Mazda MX5 Miata - ND1 vs ND2 Head to Head Review!
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- Опубліковано 4 чер 2019
- When I reviewed the 155hp 2016 Mazda Miata, I loved the chassis and handling but made one specific comment: the MX-5 would be PERFECT with 180hp and 7500rpm. A year later, Mazda releases the "ND2" with - you guessed it - 181hp and 7500rpm. Hmmm... could this be the modern S2000 alternative? Let's drive and compare stock ND1 RF and ND2 RF models to find out!
Follow me on IG: / zygrene - Авто та транспорт
Side by side acceleration video: instagram.com/p/ByWvK17nc3r/?igshid=kgi9chsfni4r
This car should have suspension that better than the SACHs BRZ/FRS by now
The clubs suspension sucks in many ways
Back to back s2000 vs nd2
If this comment hits 25 likes I'll do it hehe
Well damn. Guess I'll start planning to film this!
@@Zygrene ap2 vs nd2 please
@Zygrene Yes :) looking forward to all the smiles. 8800 redline, 2800lb, 6.4 0-60 vs 7500 redline, 2300lb, 5.8 0-60
ND2 outdrags the S2000 to 60mph
You called it Fenton! 180 HP with a 7500 redline!!
Mazda listened to you
Nice comparison. Now the one everyone has been waiting for...
Can you do an S2000 vs ND2 comparison back to back?
Even if unintentional, the ND2 is strategically positioned to win over S2000 owners who are aging quickly while waiting for Honda to come out with a “S” successor... nice job Fenton
Apollo Andratti yep I sold my s2000 for an nd2.
Apollo Andratti no regrets.
00GP00 oh nice. Love the accessibility and fun factor of the ND. Is your ND a daily?
I don't understand this though... if you love the s2000... why not just have an s2000?
@@jamesshives5679 because s2000s are getting harder to find. If you do find one it's likely that's it's been ragged out or "stance nation" "hella flush".
Was waiting for this video. Did not disappoint.
Thanks for the head to head in-depth review of the 2 versions, exactly what I was after. Good job.
Perfect comparison. Exactly what I wanted to see
Thanks for the review! Currently Miata shopping!
The ND2 is the Miata we have been waiting for!
Great comparison, the one I wanted!
Cheers from Italy
I feel you on learning Manual in order to buy a sports car! I had 6 months experience when I bought my dream car as well 👍🏽
Hi Zygrene. Thanks for another informative video on Miata MX-5 ND1&2. I am in the market for a ND2. I have test driven ND2 twice. The first time I test drove a GT ND2 it was fine. I liked the ride. The second test drive of GT ND2 (both soft & hard top) I notice that the ride was loose. Please excuse my terminology I am not a car specialist. What I mean by loose is the whole car seem to rattle and vibrate noticeably more than my Subaru BRZ (I drove a base model BRZ for 3 years). My BRZ had a cross bar that ran across the engine bay, which I think held the engine securely to the monocot (car body). I think the Mazda GT ND2s did not have an engine bay cross bar. Is that why I interpreted the Miata as having a loose, more flexible body (when compared to my old BRZ). Overall, I liked the way the Miata ND2 handled turns, it felt sure footed. But the body vibrations of the ND2 at freeway speeds and rough roads was unsettling. The suspension on my former BRZ was tight and the bumps on the roads were transmitted into the car, but I could feel it was just the tight suspension. The ND2s vibrations are different from the BRZ. It's as if the ND2 body was vibrating and twisting a lot more than my former BRZ. Is this normal?
Good review. Higher redline and more hp comes through in video. 16 Club owner here. Not sure its enough difference to make me trade. But I do think about it. May ride in an newer one at an Autocross and see what its like.
Solid test. I just would encourage you at some point to try to get your hands on one with good rubber, those tires truly are squishy and lacking grip. I used to own an ND1 with RE-71Rs and I rented an ND2 with S-001s(oem) and I was reminded how sucky the grip is on those. But it's fun sliding all the time 😁
Awesome. I'd love to see you review a lightly tuned NC Miata. They're a bargain these days!
Great review and also nice t-shirt :D
Was waiting for this comment
Nice video... Is there a difference between the ND1 and ND2 factory exhaust. I am asking because some systems seem to be only for the ND1...?
Great video! Loved it! Thank you!
Nice video! Do you still have the 540i? If so, how’s it been to you?
