I really liked your point about Éowyn being immune to the Witch King's main weapon: terror, since she was already in that place and was dealing with it (in a bad way, admittedly, but resolutely).
@@GirlNextGondor reminds me of the moment in the Hitch-hiker 's Guide movie when Trillian is giving Zaphod a good dose of the empathy gun, and when he shoots her with it she has a line something like "It doesn't work on me, I'm already a woman"
@@GirlNextGondor might be slightly more precise to say that Eowyn was immune from the panic that the terror of the Nazgul inspires, because yes, she was already deep in her despair. But I don’t think she was immune from the terror…despair, after all, is the end point of terror…and I believe she felt it in her very bones, but also that she had accepted the fate she was certain was coming. Amid all that horror, she found the strength to stand up and do her best…that is why she’s a heroine, and one of Tolkien’s best characters.
@@GirlNextGondorI think there’s also something interesting here that they’re both human (or at least he was once), came to the same conclusion, and had wildly different (not great) ways of dealing with it. His, to seek immortality at any cost, hers to run headlong into death for the sake of a scrap of glory. They kinda canceled each other out 😂
As an ex-academic, discovering your work has been great. Tolkien discussions are often plagued by lore pedantry and speculation about authorial intent, and often lack the literary or analytical aspects that should be central. Your videos have lore-discussions, interrogations of intent, but there's also so much attention on theme, motif, focalisation and how these elements build meaning. It's really refreshing to see someone threat Tolkien not as a puzzle or simple escapism, but as literature that has a wealth of things to say about philosophical and existential themes.
"So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom...No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will." Awesome writing!
I was just reading and thinking about this scene again, and I couldn't help but think about how Aragorn and the Dunedain keeping the Shire safe for all those years would allow one to arise from it to take one of their blades avenge their ancestors. Merry is accomplishing what his own ancestors swore to do all those centuries ago when hobbit archers came to help the Dunedain face the armies of Angmar, and it was because of the generosity and humility of the unthanked *and uncomplained* protection from the Dunedain as opposed to the unthanked and complained protection from Gondor that finally slays The Witchking.
I have said a lot, and will continue to say a lot, about the Merry/Aragorn parallels and how awesome their friendship is, but I had NOT thought of this angle before and it is rocking my world a little bit. Particularly when you add the Northern/Southern Dunedain distinction into the mix!
I love how both long and short strings of fate wrap about the Witch King's neck and get pulled tight in this bit. Centuries of overconfidence brought on by a prophecy he really shouldn't've trusted so (elf, wizard, ent, wraith, dwarf, troll?, orc(?!), so many sources of doom!) instruments from long ago much nearer than he thinks, brought there by despair, his own favoured implement. He even _senses_ it, for but a moment, when Eowyn reveals herself, but then just goes "nah, that's too stupid" and fights her anyway, leaning into the circumstances of his own destruction. That Eru's got *quite* the sense of humour.
This is indeed the best tying of multiple threads in the novel, even better than the destruction of the ring itself. The latter was planned in world by the characters - whereas this just happened - and in a way that is both satisfying and in world believable and appropriate. As always, yours is an excellent discussion of the topic. It’s always a joy to see one of your videos. I can put it no better than saying you were meant to publish these, and your audience was meant to view them - and that may be an encouraging thought.
This reminds of one of my favorite little tidbits in LotR - NO ONE is immune to the lure of the One Ring. This is stated over and over and over and over again, my multiple characters, and shown to be true in every instance. But Frodo is the Main Character, the Protagonist, the "chosen one"! He has a Hobbit's innate toughness, and his kind heart and stout will means he can resist the Ring far better than almost anyone else! Surely Frodo will be the first person in history to resist the Ring's influence! But at the end of all things, standing at the edge of the Cracks of Doom, what does he do? He puts the Ring on and announces that he's going to claim It for himself and vie for Mastery against Sauron. NO ONE is immune to the lure of the One Ring. Not even Frodo. Not even Sauron himself. I was so afraid that Peter Jackson was going to screw this scene up and NOT have Frodo give his little "heel turn" speech and put the Ring on, so I was ecstatic that Movie Frodo's invisible struggle against Gollum as they teeter on the cliff's edge above the lava was about as book-accurate as you can get.
Yeah, she was obsessed with dying in battle. It was a possibility. Yeah, she was obsessed with dying in battle. It was almost a possibility. "Cut out the love-story of Aragorn and Eowyn. Aragorn is too old and lordly and grim. ... Probably Eowyn should die to avenge or save Theoden." "But my father added in a hasty scribble the possibility that Aragorn did indeed love Eowyn, and never wedded after her death." HoME Treason of Isengard
Her seeking death actually enabled her to overcome the Witch King's strongest power over men (we all know, her denying to be one was merely a provocation, albeit quite a good one).
