My solution to the corgi: destroys only the leftmost consumable for +3 mult. It doesn't require to search for that many consumables and it allows you to keep one for the blind. Basically dagger lite.
Feels more like red card than dagger imo, you only feed it when you have consumables you don't need like how you only feed red card when the pack is a skip anyway
note that in this showcase professor had antisynergy between corgi and constellation. Without constellation you would end with random planet cards to feed Corgi. Also this run Prof had quite weak economy. It is scalable common at expected value +4(+6 with omen) per round. So it need painful drawback (locking consumables transfer from shop to play is fair imo and it is par for red card drawback)
The issue is that the corgi demands you to be established BEFORE you can start scaling. You won’t have an excess of consumables early game to feed it and by midgame it scales way too slowly to be a good scaling solution. Also consider what you lose, access to death cards, gold cards, glass cards. They become unusable if you don’t have a booster pack that shows your deck. You give up so much money and opportunity cost for +4 mult
@@brent7215 same as red card. This is "common $4 scaling mult". It is "workable", but ofc not worth building around. Imo - fair for its price tag. Managable to carry you to ante-8 runs on gold stake if you have econ to support it; but more inconvinient than red card.
@@92thorsteinyeah, but red card costs around $8-12 to scale per round. if on average it takes 2 rerolls to scale corgi, then it takes $11 for the rolls and an additional $6 for the consumables. and then you're *still* down 2 mult compared to the red card. even in red card's worst case scenario where you get 2 mega packs, it's still $1 less expensive AND you get half benefit from the packs.
regarding the espresso, what about not deducting at the boss blind, since you can't skip it? then taking it into the next ante would "cost" less and offset some of the risk of not knowing what tags you'll have. would also help when you find it in the shop before the boss. maybe changing the values would also be necessary, but i think this is a reasonable change to consider for balance :)
Yeah, the change would bring it to 4 fairly long lines of text... the phrasing "Reduces by $X after Small Blind or Big Blind is selected" is (imo) simple enough and in-line with other vanilla joker text. Several other jokers are 4-5 lines, but of course that's not a solid argument on its own :) Also, now that I write it out, maybe a super small tweak to devalue when the blind is selected instead of at end of round might better reflect the idea for the card? If you obtain it mid-round (e.g. by tarot or by Riff Raff if it stays common) then it gets devalued before you have a chance to use it. Compared to devaluing the moment you choose *not* to skip a (skippable) blind. In any case: I really like the idea to provide more incentive/reward to skipping a blind, and I hope that the modders and play-testers find something that works... I'd love to contribute and play-test myself but I can only play on console rn :')
Espresso seems op af. Make it $20 with $5 loss per round. Or make it different in some way. Maybe it could cost $10 as a joker or something as a high up front cost. Skipping isn’t great, but it’s not bad per-say. I think you value not-skipping too highly in your calculations Dr.
@CainGantt What if the effect was slightly tweaked to make the wording simpler: Sell this card to gain $X if the previous blind was skipped Reduces by $X after Small Blind or Big Blind is selected
Corgi could also act like madness, so it gets a flat buff and eats all consumables. That way you don't also have to pay the $6 for cards, it will keep scaling even if it's empty. Though flavortext-wise it's worse.
Toby the corgi made me think of a possible similar effect: "+2 mult for each card sold during a blind" It would be similar because you would be trying to take consumables into the round with you and not use, but it would give you some money as consolation and wouldnt stop you from using them if you wanted, and would also work on jokers. It would have some neat synergies with things that produce consumables and jokers during the round like 8 ball, 6th sense, riff-raff and purple seals. I think it sounds like a blast, but the purple seal synergy seems like it might be too strong, so maybe it wouldn't work :( This definitely wouldn't be a common effect, maybe if it were +1 mult, but that seems terrible unless you already have the synergies which isnt as fun
One of my favourite things about the Ship of Theseus is that there's a natural balance in when the ideal time to pick it up is. Obviously as a scaling joker, earlier is good, but trimming and constructing your deck before picking it up is waaay easier. And the synergy with trading card, sixth sense, hologram, and of course glass cards, all just seem super fun! Scaling by 0.4x feels OP under the right circumstances, but then again glass joker is 0.75x and that's only uncommon. It's definitely harder to delete only glass cards, and having a never ending supply of glass cards AND being able to trigger it by hanging any cards feels like it can snowball fairly quickly, so it really comes down to how often does the inability to remove cards end up being enough of a drawback in a normal run to be a good balancing effect?
