CPTSD in BPD is very insightful. One more piece of the puzzle of my recovery from relationship with someone suffering with BPD just fell into place. The fog is lifting and it is an amazing feeling. I am remembering who I am. Thank you.
It's great to listen to you. I think it's good that you give your time to the young people. I wish I had someone like you when I was 16. That would have given me another life as grownup. It took me many years until I went to a therapist and asked for help. To feel this horrible sence of not being well and see the world right and fail every time is exhausting. You do need to work hard with yourself but what a wonderful feeling when you get better. Thank you for your work Richard.
This is by far the best video that I have ever watched on Borderline...my Sister had this (undiagnosed) disorder and it consumed her, me, and the rest of my family, right up until her sudden death at the age of 30 (I was 27)...my inevitable spiral led to a mental breakdown...years of meds and counselling followed in order to try to pierce through the layers of C-PTSD...I’m finally seeing some light...a package of Therapy, Physical Exercise, Diet, Massage and Meditation have all counteracted the demons...they are still there in the background, but I am in a better position to fight...my only regret was that I couldn’t help her as I didn’t know what was wrong - nobody did...we just had to watch her destroy herself...I think of her daily and her death left such a void that I was convinced that the same thing was happening to me...thank you so much Richard, for sharing your extensive knowledge - you are amazing!! 🌈🦋🙏
I think my doubts of being borderline have completely disappeared whilst watching this video. There is nothing I can't relate to of what you've said and I have found the will to search for help in a time where it is most needed. Also I cried. A lot. Thank you, stranger.
I don't think they care. Just like doctors (I don't consider shrinks as doctors) they see so many people all day and give them very little time just like a factory worker processes the products that pass through the machines. They treat their patients as objects, no more than that, and that's what they're trained to do. This is far far away from humanistic or scientific.
Healing Bean They are Drs, they make $$$ writing scripts for drugs that don't work, &sometimes kill. They don't care what their suicide rate is. Dr Drew in the US is a MD self-proclaimed psych (in his state you can switch specialties with a course, WTF?) who is always in the media speading misinformation & who has an ASTOUNDINGLY high death rate of patients....both high profile & at the hospital he headed for 20. yrs......not only has his license not been revoked but he has a wider audience than ever. He doesn't even follow National Guidelines on addiction, yet calls himself an "addiction specialist" & "Psychiatrst".....
Barbara Brinkmeyer Where is your evidence for BPD sufferers being "sadistic" or medication having no efficacy for them Barbara?! Also, to reject something within the human condition is to reject it within yourself. Let's hope your kids have 100% mental health or you'll reject them too huh!
Richard, God bless you--this video explains the connection between borderline personality disorder and complex-ptsd from childhood trauma that I have been observing in my own life for the past 20 years. The moment you explained the causal relationship it seemed so obvious! Thank you for adding your expertise on this subject to the field. This information is extremely necessary for me as I work desperately to build a healthy self-image and create the life I want and deserve.
Jane Hunyor 2 years later. I’ve just found Richard too. For years I’ve been struggling through life. You get so tired of trying. When I was a child, the thought that got me through was that someday I would be away from it and it would be better. Then you’re an adult and it’s not any better; somehow the abuse rages on internally .. everything is dysfunctional. Hope burns eternal though 💫
HI. Thank you for ur videos. I have been watching you for couple of years. Codependency & Narcissism. I have recently being diagnosed with BPD. Self diagnosed then confirm by psychiatrist at the hospital . I will do what ever it takes. I'm 42 and have 2 adult children who have lived through this and still love me. I feel like ive had my life ripped off and its not fair. My Mum has Aspergers and my Dad depression .... I love them and we have a great relationship. I am seeing a therapist who can put me on to DBT and been watching " The Borderline Life" she is telling my story. This really sucks! very lonely.....Knowledge is Power, so thank you from the bottom of my emptiness xx
I found it helpful to watch youtube vidoes of people who have been diagnosed with BPD. Interesting to see the sincerity in their eyes when they said certain things etc. Because I could see for myself how real their feelings are, on certain subjects. I used to find it hard to believe, that someone could feel that strongly about the certain specific types of things they do. But it helped me to listen to them talk about BPD. Its just a time bomb.
BPD its hell its 50% hereditary and 50% being bought up in an invalidating enviroment. It is emotional disregulation and paralyzing fear that causes impulsivity
I have learned so much from you over the past 7 months. I bought 2 courses and follow your You-Tube videos. I would be in such a darker place if I hadn't stumbled upon your videos. I have C-PTSD and a fawning-style co-dependency/people pleaser syndrome, and may not have known if it weren't for you and Ross Rosenberg. Thank You. Great video as always.
I want to start crying because your 2 or 3 video on Narcissism and BPD have helped me immensely. I recently met a young lady and I knew something wasnt quite right and now I think I know what.
i had no problem paying bills on time, keeping my checking acct balanced, and cleaning my house until going through 2 narcissistic relationships, how in the hell did that affect my object constancy when i had it before. the effects were most prevalent after the second narc. how did i loose this "object constancy" exactly how do i get it back.
Great video again! Each time I learn something new. Thank you. The part about manifesting scenarios reminded me of a quote I like by Carl Jung:“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.”
Hi Richard. The key point you keep returning to is childhood. The Adverse Childhood Experience matrix is clear although not comprehensive but, even so, I found it extremely helpful to orient myself. Your videos have been incredibly helpful, especially as I've not been able to access any in-person therapeutic support which has come even close to you.
I am 66 and this video finally helped me understand why am am so negative and sad. Triggered, and over reactive. Thank you Richard. I recently found Don't sweat the small stuff and it is all small stuff. It is helping me to self-regulate. I listen to it alot.
Thank you for making this video. I seriously wish this was out a couple years ago when I needed help dealing with my friend just wearing me down. I have since dropped her as a friend and I'm starting to heal. It is so strange to see life without the "spell" of sorts cast over you when they have a borderline personality disorder.
This is brilliant man, this describes my father and also some traits in myself. God bless you. You really are helping me set some things straight in myself and in my family. Thank you.
This video has been such an eye-opener for me. I've been in a tumultuous relationship for the past 9 months with a man who fits this description to an absolute tee! After going No Contact a couple months ago (I thought he was a classic NPD case), I broke down and ended up seeing him this past weekend. We talked for hours, everything seemed wonderful, the intense connection that originally brought us together had returned...he said he had missed me, wanted to start over, that I was an amazing person, etc. We both agreed that we had to work on communicating to move forward. He mentioned that he wanted me to initiate plans more often, which prompted me to say that I often hesitated to do so because of his tendency to push me (as well as everyone else) away. During these "dark cloud" moments you could actually see/feel the shift, he would change from warm and inviting to completely cold and off-putting like the flip of a switch. Even though I said this in the most gentle way possible (and said I would be happy to amend my behavior now that I knew my invitations would be welcomed), he accused me of saying he was a miserable, terrible person, and that our relationship would never work because I (this seems even more ridiculous to type than to say out loud) perform in theatre and it reminded him of an unhappy time in his life. He's come up with ridiculous reasons for us not to be together before, but this one is the most ridiculous of all, especially considering that he is also an actor and we met in a show! I was stunned.
I couldn't believe how quickly he went from valuing me to devaluing me, his emotions did a complete 180 turn in the course of 3 minutes. I asked how he could say that, when he had just asked me to start over, and his reply was, "You're obviously willing to work at this and try, and I'm not, so that's it." Wow. The next day I tried to call him, hoping that cooler heads might prevail, but he refused to talk to me and instead texted me to say that he didn't want to hear from me again. I wish I could say I was surprised, but this is the third or fourth time he has done this to me and I can't help someone who is unaccountable. He has shared several childhood stories that have led me to believe that he suffers from complex PTSD. He has abandonment issues involving his parents and older brother, and was (what I consider) abused by a female teacher when he was a teenager. He has substance issues (pot and alcohol), which are enabled by his parents who I now believe are overcompensating for their lack of attention in his earlier years. He simultaneously craves and fears intimacy. Every time we get close, he promptly shoves me away. It makes me so sad because I truly love him and care about him and want to help, but this kind of crazy-making behavior is too much to take. I have some of the markers of People Pleaser Syndrome and I can't live the rest of my life with people like this. Thank you so much for sharing your insight with us.
@@practicaldreamyr sounds like he got narcissistic injury from your comment. (And there was noth8ng wrong with your comment about that he pushes you away) You spoke truth and he could not handle it. He knew he could not control and fool you anymore so he had no use for you. He sounds like a narcissistic person.
Very good. I live with BPD. You are the first person to visually and deeply explain more of the reason why people fall into this disorder. Having chronic post traumatic experiences as a child unable to escape and unable to start life with an understanding of basic emotions. I also suffer from Anxiety which is not a surprise but PTSD as well from my military service. I can account that the two traumatic experiences are two totally different range of emotions. Both a very unpleasant disorder both inducing nightmares to this day but about two different things. My military trauma i dream of the incident that causes me fear But when I dream and have the nightmares about my childhood trauma its a very Emotional nightmare and experience. Reliving the Feelings of being taunted or whatever that paralyzes your sense of well being. And not a visual event. Not that they can't be of those in itself, but for me its the emotional burden, the fear of just experiencing fear so much, if not All the time of every second waking moment. I experienced extreme fatigue growing up too . needing naps after school and even falling asleep on the bus all the way home. I remember a lot of moments in my life that I believe was a portion of the many cases of chronic trauma growing up as a teen but have sporadic memory as a grade school girl. Only remembering a few big repetitive traumas (like mother yelling crying and threarning to leave and move out as she irrationally packed kitchen ware in garbage bags" but as a little girl even though the relationship was very uneventful or loving and more intimidating than anything you didn't want her leaving you. She was i think mad and overwhelmed raising 3 kids alone but always blaming us for her misery.. my extended family lived over seas in Finland so I only had mom . You mentioned experiences that may have happened at one years old and then a different trauma at 5 amd so on. Can trauma at a such young age really affect an individual . lets say lack of nurture if I would cry at 12 months or 24months. Because I was told by a family friend who was close long time friends with my mom recently that when my twin and I were infants my father who started to exhibit paranoid schizophrenia in his late 30s.it was told he would push the double carriage where my sister and I were laying in napping and such , when we began to cry he pushed our carriage outside even in the winter because we were crying. And leave us there. Obviously his metal illness had a lot to do with his peculiar actions. Can this cause trauma for a infant? Other than not being attended to for crying. ? How do we start to try to remember possible big events in our life that may be uncomfortable that is being surpressed? I guarantee my life between 1 and 9 was uncomfortable with how remember my life during the higher grade level, . Anyway I can talk about this topic for ever like you. One more thing, the older i get the more i realize there is medical information on this disorder which does help just educating yourself on BPD. You start to realize what you felt growing up was REAL and the baffling uncomfortable feelings had a root . and not living in utter confusion because as a girl I never knew if what I was really feeling the awkwardness and not knowing if it was actually real. Just a real living out of the body childhood.