One of my favorite moments in Lord of the Rings. Excellent video. I hadn't considered all of these connections. I especially love that the Witch-king was stabbed by a dagger stolen from a Barrow-wight that he himself sent to inhabit the former Cardolan. *cue sad trumpet noise*
Great video! My thought about this scene (besides what you point out) is that the whole fact that the confrontation between the Witch King, Theoden, Eowyn, and Merry even happens is because the almost epic confrontation between Gandalf and the Witch King gets interrupted by the Rohirrim showing up in the nick of time. I think this is one of the greatest shortcomings of the movies--Gandalf could have easily defeated the Witch King, particularly after his power upgrade and greater permission to use all of his powers. But to do so at the gate of Minas Tirith, he would have had to go full unbridled Maia, in front of many onlookers. Both of his previous epic battles, against all nine(!) Nazgul at Amon Sul, and against the Balrog, were conveniently distant from anyone else. so that his true powers weren't revealed. I see this as the doing of Eru, that while Gandalf would have been permitted to battle the Witch King, things unfolded so that he didn't have to.
There is also the fact that both Eowyn and Pippin are from lands Arnor and Gondor had given to their allies before, as a gift. I would say Witch King had many paralels with Morgoth. Both of them had wielded different types of "Grond", fought with foes that were not daunted by their presence and needed to go smash em with their maces as a desperate attempt, ruled lands in North, cold lands where influence of dark magic was at its fullest, they were more like "raw power" in contrast to Sauron who did all calculative stuff background in both of their cases, faced a man and a woman that screwed them by focusing on their crowns/faces and many more.
The brilliance of Tolkien’s literary devices, including the ones you covered here, are one of the virtues of his writings that keep me coming back for more, year after year, decade after decade. And your excellent work in highlighting and dissecting the good professor’s stories is why this channel is the best. Thanks again!
i LOVE this interpretation of the self-fulfilling prophecy of the Witch-King's demise - how his giving it weight and meaning ultimately made him vulnerable to it being fulfilled by Éowyn and Merry. Tolkien does this great weaving of narrative threads into the wonderful tapestry of story that he provides us so well
I was wondering momentarily how the WK knew about the prophesy. Was it maybe something known that predated the Battle of Fornost? But then I remembered the WK probably would have learned Glorfindel's prophesy second-hand, through Earnur himself. (Appendix A does say "These words many remembered" which suggests to me the prophesy did originate there with Glorfindel.) Which led me to wonder: was it a self-fulfilling prophesy? It seems entirely in character for Earnur to have taken Glorfindel's words as yet another challenge to his pride. So perhaps those words were partly responsible for him not being able to resist the provocation of the WK later on, resulting in the last King of Gondor's capture and torment in Minas Morgul. Which in turn might have led to the WK's overconfidence and then doubt at the Battle of Pellenor Fields, which perhaps played a role in his defeat. That's a lot of perhaps's and might's. But would a WK that had never learned of the prophesy in the first place have gotten into the precise situation that got him "killed"? Anyway, it was an amusing train of thought. Ol' Glorfindel playing 7 dimensional oracular chess over here, lol!
He knew of the prophecy. He even says to Eowyn 'thou fool, no living man may hinder me!'. But prophecy in middle-earth is a vague thing. Nobody bases their actons around them because they can be (and usually are) fulfilled by actions that are totally outside of a persons control. Arvedui was called last king of Andor because he would be unless the Dunedain of Gondor chose him as King over Earnil. They chose Earnil and the North kindom ended. Even though it was prophesised Arvedui was unable to escape his fate. Even if Gondor had chosen him as King the prophecy still would have been fulfilled. Arvedui and the Wytch king could only act as they would have without the prophecy. And even without the prophecy the outcome would be the same.
@@franconnorton7087 I had wondered _how_ not _whether_ the WK knew about the prophesy. :P And then, after I came up with an answer to that, how a hypothetical WK who hadn't known of it might have acted differently, perhaps with calamitous results for the good guys.
If you want more deep stuff connecting to this character I'd watch The Red Book channel video about The Mouth Of Sauron. It's actually surprisingly amazing and long and not just about him to which there is actually alot left out from the films etc.
Wow. The shear number of plot threads and personal arcs from throughout the trilogy, plus the long trends of history spanning literal ages of the world from all of thextended sources that all come crashing together in the moment of the Witch King's defeat completely escaped me until you started listing them off...
The thing that bothers me the most about the exclusion of Tom Bombadil in the first movie what is that he gave Merry the dagger specifically created deal with the witch king otherwise that little jab to his calf, may not have weakened him enough for Eowyn to take him out
The way you carry off these incredibly intricate explanations of tolkiens elaborate plot-theme-character interplays like it was something that came up in conversation is really impressive.
