Vader was a Emperor's Hand. He neither had nor needed rank. He deferred to Tarkin aboard the Death Star as a courtesy since that was Tarkin's base, and Vader was merely visiting it. Aboard Vader 's own ship, one would expect Tarkin to show similar courtesy.
@@MGower4465 , I agree and had they disagreed, a force choke would've left room for a promotion, just like when the one commander screwed up and alerted the rebels to the empire's presence, if I remember right, by coming out of light speed too close to the base.
Well vader was told to stop killing the Moffs by the emperor. So perhaps Vader was simply keeping himself in check with tarkin also know that palpatine favoured tarkin as well. dont go killing the emperors best friend.... Also Vader didn't show much respect to the Moff on the new death star, so I am thinking, it would have not been any different with tarkin. But tarkin got results.
@@rogermoore8977 800 😂 his credit score never fell below 1300 since he became lord Vader. Have u seen his properties? Volcanic mansion, underwater villa 😂
Vader has no official rank within the Imperial military. The 2017 comics you keep citing explicitly have some of the officers noting Vader operates outside of their command structure and he answers to no one. After several failed attempts to assassinate him, Vader requests Palpatine introduce him properly to the commanding officers, where he promptly chokes some of them, so to establish that he holds more power than they ever will. During that same introduction, Palpatine flat out says a command from Vader should be treated as a direct command from himself. Vader served as the emperor's voice and right hand, and unless other special instructions were in play, only Palpatine himself could overrule Vader's order.
That's not true. All the Republic Military forces would have become Imperial Military forces when the Republic reformed in the Galactic Empire. Anakin Skywalker held the rank of General in the Grand Army of the Republic during the clone wars. Unless he quit, retired, or was demoted, he'd at minimum still hold the rank of General, presuming no promotions in over 20 years.
It never bugged me that Vader acquiesced Tarkin’s orders. It made sense that Vader would respect Tarkin’s jurisdiction as the Death Star was his command.
It isn't just that. It was Vader could clearly see Tarkin was doing Palpatine's bidding. So, he was actually not really subject to Tarkin's authority so much as he was the Emperor's.
@@HoustonSoto plus, Tarkin was a man of principle and honor, which Vader respected. If anything, Vader hated ambitious upstarts, like all those admirals and directors whom he would Force choke, but Tarkin wasn't one of them. Plus, they already formed a bond of mutual respect during the Clone Wars.
I read the Star Wars comic where Palpatine tells Vader to defer to Tarkin on the Death Star. On top of that, “everybody needs friends”, including a dark, evil, brooding Sith Lord like Darth Vader.
Well, anakin is in there somewhere. And we all know that anakin isn't stupid. Unless an action is going to cross with a goal that Vader wants to personally achieve. I think he's going 2. Allow delegation to carry out. He understands how the system works
about say depending on if vader angered palpatine he put him as subordinate under somebody else, as punishment to humilate him like did to as final punishment for letting death star get destroyed he had play heel to damn admiral who in new hope told rest of moffs not get to superior over death star cause rebels more better equipped than they realized, of course after that admiral fucked up who was in now in command of new super star destroyer, palaptine gave him his command and vader snapped his neck like twig.
Vader was Palpatine's enforcer. Also, his eyes and ears. That's why Vader was teamed with Tarkin at the Death Star. Tarkin may have been in charge, but Vader was insurance that everything went according to plan.
Everyone knows about rank, but there's something equally important in the military, and that is billet. Vader may "outrank" Tarkin, but if Tarkin is appointed the commander of the Death Star by someone who outranks Vader, Tarkin is in charge. Similarly, an admiral can command a fleet, but he does not command the ship he is on. The captain does.
Sidious was also grooming Padme to be Anakin's bride, knowing that the Chosen One could not be turned by his own interest, but only compassion for others-- which the Sith considered to be a weakness. We know that Palpatine was Padme's mentor from early childhood, and so he certainly tricked her into marrying Anakin, likely telling her that she was too old for him, while at the same time talking him up; and he talked up Padme around Anakin too; then he used her to turn Anakin Sith.
If you look at it in a historical point of view. You would see that in ww2 there was a guy named himmler, he was the SS Leader, so that guy was everywhere, in the Wehrmacht he could have a say, in the Lufftwaffe he could have a say, in the Kriegsmarine he could also have a say. It probably annoyed the other generals because he was an anomaly
The thing is, Himmler had no authority over any branch of the Wehrmacht, not the Heer, or the Kriegsmarine, and most definitely not the Luftwaffe which was headed up by Hermann Goering who was himself a part of Hitler's inner circle and jealously guarded both his rank and authority. To the best of my knowledge, Himmler had no role in either the OberKommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) or the OberKommando der Heer {OKH}; the military and Army high commands respectively. Himmler's rank and authority put him in charge of the entirety of the SS, including the Waffen SS. But operationally, the Waffen SS was placed under the control of the Heer or Army. So, Himmler had little to nothing to do with actual military operations and was completely incompetent when it came to such matters. In fact, he was one of the few top German leaders who had no real prior experience and was not a veteran of WWI.
@@Riceball01 I know he didn’t have authority over those branches but he would always say to a high ranking officer or General even Herman Goering himself, “don’t you fancy yourself having an SS rank?” The Officer will be like “no” Himmler be like “okay I can pay you double with medical aid benefits” Officer be like “really” Himmler “yah, I mean they don’t pay you enough for this traumatic job of shooting people, in the SS all you have to do is to be in charge or give me information because the furhrer needs eyes and ears everywhere, and you’ll prove yourself to be of pure Aryan race” Officer “yeah, you are right” And than you end up with an SS officer in a submarine or flying a fighter plane or being a puppet master to a mayor in a town that the heer just took. Even in the last days of the regime there was a Herman Fegelien in the furhrer, what was he doing there, we all want to know. Every time the OKW did something the SS would pop up and say “we will take it from here”
@@VandodJoon Himmler had way more authority than Goebbles and while a die hard party member, he was way more interested in his own personal power than Goebbles was. Himmler was in charge of the entire SS which included the Gestapo, the SD, the Waffen SS (which was an army unto itself), & he was in charge of the concentration camps. His only real rivals were Bormann who controlled access to Hitler, & Goering who was the head of the Luftwaffe & held the title of Reichsmarshall. Goering was so powerful & influential that managed to get his own Panzer division for the Luftwaffe, not one assigned to the Luftwaffe from the Army but one that was an actual part of the Luftwaffe.
@0predaking0 Grew up with the original trilogy & some comics, & took in the additional 3 movies as they were released. I also came away with the same impression. Vader was as visible as he needed to be, as well as whatever rank palpatine felt like sticking him with from mood swing to mood swing. But he seemed to represent the future of the Empire no matter what his role.
Tarkin was the Emperors top general, and he told Vader what to do on a few occasions... shared power under the Empire, but heir to the throne after he killed the Emperor... it's the Sith way;)
Vader was totally outside of military and civil power structure and was the #2 Sith lord and apparent heir to EP. As Sith lord, he could take command of military or civil authority to fulfill his Sith directive, but was subservient to EP and followed his directives. He could execute singularly or en mass based on his own discretion and the only one he answered to was EP. The reason there is some confusion as to his position is because he didnt seek personal power and acted for the benefit of EP, not himself. EP didnt use him as ruler, but gave him missions. His talents would have been wasted on bureaucracy and were best used as destructive force and boogy man. As such he was not tied to a post, but free to go from mission to mission and take control as needed, which he did. His position was akin to the commander of the secret police. He could go into any organization and could imprison or execute any person for disobedience, so he could take control as needed. Though after he left, power reverted to the original structure. As for Tarkin, DV could have executed him, but would have answered to EP for it. Tarkin was another pet of EP and had some of the privilege given to DV. Tarkin, like DV was loyal, competent and ruthless and so DV had no reason to step on his toes.
Vader had no rank. He was outside the formal rank structure of the Imperial Army/Navy. His role was to act as a representative of the Emperor, that's why he could give orders to military officers. When Uncle Senate wanted Vader to fill a specific role, then he would be seen as a type of mission specialist, still with no rank, but acting in whatever capacity Palpy deemed necessary.
Great job! very good video. My understanding is Vader was second in command of the Imperial military being only behind Palpatine. He was under Tarkin on the Death Star because Palpatine gave Tarkin specifically full oversight of the Death Star and Vader didnt mind receiving orders from Tarkin to much because he respected him. Vader was placed under the command of the grand general as punishment for the destruction of the death star. But since it was only punishment from Palpatine, something he knew would hurt Vaders pride it was only temporary.
