I’ve always said that I just want GRRM to be honest. If he’s lost interest, if he’s hopeless stick, whatever, just come out and say “I’m sorry, I’m not going to be able to finish it.”
Yeah I’d rather he say that and hand off the series to someone who loves it and has shown the talent to finish it. Like Anne McCaffrey has huge book series with dozens of books in each one and as she got older she brought in her son and they wrote together until she transitioned out so that someone could finish the series
It would be the respectable thing to do, but from a Business standpoint it would be a bad move. Most people would jump ship from the series completely if the author 100% confirmed that there would be no conclusion to the Books.
If he does that his existing book sales are going to drop, the audience for his spin-off shows are going to drop, and tons of deals and merch sales are going to collapse. That's why he doesn't want to be straight-forward about it.
That's not wanting honesty, that's wanting validation for your scepticism. He may well believe he is going to finish and that he's getting closer to the end.
Let's be honest here even if George suddenly feels the need to come clean to us about the real state of the book/s he would have to supress it since I am sure his publishing company and HBO must have him by the balls, contractually speaking, and they risk losing way too much money if he one day drops a bomb like "Hey, guys this will take another decade or so" or "I am too old, too rich and too unfocused to ever finish this series"
This is analogous to falling in love with someone who slowly falls out of love with you, giving you tiny speckles of hope until they just fade into obscurity and you sit there thinking “you wasted my life”.
I dont understand this, the novels we got are irreplaceable. Even if we never get an ending I will forever cherish the stories I've had from them and the breadth of the world Martin has given us.
@@kman13131And in that case, I guess it's reasonable to say: falling in love with someone who loves you back but doesn't end up loving you *forever* isn't a waste 😊 the love was beautiful while it lasted
Well the was writing on the wall with GRRM. He has stated how his idol never finished his book series. He has also stated that he would rather burn his notes then pass them off to let someone else finish them. The show finished it and now he is stuck.
@@SirCanuckelhead What can I say. If this is what he wants to do, all we can do is go ahead and move on. It is a shame, he could've truly been the American Tolkien.
He never could. It's laughable. Ive never read the books, but even from the show and the lore exerpts you get the sense how convoluted and unconnected the story lines are. There was never a way to wrap it all up in a cohesive, satisfactory manner. He's been adlibbing and stringing you along. This whole series is just a mistery box J.J. Abrams style.
george might just be like every other creative person tho. if you guess his secret he might just have to change it. the expectations put on him by us and himself are most likely why he hasnt finished. if the show ending was the true ending to the story then how can he expect us to enjoy something we've already seen and mostly hated. when it was books it was one thing but making something that isnt even completed into a cultural phenomenon and then having it end the way it did. how does he top that, how does he remove the negative taste from our mouth
As someone who started the series in 1998 and was a member of his fansite forums (westeros) for more than a decade, GRRM is a cautionary tale about fame. The first three books came out when he was relatively niche/unknown and hungry for fame and accolades. Once he achieved that, once he was proclaimed 'The American Tolkien' by Time magazine and got in with HBO, everything came screeching to a halt. Another point of frustration from his fanbase is both his endless promotion of side-projects and selling of merch and schmoozing at conventions rather than putting in the work. He became addicted to being recognized, a very heady and dangerous thing for unrecognized nerdlings with a lack of discipline/arrested development (Patrick Rothfuss comes to mind as well). I've been resigned since 2012 that we wouldn't see a conclusion to this series, and wrote it off then; I was happy to get the intended concept of the conclusion through the show, even if the execution wasn't great.
i’ve actually never thought of it this way, but it makes sense. i’ve been thinking for a while now that a lot of the issue is because he’s no longer a “struggling artist” working to keep the lights on, there’s no survival drive for him to churn out the series like he once did, along with perfectionism and the response to the ending being something he didn’t expect to be so controversial. but the fame/status idea adds up as well. the execution of the latter half of the show was poor considering the quality of the first 4 seasons, we all know that, but when you factor in all the considerations, i can see quite easily how we ended up with what we got. i will criticise d&d until the cows come home but they never signed up to complete and unfinished series that was heralded as the successor for tolkien. for a man that despises fanfiction, it’s ironic that all we have now are headcanons made from fan theories about how the gaps will be filled from the main plot points the show gave us. the fandom, and it’s all it’s contributions from theories to discussions to art to fanfiction is solely keeping the series alive, and to be honest, i think a lot of us have made our peace with this being all that we shall have.
Agreeing to give unfinished materials for TV adaptation was a big red flag that this author isn't interested in finishing it, all that bull abt being a gardener doesn't add up, the man is clearly interested in fame, recognition and money and he talks a lot, just shut up and finish it, and no the TV series gave us nothing, cause even he admitted that the books and the show are two separate things, and good analyzing by the way
This was my experience, exactly. Even the dates correspond. I quit the series around 2012, too, coming to the exact same conclusions. And in more than a decade since then, nothing has convinced me that I was wrong. Even when the HBO series came out, I shook my head sadly, thinking this can't end well. They won't have enough material to finish the series. Guess what, they didn't, and it was a disaster.
@@SingingSealRiana Tolkien droped the sequel because he realized there wasn't much of a point to make it, you also have to factor in that he never released like a half of the seaquel to then never finish it. And the silmarillon was never suposed to be a book, it was always a bunch of notes that tolkien had in order to make the universe for his books, the only reason we have the silmarillon is because his son decided to organize and edit said notes. And with all of that you also need to remember that tolkien had a full time job, being a writer was his hobby, meanwhile for GRR Martin writing is his job. Overall tolkien began wrote stories and released them for the public once they were finished, GRR Martin started releasing them to the public and then droped it midway all the while saying he's still working on it.
@@SingingSealRianathats because no one would publish it because of paper shortages lol the silmarillion is merely a collection of the stories he wrote not an enitre tale from beginning to end, and like has already been stated he had no interest in the sequel after he realized it was not something he enjoyed writing
@@SingingSealRiana We can say that Tolkien never finished worldbuilding (always had more stories to add that he never published), but he finished the individual stories (LOTR was done, Hobbit was done, Silmarillion was... mostly done, it just had to be organized and edited, and he died before he could do it). And let's be realistic, the worldbuilding of ASOIAF is nowhere near as complex as the worldbuilding of LOTR - which is fine, it's just ridiculous how many times Martin brings up Tolkien in a context (worldbuilding), where his work is not even close to his.
Brandon Sanderson has probably already written out a rough outline for the last two books after having surreptitiously given his contact info to GRRM's next of kin.
@@El1society Well, assuming his next of kin are allergic to money and follow those instructions, at this point a more disciplined author of sufficient talent can probably make a satisfying conclusion without whatever notes he actually has written down, even if it ends up diverting significantly from his vision of Hotpie eventually winning the Iron Throne, or whatever.
If Martin wants to be on the Mt Rushmore of fantasy authors he must finish the books. Tolkien wouldn't be known, or if he was it would only be as a joke if he stopped at The Two Towers and not written Return of the King.
So the only thing I will say to correct you there is that lord of the rings is actually a single book that was split into three volumes by the publisher, but you are correct in the sentiment, if Tolkien had only gone halfsies on LoTR it would’ve been forgotten and/or never picked up in the first place despite how rich the world was
It should be noted that a significant amount of what gives JRRT his awe-inspiring clout is the world-building material that makes up the Silmarillion, which JRRT did not finish and which was not published until after his death.
@@PrometheanRising That is true, but reading the full mythology is not and never has been necessary to enjoy the two novels set in that world. Lord of the Rings had an ending that was complete and satisfying; as a novel it stands on its own. ASoIaF is a story that, as it exists now, has a beginning and a middle but no end. If you're going to make a comparison, the Silmarillion is more like Fire and Blood, Tales of Dunk and Egg, and all the other side projects GRRM has pursued instead of finishing the story that got anyone interested in the world to begin with.
@@PrometheanRisingThe Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit were both huge hits before The Silmarillion was published. Moreover Tolkien wrote that for HIMSELF. He never intended to have it published after his publisher initially said no to it. These are not comparable.
I disagree. Look at Frank Herbert and the impact he had on science fiction, he famously never finished the seventh book. GRRM has already made enough impact to have many compare him to Tolkien.
Sadly he also seems to take extreme levels of ownership of it, and has stated he does not intend to let anyone inherit it after he retires or passes away. He should clearly take on one or more co-writers to finish it, where he can direct the story, but doesn't need to sit and work out every detail by himself
@@SingingSealRiana, ah yes. Two tv show producers are the same as a dedicated assistant team that can listen to ideas and have a searchable database of the released works and unreleased thoughts at their fingertips. I’m not even a Game of Thrones fan; I just feel for y’all. And GRRM makes even me mad
he should pass it to brandon fucking sanderson and we'll have the final 2 books in a year. Also 12 secret spinoffs on the year after, a board game and a RPG campaign setting
@@Nortarachanges why is it so unreasonable for a writer to not want anyone else to touch HIS work. the moment you have someone else writing it its not your work anymore. that position is not any more unreasonable than the opposite scenario. any animosity is only fueled by a weird ass sense of entitlement. noones life is dependant on the finishing of these books.
I honestly believe that there’s still a very strong core of dedicated fans. But after the tv show, the lies, the delays, the “if I don’t have it by NZ-con you can arrest me”, and the fact he was locked inside for 1-2 years and isn’t even close to finishing it I believe most people have lost interest. Before I would scour the internet in 2017-2019 looking for a crumb to nibble on and now I barely care. If it comes out, cool, but that fire of passion that was burning inside is gone. WoW, like PJ said will be underwhelming and will only leave fans thinking “how can he wrap this up in 1 more book?” and then we’ll be either left with another 10+ year wait or it will just never be released.
I lost interest. I want to watch House of the dragon because i liked the first season and I watched that with my family every sunday. As a composer who tends to procrastinate, GRR is a lesson and inspiration for I want to finish stuff and publish nor spending my whole life working on something that would not see the light.
I'm really more interested in the world than I am the story any more, idgaf who wins, its been so long I've imagined all possibilities multiple times, I'd rather more games and shows than the book now, and that's really sad for one of my favourite authors
If you've already read through the first 5 installments you're hardly gonna miss the latest one if you enjoyed the first ones. It seems like people are losing interest because less people are talking about it but everyone is just waiting now. If anything the books have gained more of an audience what with all the new fans the finished the show and wanted to start the books
I always said that if we don't get the book post-pandemic we will never get it. Martin will never be less busy with other projects than he was during the pandemic.
He's 75 and I imagine he will care about wanting to release it before he dies, legacy and what not. That may accelerate it but he can realistically live 20 more years so yea, probably not gonna see anything until the 2040s
Right? Enough with the "it's nearly done" bs and admit that it's over and we're moving on to other things. No one is watching HotD in the hopes of him finishing ASoIaF. His fanbase isn't going to desert him. We'd just love some honesty.
"Can you imagine. aworld where Tolkien became too distracted with Elvish History and side projects to create The Return of the King?" Oh I can imagine. That's kind of what happened, and it's why we have the Appendices at the end of Return; because he DID get distracted. But I see your point, after all Tolkien DID finish, after all.
And partially because Tolkien had an epilogue in mind, of Sam telling his children the story and revealing what happened to everyone later. But that was scrapped and he just let the appendices tell the basic history of the world up to Lord of the Rings and then had the epilogue tossed in there as well.
No he did not get distracted. The reason for the appendices is purely because of a papaer shortage during the time of the world wars, it was a massive risk to publish a regular novel and expect to get your money back let alone the hundreds of pages that exists in the LOTR trilogy, tolkien wanted to make them longer
Except return of the king was published less than a year after two towers. The gap between two towers and it was longe than between fellowship and two towers, but it's hardly comparable to anything Martin has done.
@@colossusslayer1234 yeah that's true. I honestly need to know what he runs on because Jesus Christ, I tried writing a story and got writers block not 2 paragraphs in .
I think Brandersons prose ends up being kinda plain as a result. It is BY NO MEANS bad. His prose is somewhat plain by design by his own admission. Him churning out so many books and focusing a lot on the quality of the storytelling and technical structure and payoff means that it may not always have the most beautiful and poetically haunting sentences that shape literature itself. But there are still some raw ass lines and moments
Martin has never finished anything he's ever started. That's made clear from his Dreamsongs career spanning anthology. The closest he ever came to a serial success prior to GoT was Wildcards, and the only reason that happened is because he was editing, and not writing. plus, he had to work with writers with real commitment and who understand the relationship they've built with their fans
If we have to wait until the books become public domain before someone can complete the series and distribute their work, the overwhelming majority of people alive today who are old enough to be able to read his work won't get a book ending within their lifetime. I believe the delay for a work to enter public domain is the lifespan of the author plus 70 years. If memory serves, we have Disney to thank for that (may they choke on Mickey Mouse). Hopefully, whoever gets the estate after him and his wife pass on will get greedy. The downside of that scenario would be that it is a gamble whether whoever they hire to complete the series will get it right. Once it becomes public domain, then anyone can try their hand and someone is bound to get it right. I don't care how much of a fan you are of GRRM, nobody is so special and unique that they cannot at least be replicated or even surpassed.
As an artist myself, even if I have a *really smaller audience*, I do feel this on a personal level. Yes, it's true that forcing art isn't exactly the best choice, and the fans are more than willing to wait just a bit more for the product to be really perfect. But you can't procastinate this much in front of them, expecially after you're able to EXCLUSIVELY work on your project bc your fans paid for all you now own. Fans can be toxic from time to time, but the majority is still supportive, but you have to pay back the support, at least up until what dragged them in ends.
Would putting out a sub par product be "paying back the support"? The thing is, Martin is able to work exclusively on TWOW, but why should he if he doesn't want to? Why should he burn himself out on finishing a single product when he has more than one passion in life? TWOW and ADOF will be finished when he feels like he has finished them and that they are good enough to be released.
@@SaetherOfficialif he has lost interest, that's ok. None of us owns him, but at least he should be honest with the people who has supported his work and let someone else to finish the damn thing.
It's ironic that George R.R. Martin looks down on Game of Thrones fanfics yet they're far enjoyable to read than his own novels that he will never finish.
@@kanyewestt3 yes he's said he things fan fictions are disrespectful and lazy, because authors should come up with their own stories. This is of course, stupid and idiotic. People wouldn't write fanfics if they didn't massively respect the work they riff on. And fanfic writing isn't lazy either, I've seen a lot of really well written fanfics. Fanfics are just easier at getting a start with writing.
@@pax6833 bro fanfics are just what-if’s. Like what if something else happened rather than the events of GoT and how it wouldve affected the story and the ending. Really GRRM?? 💀💀
Fanfics are also good at getting into character’s heads for visual media like shows, movies, and comics. The shift in medium allows you to try and understand a character more in the what-if scenarios fanfics provide Also many legends and myths are often cultural fanfics lmao. King Arthur literary tradition is a compendium of different authors from different times and places putting their spin on earlier written stories of characters that were original Welsh. Fanfic is as old as dirt, and as long as you’re not trying to make money off a copyrighted intelectual property that isn’t yours, there’s no issues with it
I think one of the only things GRRM has ever actually finished was the overarching world of Elden Ring, and even that was something he did with a lot of notes from Miyazaki himself on what kind of world it should be.
From interviews from both it looks like Miyazaki gave him a brief rundown of what they needed and he delivered about 20 pages of a short story and this story probably laid out the names and relationships of all the Demigods and how the Shattering happened which is all ripped off Norse Mythology. Erdtree = Yggdrasil. The Shattering = Ragnarok. Everything from there is FromSoftware
It was just more of the same 'fantasy world is vague and mysterious for the sake of it' rubbish they've been recycling since the SoulsBorne series started
I’m the author of a series, and this whole “authors don’t owe you” attitude is ridiculous. If I proclaim “I have a story to tell!” and I ask you to invest your time, money, and emotions in my story, I don’t get to just walk away in the middle of telling it. Even if you weren’t paying me, I’ve still promised you something in exchange for your investment of time and emotion, you’ve paid your half of the bargain, and I absolutely do owe you mine.