Another great video, thanks. I just wanted to comment, as I consider this scene the pivotal moment in the War of the Ring. Yes, there were many factors that lead to Sauron’s defeat, but it cannot be denied that for a few moments, the fate of Middle Earth teetered on a moment of crisis in which (as you so aptly put it), a “desperate, heartbroken woman with a sword” found the courage to face the greatest terror on the battlefield, when all others had fallen or fled. I well remember being so eager to see it on the Big Screen, and being horribly disappointed with what P.J. & Co. did with the scene. Gone was the majestic language (“Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion…”) and in its place was an almost comical fight scene that ended with a tawdry “girl-boss” moment. Eowyn’s heroism was not a result of her being some sort of bad-ass…it was her ability somehow to stand up when faced with certain defeat and death. What a shame we were denied a proper depiction of one of the greatest moments in the legendarium….
Your talent for creating captivating content is truly remarkable. How you skillfully weave together information and descriptions is impressive and admirable. You can uniquely engage viewers like me, leaving us awaiting each new video you produce. Thank you!
The summary of this genuinelly mind-blowing, wide-ranging and all-encompassing video that focuses on the multilayered, deeply interwoven and interconnected relationships between characters, themes, in-world history, context, motivations and storylines from the entire span of the legendarium converging in a single scene and making it possible in its development is that Tolkien was truly a f... genius...I have been intellectually and emotionally involved in his creation for most of my life and have read almost everything he has produced but I'm still amazed after more than 40 years by how a single mind could have produced such an insanely profound and detailed world that seems and feels as true and consistent as the real one - sometimes even more. All this while being a loving father and husband and a successful professor in one of the most prestigious and exclusive universities in the world.
Tom Bombadill isn't upset to have to rescue the Hobbits from the barrow. Given his nature, whatever that is, did he realize he might be sending them to act as agents of Arnor, and the lady who wore the broach he morned, found inside the barrow. The Hobbits had been allied with Arnor when they were gifted The Shire. To Tom that might seem like yesterday. He knew by the time he gave them the swords that the Nazgul were hunting the Hobbits. Was it just coincidence he gave them the only weapon against The Witch King? After the confrontation at Weathertop Aragorn finds the Witch King's cloak with rents from Frodo's sword ( he doesn't have Sting yet ) in the hem. So for all the terror in that encounter Frodo came within a hair's breath of ending the Witch King right there. Thanks Tom!!
Your content is so good, I wish more people had your media literacy and will to learn about narratives, literary devices and writing styles, it would help fantasy fandom take more mature, in-depth approach to the books they enjoy.
This event had to happen where she slayed him as it plays into yey another theme of the Ainulindalë which will now be put into Vairë's endless tapestries of every event in the world set up in The Halls Of Mandos
Loved the video, Lexi. Thanks, for showing us how all those plot threads tie together. Kudos on your choices for artwork in this video. From beginning to end the art captivated me and well illumined your points.
This was as ever brilliant. A personal favourite, I would have started with the cock crowing, with no care for the world. I think it is worth mentioning the professors own other motivation, his desire to improve upon Shakespeare, though he admired the bard he was clear over the weakness In the otherwise brilliant Scottish play, not just in this instance does his desire to have everything work perfectly reward us his readers. Thanks GNG.
I believe that Pippin has a similar moment when he asks Gandalf why he was brought to Minas Tirith, and Gandalf pretty much says, "Multiple reasons," and leaves it at that for the time being. However, I believe that there was one quality that Pippin had that Merry did not in relation to Saruman's words. Pippin is by nature a bright and hopeful spirit while Merry id the more sober responsible counterpart. Thus Pippin is not as daunted internally by Saruman as was Merry.
Pippin probably gets told he's a callow ineffective nuisance at least once a week by various cousins, cousins' gardeners, wizards, rangers, etc. Merry's probably never experienced it before 🤣 apparently it rocked his whole sense of self!
To my knowledge, not much is directly stated about the men who took the rings... but the information we *do* have does *suggest* some possibilites. I'll do some reading and see what comes up! 😁
24:23 I like to think the Witch King actually fought Earnur in single combat though I suspect it was months or even years after the initial capture of the King the whole time he was tortured until one day he was thrown into a pit with a rusty sword and a wooden shield to do the damn thing. That's just how Angmar operates.
Regarding the prophecy, it's curious: Eowyn isn't a man, but she's of the peoples of Man. Merry is a Hobbit, but Hobbits are also a subtype of the peoples of Man. Together, they killed him, despite both being Men in some sense.
I'm so happy to have stumbled on your channel. You will amass a vast following. It is my hope that you steele yourself when this happens and you don't lose that authentic spark you currently exhibit.
