The Battle of Zama 202 B.C.E. - Great Battles of Roman History
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2024
- The trilogy ends as the two great masters of the Punic Wars finally go head to head. Both are undefeated and both are cunning as they are lethal. The Battle of Zama is the final test for Hannibal and for Scipio
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Awesome viewers - Put a lot of time and effort into this production. Please help to make this channel grow and to make this video go viral - share on social media and spread word to someone who loves history! Get the word out! Give the video a like and subscribe if you want to be notified of new uploads. Contribute on Patreon if you'd like to help support the cause! Leave some comments and let me know what you think. Cheers!
Flash Point History these keep getting better! Great job.
Thanks! I still have to watch your latest uploads - looking for more cool effects to do. I'm glad you like these videos - I hope you don't find them too historically esoteric - I question if I get a little too detailed.
Roman empire leaders said that they will delete black Carthaginians people from history with the DNA of black Egyptian. Roman empire leaders were racist! Roman empire leaders were racist and had a belief that one race is superior to others. And their deleted black Egyptian and black Carthaginians from the history. But the Roman's racist leaders did not delete everything from black Carthaginians people, and we can still see the gold Carthaginians coins and African elephant's with lots of green food for the elephant's in the battle of Zama, but let's keep the lies between us for the superior race the Roman racist leaders and they copied everything from the black Carthaginians history. The Gold coins back in 216 BC with black face on coins.
@@mrgeneralhannibal7440 WOW! You text as if you were wounded at Zama! 2,500 years is a long time to be hating white people! Get over it! Life is too short! Transfer your bigotry to something else like leaders of the Confederacy. It hurts to be you!
Such a sad end for Hannibal
Great video man! You definitely did this epic battle justice. Bravo caballero!
Thanks Epi! I sent you Ilipa and I am going to send you this one in a bit. Your drawings were fantastic !
both generals deserved a better fate
Also, Scipio saved his father at the battle of Ticinus, if I rember correctly, he was only 17! So he saved his dad who later died in Spain. Amazing.
Yes! Two families that were intimately intertwined in the greater conflict between two great powers. Amazing indeed!
Thank you for this wonderful video! You did Scipio Africanus justice. I don't like that people today overlook how the survivors of Cannae came back to defeat Hannibal at Zama. There's an important lesson why Generals should do whatever they can to finish off or capture all opposing soldiers or else they could come back to defeat them one day. Redemption is a powerful, emotional motivator in war.
agree - it also makes for a great story like the new additions to the 20th Maine who fought and supported the union L flank at gettysburg
Scipio Africannus is the most underrated general in history!!
He conquest Hispain, Africa and Asia. He defeated THE GREATH HANNIBAL BARCA with a smaller army...
Roman Legions at this time where not yet the killing machine we known, Hannibal Veterans where the best army in the world.
He was Hannibal's equal - a master of the battlefield and yet he's completely over shadowed by the great Carthaginian. You need to check out my Ilipa Video - made it just about Scipio
Flash Point History
A really good video!!
Congratulations and amazing channel!
In my opinion Scipio is over shadowed by Hannibal because his political enemies try to destroy his legacy and minimize his victories.
Hannibal at the gates of Rome was something so traumatic that romans never forgot it.
You might be right -Scipio was hated by his fellow senators. It seems like in history many times the ones who are fierce or brilliant - but lost in the end are the ones that are remembered - Attila the Hun, Robert E Lee, Napoleon, Rommel etc. @@avalle4493
That cavalry made the difference boys otherwise... hannibal was getting upperhand
@@FlashPointHx Hannibal was also hated by the Carthaginian Council, they were so jealous that they caused the loss of the war because they didn't give any supplies to hannibal all the war time . hannibal fought by himself . I almost doubt that the war is not between Rome and Carthage, but between Hannibal and Rome
Thoroughly enjoyed this! Nice work!!
Hey thanks! Let me know if you’re up for a collaborative like this .
Awesome job with the video! the effort and time invested in it is greatly appreciated! Zama is a rare battle in which it pitted one recognized military genius against another. A rare treat for any military history enthusiast who like to fantasize regarding who were the better general amongst the list of greats! Zama gave a definite answer to at least one of those quandries, who was better, Scipio or Hannibal? I can't recall any other battle in which a timeless commander went up against another, perhaps Napoleon and Wellington is the closest one, although Napoleon was a shell of his former brilliance and partly shared command in their confrontation.
To add a bit of flare and drama to your excellent video, i thought i'd add some text from Livy on how daunting and arduous the campaign in Africa was viewed and that Fabius the Cunctator predicted;
"...that Hannibal would prove a more formidable foe in his own country than he had been in a foreign one. and that Scipio would have to encounter not Syphax a king of undisciplined barbarians... nor his father in law Hasdrubal, that most fugacious general. Nor unstable armies hastily collected out of a mob of half armed rustics, but Hannibal born in the camp of his father, that bravest of generals, nurtured and educated in the midst of war, who served as a soldier when still a boy and became a general when he barely attained manhood.
