✅ SUBSCRIBE: enjoythejourney.life/UA-cam Watch us on the first 24/7 RV TV Network! enjoythejourney.life/RVTV ➡ Subscribe by Email: enjoythejourney.life/newsletter ✅ Click ⬇⬇⬇"READ MORE"⬇⬇⬇ for links to our favorite RV resources, gadgets, gear, & FREE stuff! Tom's Beginner's Guide To RVing Course on RV Masterclass! (free with subscription) Best RV Routes, campsites & more! enjoythejourney.life/rvtripwizard (25% off with code: ENJOY25) TIMESTAMPS/CHAPTERS: 00:00 Intro 00:47 What Is RV Frame Flex? 01:07 What RV Manufacturers Are Having Frame Flex? 01:44 Is RV Frame Flex Normal? 02:21 How Did We Discover RV Frame Damage? 02:31 Proof Of Our RV Frame Flex Damage 03:09 Best RV Customer Repair Service 04:08 How Lippert Fixed Our RV Frame Flex 05:02 Where Did Our RV Frame Break? 05:24 How To Feel For RV Frame Flex? 05:37 Lippert Fixes RV Frame Damage 06:13 RV Frame Broken At Wall Strap 06:52 Do Bad Roads Cause RV Frame Damage? 07:18 Upgraded Pin Box Can Help Reduce RV Frame Damage 08:18 How Do RV Manufacturers Check For Frame Flex? 08:46 Lippert Welding Our RV Frame 09:18 Columbus RV Factory Finished Frame Repairs 09:40 Save 25% OFF RV Life & RV Trip Wizard for RV Trip Planning 11:01 Does Our Grand Design Momentum RV Have Frame Damage? 11:18 Grand Design RV Owners Complaining About Frame Flex 11:36 Is Lippert Responsible For RV Frame Flex? 12:22 Did Our RV Washer & Dryer Damage Our Frame? 13:00 RV Warranties DO NOT Extend To 2nd & 3rd Owners! 14:22 Signs of RV Frame Flex or Damage 14:30 RV Bedroom Slide Stopped Working 14:48 Do Loose Screws Indicate RV Frame Flex? 15:07 RV Pinch Molding Coming Loose 15:51 RV Toy Hauler Shows Signs Of Frame Flex At Garage 17:06 Does Bent RV Molding Indicate Frame Flex? 17:47 How To Test For RV Frame Flex 17:56 Lippert RV Upper Deck Flex Measurement Save 7% off these awesome MORryde upgrades enjoythejourney.life/MORryde with code: enjoythejourney FREE OFFICIAL TRAUMA/PTSD TEST! enjoythejourney.life/cheri 🌞 Cheri can help one on one with you over Zoom (94% success treating depression, PTSD, anxiety, shame & more in one 2 hour session) More info: ua-cam.com/video/I8i3oO_90-0/v-deo.html 📶 HOW DO WE GET INTERNET? Save 20% OFF your first month with Homefi Internet with code: EnjoyLiferv enjoythejourney.life/router More about Homefi Internet enjoythejourney.life/homefi 🔋 Save 5% OFF Enduro Power lithium batteries enjoythejourney.life/enduro or mention 'Enjoy the Journey' if you call 303-968-1366 SOLAR! ETRAILER & GO POWER! enjoythejourney.life/solar & enjoythejourney.life/inverter 📰 BEST RV WARRANTY enjoythejourney.life/warranty 💦 Blu Tech R3 (the same water filter Tom & Cheri have, save 7% off with code ENJOY10) enjoythejourney.life/water or on Amazon: amzn.to/3xqRiAu 👍 Quick Start Guide: How to Make Money & RV & FREE RV Campsite Setup & Breakdown Checklist(s) enjoythejourney.life/newsletter SAVE BIG ON RV DIESEL! enjoythejourney.life/RVfuel (mention Thomas Kenemore) Our Dream hitch & fifth wheel pin box combo enjoythejourney.life/hitch & enjoythejourney.life/geny Get all your truck, towing, RV needs & more enjoythejourney.life/Etrailer **** SOCIAL: Follow us & share **** Join the 'Journey Tribe': enjoythejourney.life/join Subscribe to our UA-cam channel: enjoythejourney.life/UA-cam Subscribe to our Podcast: anchor.fm/enjoy-the-journey-life Subscribe to our newsletter for updates: enjoythejourney.life/newsletter Join our Facebook Group: enjoythejourney.life/group Facebook Page: facebook.com/EnjoyTheJourney.Life Instagram: instagram.com/enjoythejourney.life TikTok www.tiktok.com/@enjoythejourney.life Website: enjoythejourney.life/ **** RV PARKING & CAMPSITE FINDERS! **** Best RV Routes, campsites & Tom's Beginner's Guide To RVing Course (free with subscription) enjoythejourney.life/rvtripwizard (25% off with code: ENJOY25) CampersCard - Save up to 50% off on campgrounds - 15% OFF enjoythejourney.life/card Get $100 off a Thousand Trails camping pass! Contact Aaron Aaron_Massa@equitylifestyle.com or 360-489-4407 or contact Kimberly for a "used" membership enjoythejourney.life/TT or 800-272-0401 (mention Tom Kenemore if you call in) RV FREE at wineries, breweries, golf courses & more (save 15% off with code: HHFRIENDS15) enjoythejourney.life/HH FREE RV parking (save 15% off with code: BWFRIENDS15) enjoythejourney.life/boondockers100K Free Camping, Trip Planner & More! (30 Day Free Trial) enjoythejourney.life/dyrt **** CONTACT US **** Email: tomandcheri@enjoythejourney.life Mail Bag: Lake Effect Media 14870 Granada Avenue 1037 Apple Valley, MN 55124 Enjoy The Journey . Life, All Rights Reserved Some of our links are affiliate links. Thank you! #rvliving #rvlife #RV
Thank you.... if people would start calling it what it is "frame failure "instead of calling it what the industry wants it called "frame flex", maybe agencies that could do something would get involved. THESE FRAMES HAVE FAILED. Stop soft stepping the manufactoring.
My 55 year old camper is as good as new and I have a 1950 frame that only needed a new axle because the rubber torx potion was dry rotted. Once upon a time we built great things in America. And I take off in mine for a week a month year round.
Once upon a time people wouldn't part with their money to buy junk. RV owners have been willingly buying junk for decades now. I have a unit from the 70's that lasted me 30 yrs before I gave it away to a family who still uses it on their land. lol
It's time we form a class-action lawsuit for every Lippert frame owner! Really am sick and tired of faulty craftsmanship and poor quality of our rigs. They are seriously putting our families, traveling public, and property damage at risk. Our 2013 Montana 3150RL had similar issue. We had a mobile welder assist strengthening our hitch welds. Now to find out it was flex caused by Lippert?
@misterrobert6799 THANKS for your 0.26 cents! I'm not desperate! As I said, I fixed it and moved on. Have recieved several notices to join class actions for credit cards & Verizon. Anyhow, we've had our's fixed a few yrs ago at a campground. Not confident it IS properly fixed! My hope is no one is KILLED the next time we travel. At this point I do not trust moving it. Maybe I'll pay someone "insured" to professionally haul it. Nope, doesn't remove my liability sharing it here on social scumedia. We did travel from UT to OR back to FL after a "fix" weld. Last hitch up I noticed over 1/2 inch flex.
