We didn't expect THIS! Payload Problem Ford F350 and 5th Wheel RV (and how to avoid it)
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- Опубліковано 5 бер 2024
- How to weigh your truck and RV, what all the numbers mean, and why you might not be able to tow as much as you think with a 1 ton or 3/4 ton truck.
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As a professional truck driver, I have actually helped many RVs scale out correctly. The number one biggest problem I see is that for some reason people like to put their tires directly on the yellow lines instead of in the Box. The second biggest issue I see is that they'll put two axles in the same box like both pickup axles or rear drive pickup and trailer. The third biggest issue I see is that they don't weigh the truck aka the tractor by itself without the trailer
agreed.....
That’s good to know, I am new to RVing and did think that lines meant “put tires here” LOL 😅
@Captain-Awesome you would be surprised, most RV's actually do make this mistake. CAT scales comprise of 3 smaller scales and the lines seperate the actual platforms. You can actually get out, look down, and see the 2 inch gap or so between the platforms so you really don't want to be between them.
It is designed for semi trucks so smaller RV's still might not be big enough to scale correctly. That can be fixed with a re weigh, re positioning on the re weigh, and alittle math.
@@MrtrenchTrucker Thank you sir!!
They don't mean put the tires here, they mean put the tires in between.@@Captain-Awesome
We bought a new travel trailer last year when we paid off our 1/2 ton pup, everyone there and even the factory said our truck would tow it just fine. The trailer weight is only 5500 and our towing capacity was 10500 but the tongue weight is 840 ( Front kitchen and slide) After we had a couple scares towing it we took it to the scales and ended up we were way over on our payload and rear axle rating. Now I have a truck payment on a new 3/4 ton. Never trust the sales person that says your truck is enough for your new trailer !
If it's something that the sales rep promises, always get it in writing. If there's a problem with something, there's a warranty you can use
Weight distribution hitch?
I had a custom ordered 89 Grand Marquis with a 6,000 pound trailer rating. With load equalizing, tongue weight was limited at 750 lbs. The combined weight rating was 12,500 pounds.
@@heavenleigh111 I bet not, in fact that hitch weight probably overloads the hitch withou WD
Did the same trailer salesman, sell you your new truck also?
I am in a Ram truck forum, you would not believe what people pull with a 1500 series truck, i do believe that at least 90% of the RV's on the road are over weight.
We sure do see a lot of big RV's and small trucks! 🫣
Totally agree
I think so too
Agreed. This was a hard lesson for us to learn. Payload matters; pickup trucks run out of payload long before they run out of tow capacity. The lighter half-ton trucks typically come with P-Metric radial tires. These are wholly unsuitable for towing trailers over 20' length (ask me how I know! 😉). The solution is to swap out those city tires for LT (Light Truck) tires. We did that, and the towing dynamics and experience changed immediately! Much more stable, and we didn't get tossed all over the highway every time a semi passed us. Even in windy weather we were much more stable towing. We were right at the limit of our payload, and this one change made a significant difference. We now use a 3/4-ton for towing our 25-ft travel trailer. Much better still!
Completely believe it. There is a belief system on some forums that if you can start and stop and it “feels good” with “no problems for years”, you are good to go. Lots of see no evil, feel no evil, mindset among RV community.
Never ceases to amaze how many tow avd drive a vehicle in general that are basically clueless or willfully endanger others because they don't care.
Anyone else think it’s funny Chris is promoting her fitness business after a video of the rig being overweight ? 🤪😂❤️
Should have been the commercial half-way through.
Thats actually really funny! 😆 We didn't put that together till now! 🤣
😂
Thank you for sharing your numbers, we have a Dually GMC and 41' 5th wheel.
We understand the importance of weight rating. Many people don't.
Retired truck driver here. 😎
Right on! Yes, it amazing how quickly a SRW truck can get overloaded!
Don't forget about the tires! On the sidewall of each tire is the max load at the highest pressure rating. On my rig I was 300lbs under the rear axel max BUT only 100 lbs under the tire maxx. Tire manufacturers vary even with the same " ply" rating. Thanks for your wonderful clear explanation.
Great point! I was going to chime in about the tires as well. Generally the Gross Axle Weight Rating is limited by the tires, not the axle itself. The axles are shared sometimes shared between dually and SRW 3500/350 and are again limited by the tires.
You load evenly, run tires at max. pressure. You never see a truck driver adding or taking out air from his tires.
Yes, very true! I briefly mentioned tires, but I didn't go into detail on ours. Ironically, the Tremor comes with Goodyear duratracs that have 4,000 per tire. The standard F350 is 3750 per tire.
Also remember that many tires have speed ratings as well. Some of those are in the 63-67 mph range. If you are towing in western states with the 80mph speed limits, the real limit is what is on your tires. Often going slower ends up being faster, because you are not replacing tires. This becomes more vital the closer you get to the tire's limits.
So I haul a truck camper. It’s all about the Payload. It took me a changing trucks once but I learned my lesson. I run a dually now and I will always have one. The positives outweigh the negatives.
at least you learnt, most dont and wonder why they have problems, i see this with boats especially at ramps where they have a sss box car pulling a fair sized boat.
Just FYI its not all about the payload. You can still be under payload but over on your axle rating.
Copy that. I’m still 2700 under that.
