Jeff Durbin Explains Predestination
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- Does God predestine all things? What about Free Will? Jeff Durbin explains predestination. You can get more at apologiastudios.... Be sure to like, share, and comment on this video. #ApologiaStudios
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No. /We have enough heresy from you
Wow, your really comparing what God willingly and lovingly put HIMSELF through with what man sadistically does AGAINST another person.
Not the same at all, the opposite even.
Is this sick? God determine a man to make his son kill another man?
That's what you are saying when you make God out to be the author of evil.
You're saying there is a justifiable reason for evil? Really?
Again, Jesus willingly laid His body down on the cross, willingly allowed to be beaten to a bloody pulp and comparing that with an evil man torturing and raping a woman AGAINST her will.
One brings about life, the other death. How is that the same?
If God, in His infinite power and wisdom were to create a being in His image and likeness, including the ability to make their own choices, could He not maintain and keep intact His Sovereignty?
See, when you allow someone to make their own choices, rather than control every decision they make, good or bad, your hands are clean of any wrongdoing but if you control their every decision how is it not the puppet master to blame for any wrongdoing?
Its a dizzying privilege to be alive today under Almighty God's grace! What an amazing life He has given us!
Amen & AMEN!
Calvanism is definitely "dizzying" :)
My parents gave me life not your imaginary god
Calvinism has a false God who does not have mercy, though you may be saved your teachings will not save many and will do the contrary
Consider the following from the Christian EAST!
The MISSING DOCTRINE in the Protestant predestination debate is Eastern Biblical GRACE which is "God working in us" to enable ALL people to be free to receive or reject God's love!
Philippians 2:12-13;
Titus 2:11;
1 Timothy 2:3-6
The order is,
Grace > Repentance/Faith > Life in Christ (regeneration)
Jesus is truly God and truly man! The Bible is about the love of Jesus Christ for all!
John 1:1, 14; 3:16; 1 John 4:8
It is by freely believing IN CHRIST by GRACE that we are chosen and elect IN Christ who is God's beloved Son and the only One chosen!
Luke 9:35;
Ephesians 4, 13;
Romans 8:29
These riches in Christ are a result of our freely repenting and being faithful to Christ, which we can only do by the GRACE of God which is "God working in us!"
1 Corinthians 15:10
Apart from Jesus we can do nothing! John 15:5
But God loves His creation and all people and wants all to be saved!
1 Timothy 2:3-6
In love Jesus willingly died for all in order to raise from the dead to conquer death, sin, and the devil for all!
This is Christus Victor!
Hebrews 2:9, 2:14-15;
1 Corinthians 15:22;
Colossians 1:20
God's loving Grace, which works in all who are dead in sin, enables ALL people to freely choose to love God and be saved!
John 6:65; 12:32-33;
Titus 2:11
But the choice to love God remains in all people!
John 7:17; 11:35
The divine order is:
1) Enabling Grace for all!
John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11
2) Our freedom to repent and be faithful to Christ! Acts 17:30-31
3) Being united and made alive with Christ (regeneration)!
John 20:31
What the Calvinist system does not have is God's Grace "working in us to enable us," to be free to choose to be in Christ!
Philippians 2:12-13;
John 6:65, 12:33-33;
Titus 2:11
The Calvinist system cannot answer why Adam was created very good and created in God's image and likeness with a "mysterious free will" and Adam lived in a perfect environment and had the Spirit of God and yet Adam disobeyed God and fell from grace!
Therefore, Christians can also fall from grace! Galatians 5:4
The Calvinist belief that God predestined most to go to hell, and that they are given no grace to freely believe is not the God of the Bible Who is Love!
1 John 4:8
God foreknew all those who would believe in His Son by God's Grace!
God predestined them to be like Christ!
Romans 8:28-30;
Ephesians 1:4-5
God did not determine who would believe in Him and who would not! God’s foreknowledge does not cause man’s choices!
To choose Christ and receive Christ's love for us will be Heaven.
To reject Christ and Christ's love for us will be the experience of Hell!
The predestined reprobates in the Calvinist system never have a chance to experience the love of God! This is injustice!
John 3:16
Calvinists believe that in the atonement God the Father poured out wrath and damned and cut off God His Son on the cross! (See Sproul, McArthur, White, etc. sermons) This is a heresy condemned in the Ecumenical Councils because it splits the Eternal Holy Trinity!
Christ died in order to raise from the dead and destroy death, sin, and the devil on behalf of us all!
And now God commands everyone everywhere by the grace of God to repent!
Acts 17:30-31;
Romans 1:20
“not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” - 2 Peter 3:9b. we have free will. God doesn’t want us to go to hell, he doesn’t create some people for hell, people who go to hell choose it. That’s why it says “come” to repentance. It’s a choice.
Right on. 👍
Facts
You have to read it in context…who is this message speaking to? Not just everyone.
If God is not willing that any should perish, how come most persons of the world are doing just that? Peter here is speaking to believers! That's the context, that God is not willing that a Christian should go to hell. Fairly consistent, don't you think?
acts 13;48
This teaching is biblical and it’s so sad that someone would deny it “ for the very fact that it’s so comforting knowing that he has a purpose for everything that takes place in our lives!
6:18 I'm glad you said "personally" bc the Scriptures say only a few will find salvation. (Matthew 7:14)
Romans 9, if understood as Leighton Flowers explains it, makes so much more sense and is more beautiful than any Calvinist interpretation. Romans 9 is not about salvation, but God's redemptive plan and the people He's elected to bring it about. Paul is talking to hardened Jews who crucified the Messiah, and they must accept that was the role that God chose them to play.
That's because Flowers is qualified to exegete the scripture, unlike many Calvinists "theologians" who are like 5-yr old wannabe mechanics disassembling and reassembling an engine, only to find a whole box of leftover parts once they're done. Then they have to convince themselves why those parts aren't really needed.
@@timmarchbanks5241 regardless of how you spin it, Calvinism gets it wrong
Calvinist is a cult and no salvation at all.
@@thomasthepromise8430 It's so funny that non-reformed believers accuse reformed believers of handling the scripture in a way that the non-reformed person actually has to do in order to not come to the straightforward conclusions that reformed people do.Just watch the debate between Flowers and James White on Romans 9.Dr. White went first and went through the chapter verse by verse and drew his interpretation from a straightforward reading of the chapter without going to any other verses in the Bible to support his interpretation.When it was Leighton's turn he did not exegete the chapter and bounced around to other scriptures to try to make his case for his interpretation.
@@Brenda-qo4ko what you described White doing is called eisegesis, the exact opposite of exegesis. Proper exegesis must be done hermeneutically, which involves applying the particular passage being studied into its proper context. In other words, it is utterly irresponsible to study Romans 9 without considering how it fits into the context of the whole letter, and the whole letter within the context of the whole counsel of scripture. And that's what Flowers is doing, thus he is practicing proper hermeneutics and exegesis. White is reading his own philosophical system into Romans 9, then making Romans 9 defend his philosophical worldview. I really hope you can see the difference.
Whenever you say “ watch this” it’s reminds me of dear, sweet Charles Stanley
Lauri Snipes oh YES! I love when Charles Stanley says that. He really grabs my attention.
“Watch This”
😂😂❤️❤️❤️ he’s so sweet.
Charles Stanley was a false teacher, who rejected this very doctrine, and never taught on it. He also never publicly rebuked his son, who is a heretic, and false teacher, as well. When so-called pastors go beyond, or reject "take away" from scripture, they are not gatekeepers of the faith. It didn't matter that Charles was Andy's father, they both profess Christ, and therefore should be held accountable to their scriptural errors and false teachings. That includes calling out heresy, whether they be your family member or not. Jesus said that "if you are not willing to forsake lived ones to follow Me then you are not worthy of me!"
* loved
@@downsify 🙁. Well I happened to love him. Btw he is baptist so a Calvinist
This really moved me to tears thinking about God's sovereignty.
Sproul is a Western reformed theologian!
Consider the following from the Christian EAST!
The MISSING DOCTRINE in the Protestant predestination debate is Eastern Biblical GRACE which is "God working in us" to enable ALL people to be free to receive or reject God's love!
Philippians 2:12-13;
Titus 2:11;
1 Timothy 2:3-6
The order is,
Grace > Repentance/Faith > Life in Christ (regeneration)
Jesus is truly God and truly man! The Bible is about the love of Jesus Christ for all!
John 1:1, 14; 3:16; 1 John 4:8
It is by freely believing IN CHRIST by GRACE that we are chosen and elect IN Christ who is God's beloved Son and the only One chosen!
Luke 9:35;
Ephesians 4, 13;
Romans 8:29
These riches in Christ are a result of our freely repenting and being faithful to Christ, which we can only do by the GRACE of God which is "God working in us!"
1 Corinthians 15:10
Apart from Jesus we can do nothing! John 15:5
But God loves His creation and all people and wants all to be saved!
1 Timothy 2:3-6
In love Jesus willingly died for all in order to raise from the dead to conquer death, sin, and the devil for all!
This is Christus Victor!
Hebrews 2:9, 2:14-15;
1 Corinthians 15:22;
Colossians 1:20
God's loving Grace, which works in all who are dead in sin, enables ALL people to freely choose to love God and be saved!
John 6:65; 12:32-33;
Titus 2:11
But the choice to love God remains in all people!
John 7:17; 11:35
The divine order is:
1) Enabling Grace for all!
John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11
2) Our freedom to repent and be faithful to Christ! Acts 17:30-31
3) Being united and made alive with Christ (regeneration)!
John 20:31
What the Calvinist system does not have is God's Grace "working in us to enable us," to be free to choose to be in Christ!
Philippians 2:12-13;
John 6:65, 12:33-33;
Titus 2:11
The Calvinist system cannot answer why Adam was created very good and created in God's image and likeness with a "mysterious free will" and Adam lived in a perfect environment and had the Spirit of God and yet Adam disobeyed God and fell from grace!
Therefore, Christians can also fall from grace! Galatians 5:4
The Calvinist belief that God predestined most to go to hell, and that they are given no grace to freely believe is not the God of the Bible Who is Love!
1 John 4:8
God foreknew all those who would believe in His Son by God's Grace!
God predestined them to be like Christ!
Romans 8:28-30;
Ephesians 1:4-5
God did not determine who would believe in Him and who would not! God’s foreknowledge does not cause man’s choices!
To choose Christ and receive Christ's love for us will be Heaven.
To reject Christ and Christ's love for us will be the experience of Hell!
The predestined reprobates in the Calvinist system never have a chance to experience the love of God! This is injustice!
John 3:16
Calvinists believe that in the atonement God the Father poured out wrath and damned and cut off God His Son on the cross! (See Sproul, McArthur, White, etc. sermons) This is a heresy condemned in the Ecumenical Councils because it splits the Eternal Holy Trinity!
Christ died in order to raise from the dead and destroy death, sin, and the devil on behalf of us all!
And now God commands everyone everywhere by the grace of God to repent!
Acts 17:30-31;
Romans 1:20
What a WONDEROUS HOLY GOD....So full of MERCY & GRACE... Thank you for sharing this...
I think many confuse foreknowledge with predestination.
but wouldn't foreknowledge would mean that we are saved based on works not by God's grace through faith in Christ through election??
@@victoriat9145 what do you mean by that?
@@victoriat9145 The only work that saves us is Christ's work on the cross. While He had foreknowledge on who will be His, His grace still is shown to all when He knocks on the unbelievers heart.
Completely agree. We have free will, but in God's infinite knowledge and being (not limited or constrained by space or time), He knows how we will act before we do.
@@Anthony-vx6cs What do you mean by free will? Because if God creates with foreknowledge, how is that any different than predestination? He knew what would happen and He didn't change anything about it whilst creating; thus, everything that has ever happened and will happen was part of the plan in creation. If you mean we have ultimate, autonomous, freedom in our choices and have the capacity to choose God over ourselves, then I'm sorry but you believe in a works based religion which is heresy. No one will boast remember? But if we can of our own freewill choose God then there is righteousness found in us. Are we not dead in sins and trespasses? None choose God, NO NOT ONE. We're only free in the sense that we freely choose what we want, but what we want is never God. Only God can save, and He saves us by changing our hearts, changing our nature, and humbling us, and the way He does that is through His Word.
Amen Jeff amazing video God is sovereign over everything and in control and we need to just put our faith and trust in Him and do His will our lives our the best in His hands and He knows best
Jesus talks about his sheep hearing his voice. I hear your voice Lord! Hallelujah!
Why try to confuse people? The simplicity of salvation in Christ is Grace
My view of presdestination is as such: God is sovereign and as such knows all and everything since before creation. He allows things to happen, good and bad, to His glory. Thank God He keeps His hands over all of us, or Satan would surely kill us all. That being said, He still gave us free will to make our own choices, good or bad, while always knowing what those choices would be. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
I agree mostly! God is sovereign, but its him who chooses us. Calvanist believe we have free will but not in choosing God because we are dead in our sins. So God is the one that draws and saves us, the only place I defer from calvinsm maybe is that that somehow out of our knowledge we are still responsible to respond to God when he calls us.
