Not taking Anakin out the first day he met him. What a POS Anakin was. Not a SINGLE redeeming quality in him. The only thing he EVER did right was to kill Palpatine to save his Son and even a Snake will protect its young (not Younglings, obviously). He did kill really well in the Clone Wars though.
Yet another content creator retroactively destroying the Black Jedi, whether on purpose or not. I notice a convenient trend today with going back to things from the past as well as the present to try and drag down nonwhite characters, especially the Black ones. You know full well Mace did no harm to Anakin or anyone, he wanted the wars to end and to stop the Sith. You need to make Palpatine leaps in logic to try and frame him as the one at fault. It also makes very little sense to blame Mace yet remove accountability from Yoda or Obi Wan, latter of which forced Anakin to be in the Jedi Order so as to honor Qui Gon, and who oversaw Anakin in the first place. It also makes little sense to replace Palpatine, who really created Vader, as the main one to be blamed. Its been pretty clear that certain people on this site felt offended by a black man telling a white man to take a seat instead of granting him the rank "Massa" more so than "Master", and even disregarding that his rank was the Council's decision, not Mace's. That's where most of this "blame Mace Windu" nonsense trend started from and is continuing to come from Mace and the Jedi Council were right about Anakin, he was too old to take into training and had long formed attachments. They were right about his emotions being dangerous given that he slaughtered an entire village, even the children, even Jedi younglings. It was not any decision that Mace made that caused Anakin to question everything and to do that reprehensible shit, it was Palpatine with his empty promises and Anakin's own fear of losing Padme, and that was why he didn't want Mace to kill Palpatine. It wasn't about some nonsense of Palpatine needing to be tried by some rigged court which Palpatine admitted to controlling. Anakin killed Dooku without trying him in court, and Darth Maul sure as he'll did not require a court to be dealt with. There was no Council "hypocrisy", just dark distortions of the truth by adversaries like Palpatine and scared people like Anakin, who was a grown man at this point. No longer a little boy, so let's not infantilize that character completely and remove the concept of agency from him.
Even if mace didn't exist the result would be the same. Mace nearly ended the war twice when he nearly killed Dooku and sideous. Top to bottom Jedi council and order was broken and the galaxy was broken The fact the Jedi find the chosen one in slavery just shows how bad shape the galaxy was. this still wasn't a wake up call to help the greater galaxy. They were serving the senate instead of the force. Lost touch with morale and empathy In favor for disconnected with greater reality and struggle. If you think about it yoda was basically the emporer. Clone army loads of funds broken galaxy lots of power Qui Gon was there only hope the entire order moved like Mace tbh. Only reason obi won was slightly different was because of Qui Gon
@@sambo416 I don't remember everything, but this is all cope to me. Qui Gon started him at an age to older himself with the pod racing. The Jedi didn't choose to be generals, they were made so by the Senate. They wanted to stop until Palpatine said they were still needed. The Jedi fall from the force was by the Senate.
oh totally not palpatine or anything that was more responsible for that because its not like he ordered dooku into torturing anakin multiple times with electricity or anything that is proven to make personality changes on a clinical level
All the retcons make no sense. Nomi Sunrider was a grown woman with a husband and child when she was recruited. She became a grand master of the order.
@@Spawned-uy8ip Rahm Kohta is in legends where he has that backstory, canon he is just mentioned with no backstory, still fucked up though since he was an adult who would have war related trauma, while Anakin would have a lot less trauma.
Yes, BUUUT Anakin was a baby killer from way back and there is really no defending him. Millions, possibly Billions of people were killed because he chose Palpatine over Everyone else and blindsided Mace Windu. I believe the Force would have been better off if it kept it in it's pants or worn some kind of protection. Or here is one for you, what if Shmi dealt with the pregnancy like a Feminist?
No... Anakin failed them. He didn't have to stay. He could have left to stay with Padme. If he wanted to stay, he had to follow the rules like everyone else. No special privileges.
Lets not forget Palpatine orchestrated the rift between them with his position as Chancellor, telling him one thing and the Jedi another. Giving them orders knowing how they'd react and putting them in situations that just naturally caused a rift between the two while coming out looking clean all the time.
Lets not forget during the Clone Wars when Barris framed Ahsoka Tano, Anakins Padawan of treason. The entire council except Obi-Wan questioned Ahsoka's character except thinking "Wait a minute, this is totally out of character for Ahsoka, Skywalker is right". Even though Obi-Wan knew what Anakin knew, he himself was put into a rock and a hard place in that scenario. Even during the end of the Clone War when Ahsoka told the council about Maul, the only one who treated Ahsoka like absolute shit except everyone else... yup, it was Mace
Mace’s character was designed to represent the cold, warrior-like state of the Jedi, their dogmatic viewpoints and how they’ve become complacent as Republic servants. He represented all the downfalls of the Jedi order during the time of the republic, so it makes sense that he played a big part in Anakin’s downfall.
mace always said that the jedi are. neutral yet it was always mace who dove nose first into politics. and he never followed what he preached. he was cold ,distant and how in TPM ,mace had said "we will find the identity of your attacker" to qui gon in the meeting where qui gon reported the return of the sith and then he did not do anything to help.
I agree, but it wasn't just Mace. Even Obi-Wan struggled to be there for him. I think Mace's cold pragmatic approach to Anakin could have been balanced out if he had actual confidants within the Jedi order, but Obi-Wan always (to me anyway) displays a strange kind of distance to him. He tried to be the best Master he could to Anakin but he just couldn't - after all he was left with Anakin after Qui-Gon's death. Especially during the Attack of the Clones Obi-Wan treats him as a burden. Re-watch Episode II and pay attention to how mean he is to Anakin... Every step of the way Lucas conveys how disastrous Qui-Gon's death was for Anakin's destiny and it wasn't really anyone's fault. They tried to make-do but only Qui-Gon could have stopped it.
@@noahmundinger8057 the only thing I can say about Mace in ep 3 is that it was the WORST time possible to put a test of trust for Anakin , the chosen one .
@@MrCadeRay That's just him being a brother to anakin as he puts it lol. The real wild part is Yoda heard Qui-Gon's ghost yell "no" and sensed Anakin slipping into the darkside when he killed the tusken raiders. And he did nothing
@AnonTDegenerate he says that before they actually bonded so I'm not going to give obiwan the benefit of the doubt in this situation. And ya Yoda never acting on anything is one of his biggest flaws. To be fair though war had just broken out
Ultimately, it was a failure of rigid dogma that left its adherents unable to adapt. In Legends, the whole point of Luke's new Jedi Order was adapting it to this new reality by doing things like allowing its members to marry and form attachments.
There's a reason Jedi weren't allowed to have attachments, just look back to the countless Jedi and sith wars, many Jedi turned to the dark side because of their attachments, they say no more attachments and suddenly there's no sith for a thousand years, Anakin wasn't an exception, he was the norm, loving someone doesn't automatically mean you're gonna turn evil, just look at Obi Wan and Luke, but the chances are high
I think one of the truly big moments was when they let him believe Obi Wan was dead! A man they knew he loved, (one of the few), and ultimately almost killed because of that lie! That was huge in his mistrust not just of them, but Obi wan as well! I think another pivotal moment was when they elevated every padawan who fought in geonosis but him! That was a huge slap in the face! You can say his mistrust in them was warranted in many situations!
To be honest, I was somewhat satisfied when palps threw this guy out the windu. He definitely had something to do with Anakin’s turning to the dark side.
Stupid he gave snaking everything and was going to make him grand master. After all that anakin killed every Jedi and still lost his woman and was disfigured
"Good intentions aren't enough", simply having a desire to do something good is not sufficient; you must also take concrete actions to achieve a positive outcome, as the impact of your actions is what truly matters, not just your intentions.
It is believed among a lot of SW fans that if Qui-Gon survived his fight with Darth Maul and raised Anakin instead of Obi-Wan, things would've turned out a lot different. It looked like Qui-Gon was up for the job of being a father figure for Anakin. I believe Palpatine wasn't quite convincing enough to turn Anakin all by himself. It was both that and the way the Jedi Council treated him that did it. It looked like the Jedi Council tolerated Anakin, but it was Palpatine who believed in him and kept encouraging him. From Anakin's point of view, when Palpatine finally tried to turn him, Anakin didn't really have a choice.
I don't blame the Jedi Order, that has been successfully training Jedi for a thousand generations with only a "lost 20" that leave. I blame the Sith Lord that seduced a young Jedi from childhood to the Darkside. A Sith Lord vs a 9 year old should leave no confusion as to what caused Anakin to fall (A Sith Lord that deceived Yoda and fought him to a standstill). Speaking of Anakin, he is not the only Jedi separated from his former life, although admittedly he was older than most. Control of emotions is part of Jedi training and philosophy that has served us for a long time, and I think Anakin proved he was a capable Jedi for many years. All you have to do is consider Anakin the way he was in his prime with Obi-Wan, and imagine if the influence of Palpatine wasn't there. He may still have that Dark potential, but his training and guidance could have led to him controlling it as I do with Vapaad. People should also consider what would have happened if the Jedi Order never found Anakin. Palpatine could well have trained him more severely from a much younger age and honed him to worst levels of evil (think Darth Maul but with Skywalker midi-chlorians). Studying to be a Jedi is not an easy challenge and it's a hard life. You need willpower and integrity to face the threats Jedi do, or you will crumble. you cannot compare training to the experiences of an average person, because Jedi are above average. The have to be, in order to be.