Thank you so much for clearly explaining Complex PTSD. It made many light bulbs go off about my own after effects of long term abuse from different life situations. When you know something, you can heal it easier. I had heard the term previously but wasn't aware of the exact meaning. Bless you. Keep up the good work.
i have seen many mental professionals and most treat BPD as if it doesnt exist.the only diagnosis i have ever been given is clinical depression which is cop out diagnosis on the doctors part.i diagnosed myself as BPD and have been working since i was a young adult to improve.i started out violent etc. but now at the age of 30 i still classify myself as such but have become high functioning thru mindfulness.its a daily battle,some days are worse than others but ,hey im still here. learning to laugh about it helps.
rosaline Pruitt doctors can not diagnose you with a mental health illness because they are not qualified or trained in mental health only person who can diagnose you with a mental illness is a psychiatrist who's trained for ten years as a doctor then trained got qualified to deal with mental health
Very Funny in places and insightful. I have certainly had my share of narcissists in my time... but when I had my first run-in with a borderline it was real eye opening experience. I 100% agree with all of the characteristics that you outline that make "Borderline" distinct from Narcissism. I think the "abandon first" strategy employed by the Borderline is spot on also as well as the very sudden anger and disphoria as well as the tendency to dissociation and paranoia. Also completely agree about the "character" or borderline protagonist constantly falling out... AND I agree in the person I was dealing with that some form of C-PTSD was evident from their upbringing. The thing that was interesting was that this Borderline was being very exploitative, almost abusive and her grasp of reality was really very questionable... However I was determined to call her out on everything and NOT stop until I had landed on the other side. Normally if you employ such a tactic with a Narcissist, things can actually be resolved pretty quickly actually... BOY I was not prepared for what this borderline could "generate" out of thin air... I would call her out on the first line of defense... then she would gaslight and twist to such a unbelievable degree... Then I would call out and quash that second whole line.. then a whole new line of defenses would spring up (a bit like the ping pong thing that Richard has talked about but gone really wrong)... AND you keep going and going and going and calling out setting straight, calling out setting straight, and so on and so and so on... The borderline in this case employs a strategy where a normal person would give up and whatever bullshit that the Borderline had contrived to make stand at that particular point would therefore have to stand permanently. I on the other out of principal have been so sick and tired of being taken advantage of by other (abusive) people that I wanted to absolutely follow through and land squarely on the other side no matter what! It was like going 25 rounds with Mike Tyson or it was like a protracted battle of trench warfare from world war one... I had no idea that such a borderline can be sooooo persistent in their gas-lighting and transference... [VASTLY underestimated their scale and capacity to do that].. It is absolutely true a narcissist is a veritable "cake walk" by comparison to a Borderline... There are things that are reminiscent of narcissists in a borderline perhaps but there is much else besides that is really wrong. With the particular borderline in question one's "spidey" senses feel that there is really an unimaginable level of shame at their core of their being and everything seems to operate from a really damaged and brutal , sullen and dark place... That's how it feels to me. A borderline is just not capable of managing that... Narcissists on the other hand "feel" quite different (to me). Sooo I definitely agree with the distinctions that you set out (from first hand "dealings" with both Narcissists and more rarely Borderline(s).
Another great post. Thank you. It's interesting to hear you speak about narcissists and those with Borderline Personality Disorder who want to get better. I have always been under the impression that those people don't seek help.
I had your exact experience. BPDs are far worse than NPDs in the damage they do to their partners because of their emotional instability, abuse, violence and insane rage attacks. I too went through a near breakdown and depression when she left after cheating on me. And I went through it TWICE! I forgave her the first time, mistake, and wisely moved on the second, but had to go through therapy and medication to get through the accompanying depression and pain.
Thank you. Oh my goodness. What clarity! I think I’ve been struggling with CPTSD - not ADD (I once had a professor ask if I had ADD). You describe it so well… one trauma at one age… and another at another… and they’re all really arbitrary, but what sticks out in my mind are the emotions that experiences are related to. My memory is almost 100% emotionally based. I realized I was a high-functioning borderline when I was in college and I think subconsciously majored in Buddhist Philosophy to help myself. I just got done with 2 years of schema therapy and it helped so much. I also just got out of my second relationship with a narcissist. Have you done any videos about how narcissists and borderlines are drawn to each other? Thank you so much for your work!
I absolutely love your videos. Thank you for being you. It's so inspiring and encouraging to see a person talk with such engagement and care about the different types of suffering and experiences people are trying to deal with and get their heads around. What you've said in this one about complex PTSD, childhood trauma, and the idea that this runs in the threads of most/all the personality disorders seems like THE area psychology should focus on because i'm sure it will bear the most fruit at so many levels. I even feel like the troubles of violence and conflict and suffering in the world are all aspects of childhoods in which people didn't get to experience love and the same time as being taught to be empathic and nurturing. Seems like cycles of behaviour/feeling amongst damaged people who go on to have children without the self-reflectivity/awareness that could break the cycle. I so this a few months ago, all on the same issues - he also mentions the reluctance of the DSM to incorporate the existing work about childhood trauma: Childhood Trauma, Affect Regulation, and Borderline Personality Disorder
Absolutely spot on Richard. My life situation to a T. Currently having therapy every two weeks but I feel like watching your helpfully videos helps me better understand what to explain to my counselor. keep doing what your doing. This information is gold to people like me. (not that I'm making it all about me, that would be narcisstic!) cheers.
Thank you Richard! I'm almost there with the "why". First diagnosed as a young adult as borderline, then at middle-aged as bipolar--now understanding the "narc effect", it's source and on-going complications. I told my psych doc I would appreciate if he explored CPTSD as a possible explanation of my current mental state...
I hope you get this, it's so old...Thankyou for this. I am one of the Borderlines in recovery, and it should be known that there are more and more of us in the last ten years with DBT. I like that you emphasized the will to heal. our sense of broken is so deep that its agonizing to go through the process and many give up, therapist included. But I didn't want to be broken anymore, bruised I can handle but the trauma was going to kill me, literally. I have a daughter. I would look at her and say she deserves a mother. all she did was be born and the thought that my shit could mess her up for life tortured me. I eventually spent 7years of progressive therapy. Medicine and stabalization from hospital, drug and alcohol for three years, sexual assault counseling, parenting support and an inner awareness many dont have. I stuck it out year after year. I breaks my heart that this disorder is still being stigmatized and that more borderlines are not uplifted towards treatment that works
I knew a family where the mother had borderline and narcissism as well. Seen her use an xbox as an medieval weapon swinging it with the cable only because her little son told her to stop hitting his dad. Screaming in her sons face how she hates him. Kids crying like you can't imagine. What brought about all this? The dad said no when the mom asked him to buy the kids clothes. The dad was no angel and can be money tight but seriously it was the most incredible thing I've ever seen. Screaming and lying on the ground out of control smashing vases at the dad missing him. The strange thing was when it was over she was actually surprised at me being angry at her for putting the little ones through all that trauma. The entire family from a grown ass son to little kids in tears. You can call it a personality disorder, its just plain evil tis all. Saw signs of the impulsitivity when she would renovate and upgrade the house on a whim, moved the kids to another city and then moved back. Cranky and in pain the morning especially. The sad thing is she once went up to a policemen and tried shouting at him and trying to make him back down. He slammed her on the car and cuffed her. only a matter of time before something bad happens. It's like narcissism on crack.
Yes they can be very nomadic...we never got the chance to make long term friends... my mother would feel the need to move every few years. Then did this shift 12'000 miles just after I got married, so I never saw any of my siblings. That I itself is a trauma. They never make any decent friends either. My mother, despite marrying someone really intelligent and high earning will only hang with people who are less intelligent or less able to see through her behaviour etc. She has less than two friends she can count on... I mean I have no more either but it that is for a different reason entirely. My reasons are lack of trust, and never seeing the point of making friends in case they abandon or move away. That sadly has come about because of my mother's nomadic escapades. Actually being scapegoat at the moment I have been very depressed, because I gave up masses of friends in the Uk to be here and stay here. Gave up a mortgaged home and everything i owned, to then be treated like this all the time. It really does play with your head. Just recently turned 50...it was always my dream to have a nice 50th and a bash... no such thing occurred. Instead I found myself trying to forget it was my 50th. I actually had a counselling session on my 50th birthday... I bloody hated her that day I can tell you. Complete mess. What angers me is she will go through all these ages and stages and get's everything her way and a bag to put it in, but everyone else get's dumped on at times they least need it. They affect you in so many ways... I wish I could pretend they were all dead.. but they're not. Even if they were, I doubt the devastation would never go away. You go through some good days, and then bad days when your stressed. I have gained a lot of weight with the paralysis these things cause. The total emptiness of just not being able to have at least one family member identify with you on things is pretty hard when your the scapegoat in PD families too. Lately I have worked on inner self and working on my own self worth... hugging my inner child and giving her the attention she needs or has never had because I know no one else will do it right now and unless I stop blaming myself or revisiting it or telling myself I am a victim I will never get out of victim mode or move forward.
Claire Voyant So being nomadic is normal thing for borderliners? That is so unsettling when they get angry with friends or family and move town not caring bout the kids needs at all. You are the "black sheep" of the family. I am like that at the moment. The author of this video talks about it in other videos. If it wasn't for him I would have been asking "why?" for the rest of my life. They pick one person to falsely blame for everything and to cause hatred in the family. But it's not too bad because I am unforgiving of evil people and they can tell I don't want them in my life so they feel the need to fill the vacuum and include me into things. My mom goes behind my back to turn my siblings against me and then she smiles triumphantly at me like I don't know what's going on. Bipolar AND narcissism together is dangerous mix. The lady I talked about in my previous post has cut ties with the closest family, friends etc. She is running out of people. She is most assuredly a narcissist as well as borderline.
PS: My father is bi polar but he is a lovely guy. His cycles are few and far between. I have my doubts he actually is bi polar. He only had episodes when my mother threatened to leave him or actually did... but these bouts were very deep depression and he would have to be hospitalised. Then when she came back to him obviously he would be fine and upbeat... so I have my doubts now as to the bi polar to be honest. Perhaps it is just that a relationship with a Narc is a little bit bi polar or has your moods that way with the constant idealise, devalue and then discard patterns? Just my two cents worth. Background on my Dad was he had a smother mother for 11 years and then child 2 arrived and at 11 years old I would say his nose was shoved out... at 16 he met my mother who got regnant with myself within weeks. There was no choice back then...it was get married. They lasted some years and had 4 kids together in total. But their relationship was up and down and my mother was always talking about other men from memory... one who owned a motorbike and another who had horses and did jumping. She would talk about them as if she has actually been with them in company of friends and out of ear shot of dad... so heck knows... I do know from my grandmothers perspective that in one break up he never got out of bed for weeks. He was devastated. She played with him like a toy I think between flings I surmise. I was a wee toddler and only have older relatives to go by where thats concerned.
I've spent my whole life feeling misunderstood and you just exposed my entire personality in about 20 mins. Labels like borderline personality disorder and CPTSD feel self indulgent when applied to myself, I even feel a distaste in my mouth at the idea of labeling what happened to me as "trauma" because my inner critic calls me a drama queen. This is such an irrational disorder that I don't think I'm worthy of having it, I've seen people who lie about mental illness and trauma to gain sympathy so I can't stand thinking I might be doing it myself. I have every trait. I keep feeling the same pain over and over, I'm so accustomed to misery that I don't bother to dream of the future anymore and I feel like my life is already ruined. I'm only 21 and I want to get better more than I thought I could possibly want anything. I can't see what's left of me without all the behaviours and thoughts you described, I want to be more than just a personality disorder. If it weren't for my sister showing me your channel I probably would've just spent the rest of my life feeling the same paralysing hopelessness. I don't know how to thank you enough :) finding you was a big step towards stopping the pain of the past from consuming my future. I want to find myself, could you please show me where to look?
I didn't quite understand what you meant by B&W thinking so I looked it up, I find it's easier to think of it as "all or nothing" than black and white because when it comes to issues and opinions outside of myself I place more value in seeing shades of grey. "All or nothing" is most noticeable when it comes to relationships, my sister is the most important person in my life but when we fight I only see her as evil. When I meet someone and feel compatible with them I feel they are my new best friend/soulmate in my head until they show enough distasteful traits that I switch to despising them and ending all contact. I think it all comes down to fear of abandonment. It's so rare to feel compatible with someone and we're so used to everyone else leaving that we place an irrationally high value on this new relationship and see everything we have in common amplified. Once we see that they aren't as kindred a spirit as we originally thought we automatically think we should stop giving any of our heart to them because they'll probably leave too. The more you invest the more you have to lose, the more head over heels you are the more painful the break up. I hope that made sense. I'm open to any more questions you might have, it helps me understand myself better to answer them.
Oh no, quite the opposite. I have Borderline Personality Disorder. Don't worry though I've heard Spartan say that's a common mistake. He's also said (and I agree) that "Emotional Dis-regularity Disorder" more accurately describes the experience of this disorder than BPD. To be honest my first impression of the term was the same as yours, It really is a common mistake lol
I just realized recently realized I have BPD... Just Understanding it, is helping so far.. I am going through a workbook, that is helping me understand it better.. Please don't be too mad at us.. We don't mean to be like this.... Childhood Trauma Yes !!! Big Time.. Abandonment issues through the roof... PTSD !!! I think you have to really want to fix it for yourself to get better... It's Very Hard Work, and most don't want to face this deep dark pain they feel.... Thanks for speaking on this with understanding, even though, you went through a bad time with one of our kind.... We really want to be normal so bad..
My mother has BPD, and it was so hard to finally get away from her and her issues. she never followed up with her therapy, and she changed therapists like 3 times because they started to tell her things she didn't wanna hear. I wish she'd accept to get help, but she won't. All I can do is keep my distance now and try to help myself get better.