I'm currently wrapped around this issue in our 2022 Grand Design 380FL. I started noticing things with the front cap area. This is a front living room model. In all of the front compartment cabinets walls are separating, the floor inside the passenger side interior cabinets is falling away, the divider walls are separating in the front cabinets, on the outside passenger side where the factory cuts in expansion joints where the nose cap meets up with the main body of the camper the nose cap area is sticking out almost 3/8" of an inch indicating the wall is shifted, the vinyl flooring in that same corner is buckling, there is clear evidence of movement on the problem areas and can see it on the vinyl decals where they meet up to the body molding, the pinbox has an inch of play when you hook and unhook, the floor in the bedroom has a 1'4" drop/sag in a 4'ft span over the floor joists. So, after 10 days of back and forth with Grand Design I will say they've been very proactive, but then again so have I. I'm lucky because the Grand Design rally is about to begin in Quartzsite, Arizona, so they are dispatching one of their mobile technicians to assess and to get it ready to be able to transport back to the factory where they said they'll take it in for full repairs. We are the original owners. Kindra, at Grand Design who's one of their warranty customer service specialists, has been very helpful and understanding. It's a process for sure and it'll most likely take many months before we're fully resolved, so if you're going through this, be patient and be proactive, but be kind and Grand Design will help. This is our 3rd Grand Design product in the last 7 years. We had 2 Momentums and now our 380FL which we love, it was our dream camper. The tech is supposed to be here on March 4th or 5th I believe. I will certainly be documenting and taking photos of what we find.
So, be patient for a complete failure of the RV and disruption our time because Grand Design failed to properly design and order a structural sufficient frame from Lipert? No offense, for a vehicle of that cost, I am going to neither be patient or understanding and Grand Design would be buying back the unit. I am sorry you are going through this but this entire situation is not really excusable.
Correct what problem, it was designed to FAIL. LCI built it but they and the RV manufacturer absolutely knew it was going to have issues due to weight and stress. Crap from the onset.
Folks, let’s gather around the campfire and talk about the real problem. RV’s in general are junk. They are poorly designed, poorly constructed, poorly regulated, and overpriced. I would even say they are dangerous.
The problem is only getting worse. The RV manufacturer blames Lippert, and Lippert blames the RV manufacturer. The fact is these frames were never designed for anything more than short trips to campgrounds. And they have compounded the problem by making RV's heavier and heavier. And most of these repairs end up going through insurance because the manufacturer claims that rough roads are to blame.
Thanx 4 another gooood video on this issue that is seems to be common place throughout the industry!!! IMO, these longer coaches that log a lot of miles driving seem to have the most of the excessive frame flex issues, which leads to frame failure. As they log these miles traveling on the horrible interstates throughout the country, this violent articulating motion between the truck and coach perpetuates and manifests this issue. Our coach is a long toyhauler, but is equipped with the Moryde Independent Suspension (IS) and our washer/dryer is in the garage with our half bath…eliminates additional pin weight. We have logged around 16K miles across the country in 17 months of full timing…no frame flex in our coach - knocking on wood. Our coach having the Moryde IS and W/D in garage is a gamechanger and mitigates a significant amount of the violent articulation that occurs on rough roads. These longer coaches have a longer distance between the kingpin and the axles (the fulcrum point) so there is more of a “moment” or the vertical forces causing the frame flex. A good example would be going over a long bridge and encountering the expansion joints. Everyone has experienced this, but when towing this can be quite uncomfortable, because the truck is going up and the coach is coming down. The magnitude of these forces or torque generated is significant and IMO the leading cause of the excessive frame flex, which causes frame failure. What needs to be done is reengineer where the frame flex is occurring by adding more structural support (gussets) with more robust steel and welds. This will cost the manufacturers a few more bucks, but needs to be done for safety. Just my 2 cents. 👍😃🍻
You should also check the spring-hangers, axles, frame, another fail point... china steel and light gauge metal is used... Most RVs use Lippert frames... cheap...
After watching all these "frame flex" videos, I will never buy a Grand Design based on their customer service. Not to mention their lack of quality in product. I understand they cannot warranty a RV forever, but there are some issues they should stand behind. If a frame ever breaks and someone gets hurt, lawyers will go after the owner to Lippert and everyone between, including Grand Design.
Not a UA-camr but we had it happen to us. It's not "just" the frame. The Momentums have several lag bolts on the side which can loosen (and in our case with one bolt) fall out completely. We didn't have any cracks in the frame but the aluminum structure forming the front of the cap had cracks on each side. Our dealer did the repairs under GD supervision and they welded the aluminum, replaced the bolt, and added about 75 lbs of gussets. They had to remove one cabinet to inspect the bolts on one side. All the other bolts were OK. I now watch the cap movement just about each time I load/disconnect the pin. One year, so far so good. ps I found the bolt on the RV site pad while setting up a full year or two before I realized what was going on.
Guys, take a look of a video I made of our 2020 forest river 178bhsk. This to has a lippert frame. I have very extensive experience towing a multitude of trailers from the smaller to the biggest 5th wheels. The moment we got on the highway to bring our new camper home I knew something wasn’t right. It’s a rather small camper at just over 4000lbs and we have a full size truck to tow it. The sway was terrible. I hear a lot about single axles but we had a single axle jayco and towed it across country with no issues at all. After trying out a hood WD hitch with sway control it made little difference so I decided it has to be in the axle and frame so I put a go pro under my camper and if you watch the video you will see how much flex and sway the axle has under the camper. Way way to much in my opinion. And you can see the brake wire is tight against the frame as well. The day I made this video I didn’t show anyone and I shared it with forest river and lippert and it got 250 veiws that first day so they definitely passed it around. They reached out and wanted me to bring my camper in for them to look at but I declined and said I will fix the issue myself cause I didn’t want to be without a camper for month and months. I just warned them and you can see that these things are dangerous and should be recalled and fixed and the engineer should be fired. To fix my issue I welded on a 8” c channel beam as a cross member tying in the frame and the suspension spaced tube as close as I could to the rear shackle and that 100% fixed the sway issues I was experiencing. It’s getting to the point that these rv companies are putting out very unsafe products to keep the weight down. It’s a shame. Please check out my video here and watch it on a computer or tv. My heart sunk when I saw it. ua-cam.com/video/0Zetkx6HYbM/v-deo.htmlsi=zeHgv_fl2fX47JEM
Forest River 40' toy hauler here. I had issues with my fiberglass cracking on the sidewall at the front. I thought it was a busted frame but Lippert did inspect it and said it was a design problem . The lag bolts and screws that go into the sidewall from underneath the fifth wheel overhang were being busted apart and being pulled apart. The repair shop I went to installed new bolts and screws. First trip back to storage I could see it moving again so it's not a solid fix. I am not sure what the final fix is but will use it and inspect it every trip.
My wife and I were looking at the Solitude by Grand Design. During research and due diligence we found numerous stories about poor quality of construction. Apparently everything constructed after 2019 by Grand Design is showing serious quality issues. We took the Solitude off of our buying list.
I'm so glad I changed my mind and did not buy a 5th wheel. There are too many issues after only a couple of years of use. I am happy to see that Lipert (sorry if spelled wrong) step up to help figure things out. I think RV manufacturers need better engineers in their design crews.
@sherryarcher4832 go look @ your average Big Rig 5 th. wheel coupling on the trailer , No Swan neck flat chassis frame made of a suitable thickness to carry 100 ton , now if you bought a camper van on a flat chassis 2 axles 1 @ each end 1 with a swivel draw bar steering,, Eliminating 5 th. wheel coupling.. ALL your chassis problems would or should be behind you.
These builders have spent many years building as light as possible, so they can come up with a lightweight. They will then match them up with the bare minimum in terms of trucks to pull them. Set new drivers free during the busiest months for traveling among a bunch of similar families on vacation. Two types of vehicles I have always stayed clear of. -Students driving landscaping trucks from home to home with all their gear. -Any sort of RV during June , July and August. Now we learn about how many of these rigs are cracking up. Wow Just from watching videos from this issue, I can come up with 3 owners who were knowingly driving trailers back to IN. with weak frames.
You would think with that problem of flex frame, they would reinforce that area for safety reason I am sure they been testing their Rv for that problem what to do to improve or fix the problem.
The tech's comments are exactly what I was thinking. Tow vehicles are getting stronger and the average towing speed is higher, solar systems are getting more common increasing weight, and the roads have gotten worse in most states, making road impacts much more severe. I am sure Lippert has watched these claims grow every year.
For sure the average towing speed is getting higher. I drive parts of the I-15 from S. Calif to Las Vegas often. Not uncommon to see big trailers being pulled 75+. Also noticed many guys trying to show off or create penis envy by pulling a huge trailer up the 4,000 ft Cajon Pass with their big pickup at over 75+ MPH. Also not uncommon to see one at the side of the road with engine on fire at the top of the pass.