We have friends who have been traveling since 1990. At one point they had moved up to a 5th wheel 2 axle trailer smaller than yours which was pulled by a Chevy pickup. Shortly after putting this combination on the road they had a tire blowout on one tire on the trailer while cruising at speed on a four lane freeway doing 60 mph. There was a significant control issue immediately following the blowout which did not lead to driving off the road or forced lane crossing, either of which could have bee fatal. It was a very harrowing experience though. When they were able to get to the nearest RV repair facility to effect repairs on the damage to the trailer, one of the senior staff members had a serious conversation about puling a 5th wheel trailer with a pickup truck like theirs that did not have dual rear wheels. He pointed out that had the blowout occurred on either of the rear tires of their tow vehicle, they most likely would have lost control immediately with very serious injuries or fatalities as a result. Not to mention the destruction of one or both vehicles. After a long discussion and other consultations with other sources they made a very well informed decision to trade in their nearly new truck on a truck with duel tires for many more years of safe traveling. I am very surprised you did not even mention this at all.
Having the trailer brake level adjusted properly will make a huge difference under those circumstances!
I’ve seen several videos on the GVWR and tow capacity topic, and I was pretty sure I had a handle on it. But Aaron I want to thank you for this video. This was by far the clearest and most helpful breakdown I’ve seen. Nicely done. 👍
Totally agree!
Hear, hear!
Well thank you! Appreciate you watching! 😊
That’s the genius of the weight distributing hitch on a travel trailer setup. Moves a few hundred pounds from the rear axle to the front axle.
Good informative video! We went through the exact same issue. The old truck was a F250 Gas Tremor with 2700lb payload and a Grand Design 2930RL with 2100lb dry pin weight.
With just me in the truck, full fuel tank, 200lbs of tools, hitch and your usual stuff in the trailer, cloths, bathroom stuff, no water in tanks, no washer/dryer, some food, 300lb solar system, put us 1700lb over our payload rating!!! Total surprise from the "wise" guidance on the RV forums, "everything is fine" attitude.
Even with the new SRW 2023+ Super Duty's and their 7000lb rear GWAR, 4000lb payload numbers will not support this 35ft RV. We were stuck buying a dually. General rule of thumb seems to be, if you are towing a fifth wheel with a DRY 2000lb+ pin weight, you're most likely in dually territory. FYI, F350 dually rear axle rating is 9900lbs.
Aaron I am sure you are enjoying the dually while towing but not so much when not. We switched over to a dually because my F-350 SRW was all but maxed out with our fifth wheel. After having taken the fifth wheel on several trips in the last year with the dually, I much prefer the towing dynamics of the dually over the SRW. Good luck and happy camping……
We tow our 30' Airstream with a dually and I often wondered if we got too much truck. But after traveling with the setup, we're finding it works well and we feel safe with it's towing stability and most important, the ability to stop quickly and safely. BTW, great explanations on all points.
I haul horses for my daughter to show. I have always had a dually, even when I only had a 4 horse trailer. We have traveled more than 24 hours at a time to get to a show. I've always felt safe and never had a flat on the truck. Plenty on the trailer.
To big of a truck isn't a issue people think it is because they think o I'd I drop to a small truck I'll save fuel witch when towing isn't true
gordonmedley YOU can NEVER Have too much truck !!! For years I had a 97 F series Super Duty (F450) 7.3 Powerstroke diesel, It had an 11 ft flatbed for the 10 ft camper and we pulled a 2 horse Logan trailer, truck GCWR was 24500 Loaded it weighed in at 19,000 so had plenty of leway and never had a problem and we did a lot of mountain work, Had lots of crazy comments "Think you got enough truck ???" NOPE !!!! Just right !!!
Aaron I really appreciate how you explain things - the facts are always linear, at a good pace (not too fast or too slow,) and the information is clear and concise. Thank you 😊
Thanks Carman! Appreciate that! 😊
But you did not identify any particular problem or solution. Let me explain. You are only 670lb over weight on your trucks rear axle, and you are 4,420lb under the GCWR weight of 30,000lb. So, since you did not let me see the sticker on the side of your 5th wheel trailer I can't tell you for sure what the solution is but I can tell you a possible solution would be to move stuff in your trailer from the hitch towards the rear bumper. If your water tanks are in the rear of the trailer, you can keep them full. Think of your trailer as a teeter totter. This solution only works if you are under GVWR on your trailer. Also in your video at 3:58 you refer to GVWR as "Everything!" Although I know what you meant some people might confuse GVWR with GCWR, GCWR is a better description of "Everything" as in includes the maximum truck and trailer combined weight. I hope you receive this information well as I am trying to help you. Just so you know a little bit of my background. I have driven on every mile of interstate in the United States and most of Canada well over a million mile club I have driven all kinds of crazy stuff. Once I drove a 45' Prevost coach towing a jeep towing a trailer, that was fun. Here is a suggestion for a video: talk about weight distribution hitches and why you should never use them. The reason why is that the manufacturers of weight distribution hitches don't do any research into how much extra tongue weight they put on a ball coupler. When you use a weight distribution hitch it puts a very high load pushing down on the ball coupler that is attached to the ball if you have a heavy tongue weight trailer and then add a weight distribution hitch you could be way exceeding the capacity of the ball coupler and not even know it. I had this conversation with one of the manufacturers and ask them for the engineering specifications to give me that weight, when they said they didn't have it I threw away the weight distribution hitch and have never used one since. I just make sure my trailers are loaded correctly. @@IreneIronTravels
Glad to see this video. Way too many people thinking their loaded up Platinum or Limited trim level trucks can tow the maximum advertised weights they show on the commercials and advertisements. In reality you're looking at a XL regular cab with an 8 ft box 2WD to get those numbers, which nobody is buying. I'd be willing to bet that a large majority of people towing these massive 5th wheels with their high trim level crew cabs are way, way over their payload and GVWR.