He was Palpatines right hand. Above everyone else. The thing with Tarkin was only because of how much the emperor valued Tarkin. At any point, Palpatine could have allowed Vader to kill him.
Tarkin was in on the republic’s overthrow with Papatine, even before Anakin became Vader. He was one of the key players working with the emperor on the overthrow. He knew about force users, Jedi etc and was fully aware Vader was Anakin. Tarkin was just as driven as the emperor and respected Vader and his role but he didn’t fear him. He was one of the very few that Vader felt understood him and was in full alignment with their plans. Vader and emperor never felt they needed to manipulate Tarkin. Tarkin was as much in on the plan and a willing participant as they were. He was virtually the 3 member of the grand plan. He was also a brilliant leader himself. Regardless of Vader’s ranks Tarkin was a borderline friend to a Vader more than virtually anyone else alive at that time and shared the Sith philosophies about life. Vader respected him and therefore listened to him.
As an analogy to real-life history, what I think applies here is something akin to nobility not so much outranking military hierarchy, but the nobility owning the military hierarchy. This can still be seen in many European royal houses, where the king or queen is not in charge of any government agency, but is considered to hold higher office than any government official. Historically barons, dukes, and princes (and of course: kings and emperors) didn't operate in military hierarchies; they founded military regiments and funded them. A Moff in Star Wars is based on real-world functionaries like Persian Satraps, or the Spanish and British viceroys: Nobles who held executive power in the name of their monarch. In that sense a noble linked directly to the monarch like Vader held similar stature to a Moff. But someone like Tarkin had a clear brief on what to do with his power, while vader was more of a 'minister-without-portfolio.' Anyway, that's my tuppence.
i like the way you put this, i could see the same things happening with a Prince who is second to the throne and a Commander who is the highest ranking military officer. Although soldiers know the Commander is above everyone in their ranking the princes word is still far greater. VAder took that to an even greater level since he isn't some helpless prince but the most battle hardened and capable second only to Palpatine himself
Outside the rank structure, answers only to the emperor, when he decides to take charge of an operation then he is in charge, acts subserviently in certain contexts with others of similar answering-only-to-the-emperor status when he is 'in their dojo'. An analog that comes to mind are spectres from mass effect, but without the formally established institution.
Lord Vade was subservient to Grand Moff Tarkin, by orders from Emperor Palpatine. He was the one and only person he had to obey, until the death star was destroyed and Emperor Palpatine was enraged and blamed Vader for the loss. Due to this, Palpatine placed Vader under the command of General Tagge for a short time. When Tagge failed Palpatine, Vader killed the man. After that Vader answered to no one except The Empepor
@@randalcook325 At the time he ranked about the same as Grand Moff Tarkin, essentially, but only deferred to him as appropriate which would be when aboard Tarkin's command, The Death Star. If the situation was reversed Tarkin would defer to Vader if for example aboard The Executor. Tarkin was given charge of a pretty hefty command, this would demand a certain respect and deference; but not subservience. Imagine Palps reaction if his apprentice who had no official standing and leave to do so were to be openly hostile towards one who held enough clout to helm the empire's ultimate weapon. There is also the fact that at the time of A New Hope Vader's official capacity and exact role and nature much less if he would even survive the film were nebulous at best.
Incorrect, Lord Vader was equal to Grand Moffs and Grand Admirals in rank unless the Emperor (acting as Sidious) granted him full authority and requisition above them. This is one reason Rogue One doesn't work. Darth Vader is not a pawn in Tarkin's game. He is the queen in Palpatine's chess game. Stormtroopers are the pawns, which is why they are seen first in Episode 4, clearing out the rebels before Vader enters. Side note: Rogue One is also broken in lore. According to Vader, several transmissions were beamed to the consular ship, yet in Rogue One, they hand delivered it . Disney fails. It's as almost as if they had no idea about a key character.
@@toejamandearl8110They simply don't care about established lore or facts within the episodes that came before. Thus, they just don't bother to pay attention to vital details.
@toejamandearl8110 what you are failing to see is this, yes the plans for operation Star Dust were originally beamed to Leah's ship. Then taken out of the computer system of the ship and transferred to a disk, that Leah then put into R2D2s system on the chip, as well S the message to Obi Wan. So had the ISD destroyed that escape pod the cursed rebels would not have gotten the plans. And yes, Lord Vader took orders from Grand Moff Tarkin in New Hope. This came from Emperor Palpatine himself. He told Vader to make sure those plans were found. While it is true that Lord Vader was on the same level as Tarkin and the Grand Admirals, Admiral Motti and General Tagge were not at that level. They were below Vader and The Grand Admirals. Technically the others had not even been created yet, as this was the first movie and no tech manuals or books had been written yet. It wasn't until the mid 90's that Star Wars blew up into the giant creation it is today. Long Live The Empire.
@@chrissauter7501 In Star Wars, when the Millennium Falcon is captured and brought on the Death Star, Vader says: "I sense something... a presence I haven't felt since..." Next we see Vader talking to Tarkin. VADER: He is here... TARKIN: Obi-Wan Kenobi! What makes you think so? VADER: A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old master. TARKIN: Surely he must be dead by now. VADER: Don't underestimate the power of the Force. TARKIN: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion. A moment later after an alarm goes off and they think Kenobi is trying to free Leia. VADER: Obi-Wan is here. The Force is with him. The way Tarkin was familiar with Vader's connection to Obi-Wan (his old master) and that he was a former Jedi shows he knows. "You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion." Seems clear to me anyway.
He was basically a senior member of the "Sith Church". During the Crusades here on earth, religious leaders of various ranks moved up and down the "big picture" command structure as it ebbed and flowed during the Crusades. The relationship between the Catholic Church and the military/political leaders of the Crusader coalition armies were tenuous diplomatic affairs. A bishop could, for instance, demand the Crusader armies attack a large force, but whether they obeyed depended on several factors and was always a calculation of what the result would be, who would gain the most, would the military/political leaders gain wealth and power, etc.
I like to think of it like this: His rank was similar to that of an Emperor's son, who is also well known as a short-tempered invincible assasin. In more modern terms, if the empire is the company you work for, he is the owner's son (and also a known short-tempered invincible assassin.)
Vader was a warrior-priest. The closest thing we would have to him would be Bishop Odo. Who was a lord, warrior, priest, statesman, and advisor. He answered to the king, was a military leader, helped conquer a kingdom, put down a rebellion, tried to overthrow that kingdom. (Let all that sink in) Palpatine did not want Vader in absolute control of the his military because he knew Vader would become to powerful and betray him.
Well, the last we knew Anakin Skywalker was a general in the Republic army, so I guess that’s probably as far as Vader got cause he really became more the civilian side standing next to the emperor so he’s probably a general in the imperial army.
Technically and if I'm not mistaken it is mentioned that he technically is a Commander, like Kylo Ren in the Force Awakens. He is in charge of the 501st and the Executor Super Star Destroyer
They hinted in Dark Lord Rise of Darth Vader book which is now considered Legends that Bail Organa knew or thought that Anakin was Darth Vader especially when Vader visited him and requested to meet his Wife who was taking care of Leia at the time and Organa was nervous as hell.
I've always believed that Lord Vader operated outside the Imperial military, maintaining his prominence as not only an apprentice, but also as a true friend of Darth Sidious. He proved to be someone that Darth Sidious could trust to carry out personal matters and requests that were important to him in his rise to power. I also believe that as Lord Vader continued to prove again and again his friendship and loyalty to the dark lord and the empire, he was allowed greater privilege to operate on his own to further expand and elevate the galactic empire. The only way he could do this effectively and efficiently was operate outside of any military organization/hierarchy that would have held him back.
Ever since the ending of Rogue One, I have hoped for a Darth Vader movie. My thoughts were that it NEEDS to be rated R. After watching this, it needs to be a TV series, or even a movie trilogy, but still Rated R!
In terms of rank, the titles below an emperor are: Grand duke Traditionally ranks below an emperor, but above a sovereign prince or sovereign duke Archduke A rank in the former Holy Roman Empire that was roughly equal to a king, prince-archbishop, or grand prince Duke The highest hereditary title in the United Kingdom, Spain, and Portugal, aside from titles held by a reigning dynasty Prince Often the child of the monarch, but the rank can vary Other sovereign titles include: king, sovereign prince, and sovereign duke. The nobility is a social class that ranks just below royalty. The five titles of the peerage, in descending order, are: marquess, earl, viscount, and baron.
