I've seen the videos of the making, especially where Lee said I can't climb these damn stairs but I wonder how they actually got along off set,was there much time they spent together unlike the 4 Hobbits who had probably a year together before everyone else showed up?
It's even better than that. Saruman justifies being 'all colours' because when you break up white light it becomes each of the colours. And Gandalf replies that, "He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." Burn!
Gandalf's reaction to seeing Saruman's color-changing robe is probably one of my favorite reactions in the books ever. A shame they didn't add that into the movies
I think they tried and couldn't achieve it in a satisfying, non-funky way. Although they also may have tried it digitally, not physically, and rather kept the sfx budget for more prominent things. At the same time I agree I am curious how it would look like done well.
While this was probably considered, it would be confusing to the movie plot in which Saruman becomes a Sauron servant and doesn't have plans of power for his own. Also, take in consideration that the blue wizards and Radagast are not mentioned in the movies, so becoming Saruman of many colors would be less impactful... Also also, leaving him as white does give more power to the reveal of Gandalf the white
@@kamalaparkerballs Basically Joseph’s coat He tried to cause the reverse of the biblical Joseph’s brothers envy with his coat given to him by his father
@@kamalaparkerballs The One Ring seemed to retain it's power even though most of the rings of power are destroyed. That being said the 3 rings owned by the elves and Gandalf lose their power after the One Ring's destruction.
@@kamalaparkerballshow the ring would enhance your own power? That's the secret and magic of ring making. It's not just your own power. You do things, cast spells combined with the fire you cast it in, with the craftsmanship and time you put into it, on certain times of year. Indeed a lot is your own power, the 'trick' is that you spare that power, solidify it. And a lot of power is from the fire, which in Middle Earth is power from the gods, and power of the stars (timing of the year etc)
A small little detail that I find fascinating (and quite typical of Tolkien's writing, proving that it is indeed high literature): When Gandalf meets Saruman (for the first time in the story), he describes Saruman's robes as of indeterminate colour, as you quoted, because they have all colours at once. When the protagonists meet Saruman and Wormtongue between Isengard and Rivendell, Saruman's robes are described as little more than rags, of a dirty grey colour so that it is impossible to say which colour they originally had. So their colour is still indetermined, but instead of being of all colours (a sign of power), they they have no colour whatsoever anymore (a sign of powerlessness).
@@JohnDoe-lx3dt- In the books Saruman convinced the Ents. Though ancient and wise the Ents did not understand the conniving voice. They believed what Saruman said about being reformed. Thus while the Hobbits were at Minis Tirith (sp), Saruman was off to pillage the Shire.
Let's face it. The Fellowship dallied too long in Rivendell. That allowed Saruman to arrive in the Shire and order the burning of trees throughout the land.
@@jonathanleonard1152 It is a pathetic fall from grace isn't it? An angelic being that helped shape the world when it was created ended up becoming a mob boss in perhaps the most peaceful place on earth.
There are three paragraphs in Two Towers, chapter two, that I always wondered about, where Aragorn says, "There is some will that lends speed to our foes and sets an unseen barrier before us: a weariness that is in the heart more than in the limb." I never found any reference elsewhere that addressed this. To me, it sounds similar to the effects that protected Imladris and Lorien.
Remember another conversation between Pippin and Aragon in 'Two Towers': "Once [Saruman] was as great as his fame made him. His knowledge was deep, his thought was subtle, and his hands marvellously skilled; and he had a power over the minds of others. The wise he could persuade, and the smaller folk he could daunt. That power he certainly still keeps." Since Aragorn describes the 'will' as creating a 'weariness that is in the heart', this does sound completely in line with Saruman's magickal powers. And perhaps Aragon is so certain with Pippin that he still keeps that power because it was just used ON him!
To me, this has been the only explanation that makes sense as to why such an elite company weren't able to catch the orcs. Surprised they didn't make more of this in the film
But they were, as well as Sauron, deceived, for another Ring was made. In the land of Rohan, in the cellars of Isengard, Saruman of Many Colors forged in secret Another Ring, to imitate all others. And into this Ring he poured his envy, his ambition and his will to master all life. "Another Ring to devour them all, and in Many Colors unite them."
As Gandolf says to Saruman on top of the Tower of Isengard after his capture: "There can only be one "Lord of the Ring" and he does not share power...."
It seems clear that Sauromon was destined to go dark side. That's why Cirdan gifted his ring to Gandalf, he never sought power for powers sake. Great subject Matt! Thanks so much 👍. 🖖😁🤘🇨🇦🕊️
Gandalf, when he sought power, sought to inspire strength and hope in others. This is the truest and greatest power, and why good triumphs over evil in the end.
I'm not sure if the Valar were the type of beings to tease each other, but if they were, I'm sure Aule got a lot of snide comments about how his Maiar were prone to turn evil, as both Sauron and Saruman initially served him...
Aule made the dwarves too against Erus wishes although he repented of it, so his maiar took after him really, that drive to create, even that which they should not .They only asked themselves "can I do this?" not "Should we do this?"
@@caos1925The problem is that they're prone to desiring to create while Aule does not. He is in keeping with Tolkien's ethos of "sub-creation", that a creation can only make use of what the Creator provides to them and so isn't a creator themself. You can make a ring out of gold, but God made the gold and the form (form in its philosophical sense) of the ring for you to fashion yours in the pattern of. This was crucial to how Tolkien saw the world. He applied it to himself and saw himself as the sub-creator of his own work for the exact same reason.
I have loved everything Tolkien since i was a young child, and I just wanted to leave a comment on one of your videos thanking you for delving into all of the finer details of his works, I listen to these (often times repeatadly) while i do houshold chores or attend to my hobbies and have gathered great joy from every single one of them. thank you so very very much for all the effort you've put into your videos and for the fandom as a whole!
