You cooked so hard. Its impossible to tell how well these changes would feel without testing but i think its already infinitely better than the state he is in right now. At the moment he feels terrible to play as and against, and these changes would fix those alot. The cooldown when damaging a survivor for a healthstate is also a perfect solution to how hard Trickster can camp hooks, but also allows him to carry more knives because he won't be able to camp effectively.
Thank you very much for the supportive feedback. I saw the cool-down mainly as a way to reduce frustrations in chase, reducing the efficacy of camping was a nice by-product of the suggested change. That said it is also an important aspect to consider, given how effective this killer can be when camping. I see camping as an issue to be solved separately from Killer changes, but when solution overlap it's always a nice bonus.
I would love this update. My favorite thing to do against trickster, bubba and nurse is to use lockers skillfully to dodge their power. Currently, main event is hard to counter with lockers. The old one and your suggested one is great. It also gives his old counter back (los blocker loops) since now he is 4.6 and can catch up to you much easier.
I've been maining the Trickster since I first started playing DBD back in August of 2021. He's my favorite killer in terms of lore, design, and gameplay. Unfortunately, I feel like his most recent rework failed to solve the issue of making him feel more rewarding to play while also making him less frustrating for the survivors to play against. I think all of these changes that you've suggested make Trickster seem like an actual killer now and I really hope BHVR sees this and implements some of these changes into the game.
These changes are so good that I trust you to rework Clown. Honestly I really respect that you’re able to analyze the core frustrating aspects of the Trickster while still adhering to pre established characteristics.
Thank you for your feedback, it means a lot. For the moment I think that The Clown is in a good position. Given the round of changes being made to his kit in the next patch I'd rather wait and see how his balance plays out before committing to making a video on him. That said, I do think his add-ons are in need of some changes based on their balance and repeating effects.
I absolutely love the ideas! The addons give a lot of variation in playstyle but some of the lower rarity ones may be a bit too strong imo. Rewarding accuracy is something I think this dude needs, but the system is also decently forgiving which I think is good. 4 knives missed stunning you might be a little, but thats just my thoughts. I think you did a wonderful job all in all and appreciate the effort
@@DBDBalanceBeyond most of them are fine, melodious murder seems really strong, it used to be an iridescent addon but now its green. the extra knives on bloody boa seem like a little much but in actual gameplay i think they might be okay? cut thru single seems OP especially when paired with the longer mending addon
@@t8ert0t32 Interesting points. I figured adding the Death Throes Compilation effect to a rare add-on would be fair, given how it wasn't considered 'Iridescent worthy' previously. However, with the increased carry amount it may be a little much. Perhaps being made Very-rare/Purple would be a suitable middle ground. Regarding the Bloody Boa I figured that given The Trickster isn't as powerful as The Huntress he should have to reload less often, however, combining with Melodious Murder could be potentially too much. As for Cut Thru U, I figured that in order for a player to get value they would need to injure a Survivor and then drop chase. 'Hit 'n' Run' is usually only a strategy employed by stealth killers, giving that potential to some other killers may allow for a different play-style, especially when combined with the Lucky Blade. How powerful it would be is something I think only practical testing could determine, though I find it fun to think about. Thank you very much for your feedback, I really enjoy discussing these topics and considering different ideas for design changes.
I think the part where trickster does the knife tricks should be only when he downs someone, so he still can’t down 2 surges when they unhook, but he can still feel powerful using his power that only occurs every 30 knives hit, and some knives are even deadlier it will be even more rare, other than that great rework
Thank you for taking the time to leave your feedback. I'm now realising that I should have been clearer when explaining the cooldown aspect of this rework. It wouldn't activate during a Main Event, even when taking a health state. The added cooldown would only occur when taking a health state during the regular Knife Throwing with a focus being on alleviating frustration felt by Survivors.
My idea for reworking Trickster would be mixing some aspects of Huntress with some unique aspects to him along with some QoL changes to make him stronger but, hopefully, less boring to face : He only holds 30 knifes, but now only needs 3 knifes to injure having a slight longer wind up time to each knife throw. This would give survivors an actual chance to dodge the knifes while making hitting them more satisfying and rewarding. The knifes would hit the same spot on your screen, regardless of which hand he is holding them and the recoil would stiil be gone ( I never understood why throwing knifes had recoil but ok ). The knifes would ricochet once in the environment, to give an actual feeling of ' trickster ' to him. The main event could just be a slight version of current trickster, but with no ricochet, the knifes do half the damage and each consecutive knife hit make main event 0,5 seconds longer with the base duration being 10 seconds. Main Event would need 30 points to get charged, being that hitting consecutives knifes gives more points and I tohe should be able to store main event, but couldn't use it near a hooked survivor ( kinda like Artist ) except when im the End game. And finnaly, he would be 4.4 with a T.R. of 24 meters again. Its not perfect, I know, this would need A LOT of tweaks and changes, but hopefully its a step in the direction of making this killer stronger and more fun to play as and against that he is right now.
Thank you for sharing your ideas. I love your suggestions, putting a focus on slower more accuracy based game-play is something this killer really needs. The focus on rewarding players who take the time to aim or dodge the attacks is something the power currently lacks. Do you think that under your concept his add-ons would need to be adjusted in any way?
@@DBDBalanceBeyond I definitely think that a lot of add-ons would need tweaks and others would need a complete rework, but all I really want for this killer is that his gameplay would focus on proper aiming and precise knifes throws instead of the spray and pray gameplay he has right now.
Am late but idea, maybe the main event could give more speed for each knife hit during it? Like, each hit gives 3% and each miss takes away 1%, up to a maximum of 30% haste (maybe) The other stuff would have to be adjusted accordingly but I wanna see lightspeed trickster lmao
The removal of the bouncy knives is a big hit, in my opinion. It's one of my favorite add-ons in the entire game. What was your reasoning behind reworking it?