One way to look at it, perhaps, if using the U.S. military as an analogy, Palpatine would be a civilian supreme commander of all forces, while Vader could be considered an honorary Space Force officer with a rank akin to General of the Armies (a rank that applies to any branch but provides command over all branches independent of their parent branch). The pay grade for such a rank would be akin to the nonexistent O-12, but in reality, it would fall outside the standard pay grade structure and instead be custom set by Congress. This would make his branch association primarily with the Imperial Navy, as it operates similarly to how the U.S. Space Force would function in commanding fleets and orbital operations. However, his unique rank and position, derived directly from Palpatine, granted him authority over all branches of the military, bypassing the traditional chain of command. In U.S. terms, this is akin to a hybrid role combining elements of a Unified Combatant Commander, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and a special presidential envoy, with the added aspect of his Sith status elevating him beyond formal military structure. This meant that, while his actions and association were heavily tied to the Imperial Navy, his authority extended across the entire Imperial military, making him effectively a supreme commander of all forces under the Emperor’s will.
2nd in command is pretty high up there. Plus, he can nearly operate with virtual immunity, plus very low oversight or checks. 6:04 Thought vader was holding up a pizza slice.
@@jestertheslackerI disagree on Hagan, as the Emperor didn't truly confide in Vader or accept his counsel. Palpatine has tried to replace Vader numerous times. He just won't die, so he keeps him as muscle and intimidation.
Vader is above all other than EP. He just respects Tarkin and was told to follow him as they need people like Tarkin to make things happen, but ultimately Vader is the eyes and ears for the emperor. Tarkin makes things happen but Vader is no.2
Vader was about Sith business, and that superseded Empire business at all times. In Tarkin and The Rise of Darth Vader, Sidious had Vader foster a relationship with Tarkin, and Tarkin was well aware of Vader's position. Put more stock in the novels as they define Vader's true rank. It can even be seen in Rogue One that Vader and Tarkin were about the Emperor's business, and there is no doubt that it is triumphant.
He wasn't originally that highly ranked in ANH he was just kind of like the hired muscle but that was retconned later when he became massively popular. It's a bit like how he couldn't sense his own daughter through the Force when she was standing right there in front of him. There wasn't really any need to hide her from him.
@@spiritualhammer392I mean he couldn't sense her in ROTJ either so that aspect isn't a retcon. It's established that to sense someone through the force on that level there needs to be an established emotional connection between the two, Vader didn't sense Luke was his son until he found out and after ESB and Luke finds out that's when they start being able to sense each other through the force.
Dude, most of A New Hope is about Darth Vader, LOL. Even when Obi Wan and Luke have scenes, and the fall of Darth Vader is discussed, its very much implied he runs the show from a military strategy aspect. He listened to Tarkin to stop force choking the guy because he was going to kill, thats not really being obedient I would say. Vader was always the most popular character starting from A New Hope. Hes second in command to the Emperor its that simple. While Tarkin suggests miniscle things to Vader, Vader does what he wants and when he wants to do. Palpatine barely gives him any orders.
@@joshetter1066true dat. Unless your Force signature is really really high and you can't mask it like Palpatine during his time as Chancellor. But then you feel a "disturbance" in the Force, without knowing who this person is. Then, once you get a "whiff" of someone's Force and you have some emotional connnection to this person, you can sense them in particular later on. Funny how in terms of sensing one another Force users basically work like dogs. I wonder if they also piss at lamp posts to mark their terrain.
He was a Lord, not rank and file. He did what he wanted because he was the only one Palpatine trusted. Tarkin was one of the few originals he valued and respected. A wise man is never without council.
That's not how sith operate. Vader was a, begrudged, tool for the Emperor to play with until a stronger replacement was found. Problem is there was no one stronger than Vader, so they had to deal with each other.
Vader’s rank in the empire was fundamentally different from any other person in the empire, as his relationship with Palpatine was that of master and apprentice. Yes, there where times where Vader had to answer to other officers, but in the end it was because of Vader’s position as Palpatine’s apprentice that he was put through these tasks, as Palpatine was always pushing Vader to go above and beyond as his enforcer and as his sith apprentice even if that meant showing some “tough love” and being temporary demoted at times, as in the end there was always a sort of hidden lesson to be found in it, so that Vader could grow and better manage and oversee the empire. On top of all that Vader was the only person in the empire who could understand the nature and power of the force in the same way that Palpatine could, which transcends anything else that others officers, governors, admirals or even inquisitors could bring to the table.
As a Jedi, under the Republic, he was a general.He held no rank as a sith. He was led to believe he was next in succession, but the Emperor tried to replace him every chance he got. So he was actually just a disposable weapon for Palpatine to use. Warlord?
I was always under the impression that Vader answered only to the emperor and was basically his supreme commander of all military personnel. He seemed to have absolute decision making ability over anyone unless the emperor’s orders stated otherwise. The whole nonsense about Tarkin I took simply as a courtesy to defer to him bc he was aboard his star destroyer. The image of the emperor and Vader standing staring out the window at the Death Star construction while Tarkin leaves them tells me he definitely had no place to stand among them in power.
Vader was and remains outside military protocol And he behaved just like the Jedi Knights he represented the "authority" of the Emperor As for Grand Moff Tarkin, Vader was personally ordered by the Emperor to be an "assistant" to Tarkin under his command, in an action to recover the Death Star plans
Lord Vader was well known throughout the Empire, and was the one figure in the Empire you did not want to meet! To say people didn't know about the Jedi order, or the power of Jedi in the early days of the Empire is not possible. Many didn't know Palpatine was a Sith Lord, but everyone knew Palpatine's enforcer was a Jedi, and feared him greatly!
Watching "New Hope" alone, without additional context, one could assume that Vader was some weird, dark enforcer on friendly terms with the highest ranking military officer we see (Tarkin), but still somehow under his command. In "Empire" Vader is completely unleashed, with only the Emperor above him - that's very clear. It becomes less clear later, with stuff like Jerjerrod and some imperial guards actually stopping Vader from seeing the Emperor - in a deleted scene, but still. I always thought that "Rogue One" tried to bring some order into this whole Vader situation by placing Vader at the very top of Imperial hierarchy, just below the Emperor. Vader is mentioned first by Krennic in his conversation with Tarkin before the "demonstration" of Death Star's power - Krennic says he wished the Emperor or Vader to be there and Tarkin explains he wanted to save Krennic the humiliation (should the demonstration fail). That sounds like - from Tarkin's perspective - both the Emperor and Vader are more important people than himself. Later in the movie Krennic is summoned by Vader and tries to explain what happened so far and why it happened, shifting the blame on Tarkin. Vader's reaction implies that he considers both Krennic and Tarkin to be below him, like two subordinates fighting to gain the favor of their boss. Krennic goes on and tries to use Vader to get directly to the Emperor - bypassing Tarkin - and asks for confirmation that he's still in charge of the Death Star; that implies that Vader could reverse Tarkin's orders which deprived Krennic of this command. I'm also not sure the question about Vader's rank is correct at all. "Rank" implies a position within a defined organization, military or civilian. Vader was not a member of the Imperial military nor of the civilian administration - he was outside of all that, hence he didn't have a rank as such.
After Tarkin's death and the Battle of Yavin Vader was second only to the Emperor. Palpatine said to Vader 'The fleet will be yours. The Executor will be yours'. This in the Marvel comic 'Darth Vader'. After The Emperor 'gives' Vader the fleet and the Excecutor, Vader killed General Tagge.
Hey I just noticed; the inside of Vader's helmet, when it's first mounted on his head, is made of hard disk internal parts. Seriously... every part of it. cool.
You got to remember one thing about Sith and Sith alone. The master will be overthrown by the apprentice. Sidius to Plageus. Vader to Sidius. Bane's rule of two was to keep that in check since Sith would continuously kill each other for power. So Sidius would keep him on a leash.
Vader is Palpatine's only Apprentice at the time since (Darth Maul and Count Dooku died), Right Hand Man, Successor, 2nd-in-Command of All Forces and Similar to a Crown Prince to an Emperor. It is very likely that before Darth Vader becomes the Emperor one day, he still has to show respect (not necessary subservience) to older, senior commanders (possibly through Palpatine's orders) as they have more experience, competence in certain military branches and are the pillars of the Empire.
Anakin was a general during the Clone Wars but in the Imperial forces he is a war lord which is not a military rank but a civilian one which is higher than any military rank
I figured Vader and Tarkin respected each other, so Vader would listen to him and Tarkin was about the only person who could challenge Vader, apart from the Emperor. Note that in Episode Four, when Tarkin rejects the idea that Obi-Wan Kenobi being aboard the Death Star, he says something like "no, my friend, you're the only one left of that religion." That's a familiarity that says the two of them go back a ways.
Vader was in many ways outside the ranking system. Jedi were mostly this way, outside of the Clone Wars -- and then not all were leaders or ranked at all.
