Why wasn't this Britain's first bullpup service rifle? The EM1 with weapons expert Jonathan Ferguson
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- Heavily influenced by Germany's revolutionary assault rifles of the latter half of the Second World War, Britain sought a replacement for its reliable yet ageing Lee-Enfield series of rifles. The EM1, one of the contenders to fit this bill never quite lived up to expectations. Keeper of Firearms and Artillery, Jonathan Ferguson explains why.
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A select fire rifle with an integrated optical sight in the late 40s would have been really a tremendously fantastic thing to have.
tremendously ahead of its time
Especially if equipped with an under-barrel bayonet launcher! :D
@@Akm72 Said bayonet has a detachable pommel to end them rightly.
See FG42 ?
@@snowflakemelter1172
FG 42 wasn't really successful.
I noticed that the Royal Armouries website also has picture of the Finnish L-41 Sampo machine gun which is probably the rarest GPMG in the World. Would be interesting to see a video about this firearm.
Interesting
Yes
Absolutely agree
Jag har en polare som heter Sampo
@@roosterbooster6238 Skjuter han med maskingevär också?
This must have been so 'Buck Rogers' to the troops who were given it to use in development trials, coming off their bolt action Lee Enfield's...
It would have *looked* futuristic to most troops, but it is the difference in handling that would have caused real confusion.
What came off of their rifles?
The troops.
From what I heard soldiers who were given it for testing quite liked it. Especially the .280 cartridge.
@@rocknepoovey4381 the bullet
You can actually notice how Jonathan is in his element. He tralks with much more enthusiasm, because he made a book delving into that rifle.
Well and bullpups were and even to some degree even now are pretty novel. They’re more common but still, the AK and the AR-15 platform are the most common choice for post soviet bloc and NATO countries.
@@buggus0034 well, they are novel for many reasons, ones of them being issues with bullpup designs as well as AK and AR15/18 platform being settled standard so there's no reason for switching to different platform as main issue rifles unless a new totally game changing platform appears.
If I ever get the chance to go to the UK, the Royal Armouries is definitely on the top of my list of places to go. Just hope I'm lucky enough to meet Jonathan in person!
The Royal Armories in Leeds is well worth a visit, went back in early August for the second time and it was just as interesting as the first time I went, it’s all the more amazing that they don’t actually charge an entrance fee it’s completely free.
Don't forget that there are 2 parts to the Royal Armouries in Leeds. Both are free. But....the main museum is open to the public. The National Firearms Centre, is only open by prior appointment and you need a good reason to visit. You have to apply in advance. Very high security.
Is it mildly concerning that the best laugh I've had today was from listening to a museum curator get tangled up in his own analogy?
I think I need to step away from my work's bottomless inbox for a bit... 😂
Also: bayonet launcher gave a good laugh
@@bl4cksp1d3r Hahaha! For a second, I was thinking "please let that be true... Please let the British, one of the few modern armies that apparently still love their bayonet charges, even today (well... last record I can find is 2011...), seriously have considered a bayonet launcher as a viable weapon of war..." 🤣
Our poor little overworked museum curator is a little burnt out from cursed guns in video games from gamspot 😂🤣
Poor guy needs a vacation
Peter, let you in on a secret.
Work is over rated, and if you let it, will race you towards your grave like deadly roller-skates.
Hearing a curator from the Royal Armouries fail to properly identify the action and fire control group is a little concerning.
Thanks Jonathan yourself and Ian at Forgotten Weapons always give us interesting educational videos 👍
When I was a soldier many years ago , I can remember pn a range day ,two civvies turned up with boiler suits on in a van . They took the end two butts took out a pair of these and proceeded to rip through many many magazines down range . Always wondered what they were. Thank you very much !
Went to the Royal Armouries about 20 years ago. Fantastic museum for anyone interested in weaponry/history. Highly recommended.
He looks so happy and content holding that rilfe in the thumbnail
I would be too tbh
I am former Coldstream Guards. My first thought when you showed the bayonet was how would you fix bayonets. Then I thought thank god for the L1A1 SLR.
Cup of tea, slice of cake and learning about rifles. Good way to spend 15 mins
9:15 the “bayonet launcher”? Now that I’d like to see Jonathan! Great video as always.
Bayonet sent off with a straight face.
Quick! To the engineering board!
I have one small complaint about Jonathan's book: The typeface is too _blody small_ for my ancient old eyes! Boy is that book _dense._ Excellent though. Trust me on this. I wish there were more reference texts this good.