This is a good analysis of good teachers being bad examples. Though Windu had good experience and intentions with training a great Jedi pupil, he got too full of himself and did not reflect on his own upcomings to reach where he was before his death. Mentors must reflect on themselves routinely to stay grounded.
I'm no longer sure where I got this from, but a long while back, I heard something that unfortunately puts this character in an even worse light. Apparently, all of this wasn't built on suspicion but jealousy. The Jedia's chosen one was someone who had a high aptitude with both sides of the force. Something that Mace Windu was supposedly rather proud of through his Vape pad fighting style. Enough so, that he believed himself to be the chosen one. When he told Aniken to stay behind while he confronted the chancellor, it wasn't out of caution. It was to keep him out of the way, while he fulfilled his supposed destiny as the prophesied hero.
If I was on the Jedi council and they said this child could be the one of prophecy, at the very least I would have been like we will make an exception and have his mother freed from slavery. Yoda sensed he was afraid for his mother. All of their concerns about Anakin stems from his fear for his mother. Talk about letting the ball drop. All this Mace stuff is moot if they freed his mother. That was the thing that lead to the fall of the Jedi. Remember, when Anakin was a kid he said he wants to free all the slaves because he and his mother were slaves.
Mace had too much pride to allow himself to be overshadowed by this chosen one. So, he held Anakin back and functioned to prevent him from finding a way through the light side to save his mother or Padme.
Very wise Mace Windu was but not without flaw, Anakin's failure as a Jedi had multiple factors and Mace was but one of them, one of the biggest perhaps, but still only one part of the puzzle.
Mace to me embodied everything wrong with the old Jedi Order and why it set itself up so perfectly for Palpatine to burn it all down. He was arrogant, rude, condescending, bogged down by politics and old 'traditions', inflexible, and he above all others treated the Chosen One like dirt for no reason.
Anikan spent most of his time with Obiwan. Little cherry picked moments with mace aren’t comparable at all to being totally blind to anikans inner struggles he had the entire time he was mentoring him lol. This is like a parent blaming Eminem for their kid getting into fights at school while they’re actually just not doing a good job teaching that kid how to not get into fights at school. In the glass abyss mace actually helps Anikan with his anger and use it, giving him a basic understanding of how vapaad works. Also in glass abyss, you learn a lot about mace and qui gin’s relationship. Mace is absolutely haunted by ignoring qui gons mention of a Sith Lord, and he doesn’t doubt the prophecy at all.
For the so-called peace keepers and wise spiritual guides of the galaxy, they sure can't grasp psychology and empathy well. Even from the beginning Qui-Gon get down on Anakin's level to talk, while the Council look down on the actual former child slave and tell him he doesn't belong here. Like god damn, we supposed to trust these guys as they take children from their family?
This is another reason why I hate Mace windu as a character and Samuel Jackson did a really good job portraying him because he can easily portray characters that are Royal pieces of shit that are so high and mighty and think they're right until the very second they die.
Mace straight up helped create two of the most infamous figures in SW, being BOTH Darth Vader and Boba Fett. He was everything that was wrong with the Jedi. Stubborn, cold, detached, and emotionless. I really hated Mace and didn’t bat an eye when Palpy threw him out the Windu.
While not the one mainly responsible, Mace's actions did not help. He missed a huge opportunity to be a mentor to Anakin when he refused to teach him Vaapad.
Ironically, I feel like I'm a lot like Mace Windu as I find it a chore trying to avoid walking on eggshells with people. I don't know what's so hard about looking at things objectively. Sure, I have my limits even doing so, but come on. Anakin was never able to see past his own feelings and it's his own fault that he chose to never open up to Obi-Wan or Ahsoka who would have supported and maybe even bent the rules for him. Mace Windu himself developed an unorthodox fighting style, so he was really only rigid towards Anakin and perhaps Ahsoka because they went out of their way to disregard the rules and orders on a regular basis if you really think about it. Nobody's situation is perfect, so that doesn't excuse what Anakin did from an objective and moral standpoint.
yep, this is the man who literally learned how to control his dark side, but refused to help the chosen one do the same and was a constant hypocrite every step of the way
@JohnQC-n3i well, if they at all taking proper action and actually taught him how to control his darkness before, and akin wanted only power that wouldn't have been the case
@@ZorusSerif well like a lot of people have stated before Mace Windu said wait at the Jedi temple because he was going to make him Jedi Master after arresting Darth sidious. We all know how that ended up with anakin killing all the young jedis in training
@JohnQC-n3i because the dark side took him over & corrupted him & macd wasn't going to arrest him he was going to kill him as he said himself "he's too dangerous to be left alive"
Definitely not all Mace, it was the jedi code and the councils interpretation of it. Mace was at the center of it. Every time you hear an enemy of the jedi talk about them, feels like they're right most of the time. Literal translation is a recipe for disaster in any religion. The jedi, especially the council, took everything so literally, they basically thought they were superior while being blinded by the truth. The tragedy is how many had to die just by association. How many jedi disagreed with the council, died defending it.
The only people that'd blame Anakin and deflect other peoples' mistreatment are those who'd actively mistreat and think they're above everyone else, so it's 'okay'. Typical victim blaming and shaming.
the biggest problem is the Jedi pushed emotionless to an extreme which living beings cannot truly lie, the opposite being proven bad too in the Sith. as KOTOR Jolee Bindo stated emotion should not be treated in the same vein as passion which is bad. saying it should be tempered not shunned. that the Jedi should teach proper control instead of suppression mentioning love as one of the qualifiers that could only add strength to Jedi instead of beliving it would corrupt
@@Skölly-b6h well Yoda proves it by telling Anakin not to mourn the people he loses, they take apprentices in very young so they can prevent pesky things like emotions from properly forming dismissing fears need I go on?
@ that’s not being emotionless that’s literally telling him to prepare to eventually lose people because death is out of our hands and we have to accept death is a natural part of life
@@Skölly-b6h you read it that way because you don't see how harmful bottling up and denying emotions is, Jedi have brcome way too dogmatic in their code wielding it like an all knowing guide to life
@ they do not teach you to bottle your emotions they teach you to control your emotions to make sure they don’t make you do rash decisions. What the hell are you talking about?
i think it was jedi modern society, the "system" who consider emotions must be supressed are wrong. and the reason why full potential can be obtained only through fueling your emotions and attachments. to let emotions make you stronger but not make them rule you
Nah they right, if you use emotions as fuel depending on the situation but to not let said fuel control your course is a wise and true statement. If thats what they meant.
@@connerjones568 yes, it's all about listen your heart. also check it counciously, as -- "The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate. Who can know it?"
Had Anakin progressed unhindered in his path through the light side of the force he could have saved his mother and Padme's death could have been prevented.
You forget Mace uses Vapid which usually involves tapping into the darkside on without surrendering to it. Mace of all the Jedi probably saw his affinity towards it. Thus, believing that he he thought it was best. To instill in him his understanding of he kept himself from surrendering to it. I’m pretty sure Jedi’s had a spy network. Due to surveillance being crucial in gaining control over situations that would otherwise be unpredictable. That wasn’t the moral failing in the Jedi. It was Maces being there to arrest the Palpatine. You forget Palpatine had Anikan kill an unarmed defeated man prior to this. Not to mention the Tuscan raiders before that. The probably was when Mace defeated the Palpatine he was actively connected to the darkside in the conflict and couldn’t see the difference between the two. If Yoda had been there we would’ve probably had a different outcome. The real problem with Mace is that he was an example that the darkside could be tapped into for noble reasons.
I do agree that Mace had a lot to do with Anakins fall, and all because he never took the time to look within at his actions towards Anakin as anything other than "the bright thing", which shows a lack of self reflection, which the Jedi are big on. Even Yoda is guilty of this, having used his yardstick to try and keep Anakin in his supposed place. A lot of it also falls to Obi Wan and his resentments towards Anakin early on (during and after Phantom Menace) didn't help anything. Even the jabs they threw at each other could have ripped deeper than intended. At the end of the day, rigid tradition and blind faith in it led to Anakin falling, rather than any one person being directly responsible. If Qui Gon had survived, things would probably have played out differently, as Anakin would have had that emotional outlet in the Master that defied the rules to make things better.
Oh look it’s another “let’s throw Mace Windu under the bus” video to appease the Gen Z audience who lacks any sort of accountability. The only person responsible for creating Darth Vader was Darth Vader.
I think it's not that simple. Yes, Windu is one of the culprits, but so is the whole Jedi order. Namely, the members of the council, as individuals, failed him. Yoda himself was one of the biggest culprits. And frankly, that's what you argued for in this video. Almost nothing to single Windu out as the culprit.
They questioned his age because all of them took decades to make it to master Jedi. If anakin had stayed in the Jedi temple like Master Windu said he would have made him Master Jedi.
Anakin was accountable for his own actions. And the Jedi Order was accountable for Anakin. Since they chose to take him in and raise him. They also made him a fighting machine and wanted him to be / become the "chosen one". They urged him to carry all the responsibilities yet always treated him with overwhelming distrust. Blaming Anakin for everything is like building a bomb and crying over the explosion afterwards.
