Why I Keep Buying RIM BRAKE Bikes (My Giant TCR & BMC Teammachine)
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
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The last two road bikes I have purchased, the Giant TCR and the BMC Teammachine have been rim brake. As such, I have received many questions from people as to why I keep buying rim brake bikes over disc brake bikes. So, I thought I'd make a video about it. In this piece I will share my two main reasons why I buy RIM and provide a detailed example with my most recent purchase, being the BMC Teammachine, with Shimano Ultegra and DT Swiss wheels.
#Rim #brakes #cycling - Спорт
Fully agreed. I’m a roadie with a mountain biking background, yet I will never buy a road bike with disc brakes. Truly endless headaches, drag and maintenance. The pros enjoy the extra stopping power because they have a team of dedicated mechanics perfecting their bikes each and every day. For us in the real world, we’ll stick to rim brakes. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
As a bike mechanic, I totally see where you are coming from. Rim brakes are generally easier to work on because you can see all of the moving parts. That being said, disc brakes are very easy to work on from a mechanics perspective (barring a bleed problem), but they can definitely be more finicky to work on on the side of the road, it is a totally different skill set.
I live in a rain forest, and would much rather sell disc brakes than rim brakes, they are just more reliable in the weather that we have. The pads do last longer if they are the right ones (sintered metal), but the long lasting ones make much more noise. Rim brakes are easy to tell when they are worn out, where disc brake pads take a practiced eye, and sometimes calipers, to check if they are worn. Hydraulic disc brakes are also self centering, so they don't change in feel when they are worn out. Rim brakes have a cable and exposed pads so you can feel a difference in lever throw when they are getting worn.
Sorry for the info-dump, I just really like bikes!
Thanks for sharing Parker. Cam
Yeah, bikes are fun. This year I built my first disc bike, mostly cheap used parts but a new set of mechanical discs from TRP. I was a bit worried they'd be a pain to set up but they were no problem, I was mindful of an extended bedding-in period but that was soon over, I thought they might need expensive cables but regular ones work fine for now. I've adjusted the front pads a few times which is really easy, and I've put spare pads in my seat pack just in case (I'm a mechanic not a weight weenie). On rides I've been pretty much unaware of them - they stop me as hard or gently as I want, they don't make any noise. I think I probably brake harder and later with discs in the dry than I do with rim brakes, it remains to be seen how well they will wear. Now I've got a disc/canti fork for the tandem, I'm trying to decide what levers to put where for a multi-brake setup.
@@CamNicholls hey mate this is no way an attack on u,embrace solutions other than excuses I'm a rim brake guy to and I'm not good with my hands but other than wheel building and truing I learned bike maintainence myself cuz I don't trust anyone working on my expensive bikes and its pretty easy once u learn it,ride safe from Boston mass usa
@@jayjones6840 In order to replace rims that are worn from braking, you will need wheel building and truing skills.
"billmouldwheels.com/wheel-building-school
bikeschool.com/classes/mechanic-classes/advanced
Rim brakes ARE disc brakes, using the largest possible rotor diameter.
A disc? Only on triathlon / TT bikes😜
Seriously, maybe the largest possible diameter, but on which you can't put as much brake pad pressure on to, with lots of rainwater to disperse and a "rotor" that's not only hollow, but an integral part of the system that carries your weight and holds all the steering, drive plus braking forces - which you wear down each time. Plus stories of bursting latex tubes unless going tubeless. Weaker deceleration, more hand force, thus not so easy to modulate.
Esp. with bags or panniers, traffic or descents, all weather, these aspects made switch to disc. Therefore I accept the weight and trickier maintenance and care.
Nik Veldkamp it is unclear what you mean when you say “weaker deceleration” when competently adjusted rim brakes can easily skid the rear wheel, and flip the rider over the front, unless of course you have an unusually weak grip strength. The maximum deceleration of any two wheeled cycle is determined by the traction of the front tire, and on dry pavement that is usually sufficient to lift the rear. Once your front brake has sufficient power to do that, greater deceleration cannot be obtained as you will “go over the bars” as they say. All I of my rim braked bicycles can easily do that. Disc brakes HAVE to provide much greater pad pressure due to the much smaller diameter of their rotor. However, they do that by employing much higher mechanical leverage (hydraulic or otherwise), as the input force from the riders grip strength is no more than with rim brakes. That comes with it’s own set of trade offs, such as inadequate pad clearance, and the resulting ‘zing-zing-zing’ often heard. Plus, I dislike the need to have significant beefier forks that sacrifice ride comfort to accommodate the asymmetrical braking forces from the front disc caliper.
Disc brakes are useful if one rides in mucky or wet conditions frequently. I do not. Rim wear with quality brake pads and only occasional rides in rain is acceptable from my experience as I have never had to replace a rim on a road bikes, touring bike, and even on my tandem, which is much harder on brakes and rims. Some of my wheels have more than 50k miles on them. Mountain bikes-that’s another story.
@@davyhaynes6716 tell me something I wouldn't know, honey 💋
As I said, I rode both, weighed the pros & cons, my climate region, traffic and riding and deliberately chose disc. (Except for hillclimbing contests)
Your ride, your choice.
Well A disk is A disk and rim is A rim. Not the same at all.
Nik Veldkamp that’s fine. Everyone should ride the equipment they like, and that works for them. I only replied previously because you made factually incorrect statements.
"A man has got to know his limitations..." - Clint Eastwood.... it’s all good on not being a tinkerer.... much respect for the end of the video Cam...
100% agree with you Cam, bike companies are so good at marketing. My road bikes have been and will continue to be rim brakes, damn the integrated rim brakes are even better and strong enough. I have given up convincing ppl about the negative aspects of disc and will let them learn through experience. We all just want to ride our bikes and ensure they work most of the time... reducing complexity is job 1.
