Yeah, it's part of why I can't watch more than a couple of episodes of Seed. I like the mobile suits, I like most of the overarching story, but between the interpersonal writing and same-face syndrome I can't. Same way I find Initial D so hard to watch. But this retrospective is fantastic! I can't wait for the other series. Oh and Stella's Japanese voice...dear god it's nails on a chalkboard.
Just to note at 43:50 - these aren't painkillers. The Boosted are wired up on extremely powerful and highly addictive stimulants, alongside a regime of other drugs and special implants to make them temporarily superior to Coordinators. They aren't just in pain, they're in potentially lethal withdrawal. The main reason the Boosted are such non-characters is that they are exactly what they say they are; Biological CPU's. The only personality traits their creators/maintainers care about are ones that make them more violent and destructive.
@@achsdu17 I do like Destiny's expansion on the Extended compared to their original backstory. It makes their existence more unsettling, especially when they go through the ruins of Lodonia. However, I think it does get out of hand trying to beat you with the tragedy of it all. I actually kinda like that the Boosted Men are unsalvageable psychopaths, with only the barest hint of humanity left in them, to the point where Clotho can't even process his enemy's will to live. It fit their role in the story and made them more menacing. The Extended in Destiny are more human but also less threatening and too inconsistent.
Honestly, I've always felt bad for them as it's clear that they're been been put through a lot, even the fact that they're not even considered pilots(human) is telling. And while yeah, they do fight and don't seem to hold the others lives in high regard, they do seem to have some kind of bond, at least enough that death with bad taste in music dead, the one with the guns mounted everyone seemed to get visible angry over it.
I actually prefer the more unknown boosted men... the show gives us just enough to imagine what they went through, why they are so reliant on drugs, attended 24/7 by doctors and are pretty much crazy, and the fact that their bare-bone personnel file shows they are treated as simple machine parts, biological CPUs, rather than living breathing humans. And in many ways, they are biological machines, stripped of most of their humanity via procedures we can only imagine...
Yes, because you also need to have 2 godly Gundams, 2 massive weapon platforms that can take out Suit armies for each of them and one ultimate bio-engineered human 😎.
I actually really liked that Kira finished his character development 3/4 of the way through the series. It let us enjoy his 'perfect' form while the crew searched for a way to end the war for good.
I feel like Kagali being Kira's sister was just a reference to Leia being Luke's sister in Star Wars as well as taking her out of the harem while explaining why they are friends but definitely not romantically interested in each other.
it also works as a subversion of sayla and char relationship. as sayla was supposed to be amuro's love interest, but because of some health issues, they decided to let her out of the story in zeta, and added beltorchika(or however you write her name).
yeah kagali was totally a romantic option for kira but they just suddenly drop the they're siblings bomb, i guess to just cut off kira x kagali and cement the athrun x kagali more
I have always assumed someone changed their mind early / mid production about Kira's romantic leads so this happened. It makes zero sense that their real father would make Kira a super coordinator and leave her a natural, or that despite being twins they look nothing alike.
*Lacus* was a diabolical mastermind in her quest for power: had her two male stooges, Kira and Arthun, clearing out all her enemies till she ends up the leader of the Plants...
How tough!? She is from zaft. How many EF countries welcome 15 y.o "minmay wannabe" ? Especially that preachy speech she do. Good heavens, i wish the writer never touch gundam or scifi anime and stick to slice of life.
17:26 I suppose it depends on what you mean by "underrated", in general Lacus has pretty consistently been one of the most popular female Gundam characters of all time, especially in Japan. Also, the dub I watched as a young-un pronounced it "Lack-us", and thus so do I.
Which dub is the Lack-cous one? The english dub that got imported to my corner of South East Asia definitely said Lack-us. Which i then learnt was some sort of Canadian dub due to hearing Matt Hill as the protagonist in another Canadian cartoon!
@@AxiamWolfe The new English dub for the HD Remaster has Lacus pronounced as "lack-cous," which is ostensibly closer to its Latin pronunciation (lacus being a Latin word). The original English dub is the "lack-us" one, and it's the one that most people watched.
The story is just very easy to relate to. 2 childhood friends finds themselves on the opposing sides of a war, and have to decide which is more important: Their friendship or their duty. Cosmic Era also has some unique technologies in the franchise
The ending really brought forth the question of "What does it take to end a war?" One would say; "If both sides wish for peace and set aside their hatred." While that sounds optimistic and preferrable, in reality it may end up with a different mindset: Warfare is nothing but a means of negotiation between states. Wars break out even when there is no hatred. Territory, resources, or interest that you are determined to own. Even ideology, religion, and pride. Wars are fought over those objectives all the time. Meaning that when those objectives are met, the war will end... That, or the war will end when the human cost outweighs the gains. Anger and hatred, are nothing than tools to tilt a war in your favour. (props to anyone who knows the reference)
Really interesting perspective. I'm glad you gave the series an even shake. It's got its share of issues, but it remains one of my favorites, and I think a lot of people attribute issues with Destiny onto SEED, never giving the original a chance. I thought I might share some of my own thoughts on some of your points. Kira isn't my favorite protagonist or my favorite SEED character, but I do appreciate what they tried to do with him. A kid finally breaking free of a world trapped between two sides and self-actualizing his own path works as both a coming of age story and a larger commentary on binary worldviews (which was very heavy in the early 2000s thanks to the war on terror). You noted that he stops being introspective after coming back in the Freedom, and I would agree and go further in saying that he kinda becomes a side character for a while. The series focuses on other people (mainly Athrun and Cagalli), and Kira mostly serves as someone for them and the rest of the cast to bounce off of. This means he himself stops being interesting for a while. I don't think the series meant for him to come off as perfect, since he eventually goes back to being conflicted at Mendel, but it really hurts that he stops being able to carry scenes or conversations effectively. It's particularly noticeable when he meets Andy again and their conversation is a very quick "I understand if you want to kill me" before Andy basically says "I don't hold a grudge." Kira had already come to peace with all the killing he had done up to that point, so he didn't really regress, but it would've been nice to see them have a real continuation of their conversation on the cycle of violence from before. Something about the Mendel reveal that I think merits some better explanation is that taken in context, Kira isn't really a Jesus figure. He's more a false idol. His father *intended* him to be one, but all he was really doing was satisfying his own desire for progress and success. Just in case anyone had any illusions, Rau lays it out straight that Kira was A) created out of gristly human experimentation, B) such an enchanting prospect that people will certainly want to do it all over again if they knew, and C) they already went through this with George Glenn (the first coordinator) and look how much violence and horror *that* caused. Kira was literally created on a factory line and is now basically a human weapon. Imagine what people will do with that knowledge. He torments Kira with this and Kira's eventual resolve isn't that his existence is somehow a blessing, but rather that it's ok for him to be alive, even if his life might be a curse. The boosted men are rather shallow characters, but the series is pretty aware of that. They're literally engineered to be psychopathic killing machines. I do actually like them because they can seriously endanger Kira and Athrun when they're not infighting and utterly dominate everyone else. It shows how depraved the war has gotten when one side's answer to nuclear power is drugged up supersoldiers and it's actually very effective. Sorry about how bad Clotho's "gamer" lines are. That's something the remaster dub did. Both the original Japanese and the Ocean dub were much more restrained. His original characterization is as a messed up kid who sees war as a game, not a internet gamer meme machine. He never once said "Noob." I'm glad you appreciate Lacus. I see a lot of people kinda shortchange her, but she's way smarter than people give her credit for. Once you know what to look for, you realize her intelligence and awareness were signaled early in the show. In the episode she's given back to ZAFT, Rau attempts to attack the Archangel during the truce, but Lacus immediately calls him on the line and threatens him if he does something dishonorable in front of the memorial representative (herself). She can slip into ditzy idol persona when she needs people's guards down, but when she needs to be forceful, she drops the act. There's so many little character moments that shine on repeated rewatches. Thanks for making this video and look forward to future stuff!
a funny retcon: Murrue's silhouette used behind Kira in the opening is replaced in the HD remaster by Flay and Lacus, both foreshadowing their status as indicated love interest. As to why it was funny, by similar interpretation Murrue was being set up to be a primary love interest along with Cagalli, before the writers did a weird one-eighty and changed the target of love interest to Flay and later Lacus.
@@palladiamorsdeus yeah.🤣 If you look at it, with Kira in the foreground, Murrue in the silhouette, and Mu La Flaga looking off in the back. Kira+Murrue (pre death fake out) Murrue+Mu & Kira+Cagalli (post Alaska) Athrun+Lacus (post war) - Avoids Destiny drama and Mu's death retcon. vs retcon Kira(Flay+Sai)/Cagalli & Lacus+Athrun (1st half) Cagalli(Athrun+Lacus)Kira ÷ (Flay+Sai-[Rau]) = After Alaska
It's usually overlooked but I like how when Creuset starts using the DRAGOON bits, it cuts back to Mu using the gunbarrels in Mobius Zero and Creuset saying something to the effect of "Anything he can do, I can do better."
Was looking forward to this video and it did not disappoint. Seed was my first Gundam as well was one of my first anime that got me into anime, and while I am acutely aware of its many flaws I still have a big soft spot for this series. For the most part I don't take its faults too seriously and just have fun, laugh at the dumb stuff, and enjoy the OTT shenanigans. It was nice to see you give the series a fair shake instead of just mercilessly tearing it down as many have done ad infinitum. also the seed/destiny ost is absolute fire.
Gundam Seed was my introduction back into Gundam. (I think I was in middle school when Seed came out) And I can see why Kira is called Kira Jesus Yamoto because well he's broken! And the drama in this show is better than Soap Operas or Twilight.
Of course he’s broken, he’s got that in common With another thing called Yamato in an anime 😂 you know certain spacebattleship, influential for a lot of anime including the original gundam
I have a soft spot for characters like Flay and Yzak: people who bought into the cause because they're young, impressionable, and eventually hurt, but also don't really understand what their cause actually _does_ until they screw up BAD. Unfortunately, Seed tends to prefer adding in characters that don't have much reason to exist over developing the ones that might genuinely be interesting, which is how we got an antagonist who wants to nuke cities because mommy glared at him that one time. Gundam Seed seems to have a lot of elements that got transferred over to Gundam 00 though, so it's probably good that Seed was seen as a success despite its flaws.
While I do think Flay and Yzak could've used more development, it's their ability to contrast with characters like Azrael that makes the whole thing go round. Azrael doesn't have a complex motivation, but he's entertaining, an important thematic point, and very interesting in how he wields power. Not everyone needs to be super nuanced in their morality. Sometimes its just as effective to show how the nuanced characters are led astray by those who aren't.
@@Joshua_N-A It's not so much that Flay is well-written per se. If _literally anything_ in Seed were written more competently, most of the story wouldn't happen. The worldbuilding begins and ends with "stupid evil people are stupid and evil", and Flay is definitely both of those things in industrial quantities, but she wouldn't have gotten far if literally a single person with a half-functioning heart or brain intervened at any point. "Why did Ramius let Flay enlist after threatening to kill a civilian hostage?" is the "why didn't Holdo tell Poe the plan" of Seed: a figure of supposed competence in a position of leadership demonstrates insanely poor character judgment that just so happens to result in an impossibly-contrived want-of-a-nail scenario that allows the entire rest of the story to happen. It's like playing 4d chess while drunk. What really mitigates a lot of the blame one can throw at Flay is that she's the one sane person in a world of insane stupidity and contrivance. She spends the entire series freaking out and panicking like a mouse in a centrifuge because that's what a rational person would be doing in her situation. But we're supposed to think Flay is in the wrong for her bad attitude towards a universe that very much started it? I think part of the problem is that the writers really needed to commit to whether coordinators were just regular everyday people who get sick a little less or Sepiroth. You can't have it both ways, but Seed tried to anyway. This irrevocably obscured how we're supposed to see Flay when it's entirely possible that she might actually have a valid point if the worldbuilding didn't suck more ass than a malfunctioning nudist space station.