The focus with the rework was on slowing the gameplay down and rewarding accuracy. The Trick Blades would be very difficult to use with the added 'Miss Streak' fatigue and lead to the add-on feeling very limited. Further, whilst it's often considered fun to play with I don't think it's very fun to play against. Inherent to the counterplay of a ranged killer is the need to take cover, this is something that the add-on bypasses and can lead to really frustrating gameplay as a survivor. I'd be interested to know if you enjoy playing with or against this add-on more?
I really like this rework idea. The Trickster is maybe the second killer that I hate the most after Skull Merchant (Spoil : I actually only hate 2 killers). I may have dropped a bomb, so I precise that I don't really hate this killer nor the Skull Merchant, but I don't find their gameplay engaging. I have some things in mind, but I don't know how it would work. This actually seems very similar to yours, but with a new power interaction. First of all, taking him back to 110%, 16m TR (you'll understand why later), 6 blades per health state, 40 blades (more accuracy = less missed blades = less blades needed). Then, reducing tremendously the inaccuracy. I wouldn't make it 100% precise, just making very slightly more to the left or to the right if the blade is thrown with the left hand or the right hand, to give survivors a way to dodge blade (if it would be 100%, it wouldn't be impossible but still RNG based. Now survivors can do fast right-left movement synchsonised with Trickster's throwing to have actual counter-play, but the killer could still predict that to not make his power useless. I precise that it's a very very subtle inaccuracy) Then, after making a survivor lose an Health State with blades, you'll still do the little trick animation (I'm a Clown's knifetrick enjoyer), but it will be 32% faster than a hit cooldown (like STBFL full stacked) to reward him for using his power. Combos are a good idea, and the values are really clean, I would keep that unchange. Just to precise, it would be without pulling down the blades. I would also make the current trick blade add-on basekit. I think it's pretty fun for killer's side to use, but it could be a bit unfair for survivors, so I'll do the following change : Blades hit by bouncing only afflict half damage (but keeping the combo system halved down) Missing 4 blades without pulling down them will make you enter a short stun animation. Laceration metre will no longer decoy with time. Instead, 20 seconds after the last blade hit, the Laceration would decrease reaching previous laceration level, then you can wound care, taking 2 seconds each, and taking away a Laceration level each. (For example, if you are at 4.6 blades / 6, it would go back to 4/6, and you can wound care 4 times for a total of 8 seconds to reduce Laceration metre to 0. OK, I think this would already make him better, now the fun part come : All throughout the environment are scattered 10 speakers. Speakers Will be likely to spawn near generators, and will spawn on high ground spot. If you're within 16 metres of an active speaker : •You can not hear the Trickster's lullaby, which reach 28 metres. •You're allowed to wound care 10 seconds later •It takes 1 more second per wound care The Trickster will also beneficiate from being within this radius : •Reloading is 15% faster •You're allowed to miss one knife per combo •The blade trick and the miss blades stun are shorten by 8% Additionaly, you can turn 2 speaker of your choice with high pitch mode on. Survivors in its radius will slowly become crazy, taking 45 seconds. Upon becoming fully crazy, survivors give their location by killer instinct for 3 seconds, and are oblivious for as long as they stay crazy. Additionaly, they can't wound care anymore. Craziness will disappear if you stay away of speakers' radius for 30 seconds. While crazy, survivors whistle a song Survivors can turn off speakers by following their alimentation cable and finding their associated battery, turning it off. This takes 6 seconds, and electrified them. Survivors can get rid off electrification by not working on a gen, a doorswitch, or interacting with battery for 30 seconds. A survivor electrified interacting with a battery will lose a health state. Every 60 seconds, a speaker will automatically turn back on. Additionaly, The Trickster can interact with them to turn them back on. Now Main Event : Main Event needs 100 charges •Becoming crazy gives 30 charges •Each crazy survivor staying in a speaker's radius gives 1 charge per second •Each crazy survivor staying in a high-pitch speaker's radius gives 2 charges per second Activating Main Event, all turned on speakers gain a 24m radius and all turned off speakers a 12m radius (turning on for the duration of Main Event). Within speakers' radius, survivors are deaf and blind. Within speaker's radius, The Trickster moves at 4.6 m/s | 115%, and throw blades tremendously quicker, but don't have infinite blade anymore, but he has a 45% faster reloading speed. Outside of this radius, it only has the following buff : The Trickster moves at 4.5 m/s | 112.5%, and throw blades moderately quicker, and has a 30% faster reloading speed Trickster doesn't have cooldown for missing blades or making survivors lose a health state. Main Event has a duration of 0.2 second by charges. When Main Event is ready, you loses a charges each 0.4 second until you activate it. Ok, let me recap, that was a long one : There are speakers on the map, that survivors can turn off with cooldown represented by electrification. They can be turned on again automatically after a while or manualy by the Trickster. Being within Speaker's radius will bring some debuffs to the survivors and some buff to the killer. Some speakers are special and contribute to craziness, craziness bringing stronger debuffs to survivors and allows the killer to use Main Event. Main Event is a deadly power allowing the Trickster to get fast downs, but it doesn't last forever, and more he waits before using it, the less strong it becomes. This is maybe the most confusing idea I got so far, so tell me if you need further explanation. But to resume : it still has blades, but kinda weaker. He has passive slowdown, and several bonuses to him / maluses to survivors with speakers. Main Event is stronger but can be prevented. An additionnal effect is that with these 3 things : laceration / craziness / electrification, the HUD will be way more funky. I don't know if it's a good thing, but portraits will be cooler.