6:50 I've been a Merry/Eowyn shipper forever so thank you for treating the material of these two with such loving attention during their moment of greatness omg ☺
the consistent depth and quality of the analysis throughout your videos has rapidly turned this channel into one of my favourites for thematic analysis on youtube (alongside pilgrim's pass who is also a smaller youtube channel in this sort of genre)
Denethor planning to burn Faramir serves an important function in the story - besides ensuring that the Witch-king falls at Eowyn's hand, it gets Gandalf away from the battle in general, so that everyone else has a chance to shine. Otherwise the battle would have less tension, as Gandalf the White would carve through the hosts of Mordor.
Very nice. There are actually two "technicalities" as you put it: Eowyn is not a male and Merry is not one of the Big People, depending on two different definitions of "man," one gender-based and the other race- or species-based. I wonder whether Glorfindel's prophecy went back to some earlier source. Would the witch-king have been so confident of it if he knew of it only via someone else's second- or third-hand report of what Glorfindel said to Earnur? Might it originally have been Sauron's own promise to his servant, maybe said in the process of recruiting him to take a ring in the first place? But I'm veering off into fan fiction here (my own); there are no Tolkien texts to support the idea.
Like Strideo1, I always thought it was Elvish foresight on Glorfindel’s part. It isn’t stated anywhere what he was, half Vanyarin, connected with the Arafinwean branch, a relative of Indis… but he’s another of Tolkien’s Blond People With Premonitions At Actually Useful Times, unlike, say, on death’s door. Other examples are of course Finrod, Idril, and Galadriel. And Glorfindel is one of the Returned, which seems to confer extra powers. (That may be why Namo won’t release Fëanor. Can you imagine a powered-up Fëanor? No wonder his return would herald the end times.)
To both Strideo1 and Anna Feruglio Dal Dan: My doubt was not about whether Glorfindel could receive a true prophecy (from Iluvatar or fate or wherever they come from in Tolkien's world), but why the Witch-king would believe the prophecy it came from (or through) Glorfindel. When your enemy says "this guy is invulnerable" you have to wonder whether he's trying to tempt you into overconfidence.
@@annafdd But if he was brainwashed by Sauron he wouldn't need much _real_ critical thinking to have a knee-jerk suspicion of anything said by Sauron's enemies. (Besides, if only stupid people are taken in by Sauron, how do we account for Celebrimbor accepting his tutorial in ring-making?)
Profound commentary, deep knowledge of remote events, concise descriptive language, synchronizing multiple threads expertly, eloquent narration, high squeaky voice… you’re an Elf. An Elven Bard or Lore Master to be precise. It’s why you use an avatar, because you don’t want anybody to see your pointy ears! I see youuuu…
It is natural that the decisions taken by each character in the plot affect different events and characters. Because the universe created by Tolkien has a deterministic structure just like the real universe we live in. Within the scope of mythology, this deterministic structure is Eru's grand plan woven into the Music of the Ainur and is actually Tolkien's interpretation of the concept of destiny.
Thank you for another brilliant in-depth analysis. Of the various Tolkien-centric channels that I follow, yours is by far the most thoughtful and thought-provoking. And I'm not just saying that because you devoted a whole video to my favourite scene anywhere in fiction (that I know of). One of the flaws in the highly-acclaimed Peter Jackson movies is the loss of this connection between the story and the history of the world, even though he has kept most of the obvious links.
Great tribute. I'd just add, in the movie the prophecy is a "they say" i.e. "the one they say no living man can kill", implying it is common knowledge. Whereas in the book Gandalf veils it, saying only to Denethor: "if words spoken of old be true", etc., after first building up the Witch-King ("spear of terror... shadow of despair"). None of which would exactly be a morale booster, especially to Denethor; it's as if Gandalf is deliberately trying to push him over the edge. Anyway, Eowyn probably doesn't even know about the prophecy (let alone Merry), she has to work it out in the heat of the action, which makes the scene that much stronger.
I absolutely love this scene in the book but I was disappointed that the dialogue was so dumbed down in the Peter Jackson films and also it was obvious that Peter Jackson pretty much just threw up his hands and completely gave up on the idea of accurately portraying Eowyn as Dernhelm. Even the 1980 Rankin Bass animated version of Return of the King has a more accurate portrayal of Dernhelm and the slaying of the Witch King, albeit with some goofy voice acting on the Witch King's part and goofy asides added in for Merry and Pippin (Pippin shouldn't even be there and it's a symptom of the film's severely trunctated version of the story).
They fulfilled their oaths by aiding Aragorn against the Corsairs. Aragorn did not have the authority to hold them longer. Also, bringing an army of undead close to Sauron, also known as the Necomancer, seems like a really bad idea to me.