@@Joshua_N-A Yes. I think she's definitely a character that grows on you with repeated rewatches. It helps that once you know where her storylines goes, you're more able to tolerate the nadirs of it and stop tuning out her later appearances where she's going through a lot of development. I think the story overdoes her "evil bitch" stint in the middle and causes people to ignore her even as she's getting better. Her trajectory makes sense, it just goes a bit too hard for a while.
@@bzoner16 originally, she was supposed to be Strike Rouge's pilot as part of Earth Alliance's or in this case, Atlantic Federation's propaganda. Granted as the G project was AF's to begin with.
Gundam SEED was definitely one of those with a little of everything. Because of it, I can't say I hated it or loved it. However, I do remember that one scene where the Freedom was introduced and it is still one of my favorites. A lot of the music in the series is what makes it memorable. I struggle a little to build model kits, but I still love the ones from the SEED era. The Unicorns are 2nd and th Wing re-releases are a 3rd. I have a nice collection of Strikes/Freedoms. HG Freedom, HG Strike Freedom, MG Freedom 2.0, PG Strike Freedom, PG Strike Rogue, and PG Perfect Strike. I have a HG Destiny and an RG Force Impulse. I have a RG Freedom 2.0 and MGEX Strike Freedom coming in the next 2 weeks and I even preordered the Destiny Impulse.
The setting, with assorted characters on a lone ship trying to reach a destination while being regularly attacked, is just so iconic and conducive to drama, I'm surprised the series hasn't done it more often.
Some things I'd like to add to your retrospective is that the writing on Lacus is nearly sublime; being introduced as an airheaded pop-singing princess (looking at you disney and music industry) and then being revealed to be a brilliant and influential spokesperson advocating for peace and holding enough sway of soldiers to allow her through multiple defences and safeguards to the hanger where The Freedom was kept alluding to The Clyne Faction a few episodes prior to the proper reveal. Flay on the other hand; I had a totally different assumption for why she was transferred over from The Archangel, not only for propaganda but given what we learn about The Blue Cosmos Pilots in Seed Destiny about them being drugged-up, surgically enhanced and trained solely to be used as human weapons, I assumed that Flay would have been handed over to Blue Cosmos for the purpose of birthing/fostering more human weapons that would use her family name to bolster their status and be fast-tracked to active status within the military. Ands Kira; he does become rather infallible after receiving The Freedom but i rule that as him finally overcoming his ptsd arc, inability to come to terms with his bodycount, and the inner conflict he feels about fighting against other Coordinators (betraying his own kind as spoke of directly during Artemis Base) and becoming more resolved to fight without taking the lives of zaft/earth forces pilots.
You mean kill count, right, Because if we go through the numbers, Kira technically slept with Flay, Cagalli and Murrue, and eventually Lacus, obviously But I totally agree
Yes yes!!! This has made my week!! I have been sick at home with COVID. This gave me a lot of laughs and I'm still just barely half way through this video. I'm loving it thus far!!
The freedom is a bastardized version of Double X, Strike, with a hint of Nu.... It very much looks like a more refined Double X. I know the main mechanical designer Kunio Okawara got a lot of crap with a lot of his designs, but he's admitted he only did what Bandai and Sunrise wanted: design stuff that would sell.
@@datharo5 get well soon. Seen there were a couple of prototype images of the Freedom that circulated on the web and it was basically almost similar to the IWSP and Impulse except with a very large Aile Striker pack. This was dismissed and the Freedom we now know was actually a rejected earlier design that got revised. (probably related as Kira got the upgrade from ZAFT not EA).
Here is a trivia related to the whole Kira's survival situation, and Astray ISNT a spin-off per se: Back in the days Sunrise was trying a "multimedia" approach with the show where it would, among other things, divide up important details like this into other media. And if you were in the environment back in the days, you would constantly be reminded through radio shows, magazines, VA interviews, staff interviews, booklets, and other peomotional materials that there are more to the story than the anime. The point is that u watch the show, and if u are curious as to how he survived, you can go get the manga tomorrow. The original Astray was always intended to be a companion piece with the anime; unlike other tie in mangas, the original Astray manga was serializing at the same time as the show. Pretty dumb idea all in all, and you can see that Sunrise never tried these multi-media projects again.
EDIT: well, serializing in Gekkan Shounen ACE magazine in 2002. It took a while before thr stories were printed on a manga dedicated to Astray instead of stuck in a magazine with a bunch of different content.
back then i just assumed he hid himself behind the cockpit chair kinda like in the first episode, with the chair taking the brunt of the explosion that entered through the broken part.
Adding to this I saw on twitter a while back that in the early days of the show the Red and Blue Astrays were planned to show up as part of the animes story, the Red frame cameos in the SD intro. It was a last minute Edict from the Director who did not want any spin off material to show up in his story. so the Red frame astray got scrubbed out of the Intro and the Only hint is a Blink and miss cameo of the Junk guilds ship the RE:Home resupplying the archangel when they go back to space.
@@donkeykong75m The cameo only existed in the remaster edition, along with a bunch of other changes made by the Director. It was never anything from early days. But I have never seen ANYTHING that even hints that Astray stuff would have any more appereance in the original show, can you share the source of this knformation, is it on an interview, or magazine? Or is it just something you have seen on the interwebz and therefore must be true
I just built and painted an EX model Moebius Zero a few weeks ago, one of my favorite MA designs ever. Honestly, SEED has some of the most awesome suit designs in the history of Gundam...
He survived thanks to Lowe Guele in the manga. Apparently, Lowe used the Gerbera Straight to divert most of the force of the blast (Don't ask; even the characters in Seed Astray says he has the "Devil's Luck") and he took Kira to the Reverend's house. So yes, the infamous moment was explained in the manga. (Seed Destiny however, yeah..... you can blame that one on a combination of a writer's strike and control being relegated to a Kira fangirl)
Been looking forward to this! These retrospectives are very enlightening for a new fan like me who jumped in with G Witch to learn where to go next, already seen 79, 8th MS, and Zeta thanks to you XD
So fun fact Matt Hill Kira's first English VA would have the voice director kick him below the belt so he could be in real pain whenever Kira had to cry.
Awesome review. I had tried finding the original dub of Rau's rant recently because I loved his maniacal raving and was curious how the new one handled it, so I'm glad that it's good.
Concerning Kiras survival another explanation I've heard is that he simply managed to climb out of the cockpit at the very last moment and was sent flying by the force of the explosion. Pick your poison I guess, but personally I think this one makes more sense. After all, it's not the first time a gundam pilot survived being at ground zero to an explosion followed by a stupidly fatal fall (I'm looking at you Hero Yuy!), but with Kira being a coordinator... I actually have an easier time buying that it's possible.
Isnt Heero also genetically modified? And trained from youth as a soldier. But either way, physics breaking ain new in gundam... hell, 18 meter tall giant bipedal robots breaks physics harder than anything.
Ocean dub does sound iffy at times but if nothing else, I think Rau's voice there fits him more than the new. It sounded sophisticated with an air of superiority which complemented his rants in the later episodes.
Gundam SEED Astray series provided some back explanation for most stuff not shown in the series. Aside from Rev Malchio, Lowe Guel from the Junk Guild has a hand in rescuing Kira. Unfortunately the series only had 2 OAV shorts existing aside from the manga and photobooks.
So there’s an actual series of Gundam Seed Astray? I’ve seen like pieces of scenes here on UA-cam, but I thought it was just some kind of promotional or teaser stuff to go along with the manga.
Yes, to add on to this, the plan was to have SEED and the Astray manga come out together to supply the whole story. This worked in Japan of course, but not everywhere else. The Astray manga got delayed and SEED had to show on its own. That's why folks complained about plot holes originally.
@@XTempestBuster Meh, I won't complain about that. After G-Saviour, Bandai focused more on their local Japanese audience with SEED & its multimedia. Western fans were lucky to get the localized show at all, thanks to SEED's succeed all across Asia.
@@XTempestBuster Astray did make it to the west eventually, after like a year after the end of Seed I think. The english Tokyopop version came out in 04, which was a year after the end of Seed in 03 Pretty dumb idea to do this, and Sunrise never did this kind of "companion piece" to anime again.
I generally don't agree with people calling Kira a Mary Sue during the last ~15 eps - he may have renewed purpose and resolve, but he screws up real badly and loses a lot (including getting heavily damaged and almost dying/getting captured while distracted by Flay in the Escape Pod). Finding out that he's a product of extreme modification can't be good for his psyche, which only Lacus stabilizes him well enough to operate. Despite his efforts to stop the war, the war basically went to the logical conclusion and almost ended with Rau winning. Hardly anywhere near perfect. Frankly, a lot of the Jesus memes were retroactively applied after Destiny, which I definitely agree was a serious problem, and why I like rewatching SEED but not Destiny.
9:41 Ayo, A Suikoden 2 Reference?!?? Man, I've been watching these Gundam retrospectives over the past weekend, but that alone is worth an instant subscription 😤👌
@@Goldfire345 the HD remaster sounds like it made some REALLY weird voice direction and pronunciation decisions... I haven't watched the finished product, but I remember being utterly turned off by Rau's lack of affect and how they pronounced Gamow. It sounds like the L4 rant got a good showing, but... I don't know. I'm skeptical.
I was waiting for this! I really enjoyed this so much! Gundam Seed is my favorite series overall, with my favorite character being Cagalli. It was really great to see how you fully enjoyed the series too!
@@Joshua_N-A I absolutely agree, they did Cagalli so wrong in Destiny. They at least gave respect to Lacus, Athrun and Kira. They could have done so much more for her but chose to let her character down. I am looking forward to the new movie to see how the continuity continues or how it’s wrapped up
My personal favorite Gundam series. I've watched the original and the remastered, old dub and new dub and in Japanese. Personally I do like the old dub better. Name pronunciations really stroke a cord with me in the new one... especially when you listen to how names are pronounced in the Japanese version. This series also has my favorite Gundam the Freedom, favorite Gundam pilot Athrun and best girl Lacus. Looking forward to hearing your opinion on Destiny... it's... ahh... yeah..............................................
"He's the worst character in Gundam named Orga" *cuts to Dearka* I see what you did there! My favorite Char clone will probably always be Harry Ord, but Rau is pretty high up there.
i love rau, he is a charismatic megalomaniac who is borderline the joker. and he steals every scene he is in. i still love the moment he goes to try and kill lacus, and says to her, something like "i love your songs, but unfortunately i have to kill you".
I generally agree with your assessment, SEED is not some unmissable classic but if you're in the mood for some fun and frenetic mech battles and aren't too turned off by the melodrama there's is enough done well to recommend it to new viewers. My own issue with SEED I think stems from Destiny. I just can't partition SEED from Destiny in my head. Destiny wasn't simply flawed or disappointing, it revealed and exacerbated all the issues implicit to SEED. Kira's one-note messianic characterization and how every character in his orbit is gradually overshadowed by him, the increasing levels of moustache-twirling evil by the setting's factions, the multiple levels of fanservice, and the excessiveness of literally everything ever. It started in SEED and definitely begins to stack up in Destiny, and it ultimately all works together to push me out of the Cosmic Era.
