WHAT??? Your Frame is Broke! Lippert Broken RV Frame 7-27-22 DRV Elite Suites
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2022
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Broken Lippert RV frame. Broken frames on the DRV's so Far are from 2014 to about 2017 for the frame build date but you should inspect regardless. Here is a video showing the discovery all the way to the end repair. If you find your frame cracked or broken then contact Lippert immediately to have an inspection scheduled.
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Being a welder for over 42 years and built lots of heavy duty trailers for the oil and gas industry, we always used fish plates and gussets at joints to make them stronger than just butt welds. These people were extremely lucky to have caught the failure before it came apart while doing highway speeds going over a bridge or a double bump in the road.
Old welder here, was going to say the same thing. The engineers dropped the ball on this, revision 1.0?
Yes...I'm not a welder. But I've been in the trucking and construction industry for almost 40 years. Even I know how it's supposed to be done.
Hope for the best for this family
Wow I'll never buy one😢
What is a Oil Field, is it like a electric field? Lol old times are not forgotten.
I discovered a 3’long crack in the Lippert manufactured frame on my pull behind a few years ago. You could see daylight through it. If I would have relied on Lippert to fix it it would still be 1500 miles from home. I found a welder who came out to my campsite, plated it and welded it. You got to think outside the box on this stuff. The dealers and manufacturers don’t want to see you again once you drive off the lot. You’re dead to them.
Sometimes, literally.
But then you are not making the manufacturer take responsibility.
@@backtoasimplelifethey are RV’s. The manufacturer never takes responsibility. They are all lemons. Terrible build quality
@@backtoasimplelifeApparently RVs aren't held to the same standards as vehicles. The warranty doesn't even have to be honored.
@@drwisdom1 you got that right.
I have a daughter who is going to school to be a lawyer. She’s talking with the lawyers she’s working with, to see if there are grounds for a class action lawsuit. I’m helping her gather names. This should be criminal if it’s not. So far, social media has helped me find dozens of families screwed over by LIEppert, and the rv industry.
We have the same problem with our 2006 carriage c force. The side paneling is cracked.
Bottom line here is DRV and LCI are building substandard frames and coaches! It is Fantastic that you have exposed the two Corporations to their failures when designing the rigs components! Even the after repairs was substandard that will not stand up to the test of time. This Coach should have been totaled due to the extent of the damage. Hopefully the owners recognize this fact and take steps to hold these companies accountable!
How is this the fault of lipert? They build off blueprint supplied to manufacturers specifications. Lipert has nothing to do with what the manufacturer does with the fame once it’s received. Maybe you should think or not just spout something you know nothing about.
That case of being under-designed means that you may have a case against the manufacturer under the warrantee of merchantability. If you choose to sue the manufacturer, you would need to talk to a lawyer.
Lippert apparently builds the frames that were ORDERED by the manufacturer; the mfgr orders thin steel frames to lower the weight of the trailer, so they can advertise it as half ton towable! its all MARKETING....
@@Lauren-vd4qe This thing is not half tonne towable
true but the sellers market plenty of them as such. perhaps they mean u could tow it across the yard with a half ton...@@sarahann530
From a long-term welding inspector, I saw more than 7 major welding, frame support, material selection and improper techniques used on this RV.
Get an attorney because at some point when you’re not satisfied, they will quit responding and you will be ahead of the game.
Could it be they are using crappy metal, or, is the Frame supplier just incompetent???
@@michaelashcraft8569 actually all of what you just said even down to the use of the wrong welding rods or how they were stored. From the views of the metal on this one as well as others I’ve seen, the metal was the basic problem and was not “Heat-Treated” prior to welding, but the other big factor is there are a lot of missing support structure pieces.
My guess is they are struggling with labor problems and anyone that can weld is being given the job and probably doesn’t know what the end resulting product will be.
@@Chief351L Minimum wage welders give you minimum wage welds...
The cracks on both sides look more like a design problem. Either the metal isn't up to snuff or the designer didn't build in enough bracing.
@@quademasters249 oh I definitely agree on that. The way the metal separated was indication of wrong choice of material.
@@michaelashcraft8569 material looks too thin for such a large trailer
Thank you for the video!! And exposing lippert!! My personal opinion, they should be sued out of business and never make another frame in their lifetime. I have had two frames onto different makes of trailer the exact same thing happened to, except one of them was so horrible, I had been working in Pennsylvania and was headed west coming home when I had to make a detour to Northern Indiana to drop the trailer off so lippard could fix it. And six months after they fixed it it was breaking again. I weld for a living and have been doing so for 35 years. What they're doing in their shop, a high school welding instructor wouldn't even call it welding. They are an absolute joke and need to be sued!!