Yep higher the trim level the lower the towing capacity and payload capacity.
Yup. I see people going by the sticker on their hitch and not the mfg tables based on their trim and wheelbase.
Exactly, each manufacturer has a towing guide pdf with every cab/bed/powertrain/drivetrain/gearing configuration. People don't realize those numbers are for the ABSOLUTE most BASIC truck you can get with not a SINGLE option other than any listed as required. What's on there is still your trucks Gross Combined, regardless of trim, but payload will limit you(idc what any of these smarties say about "oh it doesn't matter, the axles are rated for it!" yeah, it doesn't matter, until it does matter).
My 2020 LTZ 3500 is rated for 31500 per sticker on the door from GM so nice that they put that there 😊
The real discrepancy is that J2807 tow ratings are based on 15% pin weight for goosenecks, and only 400 pounds of people + gear in the cab. (In this scenario, J2807 requires the TV to be within GVWR at the stated tow rating. So it really has nothing to do with options.) RVers don't travel that way. Higher pin weight percentages and more gear in the truck is why payload capacity isn't easy to hit for many (but not all) trucks before hitting other metrics.
Manufacturers swayed J2807 this way because it's a marketing tool, and bigger numbers make for better marketing.
All the 5th wheel hitches I have had were mounted 2” in front of the rear axle centerline so that a small part of the trailer king pin weight was transferred to the front axle. EMPTY WEIGHT of a truck includes a full tank of fuel also.
I agree, that couple of inches transfers a small amount of the 5th wheel to the trucks front axle. If you are lucky enough to have a sliding 5th wheel hitch you can finesse how much weight you put on the trucks front axle to obtain a "solid feel" when towing. Always double check though because adding any more weight to the front of the towed 5th wheel will add a little to the trucks front axle. Stay alert, stay safe and happy trails! (Retired CDL driver and accredited community college instructor)
Excellent video, I think this is the first one I’ve seen covering this topic that was clear, didn’t go to far off topic and stated the information in a way inexperienced people could understand. We own a trucking company specializing in heavy haul so just by experience I’ve always watched for peoples setups and see a ton of them that are clearly overloaded. Another thing often overlooked is some states require special drivers license endorsements. Nevada for example requires either a class J endorsement or class A CDL (or non commercial) for anything being towed that weighs over 10k pounds.
Awesome job providing the basics on understanding how your rig's weight works in relationship with the combined truck and 5th wheel weights. "Yes" this issue is discussed on every form of social media. Your explanations may cause several viewers to hop on the scales and see for themselves. F.Y.I. = I weigh our setup EVERY-TIME we roll out! Sadly, many are going to find out that their RV dealership who told them that their truck was rated to pull that trailer they are preparing to buy or just bought; are going to find they are over their max weights. Especially the so-called "Half Ton" 5th wheel trailers being pulled by a "1500 or 150" half ton truck. Like a vast majority that we see on the road on a regular basis. ... Great job on the video!
Sir, you are spot on, when I had my 1 ton Chevy Duramax Long bed towing a 2023 North Point 310RLTS I was about 150lbs from maxing out my RAWR, I had a 7250lbs and was 150lbs left to go. My GVWR was 12,300lbs for my long bed, I was good on the other weight rating, but I didn't like the fact that I had only 150lbs left so I just move up to a 1 ton dually and I'm glad I did because we might be moving up a little in getting another 5th wheel later but for now I like that specs on our setup. This was a helpful video for me and I'm sure for other also, and yes you are so right I have seen a lot of 3/4 truck towing what seem like over weight 5th wheel towing cross-country a few times you see a lot as you know.
This is a very important topic! We were shocked when we went down this confusing learning curve. Keep up the good job you're sharing with all of us. The trailer people just want to sell trailers and the truck people do the same.
One of the best videos I have watched about that subject 👍
I have read too much nonsense on many forums about the maximum towing rating of trucks only that I decided to share your video rather than trying to re-explain the same thing over and over again.
Cheers
Phil
Well thank you! Appreciate that!
Great video and information! Another thing to consider is if you are ever in an accident and you are overweight, you will have a lot more headaches with insurance and liability.
Another top notch video from you guys! I can't wait to see how you address this issue in your next video.
I have a 25' Airstream Globetrotter that I used to tow with an Infinity QX80 (until I visited a CAT scale). While we were officially under the advertised "Towing Capacity" of the SUV, we couldn't put anything inside without going over the GVWR. We upgraded to a RAM 2500 with 6.4 HEMI. The nearly 3,000 lb payload of the truck can easily handle anything we put in the bed, plus the 1,000 lb tongue wt. My loaded tongue wt is about 150 lbs higher than factory specs because I have a 900 Ah lithium bank and Victron Multiplus II (I learned how to do this install in part from your videos). I recently did an experiment to determine the effect of using a weight distribution hitch vs leveling the truck with air suspension. I'd be happy to send you my numbers which would be applicable to folks with 3/4 ton trucks and bumper pull setup.
Keep up the great work!