What is not mentioned in any frame failure videos is the increased truck horsepower and torque. Over the years, it has increased even over 100% in just 20 years. I seen many drivers towing 5th taking off from a stop and speeding up like nothing is behind them. Or driving down the highway doing 70-80 plus. That’s not good on the frame. Not saying it’s all the trucks/drivers fault, but needs to be considered. It would be interesting same size frame compared with older models to see actual difference in design, material quality and welding quality. For example, Take a 20 year old truck and haul a new 5th wheel 10k plus miles. You’re most likely burn up the truck if you try to drive it like a newer truck vs any damage to the trailer. Then take a new truck and older 5th wheel, and drive it like a new trailer. Drivers attitude changes on driving habits with newer and older vehicles. This is my observation seeing many RVers towing.
Your point is taken and I know people who significantly overload and never scale their rigs. Its kind of a giveaway when frames fail along with rims breaks and diffs. However truck power has increased along with increased trailer weights and GVW's. GVW's in my opinion are too low for trailers when it is easy to exceed with standard accessories most of which are at the front of the trailer such as generators, batteries, solar batteries and washer driers. Of course if they were built with decent trailers with ample GVW we would all be forced to get heavier trucks. This issue is also showing up on trucks with worn out differentials, failed transmissions etc. It used to be the one ton dually for a large 5th wheel but now they are being pulled on 3/4 ton trucks. Certainly believe frame quality is an issue though, one glance underneath and the lack of quality is obvious.
From the engineering perspective, most of these types of systems are built rigid so what you see on the outside “ comes together nicely. “ as well as how the inside looks and functions. In order for them to be built with the needed stress and flex points it would have to be a flatbed fifth wheel. Once you start to make a nice interior the design of building would need to change. No molding hiding the corner seam that will need to flex, instead a seam mounted to one side that covers the other side would be a great start. THE SHELL is solid and has no flex gaping.
Thank you for the information. I will definitely consider this on my next rv purchases. Probably no gooseneck, fifth wheel or Probably not even any slides for me.
We are second owners as well and GD gave us the heisman, Lippert said to go to GD our insurance company told us they don’t repair manufacturing issues and we don’t have extended warranty. We have an appointment with a shop in GA to fix this at the end of the month, out of pocket of course.
I agree with other comments, it's not frame flex, its frame failure. In general the frame is engineered by design for a certain amount of flex, cracks, bends are not apart of the design. I can say on the motorhome side of the warranties end, for the REV RV Group, ie Fleetwood, Holiday Rambler, and American Coach, the warranty is transferable if you are the second or even third owner as long as the coach is still under the new coach warranty and you have transferred your info on REV Group coach owner website.
I wish they built it like my Dump truck. Dump truck carry loss of weight so the Dump truck frame is a double frame. Especially since when you’re driving a dump truck it’s always off road.
Don’t worry about the gap under the belt line trim, the J panel slides up into it and is then screwed into the “I” beam of the lower frame. I totally agree with your comments regarding the RV manufacturers buying cheap, rather than poor engineering by Lippert.
No it’s Lippert being the mother ship of 3/4’s of the RV industry and I’ve gone circles with their warranty team in the axle division and let’s say it’s all Chinese made assembled here in the US. I’ve seen more issues with Lippert axles in the last 6 years than I care to count. All I know is I can pad slap or backing plate slap a dexter setup and go 20-30k hard miles on dexter drums before surface turning/replacing them on an equipment hauler. Lippert…. HA maybe 10k hard miles. Their 7k magnet is smaller than a dexter magnet and lipperts tend to melt the glue that bonds it together and wears a very nice groove in the drum face, not to mention I’ve had more issues with their magnets catching the drum wheel stud holes thus causing the brakes to self apply in motion…. Or the favorite - wheel studs stripping out internally…
The typical “Chinese made” talking point… the steel for the RV industry comes from the U.S and it is junk, like most Made in the US stuff is. Sure, if you buy cheap in China the quality won’t be great but if you pay what you pay for US steel in China you get top quality, China hast he newest and best Steel mills in the World! Engineered and Made in the US is pretty much the worst you can buy these days. Overpriced, expensive junk that’s what it means! What do you expect from a Manufacturing industry that has been taken over by politics, managers and woke corporation managements?
@mikef5507 Truth.. so glad I'm now rolling on a northwoods built chassis and dexter axles.. I'll never buy anything but northwoods from here out.. top notch quality 👌
@@freedomisnotnegotiableI agree.. and I don’t blame lippert as much as I do the companies telling them to build cheap… lippert will build as good as the purchaser will pay for
Just yesterday I installed a TrailerSaver BD5 Air Ride Suspension Hitch. It has 3 airbags and 2 shock absorbers to cushion the connection between truck and 5th wheel trailer .After watching, I feel my concerns were justified.
6:51 really you think? Obviously, because when it came from the plant/factory, it wasn’t right because it broke. So I sure hope it will be better than it was new. then he’s going to blame the roads? I drive my car and my motorcycle on some pretty crappy roads. I’ve never had my frame crack.
I bought a new 2023 keystone springdale 24 feet drove first time Oct from indiana to Washington the 2nd panel from the top opened up 4 feet across drivers side told from q rv center not enough staples holding that side plus the front pushes in while driving
I had a 2013 coachman pull behind camper and the frame behind the rear axle bent downward. We only had it 3 years and took good care of it. Thank goodness our insurance company totaled it and paid us off. I believe it is more of a design failure.
This is just a thought, most 5th wheels I have seen with frame problems are three axels. Three axel trailers have always had problems due to the stress during turning.
They are having the problem with any unit over 30ft. The manufacturer under spec the frames that are over weight before they even leave the plant. They were cutting corners to save money, now it's biting them in the ass.
This is precisely what I think the problem is! And I don't think the manufacturers are testing for it. Everyone is convinced it's from carrying the weight. Trailers have gotten heavier, tires have improved, the frames are being designed heavier to carry the weight, but with the tug of war that occurs, especially when doing tight maneuvers, the upper deck takes every bit of that stress. Look up what happens when there are two equal but opposing forces. Every picture showing how that happens is done with a circle. The fifth wheel connection is that circle. A tire's job is to maintain traction. You certainly don't want your trailer trying to pass you going down the road. I think the reason the frames don't fail instantly is due to the fact the frames are engineered so well. A very slight stress crack develops and then takes time to spread and become a real problem. Carrying the weight isn't the problem. The frames are designed in a way they can carry that weight far better than they could in the past. Improvements in technology have simply created a relatively new problem. I actually contacted Brinkley asking if they're testing and designing specifically for this. The answer I got back reinforced my belief that this is the problem. They gave me all the ways they're over-engineering the frames to CARRY the weight. What about turning?
I’m concerned that you have all of these people coming to diagnose the problem but the comments are already at the conclusion of “frame flex” and pointing fingers. I wish people would just sit back and wait before passing judgement. Not just these problems but in life in general. Thank you for making us aware and let us know the prognosis.
Only because there are several people working behind the scenes to bring this very serious issue to court. Trust me………. Karma is coming to the Rv manufacturers. We are finding thousands of people screwed. Several were forced to sign NDAs but we don’t need details, just the fact that we can add names to the lists.