Lippert builds the frames to the specs the RV company gives them. If the design is bad which most are they will fall apart. and it's not Lipperts fault. Bad investment.
@@sundancer3700I disagree. Lippert engineers should know if the manufacturer design will result in frame failure or has potential and refuse to do it OR make sure the welds are strong enough to support the designs. They absolutely have culpability in this issue.
@@jeffhubert8769 And where did you come up with that. For over 30 years I have built homes and commercial buildings. Once I have the drawings like Lippert would get for a frame up the building goes, I never question the materials but follow the drawings to the last detail. If there is a problem it goes back on the engineer which would be like the RV company. Everybody loves to point the finger at Lippert when they are only building what the RV company specs.
I Highly doubt all Lippert is doing is welding some sticks together. They have to be much more involved than that. Otherwise these companies are outsourcing their frames simply to have the ability to point fingers once something goes wrong. If you were the one who did the engineering and design and made the plans and literally build 90% of the RV, what's it cost you pay a wilder to make the frames yourself? I have to imagine it would even be cheaper.@@sundancer3700
Thank goodness they don't build aircraft.....
Retired RV Tech here. After years of repairing trailers and fifth wheels all I can say is that they are all crap! (except Airstream). These things are made alike across the board. The expensive ones look pretty...But they are crap! When I was assigned to go out and do some warranty repairs, I was the one to catch the Hell from an angry customer. It got to the point where I simply told them I'm not the one who built it. I'm not the one who sold it. But I am the one here to fix the problems. The only thing I can recommend is to purchase an Airstream. They're Not without their problems. but they are miles ahead of any others in quality. Its just too bad they don't make a Fifth wheel. Or maybe they're just smart!
Airstream is shit too, since Thor took over.
Thor=airstream
I agree they are all junk and people are stupid if they purchase this crap.
Finally a video that shows just what my 2016 Vengeance is doing. The front is moving just like this when I put it on the truck. I now have a better idea of where else to start looking for cracks in the frame.
Lipert knows exactly where the cracks are , where they start and where the end and how long their repairs will last .They also know about the lower frame at the axles are cracked . They also know about the Pinbox failures and where the cracks are .They can tell you just how many inches of weld that the entire repair will require .
If they know about it, why aren't people holding them accountable?
Lippert doesnt design the frames, they build them to specs by the manufacturers, if the frames come in overweight, they are rejected and Lippert wont get paid for a 40 thousand dollar frame they just built.
@@ricksmith7631 If all Lippert does is weld some sticks together, Then why the hell are they even part of the equation. The manufacture should just build the frame themselves. They already make 90% of the RV as is.
Also you are dead wrong And I quote Lippert "Since we design, develop, and service all the major systems below the floor of the RV (chassis, steps, slides, axles, suspension, pin boxes, and more), we know better than anyone how these systems work together." So yes, Lippert are the ones who design their frames stop spending misinformation.
@@aco2518 wrong, lippert designs and builds the subsystems of the unit. manufacturer engineers design the frames and lippert builds them to their specs. ive been to keystone, jayco and also spent some time at lippert doing training. also lippert isnt into building campers and they never will. thought i explained this plenty clear in the original but id be willing to explain it in crayon terms if that would help you understand better
@@ricksmith7631 Cool, so the manufacturer engineers the chassis and calculates all of the dynamic and static forces and moments and makes sure it's safe. What then does Lippert mean when they say they 'design' and 'develop' the 'chassis'? and what exactly are the subsystems that you say they design?
I'm so glad to find this video. A couple weeks ago I purchased on-the-spot a beautiful 2016 Forest River Palomino Columbus 295RLC 5th wheel RV (built Nov 2015). While the RV designs are very much alike, the RV builder is different than the one in this video, however the physical chassis frame is the same which is also a Lippert Component build and as soon as I get back to Tennessee in 9-days, that is the very first thing I'm going to check on mine. Why this bothers me is because on mine, the space above is a bedroom with queen size bed and a stacked washer/dryer unit in that corner closet in the nose of the RV. What disturbs me in this video are the welds on the finished product, that is not going to hold for very long as the bonding between the new steel and the old steel is very poor and inexcusable. That shoddy welding needs to be ground down and done correctly. In addition, there should've been 1/2" inch thick gussets welded to the inside of where the new steel meets old steel to prevent side loading and flexing. I like the new larger sized steel used in this repair but the welding leaves much to be desired.
I wouldn't really call that welding.
Doesn't surprise me.