Totally. I really don’t know why this is so difficult for some people to understand. I am an artist as well. Obviously nowhere near the level of GRRM, but I would absolutely feel a duty to myself and the rest of the world to finish a project if the first three quarters of it became one of the most popular works in its genre.
Hear, hear! If you can't do it, you can't do it, but at that point, the least you can do is accept that *you let people down*, and their unhappiness is legitimate.
Exactly. If I were in his situation, I would be sharing my struggle with the fans and being transparent about the possibility of not finishing it. Stringing them along for so many years claiming everything's fine while working on dozens of other projects is ridiculous.@@jahinxalmothsunsmile4374
I also agree with this. I’m still an amateur author just starting out but I would like to think that I wouldn’t do this to fans. If it’s that difficult to finish your story then either just admit it or GET SOME PEOPLE TO HELP YOU!
there is no doubt in the world that George is in the top five most famous authors alive today... at least in the english speaking world. that is an acomplishment so so SO few people will ever have. and he got there because of a series he doesn't care to finish. It's absolutely okay that we don't respect his unending decisions to work on other things
I'm not sure he really deserves it to be honest. In hindsight. He has treated his fans terribly and the quality of his works haven't aged well. He has no real plan or outlines for the books, which was revealed through his interviews where you find out he has just let the story take him where it goes, and then he literally makes up the history after the fact to match something he wanted to put in a scene. You then see the original story outline for ASOIAF, a trilogy that looks nothing like what he has brought out. And then you look at the character bloat that occurs at a feast for crows. He didn't have a plan or couldn't stick to a plan. At first, this led to an interesting and unpredictable story (because he didn't even know where he was going), but ultimately led to it getting completely out of control and making it impossible for him to finish. All of this is ultimately underlined with no broader message to his works, just cynicism. Even if it got finished, it wouldn't go down with great works like LOTR, as it doesn't really have the depth. The fandom is currently held up by streams of theorising and speculation that will dissolve the moment he actually releases the book. Is he a great writer? Yes. But there are much better, much more professional, disciplined, skilled and deep writers out there who don't get nearly as much credit because they didn't get a high-budget HBO contract.
Until this video crossed my feed just now, I had completely forgotten. There was a time I new every bit of history and lore of this world. I no longer care. It’s an empty realization.
I've started reading fire and blood because my friend told me chronologically it comes before ASOIAF and I must say this guy can write. Learning more about the Targaryen reign and the range of good and bad kings is fun to read. It almost makes me not wanna read the main books until the final two are published.
Exactly, the guy is a really good writer and nobody forced these fans to buy his books. The lore is simply amazing. Balerion and the princess Aerea is a great example of a small but wildly interesting story. House of the Dragon takes a deeper dive on a section of Fire and Blood, and I really liked House of the Dragon season 1.
No matter if he ends up finishing the series or not (which he probably won’t) I’d still definitely say it’s worth reading the five books already published. They’re amazing, and the experience of reading them, although bittersweet since we almost know for certain they’ll never be finished, is still worth your time.
I would very strongly advise not reading the first five ASOIAF books if the last two don't come out. The wondering about what happens ends up being worse than the enjoyment you will get out of reading the first five.
He wrote himself into a corner and now he cant figure the way out. I'm not at all pleased with this man. He's teased us long enough and I feel like he no longer gives a shit about us. Yeah, i'm pissed at him bcz he couldve finished it if he really wanted to. Like this guy said.. Finish the damn book already!
Exactly, im actualy thinking that S08 is close to what George would have made it and now he have panic as he have nothing to fall back on as his ideas was as bad or even worse then DnD
@@peternystrom921I think this is true. But I’m sure most fans of the books are fine if this happened because George would write it properly, it wouldn’t be the mess of seasons 6-8. It’s not the ending we care about it’s the journey
Aren’t the statements “he wrote himself into a corner and now he can’t write himself out” and “he could have finished it if he wanted to” mutually exclusive?
The issue is that he clearly can't finish the books. If he could he would have done it already but he keeps saying he's working on it when he's clearly lying
@@Ashbrash1998 Dany going Mad Queen (all foreshadowed in visions in Season 4), Bran becoming king and Jon killing Dany is likely all canon though. Tbh, even if it was done better ... I'm not sure it's really that interesting or satisfying. Jon becoming the leader of the Wildlings was fitting, I suppose. But who goes through this series and thinks "Yeah, Bran should be king. That would be a brilliant ending"?
This is the result of being a ‘gardener’, as he puts it. Exploration works for a first draft, but you would have to write the first draft for the entire series for that to work, and then see where you went wrong and write an outline for the second draft before trying again. You cannot write without an outline in a complex fantasy story. He has written himself into a corner that we are yet unable to see. Years ago, I read in some kind of interview that he often forgets which characters are dead and he needs others to read over his work and tell him ‘hey why is this character in this scene, he isn’t even alive’. Plus, it is stated that he killed off a character too early that was crucial to the endgame or the story. That’s genuinely absurd and it would never have happened if he had any foresight at all. All he knows is the history of his world, while ASOIAF requires him to know the future as well. I have very little respect for him as an artist. His will is that, when he dies, the story dies with him, and nobody is allowed to finish it. And yes, he will die before he finishes The Winds of Winter, and he will never reach A Dream of Spring. It’s asinine that he refuses to allow another author to help him see this through for the fans, who have made him a millionaire. The fact that he keeps lying about planning to finish it, is just the cherry on top. He got the cash, and gets to spend his last days watching the history of his world be adapted for the screen. That’s all he cares about.
Like when he said that he regretted killing Robb before Robb even got a chance to have his own POV. Like, I get it. Red wedding is a masterpiece of subverting expectations but that's the only one thing that came out of it. It didn't further character arcs of anyone, except for maybe Catelyn. Or Oberyn's death. GRRM overexplaining how dangerous and cunning Oberyn was to the whole political schemes...after he's long dead.
The thing about him not wanting anyone else to finish it when he dies, I personally believe there’s too much money at stake to not publish SOMETHING. Would it get the same fanfare and publicity it would have got when GoT was airing or just wrapping up? No. But I’m willing to bet is a guaranteed couple million copies sold easily. And the publisher will offer the eatate a cheque with a lot of zeros for them to let someone else finish it and someone will agree. At the end of the day, money talks
@@Souten66exactly. 😂 I came to say this exact same thing. The man has no heirs. Hell we literally got a Gone with the Wind sequel SIGNED off by direct family members, George is an absolute fool is he thinks some publishing company/HBO won’t pump out the final books. Of course “from notes the author left behind”. 😂😂. I mean.. how many Dune novels have we gotten “based on notes left behind by Frank Herbert” ? 😂😂
Personally I think what we have seen is one of George’s biggest strengths as a writer become one of his biggest weaknesses. He describes himself as a Gardner writer type. This is great for letting things grow organically, and has enabled characters and stories in all of the ways that made the story as engaging as it is. But it’s also what’s it such a mess. What’s more George has spoken repeatedly about how “history never repeats but it rhymes” including in his fictional universe, so in order for him to get to the ending he wants he needs to see where his story will end up, he needs to see where it has been. That may seem crazy but there’s lots of foreshadowing of Aegon being a secret blackfyre, the blackfyres and the blackfyre rebellion being stuff shown in the dunk and egg novels of that events in Winds of Winter will echo events from stuff like the Princess and The Queen where there was a huge war where dragons fought dragons “and everywhere the dragons danced, people died.” The problem is for fans who are only interested in the core Ice and fire books all of this extra stuff is a distraction. And I don’t really blame them for feeling that way.
@@mikefrost5575 yep king's dark tower series is an epic on an equal if not larger scale than ASOIAF and the amount of time king took between each book is fairly reasonable. Not to mention he cranks out single books almost every year now
To be that sounds like asking for a cold hot shower. A person with really good discipline wouldn't write ASOIAF. That is the kind of story only a person with a lot of creativity and very little work ethics can even think of writing. Many fans have voiced this, but 2 books are not enough to close the series, conservatively we would need at least another 2, meaning this series would have 9 MAIN books. Tell any diligent writer you're going to start a 9 book series and they will laugh at your face.
@@ggwp638BC The main wheel of time series is 14 books. The longest gap of time between any 2 releases in the series is 4 years and that's because the author DIED
I think the story is too complex for one author to keep all parts together. GRRM needs a massive support staff like Ken Follett. They could write different versions of scenes and George could pick one he likes. Another option is that Brandon Sanderson finishes it like the Wheel of Time. Sanderson said he would not do this again but he has the skill to do it in 3 years.
Ugh. I hate Sanderson writing. That said: he’s the exact opposite of George. George: “yep making good progress on it”: absolutely nothing done. Sanderson: “I would never take over and finish ASOIAF”: already has completed, proof read, fully ready to go manuscripts along with a sequel series ready to go. 😂
@@iwritechecksatthegrocerystoreSay what you will armor Sanderson, but he did more to make Egwene Al'Vere actually live up to her hype and not just be a shrill idiot who did literally the most obviously stupid possible action at practically every given opportunity than Robert Jordan did in every other book in the series.
I agree with everything you say in this video. While an author obviously doesn't "owe" his readers anything, he should at least be openly communicative with a fanbase that has gotten invested in a story and cares about an ending. I think what bothers a lot of fans isn't that Martin is taking so long; it's his dismissive attitude. It feels like he has lost his enthusiasm in finishing ASOIAF but he doesn't want to openly admit this.
there’s so many loose threads. usually i don’t really care at all about stuff like this but his problem is so specific. like at least give the mass of readers some answers or more information or teaser chapters. i don’t even really like got and i’ve never fully finished it, it just feels so ridiculous that the minute he got rich and famous, he abandoned the thing that got him there and spent a decade alienating fans. just be honest or don’t hold onto your secrets like they’re so precious, i’m not sure but i’ve heard he doesn’t want the story to be continued if he doesn’t finish it and he doesn’t want information released which is so specifically annoying and stupid.
Yeah, the dismissive attitude is the worst....in all the GRRM interviews Ive seen, he always fondly recollects about being a huge comic fan when he was a kid, writing letters to the comic books, etc....but then when the tables are turned and fans of ASOIAF show the same amount of interest, he's like: "What's wrong with you? Its just a book, stop being so serious"....he can reminisce about his own me memories as a fan, but then when it comes time to address his fans, it's like we're an annoyance that he's condescending towards. Sure, he doesn't "owe us anything", but generally speaking, we agree that decent humans should be honest, direct, and not lead people on, and I feel like he's ignored all of that.
@@ac-ye6sfthe loose threads part is spot on. There’s no conceivable way he wraps it all up in two books and provides a satisfying ending for everyone. I remember GRRM said that he received letters from fans saying very minor characters were their favourite. There’s not enough time to include everyone which begs the question, why did he even mention so many minor characters in the first place.
@@johnlocke4715 i know a lot of people enjoy his storytelling cause it feels so large and i can understand how someone with different taste than me can find that incredibly compelling, he’s not lacking in ideas, and i LOVE large worldbuilding, but he just tosses everything to the wall and crosses his fingers hoping all of it will stick and that’s just messy (to me). it doesn’t make for compelling storytelling when you’re taking me from moment to moment, person to person, place to place, but never fulfilling promises made to your audience and wrapping things up neatly. like NOT A SINGLE thing feels solid and done and coherent from beginning to end. it was too much, too fast, too short for what what it’s trying to be, TOO SLOW. not worth finishing reading to me, so i never have. ik lots of people like it and can accept half-done things but i despise stories like that, all the effort feels pointless if i’m not getting any answers or conclusions, it feels more like creative infodumping than coherent storytelling.
I’m only mad that my Grandmother, who’s read all the books and got me into the series, probably won’t see the end of the book series because Martin is slacking off but even then that feeling is fleeting. I’m just thankful for the creation of A song of Ice and Fire tbh.
He could literally hire a team of people to Help him finish the books. like it or not this series is George's Magnum opus it's what he will be remembered for
@Lalvon_Zelpharr for better or worse tho. No doubt he'll go down I history, but he may not like it. If he dies with the series unfinished, and as he's said he wants no one to finish it if he dies unlike Robert Jordan did, he may be remembered as the reason to never ever be a garden style writer. He might be remembered as a "don't be this kinda author" who's remembered for creating a great pitch then walking out when everyone leans forward.
He knows people will pick it apart and some will hate it but it’s the fact that he’s not honest and lies about things, he needs to acknowledge that he can’t finish GoTs in less than two books, he needs to understand he can’t finish all the plots in two books but he refuses to. Just be honest with us and say “HEY I can’t finish it in two books but here’s what I have so far and I’ll release it” something like that
My guess is the GoT ending was, more or less, exactly what he had in mind and people hated it. So now he is stuck between writing his original vision, and revealing that the show runners weren't as much of the problem as he and others tried to claim, or coming up with something better.
Imagine if he dies before the book is finished, there would be thousands of people dedicating their time to finishing it themselves and none will be regarded as good as Martin's "perfect" version
This is honestly the most likely outcome. The guy is 75 years old and he's been working on the sixth book for 13 years so far, and last year he said it was only 3/4 of the way done, and there's still supposed to be a seventh. It seems unlikely that he finishes them in his life.
George R. R. Martin doesn't owe us a book. But I also don't owe him continued interest. At this point, I have no desire to finish reading the series. I literally don't care how it ends.
It is been fucking years since I have read the last books,I was in high school in that time now I have a fucking job graduated from medical school like babe I cant remember most of the plotlines. If it released and I read it I will be fucking confused half of the time if I dont reread all of it again.
If you sell us a SERIES.... then yes, you DO owe us the ending. Unless you die. Who would have picked up his damn books if they knew that it was a road to nowhere?
If an artist doesn't care about the fans love of the art then maybe, just maybe, the artist shouldn't release his art as a product. That pile of money he sits on doesn't materialise out of thin air. He _is_ a perpetual procrastinator and he _did_ have a huge part in why GoT fell apart. If won't get into the semantics about "owing" the fans becaue it goes deeper than that.
If someone loves something an artist does is that artist suddenly beholden to their fan's every wish? George owes it to the fans to be honest and that's all. He released books that people liked, they paid for those books and got what they paid for end of story. I'm not sure what principles lead you to think that George morally owes his fans a book.
@@nmdubstudios6850If George said upfront in book 1 that we will never get a conclusion to the book series do you think anyone would have continued to support the series? He made an implied promise to the fans when he decided to release the story in 7 volumes: support each of my volumesand you will get an ending to this story. The fans kept their end. He did not. No he doesn't legally owe anyone anything, but you cane owe someone without it having a legal or financial element to it.
@@OldWestGunslinger-vs9mx If people knew that George wouldn’t finish the series I have no doubt that ASOIAF would have a fraction of the popularity it does today. However, I don’t see how that proves any broader point about what is owed to the fans. With any series, there’s always a risk that it won’t conclude for one reason or another, and that’s a risk that a discerning consumer has to be ready to take. Is it disappointing that we’ll probably never see a conclusion to ASOIAF? Obviously. Do I have my fair share of frustrations with George? Yes. Has George made bad decisions and horribly inaccurate estimates? Absolutely. All of that said, though, I don’t think any of that morally obligates him to release TWOW. I think we as fans retroactively decide that our time spent with this series wasn’t worth it now that it’s more likely than not that we’ll never see a conclusion, but the truth is no one cares about an end to a series that was never worthwhile in the first place. Conclusion or no, the books that already exist stand on their own merit, and in the regard I don’t believe that any of the fans have been robbed of their time or money. The only thing George owes is transparency.
@nmdubstudios6850 There's a difference between a writer dying or falling ill and not being able to complete his work, and simply never finishing because you are a lazy slob. He isn't finishing the books because he doesn't want to, and there is the difference. He is a liar, and he absolutely owes it to the fans considering his life of luxury is entirely a result of his promises to finish the series.