Thank you for taking the time to share your ideas. This is a really thorough rework concept, if I've missed anything I apologise. Starting with the base-kit 'Trick Blades' addon. I find it interesting that you included this idea. It's something that many players have suggested over the years as many find them fun to play around with. Further, having 'Trick Blades' adds to the killers title as 'The Trickster'. I'd opted to not include this as a feature and even reworked the Trick Blades add-on as I think it's quite unfun to play against. With that said the limits you placed on the rebounding knives would do a great deal to make them less frustrating to play against, even offering some counter-play from the survivors side. I'm not too sure if it would be easy to avoid these rebounding knives or not as a survivor. Regardless I like the idea of offering up some counter to this add-on, thereby making it a base-kit addition a more viable option. As for the Laceration mending, this is something that I think another person had also suggested. I like the idea that in order for a survivor to undo chase progress they would have to commit a certain amount of time. It would make losing/dropping a chase as The Trickster less punishing as landing even a few knives would have some kind of reward. Currently landing any amount of knives that doesn't eventually take a health state is pointless. Implementing a unique form of 'Mending' to this killers power could make things more interesting overall. Finally, the speakers system is really cool but I fear that adding it to The Trickster may make his power too complicated. In any match with this killer, survivors would be contending with Knife Throwing, the new 'Trick Blade' base-kit adjustment and potentially mending Laceration during a match. The new speakers system adds a new source of slowdown in the form of a secondary objective and two new status effects for survivors to contend with. Further the presence of speakers alters The Tricksters chase power even further, something players may struggle to consider and apply mid-chase. I think that all these ideas individually are really awesome. My only concern is that put all together they may make for an overwhelmingly complicated killer. This would perhaps be manageable for experienced players but would probably turn this killer into a noob stomper. Honestly I think that the speakers system, with some other additions, could be the start of an entirely new killer power. I think there are some really cool and unique aspects to the power such as having to follow the particular cable in order to shutdown a speaker. This would make the slowdown gameplay more than just run to environmental object and perform interaction for x seconds. Instead players would need to carefully follow the cables path all while avoiding the killer who may be nearby. It's these aspects that I think could be really fun to play around with, I'm just not sure that adding all of them to a single killer would the way to go about it. Do you think that adding all of these additions may be too much or that it's the right level of complex?
@@DBDBalanceBeyond I bought Trickster recently, and now I understand better his power. So yeah, my original speaker idea would be cool, but it would Just make a second Skull Merchant, a mess Killer that has too man things going around to understand anything. Even if I do have experience on DBD, I still get rolled by Skull Merchants because they suddenly become Undetectable, they are at a higher Movement speed and because you can't loop with a drone nearby. The drone is already pretty strong, injuring you and hindering you, Undetectable when ever you want without any kind of slowdown too, and haste buffs can really mess with your perception, now put all that in a single killer and you just can't follow the course of action. I need to be lighter, really lighter with its power. I wrote that a night, and the following day I was just hoping no one would ever read that :) So, with my new knowledge and a sick hate of Skull Merchant, let's change all that ! Tricky Blades are nice, but yeah The Trickster is already a killer that can feel a bit unfair, without any way to dodge, so this would only increase that feeling. I think almost perfect accuracy is good enough to have a high skill expression. Woanding care timer though seems fair to me. Sometimes I snipe Survivors, getting 2 or 3 blades, but by the time I catch up with them all has disappeared, and it really feels like you're not a range killer. So I think we should keep that. Survivors can still get rid of that, even mid chase if they are giga chad, but it would still be fair and your power will feel way more rewarding. However, as speaker would already slowdown the game by alot, I would decreare the time to only a second. Survivors would really easily get rid of laceration, but for that they would need to stop, you no longer can hold W while getting rid of Trickster's power. The combo idea is still cool, and I find numbers to align perfectly. Let's keep that. Now for speakers. I really think speakers are a cool idea, but if I want to keep them, I have to make every thing else way simpler. The Trickster is 115% Movement speed, and has 40 blades. He has a 24 metres Terror Radius and a 32 metres lullaby. He still has the little trick cooldown when he injures a Survivor with his power, as long as full stach STBFL, but it's only slowing him down by the aiming speed, rewarding him for using his M2 instead of M1. This would just ensure that he can't camp anymore by just killing both rescuing and rescued survivors really fast. I would however remove the missing cooldown. Trust me you already have few blades, and missing is already really punishing, both by losing blades and by slowing you down by aiming. I thought it was cool, but then I also thought about beginners because I was beginning myself, and it would be really punis in for them. You already not gain a lot by using your power instead of a M1, it would just become more punishing than rewarding for them. Now for speakers. Survivors don't hear Trickster's lullaby when they are within 16 metres of an active speaker. Survivors Can disable them without any slowdown or weird Status Effect simply by following the wires and turning off the battery. The speakers emit a Trickster's song within these 16 metres, informing survivors that they are active. Every 30 seconds, a random Speaker automatically turn on, and the Trickster can also turn them on manually. The Trickster can activateur a Special song on 2 different speakers at a time. The song emitted by the speaker wont change, but survivors would slowly become crazy. After 30 seconds, they become fully crazy and start singing the song too, making them easier to track. The craziness would slowly decrease, taking also 30 seconds outside of the speakers radius Craziness would enhance Trickster by feeling popular, and he get a special state : Main Event. Main Event requires 100 charges to activate. Becoming crazy gives instantly 30 charges. Each crazy Survivor grants a charge per second when they are within a speaker radius. Each crazy Survivor grants 2 charges per second when they are within the radius of a speaker emmiting a special song. When Main Event is charged, it starts to decharge at a pace of 4 charges per second. Once activated, Main Event lasts for 0.1 second per charge While in Main Event, the Trickster cannot kick pallets, vault windows or interactif with anything. He would walk at 110% movement speed and throw a lot of blades really fast, he would also have infinite blades. While in main event, The Trickster doesn't suffer from the Cool-down after injuring a Survivor. Being within an active speaker radius while Main Event is occuring would give Survivors the Deaf Status Effect (it is already a real Status Effect, only used by a weird Hag Add-on, Knockout and Flashbangs (also by unused Fisecrakers Add-ons) Is it simpler this way ? Does it still need modification ? I may have complexify it by describing why I'm doing it, should I redact a simples version ? Let me summarize : Accuracy with blades Short "mending" to get rid of Laceration Injuring or downing = little trick cooldown Hitting combo blades increases the amount of laceration applied : 1 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 -> 1.4 -> 1.5, capped at 1.5 7 speakers spawn throughout the environ ment near each ginerator Survivors can turn them off Trickster can turn them on They automaticadly get turned on after a while Being within a normal speaker radius removes the lullaby Trickster can remotely turn speakers onto special speaker This increases craziness of survivors, filling Main Event Main Event is really deadly because the Trickster is now fast During Main Event, active speakers deafen Survivors
@@antoninbertin-denis9545 Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. I very much like this version of the speakers system, it's more streamlined whilst still adding to the gameplay. It adds an extra form of slowdown that I think would be interesting to play around with, especially if you're tracking a cable while in proximity to The Trickster. Further, the idea that Survivors would hum a tune after going 'Crazy' would really add to the atmosphere, the idea being that The Entity is enhancing The Tricksters capabilities in some way. I think that if something like this were ever to be added to the game the biggest struggle would be with the map design. Some maps are stacked on top of themselves and this can create really strange interactions. Think of the old Skull Merchant drones and maps like Midwich Elementary School. This is certainly not a problem with the speakers concept, just something that would have to be considered if it were ever added. Would cables be able to move between floors and would speakers affect survivors at different elevations? I'm not too sure how that could work out but it's at least fun to think about.
