Women's Ordination - Why I Changed My View
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- Опубліковано 7 бер 2015
- Ingo Sorke was born in Germany and was not a Seventh-day Adventist. At one point he began to study the Sabbath in order to show others how wrong they were about it. You can guess the rest of the story. Sorke spent years attaining advanced degrees and today teaches theology at SWAU in Texas. Sorke was also a member of the General Confernece's Theology of Ordination Study Committee. In this brief video, Sorke tells something of his experience and change of views on women's ordination, as well as responding to some of the common arguments that are heard on the topic.
Very well said brother Ingo. And God bless. The Lord needs more men like this to stand up for the truth. The truth is not relevant! It is absolute.
i don't believe that we as SDA need a study committee to understand the issue of woman's ordination. this is a very elementary subject that we don't need to twist and eisegete the texts (putting a meaning into the text based on opinions and cultures or feelings and emotions). the Bible is crystal clear, you don't need to be a Bible Schollar to understand this subject. When you pray and acknowledge the leadings of the Holy Ghost it will simply lead you to the truth. Thank you for sharing your testimony, well said, it's simple yet it is powerful. I'm glad we as SDA have freedom to accept or reject teachings such as this without losing our salvation. If they will approve this then I am going to be faithful to my God continually but like Psalms 146 says, "..do not put your trust on princess or humans..." I'm sorry NAD officers but this time, I am not putting my trust on each of you, I will trust and follow my God and His teachings, not your oipinions based on culture and emotions.
Damion Gardner1 second ago
www.threeangelsfoundation.com/2017/03/can-women-be-pastors.html
please read before you jump to conclusions about women ordination
@@damiongardner1417 no, we can't
JESUS WARNS THE SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS
Three years ago the Lord Jesus said, "Go to the phone book and call Adventist churches" because He said no one was reaching out to them. I then said, they're good people. Then He said, they believe lies. My response was that they say that God answers prayer on their television and radio programs. He said, they deceive themselves.
It seems that they are convinced Ellen White was a prophet and that her claims are true. People have placed her words above Scripture. False doctrines are lies and you know that heresy is a work of the flesh as declared in Galatians chapter 5. Heretics do not inherit the kingdom of God. So this is a serious matter. I became familiar with the Adventists starting in 1974 when a colporteur came to the door. He said things like, do we keep nine commandments or all ten? I was unprepared for a debate, but I never once was convicted for not going to church on Saturday. Adventists believe the Sabbath(going to church on Saturday) is binding from Ellen White because the Lord Jesus did not command it. The rich young ruler asked what he must do to inherit eternal life. The Lord mentioned the commandments of which the Sabbath is excluded. Of course Ellen White didn't think so. The Sabbath is not the heart of the moral law. Love is the heart of it: "Love worketh no ill to his neighbor, therefore love is THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW (Romans 13:10)." The two great commandments also demonstrate this fact.
The Sabbath commandment is nowhere quoted in the New Testament. The sabbatarians wanted to kill Jesus. In Acts they stoned Paul. Sabbath keeping did nothing for them. It was for the Old Testament Jews and is not part of the gospel. Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant, greater than Moses who mediated the Old Covenant as noted in Hebrews. Jesus is the reality of things foreshadowed in the Old Testament, of which the Sabbath day was one as Collossians 2:16, 17 declares: "the Sabbath was a shadow and Christ is the substance." This fact is clearly demonstrated in the book of Numbers 28:9, 10 where two lambs were offered on the Sabbath day which looked forward to the sacrifice of Christ. The Old Testament sacrifices, the priesthood and the Sabbath were abolished and Jesus became our rest. As Lord of rest, we just follow him.. He is "the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him(Hebrews 5:9)." We are to rest in His merits for we "are complete in him(Collossians2:10)" and "...By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works...(Ephesians 2:8-10)." Therefore,
the rest of faith in Hebrews 4 is not the Sabbath day. It is exactly that - a rest of FAITH, not a day of the week. Judaizers are accursed for pulling Christians back into the Old Testament obsolete Jewish system(see Galatians 1:6-9). His sheep hear his voice and a stranger they will not follow(John 10).