I have both a rim and disc brake bike, but one thing that made me switch to disc brakes for my main bike is that I run road tubeless, and running tubeless on rim brakes will heat up the sealant and dry it out faster. I also like tinkering and modifying my bikes but have to agree that disc brakes are more maintenance (bleeding, pad and rotor replacements), which i don't mind too much. Another thing is i live in a quite hilly area, and disc brakes seem to perform better on those steeper descents.
I cycle in Tenerife and still feel rim brakes are the nuts.
Totally agree with your thoughts on disc brakes. I'm not opposed to them...they seem amazing. But yeah, they also seem like a pain in the ass. Just changing a tube seems harder. And since I'm not pro and I hardly ever ride in the rain, the benefits are a waste for me. Keep it simple...
Precisely! I'm amateur and just enjoy rides. Don't take part in any competitions (born faulty) When I get caught by rain, I slow down to like 20kmh, just to crawl over the bad weather region as clean as possible. Don't need super strong brakes for that! Also hate the dirty work and clean the gear one more extra time...
Love the honesty about tinkering with bikes, not everyone is going to be good at it and that's okay
mateusz123573 maybe it’s just me but a bike is a reasonably simple machine. Adjusting the pads so they don’t rub is an extremely simple task. Cycling is a sport that potentially takes you far away from home and on your own. Every cyclist should understand the basics of bike repair and maintenance.
@@mayalman I agree but I think he was referring to more complicated bike jobs
but he was genetically modified, thought crispr hasn't passed human trials yet, or at least not that we know of
Agreed! I rarely race in the rain. I have a trainer for when it's wet outside so for me rim brakes are a no brainer. I don't plan on paying more for a slower/heavier bike any time soon.
Agreed, after rediscovering zwift during lockdown I’m not sure I’ll ever ride in the rain again
Where I live it would be like never racing at all. It rains all the time here.
And i dont brake. So also a non brainer
I'm in Ohio, USA...it's wet, so I ride in the rain. The reasons I like it: keeps me cool so I can ride harder for longer: cars think you are nuts, so they notice you & give you room for a change. Give it a try some time
@marko looking forward to riding over there & experiencing it for myself. Have a great week.
the kid face planted from that height and didn't even shed a tear. Great kid you got there haha
From one hopeless handyman to another...I'm with you bro 💪👍😉
haha! Good to know I am not alone. Thanks mate. Cam
@@CamNicholls You are not alone. I'm happy to tinker on DIY cleaning/maintenance items and learning to manage my new disc brake all-rounder that will have errand/commuting/gravel-curious/slackpacking machine duties, but I know my limitations as a mechanic. Then it's off to my LBS when I don't have the time to 1) learn to do the job, 2) do the job, 3) the desire to build a tool shed for tools required. 4) I spend enough time repairing things around the house and I would rather spend more time actually riding when I can. Go with your strengths. My nine-year-old rim brake road frame is about to get a component groupset facelift I've spec'd with my LBS. They will get it done in a day, it would take me forever. There are too many other demands on my time.
I am with you on this one too, and I am pretty handy. I have built two bikes from the frame up, both Rim Brakes. Who wants to deal with everything that goes with Disc breaks.
Great Tribute at the closing of the video. I want to commend you and your family for being so open and sharing such personal experiences. Thank you. Cheers Mate
I love my rim brakes, always have ever since I was a little boy growing up just a mile from the cafe Cameron stops at. Another excellent video for my morning coffee as always cam, cheers.
Oh My Goodness! Ruby’s face after the face plant on the tight rope.
totally agree, I hope we never loose rim brakes, they are tried, tested and less hassle.
I love your honesty in this topic. Kudos to you.
'Why rim?' is a personal question between me and my girlfriend, and I would thank you kindly to not interfere in our private lives.
made my day! :-D
Sorry chap,,, Keep on Screwing.
😂😂😂😂😂
😄👍I'm sorry but the face plant was epic but she took it like a champ.
Dude, love your videos and how you include your family in them! Cheers!
Cam, TY so very much for that glimpse into your Families celebration of the contributions of your Family and Navy's sacrifice to your way of life. As a 29yr Conbat Veteran is has been my pleasure to serve with so many foreign Nations humble and professional military members. Again, Thank You and blessings to your Family for eternity!!!
Great content mate. Keep them coming.
I'm with you Cam. I had to replace my disk brakepads constantly and went back to rim as soon as i could
How often ? Where you braking having on disc braked bike ?
Do the brake lines on rims last a year or more?
@@Paulklampeeps Yes, years if you're doing 5000k a year.
Of course weight of rider and type of rider and road make a difference
Great content Cam, keep it up. I switched to discs some years ago. Love the performance, hate the maintenance.
I enjoy your videos. You're honest and candid in your opinions but remain concise and humorous... so thank you! I hope for your continued success!
Thank you Brad, appreciate the kind worlds, Cam
I agree with your analysis. Rim brakes are lighter, easier to maintain, cheap upfront cost to buy the bike and also more aero.
Yeah, though I use discs, I’m sad that direct mount brakes sort of have a premature death. I don’t ride in bad weather so if I had the choice, my next bike will be a rim brake without all those fully internal cable routing which makes travelling a PITA
To make you feel better about both your neighbours doing renos, my current situation is this (I live in an apartment):
1. New apartment building construction to the north, 2 years and counting (work starts 7am daily)
2. New apartment building to west, also 2 years and counting
3. Ground floor renovations, 6 months and counting (I live directly above on 2nd floor)
4. My neighbour on my bedroom side has one of those annoying “yap yap” dogs that barks all day long
5. My neighbour above me drags his furniture along his wooden floor above me all the time, yet insists “it can’t be me, I have rugs down mate”
Anyway, gotta keep smiling and your videos help me do that! Take care 😃
As a fixed gear rider (one that uses brakes)
I believe in the K.I.S.S method
Keep it simple stupid
We don’t have a team to maintain our bikes
Rim brakes work good enough for the layperson
They’re cheaper
They’re lighter ,usually
@@The86rick well, it depends on how you set your cables up .. got my da9000 rimbrake calipers for years now and my jagwire elite links are never messy.