Hannibal...who having grown old in victory had filled Spain, Gaul and Italy from the Alps to the straits with monuments of his vast achievements, who commanded troops who had served as long as he, troops hardened by the endurance of every kind of suffering that is scarcely could be imagined by men, stained a thousand times with Roman blood, and bearing with them the spoils taken in battle, not only of soldiers but of generals. That many would meet the eyes of Scipio in battle who had with their own hands slain praetors, generals and consuls."
As confident as the Carthaginians were in the return of Hannibal with his veteran army to Africa, they did feel a sense of anxiety and worry deep down when they thought about the general Hannibal was to face. They reflected on all the achievements that Scipio accomplished and that the misfortunes of Carthage were the direct result of the conduct and valor of Scipio's alone.
According to Livy they ".....regarded Scipio with horror, as a general marked by destiny and born for their destruction". The results of Zama confirmed their worries.
Livy and Polybius were incredible writers. I used their work so much as they wrote so dramatically. This is what I love about the people who follow this channel -‘you are sooo into the history! Thank you for posting this ! It brought back fond memories of the research I did last year for this series.
I agree, i especially love Livy's style of writing, though generally agreed upon that he's the less reliable between the two, I do prefer his penchant for the dramatic! If you haven't already, i also would definitely recommend "Scipio Africanus, Greater than Napoleon" by B.H. Liddell Hart(a highly respected military historian who's theories on tank warfare were adopted and implemented with such success by the Germans in WW2.) and "Hannibal" by Theodore Dodge, both books are excellent, and the book by Dodge is very comprehensive! The books argue for Scipio and Hannibal respectively for an unbiased perspective.
A friend of mine gave me this book - poor Scipio - he won and was the underdog to history
I still think Hannibal was a slightly better commander compared to Scipio, even though he was beaten by the latter. Hannibal would've won if the Numidians didn't defect to the Romans. Rome also had a better organizational system which allowed average commanders to at least compete against military geniuses. Case in point, Pyrrhus of Epirus, who was a tactical genius, was held off by Roman commanders who weren't incompetent but where not nearly as talented as Pyrrhus was.
It's the same thing with Napoleon and Wellington. Wellington decisively beat Napoleon but I still think Napoleon was the better general considering both of their over-all achievements.
@@ocinomics3340 I would have to disagree, Hannibal lost his Numidians as a direct result of Scipio's actions, he took away the most effective element in his army and added it to his own. Thats 1 point in Scipio's favor over Hannibal already before they even met on the battlefield. I dont see how Rome's military system of allowing amateur generals to command proves Hannibal is a better general than Scipio? If anything, the system of letting amateurs lead an army is a detriment, a necessary one though due to structure of Rome's society. And the reason it held up relatively well and survived disasters was because of how solid the military base in which these amateur generals had to work with. Hannibal also seems to have a historically recognized weakness in siege warfare, although i dont push this point too much because it could've been just a decision on his part not to focus on sieging cities in Italy, a decision i agree with.
At the very least they could be equal. Hannibal's record though is not spotless, he has some major blots on his record. He was fought to a standstill or outmaneouvered on a couple of occasions such as at Nola by Marcellus and the mountains by Fabius, outsmarted by Nero at the Metaurus campaign which sealed his fate in Italy and outright defeated by Scipio at Zama. No such thing can be said of Scipio's career.
What a legendary battle !! I am just discovering and learning about the Punic battles now.
If you want the entire Punic Wars take a listen to my podcast 7 part series
Scipio the Africanus the greatest general in history ,always forgotten
yes. I agree - had to make the Ilipa Video just for him
@@FlashPointHx None other than the great military historian B H Liddell-Hart declared Scipio Africanus as the best general in history, and he wrote a book to back it up.
I believe I've read this book. He talks in the beginning about how the greater generals in history are overshadowed by those that they defeat. Wellington in juxtaposition to Napoleon, Grant compared to Lee, and Scipio in regards to Hannibal. @@craigkdillon
That's the Fate of some great generals as Wellington that beated the History "greatest" are often overlooked.
Very few times in military history do you see the commanding generals of both sides being so good, having plenty of campaign experience, and arrive unbeaten to face each other.
I adore how Scipio made use of the shamed survivors of Cannae a shot at redemption.
I never tire of these two titans and their monumental achievements. Good work.
Great new material. I really appreciate how you bring Scipio Africanus' military genius to life, as he battles one of the greatest tacticians in history, Hannibal Barca. I think that Scipio had a better army than Hannibal's, as Scipio had superior cavalry numbers and a greater quality of soldiery than Hannibal's first two lines.
