The Nemesis Rework | A Dead By Daylight Concept
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- The design of The Nemesis has been an under-discussed issue in Dead By Daylight for a considerable amount of time. The nature of his power often leads to frustration on both sides with very little recompense. With this video I hope to explore a rework concept that alters the design in hopes of creating a killer that is more fun for both sides.
00:00 - Intro
00:42 - Voiceline
01:32 - Tentacle Strike
05:44 - Zombies
07:43 - Add-ons
13:39 - Outro
I produce these videos in hopes of inspiring some discussions around the topics in question. The Dead by Daylight community is full of passionate fans with brilliant ideas. With these videos I simply hope to add to the discussion and perhaps provide a point from which other people's ideas can branch out. As always I ask people to keep these discussions civil, no amount of insults will change a persons mind.
Some images for this presentation were sourced from the Dead By Daylight wiki: deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wik...
Many thanks to my friends who helped me in obtaining clips for this video. - Ігри
Okay hitting gens with your tentacle is genius.
It’s seriously not, it’s embarrassing bhvr didn’t think of doing it, i mean as mentioned it would have been perfect for him since he comes with eruption
I've been saying this should have been part of Oni's rage mode too for a fat minute
I really want him to have the ability to burst thru breakable walls, like a teleport ability but very situational and single use. fairly lore accurate imo
That would really fit the classic “how the fuck did they come from there” RE effect. It would be extremely map dependent though, so it’d either be a super niche base kit thing that feels out of place, or a niche addon? I’d take a purple addon that does that
I like the idea that he could break through any kind of breakable object like walls and pallets once or twice per chase.
"Zombies are not useful and cannot be directed"
Discordance with Zombie Speed addons: "That's what YOU think bucko"
Not always.
It's hit-or-miss.
Indeed, Discordance can be very useful for luring zombies to generators. However, I think the requirement to use a teachable perk from a different character in order to make the base power consistently useful is somewhat questionable. Whilst I can appreciate that solutions like this perk offer certain options to improve value, I believe that the power should be consistently useful with the 'base-kit'. Do you think a system such as 'Zombie Patrols' would be useful for this killer or that external options such as perks/add-ons should be used in order to improve this aspect of this killers kit?
@@DBDBalanceBeyond It is at least interesting. But yeah… Imagine if Knight’s guards would patrol the generator, only if killer had discordance or tinkerer :)
@@DBDBalanceBeyondcant be zombies also distracted by red hearing and the pebble?
As a nemesis main that tier 3 balance patch would be so nice i hate having to do those 3 hits on survivors and they hold W the entire game makes me not want to play nemmy
I disagree, getting the three hits seems to me, fair and quite do-able. It’s a small amount of work to have to do to get a worthwhile buff
@@marshall4448 the problem is that it's not as simple. The infection can be purged multiple times throughout the match so that's time wasted. Endurance perks like dead hard makes sure you need 4 hits to down which is next to impossible as the amount of speed you give survs will be too much and end up taking 3 gens worth of time. Even exhaust perks makes you miss the strikes and make you waste more time
@@marshall4448what's worse is that the first strike of contamination gives them a speed boost as a normal hit but the status of contamination literally does nothing but make them cough sometimes
It needs to be 2 hits instead of 3 hits. Cause it's bad enough that you have very bad chase on top of the zombies being completely random.
@@marshall4448It is not worthwhile. The tentacle is quite easy to dodge from close up and the cooldown of tentacle hit is still pretty massive, giving survivors plenty of time to run away and the tentacle having no incentive over basic attacks.
His wall break animation should be him just walking through it and breaking it
They should make it so Nemesis can spent one level of mutation rate to upgrade a zombie with the eye thingy, making them stronger and smarter, just like in the RE3 remake. Then his permanent max mutation rate level goes down by one, and destroying that zombie with a tentacle strike will grant it back. But if a survivor destroys it, Nemesis will have to earn back his mutation rate.
I’ve always wanted something like this too, adding resource management to the power.
1 more suggestion. When hitting a S.T.A.R.S. member with tentacle strike or a M1, they also grunt out "S.T.A.R.S."
Edit: I hate autocorrect
That would be another cool way to include this feature. Again, I think it's a massive shame that it basically goes unnoticed in its current form.
that pallet stun reduction effect would be insane. four breaks and you essentially get enduring.
Yep put that with end and its like a 0.8 sec stun
This is certainly something I had considered when creating that add-on. Combined with the ability to destroy pallets quickly it could be very oppressive. I've made a video in the past few months discussing a potential 'Stat Cap' system. I called it the 'Player Base Modifier Cap', if you were interested in watching that video I'd love to hear what you think. @@adriansrsa90
@@DBDBalanceBeyondmaybe make it so all tokens get consumed after being stunned but it only requires 2 or 3 pallet breaks to get the full effect
Nemesis really isn't a killer who gets pallet stunned since he usually pulls out his tentacle at those.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. This is an awesome idea, making it act in a way similar to Spirit Fury would solve a number of potential issues. Do you envision this as the add-on must be fully charged before activating (like spirit fury) or that tokens can spent at any point (like fast track)? @@foshnchip8084
I never thought he needed a rework until I watched this video, this is legit brilliant I love this
Bhvr needs to hire this guy for addon making because he knows how to cook 🔥
Thank you for the support, were there any add-ons you liked in particular? I feel like add-on design can really elevate a killers power. I'd be interested to know which, if any, caught your eye and why? Taking this sort of feedback onboard can really help when considering add-ons for future reworks. Further, were there any add-ons that you felt were particularly weak/underwhelming?
@@DBDBalanceBeyond I think you really nailed the red add-ons, also jills sandwich was a very clever idea. You're doing great work here
Thank you for the support. The idea with Jill's Sandwich was to create an add-on that's useful for spreading the infection. In tandem with Lethal Pursuer, the Obsession could be targeted at the start of a match and allow for easier spreading of Contamination. Beyond this I thought that it would be cool to create a more useful version of Hysteria through the form of an add-on.@@Crusader-wy7sh
@@DBDBalanceBeyond really all of it. The token addon is good too, we need to see more of that in game
I have to disagree on the zombie change partially, I like it for the most part, but it basically becomes the Knight of a different flavor, Nemesis' zombies are unique for their permanence, and if he's only summoning a single zombie per this power, its weakening the effectiveness of the special enemy type, the zombie should pose a constant threat rather than a 'wait it out' annoyance, especially as that type of feature has been implemented with quite a few perks and addons already, I believe the zombie summoning should be a constant lockout threat that survivor's either have to strategize in 'running and genning', or using resources to remove, if he could still have 2 zombies it'd be a different story, but a one and done sorta deal that will fade wouldn't truly be pressuring enough.
Thank you for taking the time to leave feedback. I considered many different systems for the 'Zombie Patrols' before settling with this one. I found that with any of the systems I considered there were flaws that led to 'harassment' game play. I had considered that waiting out the power would allow for survivors to either move to other generators or take the time to heal/search chests but these are only situational options. Overall, I wanted to get people thinking about ways in which The Nemesis could direct his zombies rather than not being able to control that aspect of his power. I'd be interested to hear more about any ideas you may have. I love discussing these ideas and that's why I started making these videos. Thank you again for leaving your feedback.