Richard. You're a flat out, bona fide legend mate. Thank you from Down Under for all your insights in this video....and every other :) I reckon i've been looking at your mug and listening to your words for months now and every vid gets me closer to recovery from BPD abuse. I'm a survivor!!! Cheers :)
Thankyou for clearing that up! I have COMPLEX PTSD but I have had to fix myself! Its confusing too, when professionals all tell you something different! I love listening to you Richard, keep up the great work! Also had borderline friend! You got that right too!
I have cptsd and listen to this video a lot. Ive had severe dissociation since childhood. This helps bring me back into reality and also makes me understand why I am so obsessed and in love with the movie the shawshank redemption.
***** Thanks Alicia, to be clear though CPTSD is not my concept, it was first described by Judith Herman in her book "Trauma and Recovery" - I agree that, thought not recognised yet, its a very accurate description of what happens to a person as a result of trauma.
Co-morbid BPD,NPD sociopathic traits.We have the same ex. Not really, but all the symptons are the same. Ultimately they become the narcissist(covert) and do a bombardment devaluation discard. You become the father figure and receive all the hate and pent up anger. This is can be due to the loss of a care giver. Can also be the magnified midlife crisis many narcs have. The triggers are difficult to pinpoint. They have a tug of war between fears of abandonment and narc discard and cruelty.Very few talk about sociopathic traits with borderlines which confused any diagnosis for me but now I know. The problem here is that co-morbid BPD's who seek help have a covert narc side that stops them from getting treatment. On the outside the sociopathic trait is highly functional yet dishonest and devious.They are a real mix of several P.D. traits and it's not just abandonment fears it's 10 different people in one. They are not like regular BPDs but the traits are there. They seem to be quite rare.
It takes a long time to untangle from them, about 2 yrs for me.Same story but I'm not divulging everything here. Parentizing, medicating children, violence, self medicating,alcoholism,fraud, she even set a narcopath on me. Stalking, histrionic traits, faked illnesses to get more medication, hypochondria, flying monkeys which I took over for a while to stop the abuse from distanceI never reacted to the push pull game but in the end she got me. So I had to fight back, teach my(our kids) her game play. For my ownsanity I should have just left the country becauseI doubt she will ever quit.i have met other BPD's who are emotional manipulaters in trust and abandonment but never so severewith the sociopathic streak.
I got help from a friend who is a therapist. We helped each otherrehabilitate from covert narc abuse. Without that I am not sure where I would be today.We could identify, research and compare and quite simply offer the compassion that is needed. I suspect many victims don't talk about it because of the excruciating pain, especially when children are involved and the risk it can put them in.When people hear the stories it's disbelief and not surprisingly healthy people keep away. NPDs and BPDs have a pattern but this is chaotic madness. She can reinvent herself at will with a whole new Life and circle of friends after one evening. It's really quite fascinating to observe but never again. The covert wants to make you as crazy, and delusional as they are, these definately succeed. Do you have any literature. I have not found that much which describes this condition, causes effects. I've had to break down all the Components and look at it that way.There is very little from a diagnostic point of view, probably because a concise definition is impossible.Hence few go into it. IT was clear to me that different parts would take over if she felt threatened, insecure, elated, popular,some parts were fairly stable early on. Just to compare there is autism in the family, co dep borderline mother psycopath father), narc uncle, narc grandfather( could have been psycopath too). They are not present in mine or the kids lives thankfully.
I am so sorry that you guys lived through that. I realized that I am suffering from PTSD due to years of living with a BPD/Narcopath. I was crushed by him. He doesn't know it, no one does except me. I left him and I am not ok. It has been 7 months and I feel shell shocked. I don't wish this on my worst enemy. I am high functioning in my work but emotionally crippled. Yoga, meditation, reading...nothing is helping.
Amazing content and truly gifted critical thinking as always!! :) The way I see it, is a Venn diagram. There is a pure narcissist, the narcissistic borderline, and the pure borderline. I think a lot of the sayings like “borderlines make narcissists look like a walk in the park” apply to narcissistic borderlines. Because it is a special breed of hell when that narcissistic person is also incredibly vulnerable, filled with poignant emotions, and capable of deeply attaching and caring. There is such a difference in these types I would argue that there is a Borderline type 1 and type 2. Most true borderlines are in their room somewhere on a Friday night listening to sad music and writing in their journal... they are generally content to just hurt themselves. Can relationships with them be complicated? Sure. Do they engage in psychological warfare? Not usually on the level that would constitute narcissistic abuse.
There are 3 skills to regulate your emotions they are Interpersonal Effectivness, Emotional Regulation and Distress Tolerance all underpinned by mindfulness. Every human should have this from school age it would prevent so much hurt.
Thank you for the video. My Dad definitely has NPD, not BPD, no doubt about it. I definitely have traits of complex PTSD, but now I have the terminology and conscious understanding of it, which is at least a step forward. I've always felt that a way to deal with it is by changing the metaphor, and kind-of 'enjoying' the fact it makes me an individual, as well as having a sense of humour about things. Don't know if that's healthy or not. Once again, really like your realistic approach to psychological problems, which is much more beneficial than the rather shallow, textbook answers you get from 99% of other people.
I have found the most difficult paradox in trying to deal with someone with Borderline Personality Disorder is this: Being truthful with them without being invalidating. Most people with BPD, the second they feel invalidated, the run or rage. Far too often, the truth of the rest of our experience with them is 100% invalidating. Its often a catch 22.
Thank You, this was awesome. I love someone that sounds pretty close to what you are saying here, and it hurts so much to see this person self destruction, I wish there was a way for him to see himself and to get help and live a better life. I got devalued recently so I have not access anymore, just left with post traumatic stress from where I am recovering. So, so true all you say here. I choose to believe that there is hope for him. :)
it's strange how many of us have difficulty believing the damage we were done. I can relate. I couldn't believe anyone could damage me that way, I became very ill, couldn't realize why, so a whole lot of medical testing was done. Eventually doctors and specialist informed me it was stress..well Yesus I had to accept it! Only then was I able to get help for the right reason.
Learning of Marsha Linehan's discovery of DBT has been so helpful to me. I use the word "REFRAIN" when I see my amygdala leap to confront a problem. She works at the University of Washington now and her life story is remarkable; she was her own first patient.
It's nice that instead of condemning the borderline you offer them the solution to resolve their complex PTSD after all the borderline is not looking to hurt anyone they long to heal.
Not always. I've seen BPDs who get older who simply give into the darkness and stop fighting it. They simply conclude 'its just the way I am' after that they are basically psychopaths.
Mental health illnesses are not actually caused by trauma they're caused by chemical imbalances in the brain and genetics trauma is just a trigger which triggers and causes are two completely different things also there is no cure for mental health illnesses only treating the symptoms and managing the illness once you've got it that's it there's no getting rid of it and if people claim to have been cured of a mental health illness the fact is they never really had a mental illness to begin with and they never will have a mental illness
My psychologist is telling me the exact same thing about BPD and C-PTSD being the same but C-PTSD isn't in the dsm. I experienced so much abuse and traumatic events through the years as a kid, adolescent and adult. Thanks again mate I'll follow you as you're down to earth and easy to follow and obviously know what the score is
Wow mate hats off to you, you're still compassionate and respectful even though you've had it hard. I'm a male borderline, I've wreaked havoc in lives and got 2 kids to two borderline girls. I've suffered alot from my own actions and life in general but I'm trying to change now. Thank you for your videos though you've got a new subscriber 🖒
Wow...NAILED THAT description. Been dealing with someone like this for over 60 yrs. Took almost that long to understand and go no contact. Very painful to go through the episodes this kind of behaviored person does...breakdown-causing, for sure. YES...PTSD/CHILDHOOD TRAUMA! Betting that trauma causes some degree of Dissociative Identity Disorder, which in turn, starts looking like more easily recognized other mental ills, like bipolar, depression, anxiety, borderline, etc....which get treated...but wrongly. If the root causes/trauma/abuse/neglect during Early Childhood Development aren't addressed/repaired, the person will stay messed-up, It's tough to repair, as that early imprinting is almost indelible.
Thank You very much for the AWESOME information/education you give with these video's, Been watching for a while and this one helped change my understanding about myself that I have been searching for my whole life.I love your analogy of the war veteran vs. the other. Now I have a name for it and maybe if we can get it in the DSM-5 true healing can begin. What your doing is a wonderful service to human kind.
In one of your videos you described people with BPD as being "zombie witch doctors". I never heard a statement that resonated so clearly with me and I would describe my mother who has BPD. I don't believe all people with BPD are malignant abusers but I am starting to see more and more each day that my mother at her core is a deranged, bad person or a zombie witch doctor, and is possessed by an evil force, not unlike a pscychopath. All her kindness in the past were merely fronts to cover up the rottenness of her core self. Thank you for this invaluable description we can use for our malignant abusers with BPD.
Allow my response based on my perspective. First allow me to be clear- BPD will destroy any connection in EVERY relationship- That's part of the illness (duh). From my experiences, this guy has hit the nail exactly on the head. Maybe not all, but many of his points are highly valid. I had a bipoloar manic depressive mother whom I cared for till she died. I learned a lot about diseased minds. Now I have a BPD lady in my life and kick myself in the ass for ever not seeing the signs. She hid her illness for 10 months of dating. I didn't think it was possible or possibly I was not watching carefully. I am going into survival mode by arranging my life on a need to know basis, keeping everything private that may be used as a weapon against me, constantly telling my young adult children that they are a VERY important part of my life and always will be, changing my passwords and locking my identification in the safe every night. I am wary of leaving my partner in the house when I go to work. I have changed my Will to warn my executors about what they have to be aware of with a BPD person in the household. I cherish and will honor the underage child who came with the BPD personality. I learn, (thankful for the internet) , I strengthen the walls, (both emotional and household, and stay totally focused on my needs and those close to me. BDP'ers try to be the victim and always will. Do not play that game with a broken mind. Leave if you can or become the emotional warrior that is impervious to the mantra of poor me that the BDPer craves. Peace be with those having to deal with these crazy as bat shit personalities. (Hmmm.. crazy as batshit? I'm going to have to look that one up). And lastly a message to all those who have the disorder- Don't blame those around you- get help, get well or get lost in the wilderness. It just occurred to me - Why am I writing this?- you CAN"T do any of these things. You are BROKEN....
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Every single word you say is 100% accurate. Only people who have lived through a relationship with one will know how incredibly accurate it is. Being with a BPD is emotionally and physically dangerous.
I've just ended a 5 year relationship with a bpd lady, finally saw through the gaslighting and realised the whole time was a mix of manipulation, lies, control and I feel I never even knew them. I'm emotionally and physically drained, I have a successful career, strong personality and a positive, pro active person. I'm having to put myself together with support from counselling. When I fell apart in my first counselling session the counsellor said you've spent 5 years in a manipulative, abusive relationship and we need to get you out asap. He said can't diagnose without seeing the person but pretty confident she has bpd and traits of npd. I was idealised and devalued over and over. These people will wreck your life, I know they don't know what they are doing but if you can get away run as fast as you can and build a happy life. You'll feel like it's you but it's not you can heal and recover, sadly they are unlikely to change.
Cheating is very common among BPD, and you outlined why:
1. fear of attachment and abandonment: cheating gives them an emotional upper hand/control, keeps them from getting too attached, and gives them someone to go to if you leave them
2. devaluation: if they are viewing you negatively, then you are crap and deserve to be cheated on
3. impulsivity: it is obvious how this leads to cheating
There are other reasons why they cheat so often, but those 3 combined together, feeding off each other, paints enough of a picture.
Mine did on me multiple times and I always thought it was because of me. The first time, she told me that she didn't know I loved her and was surprised by my reaction. She also said that what she was chasing with the other guy is what she wanted with me. It was the beginning of what would be eight years of hell for me that I'm not crawling myself out of having regained myself last year.
I am sick of cutting everyone off. That abandonment aspect is the hardest to overcome for me.
Sounds like me ex covert Narc GF
I found out last year that my Mother has NPD and my wife of 23 years has BPD.
I didn't realize I was drowning my entire life. Now I'm treading water. Hopefully soon I can swim. People have no Idea what these type of personalities can do to your mind.