I bought a brand new travel trailer in 2013 and after a few trips, I was cleaning it and found one bolt that holds the wall to the frame loose, so I tightened it. I then looked at the rest of the bolts and found that all of them were loose! I was able to tighten all but one which was free spinning. I'm assuming it's a carriage bolt inside of the wall so the only way to fix it is to open up the wall!
I ended up double nutting all the other bolts with Locktite. In place of a bolt at the back side of the trailer, they actually just used a long wood screw!
Yup, quality made in America right there.
IMHO, 45 degree rectangular tube gusset, designed way too close to the corner. It does not appear to effectively resolve torsional stresses caused by the leverage arm generated as the weigh & inertial forces are suspended on the front of the trailer as it rests on the pin box. Of course, manufacturer will probably claim, overloading or driving too fast over rough roads.
Again, IMO, the fix / repair & original engineering, should have included a second 45 degree brace, about 12" ahead (or as far forward as operational functionality allows) of the original brace / gusset, in addition to the repair..
BTW, Nomad, good job saving your clients a road catastrophe. You deserve a medal! (LOL, edited b/c spell check strikes again!)
If there was fairness, the manufacturer and the couple's and manufacturer's insurance companies should award you significant $s!
Best regards, Dennis
Thank you for presenting these issues. I had considered getting involved but its clear I dont have the capital to pay so much snd sell at a loss after so much agravation. Good luck all you have my smpathies
Wow. Glad you posted this. I'll check mine immediately
I'll stay safe and retired at home, lol!
I am eager to see how this fix will evolve in the future. If it was my rig, I’d open it again after one year to give it an inspection. I suspect it might break again. 😢
I've been welding and fabricating for over 50 years and I also have a Montana 5th wheel RV. I have repaired plenty of campers over the years. The major thing I have found is that the frame manufacturers use to thin of tubing for areas that require more strength. They also don't use gussets for bracing in statigic areas. Another thing that I have noticed is the bad quality of welds. Most frame companies use mig monkeys on the assembly line and they are rated on production.
Wow.... what a nightmare.... Great video.
I have a North Point 385THWS. Under warranty, it was taken to Minnesota to have the frame repaired and fiberglass panels repaired for this problem. The welds the spring shackle braces are bad. I have had 2 different hangers break. On the road. In January I’m going to Morride to have 3 new axels and suspension installed. I just don’t trust LCI work. When the shackles broke, dealer said LCI would not do anything.
LCI will build whatever frame the manufacturer requests. After that, they are done. The manufacturer provides the specs and it is their engineers responsibility to ensure proper loading capacity. Manufacturers are overloading their rigs more and more every year while not ordering proper frame capacities due to price. JMO.
Wrong, LCI designs their frames. Here is a direct quote from their website. "Since we design, develop, and service ALL the major systems below the floor of the RV (chassis, steps, slides, axles, suspension, pin boxes, and more), we know better than anyone how these systems work together." Stop spreading misinformation.
WOW that is so very sad. I have a 2012 DRV Elite and I so far have had no INDICATION of a crack but I would assume it could. Praying you get your home back.
DRV?
This is why I should keep my 1978 converted to a rear swing-door toyhauler. Real frame work the thickness it should all be. It was pulled apart, inside & out walls, insulated with iso-sheets of insulation that can’t be ruined by water/humidity, and put back together. Box framed rear to accept the swing door.
It’s 78 pretty, but I don’t have to worry about it liking someone on the road.
1979 Jayco Pinnacle 35' 5th wheel. .Big rack and pinion slides. No basement, everything inside. No computers and doo dads. Inside was re-done like new for $2k. Paid $5,000 cash. Full time. Everything is perfect. Afraid to sell it.
RV workmanship, mine had two basement boxes fall free of the supports and an entrance door that was installed out of square. Along with cabinets which fell apart. Slide leaks were another problem. It was a cheap unit I guess, list was $106,000
Well as a former LCI employee I must say those welds look like they came out of plant 19 where I used to work. Back then they didn't care how the welds looked as long as they were 1) in the correct place, and 2) were done according to print. 100% welds were passed that looked like explosive diarrhea on a plate and ultimately that's why I left. Guys didn't care because they were making $20-25/hr back in 2013/2014
Holy crap they’re making that much 😂
@@doubled8247 more now lmao. That place is a joke
this is scary. would you mind if I ask you a few questions? I'm having some troubles with an RV
@@pxo7407 ask away. I'm not in the rv industry anymore but might be of some help
@@fridgebeer6897 how would I know if the welds were bad on my RV and causing some of the problems that are going on? And they're numerous.
This has got me holding off on buying a new Momentum, and questioning the whole industry even more. 120k, 145k MSRP, is a lot to always have this on the back of my mind.