@@multivitaminsaft1997Anakin didn’t give much reason to be trusted since he didn’t act like a Jedi. He didn’t bring in Dooku alive when he was defenseless, nor did he ever consider his actions would hurt others if it meant protecting his loved ones like Padme and Shmi. He was quick to lash out at others like the time he was interrogating with Ashoka by his side. Yes the Jedi Council should have been more understanding however they would have been willing to help him if he ever actually explained his issues instead of thinking he could do it himself or worrying about the consequences of his own actions. He married Padme and killed Tuskans in anger; you can’t give yourself justify that as he is solely to blame for such things. His love blinded him which ultimately proved the Jedi right and that he should have been either taught to suppress his attachments or left to leave and see the galaxy away from the eyes of the Sith and Jedi.
@christophercardoza2872 You mean, they would have helped him, if he told them about his love for Padme or his worry for Shmi? I don´t think so. When Anakin finally opened up to Yoda and told him about his visions of "pain, suffering, death", he didn´t jump on his feet and started a mission to free the slaves on Tatooine, or the prisoners of the Tuskans. He just told him to "let go of everything you fear to lose". Might as well let go of the Jedi code. Or of the younglings, while we´re on it. The Jedi started much more dangerous missions just to get the upper hand in a military conflict. Not to serve the Force. Even though Dooku tried to talk to them many times, they never really listened and attacked him instead. Anakin acted exactly like all the other Jedi did. He acted the same way he saw them acting all the time. He didn´t listen to Dooku. He killed him, like Windu killed Jango and tried to kill Palpatine. He didn´t fight for balance in the Force, but for his own interests instead. Just like the Jedi abandoned their principles and became generals in a war (and thus ultimatly mere pawns in Palpatines evil plan), he also used brute violence trying to achieve his own goals.
@christophercardoza2872 You mean, they would have helped him, if he told them about his love for Padme or his worry for Shmi? I don´t think so. When Anakin finally opened up to Yoda and told him about his visions of "pain, suffering, death", he didn´t jump on his feet and started a mission to free the slaves on Tatooine, or the prisoners of the Tuskans. He just told him to "let go of everything you fear to lose". Might as well let go of the Jedi code. Or of the younglings, while we´re on it. The Jedi started much more dangerous missions just to get the upper hand in a military conflict. Not to serve the Force. Even though Dooku tried to talk to them many times, they never really listened and attacked him instead. Anakin acted exactly like all the other Jedi did. He acted the same way he saw them acting all the time. He didn´t listen to Dooku. He treated him like Windu treated Jango and Palpatine. He didn´t fight for balance in the Force, but for his own interests instead. Just like the Jedi abandoned their principles and became generals in a war (and thus ultimatly mere pawns in Palpatines plan), he also used violence trying to achieve his own goals.
@christophercardoza2872 You mean, they would have helped him, if he told them about his love for Padme or his worry for Shmi? I don´t think so. When Anakin finally opened up to Yoda and told him about his visions of "pain, suffering, death", he didn´t jump on his feet and started a mission to free the slaves on Tatooine, or the prisoners of the Tuskans. He just told him to "let go of everything you fear to lose". Might as well let go of the Jedi code. Or of the younglings, while we´re on it. The Jedi started much more dangerous missions just to get the upper hand in a military conflict. Not to serve the Force. Even though Dooku tried to talk to them many times, they never really listened and attacked him instead.
You had me up until Jar Jar. I am, and always shall be, a Jar Jar fan. But yeah, nice to hear that even if Mace was hard on Anakin, he wasn't malicious about it. Considering Anakin was breaking tradition just by being admitted and posed a great threat, I find it hard to fault Mace for thinking scrutiny was warranted, even if it ultimately ruined everything.
Anakin was naive and a manipulative Palpatine preying on his weakness should have been more obvious to someone as "streetwise" as the poor child from Tattoine should have been.The Jedi (knowing no sith) knew that Anakin was to bring balance to the force and were blind to the fact that balance meant good and bad. How dumb is it that considering all theses "masters" being at one with the force, they were so obviously mistaken. This wasn't even a topic of debate! Bad writing....
Of course it was mace windu's fault he never gave anakin a chance and hated anakin from the start. He looked down on anakin the whole time treated him a lesser just because he become a jedi the traditional way. Mace was the one objected to anakin becoming a jedi never trusted him and didn't believe anakin was the chosen one.
Anakin was doomed from the start, because the original trilogy made it so. We all knew Anakin would turn to the dark side. There wasn't any point for the writers to make this outcome a surprise or a twist. The real question to the drama was to see how Anakin was supposed to be such a great hero to have fallen. I think "The Chosen One" prophecy probably did the most disservice to the Character and the Story. It could had been a story about a likable underdog who was faced with no win conditions, where to achieve his goals he kept taking steps that lead him to the Dark side, where Anakin was trying to do the right thing for selfless reasons. However be special to all the characters, basically put all the conflict to be focused on Anakin not living up to expectations that were basically promised to him. Making him a spoiled brat across the prequels, making him unlikable. Where the fall to Darth Vader was supposed to be a tragedy, because a release because now he can be cool.
Great video, but I have to slightly disagree. Mace Windu wasn't the reason he turned. By your description it is all because of the Jedi Order. Their rules were difficult, the criticism and Anakin constantly being scrutinized by the Jedi Order and when he saw Mace Windu go against everything they and he knew was wrong. He responded and changed. I think we can all agree that Mace was doing what he knew best, he was there to arrest Palpatine and he was ready to act in any manner to save the galaxy. Anakin came in later on and it gave Palpatine a way to manipulate Anakin and the galaxy. The Jedi Order was the problem, not Mace Windu.
That´s right! And when Anakin finally opened up to him, all he had to say to him was this "let go" shit. That wasn´t exactly jedi wisdom right? Why would he let go of a living person in danger?
Anakin could count the number of people that genuinely trusted him on one hand. And with the other hand he could count all the people HE genuinely trusted. And unfortunately for everyone Palpatine worked his way into both counts
Yoda's concern was the clouded(potentially dark) future of Anakin. Mace was full of self-pride and abhorred the idea of allowing this young, prophesied boy to take the limelight.
Nope. It’s on Yoda. Mace saw the potential dark side in Anakin and was skeptical and adversarial at times. Which was his role. Yoda, on the other was the grandmaster and did not see the situation without the lens of his dogma, constantly pushing him to devoid his emotions instead of listening to him. This video is good but I’m personally tired of Yoda getting a pass cause he cute and green. He was a terrible grandmaster. Yoda created Darth Vader more than anyone else
The Jedi made plenty of mistakes, but Anakin is responsible for his own downfall. He had so many red flags upon meeting him which I’m not blaming him for, but he is to blame for not getting his crap together for the 10+ years that he was in the order. He wanted to be a Jedi ,but couldn’t handle the responsibility that came with being one nor could he properly follow the code that he agreed to follow. He constantly broke the rules and displayed behavior that’s unfitting for a Jedi and yet he wonder why the council was weary of him. The Jedi had every reason to expelled him but they didn’t , and look where that got them. If you really wanna blame a Jedi then blame Qui Gon for forcing Anakin onto obi wan and for forcing the council to accept a boy who never should’ve been trained.
"Behavior unfitting for a Jedi", oh boy, how do I tell you that all Jedi have fallen into that regard? Also he didn't "agree" per say, it was just the best option for him. It was either that or continue living under slavery. Also no wonder he doesn't follow rules of people who don't even respect him.
@@clipsdelosmajes there's a difference between being unorthodox like Obi Wan could be at times, and outright horrible like Anakin casually committing war crimes and killing unarmed prisoners, huge difference
@@ZomboidMania, to give an example, letting his emotions out and killing the tuskens out of rage. "And not just the men. The women and children too." (Quote might be off.)
😂 I wholeheartedly disagree with you, respectfully, he wasn’t raised in a proper manner, and not being supported by the rest of the order, he knew from right from wrong. But what this dude is narrating is very much on point, I think you need to re-listen again.
@ I’m not saying that Anakin was the only Jedi Padawan or Knight that displayed that sorta behavior at times, but other Jedi had no problem with admitting to their mistakes and learning from them without lashing out or throwing blame around. When Anakin makes those mistakes, he throws blame around, gets angry or frustrated, lashes out at Obi Wan because Anakin doesn’t see what he did wrong and he believes that he’s being held back by the people that only wants the best for him. Also he did agree, he was going to leave the order but changed his mind after going on a mission with obi wan. Lastly, not once did we ever see that the Jedi had no respect for Anakin. What we did see is that the Jedi weren’t going to hold his hand and kiss his ego like Palpatine.
Mace actually was right the entire time he didn’t trust Anakin and was also in touch with Sith power. He said “ I feel a great confusion in you young sky Walker.”