Yeah, as much as I love Seed (and Destiny for some parts) the villains being Saturday morning cartoon villains kinda turned me off. Sure, at first it was fun and funny ride... but the overzealous need to slaughter everyone in the worse ways possible made it really hard to sympathize with _any_ of the villains. The original Gundam was like "Yeah, these people are the villains but they're still _people_ with their own hopes and dreams that are clashing with the "good guys". But in Seed... That said, Rau Le Creuset was my favorite villain because he brought a smile to my face everytime he was on screen. He was just so over the top that I couldn't help but love the ham he brought.
@@andrewowens4421 im gonna be honest, i loved creuzete. he was the right amount of camp to pull off the insanity of his plan. above all i love the bit when he goes in to kill lacus and says something like "i love your music but i have to kill you now" or something like that. he was borderline joker-ish. and i loved it. also, he was charismatic enough to make you belive he could pull off what he did. finally, i also love the implication of his past, specially with the bits from destiny, that not only he might've been gay, but the main reason he was created was because Mu's father was a sick narcisist who genuinely wants to fck himself. which would add to his hatred of not only Mu's family, but also humanity as a whole(and the fact his genes were modified to a point that could lead to mental issues as well).
@@andrewowens4421 Saturday morning cartoon? Rwandan genocide and Bosnian genocide was happened than a decade before the show came out. If anything, the show certainly wasnt shy about showing how brutal the ethnic conflict can get. Besides... you never could sympathize with Athrun? Or Nicol's dad? Or Waltfeld? Plenty of Zaft antagonists were quite synpathetic, as do alot of Alliance personnel, despite part of a faction that used WMD.
Moustache-twirling evil? With the exception of maybe the Destiny plan, all the mad insane nutjobs in the shows arent really that far fetched. Plenty of horrific atrocities in human history, hell, Rwandan genocide happened in less than a decade before the show came out. Ain no "moustache twirling" about that. That was real, and very bloody. Seed, and hell even Destiny did a good job on portraying the type of zealots and extremists that IRL have caused some of the most bloody conflicts in history.
SEED is my first exposure to Gundam and it was aired although a bit later in mu country after Japan. It uses 0079 as base and go its own way later on. Call me crazy but, after few rewatches, Flay grew up on me. IMO, she's one of the best written character in the series. Her dynamics with Kira interest me more than Kira with Lacus. She's a spoiled child whose father never got to spend time with her properly especially during a war where everyone's busy and her mother passed away before the series proper and she's the only child. Her conversation with Natarle in the Dominion showed her character progression. She even shown concerned earlier when ask about Kira's whereabouts after the deadly duel with Athrun and doesn't want to be separated from the rest of Archangel crew in Alaska. Episode 15 of remaster is my favourite. Btw, Athrun, Lacus and Flay have something in common: their respective mothers died before the story starts and their respective fathers are higher ups of their respective governments except Cagalli because Uzumi isn't her biological and she and Kira were raised separately as protection. Kira was adopted by his uncle and his aunt, Caridad, which is Via, KnC's biological mother's younger sister. No, Via isn't a cold hearted mother as she begs Ulen, her husband and KnC's biological father to give Kira back when he took him out of her womb and put him into the artificial womb in order to create the perfect Coordinator. Another interesting thing is PLANTs, unlike Zeon is never occupied nor defeated. Technically the Coordinators already won by firing the GENESIS twice, once on the EA main fleet and another destroys the EA lunar base and with only one mass driver functioning in EA's hands, I doubt the victory is Earth's. To make matters worst, the Atlantic Federation (mighty USA stand-in. I mean, look at the Calamity, Forbidden and Raider, what are those reminded you of?) and the Eurasian Federation (Glorious mother Russia stand-in and the one who owns the fortress Artemis) are locked in a sort of Cold War situation long before the series start so EA is a fragile alliance that can shattered into pieces in any minute. Rau is an interesting one. Reason he wears the mask is who he is. He hate that face, the face of man who think he's rich enough to bribe the Grim Reaper and buy immortality. Cosmic Era questions humanity's quest for progress and its consequences. Rau is one of those consequence hence his nihilistic speech says it all about us. Btw he's also the one that able to troll Kira psychologically unlike a certain Rey. Cyclops system is no joke. EA used it TWICE. Once on the moon where Mu got the nickname Hawk of Endymion. The flaws are present and they should've keep the original Kira swing the sword into the Blitz in the remaster because that Kira is already a soldier and he just reacts accordingly to situation. Also, it's mind boggling how Cagalli, a Natural can have SEED mode. Wish the Astray girls live. Cagalli would be the commander type, sitting around planning, giving orders etc as that's how she raised in house of Attha. Ironically, the most radical anti-Coordinator nation, AF did had a Combat Coordinator program before they switch to the biological CPUs. It's long but it's my best thoughts on it. Edit: extras and probably some corrections *I get how Lowe saves Kira but it still doesn't add up, for me. Pause the scene and the Strike's phase shift armor and beam saber still active. Kira could have cut the remaining limbs, turn around the last moment and let the Aile pack and PSA absorbs the impact while said shutter activated. Also, the Aegis explosion is way too powerful as if as it's on reactor power. Either that or ZAFT found out a fail safe bomb is planted inside so it can be detonated should any pilots going rogue. *Lack of M1 Astray commander type. A commander variant is staple in Gundam so instead of Strike Rouge (Mu really need those spare parts), how about an Astray Commander? AI shouldn't be a new thing in Gundam, ALICE back in the 80's with Gundam Sentinel is an example. Not to mention Wing got Mobile Dolls. The BuCue, ZAFT would've turn it into a UGV and act as an attack dog and force multiplier for the Coordinators to make up for the lack of numbers. Cagalli would've benefit from such a prototype AI program in her unit to make up for her lack of experience and the Astray girls would've lived. Then there's educational background. Kira can build his own Gundam if he wants to and could develop an AI program for it or even remote control it. Cosmic Era got a ton of potential. If done right, it could've been the successor to UC.
the funny thing about the Cosmic Era is that I like it except for every second Kira or Lacus are on screen; then I hate it for the duration of their screen time
Regardless of the Subtitles or Localization, Kira and Lacus (Lack-us) are insufferable…! Rie Tanaka, Chantal Shrand (Ocean Group), and Stephanie Sheh (Funimation, NYAV Post) are great voice actresses who have the misfortune of voicing an insufferable dip💩! Had the melodrama been less of a focus, I wouldn’t mind.
Really nice retrospective on pointing out the good and bad of the series. I am definitely looking forward to the next one! MSIGLOO is one of my favourites (despite the really bad facial expressions).
thank youfor this! Seed was only the 2nd Gundam series that I ever saw, grabbing the Fan-Subs off of sharing sites during college. I absolutely Love Kira as a character, Idk why I do so much but He just really stuck a cord with me, the Freedom and its later upgrade are absolutely my favorites suits in all of Gundam so far ( I havent watched alot of the classics yet! I will be watching X on your recommend though!). I never thought that ANYTHING would replace the Deathscythe for me but there ya go LOL. For all of the ridiculousness of Seed Destiny and the fact that the main character just is dismissed and Athrun and Kira get center stage again, I still find it pretty enjoyable, even if its just to exist to let Kira be even more awesome! I really could care less, just give me more of him being the savior of the battlefield in his Angel of a Gundam!!
I just finished SEED yesterday and I absolutely loved it. I was enjoying myself the first half of the anime but I was completely enthralled once the second half started. While I don't think I would put it on the same level as Zeta, The Origin, or Unicorn (some of my favorites) it was so fun to watch. I'm a little scared of SEED Destiny though... I just started that one and definitely know the reputation. Wish me luck.
SEED is how I got into Gundam in the first place. Strike's beam saber and PS armor are still active when Aegis clamp on it during the duel on the island. Kira could've cut the remaining limbs. The GINN is one of the best Zaku analogues, Miguel would've survive had he brought a GINN High Manuever and a shield.
seed is ALOT of people's first encounter with gundam. it had just enough evangelion melodrama to put itself appart from other shows of its time, while also having some brutal moments that you did not see coming, including killing innocent people and children, as well as important characters.
Years after watching this show, i still remember how remarkable and truly outstanding rau lecruseit's dub va was. Especially in final episodes. Wow! That performance was jawdroppingly intense! Aside from him, lacus dub va was also so sweet and i loved the character even more.
Easily one of the best Gundam Dub VA performances and one of my personal favorites. Back in the day I had all those lines memorized due to how phenomenal the performance was!
Out of all the Gundam stuff I’ve been watching, I ruled out two from the equation: Gundam AGE since it just looked uninteresting, and SEED, since the first critique I heard about it was from Woolie on the Super Best Friendscast roasting the series for its terribleness. It also just looks super unappealing to me in the visuals department. I get that it’s their first time using digital animation but it still looks… ehhh. Here’s hoping you’ll notice this TED talk of mine and that I’ll pick up on some positive things from your video! Because I haven’t started it yet. Thanks for continuing this retrospective!
having watched all of gundam AGE, honestly the most salvagable aspect of the series is the second era with the second protag; has a decent story, good characters, the AGE-2 is the best suit in that series. it's good enough that that part of the series is the only part that was repackaged as a full movie
@@robertfaulkkner5508 AGE 2 is the best arc but that's because AGE 1 story was old hat & boring and AGE 3 being downright absurd & straight up ruined some characters.
By the way Kira getting out of the strike during his battle with the Aegis is explained in the Gundam Seed of astray manga and the Gundam Seed manga adaptation, though they are each explained slightly differently. Either the protagonist of Gundam seed astray deflected most of the blast using his own gundam's weapon and then pulled Kira from the cockpit before the seat and controls started burning or Kira crawled out through the damaged cockpit door and got to a far enough distance where the explosion only pushed him back. In either case he's brought two Reverend malkio by the protagonist of Gundam seed astray and he takes him to the plants from there.
Nice retrospective! I'm a little sad though that you didn't talk too much about the music from the series -which I think is stellar and really elevates it overall.
In terms of animation SEED really looks weird, due to it being the first Gundam show digitally colored, there's some impressive sequences, but there's also tons of recycled shots/animations, even moreso than in previous shows. Not to mention that Hisashi Hirai's artstyle looks worse than it did in Infinite Ryvius, don't know if his designs look better in Fafner. It's kind of interesting how SEED kind of started a some sort of golden age for Sunrise mecha shows in the 2000s, at least commercially and in popularity, alongside Code Geass and Gundam 00
It doesn't look better in Fafner. I think it looks better in Majestic Prince, maybe? It's pretty much same character syndrome for all of his series anyways.
@@Iridium-77-g I remembered that Hirai did the character designs for the anime s-CRY-ed, that came a year before SEED and it was also made by Sunrise and was one their first anime colored digitally. I've seen some clips and the coloring looks similar to SEED, though there're a couple of characters that looked very different from what Hirai usually draws
Seed seemed so controversial at the time but, now AGE, Iron Blood Orphans and maybe Witch of Mercury might be even more conversational depending on who you ask, things keep evolving I suppose. But no matter how much changes...Kira still annoys me at times, most of that's not till Destiny though. Wait...the new dub really calls Lacus like...Lacoos or something? WTF? BUT...with Flay I mean...at least she is not Katejina I guess.