Paul went into the synagogues on the Sabbath in the book of Acts to preach to the Jews and their gentile converts as noted in Acts 13. The unbelieving Jews persecuted the apostles, therefore these were not believer's meetings, nor was the apostle Paul keeping the Sabbath. On the contrary, the believers met on the first day of the week - the day of the resurrection as seen in 1 Corinthians 16:2 and Acts 20:7. Therefore, going to church on the first day of the week is not taking the mark of the beast. Christians were meeting on that day long before the papacy came around to falsely claim they changed the Sabbath day. Furthermore, Catholics can meet for church on Saturday as well as Sunday. Ellen White invented the idea that Sunday church attendance is taking the mark of the beast, therefore it is dangerous to trust your eternal destiny on her "revelations." It looks like the mark of the beast is going to be a digital tattoo or a microchip implant. Adventists looking for Sunday laws or believe in a Sunday mark will doom themselves should they take the real mark.
Soul sleeping is a false doctrine. Jesus "brought life and immortality to light through the gospel(2 Tim. 1:10)." Therefore there's life immediately after death in which consciousness survives death. Jesus said that believers are passed from death unto life. Eternal life begins now in this life upon experiencing the new birth. New Testament examples are: When Jesus was transfigured before Peter, James and John, "there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him(Matthew 17:3)." The rich man and Lazarus were alive after death. Jesus said that the believing thief on the cross would go to paradise the day he died. Stephen the first martyr when about to die said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit(Acts 7:59)." Hebrews 12:22-24 tells us who are in heaven, including the spirits of just men made perfect, that is, the disembodied believers from earth. This is also taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:14: "...them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him." According to 2 Corinthians 5:6-9, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Therefore, Jesus is coming with his saints and for his saints. Since there is no soul sleeping in Christ, the bodies of believers will be resurrected at the coming of the Lord. Furthermore, in the book of Revelation there are 24 elders seen in heaven as well as other men as noted in chapter 15 verse 8.
Concerning the no meat eating doctrine: It is "giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils forbidding to abstain from meats. (1Timothy 4:1,3)". The early church Christians were told regarding food to "abstain from things strangled and from blood(Acts 15:20)."Jesus said, "Eat what's set before you, and it's not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, but what's in the heart." The Mosaic dietary laws were not brought forward into the New Testament.
Jesus taught an endless hell "where the fire is not quenched and the worm dieth not", but Ellen White taught annihilation or no hell instead. Consciousness survives death. It's safe to only follow the Lord...His sheep "know his voice and a stranger they will not follow(John 10:4, 5)."
The investigative judgment is nowhere taught in scripture. She made it up after the Second Coming did not take place in 1843. This is another made up heresy invented by Ellen White.
The U.S. in prophecy is the great eagle in Revelation 12:14, not the second beast of Revelation chapter13.
According to someone's testimony, they saw in hell the prophetess Ellen White in hell. Jesus said she is in this place for inventing heresies. She prophesied lies and still had connections with the satanists who helped [her] ministry grow. She also taught [her] members to keep the Sabbath stepping on My grace. Whoever wants to live in the law will have to never sinned. Whoever chooses to live in the law will have to save himself from it without committing any sin like Me. All the sects that reject My grace stare down the contract of the New Covenant. Whoever lives in the contract of the Old Covenant will be cursed and go to hell. Jesus said, "This woman Ellen White lied saying, 'There is no hell.' " She taught people hell does not exist, but when she died she landed in hell. Now she is in it and I saw how the demons tormented that woman. The more souls went down to hell because of her teaching, the more she was tormented. From the foundation of her sect until now, millions of souls are now coming to hell. Jesus said,"Testify most of its souls may come to salvation and ascend into heaven."
What you did by studying the Bible for yourself is what I did four years ago when our Northeastern Conference of SDA was about to place its first woman minister in our church. I pleaded with my church officers not to accept this until we have studied it out first but they went ahead and did anyway. So I got on my knees and prayed hard and for a week studied it out for myself and found out that it is not biblical a woman to lead as a minister. Now four years after look at what is going on world wide.
I believe God is allowing this to happen to cause a great shaking in the world church. I just want to be faithful and obedient to God's word now so that when greater tests comes I can be ready to face them.
Damion Gardner1 second ago
www.threeangelsfoundation.com/2017/03/can-women-be-pastors.html
please read before you jump to conclusions about women ordination
Amen!