I've been reading mine at work, it really is excellent. I find the font size reasonable but I'm young and have good vision.
Maybe a reading magnifier would help?
@@Kav. I remember my granddad had one of those. A half-sphere made of glass which gave you a surprising amount of zoom when put on a piece of paper.
@@Kav. Nah, I just have to wear my reading glasses. Which sucks, because I had better than 20/20 vision most of my life. It's only in the last five years or so that my vision has deteriorated. Now I need glasses to read anything with a relatively small font. At least I can drive okay without correction, but I do have driving glasses which make me feel more comfortable driving at night.
Actually enamored with the miniature Puckle Gun on the table behind Jonathan. I found a full size one for the IMT in Florida some years back....
It's a small world (but I wouldn't want to paint it)😁
That's the one Forgotten Weapons does a video on! Cooo-OOL!
How did you find it for them? Do you have any of the backstory on that unit? It's partly original, partly modern - it took a lot of dedication to build that piece; I'd love to hear the story of how it was made.
ua-cam.com/video/GPC7KiYDshw/v-deo.html
A local gun store here in Yexas has a Colt 1883 navy gatling gun
One of the most beautiful rifles i've ever seen
9:21 Some madman in Russia has already patented something like that a couple of years ago: an UBGL grenade with a bayonet on it, which can be both used in close combat and shot.
12:02 There are still sights based on this principle, like Russian PO1х20 Rakurs, the only difference is that they have a much larger field of view. Their main advantage - besides the reticle of some range-finding value - is that they serve better for shooters with astigmatism, who can see the reticle more clearly.
Could you link the UGBL/bayonet thing, sounds interesting but wouldn't know what to search lmao
Cheers in advance!
@@mattwillerton6775 "Боевой оружейный комплект с метаемым штык-ножом" will lead you to patent and basically there no more information about it
@@mattwillerton6775 Patent number RU2691487C1 would give you what you need. I'm not sure I can link it here directly, though.
Thanks for letting me know of those inventions, it was a good google search
Cheers boys! B)
Looking forward to the next video on the bayonet launcher.
Hilariously enough, that would be quite easy: just take a GP-25 or some variant of it (I'm sure RA has one), and Bob's your uncle. The trick would be to find a bayonet-grenade for it, as it was only patented, but never built (I hope!).
Please make more videos Royal Armouries, I could listen to Jonathan all day.
Another great video. Perfect delivery 👌
This man is a very wholesome guy and I gotta say I hope I meet him one day
Tanks for your insight and entusiasme.
I could listen to John ramble about firearms all day. There is something special about listening to someone talk about something they're so passionate and informed about.
Brilliant video Jonathan!
Tell me how something can look so old yet so futuristic at the same time?
Is it cheating by referring to my signed copy of your book, Jonathan? Such a fantastic volume!
I love your videos and I enjoy seeing your passion in the history of these weapons
Nice that you plugged Forgotten Weapons. Ian does great videos, well worth a watch.
EM1! Really cool, Thank you! The trigger assembly and grip looks so like an FG42 second model.
I've only recently come across this channel from your video game gun breakdowns and I'm absolutely fascinated in what you do and you're incredible knowledge. I'm going to have to make a trip over to Leeds to see some of these in person. Great work Jonathan
Very interesting indeed. Thank you.
Thank you
I think that was probably the best description for the meaning behind the "bullpup" name I've ever heard.
The EM2 and EM1 look like a weapon ahead of its time and would have been cool, if it wasn't for the political and ambitious elements that took over the process.
Ain't that the downfall of all the kool shit from history eh
Your videos make my day, Johnathan, and I live in a country where it's basically impossible for a civilian to own or operate a gun. I hardly think I'd ever get sick of the sight of you.
As a daily watcher of guntubers, I'm happy to see that you succeeded to fascinate common ppl outside firearms enthusiasts into wonderful world of small arms!
Good engineering of any kind is quite interesting and relaxing. Sad that so few people get to find that out. More sad that so few Anglos get into engineering.
I know these videos are about the weapons, but I really appreciate the mood you're in here, looks like you were having a damn good day.
What a great looking rifle. It must have appeared very futuristic in the 40's because many components and features wouldn't look so out of place on a rifle today. I particularly like the fixed sights and butt stock. A very well presented and informative presentation, Jonathan.