AGE was just uninteresting and no one cared for it. It might be the worse entry of the franchise imo at least. Between IBO and WFM, the latter is so far more polarizing due to its premise and style for some gundam fans who came from watching IBO .
I'd say AGE was pretty interesting after the first 10 or so episodes but I'd still put it in the bottom half of gundam series for me because it just falls apart in its last act, even its middle act is filled with characters that go nowhere.
AGE should've been 3 25-episode seasons. Flay grew up on me after several rewatches. GSD is so problematic that fanfics fixing the story pop up like mushrooms after the rain.
After years and years of people bashing it like some kind of hobby by overexaggerating its flaws... I was kinda apprensive but still open-minded to this review. VERY glad you proved my fears wrong and kinda biased, its nice to see there are people that while not enjoying the same things I do, wont go out of their way to shit on it and me as a fan of it just for the heck of it or whatever reason :D
I find it hilarious that you've been mispronouncing Lacus' name THE WHOLE TIME and the "improper" pronunciation you mentioned was actually the RIGHT pronunciation.
yeah I had no idea what the gundam fandom considers the right pronunciation because both dubs pronounce her name in completely different ways. Ive run into this before where shows have 2 dubs and it just devolves into both sides telling me I'm wrong but I let it slide cause it baits interaction on the video hahahah
Funny you mention how good the animation got during Kira and Athrun's final battle with one other. In the original release, all the most savage bits of Strike and Aegis tearing strips out of each other were simply still frames. The special edition movies actually animated those scenes and then the remaster used those (far more impactful) cuts.
I was never able to get into SEED, I remember all of my friends being head over heels for it and I legit tried to see why. All I could really like was the suit designs, they were neat. Thanks for the video though! Keep up the good work!
Barring the Strike and Freedom, the Buster Gundam is still my absolute favorite of the (non-Destiny) bunch. It just fulfills the TF2 Engineer philosophy to a T: The Solution Is A Gun And If That Don't Work, *Use More Gun* .
Didnt miss anything, I am pretty sure thats when Sunrise decided to continue with the Cosmic era Gundam timeline instead of letting it be another "one and done" Gundam AU show. So things had to be retooled.
To me it feels like the visual quality of the remaster is a bit all over the place, most of the budget went to the fan service. As for the audio, the quality may be better, but some lines were changed, which has an effect on the characters. For example, in the remaster when Kira finds that the Strike is only equipped with knives at the beginning, he is like "here we go!" while charges in. Originally he was in shock, like "this is all?!" If you want to see the original, I think your best bet is torrent. Also, after Destiny, there are two things you absolutely need to watch: Stargazer, which is a spinoff OVA series, and Cross Ange, which is a... tangent? It was made by the people behind Seed and is also kind of a parody of it. The cast includes an abrasive tomboy princess with short blonde hair, a bitch with long red hair, a guy who is immune to explosions and a blonde psycho behind all of it. And a lot of Seed references. And even more fan service.
Kira Yamato fights people. He kills some people. Then he cries over it. He does this repeatedly until he gets an OP mobile suit that lets him destroy enemy weapons without killing the pilots. There, I just summarized the entirety of SEED.
This one came so close to finally getting rid of space magic. _Technology_ can stand on it's own, _it_ can be the source of any of the powers or capabilities they want to depict. The idea of the coordinators was _perfect._ it took a supernatural aspect and made it a technological one. But they _had_ to throw newtypes back into it.
36:01 that's actually a spoiler for Gundam Seed Astray The Junk Guild, the main focus group were actually Watching the Aegis vs Strike Battle and the Leader/Pilot of the Original Astray, Lowe Guele instantly rushed in to the remains of the Strike and tried to get him out of there as soon as possible and gave him to the Archangel Crew
As someone who has watched both some Gundam series, as well as Code Geass in the same year, I can only come to one conclusion… Man, Seed is just Beta Code Geass.
53:50 legit saying re dub is fantastic hurts my soul when hearing this moment, like their really is no comparison coming from someone that watched his seed box see so much the dvds no longer work
Gundam X they were never on either side so they weren't splitting off. Wing having thr Gundam Pilots bounce around after they were ordered to stand down by Dr. 0, and the re-founding of the Sanc Kingdom, and the Peacemillion kinda work for that. Honestly Aeug would ALMOST count as this, espescially when the Gundam Team steal the Nahel Argama in ZZ but not quite.
There definitely isn’t a website called wcostream with all the gundam animes new and old as well as most other shows. They even have a mashed up dub version of destiny HD which is actually surprisingly good if you are into that kinda thing.
Technically PLANT is a one-party state, even if the politicians are elected by ppl... but thats more due to its so young. At the beginning of Seed its been a country for grand total of 11 months... so the political cracks and different opinions havent created multiple parties yet. The US for example didnt have political parties until years after it was formed. Plant is kinda in the similar state
despite its issues seeds still one of my favorites in the series, and without seed and even seed destiny id likley have never gotten into gundam or even the mecha genre in general. also gundam seed astray actually fills in some plot holes for seed (which shouldve just been in the show but whatever) like how kira survived his fight with atherun, and its just in general better written than seed.
It’s been almost 20 years since I’ve watched Seed and Destiny. I remember the key bits but wanted a refresher before seeing freedom next month so I appreciate the videos.
@@Retcon404 I guess they figured having both survive would be TOO nice for Kira. Honestly shocked the remaster didn't stick her in the background as a nonspeaking role.
When i started watching Seed i had literally 0 Expectations, it was just the thing i could watch at that time (thanks C virus) But i ended having a Blast, personally i have no problem with reused animation, and the music..I knew Seed had Bangers as Op/Ed but the OST is so criminally good. Easily the most fun i've had watching a full gundam series (40+) Watched the entire thing in 1 week, including Destiny and Stargazer and honestly? Seed gets too much hate and it does NOT deserve it As always, thanks for the video, really looking forward to MS Igloo
SEED was actually my first Gundam series. I still think it has a lot of good ideas, a lot of good aesthetic designs. It is a weird show though, that often just feels... awkward. My favorite thing about SEED (only slightly above the Gundam fighting game adaptation of the series I owned as a child for my GBA) was sparking a lifelong love of all the Gundam series. Even the less good ones.
"Kira Yamato seemed like all his other friends." Yeah, he looked like all his other friends too.
giant googly eyes intensify
Same-face syndrome was strong in Seed.
Yeah, it's part of why I can't watch more than a couple of episodes of Seed. I like the mobile suits, I like most of the overarching story, but between the interpersonal writing and same-face syndrome I can't. Same way I find Initial D so hard to watch. But this retrospective is fantastic! I can't wait for the other series. Oh and Stella's Japanese voice...dear god it's nails on a chalkboard.
@@andrewowens4421 ...and just about anything drawn by the same artist.
_Cross Ange has entered the chat._
_Majestic Prince has entered the chat._
@@killerb255Both of those can die in a fire.
I love the fact that alien fossils was discovered so alien life was confirmed is just a random footnote.
I remember thinking that they were really going to go somewhere with that as a kid. Nope
And then 00 follows up with actual aliens
@@bebopobama4686 sort of? Haha
Didn't it turn out that the fossil was fake?
@@DeepStone-6 No, you might be misremembering a scene where I think Durandal shows off a recreation he owned of the actual fossil.
Just to note at 43:50 - these aren't painkillers. The Boosted are wired up on extremely powerful and highly addictive stimulants, alongside a regime of other drugs and special implants to make them temporarily superior to Coordinators. They aren't just in pain, they're in potentially lethal withdrawal. The main reason the Boosted are such non-characters is that they are exactly what they say they are; Biological CPU's. The only personality traits their creators/maintainers care about are ones that make them more violent and destructive.
This is something that Destiny does do right and explains the background of these chatacters.
@@achsdu17 I do like Destiny's expansion on the Extended compared to their original backstory. It makes their existence more unsettling, especially when they go through the ruins of Lodonia. However, I think it does get out of hand trying to beat you with the tragedy of it all. I actually kinda like that the Boosted Men are unsalvageable psychopaths, with only the barest hint of humanity left in them, to the point where Clotho can't even process his enemy's will to live. It fit their role in the story and made them more menacing. The Extended in Destiny are more human but also less threatening and too inconsistent.
Honestly, I've always felt bad for them as it's clear that they're been been put through a lot, even the fact that they're not even considered pilots(human) is telling. And while yeah, they do fight and don't seem to hold the others lives in high regard, they do seem to have some kind of bond, at least enough that death with bad taste in music dead, the one with the guns mounted everyone seemed to get visible angry over it.
I actually prefer the more unknown boosted men... the show gives us just enough to imagine what they went through, why they are so reliant on drugs, attended 24/7 by doctors and are pretty much crazy, and the fact that their bare-bone personnel file shows they are treated as simple machine parts, biological CPUs, rather than living breathing humans.
And in many ways, they are biological machines, stripped of most of their humanity via procedures we can only imagine...
dont do 420 kids
As a wise man once said: "It takes more than pop idol, a twink, and 3 ships to end a war"
Obviously you need at least 2 twinks to end a war
Yes, because you also need to have 2 godly Gundams, 2 massive weapon platforms that can take out Suit armies for each of them and one ultimate bio-engineered human 😎.
don't forget atleast one loyal soldier turning against the leader
You guys forget jesus
They got jesus
What about a Death Star and an Imperium of Man?
I actually really liked that Kira finished his character development 3/4 of the way through the series. It let us enjoy his 'perfect' form while the crew searched for a way to end the war for good.
The jesus420 arc™
Me too! It also lets you focus on thw rest of the cast, wich had lots of stuff going for them too!
Yeah his clearity for fighting the war is nice
I feel like Kagali being Kira's sister was just a reference to Leia being Luke's sister in Star Wars as well as taking her out of the harem while explaining why they are friends but definitely not romantically interested in each other.
it also works as a subversion of sayla and char relationship. as sayla was supposed to be amuro's love interest, but because of some health issues, they decided to let her out of the story in zeta, and added beltorchika(or however you write her name).
If it weren't for the twin angle, I could definitely see Kira and Cagalli as a couple.
yeah kagali was totally a romantic option for kira but they just suddenly drop the they're siblings bomb, i guess to just cut off kira x kagali and cement the athrun x kagali more
I have always assumed someone changed their mind early / mid production about Kira's romantic leads so this happened. It makes zero sense that their real father would make Kira a super coordinator and leave her a natural, or that despite being twins they look nothing alike.
@@sortedevaras twins don't have to be identical. I went to school with triplets who didn't look anything alike
54:03 "OH MY GOD ENOUGH ALREADY!!!"
Love the delivery of that line! Really sells how much Mu has had enough of Rau's BS at that point.
Mu was probably the best character
I like the Ocean dub line "Cut the crap, you crackpot!" a little more.
Like a parent disciplining his son. Or is it the other way around? 😁🤣
It was a real treat to have devall back for the dub movie
*Lacus* was a diabolical mastermind in her quest for power: had her two male stooges, Kira and Arthun, clearing out all her enemies till she ends up the leader of the Plants...
How tough!? She is from zaft. How many EF countries welcome 15 y.o "minmay wannabe" ?