Mace didn't lead the Jedi order, guy. That was Yoda. Did Mace play a SMALL part in Anakin becoming Vader? yes, certainly. But there is more to it. 1. Obi-Wan wasn't fit to teach Anakin. He treated him like a brother when he should have been guiding him. How did Obi-wan not know his Padawan was shagging a senator? How did Obi wan manage to miss all the telltale signs of Anakin slipping to the Darkside. Why did Obi-wan not question Palpatine's interest in Anakin? The list goes on. 2. Qui-Gon was another factor. Did he truly buy that BS about the Force "just creating" a child? The council forbid Anakin's admittance into the order and for good reason. But Qui-gon just ignored it because he knew better. Too bad he never thought to make certain Obi-wan went back for Anakin's mom. 3. Yoda. He never questioned Palpatine's interest in Anakin. But you know who did? Mace did. Yoda overruled any jedi that tried to find evidence of Sith still being at play. Yoda KNEW the Clones would turn on the order and did NOTHING about it. The grandmaster of the order let a Sith in right under his nose. He never questioned who made the Clones or what true purpose they might have served. He'd denied Anakin entry because he knew the kid had issues. But then let him stay due to a guilty conscience. There are more actors, but this is too long already.
i agree that anakan should not have been made a master he was to immature to arrogant and ambitious its won of the few things the jedy did that i agree with
I've heard this dumb argument a million times. Mace Windu ( with Yoda who was in complete agreement with EVERYTHING MACE DID AND IS NEVER BROUGHT UP ) was in charge of protecting the ENTIRE GALAXY. Then the Clone Wars began which he had to lead WITH YODA. Mace went back and fourth from Episodes one through three whether Anakin was the chosen one and whether he could be trusted or not. Mace ultimately was correct Anakin couldn't be trusted. Yoda said he was too old. I think you're scapegoating Mace because he's a black character.
The Republic era was ending, the Jedi couldn't do anything more for Anakin or the Republic! Anakin was the chosen one, he must get over his mother, his fiance and do the right thing for peace!! But nope, he chose to ki ll everybody in cold blo od!
Love this channel glad I stumbled across it ✅ I’ve said the Jedi was evil from day one because if you put yourself in Anakin’s shoes for example you will understand that his failure of being a “Great Jedi” was not on him alone. I blame the Jedi council , Obi-Wan , Yoda & Mace Windu for how Anakin turned out. #GoodChannel 🔥🔥🔥
Saying Mace "made" Darth Vader is just clickbait, possibly racially motivated. If you ask yourself when exactly Anakin started transitioning into Darth Vader, Mace didn't raise Anakin, Mace didn't make Anakin ignore select parts of his Jedi training, Mace had nothing to do with Anakin killing civilian Sand People on Tatooine, Mace didn't make Anakin keep secrets, Mace certainly didn't tell Anakin to go kill kids in the Jedi Temple or kill his wife (Mace being dead at the time). Anakin was responsible for his own decisions. Even if you make the argument that a kid isn't responsible for their decisions, or that the brain doesn't fully develop until later in life, at some point kids become adults, making adult decisions with adult consequences. Anakin went way in over his head, it wasn't just one "oopsie" or even a bunch of them, just way way out there. "He was told he was too old, etc." - well, we see how that turned out, in the end Anakin WAS too attached. It wasn't simply a matter of age, the reason older Jedi candidates often weren't accepted was precisely because older children had often not only formed attachments but gotten used to forming attachments. It's not that Anakin was judged on some nonsensical policy either; Anakin actually came before the Jedi Council, who could read his emotions in the Force to make an informed and accurate decision. You could argue judging after the fact because Anakin turned out to do bad things is no good, that Anakin should have been given a chance. But Anakin was given a chance. Stating (correctly) that pre-judging negatively affects outcomes in no way negates the fact that Anakin went way overboard, by a lot. "He was denied the position of Master" - simply, no. It is not that Anakin was "denied" anything, he simply hadn't earned it. In fact, Anakin treating the situation as if he had somehow "earned" ascension to Master was a sign of his immaturity and attachments. Casting the situation negatively was Palpatine's pressure, Palpatine's twisting and forcing the situation, and the video maker buying into that whole argument is plainly silly. "Wars do not make one great" - Yoda or some such. So Anakin was a big war hero, big whoop, Look to the "history" in Star Wars, there was a whole recurrent thing where Jedi would be war heroes, get attached, turn to the dark side, end up instigating wars that killed loads of people. Even without "historical" precedent, Jedi glorifying the whole war action would have been entirely against what the Jedi were all about in the first place. If you want to say Anakin wanted to ascend to Master to gain access to records so he could try to avoid the future he saw in his Force visions, that's still no excuse. Anakin refused to share any of that with the Jedi Council. Again, what were the Jedi really about? Doing things for personal reasons directly arising from personal attachments, keeping secrets, and so on, was all Anakin. "When telling the Jedi that Palpatine was Sith" or to that effect - Anakin still hadn't confessed to killing the Sand People to the Jedi, but even without that clearly Anakin was in over his head with loads of things that he shouldn't have been doing, playing political games with the Chancellor, and so forth. Mace knew that, it had been an ongoing matter of concern that the entire Jedi Council had discussed. Anakin suddenly popping up and making loads of confessions only confirmed what had already been suspected. On the spot, having to make a decision, should Mace have ignored the potential threat of an unknown Sith Master that he knew had been influencing Anakin for years, and allowed Anakin to come along with everyone else? No, clearly not. Even when parting, Anakin was still trying to influence outcomes, clearly Anakin could not achieve emotional separation from the situation. Anakin was clearly compromised, and Mace read and responded to the situation correctly. In the end, arguing Anakin was under pressure, claiming an adult Anakin was in no way responsible for his own extermist actions repeatedly over decades of time, is going way too far. On the other hand, claiming Mace was solely to blame for things he only peripherally influenced as one voice (though influential) in a larger group, or correctly assessing time and again situations, and acting correctly, is just nonsense. Mace did nothing wrong; even Mace's failure to identify Anakin and Palpatine in their particular roles cannot be characterized as anything other than Mace simply not overcoming the machinations of Palpatine.
There probably doesn't need to be anything added (really nice, btw), but I just want to emphasize that his attatchments were what birthed Vader. Therefore, even if he did save Padmé, it would've just been something else. Maybe Luke gets deathly ill. Maybe Leia gets kidnapped. Maybe Padmé gets old. He had been walking the line of light and dark for longer than just RotS, and it was only a matter of time before he slipped.
Anakin was a damaged individual from day one. He was not even fully Human. In another time he would have become a School Shooter with, or without, Palpatine. Do not forget that he burned Younglings to death (including new Infants) at the Tuskin Raiders Camp.
Comment below what acts Mace Windu made that were dumb
Not taking Anakin out the first day he met him. What a POS Anakin was. Not a SINGLE redeeming quality in him. The only thing he EVER did right was to kill Palpatine to save his Son and even a Snake will protect its young (not Younglings, obviously). He did kill really well in the Clone Wars though.
Yet another content creator retroactively destroying the Black Jedi, whether on purpose or not. I notice a convenient trend today with going back to things from the past as well as the present to try and drag down nonwhite characters, especially the Black ones. You know full well Mace did no harm to Anakin or anyone, he wanted the wars to end and to stop the Sith.
You need to make Palpatine leaps in logic to try and frame him as the one at fault. It also makes very little sense to blame Mace yet remove accountability from Yoda or Obi Wan, latter of which forced Anakin to be in the Jedi Order so as to honor Qui Gon, and who oversaw Anakin in the first place. It also makes little sense to replace Palpatine, who really created Vader, as the main one to be blamed.
Its been pretty clear that certain people on this site felt offended by a black man telling a white man to take a seat instead of granting him the rank "Massa" more so than "Master", and even disregarding that his rank was the Council's decision, not Mace's. That's where most of this "blame Mace Windu" nonsense trend started from and is continuing to come from
Mace and the Jedi Council were right about Anakin, he was too old to take into training and had long formed attachments.
They were right about his emotions being dangerous given that he slaughtered an entire village, even the children, even Jedi younglings.
It was not any decision that Mace made that caused Anakin to question everything and to do that reprehensible shit, it was Palpatine with his empty promises and Anakin's own fear of losing Padme, and that was why he didn't want Mace to kill Palpatine. It wasn't about some nonsense of Palpatine needing to be tried by some rigged court which Palpatine admitted to controlling.
Anakin killed Dooku without trying him in court, and Darth Maul sure as he'll did not require a court to be dealt with.
There was no Council "hypocrisy", just dark distortions of the truth by adversaries like Palpatine and scared people like Anakin, who was a grown man at this point. No longer a little boy, so let's not infantilize that character completely and remove the concept of agency from him.
You didn't talk about him much to be honest.
While Mace was a good man he ultimately mistreated a 9 year old into a monster despite not knowing it.
Even if mace didn't exist the result would be the same. Mace nearly ended the war twice when he nearly killed Dooku and sideous.
Top to bottom Jedi council and order was broken and the galaxy was broken
The fact the Jedi find the chosen one in slavery just shows how bad shape the galaxy was.
this still wasn't a wake up call to help the greater galaxy. They were serving the senate instead of the force. Lost touch with morale and empathy In favor for disconnected with greater reality and struggle.
If you think about it yoda was basically the emporer. Clone army loads of funds broken galaxy lots of power
Qui Gon was there only hope the entire order moved like Mace tbh.
Only reason obi won was slightly different was because of Qui Gon
@@sambo416
I don't remember everything, but this is all cope to me. Qui Gon started him at an age to older himself with the pod racing. The Jedi didn't choose to be generals, they were made so by the Senate. They wanted to stop until Palpatine said they were still needed. The Jedi fall from the force was by the Senate.
He also did the same with Boba Fett, did nothing to console the kid about brutally unaliving his dad in front of him
@@furyberserk the second qui gon Jin died all hope was lost for Anakin.
It has little to do with mace. Mace window was the default Jedi morality wise
oh totally not palpatine or anything that was more responsible for that because its not like he ordered dooku into torturing anakin multiple times with electricity or anything that is proven to make personality changes on a clinical level
Anakin Skywalker? "He cant join us. He's too old."
Rahm Kohta? Joined the Jedi at 18 after Mace discovered him.
