How powerful is Shelob?
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- Опубліковано 23 вер 2024
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As a minor linguistic point, Shelob's name means "female spider". The "she" part is obvious; as for "lob", remember invisible Bilbo's taunting verses thrown at the Mirkwood spiders: "Lazy lob and crazy cob / are weaving webs to find me. / I am far more sweet than other meat, / but still you cannot find me."
Wow did you catch this? This is amazing attention to detail
So her name could be seen as female web or web girl, or she who makes webs
@@vardiganxpl1698 'Lazy lob... are weaving webs' - your translation means Bilbo said something to the effect of '...webs... are weaving webs'. This seems highly unlikely and linguisticly odd. OPs assertion of lob meaning spider seems far more likely.
So you're saying there's a Helob? What about a Themlob? 😅
Fun Fact, that no one cares about. In German she is named 'Kankra'. But I have no clue where that comes from, there's no German word in that name.
Okay I looked it up. It comes from an almost extinct word Kanker, which means Spider or a special kind of spiders, the Harvestman (according to a dictionary that's the translation)
There’s also something to be said that the starlight was from the silmaril, the thing that captured the light of the trees her mother destroyed and the very item that she would have devoured had the balrogs not driven her off. A silmaril undid both mother and daughter.
Rather the mother coveted that light, while the daughter feared it.
Shelob was not realy "undone".
"She is last mentioned, in The Lord of the Rings, when Sam put on the One Ring, and heard Shelob "bubbling" in her misery far away, as his sense of hearing was vastly improved by wearing the Ring."
I always found it ironic that the sword Sting was given its name by Bilbo after slaying the spiders of Mirkwood and years later that same sword wielded by Sam would mortally wound Shelob, who spawned those spiders in the first place. Talk about chickens coming home to roost.
*its
Tolkein was good at that
It did not mortally wound Shelob.
Wound? Yes.
Mortally? No.
You always found it sarcastic?
While I totally agree that we should not conflate Shelob (and Ungloiant) with spiders, just like we should not think of dragons as simply monstrous serpents, there is one linguistic point I want to highlight. Historically speaking, "sting" was also used for venomous bites, especially from snakes. Considering Tolkien's penchant for older style language (like using "fly" to mean "to move swiftly" instead of literally flying), I feel that's all that's meant by his using the word "sting" in connection to his Ungoliant, Shelob, et al.
I think that's a really interesting point.
In addition to the points you make I've heard people after venomous bites such as from snakes say "damn, that stings" and the word itself has more than one meaning in English. "To cause a sharp or stinging pain or discomfort" is one apt verb description for the word.
I always envision the hobbits as little bees or hornets with their Sting, stinging opponents until they flee
Should we also assume that Tolkien was that familiar with arachnid versus insect anatomy? I agree that he never intended Shelob to be _just_ a spider but I'm not sure that the inclusion of a sting is a deliberate indicator of that.
I think that's a great point!
The use/meaning of words absolutely shifts over time, and we should be mindful of that.
(like calling someone a "gay little fellow" today, lol)
I also think OriginalLuddite makes a great point.
We, nowadays, are used to 4k cameras with macro lenses showing us what animals do.
(gawd I loved Animal Planet as a kid, and Planet Earth as an adult, haha)
So we know, and either have seen or at least can see online, which animals bite and which ones inject/sting.
During and after WW1, I doubt people had access to such detailed information.
And certainly Tolkien was way more erudite than most people back then, but I'm not sure it extended to entomology/araneology.
I originally read the Trilogy through a library back in 1980 when I was ten. After I was devastated of Frodo's apparent death finishing The Two Towers, The Return of the King book was not available as it had been taken-out and not due back for two weeks that summer. I moped around, walking, and noticed a van that was airbrushed (as was the style at the time) that said, "Frodo Lives!" in orange and green trippy font. That gave me hope! What a coincidence, eh? Got the book two weeks later and poured through it and didn't sleep that night getting through the chapters, my first all-nighter (at age 10 no less!). I somehow was able to get a girlfriend later-on despite the extreme nerdiness.
T`was the style at the time to carry an onion tied to a string on your belt
Oh please, someone lesser would've thought you "too nerdy" to partner with.