maybe instead of start of round dog should eat cards at the end of round, that way you can buy cards and if you dont find use for them in round you feed em to dog
I wanna defend the corgi! Consider the bus: you would be lucky to get 4 mult every round on the bus, and that mult costs you money in the form of hands. As you scale, it’s not possible to play 4 hands for a long time because you are naturally quite strong and you might on average get 2 mult every round. Now the corgi doesn’t care about how many hands you can play, you scale +4 mult either way. Considering the dagger is an uncommon I think it’s a perfectly fine common as is.
one, you can sandbag yourself to grow the bus. +3 mid/late game is still reasonable. two, the hidden cost of "not being able to hold onto Death/Hung Man/emergency Justice" is a pretty big one. three, Dagger can clock in at 6 Mults per round much more easily. -1 Joker slot is a big downside, yes, but you only need Dagger to be so big before you can afford not to grow it. I think Corgi needs to be at least 3 Mults per consumable.
Joker concept idea: See shops when skipping blinds. It can be used two times, then it gets destroyed. Uncommon joker and it costs 6. I think it's an interesting concept for an archetype that's not much explored in the vanilla game.
I also think espresso would be balanced as is if you had to skip TWO times. Maybe could even be $50 at this price. Then the $10 would be interesting into the next Ante.
Idea for a Joker: Perfectionist Rarity:Uncommon Description: Recalculates the hand's score by calculating all mults before all xmults Example: You have in this order: 1 polychrome Lusty Jocker, 1 holografic Ancient joker. You play a flush of polychrome heart cards. This is the result: {[((((((((3m×1.5)+3m)×1.5)+3m)×1.5)+3m)×1.5)+3m)×1.5]×1.5}+10m=99 mults If we have same condition + Perfectionist, this is the result: [(3m×5)+10m]×(1.5)^6=285 mults
Other half-baked ideas: Golden Fleece joker, zodiac jokers, the diver is being used for Hold Your Breath but a joker that weakens cards a rank before scoring, universal monsters beyond the vampire. Ideas this incomplete are cheap but had to put these down. 😊
Eternal “Hold your breath” would go crazy. Also, instead of going back to 0 chips after discard it could lose 40 or 60 chips. I think it would make it more balanced
@Anto-y8s Just no tbh. 20-30 bucks every round with Tempi or Hermit will net you way better value than 3-5 mult per round. So the dog actually made Perkeo weaker. The answer is actually just no.
If I had a nickel for every lovable dog named Toby in a hit indie game I'd have two nickels... Anyway, my suggestion as a way that might help with balancing him would be to just have him get buffed per empty consumable slot when blind is selected. Feel like then it still gives you the option to hold some more valuable consumables you find in the shop and not have them get destroyed, just gets a little less of a buff.
I'd love to see a world record run for ship of theseus. I guess the strat is to use perkeo to copy immolates, and then spam the immolates and let ship of theseus repair the damage, giving us X2 mult and 20$ per immolate. What a cool joker!
I like other commenters' idea that the corgi should eat the consumables at the end of a round, feels like feeding the dog your leftovers. an alternate idea for my beer joker is six pack joker that scales for every 6 consumables you buy? I still like the idea of a joker that scales from selling cards, I feel like a good name/theme could be pawn shop joker.