Predestination is NOT about the salvation of lost people.
It’s about the guaranteed future of SAVED people.
Predestination doesn’t speak to who is saved or not.
Rather, it speaks to the ‘DESTINY’ of those who ARE SAVED/elect.
It speaks to God’s ENDS for the elect who are ALREADY IN CHRIST THROUGH FAITH (Believers).
It is the BELIEVERS who are the ones who love God, and who are therefore foreknown by Him.
IN CHRIST they possess redemption and the forgiveness of sins by faith.
BELIEVERS are predestined by God.
*It does NOT say that unbelievers are predestined TO BE believers.*
Predestination is mentioned 4 times in the Bible in 3 separate verses and NOT ONCE IS IT REFERRING TO SALVATION.
In each case the passage clearly says WHO is being predestinated and TO WHAT they are being predestinated to.
In all those passages ask your self WHO is being predestined and WHAT are they being predestined to?
*Not once is it an unbeliever.*
*Not once is it predestined to salvation.*
BELIEVERS are predestined to inherit salvation, to be justified and to be brought into glory.
EPHESIANS 1:4 - BELIEVERS chosen to be Holy and Blameless IN CHRIST.
EPHESIANS 1:5 - BELIEVERS
are predestined to be adopted children of God BY JESUS:
EPHESIANS 1:11,12 - BELIEVERS (who first trusted in Christ) are predestined to be the PRAISE OF HIS GLORY:
ROMANS 8:29 - BELIEVERS (those who are in IN CHRIST) are predestined to be CONFORMED TO HIS IMAGE (through sanctification).
but it still all hinges on salvation.
Cliff Cartwright Predestination hinges on being SAVED.
SAVED people are chosen to be Holy and blameless IN CHRIST, are predestined to be adopted children of God BY JESUS, predestined to be to the praise of His glory and predestined to be conformed to His image
Aaron Pilkey Nonone can go to Jesus unless it is granted. No one in the flesh can please God. Is believing in Jesus pleasing to God? Yes. Man cannot do that in the flesh. You have to be born again with the Spirit to go to heaven. That is all God. Flesh is useless. 👉
“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
And he said, “This is why I told you that 👉👉👉no one can come to me unless it is 👉granted👈 him by the Father.””
John 6:63, 65 ESV
Jesus makes this crystal clear 👉
“All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and 👉👉👉👉👉👉👉👉👉👉no one knows the Father except the Son and 👉anyone to whom the Son 👉chooses 👈to reveal him.”
Matthew 11:27 ESV
Can’t get any clearer than that.
S Hopson You said: You have to be born again with the spirit to go to heaven.”
Reply: Yes exactly. No one here is arguing against that so not quite sure what lead you to post the obvious.
You said: “That is all of God.”
Reply: Again, I’m not quite sure why you’re making these obvious statements that I agree with.
Are you actually ignorant enough to think I don’t believe this?
You said: “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.”
Reply: Again, no one here is arguing against this so not quite sure what your point is.
S Hopson You quoted Matthew 11:27.
Can I ask you why you willfully chose to leave out the very next verse?
Matthew 11:27
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Come unto me, 👉👉 all 👈👈ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Couldn’t be any more clear.
God has called EVERYONE.
YOU: Come unto me only those who I’ve secretly chosen
JESUS: Come unto me ALL who are weary and heavy laden.
Could t be more clear who Jesus chooses to reveal the Father to.
ANYONE who comes to Him! 👈👈👈
John 6:37
37 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; 👉👉👉 AND him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 👈👈👈
REVELATION 22:17
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And 👉WHOSOEVER WILL, 👈let him take the water of life 👉 FREELY.👈
Couldn’t be more clear.
My only question to you is do you prevent people from coming?
Revelation 22:17 says LET HIM COME. 👈👈
Do you let them come or do you put a tone of bondage ba I on their necks and tell them they can’t come unless they’ve been chosen?
Take of the water of life FREELY 👈
QUESTION: Do you put a price on it?
Do you put a price on this water of life that you have to be chosen in order to drink from?
I got Mormons on my reddit post watching this video, yo!
@@gustavmahler1466 What's up?
@@gustavmahler1466 Why did you erase your last comment?
They're probably like.....uh.... And these guy's think we're strange?
Hello fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. As much as I find most of the content on Apologia Studios to be Biblically sound, the teachings on Calvinism is where I break away and STRONGLY disagree on. I grew up under Calvinism--steeped in it up to my eyeballs. I am of the strongest conviction that it is a false teaching, and is even heretical. Apologia Studios, in this video, you reference Romans 9: 10-13 ("Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated): this is a common reference that I have heard out of many a Calvinist. My counter argument to that is the that the word for "hated" in this passage of Scripture is one of "preference"--meaning that God preferred and Sovereignly chose Jacob and not Esau, as the continuing successor of the promises He made to Abraham and Isaac. It does not actually mean that God hates Esau in the sense of a despising type of hatred. The same (idiomatic) form of “hate” is found in another passage of Scripture: in Luke 14:26 when Jesus says: “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.” The idea of “hate” in this passage is one of preference, or loyalty. Jesus is not actually saying to hate your family members as we might think. Rather, He is saying that when a disciple of His has a choice to make in following Jesus and His teachings, (at the risk of being rejected by a family member), then a true disciple of His would be loyal to Him [Jesus] vs. their family member.
Next, the over-arching theme of the entire book of Romans is that of FAITH. Paul many times is addressing unbelieving Israelites, who think that by virtue of them being physical descendants of Abraham, that somehow they are automatically saved...as if they are somehow inherently “better” than other people groups and that they automatically and exclusively get God’s Grace and Favor no matter what. Paul’s point is to address and correct this wrong way of thinking by the unbelieving Jews. His point is that it does not matter if one is a Jew or Greek or Gentile, Salvation is by Faith, and not works of the law. In essence, Paul says that these unbelieving Jews do not have the right to question whom God chooses to save outside of the nation of Israel (As in Romans 9:30-33: “What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written:“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”).
The example of Pharaoh in Romans 9:17 deserves to be cross referenced with the account given in Exodus: and in a nutshell, the hardening of Pharaoh's heart is a judicial hardening, not an arbitrary one...since Pharaoh himself hardened his heart towards God Almighty, God in turn completes the hardening in order to deliver Pharaoh over to destruction, so that God’s Power and Sovereignty would be on display. Hence, the idea of “vessels of wrath”, which follows in Romans 9: 22-24: Paul’s example here has to do with God’s PATIENCE towards the rebellious...or his longsuffering (as in verse 22) instead of immediate destruction. Those that make a final, deliberate decision to rail against God have sealed their judgment. And on the other hand, those who seek after God with humility and Faith, God uses as “vessels of Mercy” (verse 23), to demonstrate His Sovereign Glory and Goodness and Redemptive works in their lives. Paul reminds his audience that God says “I will have Mercy on whomever I will have mercy”...this reminder is to say to the Jew: it is up to God to grant His mercy/compassion on people who are not Israelites. I think Calvinistic theology just plain misses the mark on all the above points, and miss-appropriates Romans 9 as a whole.
Another argument that I make against Calvinism is that of Romans 8: 29-30: “For whom He FOREKNEW, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.” The Greek word “foreknew” means just that-to know something ahead of time, before it even happens. God knows there will be many that reject Him. So, the ones that do make the choice to accept Him, those are the ones that He predestines to bring them to the point of Salvation. From my understanding, Calvinism takes this passage and says that it means God only predestines those whom He chooses to predestine, but that is not what the verse says at all. It clearly says that God FOREKNEW the ones that would choose Saving Faith. And in His foreknowledge, He continues the work of predestination to bring them to Salvation. The passage says NOTHING about God choosing some for Salvation, and then intentionally choosing others for damnation (destruction)...as is taught by John Calvin. Furthermore, when John 3:16 says: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life”, the “whosoever” means whosoever, not just a select few. I take that verse at face value: God made it possible for everyone to come to Saving Faith, but He gives people the free will to accept or reject Him. Also, 2 Peter 3:9 says that God is “not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” So if God does not have the desire that any should perish, why would He then intentionally save some, but not others? Just doesn’t add up. Much of Calvinism just does not comport with Scripture, or the Character of God.
And lastly, when it comes to Church history, I have always wondered why most Calvinists seem to focus exclusively on the Reformation period (out of which John Calvin came out of)??? I bring this up because if one were to study Church history in the 1st/2nd/3rd Centuries, one would see that the ideas John Calvin propagated in his lifetime were nothing new. For example, the early Church fathers record that there was a Gnostic school called the Valentinians, who taught (among many other heretical ideas) that some men were predestined to go to hell, had no free will, and had no chance of being saved. The early Church fathers countered that Gnostic teaching-- and taught instead that man had free will, no one is compelled to accept Salvation; but that Salvation is presented as a free gift to all men. They taught that NO ONE is PREDESTINED to go to hell. We have records of what the early Church fathers wrote and what they taught. Many of those records that we have came from Church fathers who were either direct disciples of the Apostles or were their successive disciples. I would challenge any self-proclaiming Calvinist to research Church doctrine of the early 1st-3rd centuries. Why stop at the Reformation? I understand that a lot of Church doctrine got corrupted by Roman Catholicism, but the doctrine of the 1st-3rd centuries is pretty rock solid. Bottom line: early Church doctrine taught AGAINST what the Valentinians taught, and later what John Calvin would re-teach during the Reformation era. Again, what Calvin taught wasn’t anything new, he just added a few extra ideas/concepts of his own to it. Based on Church history and based on what I read in my Bible, Calvinisim is a false doctrine. That is my strong conviction.
My humble understanding, and I admit I could be wrong, is that because God is omniscient, all powerful and works outside of time the issue of predestination is probably one that we can't grasp. I do, however, think the lines between predestined and foreknew can be blurry.
Romans 8:29-30 says, "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters". My interpretation of this is that because God works outside of time, he already knew who will accept him and they were predestinated to be conformed to the image of God.
The verses of elect and potter/clay are similar, basically saying that time is not a thing to God and that he already knows everything, such as who will be saved and not saved. Again, could be wrong, but I just think our minds are so limited that these issues are not something we can fully comprehend.
@@ebbb365 In Jeremiah 7 God says, "People built places to sacrifice their children (in fire) to foreign gods, and He (God) says, "I did NOT COMMAND this, nor did it enter my mind." So, who do we believe, Jeff Durbin, RC Sproul, James White, John Piper or God Almighty and His Holy Word, the Bible? So, while God does predestine some things, this verse clearly says NOT everything. It's like a university predestining a football team (they WILL have a team next season) but giving free will to players themselves to decide whether or not to come out for that team. God, in His Sovereignty, has the POWER to give mankind a certain degree of free will to choose or reject Him and His Christ. This free will, given to man by God, started in the garden when God said to Adam and Eve, "You can eat from any tree in the garden except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." God did NOT say, "You MUST eat from all of the trees except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil," rather He gave them a choice to eat from whatever trees they chose except that one specific tree. And by the way, they CHOSE to disobey and eat from the very tree God said don't eat of it.
These are just a few of the MANY verses that speak of people making a choice; where Calvinism says, there is "No choosing" God decides. Isaiah 56:4 says, "For this is what the Lord says: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who CHOOSE what pleases me..." Isaiah 65:12 says, "...I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and CHOSE what displeases me.” Isaiah 7:15 says, "...He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and CHOOSE the right..." Proverbs 3:31 says, "... Envy thou not the oppressor, and CHOOSE none of his ways." 1 Chronicles 21:11 says, "So Gad went to David and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Take your CHOICE: three years of famine, three months of being swept away before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the Lord..."
@@Mike-qt7jp You misunderstand Calvinism on a fundamental level. God either makes you do good. Or leaves you to the lusts of the flesh. Or for a believers case. Sin actually does the sinning if God does not always keep you. You still have two options, otherwise known as a choice. But God will either make you make the right one, or leave you to your flesh. Which will always make the wrong one.
@@Mike-qt7jphere we see God controling all the people he didn't want to believe, John 12:39-40 (KJV) Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
@@Mike-qt7jphere we find the elect is all ordained to eternal life, Acts 13:48 (KJV) And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
I have believed in God my entire life! I remember being 3 yo old, and not allowing anyone to sit next to me, bc Jesus was beside me. Back in the late 70’s early 80’s, my sister’s friends had to sit on each other’s lap bc Jesus had to have a seat first. I chuckle at that quite often, bc it truly is child-like. Since I was so young, and for 47 years (44 that I can remember,) I’ve always known God being my creator. So, is it possible to be that young, and already believe wholeheartedly, that God is my creator? There’s no way, unless God had revealed Himself to me, that I wasn’t specifically chosen. I was chosen to be a Believer, from day one?