Thanks - I’m glad you like the content. Scipio had a far superior army. Better equipment, training time, cavalry etc. it’s a testament to Hannibal’s leadership that he put up as good of a show as he did
That was one of the best narratives-presentations i have ever seen! Great job is a small thing to say!
I am so happy you liked my production! Thank you for the kind words!
Love to see a game of thrones or Spartacus type tv series about both Hannibal and Scipio.
It needs to be done - how can such an epic time period be so neglected by Hollywood?
Flash Point History one idea of how it's done is 1st season focusing on Hannibal while introducing Scipio. 2nd season focusing on Scipio's campaign in Spain putting Hannibal on the side for a while. Then the final season focuses one the 2 going head to head on Zama.
Hahahha - so you mean following my triology of battles as I’ve laid them out? Netflix needs to find me
Like in Game of Thrones, other than the two giants, there are many interesting characters to focus on. Hannibal's brothers, the other Carthagenean generals, Scipio's father, Fabius, Marcellus, Nero, the Numidians, Archimedes... and many locations other than Rome and Carthage (Syracuse, Capua, Cartagena...). There is material for many seasons.
Thank you.
p.s.: - Your battle animations improved very much
- I also noticed the amount of images you added increased greatly, not repeating the same one over and over
- The overall quality improves exponentially with each video
Thanks!! I'm glad you liked. Yes, this one took a considerable amount of time to produce. But I am happy with the end product.
oh, the Requiem at the end was a nice touch. splendid video.
Mozart has some powerful stuff.
This is awesome stuff, really wish you all the luck in the world, you'll get huge if you just continue.
Thank you!! I have a bad habit of being persistent. I'm hoping it will pay off. Hoping to grow this channel a lot this year!
Watching the Battle of Zama while eating Pop corn
Great video
congrats on your 10K subs
Ha! Nice - its like a movie for you. Thanks - I'm blown away that I went from 500 -> 10k in a year.
@@FlashPointHx Glad to hear that
BTW= What programs do you use to make these great video's maybe i will be as good as you one day , Maybe :)
So for the really fancy videos out there people use AfterEffects - which is insanely expensive and has a steep learning curve. I use Apple Motion and iMovie on my Mac. Apple Motion is about $50 and I basically taught myself how to use it using UA-cam tutorials. It took me about a month to do go from loading up the program to what I had here (and I was casually learning it). If you have specific questions just email me. If I can figure out Apple Motion anyone can. @@funhistory7640
@@FlashPointHx thanks
You have amazing video and you cover topics really well! For that I am subscribing!
Welcome aboard!
At the end, it was at its highest dramatical point !
This video is epic and interesting.
Thank you Flash Point History !
Hey thanks! I'm glad you liked it. Yes - I wanted to end it with that brief pause after the music build up.
I've hunted down many videos on the Punic Wars and Hannibal and this is the best breakdown I've seen! Great stuff man
Thanks - note that what you are watching here is abbreviated version of the Punic wars - I have an 8 hour series on my channel about this topic.
I absolutely LOVE the animations!
Thanks! I'm really glad you liked them! This one took me a long time to make.
How did you make it if i may ask?
Combination of methods. I use Power Point to create my own maps. Some of the drawings were done by my co-UA-camr Epimethius. The animation comes from a software called Apple Motion. Most people who do high level work use After Effects - but this is a VERY expensive program - you have to pay for it each year, and I didn't have time for the very steep learning curve. Apple Motion is cheaper and I just took some online UA-cam tutorial classes from the AV Ultra UA-camr: ua-cam.com/channels/0N-iKBpHZlhSFu6BqLsHWQ.html - If you look above he left a comment on this video. He's proud of being able to teach people the trade. Email me if you have further questions - the details are too much to post here.
Sad end for the two brave and valorous men: Hannibal and Scipio! May those two souls rest in peace.
Agree
I feel that Scipio and Caesar were in similar positions. Scipio decided to quietly bow out of politics, and Caesar decided to take it all by force.
Caesar was Scipio with the added ability of being able to put the politicians in their place
Excellent presentation! Well done!
Semper Fidelis
Bruce.
Thanks Bruce!
loved your videos! Please make more
Thanks! Will do
Great video!
Quito-Ecuador
2020
wow you're checking out the entire list of videos!
Oh shit, this guy is going to explode. Here before atleast 100k subs. Good stuff
Awesome comment ! I’m glad you like it. I’m loving the fact that I’m gaining subscribers like you who have a love of history!
Victory and Glory
Yes sir!
Better go bring popcorn
THIS IS GOING TO BE EPIC
Its the final one my Punic Wars - Great battles series - let me know what you think
I think Hannibal’s first mistake was relying on his elephants. They were too unreliable to do the job against a top tier commander like Scipio.