Vader was the empire's ultimate enforcer . When Vader showed up they knew enough to stay out of his way and to get with his program . If a commader had a problem with Vader the only person they could go to in resolving it was to the Emperor himself , there were no other person to check Vader . So all the top dogs in the Empire knew who Vader was , the guy you don't want to f*ck with . It was said that Vader was deleting military commanders like crazy until Palpatine told him to ease up on all the killings of his officers .
He was a Lord. It probably didn't mean anything on its own, it's probably like being a "nobleman". Treated with respect but with only limited authority on his own. Like when he showed up at the construction of the second Death Star and was told "we are working as hard as we can." Then Vader said, "Good, you can explain it to the Emperor", at which point he was told "we shall redouble our efforts." So Vader wasn't really in charge of anything and didn't accomplish anything until he revealed he had the Emperor's backing on this.
Control within the empire is an illusion. Vader believed he was in control, and in command, while really he was the lapdog of Palaptine. The chiefs and leaders of each system considered themselves in control, but dreaded the empire actually paying them a visit and asserting their own control. Everyone believed they were in control of their destiny and their subordinates but in the end, true control lay completely with The Emperor who ruled all with an iron fist, without them knowing they were in his grasp since before even the clone wars.
I read the comic book where Emperor Palpatine tells Darth Vader to defer to Grand Moff Tarkin’s authority while he’s on the Death Star. The reason that Vader released his Force-choke on Admiral Motti when Tarkin commanded him to do so, is because Vader respected Tarkin’s judgment. If you notice, after Tarkin died, none of the other top brass Imperial officers had a go-between who could convince Vader to spare their lives when he became angry. In the grand scheme of things, since 19 BBY, Vader was right underneath the Emperor. He only deferred to Tarkin on the Death Star battle station in 0 BBY. Once the Death Star and Tarkin were obliterated, Vader had no peers under the Emperor.
He’s the emperor’s enforcer in the empire, but had no military rank until after the destruction of the Death Star where he was made its supreme commander.
Vader was the Commander in Chief of the empire and second in command to the emperor. If Palpatine wanted someone dealt with, he called on Vader as his top enforcer. He was the emperor's fist.
The galactic empire and the sith hierarchy are different things. Vader’s role in the latter is clear but it seems like his role there drifted into the former in unintended (but tolerated) ways. I think of it like the relationship between the military and the church in a highly religious country. Or like the Pope pulling strings with a king’s military despite not technically having rank.
As a professional consultant I understand Vader all too well. I serve the owners and walk throughout companies confusing some people, respecting some, and force choking others...well, firing. Same thing
I think it's better to think of him as a prince, messing with Vader is messing with the emporer. Long video to not really answer the question, you'd get a D if this was an essay
Well as Anakin he had achieved the rank of General and as far as I can tell he retained command of the 501st. He would probably had been given the rank of Marshall if the Empire had such a rank, or an Admiral considering he spent so much time with the Imperial Navy. However since he answered to no one but the Emperor, even if he had a rank it wasn't relevant. Considering every sith that operated as the Emperor's hand was called Darth or referred to as an apprentice, I suppose his official rank was Darth, and was for all intents and purposes Crown Prince of the Galactic Empire.
I believe Vader was merely Palpatine’s enforcer. He made sure the rank and file officers at the very top did their jobs. Tarkin may have issued orders to Vader at certain points but no order that the emperor didn’t already approve.
Actually, Palpatine gave Tarkin free reign to make decisions - he did not even consult the Emperor prior to destroying Alderaan. Tarkin ranked higher than Vader, who held no rank. Palpatine respected Tarkin more than Vader, and so did everyone else.
In practice, Darth Vader position in the Empire was Head of the Human Resources from Hell. Outside of hunting Jedi and dealing with Rebels, Vader's primary job was a fix-it guy for the Empire, when a base, or project for the Empire was having cost overruns, or delays, he was sent in to fix the "problems". Think the two guys from Office Space, only instead of firing problems, he put problems in body bags. See the beginning of the Return of the Jedi, when Vader arrives on the Second Death Star. And that was Vader on a good day.
His rank is Darth by default because everyone else in the hierarchy is just going to assume that anyway given no one is going to question it in the first place.
But his position WAS questioned by some imperial officers once. That didn't end well for them. 😂 And Darth was a title of skill/power and acknowledgement of the fact you're now working for the sith. The imperials only knew he was a counter to the Jedi, but saw him as a random mercenary brown nosing their leader.
Vader was in nature, a perfect Sith. He only was subservient to Palpatine through their friendship, up until the point that He became more powerful then his Dark side master, But he never did become more powerful then Palpatine during the rule of the Empire. as we see in the end, Vader`s nature would not allow him to remain loyal to anything except for his own brand of Justice. He did slew Palpatine in the end remember. Vader had respect for Tarkin, Because Tarkin was not like the other moffs, he was a real warrior. Vader respected the brutality Tarkin`s had survived. Only those that could endure great agony, and survive, were worthy in Vaders eyes. His way of teaching others was nothing short of showing them, what it is to be utterly defeated. if they could survive Death, then they earnt Vaders Grace.
How does the author retcon the fact that at the end of Episode III, we see Palpatine, Vader & Tarkin together looking at the beginnings of the Death Star construction project?
Vader was a Emperor's Hand. He neither had nor needed rank.
He deferred to Tarkin aboard the Death Star as a courtesy since that was Tarkin's base, and Vader was merely visiting it. Aboard Vader 's own ship, one would expect Tarkin to show similar courtesy.
@@MGower4465 , I agree and had they disagreed, a force choke would've left room for a promotion, just like when the one commander screwed up and alerted the rebels to the empire's presence, if I remember right, by coming out of light speed too close to the base.
I believe Sideous had forbid him from killing Tarkin. That said, a mess up like that might have changed his mind
Well vader was told to stop killing the Moffs by the emperor. So perhaps Vader was simply keeping himself in check with tarkin also know that palpatine favoured tarkin as well. dont go killing the emperors best friend....
Also Vader didn't show much respect to the Moff on the new death star, so I am thinking, it would have not been any different with tarkin. But tarkin got results.
Well he wouldn’t have to kill someone. He could just leave them out of breath and thanking their god that Vader didn’t kill them.
"Emperor's Hand"
the one that the emperor wipes his ass with LOL
His rank was Lord. His security clearance was force choke.
Simple as that
Exactly
@@rogermoore8977 apology accepted....
@@rogermoore8977 800 😂 his credit score never fell below 1300 since he became lord Vader.
Have u seen his properties? Volcanic mansion, underwater villa 😂
I snorted reading that comment. 😂
Vader has no official rank within the Imperial military. The 2017 comics you keep citing explicitly have some of the officers noting Vader operates outside of their command structure and he answers to no one. After several failed attempts to assassinate him, Vader requests Palpatine introduce him properly to the commanding officers, where he promptly chokes some of them, so to establish that he holds more power than they ever will.
During that same introduction, Palpatine flat out says a command from Vader should be treated as a direct command from himself. Vader served as the emperor's voice and right hand, and unless other special instructions were in play, only Palpatine himself could overrule Vader's order.
This stuff is so cool, I love learning about it. I can picture it as you tell it, just awesome.
Palpatine also told him he can kill whichever officers he wishes but do not touch Tarkin cause he has need of him
wow your description is way better than the video
Palpatine: Yo Dawg! This is my boy Vader, be nice to him ok? peace yo!
*Vader starts choking everyone as soon as Palpy left the room.
That's not true. All the Republic Military forces would have become Imperial Military forces when the Republic reformed in the Galactic Empire. Anakin Skywalker held the rank of General in the Grand Army of the Republic during the clone wars. Unless he quit, retired, or was demoted, he'd at minimum still hold the rank of General, presuming no promotions in over 20 years.
It never bugged me that Vader acquiesced Tarkin’s orders. It made sense that Vader would respect Tarkin’s jurisdiction as the Death Star was his command.
It isn't just that. It was Vader could clearly see Tarkin was doing Palpatine's bidding. So, he was actually not really subject to Tarkin's authority so much as he was the Emperor's.
@@HoustonSoto plus, Tarkin was a man of principle and honor, which Vader respected. If anything, Vader hated ambitious upstarts, like all those admirals and directors whom he would Force choke, but Tarkin wasn't one of them. Plus, they already formed a bond of mutual respect during the Clone Wars.
@HoustonSoto Indeed. Anakin was a soldier after all. And he's known Tarkin a very long time.
I read the Star Wars comic where Palpatine tells Vader to defer to Tarkin on the Death Star. On top of that, “everybody needs friends”, including a dark, evil, brooding Sith Lord like Darth Vader.