@@OldWestGunslinger-vs9mx The idea that George doesn't want to finish his Magnum Opus is pretty laughable. What's much more likely is that just he doesn't know how to finish the series. Every fanboy acts like they know George personally and throws out these wild theories because they're mad. I couldn't imagine anything less likely than George not wanting to cement his legacy. George's life of luxury is mostly from the show, which was made with the understanding that the books would almost certainly not be finished by the conclusion of the show. So, no, his life of luxury is not 'entirely a result of his promises to finish the series' lmao. I wish you could see from an outside perspective how hysterical and entitled you people come across as.
My head cannon is that he finished the books and is going to publish posthumously. I'm just lying to myself but hey, it's an answer. He hasn't provided me one of those.
King Bran is the ending. D&D didn't just make that up. If they could have chosen the winner of the GOT, they'd have chosen the infinitely more popular Daenerys and make a lot of fans happy. Granted that King Bran is the endgame and given the backlash to it, he may decide to publish until after his death. If true. Get ready for the meltdowns when he passes as the diehard fans and theorists realize how wrong they were.
@@Mae-hx2ml King Bran is a critique of royal bloodlines and human rulers because of all their crap that range from basic human flaws to narcissisism to power hunger to outright madness Bran isn't human anymore, he's the Hive Mind of all the Children of the Forest and humans who ever died. He has all their knowledge, all their wisdom, all their spells, and he knows of all their mistakes and how to avoid them but in the act of gaining this Godhead he lost his own humanity. That is what the author of the books GRRM was going for but the show fucked up by glossing over the major fantasy elements It is meant to be a damning indictment against human rulers and perhaps against humanity itself. Perhaps the idea is that power is like an acid, and in the same way acid will corrode away a bar of iron, power tends to corrode away the character and morals of every human ruler (assuming they had any to begin with) and how long exposure to too much unchecked power can errode ones character and morals to the point that you ending up with an inspiring strong passionate woman going from caring about the lot of the less fortunate even when it goes against her self interest and liberating thousands of slaves to her burning down a city in her deluded and narcissistic quest for Utopia. This is the effect Power and the Quest for Power has on humans that you have an individual who cares so much for justice that it becomes his identity, committing the most unjust actions to seize power and bring about their Just World. ( _Looking at you Stannis_ ) It is the established ideas of Right to power by Bloodline and Conquest that King Bran is meant to critique just as Jon Snow's story is meant to critique the Hero's Journey to Kingship. The author GRRM is opposed to this idea that just because you're brave and strong and defeated a great evil that you're fit to rule. That what was Robert's whole storyline meant to critique. Here you have a young warrior of noble blood throwing down the undisputed evil in the Mad King and ascending to Power. Does that mean that he would make a good King?! No, the very thing that made him a good warrior made him a bad king Ned Stark was an undisputedly Good and Honorable man. Did that make him a perfect ruler?! No because ruling requires you to do evil things at times (see Machiavelli) and Ned was unwilling to do those things This reminds me of the question that Tywin Lannister put to Tommen about what makes a great ruler and Tywin was 100% right that it was wisdom. Bran makes the best King because he has that wisdom, or if he doesn't, he has to means to get it, being possessed as he is of all the life stories of everyone who ever lived, all their memories, triumphs and mistakes. At anytime he is possession of knowlege that most rulers would kill for and because he is mostly devoid of emotion, he will not be ruled by them as weak human rulers are prone to, but he will be ruled by reason. If that doesn't make him a good King (I think he will be), it will at least make him a frighteningly competent one. And that's what the Seven Kingdoms will need to heal. Did the show rush the series and didn't explore the true power of greensight like in the books? Yes! But I think the main problem with Game of Thrones is that people mischaracterize this show. They have this set idea in their minds about how the story should end but don't understand that Game of Thrones and the A Song of Ice and Fire books are a _criticism_ of popular fantasy tropes and they get mad when things don't end they think it should end
6:28 that almost happened and in a different way did. J.R.R. Tolkien had plans to publish more works expanding on his lore and worldbuilding out of pure fan service and pedantry, but he got distracted and wrote notes for 20 years until he died. Christopher Tolkien picked up the mantle and went on to put his fathers ramblings, divorced of context, into a readable format culminating in the publishing of numerous books in both their names, most notably Unfinished tales parts 1 & 2 and the famous Silmarillion. That also took nearly another 20 years considering Christopher attempted the task for a long while before Professor Tolkien died. It's easy to forget that Tolkien's writings started in 1908 and continued to 1956, and that was just during his lifetime! The man went through half his life and two world wars in the build up to writing The Lord of the Rings anthology. (It was originally 6 books, 2 to a volume.) The Hobbit was published in 1934, so people had to wait a long bloody time. Now I'm no particular fan of Mr. Martin, I just have to say that living through this kind of 2nd half of life's works in real time in this day and age, yeah it is going to feel like forever. A lot of people have lived, read some of his work and died before getting a sequel, because that is life and this happens. That is no particular fault of George and I sincerely doubt he expected and prepared for the journey that his success would bring him. Who would? He probably could have done better, but either way this kind of huge writing undertaking was always going to be a bumpy journey without guarantee of success in any regard.
There a few reasons I gave up on Martin and ASOIAF, to the point I sold my books about a year ago. 1: He's never going to finish. This, while unfortunate, wouldn't be so bad, if not for 2: He refuses to allow the series to be passed on to someone else, even in the event of his death. This is a huge slap in the face of all fans of his series and a pretty big, prick move. However, it was the last thing that made me decide to get rid of my books. 3: When his fans asked/begged him, again, to finish the series about a year ago, he insulted and attacked them. Though I can't remember what precisely he said, it was enough for me to declare that he's a massive A-hole, who won't ever finish the series that gave him his fame and wealth, and that I was done with the series and any spin offs, which works out just fine as it opened up a huge space on my shelves for other, finished works.
@@iwritechecksatthegrocerystoreyes it absolutely will. His reputation is already dripping down the drain. I do not hold him in the same regard as I did 10 years ago, and he has definitely fallen fast off my list of favourite authors. I know I am not alone.
@@andrewhooper5933 oh sorry. 😂 i meant there’s no way his books won’t be finished by someone else. I definitely agree with you. I should’ve been way more clear 😂. Edit: yea you’re not alone. I mean help I’m watching at commenting on UA-cam videos about this shit. Obviously I’m not like “ohhh let him take his time. “😂. Fuck that I saw Logan Lucky.
worst part is he has no excuses. Hes said for years hes 75% done. 25% left to do. Feast and Dance were both supposed to be one book. Why doesnt he just commit to releasing a good chunk of what hes already done. Call one book Winds of Winter and devote the next entirely to The Long Night and call it that.
Yeah i'm sure not having access to a piece of media because an author works at it's own pace totally justifies him being accountable even tho you don't know anything about his personal life
@e-tean-son4146 That is true, I don't know anything about his Personal life. But saying you're playing devil's advocate would be an understatement. It's been 12 years. And it's not like something in his personal life is keeping him from doing other things. Like being on talk shows, Where he gets his ego sucked off, and he's constantly talking about how he's working with HBO on new series, and stuff. So that's not a valid excuse, dude.
Among fiction writers, there's a basic concept of how to write a story called "promises and payoffs." It's a corollary to Chekhov's gun. You put hints and clues near the beginning, and start unwrapping them for the audience as you get closer to the end. On some level, I think he knows this, but for whatever reason, he's all promise and very little payoff. I think he doesn't know how to wrap a story at all, hence deaths of major characters that seem to come out of the blue. That's part of what made it so exciting at first, but it's not just a technique for him, he's only writing at one end of a story and doesn't know how to get to the other end. He's never going to finish it even if another book came out.
The books would probably have been finished ages ago if Martin spent less time writing of things to come in them, and more time actually bringing them about. Seriously, how many freaking ancient prophesies and foreboding dreams do we have to go through that are all so vague and ambiguous that they could mean absolutely anything?
Actually, Tolken was obsessed with Elvlish history. See the Simillarian that was published after his death, which was basically him nerding out all over elves and the entirety of the mythos of his creation.
It's a fan's right to be angry. Whether the artist/author doesn't deliver, whether the fan is not happy with the final product, a fan has every right to be upset at the outcome of a medium that they have invested in, whether monetarily or emotionally. It's also a respect thing because instead of saying things like "This is my story to tell, and I want to make sure I get everything just right." He comes out with false promises and gets angry at fans, saying "I don't owe you anything." I fear that Martin has dug himself into a hole that he won't be able to make it out of.
George is subverting your expectations by not finishing the books. It's like the red wedding, but in real life. Truly, the man's genius cannot be comprehended by mere mortals.
Well, author died so I can understand that. He was still releasing chapters up to his death. Martin, feels like he just abandoned the project to work on other stuff cuz he wrote himself into a corner and can't untangle the web to complete it.
Agreed. If you can't have a conclusion when you create many plot points, it shows your weakness as a writer that you have ideas that go nowhere. It's just a bunch of misdirection with no reasoning for happening.
It's weird as hell how these authors adapted this mindset that their fans should not be upset at them. Yes, fans can be upset, be critical, lose interest in an author,...You knew that would happen the moment you picked up a pen to start a work. Stop trying to tell them what they can or cannot think, you have no control on their thoughts.
I used to be obsessed with ASOIAF, (don't really care for House of the Dragon, I've always been most interested in the mysteries surround the North, the Children, the Night's King, etc so I would have preferred Blood Moon), but over the last four years my interest has dwindled to the part where I honestly don't even think about it anymore and don't really care if the books come out, because I've already accepted the fact that they'll never come out. I used to be mad, then frustrated, then disappointed, then I just got over it...haven't listed to Radio Westeros (the best ASOIAF Podcast ever made) in over a year, haven't watched House of the Dragon besides the first episode, and haven't listened to the audiobooks to go to bed too in about three years (I used to listen to them every night to go to sleep)...and until this video popped up in my feed, I hadn't even thought about ASOIAF in close to a year. I just don't care anymore, and while I want to say "that's the saddest part of all"....I don't even care enough anymore to feel sad about it.
I'll go one step further: everyone who consumed all the spin-off material is also to blame. He distracted himself, because you all allowed him to do it profitably.
I've already accepted Dream of Spring isn't coming out, but damn it it's looking like Winds will never happen either. I wish he'd just release what he has at this point.
People who have George's mindset in this instance genuinely come across as aliens. "How could you possibly experience joy when you're angry and making videos about things you dislike?" Like...these people genuinely don't understand the concept of catharsis. It's honestly hilarious!
It is completely fair to consider someone who releases a series of books with no intention of finishing them as a second rate hack. Coming out and blaming fascists for the inability to write is just the icing on the cake really.
Having a Ph.D. in psychology, I can accurately predict whether Martin will finish his book, and the answer is no. He's likely in a state of serious procrastination. Procrastination tends to worsen with difficult tasks, and Martin faces a colossal challenge in tying together the intricate storylines and characters from his first five books. Compared to engaging in side projects and attending conventions, writing 'Winds of Winter' is much more daunting. He's a 'gardener' writer, meaning the story evolves as he writes, which, with so many elements to consider, makes concluding the series satisfactorily extremely challenging and stressful. Overcoming such challenges is possible, but given Martin's past record and lack of extreme discipline, it's unlikely without significant changes. He would need to abandon all side projects and isolate himself for 1-2 years, focusing solely on the book. Currently, we're not seeing any behavior that even remotely suggests this approach.
Look at here everybody, this guy has a Ph.D in psychology-. Look bro, you are onto something with the whole Gardener type of writer thing but you are missing the one major issue. It seems he is able to write everything else except his main series and I think the problem comes from the GoT show. He himself and the showrunners have mentioned in the past that George was forced to give up his ending, everything. To a gardener that is an execution because he already feels like the story is told to a degree. Does it mean he will come to the same conclusion as the show, not really, but I think it is extremely likely since the clues are there, and while there are differences, I do believe he was forced by contract to give them a summary of every character's story. Going off by that and his interviews it is safe to say that this has triggered his writer's block, because he as a gardener has already seen a version of his ending on tv and chances are he is worried by the reaction. And just to give you an example of how the clues are there regarding the ending of the show being his. My mom who just finished reading the first book, without ever watching or seeing the show, she doesn't browse the internet at all. Her words regarding Daenerys Targaryen were "I think she will f*** them all up" and *I did not think she was acting as a just ruler, not at all* this after she burned the witch. Considering Daenerys being her favorite character but still recodnizing her tyranical qualities I could say that yeah, the ending from the show is very much George's ending just executed poorly. Another safe conclusion is that he is tired of it, the story, everything. He is up there in years and he has all the success in the world, It is not too crazy to see how he might want to enjoy that instead of constantly writing this one story. And considering he is actually working and not sitting still, it is highly possible that he wants to move on. Not to mention his book seems a nightmare to finish, way too many characters, way too long, it would make the smartest guy lose his mind. Lack of dicipline ain't it in my opinion, there are many but this isn't it.
Don't think he is procastinating, he just make Elden Ring, i thing he just, for some reason, probably linked to anxiety or for the sheer size of the task can't finish-it.
What you said here is pretty reasonable, but god I hope it's not lost on you how insufferable it is to open all of that with, "Having a Ph.D. in psychology."
EDIT for clarity: I am also very frustrated with George's procrastination. That said, I strongly dislike the way you started with "Having a Ph.D. in psychology," and then engaged in an extremely surface-level analysis that requires virtually no education in psychology. Most of your assumptions could certainly be worse, but you're trying to make your opinion much more definitive that it deserves to be. You don't have anywhere near enough information about the man's psyche to make any determination of what he would NEED to change to finish Winds. I agree the man's got a problem, but you're talking out of your rear end when it comes to what you think you know about him -- specifically, you're placing him in the broadest procrastinating stereotype you can think of, to avoid having to do a deeper analysis. Either you don't actually have a Ph.D. which is why you didn't display a professional level of psych knowledge; or you do have a Ph.D. and you know that you don't have enough information to confidently make the conclusions you made. Either way, you're devaluing the field of psychology by prefacing your overly broad analysis with your alleged credentials.
I think the issue is that rather than condensing the story in feast and dance, he expanded it rapidly. Now he has the crazy task to fit all the threads into one single story. Rough
Exactly. I already really disliked his latest book of the series because I felt like he expanded too much, added too many new characters (I just say.... Quentin....... 😐) And too many new plotlines. I was no longer able to see the golden thread in his story. He lost focus and now he's unable to bring everything to a good and coherent conclusion. Tbh, I don't feel sorry for him. It's his own doing.
Seems to me that the reason book 6 is so difficult is because he has an ending in mind that he needs to get to, which is different than how he’s written before where the stories unfold naturally as he writes them. Judging from the HBO show, winds of winter will probably end with everyone in winterfell, or on the way at least. Getting them there is the hard part, but after that it should be much simpler, so hopefully book 7 will be an easier write. Or maybe I’m high on copium, who knows.
I think he should have just scrapped everything when he got stuck for years. He should have read the books thought a new way to write last books. Because he clearly stuck and this aint go anywhere
I am a first time writer and have acquired an editor. She worked with several major Sci-Fi and Fantasy labels. She told me, under no circumstance, should you not know where your story is going. Unless each book is self contained ALWAYS know how it will end. If your story is growing too large, STOP, carve it down, and continue towards that ending.
He's made a story so complex that wrapping it up in a satisfying and cohesive way is almost impossible. If he wasn't rich he might be motivated to do it but he's absolutely loaded so the only motivation is his creative integrity
Wether he’s lazy, busy, got writer’s block or whatever, he NEEDS to come out and be honest about it at this point. It’s been 12 years and all the fans have heard is “I’ll get it done when I get it done”. After this long that’s not good enough. Books like the silmarilion wouldn’t be anywhere near as loved if Tolkien spend decades writing that while ignoring the main story. World building side stories are great but they’re pointless if the main stories are never finished. Martin’s not getting any younger, at this point it’s doubtful he’ll ever finish A Song of Ice and Fire in his lifetime.