The problem with most RV frames they are not engineer designed frames. They’re only built to certain specs, which are not a very high standard unfortunately, even airstream have frame flex problems. Also remember, Welding takes away strength from the original metal and makes that welding point a very brutal breaking point one welding aluminum you lose 50% of the strength that’s why any good aluminum trailer all the frame rails are actually riveted with special rivets a lot of people just don’t understand mechanical engineering
Does anyone see the correlation between the Columbus and the Momentum?? Virtually all RV manufacturers BUY their frames from Lippert in the specs that they "design" for their product. Bottom line is that ALL companies GO CHEAP and spec out the Bare Minimum. In my opinion, if you purchase a travel trailer OR 5th wheel that is LONGER than 32 feet, you WILL have a problem related to the frame. Horse trailers don't seem to have this problem because they build it super beefy and YES they cost more money.
sorry that happened to you .I had that happen to a 36’ 5th wheel front frame broke buy hitch and frame broke just behind axles it’s not frame flex it to light gage steel and not enough gussets and poor welding it was so bad it could not be towed . i sued sued tv manufacturer and frame manufacturer and dealership got all money back and attorneys fees back plus’s damages
People listen up, if you have a Lippert built 5th Wheel frame get an Energy Absorbing Hitch, not the so called shock absorbing Pin Box. The 5th Wheel hitch made to absorb energy will save your crappy Lippert built frame.
I work at a place that does/did testimg on these frames. The frame is inadequate. The problem has not been remedied. There is not a fix that will hold up. Best bet is to have it "repaired". Put it up for sale and get rid of it. Buy a different rv on a different chassis.
This entire situation is inexcusable. I have owned 3 RVs. 80s Class C with 190,000 miles over 20 years and not once did the frame bend, flex, or fail under load. Neither have either of my bumper pull trailers since the RV. But I guess that is what I get for stay old where the trailer designers actually build frames to last longer than 5 years. I have made my mind up to never get 5th wheel. I will stick with bumper pull where at least I can see every bit of the frame and strength if needed before a fail.
We really need to get together on these things. It's going to be bad if these companies aren't held to some kind of quality control. It's really a terrible feeling when you realize you just flushed a 100k.
Contact the NTSB. I know that Kevin with Paving New Paths has contacted them and they need to hear of this issue from a lot more RV owners to get the wheels turning on this.
we have 40 feet camper vans in UK twin axle , Identical sheet aluminium & materials used in build etc No Swan Neck , Can only be moved on Highways by Low Loader Truck , tow hook only permitted use is on camp sites,, Govt. class them unfit for Highway Use.
This may be a dumb question, but.... Is frame flex just occurring on 5th wheels only. OR can they occur on any RV like our 2014 TT (not 5th wheel) with 1 slideout (the dining table in U shape on the slide). Thanks. We want to upgrade to a little longer RV, not a 5th wheel, but don't want to buy anything made during Covid years (2019-2022) & maybe before & after with all the quality issues we've been reading about.
Good grief!! Did the engineers forget it needed to be towed down the road?? Worried too much about how the nose looks... My 1991 5th wheel frame is still going strong.
Paving New Paths has frame issues from Grand Design that are so bad that they are grounded for an undetermined amount of time. After watching your video, its been decided that when the time comes, we are sooooo not buying from them.
Good ole troll Tom boy! Man are you a hater. How many videos are out there about frame flex that clearly demonstrate this is an industry problem? And now you a have to go to another channel to spread more propaganda about this good family.😂😂
@@KylesRV Hey Kyle show us where the internet hurt your feelings! We all know you are a Grand Design employee going around trying to discredited anyone who speaks about Frame Flex! You are on every video out there sticking up for the company! Did you guys also know Kyle or Tom what ever his name is made a fake facebook account and has been posting as me on my page! Kyle you asked for this and you got it and now your feelings are hurt! wait for sundays video we tell everyone what else you have been up to!
I’m so disappointed in grand design for having these problems and not backing up the products. I’ve got a 2005 DRV mobile suite, and the third owner. One of the reasons I selected it, aside from price was that DRV makes their own frames. The frames are quite a bit more robust than what I’m seeing on the grand designs and from Lippert the DRV frames have three stacked square steel tubes with lots of welts and gussets everywhere. It just looks a lot beefier. And my unit only weighs about 16,000 pounds. Here’s hoping I’m not jinxing myself.
I don't know why the RV industry has gone to the point of dragging an entire house down the road. Why does 2 people need such a huge RV? I also love how the tech blames "American" roads for poor, shoddy manufacturing. No one takes responsibility for anything. Deflect and blame others for your inadequate behavior just like a drug addict.
It’s not lippert who is to blame for. They get the designs from Rv manufacturers. They build them to what the manufacturer wants for the price. Grand design is one of the biggest problem with framing cracks. There is a contract with lippert who have had concern about them and Grand design doesn’t care about. They want what they want and that is light cheap metal.
Tighter margins, cheaper products they look cool when they make these mono frames inside but look at the work to do a fix. Back in the day thick exposed chassis rails and draw bar easier to fix but don't look as cool
From having seen many of these reports I think it’s time for Grand Design and Lippert (and a lot of other manufacturers) to hire some new engineers. Then they need to do some quality control including materials testing and testing. Then do complete redesigns of their frames starting from their most problematic ones.
imagine the auto industry telling the second owner your warranty stopped with the first owner. more proof the rv industry needs to be governed like the auto industry
Frame failure, not frame flex, flex is normal with the trailer returning to its original shape or position,. What year is your trailer and was it built before Grand Design was sold to Winabego, curious if the original founders knew abour this issue in their 5th wheels
Part of a (grand) design is sourcing components. These RV assemblers are doing a disservice. Notice how nonchalantly the techs discuss the structural issues.
Another quick question.... have the "fixes " been approved by any structural engineer? I'm almost sure at least the welders are certified Structural welders.
Frame Flex = Bad Manufacturing If the metal box tubing didn't give out , the welds did. Don't blame it on the roads , that's what it was design to do.lol I've been welding airplane airframes for over 20+ yrs.. My guess is they need to use thicker walled tubing , at least in the front section of the unit ?
That second owner excuse is BS also. Im not original purchaser of my car. However if there is a safety recall it gets fixed. OK i understand RVs are not regulated and thats the problem.
Seems to me it would be and would have been so easy to just beef up the frame to begin with! Frame should be warrantied for at least 10 years! It's totally avoidable with proper construction.
I can't believe people think they may live full time in a metal wooden trailer without any major problems. Just think how much materials, components and wok you have to put to build a safe, sturdy and long-lasting stationary home that is immobile and how much would it cost you. Now, compare that home with this metal camping, is it really that hard to figure it out that it won't last long? Every time you change the location your RV has to rework it, it shortens its lifespan and usefulness. Addressing frame flex issues would require a robust and very thick frame to support two adults and endure frequent relocation every few weeks or days. And I'm not even persuaded it would be possible in a long term to keep it in good shape. They have to break, and they will because it is impossible in my opinion for the materials that are being used to withstand such a intensive exploit. This is just my three cents.
Problem is these rough roads that are not being maintained anymore, we hit a hard bump in road on 95north, almost throwed us outta rd, cracked fiberglass on each side of neck where it stretched frame
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TIMESTAMPS/CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
00:47 What Is RV Frame Flex?
01:07 What RV Manufacturers Are Having Frame Flex?
01:44 Is RV Frame Flex Normal?
02:21 How Did We Discover RV Frame Damage?
02:31 Proof Of Our RV Frame Flex Damage
03:09 Best RV Customer Repair Service
04:08 How Lippert Fixed Our RV Frame Flex
05:02 Where Did Our RV Frame Break?
05:24 How To Feel For RV Frame Flex?
05:37 Lippert Fixes RV Frame Damage
06:13 RV Frame Broken At Wall Strap
06:52 Do Bad Roads Cause RV Frame Damage?
07:18 Upgraded Pin Box Can Help Reduce RV Frame Damage
08:18 How Do RV Manufacturers Check For Frame Flex?
08:46 Lippert Welding Our RV Frame
09:18 Columbus RV Factory Finished Frame Repairs
09:40 Save 25% OFF RV Life & RV Trip Wizard for RV Trip Planning
11:01 Does Our Grand Design Momentum RV Have Frame Damage?
11:18 Grand Design RV Owners Complaining About Frame Flex
11:36 Is Lippert Responsible For RV Frame Flex?
12:22 Did Our RV Washer & Dryer Damage Our Frame?
13:00 RV Warranties DO NOT Extend To 2nd & 3rd Owners!
14:22 Signs of RV Frame Flex or Damage
14:30 RV Bedroom Slide Stopped Working
14:48 Do Loose Screws Indicate RV Frame Flex?