They were seriously impractical, scaring friend and foe alike. I think Aragorn was quite happy to have them pass on, both for kindly and for practical reasons. Also, they already faltered once. Let them go out on a high note, rather than taking the chance that they get tricked, cajoled, intimidated, or seduced again by Sauron or one of his lieutenants.
I really liked your point about Éowyn being immune to the Witch King's main weapon: terror, since she was already in that place and was dealing with it (in a bad way, admittedly, but resolutely).
WK: did it ever occur to you that NOTHING AWAITS YOUR PATHETIC KIND BUT DECAY AND HORROR
Eowyn: yeah, about 15 times a day, what's your point?
@@GirlNextGondor reminds me of the moment in the Hitch-hiker 's Guide movie when Trillian is giving Zaphod a good dose of the empathy gun, and when he shoots her with it she has a line something like "It doesn't work on me, I'm already a woman"
@@GirlNextGondor might be slightly more precise to say that Eowyn was immune from the panic that the terror of the Nazgul inspires, because yes, she was already deep in her despair. But I don’t think she was immune from the terror…despair, after all, is the end point of terror…and I believe she felt it in her very bones, but also that she had accepted the fate she was certain was coming. Amid all that horror, she found the strength to stand up and do her best…that is why she’s a heroine, and one of Tolkien’s best characters.
@@GirlNextGondor Haha! Love it!
@@GirlNextGondorI think there’s also something interesting here that they’re both human (or at least he was once), came to the same conclusion, and had wildly different (not great) ways of dealing with it. His, to seek immortality at any cost, hers to run headlong into death for the sake of a scrap of glory. They kinda canceled each other out 😂
As an ex-academic, discovering your work has been great. Tolkien discussions are often plagued by lore pedantry and speculation about authorial intent, and often lack the literary or analytical aspects that should be central. Your videos have lore-discussions, interrogations of intent, but there's also so much attention on theme, motif, focalisation and how these elements build meaning. It's really refreshing to see someone threat Tolkien not as a puzzle or simple escapism, but as literature that has a wealth of things to say about philosophical and existential themes.
Very good discussion on girlnextgondor
"So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom...No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will."
Awesome writing!
I was just reading and thinking about this scene again, and I couldn't help but think about how Aragorn and the Dunedain keeping the Shire safe for all those years would allow one to arise from it to take one of their blades avenge their ancestors.
Merry is accomplishing what his own ancestors swore to do all those centuries ago when hobbit archers came to help the Dunedain face the armies of Angmar, and it was because of the generosity and humility of the unthanked *and uncomplained* protection from the Dunedain as opposed to the unthanked and complained protection from Gondor that finally slays The Witchking.
I have said a lot, and will continue to say a lot, about the Merry/Aragorn parallels and how awesome their friendship is, but I had NOT thought of this angle before and it is rocking my world a little bit. Particularly when you add the Northern/Southern Dunedain distinction into the mix!
@@GirlNextGondor cool to know my own angle on things is unique enough to share with others
I cant imagine how devastating it must have been for Theoden to watch his horse die before his own death.
I love how both long and short strings of fate wrap about the Witch King's neck and get pulled tight in this bit. Centuries of overconfidence brought on by a prophecy he really shouldn't've trusted so (elf, wizard, ent, wraith, dwarf, troll?, orc(?!), so many sources of doom!) instruments from long ago much nearer than he thinks, brought there by despair, his own favoured implement. He even _senses_ it, for but a moment, when Eowyn reveals herself, but then just goes "nah, that's too stupid" and fights her anyway, leaning into the circumstances of his own destruction. That Eru's got *quite* the sense of humour.
"I used to think it was too convoluted. Then I took a dagger to the knee."
This is indeed the best tying of multiple threads in the novel, even better than the destruction of the ring itself. The latter was planned in world by the characters - whereas this just happened - and in a way that is both satisfying and in world believable and appropriate.
As always, yours is an excellent discussion of the topic. It’s always a joy to see one of your videos. I can put it no better than saying you were meant to publish these, and your audience was meant to view them - and that may be an encouraging thought.
SURELY the Valar know what they're doing! 😆
Thank you for the encouraging thoughts, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
This reminds of one of my favorite little tidbits in LotR - NO ONE is immune to the lure of the One Ring. This is stated over and over and over and over again, my multiple characters, and shown to be true in every instance. But Frodo is the Main Character, the Protagonist, the "chosen one"! He has a Hobbit's innate toughness, and his kind heart and stout will means he can resist the Ring far better than almost anyone else! Surely Frodo will be the first person in history to resist the Ring's influence!
But at the end of all things, standing at the edge of the Cracks of Doom, what does he do? He puts the Ring on and announces that he's going to claim It for himself and vie for Mastery against Sauron. NO ONE is immune to the lure of the One Ring. Not even Frodo. Not even Sauron himself.