Especially that preachy speech she do. Good heavens, i wish the writer never touch gundam or scifi anime and stick to slice of life.
17:26 I suppose it depends on what you mean by "underrated", in general Lacus has pretty consistently been one of the most popular female Gundam characters of all time, especially in Japan.
Also, the dub I watched as a young-un pronounced it "Lack-us", and thus so do I.
Hearing La-Koose for the first time in this video threw me off for a second. lol
@@CyberSlayer128 lol. Its making me itch. I'm trying to get thru this. lol.
Which dub is the Lack-cous one? The english dub that got imported to my corner of South East Asia definitely said Lack-us.
Which i then learnt was some sort of Canadian dub due to hearing Matt Hill as the protagonist in another Canadian cartoon!
@@AxiamWolfe Yeah I've never heard this pronunciation.
@@AxiamWolfe The new English dub for the HD Remaster has Lacus pronounced as "lack-cous," which is ostensibly closer to its Latin pronunciation (lacus being a Latin word). The original English dub is the "lack-us" one, and it's the one that most people watched.
The story is just very easy to relate to. 2 childhood friends finds themselves on the opposing sides of a war, and have to decide which is more important: Their friendship or their duty. Cosmic Era also has some unique technologies in the franchise
The astray spin off shows how Kira Jesus Yamato got out of the Strike via the slice/window Athrun made
I actually really enjoyed Astray... until the giant katana and power loader stupidity.
@@palladiamorsdeus Its probably the one series I keep forgetting to watch in the franchise.
@@palladiamorsdeus I personally don't like Astray, SOLELY because of Lowe.
Why@@AnonEcho98
@@Lameperson745 Well, mainly 'cause of the stuff I saw in the manga, pulling off some BS super robot stuff when he's literally just some junk-rat
The ending really brought forth the question of "What does it take to end a war?"
One would say; "If both sides wish for peace and set aside their hatred."
While that sounds optimistic and preferrable, in reality it may end up with a different mindset:
Warfare is nothing but a means of negotiation between states.
Wars break out even when there is no hatred.
Territory, resources, or interest that you are determined to own.
Even ideology, religion, and pride.
Wars are fought over those objectives all the time.
Meaning that when those objectives are met, the war will end...
That, or the war will end when the human cost outweighs the gains.
Anger and hatred, are nothing than tools to tilt a war in your favour.
(props to anyone who knows the reference)
Trust is vital in a peaceful world *But that will never happen*
Solo Wing Pixy
Really interesting perspective. I'm glad you gave the series an even shake. It's got its share of issues, but it remains one of my favorites, and I think a lot of people attribute issues with Destiny onto SEED, never giving the original a chance. I thought I might share some of my own thoughts on some of your points.
Kira isn't my favorite protagonist or my favorite SEED character, but I do appreciate what they tried to do with him. A kid finally breaking free of a world trapped between two sides and self-actualizing his own path works as both a coming of age story and a larger commentary on binary worldviews (which was very heavy in the early 2000s thanks to the war on terror). You noted that he stops being introspective after coming back in the Freedom, and I would agree and go further in saying that he kinda becomes a side character for a while. The series focuses on other people (mainly Athrun and Cagalli), and Kira mostly serves as someone for them and the rest of the cast to bounce off of. This means he himself stops being interesting for a while. I don't think the series meant for him to come off as perfect, since he eventually goes back to being conflicted at Mendel, but it really hurts that he stops being able to carry scenes or conversations effectively. It's particularly noticeable when he meets Andy again and their conversation is a very quick "I understand if you want to kill me" before Andy basically says "I don't hold a grudge." Kira had already come to peace with all the killing he had done up to that point, so he didn't really regress, but it would've been nice to see them have a real continuation of their conversation on the cycle of violence from before.
Something about the Mendel reveal that I think merits some better explanation is that taken in context, Kira isn't really a Jesus figure. He's more a false idol. His father *intended* him to be one, but all he was really doing was satisfying his own desire for progress and success. Just in case anyone had any illusions, Rau lays it out straight that Kira was A) created out of gristly human experimentation, B) such an enchanting prospect that people will certainly want to do it all over again if they knew, and C) they already went through this with George Glenn (the first coordinator) and look how much violence and horror *that* caused. Kira was literally created on a factory line and is now basically a human weapon. Imagine what people will do with that knowledge. He torments Kira with this and Kira's eventual resolve isn't that his existence is somehow a blessing, but rather that it's ok for him to be alive, even if his life might be a curse.
The boosted men are rather shallow characters, but the series is pretty aware of that. They're literally engineered to be psychopathic killing machines. I do actually like them because they can seriously endanger Kira and Athrun when they're not infighting and utterly dominate everyone else. It shows how depraved the war has gotten when one side's answer to nuclear power is drugged up supersoldiers and it's actually very effective. Sorry about how bad Clotho's "gamer" lines are. That's something the remaster dub did. Both the original Japanese and the Ocean dub were much more restrained. His original characterization is as a messed up kid who sees war as a game, not a internet gamer meme machine. He never once said "Noob."
I'm glad you appreciate Lacus. I see a lot of people kinda shortchange her, but she's way smarter than people give her credit for. Once you know what to look for, you realize her intelligence and awareness were signaled early in the show. In the episode she's given back to ZAFT, Rau attempts to attack the Archangel during the truce, but Lacus immediately calls him on the line and threatens him if he does something dishonorable in front of the memorial representative (herself). She can slip into ditzy idol persona when she needs people's guards down, but when she needs to be forceful, she drops the act. There's so many little character moments that shine on repeated rewatches.
Thanks for making this video and look forward to future stuff!
Great perspective here too.
a funny retcon: Murrue's silhouette used behind Kira in the opening is replaced in the HD remaster by Flay and Lacus, both foreshadowing their status as indicated love interest.
As to why it was funny, by similar interpretation Murrue was being set up to be a primary love interest along with Cagalli, before the writers did a weird one-eighty and changed the target of love interest to Flay and later Lacus.
That explains why Lacus just came screaming in out of left field. That always seemed so abrupt to me.
@@palladiamorsdeus yeah.🤣
If you look at it, with Kira in the foreground, Murrue in the silhouette, and Mu La Flaga looking off in the back.
Kira+Murrue (pre death fake out)
Murrue+Mu & Kira+Cagalli (post Alaska)
Athrun+Lacus (post war)
- Avoids Destiny drama and Mu's death retcon.
vs retcon
Kira(Flay+Sai)/Cagalli & Lacus+Athrun (1st half)
Cagalli(Athrun+Lacus)Kira ÷ (Flay+Sai-[Rau]) = After Alaska
Spoiler: Kira slept with Murrue as well as Calgali, Mariella, etc...they all wanted that super coordinator juice...
@@charzanboo9940 Guessing this happened in the manga???
I personally hate Flay, I dislike girls like her. Manipulate types
It's usually overlooked but I like how when Creuset starts using the DRAGOON bits, it cuts back to Mu using the gunbarrels in Mobius Zero and Creuset saying something to the effect of "Anything he can do, I can do better."
🤣🤣
Also
the Providence was WAYY more technologically advanced then a mobius zero.
I’ve been binging all the retrospectives, so excited to watch this since SEED was my first series. Thank you for these!!
Was looking forward to this video and it did not disappoint. Seed was my first Gundam as well was one of my first anime that got me into anime, and while I am acutely aware of its many flaws I still have a big soft spot for this series. For the most part I don't take its faults too seriously and just have fun, laugh at the dumb stuff, and enjoy the OTT shenanigans. It was nice to see you give the series a fair shake instead of just mercilessly tearing it down as many have done ad infinitum. also the seed/destiny ost is absolute fire.
Gundam Seed was my introduction back into Gundam. (I think I was in middle school when Seed came out) And I can see why Kira is called Kira Jesus Yamoto because well he's broken! And the drama in this show is better than Soap Operas or Twilight.
Of course he’s broken, he’s got that in common With another thing called Yamato in an anime 😂 you know certain spacebattleship, influential for a lot of anime including the original gundam
Having the Toonami promo as the intro was fucking beautiful 🤩 🙌
Remember Easy Muffin playing 30 seconds before the show started every Saturday? Shit was so gloomy and chilled out.
@@Horsed_Beef If I had a time machine it would be wasted on me going back to watch Toonami with commercials in 1999.
Peter Cullin could make putting cereal together sound amazing
Almost made it feel like it was going to be a Good series for a second 'almost'
As a Canadian I never saw these during airing but yeah, it's a bit cheesy but it's also really cool.
I have a soft spot for characters like Flay and Yzak: people who bought into the cause because they're young, impressionable, and eventually hurt, but also don't really understand what their cause actually _does_ until they screw up BAD. Unfortunately, Seed tends to prefer adding in characters that don't have much reason to exist over developing the ones that might genuinely be interesting, which is how we got an antagonist who wants to nuke cities because mommy glared at him that one time.
Gundam Seed seems to have a lot of elements that got transferred over to Gundam 00 though, so it's probably good that Seed was seen as a success despite its flaws.
While I do think Flay and Yzak could've used more development, it's their ability to contrast with characters like Azrael that makes the whole thing go round. Azrael doesn't have a complex motivation, but he's entertaining, an important thematic point, and very interesting in how he wields power. Not everyone needs to be super nuanced in their morality. Sometimes its just as effective to show how the nuanced characters are led astray by those who aren't.
The more I rewatch SEED, the more Flay grew up on me. Maybe because how she's written??
@@Joshua_N-A It's not so much that Flay is well-written per se. If _literally anything_ in Seed were written more competently, most of the story wouldn't happen. The worldbuilding begins and ends with "stupid evil people are stupid and evil", and Flay is definitely both of those things in industrial quantities, but she wouldn't have gotten far if literally a single person with a half-functioning heart or brain intervened at any point. "Why did Ramius let Flay enlist after threatening to kill a civilian hostage?" is the "why didn't Holdo tell Poe the plan" of Seed: a figure of supposed competence in a position of leadership demonstrates insanely poor character judgment that just so happens to result in an impossibly-contrived want-of-a-nail scenario that allows the entire rest of the story to happen. It's like playing 4d chess while drunk.
What really mitigates a lot of the blame one can throw at Flay is that she's the one sane person in a world of insane stupidity and contrivance. She spends the entire series freaking out and panicking like a mouse in a centrifuge because that's what a rational person would be doing in her situation. But we're supposed to think Flay is in the wrong for her bad attitude towards a universe that very much started it? I think part of the problem is that the writers really needed to commit to whether coordinators were just regular everyday people who get sick a little less or Sepiroth. You can't have it both ways, but Seed tried to anyway. This irrevocably obscured how we're supposed to see Flay when it's entirely possible that she might actually have a valid point if the worldbuilding didn't suck more ass than a malfunctioning nudist space station.
@@Joshua_N-A Yes. I think she's definitely a character that grows on you with repeated rewatches. It helps that once you know where her storylines goes, you're more able to tolerate the nadirs of it and stop tuning out her later appearances where she's going through a lot of development. I think the story overdoes her "evil bitch" stint in the middle and causes people to ignore her even as she's getting better. Her trajectory makes sense, it just goes a bit too hard for a while.
@@bzoner16 originally, she was supposed to be Strike Rouge's pilot as part of Earth Alliance's or in this case, Atlantic Federation's propaganda. Granted as the G project was AF's to begin with.