Couldn't have said it better, totally agree.
Unless you descend mountains in the rain rim brakes work perfectly. They are also easy to work on and don’t squeal or finicky to adjust
My rim brakes definitely squeal sometimes. My disc brakes are perfectly silent. Both have their place, but I love disc brakes
@@Sidowse I never think i have had good enough grip in my wheels for how good my pads have been griping on my rims even in the wet but yea maybe i have good rims or something
@@Sidowse i stop my rim brake bike for emergency stop in the wet i just move my weight to the back and slam the brakes but i don't know if that doing of mine wear the rim. But yeah if it is wet the rim brake has loud sound
Face plant face...priceless especially with the little smile
For a moment, I thought she was gonna cry. Very cute.
Each to their own, I switched to disc on my TCR and love them, fitted myself which wasn't difficult but did take a while. The thing I like the most is it gives me more confidence on fast descents which I normally struggle with.
Rim brakes or discs. It doesn't make any difference on descents.
@@bcskitouring exactly, they have the same stopping speed, just different feel and that's just because it's hydrolic
Good luck when the rotors warp
@@dickieblench5001 thanks for that dickie, only 3 years later, guess what, rotors never warped.
Excellent and honest video comparing disc and rim brakes. Rim brakes are so simple and effective. I started riding disc's on my mountain bikes in 2005. I never felt that I needed the same braking on my road bike when I went for a road ride. Also, aligning a road caliper is tons easier and faster than aligning a disc caliper where the issue might be one piston being more sticky than the other (or fork to axle issues), meaning in order to get it right, you'd need to lubricate the piston seals (or unlatch the axle, turn the hub axle and relatch until there is no rub). Doing so often leaves some fluid in the piston and if you don't clean the excess fluid, it gets on your pads. Now you have to replace your pads AND clean your rotors. It's a cluster that would never happen on a rim brake bike.
All those extra variables and possibilities for a non-optimal experience for more powerful braking that simply isn't needed for a huge percent of the time you are riding.
I bought my bike in 2020: rim brakes. I don’t do technical descents or race on heavy rain.
SAFA Brian is riding a lot of rim brakes models and he is desceding like son of satan.
Nice video. Makes sense regarding rim brakes. R.I.P. Stanley
Thank you mate. Cam
Total agreement. I obviously have disc brakes on my mtn bike. I've hated them ever since I got the bike. In fact, I removed the front hydraulic disc brake and put mechanical disc brakes on. Way less problems and they perform about as good as the hydraulics. I'm not good enough to tell the difference. I don't plan on being able to afford a new road or mtn bike anytime soon but I I'm perfectly happy with my rim brakes on my current road bike. In fact I swapped out my old Ultegra groupo for much less expensive 105s... which are much better than 10 year old Ultegras. Rim brakes and all.
Really nice touch at the grave/memorial with the girls doing cheers with grandpa’s beer. 👍
Im with you mate, love my rim brakes and discount frames. I’m happy that my mates have been suckered in to “having to have” disk brakes. I get to buy all sorts of goodies that they don’t need anymore. Carbon fibre wheels for one 😉🤣
I use both types of brakes on my bikes. They are relatively simple, affordable bikes, with no carbon at all. If you are commuting 5k km + per year, a disc brake usually causes less maintenance than a V brake, which needs steady adjustments in this case, also V brakes compared with aluminum rims barely brake at all in the rain until one or 2 rotations of the rim, which you need to brake the rim dry, despite good kool stop brake pads. In dry weather the brake performance is good with both types, with good brake pads.
My brake calipers are from the Shimano Altus group, combined with Tourney discs, spare parts are cheap, and they are fine until someone pushes them really hard (downhill mountainbiking, or competitions, in these cases better ones are needed).
So, rim brakes can also be good, it depends how you use your bike, and in which conditions.
Loved your wife's reaction to you trying to talk yourself up. Fuckin gold.
Nice honest video Cam ... keep up the good work 👍🏻
Agree with all your points. I have one bike with disc brakes and they're a constant problem. If I take a wheel off I have to re-adjust everything, and the rear brake has an air bubble or a leak or something that means it constantly needs to be bled. Rim brakes for the win.
Have had my first carbon fibre roadie for just over 12 months now and it’s disc brakes, personally I’ve had no troubles and wouldn’t want anything else. My two bikes before my roadie, a flat bar and hybrid were also both disc brakes. I live at the top of a 4km climb, 200+ metres and there are some other steeper climbs around too, I’m not the smallest or lightest guy so I do feel way more comfortable having disc brakes, and having just upgraded to a nice carbon fibre wheel set which are 50mm deep I do like how I don’t have rim brakes that are coming into contact with the wheel.
Each to their own of course, this debate can get so heated at times, I don’t see it as such a big deal, go with what you like and are comfortable with and also power/weight savings really mean nothing in the end because reality is still have to pedal!!
Thanks for sharing
Cam Nicholls that’s all good! And Funny you reply today, I did my first 200km from 2:30am with 8 hours riding and I happened to be riding in 5° with heavy dew at the start, not needing my brakes to much as I cruised the first bit in the dark, no cars at all where I was, but because of the cold and the dampness from the dew/fog my discs made the most awful sound, I couldn’t have been anything else because once I used them on a decent or two and they warmed up the noise left and then after some more climbing and cruising with no brakes before another decent, they then made the same horrible squealing like sound. If one thing would put me off discs that would be it!!! But I was certainly thankful for them as the day warmed up and I hit some descents with some good corners I’d never done before
I've always ridden disc brakes on my MTBs, and recently bought a road bike with rim brakes. Yes, it's simpler. But those disc brake problems shown here, aren't commonplace. For now, I prefer rim brakes in my road bike since I want low maintenance and easy travelling. But for the future, discs are a no-brainer.