I was so afraid that Peter Jackson was going to screw this scene up and NOT have Frodo give his little "heel turn" speech and put the Ring on, so I was ecstatic that Movie Frodo's invisible struggle against Gollum as they teeter on the cliff's edge above the lava was about as book-accurate as you can get.
Very interesting video.
Also amazingly 28 minutes with only the absolute barest amount of elves and elf discussion? It's a new record!
I must correct this oversight! Nothing but Feanorians for the rest of the quarter! 😆
@@GirlNextGondor A curse upon the Fëanorians! Oh wait, that's quite superfluous, isn't it?
Truly I am always amazed by Tolkien’s magnificent deployment of irony. Maybe my favorite quirk of his writing?
The irony in the Túrin story though... I guess that's why it was his favorite story he wrote over and over.
plot twist: girlnextgondor was eowyn.
I aspire to Eowyn but probably end up more like Ioreth....
@@GirlNextGondorIoreth is one of the most wholesome characters in the series, no shame in that 😄
@@GirlNextGondor *nay, good lass!*
@@GirlNextGondor These analyses are your great deeds, or at least among them, and I am sure their insight will spark more in those who read them.
Wow, you always know how to bring my massive respect for Tolkein's storytelling abilities to all new heights! Thank you for yet another AMAZING video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Love how Eowyn was high key functionally depressed so just went "yeah, nah" to the Witch King's power
Yeah, she was obsessed with dying in battle. It was a possibility. Yeah, she was obsessed with dying in battle. It was almost a possibility. "Cut out the love-story of Aragorn and Eowyn. Aragorn is too old and lordly and grim. ... Probably Eowyn should die to avenge or save Theoden." "But my father added in a hasty scribble the possibility that Aragorn did indeed love Eowyn, and never wedded after her death." HoME Treason of Isengard
Her seeking death actually enabled her to overcome the Witch King's strongest power over men (we all know, her denying to be one was merely a provocation, albeit quite a good one).
Her character arc is so inspiring!
Witch King: "I'm going to kill you."
Eowyn: "Finally, shit."
It connects to Glorfindel's prophecy+curse upon WitchKing as he chased him away toward Angmar once again.
One of my favorite moments in Lord of the Rings. Excellent video. I hadn't considered all of these connections. I especially love that the Witch-king was stabbed by a dagger stolen from a Barrow-wight that he himself sent to inhabit the former Cardolan. *cue sad trumpet noise*
Great video! My thought about this scene (besides what you point out) is that the whole fact that the confrontation between the Witch King, Theoden, Eowyn, and Merry even happens is because the almost epic confrontation between Gandalf and the Witch King gets interrupted by the Rohirrim showing up in the nick of time. I think this is one of the greatest shortcomings of the movies--Gandalf could have easily defeated the Witch King, particularly after his power upgrade and greater permission to use all of his powers. But to do so at the gate of Minas Tirith, he would have had to go full unbridled Maia, in front of many onlookers. Both of his previous epic battles, against all nine(!) Nazgul at Amon Sul, and against the Balrog, were conveniently distant from anyone else. so that his true powers weren't revealed. I see this as the doing of Eru, that while Gandalf would have been permitted to battle the Witch King, things unfolded so that he didn't have to.
Witch-King: If you attack me I'll literally kill you.
Éowyn: You had my curiosity; now you have my attention.
This is so much more than a mere Lore channel.
You're a genuine Tolkien Scholar.
Eowyn's functional depression: "you cant hurt me more than i already am, so screw your powers."
There is also the fact that both Eowyn and Pippin are from lands Arnor and Gondor had given to their allies before, as a gift. I would say Witch King had many paralels with Morgoth. Both of them had wielded different types of "Grond", fought with foes that were not daunted by their presence and needed to go smash em with their maces as a desperate attempt, ruled lands in North, cold lands where influence of dark magic was at its fullest, they were more like "raw power" in contrast to Sauron who did all calculative stuff background in both of their cases, faced a man and a woman that screwed them by focusing on their crowns/faces and many more.
You're so right! One built Angband, the other founded Angmar. Both foremost of their order. Maybe Sauron was playing at controlling his old master...
The brilliance of Tolkien’s literary devices, including the ones you covered here, are one of the virtues of his writings that keep me coming back for more, year after year, decade after decade. And your excellent work in highlighting and dissecting the good professor’s stories is why this channel is the best. Thanks again!
Dear John Ronald Ruel, I know you worked on this for actual DECADES, but HOW THE F-!
Great video! I love how you show all the threads coming together to defeat the Witch King.
Thank you! Cheers!