From the very little Tolkien revealed about this ring of Saruman’s in the scene of Gandalf’s imprisonment at Orthanc, I always drew the conclusion that the ring-like his newly iridescent cloak-was just another sign of Saruman’s growing desperation to divorce himself from the White Council, the other Istari, and in some way pretend at being an imitator of Sauron (the one he envied most of all) and likely also to brag to Gandalf, displaying that he had a ring, as well. But the context of TLOTR tells us nothing of this, explicitly. And clearly, Saruman’s power was in no way bolstered by this ring, for it is never again mentioned, and when Gandalf ousted Saruman from the Council and Order, he destroyed only Saruman’s staff. Gandalf had no fear of any ring Saruman had in his possession or might continue to bear. All Saruman was left with was a fractional portion of his voice’s persuasive talent. He was utterly ruined, except for scheming. Strange, really, that Tolkien even mentioned Saruman’s ring and then completely abandoned reference to it.
Ring-making, especially after Sauron, was considered the behavior of Foolishness. It may have only originally served as a descriptor of how far Saruman had fallen.
What if because he made it separate from himself, his ring was the only reason he had any power of his Voice left? Then did someone take that one after he physically died?
What if it's power was greatly diminished once it's Power and his Treachery was known? Like how you would take a big penalty to Bluff if telling an Obvious/Absurd Lie in DnD
He sought to create order through power. First to oppose Sauron, then to rival him but he lacked Sauron's patience and so he moved too swiftly bringing about his ruin.
If you haven't heard of The Red Book I can say that he does a great podcast on the tendency of Aule and his servants to create what they believe to be best but it is only Aule that repented after learning that his creative vision did not meet with Eru's full approval.
Something curious: Three silmarils, one in the air, one in the ocean, one in the fires at the center of the world. Three great rings: Vilya of the air, Nenya of the water, Narya of the fire.
I've always thought too of those "lesser rings", mere essays of the craft but still dangerous to mortals. Seems there are some opportunities there to explore what would happen if one of those rings turned up.
Consider, Galadriel, and I suppose Elrond and Gandalf or Cirdan before him as well, were able to hide their rings in plain site. At the Mirror, Galadriel asks Sam if he saw her ring, and he says no, just a star shining through her finger. Saruman is not able to take the Ring of Fire from Gandalf when he holds him prisoner, and probably could not unless he peeled him apart bit by bit. When they all meet at the Grey Havens, Elrond and Gandalf's rings are visible for all to see, because they have lost their power. However, Gandalf sees Saruman's ring straight off. This would imply Saruman did not know how to get his ring to do this, and probably a lot of other things as well.
So many allegories to today; call me a pessimist or malcontent but hearing mere essays of the craft reminded me of physicists graduating from mere fission weapons to fission/fusion (teller/ulam)
Just a little theorizing on my part, but Saruman's ring might be an even more unpolished lesser ring than his skill and knowledge would imply it would be. He is wise and was working with Sauron while wanting to supplant him, so as a contingency he may have deviated enough from the template of the other rings to avoid his falling under the One's dominion. While this is probably unlikely, it could be a possibility.
I don't think he knew what the template, or recipe, was. His ring was probably of a similar degree of power that pre-Annatar rings would be made with, which is still nothing to be sniffed at, but... I think he was planning to get around to advanced ringmaking in the centuries following his joint victory with Sauron.
@@o00nemesis00o You could be right, but if any of the lore from Eregion was recorded somewhere, which is what I based my assumptions on, I figured Saruman would have found it. Who knows, he might have even sabotaged the records some to prevent others from learning more, slowing Gandalf's search later on.
Saruman probably attempted to use his voice on Galadriel at some point, but since she has a ring of power she was probably able to resist it and knowing what his personality is nominated Gandalf to be the head of the council.
As powerful as the rings of power are they are the product of hundreds of years of experience whether or not Saruman had this level of experience when crafting his ring we can not know
He might have had experience as Saruman probably practiced with Aule longer than Sauron did, who abandoned Aule in ancient times. But I don't think Saruman is nearly as talented as Sauron is, so he would be lacking there.
4:10 Saruman the F A B U L O U S 6:16 omg that's BUD SPENCER! Now I need Terence Hill as Legolas and both slapping orcs left and right at Helm's deep with Oliver Onions "Dune Buggy" at full volume! 😂
What I recall from the original stories, is that the Rings of Power (and the Silmarils too) did not have any power of their own - other than that which was poured into them by their creators. Now in the case of the Elves, I suspect that it was the collective vitality and joy of the Elves in middle-earth, that was poured into the Three. And this "power" was so great, that to dominate the Rings and their Bearers, Sauron was obliged to pour much of his own vitality into the One. Wearing the One Ring did nothing for Sauron other than to allow him to be complete - he was not greater with the One than he was before its crafting, it was just that it provided him the means to dominate the other rings - which is what he sought. Now in Saruman's case, although he may have crafted a Ring - if it was powerful, that power would have had to be instilled in it (i.e. sacrificed by) Saruman himself. I think it is likely that his Ring, at best, could have refined his focus and the execution of his power, but it is probably unlikely to have increased his existing power - this is inconsistent with Tolkien's soft magic philosophy.
I would disagree. The foundations of Barad Dur were laid using One ring, and they were indestructible till the ring existed. Also, the power to dominate other ring bearers was just one power, he also could read other ring bearers' minds. He gained a lot of power through the ring
Tolkien stated that Saruman, would in Mordor, after Saurons fall, in time, find a way to make a true GREAT ring. i Guess he meant if Saruman kept his evil secret till after Saurons ring was destroyed.
Taking on the visage of old men, naturally tells anyone that meets them they are wise sages. as wisdom is associated with age. that's why the term "Respect your elders" came about. as the elders of the villages were the ones in charge and were sought out for advice. So if they wanted the people of Middle Earth to take heed of them they took that old wizened sage aspect to get them to listen to their message!
Please make a video every week. I love Tolkien world and you are the best source for it. I will listen to anything you have to say. And I am sure you will find a lot of things to say. ❤
Fantastic! brilliantly presented and researched. Have you ever considered your own audio book adaption? You're voices are worth paying to listen to! Many thanks for your video!
I do have a question: If Saruman coveted the ring of power that Gandalf owned, then why did he not take it from him when he had Gandalf prisoner in Isengard?
It's possible that the 3 rings of the elves due to being made without Sauron's direct input couldn't be taken by force (a sign of domination which is the point of the one ring) and could only be freely given. Hence why Cirdin was able to give his ring to Gandalf. Just a theory. Another theory which has more support from the book is that Gandalf's ring would of remained invisible to Saruman It was only due to Frodo's possession of the one and his growing strength of will that he was able to see Galadriel's ring. Despite Saruman claiming to be a ring maker the ring Saruman bore wasn't anywhere near the power of the other elven rings or the one and thus it could be Saruman couldn't see the ring in order to take it.