I just looked him up, and holy shit, Mace just took a massive dip in respect from me for that.
All the retcons make no sense. Nomi Sunrider was a grown woman with a husband and child when she was recruited. She became a grand master of the order.
The hell????
@@Spawned-uy8ip Rahm Kohta is in legends where he has that backstory, canon he is just mentioned with no backstory, still fucked up though since he was an adult who would have war related trauma, while Anakin would have a lot less trauma.
@@bakabunny788
That's not valid. It's actually character assassination.
I think the loss of the almost uniquely empathic and balanced Qui-Gon really sealed the fate of the emotionally stunted Jedi order.
Anakin was definitely responsible for his actions... BUUUT the order, namely the council, failed the fuck outta him.
Yes, BUUUT Anakin was a baby killer from way back and there is really no defending him. Millions, possibly Billions of people were killed because he chose Palpatine over Everyone else and blindsided Mace Windu. I believe the Force would have been better off if it kept it in it's pants or worn some kind of protection. Or here is one for you, what if Shmi dealt with the pregnancy like a Feminist?
@@CharlesLaBuhnsomeone got butt hurt
@@German_cookies Dont you mean BUUUT Hurt? If you like Anakin Skywalker, you MIGHT be a Demoncrat.
@@CharlesLaBuhn I’m flabbergasted that you assumed my political affiliation by a simple comment.
No... Anakin failed them.
He didn't have to stay. He could have left to stay with Padme.
If he wanted to stay, he had to follow the rules like everyone else. No special privileges.
Lets not forget Palpatine orchestrated the rift between them with his position as Chancellor, telling him one thing and the Jedi another. Giving them orders knowing how they'd react and putting them in situations that just naturally caused a rift between the two while coming out looking clean all the time.
Mace was on one for sure. Saber might have been purple but green was Windu's color with that envy
Lets not forget during the Clone Wars when Barris framed Ahsoka Tano, Anakins Padawan of treason. The entire council except Obi-Wan questioned Ahsoka's character except thinking "Wait a minute, this is totally out of character for Ahsoka, Skywalker is right". Even though Obi-Wan knew what Anakin knew, he himself was put into a rock and a hard place in that scenario. Even during the end of the Clone War when Ahsoka told the council about Maul, the only one who treated Ahsoka like absolute shit except everyone else... yup, it was Mace
Plo Koon….
Mace’s character was designed to represent the cold, warrior-like state of the Jedi, their dogmatic viewpoints and how they’ve become complacent as Republic servants. He represented all the downfalls of the Jedi order during the time of the republic, so it makes sense that he played a big part in Anakin’s downfall.
Best fashion sense?!?! He's dressed like everyone else.
and god damn does he rock those robes
"Yeah, but I make this look good".
mace always said that the jedi are. neutral yet it was always mace who dove nose first into politics. and he never followed what he preached. he was cold ,distant and how in TPM ,mace had said "we will find the identity of your attacker" to qui gon in the meeting where qui gon reported the return of the sith and then he did not do anything to help.
Let’s not forget in a deleted scene Mace actually spoke in favor of Anikan where Obiwan did not
I agree, but it wasn't just Mace. Even Obi-Wan struggled to be there for him. I think Mace's cold pragmatic approach to Anakin could have been balanced out if he had actual confidants within the Jedi order, but Obi-Wan always (to me anyway) displays a strange kind of distance to him. He tried to be the best Master he could to Anakin but he just couldn't - after all he was left with Anakin after Qui-Gon's death. Especially during the Attack of the Clones Obi-Wan treats him as a burden. Re-watch Episode II and pay attention to how mean he is to Anakin... Every step of the way Lucas conveys how disastrous Qui-Gon's death was for Anakin's destiny and it wasn't really anyone's fault. They tried to make-do but only Qui-Gon could have stopped it.
I mean just look at episode 1.
Obi-wan straight up calls him a "useless lifeform"
Exactly. Mace Windu cared for Anakin, especially in that deleted scene in episode two, even if he never trusted Anakin.
@@noahmundinger8057 the only thing I can say about Mace in ep 3 is that it was the WORST time possible to put a test of trust for Anakin , the chosen one .
@@MrCadeRay That's just him being a brother to anakin as he puts it lol.
The real wild part is Yoda heard Qui-Gon's ghost yell "no" and sensed Anakin slipping into the darkside when he killed the tusken raiders. And he did nothing
@AnonTDegenerate he says that before they actually bonded so I'm not going to give obiwan the benefit of the doubt in this situation.
And ya Yoda never acting on anything is one of his biggest flaws. To be fair though war had just broken out
Ultimately, it was a failure of rigid dogma that left its adherents unable to adapt. In Legends, the whole point of Luke's new Jedi Order was adapting it to this new reality by doing things like allowing its members to marry and form attachments.
There's a reason Jedi weren't allowed to have attachments, just look back to the countless Jedi and sith wars, many Jedi turned to the dark side because of their attachments, they say no more attachments and suddenly there's no sith for a thousand years, Anakin wasn't an exception, he was the norm, loving someone doesn't automatically mean you're gonna turn evil, just look at Obi Wan and Luke, but the chances are high
@@ZomboidMania Balance is needed. That angle would have been perfect for the sequels if disney wasn't so obsessed with girlbossing.
@@ZomboidMania Only a sociopath has no atachments to anything.
I think one of the truly big moments was when they let him believe Obi Wan was dead! A man they knew he loved, (one of the few), and ultimately almost killed because of that lie! That was huge in his mistrust not just of them, but Obi wan as well! I think another pivotal moment was when they elevated every padawan who fought in geonosis but him! That was a huge slap in the face! You can say his mistrust in them was warranted in many situations!
To be honest, I was somewhat satisfied when palps threw this guy out the windu. He definitely had something to do with Anakin’s turning to the dark side.
He DEFINITELY thought of that moment where mace "apologized" to ahsoka aka "this was actually your great trial"
@@LegendaryCaptain Omg! You´re right! 😮
Did you say out the WINDU?!?! You’re the GOAT🤣💀🤣💀🤣💀
Stupid he gave snaking everything and was going to make him grand master. After all that anakin killed every Jedi and still lost his woman and was disfigured
@@meetdavidothespyit’s fiction goofy
"Good intentions aren't enough", simply having a desire to do something good is not sufficient; you must also take concrete actions to achieve a positive outcome, as the impact of your actions is what truly matters, not just your intentions.
That is consequential morality, the ends justify the means.
Something a lot of people hate because…
Morality
Anakin became Darth Vader when his mom died and everything after that was burying him deeper into the armor
It is believed among a lot of SW fans that if Qui-Gon survived his fight with Darth Maul and raised Anakin instead of Obi-Wan, things would've turned out a lot different. It looked like Qui-Gon was up for the job of being a father figure for Anakin.
I believe Palpatine wasn't quite convincing enough to turn Anakin all by himself. It was both that and the way the Jedi Council treated him that did it. It looked like the Jedi Council tolerated Anakin, but it was Palpatine who believed in him and kept encouraging him. From Anakin's point of view, when Palpatine finally tried to turn him, Anakin didn't really have a choice.
I don't blame the Jedi Order, that has been successfully training Jedi for a thousand generations with only a "lost 20" that leave. I blame the Sith Lord that seduced a young Jedi from childhood to the Darkside. A Sith Lord vs a 9 year old should leave no confusion as to what caused Anakin to fall (A Sith Lord that deceived Yoda and fought him to a standstill). Speaking of Anakin, he is not the only Jedi separated from his former life, although admittedly he was older than most. Control of emotions is part of Jedi training and philosophy that has served us for a long time, and I think Anakin proved he was a capable Jedi for many years. All you have to do is consider Anakin the way he was in his prime with Obi-Wan, and imagine if the influence of Palpatine wasn't there. He may still have that Dark potential, but his training and guidance could have led to him controlling it as I do with Vapaad. People should also consider what would have happened if the Jedi Order never found Anakin. Palpatine could well have trained him more severely from a much younger age and honed him to worst levels of evil (think Darth Maul but with Skywalker midi-chlorians).
Studying to be a Jedi is not an easy challenge and it's a hard life. You need willpower and integrity to face the threats Jedi do, or you will crumble. you cannot compare training to the experiences of an average person, because Jedi are above average. The have to be, in order to be.
Mace could have showed Anakin how to control his passionate emotions more and Yoda could have trained him in place of Kenobi.
This is a good analysis of good teachers being bad examples.
Though Windu had good experience and intentions with training a great Jedi pupil, he got too full of himself and did not reflect on his own upcomings to reach where he was before his death. Mentors must reflect on themselves routinely to stay grounded.
So I just clapped 600 times, reading the title of this video. Villains are made, not born.
Palps was born evil! It is rare however it does happen sometimes.
@@hackman669just because someone is born evil, it doesn't necessarily make them a villain
I'm no longer sure where I got this from, but a long while back, I heard something that unfortunately puts this character in an even worse light. Apparently, all of this wasn't built on suspicion but jealousy. The Jedia's chosen one was someone who had a high aptitude with both sides of the force. Something that Mace Windu was supposedly rather proud of through his Vape pad fighting style. Enough so, that he believed himself to be the chosen one. When he told Aniken to stay behind while he confronted the chancellor, it wasn't out of caution. It was to keep him out of the way, while he fulfilled his supposed destiny as the prophesied hero.
