When i understood Calvinism and how we are really can not be saved by our own effort. How can a dead man decide for God. Only when we are changed and born again that is the time we seek Him. I am saved by grace alone
Yes but we have to seek him! You are leaving that out! And what if we are born again, honestly seek him, then lose our faith in him. You will say that person was never saved! I don’t understand! This makes God the author of evil if we can’t choose. We can’t know love without the free will to reject it! It’s just like naturalism!
@@jameslinton6424 You cant seek him if he doesn't draw you first. And when you are born again, your salvation is kept by God, not you. So yes, if you walk away, you were never saved in the first place. "no one can snatch them from my Fathers hand!
@@jameslinton6424 romans 9. God can not create Evil. Goodness is of God. A departing from God is Evil. Evil isn't a tangible item, it is an action departing from God. God is Sovereign over people departing from him and their actions as he is sovereign over his children that he has imputed the righteousness of Jesus. To understand these things is a life's journey, his word is his word.
Romans 1:18-21 tells us that man has no excuse for ignoring God from the witness of creation. If unregenerate man has no excuse for rejecting the witness of God in creation, because he is dead in his sins, then how can God hold him accountable for ignoring a witness that he can't perceive? If spiritually dead men can't perceive God, then why are they guilty for ignoring God? 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [d]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is [e]manifest [f]in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
@@jameslinton6424 You did alright until you got to but. Romans 3:11 "No one seeks for God." Ephesians 2:1 starts out saying, "you were dead in the trespasses and sins." Dead people do not seek. No truly born again believer ever loses their faith. Many have a crisis of faith as they endure the suffering in this world but they never lose the gift of faith. Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:3, "unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” and in verse 3:5 "unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." In John 6:44 Jesus said, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." Before something must happen to him and that is the work of God the Father and the Holy Spirit who draws him to the Father through the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit comes into a person and opens their eyes to see and the ears to hear and the heart to understand. The Holy Spirit gives that person the gift of faith and the ability to believe. Salvation is all God's work and none of ours. Regarding a person who says they are no longer a Christian, you should read the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13:24-43. The wheat represents believers and the tares non-believers. It was Augustine and some earlier Church Fathers who divided the church into the visible church and the invisible church. The visible church is everyone you see going to church but we can not tell if they are believers or non-believers. The invisible church is made up of all those who are in Christ. God is not the author of evil neither does he cause a person do do evil but he does allow to exist. There may be three reason that God allows evil to exist. God may allow evil to exist to "demonstrate His wrath" and "make His power known" and to "make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy." You are right that we can't know love but it has nothing to do with free will. The only way we can know true genuine love is when we put our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and then we know that "God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." Remember salvation is By Grace alone (Sola Gratia), Through Faith alone (Sola Fide), In Christ alone (Solus Christus) According to Scripture alone (Sola Scriptura), For God’s Glory alone (Soli Deo Gloria).
Before God opened my eyes to the doctrines of sovereign grace, I used to pray for who were not Christians saying, "Lord, please save my brother. Open his eyes to your truth. Take away his heart of stone and cause him to ask you into His life. Lord, please save Him.". After hearing my own words, I realized, as much as I wanted to say, "I chose God"; "I asked Jesus into my heart"; or "I opened the door to my heart to Jesus." I was futile in my thinking and realizing the only way my brother could be saved was for God to intervene in his "free will" and grant grace to my brother by giving him faith to biblically believe in Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior.
Hey Ragoo. I'm wanting to do a video on free-will and I'm trying to make sure I understand the Calvinist perspective. I'm wondering how Calvinists can say that we have any freedom at all if God has decreed everything that is going to happen. Could you provide any clarity?
The free will is what keeps you in bondage. You are dead in sin. The only way for you to come to salvation is if the Father draws you. It's like when Christ adked Peter who he believed Jesus was. He said thou art the Christ. Jesus responded by telling Peter the only reason Peter knew that, was because the Father had shown him. God doesn't predetermine what will happen, He has foreknowledge of it. Therefore He knows who is going to respond to His grace. Much love brothers and sisters Jesus Christ is King
@@PracticalFaith I know it's been a year and I don't know if you made your video or not, but I would recommend going to the Reformed confessions for defining Calvinist beliefs. The Westminster Confession spends all of chapter 9 on outlining man's free will, and chapter 3.1 shows how what God ordains intersects man's free will by saying that God ordains whatsoever comes to pass, and in doing so he establishes man's free will and the contingency and liberty of second causes by what he ordains. I know non-Calvinists tend to immediately see these things as opposed to each other, but the Calvinist perspective sees these things as in harmony with each other.
At the heart of the issue IS free will. More specifically and honestly more important is the pre-determination of salvation. That is truly what derails people from Calvinism altogether. Did I make the decision myself to follow Christ or did Christ make that decision for me and I'm just puppet? So, God's love really isn't for everyone? If we're all fundamentally sinful creatures destined for hell, how is it that some are "chosen" over others? If God really does choose who is saved and who isn't then why have people spread the Gospel? These are the questions that I hear almost everyday working with a Christian University in America.
I feel the exact same way. Could you give us more food for thought? Do you think we have no free will? Or do you think the free will we do have is a gift from God? Thanks
Anamaria Rodriguez, Poor girl... Calvinism is an evil doctrine..... Calvinism is a mixture of Biblical Truth and man-made Lies....... This Statement below is the base of Calvinism , See if it is not evil.... ''God arranges all things by His sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify Him by their destruction'' This Statement which is the foundation of Calvinism is evil because it CONTRADICTS the Character of God and cannot be Supported by the Scriptures.....
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo So, in your theology, when God says, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, you call that evil on God's part? Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
Revelation 3:20 KJV Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. People, in a fallen state, have to CHOOSE to do a good thing, and seek God when He's knocking at your door. Seek and you will find, there's a free will choice for everybody to make. I can see a free gift in front of me, but I can't receive it if I don't choose to reach out and take the gift that's in front of my face.
But God gives you the ability to choose the gift, because a person dead in sin will never choose God. God must first choose us in order for us to accept the gift. That is why Paul tells us not to boast, because the only thing we bring to salvation is the sin that makes it necessary. If it is up to the person to choose, then that teaches that we can boast at others for being too stupid to choose God like we did
@@bigtuna9223 Paul says there that salvation is the gift of God, not of works, and because of this you can't boast. Again, choosing to accept is NOT a work. Some accept the gift, having been made the offer, and some don't. It's not a work. If you choose to draw near to God, the He will draw near to you. Think of the banquet parable in Luke 14 where many people were invited to come, but refused to go, made excuses, and so other people outside the original guest list were invited to come in. The first group of people WERE invited, but they freely chose to refuse. The next group chose to accept. Everybody is invited, as God desires all to be saved, but some will freely choose to refuse the invitation.
@@TheGreyHollowRoad Romans 9:14-23 explains that God hardens who he chooses and has mercy on who he chooses and Paul anticipates that people will say God is unjust which is why he writes in verse 14 that he is not unjust for choosing who to have mercy on. It is put most clearly in ephesians 1:5 "he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ"
@@bigtuna9223 Yes, God lets us know that the rain falls on the just and the unjust (Matthew 5:45). The predestination would mean that God would know, from the beginning, who would choose God and who would not. The future could be written in advance, because God would know in advance. People wouldn't be specifically made FOR the purpose of going to hell, because it doesn't make sense for God to condemn people for unbelief, or plead with the wicked to change their ways: Ezekiel 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!” Ezekiel 33:11 11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? God desires that the wicked turn from their ways and live. It's God's will that people be saved, and it's also God's will for people to have free will to choose to turn (as they are made in the image of God). God doesn't want robots, and so God allows people the ability to freely resist His will. This is even the same for saved people, who still have the freedom to struggle with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30). It comes down to a person's choice to accept the gift or not. Romans 11:23 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
@@TheGreyHollowRoad it clearly says that they were made for the purpose of going to hell. Romans 9:22-23 "What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory"
God is sovereign over all. It really is that simple. To refuse the sovereignty of God in any aspect is foolishness. Another solid truth is that no man will ever be able to know the mind of God, as no man can even begin to comprehend who, or what, God truly is. Every man made understanding of doctrine is simply an attempt to understand how our Father God thinks, which can never be fully discerned. Who are we, as dirt built men, to even question our maker. To argue over doctrine is also folly as our personal relationship with our Father is not affected by our doctrinal understanding, but division with our Brothers in Christ does affect our relationship. I do not care what you think is right doctrine, if you are in Christ then you are my Brother.
Kenny Nicholson : tctctc...He who overcomes Shall not be hurt by the Second Death. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come, brother...
Arguing in favor of sound doctrine is vital, it is commanded of us. The problem comes with being drawn into endless, fruitless discussions of the cunningly devised fables which infiltrate the body of Christ (1 Tim 1:4,4:7 / 2Tim 4:4)That’s the comfort of God’s sovereignty, because otherwise we humans would turn faith into a freak show. We would handle snakes, and drink poison, and wallow about foaming at the mouth and blithering all the way to Hell.
Gerry James : I have never heard Such a thing. Pope Francis declare it doesn't exist. If you continue with MacArthur' s insane claims, I would not lose sleep over it.
Kenny Nicholson That is absolutely incorrect. So why exactly did Paul oppose Peter? What of the churches in the book of Revelation that Christ was intending to correct? Was Christ wrong when he told the woman at the well that we must worship in spirit and truth? Maybe should have not told her that. So the scriptures never warn us of false teachers? So you would have no problem with inviting Brian McLaren or some other emnergent churvch type-to come and preach/teach in your church? I hope you have some division in your spiritual life. If not, I would really encourage you to look in the bible about salvation, pray God teaches you the truth, and maybe even talking to a pastor or someone else about salvation.
Notice how he mentions St.Augustine @ 1:45 and then later he says his Arminian friend's view of human free will is not biblical @ 3:40 What he's not telling you , and what is rather ironic is that St.Augustine wrote down what he thought ought to be the Canon of Scripture. It's in agreement with what the Holy , Catholic and Apostolic church would later rule to be the bible. St.Augustine himself advocated for Wisdom of Sirach , a book in the LXX OT canon. Sirach explicitly states man has free will and control over his destiny. The reformers cut Wisdom of Sirach and a hand full of others out of the Bible that's why only Orthodox and Catholic bibles still have it.
I am not a Catholic or an orthodox and I believe Sirach is scripture. Reading it commanded my attention in a way the Scriptures did when I first read them. A way that I will never ignore.
If the will was in bondage to sin and only free to do iniquitous deeds against the will of God, why would the Holy Spirit invite "whosoever will , let him take the water of life freely?" (Revelation 22:17). Surely, the taking of the water of life is not something sinful. Oh, I see, the Holy Spirit needs to quicken the dead spirit of the elect monergistically first so that he or she may take the living water freely. That's putting the cart before the horse which has been a reformed doctrine since its inception. What about Cornelius the Centurion "A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always." Were all these things sinful because his will was in bondage to sin? Of course his good deeds could not save him and therefore needed to hear the Gospel and believe it in order to be saved. The fact remains that his will was NOT in bondage to sin. He was able to choose between doing good and doing evil.
you can be in bondage to sin and still have a free will. What R.C is saying is that your actions lean more to the evil/ selfish side when you are unsaved. Only when God saves someone does their heart change from stone to flesh which makes them sin less (notice the space in sin less)
I agree with what he's saying but there are many many people on the internet that claim to be Calvinists that don't agree with what he's saying. That is the problem people that don't know what they are talking about preaching Calvinism.
Agreed. I like to bring up the confessions, since those represent a long standing consensus view of Calvinism, rather than just hold up one preacher or one author for the definition of Calvinism. The Westminster Confession has a whole chapter about human free will (chapter 9), so it is always interesting to see how those that deny that Calvinists believe man has a free will deal with it.
Calvinism teaches God determines every act of man, to do good and to do evil. I can't imagine kneeling in front of Him on judgment day having preached He was the author of all evil. James 1:13 NASB95 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
While I was watching this video that's exactly how I understood it and I'm kind of baffled to the extent of the difference between Armenian in Calvinism as I understand it it's not our will that changes our hearts but it is our will to accept that we are sinners and it's God who changes our hearts. So theology tells us that it's our choice but it's God who changes our hearts based on our willingness to accept him. Apologize for any typos as I am driving and using my text to speech
What Calvinists don't understand is just because you read from the bible doesn't make it biblical. It's the interpretation and failure to use other scripture to support their interpretation. Example: Eph 2.1 where the word dead is the same deadness as in Luke 15: 24 and 32. Which means speration,lost
You can't have "free will" if God determined my desire , my sin, etc... and then holds me accountable for what He did. Sproul is talking out of both sides of his mouth.
But who can do that? Who can call upon the name of the Lord? Only those ones who actually understand why they need Lord in the first place and that happens only by the work of the Holy Spirit.
@@nikokapanen82 Anyone Whosever upon hearing the gospel can do it Regeneration prior to faith is not in the Bible It’s in manichean Gnosticism introduced by Augustine and expounded upon by clavin But that’s not Christian at all Men and women can and do hear the gospel And accept or reject it That’s the biblical example The ONLY example of how to get saved The Calvinist method of salvation is completely absent from the biblical text Completely
@@nikokapanen82 for instance, being regenerated means you hand the Holy Spirit and that enables you to accept the gospel according to Calvinist. The Bible says Hear abs believe Like Cornelius He sought after God without being regenerate, something sproul says can’t happen But we know he did because the Bible chronicles his prayers alms and charity God noticed and responded, sending him a messenger to tell Cornelius to send for Peter Peter preaches Cornelius believed Cornelius received the Holy Spirit Don’t let the clavinist gnostic goo get on you
@@johngodsey5327 Cornelius was clearly under the Holy Spirit long before God actually came to him. Living absent from the Holy Spirit means living a worldly life without caring about God. Like David, he was filled with the Holy Spirit and this is why he was so into God and wrote such an amazing psalms.
God Bless RC, RIP. He nailed it. God gave us volition and is a Gentleman and will not Superimpose his Will over our Choices. We have Freedom to choose, if we become curious about Salvation, the Holy Spirit will reveal the Message of the Gospel and Salvation. At that Point you can Believe that Jesus is who he said he is, or you can choose Not to believe. Those who Reject Christ, can Not be Saved and will be Judged accordingly. Those who Believe will face the Bema Seat or a "Judgement throne" where God will look at our life and sins, and Jesus will stand as our Lawyer and Say, I died for those sins, and we will be forgiven forever.
Christian theologians such as Aquinas set the record for being free in christian theology as we can only be free through Christ. If we are not in Christ we are not free. There is a difference between freedom and liberty. Naturally we have a sinful bias, but we are at liberty to sin or not sin, a bias does not decide 100% success rate of our actions, its merely an inclination. God has revealed himself through scripture, through life, through many things... God has made his move for us to recognise him, we are at liberty to accept Christ in our hearts but until we genuinely do so, we are not "free". To be free is not merely the ability to choose, that is liberty, but to be free is to choose well. And if we have genuinely chosen Christ, we have been set free.
AK Richardson yeah I agree, to be free is not merely the ability to choose, but it is achieved once we have chosen well, and that is only done through Christ. If you are not through Christ you are not free, you are a slave to your sinful desire.
@@petermulholland5241 To be able to choose Christ, one must be able to choose good, yet man is not good by his nature, he is corrupted. So i am convinced that even the ability to choose Christ, first, comes from Christ, when he fills you with the Holy Spirit which shows how badly corrupted you are and in a serious need for help and that help is Christ.
If, according to him, I hold a view of free will that is unbiblical, I can’t help it. I was determined to have a false view and there’s nothing I can do to choose otherwise. Why don’t they ever address that part of the logical outworking?
@Mark OnTheBlueRidge, I don’t understand why you can’t simply tell me what the issue with what I said is. I’m not being dishonest, that’s just the logical outworking as I see it. If I’m wrong you can just tell me why. Saying “you’re wrong, go read these people” doesn’t make for a good discussion. Also, I’m not an Arminian.
@Mark OnTheBlueRidge, well fear not. I have a book and a half I still have to read and after that I’ll be reading 3 pro-Calvinist books “Why I Am Not an Arminian” by Peterson and Williams, “The Potter’s Freedom” by James White, and “Chosen By God” by Sproul. Maybe after those 3 books they’ll stop saying I don’t understand Calvinism.
"What father holding his little girl’s hand crossing a busy street would ever let it go? The more she pulls, the tighter he squeezes. There is no way she is going anywhere! Is God any different? The argument that a person can choose hell by rejecting God as a result of 'free' will is in effect saying a little girl has more strength than her dad. God has given man a 'measure' of free will, but certainly not to the degree that He would allow him or her to damn themselves forever in torment. Is God less of a parent than we are (Matt. 7:11)? We extend increasing freedom to our children as they mature. Too much too soon is disastrous. He knows just how much freedom we need for our development." -- Gerry Beauchemin, _Hope Beyond Hell,_ 2010, pg. 38
RC was one of my favorite teachers--except he loses me when he speaks of Calvinism. Calvinists, can you help me understand this?. Is Calvinism saying we are in bondage until regenerated by the sovereign God, and then we have free will i.e., libertarian free will where we can do x or not x? Or, even after regeneration we can only do what God determines us to do...i.e., God determines all things even our thoughts and therefore we cannot really do something contrary to what God desires us to do, because God determines all things to be? Hope that makes sense.
I can’t speak for Calvinism, but this is what is usually meant by the bondage of the will in the Lutheran tradition (I’m a Lutheran-leaning Anglican). One is in bondage to sin and unable to free themselves by nature, but through the means of grace, God turns our hearts to believing trusting in him so that by that trusting faith he instills in us, we are declared righteous before God, and that declaration of righteousness is a present inauguration of the final judgement we will receive before the judgement seat of God on the last day, which is ours *so long as we remain in it*. The regenerate will is free, which includes the freedom to turn away from God, reject his grace, and perish in our sins. Essentially, one must choose to remain a Christian, though it is God who gives us the means of sustaining that faith. Lutherans believe some sins are so willful and deliberate that they can only be committed by driving out their trust in God while committing them, thereby spiritually killing themselves-mortal sins, in other words. As this all relates to predestination/election, Lutherans (and Lutheran-leaning Anglicans) are divided between conditional and unconditional views of election. Personally, I believe election is conditional and/or corporate-those individuals who are predestined are those whom God foresaw would receive the means of grace and be brought to faith by him and choose to remain Christian in their life by restraining their concupiscent sinful desires from mortal sin prior to death. The means of grace are administered by the church-the assembly of all believers spreading the Word by their own free choice. This is the crucial point-God works through the free ministry believers to make new believers, and since the such actions in ministry are free and not coerced, they are not strictly causally determined by God. Thus he foresees and predestines who will come to faith, but this predestination is logically prior to this foreknowledge. For my own part, I lean heavily toward explanations of divine foreknowledge that go under the label Molinism. So basically, this theology acknowledges the severe weakness and inability of the human will wrought by sin and attributes conversion solely to the work of God, but more or less would be in agreement with Arminian theology after conversion, especially as regards predestination as conditional election.