15:07 RV Pinch Molding Coming Loose
15:51 RV Toy Hauler Shows Signs Of Frame Flex At Garage
17:06 Does Bent RV Molding Indicate Frame Flex?
17:47 How To Test For RV Frame Flex
17:56 Lippert RV Upper Deck Flex Measurement
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It's not frame flex, it is frame FAILURE! Flex is normal, failure is not.
Correct.
Agreed 👍
I agree, if it's designed to give within certain parameters, but now it's going beyond those, it's now out of spec. Hence busted.
Thank you.... if people would start calling it what it is "frame failure "instead of calling it what the industry wants it called "frame flex", maybe agencies that could do something would get involved. THESE FRAMES HAVE FAILED. Stop soft stepping the manufactoring.
Agreed! I hate the term frame flex when it's clearly a failure!!
My 55 year old camper is as good as new and I have a 1950 frame that only needed a new axle because the rubber torx potion was dry rotted. Once upon a time we built great things in America. And I take off in mine for a week a month year round.
Once upon a time people wouldn't part with their money to buy junk.
RV owners have been willingly buying junk for decades now. I have a unit from the 70's that lasted me 30 yrs before I gave it away to a family who still uses it on their land. lol
It's time we form a class-action lawsuit for every Lippert frame owner! Really am sick and tired of faulty craftsmanship and poor quality of our rigs. They are seriously putting our families, traveling public, and property damage at risk. Our 2013 Montana 3150RL had similar issue. We had a mobile welder assist strengthening our hitch welds. Now to find out it was flex caused by Lippert?
Class action suits only benefit attorneys. You're still left with a damaged rv to dispose of.
Are you that desperate for your .26 cents?
Class action law suit sounds good to me on ALL lippert frames
@misterrobert6799 THANKS for your 0.26 cents! I'm not desperate! As I said, I fixed it and moved on. Have recieved several notices to join class actions for credit cards & Verizon. Anyhow, we've had our's fixed a few yrs ago at a campground. Not confident it IS properly fixed! My hope is no one is KILLED the next time we travel. At this point I do not trust moving it. Maybe I'll pay someone "insured" to professionally haul it. Nope, doesn't remove my liability sharing it here on social scumedia.
We did travel from UT to OR back to FL after a "fix" weld. Last hitch up I noticed over 1/2 inch flex.
Class action on lippert and manufacturing,I don't have frame flex,I bought junk from keystone dutchman (Thor )
I'm currently wrapped around this issue in our 2022 Grand Design 380FL. I started noticing things with the front cap area. This is a front living room model. In all of the front compartment cabinets walls are separating, the floor inside the passenger side interior cabinets is falling away, the divider walls are separating in the front cabinets, on the outside passenger side where the factory cuts in expansion joints where the nose cap meets up with the main body of the camper the nose cap area is sticking out almost 3/8" of an inch indicating the wall is shifted, the vinyl flooring in that same corner is buckling, there is clear evidence of movement on the problem areas and can see it on the vinyl decals where they meet up to the body molding, the pinbox has an inch of play when you hook and unhook, the floor in the bedroom has a 1'4" drop/sag in a 4'ft span over the floor joists. So, after 10 days of back and forth with Grand Design I will say they've been very proactive, but then again so have I. I'm lucky because the Grand Design rally is about to begin in Quartzsite, Arizona, so they are dispatching one of their mobile technicians to assess and to get it ready to be able to transport back to the factory where they said they'll take it in for full repairs. We are the original owners. Kindra, at Grand Design who's one of their warranty customer service specialists, has been very helpful and understanding. It's a process for sure and it'll most likely take many months before we're fully resolved, so if you're going through this, be patient and be proactive, but be kind and Grand Design will help. This is our 3rd Grand Design product in the last 7 years. We had 2 Momentums and now our 380FL which we love, it was our dream camper. The tech is supposed to be here on March 4th or 5th I believe. I will certainly be documenting and taking photos of what we find.
So, be patient for a complete failure of the RV and disruption our time because Grand Design failed to properly design and order a structural sufficient frame from Lipert? No offense, for a vehicle of that cost, I am going to neither be patient or understanding and Grand Design would be buying back the unit. I am sorry you are going through this but this entire situation is not really excusable.
I owed a 2003 with a similar flex problem. You would think in the last 20 years manufacturers would have corrected this problem.
Correct what problem, it was designed to FAIL. LCI built it but they and the RV manufacturer absolutely knew it was going to have issues due to weight and stress. Crap from the onset.
Folks, let’s gather around the campfire and talk about the real problem. RV’s in general are junk. They are poorly designed, poorly constructed, poorly regulated, and overpriced. I would even say they are dangerous.
The problem is only getting worse. The RV manufacturer blames Lippert, and Lippert blames the RV manufacturer. The fact is these frames were never designed for anything more than short trips to campgrounds. And they have compounded the problem by making RV's heavier and heavier. And most of these repairs end up going through insurance because the manufacturer claims that rough roads are to blame.
Thanx 4 another gooood video on this issue that is seems to be common place throughout the industry!!!
IMO, these longer coaches that log a lot of miles driving seem to have the most of the excessive frame flex issues, which leads to frame failure. As they log these miles traveling on the horrible interstates throughout the country, this violent articulating motion between the truck and coach perpetuates and manifests this issue.
Our coach is a long toyhauler, but is equipped with the Moryde Independent Suspension (IS) and our washer/dryer is in the garage with our half bath…eliminates additional pin weight. We have logged around 16K miles across the country in 17 months of full timing…no frame flex in our coach - knocking on wood. Our coach having the Moryde IS and W/D in garage is a gamechanger and mitigates a significant amount of the violent articulation that occurs on rough roads.
These longer coaches have a longer distance between the kingpin and the axles (the fulcrum point) so there is more of a “moment” or the vertical forces causing the frame flex.
A good example would be going over a long bridge and encountering the expansion joints. Everyone has experienced this, but when towing this can be quite uncomfortable, because the truck is going up and the coach is coming down. The magnitude of these forces or torque generated is significant and IMO the leading cause of the excessive frame flex, which causes frame failure.
What needs to be done is reengineer where the frame flex is occurring by adding more structural support (gussets) with more robust steel and welds. This will cost the manufacturers a few more bucks, but needs to be done for safety.
Just my 2 cents.
👍😃🍻
You should also check the spring-hangers, axles, frame, another fail point... china steel and light gauge metal is used... Most RVs use Lippert frames... cheap...
After watching all these "frame flex" videos, I will never buy a Grand Design based on their customer service. Not to mention their lack of quality in product. I understand they cannot warranty a RV forever, but there are some issues they should stand behind. If a frame ever breaks and someone gets hurt, lawyers will go after the owner to Lippert and everyone between, including Grand Design.
Not a UA-camr but we had it happen to us. It's not "just" the frame. The Momentums have several lag bolts on the side which can loosen (and in our case with one bolt) fall out completely. We didn't have any cracks in the frame but the aluminum structure forming the front of the cap had cracks on each side. Our dealer did the repairs under GD supervision and they welded the aluminum, replaced the bolt, and added about 75 lbs of gussets. They had to remove one cabinet to inspect the bolts on one side. All the other bolts were OK. I now watch the cap movement just about each time I load/disconnect the pin. One year, so far so good. ps I found the bolt on the RV site pad while setting up a full year or two before I realized what was going on.
Guys, take a look of a video I made of our 2020 forest river 178bhsk. This to has a lippert frame. I have very extensive experience towing a multitude of trailers from the smaller to the biggest 5th wheels. The moment we got on the highway to bring our new camper home I knew something wasn’t right. It’s a rather small camper at just over 4000lbs and we have a full size truck to tow it. The sway was terrible. I hear a lot about single axles but we had a single axle jayco and towed it across country with no issues at all.