Love the series Jonathan! You probably won't see this, but i was wondering, you do the episodes for GameSpot where you talk about a collection of weapons from a specific series or game, but what about an episode where you talk about a collection of guns at the Armory that you find the most fascinating? I'd love to see that :)
Korsac EM1 next? 👀
I was a bit disappointed when I went to the RA with my son and there wasn't a modern weapons section. It pretty much stopped at WW2. So most of the guns you see here aren't on display.
Good to know, I was going to travel to the UK for this.
@@onefulltimeequivalent1230 To be clear, it's a lovely place, a good size and what is there is very good. But my son wanted to see all the guns he sees in his games and they just aren't on display.
@@davidmurphy563 it is definitely unfortunate. The museum focuses a lot more on older history as that's what gets more of the general public through the doors in the UK.
Don't get me wrong, their jousting tournaments are amazing, but firearms enthusiasts are few and far between in the UK so they just can't dedicate enough of the museum to more modern firearms.
You could absolutely pull a younger audience by having a modern weapons section. Even young and middle aged adults who have played counterstrike would be enthralled by the chance to see an AWP or P90 in real life.
Probably a bit of politics. You can't miss not being allowed to have what you don't know about.
Excellent book.
Great video. I really like the mini Puckle gun in the background
That thing looks awesome!
Beautiful rifle i like the look and style of it and i really like the charging handle postion too.
Great video’s! 👌👍
Man, it's such a cool looking rifle. I would love to buy one.
1949? Damn. Kinda amazing how close they already were to the L85 we all know and some love...
The only thing this rifle has in common is that they're both bullpups.
@@Hellhound23691 and the stamped steel construction .
Really cool you gave a shoutout to gun Jesus at forgotten weapons ✊
I want to see the EM-1 and EM-2 in Star Wars. Since a lot of Star Wars Blasters are old guns greeblie'd up, this would be a super cool base for modification into a blaster. Just gotta slap a cone shaped muzzle and other thingamabobs.
The really great loss with this and the EM2 was the 7mm British cartridge. Still the right answer today.
Thanks a lot for the notion of a Bayonet Launch Platform, gave me quite the chuckle. I know, it has been a long day for me too. Been there, done something similar (didn't get the T-shirt). 😄😄
such a cool gun
Thank you for another informative and engaging video!
While on the topic of unrealised British Army firearms, I was wondering if you have access to a Ferguson rifle, and if so, would consider making a video covering it? This has the added benefit of Jonathan being able to crack the odd pun using the name. Thanks!
"Bayonet launcher".... had a good giggle at that one. lol :-D
The walnut veneer just above the pistol grip panels may have been to prevent cold contact burns to the web of your hand. They were quite keen on deep freezing the EM1/EM2 and the SLR for demonstrations to the general staff.
Bullpup also gives a longer barrel for a shorter gun still a popular design option
Think Jonathan just had his “wibbly wobbly timey wimey” moment with his analogies in this video lol
Could you make a video on some Artillery/ light artillery ?
The book is very good read. I got it on the kickstarter.
Looks like a quality weapon
And a good book it is.
Very cool video. Never even heard of this rifle before i played cod cold war. Very interesting stuff
Great video. Clearly the design had many features that would have been difficult to "productionise", the walnut veneers would have been horrendous, howeversome of the design features such as a carrying handle and unitary power optic sight were as radical as the layout. Interesting also that the layout was intended to reduce weight more than length. The current article in service might be relatively short but it is damned heavy for its role. . . especially considering it is made of pressed tin!
It’s amazing isn’t it, the British Army seem to be the only army that replaces its standard rifle with a heavier weapon each time, the Lee Enfield No4 was heavier than the SMLE it replaced, the L1A1 SLR was heavier than the No4 and the L85A2 is heavier than the L1A1, and since NATO are now considering going to a larger round than the current 5.56mm, due to experiences in Afghanistan, it looks likely that any future replacement for the L85 will be even heavier.
@@mrjockt They have purchased more than 3000 LMTs so far so for once they might break the cycle.
I think this is the only series where i press 'like' before i even watch the video.
The thorp looks like a 1800s concept for the Famas or the QBZ-95
I read that BSA made a rifle called the BSA 28P that competed against the EM1, EM2 and early .280 FAL but it had a lot of issues so it got disqualified very early. No one has made a video about it. I am afraid the rifle was destroyed and will be lost forever.
It still exists and photos can be found online, one of the very major issues was that it suffered an out of battery detonation iirc.
I believe the Royal Armouries does have one, if you go on their website you can find it in the collections section.