You say that RC was one of you favorite teachers, except that he would lose you when speaking of Calvinism…I’d like to point out that EVERYTHING RC taught was taught through the lens of Calvinistic (Reformed) theology…I’d encourage you to dig deeper into the doctrine of God’s sovereignty, especially the idea of decretive and permissive sovereignty…some things God declares or decrees “Let there be light”…and there was light! Other things God permits/allows- such as the fall in the garden…the fact that He is permissive at times in no way negates His sovereignty…
@@andrewbrowne5557 Interesting. If God determines but also allows or permits then how is that different from Arminianism or Provisionalism? Do those decision God allows mean he leaves it to man's free will i.e., in some cases he allows man to do whatever he wants to do? My understanding of God's sovereignty is that God can do whatever he wants. Is that definition complete or is there more?
@ I think perhaps we’re discussing two separate points: 1) God’s sovereignty 2) man’s ‘free’ will…God’s sovereignty necessarily includes His doing whatever He wills AND allowing whatever He wills…Man, in his unregenerate, fallen state, is ‘free’ to sin, however, he is not free to not sin…a person will always choose according to his strongest inclination…unregenerate man is always inclined to sin…an unregenerate person cannot ‘freely choose’ to exercise faith in the finished work of Jesus apart from first being regenerated, and being given the faith necessary for justification…I’m going to stop here, as this is not an adequate forum for this dialogue…I encourage you to dig into the Ligonier ministries videos of Sproul and prayerfully consider the tenets of Reformed faith…I also recommend Eric Metaxas’s biography of Martin Luther! I finished it recently, a most enjoyable, informative read! Peace of Christ!
We can all praise Mr Sproul for his devotions to God and Scripture, his explaining of the gospel is in my view always over the top and many times hard to understand (how did the simple message of free grace of the Gospel become so complicated??) as far as free will we have a new person of the Holy Spirit ( Jesus) sealed in us which cannot sin and our struggle is with the old Man flesh Romans 7! The Law of sin is dead...I'm always very cautious when a single Man (Kelvin) has an ÏSM" after their name and it changes ones thinking to theirs the book of Acts was not that complicated, Jesus said you need to be like a child to enter the gates of heaven that sounds pretty simple to me the free choice to trust by faith God's free Grace he wishes no one to perish and will not return until the Gospel has been preach to the four corners of the world, how is that not indicating that all have a free will to say yes or no?
There is a MASSIVE difference between free will and volition. Only being to ever have there will totally free is God himself. There are no outside influences directing Gods will. It is free from any outside influences. Mans will is conditional meaning he can choose between things but outside influences play a role in mans decision which is called volition. Man can choose only what his will is bound to which in this case is Sinful Nature!!!! The bible states that no man woman or child will seek after God but we only seek after God because God first seeketh after you. PERIOD
Every person in the human race has the freedom to do whatever is consistent with nature. What about things that are inconsistent with nature such as pleasing God? "...a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." So nature perverts the will. God must intervene and impart a new nature so that willing to please God becomes possible.
@@aletheia8054 a number of times. But as an outcome of the work of Christ. For example "It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery." and "For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another." So, He says that believers have freedom. They could use their freedom to serve the flesh (nature) but he admonishes believers to not do that. If believers do not have the freedom to use their freedom for the flesh, why tell them not to? Seems irrelevant, right? How about another word? Liberty. "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." and "But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak." Apparently believers can use their liberty unwisely. If they don't have that capacity, why speak about it? It would also be irrelevant.
@@Saratogan It is unusual that I run into somebody that knows where those words are. I usually have to point them out to the freewill people. Lol But if you look again, you’ll notice that every single one of them are talking about the freedom in Christ the inner man. Not the freedom in the flesh. In the flesh there is no freedom. The freedom is in Christ and in the truth.
Sproul acknowledges that we have a will that has the faculty of choosing but that the human will is in bondage to sin. He explains that our wills are enslaved to sinful passions, sinful desires and sinful disposition. This is certainly evident in the actions of ISIS, tyrant rulers and mass murders, etc. But what about the many people who have shown an unselfish concern for the welfare of others. There are many altruistic people in the world today. Doing good to others certainly does not merit Salvation but it does contradict the idea that the human will is in bondage to sin and can only choose evil. John Piper states, “Nothing that exists or occurs falls outside God’s ordaining will. Nothing, including no evil person or thing or event or deed. God’s foreordination is the ultimate reason why everything comes about, including the existence of all evil persons and things and the occurrence of any evil acts or events. And so it is not inappropriate to take God to be the creator, the sender, the permitter, and sometimes even the instigator of evil… Nothing - no evil thing or person or event or deed - falls outside God’s ordaining will. Nothing arises, exists, or endures independently of God’s will. So when even the worst of evils befall us, they do not ultimately come from anywhere other than God’s hand.” So, according to Sproul, fallen men have wills which are free but enslaved to sinful passions and yet Piper claims that God is the creator, the sender, the permitter and sometimes even the instigator of evil. It seems to me that Calvinists are very confused over the issue of man’s free will.
It's not that human nature is utterly corrupted and purely evil which cannot do anything but evil all the times. It is rather that human nature is definitely corrupted and does sin on a continual basis and the problem is, that is enough to be separated from God because God is 100% holy. So a person does not need to murder all the times to be separated from God, all you need is to entertain yourself with porn on a habitual level and that alone will keep you away from Heaven unless you get right with God. To even understand that we have this corrupted nature which is leading us to hell, we need the Holy Spirit to work in us and to be freed from this corrupted nature, we need help, divine help.
Greg Jay: How is it free will if we are in bondage? It's arguing that a person's whose hands and feet are tied can run a race. Or that someone not tied up, can't run a race. Or that we can kinda run, and can't Kinda run. The argument lacks biblical evidence. Of course what he's arguing is that since humans are in bandage, they must have God's intervention ( regenerarion) before they can come to faith. Where was Abel's intervention by God, before Abel's choice to please God? Where was Adam and Eve's intervention by God when they were obedient? Evidence, Calvinists, evidence, for your claims.
@@sheilasmith7779 I was merely pointing out the contradiction between Sproul and Piper, however, to answer your question, though I touched on this, being in bondage to sin does not mean the sinner cannot recognise he is a sinner and has broken God’s laws. The alcohol and drug addict can still recognise their addiction and they can still accept help to overcome their addiction. A sick person can make the choice to receive medical treatment or not. As Jesus said, “it is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick.” A sick person can decide if he wishes to receive the medial treatment that is offered and the sinner can decide if he wants to accept the forgiveness for sins that is offered by God’s grace. “The grace of God has appeared bring salvation to all people.” Titus 2:11
We have hidden sin. Some ppl go good deeds for the wrong reason and it is sin. And ultimately if we have an evil heart the desires evil, even if we do something truly good, it doesn't fix our corrupt nature
@@leadhesh It is very hard to break through the Calvinist mind set. The part that Calvinists don’t get is that any sick, depraved sinner can still recognise his sickness and receive help when it is offered to him. This is why Jesus said, “it is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick.” And of course we were all sick and now, thankfully, “The grace of God has appeared bringing salvation to all people.” Titus 2:11
Even after the fall of man-he has the freedom to choose his destiny whether it is good or bad. God said… “Today I call heaven and earth to witness against you that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore CHOOSE LIFE, so that both you and your offspring may live, so that you may love the LORD your God and that you may obey his voice and that you may cling to him. For he is your life and the length of your days…” (Deut.30:19-20)
True free will is the inclination and ability to never sin. Enslaved will is an inclination towards sin, and the inability to not sin. Calvinists get this part right. Where Calvinists go wrong is in their beliefs that (1) God ordained the fall, and, (2) while God could save all from slavery to sin, He only desires to save some. There is a mystery which both Calvinism and Arminianism fail to explain: How does our will and God's power relate? Its best to just take the Bible at face value: God wants to save all sinners and you are responsible for your own actions. Cling to Jesus, do your best to live a life which pleases Him, ask for forgiveness when you fail. All will be well with you if you do this. The truth will set you free, and that includes your will.
I like your definition of free will entailing that we have the potential to never sin. Jesus, the Word and God made flesh, was our perfect example of living sinless. That being said, we know that all have fallen short and have sinned, but this is the result of us failing by our own freewill.
@C R I was born into a fallen world to fallen parents, and thus doomed to a fallen state myself. But, I did not become a sinner until I committed my first sin.
@@joev2223 What is sinless perfection? The standard God holds you to today may not be the standard He holds you to in the future. You can live a life which please the Lord, with a clean conscience (Hebrews 10:22). Aside from his sin with Bathsheba, David is said to have kept all God's commands all his life (1 Kings 15:5). If David could do it, so can you and I.
Wow, that was an amazingly helpful and insightful little video. I think he is absolutely right about how noncalvinists understand and try to frame the debate on free will. That we are robots, mere puppets to a sovereign God. I have heard like Leighton Flowers go so far as to deny the reality of our sinful nature, Original Sin, and federal headship. And many of them have expressed that they are trying to rescue God from the implications of Calvinism as they see it. And I do think it can be helpful to concede to non-calvinists that Yes, our wills are free, but they are also enslaved, like Jesus said: He who sins is a slave to sin.
I don't know about what Calvin or non-Calvins believe but what I do know is that God doesn't make me do evil nor does He change me against my will to love good. I am humbled, by God. There are many ways, starting with cursing the ground for our sake, that God attempts to humble a man but if we don't humble ourselves then He doesn't force us to either. Yet, in the end, we will have no excuse as to why we didn't humble ourselves before Him, nor will they say or do anything to change the consequence that follows from resisting His calling to be humble.
@nikokapanen82 I see it as humbleness turned me to God, to save me, as this world had broken my heart, and my soul was in a state of unrest. So when I turned to Him, I was to a point where I could not rely on my way to go on and believed I should give God 100 percent of everything and allow Him to lead me and I am tifay by His grace, who I am. I knew what goodness was but how to perform that, which was good. It took God, showing me how to perform His will, which is His goodness, and now my goodness as it is His will, not my own.
1. Believing the good news message of the gospel comes by hearing it preached: Romans 10[17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 2. God has commanded that the good news message of the gospel is to be preached to all people: Mark 16[15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Luke 24[47] And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Matthew 24[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 3. If God has pre-condemned millions of people before they were born, then preaching the good news of the gospel to them is commanding them to do what they God will not allow them to do. 4. Therefore, preaching the good news of the gospel to those whom God has pre-condemned constitutes telling them a lie. 5. God cannot lie: Titus 1[2] In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;[3] But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour; 6. Therefore, since the good news of the gospel message cannot be a lie, the gospel message according to the calvinist is not the gospel message of the Bible. 7. Since the gospel message of the calvinist is not the gospel message of the Bible, it constitutes an other gospel. 8. The Word of God tells us that those who preach an other gospel are condemned for doing so: Galatians 1[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.[9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 9. Therefore, calvinism is not true and calvinist are condemned by God for preaching an other gospel.
When did we have to call ourselves Calvinist or anything. What happened to I'm am a follower of JESUS CHRIST wHich make you a Christian period nothing else
That’s kind of like saying 'I believe the Bible, and nothing else'. What does 'to be a follower of Jesus' mean? These 'labels' clarify what a person believes the Bible to teach. Somebody, obviously, has to be wrong. For the Bible doesn’t speak with a forked tongue. If we don’t grow in the truth, we will grow in error.
@@johnmoerman255, I don't think so, Calvinism is a mixture of Biblical Truth and man-made Lies..... For instance, this Statement below which is the base of Calvinism, contradicts the Character of God, and can never be supported by the Scriptures..... ''God arranges all things by His sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify Him by their destruction.''
Calvinists believe in free will, but God governs what they do. Concerning salvation, it is by God's grace and mercy, nothing to do with human will, a component of grace is the gift of saving faith, and The Lord Jesus is the author, not any fallen man who drinks sin like water and runs from the light of God. Nobody is saved based on human will. It is a false gospel called Arminianism. It is soundly refuted by Christ Himself "No man can come to me, unless it were given him of my Father"
I'm wanting to do a video on free-will but I'm having a hard time understanding the Calvinist perspective. How can you believe in any kind of freedom if God has decreed from eternity past exactly what is going to happen? Don't you believe He knows the future based only on His sovereign decree?
Wow Once again calvinist making a claim about a single verse in john. 6:45 says who are drawn. It's those who have 'heard' and 'learned' These are conditions - duh. He later says He will draw, if He is lifted up. Jesus is doing the drawing today. But not taking any other part of john 6 into account proves you don't even read the bible. The very Words of Jesus, you don't even care what He says in the rest of that chapter. What is wrong with you? I'm sorry for you Why not do your own thinking for a change. When calvinists say the things say they prove they don't know Him. No one who has been with Jesus would say the things you guys say.
He avoids discussing the Calvinist/Reformed views concerning unconditional election, limited atonement, and irresistible grace which would in fact counter his claim that Calvinists accept free will. How can we have free will if God has predetermined to whom He will extend grace and the the blessings of the atoning work of Christ?
My friend, in this video brother Sproul explains what “free will” means. We do not have the ability to choose between God and sin (before being saved). The Bible says we are dead in our sins and are slaves to sin. Instead, free will means we are free to do what we want (which sadly means sin due to our fallen nature). If you are dead, can you respond to someone? And if you are enslaved, can you freely walk away? Instead, God must revive us, must break our chains. God bless you my brother 🙏
Listen again… every choice you make is the choice you wanted to make both for the Armenian and the Calvinist. God never violates our free will, but he makes us willing to believe.
If you are maintaining your faith, you are eternally secure; if you are not maintaining your faith, you are not eternally secure. Faith is not a works; having the ability to accept or reject God is not a work.
Having faith AT ALL, is a gift from THE LORD! And if you have true faith, HE WILL keep you IN the faith! The reason we are admonished in scripture not to "turn away" or "shipwreck" our faith is because there will ALWAYS bee goats mixed in among the sheep. Tares among the wheat. So from a human standpoint, we SHOULD "make our calling and election sure." But it's not GOD who needs assurance who is truly saved. "The LORD KNOWS those who are His." It is for OUR benefit! Only TRUE Christians with Genuine faith have a concern that perhaps they were not truly saved, or that they have "fallen away." People with superficial faith have not such concerns. That's why true Christians will "Examine themselves, to see whether they are in the faith!"
@@rolysantos Faith is not a works; having the ability to accept or reject God is not a work. I have the God-given ability to accept or reject God as does everyone else. This God-given ability to accept or reject God is not a work nor an act of good works; this God-given ability to choose God starts with the Holy Spirit revealing the truth. Once the truth has been revealed (by grace), I can believe (through faith) that Jesus Christ is Lord--it is not by good works. I cannot be good enough to earn salvation. Because the ability to choose is God-given and once the Holy Spirit reveals the truth of the Gospel, then through faith (belief that the message is true) I am saved and converted. NOT ONE SMIGIT IS WORKS-BASED. My wickedness and depravity does not mean that I do not have the ability to accept or reject God. FAITH is not a work and choosing God is not a work. My conversion occurs after I accept Christ by faith and not before. What I just described is in agreement with scripture.
@@rolysantos Since the "wheat" and the "tares" look the same, how do you know that you are one of the elect? I guess you will not know until the harvest. This does not sound very reassuring.
Having heard both sides of the argument on "free will," my own conclusion is that we need to define what we mean by "free." In my view, the only human who had "free will" was Adam in his created state. He was the only one, along with Eve, able to freely choose to obey or disobey God in the Garden. We know how they chose. Since then, no human has absolute "free will." Our choices since then are influenced by our character, experience, etc. In each case, human choice is limited. I choose among limited options and based on who I am. I choose what I like based upon what's available. The grace of God through his Word can penetrate our human limitations so that we come to God, or choose God.
What Sproul is saying, as far as I can tell, is that people are free to sin (because that’s what they love) but not free to do otherwise (because of the fall). So what he’s describing is not freedom in any meaningful sense of the word. Man wants to sin because of the fall and he cannot desire anything else unless God redeems him (and then he no longer desires to sin). So what Calvinists are trying to do is abstract things by one step and say “yes, a man sins freely because that’s what he desires”. What they want to ignore is that according to their theology, God makes the desire to sin. Calvinists may say “no, God doesn’t MAKE them desire to sin” but in their understanding, God is ultimately responsible for everything. He led Adam to commit that very first sin, hence the fall. Somehow, Adam falling and corrupting all of mankind is to God’s glory. And I think that’s wrong. I think God sovereignty is revealed most completely and perfectly when He creates free creatures that can choose to follow Him or to reject Him. God does this out of His sovereignty, and He freely offers salvation to everyone through His love for all mankind. Remember...God IS love.
This is much deeper than we can fathom. Lets go to the very beginning of sin, Satan himself, why did he rebel against God? Because he fell into pride, then why did he fell into pride? Because he was so beautiful, then why God created him so beautiful? And here the answers stop. The important thing to understand here is that choosing evil over good, is not choosing spaghetti over macaoni without any harmful consequences, no, choosing evil is literally choosing to kill steal and destroy, it is choosing to cause harm and suffering to others. Now how can a good being choose to do such things? It is impossible! This is why Jesus himself said that a good tree CANNOT bear a bad fruit. So before you can choose to do evil, first, you must become evil. Satan did not choosed to rebel against God when he was good, he rebelled against God when he became evil and how a good being becomes evil is one of the greatest mysteries.
@@MrKingcarella23 When you fall into pride, that is it, you have no choices, you have no freedom, you are doomed to do only one thing and that is doing evil.
Trouble with this modern calvinism is that it denies free will even after salvation. they say, first we are in bondage to sin, but after salvation, we are in bondage to righteousness. Perserverance of the saints does this. And I would agree that before regeneration we only have flesh to guide us, but after regeneration we also have Spirit within us to guide us, and thus we are commanded to put on a new man. So after regeneration man does become free agent, with capacity to choose good or bad because there are still within him both new and old man.
Free will is a meaningless concept that explains absolutely nothing. Will is the capacity to choose, but what are the basis of your choices? Your desires, ofcause. Your desires determine your choices, not the other way arround. Sin has corrupted us with deceitful and self destructive desires. _That_ is why no one can turn to God unless God regenerates him and give him new desires that is pleasing to God.
How then will God judge people who obeyed him by not believing the gospel because he himself stopped them from it? In other words unbelievers are greatest believers of God who never gave them the grace to believe. Shut up you idiots. You robot minded Calvinists. Read bible without preconceived idea.
@DGK284 Scripture does not reveal that. It says a lot more about humans in their fallen state than in our unfallen state. But we do know oneday, on the New Earth in our new glorified bodies, we will be incapable of sinning and have no desire to sin.
@@Hannodb1961 Thanks for the reply. My questions underscore the failure of attempts to resolve the free will mystery by stating that it's simply the freedom to follow desire when the origin of that desire is ignored. I don't believe that God builds disobedient desires into us, but I haven't seen Calvinists successfully argue that God is not the ultimate origin of evil if he is the *final* cause of all creation, including our decisions. My own view is best expressed by Christian philosopher Peter Van Inwagen: free will is a mystery, though it's a deeper mystery to believe that we don't have it. Here "free will" is the ability to choose without being *completely* conditioned by the past.
" @hardcoreveritas5648 "God is going to hold man responsible for the choices he has made. For him to only have the ability to choose sin would make God unjust. " How is it unjust for God to give a sinner exactly what the sinner deserves? What Arminians miss in this is that ALL HAVE SINNED. EVERY ONE OF US deserves to go to the lake of fire for all eternity. God does not OWE anyone salvation, and He does not owe anyone any CHANCE at salvation. God would be perfectly just to allow generation upon generation to be born into this world and to send every one of them to eternal judgement without ever offering them salvation. That would be perfect JUSTICE. Further, because He would be just to send ALL to the lake of fire, He is ALSO perfectly just to give salvation as a free gift to only a select few of His choosing. Giving it to SOME does NOT obligate Him to give it to ALL, or even to offer it to all.