@@DBDBalanceBeyond Yes I definitely see the issue here. As Midwich can already be hard to navigate through, I think Speakers should only spawn in the same floor and affect the same floor. We just need to register hills as the same floor as ground to avoid other issue and this could add some interessing counter play without having to do a lot of back and forth for disabling Speakers in different floors, making them turning on few time after you get to your Gen...
Wdym he can't compete with other ranged killers? He is has the strongest chase power of them all, being if you are in the open you are essentially dead.
Thank you for leaving your feedback. The focus with these changes was on making him more fun to play against. These aspects of his power currently are what make him so unpopular to play against. Further, the added threat of a 'Miss-Streak' cooldown is intended to put a focus on accuracy and making continuous accurate hits more satisfying. Whether these aspects would make The Trickster generally un-fun to play is something we couldn't know without testing. I'd be curious to hear if you think there are other ways that could make this killer more fun or if you think that his design is fine in its current form.
@@DBDBalanceBeyond If I would do something for the survivors I would probably make it so he can't eat through health states off a hook. Give the unhooked survivor a knife grace period. Making changes for the killer I would make laceration not decay on its own. Since it doesn't make sense the survivors magically become healed of knife wounds. Survivors would have to do a mending animation and the time it takes is based on laceration stacks. Also probably just let him activate the main event whenever, or at least increase the time you get to use it. I think this would allow survivors to make risky laceration mending plays. Being able to buy enough time to mend when they still have lower stacks. This would also let the Trickster be rewarded more for each knife hit and keep the pressure on difficult maps. You just simply can't give him cooldowns on missing knives. As soon as you started throwing knives at a survivor, they would just spin around and you'd have to M1 them. Which already happens now and isn't fun because no one wants to M1 as Trickster. And giving him cooldowns on taking health states would nerf him to the ground because probably his greatest strength is his ability to eat through health states. You don't need a play test to know cooldowns on missing knives AND hitting knives would feel terrible.
@@MorticusKhan Thank you for taking the time to respond. I find the idea of mending Laceration interesting as a potential slowdown. However, depending on how it's implemented it sounds like a Survivor may be able to undo a certain amount of progress mid-chase. Is this how you envisioned the system working and if so, do you think that it could lead to frustration as a killer? The introduction of a cool-down after missing a number of knives would certainly make close range scenarios more difficult for a Trickster but I had imagined that taking the time to aim would reduce the efficacy of survivors spinning, similar to how it works now. Further the introduction of a cool-down after taking a health state would certainly be nerf in a vacuum. However, the idea was that alongside buffs such as a potential '4 blade injury', The Trickster would be more in-line with other killers who all have post hit cooldowns. Do you think these buffs would be enough to compensate for the cooldowns in the concept, or that cooldowns fundamentally don't work with this power? I find discussing oddities such as this killers lack of cooldowns interesting, given how unique it is compared to other killers.
I will be very honest, trickster as is currently is not really great, and a shit ton of these changes increase the skill ceiling to such an absurd level, that players picking trickster up would immediatly drop him, however the changes shouldn't really lie in trickster power itself, but the add-ons where you can only ever consider taking the movement speed ones, trick blades, diamond cufflinks, bloody loa or if you're brave the Iridescent photo card. The changes he should be more solely on Main Event and add-ons, because these are what make trickster lacking in variability and learning curve.
Thank you for taking the time to share your ideas. The goal with this rework was to increase the skill ceiling of this killer. Do you think that any changes could be made to this concept in order to make it more palatable or that the Blade Throwing should simply not be modified? Also I agree that the Main Event and Add-ons are sources of problems within this killers design. Do you agree/disagree with any of the changes I proposed for these aspects of the power and if so why? I'm always interested in discussing these sorts of things, hence why I make these videos.
You cant balance dbd without making one side stronger than the other its a 4v1 and the killer is supposed to be the power role and survivors are supposed to be the weaker side
I cant believe that content this quality has only 250 views. Feels almost illegal because this man cooked
I found him from his newest nemis video and he is still cooking btw
You cooked so hard. Its impossible to tell how well these changes would feel without testing but i think its already infinitely better than the state he is in right now. At the moment he feels terrible to play as and against, and these changes would fix those alot. The cooldown when damaging a survivor for a healthstate is also a perfect solution to how hard Trickster can camp hooks, but also allows him to carry more knives because he won't be able to camp effectively.