Joker idea: Fool's Errand Play and discard the specified hand in the same round to generate a The Fool card. Similar to the To-do list but with a bit more difficulty in activating the effect which potentially has a lot more value than $4. I'd love to hear some other suggestions for the criteria to generate a fool card. Was thinking this would be an uncommon but could definitely be a rare with some tweaks
Maybe for the "Hold your Breath" joker instead of discards resetting the chips to 0, it takes away 40 chips so you can balance how you are using your hands and discards to keep it towards the top end of 120 chips. It would be nice if you could have it do -20 but that wouldn't work well on gold stakes only having 2 discards. I think that would make a potentially interesting gameplay loop
I think the whole point is you hold your breath for as long as you can, trying to set a record, but hold it too long and you explode. Your version changes the whole concept where he's breathing in and out. It's no longer "hold your breath"
What if... Stoplight goes 3x, 1.5x, 0x. It either completely throws out your hand like the Eye / the Mouth, or it debuffs all other jokers. We still averages 1.5x but it'll be funnier.
It's really hard to think of any scenario where corgi is good. By the time you'd actually want to buy up consumables that you aren't going to use, you're always at the point in a run where some cheap common joker with a little +mult is no longer worth taking up a slot. And in that best-case scenario for the corgi, it's really hard to imagine a run where fortune teller wouldn't just be objectively better.
I just think that pairs and high cards should be nerfed so they arent the optimal go to strategy for high stakes, youre right farmer would be OP with pair or high card. I think pluto and mercury should both be -5 chips each from what they are now, maybe uranus aswell
pair/high card dominance is a function of held-in-hand effects being too good (both b/c you can keep more cards and you can burn more hands to find your good cards) as well as -1 discard. blue seals obviously, but also gold cards are very good. both of those generate tons of value without taking up joker slots. you can also take random junk for Hologram without being super worried about making straights or whatever. changing blue stake would do a lot (IMO you remove it, push every stake above it down to fill the gap, and then gold stake becomes another layer of increased score requirements, but maybe thunk will have a better idea than that). what I'd really like to see is more viability for multi-hand builds. obelisk being obvious as a way to pivot from hc/pairs into other hands, and constellation rewarding you for taking any planet card, but also more stuff like handbook and eclipse that lend themselves towards not just getting all your scoring from one overleveled hand. the old behavior of to-do list encouraged this, though changing it to reroll at round end was needed since it'd get stuck otherwise. also full house needs help. full house feels like it doesn't have a niche: it's a five card hand that's hard to draw into from two pair (because default 8 hand size), is harder to make than a flush, and doesn't score as much as a straight or 4OAK. there are basically no joker synergies for it other than the ones that already exist for pair, two pair, and 3OAK, all of which are way easier to make and play regularly. flush house is pretty good! but you get there from flushes usually. maybe a wild card buff would make it good with ancient joker or flower pot? idk.
My reasoning is the following: +4 potential mult per round seems feasible and balanced, the problem is the triple cost (rerolling, buying and no deck building). The limited deck building can’t be removed, it’s the whole point of the joker. The price of rerolling is already regulated by vouchers. So dramatically reducing the cost of purchasing consumables is the only thing you can directly address.
The hook sniping the gold card AND the blue seal at 25:45 is diabolical
it's no small feat amassing an audience that'd collaborate on such unique and interesting modded content !
thanks for being cool, professor :)
My solution to the corgi: destroys only the leftmost consumable for +3 mult. It doesn't require to search for that many consumables and it allows you to keep one for the blind. Basically dagger lite.
Feels more like red card than dagger imo, you only feed it when you have consumables you don't need like how you only feed red card when the pack is a skip anyway
note that in this showcase professor had antisynergy between corgi and constellation. Without constellation you would end with random planet cards to feed Corgi.
Also this run Prof had quite weak economy.
It is scalable common at expected value +4(+6 with omen) per round. So it need painful drawback (locking consumables transfer from shop to play is fair imo and it is par for red card drawback)
The issue is that the corgi demands you to be established BEFORE you can start scaling. You won’t have an excess of consumables early game to feed it and by midgame it scales way too slowly to be a good scaling solution. Also consider what you lose, access to death cards, gold cards, glass cards. They become unusable if you don’t have a booster pack that shows your deck. You give up so much money and opportunity cost for +4 mult
@@brent7215 same as red card. This is "common $4 scaling mult".
It is "workable", but ofc not worth building around.
Imo - fair for its price tag.