ND2 Soft top MT Club non brembo/bbs is the right spec. You then can upgrade wildwood breaks, coilovers (get rid of body roll), and the 220 hp kit from BBR/flyin miata.
What you were describing with the bilstein suspension is because they use digressive shocks
When/If I crash my GPW Ap1 or if it gets stolen... the ND2 will easily be its’ replacement. 👍✨✨
Zupra is for sure super nice... but I can never afford it and it’s AT.
I want to see the quarter mile time difference.
Drive the 30th anniversary! Manual of course with Front strut tower bar, (LSD), Sport suspension with Bilstein® shocks, (ISE) soon!
What's your next year MX-5 prediction? I'm on the fence about a used ND1 vs a new ND2 mainly because of the new engine. Is it worth buying new for? I know a BBR tune will get the limiter up to 7150rpm and the power up to 200 bhp.
flyinmiata.com/projects/ND2/images/ND-dyno.gif ND1 more power everywhere under 6000 rpm. And the ND2 only truly revs to 7500 in the first 2 gears. Get an ND1, save $10k buy $3k in mods and love life.
ok im confused so the 2016 miata is an nd1 and the 17 and up r nd2?
The hardest part I have about the idea of owning a Miata is the RX8 exists, and that car makes the idea of buying a Miata very hard. It's just a more interesting, less compromised car that's built on the Miata chassis and provides a similar envelopment and feel. I've been hard-pressed to consider a S2000 or FT86 either, even when driven and raced (auto-x) back-to-back. The RX8 package is just so much more compelling and the character so likeable. The Miata is unique in being the lightest, and with the 181hp engine it is quicker. The Miata is a quick car and makes most other cars feel slow, even the RX8 which is a LOT heavier. I like the idea of the Miata, and it is the best modern version of a highly optimized sports car. It's a good car, really really good. I'd love a new generation of the RX8, but it likely will never happen with modern emissions needs.
Probably yeah, it would still be nice if there were to be an rx 9 lets say but like one that is really reliable and easier to sell, that would be really awesome and another collection to the last generation jdm sports car before we all go hybrid/electric/hydrogen.
I was that guy comparing which I should buy brz or ND Miata and at first I was headed towards brz but just because of the new higher reving motor that the Miata has now I have to reconsider and retest drive both cars back to back
They are in a way the same car.
The difference is that the miata is lighter, more fuel efficient, less practical and the gr86-brz is heavier more practical and less fuel efficient and on paper in stock form performs better than the miata by an inch or two.
However, performance can be upgraded on the miata quite easily, so overcoming that inch is negligible.
The mazda is probably more reliable as it has 30 years behind it.
If you are debating between a mazda miata and a gr86, go with the miata.
A used Porsche Boxster or Ford Mustang GT is the next step up, but there are some issues with those cars.
I have ND1 with header, exhaust and tune with Michelle pilot super sport tires. You would be blown away.
Are you near the Bay Area? 😁
@@Zygrene No Los Angeles.
I often hit the Angeles Crest and Mullholand dr Malibu. It's perfect for Miata.
BTW, my tires are 10mm wider than stock. 215mm. They fit directly to stock BBS wheels. Grip is amazing.
Mine also revs to 7500rpm 185 wheel horse power.
185 wheel hp not for sure. 185 at the crack would have been much more believable
So I've owned a Poly-metal Grey 2021 (ND2) MX-5 Miata Club (W/ Brembo / BBS / Recaro package) since May 29th (my 42nd BD) and really couldn't be more pleased. Prior I've owned a 2012 (NC2) MX-5 GT PRHT 6MT for a bit over 5years (until 3-24-18') and adored the car but never felt that the NC2 was quite as good as the late Honda S2000 but now with the ND2, I'm utterly convinced the current MX-5 is overall a superior vehicle to the S2000.
The late Honda S2000 is a bit quicker (5.4 vs. 5.7 0-60mph - 14.1 vs. 14.4 for 1/4m @100 vs. 96mph) but the ND2 MX-5 certainly doesn't really feel any slower and has more usable power available in the low / mid-range vs. the S2K. The S2K is regardless super fun especially on the right roads but the ND2' is more fun more of the time and is much easier to live with day to day. I still love Honda S2000's but I would not even think about opting for one over an ND2.