Thanks for sharing Pedro
Great video. I'm looking at a new bike and this is interesting stuff. It is now making my decision even more difficult!
Just joined! Happy to help support the channel. I have the opposite problem, know a lot about riding, training, and wrenching but nothing about recording videos for UA-cam. Keep up the great work!
Haha! Classic...thanks for supporting the channel Shawn 👍
I like rims for the following reason.
1. I am already in the rim eco system, so easy to swap wheels between bikes.
2. Good rim brakes are far superior to cheap disc brakes found in low end bikes. Ex. The new Ultegra R8000 brakes have superb modulation and control.
3. In the event of an alignment issue rim brakes are easy to adjust.
4. I like the look of minimal simple and clean design of a rim brake bike.
5. Rims are easy to maintain and clean.
Those R8000 brakes are a revelation, right?!
@@Bendersnatchling yes they are fantastic!
my r8000 brakes are insane how strong they are! way better than the el cheapo disc brakes on my gravel bike! fucking love them
6. they have less weight
7. rims are more aero
8. rims are cheaper
Thinking of swapping out my old 6700 Ultegra for r7000 or r8000. Is there really such a big improvement in braking?
I've ridden road, trail and mountain over 40 years and never have I thought 'I need more braking power'. Rim brakes work just fine. They're simple and relatively inexpensive.
I am with you mate! I changed my bike last year for a Force disk bike, and now I am hunting again for a rim version. Hope to buy soon!
Love your work BTW. Keep it coming.
Honestly as a mountain biker originally converted to road biking it's been hilarious watching roadies use disc brakes. There are lots of different types of pads out there which wear at different rates etc. The discs as long as you have some disc brake cleaner and you don't try and touch your discs with your fingers you shouldn't have much issue with disc brakes. Sometimes they are cold/dusty and they'll squeal for 5s. And I've ridden almost 3.5km on my current pads and they aren't even half way through, does probably help I clean my bike very thoroughly during the winder season and after wet rides. But honestly if you just bother to learn a little bit on how to use disc brakes carefully they are the dream compared to rim brakes
Ritchie Budd kinda same here. I rely on discs on my everyday bikes to quickly stop on my commutes and of course I had some issues the first time bleeding the brakes and experimented with different pads, but that’s just the learning curve you gotta go through with new stuff. My next roadbike will probably be disc if I choose to do a allround road/cyclocross/travel bike
The difference is that it is not the same calipers used on the road bikes. e.g. SRAM have used a monoblock design on their highend series with waaay to little clearance, leading to massive amounts of problems setting up or pads scrubing during ride or hard acceleration. He is just pointing out, that there is a difference, and he don't fancy the strong points enough to switch over. I run both MTB, CX and building a new Aero bike at the moment. Last bike mentioned is rim brake, primarily because of the price, secondary because Denmark is flat as a pancake. I will never see a hill that warrents the disc brakes stronger braking performance. And I'll buy a good alu wheelset, and then there is not really much pushing for disc on the road bike....
I am right with you!!! I don’t want disc brakes and it’s a shame that they are being marketed as “better”. Thanks for the great videos and please don’t stop making videos!!!!
It's not pure marketing, just a relative thing. Every systems are better in someway and worse in other way, sometimes it's even a problem of perspective. Take maintenance for example, DB is "marketed" as low maintenance and truth be told it did, I rarely need adjusting cable (bleeding) or pad, never have to pick or file the pad, never quite have to worry about the rotor ware. But on the flip side once DB need real maintenance it is a rather nasty job that sometime i just let the bike shop to do it.
COVID has brought road cycling back into my life. I'm more into the mountain stuff now (racing xo) as finding safe places to train here is difficult because people are disgusting sometimes. Anyways, thanks for your information sharing. I'll be buying a coffee. As a mtb guy, disc seem second nature to me, so I'd love to give them a go on a road bike. When I was younger and raced in the 80's, wet rims used to terrify me, so rim brakes....yeesh. I had a cry as well for your Stanley. I'm a US Navy vet and the world owes so much to vets of his generation. Thanks for sharing and especially the family parts. The reminders that we aren't pros and have to have balance is always appreciated. #greatwork #shutuplegs
I have both. Ones on my old bike are rim brakes. On my new bike are disc. I love both. I don't like that the rim brakes wear the rims down, but they are thicker after all. I have heard all sorts of sounds from my rim brakes. Best thing about rim brakes is that it is easy to see if the pads are getting worn. Best thing about disk brakes (hydraulic) is the modulation. I am not keen on how fragile the rotors look. I always worry about them getting bent or kicked. So far so good. I can also easily swap out wheel sets with disc brakes. I can go from a 29 inch road wheel to a 26 inch balloon tire wheel, for those occasions when I want to go off-road. Since both have rotors, the bike itself doesn't care. Small issue frame geometry wise, but it is tolerable. Hydraulic brakes are more work, but the modulation is worth it. Very helpful in San Francisco down steep inclines.
I'm a guy who doesn't like change all that much. I like my bike to be metal and my brakes squeezing my rims.
Love my disc brakes and wouldn't go back. The pads wear, but if you keep an eye on them it's not an issue. It's not like they'll be fine one ride and suddenly gone the next.
And the noise just means they are contaminated. Easy to clean. Easy to maintain once you know what you're doing too. Appreciate your viewpoints, but they aren't really an issue.
I love my disc brakes. On my motorcycle. Or on my fully. But I dont need them on a race bike.
@@bedolschnutzler2604 fair enough if you feel like you don't. I love the confidence I have with them in wet weather etc. Never fully trusted rim brakes in bad weather.
Recently found the channel, great stuff.