The best description of this process I’ve seen. Thank you for taking the time. I’ve used a cat scale to prove I was not overloaded when I had to have my 5th wheel axles bent back into alignment. I was okay, but just barely. But my RV is a 2004 model that just needed persuaded back into alignment. Tires wearing even now.
I bet that it was a Thor & they didn't stand by their (no)warranty.
@@ronstrong9560 it’s a Keystone, but it’s a 2004. Warranty ran out 18 years ago.
Thanks for video I’m new to rv life just ordered a new bumper pull camper and bought a bigger truck to pull it with people thought I was crazy adding up the weights of my kids car seats and my wife and I to make sure I had enough truck for us plus gear this video to me proves I’m not so crazy
Thank you! This is just what I needed. I wanted a better understanding of RV weight to tow vehicle and your video explains it well. You have gotten me over the fear of using truck scales. I didn't know there was a scale app before seeing this. Your work to make this video is much appreciated! 👍
We’ve been down this road as well. There are a lot of terms and what they represent to learn when planning to tow a rig. Unfortunately there are a lot of keyboard experts that spread bad information. Your video was well done. Our first truck purchase was an F250 CCLB with the 6.7 L diesel engine. The “truck expert” at the dealership assured us it would handle the fifthwheel we were looking at. (Yes we gave home all the numbers). The. RV salesman agreed that the F250 would be just what we needed. So we bought the truck. Thankfully we learned more about what all the numbers meant before we bought the fifth wheel too. Our payload of only 1926# would not have been enough for the rig we were looking at. We ended up buying a tt instead, due to the low payload.
A few years later we bought a new 2023 F350 CCLB with the 7.3 L gas motor and 4.30 gears. I spec’d the truck out for maximum payload and towing capability.
GAWR Front axle 5990#
GAWR Rear axle 7230#
GVWR 11,900#
Payload. 4631#
Fifthwheel towing
Max Pin Wt. 3195#
Max Trailer rating 21,300#
These numbers are specific to my truck vin, directly from ford.
If only the original “truck expert” had suggested the right truck for what we wanted to do, it would have saved us time, money and lots of angst. Since I wasn’t going to make that mistake twice, I spent a lot of time researching each rating. So you aren’t alone in this…
Safe travels
How has the experience been going from diesel to gas? Just guessing here, but I would think you went from higher torque and lower trailer weight, to a combo with less torque and more tailer weight. Do you tow at higher elevations or through mountains?
@@iwwqytv yes, you are correct. The F250 with the 6.7 L diesel had a lot of torque but minimal payload. Our 2023 F350 with the 7.3 L gas motor and 4.30 gears has a lot of torque too, just not as much as the diesel. Yes the diesel is better but the gas motor does the job nicely. We towed a 8100# tt over the Rockies a couple of months ago. It handled it just fine. We just picked up our new Rockwood R371RK fifthwheel yesterday. It’s currently at just over 11,000# empty. It towed just fine driving from Elkhart IN to Milwaukee WI. No big hills but I’m not worried. It was still zippy on the highway and off the line. We are headed out west next week. I will know more then but I really don’t see a need. The only thing I miss is getting fuel at truck stops with my tsd card. It let me use truck lanes with high volume pumps. It filled my 48 gal tank really quick and the lanes were easy to navigate with the truck and trailer. I do miss that but otherwise I am happy with my truck trailer combo. It’s all about what you are pulling and what your expectations are.
I wasn't aware that Ford still offered the V-10 gas motor in F350's.
As far as missing the commercial vehicle pump use, there are *some* truck stops and highway service plazas that have gasoline available in the truck areas. Certainly much more comfortably accessible for people towing big trailers. 👍
@@125AXer the 7.3 L is a large V8 gas motor. It is available in F250’s and
F350’s
@@pathoppe Well, I'll be darned, I haven't been paying attention for a while, it seems. Thanks for the info.
As an oilfield truck driver I was routinely overweight at least 5 k 😊
The more oil I moved the more $ I made!
Great job explaining how to get your axles weight right, being a retired truck driver, I've seen alot of over weight or not "balanced weight" accidents, trucks and rvs, most often people don't check anything out and just hook up and go, in most states, DOT will give you a big fine on top of clean up and repair damages you caused on the highway and hopefully you didn't kill anyone, so 10 to 12 dollars and 30 minutes, could help you travel safely...Thanks, can't to see you're next video, hopefully others are sharing this one and you're next.
You learned the hard way that the Tremor trim was not intended to be a towing machine. This is why I ordered a CCLB Lariat, maximum GAWR/GVWR SRW option.
This is a great topic. Thank you so much for explaining it so clearly.
I had a good understanding of all these weights prior to your video, but you did a great job of explaining. Hopefully a lot of people are learning from this.
One big thing to remember is that all liquids count -- gas, diesel, propane, fresh water, gray water, black water etc. Thanks - this video was full of great info.
Yes! 😊👍
DEF too!
Count as what?
The weight of extra items need taken into consideration. If you have 2, 40 lb propane bottles make sure they are full. Same with water. If you are boondocking and fill your water tank have it full when you weigh. I was told weigh full of fresh water and weigh, drop the water and weigh again so I know how 50 gallons of water affects all the axle weights. Basically load the thing up to the heaviest it will be. If you are over then figure out what you need to reduce. The RV dealers that say do not worry they don't stop RVs are bullshit artists. They can stop you any where and if you're overweight you are screwed. Need a video of what happens when you are overweight and idea of what the fines are. USA is broke and checking RV weight is low hanging fruit for highway funds!!!