I saw one in the Small Arms School in the Early 1970's
I for some reason am in love with the bullpup layout of weapons and I have to say that the EM-1 is my favorite looking bullpup gun out there. If you'd put some plastic grips on it could be a modern rifle.
Kinda sad it never got adopted because it looks so cool but that's maybe for the better, idk
Put plastic furniture on a historic rifle? You dirty heretic
@@rootgotter355 it would look like one. Doesn't mean you should do that. Please no
@@rootgotter355 I will make that my next project pink polymer furniture a rainbow flag and the union jack on it probably some swarovski crystals lovely!
It actually got adopted in limited numbers for about a year
The most aestheticically pleasing weapon I never knew existed. 🥲
That's funny because it's uglier than sin.
For car enthusiasts you could say Bullpups are the 911 of rifles. *Allmost* all other cars have the engine either between the axles or over the front axle, but the 911 has it behind the rear axle.
The Porsche 911 analogy comes unstuck because some non-tossers have bullpup rifles.
Most supercars have their engines in the back.
@@fenrirwulf9266 They have the engine behind the passenger compartement, but still *between* the axles. Most Supercars, Hypercars are therefore "mid-engined".
The 911 on the other hand has it's engine behind the rear axle. (as do some old Tatra models and the Tucker Torpedo if i am not mistaken)
@@nirfz Indeed, and the original VW Beetle and Fiat 500 (not their modern reincarnations), the famously atrocious Chevrolet Corvair, almost every Alpine ever sold, the current Smart ForTwo and Renault Twingo (which are identical under the bonnet), several old Skodas and Suzukis, and the world's cheapest production car, the Tata Nano. Unfortunately that woeful drivetrain layout is not as rare as you're depicting it to be. Porsche is the only car manufacturer that has managed to make it work handling-wise though, after decades of engineering to counteract the layout's principal failings.
Not sure I'd apply the same logic to bullpups, because I actually rather like the idea of getting a more compact weapon without sacrificing barrel length, but I suppose there are arguments to be made against them, as not all countries with a respectable military have adopted them, and some have actually moved from bullpups back to non-bullpups.
@@rjfaber1991 I did not argue against the bullpub, i only offered a comparisson/way to explain to the car world.
(I was issued a bullpub myself long ago)
I wrote "almost" as the number of car models being rear engined is a minority vs the number of models with mid or front engine design.
All the old Alpines were rear engined, yes. But the current one is mid-engined. So not all Alpines ever sold. ;-)
The Tata Nano, i think is not present in europe or north america.
Currently i think (at least) in europe, the 911 and the Smarts and Twingo are the only ones you can buy new.
(So 4 different cars you can buy here with a rear engine, and only one of them has the engine completely behind the rear axle.)
I think you had a small typo, as the Smart ForFour is the same as the Twingo. (not the ForTwo)
Great video, when are more copies of your book coming to your store?
Book bought. Pick it up in November when we visit.
A bayonet launcher sounds terrifying 😂
And the most terrifying thing is that it kinda exists. A few years ago some madman in Russia has patented an UBGL grenade with a bayonet on top of it, which can be both used in close combat and shot.
@@F1ghteR41 shooting the object you intend to use in close quarters sounds counterproductive
Trying to persuade my lass to have a weekend away and come to the museum, maybe one day soon
Super cool bayonet
Really interesting, great video thanks! Was there a reason for the choice of walnut in particular as well as adding a veneer rather than bare metal?
I like the stamped steel look i think it 'fits' the gun
That gun in fact is in the Call of duty Black ops Cold War as a weapon in multiplayer Jonathan. And I was actually curious to see your thoughts on its depiction in the game.
EM-2 was featured in BLopsCW
Not this gun the em2 this is the em1
Sorry that was a typo when I was referring to the one in Cold War. My bad
@@misterbk1791 pretty much the same gun with minor improvements to be fair.
Shit I would love to imagine what his reaction would be to seeing this come by in a call of duty game of all series
The 1st Bullpup rifle is also a British weapon the Curtis in 1866 then the Throneycroft Rifle designed and manufactured in 1901.
Its a nice looking gun.
Bro! I want one of these!
"sick of the sight of me" nah man, I greatly appreciate your vids
Hey your book has a similar design to Ian's from Mas to FAMAS or whatnot, I like the uniformity in the genre!
It is such pretty rifle it looks awesome with its wood parts. I wish would be able to buy me one :)
If he looks at the Warzone Guns, he could analyze their implementation of the EM2
Forgotten weapons did a great series of vids on British bullpups developed after ww2.