I'm not so sure Saruman coveted Gandalf's ring, and rather simply took insult that it was offered to Gandalf when he considered himself the more logical and worthy recipient. It was symbolic of the Elves showing more faith, trust and respect to Gandalf and that would eat at Saruman's pride. Why not take it? Perhaps, because by that stage The One Ring was in play, and that was the real prize... and perhaps it may have been advantageous for Saruman to let Gandalf keep it, for if Saruman were to gain The One Ring, might he then be able to use it to dominate Gandalf through his ring.
@@dargron7614 Also, if Saruman knew what the effect of Narya was, then he would dismiss it. The power to inspire courage in others is unimportant, if he already has hypnotic powers of persuasion and if he would prefer people to be afraid of him.
@@o00nemesis00o It would still have magnified his powers of persuasion. If I had powers of persuasion and you told me that you had a ring that magnified your ability to convince others to be courageous I wouldn't be thinking "Oh lol don't need that, I'm good at that already" I would plot to take it from you and weaponize the combined power. Saruman literally wanted to have a ring of power. Narya would have been perfect for him.
I like the parallel between the one ring and sarumans greatest ability his voice. Both of them in essence are the same, they seek to dominate the will of other beings.
I wish we had a story about one of those lesser rings - one of those essays into the craft. Like maybe it suppresses hay fever symptoms, or helps you recover from a workout.
Hi, long time Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit lover here! I, grew up watching the movies and I still to this day enjoy watching the shows. One thing in particular that is not really mentioned in the movies, is the destination of souls. Now I learned from watching your channel a bit on what happens to elves and men when they die, but can you cover this topic concerning hobbits, dwarves, orcs, etc?
That was alway what my take was. Sauramon's writing is a bit..it had issues. IMO, he didn't simply figure out a way to make cool jewelry. I took that he had also gotten to where his cloak, and body itself also empowered, to have some amount of the powers of all colors, on top of gnarly powerful jewelry. It'd give him the experience, and umpf needed to make even more hilariously strong artifacts. He saw the issue of having only rings (or swords, pendents etc) get spells put on them so (at least tried to anyway) do the same to his clothing, and body to. Magifying all his atributes at once, ironically, that'd also magnify his bad ones to.
You have to wonder whether even a 'lesser ring' like Saruman's would have been subject to the power of the One, and make its wearer vulnerable to Sauron's domination. After all, Sauron could command his Nazgûl even without the One Ring, and the Three were subject to the One even though Sauron had no hand in their making - so might Saruman's possession of a self-made lesser ring have made him more susceptible to Sauron's corrupting overtures?
No. Celebrimbor made the Three with the Gift of Saurons knowledge thus they share a link to the One. Saurmon made his with the Gift of Knowledge from his master, the Valar of the Forge. His tier in this is parallel to Sauron.
@@davidlewis5312Both Sauron and Saruman learned this knowledge from the same master, Aule. It’s likely the ring was a lesser ring and had a lesser influence over Saruman, which led him to using the Palantir which completed his corruption.
These other rings were all made with Sauron, and likely had some of himself poured into them. The three elven rings, which were done without him but from the knowledge he taught, were free of his control unless he wore the One Ring Saruman's Ring was done without Sauron, so it would be free of him. The Perfected Saruman's Ring would have tried to control the One Ring... well, I don't think anyone could truly defeat Sauron in a battle of wills. Saruman is cunning, but Sauron is much more so. So the perfected ring might spell Saruman's doom.
@@davidlewis5312 Did Saurumans knowledge not come from studying the rings and their craft? If so, he would have forged his ring after the same instructions, as the elves of yore. Though he must have been be aware of Sauron's plan in the second age and should know that any ring, forged after Sauron's teaching, would be controlled by the one ring
@@racernatorde5318 I think Saruman would have likely been aware of the risk and made enough modifications so his Ring of Power would not be subject to the One Ring.
I love these videos… this is pretty off-topic, but have you ever thought of doing a collaboration with Charlie Hopkinson? He could be on an episode where he does the voices. I don’t know if you have purposely portrayed some of the voices here differently than the films in order to keep peoples attention on focus on the textual material, but if you don’t have anything against it… It would be a fun thing to see once!
I didn't know about Sauroman's and Gandalf's rings. I just assumed they had rings, but didn't see anything about them. (I haven't a lot of Tolkien) Saruman seemed too proud, even from the start (the start that I know of) Thanks for this explanation.
Makes me wander what would of changed if Cirdan gave Narya to Saruman. Would he of stayed good and not have been so jealous of Gandalf or would it of made if worse like empowering his voice or kindling the hearts of his Uruk hai?
It would have just given a dangerous man a dangerous artifact. IT was only a matter of time before Saruman would have fallen. The man's pride and ambition are simply too grand for his own good.
The story of how the Valar chose who would become the Istari shows that Saruman was already behaving in a petty and jealous fashion towards Gandalf and Radagast.
Isn't it amazing that the artwork of Tolkien's legendarium reflects the actors who played their respective parts in The Trilogy? We see Saruman who looks like Sir Christopher and Gandalf, as a wizard is now the prototypical presentation of wizards everywhere and, you guessed, looks like Sir Ian. Aragorn looks like Viggo, Arwen is unmistakably Liv Tyler, most of the time, Elrond is now without apologies, Hugo Weaving and Good on ya Mate. Frodo, despite being 50 years old in the books, is far younger and reflects Elijah Wood almost everywhere. We associate and can related to these marvelous actors who have given us a cinematic story that will never fade or grow old. The films aren't book/canon they're Jackson's best (and as yet unrivalled) interpretation, cutting out scenes and characters, the two the some to mind immediately are Bombadil and Glorfindel, all that transpired in The Old Forest and the Barrow Downs as echoes of first age lore. Their faces will live on for generations to come in artwork and as their characters in LOTR trilogy. As for myself, having read the Trilogy many times, I now think of these characters as the actors who played them.