I’m probably not explaining it correctly, but are ppl chosen, before even grasping who God is? He had to have revealed Himself to me, but yet I still had a choice? It’s so hard to wrap my head around, bc God knew what I’d choose millennia’s ago. But I still had a choice. 🤷🏻♀️
Think about it like this:
There’s a piece of paper with a boy inside of a building, and then there’s a car going 100 mph heading straight toward the wall the boy is sitting closest to…
You as a “Being” outside of this paper realm can see both the boy and the car driver without either of their knowledge, and you can see what’s about to occur before the boy can… in fact, you’re outside of their time, space, and matter completely- you’re of a higher dimension entirely… this is how God is to us.
Thus, while God is all knowing and can see all things it’s less about predestination and more about leaving the page to “write” itself in a way.
Hopefully this helps.
@@Ej2SavageNot exactly… Scripture says that God is active in authoring history; He even wields Assyria like an axe against Judah in Isaiah 10.
He is not a passive, looking-down-the-corridors-of-time God… He is the author and sustainer of all things.
@@CameronSzwed I agree, he definitely isn’t just a spectator, but he’s also not always preforming “an act of God” either… somewhere in the middle more than likely
We become the chosen when we choose Him.
@@BravyM9 I love this!!! 🥰🥰🥰♥️
More and more I feel about Calvinists like I do Democrats. I used to find them annoying - now I can't stand to listen to their angry arrogant rants. Some (to borrow from the Apostle Paul) are so puffed up with knowledge but the funny thing is that their message is quite simple - nothing you do in this life matters. Who will be saved? Decided. Good works? Oh heaven, forbid, someone might think you are trying to earn your salvation. In fact, if you have seen Seinfeld, they are actually Costanzists - as when Jerry and George were writing a TV script and George demanded that it be about nothing. You say, well it is not work for me simply to receive the gift and they go crazy "NO, YOU MUST DO NOTHING!" Well God commands us to be holy..."NO, YOU MUST DO NOTHING YOU ARE TOTALLY DEPRAVED! GOD DID NOT REALLY MEAN THAT."
The doctrine of eleccion makes us humble , understanding that we're not elected by anything we can do, just because God wants, and that doesn't make us better, thank you Lord.
Amen!
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:3-4 KJV
Amen 😇
Telling people God predestined most of His creation for Hell is pretty sick.
It does tremendous damage to the Gospel Mission.
At issue is God's sovereignty. He's either sovereign over everything or He is not God by attribute.
We are in a fallen state, being saved is our choice. This is what predestination is.
@@junkerjorg6310 if its our choice to make. How is it predestined?
@@jeffcooper9363 The issue is a Calvinists undermining of God's sovereignty, thinking God must meticulously predetermine everything in order for His will to be done (as if man's will can trump God's will), whereas the God of the Bible is so much greater than that....He has created man with free will yet despite men making free choices (all terrible btw except the choice to receive Christ and have faith in God) His will is being done....that is a much more powerful and sovereign God.
We don’t know how many people have been predestined to hell, but God is free to save who he wants. Who are you to speak back to God?
Nope, the Bible does NOT teach Calvinism! You eisegete that into the text and it’s blasphemous
You guys are spot-on!
I'm extremely particular in what I believe!
Thank you Lord Jesus!
And thank you too guys!
I'm really glad you guys weren't my first introduction to Christianity. Double predestination is nonsense.
As a Calvinist, I fully agree. Double predestination is nonsense. Fortunately, Calvinism doesn't entail it, and only a small minority actually believe it.
@@oracleoftroy From the Institute's "All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death". That's double predestination, Calvin himself was at least being consistent. If God chooses some for eternal life and just leaves everyone else alone (which is what modern-day Calvinists say to avoid double predestination) that still implies double predestination. You can't be a 5 point Calvinist and not, at least implicitly, believe in double predestination.
Did you hear Flame (Christian rapper) has shifted from a reformed calvinist to Lutheran? He has a video of him discussing bible verses from the Lutheran perspective and the shift from Calvinism with Jordan B Cooper.
Honestly, they make reasonable assertions and I think a dialogue between y’all would be fantastic and super helpful!
PLEASE READ THIS TO THE END MY FRIEND 🙏❤✝️😎🥰
God's CHOSEN ELECT were Chosen by God and GIVEN JESUS, BEFORE the
W🌎RLD BEGAN, according to the Scriptures. We need to die of our flesh daily, Matthew 16:24 So are we the ones who chose God? John 6:44 No, cause if a sinner is LOST IN SIN. How can ANYONE make a free will choice TO SAVE THEMSELVES ⁉️👎
THEY CAN'T AS FREE WILL CHOICE IS NOWHERE FOUND IN THE BIBLE.
In FACT Jesus spoke against it in 2 Peter 2:9 10 (the LOST is Self-willed) and in Titus 1:7-8 (the SAVED is NOT 🚫 Self-willed)
Also Jesus said in Matthew 7 21 23
Just cuz you say Lord Lord, DOES NOT 🚫 get you into the kingdom of heaven, BUT THOSE THAT DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. (Spiritual Obedience)
v. 22 And many will say unto me on that day (THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT Rev. 20:11-15), Lord Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name cast out devils 👿, AND DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS? (Works in the flesh) Romans 8 8
v. 23 And I (Jesus) Will profess unto them, depart from me, you that work iniquity, I NEVER EVER KNEW YOU.
I BELIEVE that Free Will choice is 100% HERESY, or False Teaching ACCORDING to the SCRIPTURES as a Real Christian is to do the WILL of GOD ALMIGHTY which is called OBEDIENCE.
Verses of B4 the W🌎rld Even Begin.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on HIS right hand (HIS SHEEP), Come, ye Blessed of MY FATHER, INHERIT THE KINGDOM PREPARED FOR YOU FROM THE FOUNDATION of the
W🌎RLD.
(Goats are on the left)
John 17:5-6 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE W🌎RLD WAS.
6 I have manifested (REVEALED) THY NAME UNTO THE MEN which God gave Jesus.
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me,,, which thou hast given me: FOR THOU LOVEDST ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD.
Acts 3:21 of all things, WHICH GOD HAS SPOKEN BY THE MOUTH OF ALL HIS HOLY PROPHETS SINCE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN.
What does PRE-DESTINATED mean?
Pre means before the WORLD 🌎 began,
Destination means where you end up after time is over.
Ephesians 1:4-5 According as GOD HAS CHOSEN US IN JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD, that we should be holy and without blame before JESUS in GOD:
5 HAVING PRE-DESTINATED US UNTO THE ADOPTION OF CHILDREN BY JESUS CHRIST TO HIMSELF, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURES OF HIS WILL.
Ephesians 1:11
In whom also we have OBTAINED AN INHERITANCE, BEING PRE-DESTINATED according to the purpose of HIM WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNCIL OF HIS OWN WILL.
1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, WHICH GOD ORDAINED BEFORE THE W🌎RLD UNTO OUR GLORY
2 Thessalonians 2:13 ,,,, BECAUSE GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION of the SPIRIT and BELIEF of the TRUTH
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath SAVED US, AND CALLED US WITH AN HOLY CALLING, Not according to our works, (or FREE WILL CHOICE in the flesh)
BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE, WHICH WAS GIVEN US IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE
W🌎RLD BEGAN.
Titus 1:2 In HOPE of ETERNAL LIFE, which GOD, that cannot lie, PROMISED BEFORE THE
W🌎RLD BEGAN.
1st Peter 1:20 Who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD, but was MANIFEST (OR REVEALED) IN THESE LAST TIMES FOR YOU.
The Cross, Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the EARTH 🌎 shall WORSHIP HIM, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB SLAIN (OR CRUCIFIED) FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD.
The Lost, Revelation 17:8 ,,,and they that dwell on the EARTH 🌎 shall wonder, WHOSE NAMES WERE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD,,,,
Who will never chosen to be saved.
God is using the lost to bring this Lost W🌎RLD to an end, and to Earn Crowns to Glorify God our Heavenly WITH THE TRAILS WE GO THROUGH.
John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, TO THEM GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME SONS OF GOD, even to them that believe in HIS name:
13 Which were born, NOT 🚫 of blood, nor of the WILL OF THE FLESH, nor of the WILL OF MAN, but of GOD'S WILL.
John 8:36 IF,, the Son therefore shall MAKE YOU FREE, ye shall be free indeed.
John 8:43 Why don't you understand my speech? even because ye CANNOT HEAR MY WORD.
John 8:47 He that is of God hears God's words: ye therefore HEAR THEM NOT, BECAUSE YE ARE NOT OF GOD.
John 10:3-4 To him the porter (door keeper) opened; and THE SHEEP HEARS HIS VOICE: AND HE CALLETH HIS OWN SHEEP BY NAME, AND LEADETH THEM OUT.
4 And when he putteth forth HIS OWN SHEEP, he goes before them, and THE SHEEP FOLLOW HIM: FOR THEY KNOW HIS VOICE.
John 10:26-27 But ye believe not, because YE ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP, as I said unto you.
27 MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I KNOW THEM, AND THEY FOLLOW ME:
John 13:18 I SPEAK NOT OF YOU ALL: I KNOW WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN,,, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
Speaking of Judas Iscariot.
John 14:17 Even the SPIRIT of TRUTH; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: BUT YE KNOW HIM; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 15:4-5 Abide in me, and I in you. AS THE BRANCH CANNOT BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF, EXCEPT IT ABIDE IN THE VINE; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same brings forth MUCH fruit: FOR WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING.
John 15:16 YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU,,
15:19
19 If ye were of the world, the W🌎RLD would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, BUT I (Jesus) HAVE CHOSEN YOU OUT OF THE
W🌎RLD, therefore the world hates you.
John 17:2,,,THAT HE (Jesus) SHOULD GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO AS MANY AS THOU (God) HAS GIVEN HIM.
JOHN 17:6 I HAVE MANIFESTED OR REVEALED MY NAME UNTO THE MAN WHICH GOD GAVE TO ME OUT OF THE W🌎RLD.
John 17:9 I PRAY 🙏 not for the W🌎RLD but for them which God has given me,
John 17:11 ,,keep through the own name (Jesus) Those whom thou has given me that they may be one as we are.
John 18:37 EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HERE'S MY VOICE.
Revelation 3:20 I stand at the door (OF YOUR ❤) and knock, IF ANYONE HEARS MY (SPIRITUAL) VOICE, they will open the door,, ETC
Must I go on.
Pastor jeff 1John 5:7 nkjv And there are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Spirit and these three are one.
Godbless america.
Amen and amen Jeff. Sometimes we can't imagine the magnitude of the fact that God gives grace to ANY of us so we take it for granted. Thank you for fleshing this out. When I think of His grace and His power I have no choice but to fall to my knees in a heap. I am undone.
Grace is miraculous. None of us can understand it, the closer we come to God, the more we realize how miraculous his grace is.
But, God has given us commandments. How can he judge his own creation contrary to Genesis chapter 1?
He called it good. Why then did he create some for glory and others for destruction if they cannot choose what he has called good?
And the idea that we are both free in will and yet predetermined is anything but compatable. You cannot be both free and determined.
Ought implies can. -Immanuel Kant.
Frank Scherer straw man argument. You do not have a grasp of Calvinism. Calvinism does not deny free will.
@@nicolaslosito5735 No but I do have a degree in philosophy and a God given mind of reason.
Let me tell you, the question of free will vs determinism has been debated for all recorded history with neighter side progressing any further on the other. Compatablism is unsound, in the realm of possibility, it is the only impossibility. What you are claiming is determinism. Nothing else, nothing more. You cannot be predetermined and also free to choose.
What do you mean by free will? You mean God allows people to freely choose what he has already decided? If so, that is exactly what free will, is not.
In all that recorded history... Determinism has not been the position of the God of Israel or later, the followers of Christ.
Determinism is a materialist world view. Book of Genesis is ontological at the core. The very purpose for which we are created for is rooted in choice and is the illustration that God has given to us for understanding of our very origin.
Teach a child the story of creation in Genesis. Go immediately to your doctrine and the child will know you are reading from another book or else from a very confused author
TWO Amens? WOW! That's some truth now, huh?
Pastor Jeff, how did you come to the belief that the majority of humanity will be saved in the end? What about the narrow road that few will find?
Yeah I'm interested to hear if there's any biblical support for that. I'm not exactly sure what he meant but I want him to expand on that thought
Yeah I’d like for him to flesh that out
Jeff is breaking the second commandment by creating a false god, warm and fuzzy God who doesn't punish .. God is wrath as well as love and His justice is perfect, no one will be getting a free pass on their day of judgement , Jesus is the free pass and most will reject Him
busybody1 I’m not sure where you get a warm and fuzzy God from Calvinism. . . I agree there is a cheap grace gospel that is not biblical. But I have never heard that from Jeff or Apologia. That’s more word faith NAR.
@@busybody1474 I agree with what you're saying, but you are rushing to a hasty judgement there. You don't know that Jeff is assuming those things.
The line about giving most people grace is why I leaned SDA partially a bit. I'm moving Reformed swiftly. I had already listened to Apologia and Voddie before. Listening to a lot of Voddie started moving me back.
Consider the following from the Christian EAST!