Hey... Yup figured out my mother has NPD big time two years ago and I am in process of divorcing my wife of 18 years as she is a super malignant narcissist/sociopath also... I basically identified that the stumbling block to getting over all of this was my co-dependency. Sooooo I treated my co-dependency (with coaching) so that I could at least start proceedings for getting divorced. I am separated now but I am MUCH MUCH MUCH happier now and its just the beginning... Do it for yourself... as no one else will do it for you... AND do not feel sorry for these people (As in Stockholm syndrome)... eventually you will figure out how absurd it is to feel sorry for these people.. as they especially take advantage of that and drive a truck through it... No matter how destructive things seem a better life IS really possible... sometimes its very hard to see that from being forcibly stuck at a disadvantaged position and view point. You can get your soul and drive back and real will for life with joy...
So - are you moving forward with a divorce? Are there any children involved? I too am at the 23 year mark and need to a change but it is super complicated with a homeschooling family of five with one income. Mr. Grannon has wonderful information but getting out from under the BPD and protecting the kids seems to be a daunting task. One that keeps me stuck where I am!
and you did you realise your own mental disorder as well? People who are well adjusted can actually tell what is dangerous and what isnt. People with trauma, cannot to the same degree.
I'm in a very similar situation right now, amazing how we can be made to think the most outlandish treatment is normal, because- to us- it is
@@extradimension7356 What u pointed out here is important, to not feel sorry for them- that's my problem
I was once diagnosed as suffering from ptsd and another time as a borderline. thanks for the help. I also meditate and I try to live in the moment. I also have a great passion for
music and beautiful things in art and nature and I enjoy being alone. thank you.
I have just ended a 5 year relationship with a BPD. 2.5 years of it being married. I am destroyed. Thanks to randomly watching a video about borderline personality disorder I had a eureka moment and 5 years of just wtf made total sense and I knew to save myself, I had to leave her.
Why go through 5 years of a nightmare just to then leave when you realise what is happening and is finally in a position to help them?
@P. Chretien He stayed with the person for 5 years. 5. He married that person. You would throw all that away rather than try to help?
I had BPD (had, because many of the symptoms are still there, but an emotionally stable environment, medication and therapy has shifted my sense of self so much I no longer fit the amount of requirements needed for a BPD diagnosis) and trust me, there is nothing more that a person with BPD wants than to recover and to stop hurting the people they love.
@P. Chretien I am not entirely sure you understand what BPD actually is. It is a disorder. It is an illness. No one wants to be ill or choose to be ill and hurting others because of that sickness is not a choice for those affected. Choosing not to help a sick person though, is a choice.
I think you might be confusing BPD with APD - Antisocial personality disorder, aka, pshychopathy. In fact, people with BPD are often children of pshychopaths as BPD is caused by emotional abuse.
P. Chretien I hear your hurt. But you do get that it is sthg they and everyone SUFFERS from right? There is genuine hope for everyone involved. I understand you wanted and had to leave ( their biggest cause for the disorder to continue to be pervasive...abandonment...) and that’s entirely ok. I further know and can relate to your pain. It’s their pain but on a much smaller scale ( in their reality) that we feel or left with but if you would be able to comprehend the content of what BPD is and means to those who suffer from it you would essentially ‘ get’ it and perhaps you would be able to move on with compassion and a good clinical understanding. Both. It is essential to our own healing that we who do not suffer from it KNOW that they are not at fault for their behavior. It does not mean you need to condone their behaviors over your own hurt but it means you stay focused on understanding that blame/shame and ridiculing them makes them worse thus makes them repeat their vicious circles...over and over.
I have personally met many ‘thrivers’ who after learning about their issue were happy and worked hard through recovery. A lot of them had partners who they had relationships and children with and family and community members that loved and believed in them and their own healing. It needs not only the person who is inflicted but it needs a community. It needs compassion. Understanding. And the willingness on both ends to conquer this. By not leaving and abandoning them. As I understood has happened to them in very early stages of development.
Yes it is in ways diabolical. Because they cause so much pain. Again cuz they are in so much pain.
Hurt people hurt people. We are humans. We can intercept w/the functioning of our own brains. Or have others who can do that. Wether that is all happening anyways on a subconscious level or in full awareness could be externally helped by...what does it matter. As long as ppl have a drive and the compassion to understand others and themselves, understand that behaviors are NOT who the person is and understand who we are in all of it we can respond.
Why were we with them til we could no longer? I know they are actually truly insightful, lovable and unique beings, who are worth it just as much as anyone of us who loved them in the first place. Their emotional vibrancy is often very intuitive and in hindsight they are capable of feeling for others, relating to others in greater ways than many of us. Their hyper vigilance is so ever-present...that they are tune in on everything in their environment...scanning, permanently scanning for dangers...alerted. They are so restless. Of course. Their nervous system is on freaking overload. Their cortisol levels are spiked at ALL times. They feel NOT safe. Especially around loved ones.
As I come full circle in learning about it all...I get to feel extremely relieved.
It is not ‘ a job’ to help or understand one another as humans but it is what makes us to relate and show compassion on the level of comprehending that THEY don’t exist and WE don’t know THEM...but much rather to get to the point to grasp THEY were lovable to us to begin with. Than we abandoned them cuz their behavior was ridiculous...but why? What and why did what happen here?
I now totally get it. I hope for all of the involved for a better understanding. For communication. For allowing the healing. They are us. We are them. It is not their fault. It’s actually no one’s.
@P. Chretien They really don't though, that is not how it works any more than putting pressure on a depressed person will cure them. You really don't sound like you have even the faintest idea what you are talking about and it is probably a good idea that you stay away from them and other sick people as well to be honest. Good luck with that.
It's a nightmare 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. It never ends. Just when ya think things are peaceful, the craziness starts all over again. You said my thoughts exactly, in-fact, my words that I just told someone the other day: "Dealing with a pwNPD is a walk in the park compared to dealing with a pwBPD."
Great upload. Just Subscribed ~
You are so right about how fast they cycle from love to hate. I had a falling out with my BPD friend of 3 years (who I also suspect is comorbid w NPD) back in September.
An item of mine went missing and was found in her house. When confronted about why it was there, she avoided giving an answer and begun to blame me for things and derailed the conversation from the original topic. We stopped talking completely after her display of denial, gaslighting and verbally berating me after she was caught. In December I received a letter from her apologizing. In the letter she put the responsibility on her step mom for stealing it and said she lied to protect her step mom and avoid confrontation. (Not sure if I believe that) In the letter she also excused her own behavior. I didn't feel like it was a sincere apology but I talked to her anyway.
It was only 3 weeks before it imploded again. She began calling me a Loser when I didn't do what she wanted, she would try to either question or control my every move and also was acting very secretive. The other day, she snapped at me so I snapped back at her. I was gonna take some space from her but let it go. She was then posting on FB about "toxic friends" and how she's had to cut off 3 people. We never had a conversation where she "cut me off." Then after a couple of days, she came by my house to pick something up. I handed it to her and said "see ya" to go back inside. I didn't really want to be around her bc of how negative she is. She starts screaming "Wait you're not even going to apologize???" I asked what I'm apologizing for. She said bc I ripped her head off the other day. (Overdramatizing and conveniently forgetting her part of the situation.) I explained to her why I had that reaction, which was bc I felt triggered by her, it reminded me of how my NPD sister would treat me. She pretty much told me I "should have known" thats not how she meant it. So when she snaps, I should know thats not what she meant, but when I snap back, I need to apologize for it. She has a different standard for herself than for everyone else. She also compared this situation to the previous argument we had about stealing and she again said that I "should have known" she would never steal. I don't get how I should have known when she was lying to protect her step mom. It obviously made her look more suspicious by lying. I should just KNOW things that she's not telling me. I felt that this was going to be a ridiculous circular conversation so I just said "I'm gonna go inside now." and didn't engage with her. I hear her as I'm walking away saying "Fuck you" and I just ignore it. Then I started getting berating text messages from her saying how I'm running away, I'm emotionally stunted, don't know how to communicate, saying that we cant be friends and how shes not going to forgive me this time..... I have an apology letter from her but her brain has twisted it to think she is the one who forgave me. She tried to use her friendship as leverage to cover up her own abandonment wound. Her approach was not one of wanting to communicate, it was trying to instigate and provoke me, or to get me to concede to her by being the only one to take blame. A person like that feels like either way they are winning. I chose neither and walked away. GREY ROCK.
I just watched this (6 years later...) and I think it may be the best video I've ever watched about BPD. Still (6 years after it was made). I'm a social worker and about 50% of my clients have BPD or complex PTSD or both. About 15 years ago I had both. With enough determination you definitively can recover. I'm living proof.
My short recipe
1. Realize that your pain is not the center of the universe. Zoom out spacewise and you are just another ant. Zoom out timewise and you are not even there.
2. Realize that your pain is not important. Not meaningful in any way. It is just something you feel because you've always felt it. It's just a bad habit like any other.
3. Stop placing your recovery in the hands of others (psychiatrist, doctors, lovers, family members, friends, etc.). Your pain - your responsibility.
4. You CAN bare feeling pain. The pain is not going to kill you. The only way you can get rid of it is by feeling it. Cry for weeks, months, years if you have to. But don't run away from it coz you'll be running away your whole life. It will pass eventually. I promise. Don't forget; fearing having to feel pain is faaaar worse than actually feeling it.
This seems very helpful. Ty
Thank you for talking about the need for compassion with regards to BPD sufferers. The default level of pain is off the charts for them. If it's hard to be in a relationship with a person suffering with BPD, imagine the hell of having it yourself. Also, you are BANG on with the CPTSD/BPD connection. Too many therapists have no idea. None. Your directness here is invaluable.
He called nasty. I don't think he gave them any hope at all. I think he would push them right off the bridge. What's the sense of living if what this guys says nothing but horrible things about people with BPD. And the drug addiction. If I was diagnosed with BPD and listened to this it would probably be the last thing I would do.
If he were the therapist there is no way a BPD person could live with the hopelessness that this man gives these NASTY BPD people.
Maybe BPD is one of those things you have to have in order to truly understand it from the inside out?
@laurie eno Nice to hear someone's thoughts close to my own. Was so angry at the PDs in my family for years, simultaneous with the fear that "I had it too!" and sometimes getting chills as I recognized the similar behaviors on display in myself and in the literature, in certain instances. It may be hard to always sort out when it is CPTSD and when it is an actual PD. but just the awareness that the disorder can create reactive behaviors that superficially resemble those of the disorder, is a helpful gain to have made. As we all try to untie this knot, it's good to pick apart how this bit got mixed up with that. Sadly, I think it's true that the desire to become self aware and change is almost never a characteristic of the truly personality disordered. It's more likely to be the brave decision of a complex post-traumatic stress survivor.
With all due respect, this comparison confuses me. Nobody should be in a relationship with an untreated borderline. And no untreated borderline should be in a relationship with anybody. They are the human embodiment of a dysfunctional interpersonal relationship.
I had no clue that I suffered with BPD through my early 20's but I always knew something was very wrong. At 18, during my one and only severe mental breakdown (1st ever breakup was the trigger), I actually crossed the borderline into a complete state of psychosis where I caused self harm and could not function, sleep or eat for 2 days. I used to use the umbrella diagnosis of depression to explain it but really had no clue what I was dealing with until my 30's. Looking back now, I should have been committed to a psychiatric institution but somehow I made it through.
I was very promiscuous, unpredictable, rebellious with bouts of rage, started drinking heavily and using drugs at a very young age because of my horrible experience in the foster care system. I thought it was all part of growing up or what some call teenage angst so I never asked for help but was also never offered therapy from social workers or foster parents.
Unknowingly, I have been the catalyst to the destruction of every relationship. When a boyfriend would jokingly call me crazy, they had no clue how crazy I really was. I shouldn't have dated back then and am now filled with remorse for hurting the kind ones. The good news is that prognosis for young people with BPD is actually very good. Simply stated, they grow out of it as they get a lot older. I can confidently say that I've outgrown it. I've read tons of health and spiritual books, dropped my antidepressants for amino-acid therapy (try Whole Foods brands) and at 35 am currently in the best relationship of my entire life.
I am so happy and at peace now that I feel it's time for me to give back to the innocent children stuck in the horrible foster care system I grew up in. I agree with Richard when he says that dealing with a Narcissists is a walk in the park compared to BPD's. Being borderline is being incessantly neurotic, explosive and physically harmful to oneself and others.
This video is the equivalent of a nice warm hug. Thank you. Very insightful. I've just finished watching this and I'm about to visit my counsellor. I feel like I have a better understanding of PTSD now so hopefully I can express this better to him.