Some will say “a dead man can’t do anything, so how could he choose Gods offering of salvation?”. Yet Jesus said in John5:25 “The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live”: so Jesus confirmed that a dead man can hear, and that if the dead hear his voice they will live. (So a dead man can indeed hear and if he hears Jesus then he will live) Jesus coming into the world expanded the will of dead men and their capacity to choose. It is obvious we didn’t choose him hence the reason why we were dead, but God came and chose to offer us the Gift of life, if we so choose to receive it. He chose dead men to be the ones given the offer of salvation, adding something new to the current list of what a dead man has the ability to choose, which is the gift of Eternal Life
Who where begotten of God from the new ! You have not refuted anything ◄ John 1 ► 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Hey built4speed101. I'm wanting to do a video on free-will and I'm trying to make sure I understand the Calvinist perspective. I'm wondering how Calvinists can say that we have any freedom at all if God has decreed everything that is going to happen. Could you provide any clarity?
@Dd S I discussed this with a Calvinist friend and he kept referring to the permissive decree. It seemed that he essentially meant the same thing by that term that I do when I say "free will". So in that sense I guess I really don't have much of a problem with it.
If God does not coerce man into doing anything against his will, what do we make of God sending Jonah to Nineveh by way of the fish? Even when Jonah finally did what God told him to do, he did so grudgingly. How then is this not God coercing Jonah to do what He wanted him to do?
The incoherence of this is that Calvinism doesn't really postulates that we are the ones willing or wanting but that it is God that implanta those wants and moves our will. So the problem remains: Calvinism does deny free will.
RC Sproul is so quotable when disproving Calvinist. “No, we aren’t robots” then proceeds to describe robotic behavior. Utterly insane. May God have mercy on him.
What do you do with what Paul writes in Romans, addressing that exact point you are trying to make? That it does not depend on man's desires or efforts, but on God who has mercy. And this section is speaking about being God's Children a direct correlation to Salvation. Romans 9 6 It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.” 10 Not only that, but Rebecca’s children were conceived by one man, our father Isaac. 11 Yet before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad, in order that God’s plan of election might stand, 12 not by works but by Him who calls, she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 So it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses: “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. 19 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
Works don't save you, but faith is not a work, that is the disagreement. People can choose to accept or reject Christ without it being a work. I use Romans 3:27@@herrera3499
Romans 9-11 has a very happy ending: "God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all. … From Him, and through Him and to Him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a)
That's a fallacy to say that fallen creatures does not have the capacity to freely repent or have faith in God, because Jesus said "repent" and He said that to "everyone" not the elect only. Meaning everyone has the capacity to "repent" or to "believe". God will never require someone of something that he/she is not capable of doing. John 3:16 is a basic truth that even in the fallen state, God didn't took away our freewill to believe. That's a complete lie to say we have no freewill.
His definition of freewill is according to what the Bible speaks about. We are volitional creatures and our wills are active, but consistent with our object of bondage either to sin or to Christ.
So, if it your decision to believe and your salvation is based upon your own decision, then a year from now you just might decide NOT to believe. WOW. I'm glad my salvation rest with God's decision and not mine because I don't trust my sinful nature for the best 15 minutes of my life. Let's just take a brief look at the people in the bible who chose God...(crickets). The apostle Paul didn't choose God, God chose him. Moses didn't choose God, God chose him. All of the disciples were chosen by God. God chose Jacob not Esau. It is very simply explained in Romans 9.... I always get a kick out of you guys when I ask them what the biblical view of "Election" is and then I ask them what the Bible means concerning "Predestination". Believe it or not some of them don't even know that these are real Biblical subjects and the ones who have heard about it try to go to any depths to explain it away. Especially Baptist. There explanations sound like the White House Press Secretary trying to "spin" there way out LOL. God regenerates the heart and then we choose God. NOT the other way around.
@@museumjunkie9317 wrong, do not put words in my mouth, I did not say that "salvation is based upon your own decision", i said "God did not took our freewill to believe". That's a strawman argument. Also, Romans 9 does not teach salvation. As a matter of fact Romans 9-11 teaches about God choosing Israel to be His "Servant" and to be an example to other nations. The people you've mentioned are chosen for a special purpose. God's choice for these people to serve Him, does not necessarily mean that the whole world will not be saved, as a matter of fact, contrary to that, they were chosen to be the bearer of truth so that others will be saved. Now, the part of Romans 9 that says, "Jacob I love and Esau I hate", means that God chose Jacob rather than Esau. Chosen for what? Salvation? No. Romans 9:23...that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory... God's sovereignty does not take away man's responsibility. Even John McArthur admits that in this sermon on John 3.
@@whatisthetruth6901 It's funny that you didn't mention the vessels of wrath that the Lord made for just that purpose. And when you say the whole world to be saved, do you mean Universalism?
Forget the free will, if my own free will leading me to hell and my sins enslaving me. Ill put my heart, my faith and all my will submitted to God and Jesus and Holy Spirit because thats the way of Life and Heaven.
The Bible is clear that God allows all accountable humans to choose their own final destination. Throughout the Scriptures, we see God placing before humans the ability to determine their own destiny. Moses wrote: “I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life” (Deuteronomy 30:19). Jesus’ statement in Matthew 7:13-14 about the narrow and wide paths included the idea that His listeners had the ability “to enter” whichever path they chose. Joshua underscored this idea of choice when he declared to the Israelites, “And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve” (Joshua 24:15).
Bob Free. We choose. We choose on the basis of who we are. But we do not choose who we are. We do not choose our nurture or nature or what grace God does or does not give us. If God wants us to obey His Law He gives us the grace to obey and if wants to prove that we are sinners incapable of obeying the Law without Christ's enabling then He withholds His grace. Choice exists for us but free choice assumes we can step aside from how we were made.
bob your citing what God is telling his people, not unbelievers. Israelites were already God's chosen people, they are not trying to become God's people, they already are. However not everyone in Israel was the true Israel. Paul explains in Romans that's not the man that wills but God that has mercy.
You can choose a particular course of action, but that does not mean that it was truly your choice... we only have a small amount of free will which is derived from consciousness.
@@bobfree1226 @Bob Free There are generally considered to be two sorts of grace. A] Common grace is given to all. It is the gift of life in the biological sense. Lungs to breath, brains to think, friends to share with and all the basic requirements of survival like food, warmth and shelter. These are given to all people by God. Praise Him. But B] Is everyone saved? Is everyone going to go to Heaven? Saving grace is grace to believe in Jesus, to trust Him and walk with Him. We are saved by faith in Him but do we make that faith or are we given it?John 1v3 says man cannot create. "All things were made by God" including saving grace. You ask for a verse , John 1v3 means man is never the first cause in any chain of events. The trouble is half way along a chain one it may be difficult to see the first link.
I liked RC SProul a lot. He helped me in my walk with Christ, but his soteriology view was very confusing. I started calvinist, but once you dig deeper and listen carefully to what proeminent Calvinists are saying, it just doesn't stand.
So he spent God knows how many years in academic study, just so he could come to the conclusion that people are free but not free. Thank God I never got sucked into a seminary.
@@jonpool9030 Jesus used parables about farming, fishing, a lost coin, and so forth to express spiritual truths. Paul wrote about "the simplicity" of the Gospel. If that makes them "infantile" in the eyes of the establishment, I'm happy to stand with them in the same category.
@@TheMICMusicInspirationChannel what are you talking about? What does Jesus using parables and Paul's exposition of the gospel have to do with your infantile statement?
@@TheMICMusicInspirationChannel there's no irony here at all. You mad an infantile statement and then tried equating it with the parables of christ and the the exposition of the gospel by Paul.
Genuine observation: Stated human will is fallen yet "Free from external coercion" - but then isn't God coercing a change, as an external 'force', therefore negating that concept? As stated in video, due to the fallen nature, humans have the ability to willfully sin and reject God. By that measure, if God chose you to be predestined, you couldn't have free will, even in bondage, to sin and reject Him... because God, as an external influence, is overwriting that enslaved free will. How could you know you're ever actually saved if, evidently, God allows you remain in a fallen state i.e. capable of sinning, and yet, such a state is linked to the ability to willfully reject God, again as stated in video. Incorrect / correct ?
@@snoopycharlie8718 Exactly! I had a lengthy conversation with a die hard Calvanist in this video comments section last week. I decided to put it to a swift end by showing him how self-defeating his worldview was. I said "ok, you are right and i am wrong. I was blind and now I see. There is no free will, and I am predestined to be in hell. Cool, so what's next?" He promptly deleted the conversation when he realized how stupid he was to try and persuade someone who, by his own theology, was predestined by God to disagree with him from before time began 🤣
@@justindavis2711 Really? Wow. It's mad how strongly the elect think they're the chosen few yet never seem to consider, what if they are only predetermined to think they are the elect, but in actual fact, are going to be used as an example of what happens to those with lofty assumptions/ prideful theology.
@@justindavis2711 Calvinism, if understood properly, should make NO practical difference in how one lives out their life. If he was suggesting you were predestined to hell, he was wrong for saying such. Under this doctrine, there is no way for humans to know whether they or anyone else is elect or not. Under this doctrine the actions of the elect are ultimately responsible for the carrying out of God's plan. There should be no person we cease evangelizing to out of an assumption they're not part of God's elect, because we have absolutely no way of knowing that part of the plan. The Arminian and Calvinist perspectives should produced absolutely NO change in how we approach spreading the Gospel.
Bill- Yes they did. You could say they had true free will because they were not tainted by Sin until the fall. When they sinned,they died spiritually.Sin entered in and man's will is now in bondage to sin because of that fall.
Thanks for responding Teemu. I'm not sure that your views of Adams choice represent the classical view of Calvinism (if you mean true libertarian freedom), though I confess I like your view a lot better. I do think you will find that most full on five point Reformed peeps hold that Adam's choice was "predestined as well," (a la Gordon Clark) but I would love to be wrong on that one. The idea is that a truly free bifurcated choice would mean that God could go this way or the other way, which would represent a change in his nature. I don't believe that, but that is what has been the articulation when I have discussed the issue with others. I also realized that "Calvinism" has a wide field of meaning, and there are many divergent beliefs within Reformed theology. I believe it was RC that said, "if there is one molecule in the Universe that is free, God is not sovereign." Thought I could be wrong in my attribution. Still, thanks for your straightforward response. While I am not a Calvinist, if it is granted that Adam's choice was truly free, the view at least has logical coherence.
Just so you guys know what one of your major representatives believes. ua-cam.com/video/nSSLLpVChng/v-deo.html Glad to see you all don't feel that way.
Any human has the conditioned will of a created being, by virtue of being created. God alone has "free" or unconditioned will. "Man's heart devises his way, but the Lord directs his steps."
We are free in Christ, otherwise we are in the bondage of sin. When in the bondage of sin we make choices shaped by the will of sin, when in Christ we make choices shaped by the will of Christ. He is not saying we have “free” will but a will that is either in the chains of sin or set free by Christ to overcome sin. Romans talks of this.
I think I fully agree with every word of him and just taking him by his explicit words, I don't understand where he's disagreeing with or refuting Arminianism. Arminians believe the fullness of original sin. They can't renew themselves (!) but they still have to allow God to do it for them. That's totally different from rejecting the bondage of original sin.
Sproul is the first preacher that I heard teach it like the Bible said it. This is correct teaching. This is how the Holy Spirit gave it to me several decades ago..
I believe a lot of disagreement lies in the view of free will. When I talk to people about this the moment I start talking about acceptable definitions they stop talking to me. Not all, but the majority do. So if you can't properly define what you mean by free will you aren't seasoned enough to have the conversation yet. You haven't considered it enough to actually engage the topic. I have a few definitions, examples, and details I use to try to get an understanding of why two sides are in disagreement but when I present them I honestly believe everyone must logically default to my second defintion which actually unifies both sides in the sense of they actually both hold conceptually the same idea of free will. Though I wouldn't call it "free" will as much as I would call it something like Conscious will.
I think the disagreement happens because Calvin taught God was an evil being who made people just for the pleasure of sending them to hell. Definitions of free will can vary. But deciding to punish LOTS of people just because God didn't feel like calling them, so God is absolutely denying them freewill, however you want to define it. If they cannot come to God without being called, and God capriciously doesn't call them, then they lack any will to accept God. And pray tell, why are we sinful? Who made us? Is God really so evil that he makes people who are incapable of following God, and then God damns them for not following? Does that kind of God deserve our worship? The pagan gods were more concerned about humanity than that!
MrSammy haha. when free will is being talked about, what theology is asking is if "man has the ability to convert himself to God". is man (unbeliever) enslaved to sin as the Bible teaches or not.
@@Solideogloria00 They have lost and denied the obvious fact we are sinners by nature not conduct and not choice. A sinful/sin-filled nature will never choose God who removed himself and can only be approached by belief-FAith. No 1 can come to the Son unless the father calls Him. False charletans have abounded in every generation, just crazy to think these people will try to tell God they are saved! Totally ridiculous hahaha!
@Steven Irizarry Of course they include themselves to be elect since they are followers of Christ. According to their belief, no one can begin to follow Jesus unless he is chosen by God to follow Jesus, so according to their belief, every genuine follower of Christ is elect.
@Steven Irizarry Yes, of course not every calvinist is a true believer, not every christian in general is a true believer. Yet i believe why many calvinists believes they are elect is because they have experienced the fundamental change in their life after Jesus came and pulled them out of the pool of worldliness. They look at their old friends, they look at their relatives and see how all of them are still there, still in the world, drinking, cursing, fornicating, satisfying their sinful desires while they are no longer living like that and they know it was Jesus who set them free from such lifestyle. So they are different, set apart, sanctified and separated from sinful world.
Sproul made a terrible error that humans can only choose that which is evil because of the sinful nature. In Joshua 24:15, Joshua asked the people to make a choice whether to worship idols or God. The people chose to serve the Lord. Even after Joshua said they are not able to serve the Lord, they still reply they will serve the Lord. Here is a good example the people can exercise their free will to chose to serve God. There is no mention of God intervening by giving any irresistible grace to turn them around. Therefore Sproul was wrong that men cannot choose God.
who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal, 2.Tim 1:9 You can choose the good but you will never love it from your heart and will drop it after a while. That was not a good counterargument!
@@JESUS_Saves3747God's purpose was His redemption of mankind which He had planned before He created anything. He accomplished by sending Jesus to die for our sins, which is His grace because we cannot save ourselves by our works. Grace is not picking and choosing who to save and who not to save. If we cannot choose what is good then why Paul tells the church to walk in the spirit and not to walk in the flesh. Wouldn't that be our choice to choose to let the Spirit lead us to walk according to His will. The New Testament repeats many times that we are to choose that if we love Him we must obey what He commanded. Therefore if we cannot choose what is good then why would God tell us to follow Him and love Him and obey His command. All these are personal choices.
This is why it is so important to have a right understanding of Romans 7 in light of Romans 6 thru 8. In Romans 7, the Apostle takes us through his life, when he was born and was alive, then when he heard the commandment, and sin came to life and slew him, then his struggle against sin, his desire to keep the Law as a Pharisee, but his inability to do so because of his fallen nature that was in bondage to sin, then his desperate cry for deliverance from his body of death, to the liberating power of the Good News in Romans 8, where he is set free from the law of sin and death, and now able to walk by the Power of the Spirit and not in bondage to sin and death through the weakness of his flesh. This is a beautiful and clear teaching of man's entire condition from birth, to spiritual death, to rebirth and eternal life in Christ. However, it is obscured by incorrect teaching that because Paul uses the present tense in Romans 7 (called a historical present), he must be referring to his life as a Christian, even though the man in Romans 7 is completely defeated, and in no way saved, as is clear by comparing his condition to that of the Christian life set for in Romans 6 and Romans 8. RC Sproul teaches that man does what he wants to do, this is in complete contradiction to what Scripture teaches, and also to the entire experience of humanity. We are called slaves of sin, not because we want to sin, but because we are bound by it. Now understand I am not saying that man does not sin wilfully, that is how man gets bound to sin in the first place, and why we all stand guilty before God. We are tempted and led astray, not fearing God or believing Him when He warns us that we will die, and so we engage in a sinful action like the foolish young man in Proverbs who is enticed by the wicked woman and ensnared. And once ensnared, no matter how hard we struggle against it, we cannot escape, and indeed each time we succumb to temptation and sin willfully the bonds of sin grow ever stronger. "Oh, Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?" Thank God then, that He does not leave us there in Romans 7, bound to the Law of Sin and Death, but rather as we see in Romans 8: "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you (or me) free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, 'Abba! Father!' The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs-heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him."
B E O W U L F Wow. That was way off. I will let Jesus prove you wrong, “Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.” John 8:34-36 ESV Every person is a slave to sin. Dead. Until God makes a person born again with the Spirit. “And you were 💀dead💀 in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-” Ephesians 2:1-2 ESV What can a dead man do?..........Just stink. Roger
@@shopson6991 Both you and Beowolf quoted from scripture, and scripture does not contradict scripture. We really are in bondage to sin just as Jesus said, and we really are dead in sins as Paul says in Ephesians 2 (that is, before we believe and are set free and made alive). These verses don't contradict Romans 7, but actually speak to the same thing. Where you err is when you equate being dead in sin with an inability to recognize our need for Jesus and to believe in him. What does being dead in sin actually look like from the Bible? A lot like Romans 7. For example, here: "I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin, which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? " (Romans 7:21-24) Notice he recognizes his sin and describes his bondage to sin as like being trapped in a body of death. Being dead in sin also looks like the condition of the prodigal son before he returned home, as seen when the father said," This my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found." (Luke 15:24) All the scriptures are consistent.
@@sammig.8286 being dead in sin is being dead in sin. You can’t say Jesus is Lord without the Holy Ghost. You can’t come to the Son unless drawn by the Father. “You did not choose me but I chose you.” Where did Lazarus choose to be resurrected. And how blessed in the WANT for Christ. Where do you think that comes from because that certainly is not a choice, just like you don’t choose who you fall in love with.
It doesn't get any clearer than this. Excellently explained. I wish I could remember how to explain this to our Arminian brothers and sisters as clearly as this. Maybe I yet will. 😊
Why do you want to explain it to your so called Armenian brothers? What do will it do? Do you think they will hear you and believe? How can they? Or mabey you are not sure if you are right.
Read The Potter's Promise. His representation of non-Calvinist isn't correct. There is no biblical basis for 'dead' being 'corpse like' vs the correct definition of 'being separated from God'. Lazarus isn't a soteriology story and he was saved prior to dying the first time. The prodigal son and the parable of the wedding feast are soteriology stories.
@@huntsman528 My brother I can only say you have your theology mixed up. No wonder it is confusing you. I would listen to more of Sproul, Martin Lloyd Jones and our puritan brothers as well as Paul in Romans. If you can't accept epistles penned by Paul in their exegetical context then only the Holy Spirit can convince you but what Sproul teaches here is every bit as scriptural as it should be. You just aren't able to see it yet. In time you will, whether this side of glory or the other. I've been on the side of Arminius and I don't care to go back there. He taught unscriptural nonsense concerning predestination. Almost heretical and would be if it were brought to its logical conclusion.