@@DBDBalanceBeyond I like the idea of it being a more passive slowdown/pressure with an active additional. (Also prefacing that unfortunately most of my ideas for Nemmy zombie reworks require it to not be tied to only 2 because the net code breaks or whateve BHVR said) So something like you'd have the two zombies that roam around the map, but then the _second ability button_ would summon them to you for a short period of time like your zombie patrol idea. After that time (if they're not in chase) they wonder/teleport back to their previous posts.
I think my dream rework would be you'd have 1 zombie per living survivor that lives for maybe 30 seconds at a time, with the timer draining at a slower speed or stopping when they've spotted a survivor. Zombies spawn in a rough radius near the survivor and have maybe a 30 second or so respawn (with add-ons changing live time or respawn speed). Obviously having zombies spawn nearish players and being able to see them across the map is pretty broken, so only seeing them inside your terror radius, or inside like 8-12 meters, or maybe they make a loud noise marker when they start chase? Typing it out, I was thinking that instead of being able to wound/down survivors, with this change being a bit more oppressive, they'd just latch on to infect survivors, and already infected survivors are maybe grabbed for slightly longer; that could be the loud noise marker. After survivors break free or dodge the attack, adding a bit more wind-up to zombie attacks, survivors can knock down the zombie or something similar, destroying them and putting them on cooldown. Limit zombie spawns when survs are grouped together to a 1 zombie 2 survivor ratio to avoid zombies spawning and blocking off 3 survs working on a gen with no way out but being grabbed (as funny as it would be, definitely not balanced). Definitely more stuff I've not thought about, but a basis for a fun, to me, rework for zombies. Oh, should say that with my rework the active zombie summoning would probably be a little much.
As it stands now, it seems like zombies and Pig's traps (when not using specific builds) are kind of in the same boat; some matches the zombies love just hanging out nowhere near survivors and traps get removed first box or it requires the max number of boxes and the zombies are screaming for mom to get the camera cause they got a triple. I really just want the zombies to be a meaningful, but not oppressive, addition to matches. I'm still new to playing the game, have watched _a lot_ of DBD content, but my last two Nemmy matches, I saw zombies twice. The second match was in Midwich; I saw a zombie at the very beginning walk into a hallway and thought it was a survivor for a moment before realizing it looked nothing like my fellows, which was fun. The second was like 85% through the match, I was in a chase and a zombie was closing in so I had to abandon the loop. I'll admit that I could be biased and attempting to make his abilities stronger as I'm a big RE fan, though I think my ideas aren't too crazy.
@@Matthias129 Thank you for taking the time to share your ideas. I think these are some really cool suggestions. Making the zombies consistently useful is something that the Zombie Patrols was focused on, that said it's not too interesting. Having the zombies as a constant threat to survivors but also implementing a basekit way to deal with them would make the gameplay far more interesting. Also reducing the harassment gameplay and instead focusing on information gathering could allow for some really cool strategies. Using information to make informed decisions is always satisfying. Do you think that such a system could be adapted to only work with the two zombies limit and if so how?
"says STARS when starting chase"
this is what I payed for 🤔
Also would be good if they added a skin for the original design for nemesis before the remake with a rocket launcher mori it would be nice.
I love your humor dude and your rework ideas always seem really good. Always enjoyable to watch :)
Nemesis is my second most used killer. I've easily got hundreds of hours in him alone, (I only have around 3.4k hours in the game so he's like a sixth of my play time)
But I always thought, just let him throw the zombies lol. Reposition, arched range attack, you could break doors with them, and you could grapple them with the tentacle, bring them to you and carry them for the throw or crush them for mutation.
"STARS!"
*throws zombie at survivor the way wesker does*
I have no idea if this is something BHVR would ever consider but I think the idea would be hilarious. The ability to reposition them would make the current zombies far more consistent. Also I love the idea of simply throwing an entire person at the survivors, it would be simultaneously funny and terrifying.
How is the speed boost still not removed on infection ?
since in the games nemesis doesn't really have much to do with controlling normal zombies himself, I always thought they should've added the tentacle heads in some way.
I liked everything up until the zombie one ( haven't heard about the addons pitch). 30 seconds for a zombie that can also be destroyed? No thank you, i'll take my chances with striking wayward zombies.
Very well made video! That being said, this rework is not thought out very well. My main example for this is how completely and utterly it would nerf dragging, the one thing nemesis has going for him. Some ideas are good (hitting gens with power, range being the same through all tiers) but losing the movement speed while charging, "holstering" movement speed and being much slower to pull out the tentacle would significantly reduce the viability of dragging anywhere but spots that are 100% guaranteed to hit anyways (like RPD locker room). The "trade off" for this is being able to infect and injure in tier three, which while nice isnt worth losing the majority if the killers skill ceiling. The main reason for this is by the time youre tier three is most survivor teams will have used most their cures. Sure incredibly smart teams will deny you your power by not curing until absolutely necessary so they may have a few left but with these changes to the strike you'd struggle to effectively hit survivors of that caliber anyways. A better tier three buff would be the ability to hit all survivors, pallets and gens within your strike range, as it would make body blocking and dropping pallets ineffective, but even then that would just be more frustrating to face than he is on live servers. As for the zombie patrols... No. Its some unholy offspring of the knight and skull merchant. Plus it would exclusively screw over solo que. Even a 2 man can easily coordinate to work around the zombie but good luck getting a bunch of randoms to do that. I dont think nemesis needs a rework to begin with, he's mid at best and most of the frustration around nemesis is more of a hitbox issue than a nemesis specific issue. As for the concerns around his zoning, yes being zoned isnt fun, but it isn't constant. You can react to it. Its not like xeno or old slinger/PH. There is time to react accordingly if you have eyes on nemmy if either he attacks or puts his power away. There is also a cooldown if he doesn't attack, yes its short, yes he moves fast during it, but its nowhere near as oppressive as the aforementioned other killers. If he does attack over any low loops simply crouching nullifies his power (assuming one side isnt lagging). If he's not attacking over a loop and out in the open by spinning and moving erratically survivors can throw off a nemesis, even a good one. Yes you're more likely to be hit in the open but its no different than getting m1'd. A rework really isnt necessary if anything he needs flat buffs but really an addon change alone would be enough to make the killer in a better spot. Plus there are other killers in much higher need of a rework (chucky nurse SM knight freddy etc).
Thank you very much for taking the time to leave your feedback. Firstly, the increased draw time would be a nerf to the 'dragging' effect as you have described it. However, the inclusion of slightly increased movement speed with the tentacle drawn and longer range were seen as a way to compensate for this. Whether these adjustments would have a significant impact on 'dragging' is something we couldn't know without testing in game. Further, while playing as The Nemesis in my recent matches I had a considerable number of instances in which being able to contaminate and infect with Tier III would have been very useful. This may be the result of a sub-optimal play-style (I'm not a Nemesis Main) or that the survivors I was facing were playing in a strange way. Knowing how useful this aspect would be isn't something we could know without testing in game. That phrase comes up a lot when discussing these ideas but I still find it fun to have these discussions nonetheless.