Martin doesnt get to sit next to Tolkien whether he finishes his pornographic monument to nihilism or not. Mythologies aside tolkien and Lewis were another breed of men entirely.
If he's struggling this badly, bringing in a co-writer to get it over the finish line is surely the right thing to do. Fans have every right to be pissed off. He's taking the piss. Even just a bit of honesty, so fans could chose if they want to remain fans - i.e if there is no conclusion, they might not be interested in the world he's created anymore.
@@exosproudmamabear558 yeah, we've all had problems in our lives where just bouncing ideas off someone can help so so much!! He owes it to the fans that have got so invested in the world he's created to finish it. Unfortunately, with success comes expectation, and he's built up a massive amount of it.
While I fully appreciate the enormity and complexity of his task, this is why you write with a planned outline... "Gardening" is cool, I dig it, and ai respect it, but every healthy and fruitful garden exists and flourishes within boundaries and guidelines. Not writing a basic outline that he can readjust when his story trajecotry changes and (presumably) not having a character and lore bible is going to be his undoing. If he tragically passes before his work is finished, as much as I and everyone else want him to be the one to finish it, making it so that no one else could finish it for him would be so much worse. At least least there's precedent for beloved works being finished by trusted individuals like in the case of Christopher Tolkien. I don't necessarily agree with people who say tbat he's bored with it. I just think his gardening has grown beyond his clear headed understanding of how to start tying it all togethee because he didn't set out with a clear end point in mind, so he occupies himself with other work to both occupy his time and to offer further inspiration. He doesn't "have" to finish anything, I suppose, but the least he owes his audience is his honesty and transparency, and I completely agree that he owes the legacy kf his contribution to culture.
I write fanfiction, not at all the same, but even I have a rough outline of what's going to happen, things change along the way, characters that weren't going to have as much screen time get more, but I know the ending, and am steadily working towards it. Almost halfway at this point. The rough outline does help, even for the gardening style as you point out. If nothing else throw stuff at the wall, move on, then come back and work on it later.
He entered himself into a social contract with his readers that make him obligated to finish the series, you are absolutely right. When you meet someone new and you go in for a handshake, it enters both of you into this same type of contract where if they don't reciprocate the handshake, they are now viewed as a rude person. Martin's statements and actions over the past years makes him look spiteful and incompetent. He hasn't broken this contract yet, not until he either officially gives up or dies, but it is definitely in the process of breaking
What 'social contract' is this? If I start a series and don't release it then... what, I've done something unethical? By what standards is he obligated to finish the series? "Finish my story NOW NOW NOW!" Fanboy culture is brain rot.
@@nmdubstudios6850if you never release it, then you don't swindle people out of money, time investments and support, genius. But if you start publishing something, you're obligated to get it done. But you don't understand that, do you? How does it feel to consume half-baked ever so unfinished, "cancelled after season 3" slop that makes you feel superior because you're "not a fanboy" when you just let every creator piss in your mouth with empty promises, dumb excuses and no understanding of what responsibility is?
@@miobiuscrimson2828 And what time and money would that be exactly? You presumably paid for books 1-5 and got what you paid for. I wasn’t aware that buying one book in a series was the same as buying all the possible future books in that series. I guess my local Barnes and Noble missed that one. Here, let me weep for the imaginary money you lost, and while I’m at it I’ll weep for all innocent people whose hearts stopped you stopped from your Reddit BO. Maybe after you’re done LARPing out whatever headcannon you’ve made up about my taste in media you can give it another go and let me know what legal or moral statute GRRM has violated by not releasing the Winds of Winter. Or you can stop wasting real time typing about how much imaginary time you lost, but I already have a strong impression that’s well beyond you.
@@nmdubstudios6850 Yeah, right. Let's insult me instead of what I said. Feeling vindicated yet? I guess you do buy books to see the story go nowhere, shrug it off and say "That's it then". Every story has to end, otherwise what's the point of having a story, right? Starting a huge work, getting 5 books deep, while roping millions of people in for the ride along to start pontificating about how "eh, do I really owe you the end of it?". Yeah, you do now. It's not like he wrote a singular self-contained book and we ASKED him to write a sequel he didn't want to write. I'm not saying he should release the book right this instant, but there should be no question about his obligation to do so at some point in time, unless dead, ill or otherwise objectively incapable. That's called follow-through. But, continuing the thread of mutual insults, I suspect you don't see much of that in your life. I guess your father set a bad example by not following through with coming back home from that one milk purchase all those years ago, you poor sap. Two can play at this game, you see. And now we're both some assholes on the internet hating each other because of some millionaire fatass not having enough decency to accept his legacy being tarnished as a result of his own making. Quite the sight, huh?
@@nmdubstudios6850Would his series have made anywhere near the amount of money or relevance had Martin said that he doesn't intend to finish the series & would purposely leave it incomplete? That is the social contract.
As a want to be writer myself I have to say: the series is the author’s first and foremost and they can do with it as they please. They created the story, characters, setting, etc. after all. HOWEVER in the same breath as a writer it is your ABSOLUTE responsibility to try your very best to satisfy your audience. After all THEY were the ones that invested time, energy, memory, and possibly even money to get your work known and your story to be where it is today.
He hasn't finished the series because he simply doesn't have an ending. He's written all the convoluted plots and complex characters, but he can't pull all the strands together into a whole that can reach a satisfactory conclusion. The series ultimately will be finished, but by a writer hired by his estate, using his notes and outlines.
As someone who has been awaiting the 6th book for god knows how long. I think we should move on. Be happy when it is released, but do not put your hopes and prayers into it.
A big fear of *mine* is Martin dying before he can finish the series. He's 75 already, and Winds of Winter isn't even very close to done apparently. If it takes another 5 years then we'll already be running the risk of him tapping out. If he takes just as long to write the 7th book as he has Winds then he'd be close to 100 by the time he was done, and I don't have realistic hopes that *anyone* is going to make it to 100.
A Dream of Spring will not be as complex and important to the story as Winds of Winter. It will most likely serve as one big ending to all the characters in the series. Therefore I believe that he will be able to write it faster than the current book. He will be focusing mostly on wrapping up the story as a whole then maneuvering through complex story and character arcs in the next book after Winds of Winter. It took 17 years for JRR Tolkien to write the whole of Lord of the Rings and that isn’t even half as complex as A Song of Ice and Fire. George RR Martin has given every indication that he intends to finish the series and just like other fantasy writers before him I believe that he has the ability to make Winds of Winter happen in the next few years.
This is what I'm hoping is the real explanation for the massive delay for Winds. By writing/publishing his penultimate book, he will essentially be shoehorning all the characters into their individual subplots/endings even before starting to write A Dream of Spring. So he's basically writing two books instead of one (in terms of his plot).
i agree. WoW is a cluster fuck of a book to write and to sort out and that’s why it’s taking so long. once the extremely entangled knot has been almost completely detangled, it’s gonna be a piece of cake for writing a dream of spring compared to WoW
He's not my bitch, but neither am I his. He's not entitled to my money if he can't finish his series. I don't have to buy the books of a guy who can't deliver an ending. He doesn't owe anything to potential fans, but neither do we owe him to be fans. The criticism is valid. He's not entitled to do as he pleases without criticism. He's an unreliable writer who can't finish his product. And thus for people criticise him and leave. That's a logical consequence, not an affront. So yeah, there's something fans can do, simply don't buy his works. He's not going to finish them and he doesn't deserve any support.
That next book will never be finished. As others here have said, he owes his fans honesty. If he has lost interest or literally can't figure out where to go from here, just say so. If he can't manage that, well, then, no, he's nobody's bitch, but at the same time most of the online comments and personal discussions I've had say they are done with the whole series.
People say that "he doesn't owe the fans anything" and I disagree. I get the feeling that he's manipulating his audience on purpose, that's what I think. It's clear he couldn't care less about TWOW, not when he has so many scripts/shows/other books to work on, it's not his priority. He could just tell us to our faces and we would get done with it. But no, he keeps quiet for he knows being dishonest and "going full Scrowdinger's catbox" it's the best strategy in terms of market, he knows shows and future books related to him would drop value in a minute. He was forced to publish FaB because editors were at his throat wanting more material and TWOW wasn't finished, but I bet the same problem will happen with FaB volume II: unlike FaB volume I that was mostly written, he has less material for volume II. Being manipulated by large companies? Quite a change of mind to someone that is considered a hippie lol. So yeah, it's ok to be mad at Martin, and yeah, he does owe us too.
I really don't care if he finishes it, perhaps its better not to for multiple reasons. I will refrain from anything that has his signature because he has lost my trust as a writer and i don't like to reward people who bash the fans. They can keep their precious work to themselves.
I think he cares about the universe but the main books became so much of a hassle to write it's easier and probably more rewarding for him to just branch off into other stories in the setting, stuff he can write without worrying about thousands of moving pieces he set up. Can't say I don't understand but he wrote himself into this with his method of writing. I'm on the middle ground here, it's ok to be annoyed by Martin not finishing his series but the way people talk about being owed it doesn't sit well with me especially when he is writing things in the universe still. stop brought up Tolkien "getting distracted and not finishing Lord of the Rings" and I found that amusing because LoTR took almost 20 years to write with many hiatuses in that period. Tolkien was absolutely getting stumped with where the story would go and sidetracked by other projects all the time. It's just that he was far younger than Martin and also that he only released LotR once it was all finished (LotR was written as one book, the publisher split it into 3), so people didn't see the creative proccess and delays as they were happening.
I don't care about finishing ASOIAF neither about him and his legacy. He is an egopath, constantly shifting the blame for his own failures on his fans. Well, we audience are not his bitches either nor his suckers to take all of this bashing treatment just to have an ending; Which by the way, we all know he literally f***** with his laziness and greediness. And no in my opinion a man who bashes his own fanbase, he is never going to write a proper closure nor a decent ending. I don't even care. So for me he can take his books, shows and sh****y behavior, and carry them to his grave for all I care. Like I should care about his legacy. As an audience you have the power to also turn your back to these crap. Be happy he won't finish the books. We've heard and seen enough and he took enough far more than what he gave.
The reality is, when you look closely, his books are just a bunch of tricks to keep the reader engaged. I used to love them but the reason he can't finish is because he actually has nothing to say. No deep lesson or meaning. Just endless cliff hangers that lead nowhere that mean nothing in the big story.
All I want to know from Martin is if I should stay invested or if it is time to emotionally clock out on the series and just resign myself to the idea that my investment in the series wont be paid off.
Clock out you may get winds of winter but he probably won’t finish dream of spring. Only chance we got now is if he was secretly working on both at the same time and is going to sell them both together for 100 dollars
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I’ve always said that I just want GRRM to be honest. If he’s lost interest, if he’s hopeless stick, whatever, just come out and say “I’m sorry, I’m not going to be able to finish it.”
Yeah I’d rather he say that and hand off the series to someone who loves it and has shown the talent to finish it. Like Anne McCaffrey has huge book series with dozens of books in each one and as she got older she brought in her son and they wrote together until she transitioned out so that someone could finish the series
Is that something he could honeslty give up himself? What would that accomplish then to appease others who want the story more then him?
It would be the respectable thing to do, but from a Business standpoint it would be a bad move. Most people would jump ship from the series completely if the author 100% confirmed that there would be no conclusion to the Books.
If he does that his existing book sales are going to drop, the audience for his spin-off shows are going to drop, and tons of deals and merch sales are going to collapse. That's why he doesn't want to be straight-forward about it.
That's not wanting honesty, that's wanting validation for your scepticism.
He may well believe he is going to finish and that he's getting closer to the end.
He doesn’t owe us a book, he just owes us honesty.
Exactly 👍🏿
He is literally an author who writes about treachery.
@@arkfounder7056 I don’t understand the point you’re making.
I could write a book about Nazis and I am definitely not a nazi
Let's be honest here even if George suddenly feels the need to come clean to us about the real state of the book/s he would have to supress it since I am sure his publishing company and HBO must have him by the balls, contractually speaking, and they risk losing way too much money if he one day drops a bomb like "Hey, guys this will take another decade or so" or "I am too old, too rich and too unfocused to ever finish this series"
But he's actively been saying words to the effect of "it's just around the corner". This is more than just contractual obligations
This is analogous to falling in love with someone who slowly falls out of love with you, giving you tiny speckles of hope until they just fade into obscurity and you sit there thinking “you wasted my life”.
Damn.. I'm here if you need to talk man
@@hamzapetridis206haha I’m okay brother, but I appreciate your kindness. Thanks 😊
It's normal, friend. Take good care of yourself John @@johnlocke4715
I dont understand this, the novels we got are irreplaceable. Even if we never get an ending I will forever cherish the stories I've had from them and the breadth of the world Martin has given us.
@@kman13131And in that case, I guess it's reasonable to say: falling in love with someone who loves you back but doesn't end up loving you *forever* isn't a waste 😊 the love was beautiful while it lasted
There is a non written promise between writer and reader: "I know something you don't know. If you keep reading, I will tell you."
There IS also the fact, that writers are Not gods Bit human and writing IS hard AS hell, especially the Higher the expectations are
Well the was writing on the wall with GRRM. He has stated how his idol never finished his book series. He has also stated that he would rather burn his notes then pass them off to let someone else finish them. The show finished it and now he is stuck.
@@SirCanuckelhead What can I say. If this is what he wants to do, all we can do is go ahead and move on. It is a shame, he could've truly been the American Tolkien.
He never could. It's laughable. Ive never read the books, but even from the show and the lore exerpts you get the sense how convoluted and unconnected the story lines are. There was never a way to wrap it all up in a cohesive, satisfactory manner. He's been adlibbing and stringing you along.
This whole series is just a mistery box J.J. Abrams style.
george might just be like every other creative person tho. if you guess his secret he might just have to change it. the expectations put on him by us and himself are most likely why he hasnt finished. if the show ending was the true ending to the story then how can he expect us to enjoy something we've already seen and mostly hated. when it was books it was one thing but making something that isnt even completed into a cultural phenomenon and then having it end the way it did. how does he top that, how does he remove the negative taste from our mouth
As someone who started the series in 1998 and was a member of his fansite forums (westeros) for more than a decade, GRRM is a cautionary tale about fame. The first three books came out when he was relatively niche/unknown and hungry for fame and accolades. Once he achieved that, once he was proclaimed 'The American Tolkien' by Time magazine and got in with HBO, everything came screeching to a halt. Another point of frustration from his fanbase is both his endless promotion of side-projects and selling of merch and schmoozing at conventions rather than putting in the work. He became addicted to being recognized, a very heady and dangerous thing for unrecognized nerdlings with a lack of discipline/arrested development (Patrick Rothfuss comes to mind as well). I've been resigned since 2012 that we wouldn't see a conclusion to this series, and wrote it off then; I was happy to get the intended concept of the conclusion through the show, even if the execution wasn't great.
Interesting points thx for sharing
i’ve actually never thought of it this way, but it makes sense. i’ve been thinking for a while now that a lot of the issue is because he’s no longer a “struggling artist” working to keep the lights on, there’s no survival drive for him to churn out the series like he once did, along with perfectionism and the response to the ending being something he didn’t expect to be so controversial. but the fame/status idea adds up as well.
the execution of the latter half of the show was poor considering the quality of the first 4 seasons, we all know that, but when you factor in all the considerations, i can see quite easily how we ended up with what we got. i will criticise d&d until the cows come home but they never signed up to complete and unfinished series that was heralded as the successor for tolkien.
for a man that despises fanfiction, it’s ironic that all we have now are headcanons made from fan theories about how the gaps will be filled from the main plot points the show gave us. the fandom, and it’s all it’s contributions from theories to discussions to art to fanfiction is solely keeping the series alive, and to be honest, i think a lot of us have made our peace with this being all that we shall have.
Totally agree. It’s all the side projects etc that get me while we’ve been waiting over a decade now.