Long live us nerds!
It took awhile, but I was granted the love of a beautiful woman whom one would never had thought would even glance at me!
Well considering how your pure with your Love of the books I'm sure she found something very interesting in you❤. Funny enough, I didn't even read The Hobbit till I was in the second grade and my teacher told me that there was a sequel to the books( Lord of the Rings). I ended up finishing them in the fifth grade! This of course was in the early nineties, but I do have to thank the animated Rankin Bass The Hobbit for getting me into them in the first place! And wouldn't you know, I have a girl who loves me and understands my love of gollum! So kudos to you and your special lady too! It can happen to anyone!🎉🎉🤘🎉🎉
I love this story.
Plenty of us nerds are women too. I am.
Keep your hopes up, boys. If you're a good person, you'll always attract other good people.
Shelob was able to pierce Frodo through the mithril armor. Something a troll with a spear could not do. That's quite a sting.
In the book he was stung in the neck.
Just started listening to this and then a little spider ran across my desk.
Sqweeeeee!
No. I love spiders. My wife has a true phobia. I'm saddened that couples-therapy is more expensive than would be my enjoyment in taking advantage of that.
How powerful was it?
One of Shelobe's descendants?
She’s listening in!
Please remember to flatter her, she is getting quite hungry.
Wait a sec... Sauron was feeding his orcs to Shelob?! I never caught that in the book or show, but honestly, it makes sense. The "guards" are like a buffet table for her, so Sauron is probably posting the most disposable orcs outside her lair.
Haven't watched the show, and it's been years since I read it, but yes, I believe it is while frodo is unconscious/semi-conscious I believe he hears a couple of orcs talking about how sauron regularly posts some random guards there, specifically as an offering/sacrifice to shelob.
@@kezia8027 Well I'll be darned. I missed that until this video.
In the book, it only says that Sauron doesn't mind losing orcs to her every now and then.
yep, its pretty clear tbh
The book says that Sauron often fed her prisoners who were of no use for him anymore. And he didn't mind if a few orcs were eaten as well. For him a few orcs were a good trade.
You say her iteration in Shadow of Mordor was non-canon, but perhaps you were unaware of a lost letter from JRR to his son, Christopher about this very topic:
"Christopher, my son, did I ever tell you the full story of Shelob? You know, the monstrous spider - descended from the vile Ungoliant! - which I used to read aloud of in our Oxford meetings of the Inklings? Well what I didn't mention back then was Shelob could also transform into a totally hot babe: all pale and dark and wan like Rebecca in Ivanhoe or what will later come to be known as the goth subculture. In fact she looked very much like the pornographic actress Stoya who will be born 13 years after I die. Christopher, I will be entrusting you with my estate. If there is ever a videogame adaptation of my work you must make sure they get this Shelob right - make sure she is what the Anglo-Saxons would have called a hæða ecge, 'a real sexy bitch'."
we DO NOT TALK about that Shelob
lmao
Best meme.
“And she was a good friend “
That one was always my favorite of Tolkien's Father Christmas letters...
It's important to remember that beings in Tolkien are often shape-shifters, but the shapes can also be representative of the being's true nature. Ungoliant seems to have assumed a shape that fit her "personality." But her offspring were "just" monsters.
Well…Ungoliant was never mentioned to have appeared as anything other than monstrous
@@informedconsumer5293this is true of balrogs too, though Gandalf's one did turn to snake like slime when it hit the bottom.
They're manifestations of evil, the form isn't necessarily fixed but not shiftable as sauron does, which seems tied to magical proficiency specifically.
The ring gives us insight into this, as all their true forms are essentially hidden and what we see are projections from a hidden realm that the wraiths get trapped in.
In truth they all probably are invisible in the real world without projecting themselves, so what you both say is accurate.
@@mandowarrior123 Sauron's goals involved deception, and the istari weren't, meaning they wouldn't be shifting forms to trick others. Truth vs lies
The thing I see people fail to mention about Shelob in the Shadow of War is that her power was greatly bolstered by her acquiring a Ring of Power (IIRC it was one of the rings from a defeated Ring Wraith), it wasn't until she got the ring was she able to do these added things like take a human form, and project visions and communicate telepathically..