Yep that’s why truckers get weighed before and after fueling. If dot limit is 80k pounds and the total weight before fuel is 79500 you can get 450-475 pounds of fuel.
Thank you for being a responsible tower and taking the tome to help people who may not know to understand
Super helpful, Aaron. I will be coming back to this for ongoing reference!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks!
Great Numbers, and information that RV people should know. I recently went to the Seattle and Tacoma RV shows and had quite a few salesman try to sell me fifth wheels that were way over what my truck can handle (2500) all they want is to be able to sell something. They don’t care if you can safely pull it or not.
100% true! When we were looking for a class c, I focused on the OCCC and was stunned When the salesman said he didn't know what the OCCCwas the salesman and claimed to be in the business for years. What a liar. I left Camping World and will never buy any RV from them. Oh, We did buy a Winnebago View had an independent dealership and happy with it ...Just have to watch the weight.
@@earlhunt2815 do the research on your own and you will know more than the salesman.
No matter what they are selling all salespeople make their living telling lies. Head into the service dept and see if they can talk to you about what you are looking at can do.
A local reputable RV dealer wouldn't sell a trailer to a buyer who came in with a 1/2 ton pickup to tow it. The buyer was not willing to accept the fact that his pickup wasn't adequate for the tongue weight. They told him that they would not send him out with their trailer attached to the pickup he had. They certainly earned my respect.
Most of them don't have a clue also trailer manufacturers have been pushing "half ton towable"
Thank you! Great video. The scales are intimating.
Great video - Valuable information - Thank you!
I've watched quite a few of these RV weight type videos, and I think you knocked it out of the park. You explained the numbers as simply as possible. Much appreciated.
I’m a professional truck driver and full time RV’er. I have a one ton duality that’s been used for slide in camper, bumper pull and fifth wheel. I have a stack of scale tickets in my truck right now documenting past and present vehicle weights. I love doing it. Any change in configuration is celebrated with another trip to the scale. I can show you anal attention to detail AND flagrant stupidity (yeah, despite doing it for a living) The easiest rating to overlook and violate is tire rating. Fine, you made yourself aware of your units GVW ratings and stand ahead of the majority of people out there, but can the rubber beneath it stand the load? and are your tires properly inflated? The second easiest to overlook is hitch ratings. Oh how we collectively beat up our hitches. Glad this guy focused on weight distribution on tow vehicle. If too much of the weight is on the drive axle, or leveraged off the steer axle (bumper pull I’m looking at you)…surprise! Cannot steer, especially in wet or freezing conditions.
A lot of good comments. When buying don't trust any of the Sales folks at the trailer lots. LOL I've been RV'er pulling, hauling etc since I was 16 and now 72. Was a Program Design Engineer for one of big 3, we have to know the DOT spec,s. they are there for a reason. Also, Test Engineer for Army on 10-ton and above heavy trucks. ( University of Michigan Engineering has a class, "Design for Trucking" ) It was a great class and you get to very loads in different types of Trailers, as well as the tractor, weight, Balance, center of Gravity, and placement. Just commenting look around there are probably other places that do it as well as any local or State Changes in towing. The axle to axle, tires, the center of Gravity, etc and balanced load are very important. So, I am used to weights and assuring one axle is not overloaded to the other axles. Good job, I also weigh my vehicles as you would be surprised what you accumulate LOL. I have years ago been through some of the same comments I see below. Been told I had enough truck well lucky for me some of my family were truckers and I listened and learned way back from them. Can't say enough more time should be spent doing what was done here and getting folks to everytime they hook up loads change, tires, etc. Everytime I get out at a rest area or fuel I walk around mine to see what I may not feel or notice.... Job and Information well done on this video
I'm amazed at the people I meet that have never did this. We have basically the same set you have but our 5th wheel is only 30 feet. We travel pretty light and when we got out new camper, we purged a lot of stuff we never used. I took ours to the scale when we first got it and made sure it was fully loaded. We are way under our GVW non all axles and hitch. This was very good information and I hope others watch it.
Excellent video Aaron, such important information that many need to pay attention to. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "I know my truck and what it can do. It tows just fine, no problems." That generally means I don't need no stinkin Cat Scales.
So this is something that we do every time we travel. We always make sure we’re not overweight on either the truck axles or the trailer axles. Since I have a single rear wheel 3500 I also had to make sure that the tires would add up to whatever weight rating had on the rear axles. if you’re looking for the highest rated tires, they are the Toyo AT3 LT 295, 6520. each tire has a weight rating of 4080 pounds this is the highest rated tire. I can find out of every brand tire.
Great video! I was commercial truck for 17 years prior to this. I have approximately 1.5 million safe miles my under my belt and I like to think that I have enough valid insight and experience to chime in here.
I did some hauling with my 07 F350 SRW with a (modified for improved towing) 6.0 Powerstroke that was quite heavy on two occasions around 7-8 years ago. I remember scaling about 200-ish lbs heavy on the rear axle of my ford with a 12,000lb (dry/empty) tri axle dually gooseneck trailer (that's a mouth full). My loaded weight was 34,700lbs and some change. I made two loaded 1500 mile trips and two 1500 mile trips with the trailer unloaded. My truck handled it just fine during that window but there was definitely noticeable wear on it. Being a single rear wheel truck, I ended up using most of the available tire life on relatively new E load rated tires. While I was impressed with the power my truck had, it was clear that I was pushing things. Today's diesel trucks are far more powerful and, for that reason, I feel that the newer diesels can give some people false confidence and get them into trouble.