A bayonet launcher sounds like the most British thing ever.
Me and a friend in middle school once got into an argument as to was the first assault rifle ever made was. He said it was the STG-44 and I said the MP44. Turns out we were both right because the weapon was renamed after it was first produced.
MKB42 technically I suppose.
Bayonet launching is brutal concept, not gonna lie. :D I really like an aesthetics of this rifle, wood furniture is the best.
I have one of those MK 7 bayonets. Mine has a light brown Micarta grip. It fits my Lee Enfield Rifle No. 4 MK I.
The No7 bayonet is different to the bayonet used by the EM-1 and EM-2, much larger muzzle ring. Otherwise they are very similar, two grip types exist, the original orange/brown and then replacement black grips which were issued to replace broken ones.
The sad story of the EM2: the greatest rifle that never was. It would've left a huge mark on the gun world, but as always politics got in the way. It gets even worse when you compare it to the gun that took its place: the godawful SA80.
The EM2 is the biggest "What if?" in firearms history.
yup
Nothing wrong with the A2 and now A3 variants...I do wish people would be more specific in their criticism of the SA80, Yes the A1 was bad, but so was the first version of the American M16 which evolved into their current M4. Things change and its annoying to have the early A1's besmirch the later A2 & A3.
@@Dr.D00p SA series are just down bad especially when you consider that they are supposed to be used as infantry rifles and giving infantry a complex bullpup system which does indeed have a lot of advantages when it comes to being compact, but this is infantry we are talking about they aren't supposed to be dealing with overly complex machineries unless they are combat engineers, thus most countries in the world issue non bullpup rifles due to its simplicity when taken down for maintenance and cleaning, other than that the complexity of a bullpup like the SA comes with smaller components due to its compact size, meaning some of the parts were prone to break down due to it being fragile thus the harsh criticism and bad reputation of the SA and it doesn't help the fact that the gun is a freaking clock it was difficult for the british army to break it down for parts change due to its complexity as an over engineered bullpup, unlike other bullpup systems that basically just put a pre existing rifle systems trigger in front of the magazine by routing it via a bullpup chasis
@@traphimawari7760 Have you ever actually touched an SA80 (of any version) to base your comments on, or are you just regurgitating internet lore?
As for Infantrment not being capable of dealing with complex kit, that pretty well tells me you have never served and have little idea of just how complex a role the modern infantryman actually is
@@traphimawari7760 nice copy pasta 🤔
I just watched the video where Jonathan reacted to the EM2 in CoD: Warzone, and I was wondering if some of the weirdness in that model could be explained by the dev's combining features of the EM1 and EM2, not realizing they were separate designs? The thing that stuck out to m thee most was the wood panel behind the pistol grip, which is supposed to be metal on the EM2, but is veneered in the Em1.
I really like the concept of the bullpup, even though the majority of them are aesthetically horrific, they are FAR superior for FIBUA, which taking into account the way that modern warfare seems to be going is a massive advantage! This is the first time that I've really paid much attention to the EM1, and personally I think it's quite a nice looking bit of kit as far as bullpups are concerned, and having that bayonet launching function REALLY will revolutionise the future of close quarter fighting!
Yes a few advantages for the bull pup in FIBUA but also one BIG drawback they usually can’t be fired from the non master side. So a right handed firer cannot shoot around the left hand side of cover without the firer wearing a mouthful of hot brass .
I can't see a bullpup without hearing Karl Kasarda say, "Nobody ever sat down to build the best possible rifle and just happened to produce a bullpup." If you're not re-inventing the P90, the juice won't be worth the squeeze.
Only one comment on Bayonet Launcher? Oh come on. I wanted to see that one.
Hilariously enough, that would actually be quite easy: just take a GP-25 or some variant of it (I'm sure RA has one), and here you have it. The trick would be to find a bayonet-grenade for it, as it was only patented, but never built (I hope!).
Ngl this looks like a Gambit weapon. AND I LOVE IT
Very Cool gun, great idea, odd execution, terribly complicated. I'd love to see you show us through an AS Val or a VSS Vintorez if the Armouries has one!!! Or do Spetsnaz generally keep those pretty quiet? Pun Intended hahaha. Cheers as always Jonathan, great video!
You've heard of throwing knives? Well hold my beer as I demonstrate my bayonet launcher 😁
Literally the patent formula for RU2691487C1.
Were can I get the book