Agreeing to give unfinished materials for TV adaptation was a big red flag that this author isn't interested in finishing it, all that bull abt being a gardener doesn't add up, the man is clearly interested in fame, recognition and money and he talks a lot, just shut up and finish it, and no the TV series gave us nothing, cause even he admitted that the books and the show are two separate things, and good analyzing by the way
This was my experience, exactly. Even the dates correspond. I quit the series around 2012, too, coming to the exact same conclusions. And in more than a decade since then, nothing has convinced me that I was wrong. Even when the HBO series came out, I shook my head sadly, thinking this can't end well. They won't have enough material to finish the series. Guess what, they didn't, and it was a disaster.
When George starts critiquing Tolkien, when he cant even finish his own series, yeah he's open for criticism.
Tolkin, WHO also never finnished His sequel or the silmarillion, that He started before Lord of the Rings was a thing
@@SingingSealRiana
Tolkien droped the sequel because he realized there wasn't much of a point to make it, you also have to factor in that he never released like a half of the seaquel to then never finish it. And the silmarillon was never suposed to be a book, it was always a bunch of notes that tolkien had in order to make the universe for his books, the only reason we have the silmarillon is because his son decided to organize and edit said notes. And with all of that you also need to remember that tolkien had a full time job, being a writer was his hobby, meanwhile for GRR Martin writing is his job. Overall tolkien began wrote stories and released them for the public once they were finished, GRR Martin started releasing them to the public and then droped it midway all the while saying he's still working on it.
@@SingingSealRianathats because no one would publish it because of paper shortages lol the silmarillion is merely a collection of the stories he wrote not an enitre tale from beginning to end, and like has already been stated he had no interest in the sequel after he realized it was not something he enjoyed writing
@@SingingSealRiana We can say that Tolkien never finished worldbuilding (always had more stories to add that he never published), but he finished the individual stories (LOTR was done, Hobbit was done, Silmarillion was... mostly done, it just had to be organized and edited, and he died before he could do it). And let's be realistic, the worldbuilding of ASOIAF is nowhere near as complex as the worldbuilding of LOTR - which is fine, it's just ridiculous how many times Martin brings up Tolkien in a context (worldbuilding), where his work is not even close to his.
@@FranciscoMurillo-97my biggest criticism of Tolkien is that he disliked Dune😂
The series isnt going to be finished until after he dies and his estate brings in an outsider to "Discover" his lost notes and manuscripts.
Maybe or maybe it will not get finished till it is public domain which will be sometimes in the next century.
Pretty sure the manuscrips are just sloppily written summaries to keep his publishers satisfied and not a definitive direction of his story
Brandon Sanderson has probably already written out a rough outline for the last two books after having surreptitiously given his contact info to GRRM's next of kin.
i heard he plans to have all his manuscripts destroyed upon his death 😂
@@El1society Well, assuming his next of kin are allergic to money and follow those instructions, at this point a more disciplined author of sufficient talent can probably make a satisfying conclusion without whatever notes he actually has written down, even if it ends up diverting significantly from his vision of Hotpie eventually winning the Iron Throne, or whatever.
The Dunk and Egg series isn't even finished which makes him working on the HBO series even more of an oof moment 😭
....it's not???
@@TrouvatkiDePercusionnope. Bros literally creating another GoT moment in real time. It’s hilarious
@@johnshadeslayer7589 Jesus, this is so far beyond parody... The guy has actually become his own meme.
@@johnshadeslayer7589he’s not literally the only good writer.
Fire & Blood also have been left unfinished, he can't finish anything at this point
If Martin wants to be on the Mt Rushmore of fantasy authors he must finish the books. Tolkien wouldn't be known, or if he was it would only be as a joke if he stopped at The Two Towers and not written Return of the King.
So the only thing I will say to correct you there is that lord of the rings is actually a single book that was split into three volumes by the publisher, but you are correct in the sentiment, if Tolkien had only gone halfsies on LoTR it would’ve been forgotten and/or never picked up in the first place despite how rich the world was
It should be noted that a significant amount of what gives JRRT his awe-inspiring clout is the world-building material that makes up the Silmarillion, which JRRT did not finish and which was not published until after his death.
@@PrometheanRising That is true, but reading the full mythology is not and never has been necessary to enjoy the two novels set in that world. Lord of the Rings had an ending that was complete and satisfying; as a novel it stands on its own. ASoIaF is a story that, as it exists now, has a beginning and a middle but no end. If you're going to make a comparison, the Silmarillion is more like Fire and Blood, Tales of Dunk and Egg, and all the other side projects GRRM has pursued instead of finishing the story that got anyone interested in the world to begin with.
@@PrometheanRisingThe Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit were both huge hits before The Silmarillion was published. Moreover Tolkien wrote that for HIMSELF. He never intended to have it published after his publisher initially said no to it. These are not comparable.
I disagree. Look at Frank Herbert and the impact he had on science fiction, he famously never finished the seventh book. GRRM has already made enough impact to have many compare him to Tolkien.
Sadly he also seems to take extreme levels of ownership of it, and has stated he does not intend to let anyone inherit it after he retires or passes away. He should clearly take on one or more co-writers to finish it, where he can direct the story, but doesn't need to sit and work out every detail by himself
I agree. I don't see him relinquishing control mainly because he himself doesn't know how to finish it.
Yeah, cause Other people writing IT historically worked Out so well😂
@@SingingSealRiana, ah yes. Two tv show producers are the same as a dedicated assistant team that can listen to ideas and have a searchable database of the released works and unreleased thoughts at their fingertips. I’m not even a Game of Thrones fan; I just feel for y’all. And GRRM makes even me mad
he should pass it to brandon fucking sanderson and we'll have the final 2 books in a year. Also 12 secret spinoffs on the year after, a board game and a RPG campaign setting
@@Nortarachanges why is it so unreasonable for a writer to not want anyone else to touch HIS work. the moment you have someone else writing it its not your work anymore. that position is not any more unreasonable than the opposite scenario. any animosity is only fueled by a weird ass sense of entitlement. noones life is dependant on the finishing of these books.
I honestly believe that there’s still a very strong core of dedicated fans. But after the tv show, the lies, the delays, the “if I don’t have it by NZ-con you can arrest me”, and the fact he was locked inside for 1-2 years and isn’t even close to finishing it I believe most people have lost interest. Before I would scour the internet in 2017-2019 looking for a crumb to nibble on and now I barely care. If it comes out, cool, but that fire of passion that was burning inside is gone. WoW, like PJ said will be underwhelming and will only leave fans thinking “how can he wrap this up in 1 more book?” and then we’ll be either left with another 10+ year wait or it will just never be released.
I lost interest. I want to watch House of the dragon because i liked the first season and I watched that with my family every sunday. As a composer who tends to procrastinate, GRR is a lesson and inspiration for I want to finish stuff and publish nor spending my whole life working on something that would not see the light.
I'm really more interested in the world than I am the story any more, idgaf who wins, its been so long I've imagined all possibilities multiple times, I'd rather more games and shows than the book now, and that's really sad for one of my favourite authors
If you've already read through the first 5 installments you're hardly gonna miss the latest one if you enjoyed the first ones. It seems like people are losing interest because less people are talking about it but everyone is just waiting now. If anything the books have gained more of an audience what with all the new fans the finished the show and wanted to start the books
I always said that if we don't get the book post-pandemic we will never get it. Martin will never be less busy with other projects than he was during the pandemic.
He's 75 and I imagine he will care about wanting to release it before he dies, legacy and what not. That may accelerate it but he can realistically live 20 more years so yea, probably not gonna see anything until the 2040s
One day we'll find out there never was a manuscript.
“All work and no play makes George a dull boy.”
that's all he's writing instead of writing winds of winter
Right? Enough with the "it's nearly done" bs and admit that it's over and we're moving on to other things. No one is watching HotD in the hopes of him finishing ASoIaF. His fanbase isn't going to desert him. We'd just love some honesty.
@@nrakethi think the correct version of the quote is:
All work and no joy, makes george the handsome a dull boy.
"Can you imagine. aworld where Tolkien became too distracted with Elvish History and side projects to create The Return of the King?" Oh I can imagine. That's kind of what happened, and it's why we have the Appendices at the end of Return; because he DID get distracted. But I see your point, after all Tolkien DID finish, after all.
And partially because Tolkien had an epilogue in mind, of Sam telling his children the story and revealing what happened to everyone later. But that was scrapped and he just let the appendices tell the basic history of the world up to Lord of the Rings and then had the epilogue tossed in there as well.
Tolkien took breaks writing, sometimes for years. And when he came back he wrote the whole thing all over again starting with page 1.
No he did not get distracted. The reason for the appendices is purely because of a papaer shortage during the time of the world wars, it was a massive risk to publish a regular novel and expect to get your money back let alone the hundreds of pages that exists in the LOTR trilogy, tolkien wanted to make them longer
Except return of the king was published less than a year after two towers. The gap between two towers and it was longe than between fellowship and two towers, but it's hardly comparable to anything Martin has done.
He'd finished the LOTR series before the fellowship was published and then he never completed anything after that
Meanwhile....
Brandon Sanderson : ...
( viciously typing away at sequels spinoffs and prequels on a multiverse scale and during his "breaks" )
That man is a MACHINE.
In all fairness, that guy is a freak of nature. Nobody can compete with his pace and still maintain quality like he does
@@colossusslayer1234 yeah that's true. I honestly need to know what he runs on because Jesus Christ, I tried writing a story and got writers block not 2 paragraphs in .
@@Lex_Nocturna lmao honestly. My man takes a week break from writing and writes a whole nother book😂
I think Brandersons prose ends up being kinda plain as a result. It is BY NO MEANS bad. His prose is somewhat plain by design by his own admission. Him churning out so many books and focusing a lot on the quality of the storytelling and technical structure and payoff means that it may not always have the most beautiful and poetically haunting sentences that shape literature itself. But there are still some raw ass lines and moments
Martin has never finished anything he's ever started. That's made clear from his Dreamsongs career spanning anthology. The closest he ever came to a serial success prior to GoT was Wildcards, and the only reason that happened is because he was editing, and not writing. plus, he had to work with writers with real commitment and who understand the relationship they've built with their fans
I feel bad for all the deceased fans who started the series at some point between 1996 and now but didn't live to see the ending.
bold of you to assume that anyone will see it
you mean literally everyone right? because he isnt gonna finish it.
If we have to wait until the books become public domain before someone can complete the series and distribute their work, the overwhelming majority of people alive today who are old enough to be able to read his work won't get a book ending within their lifetime.
I believe the delay for a work to enter public domain is the lifespan of the author plus 70 years. If memory serves, we have Disney to thank for that (may they choke on Mickey Mouse).
Hopefully, whoever gets the estate after him and his wife pass on will get greedy. The downside of that scenario would be that it is a gamble whether whoever they hire to complete the series will get it right.
Once it becomes public domain, then anyone can try their hand and someone is bound to get it right. I don't care how much of a fan you are of GRRM, nobody is so special and unique that they cannot at least be replicated or even surpassed.
you won't live to see it either
Nobody will live enough to see it, not even George.
As an artist myself, even if I have a *really smaller audience*, I do feel this on a personal level. Yes, it's true that forcing art isn't exactly the best choice, and the fans are more than willing to wait just a bit more for the product to be really perfect. But you can't procastinate this much in front of them, expecially after you're able to EXCLUSIVELY work on your project bc your fans paid for all you now own. Fans can be toxic from time to time, but the majority is still supportive, but you have to pay back the support, at least up until what dragged them in ends.
Would putting out a sub par product be "paying back the support"?
The thing is, Martin is able to work exclusively on TWOW, but why should he if he doesn't want to? Why should he burn himself out on finishing a single product when he has more than one passion in life? TWOW and ADOF will be finished when he feels like he has finished them and that they are good enough to be released.
@@SaetherOfficialif he has lost interest, that's ok. None of us owns him, but at least he should be honest with the people who has supported his work and let someone else to finish the damn thing.
@@eikrzatarra7867 who said he lost interest?
@@SaetherOfficial he'll be dead before those last two books are released. He's old and obese. His time is short.
@@SaetherOfficial better than nothing
It's ironic that George R.R. Martin looks down on Game of Thrones fanfics yet they're far enjoyable to read than his own novels that he will never finish.
WHAT????? bro has beef with fanfics
@@kanyewestt3 yes he's said he things fan fictions are disrespectful and lazy, because authors should come up with their own stories.
This is of course, stupid and idiotic. People wouldn't write fanfics if they didn't massively respect the work they riff on. And fanfic writing isn't lazy either, I've seen a lot of really well written fanfics. Fanfics are just easier at getting a start with writing.
@@pax6833 bro fanfics are just what-if’s. Like what if something else happened rather than the events of GoT and how it wouldve affected the story and the ending. Really GRRM?? 💀💀
It's so funny that he thinks that because that's what fans are going to rely on when he doesn't finish these books
Fanfics are also good at getting into character’s heads for visual media like shows, movies, and comics. The shift in medium allows you to try and understand a character more in the what-if scenarios fanfics provide
Also many legends and myths are often cultural fanfics lmao. King Arthur literary tradition is a compendium of different authors from different times and places putting their spin on earlier written stories of characters that were original Welsh. Fanfic is as old as dirt, and as long as you’re not trying to make money off a copyrighted intelectual property that isn’t yours, there’s no issues with it
I think one of the only things GRRM has ever actually finished was the overarching world of Elden Ring, and even that was something he did with a lot of notes from Miyazaki himself on what kind of world it should be.
It’s hard to even know what extent of that he even wrote. Elden ring’s story and characters feel just like Miyazaki’s previous work.
@@therabbi9848From everything I've seen it seems like they were both about equally invested.
Can't have been too much - not enough breasts and defecation in that game for Georgie boy to have had much say.
From interviews from both it looks like Miyazaki gave him a brief rundown of what they needed and he delivered about 20 pages of a short story and this story probably laid out the names and relationships of all the Demigods and how the Shattering happened which is all ripped off Norse Mythology. Erdtree = Yggdrasil. The Shattering = Ragnarok. Everything from there is FromSoftware
It was just more of the same 'fantasy world is vague and mysterious for the sake of it' rubbish they've been recycling since the SoulsBorne series started
I’m the author of a series, and this whole “authors don’t owe you” attitude is ridiculous. If I proclaim “I have a story to tell!” and I ask you to invest your time, money, and emotions in my story, I don’t get to just walk away in the middle of telling it. Even if you weren’t paying me, I’ve still promised you something in exchange for your investment of time and emotion, you’ve paid your half of the bargain, and I absolutely do owe you mine.
Totally. I really don’t know why this is so difficult for some people to understand. I am an artist as well. Obviously nowhere near the level of GRRM, but I would absolutely feel a duty to myself and the rest of the world to finish a project if the first three quarters of it became one of the most popular works in its genre.
Hear, hear! If you can't do it, you can't do it, but at that point, the least you can do is accept that *you let people down*, and their unhappiness is legitimate.
Exactly. If I were in his situation, I would be sharing my struggle with the fans and being transparent about the possibility of not finishing it. Stringing them along for so many years claiming everything's fine while working on dozens of other projects is ridiculous.@@jahinxalmothsunsmile4374
I also agree with this. I’m still an amateur author just starting out but I would like to think that I wouldn’t do this to fans. If it’s that difficult to finish your story then either just admit it or GET SOME PEOPLE TO HELP YOU!
@@jamestrammell9395 what kinda stuff do you write?
there is no doubt in the world that George is in the top five most famous authors alive today... at least in the english speaking world. that is an acomplishment so so SO few people will ever have. and he got there because of a series he doesn't care to finish. It's absolutely okay that we don't respect his unending decisions to work on other things
And if he doesn't finish his series, he will go down as one of the worst, most disappointing authors of all time.
@@cl5470
Unfortunately, he will.