Well, anakin is in there somewhere. And we all know that anakin isn't stupid.
Unless an action is going to cross with a goal that Vader wants to personally achieve. I think he's going 2. Allow delegation to carry out. He understands how the system works
His rank in the Empire was whatever Palpatine wanted it to be
about say depending on if vader angered palpatine he put him as subordinate under somebody else, as punishment to humilate him like did to as final punishment for letting death star get destroyed he had play heel to damn admiral who in new hope told rest of moffs not get to superior over death star cause rebels more better equipped than they realized, of course after that admiral fucked up who was in now in command of new super star destroyer, palaptine gave him his command and vader snapped his neck like twig.
And subject to change at a whim
@@knightingale9833 Correct
@@viewtifuljoe66 Correct
@@colindaniels945 I think it was George Lucas' decision on not palpatine
Vader was Palpatine's enforcer. Also, his eyes and ears. That's why Vader was teamed with Tarkin at the Death Star. Tarkin may have been in charge, but Vader was insurance that everything went according to plan.
Everyone knows about rank, but there's something equally important in the military, and that is billet.
Vader may "outrank" Tarkin, but if Tarkin is appointed the commander of the Death Star by someone who outranks Vader, Tarkin is in charge. Similarly, an admiral can command a fleet, but he does not command the ship he is on. The captain does.
We'll described answer. 😊
Well
The only one that out ranks Vader is the Emperor
Sidious was also grooming Padme to be Anakin's bride, knowing that the Chosen One could not be turned by his own interest, but only compassion for others-- which the Sith considered to be a weakness.
We know that Palpatine was Padme's mentor from early childhood, and so he certainly tricked her into marrying Anakin, likely telling her that she was too old for him, while at the same time talking him up; and he talked up Padme around Anakin too; then he used her to turn Anakin Sith.
If you look at it in a historical point of view. You would see that in ww2 there was a guy named himmler, he was the SS Leader, so that guy was everywhere, in the Wehrmacht he could have a say, in the Lufftwaffe he could have a say, in the Kriegsmarine he could also have a say. It probably annoyed the other generals because he was an anomaly
My thought exactly.
The thing is, Himmler had no authority over any branch of the Wehrmacht, not the Heer, or the Kriegsmarine, and most definitely not the Luftwaffe which was headed up by Hermann Goering who was himself a part of Hitler's inner circle and jealously guarded both his rank and authority. To the best of my knowledge, Himmler had no role in either the OberKommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) or the OberKommando der Heer {OKH}; the military and Army high commands respectively. Himmler's rank and authority put him in charge of the entirety of the SS, including the Waffen SS. But operationally, the Waffen SS was placed under the control of the Heer or Army. So, Himmler had little to nothing to do with actual military operations and was completely incompetent when it came to such matters. In fact, he was one of the few top German leaders who had no real prior experience and was not a veteran of WWI.
@@Riceball01 I know he didn’t have authority over those branches but he would always say to a high ranking officer or General even Herman Goering himself, “don’t you fancy yourself having an SS rank?”
The Officer will be like “no”
Himmler be like “okay I can pay you double with medical aid benefits”
Officer be like “really”
Himmler “yah, I mean they don’t pay you enough for this traumatic job of shooting people, in the SS all you have to do is to be in charge or give me information because the furhrer needs eyes and ears everywhere, and you’ll prove yourself to be of pure Aryan race”
Officer “yeah, you are right”
And than you end up with an SS officer in a submarine or flying a fighter plane or being a puppet master to a mayor in a town that the heer just took. Even in the last days of the regime there was a Herman Fegelien in the furhrer, what was he doing there, we all want to know. Every time the OKW did something the SS would pop up and say “we will take it from here”
Na he's way more like Goebles because he's just a party higher up not a mil man, he's a die hard for the ideology
@@VandodJoon Himmler had way more authority than Goebbles and while a die hard party member, he was way more interested in his own personal power than Goebbles was. Himmler was in charge of the entire SS which included the Gestapo, the SD, the Waffen SS (which was an army unto itself), & he was in charge of the concentration camps. His only real rivals were Bormann who controlled access to Hitler, & Goering who was the head of the Luftwaffe & held the title of Reichsmarshall. Goering was so powerful & influential that managed to get his own Panzer division for the Luftwaffe, not one assigned to the Luftwaffe from the Army but one that was an actual part of the Luftwaffe.
His rank was "I can kill you at a distance with a thought. FAAFO."
I went with force choke
The Star Wars Cantina skit by Eddie Izzard is a riot! I often watch it when I need a quick cheer. Nicely done! Tea or cake or death!
@@FLAMINGBABYHEAD
You still need a tray.
@@ThomasDavis-e4gcake please!
As far as i recall Vader was only below Palpatine, in everything related to the empire, officially he was the heir, even to House Palpatine XD
@0predaking0 Grew up with the original trilogy & some comics, & took in the additional 3 movies as they were released. I also came away with the same impression.
Vader was as visible as he needed to be, as well as whatever rank palpatine felt like sticking him with from mood swing to mood swing. But he seemed to represent the future of the Empire no matter what his role.
@@PorcelainPsycho maybe is a master/boss Just a ilusion ??
No matter how hi you are
@@PorcelainPsycho agreed. As the Sith apprentice he was technically number 2 but took orders from others because it
was “For the Empire”
Tarkin was the Emperors top general, and he told Vader what to do on a few occasions... shared power under the Empire, but heir to the throne after he killed the Emperor... it's the Sith way;)
I painfully miss old-school star wars 😢 but you make this very interesting😅
yep i hate reaading but i would probably rather go read the old novels now
@JasonPruett Sadly true
@@AlphonsoFrett-xz6pi: agreed, episode 9 was the only one that I didn’t watch in the theatre and I’m glad that I didn’t.
@kennethmelnychuk9737 same here
Vader was totally outside of military and civil power structure and was the #2 Sith lord and apparent heir to EP. As Sith lord, he could take command of military or civil authority to fulfill his Sith directive, but was subservient to EP and followed his directives. He could execute singularly or en mass based on his own discretion and the only one he answered to was EP.
The reason there is some confusion as to his position is because he didnt seek personal power and acted for the benefit of EP, not himself. EP didnt use him as ruler, but gave him missions. His talents would have been wasted on bureaucracy and were best used as destructive force and boogy man. As such he was not tied to a post, but free to go from mission to mission and take control as needed, which he did. His position was akin to the commander of the secret police. He could go into any organization and could imprison or execute any person for disobedience, so he could take control as needed. Though after he left, power reverted to the original structure.
As for Tarkin, DV could have executed him, but would have answered to EP for it. Tarkin was another pet of EP and had some of the privilege given to DV. Tarkin, like DV was loyal, competent and ruthless and so DV had no reason to step on his toes.
Save yourself 11 minutes and 43 seconds - Vader's "rank" was Supreme Commander
Vader had no rank. He was outside the formal rank structure of the Imperial Army/Navy. His role was to act as a representative of the Emperor, that's why he could give orders to military officers. When Uncle Senate wanted Vader to fill a specific role, then he would be seen as a type of mission specialist, still with no rank, but acting in whatever capacity Palpy deemed necessary.
@@dxdynamite47 Vader has no rank. Vader needs no rank.
im prett ysure he was supreme commander of the military
Basically, he was "The Emperor's Fixer".
@@alanjhargreaves he was Mr wolf from pulp fiction
Great job! very good video. My understanding is Vader was second in command of the Imperial military being only behind Palpatine. He was under Tarkin on the Death Star because Palpatine gave Tarkin specifically full oversight of the Death Star and Vader didnt mind receiving orders from Tarkin to much because he respected him. Vader was placed under the command of the grand general as punishment for the destruction of the death star. But since it was only punishment from Palpatine, something he knew would hurt Vaders pride it was only temporary.
He was Palpatines right hand. Above everyone else. The thing with Tarkin was only because of how much the emperor valued Tarkin. At any point, Palpatine could have allowed Vader to kill him.
Remember the hunting party issue where they developed a mutual respect for each other? Prior to that, they both wanted each other dead.
His rank was an afterthought. George didn’t think about it
Tarkin was in on the republic’s overthrow with Papatine, even before Anakin became Vader. He was one of the key players working with the emperor on the overthrow. He knew about force users, Jedi etc and was fully aware Vader was Anakin. Tarkin was just as driven as the emperor and respected Vader and his role but he didn’t fear him. He was one of the very few that Vader felt understood him and was in full alignment with their plans. Vader and emperor never felt they needed to manipulate Tarkin. Tarkin was as much in on the plan and a willing participant as they were. He was virtually the 3 member of the grand plan. He was also a brilliant leader himself. Regardless of Vader’s ranks Tarkin was a borderline friend to a Vader more than virtually anyone else alive at that time and shared the Sith philosophies about life. Vader respected him and therefore listened to him.