Ohhhh is that what happened?
Probably best to ignore details from the shitty fanfic game though. There's so much butchery of Tolkien's story that it isn't even worth taking seriously.
She far surpassed by magnitudes the paltry sum of strength,
provided of such a measly trinket of such a silly wraith.
edit: added punctuation and formatting, literally all I did and it became prose : D
How about an episode of speculation on which route Gandalf would’ve picked to enter Mordor.
Interesting point. He didn't seem too thrilled hearing they went that way. I kinda wonder if he would've done it anyway though.
Recalling when it was a toss up between Moria or Caradhras, it was basically a "pick your poison" decision, and I imagine Gandalf knew most of the journey would be like that and so probably set out laregly on faith rather than a concrete plan.
My understanding is that the Black Gate and Cirith Ungol were the only entances, though I haven't read the books in awhile. Would make for a good video.
Seconded, it'd be interesting
I wonder if Tolkien ever wondered if Gandalf ever wondered about his faith in Era Illarvitar.
Its crazy to think Lucas the Spider is her distant descendant.
A great caricature of raw evil. Possibly more important than her pure power was that fact that she was still a slave to it- like her mother Ungoliant, always hungry and never satisfied.
On top of this, her death is yet another example of Tolkien's use of literary irony; no matter how powerful the evil, it will often be the power itself that is its own undoing. It's Shelob's great strength and weight that causes her to crash down into Sting, leading to a great wound and possibly her death.
Except she didn't die. She is inured and crawls away, but there is no indication in LoTR that she dies.
Still he makes an excellent point
@@Tified967 The entire story is the humble little person managing to defeat overpowering evil repeated at different scales over and over again. From Frodo and Sam defeating Sauron to Merry and Pippin convincing the ents to defeat Saruman, to Bilbo and Frodo resisting the ring, to Éowyn and Merry defeating the Witch King, to Gandalf defeating the Balrog, etc, etc.
If anything, the example of Shelob signifies the opposite; that sometimes evil is only temporarily defeated but remains and slinks away for someone else in the future to deal with as the issues faced by the protagonists are already overwhelming.
Also, I'm going to throw in that she's not evil. She's animalistic. She's a force of nature. Lions aren't evil for hunting gazelle, and Shelob isn't evil for hunting orcs, or hobbits.
@@earthknight60 and likewise there is no indication in LoTR that she lives
Iirc the books never say that normal weapons cannot hurt her. The closest line we get to that is the fact that nobody would have been strong enough to pierce her hide, and so it was her own weight and haste to kill Sam which led to her being stabbed by sting.
Similarly, we see that another blade can’t cut her webs and that sting can, but we get no definitive or even suggestive statements aside from individual circumstantial evidence.
Watching the video made me realize how much Shelob and Tom Bombadil are inverse images of each other.
I've thought that before too!
I would imagine Tom is more comparable to Ungoliant than Shelob, given that he is also of unknown origin and has existed seemingly since time began.
But Shelob is her mother's daughter, after all. I definitely see what you're getting at and I don't entirely disagree.
Tom B was outside the story, half observer and half god.
Tolkien, like MR James, was clearly creeped out by spiders. Just as Lovecraft was by cephalopods. It may be a too-many legs or arms thing.
Deep cut! I love James' stories :)
I really like the reminder that it took so many special circumstances to merely hurt Shelob.
It's easy to overlook that, in the film/story.
Great video!
Some of the artwork used in this video is incredibly creepy. Well done!
You have to arm yourself with the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, or the Holy Can of Extra Strength Raid.
First shalt thou take out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three. No more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy holy hand grenade of Antioch toward thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it. -- Armaments, Ch II, Vs.9-21
@@feynthefallenSuch a poetic passage.
@@feynthefallen don't forget to partake from the sloths!
Its interesting how Shelob just kinda.. existed, for millennia, in a cave, eating people, living her life. Like a dark mirror of Tom Bombadil
Where is John Goodman when you really need to kill a spider?
Nice.