@@cl5470nah loads of authors didn't finish there series
I'm not sure he really deserves it to be honest. In hindsight. He has treated his fans terribly and the quality of his works haven't aged well. He has no real plan or outlines for the books, which was revealed through his interviews where you find out he has just let the story take him where it goes, and then he literally makes up the history after the fact to match something he wanted to put in a scene. You then see the original story outline for ASOIAF, a trilogy that looks nothing like what he has brought out. And then you look at the character bloat that occurs at a feast for crows. He didn't have a plan or couldn't stick to a plan. At first, this led to an interesting and unpredictable story (because he didn't even know where he was going), but ultimately led to it getting completely out of control and making it impossible for him to finish. All of this is ultimately underlined with no broader message to his works, just cynicism. Even if it got finished, it wouldn't go down with great works like LOTR, as it doesn't really have the depth. The fandom is currently held up by streams of theorising and speculation that will dissolve the moment he actually releases the book. Is he a great writer? Yes. But there are much better, much more professional, disciplined, skilled and deep writers out there who don't get nearly as much credit because they didn't get a high-budget HBO contract.
Until this video crossed my feed just now, I had completely forgotten. There was a time I new every bit of history and lore of this world. I no longer care. It’s an empty realization.
Yup. That’s what eventually happens when authors fuck off and procrastinate like George has
I agree, I think the only the reason he’s been coming up lately is because of his attitude lately. Otherwise I would have forgotten about him.
I've started reading fire and blood because my friend told me chronologically it comes before ASOIAF and I must say this guy can write. Learning more about the Targaryen reign and the range of good and bad kings is fun to read. It almost makes me not wanna read the main books until the final two are published.
Exactly, the guy is a really good writer and nobody forced these fans to buy his books.
The lore is simply amazing. Balerion and the princess Aerea is a great example of a small but wildly interesting story.
House of the Dragon takes a deeper dive on a section of Fire and Blood, and I really liked House of the Dragon season 1.
No matter if he ends up finishing the series or not (which he probably won’t) I’d still definitely say it’s worth reading the five books already published. They’re amazing, and the experience of reading them, although bittersweet since we almost know for certain they’ll never be finished, is still worth your time.
I would very strongly advise not reading the first five ASOIAF books if the last two don't come out. The wondering about what happens ends up being worse than the enjoyment you will get out of reading the first five.
"The final two are published" oh you sweet summer child.
He can't write for shit lol
He wrote himself into a corner and now he cant figure the way out. I'm not at all pleased with this man. He's teased us long enough and I feel like he no longer gives a shit about us.
Yeah, i'm pissed at him bcz he couldve finished it if he really wanted to.
Like this guy said..
Finish the damn book already!
Exactly, im actualy thinking that S08 is close to what George would have made it and now he have panic as he have nothing to fall back on as his ideas was as bad or even worse then DnD
@@peternystrom921I think this is true. But I’m sure most fans of the books are fine if this happened because George would write it properly, it wouldn’t be the mess of seasons 6-8. It’s not the ending we care about it’s the journey
Aren’t the statements “he wrote himself into a corner and now he can’t write himself out” and “he could have finished it if he wanted to” mutually exclusive?
@@animalia5554good writers can write themselves out of a corner. Good writers also finish their story
@@animalia5554 the answer is to get some help
The issue is that he clearly can't finish the books. If he could he would have done it already but he keeps saying he's working on it when he's clearly lying
Watch season 8 being an accurate version of the events in the last 2 books and now he's revising it.
@@3lancerofficialmaybe871nah the showrunners were very clear that UT was their idra of what happened.
@@3lancerofficialmaybe871 my thoughts exactly!
@@Ashbrash1998 Dany going Mad Queen (all foreshadowed in visions in Season 4), Bran becoming king and Jon killing Dany is likely all canon though. Tbh, even if it was done better ... I'm not sure it's really that interesting or satisfying. Jon becoming the leader of the Wildlings was fitting, I suppose. But who goes through this series and thinks "Yeah, Bran should be king. That would be a brilliant ending"?
This is the result of being a ‘gardener’, as he puts it. Exploration works for a first draft, but you would have to write the first draft for the entire series for that to work, and then see where you went wrong and write an outline for the second draft before trying again.
You cannot write without an outline in a complex fantasy story. He has written himself into a corner that we are yet unable to see. Years ago, I read in some kind of interview that he often forgets which characters are dead and he needs others to read over his work and tell him ‘hey why is this character in this scene, he isn’t even alive’. Plus, it is stated that he killed off a character too early that was crucial to the endgame or the story. That’s genuinely absurd and it would never have happened if he had any foresight at all. All he knows is the history of his world, while ASOIAF requires him to know the future as well.
I have very little respect for him as an artist. His will is that, when he dies, the story dies with him, and nobody is allowed to finish it. And yes, he will die before he finishes The Winds of Winter, and he will never reach A Dream of Spring. It’s asinine that he refuses to allow another author to help him see this through for the fans, who have made him a millionaire. The fact that he keeps lying about planning to finish it, is just the cherry on top.
He got the cash, and gets to spend his last days watching the history of his world be adapted for the screen. That’s all he cares about.
Like when he said that he regretted killing Robb before Robb even got a chance to have his own POV. Like, I get it. Red wedding is a masterpiece of subverting expectations but that's the only one thing that came out of it. It didn't further character arcs of anyone, except for maybe Catelyn.
Or Oberyn's death. GRRM overexplaining how dangerous and cunning Oberyn was to the whole political schemes...after he's long dead.
His outrage/disregard of fan feelings just paints him as a self absorbed asshole.
The thing about him not wanting anyone else to finish it when he dies, I personally believe there’s too much money at stake to not publish SOMETHING. Would it get the same fanfare and publicity it would have got when GoT was airing or just wrapping up? No. But I’m willing to bet is a guaranteed couple million copies sold easily. And the publisher will offer the eatate a cheque with a lot of zeros for them to let someone else finish it and someone will agree. At the end of the day, money talks
@@Souten66exactly. 😂 I came to say this exact same thing. The man has no heirs. Hell we literally got a Gone with the Wind sequel SIGNED off by direct family members, George is an absolute fool is he thinks some publishing company/HBO won’t pump out the final books. Of course “from notes the author left behind”.
😂😂.
I mean.. how many Dune novels have we gotten “based on notes left behind by Frank Herbert” ? 😂😂
@@nont18411 That was I thought Robert Strong was going to have the Mountain's body and Rob's head.
Until a book comes out, I'm operating under the assumption that ADWD is the last book.
Oh god so the last (non-epilogue) chapter of the series is Dany shitting herself to death...
@@ijustreview Yep. That's how the story ends until he finishes the next book.
@@ijustreview What a great sendoff to House Targaryen
Ah the book of cliff hangers. We dont' know what Brienne decided to do about Jaime and Catlyn either.
@@songsayswhatwe do. GRRM stated in an interview that she screamed “Sword”
Personally I think what we have seen is one of George’s biggest strengths as a writer become one of his biggest weaknesses. He describes himself as a Gardner writer type. This is great for letting things grow organically, and has enabled characters and stories in all of the ways that made the story as engaging as it is. But it’s also what’s it such a mess. What’s more George has spoken repeatedly about how “history never repeats but it rhymes” including in his fictional universe, so in order for him to get to the ending he wants he needs to see where his story will end up, he needs to see where it has been. That may seem crazy but there’s lots of foreshadowing of Aegon being a secret blackfyre, the blackfyres and the blackfyre rebellion being stuff shown in the dunk and egg novels of that events in Winds of Winter will echo events from stuff like the Princess and The Queen where there was a huge war where dragons fought dragons “and everywhere the dragons danced, people died.”
The problem is for fans who are only interested in the core Ice and fire books all of this extra stuff is a distraction. And I don’t really blame them for feeling that way.
Imagine if Martin had Stephen Kings(for example) discipline. He'd really do wonders.
I’ve often daydreamt about this lol
That would be insane. King probably would've had this series finished AND it's spin-offs by now. 6 pages a day is crazy.
@@mikefrost5575 yep king's dark tower series is an epic on an equal if not larger scale than ASOIAF and the amount of time king took between each book is fairly reasonable. Not to mention he cranks out single books almost every year now
To be that sounds like asking for a cold hot shower.
A person with really good discipline wouldn't write ASOIAF. That is the kind of story only a person with a lot of creativity and very little work ethics can even think of writing. Many fans have voiced this, but 2 books are not enough to close the series, conservatively we would need at least another 2, meaning this series would have 9 MAIN books. Tell any diligent writer you're going to start a 9 book series and they will laugh at your face.
@@ggwp638BC The main wheel of time series is 14 books. The longest gap of time between any 2 releases in the series is 4 years and that's because the author DIED
It has been 4,429 days since the release of A Dance with Dragons (Or 12 years, 1 month and 18 days)
I think the story is too complex for one author to keep all parts together.
GRRM needs a massive support staff like Ken Follett.
They could write different versions of scenes and George could pick one he likes.
Another option is that Brandon Sanderson finishes it like the Wheel of Time. Sanderson said he would not do this again but he has the skill to do it in 3 years.
Ugh. I hate Sanderson writing. That said: he’s the exact opposite of George.
George: “yep making good progress on it”: absolutely nothing done.
Sanderson: “I would never take over and finish ASOIAF”: already has completed, proof read, fully ready to go manuscripts along with a sequel series ready to go.
😂
Anyone but Sanderson, please, I loathe his writing style.
@@iwritechecksatthegrocerystoreSay what you will armor Sanderson, but he did more to make Egwene Al'Vere actually live up to her hype and not just be a shrill idiot who did literally the most obviously stupid possible action at practically every given opportunity than Robert Jordan did in every other book in the series.
@@lnsflare1Sanderson was a good fit for Wheel of Time, after all his style is heavily inspired by it. He would not be a good fit for ASOIAF.
The nihilism of Martin turns out to make him averse to endings, who would have thought.
Reject nihilism
Embrace hope
This, right here.
I agree with everything you say in this video. While an author obviously doesn't "owe" his readers anything, he should at least be openly communicative with a fanbase that has gotten invested in a story and cares about an ending. I think what bothers a lot of fans isn't that Martin is taking so long; it's his dismissive attitude. It feels like he has lost his enthusiasm in finishing ASOIAF but he doesn't want to openly admit this.
He also owes it to himself to finish the story... without a conclusion it will lose some of its legacy
there’s so many loose threads. usually i don’t really care at all about stuff like this but his problem is so specific. like at least give the mass of readers some answers or more information or teaser chapters. i don’t even really like got and i’ve never fully finished it, it just feels so ridiculous that the minute he got rich and famous, he abandoned the thing that got him there and spent a decade alienating fans. just be honest or don’t hold onto your secrets like they’re so precious, i’m not sure but i’ve heard he doesn’t want the story to be continued if he doesn’t finish it and he doesn’t want information released which is so specifically annoying and stupid.
Yeah, the dismissive attitude is the worst....in all the GRRM interviews Ive seen, he always fondly recollects about being a huge comic fan when he was a kid, writing letters to the comic books, etc....but then when the tables are turned and fans of ASOIAF show the same amount of interest, he's like: "What's wrong with you? Its just a book, stop being so serious"....he can reminisce about his own me memories as a fan, but then when it comes time to address his fans, it's like we're an annoyance that he's condescending towards.
Sure, he doesn't "owe us anything", but generally speaking, we agree that decent humans should be honest, direct, and not lead people on, and I feel like he's ignored all of that.
@@ac-ye6sfthe loose threads part is spot on. There’s no conceivable way he wraps it all up in two books and provides a satisfying ending for everyone. I remember GRRM said that he received letters from fans saying very minor characters were their favourite. There’s not enough time to include everyone which begs the question, why did he even mention so many minor characters in the first place.
@@johnlocke4715 i know a lot of people enjoy his storytelling cause it feels so large and i can understand how someone with different taste than me can find that incredibly compelling, he’s not lacking in ideas, and i LOVE large worldbuilding, but he just tosses everything to the wall and crosses his fingers hoping all of it will stick and that’s just messy (to me). it doesn’t make for compelling storytelling when you’re taking me from moment to moment, person to person, place to place, but never fulfilling promises made to your audience and wrapping things up neatly. like NOT A SINGLE thing feels solid and done and coherent from beginning to end. it was too much, too fast, too short for what what it’s trying to be, TOO SLOW. not worth finishing reading to me, so i never have. ik lots of people like it and can accept half-done things but i despise stories like that, all the effort feels pointless if i’m not getting any answers or conclusions, it feels more like creative infodumping than coherent storytelling.
I’m only mad that my Grandmother, who’s read all the books and got me into the series, probably won’t see the end of the book series because Martin is slacking off but even then that feeling is fleeting. I’m just thankful for the creation of A song of Ice and Fire tbh.
she can rest easy knowing that you'll never see the end of it either
I think he’s soaking it in while he can, because I firmly believe that no matter what he puts out. People will actually fucking hate it
He could literally hire a team of people to Help him finish the books. like it or not this series is George's Magnum opus it's what he will be remembered for
@Lalvon_Zelpharr for better or worse tho. No doubt he'll go down I history, but he may not like it.
If he dies with the series unfinished, and as he's said he wants no one to finish it if he dies unlike Robert Jordan did, he may be remembered as the reason to never ever be a garden style writer. He might be remembered as a "don't be this kinda author" who's remembered for creating a great pitch then walking out when everyone leans forward.
He knows people will pick it apart and some will hate it but it’s the fact that he’s not honest and lies about things, he needs to acknowledge that he can’t finish GoTs in less than two books, he needs to understand he can’t finish all the plots in two books but he refuses to.
Just be honest with us and say “HEY I can’t finish it in two books but here’s what I have so far and I’ll release it” something like that
I don't agree it just has to be better then the shows ending
My guess is the GoT ending was, more or less, exactly what he had in mind and people hated it. So now he is stuck between writing his original vision, and revealing that the show runners weren't as much of the problem as he and others tried to claim, or coming up with something better.
Imagine if he dies before the book is finished, there would be thousands of people dedicating their time to finishing it themselves and none will be regarded as good as Martin's "perfect" version
✨ f a n f i c t i o n ✨
Because its his story lol, why would anyone else get to finish it
This is honestly the most likely outcome. The guy is 75 years old and he's been working on the sixth book for 13 years so far, and last year he said it was only 3/4 of the way done, and there's still supposed to be a seventh. It seems unlikely that he finishes them in his life.
George R. R. Martin doesn't owe us a book. But I also don't owe him continued interest. At this point, I have no desire to finish reading the series. I literally don't care how it ends.
It is been fucking years since I have read the last books,I was in high school in that time now I have a fucking job graduated from medical school like babe I cant remember most of the plotlines. If it released and I read it I will be fucking confused half of the time if I dont reread all of it again.
If you sell us a SERIES.... then yes, you DO owe us the ending.
Unless you die.
Who would have picked up his damn books if they knew that it was a road to nowhere?
Fair
If an artist doesn't care about the fans love of the art then maybe, just maybe, the artist shouldn't release his art as a product. That pile of money he sits on doesn't materialise out of thin air.
He _is_ a perpetual procrastinator and he _did_ have a huge part in why GoT fell apart. If won't get into the semantics about "owing" the fans becaue it goes deeper than that.
If someone loves something an artist does is that artist suddenly beholden to their fan's every wish? George owes it to the fans to be honest and that's all. He released books that people liked, they paid for those books and got what they paid for end of story. I'm not sure what principles lead you to think that George morally owes his fans a book.
@@nmdubstudios6850If George said upfront in book 1 that we will never get a conclusion to the book series do you think anyone would have continued to support the series? He made an implied promise to the fans when he decided to release the story in 7 volumes: support each of my volumesand you will get an ending to this story. The fans kept their end. He did not. No he doesn't legally owe anyone anything, but you cane owe someone without it having a legal or financial element to it.
@@OldWestGunslinger-vs9mx If people knew that George wouldn’t finish the series I have no doubt that ASOIAF would have a fraction of the popularity it does today. However, I don’t see how that proves any broader point about what is owed to the fans.