Gundam SEED was definitely one of those with a little of everything. Because of it, I can't say I hated it or loved it. However, I do remember that one scene where the Freedom was introduced and it is still one of my favorites. A lot of the music in the series is what makes it memorable.
I struggle a little to build model kits, but I still love the ones from the SEED era. The Unicorns are 2nd and th Wing re-releases are a 3rd. I have a nice collection of Strikes/Freedoms. HG Freedom, HG Strike Freedom, MG Freedom 2.0, PG Strike Freedom, PG Strike Rogue, and PG Perfect Strike. I have a HG Destiny and an RG Force Impulse. I have a RG Freedom 2.0 and MGEX Strike Freedom coming in the next 2 weeks and I even preordered the Destiny Impulse.
Love or hate the series, the mechs are just... 💖
The setting, with assorted characters on a lone ship trying to reach a destination while being regularly attacked, is just so iconic and conducive to drama, I'm surprised the series hasn't done it more often.
Iron Blooded Orphans S1
I can't tell if you're taking the piss or not.
I think you just described the first few episodes of the original Mobile Suit Gundam from 1979.
space runaway ideon
Some things I'd like to add to your retrospective is that the writing on Lacus is nearly sublime; being introduced as an airheaded pop-singing princess (looking at you disney and music industry) and then being revealed to be a brilliant and influential spokesperson advocating for peace and holding enough sway of soldiers to allow her through multiple defences and safeguards to the hanger where The Freedom was kept alluding to The Clyne Faction a few episodes prior to the proper reveal.
Flay on the other hand; I had a totally different assumption for why she was transferred over from The Archangel, not only for propaganda but given what we learn about The Blue Cosmos Pilots in Seed Destiny about them being drugged-up, surgically enhanced and trained solely to be used as human weapons, I assumed that Flay would have been handed over to Blue Cosmos for the purpose of birthing/fostering more human weapons that would use her family name to bolster their status and be fast-tracked to active status within the military.
Ands Kira; he does become rather infallible after receiving The Freedom but i rule that as him finally overcoming his ptsd arc, inability to come to terms with his bodycount, and the inner conflict he feels about fighting against other Coordinators (betraying his own kind as spoke of directly during Artemis Base) and becoming more resolved to fight without taking the lives of zaft/earth forces pilots.
You mean kill count, right,
Because if we go through the numbers, Kira technically slept with Flay, Cagalli and Murrue, and eventually Lacus, obviously
But I totally agree
Yes yes!!! This has made my week!! I have been sick at home with COVID. This gave me a lot of laughs and I'm still just barely half way through this video. I'm loving it thus far!!
The freedom is a bastardized version of Double X, Strike, with a hint of Nu.... It very much looks like a more refined Double X. I know the main mechanical designer Kunio Okawara got a lot of crap with a lot of his designs, but he's admitted he only did what Bandai and Sunrise wanted: design stuff that would sell.
Feel better soon.
@@datharo5 get well soon. Seen there were a couple of prototype images of the Freedom that circulated on the web and it was basically almost similar to the IWSP and Impulse except with a very large Aile Striker pack. This was dismissed and the Freedom we now know was actually a rejected earlier design that got revised. (probably related as Kira got the upgrade from ZAFT not EA).
Ahh Igloo, my favorite part of the UC timeline!
Ahh Ideon, the most "showed up and contributed nothing" series in SRW F Final and Alpha 3
Of course the voice actor for Rau Le Creuset is phenomenal.
He's the voice of Griffith!!!
Kevin T Collins
Here is a trivia related to the whole Kira's survival situation, and Astray ISNT a spin-off per se:
Back in the days Sunrise was trying a "multimedia" approach with the show where it would, among other things, divide up important details like this into other media. And if you were in the environment back in the days, you would constantly be reminded through radio shows, magazines, VA interviews, staff interviews, booklets, and other peomotional materials that there are more to the story than the anime.
The point is that u watch the show, and if u are curious as to how he survived, you can go get the manga tomorrow. The original Astray was always intended to be a companion piece with the anime; unlike other tie in mangas, the original Astray manga was serializing at the same time as the show.
Pretty dumb idea all in all, and you can see that Sunrise never tried these multi-media projects again.
EDIT: well, serializing in Gekkan Shounen ACE magazine in 2002. It took a while before thr stories were printed on a manga dedicated to Astray instead of stuck in a magazine with a bunch of different content.
back then i just assumed he hid himself behind the cockpit chair kinda like in the first episode, with the chair taking the brunt of the explosion that entered through the broken part.
Adding to this I saw on twitter a while back that in the early days of the show the Red and Blue Astrays were planned to show up as part of the animes story, the Red frame cameos in the SD intro. It was a last minute Edict from the Director who did not want any spin off material to show up in his story. so the Red frame astray got scrubbed out of the Intro and the Only hint is a Blink and miss cameo of the Junk guilds ship the RE:Home resupplying the archangel when they go back to space.
@@donkeykong75m The cameo only existed in the remaster edition, along with a bunch of other changes made by the Director. It was never anything from early days.
But I have never seen ANYTHING that even hints that Astray stuff would have any more appereance in the original show, can you share the source of this knformation, is it on an interview, or magazine? Or is it just something you have seen on the interwebz and therefore must be true
I can't unhear Optimus prime explaining who Kira is
Lacus Clyne is basically: Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss
She’s an angel.
well yeah i agree, that's what angel does in the bible right ?@@DarthBigBen
@@vinchazz Yes.
She's Relena Peacecraft 2.0
I just built and painted an EX model Moebius Zero a few weeks ago, one of my favorite MA designs ever. Honestly, SEED has some of the most awesome suit designs in the history of Gundam...
He survived thanks to Lowe Guele in the manga. Apparently, Lowe used the Gerbera Straight to divert most of the force of the blast (Don't ask; even the characters in Seed Astray says he has the "Devil's Luck") and he took Kira to the Reverend's house. So yes, the infamous moment was explained in the manga. (Seed Destiny however, yeah..... you can blame that one on a combination of a writer's strike and control being relegated to a Kira fangirl)
Been looking forward to this! These retrospectives are very enlightening for a new fan like me who jumped in with G Witch to learn where to go next, already seen 79, 8th MS, and Zeta thanks to you XD
This is so nostalgic. Thank you for taking extra time and care and making sure this retrospective was both as thoughtful and enjoyable as possible
Here here!
I second this
So fun fact Matt Hill Kira's first English VA would have the voice director kick him below the belt so he could be in real pain whenever Kira had to cry.
That's teamwork D:
Method acting man, what the hell?
I never heard about that! That director had the nerve to ball kick Captain N!!?
Gigachad
Another fun fact that blew my mind as a kid; Matt Hill is also the voice of Ed from Ed Edd n Eddy.
The series of all time, lads. Can't wait
Oh yeah, they explain kira surviving the aegis bomb in the astray manga
Didn't the astray throw the gerbara straight between them to deflect the explosion
@@dhampirdp3489 not in between them, in the ground to divert energy to it (i think)
Kakarot197 has a video on it tho
@@XTempestBuster Still don't make any sense but it's aight, it's Jesus Yamato after all.
Awesome review. I had tried finding the original dub of Rau's rant recently because I loved his maniacal raving and was curious how the new one handled it, so I'm glad that it's good.
Concerning Kiras survival another explanation I've heard is that he simply managed to climb out of the cockpit at the very last moment and was sent flying by the force of the explosion.
Pick your poison I guess, but personally I think this one makes more sense.
After all, it's not the first time a gundam pilot survived being at ground zero to an explosion followed by a stupidly fatal fall (I'm looking at you Hero Yuy!), but with Kira being a coordinator... I actually have an easier time buying that it's possible.
Hero Yuy was also genetic engineered as mentioned by Zechs on his reflexes and him breaking electric conduits with his bare hands...
@@charzanboo9940 Well that just makes it more likely then.
Isnt Heero also genetically modified? And trained from youth as a soldier.
But either way, physics breaking ain new in gundam... hell, 18 meter tall giant bipedal robots breaks physics harder than anything.
Canonically Lowe Guele saver him with the Gundam Astray Red Frame.
But again, Pick your Poison
Ocean dub does sound iffy at times but if nothing else, I think Rau's voice there fits him more than the new. It sounded sophisticated with an air of superiority which complemented his rants in the later episodes.
Ocean dub really captured Rau's madness
Gundam SEED Astray series provided some back explanation for most stuff not shown in the series. Aside from Rev Malchio, Lowe Guel from the Junk Guild has a hand in rescuing Kira. Unfortunately the series only had 2 OAV shorts existing aside from the manga and photobooks.
So there’s an actual series of Gundam Seed Astray? I’ve seen like pieces of scenes here on UA-cam, but I thought it was just some kind of promotional or teaser stuff to go along with the manga.
Yes, to add on to this, the plan was to have SEED and the Astray manga come out together to supply the whole story. This worked in Japan of course, but not everywhere else. The Astray manga got delayed and SEED had to show on its own. That's why folks complained about plot holes originally.
@Nico Dalusong creative, I'll give them that.
"How did he survive?" "The answer is in this series that NEVER MADE IT TO THE WEST. kekw"
@@XTempestBuster Meh, I won't complain about that. After G-Saviour, Bandai focused more on their local Japanese audience with SEED & its multimedia. Western fans were lucky to get the localized show at all, thanks to SEED's succeed all across Asia.
@@XTempestBuster Astray did make it to the west eventually, after like a year after the end of Seed I think. The english Tokyopop version came out in 04, which was a year after the end of Seed in 03
Pretty dumb idea to do this, and Sunrise never did this kind of "companion piece" to anime again.
People dont give the remaster dub enough credit, it is one of the best gundam dubs to date
I generally don't agree with people calling Kira a Mary Sue during the last ~15 eps - he may have renewed purpose and resolve, but he screws up real badly and loses a lot (including getting heavily damaged and almost dying/getting captured while distracted by Flay in the Escape Pod). Finding out that he's a product of extreme modification can't be good for his psyche, which only Lacus stabilizes him well enough to operate.
Despite his efforts to stop the war, the war basically went to the logical conclusion and almost ended with Rau winning. Hardly anywhere near perfect.
Frankly, a lot of the Jesus memes were retroactively applied after Destiny, which I definitely agree was a serious problem, and why I like rewatching SEED but not Destiny.
9:41
Ayo, A Suikoden 2 Reference?!??
Man, I've been watching these Gundam retrospectives over the past weekend, but that alone is worth an instant subscription 😤👌
You know it's a good day when Retcon puts out another episode of the gundam retrospective! And at an hour in length? I'm eating good tonight boi!
Fun fact Rau Le creuset HD version dub actor is Kevin Collins who voiced Griffith from berserk
I still prefer the original actor it just fits him way better with all of his various sides
@@Goldfire345 the HD remaster sounds like it made some REALLY weird voice direction and pronunciation decisions... I haven't watched the finished product, but I remember being utterly turned off by Rau's lack of affect and how they pronounced Gamow. It sounds like the L4 rant got a good showing, but... I don't know. I'm skeptical.
I was waiting for this! I really enjoyed this so much! Gundam Seed is my favorite series overall, with my favorite character being Cagalli. It was really great to see how you fully enjoyed the series too!
Sometimes, I wish someone else handle Destiny. Poor Cagalli, she deserves better. SEED is how I got into Gundam.