Things could get ugly! 😂
Twerking in an underground bunker
I have a question, who or what the hell did she mate with?!
Spiders mate with their Snacks
This is the REAL question!
hodor
Perhaps the second-to-last offspring of Ungoliant? After the deed, she ate him.
Whenever I am a little confused by some sort of lore or legend, I read a bit of Greek or Norse mythology. After that I tend to no longer be a little confused.
In "Bored of the Rings" they straight up say that Sorhed (Sauron) was married to Schlob (Shelob) and that they are divorced. She is bitter and hates everything. Additionally, the Nostril (Nazgul) are their children.
Maybe the canon misfired?
What the hell??!’
God I love "Bored of the Rings". I read it as a kid and it made me laugh out loud. I hope Robert covers it one day.
“I gave you the best years of my life!”
Except that was a literal parody?
Should I write my own spoof stating Legolas is the wife of Gimli for you to claim as a source too?
Shelob was also meant to have horns, a neck, and claws. Her full description comes together to make a monster far more horrific than any spider would look. If you think about it carefully, she was actually an alien. Ungoliant's origin is worded as you'd expect an primitive person in that world would describe space, and Shelob being her daughter is thus a space alien. Probably a magical one like her mother, and some people have tried drawing her based purely on Tolkien's own writing... Results from that are really horrible to look at.
I think Jazza drew a more book accurate version of her.
@@FlinnGaidin He did. It was a lot more horrifying than the New Zealand spider look in the movie version.
@@UnswimmingFishYT Indeed.
I rather like his "Let's draw XYZ as described in the books" videos.
Okay, I know that Shadow of War is NOT cannon, is NOT in the spirit of Tolkein in a lot of ways, and should NOT be taken seriously.
But if it was, we all know what Shelob's greatest power would be: Seduction.
I just don't know if I can forgive the fact they took Shelob, this really awesome dark creature with so much history, and the only thing they could think to do with her is....SEXY WOMAAANNNN! Must give Shelob dah boob!
Shelob doesn't die instantly. She wasn't a creation of Saurons, nor of the ring, so potentially she could live on.
"Shelob was gone; and whether she lay long in her lair, nursing her malice and her misery and in slow years of darkness healed herself from within, rebuilding her clustered eyes, until with hunger like death she spun once more her dreaful snares in the glens of the Mountains of Shadow, this tale does not tell".
I have always found it ironic that Ungoliant literally hoovered up the light of the Two Trees, but Shelob was wounded by a remnant of that same light.
05:27 : Shelob was introduced in Rings of Power as a hunting spider that was very agile and had a lot of offspring. It was still very small, smaller then the Mirkwood spiders and to be honest in my eyes not really a treat to a squad of Soldiers.
The Frodo and Sam section of the Two Towers is by far my favourite part of the whole story.
So cool to see you feature art from somebody I know! Alex Rosko did the Sam vs Shelob painting at 7:20 she's awesome!
Can you do "How powerful was the Master of Lake Town?" Next please
A popular theory is that Tom Bombadil is the personification of the Music of Ainur. So following that theory could Ungoliant be the Discord of Melkor?
I never thought of Shelob as powerful as such, more of a large very dangerous predator. Basically an animal, nothing more.
So you missed the part where Gollum pleaded with her and made a bargain?
That is very much so in the Peter Jackson movies, but if you read the book it definitly describes Shelob as a powerfull and evil being with toughts. Tolkien describes some of her toughts in the second book.
Now do a video about the Stone of Erech
There's definitely something much more with Shelob. She is no mere giant spider. She is insidious, cunning, and a skill with deadly crafting. It is not that she doesn't understand speech or her victims pleas, is that it delights her as some evil Melody that brings her black heart joy. She may have underestimated Sam wise, but that doesn't take away from the numerous victims and horror she brought into her webs. Ones that even Sauron is proud to have at his employ; like a watchdog!
Take a sip every time he says shelob or ungoliant.
I would argue that, by account of Tolkien purposely trying to leave out or minimize Latin influences on his Anglo Saxon work, that he purposely avoided the Latin centric language of scientific classification, with the use of a bit of poetic license
Tolkien refers to her mandibles, or chelicerae, as a “beak”. This would check out as most true spiders have mandibles that move left and right, as opposed to up and down like tarantulas. This could be viewed as a strange sideways beak hiding teeth and the opening through which spiders ingest liquid.