With any series, there’s always a risk that it won’t conclude for one reason or another, and that’s a risk that a discerning consumer has to be ready to take. Is it disappointing that we’ll probably never see a conclusion to ASOIAF? Obviously. Do I have my fair share of frustrations with George? Yes. Has George made bad decisions and horribly inaccurate estimates? Absolutely. All of that said, though, I don’t think any of that morally obligates him to release TWOW.
I think we as fans retroactively decide that our time spent with this series wasn’t worth it now that it’s more likely than not that we’ll never see a conclusion, but the truth is no one cares about an end to a series that was never worthwhile in the first place. Conclusion or no, the books that already exist stand on their own merit, and in the regard I don’t believe that any of the fans have been robbed of their time or money. The only thing George owes is transparency.
@nmdubstudios6850 There's a difference between a writer dying or falling ill and not being able to complete his work, and simply never finishing because you are a lazy slob. He isn't finishing the books because he doesn't want to, and there is the difference. He is a liar, and he absolutely owes it to the fans considering his life of luxury is entirely a result of his promises to finish the series.
@@OldWestGunslinger-vs9mx The idea that George doesn't want to finish his Magnum Opus is pretty laughable. What's much more likely is that just he doesn't know how to finish the series. Every fanboy acts like they know George personally and throws out these wild theories because they're mad. I couldn't imagine anything less likely than George not wanting to cement his legacy.
George's life of luxury is mostly from the show, which was made with the understanding that the books would almost certainly not be finished by the conclusion of the show. So, no, his life of luxury is not 'entirely a result of his promises to finish the series' lmao. I wish you could see from an outside perspective how hysterical and entitled you people come across as.
Not delivering on promises is a trait that can be critiqued.
My head cannon is that he finished the books and is going to publish posthumously. I'm just lying to myself but hey, it's an answer. He hasn't provided me one of those.
It would get him out of having to deal with the inevitable disappointment brought on by stringing your audience along for so long.
yup. And avoid anyu backlash from fans over the fabled "bittersweet" ending.@@lindseyclair921
King Bran is the ending. D&D didn't just make that up. If they could have chosen the winner of the GOT, they'd have chosen the infinitely more popular Daenerys and make a lot of fans happy.
Granted that King Bran is the endgame and given the backlash to it, he may decide to publish until after his death.
If true. Get ready for the meltdowns when he passes as the diehard fans and theorists realize how wrong they were.
maybe King Bran is the answer. The show did a crap job of having it make sense@@gerardjagroo
@@Mae-hx2ml King Bran is a critique of royal bloodlines and human rulers because of all their crap that range from basic human flaws to narcissisism to power hunger to outright madness
Bran isn't human anymore, he's the Hive Mind of all the Children of the Forest and humans who ever died.
He has all their knowledge, all their wisdom, all their spells, and he knows of all their mistakes and how to avoid them but in the act of gaining this Godhead he lost his own humanity.
That is what the author of the books GRRM was going for but the show fucked up by glossing over the major fantasy elements
It is meant to be a damning indictment against human rulers and perhaps against humanity itself.
Perhaps the idea is that power is like an acid, and in the same way acid will corrode away a bar of iron, power tends to corrode away the character and morals of every human ruler (assuming they had any to begin with) and how long exposure to too much unchecked power can errode ones character and morals to the point that you ending up with an inspiring strong passionate woman going from caring about the lot of the less fortunate even when it goes against her self interest and liberating thousands of slaves to her burning down a city in her deluded and narcissistic quest for Utopia.
This is the effect Power and the Quest for Power has on humans that you have an individual who cares so much for justice that it becomes his identity, committing the most unjust actions to seize power and bring about their Just World. ( _Looking at you Stannis_ )
It is the established ideas of Right to power by Bloodline and Conquest that King Bran is meant to critique just as Jon Snow's story is meant to critique the Hero's Journey to Kingship.
The author GRRM is opposed to this idea that just because you're brave and strong and defeated a great evil that you're fit to rule.
That what was Robert's whole storyline meant to critique.
Here you have a young warrior of noble blood throwing down the undisputed evil in the Mad King and ascending to Power.
Does that mean that he would make a good King?!
No, the very thing that made him a good warrior made him a bad king
Ned Stark was an undisputedly Good and Honorable man. Did that make him a perfect ruler?!
No because ruling requires you to do evil things at times (see Machiavelli) and Ned was unwilling to do those things
This reminds me of the question that Tywin Lannister put to Tommen about what makes a great ruler and Tywin was 100% right that it was wisdom.
Bran makes the best King because he has that wisdom, or if he doesn't, he has to means to get it, being possessed as he is of all the life stories of everyone who ever lived, all their memories, triumphs and mistakes.
At anytime he is possession of knowlege that most rulers would kill for and because he is mostly devoid of emotion, he will not be ruled by them as weak human rulers are prone to, but he will be ruled by reason.
If that doesn't make him a good King (I think he will be), it will at least make him a frighteningly competent one.
And that's what the Seven Kingdoms will need to heal.
Did the show rush the series and didn't explore the true power of greensight like in the books? Yes!
But I think the main problem with Game of Thrones is that people mischaracterize this show.
They have this set idea in their minds about how the story should end but don't understand that Game of Thrones and the A Song of Ice and Fire books are a _criticism_ of popular fantasy tropes and they get mad when things don't end they think it should end
6:28 that almost happened and in a different way did. J.R.R. Tolkien had plans to publish more works expanding on his lore and worldbuilding out of pure fan service and pedantry, but he got distracted and wrote notes for 20 years until he died. Christopher Tolkien picked up the mantle and went on to put his fathers ramblings, divorced of context, into a readable format culminating in the publishing of numerous books in both their names, most notably Unfinished tales parts 1 & 2 and the famous Silmarillion. That also took nearly another 20 years considering Christopher attempted the task for a long while before Professor Tolkien died.
It's easy to forget that Tolkien's writings started in 1908 and continued to 1956, and that was just during his lifetime! The man went through half his life and two world wars in the build up to writing The Lord of the Rings anthology. (It was originally 6 books, 2 to a volume.) The Hobbit was published in 1934, so people had to wait a long bloody time.
Now I'm no particular fan of Mr. Martin, I just have to say that living through this kind of 2nd half of life's works in real time in this day and age, yeah it is going to feel like forever.
A lot of people have lived, read some of his work and died before getting a sequel, because that is life and this happens. That is no particular fault of George and I sincerely doubt he expected and prepared for the journey that his success would bring him. Who would? He probably could have done better, but either way this kind of huge writing undertaking was always going to be a bumpy journey without guarantee of success in any regard.
There a few reasons I gave up on Martin and ASOIAF, to the point I sold my books about a year ago. 1: He's never going to finish. This, while unfortunate, wouldn't be so bad, if not for 2: He refuses to allow the series to be passed on to someone else, even in the event of his death. This is a huge slap in the face of all fans of his series and a pretty big, prick move. However, it was the last thing that made me decide to get rid of my books. 3: When his fans asked/begged him, again, to finish the series about a year ago, he insulted and attacked them. Though I can't remember what precisely he said, it was enough for me to declare that he's a massive A-hole, who won't ever finish the series that gave him his fame and wealth, and that I was done with the series and any spin offs, which works out just fine as it opened up a huge space on my shelves for other, finished works.
I think his biggest failing is his absolute stonewall stance of never letting someone else finish the series.
His legacy is going to be comprehensively destroyed if he dies and forbids the books from being finished by anyone else.
Yea that’s not going to happen 😂
How do you figure?
@@pickleddolphinmeatwithhors677
Because the final representative of his work will be the GOT S8 finale.
@@iwritechecksatthegrocerystoreyes it absolutely will. His reputation is already dripping down the drain. I do not hold him in the same regard as I did 10 years ago, and he has definitely fallen fast off my list of favourite authors. I know I am not alone.
@@andrewhooper5933 oh sorry. 😂 i meant there’s no way his books won’t be finished by someone else. I definitely agree with you. I should’ve been way more clear 😂.
Edit: yea you’re not alone. I mean help I’m watching at commenting on UA-cam videos about this shit. Obviously I’m not like “ohhh let him take his time. “😂.
Fuck that I saw Logan Lucky.
He owes us nothing, but a little bit of honesty and transparency would be nice.
It's been over a decade I'm sick of the excuses. Hold this clown accountable.
worst part is he has no excuses.
Hes said for years hes 75% done. 25% left to do. Feast and Dance were both supposed to be one book. Why doesnt he just commit to releasing a good chunk of what hes already done. Call one book Winds of Winter and devote the next entirely to The Long Night and call it that.
Crybaby
Yeah i'm sure not having access to a piece of media because an author works at it's own pace totally justifies him being accountable even tho you don't know anything about his personal life
@e-tean-son4146 That is true, I don't know anything about his Personal life. But saying you're playing devil's advocate would be an understatement. It's been 12 years. And it's not like something in his personal life is keeping him from doing other things. Like being on talk shows, Where he gets his ego sucked off, and he's constantly talking about how he's working with HBO on new series, and stuff. So that's not a valid excuse, dude.
Hey, clowns work hard, deliver on the work they've previously promised, and know how to properly end a routine.
Among fiction writers, there's a basic concept of how to write a story called "promises and payoffs." It's a corollary to Chekhov's gun. You put hints and clues near the beginning, and start unwrapping them for the audience as you get closer to the end. On some level, I think he knows this, but for whatever reason, he's all promise and very little payoff. I think he doesn't know how to wrap a story at all, hence deaths of major characters that seem to come out of the blue. That's part of what made it so exciting at first, but it's not just a technique for him, he's only writing at one end of a story and doesn't know how to get to the other end. He's never going to finish it even if another book came out.
The books would probably have been finished ages ago if Martin spent less time writing of things to come in them, and more time actually bringing them about. Seriously, how many freaking ancient prophesies and foreboding dreams do we have to go through that are all so vague and ambiguous that they could mean absolutely anything?
Actually, Tolken was obsessed with Elvlish history. See the Simillarian that was published after his death, which was basically him nerding out all over elves and the entirety of the mythos of his creation.
I knew it was all over when I first heard him say "butter beer". This man got "fuck you" money and that was it.
Yea when he tried to sue the city of Santa Fe for not allowing him to build a castle I knew it was over.
It's a fan's right to be angry. Whether the artist/author doesn't deliver, whether the fan is not happy with the final product, a fan has every right to be upset at the outcome of a medium that they have invested in, whether monetarily or emotionally. It's also a respect thing because instead of saying things like "This is my story to tell, and I want to make sure I get everything just right." He comes out with false promises and gets angry at fans, saying "I don't owe you anything." I fear that Martin has dug himself into a hole that he won't be able to make it out of.
George is subverting your expectations by not finishing the books. It's like the red wedding, but in real life. Truly, the man's genius cannot be comprehended by mere mortals.
-Berserk fans have entered the chat--
truly the most stoic of all fandoms
Well, author died so I can understand that. He was still releasing chapters up to his death.
Martin, feels like he just abandoned the project to work on other stuff cuz he wrote himself into a corner and can't untangle the web to complete it.
Dude Miura died, that's competely different. Plus, his team is STILL finishing the manga
bro, Miura LITERALLY FUCKING DIED
how is this even comparable
Patrick Rothfuss fans more like
Ending a story with many plots is the hardest part of writing something like that. So hes overrated unless he finishes it
Agreed. If you can't have a conclusion when you create many plot points, it shows your weakness as a writer that you have ideas that go nowhere. It's just a bunch of misdirection with no reasoning for happening.
The fact an entire TV adaptation began and finished between the wait for the next book is insane
I have lost all hope, my friend.
Every year he states it will be done in several months. He has done that now for half a decade.
It's weird as hell how these authors adapted this mindset that their fans should not be upset at them. Yes, fans can be upset, be critical, lose interest in an author,...You knew that would happen the moment you picked up a pen to start a work. Stop trying to tell them what they can or cannot think, you have no control on their thoughts.
You shouldn't care this much
I used to be obsessed with ASOIAF, (don't really care for House of the Dragon, I've always been most interested in the mysteries surround the North, the Children, the Night's King, etc so I would have preferred Blood Moon), but over the last four years my interest has dwindled to the part where I honestly don't even think about it anymore and don't really care if the books come out, because I've already accepted the fact that they'll never come out.
I used to be mad, then frustrated, then disappointed, then I just got over it...haven't listed to Radio Westeros (the best ASOIAF Podcast ever made) in over a year, haven't watched House of the Dragon besides the first episode, and haven't listened to the audiobooks to go to bed too in about three years (I used to listen to them every night to go to sleep)...and until this video popped up in my feed, I hadn't even thought about ASOIAF in close to a year.
I just don't care anymore, and while I want to say "that's the saddest part of all"....I don't even care enough anymore to feel sad about it.
You went through all five stages of grief. Congrats homie
I like House of The Dragon, but I still totally agree about Blood Moon tho 👍🏾
I'll go one step further: everyone who consumed all the spin-off material is also to blame. He distracted himself, because you all allowed him to do it profitably.
I've already accepted Dream of Spring isn't coming out, but damn it it's looking like Winds will never happen either. I wish he'd just release what he has at this point.
People who have George's mindset in this instance genuinely come across as aliens. "How could you possibly experience joy when you're angry and making videos about things you dislike?" Like...these people genuinely don't understand the concept of catharsis. It's honestly hilarious!
How’s that “GaRdEnEr” writing style going, George?
Lmao forreal tho
most writters a gardener type, it isnt such a big problem
Martin's true love is screenwriting, and that is what he is focusing on now.
It is completely fair to consider someone who releases a series of books with no intention of finishing them as a second rate hack. Coming out and blaming fascists for the inability to write is just the icing on the cake really.
Having a Ph.D. in psychology, I can accurately predict whether Martin will finish his book, and the answer is no. He's likely in a state of serious procrastination. Procrastination tends to worsen with difficult tasks, and Martin faces a colossal challenge in tying together the intricate storylines and characters from his first five books. Compared to engaging in side projects and attending conventions, writing 'Winds of Winter' is much more daunting. He's a 'gardener' writer, meaning the story evolves as he writes, which, with so many elements to consider, makes concluding the series satisfactorily extremely challenging and stressful. Overcoming such challenges is possible, but given Martin's past record and lack of extreme discipline, it's unlikely without significant changes. He would need to abandon all side projects and isolate himself for 1-2 years, focusing solely on the book. Currently, we're not seeing any behavior that even remotely suggests this approach.
Look at here everybody, this guy has a Ph.D in psychology-. Look bro, you are onto something with the whole Gardener type of writer thing but you are missing the one major issue. It seems he is able to write everything else except his main series and I think the problem comes from the GoT show. He himself and the showrunners have mentioned in the past that George was forced to give up his ending, everything. To a gardener that is an execution because he already feels like the story is told to a degree. Does it mean he will come to the same conclusion as the show, not really, but I think it is extremely likely since the clues are there, and while there are differences, I do believe he was forced by contract to give them a summary of every character's story. Going off by that and his interviews it is safe to say that this has triggered his writer's block, because he as a gardener has already seen a version of his ending on tv and chances are he is worried by the reaction.
And just to give you an example of how the clues are there regarding the ending of the show being his. My mom who just finished reading the first book, without ever watching or seeing the show, she doesn't browse the internet at all. Her words regarding Daenerys Targaryen were "I think she will f*** them all up" and *I did not think she was acting as a just ruler, not at all* this after she burned the witch. Considering Daenerys being her favorite character but still recodnizing her tyranical qualities I could say that yeah, the ending from the show is very much George's ending just executed poorly.
Another safe conclusion is that he is tired of it, the story, everything. He is up there in years and he has all the success in the world, It is not too crazy to see how he might want to enjoy that instead of constantly writing this one story. And considering he is actually working and not sitting still, it is highly possible that he wants to move on. Not to mention his book seems a nightmare to finish, way too many characters, way too long, it would make the smartest guy lose his mind. Lack of dicipline ain't it in my opinion, there are many but this isn't it.