The MISSING DOCTRINE in the Protestant predestination debate is Eastern Biblical GRACE which is "God working in us" to enable ALL people to be free to receive or reject God's love!
Philippians 2:12-13;
Titus 2:11;
1 Timothy 2:3-6
The order is,
Grace > Repentance/Faith > Life in Christ (regeneration)
Jesus is truly God and truly man! The Bible is about the love of Jesus Christ for all!
John 1:1, 14; 3:16; 1 John 4:8
It is by freely believing IN CHRIST by GRACE that we are chosen and elect IN Christ who is God's beloved Son and the only One chosen!
Luke 9:35;
Ephesians 4, 13;
Romans 8:29
These riches in Christ are a result of our freely repenting and being faithful to Christ, which we can only do by the GRACE of God which is "God working in us!"
1 Corinthians 15:10
Apart from Jesus we can do nothing! John 15:5
But God loves His creation and all people and wants all to be saved!
1 Timothy 2:3-6
In love Jesus willingly died for all in order to raise from the dead to conquer death, sin, and the devil for all!
This is Christus Victor!
Hebrews 2:9, 2:14-15;
1 Corinthians 15:22;
Colossians 1:20
God's loving Grace, which works in all who are dead in sin, enables ALL people to freely choose to love God and be saved!
John 6:65; 12:32-33;
Titus 2:11
But the choice to love God remains in all people!
John 7:17; 11:35
The divine order is:
1) Enabling Grace for all!
John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11
2) Our freedom to repent and be faithful to Christ! Acts 17:30-31
3) Being united and made alive with Christ (regeneration)!
John 20:31
What the Calvinist system does not have is God's Grace "working in us to enable us," to be free to choose to be in Christ!
Philippians 2:12-13;
John 6:65, 12:33-33;
Titus 2:11
The Calvinist system cannot answer why Adam was created very good and created in God's image and likeness with a "mysterious free will" and Adam lived in a perfect environment and had the Spirit of God and yet Adam disobeyed God and fell from grace!
Therefore, Christians can also fall from grace! Galatians 5:4
The Calvinist belief that God predestined most to go to hell, and that they are given no grace to freely believe is not the God of the Bible Who is Love!
1 John 4:8
God foreknew all those who would believe in His Son by God's Grace!
God predestined them to be like Christ!
Romans 8:28-30;
Ephesians 1:4-5
God did not determine who would believe in Him and who would not! God’s foreknowledge does not cause man’s choices!
To choose Christ and receive Christ's love for us will be Heaven.
To reject Christ and Christ's love for us will be the experience of Hell!
The predestined reprobates in the Calvinist system never have a chance to experience the love of God! This is injustice!
John 3:16
Calvinists believe that in the atonement God the Father poured out wrath and damned and cut off God His Son on the cross! (See Sproul, McArthur, White, etc. sermons) This is a heresy condemned in the Ecumenical Councils because it splits the Eternal Holy Trinity!
Christ died in order to raise from the dead and destroy death, sin, and the devil on behalf of us all!
And now God commands everyone everywhere by the grace of God to repent!
Acts 17:30-31;
Romans 1:20
Jeff’s argument that out of Mercy God chooses who to save is no different to saying He decrees who is saved and who isn’t, regardless of how much emotive conviction it is said with. If God decrees everything, the Calvinist god is a god that enables/allows people to choose false gods but doesn’t enable/allow them to choose Him, the one true God. Then he makes the first commandment “no other gods before me?” I’m sorry but the Calvinistic god which they see as ultimately sovereign is a god of deception, not the one true Just God of the Bible. The God of the Bible is Sovereign because He achieves His ultimate purpose whilst allowing All of us to either choose Him or not. This makes Him more Sovereign not less. “For the Grace of God that offers Salvation to all people”. “For He is willing that none shall perish but all shall have eternal life.””If you believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord, and that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved.””For I am not ashamed of the Gospel for it is the power of God to salvation to everyone who believes.”””In Him you also when you heard the word of truth and the gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. “””For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life”. Why is it that Calvinism has to insert “God allowed you to” before the word “Believe” in the Bible, especially when it is concerning Salvation? And why is it Calvinism has to re-define almost every instance of the words “all” “whoever”, “whosoever”and “world” to assume an “elect”?
I’d rather not subscribe to a man made doctrine that limits Gods Sovereignty, limits Christ’s atonement, and worse, changes Gods very character.
Probably the best theologian of the past 100 years Reginald Garrigou Lagrange said he had to write a book on predestination because the topic was so difficult. Glad you guys have figured it all out in 10 minutes
In Jeremiah 7 God says, "People built places to sacrifice their children (in fire) to foreign gods, and He (God) says, "I did NOT COMMAND this, nor did it enter my mind." So, who do we believe, Jeff Durbin, RC Sproul, James White, John Piper or God Almighty and His Holy Word, the Bible? So, while God does predestine some things, this verse clearly says NOT everything. It's like a university predestining a football team (they WILL have a team next season) but giving free will to players themselves to decide whether or not to come out for that team. God, in His Sovereignty, has the POWER to give mankind a certain degree of free will to choose or reject Him and His Christ. This free will, given to man by God, started in the garden when God said to Adam and Eve, "You can eat from any tree in the garden except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." God did NOT say, "You MUST eat from all of the trees except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil," rather He gave them a choice to eat from whatever trees they chose except that one specific tree. And by the way, they CHOSE to disobey and eat from the very tree God said don't eat of it.
These are just a few of the MANY verses that speak of people making a choice; where Calvinism says, there is "No choosing" God decides. Isaiah 56:4 says, "For this is what the Lord says: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who CHOOSE what pleases me..." Isaiah 65:12 says, "...I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and CHOSE what displeases me.” Isaiah 7:15 says, "...He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and CHOOSE the right..." Proverbs 3:31 says, "... Envy thou not the oppressor, and CHOOSE none of his ways." 1 Chronicles 21:11 says, "So Gad went to David and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Take your CHOICE: three years of famine, three months of being swept away before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the Lord..."
@@Mike-qt7jp yes, God did not command it as a part of the Mosaic Law, that is the context in which God is making this statement.
“Before they did good or evil, God predestined them” and “they are condemned for their own evil. God is just.” In other words, God created no man with the possibility to be saved by his own goodness (because we are born into sin), and then ‘justly’ condemns some of them for that which they can’t help but do by nature, without any possibility of redemption, and that before they even do one evil deed. This is what I heard you all say. Am I wrong?
@Paul Heberling Romans 9 is about individual election.
@@reformedchristian7751 I don't agree to your statement that says "Romans 9 is about individual election". Please read Romans 9 in its context before you jump to your illogical conclusion.
@@reformedchristian7751 I would encourage to see what Frank Turek advises on romans 9. Follows the view that it’s about the nation of Israel. Not individuals
No. God DID create a man with the possibility to be righteous on his own. The first was Adam... he failed... the second was Christ and he succeeded. The rest of us are in the middle faced with the brutal reality of having fallen by predestiantion under the heritage of one of the two. And that is just.
Completely out of context. You are applying a passage that doesn't refer to individual salvation to the topic of individual salvation.
As much as we try, we cannot divorce predestination from scripture. It's there. It can't be ignored. I never heard about such things until I read it for myself and the question kept coming up: "Does it really mean what it (the scripture) implies?" Yes it does. I think where people stumble and refuse to believe is because anything that is hard to understand or seemingly unfair, we throw it out or we dismiss it. We are fallible humans created by an infallible God. We don't know everything. If we did, we would be God and we're not. This is where faith comes into play. You read the Word and believe it 100% even if you don't understand why or how. It's also about being comfortable being a humble human being knowing that we don't know everything and that's ok. Our minds cannot comprehend all of God's way. Only a tiny sliver and only a tiny sliver when God presents it to us in HIS timing.
I'm perfectly fine with God choosing me. It's humbling. And by no means do I feel that I no longer have a responsibility to go out and preach the gospel. On the contrary, I feel MORE responsible because in my human thinking, if an all powerful awesome God called me, I better do the best I can with my time and gift He's given me.
How can love but force people to believe and others not to believe? That is a false view of God. God did not predestine certain to be saved but he predestined those who will be saved will be blessed and have salvation. Big difference. One is force the other is reward because of faith. All Glory to God. God bless. Repent and trust in Jesus
God knows the future (Foreknowledge), *and who's gonna "surrender" to His Will* (Predestined them BASED ON His Foreknowledge), and Chooses them (the Elect) to Accomplish HIS PURPOSES... {which most believers don't know what that is or ignore it}
So there is no free will, and therefore Yahweh is a liar.
2 questions:
1. Did God create, then “look through the corridors of time” (to borrow a popular phrase) to gain His foreknowledge?
2. If God knows what I will do tomorrow, can I do anything other than what He already knows? (I’m assuming you believe he has perfect foreknowledge)
@@anomilumiimulimona2924 that was dumb.
He knows what your "Free Will" choices will be before you're created.. (he still LET'S you carry them out) so HE bases His Giftings & Purposes off That. (Foreknowledge)
Except Romans 3:10-17 shows that NO ONE seeks for God in an unregenerated state.
@@douglasmcnay644 You have to understand the Bible first before you misquote it..!
Paul's simply using those quotes from Eccl&Psalms to prove to the Jews That NO ONE is Righteous under the Law, and cannot be JUSTIFIED by it.
He simply misses the point:
If God predestines people to go to hell BEFORE these people are even born they do NOT DESERVE hell the moment God makes his choice to throw them into hell. This is not matching with a God who IS love and does not want anyone to perish. It boils down to the question of Gods character. Of course God is sovereign to do whatever he wants to do. That is not the point. God is not restricted by ANYTHING outside of him. But he can not act against his own heart and character. God IS Love and he IS Holy without any conflict in himself. So Holiness is not an excuse for not expressing love and love is not an excuse for not being holy. Therefor predestination must meet BOTH.
God DOES NOT "throw people into hell." He gives people Grace whom every single one of them were going there anyways....
@@discjockeydoll9643 Still you didn´t get the argument. The question is to you as a Calvinist: When does God elect people for salvation and what is with these people he does not elect? Calvinism teaches that Gods election takes place before people are existing and that a human being can do nothing to be elected. So therefore logically some are predestined to hell by not being chosen for salvation before they even exist. That is the problem of Calvinism.
Well and who then is casting people to hell when we read this: "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." ? (Rev. 20,15 KJV)
@@opfipip3711 The book of Romans addresses your argument. Romans 9:16: " It does not, therefore, depend on HUMAN DESIRE OR EFFORT, but on GOD'S MERCY." Romans 9:18: "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." And ESPECIALLY Romans 9:19 "One of you will say to me then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist HIS WILL?" BUT who are you , a human being to talk back to God?" Romans 8:29: " For those God FOREKNEW (meaning knew before) he also PREDESTINED to be conformed to the image of his Son...." Ephesians 1:5: "In love he PREDESTINED us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with HIS PLEASURE AND WILL." Other scriptures that pertain to the elect include 2 Timothy 1:9, John 6:37, John 17:2-6, Jeremiah 1:5, Galatians 1:15, Roman's 9:10-16, John 6:44, Acts 5:31, Acts 11:18, Roman's 12:3.... The word said it itself brother. Who are you a human being to talk back to God? It also says if Abraham were able to obtain his righteousness by works of the law, he would have a reason to boast in himself. If you think you play a part in even the SMALLEST FRACTION of your salvation, you in fact have a reason to boast in yourself, AND NOT in God. The word is very clear about this brother. I'm praying the holy spirit of the GOD OF THE GOSPEL opens your eyes to his true character. God bless you.
@@discjockeydoll9643 Look at the context. It is not about predestination of individuals for salvation. It is about the fact that salvation is coming to the gentiles. But Israel will be saved too at the end.
@@discjockeydoll9643 your dear sweet mother most likely is not among the elect, so she was destined for damnation in hell before she was even born, and you better be okay with that or you're a filthy hypocrite, argue my logic
Thank you guys for this vid, needs to be much longer! Pastor John Macarthur, Steve Lawson have very good sermons teaching on predestination, too. Also, Willmington's Guide to the Bible has an entire study guide that is full of sound scripture teaching.
Romans 9-11 has a very happy ending:
"God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all. … From Him, and through Him and to Him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a)
Let me remind you, in romans Chapter 9 he is talking about Jews...Sons of Promise. Don't get mix up with us
gentiles. Totally different point of view. We are under Grace and Free will. That's why people make mistake when reading the bible mixing Jews(Sons of promisse) with gentiles(Grance and free will).
Keep it up, Apologia. I had an exchange with Kwaku over the issue of predestination; he eventually just seemed to admit that he didn’t like it and didn’t know what else to tell me. He couldn’t refute me over the predestination of all things but resorted to the basic misrepresentations he constantly portrays. His arrogance is saddening as is his smarminess. I wish he were honest but anyone who rejects the true God for a false religion when shown the truth must either ignore it or distort the argument because he doesn’t and can’t deal with what the Bible says and only the unregenerate would continue in such lies as he does about the doctrines of grace. God bless you guys and your ministry. Will be praying for you and for Kwaku as well.