Actually makes me want to look at the cheaper ones even more. At least I will expect issues that way.
Don't do it. My wife and I were looking into getting a new camper. I have done Ton's of online and in person investigation and have come to the conclusion that we will never buy another R.V. This is very sad because we both enjoy camping a lot. All the R.V. companies are building crap campers. They have no accountability in what they make, it's always someone else's fault. You can't have a quality product when you make 25-30 units in a 6 hour day and there are several companies that do that consistently. If you had the opportunity like I have had to see how these are made up close you will never buy another R.V.
@@kingsalmon5905 what about airstream?
We do not have an airstream factory in my area that I know of. They have been around for years, and the old ones are still holding up. I can't in good conscience make a decision on airstream.
@@kingsalmon5905 made here in Ohio and they seem to really care about quality.
The other brand I’m considering is ATC. One of my friends has one. It’s not perfect, but it isn’t over complicated and appears to be made with good materials, and the company stands behind them.
I’ve got a family that loves to camp and a RZR. I’ve been renting toyhaulers for years, and I can’t believe how poor quality the 2010+ trailers are.
Looks like a good inspection guys. Around 4:10, I would slightly differ in opinion. The frame imho is rusting not from a water leak, but I believe they are transported as bare frames before assembly. The mfg will have like 10+ frames stacked up on a truck to deliver the frames to the RV mfg. In my opinion, they are often slightly rusty from that trip, or just from being bare steel delivered in the winter, in the rust belt, to the mfg and not completely sandblasted/rust treated before the RV is assembled.
My Jayco with a lippert frame has some rust underneath the paint the same way, and it's never seen salt since we bought it new.
they painted before delivery but cheaply. There was two pieces of steel together so water problem got between them and rusted the bare metal.
As someone that works in structural engineering, I would LOVE to see the actual frame design. I also have serious concern for their "repair" at the moment. Hard points as we call them, cause stress concentration and just moves the failure point. As an example, consider bending a stick in a U until it breaks. Then do the same with another identical stick, but slip a steel tube sleeve over the area where the other one broke. Can you guess where it will break now? Either that frame was taken beyond its design (capacity) limits, or Lippert is running their margin of safety WAY too thin! Can't say I've seen many gooseneck to semi trailers do that without an "event"...
Hi Brad. I would suggest also looking at the materials - structural steel sourcing. If the structural steel is made outside of North America there can be metallurgical issues. They would need better incoming inspection and testing of the materials they accept. When metal was made in the US it was of consistently higher quality. I've seen this from my own experience with outsourcing materials to vendors. It is possible that the frame size could be adequate if the material were properly spec'd. Metal that is even slightly soft or brittle or off spec in any number of other properties can cause these issues.
No engineering code of ethics here
Wonder what the stress analysis Would show. Was there any load testing done!
Limit, ultimate load testing? Get a lawyer.
@@markf3416 Probably no engineering at all. No evidence that any kind of dynamic analysis was ever performed for these structures.
You can see the entire drv frame, especially the area in question here in their how it's made video here on UA-cam. Look it up. Type "DRV factory tour ". It's the top three search results. Enjoy!
These new RV's cost a fortune and the quality just isn't there, sure they look nice but that's it. The square metal tubing used for the goose neck frame seems to be too thin, I would bet that even after they "patch it up" it will eventually crack somewhere else on that goose neck( probably the top part of the goose neck ), please keep us posted in the coming months.
Check out Luxe 5th wheels, they don't have any build quality issues like that, not much more than a DRV. Each one hand built.
@@douglasscott5623 Luxe is in a whole different league for sure!👍
Get a mobile welder to weld it for you and install plates to reinforce the breaks on site .Then your done . Also check your big I beam s at the axles at the Cross braces . Shackles , springs and cracks along your I beams .
No "I-beams" on DRV.
I have a 2020 Sierra (Forest River) 5th Wheel currently at my local dealership with cracked frame/broken weld issues. It has been 7 weeks now since I discovered the issue. The fiberglass was separating on the non-door side of the 5th wheel overhang, along the curve of the 5th wheel. The issue was happening mostly when the camper had all of the weight on the pin box while connected to my truck. When I unhooked the 5th wheel from the truck, putting all of the weight on the legs of the camper, the fiberglass would suck back into place. There is a slide out that sits over the curve of the 5th wheel overhang and now the aluminum structure wall, that the slide out sits in, cracked/broke and gave way with the weight of the slide out causing the slide out to collapse. When the slide out collapsed down, to the floor of the camper, the exterior fiberglass wall and the interior wall both cracked in a diagonal line. I am currently dealing with the insurance, which sent a forensic engineer to look at the camper's issues, but am getting no where with them currently. I have one of the first Lippert Rhino Box frames that came off of the market for Forest River, but since the camper is just under 3 years old Forest River doesn't want anything to do with it. They told my local Forest River dealership that since I had a 2" receiver hitch welded to the rear of the frame of the camper, to haul a bike rack once and a cargo carrier once, they said I altered the frame and they said there is nothing they can do for me. I wish I had somebody like you that was able to deal with my camper frame issues.
me too, mine is a 21 River Ranch
When you said welder?? I was like oh hell no this thing is done. But thank god they are taking it.