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My mother is a narcissist like I mentioned. I was the scapegoat child. I was abused on many different levels, directly and indirectly. I was never allowed to say how I felt, so I stuffed down my emotions and never was able to learn how to process them. I moved away 6 years ago. Around 3 years ago I stumbled across the term "borderline". My world flipped upside down because I could see these qualities in myself. I have improved immensely within these past 3 years, immensely. I've met other "border lines" through DBT. What I find unfair is that we develop these traits because of severe abuse, then we see videos like this, (speaking of the worst case scenerios) and then we're shunned as adults, after everything we've already been through. Again, borderline's are so incredibly misunderstood.
Debra Vanaria wow this is completely my experience. It isn't bad enough that we've had so much narc abuse, but then we are damaged too. It is so unfair. Can we heal?
If this is what I have when you hear ppl say this it makes you feel even worse.. why don't they just kill everyone with this? May as well
My family is mentally fucked up, my sister is a narcissist, my mom is a schizophrenic and I most likely have BPD. But I know some people have it worser than me so I should probably shut up.
Ugnė Janušauskaitė My uncle is a schizophrenic, dad is a covert narc, mom is co-dependent and I’m a teenage semi OCD ridden, BPD diagnosed, alcohol use disorder diagnosed person
Thank you for this video! So affirming to me. I'm finally able to face the fact my father is a (recovered alcoholic), Narcissist w/Borderline. I was treated for "bi-polar" at age 25 w/meds and talk therapy. Weaned off meds at age 27 by an amazing doctor who never shamed me or labeled me, but sadly, NEVER even asked me about my childhood or about the environment I was raised in! I haven't had a manic or depressive episode in almost 16 yrs (of living a full and blessed life: marriage, raising kids, managing home, volunteer/full to part-time work, friendships, etc). I always knew that I was just one of the pretty little objects of my father's varied forms of torture. Looking back, I grimly suppose I was a particularly "delicious milkshake" of sorts. I just needed enough time, and distance from this father to begin to heal. Thank you for your knowledge, honesty, humor and compassion. Peace to all, Liz P.
I haven't heard of Complex PTSD. Your honesty and humor are great-- in combination with the knowledge and insight you possess, I think you're probably impacting a lot of people in a really positive way. I'm excited to watch more of your videos.
Some people don't care who you are. They only keep you around because they NEED you.
"They (borderlines) can make narcissists look like a walk in the park."
1000% true Richard, 1000% true
My ex projected his borderline characteristics and would call me this, as I was the one completely devastated by the relationship that i had physical illnesses by the trauma and no question cptsd, yet he jumped right into another relationship immediately. The confusion, the toxic “harem” around him, all of it was so maddening.
Same thing happened to me too Amy. I had developed physical symptoms that lasted for several years after the trauma of being cheated on my her in our marriage: digestive problems, chronic heartburn acid reflux, an ulcer, daily heart palpitations, all of it. And when we finally split up last year, within about two weeks or so, if even that long, it all abated. I don't even really remember what it feels like to have felt that way then.
One point I would like to add... Borderline a made a habit of not expressing emotions throughout their younger years. Also, many of us had "care givers" who had explosive emotions.. And usually another caregiver who would tell us not to react to the other parents explosive behavior. Through seeing one extreme, example; a mothers narcissistic rage and then having your enabler father telling you to ignore it, don't react, don't say anything... We ultimately learn that emotions are not safe. So we naturally try to ignore them, stuff them down, distract from them. An analogy that is similar... Say you're a child and you believe theirs a monster in your closet, but you never check to look... The mister becomes bigger and scarier over time.. To avoid this monster you're willing to go to any lengths to forget the monster is there or to relieve your fear of the monster... When the real cure is to open the door and take a look inside: when you do, you realize their is no monster.
Same thing with borderline's and emotions... When stuff them down, suppress them for so long, they grow and grow and you'll go to any lengths to keep you "safe" from them... Drinking... Sex, self harm (physical pain is easier to experience then emotional for borderline's.). What the borderline needs to do is stop running, turn around and look their emotions straight in the face. When we do this, over time we realize they are not scary, we need them and they serve as a way for us to receive valuable information. When a borderline is given then tools, we have all the possibilities in the world to heal.
+Debra Vanaria one more point, I heard this analogy that makes perfect sense to me... A narcissist is like a shark, and a borderline is a wounded bear. Both can hurt you but their reasons for doing so are not the same. Thanks for sharing your videos. I appreciate all that you do. Being compared to a narc definitely upset me tho but this video is still educational.
+Debra Vanaria this was gooooooood
I love what u said about the shark n the wounded bear
They often seek out that monster later in life too. Because they never got a chance to overcome it, they never had the chance to react, talk about it, or overcome it at the time. The father that was violent, the bully that the teacher ignored and put you in detention instead, even the sibling that just abandoned you because they didn't want to play with you. Sometimes they are innocent victims, sometimes they are full blown psychopathic narcissists they've found and put themselves through immense self-harm doing this.
Coming from at least a thousand or more hours of research on BPD, and experiencing the aftermath, this is the single greatest video on the subject. I hope that BPDs will get out of their own way and listen to this. There are people that love you unconditionally. You are enough, even with your past and all of your broken pieces life hurts and is messy. It's going to be alright.
Watch back from the edge with Marsha Linehan is in it .. she's one of the ones that helped create dialectic behavioral therapy
Here here.
>There are people that love you unconditionally.
Yes, and those people are stupid/misinformed, and I will leave them for an abuser.
Why do you like abusers?
My mother was diagnosed with this by a psychiatrist, I loved her with all my heart but... well, to put it simply, she put me through hell. I think I struggle with something like codependency because of this
Thank you so much for the quick response--I feel like I am gaining clarity quickly since first encountering your channel last night. I was feeling like there was no ground under me, now I can feel a little more of the stability in the world around me. Thank you for sharing your grounded-ness with the rest of us.
Thanks for the very interesting video. I have suffered with Severe BPD since childhood, my earliest hallucinations were at the age of 5. I don't remember any trauma at that time, but my disposition has unfortunately left me open to abuse throughout my life. When people ask me about my illness, I describe it like I am being emotionally peeled, as if I am walking around with my skin peeled back. I hear whispers, random voices, electrical noises in my brain, and what I affectionately refer to as - the shadow people. Although I agree with the process of Idealization, devaluation and fears of rejection and or abandonment as very real, Borderlines, (especially those prone to people pleasing) can and do get taken advantage of, and because people notice a quirkiness or strangeness about that person, it makes it easier for others to blame them; make them the scapegoat, in order to justify there own faults or wrong doings. I have come across this many times in my life. I know my own shortcomings, and through years of therapy, I am getting better at deciphering real from imagined. Another problem is not knowing my boundaries. I do not seem to have that natural in-built filter that normal folk have. I am the type of person that tells my whole gory, horrific life events in the first 5 minutes of meeting someone, which ends up scaring off the right people, and leaves me with the wrong sort of people. The people who want to take advantage of the women from Fraggle Rock! I still suffer from extreme emotional states, that can last hours to days, and can be triggered by a simple thing like a Toilet Paper advert. I do not feel the need to hurt myself anymore, although that feeling still lingers from time to time, unfortunately I am still unable to control those intense emotional states. I came across an article in the LA Times entitled: Borderline Personality Disorder grows as healthcare concern (2009). It was a genuine article that I could relate to. It talks about how new research has suggested that people with BPD are pre-disposed to be emotionally sensitive, because not everyone who has BPD has suffered abuse or neglect in childhood, so in other words: We are just born this way!
I was diagnosed with borderline. I have worked on fixing it alot. I got rid of the drama I created. Now I just feel numb. I just don't want to be around people. I realized the more I am by myself the more peaceful I am. Although sometimes I get sad and lonely I just think back to the times I would get so angry and irritated. I think having a pet helped me alot. I idealize him till today. Maybe that's because he cant talk...lol. The internet helped alot. I love to learn new things. But people just irritate me unless I can learn from them. I love debates with intellectual people who dont base anything I say with emotion but with facts and logic. I found atheism helped me too. There should be a diagnoses for getting irritated by dumb people. I know that sounds narcissistic but Seriously or less evolved people reaction disorder.
Tara Mokaya how will you learn from people when you're rarely around them? i was like that too now i love being around them and there is a way not to be irritated by people you'll learn from them without judgeing
+Tara Mokaya It is easier to not be around people, and yes, lonely. However if it keeps you feeling safe and calm, then I recommend it for the BPD.I keep my associations down to a minimum, not always easy, as I am a social creature by nature, and when I get that burst of energy where everyone and everything is wonderful, that is when I socialise, and that is a when it gets tricky, when I meet up with people and start divulging too much information.
That's avoidance
Simone Jamilla same here
borderline personality and narcissism ar comorbid, according to sam vaknin who does videos on narcissism on youtube. in one of his videos, he explains that borderlines make their connections with other people out of the vulnerable, open, intimate borderline-part. and when the connection is there, the boarderline-part gets scared of the intimacy, so the narcissism-part takes over to protect the person from abandonment by controlling and punishing the other person... i found that interesting
Ah thats interesting. Give my ex a drink and you could visibly see that shift from vulnerable borderline to bullying narc taking place!
SPARTANLIFECOACH
yes, unfortunately, i also made such experiences. looking back at it i think that's what made it so hard to believe that these bullying parts were even there. it was like you described in another video, that my brain mis-interpreted reality by just filtering out that bullying afterwards to keep the image of the sweet person up.
SPARTANLIFECOACH it's like the borderline is able to create such a perfect illsion of intimacy that gives you enough insentive to gaslight-away the narcissistic part of them by yourself. because you want that drug of simulated intimacy again. you become addicted to it. but it's just an illusion created by the borderline's ability to mirror you and be "the one" for you. as long as you submit.
SPARTANLIFECOACH Re: Richard's X and a drink... It's funny with my mother (who was NPD and very insecure) and an Alcoholic... that when she got drunk she would flip into this state of being super super super super EVIL... beyond imagining.... It was funny at a key point in the evening she would point a finger and say the word "Question...." with a crooked smile and raised eyebrow... We all knew we were in for a hell of a time where pure insanity and evil accusations could only ensue... So everytime she said "Question...." We would ALL instantly run out of the room, go to bed .. leave the house and so on.. just leave the miserable narcissistic evil drunk listening to her "Julio" and Charles Asnavar records all on her own... It's also curious that my Narcisisstic girlfriend will NOT take a drink... (maybe to her credit) but I wondered if the same "phenomenon" would result and she guards against that.????
not all borderlines have narcissistic traits ive struggled with this disorder for close to 15 years and have just about every trait of the borderline with dissociative issues as well which yes includes shitty relationships and extreme fear of abandonment and so on but i dont try to control or play around with people's emotions i am what i am unfortunately i cant have a relationship cos my head wont let me the constant twisted paranoid thoughts are to intense and every other day want to binge on any substance i can get at the time and dissociate from everything leaving me with no memories of previous night and having to find out all the dumb shit i had done feeling so much hatred and shame for myself then all of sudden doing it all over again but im definitely no bully or ask any one to submit to me everything messed up we do is all internalised which i know couldnt be easy for the partner i could never impose my issues on any one else thats one of the problems thats why can seem so distant and unemotional but not trying to manipulate any one just really fucken scared of being hurt we have a lot of love to give and the intensity of it can feel amazing when happy but on the other hand the intensity of pain and rejection is so fucken unbearable id have to wipe myself out with alcohol just so i wouldnt contemplate suicide or self harming over the many years though learnt to just shut off those emotions which in turn shut off more emotions than i wanted obviously not a good way to go about it thats why cant keep a relationship so if a borderline seems unemotional distant angry towards you they havnt lost their feelings for you it just means that they've exhuasted all there energy on hiding the constant intense pain from the rest of the world and just need someone to say to them that no matter what your there for them and then give them a hug they love hugs well thats my quick take on borderline froms years of destructive experiences with mental dissorders haha cos there's so many aspects to it could be here all night talking about it
just wanted to say to spartanlifecoach as well ive always loved watching your clips find very insightful and helpful and helped with my decision last year to leave my trade of 10 years as a stonemason and start uni doing psychology and cognitive neuroscience only thing ive ever wanted and loving every minute of it thanks from the mad aussie
Great vid. Your explanation of CPTSD in BPD is very insightful. One more piece of the puzzle of my recovery from relationship with someone suffering with BPD just fell into place. The fog is lifting and it is an amazing feeling. I am remembering who I am. Thank you.