If I was on the Jedi council and they said this child could be the one of prophecy, at the very least I would have been like we will make an exception and have his mother freed from slavery. Yoda sensed he was afraid for his mother. All of their concerns about Anakin stems from his fear for his mother. Talk about letting the ball drop. All this Mace stuff is moot if they freed his mother. That was the thing that lead to the fall of the Jedi. Remember, when Anakin was a kid he said he wants to free all the slaves because he and his mother were slaves.
If Qui Gon survived and trained Anakin, we might have had both him and Dooku staying away from the darkside.
Mace had too much pride to allow himself to be overshadowed by this chosen one. So, he held Anakin back and functioned to prevent him from finding a way through the light side to save his mother or Padme.
Very wise Mace Windu was but not without flaw, Anakin's failure as a Jedi had multiple factors and Mace was but one of them, one of the biggest perhaps, but still only one part of the puzzle.
Mace Windu had a hand in creating both Darth Vader and Boba Fett. The man is a vile hypocrite.
By no means is Anakin blameless…but he certainly was pushed down a path that should never have been taken
Mace to me embodied everything wrong with the old Jedi Order and why it set itself up so perfectly for Palpatine to burn it all down. He was arrogant, rude, condescending, bogged down by politics and old 'traditions', inflexible, and he above all others treated the Chosen One like dirt for no reason.
Anikan spent most of his time with Obiwan. Little cherry picked moments with mace aren’t comparable at all to being totally blind to anikans inner struggles he had the entire time he was mentoring him lol.
This is like a parent blaming Eminem for their kid getting into fights at school while they’re actually just not doing a good job teaching that kid how to not get into fights at school.
In the glass abyss mace actually helps Anikan with his anger and use it, giving him a basic understanding of how vapaad works.
Also in glass abyss, you learn a lot about mace and qui gin’s relationship. Mace is absolutely haunted by ignoring qui gons mention of a Sith Lord, and he doesn’t doubt the prophecy at all.
Not only anakin but dooku as well
For the so-called peace keepers and wise spiritual guides of the galaxy, they sure can't grasp psychology and empathy well. Even from the beginning Qui-Gon get down on Anakin's level to talk, while the Council look down on the actual former child slave and tell him he doesn't belong here. Like god damn, we supposed to trust these guys as they take children from their family?
So far I've seen everyone blame everyone else for Anakin becoming Vader.
And not blame Palpatine who initiated the whole thing 😅
This is another reason why I hate Mace windu as a character and Samuel Jackson did a really good job portraying him because he can easily portray characters that are Royal pieces of shit that are so high and mighty and think they're right until the very second they die.
Yep. Mace was actually the most hypocritical jedi of the bunch, but gave Anakin shit every time Anakin showed some kind of individuality.
Mace straight up helped create two of the most infamous figures in SW, being BOTH Darth Vader and Boba Fett. He was everything that was wrong with the Jedi. Stubborn, cold, detached, and emotionless. I really hated Mace and didn’t bat an eye when Palpy threw him out the Windu.
@@animatedink2529 Remember the song "Asshole?" Someones should do a parody with Mace and Jedi elders mocking Anakin!
You’re out of your mind made windu was a fantastic Jedi and the best fighter in the order
Mace didn’t betray anyone it was anakin who killed a bunch of jedis
While not the one mainly responsible, Mace's actions did not help. He missed a huge opportunity to be a mentor to Anakin when he refused to teach him Vaapad.
Ironically, I feel like I'm a lot like Mace Windu as I find it a chore trying to avoid walking on eggshells with people. I don't know what's so hard about looking at things objectively. Sure, I have my limits even doing so, but come on. Anakin was never able to see past his own feelings and it's his own fault that he chose to never open up to Obi-Wan or Ahsoka who would have supported and maybe even bent the rules for him. Mace Windu himself developed an unorthodox fighting style, so he was really only rigid towards Anakin and perhaps Ahsoka because they went out of their way to disregard the rules and orders on a regular basis if you really think about it. Nobody's situation is perfect, so that doesn't excuse what Anakin did from an objective and moral standpoint.
yep, this is the man who literally learned how to control his dark side, but refused to help the chosen one do the same and was a constant hypocrite every step of the way
He wasn’t a hypocrite he was in control of that dark power but he knows anakin wanted just power and he was conflicted.
@JohnQC-n3i well, if they at all taking proper action and actually taught him how to control his darkness before, and akin wanted only power that wouldn't have been the case
@@ZorusSerif well like a lot of people have stated before Mace Windu said wait at the Jedi temple because he was going to make him Jedi Master after arresting Darth sidious. We all know how that ended up with anakin killing all the young jedis in training
@JohnQC-n3i because the dark side took him over & corrupted him & macd wasn't going to arrest him he was going to kill him as he said himself "he's too dangerous to be left alive"
Mace Windu was the kind of character that felt like you were supposed to like, but couldn't help but dislike.
Definitely not all Mace, it was the jedi code and the councils interpretation of it. Mace was at the center of it. Every time you hear an enemy of the jedi talk about them, feels like they're right most of the time. Literal translation is a recipe for disaster in any religion. The jedi, especially the council, took everything so literally, they basically thought they were superior while being blinded by the truth. The tragedy is how many had to die just by association. How many jedi disagreed with the council, died defending it.
Anakin told mace about palpatine, but he didn’t listen
Didn't listen? Mace went to kill Palpatine afterwards.
Palpatine can make storms you know.
So you’re telling me that Palpatine is the Night King?
He believed HE was the chosen one.
Obi-Wan didn't help matters either..
10:41 there’s an old saying that is always proven true time and time again and that is “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
The only people that'd blame Anakin and deflect other peoples' mistreatment are those who'd actively mistreat and think they're above everyone else, so it's 'okay'. Typical victim blaming and shaming.
the biggest problem is the Jedi pushed emotionless to an extreme which living beings cannot truly lie, the opposite being proven bad too in the Sith. as KOTOR Jolee Bindo stated emotion should not be treated in the same vein as passion which is bad. saying it should be tempered not shunned. that the Jedi should teach proper control instead of suppression mentioning love as one of the qualifiers that could only add strength to Jedi instead of beliving it would corrupt
the Jedi don’t push people to be emotionless. What are you talking about?
@@Skölly-b6h well Yoda proves it by telling Anakin not to mourn the people he loses, they take apprentices in very young so they can prevent pesky things like emotions from properly forming dismissing fears need I go on?
@ that’s not being emotionless that’s literally telling him to prepare to eventually lose people because death is out of our hands and we have to accept death is a natural part of life
@@Skölly-b6h you read it that way because you don't see how harmful bottling up and denying emotions is, Jedi have brcome way too dogmatic in their code wielding it like an all knowing guide to life
@ they do not teach you to bottle your emotions they teach you to control your emotions to make sure they don’t make you do rash decisions. What the hell are you talking about?
Both Darth Vader and Boba Fett were Mace Windu's fault.
i think it was jedi modern society, the "system" who consider emotions must be supressed are wrong. and the reason why full potential can be obtained only through fueling your emotions and attachments. to let emotions make you stronger but not make them rule you
You are contradicting your own statement.
Nah they right, if you use emotions as fuel depending on the situation but to not let said fuel control your course is a wise and true statement. If thats what they meant.
@@connerjones568 yes, it's all about listen your heart. also check it counciously, as -- "The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate. Who can know it?"
The result would have been the same Regardless if mace didnt exist
Had Anakin progressed unhindered in his path through the light side of the force he could have saved his mother and Padme's death could have been prevented.
Mace the man that says YOU need to earn his trust, slight snag most people would then not trust you, so what would they pick mace or palpatin.
Oooh! Good point!
I would have chosen Palpatin, since he treated everyone friendly and with respect. Until... 😅
"even legends make stakes"
The mistake:
Legends make legendary mistakes.
You forget Mace uses Vapid which usually involves tapping into the darkside on without surrendering to it. Mace of all the Jedi probably saw his affinity towards it. Thus, believing that he he thought it was best. To instill in him his understanding of he kept himself from surrendering to it. I’m pretty sure Jedi’s had a spy network. Due to surveillance being crucial in gaining control over situations that would otherwise be unpredictable. That wasn’t the moral failing in the Jedi. It was Maces being there to arrest the Palpatine. You forget Palpatine had Anikan kill an unarmed defeated man prior to this. Not to mention the Tuscan raiders before that. The probably was when Mace defeated the Palpatine he was actively connected to the darkside in the conflict and couldn’t see the difference between the two. If Yoda had been there we would’ve probably had a different outcome. The real problem with Mace is that he was an example that the darkside could be tapped into for noble reasons.
I thought George Lucas had something to do with that😂😂😂.
Mace Windu: "You have been tainted by the Dark Side
Anakin Skywalker: No.
Mace Windo: And you have failed the Jedi Order!
Anakin Skywalker: No!!
I do agree that Mace had a lot to do with Anakins fall, and all because he never took the time to look within at his actions towards Anakin as anything other than "the bright thing", which shows a lack of self reflection, which the Jedi are big on. Even Yoda is guilty of this, having used his yardstick to try and keep Anakin in his supposed place.
A lot of it also falls to Obi Wan and his resentments towards Anakin early on (during and after Phantom Menace) didn't help anything. Even the jabs they threw at each other could have ripped deeper than intended.
At the end of the day, rigid tradition and blind faith in it led to Anakin falling, rather than any one person being directly responsible. If Qui Gon had survived, things would probably have played out differently, as Anakin would have had that emotional outlet in the Master that defied the rules to make things better.