As an analogy to real-life history, what I think applies here is something akin to nobility not so much outranking military hierarchy, but the nobility owning the military hierarchy.
This can still be seen in many European royal houses, where the king or queen is not in charge of any government agency, but is considered to hold higher office than any government official. Historically barons, dukes, and princes (and of course: kings and emperors) didn't operate in military hierarchies; they founded military regiments and funded them.
A Moff in Star Wars is based on real-world functionaries like Persian Satraps, or the Spanish and British viceroys: Nobles who held executive power in the name of their monarch. In that sense a noble linked directly to the monarch like Vader held similar stature to a Moff. But someone like Tarkin had a clear brief on what to do with his power, while vader was more of a 'minister-without-portfolio.'
Anyway, that's my tuppence.
Palpatine was the lawfully appointed Emperor (dictator.) Vader was his strongest warlord.
i like the way you put this, i could see the same things happening with a Prince who is second to the throne and a Commander who is the highest ranking military officer. Although soldiers know the Commander is above everyone in their ranking the princes word is still far greater. VAder took that to an even greater level since he isn't some helpless prince but the most battle hardened and capable second only to Palpatine himself
Outside the rank structure, answers only to the emperor, when he decides to take charge of an operation then he is in charge, acts subserviently in certain contexts with others of similar answering-only-to-the-emperor status when he is 'in their dojo'. An analog that comes to mind are spectres from mass effect, but without the formally established institution.
I skipped Mass effect, but you nailed the rest!
Lord Vade was subservient to Grand Moff Tarkin, by orders from Emperor Palpatine. He was the one and only person he had to obey, until the death star was destroyed and Emperor Palpatine was enraged and blamed Vader for the loss. Due to this, Palpatine placed Vader under the command of General Tagge for a short time. When Tagge failed Palpatine, Vader killed the man. After that Vader answered to no one except The Empepor
@@randalcook325 At the time he ranked about the same as Grand Moff Tarkin, essentially, but only deferred to him as appropriate which would be when aboard Tarkin's command, The Death Star. If the situation was reversed Tarkin would defer to Vader if for example aboard The Executor. Tarkin was given charge of a pretty hefty command, this would demand a certain respect and deference; but not subservience. Imagine Palps reaction if his apprentice who had no official standing and leave to do so were to be openly hostile towards one who held enough clout to helm the empire's ultimate weapon. There is also the fact that at the time of A New Hope Vader's official capacity and exact role and nature much less if he would even survive the film were nebulous at best.
Incorrect, Lord Vader was equal to Grand Moffs and Grand Admirals in rank unless the Emperor (acting as Sidious) granted him full authority and requisition above them. This is one reason Rogue One doesn't work. Darth Vader is not a pawn in Tarkin's game. He is the queen in Palpatine's chess game. Stormtroopers are the pawns, which is why they are seen first in Episode 4, clearing out the rebels before Vader enters. Side note: Rogue One is also broken in lore. According to Vader, several transmissions were beamed to the consular ship, yet in Rogue One, they hand delivered it .
Disney fails. It's as almost as if they had no idea about a key character.
Absolutely not.
@@toejamandearl8110They simply don't care about established lore or facts within the episodes that came before. Thus, they just don't bother to pay attention to vital details.
@toejamandearl8110 what you are failing to see is this, yes the plans for operation Star Dust were originally beamed to Leah's ship. Then taken out of the computer system of the ship and transferred to a disk, that Leah then put into R2D2s system on the chip, as well S the message to Obi Wan. So had the ISD destroyed that escape pod the cursed rebels would not have gotten the plans.
And yes, Lord Vader took orders from Grand Moff Tarkin in New Hope. This came from Emperor Palpatine himself. He told Vader to make sure those plans were found. While it is true that Lord Vader was on the same level as Tarkin and the Grand Admirals, Admiral Motti and General Tagge were not at that level. They were below Vader and The Grand Admirals. Technically the others had not even been created yet, as this was the first movie and no tech manuals or books had been written yet. It wasn't until the mid 90's that Star Wars blew up into the giant creation it is today. Long Live The Empire.
Apparently, from episode iv, Tarkin is the only person who can directly challenge Vader without out getting Vader’s retaliation.
Vader was basically Hand of the King
"HE WASS NUMBBER ONEEEE!!!" - a fish...
Darth Vaders rank was Apprentice. Basicly he was one rank down from palpetine.
Vader was essentially Crown Prince of the Imperial Dynasty with plenipotentiary powers granted by Emperor.
Vader was the Hitman of the Empire.
In Legends he is the Supreme Commander of the Galactic Empire. In Canon it is a bit vague but the closest would be Grand General as he replaced Tagge.
As I’m watching this video. Tarkin knows Vader is Anakin
Yeah. The novels and comics make it abundantly clear he and Thrawn both knew Vader's identity.
@@thewarner2139 So does the movie Star Wars (called by some ANH). It was clear Tarkin knew Vader was once a Jedi and his connection to Obi-Wan.
@artm1973 what scene in ANH points to this?
@@chrissauter7501 In Star Wars, when the Millennium Falcon is captured and brought on the Death Star, Vader says: "I sense something... a presence I haven't felt since..."
Next we see Vader talking to Tarkin.
VADER: He is here...
TARKIN: Obi-Wan Kenobi! What makes you think so?
VADER: A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old master.
TARKIN: Surely he must be dead by now.
VADER: Don't underestimate the power of the Force.
TARKIN: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion.
A moment later after an alarm goes off and they think Kenobi is trying to free Leia.
VADER: Obi-Wan is here. The Force is with him.
The way Tarkin was familiar with Vader's connection to Obi-Wan (his old master) and that he was a former Jedi shows he knows. "You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."
Seems clear to me anyway.
@artm1973 i remember it.
Darth Vader was the right hand of the Emperor. He didn’t have a rank. He was there to make sure things got done.
He was basically a senior member of the "Sith Church". During the Crusades here on earth, religious leaders of various ranks moved up and down the "big picture" command structure as it ebbed and flowed during the Crusades. The relationship between the Catholic Church and the military/political leaders of the Crusader coalition armies were tenuous diplomatic affairs. A bishop could, for instance, demand the Crusader armies attack a large force, but whether they obeyed depended on several factors and was always a calculation of what the result would be, who would gain the most, would the military/political leaders gain wealth and power, etc.
I like to think of it like this:
His rank was similar to that of an Emperor's son, who is also well known as a short-tempered invincible assasin.
In more modern terms, if the empire is the company you work for, he is the owner's son (and also a known short-tempered invincible assassin.)
Vader was a warrior-priest. The closest thing we would have to him would be Bishop Odo. Who was a lord, warrior, priest, statesman, and advisor. He answered to the king, was a military leader, helped conquer a kingdom, put down a rebellion, tried to overthrow that kingdom. (Let all that sink in) Palpatine did not want Vader in absolute control of the his military because he knew Vader would become to powerful and betray him.
LOL, I think Vader's light sabre was more powerful than Odo's club at Hastings.
Minister of Scary Affairs.
I've always loved the idea of a Darth Vader and Moff Gideon collaboration.
Well, the last we knew Anakin Skywalker was a general in the Republic army, so I guess that’s probably as far as Vader got cause he really became more the civilian side standing next to the emperor so he’s probably a general in the imperial army.
Darth Vader Almost became the Ruler of the galaxy replacing Palatine
Technically and if I'm not mistaken it is mentioned that he technically is a Commander, like Kylo Ren in the Force Awakens. He is in charge of the 501st and the Executor Super Star Destroyer
They hinted in Dark Lord Rise of Darth Vader book which is now considered Legends that Bail Organa knew or thought that Anakin was Darth Vader especially when Vader visited him and requested to meet his Wife who was taking care of Leia at the time and Organa was nervous as hell.
I've always believed that Lord Vader operated outside the Imperial military, maintaining his prominence as not only an apprentice, but also as a true friend of Darth Sidious. He proved to be someone that Darth Sidious could trust to carry out personal matters and requests that were important to him in his rise to power. I also believe that as Lord Vader continued to prove again and again his friendship and loyalty to the dark lord and the empire, he was allowed greater privilege to operate on his own to further expand and elevate the galactic empire. The only way he could do this effectively and efficiently was operate outside of any military organization/hierarchy that would have held him back.
Darth Vader was the man period !!!