After trying out a hood WD hitch with sway control it made little difference so I decided it has to be in the axle and frame so I put a go pro under my camper and if you watch the video you will see how much flex and sway the axle has under the camper. Way way to much in my opinion. And you can see the brake wire is tight against the frame as well. The day I made this video I didn’t show anyone and I shared it with forest river and lippert and it got 250 veiws that first day so they definitely passed it around. They reached out and wanted me to bring my camper in for them to look at but I declined and said I will fix the issue myself cause I didn’t want to be without a camper for month and months. I just warned them and you can see that these things are dangerous and should be recalled and fixed and the engineer should be fired. To fix my issue I welded on a 8” c channel beam as a cross member tying in the frame and the suspension spaced tube as close as I could to the rear shackle and that 100% fixed the sway issues I was experiencing. It’s getting to the point that these rv companies are putting out very unsafe products to keep the weight down. It’s a shame. Please check out my video here and watch it on a computer or tv. My heart sunk when I saw it.
ua-cam.com/video/0Zetkx6HYbM/v-deo.htmlsi=zeHgv_fl2fX47JEM
Sure see a lot more Gran Designs with broken frames. There are two of them in the campground we are at now.
See a lot of grand disasters out there. Maybe they are not all they claim to be.
Yup, our shops don’t make a fortune off them for nothing. Every week we’re fixing them.
Forest River 40' toy hauler here. I had issues with my fiberglass cracking on the sidewall at the front. I thought it was a busted frame but Lippert did inspect it and said it was a design problem . The lag bolts and screws that go into the sidewall from underneath the fifth wheel overhang were being busted apart and being pulled apart. The repair shop I went to installed new bolts and screws. First trip back to storage I could see it moving again so it's not a solid fix. I am not sure what the final fix is but will use it and inspect it every trip.
Our Montana had it and we took it to Affinity RV Group in Goshen, In. I bet they are fixing several a week it seems. They are the best at it Tom.
Unfortunately they are booked out a year. Agree they seem to be the best.
@@gorvyourself but worth the wait
My wife and I were looking at the Solitude by Grand Design. During research and due diligence we found numerous stories about poor quality of construction. Apparently everything constructed after 2019 by Grand Design is showing serious quality issues. We took the Solitude off of our buying list.
Lippert builds the frame to Grand Designs spec. There are a lot of grand design units on UA-cam with problems
I'm so glad I changed my mind and did not buy a 5th wheel. There are too many issues after only a couple of years of use. I am happy to see that Lipert (sorry if spelled wrong) step up to help figure things out. I think RV manufacturers need better engineers in their design crews.
@sherryarcher4832 go look @ your average Big Rig 5 th. wheel coupling on the trailer , No Swan neck flat chassis frame made of a suitable thickness to carry 100 ton , now if you bought a camper van on a flat chassis 2 axles 1 @ each end 1 with a swivel draw bar steering,, Eliminating 5 th. wheel coupling.. ALL your chassis problems would or should be behind you.
whatever you do don't say the words "frame flex" to the GD rep. Good luck.
They show up and downplay the problem. Blame it on the roads. The roads are what they are. Build in enough strength and it won't matter.
Exactly!! If they can't build frames that can withstand traveling down the road, then stop building frames or build them better!! Sheesh!!
Not to mention the roads are racist according to the pinhead transportation secretary.
These builders have spent many years building as light as possible, so they can come up with a lightweight. They will then match them up with the bare minimum in terms of trucks to pull them. Set new drivers free during the busiest months for traveling among a bunch of similar families on vacation.
Two types of vehicles I have always stayed clear of.
-Students driving landscaping trucks from home to home with all their gear.
-Any sort of RV during June , July and August.
Now we learn about how many of these rigs are cracking up. Wow
Just from watching videos from this issue, I can come up with 3 owners who were knowingly driving trailers back to IN. with weak frames.
You would think with that problem of flex frame, they would reinforce that area for safety reason I am sure they been testing their Rv for that problem what to do to improve or fix the problem.
The tech's comments are exactly what I was thinking. Tow vehicles are getting stronger and the average towing speed is higher, solar systems are getting more common increasing weight, and the roads have gotten worse in most states, making road impacts much more severe. I am sure Lippert has watched these claims grow every year.
For sure the average towing speed is getting higher. I drive parts of the I-15 from S. Calif to Las Vegas often. Not uncommon to see big trailers being pulled 75+. Also noticed many guys trying to show off or create penis envy by pulling a huge trailer up the 4,000 ft Cajon Pass with their big pickup at over 75+ MPH. Also not uncommon to see one at the side of the road with engine on fire at the top of the pass.
What is not mentioned in any frame failure videos is the increased truck horsepower and torque. Over the years, it has increased even over 100% in just 20 years. I seen many drivers towing 5th taking off from a stop and speeding up like nothing is behind them. Or driving down the highway doing 70-80 plus. That’s not good on the frame.
Not saying it’s all the trucks/drivers fault, but needs to be considered. It would be interesting same size frame compared with older models to see actual difference in design, material quality and welding quality.
For example, Take a 20 year old truck and haul a new 5th wheel 10k plus miles. You’re most likely burn up the truck if you try to drive it like a newer truck vs any damage to the trailer. Then take a new truck and older 5th wheel, and drive it like a new trailer. Drivers attitude changes on driving habits with newer and older vehicles. This is my observation seeing many RVers towing.
You're right there's a lot of douchebags going 75-80 with trailers that don't know what the hell they're doing.
Your point is taken and I know people who significantly overload and never scale their rigs. Its kind of a giveaway when frames fail along with rims breaks and diffs.
However truck power has increased along with increased trailer weights and GVW's.
GVW's in my opinion are too low for trailers when it is easy to exceed with standard accessories most of which are at the front of the trailer such as generators, batteries, solar batteries and washer driers. Of course if they were built with decent trailers with ample GVW we would all be forced to get heavier trucks.
This issue is also showing up on trucks with worn out differentials, failed transmissions etc.
It used to be the one ton dually for a large 5th wheel but now they are being pulled on 3/4 ton trucks.
Certainly believe frame quality is an issue though, one glance underneath and the lack of quality is obvious.
From the engineering perspective, most of these types of systems are built rigid so what you see on the outside “ comes together nicely. “ as well as how the inside looks and functions. In order for them to be built with the needed stress and flex points it would have to be a flatbed fifth wheel. Once you start to make a nice interior the design of building would need to change. No molding hiding the corner seam that will need to flex, instead a seam mounted to one side that covers the other side would be a great start. THE SHELL is solid and has no flex gaping.
My first sign of frame flex was the front end plastic screw cover coming loose when on the road on my 2020 Jayco Pinnacle.
Thank you for the information. I will definitely consider this on my next rv purchases. Probably no gooseneck, fifth wheel or Probably not even any slides for me.
We are second owners as well and GD gave us the heisman, Lippert said to go to GD our insurance company told us they don’t repair manufacturing issues and we don’t have extended warranty. We have an appointment with a shop in GA to fix this at the end of the month, out of pocket of course.
What year and model do you have?
@@kevinlentsch58 2018 GD MO 351M
I agree with other comments, it's not frame flex, its frame failure. In general the frame is engineered by design for a certain amount of flex, cracks, bends are not apart of the design. I can say on the motorhome side of the warranties end, for the REV RV Group, ie Fleetwood, Holiday Rambler, and American Coach, the warranty is transferable if you are the second or even third owner as long as the coach is still under the new coach warranty and you have transferred your info on REV Group coach owner website.
I wish they built it like my Dump truck. Dump truck carry loss of weight so the Dump truck frame is a double frame. Especially since when you’re driving a dump truck it’s always off road.
Don’t worry about the gap under the belt line trim, the J panel slides up into it and is then screwed into the “I” beam of the lower frame.
I totally agree with your comments regarding the RV manufacturers buying cheap, rather than poor engineering by Lippert.
Grand Deception, Fakest River and LIEppert are working overtime for their new names. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yes, it’s thousands. They are making people sign NDA’s, so they can’t all talk. DO NOT ACCEPT THEIR BULLSHIT EXCUSES FOR CRAPPY PRODUCTS.
They should change their names to Boeing.
@@CPO-Snarky Lmmfao
Trump is that you?!?