They are building these frames to "spec", as ordered by the RV manufacturer. They are using 1/8" steel, which is NEVER going to hold. From what I understand they have a 70% failure rate. I've been looking at getting a 5th Wheel RV. Thanks to videos like this, I know the questions I will be asking.
You need to report this to the DOT Department of Transportation
Thanks for this information. I am looking for a used trailer and really prefer older units. Now I know not to buy any Lippert frame units. Personally, Lippert should buy the trailer before they get a law suit that will bankrupt the company. What a bunch of jerks making you give then a clean frame to work on,
Great video!!
I worked for a trailer company doing assembly over the summer and I would never, never buy a RV lightweight cheapest parts and components that the company can buy, assembled with boxes of staples, screws, sealants, caulking tape. Basically a mobile home that is towed around.
Company used Limpart frames, we needed to check each frame coming off the stack to make sure all the welds were present. We had spring hanger brackets missing welds, out riggers held with tacks, huge areas not painted or primed. We had touch up paint and a welded at the first station just to correct this.
Both the RV company and and the Limpart plants closed down 20 years ago.
Mine is moving inside the camper, about bed,moving 3/4 ins, rip the wall. Now got to take it 50 miles from house, hope we make it.
Really shows how badly US motorhomes , caravans / fifth wheel units are under all the bling . I’ve been in so many and they feel so cheaply put together
You'd think the manufacturers send their best samples to the RV shows. I've seen more than a few at shows that I could see were not built well without really looking.
@@JasonW. the whole industry is a joke/scam
Just realized that I’m sick just watching this. I’m a Forrest river owner fixing to do some inspections
Wow, the amount of money these campers cost, you would think they would be built better! Just expensive junk in my opinion. Thank goodness no one was hurt in pulling it down the road.
Nice job!!
Our 2004 Cougar (Lippert) frame broke twice. Garbage steel and garbage welding. LCI blew me off both times.
HOLY SHIWT. Good catch. That could of ended a lot of lives.
Those structural cracks are insane! Four main frame supports. All pretty on the outside, but on the inside?
My goodness! They should have fish plated that. Glad you got it fixed. But I'm betting those new uprights aren't going to hold up. Sorry, but that's not how you fix a major structural frame break where all your stress is located. In my humble opinion, I would have made them fabricate a fish plate running at least 10 or 12 inches long running up, down and diagonal to the frame. I was looking at drv's too.
Best of luck to you all
This is class action level work. Get your lawyers
RV quality issues have always been below par and everyone knows or at least suspects that this is the case and has always been but we keep buying them regardless. I've always tend to go with a travel trailer over a 5th wheel because of the basic design. Over the years my brother in law has always gone the 5th wheel route and has always 'always' had issues and some head busting issues. He down sized (42 foot to 38 foot) with his last purchase and bad quality issue haven't let off. He's had 4 rigs in the last 10 years and is now (end of 2022) seriously thinking of getting a travel trailer. I'm on my 2nd travel trailer in 8 years. My first trailer was a lowly 20 footer and after 2 years traded up for a 25 foot Cruiser RV 21RB and haven't had any real issues. Quality is still far from heavenly.
This video is a total heart breaker. I can just hope the best for you and stay safe.
*you mean lowly not lonely
@@jessihawkins9116 I have to blame autocorrect for that one ! I'll edit that right now !
Good welds Don't break.
The steel along side the weld will break before the weld if the welding is done correctly, NOW I am electric ark welding ( 4711) tickets. All positions.
Mig welding ( wire feed) welding often the steel does not have the prep, ie gap setting to allow good penetration, also often a flat, or hollow weld , when it should be a raised finish.
.
.Sadly a weak weld can look ok, but does not have the strength that's needed of it.
I work at a major port and see a lot of imported steel arriving which may or maynot be of the best quality. I just wonder where does Lippert get their steel.