Scipio out smarted Hannibal in the First fase of battle and Hannibal in the central fase when He beat placing their veterans in the centre against the tired and weaker hastati while Scipio bet on the triarii at the flanks against the Weaker and more tired Carthaginean troops. counting on beating the Hannibal's flank.
When the Calvary arrived it was the end for Hannibal.
a wonderful video!
Thank you very much!
I’ve been checking out your videos. It’s next level. Better than Kings and Generals(not a knock on them)
Wow - thanks! KG does have some good stuff as well. Plus I know some of the guys over there and they are just awesome
Congratulations! You conquered Carthage, saved Rome, avenged your family, and proved yourself as the greatest general Rome has ever seen! Now bugger off
hahaha
👏👏👏👏 Bravo you are amazing I love this video so much packed in with so much passion subbed you shall be bigger than the great war channel one day
My pleasure entirely - making his video was a beast, but I’m happy with how it came out. Good to get such fantastic feedback from people like you.
Great vid
Hey thanks !
Seeing this in 2024 after Reading Book The art of war.
I find these topics interesting and useful 👌 👍 😀 🙂 fascinating how you made choices of music. That last one was like electric buzz in the 🧠
I remember playing the game on a Pc before 2017 Tottal War when I was a kid and where I had battles.
That game looks like this show how the battle starts. You can make video of a battle. In that game and that would be fun to do. I highly recommend
That will be круто
Очень Cool 😎 👌
Why is this not a tv series or film? Two of the greatest generals in history, the master (Hannibal) vs the young, gifted learner who took on the lessons of his enemy (Scipio) ; both have two masterpieces of warfare in Cannae and Ilipa, both lost close family members in the war, both were somewhat betrayed by their countries....there's just so much in there. They could even use the Numidian cavalry commander who fought on both sides as the framing narrator for the story.
Thats a really fascinating idea!
Rule 1 in contemporary geopolitics: Don't start a land war in Asia
Rule 1 in ancient geopolitics: Don't start shit with Rome
A land war in Asia?! That’s inconceivable !
Rule 2 for ancient Rome. Delenda Carthago est.
I loved the Latin quotations and the insight of the commanders minds. Keep up the good work.
Scipio had his triumphal parade in Rome after Zama and a slave riding in the chariot held a laurel wreath over his head as he took the allocades of the crowd, he would periodically whisper in his ear, "Sum transit gloria est." All glory is fleeting. And the Senate told him, You had your fifteen minutes of fame, now go away.
Fabulous video!! Subscribed. Thanks so much!
Entirely my pleasure! I’m so glad you liked the video.
How come did I not see you under my history radar???
Not sure - but happy to have you here. =)
hello well done looking forward for the next production . Note at this point in history, Spain did not existed no Hispania Roman province . The fought over the control of the IBERIAN PENINSULA . Thanks for presenting those graphics. You voice belong in Hollywood productions. saludos
That is correct, however there are people out there who are not very familiar with the time Or the history. Sometimes it helps to use more modern terms so that people get an idea of what I am talking about.
hello,negative, you job is to correct history, by teaching who are not very familiar . The other channels, preform no research what so ever, they just repeat some one incorrect work. I call them repeaters . This is the reason I view you work. you are the closest to explaining correctly the differences in political groups names ( kingdoms) , ethnic groups ( tribes ) , and the name of the geography ( Iberia peninsula) . It will be nice if you produce a video on the subject and educate the majority. Today 80 % of the people don't now Spanish is just one of the many languages spoken in the Iberia peninsula, and they are many ethic groups. thanks for producing all this videos . Saludos
I’ll keep that in mind - thanks
great work we are waiting for alexander ,caesar and napoleon battles
All people on my to do list. I'm doing the story arch from the Reconquista to the conquest of the Aztec right now. Take a look if you get a chance
Very good video, I especially like that you went more into some effects after the war, I have seen several videos on the Battle of Zama before but never thought about what Scipio or Hannibal amounted to after the war.
Although I personally really disliked the sort of side to side tilted parts during the sizing up of the armies portion of the video. Sort of just disorienting.
Glad you liked it - yes the post war world was fascinating. I’ve always believed these two men would have been friends if a war hadn’t of divided them. Thanks for he feed back - I’ll decrease the swivel a bit.
Scipio and Hannibal were both honorable men who put service of their country above all, yet ended up betrayed by their own
Well said!
550 years, that's a long time.
awesome video's man! enjoyed it very much!
Really glad you liked it - did you watch the trilogy from Cannae ?
Flash Point History Yes I did :-) Will be watching many more!
That was great!
Awesome - I'm glad you liked it.
David Graeber, “The ultimate hidden truth of the world is that it is something we make and could just as easily make differently.”
I've walked on the Acropolis and stared at the Parthenon. It was hard to look at beauty's remnants and consider the astonished wonder Athena's statue and the Parthenon's mature glory would bring.
How would the Mediterranean region appear if it weren't for earthquakes, volcanos, and assholes with weapons?