With regards to the 'Zombie Patrols' system I thought this may be a point of discussion for viewers. Whilst the system certainly bears resemblance to The Skull Merchants drones I made a number of choices in order to try and prevent a similar play-style. Firstly, only a single zombie can be summoned at any one time with a 30 second patrol and a subsequent 30 second cooldown. This means it wouldn't be nearly as effective at defending generators compared to the old drones system. Further being present inside the radius isn't an immediate 'death sentence' in the same way the old drones were. Finally I had thought that coordinating with other players to deal with this system wouldn't be a difficult barrier to overcome. Currently there are many examples of players luring zombies away from teammates in order to allow for actions such as repairing. Do you think this sort of behavior would be difficult to replicate under the 'Zombie Patrols' system? Overall, do you think there are changes that could be made to the 'Zombie Patrols' system that could improve it as an idea or do you think that an entirely new system would be needed? Or do you think that the idea of being able to direct the AI is a fundamentally flawed system and that, if anything, adjustments need to be made to the current system? I'd be very interested to hear what you think. The 'Zombie Patrols' system is certainly flawed and that's why I love seeking feedback such as yours.
When it comes to the 'zoning' potential of the Tentacle Strike it is certainly possible to react to a drawn tentacle and attempt to dodge it as a survivor in the open. I consider the main problem to be the ability to almost immediately react to survivors actions in loops meaning that most survivors don't attempt to throw pallets/vault windows in chase. When there are community discussions of 'unpopular' killers to face The Nemesis always gets mentioned. I assume his very potent zoning potential is at least in part what gets his name mentioned. The main goal of increasing the draw time was to force a Nemesis player to try and predict a survivors actions in the same way a Huntress or Mastermind has to. Do you think this is a fair assessment or that survivor players are simply not employing the correct counter-play to this killer?
You briefly touched on the need for a change to this killers add-ons but didn't comment on the ideas I presented. Do you think any of the ideas I presented were particularly good/bad and if so why?
Finally, I certainly acknowledge that this killer's design, while flawed, is certainly not the worst by any means. There are plenty of other killers with more problems that should be considered a higher priority. I made this video because I used to play a massive amount of this killer in the first few months following his release. However, I no longer enjoy this killer nearly as much as I used to and so wanted to start some discussions on potential changes to his power.
Once again, thank you very much for taking the time to leave your feedback. I find discussing these topics to be endlessly interesting and responding to comments like these is why I enjoy making these videos so much.
Interesting concepts. Can’t believe you don’t have more subs or likes for this kind of work.
Normally i find rework concept videos usually missing the point or creating even worse versions of the killer but this video is actually well thought out especially the addon rework ideas are so cool and balanced at the same time not even one busted addon( maybe the iri badge is a bit badly designed ) good video
Would be cool to give him an entire rework on the infected mechanic, if a survivor doesn’t cleanse themselves with a certain period of time, they would become a zombie and die and just become one of those zombies on the map, like the bare trap with the pig
Your idea is good, but for zombies I have an idea, zombies still spawn on the map but with a change of iridescent stars badge, you can have a chance to call zombies to camp in the selected area for a period of time. 30-60 seconds
They can do literally any nerfs and balances they need, just let the tentacle actually injure so you dont need 3 god damn hits. It feels so awful.
Oh, the vindication I felt when you suggested Tier 2 Tentacle Strike should damage gens...been saying that for years!
Surprised you didn't make any of the add-ons reworked to focus a bit more on that element of him though. I once suggested on the DbD forums something like 'Tentacle Striking a gen will damage it as usual, and also contaminate the next uncontaminated survivor who touches it'.
But hey, top notch changes overall!
Very much looking forward to a Deathslinger rework video, I went through a big phase once upon a time of thinking out a Wanted Poster system for ol' Caleb, with a Speargun that also damages generators, and much more varied and creative add-ons (in my personal opinion).
These rework concepts are great. I’d love for you to do a Dredge rework, as even though it’s in an ok spot it could get some buffs, such as faster action speeds and a resistance to light sources during Nightfall, as well as addon changes.
Honestly I always thought that zombies should be attracted to survivors that are contaminated, bringing them from the corners of the map to wherever survivors are currently at. But the summoning a zombie is a good idea, and I was even thinking of like a way nemesis could put down something akin to a demo portal which draws the zombies to said point and get them to wander around it, and whenever it’s cleansed or destroyed by a survivor the zombie would simply die and respawn somewhere else.
dude i love these changes so much, good stuff.
You can patrol, kick gens, damage survivors, zone, and get info all from your power with another character already. Just play Knight lol
My thoughts too, this kind of just turns Nemesis into Knight but different. Im pretty happy with how Nemesis is now, as a Nemesis main.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. The goal with this concept was never to create another Knight, given how I think his game play is quite un-fun. If you think The Nemesis is fine in his current form do you think he could do with any minor adjustments? One of the most common complaints of Nemesis players is his poor add-on selection, do you also see this as a weakness of the killers design? @@baval5
One change id suggest is making him not gain mutation (aka levelling up his tentacle) when hitting non-infected survivors and instead increase the infection gained from hittong infected ones personally i think that would make the cures more appealing (almost as appealing as emps against the singularity)
Im not a big fan of the killer getting free mutation points for just using the patrol ability, i think you should only get points from zombies when they hit people
This is just a terrible take
as a nemesis main one of my biggest gripes with him is despite how many play styles he can get with his addons. They all feel inferior to the vastly more powerful and strong combo of taking one crate out of the trial + marvin's blood to get faster level ups on hitting survivors with whip. You wanna be stealth nemesis? Faster zombies? Zombies with better detection range? Wanna be insta down nemesis? Doesn't matter, levelling to tier 3 is the biggest priority you have and having this particular combo to do it much faster invalidates playing nemesis in fun ways because if you give survivors a single inch they will take a mile from you
Oh and whip hitbox? Oh what's that? They crouched? Whiff.
absolute bullshit, they could literally be point blank on you and they crouch through a window or over a tiny wall and the whip completely whiffs. I know the hitbox is odd and is like a growing scale of bars, but the visual is NOT representative of the actual hitbox and its SO infuriating.
Well done
I do think that the Zombie summoning idea is great, but I still do like how zombies patrol the entire map. My idea I had to aleviate both the frustrations you mentioned with zombies would be for Nemesis to perform what I call a "Tyrant Roar" that would attract zombies to the area you roared in to help if zombies are walking on the othersidw of the map. For survivors, I would say give them a Zombie Takedown where survivors are able to destroy zombies by sneaking behind a patrolling or blinded zombie, and destroy them without having to waste a pallet, but still requiring them to successfully maneuver around it without alerting it.