@@Joshua_N-A I absolutely agree, they did Cagalli so wrong in Destiny. They at least gave respect to Lacus, Athrun and Kira. They could have done so much more for her but chose to let her character down. I am looking forward to the new movie to see how the continuity continues or how it’s wrapped up
My personal favorite Gundam series. I've watched the original and the remastered, old dub and new dub and in Japanese. Personally I do like the old dub better. Name pronunciations really stroke a cord with me in the new one... especially when you listen to how names are pronounced in the Japanese version.
This series also has my favorite Gundam the Freedom, favorite Gundam pilot Athrun and best girl Lacus. Looking forward to hearing your opinion on Destiny... it's... ahh... yeah..............................................
SEED was my first gundam series and i watched it my local dub and for whatever reason i enjoy more the original dub than the sub
I’ve been WAITING for this one. My fav Gundam since it aired
"He's the worst character in Gundam named Orga"
*cuts to Dearka*
I see what you did there!
My favorite Char clone will probably always be Harry Ord, but Rau is pretty high up there.
Harry's a Quattro clone, at least visually.
i love rau, he is a charismatic megalomaniac who is borderline the joker. and he steals every scene he is in. i still love the moment he goes to try and kill lacus, and says to her, something like "i love your songs, but unfortunately i have to kill you".
I generally agree with your assessment, SEED is not some unmissable classic but if you're in the mood for some fun and frenetic mech battles and aren't too turned off by the melodrama there's is enough done well to recommend it to new viewers.
My own issue with SEED I think stems from Destiny. I just can't partition SEED from Destiny in my head. Destiny wasn't simply flawed or disappointing, it revealed and exacerbated all the issues implicit to SEED. Kira's one-note messianic characterization and how every character in his orbit is gradually overshadowed by him, the increasing levels of moustache-twirling evil by the setting's factions, the multiple levels of fanservice, and the excessiveness of literally everything ever. It started in SEED and definitely begins to stack up in Destiny, and it ultimately all works together to push me out of the Cosmic Era.
Yeah, as much as I love Seed (and Destiny for some parts) the villains being Saturday morning cartoon villains kinda turned me off. Sure, at first it was fun and funny ride... but the overzealous need to slaughter everyone in the worse ways possible made it really hard to sympathize with _any_ of the villains. The original Gundam was like "Yeah, these people are the villains but they're still _people_ with their own hopes and dreams that are clashing with the "good guys". But in Seed...
That said, Rau Le Creuset was my favorite villain because he brought a smile to my face everytime he was on screen. He was just so over the top that I couldn't help but love the ham he brought.
@@andrewowens4421 im gonna be honest, i loved creuzete. he was the right amount of camp to pull off the insanity of his plan. above all i love the bit when he goes in to kill lacus and says something like "i love your music but i have to kill you now" or something like that.
he was borderline joker-ish. and i loved it. also, he was charismatic enough to make you belive he could pull off what he did.
finally, i also love the implication of his past, specially with the bits from destiny, that not only he might've been gay, but the main reason he was created was because Mu's father was a sick narcisist who genuinely wants to fck himself. which would add to his hatred of not only Mu's family, but also humanity as a whole(and the fact his genes were modified to a point that could lead to mental issues as well).
@@andrewowens4421 Saturday morning cartoon? Rwandan genocide and Bosnian genocide was happened than a decade before the show came out. If anything, the show certainly wasnt shy about showing how brutal the ethnic conflict can get.
Besides... you never could sympathize with Athrun? Or Nicol's dad? Or Waltfeld? Plenty of Zaft antagonists were quite synpathetic, as do alot of Alliance personnel, despite part of a faction that used WMD.
Moustache-twirling evil? With the exception of maybe the Destiny plan, all the mad insane nutjobs in the shows arent really that far fetched. Plenty of horrific atrocities in human history, hell, Rwandan genocide happened in less than a decade before the show came out. Ain no "moustache twirling" about that. That was real, and very bloody. Seed, and hell even Destiny did a good job on portraying the type of zealots and extremists that IRL have caused some of the most bloody conflicts in history.
Gundam SEED in an hour 04, and you haven't even touched SEED destiny yet. I am loving your channel.
I'm loving the new edit jokes. You've made me laugh with each one lol. The CoD one had me LMAO
SEED is basically Gundam for fans of CLAMP
FINALLY... Retcon is back & he brought a banger with him
SEED is my first exposure to Gundam and it was aired although a bit later in mu country after Japan. It uses 0079 as base and go its own way later on. Call me crazy but, after few rewatches, Flay grew up on me. IMO, she's one of the best written character in the series. Her dynamics with Kira interest me more than Kira with Lacus. She's a spoiled child whose father never got to spend time with her properly especially during a war where everyone's busy and her mother passed away before the series proper and she's the only child. Her conversation with Natarle in the Dominion showed her character progression. She even shown concerned earlier when ask about Kira's whereabouts after the deadly duel with Athrun and doesn't want to be separated from the rest of Archangel crew in Alaska. Episode 15 of remaster is my favourite. Btw, Athrun, Lacus and Flay have something in common: their respective mothers died before the story starts and their respective fathers are higher ups of their respective governments except Cagalli because Uzumi isn't her biological and she and Kira were raised separately as protection. Kira was adopted by his uncle and his aunt, Caridad, which is Via, KnC's biological mother's younger sister. No, Via isn't a cold hearted mother as she begs Ulen, her husband and KnC's biological father to give Kira back when he took him out of her womb and put him into the artificial womb in order to create the perfect Coordinator.
Another interesting thing is PLANTs, unlike Zeon is never occupied nor defeated. Technically the Coordinators already won by firing the GENESIS twice, once on the EA main fleet and another destroys the EA lunar base and with only one mass driver functioning in EA's hands, I doubt the victory is Earth's. To make matters worst, the Atlantic Federation (mighty USA stand-in. I mean, look at the Calamity, Forbidden and Raider, what are those reminded you of?) and the Eurasian Federation (Glorious mother Russia stand-in and the one who owns the fortress Artemis) are locked in a sort of Cold War situation long before the series start so EA is a fragile alliance that can shattered into pieces in any minute.
Rau is an interesting one. Reason he wears the mask is who he is. He hate that face, the face of man who think he's rich enough to bribe the Grim Reaper and buy immortality. Cosmic Era questions humanity's quest for progress and its consequences. Rau is one of those consequence hence his nihilistic speech says it all about us. Btw he's also the one that able to troll Kira psychologically unlike a certain Rey.
Cyclops system is no joke. EA used it TWICE. Once on the moon where Mu got the nickname Hawk of Endymion. The flaws are present and they should've keep the original Kira swing the sword into the Blitz in the remaster because that Kira is already a soldier and he just reacts accordingly to situation. Also, it's mind boggling how Cagalli, a Natural can have SEED mode. Wish the Astray girls live. Cagalli would be the commander type, sitting around planning, giving orders etc as that's how she raised in house of Attha. Ironically, the most radical anti-Coordinator nation, AF did had a Combat Coordinator program before they switch to the biological CPUs.
It's long but it's my best thoughts on it.
Edit: extras and probably some corrections
*I get how Lowe saves Kira but it still doesn't add up, for me. Pause the scene and the Strike's phase shift armor and beam saber still active. Kira could have cut the remaining limbs, turn around the last moment and let the Aile pack and PSA absorbs the impact while said shutter activated. Also, the Aegis explosion is way too powerful as if as it's on reactor power. Either that or ZAFT found out a fail safe bomb is planted inside so it can be detonated should any pilots going rogue.
*Lack of M1 Astray commander type. A commander variant is staple in Gundam so instead of Strike Rouge (Mu really need those spare parts), how about an Astray Commander? AI shouldn't be a new thing in Gundam, ALICE back in the 80's with Gundam Sentinel is an example. Not to mention Wing got Mobile Dolls. The BuCue, ZAFT would've turn it into a UGV and act as an attack dog and force multiplier for the Coordinators to make up for the lack of numbers. Cagalli would've benefit from such a prototype AI program in her unit to make up for her lack of experience and the Astray girls would've lived. Then there's educational background. Kira can build his own Gundam if he wants to and could develop an AI program for it or even remote control it.
Cosmic Era got a ton of potential. If done right, it could've been the successor to UC.
Let's go! I've been so ready for this retrospective! 💜
the funny thing about the Cosmic Era is that I like it except for every second Kira or Lacus are on screen; then I hate it for the duration of their screen time
Regardless of the Subtitles or Localization, Kira and Lacus (Lack-us) are insufferable…!
Rie Tanaka, Chantal Shrand (Ocean Group), and Stephanie Sheh (Funimation, NYAV Post) are great voice actresses who have the misfortune of voicing an insufferable dip💩!
Had the melodrama been less of a focus, I wouldn’t mind.
cosmic era what, is kira world btw 🤣
and i hate that 😑
Really nice retrospective on pointing out the good and bad of the series. I am definitely looking forward to the next one! MSIGLOO is one of my favourites (despite the really bad facial expressions).
Didn't know that Peter Cullen did a intro summarize of Gundam, it's so cool and fitting
Also Murrue is the best Milf
You need to be a mother to be a MILF. Murrue wasn't even married not a mom 😅
Fun fact: Rinko Iori from the original Build Fighters was voiced by Murrue.
@Lord of D Decepticons Transform and Rise Up!
thank youfor this! Seed was only the 2nd Gundam series that I ever saw, grabbing the Fan-Subs off of sharing sites during college. I absolutely Love Kira as a character, Idk why I do so much but He just really stuck a cord with me, the Freedom and its later upgrade are absolutely my favorites suits in all of Gundam so far ( I havent watched alot of the classics yet! I will be watching X on your recommend though!). I never thought that ANYTHING would replace the Deathscythe for me but there ya go LOL. For all of the ridiculousness of Seed Destiny and the fact that the main character just is dismissed and Athrun and Kira get center stage again, I still find it pretty enjoyable, even if its just to exist to let Kira be even more awesome! I really could care less, just give me more of him being the savior of the battlefield in his Angel of a Gundam!!
I just finished SEED yesterday and I absolutely loved it. I was enjoying myself the first half of the anime but I was completely enthralled once the second half started. While I don't think I would put it on the same level as Zeta, The Origin, or Unicorn (some of my favorites) it was so fun to watch. I'm a little scared of SEED Destiny though... I just started that one and definitely know the reputation. Wish me luck.
I been waiting for you to do this one. Once again killing it with the toonami openings. Such great nostalgia
Seed is a great ride, it has a lot of problems but it's one of my favorites. It my first Gundam and one of my favorite
SEED is how I got into Gundam in the first place. Strike's beam saber and PS armor are still active when Aegis clamp on it during the duel on the island. Kira could've cut the remaining limbs. The GINN is one of the best Zaku analogues, Miguel would've survive had he brought a GINN High Manuever and a shield.
seed is ALOT of people's first encounter with gundam. it had just enough evangelion melodrama to put itself appart from other shows of its time, while also having some brutal moments that you did not see coming, including killing innocent people and children, as well as important characters.
Years after watching this show, i still remember how remarkable and truly outstanding rau lecruseit's dub va was. Especially in final episodes. Wow! That performance was jawdroppingly intense! Aside from him, lacus dub va was also so sweet and i loved the character even more.
Easily one of the best Gundam Dub VA performances and one of my personal favorites. Back in the day I had all those lines memorized due to how phenomenal the performance was!
gundam seed is my goddamn childhood, i just actually finished watching it a few years ago after not having the full volume, i love gundam seed
Out of all the Gundam stuff I’ve been watching, I ruled out two from the equation: Gundam AGE since it just looked uninteresting, and SEED, since the first critique I heard about it was from Woolie on the Super Best Friendscast roasting the series for its terribleness.