Thank you very much for the supportive feedback. I saw the cool-down mainly as a way to reduce frustrations in chase, reducing the efficacy of camping was a nice by-product of the suggested change. That said it is also an important aspect to consider, given how effective this killer can be when camping. I see camping as an issue to be solved separately from Killer changes, but when solution overlap it's always a nice bonus.
I would love this update. My favorite thing to do against trickster, bubba and nurse is to use lockers skillfully to dodge their power. Currently, main event is hard to counter with lockers. The old one and your suggested one is great. It also gives his old counter back (los blocker loops) since now he is 4.6 and can catch up to you much easier.
I've been maining the Trickster since I first started playing DBD back in August of 2021. He's my favorite killer in terms of lore, design, and gameplay. Unfortunately, I feel like his most recent rework failed to solve the issue of making him feel more rewarding to play while also making him less frustrating for the survivors to play against.
I think all of these changes that you've suggested make Trickster seem like an actual killer now and I really hope BHVR sees this and implements some of these changes into the game.
These changes are so good that I trust you to rework Clown. Honestly I really respect that you’re able to analyze the core frustrating aspects of the Trickster while still adhering to pre established characteristics.
Thank you for your feedback, it means a lot. For the moment I think that The Clown is in a good position. Given the round of changes being made to his kit in the next patch I'd rather wait and see how his balance plays out before committing to making a video on him. That said, I do think his add-ons are in need of some changes based on their balance and repeating effects.
i expected a lot more subsrivers for such well made video. keep up the good work
I absolutely love the ideas! The addons give a lot of variation in playstyle but some of the lower rarity ones may be a bit too strong imo. Rewarding accuracy is something I think this dude needs, but the system is also decently forgiving which I think is good. 4 knives missed stunning you might be a little, but thats just my thoughts. I think you did a wonderful job all in all and appreciate the effort
Thank you for the supportive feedback. Which add-ons do you think would be a problem in particular? I'm always interested to hear what others think.
@@DBDBalanceBeyond most of them are fine, melodious murder seems really strong, it used to be an iridescent addon but now its green. the extra knives on bloody boa seem like a little much but in actual gameplay i think they might be okay? cut thru single seems OP especially when paired with the longer mending addon
@@t8ert0t32 Interesting points. I figured adding the Death Throes Compilation effect to a rare add-on would be fair, given how it wasn't considered 'Iridescent worthy' previously. However, with the increased carry amount it may be a little much. Perhaps being made Very-rare/Purple would be a suitable middle ground. Regarding the Bloody Boa I figured that given The Trickster isn't as powerful as The Huntress he should have to reload less often, however, combining with Melodious Murder could be potentially too much. As for Cut Thru U, I figured that in order for a player to get value they would need to injure a Survivor and then drop chase. 'Hit 'n' Run' is usually only a strategy employed by stealth killers, giving that potential to some other killers may allow for a different play-style, especially when combined with the Lucky Blade. How powerful it would be is something I think only practical testing could determine, though I find it fun to think about.
Thank you very much for your feedback, I really enjoy discussing these topics and considering different ideas for design changes.
I think the part where trickster does the knife tricks should be only when he downs someone, so he still can’t down 2 surges when they unhook, but he can still feel powerful using his power that only occurs every 30 knives hit, and some knives are even deadlier it will be even more rare, other than that great rework
Thank you for taking the time to leave your feedback. I'm now realising that I should have been clearer when explaining the cooldown aspect of this rework. It wouldn't activate during a Main Event, even when taking a health state. The added cooldown would only occur when taking a health state during the regular Knife Throwing with a focus being on alleviating frustration felt by Survivors.
My idea for reworking Trickster would be mixing some aspects of Huntress with some unique aspects to him along with some QoL changes to make him stronger but, hopefully, less boring to face :
He only holds 30 knifes, but now only needs 3 knifes to injure having a slight longer wind up time to each knife throw. This would give survivors an actual chance to dodge the knifes while making hitting them more satisfying and rewarding. The knifes would hit the same spot on your screen, regardless of which hand he is holding them and the recoil would stiil be gone ( I never understood why throwing knifes had recoil but ok ). The knifes would ricochet once in the environment, to give an actual feeling of ' trickster ' to him. The main event could just be a slight version of current trickster, but with no ricochet, the knifes do half the damage and each consecutive knife hit make main event 0,5 seconds longer with the base duration being 10 seconds. Main Event would need 30 points to get charged, being that hitting consecutives knifes gives more points and I tohe should be able to store main event, but couldn't use it near a hooked survivor ( kinda like Artist ) except when im the End game. And finnaly, he would be 4.4 with a T.R. of 24 meters again. Its not perfect, I know, this would need A LOT of tweaks and changes, but hopefully its a step in the direction of making this killer stronger and more fun to play as and against that he is right now.
Thank you for sharing your ideas. I love your suggestions, putting a focus on slower more accuracy based game-play is something this killer really needs. The focus on rewarding players who take the time to aim or dodge the attacks is something the power currently lacks. Do you think that under your concept his add-ons would need to be adjusted in any way?
@@DBDBalanceBeyond I definitely think that a lot of add-ons would need tweaks and others would need a complete rework, but all I really want for this killer is that his gameplay would focus on proper aiming and precise knifes throws instead of the spray and pray gameplay he has right now.
You’ve gained a sub and I look forward to your idea of a Knight rework
Give this man a like, subscribe and comment for the algorithm rn, this hard work can’t go unnoticed 🗣️
Am late but idea, maybe the main event could give more speed for each knife hit during it? Like, each hit gives 3% and each miss takes away 1%, up to a maximum of 30% haste (maybe)
The other stuff would have to be adjusted accordingly but I wanna see lightspeed trickster lmao
The removal of the bouncy knives is a big hit, in my opinion. It's one of my favorite add-ons in the entire game. What was your reasoning behind reworking it?