Thank you for taking the time to leave your feedback. At one point I had considered that zombies should be attracted to the sounds of damaging a generator but thought that the system would be too limited. The ability to control the current system through the use of a 'roar' would be brilliant. It would allow for The Nemesis to influence his zombies without needing to create an entirely new system such as 'Zombie Patrols'. Also adding a base-kit way to deal with the zombies would create more engaging game play for the survivors and still act as a for of slowdown. I really like these ideas and they have definitely given me lots to think about. This is why I started making these videos, to inspire discussions like this.
i would make the pallet stun addon be till 8 stacks and decrease by 5% each stack
Thank you for taking the time to leave your feedback. This thing with this add-on that I struggled to decide on is how many pallets it should take to become useful. The pallet count on different maps can vary wildly and I tried to account for that with the add-on. With that said, I think an argument could be made for requiring more pallets. The only thing is that as more pallets are destroyed, the less this add-on will be able to assist you. I think that finding the perfect sweet spot is quite difficult. Was there a particular reason you decided on eight pallets or did you simply think that the add-on would be too powerful under the four tokens system?
@@DBDBalanceBeyondwell thats kinda the point of the addon, assists you with maps with a high amount of pallets while doing squat with small amount. i think like the bare minimum of pallets is 17(?). getting 4 pallets in 1-2 chases is very easy. you could make the cooldown of the whip faster by 5% each stack till 6 stacks after destroying a pallet or a breakable wall.
also with pallet stun addons make sure to specify if it applies to pallet saves!
you either gotta choose, general usefulness or very useful in a specific build (enduring, spirit fury)
@@DBDBalanceBeyond i just watched some nemo gameplay, i think 8% per stack till 6 could be cool
I so badly wish you could tentacle strike generators
Think you should still have 2 zombies though. And if you cannot spawn them where you want, maybe make it so you can control the general direction theyll go
Earned a sub
My only complaint is the fact that the T-virus sample would be core to Nemesis like Marvin's blood is for him now. An idea I like is to make half of Marvin's blood basekit and make it harder to hit to tier 3. Other than that, great vid.
I have been playing nemesis since he came out almost exclusively and I genuinely think removing zombies to make the tentacle better would be the best move zombies get a hit maybe once every 8 games for me and sandbag me more then survivors and speed and fov add ons make them get stuck more often also doubling his pullout animation is jsut going to feel bad I think leave the tentacle as it is but add the gen dmg and teir 3 2 hit but take away zombies and make them an Iri add on or something
Would be cool if you did something about "zombie boosting" especially when Neme is in tier 1 in the beginning its much better to get hit by a zombie for your first hit than getting infected by the tentacle since tentacle injuries dont give near as much power meter as getting an infection does.
This is an interesting point I hadn't considered if I'm entirely honest. Perhaps zombies getting a hit would confer the appropriate contamination points to the killer? I think that it would be very situational under the 'Zombie Patrols' system but as a change to the current zombies it could certainly improve their utility. Thank you for bringing up this point, these sorts of niche problems are still worth considering and I'm always glad to discuss them.
The zombie rework part is jusy Knight again. I Dont think having something like that again is better then what he currently has.
It would be a dream...
I don't know about taking more time to take out the tentacle, it will make his gameplay feel more cluncky, in shorter loops like rock loops with a pallet, it will be impossible to hit the survivor with the stryke, even more with the movement speed nerf.
Thank you for taking the time to leave your feedback. Whilst it would certainly make those sorts of tiles difficult to use the Tentacle Strike on this is similar to how The Huntress currently works. On some tiles The Huntress can't use her power without attempting to land the hatchet as a survivor throws the pallet. This leads to the back-and-forth as both sides attempt to predict the others actions. Whether this would be viable with The Nemesis is something we couldn't know for sure without testing but this is something I was hoping to re-create with these changes. Do you think this would be a viable way to play or make the Tentacle Strike too weak?
although I am not sure about the zombie rework yeah current itteriton of zombies arent that good but giving nemesis essentialy a mini knights power is not that great of an idea in my opinion
but I realy like thoose add on reworks they look realy unique and looks fun to experiment with
The only problems I have with this rework concept are that contamination rate add-ons still become useless once you reach tier 3 (although that’s less of a problem since there aren’t as many of them in the rework) and that contamination doesn’t really do anything when Nemesis reaches tier 3 due to the strike injuring and contaminating survivors. To fix both of these, I think that Nemesis should have a mutation bar in tier 3, requiring somewhere in between the number of points as the tier 1 and tier 3 bars. Once this bar is filled, it resets (keeping any overflow points), injures all healthy contaminated survivors, and temporarily inflicts any injured contaminated survivors with the broken and hindered status effects while revealing them with killer instinct for a few seconds. This would make contamination actually threatening while Nemesis is in tier 3, while still keeping survivor initiative even if there are no vaccines left; would they rather heal as much as possible to avoid being revealed and vulnerable or remain injured to focus on the objective
Thank you for leaving your feedback. This is a point that's difficult when it comes to add-on design. I like the idea that the Mutation Rate still matters while in Tier III with a continued contamination gain. However, I think the ability to potentially injure four survivors with a single Tentacle Strike hit may be a little too oppressive. Perhaps providing temporary buffs to The Nemesis would be an interesting middle-ground? Similar to The Hillbilly with his Overdrive? I'm not too sure what those buffs would be without taking some time to think about it some more. Thank you for this idea, the continued mutation once you've hit Tier III is a really cool concept and has given me something to think about.
I feel like the zombie changes would make it feel a little too much like Knight almost I personally like the Autonomous Zombies I agree though there should be some way to direct them in a meaningful way
this is really cool :0 i would love to see what you will think for Freddy
I’ve always wanted a Nemmy Rework. 😢
I like that the changes aren't too over the top. One thing that I think could be a good addition to the changes listed is the ability to destroy zombies on patrol to get your patrol back quicker sort of like Knight with him hitting his guards to get his power back quicker. I also think doing this should reward players with maybe 0.5 contamination points.. Of course, I think there should be a base cooldown of at least 15 seconds to stop people from summoning a zombie and destroying it immedietally to get to tier 3 immiedetally, or maybe have the ability to get contamination points from destroyed zombies be on a cooldown?
Thank you for taking the time to share your ideas. This could be interesting, the ability to recall zombies would mean that a Nemesis could adjust their strategy on the fly. I'd envisioned the system as useful for summoning zombies on top of a generators with a large amount of progress, for example. Whether these instances would need for a zombie to be recalled I'm not too sure, but being able to recall them would allow for player to experiment with different ideas when summoning the zombies. Do you think that the 'Zombie Patrols' would need other changes along side this?
id written up my own nemesis changes a while ago, and while i wont put the whole entire thing here there are two things i find incredibly important so ill drop that
The tentacle hitbox will now continue to travel downwards after reaching through a gap, window, or other obstruction, therefore hitting any survivor (or zombie) beneath the visibility of the gap or window. Tentacle whips performed before being stunned will now appropriately hit survivors (or zombies) (the same as all other killer powers and even basic attacks, most similarly Pyramid Head).
the main focus is to remove crouching to dodge because its more effective against nemesis than any other, which is especially terrible since hes the weakest of the ranged killers and it doesnt even match visually like it does with say slinger huntress plague trickster etc.
something else i think is important, is to remove nemesis' collision with zombies, that way they should never be a detriment in chase. and also increase the hindered by 1 second because lets be honest its negligible at best right now
Didn’t nemesis have a second voice line during his release where anytime you loaded into the game he would say “Dead by Daylight”?