I loved seeing that image from the Spy in Isengard RolePlaying Book - i collected the whole English series - I wish I could get my hands on the Portugese only book that was released in the series ahead of the cancellation
He is Earth, the most solid and stable of the elements. Some of his followers took it too far and went fash. Melkor, by contrast, was fire, the most chaotic element, and he wielded order only for the ultimate purpose of destruction. It's interesting that Sauron followed Melkor at first, but when he was left to go on his own, he reverted back to the dark-Aulëan way of totalitarian form and order. Order in excess becomes a type of chaos, since it leads to destruction.
Fun fact: Samwell was the only character across the entire saga who came into contact with the One Ring and wasn't tempted or corrupted by it - he couldn't get rid of it fast enough, and was entirely indifferent to it when circumstances forced him to carry it. This makes Samwell stronger in character than wizards, royalty or nobility, and more honourable than the Baggins family - the only other being capable of such a feat was Tom Bombadil.
Fun fact: the first official Brazilian Portuguese translation of The Lord of the Rings omitted completely the paragraph that mentions the Ring of Saruman, so here in Brazil we had no idea about it unless we read the book in English
This is off-topic and I’m a rookie so take it easy on me but how is the witch king able to break Gandalf’s staff when Gandalf had previously taken on multiple Nazgûl, and he had been reincarnated more powerful as Gandalf the white?
That point about what lore Saruman would pick up in Barad-dûr really kicked my imagination into gear...que a new, and never to be played, MERP "what if" campaign outline.
A fun detail from the movies; after Frodo destroys the one ring, all the other rings crafted lose their power and thus we get to see the ring Narya on Gandalfs hand for the first time when Frodo is about to board the ship to Valinor. This is because the rings (the one ring excluded) have the power to be invisible to everyone except another ring wielder.
Remember he can’t use Saurons formula or he’d simply be risking putting himself under the one rings control. So he had to in secret create a brand new way to make a ring while the elf’s openly learned and practiced for centuries under Saurons teaching to make theirs resulting in numerous lesser rings.
Talking about Saruman's voice makes me appreciate Christopher Lee even more. He really is the perfect Saruman
Yeah, he wanted to play Gandalf originally.
I've seen the videos of the making, especially where Lee said I can't climb these damn stairs but I wonder how they actually got along off set,was there much time they spent together unlike the 4 Hobbits who had probably a year together before everyone else showed up?
@@richardmaier28 I don't know, but I have seen the outtake where he says "look, Peter, I just can't get up these blasted stairs" haha
@@richardmaier28at lest there is a Video where Lee says LOTR was the best Crew HE'd ever worked with....
It was truly a gift that Christopher Lee gave that performance at his age. He was an incredible man.
“I liked white better” is such a savage comeback, I’m more of a movie guy but I love the lore, so these videos are much appreciated nerd!
It's even better than that. Saruman justifies being 'all colours' because when you break up white light it becomes each of the colours. And Gandalf replies that, "He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." Burn!
I love that Gandolf goes on to wear white
Saruman wanting to be Sauron so bad, he even created a friendship ring trying to match. Cute.
And pathetic.
😂
He should have cosplayed.
This was hilarious 😂
look they got matching names '-'
Gandalf's reaction to seeing Saruman's color-changing robe is probably one of my favorite reactions in the books ever. A shame they didn't add that into the movies
I think they tried and couldn't achieve it in a satisfying, non-funky way.
Although they also may have tried it digitally, not physically, and rather kept the sfx budget for more prominent things.
At the same time I agree I am curious how it would look like done well.
While this was probably considered, it would be confusing to the movie plot in which Saruman becomes a Sauron servant and doesn't have plans of power for his own. Also, take in consideration that the blue wizards and Radagast are not mentioned in the movies, so becoming Saruman of many colors would be less impactful... Also also, leaving him as white does give more power to the reveal of Gandalf the white
@@kamalaparkerballs
Basically Joseph’s coat
He tried to cause the reverse of the biblical Joseph’s brothers envy with his coat given to him by his father
Basically the same reaction as to that new rings of power show lol
Pride flag colors
If you ever feel forgotten, remember, you are not Saruman's ring.
Hahahahahhaha I audibly laughed HARD
To be fair, that ring was pretty worthless. He HAD to wear it. Can't very well call himself "Ring-maker" and then not have a ring to show for it. XD
@@kamalaparkerballs The One Ring seemed to retain it's power even though most of the rings of power are destroyed. That being said the 3 rings owned by the elves and Gandalf lose their power after the One Ring's destruction.
@@kamalaparkerballshow the ring would enhance your own power? That's the secret and magic of ring making. It's not just your own power.
You do things, cast spells combined with the fire you cast it in, with the craftsmanship and time you put into it, on certain times of year. Indeed a lot is your own power, the 'trick' is that you spare that power, solidify it. And a lot of power is from the fire, which in Middle Earth is power from the gods, and power of the stars (timing of the year etc)
About being forgotten, I really like that the movie makers put it in. Subtle but present.
A small little detail that I find fascinating (and quite typical of Tolkien's writing, proving that it is indeed high literature): When Gandalf meets Saruman (for the first time in the story), he describes Saruman's robes as of indeterminate colour, as you quoted, because they have all colours at once. When the protagonists meet Saruman and Wormtongue between Isengard and Rivendell, Saruman's robes are described as little more than rags, of a dirty grey colour so that it is impossible to say which colour they originally had. So their colour is still indetermined, but instead of being of all colours (a sign of power), they they have no colour whatsoever anymore (a sign of powerlessness).
How did he then get back to the shire before the hobbits to mess it up and play as sharky? Mans got some legs on him.
@@JohnDoe-lx3dt I would bet they did screen tests and it didn't look good.
@@JohnDoe-lx3dt- In the books Saruman convinced the Ents. Though ancient and wise the Ents did not understand the conniving voice. They believed what Saruman said about being reformed. Thus while the Hobbits were at Minis Tirith (sp), Saruman was off to pillage the Shire.
Let's face it. The Fellowship dallied too long in Rivendell. That allowed Saruman to arrive in the Shire and order the burning of trees throughout the land.
@@jonathanleonard1152 It is a pathetic fall from grace isn't it? An angelic being that helped shape the world when it was created ended up becoming a mob boss in perhaps the most peaceful place on earth.