The focus with the rework was on slowing the gameplay down and rewarding accuracy. The Trick Blades would be very difficult to use with the added 'Miss Streak' fatigue and lead to the add-on feeling very limited. Further, whilst it's often considered fun to play with I don't think it's very fun to play against. Inherent to the counterplay of a ranged killer is the need to take cover, this is something that the add-on bypasses and can lead to really frustrating gameplay as a survivor. I'd be interested to know if you enjoy playing with or against this add-on more?
I really like this rework idea. The Trickster is maybe the second killer that I hate the most after Skull Merchant (Spoil : I actually only hate 2 killers). I may have dropped a bomb, so I precise that I don't really hate this killer nor the Skull Merchant, but I don't find their gameplay engaging. I have some things in mind, but I don't know how it would work. This actually seems very similar to yours, but with a new power interaction.
First of all, taking him back to 110%, 16m TR (you'll understand why later), 6 blades per health state, 40 blades (more accuracy = less missed blades = less blades needed).
Then, reducing tremendously the inaccuracy. I wouldn't make it 100% precise, just making very slightly more to the left or to the right if the blade is thrown with the left hand or the right hand, to give survivors a way to dodge blade (if it would be 100%, it wouldn't be impossible but still RNG based. Now survivors can do fast right-left movement synchsonised with Trickster's throwing to have actual counter-play, but the killer could still predict that to not make his power useless. I precise that it's a very very subtle inaccuracy)
Then, after making a survivor lose an Health State with blades, you'll still do the little trick animation (I'm a Clown's knifetrick enjoyer), but it will be 32% faster than a hit cooldown (like STBFL full stacked) to reward him for using his power.
Combos are a good idea, and the values are really clean, I would keep that unchange. Just to precise, it would be without pulling down the blades.
I would also make the current trick blade add-on basekit. I think it's pretty fun for killer's side to use, but it could be a bit unfair for survivors, so I'll do the following change :
Blades hit by bouncing only afflict half damage (but keeping the combo system halved down)
Missing 4 blades without pulling down them will make you enter a short stun animation.
Laceration metre will no longer decoy with time. Instead, 20 seconds after the last blade hit, the Laceration would decrease reaching previous laceration level, then you can wound care, taking 2 seconds each, and taking away a Laceration level each. (For example, if you are at 4.6 blades / 6, it would go back to 4/6, and you can wound care 4 times for a total of 8 seconds to reduce Laceration metre to 0.
OK, I think this would already make him better, now the fun part come :
All throughout the environment are scattered 10 speakers. Speakers Will be likely to spawn near generators, and will spawn on high ground spot. If you're within 16 metres of an active speaker :
•You can not hear the Trickster's lullaby, which reach 28 metres.
•You're allowed to wound care 10 seconds later
•It takes 1 more second per wound care
The Trickster will also beneficiate from being within this radius :
•Reloading is 15% faster
•You're allowed to miss one knife per combo
•The blade trick and the miss blades stun are shorten by 8%
Additionaly, you can turn 2 speaker of your choice with high pitch mode on. Survivors in its radius will slowly become crazy, taking 45 seconds. Upon becoming fully crazy, survivors give their location by killer instinct for 3 seconds, and are oblivious for as long as they stay crazy. Additionaly, they can't wound care anymore.
Craziness will disappear if you stay away of speakers' radius for 30 seconds.
While crazy, survivors whistle a song
Survivors can turn off speakers by following their alimentation cable and finding their associated battery, turning it off. This takes 6 seconds, and electrified them. Survivors can get rid off electrification by not working on a gen, a doorswitch, or interacting with battery for 30 seconds. A survivor electrified interacting with a battery will lose a health state.
Every 60 seconds, a speaker will automatically turn back on. Additionaly, The Trickster can interact with them to turn them back on.
Now Main Event :
Main Event needs 100 charges
•Becoming crazy gives 30 charges
•Each crazy survivor staying in a speaker's radius gives 1 charge per second
•Each crazy survivor staying in a high-pitch speaker's radius gives 2 charges per second
Activating Main Event, all turned on speakers gain a 24m radius and all turned off speakers a 12m radius (turning on for the duration of Main Event).
Within speakers' radius, survivors are deaf and blind.
Within speaker's radius, The Trickster moves at 4.6 m/s | 115%, and throw blades tremendously quicker, but don't have infinite blade anymore, but he has a 45% faster reloading speed.
Outside of this radius, it only has the following buff :
The Trickster moves at 4.5 m/s | 112.5%, and throw blades moderately quicker, and has a 30% faster reloading speed
Trickster doesn't have cooldown for missing blades or making survivors lose a health state.
Main Event has a duration of 0.2 second by charges. When Main Event is ready, you loses a charges each 0.4 second until you activate it.
Ok, let me recap, that was a long one : There are speakers on the map, that survivors can turn off with cooldown represented by electrification.
They can be turned on again automatically after a while or manualy by the Trickster.
Being within Speaker's radius will bring some debuffs to the survivors and some buff to the killer.
Some speakers are special and contribute to craziness, craziness bringing stronger debuffs to survivors and allows the killer to use Main Event.
Main Event is a deadly power allowing the Trickster to get fast downs, but it doesn't last forever, and more he waits before using it, the less strong it becomes.
This is maybe the most confusing idea I got so far, so tell me if you need further explanation. But to resume : it still has blades, but kinda weaker. He has passive slowdown, and several bonuses to him / maluses to survivors with speakers. Main Event is stronger but can be prevented.
An additionnal effect is that with these 3 things : laceration / craziness / electrification, the HUD will be way more funky. I don't know if it's a good thing, but portraits will be cooler.
Thank you for taking the time to share your ideas. This is a really thorough rework concept, if I've missed anything I apologise.