Oh look it’s another “let’s throw Mace Windu under the bus” video to appease the Gen Z audience who lacks any sort of accountability. The only person responsible for creating Darth Vader was Darth Vader.
Oh yeah, blame the black guy (jk)
We need backup 🚓🚓🚨
@@ZomboidManiaI bet you do.
I think it's not that simple. Yes, Windu is one of the culprits, but so is the whole Jedi order. Namely, the members of the council, as individuals, failed him. Yoda himself was one of the biggest culprits.
And frankly, that's what you argued for in this video. Almost nothing to single Windu out as the culprit.
The people who were responsible for Vader were Anakin and Palpatine. It's a really short list
I know this off topic, but I would have loved Jar Jar if George Lucas had committed to revealing the Darth Jar Jar conspiracy.
They questioned his age because all of them took decades to make it to master Jedi. If anakin had stayed in the Jedi temple like Master Windu said he would have made him Master Jedi.
That's a very gen z take. No accountability
Anakin was accountable for his own actions.
And the Jedi Order was accountable for Anakin. Since they chose to take him in and raise him.
They also made him a fighting machine and wanted him to be / become the "chosen one". They urged him to carry all the responsibilities yet always treated him with overwhelming distrust. Blaming Anakin for everything is like building a bomb and crying over the explosion afterwards.
@@multivitaminsaft1997Anakin didn’t give much reason to be trusted since he didn’t act like a Jedi. He didn’t bring in Dooku alive when he was defenseless, nor did he ever consider his actions would hurt others if it meant protecting his loved ones like Padme and Shmi. He was quick to lash out at others like the time he was interrogating with Ashoka by his side. Yes the Jedi Council should have been more understanding however they would have been willing to help him if he ever actually explained his issues instead of thinking he could do it himself or worrying about the consequences of his own actions. He married Padme and killed Tuskans in anger; you can’t give yourself justify that as he is solely to blame for such things. His love blinded him which ultimately proved the Jedi right and that he should have been either taught to suppress his attachments or left to leave and see the galaxy away from the eyes of the Sith and Jedi.
@christophercardoza2872 You mean, they would have helped him, if he told them about his love for Padme or his worry for Shmi?
I don´t think so. When Anakin finally opened up to Yoda and told him about his visions of "pain, suffering, death", he didn´t jump on his feet and started a mission to free the slaves on Tatooine, or the prisoners of the Tuskans. He just told him to "let go of everything you fear to lose". Might as well let go of the Jedi code. Or of the younglings, while we´re on it.
The Jedi started much more dangerous missions just to get the upper hand in a military conflict. Not to serve the Force. Even though Dooku tried to talk to them many times, they never really listened and attacked him instead.
Anakin acted exactly like all the other Jedi did. He acted the same way he saw them acting all the time.
He didn´t listen to Dooku. He killed him, like Windu killed Jango and tried to kill Palpatine. He didn´t fight for balance in the Force, but for his own interests instead. Just like the Jedi abandoned their principles and became generals in a war (and thus ultimatly mere pawns in Palpatines evil plan), he also used brute violence trying to achieve his own goals.
@christophercardoza2872 You mean, they would have helped him, if he told them about his love for Padme or his worry for Shmi?
I don´t think so. When Anakin finally opened up to Yoda and told him about his visions of "pain, suffering, death", he didn´t jump on his feet and started a mission to free the slaves on Tatooine, or the prisoners of the Tuskans. He just told him to "let go of everything you fear to lose". Might as well let go of the Jedi code. Or of the younglings, while we´re on it.
The Jedi started much more dangerous missions just to get the upper hand in a military conflict. Not to serve the Force. Even though Dooku tried to talk to them many times, they never really listened and attacked him instead.
Anakin acted exactly like all the other Jedi did. He acted the same way he saw them acting all the time.
He didn´t listen to Dooku. He treated him like Windu treated Jango and Palpatine. He didn´t fight for balance in the Force, but for his own interests instead. Just like the Jedi abandoned their principles and became generals in a war (and thus ultimatly mere pawns in Palpatines plan), he also used violence trying to achieve his own goals.
@christophercardoza2872 You mean, they would have helped him, if he told them about his love for Padme or his worry for Shmi?
I don´t think so. When Anakin finally opened up to Yoda and told him about his visions of "pain, suffering, death", he didn´t jump on his feet and started a mission to free the slaves on Tatooine, or the prisoners of the Tuskans. He just told him to "let go of everything you fear to lose". Might as well let go of the Jedi code. Or of the younglings, while we´re on it.
The Jedi started much more dangerous missions just to get the upper hand in a military conflict. Not to serve the Force. Even though Dooku tried to talk to them many times, they never really listened and attacked him instead.
75% of the video is you saying “they” referring to all the Jedi and not mace in particular
You had me up until Jar Jar. I am, and always shall be, a Jar Jar fan.
But yeah, nice to hear that even if Mace was hard on Anakin, he wasn't malicious about it. Considering Anakin was breaking tradition just by being admitted and posed a great threat, I find it hard to fault Mace for thinking scrutiny was warranted, even if it ultimately ruined everything.
I think you're scapegoating Mace because he's a black character. Yoda agreed with everything Mace did BUT NO ONE BRINGS UP YODA.
Literally was telling my friend abouy this in discord and then this video got recommended lol
I think the whole entire order failed him. I would’ve gone with Palpatine too😂
The Jedi got mislead.
No Jar jar was good and could of been better if they revealed him as a sith.
They cost him to turn to the dark side
Anakin was naive and a manipulative Palpatine preying on his weakness should have been more obvious to someone as "streetwise" as the poor child from Tattoine should have been.The Jedi (knowing no sith) knew that Anakin was to bring balance to the force and were blind to the fact that balance meant good and bad. How dumb is it that considering all theses "masters" being at one with the force, they were so obviously mistaken. This wasn't even a topic of debate! Bad writing....
Of course it was mace windu's fault he never gave anakin a chance and hated anakin from the start. He looked down on anakin the whole time treated him a lesser just because he become a jedi the traditional way. Mace was the one objected to anakin becoming a jedi never trusted him and didn't believe anakin was the chosen one.
That’s a lie he defended anakin and was going to make him master after he arrested Palestine but anakin betrayed everyone
Anakin was doomed from the start, because the original trilogy made it so. We all knew Anakin would turn to the dark side. There wasn't any point for the writers to make this outcome a surprise or a twist.
The real question to the drama was to see how Anakin was supposed to be such a great hero to have fallen. I think "The Chosen One" prophecy probably did the most disservice to the Character and the Story.
It could had been a story about a likable underdog who was faced with no win conditions, where to achieve his goals he kept taking steps that lead him to the Dark side, where Anakin was trying to do the right thing for selfless reasons. However be special to all the characters, basically put all the conflict to be focused on Anakin not living up to expectations that were basically promised to him. Making him a spoiled brat across the prequels, making him unlikable. Where the fall to Darth Vader was supposed to be a tragedy, because a release because now he can be cool.
I was on board til the jar jar slander
Great video, but I have to slightly disagree.
Mace Windu wasn't the reason he turned.
By your description it is all because of the Jedi Order. Their rules were difficult, the criticism and Anakin constantly being scrutinized by the Jedi Order and when he saw Mace Windu go against everything they and he knew was wrong. He responded and changed.
I think we can all agree that Mace was doing what he knew best, he was there to arrest Palpatine and he was ready to act in any manner to save the galaxy.
Anakin came in later on and it gave Palpatine a way to manipulate Anakin and the galaxy.
The Jedi Order was the problem, not Mace Windu.
Finally someone else notices.
Mace might have vocalized it more, but Yoda didn't trust Anakin either.
That´s right!
And when Anakin finally opened up to him, all he had to say to him was this "let go" shit. That wasn´t exactly jedi wisdom right? Why would he let go of a living person in danger?
Anakin could count the number of people that genuinely trusted him on one hand. And with the other hand he could count all the people HE genuinely trusted. And unfortunately for everyone Palpatine worked his way into both counts
Yoda's concern was the clouded(potentially dark) future of Anakin. Mace was full of self-pride and abhorred the idea of allowing this young, prophesied boy to take the limelight.
Nope. It’s on Yoda. Mace saw the potential dark side in Anakin and was skeptical and adversarial at times. Which was his role. Yoda, on the other was the grandmaster and did not see the situation without the lens of his dogma, constantly pushing him to devoid his emotions instead of listening to him.
This video is good but I’m personally tired of Yoda getting a pass cause he cute and green. He was a terrible grandmaster. Yoda created Darth Vader more than anyone else
The Jedi made plenty of mistakes, but Anakin is responsible for his own downfall. He had so many red flags upon meeting him which I’m not blaming him for, but he is to blame for not getting his crap together for the 10+ years that he was in the order. He wanted to be a Jedi ,but couldn’t handle the responsibility that came with being one nor could he properly follow the code that he agreed to follow. He constantly broke the rules and displayed behavior that’s unfitting for a Jedi and yet he wonder why the council was weary of him. The Jedi had every reason to expelled him but they didn’t , and look where that got them. If you really wanna blame a Jedi then blame Qui Gon for forcing Anakin onto obi wan and for forcing the council to accept a boy who never should’ve been trained.