Archaeology at Troy has identified 10 civic layers with as many as 46 strata within these layers. What would Homer’s legendary city look like if it hadn’t been shaken to pieces and destroyed by conquest so many times in 5,000 years? Imagine the magnificence of its streets with so much beauty on display spread over a much larger area. The languages, art, songs, poetry, science and philosophy to be heard in the cafes and schools. Spread these scenes around the Mediterranean and humanity could walk around the sea on paved roads past legendary, to us, cities and temples. What would the Parthenon look like if a Turkish asshole hadn’t put a huge explosives dump in the middle; and, a Venetian asshole hadn’t fired the shell that blew it up; and, a British ‘nobleman’ hadn’t plundered the ruins and called it rightful ownership? What would Athena’s statue look like if the Persians, Romans and Nazis hadn’t plundered Greece among many others?
GFW Hegel, The Philosophy of History, “What experience and history teaches us is that people and governments have never learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.”
I don't want to say that to delude you , but Athens was the most warmonger city state in Greece . Most of temples were built tnx to war . They were more dedicated in doing wars even in comparison to Sparta . They even created a "league " composed of subjugated city states that basically payed tributes to them . The same was done by Carthage in west Mediterranean sea . Rome did the same , Persian did , Assyrians did , Egypt did . Frankly is not know of a single ''great " civilization not doing war
Watch this video like 20 times already and I can't express how impressed I am
Tho I keep getting pissed at the stupid Carthaginian cavalry that failed to keep the Roman cavalry away from the battlefield
Happy that you liked it and watched so often - I think Massinissa changing sides at the last second was also very frustrating - this battle could easily have gone the other way
nice episode
Thank you!
Very good video!
Thank you! Glad you liked it!
Good work
Thanks!
Finally you unveil the masterpiece! Great video and completely worth the wait! You did an excellent job explaining how the tactical brilliance of each commander resulted in a vectoral neutrality. I would have loved to witnessed this battle unfold as it was essentially a chess match: Hannibal made a move, Scipio countered and vice versa. It is humorous irony that neither commander was able to execute his tactical plan in the face of the opposing commanders deft counter maneuvers. Though, it is not likely that the Carthaginians began to punch holes in the Roman line: the impression that Livy and Polybius gave in their account is that neither side was able to gain the advantage in the wild infantry brawl. Terrific ending! It is rather chilling that both men died the same year. And I'll cosign everyone's compliment on your animations: they were amazing, save for Scipio, who looked like a malnourished wafer. Lol
hahaahah! Malnourished Wafer - you crack me up. I should have drawn him out to make him a bit fatter. Yes - this was an incredible battle. Masterminds at work. I'm really glad you like the animations - this was time consuming monster. I have utmost respect for people who do this on a regular basis and in the process just create art. This ends my sojourn into the Punic Wars. Time to move on to another time - as they say, Time for something completely different.
Lol, I think you should have used the animation for Conan and just placed Roman war regalia on him. You have my utmost respect for your animation prowess - my skill in science excludes computer science. I'm sad that this is your swan song for the Punic Wars. There is always the Third Punic War which you could expound upon. You provided an amazing introduction in this video - as you always do - and briefly touched on the Third Punic War. None the less, I look forward to the Deutch Africa Corps.
Oh and as a fellow history buff, I needed to alert you to Historicon in Fredericksburg VA this summer. I'm sure you've heard, but it is civic duty to alert you nonetheless.
I’ve always wanted to go to this! I actually stayed with a friend in Fredericksburg, but we were looking at Civil War battle sites. It wasn’t until after I get back to California that I learned about this convention!
Deutsche Africa Corp! Yess!! All in good time
You might want to work on your pronunciation of certain words, particularly Carthaginian ones like the names of Hannibal's brothers. But that is a minor quibble; overall the video is excellent. I especially liked how you went into the characters of Hannibal & Scipio--& of Masinissa's motivation. In war & politics everything changes yet the motives stay the same.
I think if Masinissa hadn't changed sides, Zama may have turned out very differently - what an epic climax to an epic war!
Excellent
Thanks, again ! :)
Scipio by showing his troops to the enemy was really imitating Xerxes...
Scipio vs Subutai. Who wins? 10k men each. 1 week to strategize. Scipio seems a master of strategy.
Subutai was in a totally different realm of military strategy. I wonder if Scipio could adapt that quickly
Epimetheus brought me here. Great stuff man i subbed
Good to have you here! Epi is an awesome guy with a great channel - nice person to collaborate with.
Really good video! Only criticism I can say is honestly just the intro was too long! Like the animation style and the commentary was great, keep it up
4plainlimbs i also could live with out the intros. Everything else is great.
Good feed back - this being my last video in the Punic Wars - wanted to add a little drama. Keep this in mind for the next one.
The most epic conflict ever.