There are three paragraphs in Two Towers, chapter two, that I always wondered about, where Aragorn says, "There is some will that lends speed to our foes and sets an unseen barrier before us: a weariness that is in the heart more than in the limb."
I never found any reference elsewhere that addressed this. To me, it sounds similar to the effects that protected Imladris and Lorien.
That sounds like something a Ring of Power might do.
It could be Melkor, as he was described as having corrupted the whole world with his evil.
Remember another conversation between Pippin and Aragon in 'Two Towers':
"Once [Saruman] was as great as his fame made him. His knowledge was deep, his thought was subtle, and his hands marvellously skilled; and he had a power over the minds of others. The wise he could persuade, and the smaller folk he could daunt. That power he certainly still keeps."
Since Aragorn describes the 'will' as creating a 'weariness that is in the heart', this does sound completely in line with Saruman's magickal powers. And perhaps Aragon is so certain with Pippin that he still keeps that power because it was just used ON him!
It is Saruman who is trying to direct them closer to Isengard.
To me, this has been the only explanation that makes sense as to why such an elite company weren't able to catch the orcs. Surprised they didn't make more of this in the film
But they were, as well as Sauron, deceived, for another Ring was made. In the land of Rohan, in the cellars of Isengard, Saruman of Many Colors forged in secret Another Ring, to imitate all others. And into this Ring he poured his envy, his ambition and his will to master all life. "Another Ring to devour them all, and in Many Colors unite them."
👏👏👏👏
"In the Ring of Isen, where Orthanc lies."
In the land of Isengard where everyone's a spy
@@naebhor6931 where Orthanc 'stands'
One Ring to Fool Them All,
One Ring to Wind Them.
One Ring to Bring Them All,
And In The WOKENESS Bind Them!
😂😂😂
First time hearing Matt do Pippin. It was fantastic!
Ive never needed an explanation so much and not realized it .. until now!
Yeah Debbie! I absolutely love the credits of patrons ending with Debbie. All the extravagant names plus Debbie.
As Gandolf says to Saruman on top of the Tower of Isengard after his capture: "There can only be one "Lord of the Ring" and he does not share power...."
Apparently even Tolkein disagreed with Gandalf, since he said Saruman would be able to control it and enslave Sauron to his will
@@CrusaderLogan So... the Lord of the Ring doesn't share power?
It seems clear that Sauromon was destined to go dark side. That's why Cirdan gifted his ring to Gandalf, he never sought power for powers sake. Great subject Matt! Thanks so much 👍. 🖖😁🤘🇨🇦🕊️
If you keep spelling his name like that, I suppose he will do
@@projectilequestionlol. A little harsh, but also a little amusing.
@@j-mc5201it’s the digimon of middle earth, sauromon
Gandalf, when he sought power, sought to inspire strength and hope in others. This is the truest and greatest power, and why good triumphs over evil in the end.
@@kamalaparkerballsMaking up scenarios to get outraged at, eh?
I'm not sure if the Valar were the type of beings to tease each other, but if they were, I'm sure Aule got a lot of snide comments about how his Maiar were prone to turn evil, as both Sauron and Saruman initially served him...
Aule made the dwarves too against Erus wishes although he repented of it, so his maiar took after him really, that drive to create, even that which they should not .They only asked themselves "can I do this?" not "Should we do this?"
@@caos1925The problem is that they're prone to desiring to create while Aule does not. He is in keeping with Tolkien's ethos of "sub-creation", that a creation can only make use of what the Creator provides to them and so isn't a creator themself. You can make a ring out of gold, but God made the gold and the form (form in its philosophical sense) of the ring for you to fashion yours in the pattern of.
This was crucial to how Tolkien saw the world. He applied it to himself and saw himself as the sub-creator of his own work for the exact same reason.
I'm sure the balrogs came from all camps, so not even manwe would have a leg to stand on
aule would then say to manwe: how's your brother doin?
“Hmm… Aule… we need to discuss your servants…”
I have loved everything Tolkien since i was a young child, and I just wanted to leave a comment on one of your videos thanking you for delving into all of the finer details of his works, I listen to these (often times repeatadly) while i do houshold chores or attend to my hobbies and have gathered great joy from every single one of them. thank you so very very much for all the effort you've put into your videos and for the fandom as a whole!
Same here😊 it gives me such joy to listen to The Nerd of the Rings and escape from mundane everyday life.
From the very little Tolkien revealed about this ring of Saruman’s in the scene of Gandalf’s imprisonment at Orthanc, I always drew the conclusion that the ring-like his newly iridescent cloak-was just another sign of Saruman’s growing desperation to divorce himself from the White Council, the other Istari, and in some way pretend at being an imitator of Sauron (the one he envied most of all) and likely also to brag to Gandalf, displaying that he had a ring, as well. But the context of TLOTR tells us nothing of this, explicitly. And clearly, Saruman’s power was in no way bolstered by this ring, for it is never again mentioned, and when Gandalf ousted Saruman from the Council and Order, he destroyed only Saruman’s staff. Gandalf had no fear of any ring Saruman had in his possession or might continue to bear. All Saruman was left with was a fractional portion of his voice’s persuasive talent. He was utterly ruined, except for scheming. Strange, really, that Tolkien even mentioned Saruman’s ring and then completely abandoned reference to it.
Well, rather than setup for a payoff all by itself, it's part of what makes up the setup (pride and imitation of Sauron) for his later fall.
Tolkien says Saruman studied saurons lore and could have forged a new master ring if he got to search the ruins of Mordor.
Ring-making, especially after Sauron, was considered the behavior of Foolishness. It may have only originally served as a descriptor of how far Saruman had fallen.
What if because he made it separate from himself, his ring was the only reason he had any power of his Voice left? Then did someone take that one after he physically died?
What if it's power was greatly diminished once it's Power and his Treachery was known? Like how you would take a big penalty to Bluff if telling an Obvious/Absurd Lie in DnD
He sought to create order through power. First to oppose Sauron, then to rival him but he lacked Sauron's patience and so he moved too swiftly bringing about his ruin.
“Bringing about his ruin” 🤣 written like Tolkien himself. Love it 😎
If you haven't heard of The Red Book I can say that he does a great podcast on the tendency of Aule and his servants to create what they believe to be best but it is only Aule that repented after learning that his creative vision did not meet with Eru's full approval.