The same God who made women prophets like Deborah and Miriam, who were both leaders over Israel as well, and made women like Priscilla teachers, and women like Mary into disciples, told you this, did He? The same God who had the female prophets speak His words over not just women but men as well?
Thanks pastor Ingo for your testimony ! God bless you !
Thank you for exposing the truth. God bless!
Thank you for sharing your view which would have taken some courage.
respect to brother Ingo
Dear Brother Ingo, many thanks, but I know one more argument and would be happy to read your comments: EGW was considered as ordained elder all her life (or something like that)... Thanks in advance.
God Bless you for telling the Bible truth.
“If
there were twenty women where now there is one, who would make this holy
mission (one-to-one ministry) their cherished work, we should see many more
converted to the truth. The refining, softening influence of Christian women is
needed in the great work of preaching the truth.” -Evangelism 471.
“There
are many . . . offices connected with the cause of God which our sisters are
better qualified to fill than our brethren, and in which they might do
efficient service.” -Welfare Ministry 147.
Very well said
I am not suprise if you did support the Women Ordination at first, because you are German. Gender equallity is a German way of thinking. Putting culture first before the Bible is very wrong.
I praise God for giving you the insight of HIS WORD.
Damion Gardner1 second ago
www.threeangelsfoundation.com/2017/03/can-women-be-pastors.html
please read before you jump to conclusions
@@damiongardner1417 I am a woman, former homosexual even and no, women should NOT be pastors, it is NOT biblical.
it doesnt mean anything to believe in gender equality or not. I come from a place where women are marginalized and I use to see women like inferiors but the truth is the truth God uses women in the preaching of the gospel. Why not paying them the same salary or recognize them with the same credentials?
In the qualifications given for "bishops" (i.e., pastors, elders, shepherds), Paul twice says they must be "the husband of one wife" (1 Tim. 3:2; Titus 1:6). Unless you are willing to accept two lesbians living together and call it a "marriage," there is no way for a woman to be "the husband of one wife."
This is Paul talking and he’s not talking about what God says but his own personal beliefs
@@nathanielwilson1899 Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ Himself, inspired by the Holy Spirit of God. You shouldn't speak nonsense!!!!!
Thanks for your message Ingo. I live in Nz and this issue is raging still in our local church, and country wide. A straight testimony will bring about the shaking quote. We recently had a straight testimony on the priesthood of men !!!!It sure has shaken the church. As for me I am no feminist ,but as you pointed out that is a straw argument. As a church we claim that the sanctuary is the pattern of heavenly things. Nowhere in the sanctuary can I find a hint of ordination of women. Does that mean no ministry for women ? Of course not !!! There is a chain of authority even in the priesthood. Not all priests were allowed in the holiest of all . Even Jesus humbled Himself under The Father. Much Christian love Pat (Mrs)
If you Chis Deweess of South Island hAVE him email me at healthmandl1@gmail.com.We grew up near one another. I was in China while he was inKakistan.both teaching esl.
...if you know Cliff....
In reply to Mr. Christian, our God of heaven cannot put only women in a village without men. Thank you.
You mentioned a lot of scripture what about 1 Corinthians 14:
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
This is quite clear, in fact Paul states that women should not even speak in the church let alone be in positions of leadership over a man in the role of minister or Elder, Deacon etc. What do you make of this? Is this scripture not the word of God spoken through the man Paul? Every time I hear someone in opposition to the clear text I think of this phrase "God will not hold him blameless who takes liberties with His words"
Doing the Will of Almighty God, is more important than anything you will think about, When we Stand 🧍♂️ be🧍♀️before Almighty God and give accountable of our life , what will we tell Him, the Church ⛪ cannot make any one Holy, that is a life we have to live before Him,
Praise the Lord you read the bible for yourself!
This kind of logic sounds an awful lot like racist logic. “Separate but equal.” Why is it we would never tolerate racism from the pulpit but we welcome sexism?
Here's another text. Isaiah 3:12
Bible first
Jeremiah 44:15-30
King James Version
15 Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying,
16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.