He was always under Tarkin, at least in Palpatine's and the rest of the Empire's eyes. Vader didn't fuck with Tarkin.
Vader respected tarkin' s command of the death star, tarkin was grateful.
Ever since the ending of Rogue One, I have hoped for a Darth Vader movie. My thoughts were that it NEEDS to be rated R. After watching this, it needs to be a TV series, or even a movie trilogy, but still Rated R!
In terms of rank, the titles below an emperor are:
Grand duke
Traditionally ranks below an emperor, but above a sovereign prince or sovereign duke
Archduke
A rank in the former Holy Roman Empire that was roughly equal to a king, prince-archbishop, or grand prince
Duke
The highest hereditary title in the United Kingdom, Spain, and Portugal, aside from titles held by a reigning dynasty
Prince
Often the child of the monarch, but the rank can vary
Other sovereign titles include: king, sovereign prince, and sovereign duke.
The nobility is a social class that ranks just below royalty. The five titles of the peerage, in descending order, are: marquess, earl, viscount, and baron.
One way to look at it, perhaps, if using the U.S. military as an analogy, Palpatine would be a civilian supreme commander of all forces, while Vader could be considered an honorary Space Force officer with a rank akin to General of the Armies (a rank that applies to any branch but provides command over all branches independent of their parent branch). The pay grade for such a rank would be akin to the nonexistent O-12, but in reality, it would fall outside the standard pay grade structure and instead be custom set by Congress. This would make his branch association primarily with the Imperial Navy, as it operates similarly to how the U.S. Space Force would function in commanding fleets and orbital operations. However, his unique rank and position, derived directly from Palpatine, granted him authority over all branches of the military, bypassing the traditional chain of command. In U.S. terms, this is akin to a hybrid role combining elements of a Unified Combatant Commander, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and a special presidential envoy, with the added aspect of his Sith status elevating him beyond formal military structure. This meant that, while his actions and association were heavily tied to the Imperial Navy, his authority extended across the entire Imperial military, making him effectively a supreme commander of all forces under the Emperor’s will.
From Episode V onward he was in command of the Imperial Navy which would mean he held a rank equivalent to five star admiral.
2nd in command is pretty high up there. Plus, he can nearly operate with virtual immunity, plus very low oversight or checks. 6:04 Thought vader was holding up a pizza slice.
It’s like when the CEO sends HR from corporate to your office. You know some shit is about to go down and someone is getting fired.
Vader is the Consigliere to the crime boss
Indeed. Consigliere...and Enforcer.
@@johnallen4030 He was both Consigliere and the top enforcer of Emperor Palpetine's rule.
He was Tom Haggan and Luca Brasi in one.
Astronaut Luca Brazzi
@@jestertheslackerI disagree on Hagan, as the Emperor didn't truly confide in Vader or accept his counsel. Palpatine has tried to replace Vader numerous times. He just won't die, so he keeps him as muscle and intimidation.
Vader is above all other than EP. He just respects Tarkin and was told to follow him as they need people like Tarkin to make things happen, but ultimately Vader is the eyes and ears for the emperor. Tarkin makes things happen but Vader is no.2
Vader was about Sith business, and that superseded Empire business at all times. In Tarkin and The Rise of Darth Vader, Sidious had Vader foster a relationship with Tarkin, and Tarkin was well aware of Vader's position. Put more stock in the novels as they define Vader's true rank. It can even be seen in Rogue One that Vader and Tarkin were about the Emperor's business, and there is no doubt that it is triumphant.
He wasn't originally that highly ranked in ANH he was just kind of like the hired muscle but that was retconned later when he became massively popular. It's a bit like how he couldn't sense his own daughter through the Force when she was standing right there in front of him. There wasn't really any need to hide her from him.
Exactly. Tarkin ran the show in ANH.
@@spiritualhammer392I mean he couldn't sense her in ROTJ either so that aspect isn't a retcon. It's established that to sense someone through the force on that level there needs to be an established emotional connection between the two, Vader didn't sense Luke was his son until he found out and after ESB and Luke finds out that's when they start being able to sense each other through the force.
@@Enzo012 you’re thinking boba. Vader was always meant to be one of the leaders of the empire and you can see that in anh when he kills an officer.
Dude, most of A New Hope is about Darth Vader, LOL. Even when Obi Wan and Luke have scenes, and the fall of Darth Vader is discussed, its very much implied he runs the show from a military strategy aspect. He listened to Tarkin to stop force choking the guy because he was going to kill, thats not really being obedient I would say. Vader was always the most popular character starting from A New Hope. Hes second in command to the Emperor its that simple. While Tarkin suggests miniscle things to Vader, Vader does what he wants and when he wants to do. Palpatine barely gives him any orders.
@@joshetter1066true dat. Unless your Force signature is really really high and you can't mask it like Palpatine during his time as Chancellor. But then you feel a "disturbance" in the Force, without knowing who this person is. Then, once you get a "whiff" of someone's Force and you have some emotional connnection to this person, you can sense them in particular later on.
Funny how in terms of sensing one another Force users basically work like dogs. I wonder if they also piss at lamp posts to mark their terrain.
He was a Lord, not rank and file. He did what he wanted because he was the only one Palpatine trusted.
Tarkin was one of the few originals he valued and respected. A wise man is never without council.
That's not how sith operate. Vader was a, begrudged, tool for the Emperor to play with until a stronger replacement was found. Problem is there was no one stronger than Vader, so they had to deal with each other.
He’s always reminded me as a mobster enforcer given authority the by don of the family outside the structure of a family
Vader’s rank in the empire was fundamentally different from any other person in the empire, as his relationship with Palpatine was that of master and apprentice. Yes, there where times where Vader had to answer to other officers, but in the end it was because of Vader’s position as Palpatine’s apprentice that he was put through these tasks, as Palpatine was always pushing Vader to go above and beyond as his enforcer and as his sith apprentice even if that meant showing some “tough love” and being temporary demoted at times, as in the end there was always a sort of hidden lesson to be found in it, so that Vader could grow and better manage and oversee the empire. On top of all that Vader was the only person in the empire who could understand the nature and power of the force in the same way that Palpatine could, which transcends anything else that others officers, governors, admirals or even inquisitors could bring to the table.
Why was YODA green couldnt they ave made him Indian or Pakistani ?
It was a political rank
Equal to or above Governor or grand admiral
Depending who it was
As a Jedi, under the Republic, he was a general.He held no rank as a sith. He was led to believe he was next in succession, but the Emperor tried to replace him every chance he got. So he was actually just a disposable weapon for Palpatine to use. Warlord?
I was always under the impression that Vader answered only to the emperor and was basically his supreme commander of all military personnel. He seemed to have absolute decision making ability over anyone unless the emperor’s orders stated otherwise. The whole nonsense about Tarkin I took simply as a courtesy to defer to him bc he was aboard his star destroyer. The image of the emperor and Vader standing staring out the window at the Death Star construction while Tarkin leaves them tells me he definitely had no place to stand among them in power.
Vader was and remains outside military protocol
And he behaved just like the Jedi Knights
he represented the "authority" of the Emperor
As for Grand Moff Tarkin, Vader was personally ordered by the Emperor to be an "assistant" to Tarkin under his command, in an action to recover the Death Star plans
Very good. I liked the background music very much. Anybody know what it is called? Thanks.
Lord Vader was well known throughout the Empire, and was the one figure in the Empire you did not want to meet! To say people didn't know about the Jedi order, or the power of Jedi in the early days of the Empire is not possible. Many didn't know Palpatine was a Sith Lord, but everyone knew Palpatine's enforcer was a Jedi, and feared him greatly!
Watching "New Hope" alone, without additional context, one could assume that Vader was some weird, dark enforcer on friendly terms with the highest ranking military officer we see (Tarkin), but still somehow under his command. In "Empire" Vader is completely unleashed, with only the Emperor above him - that's very clear. It becomes less clear later, with stuff like Jerjerrod and some imperial guards actually stopping Vader from seeing the Emperor - in a deleted scene, but still.
I always thought that "Rogue One" tried to bring some order into this whole Vader situation by placing Vader at the very top of Imperial hierarchy, just below the Emperor. Vader is mentioned first by Krennic in his conversation with Tarkin before the "demonstration" of Death Star's power - Krennic says he wished the Emperor or Vader to be there and Tarkin explains he wanted to save Krennic the humiliation (should the demonstration fail). That sounds like - from Tarkin's perspective - both the Emperor and Vader are more important people than himself. Later in the movie Krennic is summoned by Vader and tries to explain what happened so far and why it happened, shifting the blame on Tarkin. Vader's reaction implies that he considers both Krennic and Tarkin to be below him, like two subordinates fighting to gain the favor of their boss. Krennic goes on and tries to use Vader to get directly to the Emperor - bypassing Tarkin - and asks for confirmation that he's still in charge of the Death Star; that implies that Vader could reverse Tarkin's orders which deprived Krennic of this command.