This is probably the best rework concept for a killer. Hope Behaviour is listening lmao 🤣
Cool or you could just make a modified verison of his Resistance self where is a beast of destruction with his Rocket Launcher.
I think the zombie summoning should take 2 seconds. Time is right on the killer.
Also, the Admin Wristband is objectively worse than the base power, because the increase of cooldown also greatly reduces the contamination points Nemesis gets. Effectively, assuming Nemesis can only summon ONE zombie zone, this gives you a 30 second cooldown increase, which effectively halves the amount of infection points you have.
This add-on could be changed to double the contamination points it gets to cover that.
Thank you for taking the time to leave some feedback. This is something that I hadn't considered. Whilst the majority of Contamination Points comes from hits with the Tentacle Strike it is true that this add-on would considerably reduce the amount of Contamination Points that could be gained from Zombie Patrols. Increasing the Contamination Point gain would be a perfect solution.
I think I would've preferred Mr. X being the Killer with Zombies around the map who mainly provide information and delay, to fit how in RE2Make he relies on noise notifications to narrow down his search cone to actually start tracking you down. Maybe Nemesis could keep the zombies, but they'd have no aura and it'd be a matter of if the Survivors could destroy or incapacitate them before he infects them with his parasite and makes them more dangerous? Or he could focus more on being aggressive and oppressive like he is in the lore.
Honestly given that Mr. X is such a fan favorite I'm surprised that BHVR haven't at least made an outfit available. I love the idea of being able to infect them with the Ne-ɑ parasite. Perhaps this would be a way for The Nemesis to be able to direct the zombies rather than them roaming randomly.
You know what, I really liked your ideas. The add-on rework is also pretty good. However, I think Behaviour has bigger fish to fry (like Freddy and Micheal) before even thinking about The Nemesis. If they were to add a single thing to make The Nemesis better, though, I think they should make his Tier 3 stronger. They could either add your idea of infecting and injuring at the same time, or have him be able of hitting multiple targets. They could make longer to get Tier 3 as a trade off.
The most frustrating thing about The Nemesis for me is that he is supposed to be weaker at Tier 1 and stronger at Tier 3, but his Tier 3 doesn't feel nearly as powerful as it should. Myers, I think, has the same problem.
Thank you for taking the time to share your ideas. Whilst The Nemesis' design is flawed I definitely don't see it as a priority. I made this video because I used to play a considerable amount of this killer after his release. However, in more recent times I found myself enjoying him less and less. I always enjoy discussing killer design and wanted to discuss this killer in particular given my previous enjoyment of the character. I like the idea of making improvements to the Tier III Tentacle Strike. At the moment it does feel a little underwhelming and that's why I suggested the changes I did for the Tier III Tentacle Strike becoming a 2-shot attack. On a separate note, I've made a video discussing The Shape if you were interested.
A lot of these changes would be great, but i must disagree with the Tier 3 damage+contamination and the Zombie Patrol system. The former makes Vaccines completely useless when Nemmy enters tier 3, and the Zombie Patrol system seems just a more limited version of Knight's power with the 16m patrol radius. The main point of frustration people have with the Zombies is being forced to get off the gen with no input from the killer or universal way to deal with the Zombie, and this change would mean this is the only way you interact with the Zombie. Plus, if the patrol radius is only 16 metres, does that mean the Zombie cannot leave this radius while chasing someone? The 30 second limit is also unpleasant.
Some solutions: Tier 3 should allow Nemesis to hit multiple targets with Tentacle Strike, so allowing him to break a pallet and hit a survivor with the same tentacle, dramatically improving his catch up potential. The Zombies are a little more complicated, but I think a reliable way to kill them is necessary to prevent further frustration, as well as movement speed and detection buffs to mitigate this. Perhaps a pistol limited item? Obviously it would do nothing to Nemesis.
While i would love Nemesis to have a speed element to his power his kit is bloated already. However a Roar ability exclusive to Tier 3 that increases his movement speed for a time and attracts zombies may not be too overwhelming.
As a nemmy main I disagree with descent amount of your changes. Your tentacle changes really go against each other but something we can all agree on is that it shouldn’t take 3hits to down a survivor with the tentacle
This rework is incredibly interesting, especially in terms of addons, however I’m not a huge fan of the zombie mechanic; it’s something better suited for a knight rework. I also think it’d be incredibly irritating to deal with in 3 gen scenarios. Id rather have the zombies just passively patrol around the currently active gens/hexes and perhaps give survivors some basekit way to remove them. Like the ability to sneak up behind them and smack them in the back of the head or something xD
The rest of the rework is awesome, although it could have been cool to give him some myers style addons which prevented him from passing T1/T2 but with some buffs to them or some other point to contamination points. Something like “instead of tiering up, hitting full contamination grants a permanent small haste buff (or a temporary large haste buff)” could be interesting.
Thank you for taking the time to leave feedback and share your ideas. The focus of Zombie Patrols was to get people thinking about ways in which The Nemesis could influence the zombies in a match. I wasn't entirely happy with the concept I presented but wanted to present the idea nonetheless in order to allow for add-on creation and to get people talking. I love the idea of being able to deal with Zombies as part of the basekit, this is a suggestion I've seen from many people and I think it's great. Also I really like the add-on ideas, they're a unique concept and could create some really interesting gameplay.
Wouldn't the umbrella addon also hit survivors through small environment?
This wasn't the intention, I can only apologize if my description was unclear. The idea is that the Tentacle Strike would still be cut off by the environment such as thin walls but that all targets up to that point would be hit. For example the Tentacle Strike could destroy a pallet and hit a survivor that is on the other side of the pallet with a single hit.
I would change the zombies to be less knight, in a more simple way being they will only go after uninfected survivors and injured survivors. Meaning survivors who don’t want to deal with the dead can stay infected risking a shorter chase for progression and injured survivors now need to heal to avoid them being harassed. This means the bad part of nemo being three hit power chases is reduced to two and the bad part for survivors being harassment is reduced. I view the zombies when I play nemo as infection vectors more than a free health state.
Thank you for taking the time to leave your feedback. I really like the idea that zombies ignore already infected survivors. The kind of trade-off you described would make the game-play more interesting as a survivor with no clear cut answer. Instead players would have to assess their situation and consider which option is better given the circumstances. I think how zombies should work has been a major point of discussion in these comments and I love it. Bringing all these ideas together and discussing them is why I started making these videos.
I overall agree with tentacle strike changes, but I think that the zombie summoning idea is not well thought out. I think that the current zombie system is fine as it is, as it requires a tremendous amount of skill to utilise well from the nemesis (getting information and using the information to advantage), and that zombie summoning would create a knight situation where it takes no skill and would put survivors into 3 gen scenarios, and this would be even more prevalent with tentacle range increase. Add-ons seems fun and nice but as I said I would change them to match the current zombies and change their effects.