17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
20 Then Jeremiah said unto all the people, to the men, and to the women, and to all the people which had given him that answer, saying,
21 The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the Lord remember them, and came it not into his mind?
22 So that the Lord could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day.
To the law and to the testimony, we need to study both. The Bible teaches that the position of Pastor is a gift and Christ is the head of the church. The spirit of prophecy states that men and women are called to pastor. Women elders are ridiculous and I do not see how this issue ever came into existence. The spirit of prophecy says that deaconesses should be ordained. Ellen White chose to keep quiet on women's ordination which tells me that this was an era issue; if it were wrong she would have stated it as from the Lord.
Beverly James Where did she say that women were called to pastor.
g adams
Testimonies
for the Church Volume 6, p. 322. "It is the accompaniment of the
Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to
become pastors to the flock of God."
"Women . . . .
should be set apart . . . by prayer and laying on of hands."
(Review and Herald, July 9, 1895).
Xymo Nau If I have to choose between Mrs. White and the Bible I will have to go with the Bible and there is no way a woman can fill this roll and there is no example of a woman pastor or bishop,,,, Expeshualy verse 5 1Ti 3:1¶This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
g adams Eph 5:22¶ If the wife is of doing the work of a pastor in which is long hours who is watching and taking care of the family Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Damion Gardner1 second ago
www.threeangelsfoundation.com/2017/03/can-women-be-pastors.html
please read before you jump to conclusions about women ordination
Pure sexism
NO, it is not, and I am a woman and even a woman who came out of homosexuality and a feminist. If women's ordination was supported in the bible I would be the first one out there complaining that women were being treated unfairly - but it is NOT biblical.
I argee with Male elders and pastors. But don't understand sda stance when major teachings they subscribe to is from a woman who calls herself a prophetess.
EXACTLY - They are liars!
Because God has given the gift when a woman is made a prophet, but God NEVER had women in the temple ceremony. Never a woman, only men - yet He made female prophets even in Bible times. Also, the apostles were only men, this is the way Christ chose to do things. You take it up with God, He is the one that instituted this. Why did He make man the head? This is His design. Just like Jesus said He submits to the Father. As a woman sometimes this is hard for me, especially as a former homosexual and a very strong-willed woman. But I trust my Father and His design. There is NO support of females in this role in the Bible.
@@colinpatterson6249 and so are you. We have all lied, but no - the church is NOT wrong in the decision to not ordain women. The NAD and European churches are wrong in being in rebellion.
The ones who are in rebellion have the Rod of Moses against them for a testimony - Those who depart from the Biblical pattern. Those who change the universal into the personal and the social. AND of course if anyone gets their major doctrine from a so called woman prophetess then how can they reject women leaders - I maintain they are liars and you too!
@@colinpatterson6249 Mrs White referred to herself as a messenger of God.
What is ordination, does it transfer power or bestow the gift of the spirit? Does God require ordination from humans as a means of approving His bestowal of a spiritual gift? The most detailed description of spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12 has no discrimination regarding gender. Spiritual gifts are bestowed by the Spirit according to the will of the Father. Indeed ordination is merely a ceremony that publicly declares recognition of the gift which the Spirit gives based on his criteria to whom He chooses. If as the saying goes 'a mind is a terrible thing to waste imagine the eternal results of fighting against the Spirit who has chosen someone to possess his gift. Indeed we must cast off the vestiges of pagan and romanism which pretend to usurp the power of God and establish their own traditions.
Ingo, thank you for your presentation. However, other than listing some potential passages that may address the issue direct or indirect, you did not mention any single Bible support for taking your position, against WO. You just counted few selected views used by some common sense individuals, but you presented 0 (zero) Bible evidence of your position. I was open listening someone making the SCRIPTURE relevant on this topic, but you failed to present any evidence.
Xymo Nau...Shame on you, if you are going to quote sister White at least do it in the context that she meant. 6T322 is talking about being a "canvasser" one that goes door to door selling our Adventist books spreading the gospel of Jesus's soon return. The quote you took "It is the accompaniment of the
Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to
become pastors to the flock of God." is right in the middle of a long paragraph which is in the middle of a section called "THE CANVASSER A GOSPEL WORKER".