After its all said and done, your rig needs to do more than pull your trailer. That is what makes the info in this video so important. You NEED to be able to stop, control your load going downhill (the importance of this cannot be overstated) turn safely, fit in to places and there isn't always a level place to park. Even though I was only marginally over on my drive axle and well under the load capacity of my trailer, I was well over my max towing capacity. The heavier you make it, the more things that can wrong and you increase the likelihood that bad things can occur. I got away with it and no longer haul anything.
Exactly, most of my 1/2 ton friends brag how their truck is capable of towing. But they put their fingers in their ears when I ask how it's going to handle if they get hit, have to stop, or have a blowout.
@@tpaul340women never listen. I’m assuming they are women because they have 1/2 ton trucks. Wait I’m wrong, it’s 2024, the gals drive the one tons, the boys drive the console shifter eco boosts.
How you spec your trailer and how you pack it out makes all the difference. If you have a front kitchen, you are starting out with a huge disadvantage when you play this game. To move weight off of the rear axle of your truck, simply put the weight over or behind the trailer axles. Just don’t exceed the axle/tire rating of the trailer. Stow as much of your loose stuff there and it will help you out tremendously.
Very good video!!! Accurate information!
Great video. Important stuff.
so helpful! much needed information explained so clearly!
Glad it was helpful!
Very informative. I knew enough to say you are correct, but I learned a thing or 2 as well.
Very good overview of this topic. I have my CDL, and thus weight and weight distribution is always on my mind when towing. Every time I change truck or trailer it is straight to the CAT scale to be sure everything is loaded and set up properly. We currently tow a bumper pull with a 1/2 ton truck, but I know exactly where my weight is, and it all fits within the truck and trailer specs, and with the hitch properly set up it tows extremely well. thanks for the review, and as always, safe travels...
Clear and concise well done Aaron
Good video and something all RV'ers should know. We've been using the Cat Scale App for years.
30 years ago, I was a heavy duty mechanic. When I saw the clip of you pulling the RV, I noticed your front end was a little high. To me, that suggested you were heavier than desired. I called that, "front end dancing."
💯 I worked at ups. They got a batch of new single axle ch 612 macks tractors in the late 90s early 2000s. The all did the front end dancing. They went thru tires like crazy. The tires would get choppy and slap the highway wobble at highways speeds
11:40 You've got your arrow pointed at the 2-wheel drive (4x2) column. The correct number for your short-bed 4x4 Tremor is one column to the right of that and shows 21,900 for Tremor (footnote 6). That said, I realize that the other numbers like GVWR and GAWR are where the problem is.
Yes, thank you! I missed that on the small print! 🤣 21,900👍
Actually you're limited to 19K based on the 5th wheel hitch. Footnote #4 That 21,900 is for goose neck. @@IreneIronTravels
So, it appears you were over weight, did you trade in on a dually? We had srw too and traded it. I feel much safer with the dually and better ride
So in TX, your 1ton truck is limited registration wise to 10,000lb GVWR, or was the case several years ago. I had a friend who was ticketed for being overweight by Tx DPS. He was actually ticketed twice from what he was telling me. The trooper gave him one then the state sent him one. He was driving a 1 ton DRW towing a trailer with 2 Jeeps. Myself I weighed my combination 16,500 lbs Excursion 7.3, trailer & Jeep
My father was a mechanic for a large construction company and was up on the dot regulations for there trucks he has always talked about how no one ever looks at there tire load range so nice job mentioning that
Thank you for sharing this great information..
If you get a slider 5th wheel hitch or set up to move it forward or back you can distribute the weight in your truck and make your weights as we say axle out properly. I build all my trucks with more than one hitch location. So I can make things legal.
Nope. The 3600 pounds of hitch weight is still 3600 pounds added to the truck, so it is still over GVWR, regardless of the hitch position. The rear axle load could be reduced by sliding the hitch forward, but GVWR will still be exceeded, and front GAWR might be exceeded as well.
Great explanation of what all those numbers mean. I see so many people overloading their rigs.
Great video with great information!
Also a trick to consider if you want to know hitch weight, when doing your second weigh, don’t drop the trailer in a parking spot, drop it on the rear scale, then you can see exactly how much weight the trailer is “losing” ie transferring to trucks hitch
Very good video! This is why I bought the 3500 DRW - the truck isn’t any issue for weights. But so easy to top out the 5th wheel. A free ton, if you have it in the rv, isn’t as much as you think
Good info. I watched payload very closely when I purchased our new trailer last fall. We are close, but o.k. Towing a trailer with a GVRW of 6,933 lbs. with a Silverado 1500 with tow package and payload of 1,755 lbs. We have 100+ lbs of cushion. Trailer and truck tow very nicely. The torsion bar suspension on the Rockwood Mini Lite is excellent. Braking is smooth and powerful on the truck and the trailer.
How does it handle going over and down mountain passes?
What are your tire ratings?
Have not had it on mountain passes as yet. I towed our previous trailer, which weighed about 500 lbs less, out to PA and back last summer, about 3.500 miles. The PA turnpike has a few grades, but nothing like the mountains in the west. Living in MN, most of our travel will not be in the mountains. Don't know the specific ratings, but my truck has Goodyear Wrangler All Terrain Kevlar tires. The trailer has Goodyear Endurance. Been towing travel trailers on Goodyear Wranglers of different flavors since 2011. Never had an issue with truck or trailer tires. @@mmmd3429
Definitely Under Trucked Lol 100lbs of cushion, 100 lbs of cushion is you fooling yourself into believing that you're not a danger to Yourselves, but you need to at a minimum a 3/4 ton with towing packages etc.