@@leekellettjr441 I am sure the Bible is right in its theology and yes I am sure that Sproul taught sound biblical theology. He has sat under the legacy of some of the soundest and greatest theologians there ever have been. Paul the apostle being one of His teachers but greater than Paul is the Christ, the Son of the Living God who taught Paul the apostle by the power of God's Holy Spirit. We must go on to maturity and stop arguing proudly about who is right. Follow Christ and grow in the fruit of the Spirit then you will understand what this man, Sproul is saying and see how the Lord uses his legacy to draw you closer to Him through His Word and the rightly divided doctrines of His Word.
@@angeladyson7367 I am not an Arminian, I am a traditionalist/provisionist. No where in the Bible does it teach Absolute Inability. Jacob Arminius accepted this. The Bible definitely teaches human depravity, but nowhere does it say we are unable to respond to the living Word of God, to the Gospel. The thing capable of piercing "the division of soul and of spirit". If you want to argue with your non-Calvinist brotheren, then you need to read The Potter's Promise. Being in an echo chamber won't convince them. You need to be able to speak to the points of the book. "For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."
Let me see if I have this straight, God created an entire world of people, in His image, who hate Him, who are His enemies, picks some to not hate Him and…. to bring Him glory, He torments the rest for all eternity? ?
@@TheMICMusicInspirationChannel I guess he failed then bcuz there's ppl in hell. John 3:16 in greek for "whosoever" is "all the believing". Christ only died for his sheep and his bride.
@@TheMICMusicInspirationChannel am not a Calvinist, but it has a biblical ring... Jesus says who ever the father sends to him will be save, and paul said he was chosen before the foundation of time... Esu and Jacob... God said Esu I hate, Jacob I love... This is before they where born
@@luantrading1866 First of all, it's ESAU. Second, that doesn't mean that God literally preemptively determined that Esau would be damned, only that Jacob would be the greater of the two. Ultimately, you have to face 1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, Joshua 24: 15, and more. Not to mention the intuitive fact that a god who would create someone just for the purpose of blinding them to truth, denying them the opportunity to obey him, and tormenting them forever would be an evil god. He would basically have to deliberately prompt them into stubborn sinfulness, which the Bible says God doesn't do.
And yet the Bible says this. Deut. 30:19 "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live" Joshua 24:15 "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; ..." Proverbs 1:29 "For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:" John 7:17 "Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own." Rom. 10:9 "If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
"But it is said, that if man be not wholly free, his goodness is but a mechanical thing. If so, I reply, better ten thousand fold mechanical goodness that keeps one at the side of God for ever, than a wholly unrestrained freedom which leads to the devil. But the assertion is in fact as hollow as it is plausible. [Man's not having absolute free will doesn't make him a machine.] Freedom enough is granted to resist God for ages; freedom to suffer, and to struggle; to reap what has been sown, till, taught by experience, the will of the creature is bent to the will of the Creator. If all this does not involve a freedom that is real, though limited, then human words are vain as a vehicle for human thought." --- Thomas Allin, _Christ Triumphant,_ 1905, Annotated by Robin Parry edition, chapter 2 --------------- "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive ... God [will] be all in all." (1 Cor. 15:22,28)
What he is saying is true. But this grace that frees us from our bondage to sin is given to all through Christ. We have to accept it. We would never be saved if it were not for the Grace of God.
Does regeneration come before faith? Or faith after regeneration? Give scriptures. Most believe exactly as he said that only God can change us. This is not the point of contention. Is not the Gospel enough to lead one to the cross and salvation? Is not the Word of God sufficient? To show us the truth? Now, in itself that will never save. Only God saves. But salvation is conditional on that we say we believe that 1. God's way is right 2. That Jesus paid the price and rose again (I.E took our place) So in effect we let go of trying to save ourselves and say "God only you can save". From there we are born again, our Spirit Man renewed adopted to His family. Not by what we have done but by very decree of God. God has decreed that we will be saved by / through faith. Eph Chapters 1 and 2. Read it completely. Read how we are elect in Christ. I.E if we are saved we are the elect. Now if you argue that that faith can only come by God putting it there then you have a big problem. 1. Where does it say God will give you faith to believe to salvation(not increased faith) 2. If God has to cause our salvation - choose us to believe then would it not follow that although we choose to sin we could never choose God because God never choose us. It would then follow we would have an excuse for our sin because God did not choose us. 3. All the scriptures both old and new that require us to respond to the Word of God. Jn 3:16 Jos 24:14-15 No doubt Calvinist's love God, but consider this, do Atheists know what is right and wrong? If we can choose to do what is right why can't we choose to believe? How is that a paradox? I believe in a God who wants all to be saved. The Gospel is good news for all! Just do a search, faith always proceeds regeneration. We trust in God alone and not ourselves. Faith for salvation is only the act of saying not me but God. Only He can transform us. God bless, bottom line is we are saved by Grace through faith. Only God can save us. Hallelujah!
Man you are so confused are you not? and the gospel is so simple you dont understand because you don't have the God given light. Christ did not die for everyone and He does not want all to be saved that's heretic reprobate synergistic will worship teaching., You don't make a choice for Christ by your own free will. What nonsense is that.
@@HKFromAbove No, free will idolater reprobate pagan ain't worth the effort, waisted time. You have no light and remain willfully ignorant. Goodluck on your broadway.
And besides don't be lazy read the holy scripture you can do that yourself it ain't not dificult..But then again....you need light and you can't get light unless given by the grace of God. I'll give you a verse, now pay attention and listen "Psalm 65:4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple."
Shoutout to Robert Barclay the great Quaker Theologian "First we may call this doctrine(Calvinism) a novelty, seeing that for the first four hundred years after christ there is no mention of it. The first foundations for it were in the writings of Augustine, who, in his warring against Pelagius, let fall some expressions which some have unhappily picked up to the establishment of this error."
Augustine wasn't writing in a vacuum. He was influenced by Fathers who taught before him. Augustine opposed a doctrine that had never been taught before, pelagianism. That people are born innocent, that people are capable of sinlessness, and that our works justify us. Augustine opposed that with the opposite doctrines, he did not invent them. They were biblical. And the Church Fathers preceded Augustine's teaching the correct mode of salvation.
Yes, this How do they Calvinists explain how people are able to choose "good" acts before being saved and why after God gives us a new nature we continue to sin..? We have no ability to be sinless. However, choosing God doesn't save us or make us sinless. Only Christ's atonement does that. People (old and new testament times) could choose all they want but until Christ's death and resurrection, we would have been just as lost and damned as before choosing God.
At least he admits it’s from Augustine and not from the Bible. The Bible tells us to drink the cup of salvation. The Bible says to turn from your sin. We most certainly have free moral agency. Of course all good comes from God and that includes your choice to choose Christ, both are true. God has dominion over us and God has given us free moral agency. Adam could have not sinned. The Jews could have not turned away from Him at Sinai and each of us now in our everyday lives must choose Him or sin. Calvin himself said Salvation is available to ALL men. Today’s Calvinism is all hyper. TULIP is not biblical and it’s been proven many times over. The Calvin vs Armenian debate is a false paradigm. Be a Biblical Christian period 1Corinithians Chapter 1 do not be “of Calvin”. Limited atonement and irresistible grace are false doctrines. There are false prophets who commit damnable heresies who were bought by the Lord but yet they have turned away and rejected Him 2Peter Chapter 2. Today’s Calvinism like so many other false doctrines only look at the part of the Bible that fits with their view, they do not subjugate their view to the entirety of the Bible. If you think you are Calvinist you are not enlightened above the rest of the body of Christ, you are believing in a false doctrine and you are responsible for that. Repent and be of Christ and Christ alone, not of Calvin. Be a Biblical Christian not a Tulip or doctrines of grace Christian.
If limited atonement is heresy, than do you believe that the wrath of God for the sins of all those who are not saved is poured out twice, once on Christ on the cross and again in the final judgment on those who ultimately end up being lost? And further are those who hold to a Calvinistic systematic theology unregenerate and false brethren whom are therefore accursed?
very well said an the many reasons why i left this senseless line of thinking in calvanism,especailly the L in Tulip,which even the earliest of Reformers rejected and wrote so much against it!!
@@risingdawn5788 Almost ALL early Reformers not only rejected it, but wrote extensively against Limited Atonement. i would suggest you do research on it like i did. look it up friend.
Free Will has always meant within a given scope you have a choice. Otherwise you are a robot. Since you assert we have absolutely no free Will in responding to God calling us, then we do not possess free Will in that scope, therefore we are robots. I do understand the point he makes that we freely choose to sin, but that scope is not being referred to in debates about free Will, the scope is about responding to God calling us. You don’t get the privilege to redefine the scope of free will when we are referring to the literal message of the Bible, which is that we should “choose to follow Jesus”.
@@jcr4runner Not sure I understand your first statement. If I did not mentally assent to believing the chair would hold me, then I would never sit on it. In reading verses such as Acts 16:31, where the derivative "believe" (belief) is used, then isn't faith the exercise by the creature, of that belief? Was the centurion in Matthew chapter 8 exercising by his free will, belief or faith? In this account, why did Jesus "marvel" at this man's faith if the total source of the centurion's declaration was Jesus Himself?
If one believes Jesus accomplishes the exact same for ALL, and nothing more, this would mean that people, who end up in heaven, are not there because of what Jesus did... because... he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for those who end up in hell! This would mean that those who are in heaven are there because of something other than what Jesus accomplished! If this is true then Jesus does not save anyone! This would mean you are saved by “something other than Jesus”... if you end up in heaven!
Chapter 3 - Of God’s Eternal Decree. Section 1.) God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass:(1) yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,(2) nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.(3)
R.C. Sproul: one of the most beautiful mind in Christian theology. Yet he was one of the most inconsistent Calvinist. As a non Calvinist that's why I liked him.
R. C. was quite inconsistent with 'Calvinism' if by that you mean some of the grossly inaccurate descriptions of Reformed Theology you see promulgated by the less scrupulous anti-Calvinists. But for anyone familiar with the confessions and the history of Calvinism, R. C. is quite consistent with Calvinism.
I would explain in such a way that an oral learner could understand. About 2/3 of the world are oral learners. Think about how long America were oral learners. During the time scripture was written about 98-99 percent were oral learners and everything they knew was memorized and transmitted orally. I explain the sovereignty of God and the free will of man like the farmer who determined the pasture he decided to put the cows in but the cows were free to choose to eat wherever they wanted. In scripture are many commands and the choice to obey or not obey has positive or negative consequences.
All he’s doing is changing or as he said he and Calvinist have a different definition of free will Normal free will means the ability to choose either way. His definition is the ability to do what you want. Can you catch the difference? In his view you literally can not do want you don’t want to do. the only reason you can only do what you want to do(sin) is because when sin enter into the human race it put our will in bondage that we can’t do anything but what the will wants,. This is not classical free will. But it makes sense in the overall Calvinist belief system
I honestly haven’t studied up on Arminianism so I can’t speak for what they believe. But I can say that although I like some of Sproul’s teachings, I greatly disagree with his teaching or the Calvinist teaching on “free” will. It seems that the Calvinist teaching allows for a person to have free will to do whatever they want, but not to accept the gift of salvation that God offers. They make it out to be that God chooses you save some but chooses not to save others. My question for Calvinist is, (and I’m really asking to get a handle on the teaching), if three people heard the gospel, two accepted the gospel when they heard it, does that mean that God gave both the faith to believe so that they could be saved and the third person He did not give the faith so that person would still be lost? And if God decides not to allow that person the ability to have the faith to be saved; then that person is lost for eternity? Is that the teaching?
How do Calvinists explain how people are able to choose "good" acts before being saved and why after God gives us a new nature we continue to sin..if we can't choose against our nature? It's true that we have no ability to be sinless. However, choosing God doesn't save us or make us sinless. Only Christ's atonement does that. People (old and new testament times) could choose -- had faith -- all they wanted to but until Christ's death and resurrection, we would have been just as lost and damned as before choosing God.
Our free will is limited in many ways. None of us chose our our parents, their religion or lack thereof, our nationality, our physical and mental health, M or F, etc. etc. etc., all of which affect our decisions including the most important one. Joseph didn't choose the events that led to his becoming second in command in Egypt. Jonah's travel plans were altered. And so on. With God's it's different: "My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish _all_ my purpose" (Isaiah 46:10). God wants everyone to be saved and go to heaven, BTW (Luke 19:10, John 17:2, 1 Timothy 2:3-6). God is all-wise. Like a chess master who plays against a novice, He doesn’t force any of the novice's moves, but He always wins. It will usually take longer than a lifetime, but God will search for the hundredth (lost) sheep UNTIL he finds it. Here's who God chooses: " *God* has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. … From him and through him and to him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a). "For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, *but because of him who subjected it,* in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God." (Romans 8:20-21). --------------- Also see John 12:32, Rom. 5:18-19, 8:19-21, 11:32,36, 14:11, 1 Cor. 15:22,28, Eph. 1:10, Phil. 2:10-11, 3:21, Col. 1:20, 1 Tim. 4:10, Titus 2:11, 1 Pet. 4:6, 1 John 2:2, 4:14, Rev. 5:13, 15:4, 21:5,24-25, 22:2, combination of (Rev. 22:1,14-15,17a,17c), Psalm 22:27,29, 65:2-3, 145:10a, Isa. 25:6-8, 45:22-25, 57:16, Lam. 3:22,31, Ezek. 16:53,55, Mal. 3:2-3, The Total Victory of Christ videos.
Ok, i understand we cannot get saved by free will, but what about other decisions? When we chose a spouse, did God cause that? How about what house to buy? What to invest in? I lost all my money on bad investment...did God cause that ordain it?
Mr. C Yes God did ordain it. Acts 17v26. God....has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings. Nations are made of individuals and in this verse Paul is telling unsaved people that God is in charge of the details of all the individuals that make those nations.
R.C. Sproul is not addressing the real issue that Calvinism asserts. According to Calvinistic compatibilism that most Calvinists hold to, we will what we will but God determines what we will. God foreordains the Fall of man is the will of each man. The Founding leader of the Westminster Theological Seminary J. Gresham Machen states the problem: “We have said that God has foreordained whatsoever comes to pass. The sinful actions of sinful men are things that come to pass. Yet we deny that God is the author of them and we put the responsibility for them upon man… How can we possibly do that? Are we not involving ourselves in hopeless contradiction?…How can a Holy God, if he is all-powerful have permitted the existence of sin?...” “The answer is found in the fact that although God foreordains whatsoever comes to pass, he causes the bringing of those things to pass in widely different ways. He does not cause the bringing to pass of the actions of personal beings in the same way as the way in which he causes the bringing to pass of events in the physical world. That is true even of the good actions of men who are his children. Even when God causes those men to do certain things by the gracious influence of his Holy Spirit, he does not deal with them as with sticks or stones, but he deals with them as with men. He does not cause them to do those things against their will, but he determines their will, and their freedom as persons is fully preserved when they perform those acts. The acts remain their acts, even though they are led to do them by the Spirit of God.” - “What is Predestination?”
When i understood Calvinism and how we are really can not be saved by our own effort. How can a dead man decide for God. Only when we are changed and born again that is the time we seek Him. I am saved by grace alone
Yes but we have to seek him! You are leaving that out! And what if we are born again, honestly seek him, then lose our faith in him. You will say that person was never saved! I don’t understand! This makes God the author of evil if we can’t choose. We can’t know love without the free will to reject it! It’s just like naturalism!
@@jameslinton6424 You cant seek him if he doesn't draw you first. And when you are born again, your salvation is kept by God, not you. So yes, if you walk away, you were never saved in the first place. "no one can snatch them from my Fathers hand!
@@jameslinton6424 romans 9.
God can not create Evil. Goodness is of God. A departing from God is Evil. Evil isn't a tangible item, it is an action departing from God. God is Sovereign over people departing from him and their actions as he is sovereign over his children that he has imputed the righteousness of Jesus.
To understand these things is a life's journey, his word is his word.
Romans 1:18-21 tells us that man has no excuse for ignoring God from the witness of creation. If unregenerate man has no excuse for rejecting the witness of God in creation, because he is dead in his sins, then how can God hold him accountable for ignoring a witness that he can't perceive?
If spiritually dead men can't perceive God, then why are they guilty for ignoring God?
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [d]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is [e]manifest [f]in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
@@jameslinton6424 You did alright until you got to but. Romans 3:11 "No one seeks for God." Ephesians 2:1 starts out saying, "you were dead in the trespasses and sins." Dead people do not seek. No truly born again believer ever loses their faith. Many have a crisis of faith as they endure the suffering in this world but they never lose the gift of faith. Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:3, "unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” and in verse 3:5 "unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." In John 6:44 Jesus said, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." Before something must happen to him and that is the work of God the Father and the Holy Spirit who draws him to the Father through the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit comes into a person and opens their eyes to see and the ears to hear and the heart to understand. The Holy Spirit gives that person the gift of faith and the ability to believe. Salvation is all God's work and none of ours.
Regarding a person who says they are no longer a Christian, you should read the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13:24-43. The wheat represents believers and the tares non-believers. It was Augustine and some earlier Church Fathers who divided the church into the visible church and the invisible church. The visible church is everyone you see going to church but we can not tell if they are believers or non-believers. The invisible church is made up of all those who are in Christ.
God is not the author of evil neither does he cause a person do do evil but he does allow to exist. There may be three reason that God allows evil to exist. God may allow evil to exist to "demonstrate His wrath" and "make His power known" and to "make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy."
You are right that we can't know love but it has nothing to do with free will. The only way we can know true genuine love is when we put our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and then we know that "God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us."
Remember salvation is By Grace alone (Sola Gratia), Through Faith alone (Sola Fide), In Christ alone (Solus Christus) According to Scripture alone (Sola Scriptura), For God’s Glory alone (Soli Deo Gloria).
Before God opened my eyes to the doctrines of sovereign grace, I used to pray for who were not Christians saying, "Lord, please save my brother. Open his eyes to your truth. Take away his heart of stone and cause him to ask you into His life. Lord, please save Him.". After hearing my own words, I realized, as much as I wanted to say, "I chose God"; "I asked Jesus into my heart"; or "I opened the door to my heart to Jesus." I was futile in my thinking and realizing the only way my brother could be saved was for God to intervene in his "free will" and grant grace to my brother by giving him faith to biblically believe in Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior.
Hey Ragoo. I'm wanting to do a video on free-will and I'm trying to make sure I understand the Calvinist perspective. I'm wondering how Calvinists can say that we have any freedom at all if God has decreed everything that is going to happen. Could you provide any clarity?
The free will is what keeps you in bondage. You are dead in sin. The only way for you to come to salvation is if the Father draws you. It's like when Christ adked Peter who he believed Jesus was. He said thou art the Christ. Jesus responded by telling Peter the only reason Peter knew that, was because the Father had shown him.
God doesn't predetermine what will happen, He has foreknowledge of it. Therefore He knows who is going to respond to His grace.
Much love brothers and sisters Jesus Christ is King
Would you be interested in an online debate on Calvinism?
It's up to God if your brother gets saved. He might have been created to be a reprobate for God to destroy to display his glorious wrath.