I'm also not sure the question about Vader's rank is correct at all. "Rank" implies a position within a defined organization, military or civilian. Vader was not a member of the Imperial military nor of the civilian administration - he was outside of all that, hence he didn't have a rank as such.
After Tarkin's death and the Battle of Yavin Vader was second only to the Emperor. Palpatine said to Vader 'The fleet will be yours. The Executor will be yours'. This in the Marvel comic 'Darth Vader'. After The Emperor 'gives' Vader the fleet and the Excecutor, Vader killed General Tagge.
he'll always be Youngling Slayer Supreme in my eyes
Hey I just noticed; the inside of Vader's helmet, when it's first mounted on his head, is made of hard disk internal parts. Seriously... every part of it. cool.
You got to remember one thing about Sith and Sith alone. The master will be overthrown by the apprentice. Sidius to Plageus. Vader to Sidius. Bane's rule of two was to keep that in check since Sith would continuously kill each other for power. So Sidius would keep him on a leash.
Vader is Palpatine's only Apprentice at the time since (Darth Maul and Count Dooku died), Right Hand Man, Successor, 2nd-in-Command of All Forces and Similar to a Crown Prince to an Emperor. It is very likely that before Darth Vader becomes the Emperor one day, he still has to show respect (not necessary subservience) to older, senior commanders (possibly through Palpatine's orders) as they have more experience, competence in certain military branches and are the pillars of the Empire.
Anakin was a general during the Clone Wars but in the Imperial forces he is a war lord which is not a military rank but a civilian one which is higher than any military rank
great video, whats the song used here?
I always thought Vader was second in commend of the Empire due to him being the Emperors apprentice
@@DoomderX I thought his "title" was Lord. He's called Lord a few times; OT films, books, Marvel comic line- 1970s 1980s.
@@DavidLLambertmobile yeah what i mean Lord being Second in command of the Empire.
I figured Vader and Tarkin respected each other, so Vader would listen to him and Tarkin was about the only person who could challenge Vader, apart from the Emperor. Note that in Episode Four, when Tarkin rejects the idea that Obi-Wan Kenobi being aboard the Death Star, he says something like "no, my friend, you're the only one left of that religion." That's a familiarity that says the two of them go back a ways.
Vader was in many ways outside the ranking system. Jedi were mostly this way, outside of the Clone Wars -- and then not all were leaders or ranked at all.
Very good Video, by the end of it I wanted to learn more, is there one for luke, leia and han.
Intro is way too long for such a small channel
"This is my rank punk"
Vader was the empire's ultimate enforcer .
When Vader showed up they knew enough to stay out of his way and to get with his program .
If a commader had a problem with Vader the only person they could go to in resolving it was to the Emperor himself , there were no other person to check Vader .
So all the top dogs in the Empire knew who Vader was , the guy you don't want to f*ck with .
It was said that Vader was deleting military commanders like crazy until Palpatine told him to ease up on all the killings of his officers .
He was a Lord. It probably didn't mean anything on its own, it's probably like being a "nobleman". Treated with respect but with only limited authority on his own. Like when he showed up at the construction of the second Death Star and was told "we are working as hard as we can." Then Vader said, "Good, you can explain it to the Emperor", at which point he was told "we shall redouble our efforts." So Vader wasn't really in charge of anything and didn't accomplish anything until he revealed he had the Emperor's backing on this.
Control within the empire is an illusion. Vader believed he was in control, and in command, while really he was the lapdog of Palaptine. The chiefs and leaders of each system considered themselves in control, but dreaded the empire actually paying them a visit and asserting their own control. Everyone believed they were in control of their destiny and their subordinates but in the end, true control lay completely with The Emperor who ruled all with an iron fist, without them knowing they were in his grasp since before even the clone wars.
I read the comic book where Emperor Palpatine tells Darth Vader to defer to Grand Moff Tarkin’s authority while he’s on the Death Star. The reason that Vader released his Force-choke on Admiral Motti when Tarkin commanded him to do so, is because Vader respected Tarkin’s judgment. If you notice, after Tarkin died, none of the other top brass Imperial officers had a go-between who could convince Vader to spare their lives when he became angry. In the grand scheme of things, since 19 BBY, Vader was right underneath the Emperor. He only deferred to Tarkin on the Death Star battle station in 0 BBY. Once the Death Star and Tarkin were obliterated, Vader had no peers under the Emperor.
The man can chock you from an other star system.. his rank is what ever he want and we do what ever he says
choke*
He’s the emperor’s enforcer in the empire, but had no military rank until after the destruction of the Death Star where he was made its supreme commander.
Vader was the Commander in Chief of the empire and second in command to the emperor. If Palpatine wanted someone dealt with, he called on Vader as his top enforcer. He was the emperor's fist.
The galactic empire and the sith hierarchy are different things. Vader’s role in the latter is clear but it seems like his role there drifted into the former in unintended (but tolerated) ways. I think of it like the relationship between the military and the church in a highly religious country. Or like the Pope pulling strings with a king’s military despite not technically having rank.
As a professional consultant I understand Vader all too well. I serve the owners and walk throughout companies confusing some people, respecting some, and force choking others...well, firing. Same thing
I think it's better to think of him as a prince, messing with Vader is messing with the emporer. Long video to not really answer the question, you'd get a D if this was an essay
Well as Anakin he had achieved the rank of General and as far as I can tell he retained command of the 501st. He would probably had been given the rank of Marshall if the Empire had such a rank, or an Admiral considering he spent so much time with the Imperial Navy. However since he answered to no one but the Emperor, even if he had a rank it wasn't relevant. Considering every sith that operated as the Emperor's hand was called Darth or referred to as an apprentice, I suppose his official rank was Darth, and was for all intents and purposes Crown Prince of the Galactic Empire.
I believe Vader was merely Palpatine’s enforcer. He made sure the rank and file officers at the very top did their jobs. Tarkin may have issued orders to Vader at certain points but no order that the emperor didn’t already approve.
Actually, Palpatine gave Tarkin free reign to make decisions - he did not even consult the Emperor prior to destroying Alderaan. Tarkin ranked higher than Vader, who held no rank. Palpatine respected Tarkin more than Vader, and so did everyone else.
@@spiritualhammer392 That's because Tarkin was capable and had brains, Vader was a thug. People feared but didn't respect Vader.
In practice, Darth Vader position in the Empire was Head of the Human Resources from Hell.
Outside of hunting Jedi and dealing with Rebels, Vader's primary job was a fix-it guy for the Empire, when a base, or project for the Empire was having cost overruns, or delays, he was sent in to fix the "problems".
Think the two guys from Office Space, only instead of firing problems, he put problems in body bags.
See the beginning of the Return of the Jedi, when Vader arrives on the Second Death Star. And that was Vader on a good day.
His rank was Badass.
His rank is Darth by default because everyone else in the hierarchy is just going to assume that anyway given no one is going to question it in the first place.
But his position WAS questioned by some imperial officers once. That didn't end well for them. 😂 And Darth was a title of skill/power and acknowledgement of the fact you're now working for the sith. The imperials only knew he was a counter to the Jedi, but saw him as a random mercenary brown nosing their leader.
From what I gather, Vader is the Imperial version of Helmut Marko at Red Bull Racing. Could actually be the same person...
"Heir Apparent" I think would be a good one.
nice video essay! apprentice sith lord! made him #2!
Vader was in nature, a perfect Sith. He only was subservient to Palpatine through their friendship, up until the point that He became more powerful then his Dark side master, But he never did become more powerful then Palpatine during the rule of the Empire. as we see in the end, Vader`s nature would not allow him to remain loyal to anything except for his own brand of Justice. He did slew Palpatine in the end remember. Vader had respect for Tarkin, Because Tarkin was not like the other moffs, he was a real warrior. Vader respected the brutality Tarkin`s had survived. Only those that could endure great agony, and survive, were worthy in Vaders eyes. His way of teaching others was nothing short of showing them, what it is to be utterly defeated. if they could survive Death, then they earnt Vaders Grace.
He had no rank . He was Lord Vader
The Jawas called his rank: Oohteedee..
Translated to basic it means: The supreme baddie from our sandy ball in space.
How does the author retcon the fact that at the end of Episode III, we see Palpatine, Vader & Tarkin together looking at the beginnings of the Death Star construction project?
I love the background music😊