Starting with the base-kit 'Trick Blades' addon. I find it interesting that you included this idea. It's something that many players have suggested over the years as many find them fun to play around with. Further, having 'Trick Blades' adds to the killers title as 'The Trickster'. I'd opted to not include this as a feature and even reworked the Trick Blades add-on as I think it's quite unfun to play against. With that said the limits you placed on the rebounding knives would do a great deal to make them less frustrating to play against, even offering some counter-play from the survivors side. I'm not too sure if it would be easy to avoid these rebounding knives or not as a survivor. Regardless I like the idea of offering up some counter to this add-on, thereby making it a base-kit addition a more viable option.
As for the Laceration mending, this is something that I think another person had also suggested. I like the idea that in order for a survivor to undo chase progress they would have to commit a certain amount of time. It would make losing/dropping a chase as The Trickster less punishing as landing even a few knives would have some kind of reward. Currently landing any amount of knives that doesn't eventually take a health state is pointless. Implementing a unique form of 'Mending' to this killers power could make things more interesting overall.
Finally, the speakers system is really cool but I fear that adding it to The Trickster may make his power too complicated. In any match with this killer, survivors would be contending with Knife Throwing, the new 'Trick Blade' base-kit adjustment and potentially mending Laceration during a match. The new speakers system adds a new source of slowdown in the form of a secondary objective and two new status effects for survivors to contend with. Further the presence of speakers alters The Tricksters chase power even further, something players may struggle to consider and apply mid-chase. I think that all these ideas individually are really awesome. My only concern is that put all together they may make for an overwhelmingly complicated killer. This would perhaps be manageable for experienced players but would probably turn this killer into a noob stomper. Honestly I think that the speakers system, with some other additions, could be the start of an entirely new killer power. I think there are some really cool and unique aspects to the power such as having to follow the particular cable in order to shutdown a speaker. This would make the slowdown gameplay more than just run to environmental object and perform interaction for x seconds. Instead players would need to carefully follow the cables path all while avoiding the killer who may be nearby. It's these aspects that I think could be really fun to play around with, I'm just not sure that adding all of them to a single killer would the way to go about it. Do you think that adding all of these additions may be too much or that it's the right level of complex?
@@DBDBalanceBeyond I bought Trickster recently, and now I understand better his power. So yeah, my original speaker idea would be cool, but it would Just make a second Skull Merchant, a mess Killer that has too man things going around to understand anything. Even if I do have experience on DBD, I still get rolled by Skull Merchants because they suddenly become Undetectable, they are at a higher Movement speed and because you can't loop with a drone nearby. The drone is already pretty strong, injuring you and hindering you, Undetectable when ever you want without any kind of slowdown too, and haste buffs can really mess with your perception, now put all that in a single killer and you just can't follow the course of action. I need to be lighter, really lighter with its power. I wrote that a night, and the following day I was just hoping no one would ever read that :)
So, with my new knowledge and a sick hate of Skull Merchant, let's change all that !
Tricky Blades are nice, but yeah The Trickster is already a killer that can feel a bit unfair, without any way to dodge, so this would only increase that feeling. I think almost perfect accuracy is good enough to have a high skill expression.
Woanding care timer though seems fair to me. Sometimes I snipe Survivors, getting 2 or 3 blades, but by the time I catch up with them all has disappeared, and it really feels like you're not a range killer. So I think we should keep that. Survivors can still get rid of that, even mid chase if they are giga chad, but it would still be fair and your power will feel way more rewarding. However, as speaker would already slowdown the game by alot, I would decreare the time to only a second. Survivors would really easily get rid of laceration, but for that they would need to stop, you no longer can hold W while getting rid of Trickster's power.
The combo idea is still cool, and I find numbers to align perfectly. Let's keep that.
Now for speakers. I really think speakers are a cool idea, but if I want to keep them, I have to make every thing else way simpler.
The Trickster is 115% Movement speed, and has 40 blades. He has a 24 metres Terror Radius and a 32 metres lullaby.
He still has the little trick cooldown when he injures a Survivor with his power, as long as full stach STBFL, but it's only slowing him down by the aiming speed, rewarding him for using his M2 instead of M1. This would just ensure that he can't camp anymore by just killing both rescuing and rescued survivors really fast.
I would however remove the missing cooldown. Trust me you already have few blades, and missing is already really punishing, both by losing blades and by slowing you down by aiming. I thought it was cool, but then I also thought about beginners because I was beginning myself, and it would be really punis in for them. You already not gain a lot by using your power instead of a M1, it would just become more punishing than rewarding for them.
Now for speakers.
Survivors don't hear Trickster's lullaby when they are within 16 metres of an active speaker.
Survivors Can disable them without any slowdown or weird Status Effect simply by following the wires and turning off the battery.
The speakers emit a Trickster's song within these 16 metres, informing survivors that they are active.
Every 30 seconds, a random Speaker automatically turn on, and the Trickster can also turn them on manually.
The Trickster can activateur a Special song on 2 different speakers at a time. The song emitted by the speaker wont change, but survivors would slowly become crazy.
After 30 seconds, they become fully crazy and start singing the song too, making them easier to track.
The craziness would slowly decrease, taking also 30 seconds outside of the speakers radius
Craziness would enhance Trickster by feeling popular, and he get a special state : Main Event.
Main Event requires 100 charges to activate.
Becoming crazy gives instantly 30 charges.
Each crazy Survivor grants a charge per second when they are within a speaker radius.
Each crazy Survivor grants 2 charges per second when they are within the radius of a speaker emmiting a special song.
When Main Event is charged, it starts to decharge at a pace of 4 charges per second.
Once activated, Main Event lasts for 0.1 second per charge
While in Main Event, the Trickster cannot kick pallets, vault windows or interactif with anything. He would walk at 110% movement speed and throw a lot of blades really fast, he would also have infinite blades.
While in main event, The Trickster doesn't suffer from the Cool-down after injuring a Survivor.