Honda S2000 ~ 2850lbs w/ 240hp = 11.88 P/W
Mazda MX-5 ND2 ~ 2340lbs w/ 181hp = 12.92 P/W
A general "rule of thumb" is that for every 100 lbs., 10hp is required to make up for this.
So the better power to weight ratio explains why the S2K is a bit quicker but really the ND2 is very close. Regardless, the ND2 is just over 500lbs lighter than the S2K and this helps the ND2 to respond to driver input in a way you just have to experience to truly appreciate. I can only describe the experience as nearly telepathic. The improved 7500rpm / 181hp 2.0l engine is a gem.
Yes just what I asked for!!
Where do you do these drives? What are the roads?
Is there a turbo kit available for the ND2 miata?
How does tuned nd1 vs nd2 stock
Good honest review
The ND2 sounded very much like the S2000, should drive the S2000 and the ND2 back to back!
Good side-by-side comparison.
Is this on Metcalf or Calaveras Rd?
It's not a "game changer" it's just a power band modification. The ND2 may make more peak power at a higher RPM, but down in the daily driven region of the tach - it actually make less power and torque.
PLUS it's been proven that it's 7500 rpm red line is only achievable in 1st and 2nd gears. In all others, it has an offset tach - so that when it shows 7500 you are only spinning 7200. It was done for engine safety.
flyinmiata.com/projects/ND2/images/ND-dyno.gif
If you drive them back to back it is a game changer. The throttle response and overall characteristics of the ND1 can’t compare. Pause the ND1 just looses power on the top end where as the ND2 pulls hard to redline. It’s a completely different feel. After driving a ND2 for months I had an opportunity to drive an ND1. It was not as fun. So your mechanical tach cable modifies the actual rpm based on the gear? 🤔 really?
@@TheChenny73 in my area, ND1 vs ND2 is minimum $15,000 difference (CAD) it's not a $15k difference that's forsure.
Interesting
Not quite correct. They did tune the MZ3 engine a bit for the ND1. I'm not sure what changes were made, but I remember reading that. And obviously, there must be a reason they recommend premium for it, but not the MZ3.
Why haven't there been any videos racing these to. Just to see the difference.
Damn I feel bad for the first dude. Still a great car but an 26 hp would have been nice.
what year is ND2 released?
Canyon-carving review vids > track vids. Mainly because I'm a canyon carver and not a track guy, but also because it's easier for you to offer such a thoughtful analysis.
Feedback appreciated!
Nice vid. 👍🏾👍🏾
Great video, just got a 2019 miata sport.
good job. you bought the right miata. now you get to laugh at the ND1 owners with their 155 hp and 6.5k rpm redline. they are currently right now crying in a corner trying to justify their purchase and life existence
@@cuzidk lol same here i would drive my ND1 off a bridge xD but seriously thats messed up... they just released the nd1 in 2016 and now the 2019 nd2 is like a whole new car. i know that companies usually make revisions every few years that adds a few horsepower and stuff but this is basically a far superior brand new engine. they shouldve just waited and released the ND1 with the 185hp motor....ND1 owners got screwed over big time
More of these vids!
Dam that exhaust is perfect
Good comparison mate I saw that
Oh fucking right man I have missed you so much. Podcasts aren’t my thing and track driving is not interesting to me for some reason. I guess because I have no experience with it and it means nothing to me/I have no frame of reference , and the lack of discussion means I gain basically zero insight without the ability to analyze your driving from the mindset of someone who’s similarly capable.
I’ve very much been wanting to see someone who I trust evaluate the difference with the new Miata. That leaves only you and Savage Geese basically, and he loved it
I got the nd2. Great car. What could i do to improve the engine a bit more without compromising the reliability? Any suggestions?
Larger Air Intake
Larger Exhaust
Spark Plugs
Radiator
Air Filter
Turbo
Suspension
Brakes
Tires
don't listen to watever the below comment said, also adding turbo def compromise the reliability, ecu tune first then listen to what the engineer say at the ecu tune place
Great review, but It would’ve been great to see the two lineup and do acceleration runs from a given speed to see if the 2019 is actually any faster.
Check my Instagram, just posted an acceleration comparo video!
No shit!
@@Zygrene bbj
Best review
Love every every youtuber who makes recommendations that 80% of people would make, that designers were probably already working to achieve even before their somewhat typical comment, feel like they were single-handedly responsible for the transformation.. Cracks me up every time.
The 1.5 was already engineered with the hot rodded internals that the nd2’s ended up getting.