Something curious:
Three silmarils, one in the air, one in the ocean, one in the fires at the center of the world.
Three great rings: Vilya of the air, Nenya of the water, Narya of the fire.
Celebrimbror is Feanors nephew I believe, who created the Silmarils, so it makes sense to honor his work.
@@cfgonyea His grandson actually. Celebrimbor's father is Curufin, one of Feanor's seven sons
@@psychic_beth either way they’re related and Celebrimbror obviously designed the great rings in homage to Feanor lol
@psychic_beth @cfgonyea Damn…. And I thought I was a lord of the rings fan…… #Knowledge 🤣🤣
@@eddiehughes929 Yooooo #lotrfan #lore #youtubecommentsection #eddie #clever
You know, I can see Saruman's ring to be the main center story for Tolkien's incomplete sequel The New Shadow.
I've always thought too of those "lesser rings", mere essays of the craft but still dangerous to mortals. Seems there are some opportunities there to explore what would happen if one of those rings turned up.
4:54 haha nice“ Sauron, the Lord of the Rings himself“
Galadriel: "But they were all of them deceived, for another, *other* ring was made..."
Trained actor here: Your reading of Sarumans Lines was really good!
All the valar must be looking at Aule and saying Damn not another one bro!!! 🤦♂️ another great video NOTR
He has a rough track record
Perhaps Sam pockets Saruman’s ring after he is killed by Wormtongue, which explains why Sam was voted Mayor over and over again.
Given the Hell him and Frodo went through with the One Ring, I doubt it.
@@concept5631Still . . . ROTFLMAO! I never even thought it! It's so obvious . . .
honestly, I like some of the drawings of locations in your video, than what they looked like in the movie
I’ve never been more mesmerized watching the same images looping over and over again. That’s some skill you got there.
Consider, Galadriel, and I suppose Elrond and Gandalf or Cirdan before him as well, were able to hide their rings in plain site. At the Mirror, Galadriel asks Sam if he saw her ring, and he says no, just a star shining through her finger. Saruman is not able to take the Ring of Fire from Gandalf when he holds him prisoner, and probably could not unless he peeled him apart bit by bit. When they all meet at the Grey Havens, Elrond and Gandalf's rings are visible for all to see, because they have lost their power.
However, Gandalf sees Saruman's ring straight off. This would imply Saruman did not know how to get his ring to do this, and probably a lot of other things as well.
These videos provide a depth of explanation that is rarely seen in UA-cam, thank you for offering videos of this quality!
Another excellent collection of lore! Thanks for making this one
Your Pippin voice is spot on! Love your videos. They help brighten up my otherwise dark days. Thank you and cheers, mate 🍻
It’s not lol
Thank you for sharing real art and where to find the artist. It’s much appreciated.
So many allegories to today; call me a pessimist or malcontent but hearing mere essays of the craft reminded me of physicists graduating from mere fission weapons to fission/fusion (teller/ulam)
I love this content, the different voices, their accents, just incredible work. Thanks so much for sharing!❤
God bless you and your work sir. 💜💜💜 respect from Croatia-europe 💜💜💜
Just a little theorizing on my part, but Saruman's ring might be an even more unpolished lesser ring than his skill and knowledge would imply it would be. He is wise and was working with Sauron while wanting to supplant him, so as a contingency he may have deviated enough from the template of the other rings to avoid his falling under the One's dominion. While this is probably unlikely, it could be a possibility.
I don't think he knew what the template, or recipe, was. His ring was probably of a similar degree of power that pre-Annatar rings would be made with, which is still nothing to be sniffed at, but... I think he was planning to get around to advanced ringmaking in the centuries following his joint victory with Sauron.
@@o00nemesis00o You could be right, but if any of the lore from Eregion was recorded somewhere, which is what I based my assumptions on, I figured Saruman would have found it. Who knows, he might have even sabotaged the records some to prevent others from learning more, slowing Gandalf's search later on.
I'd always remember Christopher Lee's Saruman: We have work to do!
Saruman probably attempted to use his voice on Galadriel at some point, but since she has a ring of power she was probably able to resist it and knowing what his personality is nominated Gandalf to be the head of the council.
Can I just mention how flipping good this dude's voice acting is? I would buy an audiobook read by him.
Permission granted.
Not the pippin one though. That’s a dreadful Scottish accent impression
It seems like something of a plot hole that Saruman didn't take Narya from Gandalf when he imprisoned him in Orthanc.
As powerful as the rings of power are they are the product of hundreds of years of experience whether or not Saruman had this level of experience when crafting his ring we can not know
He might have had experience as Saruman probably practiced with Aule longer than Sauron did, who abandoned Aule in ancient times. But I don't think Saruman is nearly as talented as Sauron is, so he would be lacking there.
as Treebeard said after Sarumans demise"he was always hasty,that was his downfall"
4:10 Saruman the F A B U L O U S
6:16 omg that's BUD SPENCER! Now I need Terence Hill as Legolas and both slapping orcs left and right at Helm's deep with Oliver Onions "Dune Buggy" at full volume! 😂
Excellent as always! I learned quite a bit with this episode, thank you!
Something to keep in mind - Saruman's ring is the only ring other than the One Ring, made solely by a Maia.
What I recall from the original stories, is that the Rings of Power (and the Silmarils too) did not have any power of their own - other than that which was poured into them by their creators. Now in the case of the Elves, I suspect that it was the collective vitality and joy of the Elves in middle-earth, that was poured into the Three. And this "power" was so great, that to dominate the Rings and their Bearers, Sauron was obliged to pour much of his own vitality into the One. Wearing the One Ring did nothing for Sauron other than to allow him to be complete - he was not greater with the One than he was before its crafting, it was just that it provided him the means to dominate the other rings - which is what he sought.
Now in Saruman's case, although he may have crafted a Ring - if it was powerful, that power would have had to be instilled in it (i.e. sacrificed by) Saruman himself. I think it is likely that his Ring, at best, could have refined his focus and the execution of his power, but it is probably unlikely to have increased his existing power - this is inconsistent with Tolkien's soft magic philosophy.