Thank you very much for leaving your feedback. I had considered that the Zombie Patrols bears resemblance to the Knights/Skull Merchants drop ability to defend area system. I made a number of decisions in order to reduce the ability to simply '3 gen'. Along with the recent '8 Damage Instances Cap' there could only be one zombie at any one time. Further, the limit would be at a 30 second patrol, rather than remaining in position endlessly. Whether this would be enough to limit to ability to re-create 'Knight/Skull Merchant' style gen defense isn't something we could know for sure without testing. I'd be interested to know if you think that the zombies should be something that you as a killer could direct, or if the current system should remain as it is?
@@DBDBalanceBeyond I think that the zombies right now rarely gets stuck or anything like that, they at least patrol around normally. what I think is that zombies movement speeds should be increased and everything else should stay as it is. that way it gives survivors incentives to bring flashlights and kill zombies with pallets.
@@jjacademygaming9453 Thank you for taking the time to respond, I think some simple adjustments could do a lot to improve the current zombies but I personally find the lack of control to be unsatisfying as a killer. This is why I created a concept that allows for direct control. Seeing different opinions is always interesting, however, and it gets me thinking more about potential changes for this killer and others as well.
There needs to be a downside for staying infected outside of being hit with tentacle strike. Mayme zombies move faster while chasing an infected survivor
As a nemmy main 'tier 3 infects and injures unifected survivors' not only sounds amazing, Nemmy NEEDS it. The fact that you can get that deep into a game and are actively still being required to hit survivors on average 3 times is just backbreaking and destroys a ton of that thick muscly potential.
The zombie rework does feel like the knight but mildly diffrent
had an idea that you could mark a zombie and then select an objective(Generators, Gate switches[while not in EGC], hex totems) for them to go to.
they go on a 40 second cooldown where they cant be marked and are in red. they walk 10% faster to their destination, if they find a survivor or reach their destination then they return to their normal speed.
Once they reach their destination they stand around for like 5 seconds then they go away. if they find a survivor then they chase them, once their chase ends their mark cooldown is reset to 0 and return to walking around randomly
also please keep a zombie speed addon, its stupidly funny
Thank you for sharing your ideas. I really like this idea for being able to improve the zombies movement and pressure. The Zombie Patrols concept was meant to enable this sort of gameplay but shares characteristics with The Knight meaning I had to diminish certain values in order to try and avoid re-creating that sort of gameplay. This hybrid between roaming and patrols really embraces the best of both with The Nemesis being able to influence Zombies but without the problems that Zombie Patrols may face. It's reading ideas like these that make these videos worth it. I love seeing these ideas and being able to discuss them. Can you think of any add-on ideas that could work with your proposed system?
@@DBDBalanceBeyond I really idk the resident evil franchise much or the names of addons so ill just mention rarities instead of names(except one)
Common
• Increases zombie patrol speed by 10%
• Reduces cooldown per zombie by 10 seconds
Lickers tongue(Uncommon)
• Removes 1 zombie from the trial
• Increases zombie movement speed by 150%
• Reduces cooldown of patrols by 10 seconds
• Survivors hit by a zombie suffer from a 5% hindered effect for 5 seconds
Rare
• Survivors being chased by a zombie are inflicted with blindness, Lingers for 20 seconds after the chase ends
• They are also inflicted with exhausted, Lingers for 5 seconds
Rare
• Zombies can slowly vault windows or pallets if it makes the route faster
• Zombies only during chase can perform medium vaults on windows and fast vaults on pallets
• Maximum speed of zombies is capped at 3.8m/s
Very rare
• Zombies chase uninfected survivors 50% faster
• Spawns 1 more crate
Ultra rare
• Gain 3 stacks for each new infection
• Gain 2 stacks for destroying a zombie
• Lose 4 stacks if a survivor destroys a zombie
• Lose 1 stack if a zombie injures a survivor
• For each stack zombies are 15% faster
• Maximum stacks of 20 stacks
Boom i have no clue on balancing so forgive for anything complicated or too strong for its rarity
@@lukasVGL Thank you for taking the time to share your ideas. I really like the add-on concepts. They would definitely help to make the zombie more prevalent and threatening in the trials. You 'Licker Tongue' add-on sounds like a new-wave meme add-on. It makes me think that it should also grant bonus devious bloodpoints (not that The Nemesis needs them). Also for the Ultra Rare I really like the token system incentivising a back and forth with both sides attempting to control the movement speed of zombies, this sort of concept would make countering the zombies far more interesting. I'm not too sure how much these add-ons would affect the balance of this killer but they would certainly be fun to play around with. Thank you again for sharing your ideas, these discussions are always interesting to me.
While I agree with many of the points in this video. I feel like the reworked zombie mechanic would overlap too much with the abilities of killers such as Knight or Skull Merchant.
Thank you for leaving your feedback. This is definitely something I was aware of when considering the 'Zombie Patrols' system. I tried to make the system far less oppressive than what the Knight and Skull Merchant are capable of in order to reduce the efficacy of '3-gen' strategies. Do you think there are changes that could be made to the 'Zombie Patrols' system in order to improve it or that a new system would be needed?
DOUBLE the load-up time for a tentacle?? Zombies become a *much* worse version of Knight's power?? Calm down there survivor main.
Thank you for taking the time to leave a comment. The focus on increasing the draw time was to reduce the ability to zone on the fly. Along with some suggested buffs (2-shot in Tier III, increased movement speed with Tentacle Strike drawn) the focus was to make The Nemesis more akin to other medium range damage killers. The focus on making the Zombies unable to effectively zone in chase was an attempt to prevent the zoning gameplay that defines the Knight but make them more consistently useful at defending objectives. Do you think these changes would be a nerf to The Nemesis and if so do you think this killer needs any changes at all? Also I 60/40 killer and survivor respectively.
Less zombies? Nah Nemesis needs more zombies lol
How about instead of just making tier three hurt them while ignoring if they had infection or not
Why not just make every survivor infected permanently or do you want the hindered included in tier three when a survivor is getting infected
I get these changes give more risk for a higher reward, but I think I would prefer the current Nemesis we have in DBD. DBD Nemesis has a low skill floor but also has a medium skill ceiling which I think makes him a perfect killer for new players. New players can get a good feel for DBD with The Nemesis(new players tend to buy the RE chapter and honestly it’s a good dlc to start with) and it doesn’t take too much to master them compared to other killers.
Ngl I slways prefer the fun simple killers like chucky and pyramid head these complicated killers that punish u hard for failing just feel sweaty as hell and tiring
Thank you taking the time to leave your feedback. I think that this killer can be useful as a simple killer to learn DBD with but that he can also teach some bad habits. His zoning potential is considerably different from other killers such as Huntress and Wesker. The suggested changes to the Tentacle Strike seek to bring him in line with those sorts of killers and therefore lessons learned from your time with him would be more applicable to those other killers. On a seperate not do you think that any adjustments could be made to the current Nemesis without sacrificing the 'new player friendly' nature of his power?
Dude, i would love to see you do a small rework to doctor to have actual synergy with his power, and maybe even a big rework as he is very boring to verse and not all that fun to play (at least from what i've seen and experienced
Thank you for taking the time to leave a comment. This is something I've found after his recent buffs. He is much more fun to play as but much less fun to play against in my opinion. Whilst I don't have any concrete plans, this is something I am thinking about.