Nice comparison. Great to hear the extra hp are useful 😊
RF is too much noisy around the top already in low speed compared to the ordinary convertible.
You mean the RF is noisier than the soft top? I would have thought it was the other way around and reviewers seem to report so too?
Albert I tried the RF and have owned a soft top.
When open, the wind is making noise around the corners at top in RF behind you and it’s so noisy that you can’t do a conversation when driving 80 km/hr
I owned a 13 frs....sure 7400 rpm redline....just noise....Prius tires sucked....brakes weren’t good either....as a racer in stock trim I could run maybe 10-15 min before brakes were gone...classic pad fade..... that was on track....on street it just doesn’t have torque..... bought 16 nd miata club brembo.....so much torque compared to frs..... just bought nd2 rf club brembo......wow....just wow....same torque but pulls hard to redline....way better than nd1 or frs.... what I liked about early frs was loose handling I prefer it....
At 7500 RPM it's not even working, sounds smooth and nice, not like it's wound out!
Mazda please give us a RF mazdaspeed with turbo!
Did you keep your 540? Suspension changed again or? Random question but you driven a 500 abarth? Fun? What’s the best Fwd cheap sporty car, fiesta? Between fiesta st & 500 abarth which is more fun? Used Miata Brz vs Fiesta st vs 500 abarth? I’m trying to help a 19 year old pick his fun car.
The kids dad died when he was like 3 years old, he comitted suicide, and his mom is a worthless addict , and he’s taking care of his little brother at age 18/19, and working making very good money so I’m encouraging him to sell his Camry and get something fun, he’s earned it, likely not enough free time to test drive them all though. Anyway would appreciate your thoughts.
Miata
Is
Always
The
Answer
You need to listen to the Everyday Driver car debate podcast my man! ST is the short answer.
goodoljr1 i don’t care about the short answer, anyone can see that “ST” is shorter than the other words. I wouldn’t be able to recommend a car based on naming voodoo
lvbuckeye y’all gotta stop saying that if you expect to convert realists who know NOTHING is ALWAYS the answer.
goodoljr1 appreciate the podcast suggestion though. I’ve heard of it but I’m ADD and I don’t tolerate podcasts well. I want to. I’m jealous of people I see listening at various times. Reminds me of school and all those sewn together paper stacks. I never could complete one.
So when I listen to a podcast it’s like being at school I just start thinking I need to smoke a cigarette or a joint or make out with some chick or some teacher chick under the stairs etc.
Nd2 engine might be my go to for a swap in a NA
It would cost you huge, better off buying a 19
@@leavingasap843 I don't think it would. Would be way cheaper and still better idea than an Ls swap. 3k max for a used 2019 long block from a wrecked one and maybe another 3k for the ecu. Assuming you don't need a harness also, maybe a new fuel pump for less than 200 and if you can install it yourself, 7k said and done with the weight of the NA plus the power of the ND. Hell even an NC motor with 171 hp wouldn't be a bad idea.
@@EjinRenos might as well use all that money for a downpayment
at least youre not an ND1 owner....ND1 owners are currently crying in a corner trying to justify their purchase and life existence.....imagine blowing 30k on a car, just for a highly superior model of the same car come out the next year. similar to how 2010 mustang gt owners feel when the 2011 5.0 came out
@@brucelee7283 yeah I completely feel that
How's the Brembo compare to the stock? worth the $4k?
In my opinion, no. For track use you're better off with an aftermarket big brake kit like Stoptech for a lot less than 4k.
I have ND2 Club Brembo BBS and just the BBS alone were worth the $$$$
If the BRZ had the new Miatas engine, it would be in my driveway. Hate hate hate the BRZ
/86 engine. It's not fun to rev like the Miatas 2.5L. It's a shame the Miata manual gearbox appears to be made of glass
2.0 in the Mx5 and no record of any 2019 transmission busted to this date. The 16 thru 18 had problems with weaker gears... probably bad batch or poor forging metals. And it also wasn't limited to just the manuals.
I have the bone stock ND1 (2018 club with manual) Though I love my car It initially bummed me out the next year model had significan bump in power HOWEVER I have done several ahem "spirited" runs through various twisty routes and I can confidently state that NONE of the ND2s have ever even begun to pull away from me EVER. It seems the same as running with ND1s In other words my guess is in real world terms that 25+ hp high in the rev range wont be much missed....still IF I could twitch my nose and poof have the ND2 motor? Well DUHH I would! I just dont imagine I am missing much. I actually bought my car used (cheap!) with only 9k on the clock where it would have cost $10k more for new nd2
5:49 If you know, then you know!