@@PracticalFaith I know it's been a year and I don't know if you made your video or not, but I would recommend going to the Reformed confessions for defining Calvinist beliefs. The Westminster Confession spends all of chapter 9 on outlining man's free will, and chapter 3.1 shows how what God ordains intersects man's free will by saying that God ordains whatsoever comes to pass, and in doing so he establishes man's free will and the contingency and liberty of second causes by what he ordains. I know non-Calvinists tend to immediately see these things as opposed to each other, but the Calvinist perspective sees these things as in harmony with each other.
At the heart of the issue IS free will. More specifically and honestly more important is the pre-determination of salvation. That is truly what derails people from Calvinism altogether. Did I make the decision myself to follow Christ or did Christ make that decision for me and I'm just puppet? So, God's love really isn't for everyone? If we're all fundamentally sinful creatures destined for hell, how is it that some are "chosen" over others? If God really does choose who is saved and who isn't then why have people spread the Gospel? These are the questions that I hear almost everyday working with a Christian University in America.
Amen
I feel the exact same way. Could you give us more food for thought? Do you think we have no free will? Or do you think the free will we do have is a gift from God? Thanks
Calvinism is the greatest manifestation of cognitive dissonance known to mankind.
Thank you God for R.C Sproul. I rejoice he is in your presence. That we may never loose his legacy, Amen.
Anamaria Rodriguez,
Poor girl... Calvinism is an evil doctrine..... Calvinism is a mixture of Biblical
Truth and man-made Lies.......
This Statement below is the base of Calvinism , See if it is not evil....
''God arranges all things by His sovereign counsel, in such a way that
individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death,
and are to glorify Him by their destruction''
This Statement which is the foundation of Calvinism is evil because it CONTRADICTS the Character of God and cannot be Supported by the
Scriptures.....
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo So, in your theology, when God says, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, you call that evil on God's part?
Romans 9:15
For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo anything you disagree with “MaN mAdE”
@@rjayOso, Romans 9:15 is not the reason why Calvinism is evil...
@@alil6547, Really? Can you prove it?
Revelation 3:20 KJV
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
People, in a fallen state, have to CHOOSE to do a good thing, and seek God when He's knocking at your door. Seek and you will find, there's a free will choice for everybody to make. I can see a free gift in front of me, but I can't receive it if I don't choose to reach out and take the gift that's in front of my face.
But God gives you the ability to choose the gift, because a person dead in sin will never choose God. God must first choose us in order for us to accept the gift. That is why Paul tells us not to boast, because the only thing we bring to salvation is the sin that makes it necessary. If it is up to the person to choose, then that teaches that we can boast at others for being too stupid to choose God like we did
@@bigtuna9223 Paul says there that salvation is the gift of God, not of works, and because of this you can't boast. Again, choosing to accept is NOT a work. Some accept the gift, having been made the offer, and some don't. It's not a work. If you choose to draw near to God, the He will draw near to you. Think of the banquet parable in Luke 14 where many people were invited to come, but refused to go, made excuses, and so other people outside the original guest list were invited to come in. The first group of people WERE invited, but they freely chose to refuse. The next group chose to accept. Everybody is invited, as God desires all to be saved, but some will freely choose to refuse the invitation.
@@TheGreyHollowRoad Romans 9:14-23 explains that God hardens who he chooses and has mercy on who he chooses and Paul anticipates that people will say God is unjust which is why he writes in verse 14 that he is not unjust for choosing who to have mercy on. It is put most clearly in ephesians 1:5 "he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ"
@@bigtuna9223 Yes, God lets us know that the rain falls on the just and the unjust (Matthew 5:45). The predestination would mean that God would know, from the beginning, who would choose God and who would not. The future could be written in advance, because God would know in advance. People wouldn't be specifically made FOR the purpose of going to hell, because it doesn't make sense for God to condemn people for unbelief, or plead with the wicked to change their ways:
Ezekiel 18:32
For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”
Ezekiel 33:11
11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
God desires that the wicked turn from their ways and live. It's God's will that people be saved, and it's also God's will for people to have free will to choose to turn (as they are made in the image of God). God doesn't want robots, and so God allows people the ability to freely resist His will. This is even the same for saved people, who still have the freedom to struggle with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30). It comes down to a person's choice to accept the gift or not.
Romans 11:23
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
@@TheGreyHollowRoad it clearly says that they were made for the purpose of going to hell. Romans 9:22-23 "What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory"
God is sovereign over all. It really is that simple. To refuse the sovereignty of God in any aspect is foolishness. Another solid truth is that no man will ever be able to know the mind of God, as no man can even begin to comprehend who, or what, God truly is. Every man made understanding of doctrine is simply an attempt to understand how our Father God thinks, which can never be fully discerned. Who are we, as dirt built men, to even question our maker. To argue over doctrine is also folly as our personal relationship with our Father is not affected by our doctrinal understanding, but division with our Brothers in Christ does affect our relationship. I do not care what you think is right doctrine, if you are in Christ then you are my Brother.
Kenny Nicholson : Jews don't have dealings with Samaritans. For that reason James is called the brother of Jesus.
Kenny Nicholson : tctctc...He who overcomes Shall not be hurt by the Second Death. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come, brother...
Arguing in favor of sound doctrine is vital, it is commanded of us. The problem comes with being drawn into endless, fruitless discussions of the cunningly devised fables which infiltrate the body of Christ (1 Tim 1:4,4:7 / 2Tim 4:4)That’s the comfort of God’s sovereignty, because otherwise we humans would turn faith into a freak show. We would handle snakes, and drink poison, and wallow about foaming at the mouth and blithering all the way to Hell.
Gerry James : I have never heard Such a thing. Pope Francis declare it doesn't exist. If you continue with MacArthur' s insane claims, I would not lose sleep over it.
Kenny Nicholson That is absolutely incorrect. So why exactly did Paul oppose Peter? What of the churches in the book of Revelation that Christ was intending to correct? Was Christ wrong when he told the woman at the well that we must worship in spirit and truth? Maybe should have not told her that. So the scriptures never warn us of false teachers? So you would have no problem with inviting Brian McLaren or some other emnergent churvch type-to come and preach/teach in your church? I hope you have some division in your spiritual life. If not, I would really encourage you to look in the bible about salvation, pray God teaches you the truth, and maybe even talking to a pastor or someone else about salvation.
Best (brief) summary of the challenge in understanding the nature of Man's free will. #ThxRC
Notice how he mentions St.Augustine @ 1:45 and then later he says his Arminian friend's view of human free will is not biblical @ 3:40
What he's not telling you , and what is rather ironic is that St.Augustine wrote down what he thought ought to be the Canon of Scripture. It's in agreement with what the Holy , Catholic and Apostolic church would later rule to be the bible. St.Augustine himself advocated for Wisdom of Sirach , a book in the LXX OT canon. Sirach explicitly states man has free will and control over his destiny. The reformers cut Wisdom of Sirach and a hand full of others out of the Bible that's why only Orthodox and Catholic bibles still have it.
Woah, this is a very interesting topic. I'm going to look into this further. Thank you.
I am not a Catholic or an orthodox and I believe Sirach is scripture.
Reading it commanded my attention in a way the Scriptures did when I first read them. A way that I will never ignore.
If the will was in bondage to sin and only free to do iniquitous deeds against the will of God, why would the Holy Spirit invite "whosoever will , let him take the water of life freely?" (Revelation 22:17). Surely, the taking of the water of life is not something sinful. Oh, I see, the Holy Spirit needs to quicken the dead spirit of the elect monergistically first so that he or she may take the living water freely. That's putting the cart before the horse which has been a reformed doctrine since its inception. What about Cornelius the Centurion "A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always." Were all these things sinful because his will was in bondage to sin? Of course his good deeds could not save him and therefore needed to hear the Gospel and believe it in order to be saved. The fact remains that his will was NOT in bondage to sin. He was able to choose between doing good and doing evil.
Tom Lessing , Cornelius was Arminian. Therefore the Lord called to Ananias, and to him the Lord said in a vision " Ananias".
excellent analogy
you can be in bondage to sin and still have a free will. What R.C is saying is that your actions lean more to the evil/ selfish side when you are unsaved. Only when God saves someone does their heart change from stone to flesh which makes them sin less (notice the space in sin less)
Thank you for the video!
All people are free to do whatever we want but we can't freely determine what it is that we want.
Do you hate God then?
Calvinism #SomeLivesMatter
I agree with what he's saying but there are many many people on the internet that claim to be Calvinists that don't agree with what he's saying. That is the problem people that don't know what they are talking about preaching Calvinism.
Agreed. I like to bring up the confessions, since those represent a long standing consensus view of Calvinism, rather than just hold up one preacher or one author for the definition of Calvinism. The Westminster Confession has a whole chapter about human free will (chapter 9), so it is always interesting to see how those that deny that Calvinists believe man has a free will deal with it.
So what caused Adam and Eve to sin?
Calvinism teaches God determines every act of man, to do good and to do evil. I can't imagine kneeling in front of Him on judgment day having preached He was the author of all evil.
James 1:13 NASB95
Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
Hyper-Calvinism is not Biblical
Hyper-Calvinism is not true Calvinism
Calvinism when understood correctly is Biblical.
While I was watching this video that's exactly how I understood it and I'm kind of baffled to the extent of the difference between Armenian in Calvinism as I understand it it's not our will that changes our hearts but it is our will to accept that we are sinners and it's God who changes our hearts. So theology tells us that it's our choice but it's God who changes our hearts based on our willingness to accept him. Apologize for any typos as I am driving and using my text to speech
What Calvinists don't understand is just because you read from the bible doesn't make it biblical. It's the interpretation and failure to use other scripture to support their interpretation. Example: Eph 2.1 where the word dead is the same deadness as in Luke 15: 24 and 32. Which means speration,lost
If its so Biblical, why does it require its own classification; its own subtitle?
Todd Harless this video doesn’t address hyper-Calvinism though..... Calvinist think the same if hyper-Calvinism.
You can't have "free will" if God determined my desire , my sin, etc... and then holds me accountable for what He did. Sproul is talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Choose today who you will serve.
But who can do that? Who can call upon the name of the Lord? Only those ones who actually understand why they need Lord in the first place and that happens only by the work of the Holy Spirit.
@@nikokapanen82
Anyone
Whosever upon hearing the gospel can do it
Regeneration prior to faith is not in the Bible
It’s in manichean Gnosticism introduced by Augustine and expounded upon by clavin
But that’s not Christian at all
Men and women can and do hear the gospel
And accept or reject it
That’s the biblical example
The ONLY example of how to get saved
The Calvinist method of salvation is completely absent from the biblical text
Completely
@@nikokapanen82 for instance, being regenerated means you hand the Holy Spirit and that enables you to accept the gospel according to Calvinist.
The Bible says
Hear abs believe
Like
Cornelius
He sought after God without being regenerate, something sproul says can’t happen
But we know he did because the Bible chronicles his prayers alms and charity
God noticed and responded, sending him a messenger to tell Cornelius to send for Peter
Peter preaches
Cornelius believed
Cornelius received the Holy Spirit
Don’t let the clavinist gnostic goo get on you
@@johngodsey5327
Cornelius was clearly under the Holy Spirit long before God actually came to him. Living absent from the Holy Spirit means living a worldly life without caring about God.
Like David, he was filled with the Holy Spirit and this is why he was so into God and wrote such an amazing psalms.
Aaaaaaaaaand the Arminians totally missed it all.
God Bless RC, RIP. He nailed it. God gave us volition and is a Gentleman and will not Superimpose his Will over our Choices. We have Freedom to choose, if we become curious about Salvation, the Holy Spirit will reveal the Message of the Gospel and Salvation. At that Point you can Believe that Jesus is who he said he is, or you can choose Not to believe. Those who Reject Christ, can Not be Saved and will be Judged accordingly. Those who Believe will face the Bema Seat or a "Judgement throne" where God will look at our life and sins, and Jesus will stand as our Lawyer and Say, I died for those sins, and we will be forgiven forever.
.... but if the will is in bondage, can it be considered "free" ?
No. It cannot.
Christian theologians such as Aquinas set the record for being free in christian theology as we can only be free through Christ. If we are not in Christ we are not free. There is a difference between freedom and liberty. Naturally we have a sinful bias, but we are at liberty to sin or not sin, a bias does not decide 100% success rate of our actions, its merely an inclination. God has revealed himself through scripture, through life, through many things... God has made his move for us to recognise him, we are at liberty to accept Christ in our hearts but until we genuinely do so, we are not "free". To be free is not merely the ability to choose, that is liberty, but to be free is to choose well. And if we have genuinely chosen Christ, we have been set free.
@@petermulholland5241 and he is wrong. The freedom we have in Christ in not that of the will but that of the condemnation of sin.
AK Richardson yeah I agree, to be free is not merely the ability to choose, but it is achieved once we have chosen well, and that is only done through Christ. If you are not through Christ you are not free, you are a slave to your sinful desire.
@@petermulholland5241
To be able to choose Christ, one must be able to choose good, yet man is not good by his nature, he is corrupted. So i am convinced that even the ability to choose Christ, first, comes from Christ, when he fills you with the Holy Spirit which shows how badly corrupted you are and in a serious need for help and that help is Christ.
If, according to him, I hold a view of free will that is unbiblical, I can’t help it. I was determined to have a false view and there’s nothing I can do to choose otherwise. Why don’t they ever address that part of the logical outworking?
@Mark OnTheBlueRidge, elaborate why it’s false, please.
@Mark OnTheBlueRidge, I don’t understand why you can’t simply tell me what the issue with what I said is. I’m not being dishonest, that’s just the logical outworking as I see it. If I’m wrong you can just tell me why. Saying “you’re wrong, go read these people” doesn’t make for a good discussion. Also, I’m not an Arminian.
@Mark OnTheBlueRidge, well fear not. I have a book and a half I still have to read and after that I’ll be reading 3 pro-Calvinist books “Why I Am Not an Arminian” by Peterson and Williams, “The Potter’s Freedom” by James White, and “Chosen By God” by Sproul. Maybe after those 3 books they’ll stop saying I don’t understand Calvinism.
@@DPGBehler why im not calvinist. Jerry Walls.
@@fabriziom9, I own and have read it.
"What father holding his little girl’s hand crossing a busy street would ever let it go? The more she pulls, the tighter he squeezes. There is no way she is going anywhere! Is God any different? The argument that a person can choose hell by rejecting God as a result of 'free' will is in effect saying a little girl has more strength than her dad. God has given man a 'measure' of free will, but certainly not to the degree that He would allow him or her to damn themselves forever in torment. Is God less of a parent than we are (Matt. 7:11)? We extend increasing freedom to our children as they mature. Too much too soon is disastrous. He knows just how much freedom we need for our development."
-- Gerry Beauchemin, _Hope Beyond Hell,_ 2010, pg. 38
RC was one of my favorite teachers--except he loses me when he speaks of Calvinism.
Calvinists, can you help me understand this?. Is Calvinism saying we are in bondage until regenerated by the sovereign God, and then we have free will i.e., libertarian free will where we can do x or not x? Or, even after regeneration we can only do what God determines us to do...i.e., God determines all things even our thoughts and therefore we cannot really do something contrary to what God desires us to do, because God determines all things to be? Hope that makes sense.
I can’t speak for Calvinism, but this is what is usually meant by the bondage of the will in the Lutheran tradition (I’m a Lutheran-leaning Anglican). One is in bondage to sin and unable to free themselves by nature, but through the means of grace, God turns our hearts to believing trusting in him so that by that trusting faith he instills in us, we are declared righteous before God, and that declaration of righteousness is a present inauguration of the final judgement we will receive before the judgement seat of God on the last day, which is ours *so long as we remain in it*. The regenerate will is free, which includes the freedom to turn away from God, reject his grace, and perish in our sins. Essentially, one must choose to remain a Christian, though it is God who gives us the means of sustaining that faith. Lutherans believe some sins are so willful and deliberate that they can only be committed by driving out their trust in God while committing them, thereby spiritually killing themselves-mortal sins, in other words.
As this all relates to predestination/election, Lutherans (and Lutheran-leaning Anglicans) are divided between conditional and unconditional views of election. Personally, I believe election is conditional and/or corporate-those individuals who are predestined are those whom God foresaw would receive the means of grace and be brought to faith by him and choose to remain Christian in their life by restraining their concupiscent sinful desires from mortal sin prior to death. The means of grace are administered by the church-the assembly of all believers spreading the Word by their own free choice. This is the crucial point-God works through the free ministry believers to make new believers, and since the such actions in ministry are free and not coerced, they are not strictly causally determined by God. Thus he foresees and predestines who will come to faith, but this predestination is logically prior to this foreknowledge. For my own part, I lean heavily toward explanations of divine foreknowledge that go under the label Molinism.
So basically, this theology acknowledges the severe weakness and inability of the human will wrought by sin and attributes conversion solely to the work of God, but more or less would be in agreement with Arminian theology after conversion, especially as regards predestination as conditional election.
calvinism doesnt work. The straight answer is calvinists believe God is evil. which he's clearly not
You say that RC was one of you favorite teachers, except that he would lose you when speaking of Calvinism…I’d like to point out that EVERYTHING RC taught was taught through the lens of Calvinistic (Reformed) theology…I’d encourage you to dig deeper into the doctrine of God’s sovereignty, especially the idea of decretive and permissive sovereignty…some things God declares or decrees “Let there be light”…and there was light! Other things God permits/allows- such as the fall in the garden…the fact that He is permissive at times in no way negates His sovereignty…
@@andrewbrowne5557 Interesting. If God determines but also allows or permits then how is that different from Arminianism or Provisionalism? Do those decision God allows mean he leaves it to man's free will i.e., in some cases he allows man to do whatever he wants to do? My understanding of God's sovereignty is that God can do whatever he wants. Is that definition complete or is there more?
@ I think perhaps we’re discussing two separate points: 1) God’s sovereignty 2) man’s ‘free’ will…God’s sovereignty necessarily includes His doing whatever He wills AND allowing whatever He wills…Man, in his unregenerate, fallen state, is ‘free’ to sin, however, he is not free to not sin…a person will always choose according to his strongest inclination…unregenerate man is always inclined to sin…an unregenerate person cannot ‘freely choose’ to exercise faith in the finished work of Jesus apart from first being regenerated, and being given the faith necessary for justification…I’m going to stop here, as this is not an adequate forum for this dialogue…I encourage you to dig into the Ligonier ministries videos of Sproul and prayerfully consider the tenets of Reformed faith…I also recommend Eric Metaxas’s biography of Martin Luther! I finished it recently, a most enjoyable, informative read! Peace of Christ!
We can all praise Mr Sproul for his devotions to God and Scripture, his explaining of the gospel is in my view always over the top and many times hard to understand (how did the simple message of free grace of the Gospel become so complicated??) as far as free will we have a new person of the Holy Spirit ( Jesus) sealed in us which cannot sin and our struggle is with the old Man flesh Romans 7! The Law of sin is dead...I'm always very cautious when a single Man (Kelvin) has an ÏSM" after their name and it changes ones thinking to theirs the book of Acts was not that complicated, Jesus said you need to be like a child to enter the gates of heaven that sounds pretty simple to me the free choice to trust by faith God's free Grace he wishes no one to perish and will not return until the Gospel has been preach to the four corners of the world, how is that not indicating that all have a free will to say yes or no?