Coinkydink Kid
Are you claiming that God ordained all things. Is that so?
Evan U yes...
Coinkydink Kid
Ps 81: 11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.
12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.
What do you make of this?
Evan U God has a revealed will for Israel but He has His decree and He will work His decree together for good and to glorify Himself. Unless you want to argue that He can fail and be frustrated
Coinkydink Kid
I would argue for the bible being true and God being sincere.....
Deu 5: 29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Jer 2: 9 Wherefore I will yet plead with you, saith the LORD, and with your children's children will I plead.
Jer 26: 3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings
Eze 18: 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Mat 23: 37 ¶ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Luk 19: 41 ¶ And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
Is Jesus weeping for the glory He didn’t receive from them??? No, He has a heart for all people.
Rom 11: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
1Tim 2: 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
God does show frustration and empathy. He desires all to be saved and weeps when they turn from Him.
This doesn’t mean He failed. Whosoever will come will receive His pardon. That’s how He designed it. His plan will not fail.
God bless
So when the Mormon says that God is wrong for sending certain people to hell then is it possible for that Mormon when he gets to be a god himself one day will create a world to his own liking? Especially is the God of the bible was once a man and he was able to get to exalted status like the god before him. Why do Mormons care what this certain god does with his creation when they can just come up with their own. I hope that made sense because even typing it I was confusing myself.
it does make sense. as a christian, i wonder the same thing. if there are any LDS member who’d like to answer this, PLEASE be our guest!! 😇
We want to determine what we want but will not let God do the same.
amen believe God will save more than people than we think
I think if Jeff is gonna say that the majority will receive God's grace he ought to back it up with scripture. The Bible says many are called, few are chosen. It also says that few find life, many find destruction. So I am not sure where Jeff gets this belief from. Would love to hear him expand upon this belief of his.
I agree, so much for Jeff's personal beliefs
John 3:16
@Damien Tahbaz
He gets it from his (wrong) postmil postition where they believe that all will be getting better (wasn't since the apostles) and eventually there will be overwhelming Christian majority ruling over the world and Christ will come then... It amazes me, how many greatly educated amazing brothers in Christ believe this eschatology. Maybe that education and tradition is the problem. Anyway, that's where he is getting it from. They make very complicated connections in the Scriptures to get to that idea.
I'm with you there, DAMIEN!
That sounds like "Quasi-Universalism" to me! Unfortunately, I'm back with Pastors MacArthur, Sproul, & Steven Lawson.
How many people who watched this feel like Jeff didn't actually refute even one point successfully?
Bryce Mannn
My Brother Jeff is wrong when it comes to Calvinism. God bless you.
Man is crowned with glory and honor. Romans 2:7 God gives eternal life to whom seek glory
Mike Winger's sermon on Romans 9 is an amazing non-Calvinist explanation of that famous Calvinist proof text.
I am new to this channel and have spent the last few days listening to several podcasts. Last night I listened to one in which, when speaking about the sovereignty of God and salvation, you said: “I believe it’s POSSIBLE for God to do anything He wants and... and save the world.” You went on to point out that God said He was going to do it, "which makes a fire-breathing post-millennialist." That really struck me, especially in light of what I thought your message was in other podcasts.
Today I was listing to the last of the 20 files I downloaded, sort of randomly, and heard you say: “The judgment coming of Christ happened exactly as the Lord Jesus said. So when John says, in the New Testament, in the book of Revelation, he’s coming soon, he’s coming quickly, brothers and sisters he MEANT it. And the glory that we have ahead of us , as Christians, is 1 Cor 15. He’s reigning now; he’s putting all his enemies under his feet; last enemy to be [defeated] is death. And that’s when Jesus returns - not to bring the kingdom. 1 Co 15 says, not to bring the kingdom but to deliver the kingdom over to the Father, after all things have been put into subjection to Jesus. Brothers and sisters, our future is glorious, and I want to say this: we have the great hope of Christ coming and resurrection, but when that comes, guess what? Guess what, y’all? It’s going to be in victory! In TOTAL victory! With the world, nations, tribes, tongues, languages, EVERYBODY converted to Jesus, through His glorious gospel. It’s my belief, as a Calvinist, in the absolute sovereignty of God, that God has the POWER to save the world and I believe that he’s given us, too, the PROMISE that he’s gonna to do it.“
That really blew my mind!! In a GOOD way! :)
When I got home I tried to the find the video for the above on UA-cam, but was unable to locate it. I found this one, instead, in which you say: "“I actually, personally, believe that the vast majority of humanity will receive God’s grace at the end of time. That’s my personal position on that. That’s not universalism. I’m saying, in terms of the future, I believe the kingdom of God will have victory over the world and I think, personally, that the largest mass of humanity will be actually given grace….” To which I say AMEN! [Though I wish you would go further.... all the way, if you will. :) ]
While you step away from "universalism" in this quote (and I had not seen it in any of the other messages I heard, prior to last night), I, too, am wondering if you will elaborate and why you would acknowledge that scripture does declare Jesus the Savior of "the world," but believe that such is only a "possibility," (though it seems you are saying it is more than that in the second quote above). Have your views changed? Will you elaborate? If it is, indeed, "a matter of mercy," did not Paul say: "God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon ALL." (Rom 11:32)?
As to the subject of Esau and Jacob, have you considered the possibility that Esau and Jacob, like so many other figures in scripture, serve as "types" and that is the reason why "It is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated"? Is it possible that "the vessel of wrath, fitted to destruction" is the first/natural/carnal man and "the vessel of mercy" is the second/spiritual man; that these things (wheat/tares, sheep/goats) are meant to show a division between the old/outward man and the new/inward man and not a division between one man and the next (though we may certainly manifest as either depending on whether we walk in the flesh or in the spirit)?
Throughout the OT we see the same pattern repeated over and over in various ways, going all the way back to Adam (the first/natural man), who was 'a figure of him who was to come" (the Second/Spiritual/Last man, the Son of God). it is always the older who serves the young or the second/later born who gets the the blessing of the first born. Why?
I believe in the sovereignty of God, as well; and I believe Jesus is who the scriptures declare him to be, the Saviour of the world. Even if you only see the possibility, I am really enjoying all of the podcasts I have listened to so far and am thinking about becoming a financial supporter, despite our differences, due to your outreach to Mormons. (I am ex-Mormon.)
universalism is absolutely unbiblical, I can see how people end up there (as I did for a while) but the fact is that many places talk about a place of punishment for unrepentant people. There is a reason the historical church, even back to the earliest times didn't believe it. Why even spread the gospel at all if there is universalism? jesus and the early church had an urgency about spreading their message.
@@Xenotypic Christian Universalism doesn't deny punishment. It only denies eternal conscious torment which serves no redemptive purpose at all, but is only retributive in the worst possible way. As to spreading the gospel, are you suggesting that their urgency to spread the gospel (do you have an example of that?) is to make sure that as many as possible get saved before they die and go to hell? I don't think "salvation" is the goal, for that was taken care of at the cross. It is "the gospel of [our] salvation that we being asked to "believe." Because the result of "believing" it is what?
@@Xenotypic What made you change your mind?
@@Chrissiela I know it doesn't deny punishment entirely, just to put that out there. long story short, the evidence appears to be for annihilationism.
after going through all the verses about hell, seeing how they were said and in what context, the evidence seemed to me to be in the annihilationism camp. you get your just deserts of punishment and then are destroyed at the second death. the verses which say Christ came to save "all" i interpret to mean that his blood is sufficient for all, but not all will come, as much as God may want that. Every knee bowing and tongue confessing could easily be people who have to admit to something when considering it's right in front of their face/is already too late for them. it all works out, you can be in hell for an "aeon", get rightly punished, then after your perfect judgement your existence will be over at the second death. to me, it was a pretty satisfying conclusion since it appears to fit so nicely.
tellling the gospel is at the very least *less urgent* under universalism. most of the historical church, even in the 1st couple centuries didn't have this understanding (Origen being a poooossible exception)
@@Xenotypic I don’t think the gospel is about people getting “their just deserts.” Just the opposite, in fact. It’s all about grace, about how where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more. The “justice” of God is all about making things right. It’s about righteousness, particularly the righteousness of Jesus Christ, whose body we are. And while most believe that only believers are a part of the body of Christ, I believe the Bible says otherwise. I believe it says that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. He did that by “gathering together in one all things in Christ.” That includes all men, both good and bad, just as we see in the parable of the wedding feist. Jesus said he came to not to judge the world but to save the world. And he did. All of it. Some (not all), especially those in the Universalist camp, believe that means that there is no judgment. Jesus came only to save. Period. But that is not what he was saying. He talks about judgment, too. And judgement comes AFTER salvation. This is put into our remembrance in Jude 1:5. “I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.” Now, one could certainly argue that this is one way to recognize that Jesus actually IS “the Saviour of ALL MEN,” and he actually ACCOMPLISHED that, even if NOT “all men” survive judgment. But I do not think that is the case either. I think what is getting “separated” (or divided) in “the judgment” (the sheep from the goats, the tares from the wheat) is not one person from another the old man and the new man, that which is born of the flesh from that which is born of the spirit. Now, we can certainly be recognized, individually, as a tare or a goat, etc, as it relates to our “walk” (whether we are walking in the spirit, as sons of God, or walking the flesh, having the devil as our father), but it is “the spirit” that is “saved in the day of the Lord,” for “God is the father of spirts.” God is not trying to save the old man. That man is to be reckoned dead already. So while annihilation does sound much more humane than eternal conscious torment, it’s not what I believe the scriptures teach. I believe that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of the Father, because they mean it. For no man can even make such a confession except “by the Holy Spirit.” Scripture even tells us that “if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful, for he cannot deny himself.” (2Ti 2:23) He cannot (and will not) deny his own body, his own flesh and blood, so to speak… which is “the church,” even His “Bride.” The difference between those who believe and those who do not is "salvation" but “eternal life.” We treat “eternal life” as if it is a synonym for “immortality,” and has nothing to do with those is this world, only the world to come, as it relates to those who have been saved. But that is not how the scriptures define “eternal life,” which is that life that is “in the Son.” And who are “the sons of God”? Jesus said: “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” Eternal life is “to know God and Jesus Christ” now, to be “as He is in this world.” That is the benefit of believing the gospel. It might be easy to question or downplay the significance of that, thinking “is that all?” But I think that can only be said by someone who hasn’t really yet met “the Son of God” or really yet understood who THEY ARE “in Christ.” (Origen is far from being the only early church father who believe in the apokatastases. You might want to do a little bit more research on that, if that is what you think. I can offer some resources, if you like.)
So much for John 3:16 .... & what about those who simply don't know any better when they reject God? No purpose in addressing Universal salvation?? 🕊🏝☀🌱
John 3:16 says the son was sent so that that the believing one would be saved, not the world. Anyone who dies in their sins will receive their wage.
As a believer who follows more the doctrine of Arminianism, I believe the Bible teaches suffering is a necessary for as many as possible of their own free will to embrace the doctrine of forgiveness made available only by Christ’s sacrifice.
Jeff's interpretation of sovereignty encompasses the control of all things, a proposition for which he has not presented substantiating evidence. The conflation of individual salvation with the communal calling of Israel exemplifies a classic instance of eisegesis.
Predestination is after you believe . To glorification.
It's Dash from the Incredibles!
I'm never going to unsee this now
I love Jeff Durbin and his ministry. I have a lot of time for you folks. Not a Calvinist though! I guess we'll meet in the next life and laugh about this!
If god predestined it.
Great video and biblical exposition, why so many take issue with Gods sovereignty is beyond me. Big God little man, most of Christianity in the west preach and believe the opposite Big human little genie god.
Jeff,....you're a 'Third degree Black Belt in logic" and study. I like watching someone with; brains, humility, and honor.
I think the biggest thing between predestination and full freewill is that Christ is the same no matter what one believes. Why argue the small things when neither of them truly matters? Neither of them sends one to hell or heaven even more if we truly believe we go to heaven. We should stop arguing who is wrong and who is right and start loving one another as Christ loved us. We are the church and we should embrace each other as such.
8:30 I think the mistake people make is thinking this is being as Job puts it "a respecter of God's person" acting as though God could be unrighteous and still be entitled to be called rightous. That instead of being good, all good and nothing other than good that God is "beyond good and evil" under no standards of rightousness imposed on him by himself. Such as would reply to Abraham when he said "shall not the judge of all the Earth do right?" With "he has every right to be as unrighteous as he pleases, who are you to hold him to obligation?"
The viciousness in this comment section is shameful. I didn't come from a calvinist church, but it was always taught to us that God is all knowing. Why would that not mean predestination. If he is all knowing and all powerful then how can you make decisions he cannot know or empowet. At any rate anyone in the comments being vicious take a look in the mirror and ask yourself why
Jesus said if they hated him then they will hate you. If a disciple of Jesus is not being hated for what they are saying then they are not telling the truth.