It's great to listen to you. I think it's good that you give your time to the young people. I wish I had someone like you when I was 16. That would have given me another life as grownup. It took me many years until I went to a therapist and asked for help. To feel this horrible sence of not being well and see the world right and fail every time is exhausting. You do need to work hard with yourself but what a wonderful feeling when you get better.
Thank you for your work Richard.
This is by far the best video that I have ever watched on Borderline...my Sister had this (undiagnosed) disorder and it consumed her, me, and the rest of my family, right up until her sudden death at the age of 30 (I was 27)...my inevitable spiral led to a mental breakdown...years of meds and counselling followed in order to try to pierce through the layers of C-PTSD...I’m finally seeing some light...a package of Therapy, Physical Exercise, Diet, Massage and Meditation have all counteracted the demons...they are still there in the background, but I am in a better position to fight...my only regret was that I couldn’t help her as I didn’t know what was wrong - nobody did...we just had to watch her destroy herself...I think of her daily and her death left such a void that I was convinced that the same thing was happening to me...thank you so much Richard, for sharing your extensive knowledge - you are amazing!! 🌈🦋🙏
im feeling hopeless after watching these..and my therapist sucks ass...he hasnt a clue...
I think my doubts of being borderline have completely disappeared whilst watching this video. There is nothing I can't relate to of what you've said and I have found the will to search for help in a time where it is most needed. Also I cried. A lot. Thank you, stranger.
No problem, glad to have helped in some way
If 10% of shrinks were this on the ball.
I don't think they care. Just like doctors (I don't consider shrinks as doctors) they see so many people all day and give them very little time just like a factory worker processes the products that pass through the machines. They treat their patients as objects, no more than that, and that's what they're trained to do. This is far far away from humanistic or scientific.
Healing Bean They are Drs, they make $$$ writing scripts for drugs that don't work, &sometimes kill. They don't care what their suicide rate is. Dr Drew in the US is a MD self-proclaimed psych (in his state you can switch specialties with a course, WTF?) who is always in the media speading misinformation & who has an ASTOUNDINGLY high death rate of patients....both high profile & at the hospital he headed for 20. yrs......not only has his license not been revoked but he has a wider audience than ever. He doesn't even follow National Guidelines on addiction, yet calls himself an "addiction specialist" & "Psychiatrst".....
where can i find a counselor like you!
Barbara Brinkmeyer Where is your evidence for BPD sufferers being "sadistic" or medication having no efficacy for them Barbara?!
Also, to reject something within the human condition is to reject it within yourself. Let's hope your kids have 100% mental health or you'll reject them too huh!
Because he dealt with it.
Most psychiatrists have never dealt with it.
Absolutely agree with you. It's severe PTSD from childhood trauma. Thank you for this video.
Richard, God bless you--this video explains the connection between borderline personality disorder and complex-ptsd from childhood trauma that I have been observing in my own life for the past 20 years. The moment you explained the causal relationship it seemed so obvious! Thank you for adding your expertise on this subject to the field. This information is extremely necessary for me as I work desperately to build a healthy self-image and create the life I want and deserve.
Jane Hunyor 2 years later. I’ve just found Richard too. For years I’ve been struggling through life. You get so tired of trying. When I was a child, the thought that got me through was that someday I would be away from it and it would be better. Then you’re an adult and it’s not any better; somehow the abuse rages on internally .. everything is dysfunctional. Hope burns eternal though 💫
HI. Thank you for ur videos. I have been watching you for couple of years. Codependency & Narcissism. I have recently being diagnosed with BPD. Self diagnosed then confirm by psychiatrist at the hospital . I will do what ever it takes. I'm 42 and have 2 adult children who have lived through this and still love me. I feel like ive had my life ripped off and its not fair. My Mum has Aspergers and my Dad depression .... I love them and we have a great relationship. I am seeing a therapist who can put me on to DBT and been watching " The Borderline Life" she is telling my story. This really sucks! very lonely.....Knowledge is Power, so thank you from the bottom of my emptiness xx
I found it helpful to watch youtube vidoes of people who have been diagnosed with BPD. Interesting to see the sincerity in their eyes when they said certain things etc. Because I could see for myself how real their feelings are, on certain subjects. I used to find it hard to believe, that someone could feel that strongly about the certain specific types of things they do. But it helped me to listen to them talk about BPD. Its just a time bomb.
Radical acceptance means acceptance without approval what a fantastic skill
Im doing DBT right now there are heroine addicts and cutters everyone has recovered with DBT
BPD its hell its 50% hereditary and 50% being bought up in an invalidating enviroment. It is emotional disregulation and paralyzing fear that causes impulsivity
I have learned so much from you over the past 7 months. I bought 2 courses and follow your You-Tube videos. I would be in such a darker place if I hadn't stumbled upon your videos. I have C-PTSD and a fawning-style co-dependency/people pleaser syndrome, and may not have known if it weren't for you and Ross Rosenberg. Thank You. Great video as always.
Thank you so much for this I am very glad I found your videos.
19:19 oh my ... youve described disassociated behaviour SO well!
I want to start crying because your 2 or 3 video on Narcissism and BPD have helped me immensely. I recently met a young lady and I knew something wasnt quite right and now I think I know what.
i had no problem paying bills on time, keeping my checking acct balanced, and cleaning my house until going through 2 narcissistic relationships, how in the hell did that affect my object constancy when i had it before. the effects were most prevalent after the second narc. how did i loose this "object constancy" exactly how do i get it back.
The EXACT same thing has happened to me. But I only had one very brief relationship with BPD girl 18 months ago. She fucked my mind up.
Great video again! Each time I learn something new. Thank you. The part about manifesting scenarios reminded me of a quote I like by Carl Jung:“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.”
Hi Richard. The key point you keep returning to is childhood. The Adverse Childhood Experience matrix is clear although not comprehensive but, even so, I found it extremely helpful to orient myself. Your videos have been incredibly helpful, especially as I've not been able to access any in-person therapeutic support which has come even close to you.
I'm sharing it. Everyone who has had an incomprehensible childhood should see this.
I am 66 and this video finally helped me understand why am am so negative
and sad. Triggered, and over reactive.
Thank you Richard. I recently found Don't sweat the small stuff and it is all small stuff.
It is helping me to self-regulate. I listen to it alot.
Well done. You have done your homework and you're moving forward. Excellent work.
Thank you for making this video. I seriously wish this was out a couple years ago when I needed help dealing with my friend just wearing me down. I have since dropped her as a friend and I'm starting to heal. It is so strange to see life without the "spell" of sorts cast over you when they have a borderline personality disorder.
This is brilliant man, this describes my father and also some traits in myself. God bless you. You really are helping me set some things straight in myself and in my family. Thank you.
This video has been such an eye-opener for me. I've been in a tumultuous relationship for the past 9 months with a man who fits this description to an absolute tee! After going No Contact a couple months ago (I thought he was a classic NPD case), I broke down and ended up seeing him this past weekend. We talked for hours, everything seemed wonderful, the intense connection that originally brought us together had returned...he said he had missed me, wanted to start over, that I was an amazing person, etc. We both agreed that we had to work on communicating to move forward.
He mentioned that he wanted me to initiate plans more often, which prompted me to say that I often hesitated to do so because of his tendency to push me (as well as everyone else) away. During these "dark cloud" moments you could actually see/feel the shift, he would change from warm and inviting to completely cold and off-putting like the flip of a switch. Even though I said this in the most gentle way possible (and said I would be happy to amend my behavior now that I knew my invitations would be welcomed), he accused me of saying he was a miserable, terrible person, and that our relationship would never work because I (this seems even more ridiculous to type than to say out loud) perform in theatre and it reminded him of an unhappy time in his life. He's come up with ridiculous reasons for us not to be together before, but this one is the most ridiculous of all, especially considering that he is also an actor and we met in a show! I was stunned.
I couldn't believe how quickly he went from valuing me to devaluing me, his emotions did a complete 180 turn in the course of 3 minutes. I asked how he could say that, when he had just asked me to start over, and his reply was, "You're obviously willing to work at this and try, and I'm not, so that's it." Wow.
The next day I tried to call him, hoping that cooler heads might prevail, but he refused to talk to me and instead texted me to say that he didn't want to hear from me again. I wish I could say I was surprised, but this is the third or fourth time he has done this to me and I can't help someone who is unaccountable.
He has shared several childhood stories that have led me to believe that he suffers from complex PTSD. He has abandonment issues involving his parents and older brother, and was (what I consider) abused by a female teacher when he was a teenager. He has substance issues (pot and alcohol), which are enabled by his parents who I now believe are overcompensating for their lack of attention in his earlier years. He simultaneously craves and fears intimacy. Every time we get close, he promptly shoves me away. It makes me so sad because I truly love him and care about him and want to help, but this kind of crazy-making behavior is too much to take. I have some of the markers of People Pleaser Syndrome and I can't live the rest of my life with people like this. Thank you so much for sharing your insight with us.
@@practicaldreamyr sounds like he got narcissistic injury from your comment. (And there was noth8ng wrong with your comment about that he pushes you away)
You spoke truth and he could not handle it. He knew he could not control and fool you anymore so he had no use for you. He sounds like a narcissistic person.
You have helped me immensely , knowledge is power, I am stubborn as hell and I will heal! Thank you, merry Christmas , namaste Richard
Very good. I live with BPD. You are the first person to visually and deeply explain more of the reason why people fall into this disorder. Having chronic post traumatic experiences as a child unable to escape and unable to start life with an understanding of basic emotions. I also suffer from Anxiety which is not a surprise but PTSD as well from my military service. I can account that the two traumatic experiences are two totally different range of emotions. Both a very unpleasant disorder both inducing nightmares to this day but about two different things. My military trauma i dream of the incident that causes me fear But when I dream and have the nightmares about my childhood trauma its a very Emotional nightmare and experience. Reliving the Feelings of being taunted or whatever that paralyzes your sense of well being. And not a visual event. Not that they can't be of those in itself, but for me its the emotional burden, the fear of just experiencing fear so much, if not All the time of every second waking moment. I experienced extreme fatigue growing up too . needing naps after school and even falling asleep on the bus all the way home.
I remember a lot of moments in my life that I believe was a portion of the many cases of chronic trauma growing up as a teen but have sporadic memory as a grade school girl. Only remembering a few big repetitive traumas (like mother yelling crying and threarning to leave and move out as she irrationally packed kitchen ware in garbage bags" but as a little girl even though the relationship was very uneventful or loving and more intimidating than anything you didn't want her leaving you. She was i think mad and overwhelmed raising 3 kids alone but always blaming us for her misery.. my extended family lived over seas in Finland so I only had mom .
You mentioned experiences that may have happened at one years old and then a different trauma at 5 amd so on. Can trauma at a such young age really affect an individual . lets say lack of nurture if I would cry at 12 months or 24months. Because I was told by a family friend who was close long time friends with my mom recently that when my twin and I were infants my father who started to exhibit paranoid schizophrenia in his late 30s.it was told he would push the double carriage where my sister and I were laying in napping and such , when we began to cry he pushed our carriage outside even in the winter because we were crying. And leave us there. Obviously his metal illness had a lot to do with his peculiar actions. Can this cause trauma for a infant? Other than not being attended to for crying. ? How do we start to try to remember possible big events in our life that may be uncomfortable that is being surpressed?
I guarantee my life between 1 and 9 was uncomfortable with how remember my life during the higher grade level, .
Anyway I can talk about this topic for ever like you. One more thing, the older i get the more i realize there is medical information on this disorder which does help just educating yourself on BPD. You start to realize what you felt growing up was REAL and the baffling uncomfortable feelings had a root . and not living in utter confusion because as a girl I never knew if what I was really feeling the awkwardness and not knowing if it was actually real. Just a real living out of the body childhood.
Thank you so much for clearly explaining Complex PTSD. It made many light bulbs go off about my own after effects of long term abuse from different life situations. When you know something, you can heal it easier. I had heard the term previously but wasn't aware of the exact meaning. Bless you. Keep up the good work.
i have seen many mental professionals and most treat BPD as if it doesnt exist.the only diagnosis i have ever been given is clinical depression which is cop out diagnosis on the doctors part.i diagnosed myself as BPD and have been working since i was a young adult to improve.i started out violent etc. but now at the age of 30 i still classify myself as such but have become high functioning thru mindfulness.its a daily battle,some days are worse than others but ,hey im still here.
learning to laugh about it helps.
rosaline Pruitt doctors can not diagnose you with a mental health illness because they are not qualified or trained in mental health only person who can diagnose you with a mental illness is a psychiatrist who's trained for ten years as a doctor then trained got qualified to deal with mental health
Very Funny in places and insightful.