His ability to weave so many plot threads together is staggering. Your grasp of it is impressive.
i LOVE this interpretation of the self-fulfilling prophecy of the Witch-King's demise - how his giving it weight and meaning ultimately made him vulnerable to it being fulfilled by Éowyn and Merry. Tolkien does this great weaving of narrative threads into the wonderful tapestry of story that he provides us so well
It's impressive how much setup went into defeating the witch king
I was wondering momentarily how the WK knew about the prophesy. Was it maybe something known that predated the Battle of Fornost? But then I remembered the WK probably would have learned Glorfindel's prophesy second-hand, through Earnur himself. (Appendix A does say "These words many remembered" which suggests to me the prophesy did originate there with Glorfindel.)
Which led me to wonder: was it a self-fulfilling prophesy? It seems entirely in character for Earnur to have taken Glorfindel's words as yet another challenge to his pride. So perhaps those words were partly responsible for him not being able to resist the provocation of the WK later on, resulting in the last King of Gondor's capture and torment in Minas Morgul. Which in turn might have led to the WK's overconfidence and then doubt at the Battle of Pellenor Fields, which perhaps played a role in his defeat.
That's a lot of perhaps's and might's. But would a WK that had never learned of the prophesy in the first place have gotten into the precise situation that got him "killed"?
Anyway, it was an amusing train of thought. Ol' Glorfindel playing 7 dimensional oracular chess over here, lol!
He knew of the prophecy. He even says to Eowyn 'thou fool, no living man may hinder me!'. But prophecy in middle-earth is a vague thing. Nobody bases their actons around them because they can be (and usually are) fulfilled by actions that are totally outside of a persons control.
Arvedui was called last king of Andor because he would be unless the Dunedain of Gondor chose him as King over Earnil. They chose Earnil and the North kindom ended. Even though it was prophesised Arvedui was unable to escape his fate. Even if Gondor had chosen him as King the prophecy still would have been fulfilled.
Arvedui and the Wytch king could only act as they would have without the prophecy. And even without the prophecy the outcome would be the same.
@@franconnorton7087 I had wondered _how_ not _whether_ the WK knew about the prophesy. :P And then, after I came up with an answer to that, how a hypothetical WK who hadn't known of it might have acted differently, perhaps with calamitous results for the good guys.
You know there are a lot of Tolkien channels about, but no one comes close to the depth yours has. Amazing.
Oh man, this is why I'm subscribed. So many people just don't understand Eowyn at all, but this is basically a perfect summary.
Wow, that was heavy! Almost as heavy as the Wich Kings Mace hitting that like button!
If you want more deep stuff connecting to this character I'd watch The Red Book channel video about The Mouth Of Sauron. It's actually surprisingly amazing and long and not just about him to which there is actually alot left out from the films etc.
Wow. The shear number of plot threads and personal arcs from throughout the trilogy, plus the long trends of history spanning literal ages of the world from all of thextended sources that all come crashing together in the moment of the Witch King's defeat completely escaped me until you started listing them off...
The thing that bothers me the most about the exclusion of Tom Bombadil in the first movie what is that he gave Merry the dagger specifically created deal with the witch king otherwise that little jab to his calf, may not have weakened him enough for Eowyn to take him out
The way you carry off these incredibly intricate explanations of tolkiens elaborate plot-theme-character interplays like it was something that came up in conversation is really impressive.
One of my favorite scenes :)
Another great video, thanks. I just wanted to comment, as I consider this scene the pivotal moment in the War of the Ring. Yes, there were many factors that lead to Sauron’s defeat, but it cannot be denied that for a few moments, the fate of Middle Earth teetered on a moment of crisis in which (as you so aptly put it), a “desperate, heartbroken woman with a sword” found the courage to face the greatest terror on the battlefield, when all others had fallen or fled. I well remember being so eager to see it on the Big Screen, and being horribly disappointed with what P.J. & Co. did with the scene. Gone was the majestic language (“Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion…”) and in its place was an almost comical fight scene that ended with a tawdry “girl-boss” moment. Eowyn’s heroism was not a result of her being some sort of bad-ass…it was her ability somehow to stand up when faced with certain defeat and death. What a shame we were denied a proper depiction of one of the greatest moments in the legendarium….
Your talent for creating captivating content is truly remarkable. How you skillfully weave together information and descriptions is impressive and admirable. You can uniquely engage viewers like me, leaving us awaiting each new video you produce. Thank you!
The sheer number of connections and allusions here is bewildering 😂
Bless you Lexi! I hope you're faring well and good :)
A GNG day this shall be! I will catch up on the vid as soon as I can.
The summary of this genuinelly mind-blowing, wide-ranging and all-encompassing video that focuses on the multilayered, deeply interwoven and interconnected relationships between characters, themes, in-world history, context, motivations and storylines from the entire span of the legendarium converging in a single scene and making it possible in its development is that Tolkien was truly a f... genius...I have been intellectually and emotionally involved in his creation for most of my life and have read almost everything he has produced but I'm still amazed after more than 40 years by how a single mind could have produced such an insanely profound and detailed world that seems and feels as true and consistent as the real one - sometimes even more. All this while being a loving father and husband and a successful professor in one of the most prestigious and exclusive universities in the world.