@@aletheia8054 that pertains to unbelievers not believers necessarily
@@repentorperish1386 Not true believers. The elect hear the truth and like it.
@@aletheia8054 thats literally what I said...
@@repentorperish1386 Agape Kai phileo
Matthew 7:13-14 kind of refutes the idea that most of humanity will be saved. Just wanted to point that out, brother.
I see what you mean but Jeff also specifically said at the end of times he thinks the majority of earth will know god. Matthew 7 is referring to the entirety of human history, in which case the many will indeed take the wide and easy path. Even if the entire world comes to Jesus on the last day, percentage wises all of the people that came before us will still overwhelmingly not be saved sadly. I think Jeff takes the stance that he does from the verse that says all of Christ's enemies here on earth must be placed under his feet before his return.
Romans 9 is NOT about electing those to heaven or hell. It is about Israel being chosen as the line of the messiah to spread the gospel. Read chapter 10 and it clarifies any of Paul's long run-on sentences that cause confusion :) God bless you
Yes thank you.
I agree we deserve Hell. That is Biblical. We are grateful for God's mercy and grace. He is good.
I have never understood Calvinists' position. They teach total depravity, that mankind cannot choose God, and it is He who does the choosing. But that means for the "non-elect," the ones who have no hope of escaping the fire, they were never in control of their own actions, because their natural state was to defy God, with no hope of ever repenting. How can people have 0% of the control over their lives and yet bear 100% of the blame for their sin? It doesn't make any sense at all.
You also have to consider the idea that God is creating billions of people with zero hope of ever being rescued from a terrible fate that He, Himself, designed for them. Instead of a marvelous creation of a sentient being made in the image of God, those created, yet damned, people are helpless victims of an insane, monstrous god worse than any Moloch or Baal. A god who creates people for eternal damnation with no hope of salvation is not a god of love or grace; he's a god of sheer, malevolent hatred.
Even worse, Calvinists can't escape this logic: if man is created without free will (which must be true in this theology, if he cannot choose God and can choose only wickedness), and lives under the total and complete sovereignty of God, then the god of Calvinism is the being responsible for 100% of the sins of the world. Calvinism turns humans into victims, and their god into the sole sinner.
Calvinism is blasphemy, a wicked doctrine that denies the very nature of God. I agree with Jeff Durbin on nearly everything else, but he is dead wrong on this issue.
Unless we believe in the Son, first, we will never see God. Each man can either believe, or not believe, the Gospel:
*_Scripture:_* (John 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, ... *_no man cometh unto the Father, but by me._*
*_Calvinism:_* (John 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, ... no man cometh unto the -Father- Son, but by -me- the Father.
Can someone tell me then WHY many are called FEW are chosen??? How then will MOST of us be saved by grace???
Many people hear the call of God which comes through His revelation of Himself through two things the creation and the conscience within us. But only the "few" will respond because they are the ones who are truly hearing.
Really like Pastor Jeff’s teaching, seems biblical, but Rev. 20 “Satan’s army as the sands of they sea”, speaks to the greater number going into death. There being vastly more headed for destruction than there are saints entering the kingdom during Christ’s reign is completely biblical.
13:40
Anyone who argues reformed theology has to misrepresent it. I've never heard an argument that accurately represents it. Dr. Michael brown probably is the closest to wanting to accurately represent it.
Moreover dr brown and dr white are great friends and alot of the comments are vicious in this comment section. No wonder so many unbelievers pount at christians and say if you act like that i don't want your God. Its a shame really. Not you ofcourse. I just wanted to point out the viciousness in the comment section
@@repentorperish1386 good points my friend.
Calvinism is biblical truth. That's why it's so offensive to those that want man and his "free will" on the throne rather than God. They want a weak God that seeks to "woo" them rather than a God who has mercy on whom He will and hardens whom He will.
JOHN CALVIN WHO WAS A COLD BLOODED MURDERER USED TO TORTURE AND BURN PEOPLE ALIVE SAVAGELY FOR NOT AGREEING WITH HIS THEOLOGY HTTP://WWW.REENACTINGTHEWAY.COM/BLOG/JOHN-CALVIN-HAD-PEOPLE-KILLED-AND-BAD-BIBLE-INTERPRETATION-JUSTIFIED-IT. MR. CALVIN DOES INDEED LEAVE CALVINISTS WITH A REAL BAD REPUTATION.
God bless you.
Chandler Keaton
You must hate the passages where God pleads for people to turn so that He can have mercy on them.
If everything happens according to God's will as per Calvinism, then a lot of really evil things happen, that God has called sin. This is ridiculous. God tells Adam and Eve, don't eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and yet He has ordained that they will. Calvinism seems to be making God a liar, because He is telling them to not do something that He knows full well (according to Calvinism) that they have no choice but to do. We can go on and on; if God causes everything that happens, He is causing murder, rape, incest, drug use, drunkenness, lying stealing, sexual immorality, false religions, Satan worship, pedophilia, etc. The God of the Bible is love and calls us NOT to do all these things. Why would He turn around and make us do the very same things He tells us not to do? The Calvinist seems to sink on their own idea of the sovereignty of God. They don't seem to be able to acknowledge that God IN HIS SOVEREIGNTY can choose to give us some degree of free will. That's why there are so many scriptures saying "Whosoever will, may..." Scripture clearly gives us a choice. Follow Christ or not. Repent or not. Obey scripture or not. I believe, based on scripture, that God has given us choices with eternal repercussions, Heaven or Hell. That's why Joshua said choose you this day whom you will serve. I can by God's grace and the help of the Holy Spirit say, "As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord." By the way, yes, it is true; we can't come to Christ unless the Father draws us, but that says "draws us" not makes us a believer. God opens us up to the Good news and then we either say yes or no.
Is it incorrect to say that _knowing_ the end from the beginning is different than _dictating_ the beginning, the end, and every little thing that happens in between? How is it possible to have free-will if God _determines_ everything? (Am I using the words wrong?) Does God give this mercy and grace arbitrarily? _Ugh! Such a difficult and confusing topic!_
God revealed to me that "All Knowing" means that he knows the beginning and end of every possible outcome of your life and all of existence He is eternal and outside of time we are inside therefore linear so it's impossible to grasp God's perspective from eternity but we can understand it using his wisdom
We do have free will, but our will is in bondage to our nature. A lion has free will. I can offer him a salad; he is free to choose to eat the salad, but a lion will never choose to eat a salad because it goes against his nature. A lion's nature di tates him to eat meat.
@@johannastromberg514 Exactly... You are not a slave to your nature unless you choose to be. God can free you from the bondage of your nature if you freely chose him. A Lion can never deny it's nature because it has no free will and doesn't posses the knowledge of good and evil.
@@johannastromberg514 I don't agree to your notion that our will is in bondage to our nature. You gave a poor example by comparing animal's instinct with that of man's freewill. Does the lion has free will as suggested by you? certainly not,, as all animals are driven by their own instinct and that is why the lion won't be held culpable in whatever it does. Whereas man has a freewill and thus are held culpable by their actions.
Please explain to me how adam/eve with their sinless nature and yet choose to do evil. Thus as you claimed man acted according to their nature is evidently flawed as adam/eve didn't act according to their nature but they choose freely to sin out of their human pride.
Only God has a free will, He alone is perfect. No sinner has ever head a free will. You don't believe me, then why don't you use your free will and sin no more sense you claim you have a free will.
"Calvinists are just insecure janitors" was his best argument honestly
lol
Exodus 22.22: Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.
Exodus 22.23: If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry;
Exodus 22.24: And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.
Deuteronomy 24.14: Thou shalt not oppress an hired servant that is poor and needy, whether he be of thy brethren, or of thy strangers that are in thy land within thy gates:
Proverbs 14.3: He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.
Proverbs 17.5: Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker: And he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished.
Proverbs 22.16: He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, And he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.
Proverbs 28.3: A poor man that oppresseth the poor is like a sweeping rain which leaveth no food.
Matthew 5.3: Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5.4: Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Matthew 5.5: Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
That's naughty. I used to be a janitor and I am insecure but I will stick with what the Bible says. It's all of God's grace, not anything of ourselves.
PLEASE READ THIS TO THE END MY FRIEND 🙏❤✝️😎🥰
God's CHOSEN ELECT were Chosen by God and GIVEN JESUS, BEFORE the
W🌎RLD BEGAN, according to the Scriptures. We need to die of our flesh daily, Matthew 16:24 So are we the ones who chose God? John 6:44 No, cause if a sinner is LOST IN SIN. How can ANYONE make a free will choice TO SAVE THEMSELVES ⁉️👎
THEY CAN'T AS FREE WILL CHOICE IS NOWHERE FOUND IN THE BIBLE.
In FACT Jesus spoke against it in 2 Peter 2:9 10 (the LOST is Self-willed) and in Titus 1:7-8 (the SAVED is NOT 🚫 Self-willed)
Also Jesus said in Matthew 7 21 23
Just cuz you say Lord Lord, DOES NOT 🚫 get you into the kingdom of heaven, BUT THOSE THAT DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. (Spiritual Obedience)
v. 22 And many will say unto me on that day (THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT Rev. 20:11-15), Lord Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name cast out devils 👿, AND DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS? (Works in the flesh) Romans 8 8
v. 23 And I (Jesus) Will profess unto them, depart from me, you that work iniquity, I NEVER EVER KNEW YOU.
I BELIEVE that Free Will choice is 100% HERESY, or False Teaching ACCORDING to the SCRIPTURES as a Real Christian is to do the WILL of GOD ALMIGHTY which is called OBEDIENCE.
Verses of B4 the W🌎rld Even Begin.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on HIS right hand (HIS SHEEP), Come, ye Blessed of MY FATHER, INHERIT THE KINGDOM PREPARED FOR YOU FROM THE FOUNDATION of the
W🌎RLD.
(Goats are on the left)
John 17:5-6 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE W🌎RLD WAS.
6 I have manifested (REVEALED) THY NAME UNTO THE MEN which God gave Jesus.
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me,,, which thou hast given me: FOR THOU LOVEDST ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD.
Acts 3:21 of all things, WHICH GOD HAS SPOKEN BY THE MOUTH OF ALL HIS HOLY PROPHETS SINCE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN.
What does PRE-DESTINATED mean?
Pre means before the WORLD 🌎 began,
Destination means where you end up after time is over.
Ephesians 1:4-5 According as GOD HAS CHOSEN US IN JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD, that we should be holy and without blame before JESUS in GOD:
5 HAVING PRE-DESTINATED US UNTO THE ADOPTION OF CHILDREN BY JESUS CHRIST TO HIMSELF, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURES OF HIS WILL.
Ephesians 1:11
In whom also we have OBTAINED AN INHERITANCE, BEING PRE-DESTINATED according to the purpose of HIM WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNCIL OF HIS OWN WILL.
1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, WHICH GOD ORDAINED BEFORE THE W🌎RLD UNTO OUR GLORY
2 Thessalonians 2:13 ,,,, BECAUSE GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION of the SPIRIT and BELIEF of the TRUTH
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath SAVED US, AND CALLED US WITH AN HOLY CALLING, Not according to our works, (or FREE WILL CHOICE in the flesh)
BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE, WHICH WAS GIVEN US IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE
W🌎RLD BEGAN.
Titus 1:2 In HOPE of ETERNAL LIFE, which GOD, that cannot lie, PROMISED BEFORE THE
W🌎RLD BEGAN.
1st Peter 1:20 Who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD, but was MANIFEST (OR REVEALED) IN THESE LAST TIMES FOR YOU.
The Cross, Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the EARTH 🌎 shall WORSHIP HIM, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB SLAIN (OR CRUCIFIED) FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD.
The Lost, Revelation 17:8 ,,,and they that dwell on the EARTH 🌎 shall wonder, WHOSE NAMES WERE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD,,,,
Who will never chosen to be saved.
God is using the lost to bring this Lost W🌎RLD to an end, and to Earn Crowns to Glorify God our Heavenly WITH THE TRAILS WE GO THROUGH.
John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, TO THEM GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME SONS OF GOD, even to them that believe in HIS name:
13 Which were born, NOT 🚫 of blood, nor of the WILL OF THE FLESH, nor of the WILL OF MAN, but of GOD'S WILL.
John 8:36 IF,, the Son therefore shall MAKE YOU FREE, ye shall be free indeed.
John 8:43 Why don't you understand my speech? even because ye CANNOT HEAR MY WORD.
John 8:47 He that is of God hears God's words: ye therefore HEAR THEM NOT, BECAUSE YE ARE NOT OF GOD.
John 10:3-4 To him the porter (door keeper) opened; and THE SHEEP HEARS HIS VOICE: AND HE CALLETH HIS OWN SHEEP BY NAME, AND LEADETH THEM OUT.
4 And when he putteth forth HIS OWN SHEEP, he goes before them, and THE SHEEP FOLLOW HIM: FOR THEY KNOW HIS VOICE.
John 10:26-27 But ye believe not, because YE ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP, as I said unto you.