Don't think he is procastinating, he just make Elden Ring, i thing he just, for some reason, probably linked to anxiety or for the sheer size of the task can't finish-it.
What you said here is pretty reasonable, but god I hope it's not lost on you how insufferable it is to open all of that with, "Having a Ph.D. in psychology."
EDIT for clarity: I am also very frustrated with George's procrastination. That said,
I strongly dislike the way you started with "Having a Ph.D. in psychology," and then engaged in an extremely surface-level analysis that requires virtually no education in psychology. Most of your assumptions could certainly be worse, but you're trying to make your opinion much more definitive that it deserves to be. You don't have anywhere near enough information about the man's psyche to make any determination of what he would NEED to change to finish Winds. I agree the man's got a problem, but you're talking out of your rear end when it comes to what you think you know about him -- specifically, you're placing him in the broadest procrastinating stereotype you can think of, to avoid having to do a deeper analysis. Either you don't actually have a Ph.D. which is why you didn't display a professional level of psych knowledge; or you do have a Ph.D. and you know that you don't have enough information to confidently make the conclusions you made. Either way, you're devaluing the field of psychology by prefacing your overly broad analysis with your alleged credentials.
@@Wveth yeah, OP is a hack
I think the issue is that rather than condensing the story in feast and dance, he expanded it rapidly. Now he has the crazy task to fit all the threads into one single story. Rough
Exactly. I already really disliked his latest book of the series because I felt like he expanded too much, added too many new characters (I just say.... Quentin....... 😐) And too many new plotlines. I was no longer able to see the golden thread in his story. He lost focus and now he's unable to bring everything to a good and coherent conclusion.
Tbh, I don't feel sorry for him. It's his own doing.
GRRM: They still think I write that shit. 😂
Patrick Rothfuss: Yeah they are crazy. 😂
Imagine paying for an early access product and not getting it finished... Normally we call that a scam despite of the excuses.
Seems to me that the reason book 6 is so difficult is because he has an ending in mind that he needs to get to, which is different than how he’s written before where the stories unfold naturally as he writes them. Judging from the HBO show, winds of winter will probably end with everyone in winterfell, or on the way at least. Getting them there is the hard part, but after that it should be much simpler, so hopefully book 7 will be an easier write. Or maybe I’m high on copium, who knows.
I think he should have just scrapped everything when he got stuck for years. He should have read the books thought a new way to write last books. Because he clearly stuck and this aint go anywhere
I am a first time writer and have acquired an editor. She worked with several major Sci-Fi and Fantasy labels. She told me, under no circumstance, should you not know where your story is going. Unless each book is self contained ALWAYS know how it will end. If your story is growing too large, STOP, carve it down, and continue towards that ending.
He's made a story so complex that wrapping it up in a satisfying and cohesive way is almost impossible. If he wasn't rich he might be motivated to do it but he's absolutely loaded so the only motivation is his creative integrity
Wether he’s lazy, busy, got writer’s block or whatever, he NEEDS to come out and be honest about it at this point. It’s been 12 years and all the fans have heard is “I’ll get it done when I get it done”. After this long that’s not good enough. Books like the silmarilion wouldn’t be anywhere near as loved if Tolkien spend decades writing that while ignoring the main story. World building side stories are great but they’re pointless if the main stories are never finished. Martin’s not getting any younger, at this point it’s doubtful he’ll ever finish A Song of Ice and Fire in his lifetime.
Martin doesnt get to sit next to Tolkien whether he finishes his pornographic monument to nihilism or not. Mythologies aside tolkien and Lewis were another breed of men entirely.
If he's struggling this badly, bringing in a co-writer to get it over the finish line is surely the right thing to do. Fans have every right to be pissed off. He's taking the piss. Even just a bit of honesty, so fans could chose if they want to remain fans - i.e if there is no conclusion, they might not be interested in the world he's created anymore.
Even he doesnt include anything co writer writes at least he will get some ideas clearly his way to get out this hurdle doesnt work.
@@exosproudmamabear558 yeah, we've all had problems in our lives where just bouncing ideas off someone can help so so much!! He owes it to the fans that have got so invested in the world he's created to finish it. Unfortunately, with success comes expectation, and he's built up a massive amount of it.
While I fully appreciate the enormity and complexity of his task, this is why you write with a planned outline... "Gardening" is cool, I dig it, and ai respect it, but every healthy and fruitful garden exists and flourishes within boundaries and guidelines. Not writing a basic outline that he can readjust when his story trajecotry changes and (presumably) not having a character and lore bible is going to be his undoing. If he tragically passes before his work is finished, as much as I and everyone else want him to be the one to finish it, making it so that no one else could finish it for him would be so much worse. At least least there's precedent for beloved works being finished by trusted individuals like in the case of Christopher Tolkien. I don't necessarily agree with people who say tbat he's bored with it. I just think his gardening has grown beyond his clear headed understanding of how to start tying it all togethee because he didn't set out with a clear end point in mind, so he occupies himself with other work to both occupy his time and to offer further inspiration. He doesn't "have" to finish anything, I suppose, but the least he owes his audience is his honesty and transparency, and I completely agree that he owes the legacy kf his contribution to culture.
I write fanfiction, not at all the same, but even I have a rough outline of what's going to happen, things change along the way, characters that weren't going to have as much screen time get more, but I know the ending, and am steadily working towards it. Almost halfway at this point. The rough outline does help, even for the gardening style as you point out. If nothing else throw stuff at the wall, move on, then come back and work on it later.
12 years is enough to write ANY book
Period
He doesn’t know how to finish it and with the backlash over the show is too scared to even try
the backlash for the show has nothing to do with martin though. Thats just because D&D cant write.
GRRM is motivating me to hurry up with my own fantasy writing.
He entered himself into a social contract with his readers that make him obligated to finish the series, you are absolutely right. When you meet someone new and you go in for a handshake, it enters both of you into this same type of contract where if they don't reciprocate the handshake, they are now viewed as a rude person. Martin's statements and actions over the past years makes him look spiteful and incompetent. He hasn't broken this contract yet, not until he either officially gives up or dies, but it is definitely in the process of breaking
What 'social contract' is this? If I start a series and don't release it then... what, I've done something unethical? By what standards is he obligated to finish the series? "Finish my story NOW NOW NOW!" Fanboy culture is brain rot.
@@nmdubstudios6850if you never release it, then you don't swindle people out of money, time investments and support, genius. But if you start publishing something, you're obligated to get it done. But you don't understand that, do you? How does it feel to consume half-baked ever so unfinished, "cancelled after season 3" slop that makes you feel superior because you're "not a fanboy" when you just let every creator piss in your mouth with empty promises, dumb excuses and no understanding of what responsibility is?
@@miobiuscrimson2828 And what time and money would that be exactly? You presumably paid for books 1-5 and got what you paid for. I wasn’t aware that buying one book in a series was the same as buying all the possible future books in that series. I guess my local Barnes and Noble missed that one. Here, let me weep for the imaginary money you lost, and while I’m at it I’ll weep for all innocent people whose hearts stopped you stopped from your Reddit BO. Maybe after you’re done LARPing out whatever headcannon you’ve made up about my taste in media you can give it another go and let me know what legal or moral statute GRRM has violated by not releasing the Winds of Winter. Or you can stop wasting real time typing about how much imaginary time you lost, but I already have a strong impression that’s well beyond you.
@@nmdubstudios6850 Yeah, right. Let's insult me instead of what I said. Feeling vindicated yet? I guess you do buy books to see the story go nowhere, shrug it off and say "That's it then". Every story has to end, otherwise what's the point of having a story, right? Starting a huge work, getting 5 books deep, while roping millions of people in for the ride along to start pontificating about how "eh, do I really owe you the end of it?". Yeah, you do now. It's not like he wrote a singular self-contained book and we ASKED him to write a sequel he didn't want to write. I'm not saying he should release the book right this instant, but there should be no question about his obligation to do so at some point in time, unless dead, ill or otherwise objectively incapable. That's called follow-through. But, continuing the thread of mutual insults, I suspect you don't see much of that in your life. I guess your father set a bad example by not following through with coming back home from that one milk purchase all those years ago, you poor sap. Two can play at this game, you see. And now we're both some assholes on the internet hating each other because of some millionaire fatass not having enough decency to accept his legacy being tarnished as a result of his own making. Quite the sight, huh?
@@nmdubstudios6850Would his series have made anywhere near the amount of money or relevance had Martin said that he doesn't intend to finish the series & would purposely leave it incomplete? That is the social contract.
As a want to be writer myself I have to say: the series is the author’s first and foremost and they can do with it as they please. They created the story, characters, setting, etc. after all. HOWEVER in the same breath as a writer it is your ABSOLUTE responsibility to try your very best to satisfy your audience. After all THEY were the ones that invested time, energy, memory, and possibly even money to get your work known and your story to be where it is today.
Sometimes I tell my self that Martin has 4 secret books that’s are epic
Food for thought. Tolkien published all of the Lord Of The Ring books together, at once.
I know, it was a hypothetical.
He hasn't finished the series because he simply doesn't have an ending. He's written all the convoluted plots and complex characters, but he can't pull all the strands together into a whole that can reach a satisfactory conclusion. The series ultimately will be finished, but by a writer hired by his estate, using his notes and outlines.
Nope. George has specifically forbidden this, and it would not surprise me if its in his will. The books die with him, he has said so multiple times.
As someone who has been awaiting the 6th book for god knows how long. I think we should move on. Be happy when it is released, but do not put your hopes and prayers into it.
I agree with the contract thing, that's exactly how I think of it.
Prediction: Martin will not finish and in 50 years his works will be largely forgotten.
The impact he has made is so significant, that even if asoiaf is left unfinished. It won’t matter. He’s a legend already. ✨
@Op I think you’re right. Asoiaf is overrated and he’s no Tolkien.
A big fear of mine is dying before martin finishes the series.
That's not even a fear at this point, but the reality.
A big fear of *mine* is Martin dying before he can finish the series. He's 75 already, and Winds of Winter isn't even very close to done apparently. If it takes another 5 years then we'll already be running the risk of him tapping out. If he takes just as long to write the 7th book as he has Winds then he'd be close to 100 by the time he was done, and I don't have realistic hopes that *anyone* is going to make it to 100.
Martin is 75 and obese. Expect his heart to fail within the next few years. It's highly likely Martin himself will die before finishing the series.
Everyone is going to die before he finishes the series because he's never going to finish the series.
I bet his long term ghostwriter that helped George write these books has died.
A Dream of Spring will not be as complex and important to the story as Winds of Winter. It will most likely serve as one big ending to all the characters in the series. Therefore I believe that he will be able to write it faster than the current book. He will be focusing mostly on wrapping up the story as a whole then maneuvering through complex story and character arcs in the next book after Winds of Winter. It took 17 years for JRR Tolkien to write the whole of Lord of the Rings and that isn’t even half as complex as A Song of Ice and Fire. George RR Martin has given every indication that he intends to finish the series and just like other fantasy writers before him I believe that he has the ability to make Winds of Winter happen in the next few years.
This is what I'm hoping is the real explanation for the massive delay for Winds. By writing/publishing his penultimate book, he will essentially be shoehorning all the characters into their individual subplots/endings even before starting to write A Dream of Spring. So he's basically writing two books instead of one (in terms of his plot).
i agree. WoW is a cluster fuck of a book to write and to sort out and that’s why it’s taking so long. once the extremely entangled knot has been almost completely detangled, it’s gonna be a piece of cake for writing a dream of spring compared to WoW
He's not my bitch, but neither am I his. He's not entitled to my money if he can't finish his series. I don't have to buy the books of a guy who can't deliver an ending. He doesn't owe anything to potential fans, but neither do we owe him to be fans. The criticism is valid. He's not entitled to do as he pleases without criticism. He's an unreliable writer who can't finish his product. And thus for people criticise him and leave. That's a logical consequence, not an affront. So yeah, there's something fans can do, simply don't buy his works. He's not going to finish them and he doesn't deserve any support.
That next book will never be finished.
As others here have said, he owes his fans honesty. If he has lost interest or literally can't figure out where to go from here, just say so.
If he can't manage that, well, then, no, he's nobody's bitch, but at the same time most of the online comments and personal discussions I've had say they are done with the whole series.
On this note, its also okay to be mad at Patrick Rothfuss.
People say that "he doesn't owe the fans anything" and I disagree. I get the feeling that he's manipulating his audience on purpose, that's what I think. It's clear he couldn't care less about TWOW, not when he has so many scripts/shows/other books to work on, it's not his priority. He could just tell us to our faces and we would get done with it. But no, he keeps quiet for he knows being dishonest and "going full Scrowdinger's catbox" it's the best strategy in terms of market, he knows shows and future books related to him would drop value in a minute. He was forced to publish FaB because editors were at his throat wanting more material and TWOW wasn't finished, but I bet the same problem will happen with FaB volume II: unlike FaB volume I that was mostly written, he has less material for volume II. Being manipulated by large companies? Quite a change of mind to someone that is considered a hippie lol. So yeah, it's ok to be mad at Martin, and yeah, he does owe us too.
I really don't care if he finishes it, perhaps its better not to for multiple reasons. I will refrain from anything that has his signature because he has lost my trust as a writer and i don't like to reward people who bash the fans. They can keep their precious work to themselves.
I think he cares about the universe but the main books became so much of a hassle to write it's easier and probably more rewarding for him to just branch off into other stories in the setting, stuff he can write without worrying about thousands of moving pieces he set up.
Can't say I don't understand but he wrote himself into this with his method of writing.
I'm on the middle ground here, it's ok to be annoyed by Martin not finishing his series but the way people talk about being owed it doesn't sit well with me especially when he is writing things in the universe still. stop brought up Tolkien "getting distracted and not finishing Lord of the Rings" and I found that amusing because LoTR took almost 20 years to write with many hiatuses in that period. Tolkien was absolutely getting stumped with where the story would go and sidetracked by other projects all the time. It's just that he was far younger than Martin and also that he only released LotR once it was all finished (LotR was written as one book, the publisher split it into 3), so people didn't see the creative proccess and delays as they were happening.
What if George is just a psyop by Valve to make us forget about Half-Life 3?
I don't care about finishing ASOIAF neither about him and his legacy. He is an egopath, constantly shifting the blame for his own failures on his fans. Well, we audience are not his bitches either nor his suckers to take all of this bashing treatment just to have an ending; Which by the way, we all know he literally f***** with his laziness and greediness. And no in my opinion a man who bashes his own fanbase, he is never going to write a proper closure nor a decent ending. I don't even care. So for me he can take his books, shows and sh****y behavior, and carry them to his grave for all I care. Like I should care about his legacy. As an audience you have the power to also turn your back to these crap. Be happy he won't finish the books. We've heard and seen enough and he took enough far more than what he gave.
If ever there existed a justification for "bashing his own fanbase" you would be the living embodiment of it.
only that he did it first and multiple times, so yes mine its just a reaction and many fans feel like it. @@sum8601
oh and plus he doesn't need an excuse to do it. @@sum8601
The reality is, when you look closely, his books are just a bunch of tricks to keep the reader engaged. I used to love them but the reason he can't finish is because he actually has nothing to say. No deep lesson or meaning. Just endless cliff hangers that lead nowhere that mean nothing in the big story.
He doesn’t owe the audience his book
His audience doesn’t owe GRRM to keep up his legacy after he’s gone.
Never forget. People who fell in love with his story are now dead and will never know how it ended. Kind of sad
All I want to know from Martin is if I should stay invested or if it is time to emotionally clock out on the series and just resign myself to the idea that my investment in the series wont be paid off.
Clock out you may get winds of winter but he probably won’t finish dream of spring. Only chance we got now is if he was secretly working on both at the same time and is going to sell them both together for 100 dollars
You started this series
You finish this series
You owe it to everyone who read it to finish the book series.