It amazes me the crap that we build in this country
Not sure if it’s an engineering problem or cost savings or poor manufacturing practices but all of these problems get covered up when the rig is built and the owner is left with trying to figure out what went wrong
Looks like Lippert should have a test mule on hand so they can see what happens to their product over time
I would hate to think that they just don’t care
Sadly quality seems to be going down, and not just with the RV industry, I try to always support my country but when you look at individual components, made in China! Maybe due to costs, I'm not sure but we're going backwards with manufacturing.
It’s called capitalism. As long as people continue to pay for junk the companies will continue to manufacture junk and increase the price. If enough people complain, sue and stop purchasing the manufacture will either go bankrupt or fix the issues.
It’s not engineers, its trivial to calculate how to build a frame properly. It’s shitty product managers worried too much about the profit margins and putting the money into fancy lights instead of proper frames.
Those are all Republican trash business owners. Once they get your money you are on your own.
Someone called John Jones thinks it’s a Republican owned company problem
I’m not really sure how politics figures in this he must just be an angry liberal that believes every liberal owned company builds the best
This next election should make him happy again
Was the wiring going through gusset aluminum without a rubber grommit to protect sheathing on wire?
Thanks for sharing this video. Is Lippert continuing to make these frames the previous way or with the additional metal? I understand this was an older trailer, but have they modified their design?
That’s unbelievable !!!!!!
I’ve had my 5th wheel - bought new- 2014 , looked very nice and expensive to boot - however upon closer inspection - I had to put 40 hours of repair work in it before I can pull down the highway with peace of mind so basically I bought an expensive piece of junk all that being said I love my camper but I would never ever buy a new one and now I know what to look for !!!!! some of the comments said they’re all junk and I agree 100%
How do we find when our frame was built.. also how do we get to the frame to inspect it with out tearing everything apart? I do not see any gaps with my unit yet but! 2022 reflections 150series 260 rd
Looks like cheap steel to be cracked like that,or just to thin. I had a 14 brand new and fit and finish was a joke. Decided to go the school bus route and if any problems only me to blame. And a whole lot cheaper. Hoping for the best for ya guys.
I’d want a new camper after this.
Lol they won't even cover warranty most of the time. The next new one you would buy would be all jacked up as well. Camper industry is garbage.
Yeah... This engineer says it's both a design problem and a loading problem. I too just repaired and reinforced my cracked Lippert frame.
with all these different people it almost has to be a design/engineer issue. Using to small of a frame tube steel
could I ask you some questions about what you mean? I'm having problems too
Wow. I’m not an RV’r, but I feel bad for you guys. I expect to start seeing those lawyer commercials (like you see for asbestos) soon.
I wonder if the frame mfr does load testing...simulating the weight and varying road and weather conditions. if not they should...and intentionally overload to see what happens and where before the frame is approved for market. I also wonder if the feds at NHTSA can step in...they should...they are all collisions waiting to happen with this frame design.
I have been watching clips of these cracks and breaks for a while now, what is the NSTB doing about having the manufactures recall these trailers to do an Inspection to insure they are safe to even be on the road?
this is one reason why I bought a cargo trailer and built it out myself.
As a hvac tech for 35 yrs, I once saw a demonstration on bolt strength. American verses import. Grade 8. After the demonstration I found out why only American made bolts are spec. In nuclear power plant construction. The imports don’t care to make the quality American bolt manufacturers live up to. To this day, I look at bolts, screws, and fasteners a totally different light
Hello, my comment is for everybody answer! Tell me what you think. Well I have a Forest River Sandpiper 2017 381RBOK, I took some mesurements for the upper deck frame to see how much flex I got. I came out with 1/4'' flex when hitch to the truck. What do you think ?
Lippert really needs to reinforce these frames. Geesh add an extra hundred pound of steel and reinforce everything.
It might be to your advantage to have the whole front of your upper deck and basement structure with a heavier better metal . It will save you the trouble a little bit down the road . When you weld Junk you get junk.
I’m surprised that working on the frame prior doesn’t void the warranty
in my opinion after being in engineering and welding for 45 yrs.. if the structure is to ridged and cant move it will fatigue and some where it ill give up its structure.airplane wings are made to move u7nder a load ..for instance the C5 Galaxy that Lockheed Marietta made was designed so as the wing would move up and down 18 feet. automobile frames are made to twist under sever loads.steel must be allowed to breath or it will snap under sever loads.The flex must be across the entire structure and not confined to one area. this is an engineering night mare.
Not to offend anyone. I have seen many videos like this however when the rigs get old people kind of write it off.
The repair looks very solid!
This is a combination of failure from LCI and DRV. LCI may build the frame, but they build it to the spec that DRV supplies. For all we know DRV asked for a frame that weighed a certain amount with certain materials that was capable of so much load, but then exceeded that load in the name of saving a dollar and maximizing profit. This is usually what happens. See it on travel trailers all the time. The other problem is there is zero oversight in the RV industry.