Managable to carry you to ante-8 runs on gold stake if you have econ to support it; but more inconvinient than red card.
@@92thorsteinyeah, but red card costs around $8-12 to scale per round. if on average it takes 2 rerolls to scale corgi, then it takes $11 for the rolls and an additional $6 for the consumables. and then you're *still* down 2 mult compared to the red card. even in red card's worst case scenario where you get 2 mega packs, it's still $1 less expensive AND you get half benefit from the packs.
regarding the espresso, what about not deducting at the boss blind, since you can't skip it? then taking it into the next ante would "cost" less and offset some of the risk of not knowing what tags you'll have. would also help when you find it in the shop before the boss. maybe changing the values would also be necessary, but i think this is a reasonable change to consider for balance :)
I’d worry that would be too many words on the card
Edit: but the concept is sound
Yeah, the change would bring it to 4 fairly long lines of text... the phrasing "Reduces by $X after Small Blind or Big Blind is selected" is (imo) simple enough and in-line with other vanilla joker text. Several other jokers are 4-5 lines, but of course that's not a solid argument on its own :)
Also, now that I write it out, maybe a super small tweak to devalue when the blind is selected instead of at end of round might better reflect the idea for the card? If you obtain it mid-round (e.g. by tarot or by Riff Raff if it stays common) then it gets devalued before you have a chance to use it. Compared to devaluing the moment you choose *not* to skip a (skippable) blind.
In any case: I really like the idea to provide more incentive/reward to skipping a blind, and I hope that the modders and play-testers find something that works... I'd love to contribute and play-test myself but I can only play on console rn :')
@@theLastHaruspexthey could just have it say after small or big blind the amount decreases by 10$.
Espresso seems op af. Make it $20 with $5 loss per round. Or make it different in some way. Maybe it could cost $10 as a joker or something as a high up front cost. Skipping isn’t great, but it’s not bad per-say. I think you value not-skipping too highly in your calculations Dr.
@CainGantt
What if the effect was slightly tweaked to make the wording simpler:
Sell this card to gain $X if the previous blind was skipped
Reduces by $X after Small Blind or Big Blind is selected
Corgi could also act like madness, so it gets a flat buff and eats all consumables. That way you don't also have to pay the $6 for cards, it will keep scaling even if it's empty. Though flavortext-wise it's worse.
i really like this implementation
13:40 “this seems rough.” Well yeah, he’s a dog
Ship of Theseus would work great with Hologram.
the ship + glass cards seems insane
AND YOU ACTUALLY WANT DICE WITH GLASS NOW! 😮
Toby the corgi made me think of a possible similar effect:
"+2 mult for each card sold during a blind"
It would be similar because you would be trying to take consumables into the round with you and not use, but it would give you some money as consolation and wouldnt stop you from using them if you wanted, and would also work on jokers. It would have some neat synergies with things that produce consumables and jokers during the round like 8 ball, 6th sense, riff-raff and purple seals. I think it sounds like a blast, but the purple seal synergy seems like it might be too strong, so maybe it wouldn't work :(
This definitely wouldn't be a common effect, maybe if it were +1 mult, but that seems terrible unless you already have the synergies which isnt as fun
One of my favourite things about the Ship of Theseus is that there's a natural balance in when the ideal time to pick it up is. Obviously as a scaling joker, earlier is good, but trimming and constructing your deck before picking it up is waaay easier. And the synergy with trading card, sixth sense, hologram, and of course glass cards, all just seem super fun!