I would disagree. The foundations of Barad Dur were laid using One ring, and they were indestructible till the ring existed. Also, the power to dominate other ring bearers was just one power, he also could read other ring bearers' minds. He gained a lot of power through the ring
Tolkien stated that Saruman, would in Mordor, after Saurons fall, in time, find a way to make a true GREAT ring. i Guess he meant if Saruman kept his evil secret till after Saurons ring was destroyed.
Exactly. Saruman had the skills to imitate saurons skill
Taking on the visage of old men, naturally tells anyone that meets them they are wise sages. as wisdom is associated with age. that's why the term "Respect your elders" came about. as the elders of the villages were the ones in charge and were sought out for advice. So if they wanted the people of Middle Earth to take heed of them they took that old wizened sage aspect to get them to listen to their message!
Please make a video every week. I love Tolkien world and you are the best source for it. I will listen to anything you have to say. And I am sure you will find a lot of things to say. ❤
Saruman really was just predisposed to becoming a villain from day one. His arrogance was only surpassed by Sauron's
And Saurons arrogance was surpassed by Morgoth
Fantastic! brilliantly presented and researched. Have you ever considered your own audio book adaption? You're voices are worth paying to listen to! Many thanks for your video!
Aule sure knows how to pick servants lol. Both Sauron and Saruman both ended up evil tyrants and with a hunger for power.
Love your vids, what about a video explaining the fellowship before the fellowship
Saruman’s voice: I shed the blood of a Saxon man! I shed the blood of Four Thousand Saxon men!
Your accents are really good..... appreciated
Perfect weekend for orb pondering...
I do have a question:
If Saruman coveted the ring of power that Gandalf owned, then why did he not take it from him when he had Gandalf prisoner in Isengard?
It's possible that the 3 rings of the elves due to being made without Sauron's direct input couldn't be taken by force (a sign of domination which is the point of the one ring) and could only be freely given. Hence why Cirdin was able to give his ring to Gandalf. Just a theory.
Another theory which has more support from the book is that Gandalf's ring would of remained invisible to Saruman It was only due to Frodo's possession of the one and his growing strength of will that he was able to see Galadriel's ring. Despite Saruman claiming to be a ring maker the ring Saruman bore wasn't anywhere near the power of the other elven rings or the one and thus it could be Saruman couldn't see the ring in order to take it.
I'm not so sure Saruman coveted Gandalf's ring, and rather simply took insult that it was offered to Gandalf when he considered himself the more logical and worthy recipient. It was symbolic of the Elves showing more faith, trust and respect to Gandalf and that would eat at Saruman's pride.
Why not take it? Perhaps, because by that stage The One Ring was in play, and that was the real prize... and perhaps it may have been advantageous for Saruman to let Gandalf keep it, for if Saruman were to gain The One Ring, might he then be able to use it to dominate Gandalf through his ring.
@@dargron7614 Also, if Saruman knew what the effect of Narya was, then he would dismiss it. The power to inspire courage in others is unimportant, if he already has hypnotic powers of persuasion and if he would prefer people to be afraid of him.
@@o00nemesis00o It would still have magnified his powers of persuasion. If I had powers of persuasion and you told me that you had a ring that magnified your ability to convince others to be courageous I wouldn't be thinking "Oh lol don't need that, I'm good at that already" I would plot to take it from you and weaponize the combined power. Saruman literally wanted to have a ring of power. Narya would have been perfect for him.
My brother once described Saruman as not just his verbal guile, but his "presence", the sense of authority he gave off.
This reminds me of the scene from the movie, where the fellowship is on top of the mountain and he is casting spells at them from the top of Isengard.
Saruman of many colors
8:50 huh. so thats where they got Calabrimbor's story arc from in shadow of war.
I like the parallel between the one ring and sarumans greatest ability his voice. Both of them in essence are the same, they seek to dominate the will of other beings.
thanks man your work is priceless
I wish we had a story about one of those lesser rings - one of those essays into the craft. Like maybe it suppresses hay fever symptoms, or helps you recover from a workout.
Were you able to film anything at the shire on your trip. I’d love to see a video of your travels.
Hi, long time Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit lover here! I, grew up watching the movies and I still to this day enjoy watching the shows.
One thing in particular that is not really mentioned in the movies, is the destination of souls. Now I learned from watching your channel a bit on what happens to elves and men when they die, but can you cover this topic concerning hobbits, dwarves, orcs, etc?
if the ring worked it means that Saruman eventually could rebuild his body, somewhere in the fourth age! food for thought.
That was alway what my take was. Sauramon's writing is a bit..it had issues. IMO, he didn't simply figure out a way to make cool jewelry. I took that he had also gotten to where his cloak, and body itself also empowered, to have some amount of the powers of all colors, on top of gnarly powerful jewelry. It'd give him the experience, and umpf needed to make even more hilariously strong artifacts. He saw the issue of having only rings (or swords, pendents etc) get spells put on them so (at least tried to anyway) do the same to his clothing, and body to. Magifying all his atributes at once, ironically, that'd also magnify his bad ones to.
Nice work dude thanks
You have to wonder whether even a 'lesser ring' like Saruman's would have been subject to the power of the One, and make its wearer vulnerable to Sauron's domination. After all, Sauron could command his Nazgûl even without the One Ring, and the Three were subject to the One even though Sauron had no hand in their making - so might Saruman's possession of a self-made lesser ring have made him more susceptible to Sauron's corrupting overtures?
No. Celebrimbor made the Three with the Gift of Saurons knowledge thus they share a link to the One. Saurmon made his with the Gift of Knowledge from his master, the Valar of the Forge. His tier in this is parallel to Sauron.
@@davidlewis5312Both Sauron and Saruman learned this knowledge from
the same master, Aule. It’s likely the ring was a lesser ring and had a lesser influence over Saruman, which led him to using the Palantir which completed his corruption.
These other rings were all made with Sauron, and likely had some of himself poured into them. The three elven rings, which were done without him but from the knowledge he taught, were free of his control unless he wore the One Ring
Saruman's Ring was done without Sauron, so it would be free of him. The Perfected Saruman's Ring would have tried to control the One Ring... well, I don't think anyone could truly defeat Sauron in a battle of wills. Saruman is cunning, but Sauron is much more so. So the perfected ring might spell Saruman's doom.