Her “sting” in this case would be an archaic reference to her bite. Being that spiders have no true mouths, rather an esophageal opening which they use to regurgitate digestive liquid and the suck it up again, and their fangs, which connect directly to their venom glands, being “stung” would be likened to an ant or wasp using its stinger,itself a modified ovipositor, taking the form of a hardened extension with a channel for injecting poison, as opposed to its actual mouth. Framing them thus, her bite, avoiding romantic terminology, is described as a sting, as there is no mouth or true teeth used.
As for the carapace, that’s a bit trickier. All arthropods go through molting, where their internal bodies grow inside of the hardened segments on the outside. Most of the time an insect or arachnid will find a safe and secluded spot, and then slowly flex and pulse their internals as they release themselves from their carapace. Assuming they do this successfully, their soft and malleable bodies harden over a rapid period, giving them a new exoskeleton, but it would not be untrue to say that this growth comes from within, as the soft carapace is still capable of retaining fluids and keeping an animals internals in place.
This is conjecture of course, using spider anatomy paired with less common usages of phrases to better understand this most enigmatic of figures
glad you answered this in your first sentence - it's just a big ol' spider
I love Tolkein, but it was (and still is) hard to take Shelob as a serious threat. The Mirkwood Spiders in the Hobbit felt more threatening. For me, the problem with Shelob is that she over-promises and under-delivers. For me, she being somewhat easily driven off by Frodo & Sam really hurts her case for being a big threat.
Worth noting that regarding the fact that even warriors fear her (both the orcs and humans like Faramir) - there's a lot to be said for the fear of the unknown. In this world, to both the orcs of Cirith Ungol and (to some extent) to Faramir, the Nazgul are a known threat. Terrifically powerful, with a reputation for cruelty, and so on...there's certainly reason to treat them with reasonable caution...but an Orc will know what will trigger a Nazgul's wrath, and might well know exactly what that wrath would result in - in a tyrannical hierarchy such as what Mordor seems to be, there's no reason to keep horrifying punishments private and every reason to make them as public as possible. Faramir, too, has faced them in battle, or at least have records of what they did in past battles. He knows their capabilities. He knows they're dangerous, but he has at least an idea of how to counter them.
Shelob...is unknown, and unknowable. Orcs who encounter her die. Faramir only knows of a nameless fear (and possibly that Cirith Ungol means "cleft of the spider" and thus has a rough shape to assign to that fear.) That's so little to go on! If you're going to fight that, where do you start?
To me, that's a big part of what makes Shelob scary. After all, Gollum's attitude towards her is pretty similar to other creatures with power over him, rather than some overpowering supernatural fear.
I love your channel fantastic content and video thank you Robert!
In the movie shelob was showcased as essentially, a giant spider with tenacity.
They missed out on emulating a calculating expert of death dealing, a drawing in of light and presenting a wrongness and darkness ....
Yes ..this was shown in how quietly she stalked frodo above him before stinging ...but there was so much more to her ...
Great video!
Shelob was more careful and clever than her siblings. That's why she survived so long.
As much as all the magical artefacts helped it was the courage of a hobbit that defeated her.
Shelob being a creature of fear and a predator. Hobbits being fearful little creatures and Sam breaking this concept of predator and prey.
There’s a lot of layers to it and there’s a lot to unpack there.
So if Shelob was not actually killed by Sam, then she lived on into the fourth age and beyond (possibly).
Unlikely, aragorn sent his rangers to the area, they'd of hunted her , if she didn't consume herself like her mother.
4:01 Wait.... Wait.... Wait..... Mated?!?.... With what?!?!? 😳
Your voice is an exact mix of the Wax Whisperer and Back belt Barrister. I love it
She has power over my heart, for I so loved her mum
Shelob was the most terrifying part of the story for me. I have always been so scared of spiders and the thought of a giant spider really freaks me out!