You’re putting your name on the product, the welds from LCI suck. My own trailer had outriggers fully welded and some with literal tacks, and forgotten to be welded. Jayco and final inspection missed it, but shoot it went through LCI final inspection and jayco and both missed it.
I never understand why some people want to absolve Lippert of making crap frames by saying someone else designed them. If there were any expectation that someone would be held responsible like literally every other industry then the company that made the foundation of a 12,000lb thing that will be moving at 70mph on a highway attached to a family of four would know what they were building rather than just slapping together something drawn on a cocktail napkin.
When my dad bought a new trailer he had all kinds of problems with it including the septic tank falling out while he's going down the highway he just kept driving he wasn't going to get a fine for a septic dumping of course he traded in right off the bat it was brand new..... More and more now I'm seeing why these fancy trailers are parked
We HAD a 2007 Keystone Everest 364Q, loved the trailer, frame broke behind the axles in 2012. Wife was vacuuming and wanted to know how come she could see daylight at the back wall? Rv trailer frames need to be built much better, heavier. Some engineer has to know how to build a frame, if not check with horse trailer manufactures. 🦅😎🇺🇸
You can imagine the leverage from the pin to the inside.The frame is made of thin material that flexes too much.Eventually it will crack. They are mostly concerned of weight not strenght when they make these frames.
Wow...I'm seeing more and more lippert frames breaking on other brand rv's. I hope Lippert takes responsibility for faulty workmanship and materials.
Lippert only builds what the manufacturers spec, but Lippert should be able to recognize, and advise the manufacturer when they spec framework that is sub standard. It’s the customer who gets to deal with the problem after the sale. We have friends, whose Montana fifth wheel cracked in the same places. It caused a complete failure on a trip. They ended up scrapping the trailer.
I had a broken frame and it took them 4 years to fix it!!
Needs a bolted on gusset plate from the factory, then additional welding could be added from the plate to the tube.
There are so many Lippert broken frames out there, i am surprised a class action lawsuit has been started yet. Everyone should band together and start one.
You would think after years of building frames lippert could build a frame that would not break. My fifth wheel frame was torn like paper by the axles
I assume the more years that pass, the more cost cutting the manufacturer will do. Then when someone dies and there's an outcry, they'll fix their process and the cycle will repeat.
We have a 2006 carriage c force frame that does the same, so for almost 20 years they don't build different
If you notice, the crack started right below the weld at the gusset and traveled backwards.
(1) this is the spot where the frame stresses the most, up and down forces
(2) my thoughts, when initially welded, the welder was running the wire to hot. ( production, go fast )
Which causes the metal to crystallize and remove its ability to flex.
The more movements up and down slowly made the crack grow.
This was a lesson we learned from the Northridge earthquake and all the welds that cracked in high rise buildings. So many welds had to be replaced and new connections introduced that allowed the buildings to flex instead of being rigid and cracking.
No I disagree with it being the weld, that brace created a stress riser at that point and was not properly engineered for the forces it would see.
@@max7143 when two pieces of A-36 steel are welded together the heat can only go up X to not crystallize ( harden the steel ) welded properly the steel should remain ductile and able to flex. (To a certain degree )
Bad roads, etc can also make a good weld crack,
Lippert used low grade recycled high carbon Chinese steel that is brittle and shears. My Forest River sheared the 2x6 tubing about 4" from the pinbox on a main header. Welds had nothing to do with it.
@@Itsa_Mea Hmmm
Recycled ?
All old steel is melted down into ingots.
All compositions are analyzed, necessary alloys are added to the mix to create the proper mixture for which type of steel is produced.
All I beams and tubes are made to grade A36 standards and a mill certification must accompany all product from that batch.
Do you have the documentation showing where the steel came from ? ( most of it comes from Canada )
FYI
Any steel that has a high carbon content is called rebar.
@@vincebotkin1960 Chinese do not always do this. Not all steel is the same.
I’m just curious at whose cost was the repairs made?
does a class A RV suffer from the same issues? Thanks, Paulie
How many batteries do they have in that front compartment. May be overloaded there.
The way the frame was broke was EXTREMELY SERIOUS. The accident that could have resulted, while at vehicle speeds, could have caused many deaths. All owners of this brand need to inspect.
Makes me never want to travel on the freeway again. Glad I'm retired now and happy staying at home, did a lot of traveling when I was younger and got it out of my system.
My 2016 Jayco has multiple cracks in the Lippert frame. And it keeps breaking spring hangers.
What years were these frames being used that were bad?