I have certainly had my share of narcissists in my time... but when I had my first run-in with a borderline it was real eye opening experience. I 100% agree with all of the characteristics that you outline that make "Borderline" distinct from Narcissism. I think the "abandon first" strategy employed by the Borderline is spot on also as well as the very sudden anger and disphoria as well as the tendency to dissociation and paranoia. Also completely agree about the "character" or borderline protagonist constantly falling out... AND I agree in the person I was dealing with that some form of C-PTSD was evident from their upbringing. The thing that was interesting was that this Borderline was being very exploitative, almost abusive and her grasp of reality was really very questionable... However I was determined to call her out on everything and NOT stop until I had landed on the other side. Normally if you employ such a tactic with a Narcissist, things can actually be resolved pretty quickly actually... BOY I was not prepared for what this borderline could "generate" out of thin air... I would call her out on the first line of defense... then she would gaslight and twist to such a unbelievable degree... Then I would call out and quash that second whole line.. then a whole new line of defenses would spring up (a bit like the ping pong thing that Richard has talked about but gone really wrong)... AND you keep going and going and going and calling out setting straight, calling out setting straight, and so on and so and so on... The borderline in this case employs a strategy where a normal person would give up and whatever bullshit that the Borderline had contrived to make stand at that particular point would therefore have to stand permanently. I on the other out of principal have been so sick and tired of being taken advantage of by other (abusive) people that I wanted to absolutely follow through and land squarely on the other side no matter what! It was like going 25 rounds with Mike Tyson or it was like a protracted battle of trench warfare from world war one... I had no idea that such a borderline can be sooooo persistent in their gas-lighting and transference... [VASTLY underestimated their scale and capacity to do that].. It is absolutely true a narcissist is a veritable "cake walk" by comparison to a Borderline... There are things that are reminiscent of narcissists in a borderline perhaps but there is much else besides that is really wrong. With the particular borderline in question one's "spidey" senses feel that there is really an unimaginable level of shame at their core of their being and everything seems to operate from a really damaged and brutal , sullen and dark place... That's how it feels to me. A borderline is just not capable of managing that... Narcissists on the other hand "feel" quite different (to me).
Sooo I definitely agree with the distinctions that you set out (from first hand "dealings" with both Narcissists and more rarely Borderline(s).
Another great post. Thank you. It's interesting to hear you speak about narcissists and those with Borderline Personality Disorder who want to get better. I have always been under the impression that those people don't seek help.
I had your exact experience. BPDs are far worse than NPDs in the damage they do to their partners because of their emotional instability, abuse, violence and insane rage attacks. I too went through a near breakdown and depression when she left after cheating on me. And I went through it TWICE! I forgave her the first time, mistake, and wisely moved on the second, but had to go through therapy and medication to get through the accompanying depression and pain.
Thank you. Oh my goodness. What clarity! I think I’ve been struggling with CPTSD - not ADD (I once had a professor ask if I had ADD). You describe it so well… one trauma at one age… and another at another… and they’re all really arbitrary, but what sticks out in my mind are the emotions that experiences are related to. My memory is almost 100% emotionally based. I realized I was a high-functioning borderline when I was in college and I think subconsciously majored in Buddhist Philosophy to help myself. I just got done with 2 years of schema therapy and it helped so much. I also just got out of my second relationship with a narcissist. Have you done any videos about how narcissists and borderlines are drawn to each other? Thank you so much for your work!
I absolutely love your videos.
Thank you for being you. It's so inspiring and encouraging to see a person talk with such engagement and care about the different types of suffering and experiences people are trying to deal with and get their heads around.
What you've said in this one about complex PTSD, childhood trauma, and the idea that this runs in the threads of most/all the personality disorders seems like THE area psychology should focus on because i'm sure it will bear the most fruit at so many levels. I even feel like the troubles of violence and conflict and suffering in the world are all aspects of childhoods in which people didn't get to experience love and the same time as being taught to be empathic and nurturing. Seems like cycles of behaviour/feeling amongst damaged people who go on to have children without the self-reflectivity/awareness that could break the cycle.
I so this a few months ago, all on the same issues - he also mentions the reluctance of the DSM to incorporate the existing work about childhood trauma:
Childhood Trauma, Affect Regulation, and Borderline Personality Disorder
My experience validates everything you’re saying. Thank you for all you’re help and hope for my future dealing with CPTSD
At 6:47 WOW ...Great definition !!! I never thought if it as a PTSD manifestation. This is dead on.This is really powerful. Thanks.
Absolutely spot on Richard. My life situation to a T. Currently having therapy every two weeks but I feel like watching your helpfully videos helps me better understand what to explain to my counselor. keep doing what your doing. This information is gold to people like me. (not that I'm making it all about me, that would be narcisstic!) cheers.
Thank you Richard! I'm almost there with the "why". First diagnosed as a young adult as borderline, then at middle-aged as bipolar--now understanding the "narc effect", it's source and on-going complications. I told my psych doc I would appreciate if he explored CPTSD as a possible explanation of my current mental state...
I hope you get this, it's so old...Thankyou for this. I am one of the Borderlines in recovery, and it should be known that there are more and more of us in the last ten years with DBT. I like that you emphasized the will to heal. our sense of broken is so deep that its agonizing to go through the process and many give up, therapist included. But I didn't want to be broken anymore, bruised I can handle but the trauma was going to kill me, literally. I have a daughter. I would look at her and say she deserves a mother. all she did was be born and the thought that my shit could mess her up for life tortured me. I eventually spent 7years of progressive therapy. Medicine and stabalization from hospital, drug and alcohol for three years, sexual assault counseling, parenting support and an inner awareness many dont have. I stuck it out year after year. I breaks my heart that this disorder is still being stigmatized and that more borderlines are not uplifted towards treatment that works
I knew a family where the mother had borderline and narcissism as well. Seen her use an xbox as an medieval weapon swinging it with the cable only because her little son told her to stop hitting his dad. Screaming in her sons face how she hates him. Kids crying like you can't imagine. What brought about all this? The dad said no when the mom asked him to buy the kids clothes. The dad was no angel and can be money tight but seriously it was the most incredible thing I've ever seen. Screaming and lying on the ground out of control smashing vases at the dad missing him.
The strange thing was when it was over she was actually surprised at me being angry at her for putting the little ones through all that trauma. The entire family from a grown ass son to little kids in tears. You can call it a personality disorder, its just plain evil tis all.
Saw signs of the impulsitivity when she would renovate and upgrade the house on a whim, moved the kids to another city and then moved back. Cranky and in pain the morning especially.
The sad thing is she once went up to a policemen and tried shouting at him and trying to make him back down. He slammed her on the car and cuffed her. only a matter of time before something bad happens.
It's like narcissism on crack.
Yes they can be very nomadic...we never got the chance to make long term friends... my mother would feel the need to move every few years. Then did this shift 12'000 miles just after I got married, so I never saw any of my siblings. That I itself is a trauma. They never make any decent friends either. My mother, despite marrying someone really intelligent and high earning will only hang with people who are less intelligent or less able to see through her behaviour etc.
She has less than two friends she can count on... I mean I have no more either but it that is for a different reason entirely. My reasons are lack of trust, and never seeing the point of making friends in case they abandon or move away. That sadly has come about because of my mother's nomadic escapades.
Actually being scapegoat at the moment I have been very depressed, because I gave up masses of friends in the Uk to be here and stay here. Gave up a mortgaged home and everything i owned, to then be treated like this all the time. It really does play with your head. Just recently turned 50...it was always my dream to have a nice 50th and a bash... no such thing occurred. Instead I found myself trying to forget it was my 50th.
I actually had a counselling session on my 50th birthday... I bloody hated her that day I can tell you. Complete mess. What angers me is she will go through all these ages and stages and get's everything her way and a bag to put it in, but everyone else get's dumped on at times they least need it. They affect you in so many ways... I wish I could pretend they were all dead.. but they're not. Even if they were, I doubt the devastation would never go away.
You go through some good days, and then bad days when your stressed. I have gained a lot of weight with the paralysis these things cause. The total emptiness of just not being able to have at least one family member identify with you on things is pretty hard when your the scapegoat in PD families too.
Lately I have worked on inner self and working on my own self worth... hugging my inner child and giving her the attention she needs or has never had because I know no one else will do it right now and unless I stop blaming myself or revisiting it or telling myself I am a victim I will never get out of victim mode or move forward.
Claire Voyant So being nomadic is normal thing for borderliners? That is so unsettling when they get angry with friends or family and move town not caring bout the kids needs at all.
You are the "black sheep" of the family. I am like that at the moment. The author of this video talks about it in other videos. If it wasn't for him I would have been asking "why?" for the rest of my life.
They pick one person to falsely blame for everything and to cause hatred in the family. But it's not too bad because I am unforgiving of evil people and they can tell I don't want them in my life so they feel the need to fill the vacuum and include me into things. My mom goes behind my back to turn my siblings against me and then she smiles triumphantly at me like I don't know what's going on.
Bipolar AND narcissism together is dangerous mix. The lady I talked about in my previous post has cut ties with the closest family, friends etc. She is running out of people. She is most assuredly a narcissist as well as borderline.
PS: My father is bi polar but he is a lovely guy. His cycles are few and far between. I have my doubts he actually is bi polar. He only had episodes when my mother threatened to leave him or actually did... but these bouts were very deep depression and he would have to be hospitalised. Then when she came back to him obviously he would be fine and upbeat... so I have my doubts now as to the bi polar to be honest. Perhaps it is just that a relationship with a Narc is a little bit bi polar or has your moods that way with the constant idealise, devalue and then discard patterns? Just my two cents worth.
Background on my Dad was he had a smother mother for 11 years and then child 2 arrived and at 11 years old I would say his nose was shoved out... at 16 he met my mother who got regnant with myself within weeks. There was no choice back then...it was get married.
They lasted some years and had 4 kids together in total. But their relationship was up and down and my mother was always talking about other men from memory... one who owned a motorbike and another who had horses and did jumping.
She would talk about them as if she has actually been with them in company of friends and out of ear shot of dad... so heck knows... I do know from my grandmothers perspective that in one break up he never got out of bed for weeks. He was devastated. She played with him like a toy I think between flings I surmise. I was a wee toddler and only have older relatives to go by where thats concerned.
It sounds like there was actually crack in the house that night
@@laidirliveyr dad is not a strong man inside to be victimized by your mom. That's why. He didn't build his inner self.
Your work is so helpful to me, much thanks. I appreciate the awareness and the healing that is taking place.
Love it, THANK YOU for acknowledgling the borderline pain and humanity
I've spent my whole life feeling misunderstood and you just exposed my entire personality in about 20 mins. Labels like borderline personality disorder and CPTSD feel self indulgent when applied to myself, I even feel a distaste in my mouth at the idea of labeling what happened to me as "trauma" because my inner critic calls me a drama queen.
This is such an irrational disorder that I don't think I'm worthy of having it, I've seen people who lie about mental illness and trauma to gain sympathy so I can't stand thinking I might be doing it myself.
I have every trait.
I keep feeling the same pain over and over, I'm so accustomed to misery that I don't bother to dream of the future anymore and I feel like my life is already ruined.
I'm only 21 and I want to get better more than I thought I could possibly want anything. I can't see what's left of me without all the behaviours and thoughts you described, I want to be more than just a personality disorder.
If it weren't for my sister showing me your channel I probably would've just spent the rest of my life feeling the same paralysing hopelessness.
I don't know how to thank you enough :) finding you was a big step towards stopping the pain of the past from consuming my future.
I want to find myself, could you please show me where to look?
I didn't quite understand what you meant by B&W thinking so I looked it up, I find it's easier to think of it as "all or nothing" than black and white because when it comes to issues and opinions outside of myself I place more value in seeing shades of grey.
"All or nothing" is most noticeable when it comes to relationships, my sister is the most important person in my life but when we fight I only see her as evil. When I meet someone and feel compatible with them I feel they are my new best friend/soulmate in my head until they show enough distasteful traits that I switch to despising them and ending all contact.
I think it all comes down to fear of abandonment. It's so rare to feel compatible with someone and we're so used to everyone else leaving that we place an irrationally high value on this new relationship and see everything we have in common amplified.