So how did gollum of all struck up a friendship with her. That would be an interesting video…….😅
5:00 Question, couldn’t it be that Tolkien just didn’t understand the anatomy of spiders? Or was he intentionally trying to distinguish her from real life spiders to make it more mythical?
A fine deep dive. Thank you.
I always considered Shelob's siblings not necessarily "dead" but instead "gone" from Middle Earth. Even from the way her defeat was described in the The Return of the King it sounds more like they would be the kind of beings that would choose between using their strength to live up in Middle Earth as their Mother did, or return to the void with the Nameless Things were their mother (mostly likely) came from. I also wouldn't have been surprised if some of her other siblings would have made an appearance in A New Shadow as plot devices similar to how Tolkien had already used Shelob and Ungoliant in other works and notes.
I wondered if you'd mention the game. That game is probably the one reason why many went from wishing they could slay Shelob, to wishing they could slay Shelob with a silent S.
she lob on my sting till i gamgee
I remember in 'Bored of the Rings' she was called Schlob, and she was Saruman Ex (he was called Serutan in the parody) and after they divorced, he got custody of their nine children (The Nazgul) and she was forced to live in her lair.
Awesome content. Thank you.
And I think the book also says that hearing the name of Elbereth Gilthoniel also effed Shelob up some, yes? Which I always took to be another aspect of the hallowed water in the phial: Varda whom the Firstborn loved above all others. That said maybe it was another enemy that didn't like the name Elbereth - now that I'm thinking about it, I think it was a Nazgûl -and I'm just misremembering. Do a video on Elbereth! And, I'd be very curious as to why the Nazgûl *would* be repelled by Elbereth's name. I mean obviously the wraiths are super evil and she's super holy - but the wraiths seem so Middle Earth focused always - yet they MUST know of the Valar, surely. And it sounds like they might fear Elbereth specifically. Did they ever think she m might come for them?
I like the reference to the Shadow of War game version of Shelob as a woman, that wasn’t something I was expecting from this video as someone who watches the channel quite a bit, and has enjoyed both the books and the Peter Jackson films, and quite a few video games based on LOTR.
Just yesterday, I was thinking of Shelob and Ungoliant before her, as the dark counterparts of Tom Bombadil:Beings with agendas of their own for good or evil who have nothing to do with Sauron and don't care about the wider conflicts.
I don't know about Tolkien dropping clues that Shelob wasn't an actual spider but just looked like one, since based on the descriptions, he just didn't know what a spider looks like up close. I suppose he would have known they don't have stings.
I have this LotR 'death match' in my head now...
Smaug vs Ungoliant vs Balrog...
And the winner is?🤔
Ungoliant, by a huge margin
@@mattd6085replace ugoliant with shelob
Great video as always, thanks so much for your content. Quick question, have you thought of doing videos about Wheel of Time? Thanks again!
LotR has some of the best fantasy monsters ever.
great job with this video, very allegorical
I learn something from each of your videos. Shelob (and by extension Ungoliant) not a spider, but something else? It makes perfect sense when you explain it, but it never occurred to me.
Would you possibly start making videos on the world of the Witcher? I really like your lord of the rings videos and the way you explain everything in phenomenal, I would really like a deep dive series on the Witcher and the creatures and characters in that series, thank you!
I don't think Tolkien had Shelob with a stinger in the book, but even if he did, like the movie, that would be OK since she's not really a spider, just shaped like one after her maker.
This is what makes sams feat of beating her all the more amazing. Here we have a tiny 4 foot hobbit defeating a literal god from nothing but his sheer will and anger to save his friend
So now all we need to ask is HOW POWERFUL IS SAM??
He was good at carrying things
Well, she was some sort of spawn of Ungoliant, and Ungoliant was enormously powerful, enough to dominate and threaten the existence of Morgoth. He was in weakened state compared to his full powers, but he was still a full Vala and hadn't really been diminished, so he was incredibly powerful.