27 MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I KNOW THEM, AND THEY FOLLOW ME:
John 13:18 I SPEAK NOT OF YOU ALL: I KNOW WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN,,, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
Speaking of Judas Iscariot.
John 14:17 Even the SPIRIT of TRUTH; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: BUT YE KNOW HIM; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 15:4-5 Abide in me, and I in you. AS THE BRANCH CANNOT BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF, EXCEPT IT ABIDE IN THE VINE; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same brings forth MUCH fruit: FOR WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING.
John 15:16 YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU,,
15:19
19 If ye were of the world, the W🌎RLD would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, BUT I (Jesus) HAVE CHOSEN YOU OUT OF THE
W🌎RLD, therefore the world hates you.
John 17:2,,,THAT HE (Jesus) SHOULD GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO AS MANY AS THOU (God) HAS GIVEN HIM.
JOHN 17:6 I HAVE MANIFESTED OR REVEALED MY NAME UNTO THE MAN WHICH GOD GAVE TO ME OUT OF THE W🌎RLD.
John 17:9 I PRAY 🙏 not for the W🌎RLD but for them which God has given me,
John 17:11 ,,keep through the own name (Jesus) Those whom thou has given me that they may be one as we are.
John 18:37 EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HERE'S MY VOICE.
Revelation 3:20 I stand at the door (OF YOUR ❤) and knock, IF ANYONE HEARS MY (SPIRITUAL) VOICE, they will open the door,, ETC
Must I go on.
@@aut0mat1c11PLEASE READ THIS TO THE END MY FRIEND 🙏❤✝️😎🥰
God's CHOSEN ELECT were Chosen by God and GIVEN JESUS, BEFORE the
W🌎RLD BEGAN, according to the Scriptures. We need to die of our flesh daily, Matthew 16:24 So are we the ones who chose God? John 6:44 No, cause if a sinner is LOST IN SIN. How can ANYONE make a free will choice TO SAVE THEMSELVES ⁉️👎
THEY CAN'T AS FREE WILL CHOICE IS NOWHERE FOUND IN THE BIBLE.
In FACT Jesus spoke against it in 2 Peter 2:9 10 (the LOST is Self-willed) and in Titus 1:7-8 (the SAVED is NOT 🚫 Self-willed)
Also Jesus said in Matthew 7 21 23
Just cuz you say Lord Lord, DOES NOT 🚫 get you into the kingdom of heaven, BUT THOSE THAT DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. (Spiritual Obedience)
v. 22 And many will say unto me on that day (THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT Rev. 20:11-15), Lord Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name cast out devils 👿, AND DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS? (Works in the flesh) Romans 8 8
v. 23 And I (Jesus) Will profess unto them, depart from me, you that work iniquity, I NEVER EVER KNEW YOU.
I BELIEVE that Free Will choice is 100% HERESY, or False Teaching ACCORDING to the SCRIPTURES as a Real Christian is to do the WILL of GOD ALMIGHTY which is called OBEDIENCE.
Verses of B4 the W🌎rld Even Begin.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on HIS right hand (HIS SHEEP), Come, ye Blessed of MY FATHER, INHERIT THE KINGDOM PREPARED FOR YOU FROM THE FOUNDATION of the
W🌎RLD.
(Goats are on the left)
John 17:5-6 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE W🌎RLD WAS.
6 I have manifested (REVEALED) THY NAME UNTO THE MEN which God gave Jesus.
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me,,, which thou hast given me: FOR THOU LOVEDST ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD.
Acts 3:21 of all things, WHICH GOD HAS SPOKEN BY THE MOUTH OF ALL HIS HOLY PROPHETS SINCE THE W🌎RLD BEGAN.
What does PRE-DESTINATED mean?
Pre means before the WORLD 🌎 began,
Destination means where you end up after time is over.
Ephesians 1:4-5 According as GOD HAS CHOSEN US IN JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD, that we should be holy and without blame before JESUS in GOD:
5 HAVING PRE-DESTINATED US UNTO THE ADOPTION OF CHILDREN BY JESUS CHRIST TO HIMSELF, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURES OF HIS WILL.
Ephesians 1:11
In whom also we have OBTAINED AN INHERITANCE, BEING PRE-DESTINATED according to the purpose of HIM WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNCIL OF HIS OWN WILL.
1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, WHICH GOD ORDAINED BEFORE THE W🌎RLD UNTO OUR GLORY
2 Thessalonians 2:13 ,,,, BECAUSE GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION of the SPIRIT and BELIEF of the TRUTH
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath SAVED US, AND CALLED US WITH AN HOLY CALLING, Not according to our works, (or FREE WILL CHOICE in the flesh)
BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE, WHICH WAS GIVEN US IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE
W🌎RLD BEGAN.
Titus 1:2 In HOPE of ETERNAL LIFE, which GOD, that cannot lie, PROMISED BEFORE THE
W🌎RLD BEGAN.
1st Peter 1:20 Who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD, but was MANIFEST (OR REVEALED) IN THESE LAST TIMES FOR YOU.
The Cross, Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the EARTH 🌎 shall WORSHIP HIM, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB SLAIN (OR CRUCIFIED) FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE
W🌎RLD.
The Lost, Revelation 17:8 ,,,and they that dwell on the EARTH 🌎 shall wonder, WHOSE NAMES WERE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE W🌎RLD,,,,
Who will never chosen to be saved.
God is using the lost to bring this Lost W🌎RLD to an end, and to Earn Crowns to Glorify God our Heavenly WITH THE TRAILS WE GO THROUGH.
John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, TO THEM GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME SONS OF GOD, even to them that believe in HIS name:
13 Which were born, NOT 🚫 of blood, nor of the WILL OF THE FLESH, nor of the WILL OF MAN, but of GOD'S WILL.
John 8:36 IF,, the Son therefore shall MAKE YOU FREE, ye shall be free indeed.
John 8:43 Why don't you understand my speech? even because ye CANNOT HEAR MY WORD.
John 8:47 He that is of God hears God's words: ye therefore HEAR THEM NOT, BECAUSE YE ARE NOT OF GOD.
John 10:3-4 To him the porter (door keeper) opened; and THE SHEEP HEARS HIS VOICE: AND HE CALLETH HIS OWN SHEEP BY NAME, AND LEADETH THEM OUT.
4 And when he putteth forth HIS OWN SHEEP, he goes before them, and THE SHEEP FOLLOW HIM: FOR THEY KNOW HIS VOICE.
John 10:26-27 But ye believe not, because YE ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP, as I said unto you.
27 MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I KNOW THEM, AND THEY FOLLOW ME:
John 13:18 I SPEAK NOT OF YOU ALL: I KNOW WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN,,, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
Speaking of Judas Iscariot.
John 14:17 Even the SPIRIT of TRUTH; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: BUT YE KNOW HIM; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 15:4-5 Abide in me, and I in you. AS THE BRANCH CANNOT BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF, EXCEPT IT ABIDE IN THE VINE; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same brings forth MUCH fruit: FOR WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING.
John 15:16 YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU,,
15:19
19 If ye were of the world, the W🌎RLD would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, BUT I (Jesus) HAVE CHOSEN YOU OUT OF THE
W🌎RLD, therefore the world hates you.
John 17:2,,,THAT HE (Jesus) SHOULD GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO AS MANY AS THOU (God) HAS GIVEN HIM.
JOHN 17:6 I HAVE MANIFESTED OR REVEALED MY NAME UNTO THE MAN WHICH GOD GAVE TO ME OUT OF THE W🌎RLD.
John 17:9 I PRAY 🙏 not for the W🌎RLD but for them which God has given me,
John 17:11 ,,keep through the own name (Jesus) Those whom thou has given me that they may be one as we are.
John 18:37 EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HERE'S MY VOICE.
Revelation 3:20 I stand at the door (OF YOUR ❤) and knock, IF ANYONE HEARS MY (SPIRITUAL) VOICE, they will open the door,, ETC
Must I go on.
Thing is did anyone stop to ponder that everything to God is now. Death keeps us in time. God is outside time. When He said I Am. First last. He meant it.
But your point is right on. Mercy.
Jesus is the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world. And John 3:16 declares that “God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” Jesus died for the entire world, and not for a predestined number of people.
common sense Z so does everyone go to heaven?
@@nicolaslosito5735 no only those that accept Jesus Christ as LORD. But yes everyone CAN. Saying God already predestined us for heaven and hell is basically calling him evil and sadistic.
@Loonytoones85 so your god is an evil god. Ok. Sure.
Jeff, being a Calvinist, keeps more people in the lds church then he will ever know
@Bean team THE CULT OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS: THE MORMONS!
THE CULT OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS: THE MORMONS!
I regret to admit, but I believe this to be true......Calvinists sadly misrepresent the character of God
@@matts.6558 yeah, because we don’t pull our idea of the character of God DIRECTLY from the Bible or anything 🙄
@@Tre492 Actually, if you are a Calvinist you read your idea of God into the scripture....it's called eisegesis. Exegesis is where you get something from the text. Nowhere in the Bible does it say people are predestined to hell without there own doing....but feel free to provide some clear scriptures that prove this position....since if this is God's character there should be many many scriptures.
Foreknowledge is not knowing what you would choose it's having loved u before the foundation of the world, its simple God has chosen some and not others because he is sovereign and does that which seems good to him, just because you're flesh thinks it's unfair doesn't change anything
“What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;”
Romans 9:30-32 KJV
When are you guys coming to New Zealand Christchurch? I'd love to fly down and be there
Who wouldn't like to live in New Zealand? The only problem there...is...its too close to China.. who wishes to control everything.
Frank. New York is 6670 miles from Beijing and Auckland NZ is 6716 miles from Beijing.
Why are you continuing to attack Kwaku? Don’t you believe God determines all things which come to pass? Hasn’t God determined Kwaku to be a Mormon, at least for now? So God is determining Kwaku to believe a false gospel and to attack your beliefs, and God is also determining what you believe and your responses? So, technically, God is fighting God in this interaction and being the author of confusion. Also, in your theology, Kwaku is only fulfilling God’s will for His glory; he’s not rejecting the truth with his libertarian free choice. You really believe he cannot do otherwise. That’s exactly what you are saying. Just be honest and upfront about it. Stop misleading your audience into thinking you believe Kwaku is making these libertarian free choices all on his own, as if you can correct him and he can change his mind. As long as you keep championing Calvinism, you can’t affirm true freedom. If you do so, you’re just being dishonest. Some of us can see right through it.
Jeff Durbin, Can you answer this please? HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY THAT GOD CREATED JACK FORM NOTHING(none-existing) and damn him to hell for eternal torture by not obeying Him? Thanks for any Calvinist who can answer me this question....
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC, I am sure that I am saved, but I asked that Question because I don't agree with with some of the beliefs of the Calvinist.... Can you answer that for me? I mistyped the word 'FORM', It should be 'FROM'...
The Bible says we are predestined and it says we have free will. So it is both, whether it makes sense to me or not is irrelevent, I am not God. I actually have come to understand this, therefore this theological difference is not problematic for me. A lot of time is wasted debating Arminianism and Calvinism.
Hey guys, just letting you know, Kwaku suffers from the affliction of emasculation and therefore is unable to think critically. He rather, is only able to emote.
I am a pastor here in Provo and have had Kwaku attend a couple of our bible studies, 2 Thess. I believe, and could have told you before the conversation you had with him, that he is not interested in or capable of truth as he does not have a love for the truth. We do pray for him and others like him continuously!
@Rudy Rodriguez I will pray for Kwaku as well. It grieves my heart to see a young lad at only 22 years of age to believe such lies and trying to spread it as if it's true- is such a scary stumbling block for others who really want to seek God. One must fear while seeking and love correction for obtaining the truth of our one true Lord.
Woah! Like literal emasculation or figurative? Kwaku certainly is a character of one who purposely misrepresents truth because he's of the world.
Also, I have a Mormon cousin who lives in Provo. I doubt you know him.
Please explain how saying he is emasculated helps to move forward this debate. It seems to have the appearance of name calling.
Rudy,
Who is kwaku? Sorry I am
new in this site....
Totally agree!
Jeff says at 6:18 that, "I think, personally, that the largest mass of humanity will be given grace." I've heard Jeff mention this before in another video, which escapes me at this time, but his statement causes me to think on Matthew 7:13 which, in my mind, seems to indicate an opposite position. I don't expect Jeff to see this comment and/or respond to it, but perhaps someone else who shares Jeff's opinion can help me to understand his point of view?
aceblade that’s a good point that verse, but I’ve always kinda agreed with him just because your faith being small will still be enough and the fact that you cannot lose your salvation so right there that’s a lot of grace God gives to us.
aceblade I realize you are looking for opinions that agree with Jeff's but this bothers me greatly, I actually cannot accept Jeff's opinion on Grace, the final judgement is God's perfect Justice and totally clashes with Jeff's warm and fuzzy hopes for a free pass, Jesus is the free pass that many will reject amen
Common grace is that you are alive now, while you should be in hell already. That is grace. More than that. God gives you many good things in life. That is underserved grace.