It's a shame devs don't listen to these good ideas
This is neat, I like your channel, but tragically this is DBD community, this will fall on the deaf ears of the masses, I honestly LOVE this concept.
You're not deep. You're just a dick for lumping us all together like this.
all is great ideas except the zombie part its just skull merchant all over again
11:35 this would be SO busted with an end game build and 9:18 or 8:40!
These are good ideas. But the zombie rework i feel is abit too much of a nerf
Thank you for taking the time to leave your feedback. I'd considered a number of systems for the 'Zombie Patrols'. On the one hand they should be useful as a defense. However, given the similarity to The Skull Merchants old drones system I didn't want them to be anywhere close to that level of oppressive. There has been lots of discussion regarding the zombies and 'Zombie Patrols' as I presented it. Do you have any thoughts on how to improve the system or do you think that instead there should be a focus on improving the current system?
Unrealistic Idea: Make Nemesis have 12 zombies and give the survivors guns instead of vaccines in the crate (nemesis is resistant to bullets in RE3).
I think more killers should be like Nemesis in the way that you don't start full power and upgrade overtime. I actually like the ideas in this video a lot but honestly with the zombies, I would just want to see one or two more zombies but maybe a way to stealth kill a zombie or if you bait a zombie hit to miss, you stun it and can kill it in that time (kinda like Victor). Zombies could also just never go to the side of the map with no gens and get improved AI with slightly more base speed taken from the power of his addons that increase speed. I love the idea of the tentacle changes and that alone would definitely help a lot with Nemesis. Also, to make vaccines not worthless against tier 3 Nemesis, the tier 3 tentacle strike could do the immediate damage to a survivor who recently vaccined. Overall though, this was a great video that made me think about the issues with Nemesis.
Thank you for taking the time to leave your feedback. Introducing a system to disable zombies without the need to use a pallet could be a really cool idea. One of the biggest weaknesses 'Zombie Patrols' highlighted by other players was the idea of having to simply wait around doing nothing while the time ticks down. Introducing a way to deal with them such as guns or otherwise could really make dealing with them a more fun experience.
Overall this is a great rework, my only complaint is that making the tentacle take twice as long to come out seems a bit much.
Thank you for taking the time to leave your feedback. I made this change in order to make him less potent at zoning, whether this would be too much I can't say for certain. The idea was that in tandem with the ability to 2-shot survivors with the Tentacle Strike his gameplay would be more in-line with killers like The Huntress and The Mastermind.
@@DBDBalanceBeyond I understand why you did it that way. I think 1.5x slower would be more fair though. Still takes longer but still allowing for more liberal use but still requiring a bit of planning to use. Perhaps 1.7x if that makes it still to easy to zone
@@daf4tman783 That could be a good middle-ground. The sad thing is that this sort of stuff can't be tested in any way. I think finding the 'sweet-spot' for these values is generally something that requires educated guesses and some testing.
Your changes complety remove any point to getting tier 3. By the time nemmy gets tier 3, survivors usally dont have any more vaccnines, so being able to injure and apply containmention is complety pointltess.
Honestly it feels like your trying to make changes without acaullty thinking them though fully. Zombie patrols sound REALLY awful from both sides, even more then the current ones.
This rework is...imo..pretty bad. Comes off like you dont understand his strengths and weaknesses, but are too foucsed on making it more fair for survivors without caring about the killer side
Exactly.
The whole “tier 3 damages and infects” is useless, especially for a killer that plays correctly and maximizes infection/damage he inflicts
It just feels like he nerfed every tier for no real reason. The entire point is he starts out weaker and gets stronger.
Thats like giving myers in tier 1 115% movespeed and all the buufs from his other tiers @@kingol4801
Thank you for taking the time to leave your feedback. In the matches I played before finalizing ideas for this rework concept I had a considerable number of instances in which I was chasing uncontaminated survivors while in Tier III. This may have been down to a sub-optimal play style or the survivor players behaving strangely. Do you think there are other changes that could be made to the Tier III Tentacle Strike or that it's fine in its current form?
The 'Zombie Patrols' system does indeed have a number of flaws, something that has been interesting to discuss in the comments. Do you think there are improvements that could be made to the system or that a completely new system would be needed?
Whilst I certainly hoped to make him more fun to play against, given his current unpopular position with survivor players I had also made a focus to improve the game play for Nemesis players as well. Do you think that the suggested changes wouldn't be too useful to the Nemesis or that different changes need to be made to his power?
@@DBDBalanceBeyond For tier 3, I think it just needs some big ofmoph if that makes sense. It's actually super hard to reach tier 3, so it should give a big reward for reaching it.
As for zombie patrols, they just sound worse Guards. My idea was give Nemesis an ability he can use to command them in some form. Maybe summon them to his location, stand guard, ect.
I like Nemesis because he feels like a large unstoppable tank, while the zombies keep survivors busy to help buy me time.
Do you one better.
Toss out Nemesis and put in Mr. X.
I wish they did something about console. Like mf it's so hard to play nemmy on console
Just play the knight lol
So basically you're suggesting a Nemesis nerf? You say survivors hate killers that are powerful at zoning, but your rework of the zombies are basically a knight copy & paste? You know, the knight who is extremely good at zoning survivors. This rework doesn't make sense. Why are we also talking about tweaking his movement speed and nerfing it? Nobody has ever complained about Nemesis' movement speed while holding or cancelling his tentacle strike. Nemesis is not known for m2-faking and it's more punishing than anything, especially in loops or tiles. The buffs you suggested would be fair & not too overtuned even with the current movement speed he has. Broken Recovery Coin doesn't need a change either. It's literally his best add-on, alongside Marvin's Blood. A ping system would be a better idea for the zombies instead of spawning them ourselves.
Thank you for taking the time to leave your feedback. The goal with this concept wasn't to nerf The Nemesis but instead bring him more inline with other medium-range damage killers. Whether or not these changes would act as a nerf isn't something I can be certain of but it was never the intention when developing this concept.
When creating the 'Zombie Patrols' system the ability to zone was something I was acutely aware of. I made a number of suggestions in order to reduce the efficacy of zoning with this power mid-chase. First The Nemesis would be required to stand completely still for 3 seconds while summoning a zombie. This would give the survivor in chase a massive amount of distance and greatly extend the duration of a chase through simple 'W-keying', something a Nemesis would wish to avoid. Next the 30 seconds patrol and subsequent 30 second cool-down would mean that unless a survivor loops for over 60 seconds after the zombie has been summoned this couldn't be done more than once per chase. In the average chase this wouldn't come into play more than once. Finally the presence of a zombie on a loop wouldn't act as a guaranteed health state in the same way a Knights guard does. The reduced movement speed of the zombies means that whilst they can certainly have moments of utility in chase they aren't guaranteed to force a survivor into unwinnable situations through their presence alone. In total the goal was to make using 'Zombie Patrols' as a zoning tool ineffective and encourage people to rely on the Tentacle Strike as the primary means of improving chase potential. Do you think there are changes that could be made to improve the 'Zombie Patrols' system or that an entirely new system would be needed? You mentioned a 'ping system', but didn't elaborate. I'd love to hear what ideas you have for improving the way that Zombies work.