I have found certain things mentioned in Tolkien's text about Shelob puzzling. First, just how old is she? Is she really so old to have memories from the First Age? And secondly, why did the light from the phial of Galadriel bother Shelob so much? I ask because that light was supposed to be, in essence, the light of one of the Silmarils. But when reading about Ungoliant, one reads that she sucked the light from the Two Trees and was made stronger by it. The Silmaril captured a small portion of that light. The light in the phial would be something of a reflected light, wouldn't it? But mostly, if the supposedly hallowed light of the Two Trees only made Ungoliant stronger, why would some small measure of that light cause such distress to her distant offspring? I can only guess we're meant to understand that phial light was perhaps enhanced by the words spoken, and the Vala invoked? Kind of scrambling for answers here.
If I remember correctly the light only causes pain to Shelob when it enters through her damaged eye, whereas previously she only seems wary of it. I would guess that the process of collecting the light by Galadriel somehow hallowed the light making it anathema to evil as well as being a light when all other lights go out.
I'd like to think Shelob and Sauron have an understanding that she'd stay in his house like a man and his cat
I finished the Hobbit last week and am halfway throguh Book 1 of the Lord of the Rings. What was rather peculiar was all the songs. Would you perhaps make a video on the songs?
Excellent video as usual, but I feel like you missed something.
You mentioned Shelob had a huge sense of fear about her. Personally I take that as some kind of magical effect, but whatever its origin, it's definitely there. And it is arguably the strongest weapon she has. She's a predator, she doesn't want a fair fight.
And Sam's greatest weapon in this fight was his courage, he is Samwise the Brave after all. Pushed to the brink of despair and fear to be sure, but Tolkien is very clear about the incredible courage of halflings, and this is the bravest halfling of them all. He has enough of the only thing that stands up against Shelob. Faramir was by far a greater warrior than Sam, but in that situation, even armed with Sting and the light Earendil he would have failed and fled and died.
To nick a line from elsewhere that I feel is suitable "no other blade could have struck such a blow, though mightier hand had wielded it". Merry and Sam both stood against foes that should have outmatched them. That would have outmatched (almost) all of the mightiest warriors of the land. And yet they were victorious. That's what hobbits do.
I absolutely hate spiders, severe arachnophobia. But I put that aside, for the love of Tolkein lore.
4:01- ‘mated’? With what? Or who? And come to think of it, who did Ungoliant mate with to conceive Shelob?
Shadow of War Shelob maybe 😏
When it comes to all the seemingly "lucky" circumstances that go in the Fellowships favor, I always think back to what Gandalf said about "a fools hope" when speaking on Pippin looking into the palantir. The whole ordeal to destroy the ring truly was all laid upon a fools hope, against all the most unconquerable odds, the blind luck in the most foolish of tasks all paid off in the favor of good and let it cast evil into the void where it belonged with its master.
You should consider adding the wheel of time series to your videos.
Rob could you do a video on what you’d think would happen if someone had more rings on then one ?
Its fun in Lord of the Rings online, you can tangle with her and those who are with her.
The first time I heard Shelob, I was wondering what character everybody was talking about. That because in Germany the genius translators called her Kankra for whatever reason, so I was confused until I found out that's her real name.
Once Shelob was like "Do you know who my mom is?" to Sauron. And Sauron was like just eat whatever comes up those stairs I'll leave you alone.
Great content while napping, can you please make videos longer
I always felt like Shelob was one of, if the not the, weakest of Ungoliant’s children and that’s why she survived. The others were so mighty they stayed put and either consumed each other or were hunted down and destroyed by men elves and dwarves whereas shelob, whilst mighty, was not as much of a problem and so was ignored
I’d almost argue that she is the most powerful. Not because of strength or magical abilities, but because no one good or bad wanted to mess with her. Her legend was enough to cripple the minds of anyone who would dare oppose her.
In contrast, Sauron, Sauroman, Dragons, and all sorts of other evils who were stronger than her ended up being faced head on by the world of men.
I just rewatched your video on if Sauron ever repented? I wonder if Sauron actually felt like his plans were beneficial for the inhabitants of middle earth? Did he see everyone as being almost childlike that needed strict order? Could anyone be that delusional to believe that making others miserable while enriching themselves would be good for anyone but himself?
best nerdy yt content thank you so much
If Shelob was not mortally wounded by Sting, do we think she’s still chilling in her cave during the fourth age or did she move on elsewhere?