I have Shimano disc brakes on my mtn bikes, and love them. But when I had Hayes/Avid I had endless random pad rubbing, and when I would drive from sea level up the mtns they'd suddenly need a bleed. Bottom line: low end rim brakes are much better and more trouble free than low end disc brakes. My SRAM rim brakes on the road bike are fine, and I hope whenever I upgrade the bike I can still find one with rim brakes.
Cheers!
I live on the coast of SE Georgia USA and ride here and North Florida. No elevation. Our biggest hills are interstate roadway overpasses. So, reason #4....rim brakes stop pretty darn good on flat ground. Finally wore out my 2015 TCR C2 and just took delivery of a 2020 Giant TCR Advance Pro 1 with rim brakes. Great content Cam, keep it up mate!
Yep, you are the perfect rim brake rider. I’ve seen your race videos. They’re dry and flat. They’re cheaper (until you wear out your carbon wheels, but still maybe cheaper on balance) and easier to maintain.
Me, I’m the perfect disc brake rider. I can ride from my home on gravel or tarmac to a peak higher than any in Australia. My house is on a 14% grade. The shortcut hits 25% max. The mountain roads have a lot of clag, and I have to brake continuously on the local roads for cars, kids, and dogs. We have wet winters (I can’t stop!) and hot summers (is my wheel going to melt???)
I got a great deal on a 2010 Felt F1 Dura Ace. Love the bike (though it’s a bone shaker on rough roads), but I nearly died on those dang rim brakes in the wet. I’ll never own a rim brake bike again!
Regarding noise, I’ve had more noise on my Hunt Wide Aero rims (with Hunt-provided pads) than any of my disc road bikes. And riding disc brakes to metal-on-metal failure is daft, isn’t it? I’ve worn out pads and replaced them without issue. But yeah, don’t neglect them to failure!
On some days and some rides, rims do work okay for me, but just because the ride starts with clear skies doesn’t mean that it will last. (At least not in the US Pacific Northwest.)
So, yeah. I hate rim brakes deeply for my riding. But if I were in your position, I’d go rims without hesitation.
Finally someone with a clue. I wanted to see these rim brakes apologists buy a MTB with V-brakes.
Different people need different equipment :)
@@piteiracorp I would gladly buy a decent MTB with V-brakes if decent rims would be available. I have problems finding high-end rims with brake track. You can either get old narrow rims or extremely heavy rims. I think braking performance of the V-brakes with good brake pads is good enough and I don't feel any need to complicate things.
So you must be new to cycling? If not how did you manage before disc brakes?
Mbal 40 ; he answers that question with several reasons..
Agreed I've had a disc tcr 2019 and a rim tcr 2019. I brought into discs as I believed I needed them being new to road bikes. However I soon came to realise why they may offer better braking in the wet I don't ride in wet conditions (if its raining ill jump on zwift). My disc tcr got sold as I just had enough, I was running the R8020 ultegra hydro shifters and suffered a leak from the master cylinder within the hood (this was replaced under warranty with shamino).
Going to my first ever rim brake road bike I find the tcr slr1 wheels and pads are great even when I've been caught out in the odd rain shower.
I find in the dry I can lock up the front wheel before loosing braking so 4 me I see no need for more power.
The only disadvantage is rim wear but which disc users will shout out about. But 4get to mention rim wear takes years if the brakes are used correctly....
But more importantly your paying a premium for a disc brake bike, in the UK its an extra £300 / 500 for the same bike.... That extra money would buy another set of rims anyway 😂
rain isnt the only source of wet, disks are used on low speed MTB`s so YES they will be needed even more on road bike, you got your priorities wrong.
@@piteiracorp mtb and road is very different imo... Mtb you're on and off your brakes all day.
Road if your on your brakes a lot u probably shouldn't be on the road yet... Why would you want to keep scubbing off your speed.
And a weight penalty. Rim brakes for the road bike and disc for the MTB. Everyone is different and has different riding styles and must choose wisely.
The people that are most worried about rim wear are badass people that make 1000 km per year max. and wouldn't wear out a single rim even if they had sandpaper instead of brake pads.
Cheers bud. I love riding my bike, and agree with ya. Simple, light, cheap, and perfectly adequate for my riding conditions.
Love your ANZAC Day piece at the end mate.. Nicely done 👍
I remember the first time I accidentally touched the brake lever on my hydraulic disks when the wheel was off. The pads immediately shut together. I now know you can pry those apart and it's fine. At the time, I asked my bike shop and they told me I needed a $45 brake bleed and didn't mention simply prying them. I actually like mechanical disk for that reason. They stop a little worse, but are easily adjustable and not fiddly.
That aside, the stopping power from hydraulic disks on my mountain bike is miles better than what I get from the cantilever brakes on my cyclocross bike. I love the discs when i'm mountain biking. Tons of stopping power matters more on trails than on the road. When I'm on the road or gravel, the only time I miss the hydro discs is when I want to come to a cool sliding stop like Nino Schurter after sprinting my brains out. So, basically once ever.
I love tinkering with bikes, but am garbage at (and don't particularly enjoy) making video. To each their own!
Which mechanical discs are you using? There are a lot on market, but most are braking worse than V brakes. It would really interest me which ones are good.
@@simonm1447 I've used Avid BB5s, and thought they were fine. I've also used TRP Spyre brakes, and those were fine, as well. Maybe try some different brake pads or something, if you're having trouble?
@@jamese4729thank you very much for your answer. I don't have trouble with my own disc brakes. I use hydraulic ones from Shimano, they are fine, even if they are only inexpensive ones from the Altus group (BR MT 200).
However, the E Bike of my mother has mechanical discs from Tektro, and they are not good at all. First I will try to put Shimano pads in this brake (they fit, and the Tektro pads are awful), but the whole brake is probably not really good. So I really appreciate recommendations for good mechanical disc brake calipers.
The brakes could also be converted with hydraulic calipers, but this would demand to modify the contact switch to stop the motor to a pressure switch for hydraulic brakes.