It also just looks super unappealing to me in the visuals department. I get that it’s their first time using digital animation but it still looks… ehhh.
Here’s hoping you’ll notice this TED talk of mine and that I’ll pick up on some positive things from your video! Because I haven’t started it yet. Thanks for continuing this retrospective!
having watched all of gundam AGE, honestly the most salvagable aspect of the series is the second era with the second protag; has a decent story, good characters, the AGE-2 is the best suit in that series. it's good enough that that part of the series is the only part that was repackaged as a full movie
@KeroKaminaX
Yeah, I’ve heard that Act 2 is the best part of the series! And then everything after is just super lame.
@@robertfaulkkner5508 not exactly lame just concepts that could’ve been interesting if they didn’t drop the ball
@@robertfaulkkner5508 AGE 2 is the best arc but that's because AGE 1 story was old hat & boring and AGE 3 being downright absurd & straight up ruined some characters.
By the way Kira getting out of the strike during his battle with the Aegis is explained in the Gundam Seed of astray manga and the Gundam Seed manga adaptation, though they are each explained slightly differently. Either the protagonist of Gundam seed astray deflected most of the blast using his own gundam's weapon and then pulled Kira from the cockpit before the seat and controls started burning or Kira crawled out through the damaged cockpit door and got to a far enough distance where the explosion only pushed him back. In either case he's brought two Reverend malkio by the protagonist of Gundam seed astray and he takes him to the plants from there.
Nice retrospective! I'm a little sad though that you didn't talk too much about the music from the series -which I think is stellar and really elevates it overall.
Honestly it's believable that Kira was able to pretend he was natural, all the main character coordinators have weird hair colors
Oh s*** here we go again the K drama of the Gundam series lol 😂
What are you talking about, this is Grand Theft Gundam
@@SaberShadow002 Pretty much every series is Grand Theft Gundam
In terms of animation SEED really looks weird, due to it being the first Gundam show digitally colored, there's some impressive sequences, but there's also tons of recycled shots/animations, even moreso than in previous shows. Not to mention that Hisashi Hirai's artstyle looks worse than it did in Infinite Ryvius, don't know if his designs look better in Fafner.
It's kind of interesting how SEED kind of started a some sort of golden age for Sunrise mecha shows in the 2000s, at least commercially and in popularity, alongside Code Geass and Gundam 00
It doesn't look better in Fafner.
I think it looks better in Majestic Prince, maybe?
It's pretty much same character syndrome for all of his series anyways.
@@Iridium-77-g I remembered that Hirai did the character designs for the anime s-CRY-ed, that came a year before SEED and it was also made by Sunrise and was one their first anime colored digitally. I've seen some clips and the coloring looks similar to SEED, though there're a couple of characters that looked very different from what Hirai usually draws
Seed seemed so controversial at the time but, now AGE, Iron Blood Orphans and maybe Witch of Mercury might be even more conversational depending on who you ask, things keep evolving I suppose. But no matter how much changes...Kira still annoys me at times, most of that's not till Destiny though. Wait...the new dub really calls Lacus like...Lacoos or something? WTF? BUT...with Flay I mean...at least she is not Katejina I guess.
AGE was just uninteresting and no one cared for it. It might be the worse entry of the franchise imo at least. Between IBO and WFM, the latter is so far more polarizing due to its premise and style for some gundam fans who came from watching IBO .
I'd say AGE was pretty interesting after the first 10 or so episodes but I'd still put it in the bottom half of gundam series for me because it just falls apart in its last act, even its middle act is filled with characters that go nowhere.
AGE should've been 3 25-episode seasons. Flay grew up on me after several rewatches. GSD is so problematic that fanfics fixing the story pop up like mushrooms after the rain.
After years and years of people bashing it like some kind of hobby by overexaggerating its flaws...
I was kinda apprensive but still open-minded to this review.
VERY glad you proved my fears wrong and kinda biased, its nice to see there are people that while not enjoying the same things I do, wont go out of their way to shit on it and me as a fan of it just for the heck of it or whatever reason :D
I find it hilarious that you've been mispronouncing Lacus' name THE WHOLE TIME and the "improper" pronunciation you mentioned was actually the RIGHT pronunciation.
yeah I had no idea what the gundam fandom considers the right pronunciation because both dubs pronounce her name in completely different ways. Ive run into this before where shows have 2 dubs and it just devolves into both sides telling me I'm wrong but I let it slide cause it baits interaction on the video hahahah
Funny you mention how good the animation got during Kira and Athrun's final battle with one other. In the original release, all the most savage bits of Strike and Aegis tearing strips out of each other were simply still frames. The special edition movies actually animated those scenes and then the remaster used those (far more impactful) cuts.
I was never able to get into SEED, I remember all of my friends being head over heels for it and I legit tried to see why. All I could really like was the suit designs, they were neat. Thanks for the video though! Keep up the good work!
Barring the Strike and Freedom, the Buster Gundam is still my absolute favorite of the (non-Destiny) bunch.
It just fulfills the TF2 Engineer philosophy to a T: The Solution Is A Gun And If That Don't Work, *Use More Gun* .
The way they just threw in a new villian and pilots was pretty silly too. I thought i had missed something at first
Didnt miss anything, I am pretty sure thats when Sunrise decided to continue with the Cosmic era Gundam timeline instead of letting it be another "one and done" Gundam AU show. So things had to be retooled.
To me it feels like the visual quality of the remaster is a bit all over the place, most of the budget went to the fan service. As for the audio, the quality may be better, but some lines were changed, which has an effect on the characters. For example, in the remaster when Kira finds that the Strike is only equipped with knives at the beginning, he is like "here we go!" while charges in. Originally he was in shock, like "this is all?!" If you want to see the original, I think your best bet is torrent.
Also, after Destiny, there are two things you absolutely need to watch: Stargazer, which is a spinoff OVA series, and Cross Ange, which is a... tangent? It was made by the people behind Seed and is also kind of a parody of it. The cast includes an abrasive tomboy princess with short blonde hair, a bitch with long red hair, a guy who is immune to explosions and a blonde psycho behind all of it. And a lot of Seed references. And even more fan service.
Kira Yamato fights people. He kills some people. Then he cries over it. He does this repeatedly until he gets an OP mobile suit that lets him destroy enemy weapons without killing the pilots. There, I just summarized the entirety of SEED.
This one came so close to finally getting rid of space magic. _Technology_ can stand on it's own, _it_ can be the source of any of the powers or capabilities they want to depict. The idea of the coordinators was _perfect._ it took a supernatural aspect and made it a technological one. But they _had_ to throw newtypes back into it.
Feel like x men of Gundam
36:01 that's actually a spoiler for Gundam Seed Astray
The Junk Guild, the main focus group were actually Watching the Aegis vs Strike Battle and the Leader/Pilot of the Original Astray, Lowe Guele instantly rushed in to the remains of the Strike and tried to get him out of there as soon as possible and gave him to the Archangel Crew
As someone who has watched both some Gundam series, as well as Code Geass in the same year, I can only come to one conclusion…
Man, Seed is just Beta Code Geass.
Code Geass wouldn't exist without SEED.
53:50 legit saying re dub is fantastic hurts my soul when hearing this moment, like their really is no comparison coming from someone that watched his seed box see so much the dvds no longer work
Gundam X they were never on either side so they weren't splitting off. Wing having thr Gundam Pilots bounce around after they were ordered to stand down by Dr. 0, and the re-founding of the Sanc Kingdom, and the Peacemillion kinda work for that.
Honestly Aeug would ALMOST count as this, espescially when the Gundam Team steal the Nahel Argama in ZZ but not quite.
the world building was so good in this series they are still milking this timeline after 20 years
All you have to know about the ocean dub is that kira was voiced by ed from ed, edd, and Eddy.
Are Canadians still the majority of English dubbers today?
@@Joshua_N-A not anymore
There definitely isn’t a website called wcostream with all the gundam animes new and old as well as most other shows. They even have a mashed up dub version of destiny HD which is actually surprisingly good if you are into that kinda thing.
God I miss those Toonami Promos. I wish my life was narrated lake a Toonami Promo. "He was hungry...so he drove to McDonalds--IN STYLE".
(Spoiler) Do you want to know how Kira survived blast nuke: go watch manga Gundam Seed Astray re:master.
Zaft is not a dictatorship or one party it has a parliament and a presidential council so they are more similar to Switzerland
Technically PLANT is a one-party state, even if the politicians are elected by ppl... but thats more due to its so young. At the beginning of Seed its been a country for grand total of 11 months... so the political cracks and different opinions havent created multiple parties yet.
The US for example didnt have political parties until years after it was formed. Plant is kinda in the similar state
despite its issues seeds still one of my favorites in the series, and without seed and even seed destiny id likley have never gotten into gundam or even the mecha genre in general.
also gundam seed astray actually fills in some plot holes for seed (which shouldve just been in the show but whatever) like how kira survived his fight with atherun, and its just in general better written than seed.
It’s been almost 20 years since I’ve watched Seed and Destiny.
I remember the key bits but wanted a refresher before seeing freedom next month so I appreciate the videos.
48:08 Waltfeld's wife/girlfriend/Hamon equivalent DID die though.
Yeah she did man, and they just never mention her again. Hell, I didnt even mention her at all. Kinda wierd that the show did that lol.
@@Retcon404 I guess they figured having both survive would be TOO nice for Kira. Honestly shocked the remaster didn't stick her in the background as a nonspeaking role.
Just found this channel randomly, and I hope there's a SEED Destiny Retrospective coming up.
If I'm not mistaken the Rau VA from the dub you showed also played Griffith in Berserk
No way Mark Oliver did Griffith?
@@LatencyProblemKevin Collins, actually.
I have only finished 5 Gundam series (have dropped a couple) this is my 2nd or 3rd favourite Gundam series with 00 being my favourite
When i started watching Seed i had literally 0 Expectations, it was just the thing i could watch at that time (thanks C virus) But i ended having a Blast, personally i have no problem with reused animation, and the music..I knew Seed had Bangers as Op/Ed but the OST is so criminally good. Easily the most fun i've had watching a full gundam series (40+)
Watched the entire thing in 1 week, including Destiny and Stargazer and honestly? Seed gets too much hate and it does NOT deserve it
As always, thanks for the video, really looking forward to MS Igloo
Stargazer was SO good. Destiny was... something
@@asimhussain8716 of cours3.
destiny only good on srw z and l
ONE OF THE BEST RETROSPECTIVE CHANNEL.VERY EXCTED TO THE COMING GUNDAM SERIES AND OTHER ANIME.TOP NOTCH RESEARCH AND NARRATIONS
SEED was actually my first Gundam series. I still think it has a lot of good ideas, a lot of good aesthetic designs. It is a weird show though, that often just feels... awkward. My favorite thing about SEED (only slightly above the Gundam fighting game adaptation of the series I owned as a child for my GBA) was sparking a lifelong love of all the Gundam series. Even the less good ones.
Looking forward to your take on the Unicorn show. :) These retrospectives are great.
You act like prearranged marriage is a capitalist thing but it was the norm in basically every society since we started farming.
It was a throwaway comment you weirdo😂
It was a throwaway comment you weirdo 😂