"Behavior unfitting for a Jedi", oh boy, how do I tell you that all Jedi have fallen into that regard? Also he didn't "agree" per say, it was just the best option for him. It was either that or continue living under slavery. Also no wonder he doesn't follow rules of people who don't even respect him.
@@clipsdelosmajes there's a difference between being unorthodox like Obi Wan could be at times, and outright horrible like Anakin casually committing war crimes and killing unarmed prisoners, huge difference
@@ZomboidMania, to give an example, letting his emotions out and killing the tuskens out of rage. "And not just the men. The women and children too." (Quote might be off.)
😂 I wholeheartedly disagree with you, respectfully, he wasn’t raised in a proper manner, and not being supported by the rest of the order, he knew from right from wrong. But what this dude is narrating is very much on point, I think you need to re-listen again.
@ I’m not saying that Anakin was the only Jedi Padawan or Knight that displayed that sorta behavior at times, but other Jedi had no problem with admitting to their mistakes and learning from them without lashing out or throwing blame around. When Anakin makes those mistakes, he throws blame around, gets angry or frustrated, lashes out at Obi Wan because Anakin doesn’t see what he did wrong and he believes that he’s being held back by the people that only wants the best for him. Also he did agree, he was going to leave the order but changed his mind after going on a mission with obi wan. Lastly, not once did we ever see that the Jedi had no respect for Anakin. What we did see is that the Jedi weren’t going to hold his hand and kiss his ego like Palpatine.
The Jedi fall was a product of Yoda's guidance
Anakin would have been better off leaving the order and becoming an Actual Jedi or Grey Jedi.
Mace actually was right the entire time he didn’t trust Anakin and was also in touch with Sith power. He said “ I feel a great confusion in you young sky Walker.”
Mace didn't lead the Jedi order, guy. That was Yoda. Did Mace play a SMALL part in Anakin becoming Vader? yes, certainly. But there is more to it.
1. Obi-Wan wasn't fit to teach Anakin. He treated him like a brother when he should have been guiding him. How did Obi-wan not know his Padawan was shagging a senator? How did Obi wan manage to miss all the telltale signs of Anakin slipping to the Darkside. Why did Obi-wan not question Palpatine's interest in Anakin? The list goes on.
2. Qui-Gon was another factor. Did he truly buy that BS about the Force "just creating" a child? The council forbid Anakin's admittance into the order and for good reason. But Qui-gon just ignored it because he knew better. Too bad he never thought to make certain Obi-wan went back for Anakin's mom.
3. Yoda. He never questioned Palpatine's interest in Anakin. But you know who did? Mace did. Yoda overruled any jedi that tried to find evidence of Sith still being at play. Yoda KNEW the Clones would turn on the order and did NOTHING about it. The grandmaster of the order let a Sith in right under his nose. He never questioned who made the Clones or what true purpose they might have served. He'd denied Anakin entry because he knew the kid had issues. But then let him stay due to a guilty conscience. There are more actors, but this is too long already.
i agree that anakan should not have been made a master he was to immature to arrogant and ambitious its won of the few things the jedy did that i agree with
What about Mace Windus way of dressing is in any way special/cool???
I've heard this dumb argument a million times. Mace Windu ( with Yoda who was in complete agreement with EVERYTHING MACE DID AND IS NEVER BROUGHT UP ) was in charge of protecting the ENTIRE GALAXY. Then the Clone Wars began which he had to lead WITH YODA. Mace went back and fourth from Episodes one through three whether Anakin was the chosen one and whether he could be trusted or not. Mace ultimately was correct Anakin couldn't be trusted. Yoda said he was too old. I think you're scapegoating Mace because he's a black character.
What is this?
The Republic era was ending, the Jedi couldn't do anything more for Anakin or the Republic!
Anakin was the chosen one, he must get over his mother, his fiance and do the right thing for peace!! But nope, he chose to ki ll everybody in cold blo od!
I always believed that mace windu and yoda were responsible for creating Vader and destroying the Jedi order.
Yoda was 99.9995% responsible for destroying the order.
@@Spawned-uy8ip and that's why he exiled to a swamp land forever lmao
I hate the Mace Hate
Oh ok blame mace windu bc he’s black.
People are saying it was Yoda's fault as well.
Oh ok, it's also cause he's green?
😂
@@SMD965OFFICIAL shut your mouth
@@joeyiwuajoku3394 keep crying 😂
Is that why he had issues granting Anakin the title of Master?
Windu was not a good man
Sidious made earth Vader
No he didn’t
Love this channel glad I stumbled across it ✅
I’ve said the Jedi was evil from day one because if you put yourself in Anakin’s shoes for example you will understand that his failure of being a “Great Jedi” was not on him alone.
I blame the Jedi council , Obi-Wan , Yoda & Mace Windu for how Anakin turned out.
#GoodChannel 🔥🔥🔥
Nah he was too emo and old to be trained. Yoda was right.
“Cuz tonight will be the night that I will fall for you”
Saying Mace "made" Darth Vader is just clickbait, possibly racially motivated. If you ask yourself when exactly Anakin started transitioning into Darth Vader, Mace didn't raise Anakin, Mace didn't make Anakin ignore select parts of his Jedi training, Mace had nothing to do with Anakin killing civilian Sand People on Tatooine, Mace didn't make Anakin keep secrets, Mace certainly didn't tell Anakin to go kill kids in the Jedi Temple or kill his wife (Mace being dead at the time). Anakin was responsible for his own decisions. Even if you make the argument that a kid isn't responsible for their decisions, or that the brain doesn't fully develop until later in life, at some point kids become adults, making adult decisions with adult consequences. Anakin went way in over his head, it wasn't just one "oopsie" or even a bunch of them, just way way out there.
"He was told he was too old, etc." - well, we see how that turned out, in the end Anakin WAS too attached. It wasn't simply a matter of age, the reason older Jedi candidates often weren't accepted was precisely because older children had often not only formed attachments but gotten used to forming attachments. It's not that Anakin was judged on some nonsensical policy either; Anakin actually came before the Jedi Council, who could read his emotions in the Force to make an informed and accurate decision.
You could argue judging after the fact because Anakin turned out to do bad things is no good, that Anakin should have been given a chance. But Anakin was given a chance. Stating (correctly) that pre-judging negatively affects outcomes in no way negates the fact that Anakin went way overboard, by a lot.
"He was denied the position of Master" - simply, no. It is not that Anakin was "denied" anything, he simply hadn't earned it. In fact, Anakin treating the situation as if he had somehow "earned" ascension to Master was a sign of his immaturity and attachments. Casting the situation negatively was Palpatine's pressure, Palpatine's twisting and forcing the situation, and the video maker buying into that whole argument is plainly silly.
"Wars do not make one great" - Yoda or some such. So Anakin was a big war hero, big whoop, Look to the "history" in Star Wars, there was a whole recurrent thing where Jedi would be war heroes, get attached, turn to the dark side, end up instigating wars that killed loads of people. Even without "historical" precedent, Jedi glorifying the whole war action would have been entirely against what the Jedi were all about in the first place.
If you want to say Anakin wanted to ascend to Master to gain access to records so he could try to avoid the future he saw in his Force visions, that's still no excuse. Anakin refused to share any of that with the Jedi Council. Again, what were the Jedi really about? Doing things for personal reasons directly arising from personal attachments, keeping secrets, and so on, was all Anakin.
"When telling the Jedi that Palpatine was Sith" or to that effect - Anakin still hadn't confessed to killing the Sand People to the Jedi, but even without that clearly Anakin was in over his head with loads of things that he shouldn't have been doing, playing political games with the Chancellor, and so forth. Mace knew that, it had been an ongoing matter of concern that the entire Jedi Council had discussed. Anakin suddenly popping up and making loads of confessions only confirmed what had already been suspected.
On the spot, having to make a decision, should Mace have ignored the potential threat of an unknown Sith Master that he knew had been influencing Anakin for years, and allowed Anakin to come along with everyone else? No, clearly not. Even when parting, Anakin was still trying to influence outcomes, clearly Anakin could not achieve emotional separation from the situation. Anakin was clearly compromised, and Mace read and responded to the situation correctly.
In the end, arguing Anakin was under pressure, claiming an adult Anakin was in no way responsible for his own extermist actions repeatedly over decades of time, is going way too far. On the other hand, claiming Mace was solely to blame for things he only peripherally influenced as one voice (though influential) in a larger group, or correctly assessing time and again situations, and acting correctly, is just nonsense. Mace did nothing wrong; even Mace's failure to identify Anakin and Palpatine in their particular roles cannot be characterized as anything other than Mace simply not overcoming the machinations of Palpatine.
What does race have to do with anything
Racially motivated?!?! Dude, you're reaching. And projecting.
There probably doesn't need to be anything added (really nice, btw), but I just want to emphasize that his attatchments were what birthed Vader. Therefore, even if he did save Padmé, it would've just been something else. Maybe Luke gets deathly ill. Maybe Leia gets kidnapped. Maybe Padmé gets old. He had been walking the line of light and dark for longer than just RotS, and it was only a matter of time before he slipped.
@@nunyabidness5010 because we all know how the Gen Z crowd feels about certain people in fiction and science fiction.
@@jibril2473 Who do you mean?
Anakin was a damaged individual from day one. He was not even fully Human. In another time he would have become a School Shooter with, or without, Palpatine. Do not forget that he burned Younglings to death (including new Infants) at the Tuskin Raiders Camp.
Man hell na the whole Jedi code made Darth Vader and if you want to blame somebody blame Obi wan