Wow, Lippert should do it themselves or pay to take it all apart repair the underbuilt frame and put it back together, I can't believe they are not. Welding the frame is the easy part, but probably no stronger than it was originally unless they are adding gussets.
How old was the RV and is there anything that could of caused the failure?
They went cheap with the initial design and it looks like it will cost them in the long run. And i wouldn't be so sure the reinforcement won't crack either as it still looks like a poor transition, and might crack thru the 45degree tube instead of the vertical. It looks like they made the vertical so strong that all that flex will transfer to the weakest link(45 degree tube right where the big sleeve welds too it). I also agree with others that you should be looking at other parts of the structure to make sure more cracks aren't starting. Best of luck.
I can relate, every UTV is mass produced as cheaply as they can make them. Even in Canada. That's why the after market parts industry is flourishing. Every UTV owner knows with bad geometry, if you replaces weak parts, some come with plastic parts, you are just transferring that weakness down the line to some where else.in the joints or frame, or to other parts that will now break.
Did kyle unhook all the batteries while he welded the frame?
My Lippert Frame broke too. Brand new Keystone Cougar 5th wheel
what year was yours?
mine 2021 and I have the same issue, forest river is supposed to fix it. They have been very responsive so far
update i know this is old , they fixed my frame on warranty its been about a year ish.. all good
It's not Lippert's fault. They built the frame DRV asked them to build. The RV manufacturers want lighter frames.
4:30 My Luxe, the same gusset, it's twice as thick and welded, no screws. Well not the same gusset but the frame for that area is way more robust, all welded and the frame tube is filled with wood. Whew, because I almost bought a DRV...
Lippert needs to be looking at a class action!
Completely unacceptable. A class action lawsuit is needed to change the behavior of the industry. The question:
1. was the frame built to spec by the RV manufacturer? If so, sue them.
2. If the frame is out of spec, then go after Lippert and the manufacturer.
This does not happen in the auto industry.
Also, contact your congress person. Legislation to protect consumers is needed.
This is an ongoing issue with larger units. Keep in mind this is not the frame builders fault. They are building these frames to the manufacturer specs. They are not specing these frames out strong enough to handle the weight of these large rigs. Any RV over 30ft is prone for this. They try to give it a nice name of "Flex frame". The manufacturer could easily fix this issue by using thicker metal and better welding with plating when they first build these units. The manufacturer cheap it up to save money. These people were very lucky. Yet I bet is you go to brand new one they are being built with the same old specs. Unfortunately I don't think the manufacturer will change there specs till someone dies and they have a massif law suit on there hands. This is a well known issue by the manufacturer. The price of these units keep going up in price, yet they are putting out junk. Also this is still going on with newer units, with some manufacturer.
my 2021 forest river columbus river ranch is doing the same thing !
You know I live in an old school bus and travel the country and I've seen so many fifth wheels that have been an accident so now I'm understanding why I've seen some just like that brand new in pieces along the f****** highway...... I just watched the video not long ago just a few days ago where these people got pulled over in Kentucky their hitch was failing they were going to get it fixed but I'm telling you there was another fifth wheel it was all broken up in the f****** ditch they were they were using backhoes and everything to clean it up and this was by Kentucky now I'm understanding more and more videos I'm seeing of these things failing thank you for providing the information of these piss poor quality steel being used
That's why I'll stick with a Northwood frame. Arctic Fox or Outdoors RV.
That's why I'll stick with staying happily retired at home
What options do you have if your RV is out of warranty?
Are there mechanics that can make frame repairs at a reasonable cost?
They are making the repairs for out of warranty breaks as well.
I had cracks in my 2014 Raptor 381 frame as well as the 3” plates that support the side walls.. found out about it in July 2021 when my rv was in the shop for water leaks in the bedroom. Coach Specialists in Mansfield Tx told me about it and I called Keystone and then Lippert. Keystone said they had no liability, and Lippert said they could not even look at it until January 2022.. and Coach Specialists told me they would not let me leave it there for the frame work after they completed their repairs in December..and my truck was in the shop also, so had no way to move my trailer. Coach Specialists charged me $125 to tow trailer about 5 miles to an rv park. I then had to go to work and truck was still in shop, so had to pay $800 to have someone tow trailer to Vicksburg MS for me. Went to two more jobs before I ended up in Indiana, and found an Amish man that specialized in trailer repair, and he was not only able to fix the broken welds and strengthen the frame, but take it apart and put it back together and do it for less money than Lippert wanted to just weld the frame. I hope to never have to buy another rv with a Lippert frame or parts again.. and still own this same piece of junk Raptor because I owe too much on it.
seems like a lot of folks here could use that Indiana mans contact info.