There is a MASSIVE difference between free will and volition. Only being to ever have there will totally free is God himself. There are no outside influences directing Gods will. It is free from any outside influences. Mans will is conditional meaning he can choose between things but outside influences play a role in mans decision which is called volition. Man can choose only what his will is bound to which in this case is Sinful Nature!!!! The bible states that no man woman or child will seek after God but we only seek after God because God first seeketh after you. PERIOD
The word ‘free will’ does not appear in the Bible in an absolute sense.
Every person in the human race has the freedom to do whatever is consistent with nature. What about things that are inconsistent with nature such as pleasing God? "...a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." So nature perverts the will. God must intervene and impart a new nature so that willing to please God becomes possible.
No. God has the freedom to make them do whatever he determined they were going to do. no one freely chooses anything.
@@aletheia8054 Hummm... do I listen to you or the apostle Paul? I think I'll go with the apostle Paul.
@@Saratogan When does the apostle Paul ever say of the word freedom?
@@aletheia8054 a number of times. But as an outcome of the work of Christ. For example "It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery." and "For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another." So, He says that believers have freedom. They could use their freedom to serve the flesh (nature) but he admonishes believers to not do that. If believers do not have the freedom to use their freedom for the flesh, why tell them not to? Seems irrelevant, right?
How about another word? Liberty. "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." and "But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak." Apparently believers can use their liberty unwisely. If they don't have that capacity, why speak about it? It would also be irrelevant.
@@Saratogan It is unusual that I run into somebody that knows where those words are. I usually have to point them out to the freewill people. Lol
But if you look again, you’ll notice that every single one of them are talking about the freedom in Christ the inner man.
Not the freedom in the flesh. In the flesh there is no freedom. The freedom is in Christ and in the truth.
Sproul acknowledges that we have a will that has the faculty of choosing but that the human will is in bondage to sin. He explains that our wills are enslaved to sinful passions, sinful desires and sinful disposition. This is certainly evident in the actions of ISIS, tyrant rulers and mass murders, etc. But what about the many people who have shown an unselfish concern for the welfare of others. There are many altruistic people in the world today.
Doing good to others certainly does not merit Salvation but it does contradict the idea that the human will is in bondage to sin and can only choose evil.
John Piper states, “Nothing that exists or occurs falls outside God’s ordaining will. Nothing, including no evil person or thing or event or deed. God’s foreordination is the ultimate reason why everything comes about, including the existence of all evil persons and things and the occurrence of any evil acts or events. And so it is not inappropriate to take God to be the creator, the sender, the permitter, and sometimes even the instigator of evil… Nothing - no evil thing or person or event or deed - falls outside God’s ordaining will. Nothing arises, exists, or endures independently of God’s will. So when even the worst of evils befall us, they do not ultimately come from anywhere other than God’s hand.”
So, according to Sproul, fallen men have wills which are free but enslaved to sinful passions and yet Piper claims that God is the creator, the sender, the permitter and sometimes even the instigator of evil.
It seems to me that Calvinists are very confused over the issue of man’s free will.
It's not that human nature is utterly corrupted and purely evil which cannot do anything but evil all the times. It is rather that human nature is definitely corrupted and does sin on a continual basis and the problem is, that is enough to be separated from God because God is 100% holy.
So a person does not need to murder all the times to be separated from God, all you need is to entertain yourself with porn on a habitual level and that alone will keep you away from Heaven unless you get right with God.
To even understand that we have this corrupted nature which is leading us to hell, we need the Holy Spirit to work in us and to be freed from this corrupted nature, we need help, divine help.
Greg Jay: How is it free will if we are in bondage? It's arguing that a person's whose hands and feet are tied can run a race. Or that someone not tied up, can't run a race.
Or that we can kinda run, and can't Kinda run.
The argument lacks biblical evidence.
Of course what he's arguing is that since humans are in bandage, they must have God's intervention ( regenerarion) before they can come to faith.
Where was Abel's intervention by God, before Abel's choice to please God?
Where was Adam and Eve's intervention by God when they were obedient?
Evidence, Calvinists, evidence, for your claims.
@@sheilasmith7779 I was merely pointing out the contradiction between Sproul and Piper, however, to answer your question, though I touched on this, being in bondage to sin does not mean the sinner cannot recognise he is a sinner and has broken God’s laws.
The alcohol and drug addict can still recognise their addiction and they can still accept help to overcome their addiction.
A sick person can make the choice to receive medical treatment or not. As Jesus said, “it is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick.”
A sick person can decide if he wishes to receive the medial treatment that is offered and the sinner can decide if he wants to accept the forgiveness for sins that is offered by God’s grace.
“The grace of God has appeared bring salvation to all people.” Titus 2:11
We have hidden sin. Some ppl go good deeds for the wrong reason and it is sin. And ultimately if we have an evil heart the desires evil, even if we do something truly good, it doesn't fix our corrupt nature
@@leadhesh It is very hard to break through the Calvinist mind set. The part that Calvinists don’t get is that any sick, depraved sinner can still recognise his sickness and receive help when it is offered to him.
This is why Jesus said, “it is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick.”
And of course we were all sick and now, thankfully, “The grace of God has appeared bringing salvation to all people.” Titus 2:11
Even after the fall of man-he has the freedom to choose his destiny whether it is good or bad.
God said…
“Today I call heaven and earth to witness against you that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore CHOOSE LIFE, so that both you and your offspring may live, so that you may love the LORD your God and that you may obey his voice and that you may cling to him. For he is your life and the length of your days…” (Deut.30:19-20)
True free will is the inclination and ability to never sin. Enslaved will is an inclination towards sin, and the inability to not sin. Calvinists get this part right. Where Calvinists go wrong is in their beliefs that (1) God ordained the fall, and, (2) while God could save all from slavery to sin, He only desires to save some. There is a mystery which both Calvinism and Arminianism fail to explain: How does our will and God's power relate? Its best to just take the Bible at face value: God wants to save all sinners and you are responsible for your own actions. Cling to Jesus, do your best to live a life which pleases Him, ask for forgiveness when you fail. All will be well with you if you do this. The truth will set you free, and that includes your will.
I like your definition of free will entailing that we have the potential to never sin. Jesus, the Word and God made flesh, was our perfect example of living sinless. That being said, we know that all have fallen short and have sinned, but this is the result of us failing by our own freewill.
Would you hold that sinless perfection is possible while on earth?
@C R I was born into a fallen world to fallen parents, and thus doomed to a fallen state myself. But, I did not become a sinner until I committed my first sin.
@@joev2223 What is sinless perfection? The standard God holds you to today may not be the standard He holds you to in the future. You can live a life which please the Lord, with a clean conscience (Hebrews 10:22). Aside from his sin with Bathsheba, David is said to have kept all God's commands all his life (1 Kings 15:5). If David could do it, so can you and I.
@@jackshadow325 Read Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
Wow, that was an amazingly helpful and insightful little video. I think he is absolutely right about how noncalvinists understand and try to frame the debate on free will. That we are robots, mere puppets to a sovereign God. I have heard like Leighton Flowers go so far as to deny the reality of our sinful nature, Original Sin, and federal headship. And many of them have expressed that they are trying to rescue God from the implications of Calvinism as they see it. And I do think it can be helpful to concede to non-calvinists that Yes, our wills are free, but they are also enslaved, like Jesus said: He who sins is a slave to sin.
R.C I miss you,I miss the great expository teaching that you conveyed,what a biblical answer.
@JCIL I see your fruits.
I don't know about what Calvin or non-Calvins believe but what I do know is that God doesn't make me do evil nor does He change me against my will to love good.
I am humbled, by God. There are many ways, starting with cursing the ground for our sake, that God attempts to humble a man but if we don't humble ourselves then He doesn't force us to either.
Yet, in the end, we will have no excuse as to why we didn't humble ourselves before Him, nor will they say or do anything to change the consequence that follows from resisting His calling to be humble.
If it was God who humbled you and humbleness is a condition that makes you behave rightfully, then God changed you to love goodness.
@nikokapanen82 I see it as humbleness turned me to God, to save me, as this world had broken my heart, and my soul was in a state of unrest.
So when I turned to Him, I was to a point where I could not rely on my way to go on and believed I should give God 100 percent of everything and allow Him to lead me and I am tifay by His grace, who I am.
I knew what goodness was but how to perform that, which was good. It took God, showing me how to perform His will, which is His goodness, and now my goodness as it is His will, not my own.
Ok. THIS explanation i can get behind.
1. Believing the good news message of the gospel comes by hearing it preached:
Romans 10[17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
2. God has commanded that the good news message of the gospel is to be preached to all people:
Mark 16[15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Luke 24[47] And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Matthew 24[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
3. If God has pre-condemned millions of people before they were born, then preaching the good news of the gospel to them is commanding them to do what they God will not allow them to do.
4. Therefore, preaching the good news of the gospel to those whom God has pre-condemned constitutes telling them a lie.
5. God cannot lie:
Titus 1[2] In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;[3] But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me
according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
6. Therefore, since the good news of the gospel message cannot be a lie, the gospel message according to the calvinist is not the gospel message of the Bible.
7. Since the gospel message of the calvinist is not the gospel message of the Bible, it constitutes an other gospel.
8. The Word of God tells us that those who preach an other gospel are condemned for doing so:
Galatians 1[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.[9] As we said before,
so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
9. Therefore, calvinism is not true and calvinist are condemned by God for preaching an other gospel.
When did we have to call ourselves Calvinist or anything. What happened to I'm am a follower of JESUS CHRIST wHich make you a Christian period nothing else
That’s kind of like saying 'I believe the Bible, and nothing else'. What does 'to be a follower of Jesus' mean? These 'labels' clarify what a person believes the Bible to teach. Somebody, obviously, has to be wrong. For the Bible doesn’t speak with a forked tongue. If we don’t grow in the truth, we will grow in error.
Because a mormon says the same thing.
@@johnmoerman255,
For the Bible doesn’t speak with a forked tongue. But Calvinists do speak
with forked tongue.....
reynaldo david If a Calvinist does, he misrepresents Calvinism.
@@johnmoerman255, I don't think so, Calvinism
is a mixture of Biblical Truth and man-made
Lies.....
For instance, this Statement below which
is the base of Calvinism, contradicts the Character of God,
and can never be supported by the Scriptures.....
''God arranges all things by His sovereign
counsel, in such a way that individuals are
born, who are doomed from the womb to
certain death, and are to glorify Him by their
destruction.''
Calvinists believe in free will, but God governs what they do. Concerning salvation, it is by God's grace and mercy, nothing to do with human will, a component of grace is the gift of saving faith, and The Lord Jesus is the author, not any fallen man who drinks sin like water and runs from the light of God. Nobody is saved based on human will. It is a false gospel called Arminianism. It is soundly refuted by Christ Himself "No man can come to me, unless it were given him of my Father"
So obvious.
I'm wanting to do a video on free-will but I'm having a hard time understanding the Calvinist perspective. How can you believe in any kind of freedom if God has decreed from eternity past exactly what is going to happen? Don't you believe He knows the future based only on His sovereign decree?
Wow
Once again calvinist making a claim about a single verse in john.
6:45 says who are drawn.
It's those who have 'heard' and 'learned'
These are conditions - duh.
He later says He will draw, if He is lifted up.
Jesus is doing the drawing today.
But not taking any other part of john 6 into account proves you don't even read the bible.
The very Words of Jesus, you don't even care what He says in the rest of that chapter. What is wrong with you?
I'm sorry for you
Why not do your own thinking for a change.
When calvinists say the things say they prove they don't know Him.
No one who has been with Jesus would say the things you guys say.
@@shredhed572 I have many verses!
@@Rbl7132 John 3:17
He avoids discussing the Calvinist/Reformed views concerning unconditional election, limited atonement, and irresistible grace which would in fact counter his claim that Calvinists accept free will. How can we have free will if God has predetermined to whom He will extend grace and the the blessings of the atoning work of Christ?
RC explained limited atonement on his other video and he doesnt agree on this issue
My friend, in this video brother Sproul explains what “free will” means. We do not have the ability to choose between God and sin (before being saved). The Bible says we are dead in our sins and are slaves to sin. Instead, free will means we are free to do what we want (which sadly means sin due to our fallen nature). If you are dead, can you respond to someone? And if you are enslaved, can you freely walk away? Instead, God must revive us, must break our chains. God bless you my brother 🙏
Great answer!!
Listen again… every choice you make is the choice you wanted to make both for the Armenian and the Calvinist. God never violates our free will, but he makes us willing to believe.
This is a 5 minute video! Hence, he's done many teachings on all you said he did not speak on! Judging on 5 minutes?
If you are maintaining your faith, you are eternally secure; if you are not maintaining your faith, you are not eternally secure. Faith is not a works; having the ability to accept or reject God is not a work.
Having faith AT ALL, is a gift from THE LORD! And if you have true faith, HE WILL keep you IN the faith!
The reason we are admonished in scripture not to "turn away" or "shipwreck" our faith is because there will ALWAYS bee goats mixed in among the sheep. Tares among the wheat.
So from a human standpoint, we SHOULD "make our calling and election sure." But it's not GOD who needs assurance who is truly saved. "The LORD KNOWS those who are His."
It is for OUR benefit!
Only TRUE Christians with Genuine faith have a concern that perhaps they were not truly saved, or that they have "fallen away." People with superficial faith have not such concerns.
That's why true Christians will "Examine themselves, to see whether they are in the faith!"
@@rolysantos Faith is not a works; having the ability to accept or reject God is not a work. I have the God-given ability to accept or reject God as does everyone else. This God-given ability to accept or reject God is not a work nor an act of good works; this God-given ability to choose God starts with the Holy Spirit revealing the truth. Once the truth has been revealed (by grace), I can believe (through faith) that Jesus Christ is Lord--it is not by good works. I cannot be good enough to earn salvation. Because the ability to choose is God-given and once the Holy Spirit reveals the truth of the Gospel, then through faith (belief that the message is true) I am saved and converted. NOT ONE SMIGIT IS WORKS-BASED. My wickedness and depravity does not mean that I do not have the ability to accept or reject God. FAITH is not a work and choosing God is not a work. My conversion occurs after I accept Christ by faith and not before. What I just described is in agreement with scripture.
@@rolysantos Since the "wheat" and the "tares" look the same, how do you know that you are one of the elect? I guess you will not know until the harvest. This does not sound very reassuring.
@@artemusbowdler7508 you are in one crazy cult hhahahaa
Thts among the xraziest logic ever go back to your joel osteen videos hahaa
@@iacoponefurio1915 I am merely in agreement with scripture.
Extremely well said.
Is it really "extremely well said"?
A simple yes or no would have sufficed. We still don't know his answer, because he obfuscated for 5 whole minutes.
gods not evil
Having heard both sides of the argument on "free will," my own conclusion is that we need to define what we mean by "free." In my view, the only human who had "free will" was Adam in his created state. He was the only one, along with Eve, able to freely choose to obey or disobey God in the Garden. We know how they chose. Since then, no human has absolute "free will." Our choices since then are influenced by our character, experience, etc. In each case, human choice is limited. I choose among limited options and based on who I am. I choose what I like based upon what's available. The grace of God through his Word can penetrate our human limitations so that we come to God, or choose God.
No, Adam had no choice. If he did have a choice we may have not needed a savior but God planned for Jesus to be our savior before the beginning
What Sproul is saying, as far as I can tell, is that people are free to sin (because that’s what they love) but not free to do otherwise (because of the fall). So what he’s describing is not freedom in any meaningful sense of the word. Man wants to sin because of the fall and he cannot desire anything else unless God redeems him (and then he no longer desires to sin). So what Calvinists are trying to do is abstract things by one step and say “yes, a man sins freely because that’s what he desires”. What they want to ignore is that according to their theology, God makes the desire to sin.
Calvinists may say “no, God doesn’t MAKE them desire to sin” but in their understanding, God is ultimately responsible for everything. He led Adam to commit that very first sin, hence the fall. Somehow, Adam falling and corrupting all of mankind is to God’s glory. And I think that’s wrong. I think God sovereignty is revealed most completely and perfectly when He creates free creatures that can choose to follow Him or to reject Him. God does this out of His sovereignty, and He freely offers salvation to everyone through His love for all mankind. Remember...God IS love.
This is much deeper than we can fathom.
Lets go to the very beginning of sin, Satan himself, why did he rebel against God? Because he fell into pride, then why did he fell into pride? Because he was so beautiful, then why God created him so beautiful? And here the answers stop.
The important thing to understand here is that choosing evil over good, is not choosing spaghetti over macaoni without any harmful consequences, no, choosing evil is literally choosing to kill steal and destroy, it is choosing to cause harm and suffering to others. Now how can a good being choose to do such things? It is impossible! This is why Jesus himself said that a good tree CANNOT bear a bad fruit. So before you can choose to do evil, first, you must become evil. Satan did not choosed to rebel against God when he was good, he rebelled against God when he became evil and how a good being becomes evil is one of the greatest mysteries.
@@nikokapanen82 that explains that lucifer had a choice to rebel, not that he was predetermined to rebel....
@@MrKingcarella23
When you fall into pride, that is it, you have no choices, you have no freedom, you are doomed to do only one thing and that is doing evil.
@@nikokapanen82thats means gods evil, which the bible proves he is not.
@@MasterKeyMagic
How did you come up with an evil God? How did you conclude it?
Trouble with this modern calvinism is that it denies free will even after salvation. they say, first we are in bondage to sin, but after salvation, we are in bondage to righteousness. Perserverance of the saints does this. And I would agree that before regeneration we only have flesh to guide us, but after regeneration we also have Spirit within us to guide us, and thus we are commanded to put on a new man. So after regeneration man does become free agent, with capacity to choose good or bad because there are still within him both new and old man.
Well no true even in salvation you will choose Good no matter how hard you try why Bible says The Holy Spirit will finish the work he was sent for
Free will is a meaningless concept that explains absolutely nothing. Will is the capacity to choose, but what are the basis of your choices? Your desires, ofcause. Your desires determine your choices, not the other way arround. Sin has corrupted us with deceitful and self destructive desires. _That_ is why no one can turn to God unless God regenerates him and give him new desires that is pleasing to God.
How then will God judge people who obeyed him by not believing the gospel because he himself stopped them from it?
In other words unbelievers are greatest believers of God who never gave them the grace to believe.
Shut up you idiots.
You robot minded Calvinists.
Read bible without preconceived idea.
Where did the very first disobedience desire come from? Why did unfallen man choose wrongly?
@DGK284 Scripture does not reveal that. It says a lot more about humans in their fallen state than in our unfallen state. But we do know oneday, on the New Earth in our new glorified bodies, we will be incapable of sinning and have no desire to sin.
@@Hannodb1961 Thanks for the reply. My questions underscore the failure of attempts to resolve the free will mystery by stating that it's simply the freedom to follow desire when the origin of that desire is ignored. I don't believe that God builds disobedient desires into us, but I haven't seen Calvinists successfully argue that God is not the ultimate origin of evil if he is the *final* cause of all creation, including our decisions. My own view is best expressed by Christian philosopher Peter Van Inwagen: free will is a mystery, though it's a deeper mystery to believe that we don't have it. Here "free will" is the ability to choose without being *completely* conditioned by the past.
To all Calvinists:
What comes first, regeneration or faith?
What video are theses clips from?
God is going to hold man responsible for the choices he has made.
For him to only have the ability to choose sin would make God unjust.
"
@hardcoreveritas5648 "God is going to hold man responsible for the choices he has made.