Grand Design and Lippert are starting to look like they are the Boeing of the RV industry.
No it’s Lippert being the mother ship of 3/4’s of the RV industry and I’ve gone circles with their warranty team in the axle division and let’s say it’s all Chinese made assembled here in the US. I’ve seen more issues with Lippert axles in the last 6 years than I care to count. All I know is I can pad slap or backing plate slap a dexter setup and go 20-30k hard miles on dexter drums before surface turning/replacing them on an equipment hauler. Lippert…. HA maybe 10k hard miles. Their 7k magnet is smaller than a dexter magnet and lipperts tend to melt the glue that bonds it together and wears a very nice groove in the drum face, not to mention I’ve had more issues with their magnets catching the drum wheel stud holes thus causing the brakes to self apply in motion…. Or the favorite - wheel studs stripping out internally…
The typical “Chinese made” talking point… the steel for the RV industry comes from the U.S and it is junk, like most Made in the US stuff is. Sure, if you buy cheap in China the quality won’t be great but if you pay what you pay for US steel in China you get top quality, China hast he newest and best Steel mills in the World!
Engineered and Made in the US is pretty much the worst you can buy these days. Overpriced, expensive junk that’s what it means! What do you expect from a Manufacturing industry that has been taken over by politics, managers and woke corporation managements?
@mikef5507 Truth.. so glad I'm now rolling on a northwoods built chassis and dexter axles.. I'll never buy anything but northwoods from here out.. top notch quality 👌
@@freedomisnotnegotiableI agree.. and I don’t blame lippert as much as I do the companies telling them to build cheap… lippert will build as good as the purchaser will pay for
you literally make no sense but nice trumptard injection into an otherwise decent conversation@@freedomisnotnegotiable
Just yesterday I installed a TrailerSaver BD5 Air Ride Suspension Hitch. It has 3 airbags and 2 shock absorbers to cushion the connection between truck and 5th wheel trailer .After watching, I feel my concerns were justified.
Got a Lincoln ranger on the back of my truck. Full time RV'r in quartzsite AZ. Hwy 89 North of Flagstaff is brutal
6:51 really you think? Obviously, because when it came from the plant/factory, it wasn’t right because it broke. So I sure hope it will be better than it was new. then he’s going to blame the roads? I drive my car and my motorcycle on some pretty crappy roads. I’ve never had my frame crack.
I bought a new 2023 keystone springdale 24 feet drove first time Oct from indiana to Washington the 2nd panel from the top opened up 4 feet across drivers side told from q rv center not enough staples holding that side plus the front pushes in while driving
I had a 2013 coachman pull behind camper and the frame behind the rear axle bent downward. We only had it 3 years and took good care of it. Thank goodness our insurance company totaled it and paid us off. I believe it is more of a design failure.
I am so glad I sold my 5th wheel. Seeing this is an issue more and more it was a good thing I got my money out when I did.
My 2023 Cherokee Wolf Pack moves more than that. Guess I need to dig into it.
This is just a thought, most 5th wheels I have seen with frame problems are three axels. Three axel trailers have always had problems due to the stress during turning.
Good point
They are having the problem with any unit over 30ft. The manufacturer under spec the frames that are over weight before they even leave the plant. They were cutting corners to save money, now it's biting them in the ass.
This is precisely what I think the problem is! And I don't think the manufacturers are testing for it. Everyone is convinced it's from carrying the weight. Trailers have gotten heavier, tires have improved, the frames are being designed heavier to carry the weight, but with the tug of war that occurs, especially when doing tight maneuvers, the upper deck takes every bit of that stress. Look up what happens when there are two equal but opposing forces. Every picture showing how that happens is done with a circle. The fifth wheel connection is that circle. A tire's job is to maintain traction. You certainly don't want your trailer trying to pass you going down the road. I think the reason the frames don't fail instantly is due to the fact the frames are engineered so well. A very slight stress crack develops and then takes time to spread and become a real problem.
Carrying the weight isn't the problem. The frames are designed in a way they can carry that weight far better than they could in the past. Improvements in technology have simply created a relatively new problem.
I actually contacted Brinkley asking if they're testing and designing specifically for this. The answer I got back reinforced my belief that this is the problem. They gave me all the ways they're over-engineering the frames to CARRY the weight. What about turning?
We have a two axel MO and have frame failure.
Can you please link to/ post the Lippert measurement document?
Sure, here is one redwoodrvowners.com/wp-content/uploads/wpforo/attachments/345/udflexguide.pdf
I’m concerned that you have all of these people coming to diagnose the problem but the comments are already at the conclusion of “frame flex” and pointing fingers. I wish people would just sit back and wait before passing judgement. Not just these problems but in life in general. Thank you for making us aware and let us know the prognosis.
Hi , question why did you go back to your O E pin box ?
What happened to the Gen Y hitch from 8 months ago.?
Thank you
dave
We still have it, this was our previous RV.
lol sorry just trying to keep up. @@EnjoyTheJourneyLife
Glad to see Forest River/Columbus stepping up.
Only because there are several people working behind the scenes to bring this very serious issue to court. Trust me………. Karma is coming to the Rv manufacturers. We are finding thousands of people screwed. Several were forced to sign NDAs but we don’t need details, just the fact that we can add names to the lists.
Is Forest River stepping up?
@@64kaimuki they aren't. They are doing the bare minimum just to cover their tails.
The problem with most RV frames they are not engineer designed frames. They’re only built to certain specs, which are not a very high standard unfortunately, even airstream have frame flex problems. Also remember, Welding takes away strength from the original metal and makes that welding point a very brutal breaking point one welding aluminum you lose 50% of the strength that’s why any good aluminum trailer all the frame rails are actually riveted with special rivets a lot of people just don’t understand mechanical engineering
Does anyone see the correlation between the Columbus and the Momentum?? Virtually all RV manufacturers BUY their frames from Lippert in the specs that they "design" for their product. Bottom line is that ALL companies GO CHEAP and spec out the Bare Minimum. In my opinion, if you purchase a travel trailer OR 5th wheel that is LONGER than 32 feet, you WILL have a problem related to the frame. Horse trailers don't seem to have this problem because they build it super beefy and YES they cost more money.
sorry that happened to you .I had that happen to a 36’ 5th wheel front frame broke buy hitch and frame broke just behind axles it’s not frame flex it to light gage steel and not enough gussets and poor welding it was so bad it could not be towed . i sued sued tv manufacturer and frame manufacturer and dealership got all money back and attorneys fees back plus’s damages
Nothing new here…
My 2006 Glendale Titanium 29E34TS with the Lippert frame had this exact same issue.
Obviously Lippert didn’t learn (or didn’t care).
People listen up, if you have a Lippert built 5th Wheel frame get an Energy Absorbing Hitch, not the so called shock absorbing Pin Box. The 5th Wheel hitch made to absorb energy will save your crappy Lippert built frame.
Gotta love the tech to customer lip service. We will get you to the plant no problem. They will do the proper repairs there 😂
I work at a place that does/did testimg on these frames. The frame is inadequate. The problem has not been remedied. There is not a fix that will hold up. Best bet is to have it "repaired". Put it up for sale and get rid of it. Buy a different rv on a different chassis.
I just returned home and found frame failure on my 2019 3250ik. Severe cracks on all four sides of the pin box.
This entire situation is inexcusable. I have owned 3 RVs. 80s Class C with 190,000 miles over 20 years and not once did the frame bend, flex, or fail under load. Neither have either of my bumper pull trailers since the RV. But I guess that is what I get for stay old where the trailer designers actually build frames to last longer than 5 years. I have made my mind up to never get 5th wheel. I will stick with bumper pull where at least I can see every bit of the frame and strength if needed before a fail.
It’s awesome you were able to some experts in to help fix your issues.
They didn't fix anything but put lipstick on pig.
We really need to get together on these things. It's going to be bad if these companies aren't held to some kind of quality control. It's really a terrible feeling when you realize you just flushed a 100k.