Then, you will have an appropriate Cushion.
So true, so true! If he was at 75% of max tow or hitch weight and 100#’s over, that’s one thing, but to be within 100#’s of max ratings. No way! OMG! Unless I am reading that wrong? @@timsmothers8740
Thank you, very helpful.
Awesome teaching!!
Great video! Thanks.
The guy across the street from me tows a 5th wheel bigger than your setup. He goes to Gulf Shores for the winter. Straight shot south from here. Pretty much same setup as you, F350 super duty, Platinum truck every box checked when dealer ordered it. He swears he is within limits. I think if he did what you showed he would be surprised. Funny thing is he says there's guys pulling 5th wheels down to the place they stay for the winter with just as big units as his and they are driving F250s. Now the scarier thing is the guy one street over that's pulling from the bumper a trailer about as long as your 5th wheel with a crew cab F150 and a bunch of kids.
Great video breakdown on the GVW & axle weights.
Truck Driver for 30+ years and alot of people do not understand these numbers
Thanks for creating such a clear and informative video - this was great. One small suggestion: while your method for calculating gross trailer weight certainly works, it is much easier and more intuitive to simply take the gross weight of the Truck and RV combo and subtract the gross weight of the truck. Using your numbers, that would be 25,580 - 8,840 = 16,740. No need to do all the math with the axle weights!
If you moved your 5th wheel forward, you could shift more weight onto the front axle. Then you just need to move some of the trailer's weight to the rear of the trailer to take 900 lbs off the truck to stay under GVWR. On semi trailers you can slide the trailer axles forward to transfer weight from the tractor to the trailer to get everything to scale out.
That was really a good video. You are right, payload is always the issue folks talk about, but this is the first time I have really heard about axle ratings.
Thanks! Yes, in all my research it just barely came up. And it can be one of the first numbers to get overloaded on a 5th wheel. Especially in a 3/4 as they are around 6k lbs.
The best weight system for RV’s is Smart weigh at the Escapees RV parks. It’s also the tires and age of tires. It also gives you the weight on each tire. You will also get advice on how to correct any problems.
Make it easy. Take your front axle GVWR, rear axle GVWR, Trailer axle GVWR, look at Truck sicker total GVWR, if you go across Cat Scales they will give you each axle and and total of everything you have on board, then you will know if you have axles over loaded, or the total package;
Back in the day, we old timers we were Outlaws,, we new when the scale were open , the jump scales, ran 4 log books, lol, yea. Great. Time Driving over the road, screw the weights,, had to bury the tire chains in the snow, before the scale,, then went off loaded, and come back get the chains, lol,
Great video and lots of good information for all of us. You are correct on the 3/4 ton trucks....just not enough payload for lots of the shorter full profile rigs like yours. I had a Ram 2500 CTD and was delighted when Alliance came out with their Avenue line, which allowed us to get one with that truck. But after pulling it for a season, I wanted a 1 ton long bed for more payload and to tow w/o a slider. So we upgraded to a Chevy 3500 CCLB DRW!!! And it is wonderful. It's way more than I need right now, but when/if we decide to upgrade campers, we are set. One thing I noticed on your set up is your hitch looks to be HEAVY!!! You might want to research the Gen Y gooseball hitch, which could reduce your weights by a few hundred pounds. Also, when you converted over to the IS system, did it increase your GVWR on your trailer since you don't have axles anymore? The IS system w/ hydraulic brakes looks to be the way to go. Thanks again for sharing with us.
Given all the grand design issues with changing the box hitches and given that most RVs are on Lippert chassis; that may not be great advice.
Most over weight rigs will never become an issue. The problem comes up if you’re ever in a collision with someone else. That’s when shit hits the fan.
Good info! Americans really do love those giant caravans / rvs.
Good discussion.
Curb weight is truck weight, totally dry. When weighing truck for this purpose, it should be full fuel tanks and everything you normally add as cargo(people,firewood, generator, bikes, tools etc). Same for camper. Then hit the CAT Scale and get your weights with/without camper.
Modern F250 & F350 have same body & frame. Differences come primarily in suspension/spring ratings, axle ratings and SRW vs DRW configurations.
My F250 CC has an official curb weight of 6900 pounds. But it weighs 8100 pounds. I'm glad I never did my calculations based on the "official" weight.
no, @@jlexon ... it has a *base*(not "official) curb weight of 6900 pounds. You apparently have 1200 pounds of optional and additional equipment.
@@jlexon That's crazy! Both of the trucks I have owned were around 350# heavier than factory numbers when I got them. I weighed them on the way home after purchasing them. Running boards, hitch, and an overweight driver explain most of that. The factory numbers are supposed to represent full fluids and a 150# driver, but excludes most options and accessories. How on earth did you get that far over?!?