With regards to the movement speed changes, this was an attempt to bring him in line with other medium range killers who give survivors distance when they're zoning. Currently a Tier III Nemesis can zone a survivor and not be punished in terms of distance lost. By increasing the distance lost by The Nemesis the option to draw the Tentacle would be more of a choice rather than the correct answer, similar to the choice a Huntress player has to make at a pallet. The compensation for this would be that the Tentacle Strike would be
a 2-shot after hitting Tier III like the majority of other medium range damage killers. You mentioned that you think the buffs should be applied without any nerfs to the movement speed, do you think there are any other changes that should be made?
Finally I made the change to the Broken Recovery Coin because I never found it that interesting to use. It is certainly his best add-on (though that's not saying much) but as a player you don't really do anything with it. It just gives you value by reducing the number of hits you have to earn in a match by one. If you think the add-on is fine in its current form, that's fine. I only made the suggested change in order to improve how fun I think it would be to use.
Thank you again for leaving your feedback, I love discussing these topics.
@@DBDBalanceBeyondI made a guide on a potential Nemesis rework in the future. If you want, we can discuss it on discord via DMs.
@@stellarportals Thank you for taking the time to respond. Whilst I am flattered by your offer I will have to decline for now. I prefer to keep these discussions public where I can, that way anyone can contribute their ideas to a discussion. With that said I'd be interested to hear your ideas for a Nemesis rework, if you wanted to share them.
This makes me unhappy
behavior will never implement any of this.
not because these are bad changes, but because behavior is too stubborn to ever take any community feedback
your ideas counteract each other a bit, first you want the tentacle to be used less as a zoning tool, but then you want the zombies to become a zoning tool on demand, and the mid-chase instant gen hitting is absurd, there's a reason no other killer can do that, think of all the perks that would require a rework due to that as well ( i.e surge, brutal strength and others)
Surge wouldn't work in the first place since it only goes off on m1 downs not special attack downs
I'm pretty sure you were thinking of pop goes the weasel instead of surge, but I can see that. Instantly dropping a gen's progress by a chunk without even losing chase would be very powerful.
I do agree that perks probably shouldn't apply to the gen but I think hitting a gen with a tentacle and a cooldown to give enough survivors a bit of time to gain distance in chase would work. I also think that it could probably be moved to tier 3. I honestly love the way Nemesis' zombies currently are and just want more of them with a way to kill them without wasting a pallet or flashlight, especially with the changes to other killers to make flashlights not counter their power (Nurse, Hag, Wraith, etc.).
@@CaptainConner_ honestly damaging generators with tentacle could be an add on, and an actually good one at that since the only good add ons nemi has are the ones that increase contamination rate on zombies and survivors
@@kielbasamage i doubled checked, surge only goes off if the survivor goes down with a basic attack, nemesis tentacle is a special attack and cant trigger it
I do like these changes, however, the already short supply of vaccines would make versing a tier 3 nemesis would make them absolutely worthless since you cant just pop them mid chase. Unless the Nemesis is playing hit and run the tier 3 change would be problematic since it would make versing them in tier 3's only stratefy being dropping pallets in advance and holding W, hoping the changes to his speed be enough so you can make it to another pallet, and repeat until you go down.
The idea with the Tier III Tentacle Strike changes was to make The Nemesis more lethal and less oppressive. Survivors that correctly predict that The Nemesis is going to draw the tentacle would be given distance, given the reduced Movement Speed with the Tentacle drawn. Do you think there are other changes that could be made to improve the system and make it more engaging?
Nemesis is one of the last killers you should even think about reworking, a video about freddy would be much more worth while
I certainly agree that there are plenty of killers more deserving of a rework, including The Nightmare, I wanted to discuss what used to be one of my favorite killers. With that said I do appreciate that it may be more worthwhile to discuss other killers that have far more fundamental flaws. If that is something you're keen to discuss then my next killer rework video may be of more interest to you. It probably won't be out for some time but it's definitely something I'm interested in talking about.
No rocket launcher trash rework
Do u really think bvhr could even pull off something like that?
@@therandomgamer8107 They pulled of a granade launcher with Unkown quite well.
This is the same thing, but more restricted. Akin to a mix between Artist and Unknown
Sorry for writing this late, but i just wanted to share my opinions on zombies and a bunch of add-on.
The summoning mechanic seems honestly Skull merchant 2 in my opinion.
Maybe i would just put another button that indicates to one of the zombies where they should go, they are mindless zombies, not obedient pawns, so by doing so you can make them move from useless spots to a more interesting place, it doesn't need to be THAT complicated.
For the add-ons i would change the ones that affect directly your zombies as like i mentioned before, the idea is kinda repetitive and it doesn't fit the character at all.
And a little question, does the umbrella iridiscent add-on damage like EVERYTHING in one hit? Like both pallet AND survivors?.
Good concept btw budd!!
Thank you for taking the time to leave your feedback. The 'Zombie Patrols' is something I struggled to come to a definitive conclusion on and I wasn't entirely happy with the design. I made a number of adjustments in order to prevent the zombies from being nearly as powerful as the old drones including limited time defense, a single patrol at any time and the ability to reduce their potency when survivors work together. With all that said I'm not certain if that would be enough to prevent similar game play. Do you think that adjustments could be made to improve the system or that an entirely different system would be necessary? With the Iridescent Umbrella Badge the idea is that, yes, the Tentacle Strike would hit all targets in it's path such as a Survivor and a Pallet.
@@DBDBalanceBeyondPersonally, i would just put a new part of the power where like i said in my previous comment, you "select a spot" and one of the 2 zombies picked randomly will go into that zone and if they find a survivor in the meantime while they walk, they will forget the order you gave them and start to harass the survivor, i would add a big cooldown to this so it doesn't feel like knight 2. Like imo if you make them "zone related" like in the video i can already imagine Nemesis placing both zombies into the two remaining gens while he guards the third one, or in a loop of tbe game while he presses both buttons to annihilate the pallet and sandwiching you with tbe zombie.
Anyway that Iridiscent you made is nuts damn, especially with the Tier 3 tentacle rework you made, every Nemesis main will play it for sure 100%
Hey dude. I’ve been working on a list of balance changes I want to mod as a proof of concept. Would you be interested in working together? I can include your version of changes to killers, and we can work off of each others ideas. We can communicate through discord if you wish.
Thank you for making such a generous offer. I'm flattered that you would want to include my ideas in your proof of concept. However, between work, family, personal commitments, making these videos and playing DBD I don't have too much free time. If I were to take you up on this offer I'd want to do so knowing that I can properly commit myself to such an undertaking. With all that said you are free to use any and all of my ideas in your work, I'd love to see how these concepts actually work in-game. Further if you ever wish to discuss any ideas, mine or yours, I'm always happy to (though I may not be able to respond in a timely manner). I'm not currently discussing my ideas through discord, though that is something I may wish to do in the future, depending on how this channel progresses. For the time being I'm using the UA-cam comments sections and potentially e-mail if you wanted to discuss larger concepts at length.
@@DBDBalanceBeyond i appreciate the honesty.