I know, right?!
The second punic wars have all the parts off a great saga or myth. The terrible enemy, Hannibal, all the losses for the good side, the father who dies by Hannbals doing and the young hero who has to face Hannibals brothers and in the end to win even Hannbal himself. Before the deciding battle they even meet to let the writre have them discuss generalship and their personal conflict. Both suffer mirror problems in civil life and dies simulatniously.
Livy, the main soure, wrote this as patriotic roman ancient history, that means mythic elements, 200 years AFTER the real war...
Awsome videoseries this!
But Polybius wrote of it when many witnesses were still alive.
This is 202 BC. Livy was born at best 100 BC (probably a lot later)… I wonder how many 150 year olds or 200 year olds he met.
As I already said POLYBIUS wrote of it when many witnesses were still alive.
If not this battle Hannibal would have been the best general in history
I agree - to take an army that was half ready for a fight and win at Zama would have been a feat. I still think Rome would have won the Punic Wars but Hannibal would have been even more famous
Great stuff!! 2👍👍up
I’ll take it! Two thumbs up rocks !
Scorpio's success in my opinion was due to the fact that he would not let Hannibal out flank the roman legions
And vice versa
Thanks for this. Good summary. I forgive you calling the battle Can E. Its cannae, pronounced can-eye. But I know its a breach of the Constitution to pronounce foreign languages properly!🧐
Hi Nathan, I have a suggestion how Hannibal could have won the battle: by deploying the elephants defensively, blocking the Numidian cavalry - reiterating the battle of Ipsus 301 BC, where Seleucos neutralised the Antigonid right cavalry wing with elephants. A bloodless move, even.
Interesting - but how do you think Scipio would have reacted to this? He did have a very versatile mind.
@@FlashPointHx Probably he'd deploy Veliteles to attack the elephants. The Carthiginians had presumably no archers or slingers (?) to protect them from distance. Scipio could also charge his cavalry into the Carthiginian infantry line, presuming they would not be able to intercept them with their own mounted troops. But really Hannibal should have placed them at his rear and utilise them for the finale! With the Numidian-Roman cavalry successfully though only temporarily lured away from the battlefield, Hannibal could have turned his elephants to cover the back of his troops 🐘
@@FlashPointHx Scipio may not have had the luck for manuals like these 😉
ua-cam.com/video/8Bdk82xTNm8/v-deo.html
but I reckon he may even have come up with a solution for the latter scenario I described. Though I know only one case (Ipsus 301 BC) of defensive use of elephants, I know zero examples of successful counter-measures 😁
@@Crafty_Spirit The thing I found so fascinating about this battle is that the two masters essentially out maneuvered each other's advantages. They negated each other's genius of the battlefield. It devolved from a battle won by tactical brilliance to a basic infantry line brawl. I think both generals would have had the ability to adapt quickly to any tricks the other might have had
@@FlashPointHx Yeah I guess Masinissa was kingmaker in the end rather than a "student surpasses master" trope :-)
Long live Scipio and Hannibal. Only second to Alexander these two. May the fallen men rest in peace. Pyrrus wouldn't stand chance against Rome or Carthage.
Pirrus was defeated by the romans .
No he wasn't@@andread5560
mega chad scipio getting buried away from rome
Hey Flash what book would you recommend when it comes to the punic wars?
I'd recommend ANYTHING written by Adrian Goldsworthy. Try 'Ghosts of Cannae' by O'Connel, or 'Masters of Command' by Strauss. Granted they talk more about the 2nd punic war and Hannibal - but thats mainly where the money is at.
@@FlashPointHx Thanks alot! Your videos are top quality btw, thank you for your hard work. Nice weekend!
Hey everyone Dak says he's got this one!
For the algorithm.
On the Historia Civili's depiction of this battle, the elephants charged unintentionally. How authentic is that?
The elephant charge was intentional according to many historians such as B.H. Liddell Hart, Richard Gabriel, and Adrian Goldsworthy. Aside from that minor inaccuracy, Historia Civili's video was very accurate.
Maybe Historia Civilis read that somewhere and took it for granted. Nevertheless, thanks for your elaboration.
Perhaps, sometimes people unintentionally present their opinion as fact. No worries brother, always glad to discuss history.
Anyone knows a good historical novel about Hannibal and Scipio that begins with the start of the war and ends here at Zama?
Try the "Pride of Carthage" - good historical fiction
@@FlashPointHx Thank you!
And gotta say, I have probably watch/listened to your Punic wars podcast 4 or 5 times now, Every time I get the itch for carthage and rome always have come back to it ever since I found it.
Love your channel and narration
@@fanmovie357 Thank you - yeah take a look at that book it came out a while ago, but I remember it was really good. I can't remember if it goes all the way to Zama - but I'm pretty sure it did.
Despite your bad latin pronunciation ;)
really a good video.