The second quote you use RH July 9, 1895 also taken out of context, if people would read this article they will see it is about God using not only ministers but lay people as well, the laying on of hands of the woman is for the work of visiting the sick, watching the young ect... This is done as a "supporting role" of the ministers and elders. Please don't spread YOUR ideas by not quoting the true and real context/idea that our dear sister wrote them.
We know good and well that the Holy Spirit spake to men "human beings" who then wrote the Holy Bible, not once in the Bible does it say that a woman was head of and or leading a "church". With all due respect don't cherry pick what sister White wrote for our admonition for the times we live in.
Your sister in Christ!!
Ah, poor openning...you seem to have read sister white...but you also taken her out of context for she never replied to people like you did...even to those who personally opposed her, and then ending 'your's sister in Christ'....
he studied women's ordination in the Bible? Good luck with that. Why he is defending something it was copied from another denomination? Why Pr Sorke rejected the divinity of Jesus?
Then in your Thinking, you shoul do read:
1. Corinth 14, 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace,
as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as
also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask
their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the
church. ..... Then this women on this video should not speak. :) Then
every women in der Church should be silent, no childrenprogramm, no word
in the church, women stand up an do it so, than we will see how is it
with out you in the Church... poor man...... :)
Twisting words, adding words, to another person's statement is the same as lying.
there is no Bible text about male ordination, what is he talking about? He is off.
The qualifications for being a pastor or an elder are spelled out in First Timothy and Titus. And since we ordain pastor's and elders...
I'm woman , to be ordained shouldn't even matter to a spirit , that's of the flesh ,
“Put a rope around the neck of the horse and lead it back to the stable” is not the best analogy .... kinda spoiled your argument, sir
Did Eve usurp Adams authority in the Garden of Eden?
Yes, they were a team but Adam was created first and Eve was given as a help mate.
Where in scripture does God say that a woman cannot be his spokesperson. Deborah was a prophet for God and she led the people of God spiritually. God gave directions through her. Was she not their Pastor. The words of Paul did not come from God in regards to women in leadership. I say this again show me in scripture where God prohibits a woman from preaching. Man cannot limit who God chooses to speak thru.
Correction, Deborah was a judge. In Paul's first letter to the young evangelist Timothy, we read, "Therefore I desire that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control." (1 Tim. 2:11-15). This passage not only prohibits women from "teaching" or "having authority over a man," but it also gives us the reason: "For Adam was formed first, then Eve."
After reading this passage some women might wonder what role God has for them. Paul explains that the godly woman "will be saved in childbearing." Paul is saying that women are to find their salvation by fulfilling the role God gave them, i.e., bearing children and guiding the home. I know of no greater work that women could do than to bear children and instruct them in the knowledge of God.
Women can do what ever they want to and be what ever they want to be! If God says don't eat of the forbidden 🌲, the woman will eat of it, nobody is going to tell her what not to do! She will also feed it to almost any man and he will eat of it too! That just shows how much power women have over men! Women have the ability to laugh at God, lie to God, tell their husbands to do something and he will do it! Then she will change her mind and she will tell her husband to get rid of that woman and his own son and he will ask God, 'what should I do?' and God will tells Abram, 'do what the one who wears the pants in your family tells you to do!' and the rest is history, on account of two women who told two men what to do and they did it!!! Then there was the woman who was told not to look back and she had two daughters who both had bright 💡 💡 ideas!!! If God had told one woman back in history, 'women can't be pastors, women can't be elders, women can't be priests', do you really think women would have obeyed God? The only way God could get a woman to obey Him is by using reverse psychology but unfortunately for God He doesn't lie and He doesn't tempt women to do evil, it just seems to come naturally to them.
Lets not blame woman for mens weak minds, but all that go against God. You will find that both genders will push this women's rights crap till the church shakes.
1st Timothy 2:14 Eve was deceived.....Adam made a choice. The fall couldn't come thru Eve, didnt come thru Eve....but Adam.
Adam chose Eve rather than God. Unlike Abraham who was willing to obey even to the point of sacrificing Isaac, trusting in God no matter.
Lucifer is a wise old serpent, no challenge dealing with men unless they obey God thru Faith.
Something we would all do well to remember....
Amen!
An let us also remember, the "blame game" started immediately after the fall. Ultimately by blaming one another, we blame God, our Creator.
Really youtube? Why was this crap in my recommendations?