@@simonm1447 Cheers! If it's an ebike, it might be worth trying to switch to hydraulics, although that sounds like a pain. That's a lot more weight to slow down. Hopefully the Shimano pads fix it for you!
IT LOOKS MILES BETTER. That's another valid reason in my view (in favour of rim)
Mental. Discs look cool af.
Absolutely spot on. Great video
Cam, to be fair rim brakes can make a similar racket, although only when they are applied. A few years ago I was with a tour group in Mallorca. I was assigned a Trek Emonda with nice direct mount rim brakes, alloy rims. On the second day the rear brake started howling and grabbing when I applied it, so I stopped using it, even descending switchbacks from a pass in the Col d'Honor area using only the front brake. If I got my entry speed right I could go through the turns at a decent clip. That night, the mechanic cleaned the rims with alcohol and installed fresh pads, taking care to get the alignment and toe-in right. That solved it, so either there was contamination or the toe-in was off.
That experience says that rim brakes/alloy rims are plenty powerful. Over the years, I've used that combination on serious descents in various places, sometimes in the wet, without any worries. For example, Loveland and Independence Passes in Colorado, Sonora and Tioga Passes in the Sierra Nevada, Mt Whitney Portal, Mt. Baldy Rd and Rim of the World Highway plus other descents in the San Gabriels, to name just a few. Plus rim brakes have improved enormously over the years.
Rim brakes on carbon is a completely different story, especially in the wet. Which begs the question: why use carbon rims (aside from them looking sexy)? With the exception of Lightweights (which are terrifying in the rain even using their outrageously expensive pads, and not great in the dry), carbon wheels aren't lighter than alloy until you go to deep dish wheels, and for that one can opt for carbon/alloy hybrids made by HED, Bontrager, and Shimano, which give you alloy tracks for rim brakes. These hybrids can be heavier than carbon rims, but the difference is much less than the 600-700g overall weight penalty of switching to discs.
A few years ago I had two nearly identical bikes, one with rim brakes/alloy wheels and one with disc brakes: a Trek Emonda SLR6 with direct mount rim brakes and a Domane SLR6 with discs. I rode them on alternate days and found that in dry conditions on the road I could not tell the difference in the braking - I had to look down to check which brakes I had. After that, I went back to rim brakes/alloy brake tracks (for the road).
You wont get that question from me Sir! I weigh around 235, and I have been riding rim brake bikes for 10 years now. In every conceivable condition. Never had any issues. Why fix it if it ain't broken right!? Disks are nice, but not a necessity. Still using mechanical shifting as well. Besides, disc's serious ruin the esthetics of a sexy bike as well!🥴😳🚴♂️🚴♂️
@Eddie Luvski Yep...I'm a big guy too, (6'5" 215 lbs) and have never felt the need for any more braking power than my older Ultegra rim brakes give me. Except for once wearing out a brand new pair of pads during a rainy, hilly, sandy road race, I've never had any problems whatsoever over many years and miles! And yea, discs just don't look right!
Rim brakes stop this 290 lb rider too. Maybe I’ll be 280 next month.
I understand where you are coming from but disc brakes, even hydraulic ones are not complicated. If you know what you are doing then they are not difficult to setup and maintain. I'm also the antithesis of a handyman and if I can do it everyone can do it. I'm never going back to rim brakes, the difference in performance and modulation is just a world apart
Really? Modulation? Have you ever not stopped where you wanted when riding rim brakes?
I don't feel the modulation difference at all oO
Bendersnatchling Yes, really
Sorry mate, you are wrong! The modulation argument has never been proven and is just a feel related to the hydraulic assistance being easier. Ever looked at your front wheel and noticed it has more spokes? Yep, and guess what more spokes do? Create more drag. The frames also needs to be made more rigid to accommodate the forces at the end of the forks and frame, compromising compliance, the back end is wider, so potentially creating more drag, wheels are heavier, groupsets are heavier. But people believe they are better! Why do you think the pros have resisted them, even though they can ride anything in the sponsors garage?? There is absolutely no proof they stop quicker either, when you lift the back wheel which you can do easy on modern rim brake pads, that is the braking limit of the bike, more powerful brakes will not help you.
The only advantage to a disc brake is wet weather performance, So if you ride your 10-20k bike in the wet, be my guest.
@@waynosfotos I am wrong because you say so? Let me guess, you are also against tubeless for a road bike? Yes, I ride my bikes in the rain, I'm not a good weather weekend warrior...
Frank Nolf No you are wrong because physics says so. The “Performance and modulation” you talk about is a cycling myth, there is no proof to substantiate this. The “worlds apart” you claim has no factual basis. I have researched this to death, no manufacturer nor independent body has demonstrated or claimed discs have better performance or modulation. In fact I would argue that a rim brake bike has better overall performance.
Okay, lets just say “because I say so” is completely mute, please link independent studies (not sponsored cycling magazines) that demonstrate this your claims of “worlds apart performance”?
great video. Love the end of the video, respect!
Thank you mate
Hello my Friend Cam, here Guilherme. I have a Scott addict team issue with rim brake and i have to agree with you 100%. I bought a Spz Tarmac with disc brakes and i don't feel that much when it comes to MY KIND OF PERFORMANCE. I am an amateur rider. Only in the rain disc brakes came alive. I my Spz is a simple model, with 105 groupset, so...I prefer my Scott 100% of the times. I only use the Spz for training during the week. Thank you for the video! Greetings from Bauru-São Paulo-Brazil
I bet the real reason he rides rim brakes is so that durian rider doesn’t try bully him 😂
As a bike mechanic, who also works on a fleet of 20 disc road bikes(a famous Italian brand), I've just had enough of road disc brakes, when working the performance is unmatched, however there are a couple of major issues I've come across 1) frame alignment ..... purchasing an $800.00 tool to face every flat mount is unacceptable and 2) the absolute 'faff' involved on a day to day basis with all the brands systems is a disgrace 3) pad wear.