While God gives many people common grace, grace to salvation is given only to a random, only for few. Grace leading to salvation through faith. Saving Faith is God's grace. Faith is a gift. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
The person asking the questions leans toward Mormonism. He also follows Leighton Flowers. This may help explain some of his presuppositions.
Calvinists are saved by "divine decree" which of course is unbiblical. Cultic thinking leads to erroneous conclusions.
Yes. That is what they believe. Seems a bit unbiblical.
Exactly, why bother saving anyone if they are already predestined by decree.?
All have to make a choice, God just knows beforehand who does and who doesn’t accept Christ as their saviour, that’s why he’s god.
KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC
God simply knows who will respond to his grace and who doesn’t.
God does not create people for hell, he just has foreknowledge of those written in the book of life.
The elect can also be deceived and fall away.
There’s nothing in scripture that says God has predestined anyone to hell, they simply reject God, and he knows this, but the choice has been given.
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC He foreknew them IN CHRIST, He also predestined them IN CHRIST to be conformed to the image of His Son... Everything that God has done is IN CHRIST, therefore the CHOSEN is Christ, not the individual. If you read the scriptures with this idea in mind, you will know that Christ was chosen to create, to redeem, and to reign over His people, that is, those who freely give themselves to Him. Christ is the chosen one according to the scriptures, Ps 89:3, Isa 42:1, 43:10, 49:7, Mat. 12:18, Lk 9:35, 23:35.
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC The lost ship is the world. "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15), 1 John 2:2 (NKJV)
"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." Matthew 28:18-19 (NKJV) "And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
You smart guys debate all you want. I know where I’m going when I die. My favorite author A.W. Tozer wrote this:
“God will not hold us responsible to understand the mysteries of election, predestination, and the divine sovereignty. The best and safest way to deal with these truths is to raise our eyes to God and in deepest reverence say, "0 Lord, Thou knowest." Those things belong to the deep and mysterious profound of God's omniscience. Prying into them may make theologians, but it will never make saints."
In The Forgotten Trinity James White uses a good analogy. He says that not studying theology is like saying "I love my wife" but never trying to learn anything about her.
@@bobbcanaan The flaw in that analogy is that unlike a human marriage (two flawed people) God has already made us PERFECT through Christ, so our knowledge of theology does not have any bearing in our walk with him. He already did the work, and to suggest otherwise is to downplay the power of what Jesus did, and take the focus from him and put it onto us.
Hey Apologia Studios! I’ve never disagreed on any teachings that Jeff or any of the other pastors teach on, however, when Pastor Jeff says “I personally believe that the vast majority of humanity will receive Gods grace” I can’t help but to comment out of love and maybe I’m wrong and I have misunderstood something but the verse that comes to my mind in response to Pastor Jeffs comment is Mathew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
I pray that I didn’t misunderstand what Jeff was saying or misinterpret anything. #apologiastudios
You are correct in your understanding!
You’re correct. He is giving his opinion which is not biblical
Deuteronomy 30:19 NKJV I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life, that both you and your descendants may live
We all have free will. God is the train, and it is our free will to whether or not to hop on.
The best I can explain predestination is pretty simple. God has predestined that all are written in the Lambs book of life and He’s not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance.(2 Peter 3:9)
The day we accept Jesus as our personal Savior we are literally sealed in the Lambs book of life unto the day of redemption.
Those who die without Christ are blotted out of the Lambs book of life.
The idea that God chooses who does and doesn’t accept Him is just not Biblical.
Smith Fan I agree wholeheartedly
Lol. Just make up something that sounds good and tickles the ear and go with it.
Pro 2:1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
Pro 2:2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
Pro 2:3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
Pro 2:4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
Pro 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
Pro 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
@@underwaves75 Hi Mike,I gave you a thumbs up,although I have not go through all the references you gave.I made a comment on a video from Leighton Flowers the thing that amazes me is how educated theologians struggle to interpret the scriptures which were written by simple fishermen and sheep herders,the video you posted just confirm what I was wondering about these clever scholars,the wise becoming foolish.
I appreciate your concern,but be glad that I do question these clever ones and do find a lot of falsety amongst them.I stopped belonging to a ''church'' for almost 7 years and just trust the Lord thru His Spirit for growth in Him and His word,God Bless.
@@chrisamandadeysel5117 The Bible is God’s word. Literally God breathed…
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Not just works of fisherman and shepherds as you said.
Ok, but here’s my quick question in regards to this idea: before humans exist, they have to be created, so if humans are created by God, who molds them, why are they guilty of eternal wrath before they even exist to chose him or not?
This is like saying, my son, who hasn’t been born yet, has been predestined before he opens his eyes, to suffer for eternity, because God chose for him to suffer before he has a choice to follow God in the first place.
I have a question. I have been in Reformed or Presbyterian churches for over 20 years, the last 8 in a very Reformed Presbyterian church. I’m no stranger to the concept of God’s sovereignty in election. But I’ve never heard a minister say he believes the majority of humanity will find grace at the final judgement. This is news to me. I’m not sure that I’ve heard a minister clearly state a strong opinion about it one way or another until now. But the first thought that came to my mind when I heard Pastor Durban say that, was “What about the wide and the narrow path?”. Please be gracious if my confusion seems like a product of lazy Bible reading.
Consider the following from the Christian EAST!
The MISSING DOCTRINE in the Protestant predestination debate is Eastern Biblical GRACE which is "God working in us" to enable ALL people to be free to receive or reject God's love!
Philippians 2:12-13;
Titus 2:11;
1 Timothy 2:3-6
The order is,
Grace > Repentance/Faith > Life in Christ (regeneration)
Jesus is truly God and truly man! The Bible is about the love of Jesus Christ for all!
John 1:1, 14; 3:16; 1 John 4:8
It is by freely believing IN CHRIST by GRACE that we are chosen and elect IN Christ who is God's beloved Son and the only One chosen!
Luke 9:35;
Ephesians 4, 13;
Romans 8:29
These riches in Christ are a result of our freely repenting and being faithful to Christ, which we can only do by the GRACE of God which is "God working in us!"
1 Corinthians 15:10
Apart from Jesus we can do nothing! John 15:5
But God loves His creation and all people and wants all to be saved!
1 Timothy 2:3-6
In love Jesus willingly died for all in order to raise from the dead to conquer death, sin, and the devil for all!
This is Christus Victor!
Hebrews 2:9, 2:14-15;
1 Corinthians 15:22;
Colossians 1:20
God's loving Grace, which works in all who are dead in sin, enables ALL people to freely choose to love God and be saved!
John 6:65; 12:32-33;
Titus 2:11
But the choice to love God remains in all people!
John 7:17; 11:35
The divine order is:
1) Enabling Grace for all!
John 6:65; 12:32-33; Titus 2:11
2) Our freedom to repent and be faithful to Christ! Acts 17:30-31
3) Being united and made alive with Christ (regeneration)!
John 20:31
What the Calvinist system does not have is God's Grace "working in us to enable us," to be free to choose to be in Christ!
Philippians 2:12-13;
John 6:65, 12:33-33;
Titus 2:11
The Calvinist system cannot answer why Adam was created very good and created in God's image and likeness with a "mysterious free will" and Adam lived in a perfect environment and had the Spirit of God and yet Adam disobeyed God and fell from grace!
Therefore, Christians can also fall from grace! Galatians 5:4
The Calvinist belief that God predestined most to go to hell, and that they are given no grace to freely believe is not the God of the Bible Who is Love!
1 John 4:8
God foreknew all those who would believe in His Son by God's Grace!
God predestined them to be like Christ!
Romans 8:28-30;
Ephesians 1:4-5
God did not determine who would believe in Him and who would not! God’s foreknowledge does not cause man’s choices!
To choose Christ and receive Christ's love for us will be Heaven.
To reject Christ and Christ's love for us will be the experience of Hell!
The predestined reprobates in the Calvinist system never have a chance to experience the love of God! This is injustice!
John 3:16
Calvinists believe that in the atonement God the Father poured out wrath and damned and cut off God His Son on the cross! (See Sproul, McArthur, White, etc. sermons) This is a heresy condemned in the Ecumenical Councils because it splits the Eternal Holy Trinity!
Christ died in order to raise from the dead and destroy death, sin, and the devil on behalf of us all!
And now God commands everyone everywhere by the grace of God to repent!
Acts 17:30-31;
Romans 1:20
Jeff, you really confused me with this video... I sought out how my Church understands this subject though, and found that you do not have the whole picture. Please check out "Lawrence Feingold on Freedom of the Will called to communion." Search it on google and click the first link. It's about an hour and a half including the lecture and Q/A, but it perfectly summarizes the Catholic Church's teachings on this matter of free will and foreknowledge.
@@busybody1474, correction jeff is a calvinist.
Surely God foreknew who would accept Him and who wouldn’t. It’s His will to for ALL to be saved! God knows the beginning from the end.
What are scripture teach that God for knew who would choose them and who wouldn’t maybe because it’s the work of God that chooses whom he’s gonna save🤷♀️
Also, you said it’s God’s will for everyone to be saved so who is Will is sovereign is God’s will sovereign or is man’s Will sovereign because if you look in Isaiah 46:10 God says my will be done. I will do all that I please, my purpose will stand.
If it were His will for all to be saved, then all would be. He commands all to be saved, but he predestined those who He would give grace and mercy to. If you come to God, it's only because He drew you to Him. When He draws, you will come, because, as Romans 9 says, "Who are you to resist God?!" Meaning, that when He calls, you will respond. Not on our own, or by our own "free will". Scripture teaches that no man searches for God, none are righteous, not one! Romans 9 "Before" Jacob or Esau did anythibg right or wrong, God predestined them, He chose them, just as He's chosen " predestined" ALL of mankind. God is sovereign, not man. We don't do anything outside of His will.
He predestined Jacob unto election for salvation, and chose Esau, predestined him to destruction, hell. That's God's will, because He's sovereign.
Exactly! As sinful creatures, we have the ability, because of our natural born sinfulness, to disobey His commands; but we will never override His will. Not ever!
Ok, feel free to correct me friends if there is any flaw in what I say, but this is the way I have seen it. That God has a complete foreknowledge of everything that will happen, but doesn't not cause every event to happen. That we do in fact have our own will, once God calls us, to receive or reject salvation. That not all of the elect are caused fully by God to receive salvation. Then not all of those who are destroyed, will have been raised up on purpose by God for that. But that there are specifically those, purposed by God, to be vessels of honor and glory. Then also there are those, like pharoe, who are specifically raised up by God as vessels of destruction. But lastly there are those who are simply common vessels who are most of us, that are not purposed and raised up for either, but we will all be called, and depending on our response depends on who is chosen. Yet, even though God knows who are His at the end of the day, He still, being blameless, calls all to repent and believe in Him. Would love any feedback.
Jeff, you mentioned that you believe that the majority of all people will be saved. I was just curious how you would harmonize that view with Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Thank you very much for your comments in advance. God bless you
I love you fellers but y’all got a comment section that truly works on my sanctification
I love hearing this brothers teaching, I don’t agree with him on eschatological matters, but he is still solid nonetheless.
David Shotwell
I still don’t understand what eschatology is. I’m new.
The Doctor it is the term for end times theology. In other words, how will this world end.
@@areyoutheregoditsmedave, Eschatology on line dictionary: the part of theology concerned with death, judgement, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind.
These three are ignorant and twist there word to make it fit there agenda. They flip flop when it gets serious.
....what is Jeff's eschatology?
Jeff, the Bible does NOT teach that every event in human history is predestined. You are demented, just like Calvin.
I really enjoy Jeff, he and all true Christians are my brothers and sisters. I get a little bothered when a Christian with a particular belief such as Calvinism, tongues, eternal security, pre-tribulation, etc... (not the foundational truths of say salvation by faith, the blood atonement, etc...) says “the Bible clearly says...”
Obviously some very Godly and truth seeking Christians don’t agree with Calvinism. I am talking about Christian scholars and preachers like Ravi Zacharias, Adrian Rogers, Lee Strobel, Josh McDowell, and countless others. They’ve come to their biblical views, which do NOT include Calvinism, through years of Bible study. To say “well the Bible is clear on Calvinism” is untrue. It’s clear to you if that’s how you interpret the Bible, just as it’s “clear” to Church of Christ folks that the Bible teaches baptismal regeneration. I’ve looked into Calvinism very extensively and I don’t subscribe to it. It’s not “clear” to me at all that Calvinism is false, however, that’s the conclusion that I believe through years of study.
Killing it you guys. Please keep up the good work. We need more solid teaching out there that has a modern feel like this. I'll sit and listen to Dr. White all day every day but I know as soon as I share his video people will tune out bc of the vibe. (No hate dr. White. You have been a huge teacher to me) You guys are young and have a dope looking studio. And have killer exegesis!
Calvinism is completely and utterly anathema to the God revealed in the Bible. Not even close.