For him to only have the ability to choose sin would make God unjust. "
How is it unjust for God to give a sinner exactly what the sinner deserves?
What Arminians miss in this is that ALL HAVE SINNED. EVERY ONE OF US deserves to go to the lake of fire for all eternity. God does not OWE anyone salvation, and He does not owe anyone any CHANCE at salvation.
God would be perfectly just to allow generation upon generation to be born into this world and to send every one of them to eternal judgement without ever offering them salvation. That would be perfect JUSTICE.
Further, because He would be just to send ALL to the lake of fire, He is ALSO perfectly just to give salvation as a free gift to only a select few of His choosing. Giving it to SOME does NOT obligate Him to give it to ALL, or even to offer it to all.
Some will say “a dead man can’t do anything, so how could he choose Gods offering of salvation?”. Yet Jesus said in John5:25 “The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live”: so Jesus confirmed that a dead man can hear, and that if the dead hear his voice they will live. (So a dead man can indeed hear and if he hears Jesus then he will live)
Jesus coming into the world expanded the will of dead men and their capacity to choose. It is obvious we didn’t choose him hence the reason why we were dead, but God came and chose to offer us the Gift of life, if we so choose to receive it. He chose dead men to be the ones given the offer of salvation, adding something new to the current list of what a dead man has the ability to choose, which is the gift of Eternal Life
Who where begotten of God from the new !
You have not refuted anything
◄ John 1 ►
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Enough said!! One of my heroes of Faith!!
Hey built4speed101. I'm wanting to do a video on free-will and I'm trying to make sure I understand the Calvinist perspective. I'm wondering how Calvinists can say that we have any freedom at all if God has decreed everything that is going to happen. Could you provide any clarity?
@Dd S Is that your understanding of what Arminians believe as well? Because I would say the same thing. Nothing is outside of God's control.
@Dd S I discussed this with a Calvinist friend and he kept referring to the permissive decree. It seemed that he essentially meant the same thing by that term that I do when I say "free will". So in that sense I guess I really don't have much of a problem with it.
If God does not coerce man into doing anything against his will, what do we make of God sending Jonah to Nineveh by way of the fish? Even when Jonah finally did what God told him to do, he did so grudgingly. How then is this not God coercing Jonah to do what He wanted him to do?
The incoherence of this is that Calvinism doesn't really postulates that we are the ones willing or wanting but that it is God that implanta those wants and moves our will. So the problem remains: Calvinism does deny free will.
RC Sproul is so quotable when disproving Calvinist. “No, we aren’t robots” then proceeds to describe robotic behavior. Utterly insane. May God have mercy on him.
What do you do with what Paul writes in Romans, addressing that exact point you are trying to make? That it does not depend on man's desires or efforts, but on God who has mercy. And this section is speaking about being God's Children a direct correlation to Salvation.
Romans 9
6 It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”
10 Not only that, but Rebecca’s children were conceived by one man, our father Isaac. 11 Yet before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad, in order that God’s plan of election might stand, 12 not by works but by Him who calls, she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 So it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Certainly not!
15 For He says to Moses:
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
16 So then, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
Works don't save you, but faith is not a work, that is the disagreement. People can choose to accept or reject Christ without it being a work. I use Romans 3:27@@herrera3499
Slave to sin or slave to Christ. What sounds free?
What you said, was a bunch of crap that makes no, sense!
How did you hear that or believe that unless you have no understanding of the scripts
Romans 9-11 has a very happy ending:
"God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all. … From Him, and through Him and to Him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a)
That's a fallacy to say that fallen creatures does not have the capacity to freely repent or have faith in God, because Jesus said "repent" and He said that to "everyone" not the elect only. Meaning everyone has the capacity to "repent" or to "believe". God will never require someone of something that he/she is not capable of doing. John 3:16 is a basic truth that even in the fallen state, God didn't took away our freewill to believe. That's a complete lie to say we have no freewill.
His definition of freewill is according to what the Bible speaks about. We are volitional creatures and our wills are active, but consistent with our object of bondage either to sin or to Christ.
So, if it your decision to believe and your salvation is based upon your own decision, then a year from now you just might decide NOT to believe. WOW. I'm glad my salvation rest with God's decision and not mine because I don't trust my sinful nature for the best 15 minutes of my life. Let's just take a brief look at the people in the bible who chose God...(crickets). The apostle Paul didn't choose God, God chose him. Moses didn't choose God, God chose him. All of the disciples were chosen by God. God chose Jacob not Esau. It is very simply explained in Romans 9.... I always get a kick out of you guys when I ask them what the biblical view of "Election" is and then I ask them what the Bible means concerning "Predestination". Believe it or not some of them don't even know that these are real Biblical subjects and the ones who have heard about it try to go to any depths to explain it away. Especially Baptist. There explanations sound like the White House Press Secretary trying to "spin" there way out LOL. God regenerates the heart and then we choose God. NOT the other way around.
@@museumjunkie9317 wrong, do not put words in my mouth, I did not say that "salvation is based upon your own decision", i said "God did not took our freewill to believe". That's a strawman argument.
Also, Romans 9 does not teach salvation. As a matter of fact Romans 9-11 teaches about God choosing Israel to be His "Servant" and to be an example to other nations. The people you've mentioned are chosen for a special purpose. God's choice for these people to serve Him, does not necessarily mean that the whole world will not be saved, as a matter of fact, contrary to that, they were chosen to be the bearer of truth so that others will be saved. Now, the part of Romans 9 that says, "Jacob I love and Esau I hate", means that God chose Jacob rather than Esau. Chosen for what? Salvation? No. Romans 9:23...that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory...
God's sovereignty does not take away man's responsibility. Even John McArthur admits that in this sermon on John 3.
@@whatisthetruth6901 It's funny that you didn't mention the vessels of wrath that the Lord made for just that purpose. And when you say the whole world to be saved, do you mean Universalism?
@@whatisthetruth6901 I don't want to be contentious so this conversation is over. Have a nice day.
Forget the free will, if my own free will leading me to hell and my sins enslaving me. Ill put my heart, my faith and all my will submitted to God and Jesus and Holy Spirit because thats the way of Life and Heaven.
The Bible is clear that God allows all accountable humans to choose their own final destination. Throughout the Scriptures, we see God placing before humans the ability to determine their own destiny. Moses wrote: “I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life” (Deuteronomy 30:19). Jesus’ statement in Matthew 7:13-14 about the narrow and wide paths included the idea that His listeners had the ability “to enter” whichever path they chose. Joshua underscored this idea of choice when he declared to the Israelites, “And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve” (Joshua 24:15).
Bob Free. We choose. We choose on the basis of who we are. But we do not choose who we are. We do not choose our nurture or nature or what grace God does or does not give us. If God wants us to obey His Law He gives us the grace to obey and if wants to prove that we are sinners incapable of obeying the Law without Christ's enabling then He withholds His grace. Choice exists for us but free choice assumes we can step aside from how we were made.
bob your citing what God is telling his people, not unbelievers. Israelites were already God's chosen people, they are not trying to become God's people, they already are. However not everyone in Israel was the true Israel. Paul explains in Romans that's not the man that wills but God that has mercy.
You can choose a particular course of action, but that does not mean that it was truly your choice... we only have a small amount of free will which is derived from consciousness.
@@christopherstroud8621 Show me 1 scripture that says that GOD withholds any grace from anyone. but i can Prove that God gives Grace to ALL!!
@@bobfree1226 @Bob Free There are generally considered to be two sorts of grace. A] Common grace is given to all. It is the gift of life in the biological sense. Lungs to breath, brains to think, friends to share with and all the basic requirements of survival like food, warmth and shelter. These are given to all people by God. Praise Him.
But B] Is everyone saved? Is everyone going to go to Heaven? Saving grace is grace to believe in Jesus, to trust Him and walk with Him. We are saved by faith in Him but do we make that faith or are we given it?John 1v3 says man cannot create. "All things were made by God" including saving grace. You ask for a verse , John 1v3 means man is never the first cause in any chain of events. The trouble is half way along a chain one it may be difficult to see the first link.
I liked RC SProul a lot. He helped me in my walk with Christ, but his soteriology view was very confusing. I started calvinist, but once you dig deeper and listen carefully to what proeminent Calvinists are saying, it just doesn't stand.
So he spent God knows how many years in academic study, just so he could come to the conclusion that people are free but not free.
Thank God I never got sucked into a seminary.
Are you that infantile?
@@jonpool9030 Jesus used parables about farming, fishing, a lost coin, and so forth to express spiritual truths. Paul wrote about "the simplicity" of the Gospel. If that makes them "infantile" in the eyes of the establishment, I'm happy to stand with them in the same category.
@@TheMICMusicInspirationChannel what are you talking about? What does Jesus using parables and Paul's exposition of the gospel have to do with your infantile statement?
@@jonpool9030 Your (unwitting) sense of irony is astounding.
@@TheMICMusicInspirationChannel there's no irony here at all. You mad an infantile statement and then tried equating it with the parables of christ and the the exposition of the gospel by Paul.
Genuine observation:
Stated human will is fallen yet "Free from external coercion" - but then isn't God coercing a change, as an external 'force', therefore negating that concept?
As stated in video, due to the fallen nature, humans have the ability to willfully sin and reject God. By that measure, if God chose you to be predestined, you couldn't have free will, even in bondage, to sin and reject Him... because God, as an external influence, is overwriting that enslaved free will.
How could you know you're ever actually saved if, evidently, God allows you remain in a fallen state i.e. capable of sinning, and yet, such a state is linked to the ability to willfully reject God, again as stated in video.
Incorrect / correct ?
Be careful using valid logic! You might just sway an upcoming calvanist away from heresy...
@@justindavis2711 Well, I was probably predetermined to write that, so, no harm 😅
@@snoopycharlie8718 Exactly! I had a lengthy conversation with a die hard Calvanist in this video comments section last week. I decided to put it to a swift end by showing him how self-defeating his worldview was. I said "ok, you are right and i am wrong. I was blind and now I see. There is no free will, and I am predestined to be in hell. Cool, so what's next?"
He promptly deleted the conversation when he realized how stupid he was to try and persuade someone who, by his own theology, was predestined by God to disagree with him from before time began 🤣
@@justindavis2711 Really? Wow. It's mad how strongly the elect think they're the chosen few yet never seem to consider, what if they are only predetermined to think they are the elect, but in actual fact, are going to be used as an example of what happens to those with lofty assumptions/ prideful theology.
@@justindavis2711 Calvinism, if understood properly, should make NO practical difference in how one lives out their life. If he was suggesting you were predestined to hell, he was wrong for saying such. Under this doctrine, there is no way for humans to know whether they or anyone else is elect or not. Under this doctrine the actions of the elect are ultimately responsible for the carrying out of God's plan. There should be no person we cease evangelizing to out of an assumption they're not part of God's elect, because we have absolutely no way of knowing that part of the plan. The Arminian and Calvinist perspectives should produced absolutely NO change in how we approach spreading the Gospel.
So, my question is, did Adam and Eve have a free will?
Bill- Yes they did. You could say they had true free will because they were not tainted by Sin until the fall. When they sinned,they died spiritually.Sin entered in and man's will is now in bondage to sin because of that fall.
Thanks for responding Teemu. I'm not sure that your views of Adams choice represent the classical view of Calvinism (if you mean true libertarian freedom), though I confess I like your view a lot better. I do think you will find that most full on five point Reformed peeps hold that Adam's choice was "predestined as well," (a la Gordon Clark) but I would love to be wrong on that one. The idea is that a truly free bifurcated choice would mean that God could go this way or the other way, which would represent a change in his nature. I don't believe that, but that is what has been the articulation when I have discussed the issue with others. I also realized that "Calvinism" has a wide field of meaning, and there are many divergent beliefs within Reformed theology. I believe it was RC that said, "if there is one molecule in the Universe that is free, God is not sovereign." Thought I could be wrong in my attribution. Still, thanks for your straightforward response. While I am not a Calvinist, if it is granted that Adam's choice was truly free, the view at least has logical coherence.
Of course they did.why would God put a Tree in the garden in the first place if there was no Choice. very simple-no way out of that.
Just so you guys know what one of your major representatives believes. ua-cam.com/video/nSSLLpVChng/v-deo.html Glad to see you all don't feel that way.
Yes Bob, I agree. It seems clear to me that choice does not undermine God's control of the Universe. But not all believe that.
Any human has the conditioned will of a created being, by virtue of being created. God alone has "free" or unconditioned will.
"Man's heart devises his way, but the Lord directs his steps."
We're free,but in chains?
You have the cake just done eating😮
We are free in Christ, otherwise we are in the bondage of sin.
When in the bondage of sin we make choices shaped by the will of sin, when in Christ we make choices shaped by the will of Christ. He is not saying we have “free” will but a will that is either in the chains of sin or set free by Christ to overcome sin.
Romans talks of this.
Free if saved by grace.
I think I fully agree with every word of him and just taking him by his explicit words, I don't understand where he's disagreeing with or refuting Arminianism.
Arminians believe the fullness of original sin. They can't renew themselves (!) but they still have to allow God to do it for them. That's totally different from rejecting the bondage of original sin.
Sproul is the first preacher that I heard teach it like the Bible said it. This is correct teaching. This is how the Holy Spirit gave it to me several decades ago..
I believe a lot of disagreement lies in the view of free will. When I talk to people about this the moment I start talking about acceptable definitions they stop talking to me. Not all, but the majority do.
So if you can't properly define what you mean by free will you aren't seasoned enough to have the conversation yet. You haven't considered it enough to actually engage the topic.
I have a few definitions, examples, and details I use to try to get an understanding of why two sides are in disagreement but when I present them I honestly believe everyone must logically default to my second defintion which actually unifies both sides in the sense of they actually both hold conceptually the same idea of free will.
Though I wouldn't call it "free" will as much as I would call it something like Conscious will.
I think the disagreement happens because Calvin taught God was an evil being who made people just for the pleasure of sending them to hell.
Definitions of free will can vary.
But deciding to punish LOTS of people just because God didn't feel like calling them, so God is absolutely denying them freewill, however you want to define it. If they cannot come to God without being called, and God capriciously doesn't call them, then they lack any will to accept God.
And pray tell, why are we sinful?
Who made us?
Is God really so evil that he makes people who are incapable of following God, and then God damns them for not following?
Does that kind of God deserve our worship? The pagan gods were more concerned about humanity than that!
Sure, you can still Free Will alot of stuff, like rite now im gonna free will a cup of coffee ☕☕😍
MrSammy haha. when free will is being talked about, what theology is asking is if "man has the ability to convert himself to God". is man (unbeliever) enslaved to sin as the Bible teaches or not.
@@Solideogloria00 They have lost and denied the obvious fact we are sinners by nature not conduct and not choice. A sinful/sin-filled nature will never choose God who removed himself and can only be approached by belief-FAith. No 1 can come to the Son unless the father calls Him. False charletans have abounded in every generation, just crazy to think these people will try to tell God they are saved! Totally ridiculous hahaha!
@Steven Irizarry
Every person who is in genuine faith and has been born again from the Spirit (meaning has been sanctified from sinful life) is elect.
@Steven Irizarry
Of course they include themselves to be elect since they are followers of Christ. According to their belief, no one can begin to follow Jesus unless he is chosen by God to follow Jesus, so according to their belief, every genuine follower of Christ is elect.
@Steven Irizarry
Yes, of course not every calvinist is a true believer, not every christian in general is a true believer.
Yet i believe why many calvinists believes they are elect is because they have experienced the fundamental change in their life after Jesus came and pulled them out of the pool of worldliness. They look at their old friends, they look at their relatives and see how all of them are still there, still in the world, drinking, cursing, fornicating, satisfying their sinful desires while they are no longer living like that and they know it was Jesus who set them free from such lifestyle. So they are different, set apart, sanctified and separated from sinful world.
Sproul made a terrible error that humans can only choose that which is evil because of the sinful nature. In Joshua 24:15, Joshua asked the people to make a choice whether to worship idols or God. The people chose to serve the Lord. Even after Joshua said they are not able to serve the Lord, they still reply they will serve the Lord. Here is a good example the people can exercise their free will to chose to serve God. There is no mention of God intervening by giving any irresistible grace to turn them around. Therefore Sproul was wrong that men cannot choose God.
who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,
2.Tim 1:9
You can choose the good but you will never love it from your heart and will drop it after a while. That was not a good counterargument!
@@JESUS_Saves3747God's purpose was His redemption of mankind which He had planned before He created anything. He accomplished by sending Jesus to die for our sins, which is His grace because we cannot save ourselves by our works. Grace is not picking and choosing who to save and who not to save. If we cannot choose what is good then why Paul tells the church to walk in the spirit and not to walk in the flesh. Wouldn't that be our choice to choose to let the Spirit lead us to walk according to His will. The New Testament repeats many times that we are to choose that if we love Him we must obey what He commanded. Therefore if we cannot choose what is good then why would God tell us to follow Him and love Him and obey His command. All these are personal choices.
This is why it is so important to have a right understanding of Romans 7 in light of Romans 6 thru 8.
In Romans 7, the Apostle takes us through his life, when he was born and was alive, then when he heard the commandment, and sin came to life and slew him, then his struggle against sin, his desire to keep the Law as a Pharisee, but his inability to do so because of his fallen nature that was in bondage to sin, then his desperate cry for deliverance from his body of death, to the liberating power of the Good News in Romans 8, where he is set free from the law of sin and death, and now able to walk by the Power of the Spirit and not in bondage to sin and death through the weakness of his flesh.
This is a beautiful and clear teaching of man's entire condition from birth, to spiritual death, to rebirth and eternal life in Christ. However, it is obscured by incorrect teaching that because Paul uses the present tense in Romans 7 (called a historical present), he must be referring to his life as a Christian, even though the man in Romans 7 is completely defeated, and in no way saved, as is clear by comparing his condition to that of the Christian life set for in Romans 6 and Romans 8.
RC Sproul teaches that man does what he wants to do, this is in complete contradiction to what Scripture teaches, and also to the entire experience of humanity. We are called slaves of sin, not because we want to sin, but because we are bound by it. Now understand I am not saying that man does not sin wilfully, that is how man gets bound to sin in the first place, and why we all stand guilty before God. We are tempted and led astray, not fearing God or believing Him when He warns us that we will die, and so we engage in a sinful action like the foolish young man in Proverbs who is enticed by the wicked woman and ensnared.
And once ensnared, no matter how hard we struggle against it, we cannot escape, and indeed each time we succumb to temptation and sin willfully the bonds of sin grow ever stronger.
"Oh, Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?"
Thank God then, that He does not leave us there in Romans 7, bound to the Law of Sin and Death, but rather as we see in Romans 8:
"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you (or me) free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, 'Abba! Father!' The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs-heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him."
B E O W U L F Wow. That was way off. I will let Jesus prove you wrong,
“Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.”
John 8:34-36 ESV
Every person is a slave to sin. Dead. Until God makes a person born again with the Spirit.
“And you were 💀dead💀 in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-”
Ephesians 2:1-2 ESV
What can a dead man do?..........Just stink.