Contact the NTSB. I know that Kevin with Paving New Paths has contacted them and they need to hear of this issue from a lot more RV owners to get the wheels turning on this.
we have 40 feet camper vans in UK twin axle , Identical sheet aluminium & materials used in build etc No Swan Neck , Can only be moved on Highways by Low Loader Truck , tow hook only permitted use is on camp sites,, Govt. class them unfit for Highway Use.
Its a good job that big trucks seem to have better manufacturing or the roads would be a mess. I have never seen a goose neck or step trailer fail.
I don’t know , what do you think it is? How do I know , I just work here. You are good to go! Last famous words.
You got to wonder if fixing this issue will cause another. The crack will just migrate to next weakiest area of Frame will break now.
I don’t think you should notice anything until you have a load on it and the helper springs are engaged….
Washers and dryers do not weigh that much. Washer probably 150-175, dryer under 100lbs so it’s not adding that much to pin weight imho
Not only that - the RV is prepped for a generator and a washer/dryer so it should be engineered to have those installed?!?
This may be a dumb question, but....
Is frame flex just occurring on 5th wheels only. OR can they occur on any RV like our 2014 TT (not 5th wheel) with 1 slideout (the dining table in U shape on the slide).
Thanks.
We want to upgrade to a little longer RV, not a 5th wheel, but don't want to buy anything made during Covid years (2019-2022) & maybe before & after with all the quality issues we've been reading about.
A-frame damage on TTs has occurred many times over the years. You can find videos on that on UA-cam.
Good luck! Hoping it's not frame failure!
Just curious, what is the weight of your Rv, axle weight, and pin weight.
After pondering the shape and weight of these large fifth wheels it seems like a major engineering challenge to make it strong and lightweight
Common on 5th wheels.
Good grief!! Did the engineers forget it needed to be towed down the road?? Worried too much about how the nose looks... My 1991 5th wheel frame is still going strong.
Paving New Paths has frame issues from Grand Design that are so bad that they are grounded for an undetermined amount of time. After watching your video, its been decided that when the time comes, we are sooooo not buying from them.
Good ole troll Tom boy! Man are you a hater. How many videos are out there about frame flex that clearly demonstrate this is an industry problem? And now you a have to go to another channel to spread more propaganda about this good family.😂😂
@@KylesRV
Hey Kyle show us where the internet hurt your feelings! We all know you are a Grand Design employee going around trying to discredited anyone who speaks about Frame Flex! You are on every video out there sticking up for the company! Did you guys also know Kyle or Tom what ever his name is made a fake facebook account and has been posting as me on my page! Kyle you asked for this and you got it and now your feelings are hurt! wait for sundays video we tell everyone what else you have been up to!
In the first place why don’t they place steel tubing between the gap in the rear off the pin of the camper?
I’m curious, did you ever weight your rig to see that you are under gross vehicle weight?
I’m so disappointed in grand design for having these problems and not backing up the products.
I’ve got a 2005 DRV mobile suite, and the third owner. One of the reasons I selected it, aside from price was that DRV makes their own frames. The frames are quite a bit more robust than what I’m seeing on the grand designs and from Lippert the DRV frames have three stacked square steel tubes with lots of welts and gussets everywhere. It just looks a lot beefier. And my unit only weighs about 16,000 pounds. Here’s hoping I’m not jinxing myself.
I don't know why the RV industry has gone to the point of dragging an entire house down the road. Why does 2 people need such a huge RV?
I also love how the tech blames "American" roads for poor, shoddy manufacturing. No one takes responsibility for anything. Deflect and blame others for your inadequate behavior just like a drug addict.
Thank you for sharing and giving us a heads up. This is seriously scary
Buy an Arctic fox.. in 10 years you'll be very happy with your purchase and resell
Lippert, the first word in RV heartaches.
It’s not lippert who is to blame for. They get the designs from Rv manufacturers. They build them to what the manufacturer wants for the price. Grand design is one of the biggest problem with framing cracks. There is a contract with lippert who have had concern about them and Grand design doesn’t care about. They want what they want and that is light cheap metal.
It’s the inferior steel that Lippert is buying from China. Dubai high rise buildings are being investigated for this.
You mean LIEppert? Lol
@@kevink4914 Really? How many Grand Design RVs have been affected? Stop spreading unsupported innuendo and gossip.
@@ZonaJimlook it up for yourself on. It’s not bs made up crap.
Defiantly doubting getting a 5th wheel rv - looks like this ha been a problem for quite some time………
Tighter margins, cheaper products they look cool when they make these mono frames inside but look at the work to do a fix. Back in the day thick exposed chassis rails and draw bar easier to fix but don't look as cool
Isn't this the same trailer you dropped once upon a time. Is it possible that contributed to the issue?
I have 2019 keystone fifth wheel 40k road miles no problem
Loved our ATC trailer for specifically NOT having these issues.
From having seen many of these reports I think it’s time for Grand Design and Lippert (and a lot of other manufacturers) to hire some new engineers. Then they need to do some quality control including materials testing and testing. Then do complete redesigns of their frames starting from their most problematic ones.
My understanding it's 99% of GD construction on the frames since Winnebago took over. Very rare with other manufactures.
imagine the auto industry telling the second owner your warranty stopped with the first owner.
more proof the rv industry needs to be governed like the auto industry
More regulations means more cost. You'll pay in the end. How about you "regulate" with your wallet? Don't buy em....
I subscribed to RV Life & RV Trip Wizard... what a waste if money. I purchased it due to towing a
Frame failure, not frame flex, flex is normal with the trailer returning to its original shape or position,. What year is your trailer and was it built before Grand Design was sold to Winabego, curious if the original founders knew abour this issue in their 5th wheels
🇨🇦 hope you disconnected the batteries before welding.
For sure Grand Design has their problems, but this is not a Grand Design Momentum it’s a different company. The problem is is almost industry wide
Part of a (grand) design is sourcing components. These RV assemblers are doing a disservice. Notice how nonchalantly the techs discuss the structural issues.
How often are we supposed to weigh our RV's?
Another quick question.... have the "fixes " been approved by any structural engineer? I'm almost sure at least the welders are certified Structural welders.
I am absolutely certain that the welders are certified structural welders I'm pretty sure.
So wait does his current rig have flex or not? I wish titles could just be straight forward
What clinic in AR for CRPS? I have patients with it i have been looking for a specialist to refer them to for crps. Thanks.
Frame Flex = Bad Manufacturing If the metal box tubing didn't give out , the welds did. Don't blame it on the roads , that's what it was design to do.lol I've been welding airplane airframes for over 20+ yrs.. My guess is they need to use thicker walled tubing , at least in the front section of the unit ?
Come through the factory with defects but are still used
That second owner excuse is BS also. Im not original purchaser of my car. However if there is a safety recall it gets fixed. OK i understand RVs are not regulated and thats the problem.
Seems to me it would be and would have been so easy to just beef up the frame to begin with! Frame should be warrantied for at least 10 years! It's totally avoidable with proper construction.
I can't believe people think they may live full time in a metal wooden trailer without any major problems. Just think how much materials, components and wok you have to put to build a safe, sturdy and long-lasting stationary home that is immobile and how much would it cost you. Now, compare that home with this metal camping, is it really that hard to figure it out that it won't last long? Every time you change the location your RV has to rework it, it shortens its lifespan and usefulness. Addressing frame flex issues would require a robust and very thick frame to support two adults and endure frequent relocation every few weeks or days. And I'm not even persuaded it would be possible in a long term to keep it in good shape. They have to break, and they will because it is impossible in my opinion for the materials that are being used to withstand such a intensive exploit. This is just my three cents.
Problem is these rough roads that are not being maintained anymore, we hit a hard bump in road on 95north, almost throwed us outta rd, cracked fiberglass on each side of neck where it stretched frame
Cars are not breaking frames like these RV's are. These frames are under designed or poorly manufactured
Cars are not 40 ft long and weigh 16k pds
Is frame flex just something that happens with 5th wheels??
I’d say everyone that has purchased in the last few years might suffer frame failure. It’s truly scary!
Staying away from fifth wheels. I'll stick with my travel trailer.