I do like the shadow of war games. While not canon they have fun and create an interesting story
Would perhaps have been worth mentioning Gollum in this video. He did after all sneak past her at least twice (?). He lacked both sword and phial.
*The worst sin of the films was to end Two Towers with the non-canonical trip to Osgiliath rather than the cliff hanger of facing Shelob*
Yes, that and changing the interaction between the hobbits and Faramir to almost the complete opposite of what happened in the book. Peter Jackson tried to justify it in terms of the plot dynamic by claiming that "Faramir had to become an obstacle", but that whole segment, ending with Frodo almost offering the Ring to the Nazgul king, is a travesty of Tolkien's work.
@@ceejay0137wat happened in the book ?
What happened to faramirs character was upsetting, to say the least. @ceejay0137
Eh, will-they-wont-they die cliffhangers are a cheap trick. Just because Tolkien did it one way doesn't mean it was optimal. And, anyway, dividing the story into 3 books was his editors choice, not his. The removing of the scouring of the shire (a *far* more controversial edit) meant that the cut had to be earlier in the story in order for Sam and Frodo to have reasonable screen time in RotK. The place where did cut makes perfect sense - it's satisfying from both a narrative and emotional point of view.
@@AlanOLeary209 Faramir want tempted by the ring but instead he equipped Sam and Frodo with rations and wooden staves and helped them for the next segment of their journey.
I thought Shelob and her siblings ate their mother, as Spiderlings tent to do?
though what I get from this is that the reason Shelob didn't pursue Sam further after getting stabbed, was because it was just worth the struggle for the Morsel.
I'd love to see a video on the Balrogs. I've always wondered what they were after I watched the Fellowship.
“Watched”…
The Balrogs are fallen Maiar, corrupted by Melkor even before the creation of the world, and becoming the balrogs upon its creation. Sauron is also a fallen maiar who was corrupted by Melkor, but unlike the other maiar he did not become a balrog. It's not explained why, though Sauron was the most powerful of the corrupted maiar, and likely was more useful to Melkor in a different form than the balrogs.
Don't forget that token states that she and Sauron came to an agreement. Evidently, Saran could not order her the way he could do orcs or any other evil creature. They came to an agreement.
Now I am very confused - first of all thank you for the video, I really enjoy your calm voice and deep nerdy details - she is the only character I can think off who's name is different in the German translation. She is called 'Kankra'...
how did this happen and why?
“Kanker” is an old fashioned word for the Weberknecht spider. Changing it to “Kankra” feminizes the name. The translator (Margaret Carroux) knew that Shelob means “female spider” in English, with the word “lob” being old fashioned, and she wanted to create a name in German that similarly retained the meaning “female spider”.
@@wsxyz thank you for the explanation! Very thoughtful indeed :)
I thought the shape-shifting Shelob in Shadow of War was a pretty neat idea tbh, it added even more depth to her. Sure, it's completely non-canonical but it made her even more interesting and allowed allowed her to interact and manipulate people she encountered rather than just eat them.
What would've happend if Sauron never made the ring?
7:30 in my mind, Shelob was simply a reincarnated Ungoliant, a fallen maiar like a barlog but weakened much by now and slowly growing in strength but still too weak to win against the light and the sting.
if I am right, Frodo and Sam literally faced a maiar.
@@MonographicSingleheadedM-sp2wk Ungoliant however, was not a valar or a maiar, so nor would Shelob be one. She's one of the most mysterious creatures in Tolkien's writing, described in The Silmarillion as having come from a void outside of the world.
@@TheStitchOutlands yes but that also doesnt mean she CANT be a fallen maiar. right ? we just do not know :) we do not know every maiar that existed. maybe what we know is just the outcome. we do not know if the narrator KNOWS who she is. but doesnt mean she cant have been a maiar at some point in her life, only to choose a different one.
@@MonographicSingleheadedM-sp2wk You aren't understanding. The Maiar were created to help the Valar. Ungoliant came from the void, NOT created. It is never explained where she came from, but that makes it certain that she wasn't a Maiar or Valar.
Given her incredible power, she would be far beyond the Maiar anyway. Even Morgoth was afraid of her at the peak of her power.