Roger
@@shopson6991 Both you and Beowolf quoted from scripture, and scripture does not contradict scripture. We really are in bondage to sin just as Jesus said, and we really are dead in sins as Paul says in Ephesians 2 (that is, before we believe and are set free and made alive). These verses don't contradict Romans 7, but actually speak to the same thing. Where you err is when you equate being dead in sin with an inability to recognize our need for Jesus and to believe in him. What does being dead in sin actually look like from the Bible? A lot like Romans 7. For example, here: "I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin, which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? " (Romans 7:21-24) Notice he recognizes his sin and describes his bondage to sin as like being trapped in a body of death. Being dead in sin also looks like the condition of the prodigal son before he returned home, as seen when the father said," This my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found." (Luke 15:24) All the scriptures are consistent.
@@sammig.8286 being dead in sin is being dead in sin. You can’t say Jesus is Lord without the Holy Ghost. You can’t come to the Son unless drawn by the Father. “You did not choose me but I chose you.” Where did Lazarus choose to be resurrected. And how blessed in the WANT for Christ. Where do you think that comes from because that certainly is not a choice, just like you don’t choose who you fall in love with.
@@alil6547 Can you provide scripture that says it is impossible to ever reject the process of being drawn?
@@blake8820 John 6:37 “all that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”
"Nice" hand sign there,4:03 - 4:08 Mr. Sproul...
It doesn't get any clearer than this. Excellently explained. I wish I could remember how to explain this to our Arminian brothers and sisters as clearly as this. Maybe I yet will. 😊
Why do you want to explain it to your so called Armenian brothers? What do will it do? Do you think they will hear you and believe? How can they? Or mabey you are not sure if you are right.
Read The Potter's Promise. His representation of non-Calvinist isn't correct. There is no biblical basis for 'dead' being 'corpse like' vs the correct definition of 'being separated from God'. Lazarus isn't a soteriology story and he was saved prior to dying the first time. The prodigal son and the parable of the wedding feast are soteriology stories.
@@huntsman528 My brother I can only say you have your theology mixed up. No wonder it is confusing you. I would listen to more of Sproul, Martin Lloyd Jones and our puritan brothers as well as Paul in Romans. If you can't accept epistles penned by Paul in their exegetical context then only the Holy Spirit can convince you but what Sproul teaches here is every bit as scriptural as it should be. You just aren't able to see it yet. In time you will, whether this side of glory or the other. I've been on the side of Arminius and I don't care to go back there. He taught unscriptural nonsense concerning predestination. Almost heretical and would be if it were brought to its logical conclusion.
@@leekellettjr441 I am sure the Bible is right in its theology and yes I am sure that Sproul taught sound biblical theology. He has sat under the legacy of some of the soundest and greatest theologians there ever have been. Paul the apostle being one of His teachers but greater than Paul is the Christ, the Son of the Living God who taught Paul the apostle by the power of God's Holy Spirit. We must go on to maturity and stop arguing proudly about who is right. Follow Christ and grow in the fruit of the Spirit then you will understand what this man, Sproul is saying and see how the Lord uses his legacy to draw you closer to Him through His Word and the rightly divided doctrines of His Word.
@@angeladyson7367 I am not an Arminian, I am a traditionalist/provisionist. No where in the Bible does it teach Absolute Inability. Jacob Arminius accepted this. The Bible definitely teaches human depravity, but nowhere does it say we are unable to respond to the living Word of God, to the Gospel. The thing capable of piercing "the division of soul and of spirit". If you want to argue with your non-Calvinist brotheren, then you need to read The Potter's Promise. Being in an echo chamber won't convince them. You need to be able to speak to the points of the book.
"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."
Let me see if I have this straight,
God created an entire world of people, in His image, who hate Him, who are His enemies, picks some to not hate Him and…. to bring Him glory, He torments the rest for all eternity?
?
The human heart is "BEYOND CURE" Jeremiah 17.
Nuff said.
God wants all to be saved:
John 3: 16
1 Timothy 2:4
2 Peter 3:9
@@TheMICMusicInspirationChannel I guess he failed then bcuz there's ppl in hell. John 3:16 in greek for "whosoever" is "all the believing". Christ only died for his sheep and his bride.
@@chaddaniels3686 Incorrect.
@@TheMICMusicInspirationChannel am not a Calvinist, but it has a biblical ring... Jesus says who ever the father sends to him will be save, and paul said he was chosen before the foundation of time... Esu and Jacob... God said Esu I hate, Jacob I love... This is before they where born
@@luantrading1866 First of all, it's ESAU. Second, that doesn't mean that God literally preemptively determined that Esau would be damned, only that Jacob would be the greater of the two.
Ultimately, you have to face 1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, Joshua 24: 15, and more. Not to mention the intuitive fact that a god who would create someone just for the purpose of blinding them to truth, denying them the opportunity to obey him, and tormenting them forever would be an evil god. He would basically have to deliberately prompt them into stubborn sinfulness, which the Bible says God doesn't do.
And yet the Bible says this. Deut. 30:19 "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live" Joshua 24:15 "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; ..." Proverbs 1:29 "For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:" John 7:17 "Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own." Rom. 10:9 "If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
Beautifully put RC
"But it is said, that if man be not wholly free, his goodness is but a mechanical thing. If so, I reply, better ten thousand fold mechanical goodness that keeps one at the side of God for ever, than a wholly unrestrained freedom which leads to the devil. But the assertion is in fact as hollow as it is plausible. [Man's not having absolute free will doesn't make him a machine.] Freedom enough is granted to resist God for ages; freedom to suffer, and to struggle; to reap what has been sown, till, taught by experience, the will of the creature is bent to the will of the Creator. If all this does not involve a freedom that is real, though limited, then human words are vain as a vehicle for human thought."
--- Thomas Allin, _Christ Triumphant,_ 1905, Annotated by Robin Parry edition, chapter 2
---------------
"As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive ... God [will] be all in all." (1 Cor. 15:22,28)
No, that's talking out both sides of your mouth. Ask him about divine sovereignty, and this answer becomes completely incoherent.
What he is saying is true. But this grace that frees us from our bondage to sin is given to all through Christ. We have to accept it. We would never be saved if it were not for the Grace of God.
Excellent.
Does regeneration come before faith? Or faith after regeneration? Give scriptures.
Most believe exactly as he said that only God can change us. This is not the point of contention.
Is not the Gospel enough to lead one to the cross and salvation? Is not the Word of God sufficient? To show us the truth?
Now, in itself that will never save. Only God saves. But salvation is conditional on that we say we believe that
1. God's way is right
2. That Jesus paid the price and rose again (I.E took our place)
So in effect we let go of trying to save ourselves and say "God only you can save".
From there we are born again, our Spirit Man renewed adopted to His family. Not by what we have done but by very decree of God.
God has decreed that we will be saved by / through faith. Eph Chapters 1 and 2. Read it completely. Read how we are elect in Christ. I.E if we are saved we are the elect.
Now if you argue that that faith can only come by God putting it there then you have a big problem.
1. Where does it say God will give you faith to believe to salvation(not increased faith)
2. If God has to cause our salvation - choose us to believe then would it not follow that although we choose to sin we could never choose God because God never choose us. It would then follow we would have an excuse for our sin because God did not choose us.
3. All the scriptures both old and new that require us to respond to the Word of God.
Jn 3:16
Jos 24:14-15
No doubt Calvinist's love God, but consider this, do Atheists know what is right and wrong?
If we can choose to do what is right why can't we choose to believe? How is that a paradox?
I believe in a God who wants all to be saved. The Gospel is good news for all!
Just do a search, faith always proceeds regeneration. We trust in God alone and not ourselves. Faith for salvation is only the act of saying not me but God. Only He can transform us.
God bless, bottom line is we are saved by Grace through faith. Only God can save us.
Hallelujah!
Man you are so confused are you not? and the gospel is so simple you dont understand because you don't have the God given light. Christ did not die for everyone and He does not want all to be saved that's heretic reprobate synergistic will worship teaching., You don't make a choice for Christ by your own free will. What nonsense is that.
@@TheBrownsberg Give scriptures please
@@HKFromAbove No, free will idolater reprobate pagan ain't worth the effort, waisted time. You have no light and remain willfully ignorant. Goodluck on your broadway.
And besides don't be lazy read the holy scripture you can do that yourself it ain't not dificult..But then again....you need light and you can't get light unless given by the grace of God. I'll give you a verse, now pay attention and listen
"Psalm 65:4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple."
He does not want all men to be saved, no.
Shoutout to Robert Barclay the great Quaker Theologian "First we may call this doctrine(Calvinism) a novelty, seeing that for the first four hundred years after christ there is no mention of it. The first foundations for it were in the writings of Augustine, who, in his warring against Pelagius, let fall some expressions which some have unhappily picked up to the establishment of this error."
Augustine wasn't writing in a vacuum. He was influenced by Fathers who taught before him. Augustine opposed a doctrine that had never been taught before, pelagianism. That people are born innocent, that people are capable of sinlessness, and that our works justify us. Augustine opposed that with the opposite doctrines, he did not invent them. They were biblical. And the Church Fathers preceded Augustine's teaching the correct mode of salvation.
Yes, this
How do they Calvinists explain how people are able to choose "good" acts before being saved and why after God gives us a new nature we continue to sin..?
We have no ability to be sinless. However, choosing God doesn't save us or make us sinless. Only Christ's atonement does that. People (old and new testament times) could choose all they want but until Christ's death and resurrection, we would have been just as lost and damned as before choosing God.
Amen. Truth. So good.
Is it really though?
He never answered the question.
gods not evil
At least he admits it’s from Augustine and not from the Bible. The Bible tells us to drink the cup of salvation. The Bible says to turn from your sin. We most certainly have free moral agency. Of course all good comes from God and that includes your choice to choose Christ, both are true. God has dominion over us and God has given us free moral agency. Adam could have not sinned. The Jews could have not turned away from Him at Sinai and each of us now in our everyday lives must choose Him or sin. Calvin himself said Salvation is available to ALL men. Today’s Calvinism is all hyper. TULIP is not biblical and it’s been proven many times over. The Calvin vs Armenian debate is a false paradigm. Be a Biblical Christian period 1Corinithians Chapter 1 do not be “of Calvin”. Limited atonement and irresistible grace are false doctrines. There are false prophets who commit damnable heresies who were bought by the Lord but yet they have turned away and rejected Him 2Peter Chapter 2. Today’s Calvinism like so many other false doctrines only look at the part of the Bible that fits with their view, they do not subjugate their view to the entirety of the Bible. If you think you are Calvinist you are not enlightened above the rest of the body of Christ, you are believing in a false doctrine and you are responsible for that. Repent and be of Christ and Christ alone, not of Calvin. Be a Biblical Christian not a Tulip or doctrines of grace Christian.
If limited atonement is heresy, than do you believe that the wrath of God for the sins of all those who are not saved is poured out twice, once on Christ on the cross and again in the final judgment on those who ultimately end up being lost? And further are those who hold to a Calvinistic systematic theology unregenerate and false brethren whom are therefore accursed?
If you have a free will, why do you still sin?
very well said an the many reasons why i left this senseless line of thinking in calvanism,especailly the L in Tulip,which even the earliest of Reformers rejected and wrote so much against it!!
Which reformers rejected it?
@@risingdawn5788 Almost ALL early Reformers not only rejected it, but wrote extensively against Limited Atonement. i would suggest you do research on it like i did. look it up friend.
Love R.C. ❤
He's satanic
Free will not a good Will ☺️
Free Will has always meant within a given scope you have a choice. Otherwise you are a robot.
Since you assert we have absolutely no free Will in responding to God calling us, then we do not possess free Will in that scope, therefore we are robots.
I do understand the point he makes that we freely choose to sin, but that scope is not being referred to in debates about free Will, the scope is about responding to God calling us. You don’t get the privilege to redefine the scope of free will when we are referring to the literal message of the Bible, which is that we should “choose to follow Jesus”.
Amen!
If according to Sproul man has "free will to sin" ( @ 1:42) then doesn't it follow that man has a "free will" to believe the Gospel?
No. Belief is not mental assent. Faith is a gift from God that justifies us. Faith is a gift, a grace, to say our own mental belief saves us
@@jcr4runner Not sure I understand your first statement. If I did not mentally assent to believing the chair would hold me, then I would never sit on it.
In reading verses such as Acts 16:31, where the derivative "believe" (belief) is used, then isn't faith the exercise by the creature, of that belief?
Was the centurion in Matthew chapter 8 exercising by his free will, belief or faith?
In this account, why did Jesus "marvel" at this man's faith if the total source of the centurion's declaration was Jesus Himself?
@@dc-wp8oc the source was God. No man can come to me except the Father draws Him.
Pretty straightforward
@@dc-wp8oc freewill is ridiculous only the Prime Mover has freewill
That is a lie of satan in the garden.
@@dc-wp8oc man is enslaved, in bondage to sin. Our freedom of choixe doomed us because we are inclined.toward evil continually as God said of Noah
If one believes Jesus accomplishes the exact same for ALL, and nothing more, this would mean that people, who end up in heaven, are not there because of what Jesus did... because... he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for those who end up in hell!
This would mean that those who are in heaven are there because of something other than what Jesus accomplished!
If this is true then Jesus does not save anyone! This would mean you are saved by “something other than Jesus”... if you end up in heaven!
Yes, makes sense but is this an Arminian doctrine or is it something else?
Chapter 3 - Of God’s Eternal Decree.
Section 1.) God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass:(1) yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,(2) nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.(3)
Ive tried. But I dont understand this.
This man has created more problems than Calvin himself..
How’s so?
He uses great swelling words. But he has no understanding of God's grace.
Amen Brother!
R.C. Sproul: one of the most beautiful mind in Christian theology. Yet he was one of the most inconsistent Calvinist. As a non Calvinist that's why I liked him.
Rocio how so?
R. Joël Guzman-Quispe Why "how so"?
R.C. Sproul was quite consistent. For one's mind to be split in two directions is neither beautiful nor right. Disorder is not beautiful.
R. C. was quite inconsistent with 'Calvinism' if by that you mean some of the grossly inaccurate descriptions of Reformed Theology you see promulgated by the less scrupulous anti-Calvinists. But for anyone familiar with the confessions and the history of Calvinism, R. C. is quite consistent with Calvinism.
I would explain in such a way that an oral learner could understand. About 2/3 of the world are oral learners. Think about how long America were oral learners. During the time scripture was written about 98-99 percent were oral learners and everything they knew was memorized and transmitted orally. I explain the sovereignty of God and the free will of man like the farmer who determined the pasture he decided to put the cows in but the cows were free to choose to eat wherever they wanted. In scripture are many commands and the choice to obey or not obey has positive or negative consequences.
All he’s doing is changing or as he said he and Calvinist have a different definition of free will
Normal free will means the ability to choose either way.
His definition is the ability to do what you want.
Can you catch the difference?
In his view you literally can not do want you don’t want to do. the only reason you can only do what you want to do(sin) is because when sin enter into the human race it put our will in bondage that we can’t do anything but what the will wants,.
This is not classical free will.
But it makes sense in the overall Calvinist belief system
Serious, and concerning question of mine, doesn't make God partial?
I honestly haven’t studied up on Arminianism so I can’t speak for what they believe. But I can say that although I like some of Sproul’s teachings, I greatly disagree with his teaching or the Calvinist teaching on “free” will.
It seems that the Calvinist teaching allows for a person to have free will to do whatever they want, but not to accept the gift of salvation that God offers.
They make it out to be that God chooses you save some but chooses not to save others.
My question for Calvinist is, (and I’m really asking to get a handle on the teaching), if three people heard the gospel, two accepted the gospel when they heard it, does that mean that God gave both the faith to believe so that they could be saved and the third person He did not give the faith so that person would still be lost?
And if God decides not to allow that person the ability to have the faith to be saved; then that person is lost for eternity?
Is that the teaching?
Yes, that is Calvinist teaching. (I'm an ex-Calvinist)
@@jackshadow325
I cannot get a Calvinist to talk with me without claiming I’m Arminian or some junk like that.
How do Calvinists explain how people are able to choose "good" acts before being saved and why after God gives us a new nature we continue to sin..if we can't choose against our nature?
It's true that we have no ability to be sinless. However, choosing God doesn't save us or make us sinless. Only Christ's atonement does that. People (old and new testament times) could choose -- had faith -- all they wanted to but until Christ's death and resurrection, we would have been just as lost and damned as before choosing God.
Our free will is limited in many ways. None of us chose our our parents, their religion or lack thereof, our nationality, our physical and mental health, M or F, etc. etc. etc., all of which affect our decisions including the most important one. Joseph didn't choose the events that led to his becoming second in command in Egypt. Jonah's travel plans were altered. And so on.
With God's it's different: "My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish _all_ my purpose" (Isaiah 46:10). God wants everyone to be saved and go to heaven, BTW (Luke 19:10, John 17:2, 1 Timothy 2:3-6).
God is all-wise. Like a chess master who plays against a novice, He doesn’t force any of the novice's moves, but He always wins. It will usually take longer than a lifetime, but God will search for the hundredth (lost) sheep UNTIL he finds it. Here's who God chooses:
" *God* has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. … From him and through him and to him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a).
"For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, *but because of him who subjected it,* in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God." (Romans 8:20-21).
---------------
Also see John 12:32, Rom. 5:18-19, 8:19-21, 11:32,36, 14:11, 1 Cor. 15:22,28, Eph. 1:10, Phil. 2:10-11, 3:21, Col. 1:20, 1 Tim. 4:10, Titus 2:11, 1 Pet. 4:6, 1 John 2:2, 4:14, Rev. 5:13, 15:4, 21:5,24-25, 22:2, combination of (Rev. 22:1,14-15,17a,17c), Psalm 22:27,29, 65:2-3, 145:10a, Isa. 25:6-8, 45:22-25, 57:16, Lam. 3:22,31, Ezek. 16:53,55, Mal. 3:2-3, The Total Victory of Christ videos.
Ok, i understand we cannot get saved by free will, but what about other decisions? When we chose a spouse, did God cause that? How about what house to buy? What to invest in? I lost all my money on bad investment...did God cause that ordain it?
Mr. C Yes God did ordain it. Acts 17v26. God....has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings. Nations are made of individuals and in this verse Paul is telling unsaved people that God is in charge of the details of all the individuals that make those nations.
R.C. Sproul is not addressing the real issue that Calvinism asserts. According to Calvinistic compatibilism that most Calvinists hold to, we will what we will but God determines what we will. God foreordains the Fall of man is the will of each man.
The Founding leader of the Westminster Theological Seminary J. Gresham Machen states the problem: “We have said that God has foreordained whatsoever comes to pass. The sinful actions of sinful men are things that come to pass. Yet we deny that God is the author of them and we put the responsibility for them upon man… How can we possibly do that? Are we not involving ourselves in hopeless contradiction?…How can a Holy God, if he is all-powerful have permitted the existence of sin?...”
“The answer is found in the fact that although God foreordains whatsoever comes to pass, he causes the bringing of those things to pass in widely different ways. He does not cause the bringing to pass of the actions of personal beings in the same way as the way in which he causes the bringing to pass of events in the physical world. That is true even of the good actions of men who are his children. Even when God causes those men to do certain things by the gracious influence of his Holy Spirit, he does not deal with them as with sticks or stones, but he deals with them as with men. He does not cause them to do those things against their will, but he determines their will, and their freedom as persons is fully preserved when they perform those acts. The acts remain their acts, even though they are led to do them by the Spirit of God.” - “What is Predestination?”
Calvinism is the only thing that makes sense to me when it comes to the sovereignty of God and man's free will.
Can someone explain Romans 10:13 ?
kept getting better and better