I'm now looking to go back to rim brakes because of a flat mount issue. I live in Switzerland on the side of a mountain and I'll happily forgo better stopping for much better going!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts mate 👍
Wow pretty strong statement for rim brakes! Well said!
@@robtankbuster5215 Thanks, I don't discount disc brakes in the future however for me the technology and frame building (mass market) quality control are not sufficiently developed. In saying that, if I had a frame built by a boutique frame builder I'd happily go disc and use Swisstop disc pads with anything other than Shimano rotors
amazon(dot)com/Toolz-Disc-Mount-Facing-Tool/dp/B006FTTSZI $50
@@shannontrainer5857 totally agreed, I bought the Park Tool version so I face every frame that comes to me with disc brake issues, basically every frame
Cam I am also not handy with my bike, in fact I once took a chunk out of my toptube paint when an allen key slipped out of my hand.... Another great video, still catching up on your old stuff, cheers
Bless your family, loved your honesty about not being a handyman!
Wheels is also a factor. If you have some high end wheelsets, then you’d wanna keep buying rim brake bikes where you can still use those wheels
Jon Poon I dont know why people dont talk about the new rim brake pads? They have improved so much over the last 5 years. Carbon rim brake pad technology is so good now, performing as good as disc, I just dont see, all this hype about discs???? 🤔
@@waynosfotos I don't know about the hype...but they work fantastic. I own a ton of bikes..both rim and disc. Also used to race quite a bit. There's plenty to like about disc, they work. I originally wanted to be a hater of them, but I don't have any issues especially with wheel truing anymore. I have been riding my disc more..why? It ain't hype...im just liking it better
Please dont say you are genetically modified. As a (nearly) PhD in biotecnology this makes me angry as its soooooo wrong 😂
Appart from that I agree 100% with your choice and I still ride rim.
I am in 100% agreement with you on rim brakes v disc brakes. My cross/ gravel bike has disc brakes which require me to take it to the shop if any major issues and I am actually pretty decent at working on my bike. No issues with my road and TT bike rim brakes that I have not been able to deal with. My TT bike even has the rear brake under the chainstays and I had to adjust it when I put on wider carbon deep section rims. Also, as a veteran myself, I salute your grandfather. May he rest in peace.
I have two rimmers, couldn't be happier! You have a nice family.
Living near at the bottom of the alps, roads here are damp all year except in summer. So i switched to disc. I am not at the level that 300g would prevent me to get a kom. And having carbon wheels all the year is just a no brainer
Understandable
I'm a mechanic, i perfectly know how to deal with discs brakes but i absolutely HATE them, so i stick with rim brakes on my bikes.
As a disc brake lover since my first real MTB in 2010, I agree with all your comments regarding dic brakes because you seem to have experienced every possible issues they could ever encounter.
Great timing. Just picked up my new (second hand) Sworks Venge Disc 😂😂
Yep, I'm with you. Rim brakes for me. Another point, I just think they look better too.
Yes, I think so, too. And it's not only the rotors, the hoods are huge and ugly on disc brake drop bar bikes. I'd still go for disc brakes on a cross/gravel bike, it is way easier NOT to lock your wheels and slide with discs.
@@chrisko6439 i agree it makes a once sleek looking racing bike look heavy and chunky looking like a mt bike.
ua-cam.com/video/KLZaITy5w8I/v-deo.html
@@shannontrainer5857 Those rims were basically F****d. A regular check around your bike would have flagged that up way before they failed.
@@michaelemusic1953 My question is do they give free replacement rims/wheelsets like the UCI pros do or do I have to pay for them?
"It's the way i'm genetically modified" haha
I’m with you. Rim brakes all the way. Both of my road bikes and both of my wife’s road bikes are rim. I think disc would be good for winter but not for a best or summer bike, they aren’t needed. We do have disc on the MTBs.
I totally agree with the rim brakes. For my case it is totally for the simplicity and esthetics. At my region where I ride here is no such big downhills where I need the braking power. Unfortunately there is no more available any good rim brake bikes in my price range.
ive seen my expensive wheelset slowly becoming concave. no more rim brake for me
my solution is: use cheap wheelsets that are cheaper than discs.
@@AnastasiaSpennocchi Can you recommend one?
@@centuryfreud shimano rs11 or other cheap models...
@@AnastasiaSpennocchi Good point! My solution is to use very soft pads for the rim brakes. I use Ultegra WH6700 wheelset, 10th year now. There's some noticable wear but the rims still feel quite fine (wear indicator still visible). Also when I brake, I 1st engage the front one, then "level out" with the rear.
Keep the TCR and rim brake. Bikes are just getting heavier and heavier lol.
Ask Durianrider Heavier, but stop faster!!! Lol
Just found a video about your grandpa and his ship. Great story, great to know this, it's like another dimension of everything
Thanks for looking into that mate. He would have been chuffed 👍❤️
I like the idea of disc brakes but I’ve spent too much on rim brake wheels to even think about converting . Nice video 👍
5:48 Chris Opie?
Just Me yes
Have two rimbrake bikes. A caad12 and an incoming SLR02 Teammachine. Direct mount brakes are good enough for mein the dry as I am only 60 kgs.
Thanks for sharing mate,. Agreed, RIM brake a perfect in the dry, carbon rims in the wet though! Not ideal.
@@CamNicholls the second tier bontrager 5.0's on my Madone are HORRIBLE in th rain! I am not kicking out the extra for the XXX wheels.....sickenening......
@@CamNicholls I have 2018 Propel with SLR1 and rim brakes. Admit not been in the wet that much but brakes weren't terrible.
Very good brakes in thedry, have set off Garmin alert quite a few times.