Scaling by 0.4x feels OP under the right circumstances, but then again glass joker is 0.75x and that's only uncommon. It's definitely harder to delete only glass cards, and having a never ending supply of glass cards AND being able to trigger it by hanging any cards feels like it can snowball fairly quickly, so it really comes down to how often does the inability to remove cards end up being enough of a drawback in a normal run to be a good balancing effect?
really wanna try it with double dice and glass joker hahahah
SHIP OF THESUS AND HOLOGRAM SYNERGY
YOU HAVE TO DO IT DOC! IT'LL BE INCREDIBLE!!!!!
maybe instead of start of round dog should eat cards at the end of round, that way you can buy cards and if you dont find use for them in round you feed em to dog
I always give my corgi leftovers
Ah the classic Ectoplasm to pick up Juggler move
I wanna defend the corgi! Consider the bus: you would be lucky to get 4 mult every round on the bus, and that mult costs you money in the form of hands. As you scale, it’s not possible to play 4 hands for a long time because you are naturally quite strong and you might on average get 2 mult every round. Now the corgi doesn’t care about how many hands you can play, you scale +4 mult either way. Considering the dagger is an uncommon I think it’s a perfectly fine common as is.
one, you can sandbag yourself to grow the bus. +3 mid/late game is still reasonable.
two, the hidden cost of "not being able to hold onto Death/Hung Man/emergency Justice" is a pretty big one.
three, Dagger can clock in at 6 Mults per round much more easily. -1 Joker slot is a big downside, yes, but you only need Dagger to be so big before you can afford not to grow it.
I think Corgi needs to be at least 3 Mults per consumable.
Joker concept idea: See shops when skipping blinds. It can be used two times, then it gets destroyed. Uncommon joker and it costs 6. I think it's an interesting concept for an archetype that's not much explored in the vanilla game.
That sweater is incredible. I wish it were real and I’d buy it in an instant 😂
for reallll BU merch when???
I also think espresso would be balanced as is if you had to skip TWO times. Maybe could even be $50 at this price. Then the $10 would be interesting into the next Ante.
Ship of Theseus WR Balatro Science when?
Idea for a Joker:
Perfectionist
Rarity:Uncommon
Description:
Recalculates the hand's score by calculating all mults before all xmults
Example:
You have in this order:
1 polychrome Lusty Jocker, 1 holografic Ancient joker.
You play a flush of polychrome heart cards.
This is the result:
{[((((((((3m×1.5)+3m)×1.5)+3m)×1.5)+3m)×1.5)+3m)×1.5]×1.5}+10m=99 mults
If we have same condition + Perfectionist,
this is the result:
[(3m×5)+10m]×(1.5)^6=285 mults
Making a new destroy effect for the corgi card eating and have it not be bite marks seems like a missed opportunity.
Corgi suggestion: Make it uncommon and scale xMult instead of +mult
Other half-baked ideas: Golden Fleece joker, zodiac jokers, the diver is being used for Hold Your Breath but a joker that weakens cards a rank before scoring, universal monsters beyond the vampire. Ideas this incomplete are cheap but had to put these down. 😊
Eternal “Hold your breath” would go crazy. Also, instead of going back to 0 chips after discard it could lose 40 or 60 chips. I think it would make it more balanced
Like Food Jokers and Consumable Jokers (Luchador, Invisible), Hold your Breath cannot have an Eternal Sticker.
Dog has INSANE perkeo synnergy!!
Yes and no
That would be a pretty sad use of Perkeo
@Anto-y8s Just no tbh. 20-30 bucks every round with Tempi or Hermit will net you way better value than 3-5 mult per round. So the dog actually made Perkeo weaker. The answer is actually just no.
@@jonhsmith8238 its what i wanted to say actually
If I had a nickel for every lovable dog named Toby in a hit indie game I'd have two nickels...
Anyway, my suggestion as a way that might help with balancing him would be to just have him get buffed per empty consumable slot when blind is selected. Feel like then it still gives you the option to hold some more valuable consumables you find in the shop and not have them get destroyed, just gets a little less of a buff.
Corgi could maybe function like a plus mult version campfire: +2m when selling comsumables (excluding jokers), and doesn't reset after boss.
I'd love to see a world record run for ship of theseus. I guess the strat is to use perkeo to copy immolates, and then spam the immolates and let ship of theseus repair the damage, giving us X2 mult and 20$ per immolate.
What a cool joker!
what about a light beer joker? whenever you sell a consumable card this joker gains +6 chips
I like other commenters' idea that the corgi should eat the consumables at the end of a round, feels like feeding the dog your leftovers.
an alternate idea for my beer joker is six pack joker that scales for every 6 consumables you buy? I still like the idea of a joker that scales from selling cards, I feel like a good name/theme could be pawn shop joker.