Being within an active speaker radius while Main Event is occuring would give Survivors the Deaf Status Effect (it is already a real Status Effect, only used by a weird Hag Add-on, Knockout and Flashbangs (also by unused Fisecrakers Add-ons)
Is it simpler this way ? Does it still need modification ? I may have complexify it by describing why I'm doing it, should I redact a simples version ?
Let me summarize :
Accuracy with blades
Short "mending" to get rid of Laceration
Injuring or downing = little trick cooldown
Hitting combo blades increases the amount of laceration applied : 1 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 -> 1.4 -> 1.5, capped at 1.5
7 speakers spawn throughout the environ ment near each ginerator
Survivors can turn them off
Trickster can turn them on
They automaticadly get turned on after a while
Being within a normal speaker radius removes the lullaby
Trickster can remotely turn speakers onto special speaker
This increases craziness of survivors, filling Main Event
Main Event is really deadly because the Trickster is now fast
During Main Event, active speakers deafen Survivors
@@antoninbertin-denis9545 Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. I very much like this version of the speakers system, it's more streamlined whilst still adding to the gameplay. It adds an extra form of slowdown that I think would be interesting to play around with, especially if you're tracking a cable while in proximity to The Trickster. Further, the idea that Survivors would hum a tune after going 'Crazy' would really add to the atmosphere, the idea being that The Entity is enhancing The Tricksters capabilities in some way. I think that if something like this were ever to be added to the game the biggest struggle would be with the map design. Some maps are stacked on top of themselves and this can create really strange interactions. Think of the old Skull Merchant drones and maps like Midwich Elementary School. This is certainly not a problem with the speakers concept, just something that would have to be considered if it were ever added. Would cables be able to move between floors and would speakers affect survivors at different elevations? I'm not too sure how that could work out but it's at least fun to think about.
@@DBDBalanceBeyond Yes I definitely see the issue here. As Midwich can already be hard to navigate through, I think Speakers should only spawn in the same floor and affect the same floor. We just need to register hills as the same floor as ground to avoid other issue and this could add some interessing counter play without having to do a lot of back and forth for disabling Speakers in different floors, making them turning on few time after you get to your Gen...
Wdym he can't compete with other ranged killers? He is has the strongest chase power of them all, being if you are in the open you are essentially dead.
quality, as always
I don't think giving him cooldowns on taking health states and missing knives is making him more fun to play.
Thank you for leaving your feedback. The focus with these changes was on making him more fun to play against. These aspects of his power currently are what make him so unpopular to play against. Further, the added threat of a 'Miss-Streak' cooldown is intended to put a focus on accuracy and making continuous accurate hits more satisfying. Whether these aspects would make The Trickster generally un-fun to play is something we couldn't know without testing. I'd be curious to hear if you think there are other ways that could make this killer more fun or if you think that his design is fine in its current form.
@@DBDBalanceBeyond If I would do something for the survivors I would probably make it so he can't eat through health states off a hook. Give the unhooked survivor a knife grace period.
Making changes for the killer I would make laceration not decay on its own. Since it doesn't make sense the survivors magically become healed of knife wounds. Survivors would have to do a mending animation and the time it takes is based on laceration stacks. Also probably just let him activate the main event whenever, or at least increase the time you get to use it.
I think this would allow survivors to make risky laceration mending plays. Being able to buy enough time to mend when they still have lower stacks. This would also let the Trickster be rewarded more for each knife hit and keep the pressure on difficult maps.
You just simply can't give him cooldowns on missing knives. As soon as you started throwing knives at a survivor, they would just spin around and you'd have to M1 them. Which already happens now and isn't fun because no one wants to M1 as Trickster. And giving him cooldowns on taking health states would nerf him to the ground because probably his greatest strength is his ability to eat through health states. You don't need a play test to know cooldowns on missing knives AND hitting knives would feel terrible.
@@MorticusKhan Thank you for taking the time to respond. I find the idea of mending Laceration interesting as a potential slowdown. However, depending on how it's implemented it sounds like a Survivor may be able to undo a certain amount of progress mid-chase. Is this how you envisioned the system working and if so, do you think that it could lead to frustration as a killer? The introduction of a cool-down after missing a number of knives would certainly make close range scenarios more difficult for a Trickster but I had imagined that taking the time to aim would reduce the efficacy of survivors spinning, similar to how it works now. Further the introduction of a cool-down after taking a health state would certainly be nerf in a vacuum. However, the idea was that alongside buffs such as a potential '4 blade injury', The Trickster would be more in-line with other killers who all have post hit cooldowns. Do you think these buffs would be enough to compensate for the cooldowns in the concept, or that cooldowns fundamentally don't work with this power? I find discussing oddities such as this killers lack of cooldowns interesting, given how unique it is compared to other killers.
I will be very honest, trickster as is currently is not really great, and a shit ton of these changes increase the skill ceiling to such an absurd level, that players picking trickster up would immediatly drop him, however the changes shouldn't really lie in trickster power itself, but the add-ons where you can only ever consider taking the movement speed ones, trick blades, diamond cufflinks, bloody loa or if you're brave the Iridescent photo card. The changes he should be more solely on Main Event and add-ons, because these are what make trickster lacking in variability and learning curve.
Thank you for taking the time to share your ideas. The goal with this rework was to increase the skill ceiling of this killer. Do you think that any changes could be made to this concept in order to make it more palatable or that the Blade Throwing should simply not be modified? Also I agree that the Main Event and Add-ons are sources of problems within this killers design. Do you agree/disagree with any of the changes I proposed for these aspects of the power and if so why? I'm always interested in discussing these sorts of things, hence why I make these videos.
8:50 I’m here brother. On Valentines I was wasting hours on making Overwatch character reworks to show my friends who don’t even care😭🙏
Kinda glazing survivors in the first 30 seconds ngl
You cant balance dbd without making one side stronger than the other its a 4v1 and the killer is supposed to be the power role and survivors are supposed to be the weaker side