Really..this took place 202 Before Christ Era??
Was scobio Roman or berber ??
He was definitely Roman.
Flash Point History well he the name Africanous so I thought he was a berber thank for the info
His original name was Publius Cornelius Scipio - he was named exactly like his father. He was given the name Africanus by his own people, after the Battle of Zama as he had defeated the Carthaginians and had "conquered" Africa.
Nithin strikes into our boring lives again, nithin for the win
I like the story but I have to nit-pick that, couldn't you have made Hannibal's image more accurate if he had a missing eye?
Take a closer look - it is missing ;) in fact we went through the references and while it wasn’t certain which eye it was that he had lost in the Arno swamp. The majority favors the left eye - which we whited out.
What about his race he was indeed afrikan
Why aren't you pursuing in video sponsorships from The Great Courses or Hillsdale College and other sources? Your videos are excellent.
Scipio, the Underdog who's success made weaker men jealous, Africanus, a man who's name should be as well known as the man he defeated. It's a shame that he died and lived in almost self-imposed exile, a fate deserved ignominious men, not titans like Scipio.
Scipio was a genius - I read a book once about him that had a very interesting opening. It’s stated that history, many times it’s the person who is vanquished that gets more of the limelight. In this case everybody knows about Hannibal. But, I think how much we know of Napoleon as compared to Wellington. How much more is Rommel regarded vs. Patton or Montgomery? And how great do we elevate Lee compared to Grant? As for sponsorship, I am hoping that will come in time. It seems to me that with UA-cam you have to hit a certain critical mass before that happens.
Somehow sad story, you should take consideration about the possibility of this battle being fake and made up by the romans just to justify a revenge from Cannae, also people tend to think about Scipio or Hannibal being the major factors of this war and forgetting that the Numidian cavalry were the winning card.
Awesome video, I can see that as long as your channel grow as long as you improve and get better.
Do not be that naive and belive this almost conspiracy theory about Zama being fake. It all make sense very well. As it the seems the biggest argument the Zama battle being fake is that "Hannibal was not in its normal self" but compering to Scipio who is surely the most greatest underrated military genius, it make sense. Hannibal had no ways of surprising Scipio because he, being good student of Hannibal, made sure he had all the same advantages Hannibal had in his big battles.
I've heard this before. Perhaps not that Zama was made up - but rather the numbers in the battle were. Scipio basically dictated his own history at the end of the 2nd Punic War so I wouldn't entirely doubt it.
Scipio might have been able to alter the numbers for his own good but yet he was surprisingly unpopular among his fellow romans who strangely enough had more admirations towards Hannibal. Scipio was not able to change history that much even if he wanted. And anyhow, number were not problem nor for Hannibal nor for Scipio. They were both happy to be in minority provided they were able to surprise the bigger oponent. Scipio was here good student of Hannibal, almost precisely repeating Hannibal in his battles using superior roman infantry.
Well said. I think if Scipio had his Aristocratic name, his proficiency as a general, AND political savvy - he may have had a bigger impact than Caesar. Alas, his political opponents mopped the floor with him. I wonder if Hannibal and Scipio talked about this and compared notes with one another when they met in Turkey many years later.
That "Hannibal was not in its normal self" is an incredibly naive argument. For much of the Italian Campaign Hannibal "had not been his normal self". He avoided the clash, or accepted limited defeats, every time he was not absolutely sure to have the perfect terrain-weather-preparation to achieve a decisive victory. Simply at that point he couldn't avoid the battle and wait for a better occasion.
Hannibal's mistake was returning to Africa. He should have doubled down on Italy and besieged Rome. Carthage never did anything for him. They refused him help at critical moments and impeded him at every turn. He owed them nothing. Very noble of him to try to help them nonetheless.
''Lure them away!'' - ??! Вы что, Ганнибала дурачком считаете? Приём ложного отступления - один из сложных приёмов конного боя, требующий, помимо отличной тактической подготовки, ещё и наличия скрытого резерва для неожиданного удара во фланг или тыл увлёкшегося погоней противника. Откуда бы взял Ганнибал столь хорошо подготовленную конницу, при том, что её в 1,5 раза меньше, чем у Сципиона? Дело в том, что ни конница, ни элефантерия Ганнибала не выполнили свою задачу - им не удалось сковать боем и, в идеале - рассеять конницу противника, после чего превосходство в численности пехоты давало Ганнибалу хорошие шансы на победу - слонов обезвредила лёгкая пехота римлян, а пунийская конница, по-видимому, не ожидала атаки и сразу, отпраздновав труса, пустилась наутёк, обнажив фланги и тыл карфагенян. И главный виновник всего этого - сам Ганнибал, пославший слонов в атаку на стойкую и обученную пехоту, а не на конницу. Сципион же, похоже, сам сразу не поверил такой удаче, но быстро сориентировался и постарался втянуть всю карфагенскую пехоту во фронтальное сражение, не позволявшее противнику прикрыться частью сил с тыла и, тем самым, сделав того уязвимым для удара конницы. Добившись своей цели, Сципион просто ждал подхода Лелия с тяжёлой конницей и, когда тот вернулся, битва фактически закончилась, началось избиение карфагенян. Всё, как видим, очень просто и нет нужды в театральной драматизации: один ошибся, другие струсили, а "старая гвардия" легла на месте, не принеся большой пользы.