Maybe the corki could eat consumables at the end of the round before blue seals activates
Joker idea: Fool's Errand
Play and discard the specified hand in the same round to generate a The Fool card.
Similar to the To-do list but with a bit more difficulty in activating the effect which potentially has a lot more value than $4. I'd love to hear some other suggestions for the criteria to generate a fool card. Was thinking this would be an uncommon but could definitely be a rare with some tweaks
Maybe for the "Hold your Breath" joker instead of discards resetting the chips to 0, it takes away 40 chips so you can balance how you are using your hands and discards to keep it towards the top end of 120 chips. It would be nice if you could have it do -20 but that wouldn't work well on gold stakes only having 2 discards. I think that would make a potentially interesting gameplay loop
I think the whole point is you hold your breath for as long as you can, trying to set a record, but hold it too long and you explode. Your version changes the whole concept where he's breathing in and out. It's no longer "hold your breath"
What if...
Stoplight goes 3x, 1.5x, 0x. It either completely throws out your hand like the Eye / the Mouth, or it debuffs all other jokers.
We still averages 1.5x but it'll be funnier.
Idea for scaling wild card joker: gain +2 mult when a wild card is used to score a hand containing flush
Can we do a glass Ship of Theseus run ?
It's really hard to think of any scenario where corgi is good. By the time you'd actually want to buy up consumables that you aren't going to use, you're always at the point in a run where some cheap common joker with a little +mult is no longer worth taking up a slot. And in that best-case scenario for the corgi, it's really hard to imagine a run where fortune teller wouldn't just be objectively better.
I just think that pairs and high cards should be nerfed so they arent the optimal go to strategy for high stakes, youre right farmer would be OP with pair or high card. I think pluto and mercury should both be -5 chips each from what they are now, maybe uranus aswell
or, you know, rework Blue Stake to not be -1 Discard instead.
@DTMP blue seals still OP, but changing blue stakes would be good also
pair/high card dominance is a function of held-in-hand effects being too good (both b/c you can keep more cards and you can burn more hands to find your good cards) as well as -1 discard. blue seals obviously, but also gold cards are very good. both of those generate tons of value without taking up joker slots. you can also take random junk for Hologram without being super worried about making straights or whatever.
changing blue stake would do a lot (IMO you remove it, push every stake above it down to fill the gap, and then gold stake becomes another layer of increased score requirements, but maybe thunk will have a better idea than that).
what I'd really like to see is more viability for multi-hand builds. obelisk being obvious as a way to pivot from hc/pairs into other hands, and constellation rewarding you for taking any planet card, but also more stuff like handbook and eclipse that lend themselves towards not just getting all your scoring from one overleveled hand. the old behavior of to-do list encouraged this, though changing it to reroll at round end was needed since it'd get stuck otherwise.
also full house needs help. full house feels like it doesn't have a niche: it's a five card hand that's hard to draw into from two pair (because default 8 hand size), is harder to make than a flush, and doesn't score as much as a straight or 4OAK. there are basically no joker synergies for it other than the ones that already exist for pair, two pair, and 3OAK, all of which are way easier to make and play regularly. flush house is pretty good! but you get there from flushes usually. maybe a wild card buff would make it good with ancient joker or flower pot? idk.
@@life-destiny1196 right, I forgot about blue seal too
I have an Idea for a joker what if a lottery ticket was a joker and it had a 1/0 chance for 15 bucks and a one in 25 for 30$
the fact of the matter is if they wanted to make the weakest joke in the game, they should've used a better dog than a corgi
My fix for corgi would be to make all tarot cards in the shop free, or maybe make planet and tarot cards only cost one dollar.
My reasoning is the following: +4 potential mult per round seems feasible and balanced, the problem is the triple cost (rerolling, buying and no deck building). The limited deck building can’t be removed, it’s the whole point of the joker. The price of rerolling is already regulated by vouchers. So dramatically reducing the cost of purchasing consumables is the only thing you can directly address.