I have rim brakes because I love my 2010 Cannondale Supersix HM. She still turns heads with her Zipp wheels and Zipp and ENVE parts. Maybe because she looks like a classic car, I don’t know. Also, she is no slouch. May not be as aero as modern bikes, but she still kicks butt and takes names!
I have a disc brake gravel bike that I love as well. So to me, both systems work really well. I honestly don’t pay much attention to the brakes during my rides. Unless it’s raining and I’m riding Zipp carbon wheels on the Cannondale.
My next target bike will either be a BMC SLR01 disc, Cannondale Supersix EVO HM DI2, or the new TRC Advanced SL. I think having these bikes with disc brakes will give me the option to ride both, disc and caliper brakes with my beloved oldie Cannondale. I’ll then have the best of both worlds.
Oh My this is actually pretty darn convincing..! However, I already got disc and am super happy with it. I think the basic point is: if anything happens to disc, it's a heck of a lot more trouble to resolve than rim.
Yep, it’s rim brakes for me Cam.
Love the posts. Happy to pay the $5/mth, but can’t seem to find the ‘click on here’ button. 🤣
Thanks for sharing mate and further supporting the channel. It should say "JOIN". Cheers, Cam
I have a question for everyone;
Whenever you see a list of pros and cons of disc vs rim brakes you will see "better modulation" as a pro on disc. Now I wonder if that is something everyone accepts because it is repeated over and over and over again.
I have rim brakes on my tri bike and in my road bikes (Dura Ace 9000, Ultegra R8000 and Red22). I have disc brakes on my hard tail (Shimano Deore XT).
When I switch between bike I feel lots of things: Different positions, wind resistance, braking POWER, which I attribute to wider tyres, the suspension fork vs stiff fork and so on. NEVER have I switched bikes and thought "Wow, where is my braking modulation.". I surely did notice aluminum vs carbon rim breaking (both mavic rims, aluminum was just waaaaaay better, now with Swiss Side .... carbon rims have a come a long way. The breaking is extremely close to aluminum (Swissstop black prince pads)) and shimano Dura Ace for aluminum)
So I wonder if I am ignorant or if you guys feel the same and the modulation thing is the result of some marketing genius.
Because I really don't feel it.
It's just straight science and engineering
Cable brakes work by stretching a metal cable. All solids stretch when you apply a force to them. The amount of stretch you get from an applied force is called the young modulus. When you pull your brake cables most of that force is applied to the rim to brake, but some of that force is used to stretch the cable. The main problem is the more force you apply the more the cable stretches, so it messes with your perception of how hard you are pulling and the amount of braking force you are applying.
On the other side, disk brakes work by compressing a fluid. Fluids are incomprehensible (at least at the forces humans are capable of applying), so every single newton of force you apply goes straight into breaking force.
It's not marketing at all.
Thank you. This was reassuring for me and informative as I was 'forced' by availability into ordering a rim brake version of a Canyon Ultimate CF SL 8. Feeling much more at peace regarding not going disc.
man i dont know but i get great joy into having simple engineering things like a rim brake that i can thinker myself with minimum equipment. Simple and effective.
I'm a carpenter here in the states and that's the sound of a table saw fantastic family time you have, I am also crazy about Rim brakes and now interested in integrated handlebars
Dealing with disc brakes is a pain in the ass. And maintaining them is more expensive. Rim brakes are quick and simple, super easy to maintain, and far less costly. Need I say more?
I dont need brakes to go fast
Yes, rim brakes are lighter too.
@@bryanoliver1900 I don't know about the pads, but I've never worn out the rims of a wheel, not in 10 years of racing. Discs are just as quick?
@@bryanoliver1900 Dude, calm down. I get it, you prefer disc brakes. I don't. Plenty of bike shops in this area of CA and I haven't run into any that have any problems with rim brake wheels "wearing out." Let it go. Maybe change your diet, Keto-dude.
@@bryanoliver1900 Just can't let it go, can you. In the mud and dirt, completely different ball game. Use your head.
I also didn’t like disc brakes. I have 2019 Cervelo S5 Disc with Dura Ace Di2 hydraulics disc brakes and it squeeze from time to time. Been adjusted many times with 3 different mechanics and myself. Still issue comes and go. Was told it’s also to do with how much I tightened the thru axil front wheel. Didn’t have issue however for back wheel. Not sure if SRAM has same issue. Plus rim brakes i have on my other bike works just as strong. I don’t cycle in rainy days anyway. Will build my next bike with rim 🙄
Interesting to hear that from someone who had the experience with disc brakes and is not a paid influencer. GCN for example... Well it's turning into one giant commercial.
Bendersnatchling indeed, had 10 months experience using the bike which i let go to another owner yesterday!
@@Bendersnatchling I stopped watching GCN when Jon Cannings disappeared from the screen.
I have a Basso Venta Disc. I don’t have intense descents around me but i don’t have a turbo so I ride in the rain which helps a lot but 8.5kgs alone 9 with everything geez
The family celebrating the grandparents and Anzac day got to me. So wonderful.
I think the road bike disc brakes are built so light to compete with rim that they sacrifice reliability. In the front where I do most of my braking on dura ace discs, the relatively small 160 mm rotor and braking surface create a lot of heat. This warps the rotor real fast and sometimes heats up the mineral oil enough to force the pistons to advance their resting position inwards. On my downhill bike with quad piston saints and 203/180 mm rotors, the overall brake temperature is much lower and barely affects the rotors if at all. And braking power is absolutely insane. The pads are easily double the size, and combined with lower temperatures and larger brake surface I’ve gotten more life from them too. This setup works all day no issue while the dura ace would suffer from warping even with an XTR rotor. I had an older TCR with rim brakes-before I snapped it in half I had no problems pulling stoppies just like my dh. That being said, in adverse conditions disc outperforms rim even though they are annoying AF, the rotor is far more isolated from debris and water and the added heat helps to cook off contaminants.