Thanks for the information.👍
So, running the numbers on our 2024 GMC 3500 Sierra Pro dually diesel and Grand Design Solitude 390RK with the 8 K axles and independent suspension gives me this: GVWR 14,000 (actual 12,500), GCWR 40,000 (actual 29,020), Front Axle WR 6,000 (actual 4,920), Rear Axle WR 10,400 (actual 7,600) Payload (adjusted for loaded truck only weight of 8,800) 5,207 (actual 4,127) and the truck seems fine. Where we are over, however is on the trailer weight, rated for 18,485, with the actual coming in at 20,220 (1,715 over), but that has a true capacity of as much as 25,000 pounds per Grand Design. We have been working to lighten the trailer weight throughout our journey and plan on dropping several hundred more over the summer in Maine at our seasonal site. Great information here, thanks!
Love your setup. I currently have a 17 F350 6.7 king ranch dually with a 23 Alliance paradigm 385fl. 41.6 ft. It seems crazy that my combo was 25886 last time I hit the scales which is one about 300lbs more than yours. Thanks for the video. Very informative 👏
I like the way you presented this- saying how it can seem like everything is ok but you don’t really know until you do the math.
My rule of thumb is that a tri-axle camper needs a duelly and most double axles campers can be towed by a 3/4 ton.
We just went through the same learning process when upgrading from a travel trailer to a FW. I did a bunch of research and we just bought our new FW last weekend. I have the same truck but not the Tremor. Pretty sure we’ll be at 100% payload capacity when towing if not slightly over. If I wouldn’t have done the research I shudder to think how much over we’d be. Thanks for putting this out there. I think it will be helpful to many folks. 🍻
Probably should show the other sticker on the door jam (yellow with the tire on it) It actually shows your payload number. This is important as it compensates for the trim level of your truck. There's also one on your trailer.
Your truck is a 4x4, and the arrow in the maximum trailer weight is pointing at the 4x2 version of the truck. Due to the extra weight of the transfer case and front driveline, your GVWR and GCWR will decrease - it looks like 500 pounds, from the chart. Everything factors into this. Before you start factoring in trailers and personal gear, all of your decisions to add to the truck build, such as cab length, frame length, engine, driveline, options, fuel, coolant, etc. detracts from the vehicle’s rating, affecting what you can carry.
Many years ago, while I was driving an 18 wheeler over the road, I made a rookie mistake. I went to Campbells to pick up a load of canned goods. My mistake was to go in their warehouse with my fuel tanks below half. I forgot that they weighed your vehicle as you enter the lot so they can load your truck to max capacity. For the next 4 days I had to stop twice a day to get fuel because I couldn’t fill the tanks past half without making the truck over weight. You don’t want to risk it. Overload fines are in the K’s.
I weighed my truck and travel trailer in 2019 and bought a new truck the next year before traveling again. Yes it was very much overweight on the drive axle even with the anti sway and leveling hitch. I also changed wheels and tires on the trailer and made some adjustments. My rig is so much easier to drive now.
I’ve always gone with payload weight in my calculations, because it is said that you’ll break your payload weight be for your tow weight. I do thank you for this information about cat scales because I will double check my calculations when I get my trailer back out this summer.
Great video!
Good job! I had a 2017 Silverado 3500 LWB single rear wheel truck and towed a 2018 Solitude 310gk. In the truck I had a heavy ranch hand front bumper with a 18k winch, in the rear I had a 60 gallon fuel tank and a tool box plus a 20k Curt 5th wheel hitch. My GVWR for the truck was 11,600. When loaded my rear axle ranged from 7200 to 7500 depending on how much fresh water I had in the tank. Front axle was usually around 5600 which was right at max for the axle. So, I was 12,800 to 13,100 gross, almost 1500 lbs overloaded. Last year I traded my truck and bought a dually! Now I have a little cushion, but my Gross vehicle weight rating is still only 14,000, so not as much as one would think. My rear axle rating is now 10,500 and my front is 6,000 so I have plenty of capacity, but I will go over gross if I get carried away.
Just a note: He says that front axle loads don't really matter. If you install your fifth wheel hitch or gooseneck ball in front of the rear axle you will add weight to the front axle. In fact, it should be installed in front of the rear axle. If you have too much weight on the rear axle you may be able to move your hitch point forward to shift weight and correct that. (I've done this on my own truck, it actually drives a lot better with more weight on the front axle.)
Something very few people know (ask the manufacturer) most towing vehicles have a 300 pound driver weight exclusion.
The vehicles payload sticker does not include the driver, because the driver is considered part of the vehicle.
So there is a hidden allowance.
On my WK2 Grand Cherokee it's 300 pounds. I don't weigh 300 pounds, I weigh 180 pounds. So I can add the remaining 120 pounds to my total pay load capacity.
Another hidden number is the dealer option buffer.
The payload sticker number assumes the vehicles has every option the dealer can sell and install for you at the dealership.
All you have to do is weight your empty vehicle and deduct that number from your GVWR you will see that this number never matches your pay load capacity number.
Because this difference will include the driver allowance plus the dealer option buffer.
The numbers that matter the most, are the axel ratings GAWR, the GVWR. And the CGVWR.
Everything else is a shell game based upon those numbers.
One of your best videos.
Thanks for posting this. 👍
Looks as if the hitch in bed is to the rear I have a companion hitch an it is adjustable an can flip it to add weight to front axle as I did tons of adjustments on it
Thank you for the information. I will stay with a Ram 3500.
if you pull a trailer with an equilizer, you'll want to do a 3rd weight-in. 1st do the whole rig like in the video. the 2nd, unhitch the equalizer but leave the trailer attached. 3rd, pull to a safe parking area and drop the trailer. calculate the weight the equalizer has on front axle. that will be your tongue weight