Once we see that they aren't as kindred a spirit as we originally thought we automatically think we should stop giving any of our heart to them because they'll probably leave too. The more you invest the more you have to lose, the more head over heels you are the more painful the break up.
I hope that made sense. I'm open to any more questions you might have, it helps me understand myself better to answer them.
Oh no, quite the opposite. I have Borderline Personality Disorder.
Don't worry though I've heard Spartan say that's a common mistake.
He's also said (and I agree) that "Emotional Dis-regularity Disorder" more accurately describes the experience of this disorder than BPD.
To be honest my first impression of the term was the same as yours, It really is a common mistake lol
I just realized recently realized I have BPD... Just Understanding it, is helping so far.. I am going through a workbook, that is helping me understand it better.. Please don't be too mad at us.. We don't mean to be like this.... Childhood Trauma Yes !!! Big Time.. Abandonment issues through the roof... PTSD !!! I think you have to really want to fix it for yourself to get better... It's Very Hard Work, and most don't want to face this deep dark pain they feel.... Thanks for speaking on this with understanding, even though, you went through a bad time with one of our kind.... We really want to be normal so bad..
Great presentation, thank you.
the "treating yourself with compassion" is the hardest part. for me at least.
My mother has BPD, and it was so hard to finally get away from her and her issues. she never followed up with her therapy, and she changed therapists like 3 times because they started to tell her things she didn't wanna hear. I wish she'd accept to get help, but she won't. All I can do is keep my distance now and try to help myself get better.
Richard. You're a flat out, bona fide legend mate. Thank you from Down Under for all your insights in this video....and every other :) I reckon i've been looking at your mug and listening to your words for months now and every vid gets me closer to recovery from BPD abuse. I'm a survivor!!! Cheers :)
Thankyou for clearing that up! I have COMPLEX PTSD but I have had to fix myself! Its confusing too, when professionals all tell you something different! I love listening to you Richard, keep up the great work! Also had borderline friend! You got that right too!
I have cptsd and listen to this video a lot. Ive had severe dissociation since childhood. This helps bring me back into reality and also makes me understand why I am so obsessed and in love with the movie the shawshank redemption.
This is good. Complex PTSD. This is so accurate
Your descriptions of CPTSD were brilliant and so helpful
Fascinating discourse..thanks again for generously sharing your insights
I think that your NON RECOGNIZED "Complex PTSD" is right on the money.
***** Thanks Alicia, to be clear though CPTSD is not my concept, it was first described by Judith Herman in her book "Trauma and Recovery" - I agree that, thought not recognised yet, its a very accurate description of what happens to a person as a result of trauma.
Co-morbid BPD,NPD sociopathic traits.We have the same ex. Not really, but all the symptons are the same. Ultimately they become the narcissist(covert) and do a bombardment devaluation discard. You become the father figure and receive all the hate and pent up anger. This is can be due to the loss of a care giver. Can also be the magnified midlife crisis many narcs have. The triggers are difficult to pinpoint. They have a tug of war between fears of abandonment and narc discard and cruelty.Very few talk about sociopathic traits with borderlines which confused any diagnosis for me but now I know. The problem here is that co-morbid BPD's who seek help have a covert narc side that stops them from getting treatment. On the outside the sociopathic trait is highly functional yet dishonest and devious.They are a real mix of several P.D. traits and it's not just abandonment fears it's 10 different people in one. They are not like regular BPDs but the traits are there. They seem to be quite rare.
It takes a long time to untangle from them, about 2 yrs for me.Same story but I'm not divulging everything here. Parentizing, medicating children, violence, self medicating,alcoholism,fraud, she even set a narcopath on me. Stalking, histrionic traits, faked illnesses to get more medication, hypochondria, flying monkeys which I took over for a while to stop the abuse from distanceI never reacted to the push pull game but in the end she got me. So I had to fight back, teach my(our kids) her game play. For my ownsanity I should have just left the country becauseI doubt she will ever quit.i have met other BPD's who are emotional manipulaters in trust and abandonment but never so severewith the sociopathic streak.
I got help from a friend who is a therapist. We helped each otherrehabilitate from covert narc abuse. Without that I am not sure where I would be today.We could identify, research and compare and quite simply offer the compassion that is needed. I suspect many victims don't talk about it because of the excruciating pain, especially when children are involved and the risk it can put them in.When people hear the stories it's disbelief and not surprisingly healthy people keep away. NPDs and BPDs have a pattern but this is chaotic madness. She can reinvent herself at will with a whole new Life and circle of friends after one evening. It's really quite fascinating to observe but never again. The covert wants to make you as crazy, and delusional as they are, these definately succeed. Do you have any literature. I have not found that much which describes this condition, causes effects. I've had to break down all the Components and look at it that way.There is very little from a diagnostic point of view, probably because a concise definition is impossible.Hence few go into it. IT was clear to me that different parts would take over if she felt threatened, insecure, elated, popular,some parts were fairly stable early on. Just to compare there is autism in the family, co dep borderline mother psycopath father), narc uncle, narc grandfather( could have been psycopath too). They are not present in mine or the kids lives thankfully.
I am so sorry that you guys lived through that. I realized that I am suffering from PTSD due to years of living with a BPD/Narcopath. I was crushed by him. He doesn't know it, no one does except me. I left him and I am not ok. It has been 7 months and I feel shell shocked. I don't wish this on my worst enemy. I am high functioning in my work but emotionally crippled. Yoga, meditation, reading...nothing is helping.
I always feel much better after watching one of your videos
Amazing content and truly gifted critical thinking as always!! :) The way I see it, is a Venn diagram. There is a pure narcissist, the narcissistic borderline, and the pure borderline. I think a lot of the sayings like “borderlines make narcissists look like a walk in the park” apply to narcissistic borderlines. Because it is a special breed of hell when that narcissistic person is also incredibly vulnerable, filled with poignant emotions, and capable of deeply attaching and caring. There is such a difference in these types I would argue that there is a Borderline type 1 and type 2.
Most true borderlines are in their room somewhere on a Friday night listening to sad music and writing in their journal... they are generally content to just hurt themselves. Can relationships with them be complicated? Sure. Do they engage in psychological warfare? Not usually on the level that would constitute narcissistic abuse.
Hi I have found you'r videos very helpful and entertaining on subjects which are very serious, thanks.
Another amazing video. I always learn so much and your presentation of this kind of material is peerless. Thank you for providing this.
There are 3 skills to regulate your emotions they are Interpersonal Effectivness, Emotional Regulation and Distress Tolerance all underpinned by mindfulness. Every human should have this from school age it would prevent so much hurt.
Thanks so much Richard!! :) Your videos are so incredibly helpful to me.
Thank you for the video. My Dad definitely has NPD, not BPD, no doubt about it. I definitely have traits of complex PTSD, but now I have the terminology and conscious understanding of it, which is at least a step forward. I've always felt that a way to deal with it is by changing the metaphor, and kind-of 'enjoying' the fact it makes me an individual, as well as having a sense of humour about things. Don't know if that's healthy or not. Once again, really like your realistic approach to psychological problems, which is much more beneficial than the rather shallow, textbook answers you get from 99% of other people.
I have found the most difficult paradox in trying to deal with someone with Borderline Personality Disorder is this: Being truthful with them without being invalidating. Most people with BPD, the second they feel invalidated, the run or rage. Far too often, the truth of the rest of our experience with them is 100% invalidating. Its often a catch 22.
Excellent explanation. Helps me understand "why".
Thank You, this was awesome. I love someone that sounds pretty close to what you are saying here, and it hurts so much to see this person self destruction, I wish there was a way for him to see himself and to get help and live a better life. I got devalued recently so I have not access anymore, just left with post traumatic stress from where I am recovering. So, so true all you say here. I choose to believe that there is hope for him. :)
it's strange how many of us have difficulty believing the damage we were done. I can relate. I couldn't believe anyone could damage me that way, I became very ill, couldn't realize why, so a whole lot of medical testing was done. Eventually doctors and specialist informed me it was stress..well Yesus I had to accept it! Only then was I able to get help for the right reason.
Learning of Marsha Linehan's discovery of DBT has been so helpful to me. I use the word "REFRAIN" when I see my amygdala leap to confront a problem. She works at the University of Washington now and her life story is remarkable; she was her own first patient.
It's nice that instead of condemning the borderline you offer them the solution to resolve their complex PTSD after all the borderline is not looking to hurt anyone they long to heal.
Not always. I've seen BPDs who get older who simply give into the darkness and stop fighting it. They simply conclude 'its just the way I am' after that they are basically psychopaths.
Mental health illnesses are not actually caused by trauma they're caused by chemical imbalances in the brain and genetics trauma is just a trigger which triggers and causes are two completely different things also there is no cure for mental health illnesses only treating the symptoms and managing the illness once you've got it that's it there's no getting rid of it and if people claim to have been cured of a mental health illness the fact is they never really had a mental illness to begin with and they never will have a mental illness
My psychologist is telling me the exact same thing about BPD and C-PTSD being the same but C-PTSD isn't in the dsm. I experienced so much abuse and traumatic events through the years as a kid, adolescent and adult. Thanks again mate I'll follow you as you're down to earth and easy to follow and obviously know what the score is
Wow mate hats off to you, you're still compassionate and respectful even though you've had it hard. I'm a male borderline, I've wreaked havoc in lives and got 2 kids to two borderline girls. I've suffered alot from my own actions and life in general but I'm trying to change now. Thank you for your videos though you've got a new subscriber 🖒
Wow...NAILED THAT description.
Been dealing with someone like this for over 60 yrs. Took almost that long to understand and go no contact. Very painful to go through the episodes this kind of behaviored person does...breakdown-causing, for sure. YES...PTSD/CHILDHOOD TRAUMA! Betting that trauma causes some degree of Dissociative Identity Disorder, which in turn, starts looking like more easily recognized other mental ills, like bipolar, depression, anxiety, borderline, etc....which get treated...but wrongly.
If the root causes/trauma/abuse/neglect during Early Childhood Development aren't addressed/repaired, the person will stay messed-up, It's tough to repair, as that early imprinting is almost indelible.
Thank you , you are very knowledgeable on BPD and PTSD
As usual, a very good video. Thank you.
Thank You very much for the AWESOME information/education you give with these video's, Been watching for a while and this one helped change my understanding about myself that I have been searching for my whole life.I love your analogy of the war veteran vs. the other. Now I have a name for it and maybe if we can get it in the DSM-5 true healing can begin. What your doing is a wonderful service to human kind.
I love the way you describe CPTSD. Very accurate!
I find your vids very helpful......Thank you...
In one of your videos you described people with BPD as being "zombie witch doctors". I never heard a statement that resonated so clearly with me and I would describe my mother who has BPD. I don't believe all people with BPD are malignant abusers but I am starting to see more and more each day that my mother at her core is a deranged, bad person or a zombie witch doctor, and is possessed by an evil force, not unlike a pscychopath. All her kindness in the past were merely fronts to cover up the rottenness of her core self. Thank you for this invaluable description we can use for our malignant abusers with BPD.
Allow my response based on my perspective. First allow me to be clear- BPD will destroy any connection in EVERY relationship- That's part of the illness (duh). From my experiences, this guy has hit the nail exactly on the head. Maybe not all, but many of his points are highly valid. I had a bipoloar manic depressive mother whom I cared for till she died. I learned a lot about diseased minds. Now I have a BPD lady in my life and kick myself in the ass for ever not seeing the signs. She hid her illness for 10 months of dating. I didn't think it was possible or possibly I was not watching carefully.
I am going into survival mode by arranging my life on a need to know basis, keeping everything private that may be used as a weapon against me, constantly telling my young adult children that they are a VERY important part of my life and always will be, changing my passwords and locking my identification in the safe every night. I am wary of leaving my partner in the house when I go to work.
I have changed my Will to warn my executors about what they have to be aware of with a BPD person in the household. I cherish and will honor the underage child who came with the BPD personality.
I learn, (thankful for the internet) , I strengthen the walls, (both emotional and household, and stay totally focused on my needs and those close to me. BDP'ers try to be the victim and always will. Do not play that game with a broken mind.
Leave if you can or become the emotional warrior that is impervious to the mantra of poor me that the BDPer craves. Peace be with those having to deal with these crazy as bat shit personalities. (Hmmm.. crazy as batshit? I'm going to have to look that one up).
And lastly a message to all those who have the disorder- Don't blame those around you- get help, get well or get lost in the wilderness. It just occurred to me - Why am I writing this?- you CAN"T do any of these things. You are BROKEN....