Straight negging people in their car while driving love it
Jesus I’d be spewing if I had a 2018 model
Do you have a discord server? I assume you’re a tech guy but if not I’ll set one up for you. I don’t want to harass you but I knew asking 8 questions meant it would be hard to justify answering any of them
I don't have a Discord, would be pretty cool if you helped set one up :)
Winding road homage! So ND2 RF or soft top?
Depends what style you like. The wind noise on the RF is a lot less than the softop when down. The drawback is the blind spots which isn't a deal if you know how to look and aim mirrors. A RF does just as nicely as the softop on tracks despite the extra 150ish pounds.
I personally like the RF because it reminds me of the S1 lotus elise and 70s corvettes.
Having owned a 2016 Grand Touring and then a 2017 RF Club Brembo I have to say this car’s suspension is set up absolutely awful from the factory. Mazda claiming the body roll and under damped suspension adds to the interaction is absolute bull shit, the car just feels sloppy and makes the fact that the electric steering has so little actual feel all the more aggravating. The good news is it can be made to handle a ton better with a few suspension tweaks (proper set of springs/anti roll bars) but I honestly don’t know how anyone can rave about its handling in stock form
Do you still own your RF? I made an accidental discovery today on top of having removed the eps motor and it feels awesome now honestly.
Alexander Anastas-Hill I have a 2019 now steering seems slightly better but suspension is not a whole lot different. I wanted the new engine and didn’t feel like going through all the motions with switching out suspension so just left it stock and deal with softness. So removing EPS improves the car?
@@jameswillard1 Just the steering effort and feedback. I love it now. PM for details, trying not to encourage people messing with their cars without proper caution.
you also went from a grand touring to the club
@@FunFiction704 not sure what you mean? The steering is the same in both .....and honestly, even the suspension isn’t hardly much different at all
The 2016 Mazda MX5 ND1 is pretty much the same as the ND2 plus it comes with a CD player...
How big was that first passenger?
much bigger?
Need more twisties
We’ll time to trade my ND1 in
Poor ND1 guy, reminds me of the that meme of the crying guy wearing the smiley-faced mask LOL.
Drive the 30th anniversary!
Haha you broke out the POV porn cam!! Lol
ND1 should get an OV Tune. 180hp at 7200 rpm.
Stock ND1 to stock ND2: flyinmiata.com/projects/ND2/images/ND-dyno.gif ND2 less power everywhere under 6000 rpm.. hmm then consider an ND2 can only achieve 7200 rpm in 3rd gear and above - even though the tach shows 7500... confirmed my love for the ND1
@@tanktheram So, judging by that Flyin' Miata dyno chart, the ND1 and ND1 motors are pretty much close to even until 6000rpm, whereupon the ND1 signs off (on both HP and torque) and the ND2 gains another 13hp and stays near-flat on torque. Interesting. Esp if you don't want to wring out the motor all the time. Thanks for the info.
@@10slover62 yessir. Most guys are doing a tune and a header, and making more power than the ND2. I've since left my Miata, but its exactly what I would have done with it.
would you sell your s2000 for an nd2?
The short answer is no. The long answer is nope.
@@Zygrene ok will u still suggest someone to buy an old S2k instead of getting this.
Now that's a good question. ND2 are still going for 30-35k which is double the price of a clean S2000, so S2000 is the better value. Maybe in 5 years that will change.
Thnx
Something must be wrong with me. I finally got to drive my buddy’s s2000 that he paid 29 k for. Car only has 30 k miles. Car had absolutely no power while driving it like you would drive someone else’s car. When he revs it out it does move out good .And I know that I’m alone in not liking the car. And does feel 20 years old. It is because the car is so good on track.? No way driving it daily people love it. Im not that inept. I daily drove a nc Miata for 2 years , it was fine.