Took me a while to translate all this. You don't think there is need for a bit of drama in one of the greatest battles of antiquity? The two greatest generals of the Punic Wars going toe to toe - two major civilizations locked in mortal combat? If I made this battle boring - would you watch it?
@@FlashPointHx Разумеется, с исторической точки зрения, здесь есть и драма и трагическая развязка, но я говорил о ненужной драматизации хода битвы, начатой ещё Титом Ливием. Поверьте, если полководец проявит неуверенность, рефлексию под давлением обстоятельств в ходе битвы, он обязательно проиграет. Поэтому изображать Сципиона сказочно везучим неврастеником, чуть ли не рвущим на себе волосы в ожидании подхода своей конницы, якобы случайного и чудесного, простительно лишь пылкому беллетристу.
What goes around comes around. Yet as Rome lives, Carthage remains destroyed. Rome is called the Eternal City. Like Jerusalem and Bethlehem, Rome is among the most important cities in Christianity. Rome is the most important city of the Catholic Church. Read Saint Augustine of Hippo's City of God.
I have - heaven and hell are not remote places but make up the very framework of humanity - it is our duality. I prefer Shakespeare - 'nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so'
@@FlashPointHx Excellent Reply. As Saint Paul said, the Kingdom of Heaven, or part of it is within all who follow Christ's dogmas. So too is the True City of God, or at least part of it. Unlike the KJV Bible, in the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, the angel telling the shepherds of Christ's birth says, Peace on earth to Men of Good Will. Meaning that if they truly accept Jesus with Good Will they will have peace. The KJV wrongly states, peace on earth and good will to men. Buon Natale from Italy, Sicily, and Sardinia in L'america! 🎍🇺🇸🇮🇹🎄
And Carthage must be deleted.....
ha!
Hannibal was not European
Hannibal was afrikan
Yup - he was Carthaginian
Unlucky Hanibal! At this point in history the Romans still fought for Rome while the alot of the Carthiginian forces were mercenaries fighting for money. Some say this facts overstated but I disagree as much as I love Scipio he had better trained troops and a committed Senate behind him, for all they didn't like his long hair
Very true - I'v bread that the mark of a civilization in decline is when mercenaries are the bulk of one's armed forces
@@FlashPointHx I agree, Generals taking there cue from Scipio, aided greatly by the reforms of Marius, in time led to the Roman generals and legions themselves being motivated more by plunder than pride and whilst not fatal this can be seen as a contributory factor to the slow decline of the empire.
@@staygoldponyboy8881 When Grant moved against Lee in 1864, The Army of the Potomac had learned supply and logistics from McClennan, it had immensely increased its communication abilities under Hooker, learned what not to do under Burnside, and pride in itself under Meade. It would learn audacity and perseverance under Grant. Scipio was in a league of his own, but the smaller tweaks that come before would have an additive effect
@@FlashPointHx Fascinating!
Amateurs think about strategy while professionals think about logistics!
Rome is a bench mark for such things, by no means working everything out themselves but taking good ideas and protocols from the past and from there contemporaries be they friend or foe.
I honestly don't know much about American history but given yours is not the first parallel iv seen drawn between Rome and the U.S it's something I tend to remedy. Just as soon as I can drag myself away from ancient history
@@staygoldponyboy8881 Amateurs only see one aspect of war - professionals can see it all. Whats that phrase from Call of Duty? Amateurs practice till they can get it right, professionals practice till they can't get it wrong.
naisss
Damn that is really cool how both in the end hated Rome, Scipio did for not treating him like he deserved which was saving Rome's ass! Then Carthage turning on the man who almost brought down the entire Roman Empire... Both Rome & Carthage fucked over Scipio & Hannibal... That is a cool ending... Governments are always corrupt & ungrateful.... Not to get off topic but it still goes on to this day... Its why I dont understand Socialists who want to give the most corrupt people in our country the most power! Conservatives are corrupt too yet they dont want the CORRUPT GOV involved in every aspect of your lives like democrats/socialists do! Name me one thing that the American Government touches that it doesn't totally fuck up? Im sorry but the ending of this video just made me think of todays politics
1:15 huuuuu SORRY BOYS but the Garonne river source takes place in the Pyrenees montains so your map is a little wrong ;p
you confuse with the lot river no big deal for this story but you deserve this spanking hahahaahahha