@@davidlewis5312 Did Saurumans knowledge not come from studying the rings and their craft? If so, he would have forged his ring after the same instructions, as the elves of yore.
Though he must have been be aware of Sauron's plan in the second age and should know that any ring, forged after Sauron's teaching, would be controlled by the one ring
@@racernatorde5318 I think Saruman would have likely been aware of the risk and made enough modifications so his Ring of Power would not be subject to the One Ring.
I love these videos… this is pretty off-topic, but have you ever thought of doing a collaboration with Charlie Hopkinson? He could be on an episode where he does the voices.
I don’t know if you have purposely portrayed some of the voices here differently than the films in order to keep peoples attention on focus on the textual material, but if you don’t have anything against it… It would be a fun thing to see once!
I didn't know about Sauroman's and Gandalf's rings. I just assumed they had rings, but didn't see anything about them. (I haven't a lot of Tolkien) Saruman seemed too proud, even from the start (the start that I know of) Thanks for this explanation.
Thanks, Nerd. 😃👍
Makes me wander what would of changed if Cirdan gave Narya to Saruman. Would he of stayed good and not have been so jealous of Gandalf or would it of made if worse like empowering his voice or kindling the hearts of his Uruk hai?
It would have just given a dangerous man a dangerous artifact. IT was only a matter of time before Saruman would have fallen. The man's pride and ambition are simply too grand for his own good.
The story of how the Valar chose who would become the Istari shows that Saruman was already behaving in a petty and jealous fashion towards Gandalf and Radagast.
Isn't it amazing that the artwork of Tolkien's legendarium reflects the actors who played their respective parts in The Trilogy? We see Saruman who looks like Sir Christopher and Gandalf, as a wizard is now the prototypical presentation of wizards everywhere and, you guessed, looks like Sir Ian. Aragorn looks like Viggo, Arwen is unmistakably Liv Tyler, most of the time, Elrond is now without apologies, Hugo Weaving and Good on ya Mate. Frodo, despite being 50 years old in the books, is far younger and reflects Elijah Wood almost everywhere. We associate and can related to these marvelous actors who have given us a cinematic story that will never fade or grow old. The films aren't book/canon they're Jackson's best (and as yet unrivalled) interpretation, cutting out scenes and characters, the two the some to mind immediately are Bombadil and Glorfindel, all that transpired in The Old Forest and the Barrow Downs as echoes of first age lore. Their faces will live on for generations to come in artwork and as their characters in LOTR trilogy. As for myself, having read the Trilogy many times, I now think of these characters as the actors who played them.
Saruman's ring had the power to make his robes fabulous. 🌈
I loved seeing that image from the Spy in Isengard RolePlaying Book - i collected the whole English series - I wish I could get my hands on the Portugese only book that was released in the series ahead of the cancellation
Could you please do a video on why so many of the Maia ended up going corrupt?
Saruman pulls up in the drip and Gandalf just roasts him on the spot "i like white better"
And Gandalf lifts the bottom of his cloak slightly to reveal some crisp Air Force 1’s 😂
So what you're saying is that Saruman installed the world's first Ring doorbell at Isengard.
Aulë really drills the need for perfect order into his servants doesn't he
🤦♂😆
He is Earth, the most solid and stable of the elements. Some of his followers took it too far and went fash. Melkor, by contrast, was fire, the most chaotic element, and he wielded order only for the ultimate purpose of destruction. It's interesting that Sauron followed Melkor at first, but when he was left to go on his own, he reverted back to the dark-Aulëan way of totalitarian form and order. Order in excess becomes a type of chaos, since it leads to destruction.
Oh this creeped me out, I was gonna suggest this video last week but didn't - but here it is anyway 🤣❤
If Saruman made a ring more powerful than The One Ring I dread to think what would happen to Middle Earth.
I agree with your statement. Still, Curumo/Saruman was once a servant of Aule.
His Pippin voice is ACE! And that's me being as picky as possible about it.
That Pippin was on point 😆
Cirdan met the Istari in the Grey Havens? This must be after they arrived from Valinor via meteors. 😆
You're pretty good at narration! Keep going you could be really great someday!
Great info, thanks
Fun fact: Samwell was the only character across the entire saga who came into contact with the One Ring and wasn't tempted or corrupted by it - he couldn't get rid of it fast enough, and was entirely indifferent to it when circumstances forced him to carry it. This makes Samwell stronger in character than wizards, royalty or nobility, and more honourable than the Baggins family - the only other being capable of such a feat was Tom Bombadil.
It would have been nice to see Saruman's chromoflair robes in the movies.
this channel is dope
1:00 cunty gandalf really caught me offguard ngl
Christopher Lee is the only cast member from Lord of the Rings who actually met JRR Tolkien!!!
i would love to see a comedy skit about the valar bringing Aulë into 'the office' to talk about how many of this pupils turned evil!
Fun fact: the first official Brazilian Portuguese translation of The Lord of the Rings omitted completely the paragraph that mentions the Ring of Saruman, so here in Brazil we had no idea about it unless we read the book in English
This is off-topic and I’m a rookie so take it easy on me but how is the witch king able to break Gandalf’s staff when Gandalf had previously taken on multiple Nazgûl, and he had been reincarnated more powerful as Gandalf the white?
You're referring to the movie? Not canon; that scene wasn't in the book.
That point about what lore Saruman would pick up in Barad-dûr really kicked my imagination into gear...que a new, and never to be played, MERP "what if" campaign outline.
?
Loved it, _thank you!_
A fun detail from the movies; after Frodo destroys the one ring, all the other rings crafted lose their power and thus we get to see the ring Narya on Gandalfs hand for the first time when Frodo is about to board the ship to Valinor. This is because the rings (the one ring excluded) have the power to be invisible to everyone except another ring wielder.
He accidentally gave himself +5 to hubris.
Remember he can’t use Saurons formula or he’d simply be risking putting himself under the one rings control. So he had to in secret create a brand new way to make a ring while the elf’s openly learned and practiced for centuries under Saurons teaching to make theirs resulting in numerous lesser rings.
I loved Christopher Lee's depiction of sarumon but god it would have been so cool to see a sinister rainbow-y cloak on sarumon after his turn