Fast forward Now Honda apparently IS preparing that successor which at first blush is so exciting....until one realizes they are NOT going all in like Mazda! Instead? It will most likely be a Chevy Camaro platform dressed up to look S2000ish...meaning a HEAVY and too big to qualify as a little sports car....That prophesy took all the wind out of my sails to be excited. I'm sure reviewers will say lovely things as it has become uncool to bash things these days...and hey for people who live in flat boring areas? What does it even matter? But for those of us who live in the twisty areas of the world? It HAS to be a lithe true sports car! Where I drive The sports cars I see FAR FAR most often are MX5s and Porsches ....hardly EVER a Vette or Camaro or even S2000 (which is mostly due to their being mostly GONE) I rarely even see lone BRZ/86s in the twisties! My theory is if it is super fun then drivers keep coming back regularly and if not? They just wont...must be more fun driving MX5s and Boxters/Caymans/911s Now I DO see all the other cars but mainly in club type group runs as opposed to simply individuals. BTW there is a huge difference between a car that is capable in the right hands on a TRACK and a car that is just plain fun to drive in the twisties...which I am pretty sure explains the glaring absense of corvettes etc in the twisting canyons
Veloster N
You never mentioned the differences in the brakes. Wtf...you missed really the biggest difference between the cars
With stock pads, there wasn't a big difference in braking feel
The 1.5 is the best of the nd bunch, lightest and Rev's to 7.5, I've driven all of the gen and my 91 na is still the best of all
To keep things / weight equal, you should have the first owner in the nd2 as well... rather than buck oh 5 owner.
20 years later and still struggling to come close to the S2000. Bless them. 🤣
Pssstt. It’s way cheaper than an S2000 (in today’s money).
phatboy5015 True that... plus they have an MX5 for every budget... drove my mates 1.8 mk1 before getting my S2000 and I still have the smile on my face to this day because of that countryside miata moment... it may have been brief but it sure was fun...🤩
You know what it would be perfect with 300hp. Hint hint
300 hp on a car this small is asking to crash lol
I feel bad for friend of yours that he got ND for a first manual car.. He would never appreciate how good the gearbox is, comparing modern manual cars.😂😂
Yeah, I still don't know why arguments for low-powered cars are always "oh it's enough power. Anymore would ruin the driving dynamics." Not true. Never true. More power is always better. Even if it's a 400hp MX5 Miata (which there are turbo kits that will get this number), that is definitely very usable power still. No one has ever walked away from a high power car and say "oh no, I don't think I like how that felt."
Naah, they actually respond from more reputable auto journalist around the world rather than 18k subs channel.
it's called a joke
@@shazmaster im trying to crack a joke too, just not good at it.
come on mazda 185hp is 1.4l engine category now days
thats because they use turbo. This doesn't. Also turbos make the car have heatsoak issues after many laps on the track and kill throttle response.
I dont understand the RF🤮 Get the convertible 👌
RF looks much better, is quieter with roof up, and is more secure from break ins. Also keeps inside cooler/warmer during extreme temps. Soft top just doesnt look as masculine and the rf give you best of both worlds of convertable and coupe.
The RF reminds me of older 70s corvettes and S1 lotus elise with the buttresses and flat rear deck. It's honestly a very refreshing style for these years to take a step back yet away from what everyone else is doing.
Chris MJ who the heck get a convertible to drive it with top up? The RF is heavier and super noisy with top down.
Regarding how masculine you may or may not look ... I call that personality! I don’t need a hard top to confirm I’m a man.
There’s a lot of reasons to get RF over soft. I wouldn’t even consider getting the soft one but I am 100% sure I will get an RF
Everyone is going to defend what they bought . Some of us are not so much convertible fans but love the MX5 driving . If they made a hardtop I would run and get one . So I bought a 2019 rf to replace my 2010 phrt . Waiting for edlebrock to release the supercharger for the Nd 2 .
"Drive" tattoo.... ? Lol
The mx5 is slow. Needs at least 250hp. Hell S2000 had 240. 20 years ago. Former 2020 club owner and 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata owner. Come on Mazda wanna be big boy car company. Put an engine in the MX5 or bring back RX7
Is it just me or does the stock miata stance look like it has 4 donut tires on it? Cringy
It's those skinny tires that make it so much fun to drive though. You can control the back end w/ the throttle and the slides you get are totally catch-able. Skinny tires allow you to do that. Fat tires grip and grip and then let go -- usually abruptly, thus (often) resulting in a spin or a crash. So for racing, use fat tires, but for fun, skinny tires are the secret.
2004+ S2K > ND2
Looks and sounds way better, S2K in a different league.
That being said, for purposes of creature comfort, I may pick up a ND2.
driving too fast in the lanes is bad and dangerous, find a motor way