Your mastery of the lore is matched only by how soothing you are to listen to. You have a beautiful and calming voice.
One of my favourite UA-camrs covering one of my favourite scenes, enjoyed this a lot 😄
Tom Bombadill isn't upset to have to rescue the Hobbits from the barrow. Given his nature, whatever that is, did he realize he might be sending them to act as agents of Arnor, and the lady who wore the broach he morned, found inside the barrow. The Hobbits had been allied with Arnor when they were gifted The Shire. To Tom that might seem like yesterday. He knew by the time he gave them the swords that the Nazgul were hunting the Hobbits. Was it just coincidence he gave them the only weapon against The Witch King?
After the confrontation at Weathertop Aragorn finds the Witch King's cloak with rents from Frodo's sword ( he doesn't have Sting yet ) in the hem. So for all the terror in that encounter Frodo came within a hair's breath of ending the Witch King right there. Thanks Tom!!
These videos are by far the best studied and written reflections on Tolkien I know.
Your content is so good, I wish more people had your media literacy and will to learn about narratives, literary devices and writing styles, it would help fantasy fandom take more mature, in-depth approach to the books they enjoy.
This was great! A good insight into lore w out getting bogged down in too much explanation. I enjoyed it thoroughly ❤🎉
This event had to happen where she slayed him as it plays into yey another theme of the Ainulindalë which will now be put into Vairë's endless tapestries of every event in the world set up in The Halls Of Mandos
You and The Red Book need to collaborate.
two best Tolkien channels for real
@@TheLastAxeman Same with Tolkien Untangled. CluelessFangirl, MenOfTheWest, Voice Of Geekdom, and many more.❤❤❤❤
Loved the video, Lexi. Thanks, for showing us how all those plot threads tie together.
Kudos on your choices for artwork in this video. From beginning to end the art captivated me and well illumined your points.
Quality discussion yet again, your academic writing style comes through so strong in your script. I love it.
This was as ever brilliant. A personal favourite, I would have started with the cock crowing, with no care for the world. I think it is worth mentioning the professors own other motivation, his desire to improve upon Shakespeare, though he admired the bard he was clear over the weakness In the otherwise brilliant Scottish play, not just in this instance does his desire to have everything work perfectly reward us his readers. Thanks GNG.
One of my favorite scenes from the books!
Ok I was so confused, because I somehow thought Pippin was the one who did the 'rag tag' remark, but it was in fact Merry! Anyway, good video!
I believe that Pippin has a similar moment when he asks Gandalf why he was brought to Minas Tirith, and Gandalf pretty much says, "Multiple reasons," and leaves it at that for the time being. However, I believe that there was one quality that Pippin had that Merry did not in relation to Saruman's words. Pippin is by nature a bright and hopeful spirit while Merry id the more sober responsible counterpart. Thus Pippin is not as daunted internally by Saruman as was Merry.
Pippin probably gets told he's a callow ineffective nuisance at least once a week by various cousins, cousins' gardeners, wizards, rangers, etc. Merry's probably never experienced it before 🤣 apparently it rocked his whole sense of self!
I'd like to learn more about the Nazgul, mainly about the witch king.
What is known about them as men before they became the ring wraiths?
To my knowledge, not much is directly stated about the men who took the rings... but the information we *do* have does *suggest* some possibilites. I'll do some reading and see what comes up! 😁
24:23 I like to think the Witch King actually fought Earnur in single combat though I suspect it was months or even years after the initial capture of the King the whole time he was tortured until one day he was thrown into a pit with a rusty sword and a wooden shield to do the damn thing. That's just how Angmar operates.
Wow! It's been a while, but this video was well worth the wait.😁👍
Just when you had already become comfortable with the sheer genius of Tolkien's storytelling!
I’m so behind! This was spectacular as always! 🥰🥰🥰
Regarding the prophecy, it's curious: Eowyn isn't a man, but she's of the peoples of Man. Merry is a Hobbit, but Hobbits are also a subtype of the peoples of Man. Together, they killed him, despite both being Men in some sense.
New video of you and about such a great topic? Now that's a treat😍
Hope you enjoyed it! 🥰
I love your analyses! I could (and have been) listen to you all day. :)
eowyn been giving queen vibe since day one
Thanks, lexi .. wonderful writing as usual.
Reminds me of the BFME 2 Rise of the Witch-King whenever I hear that prophecy. Awesome
Brilliant stuff Lexi. Thanks for this
Thanks Lexi!
Love your videos. I have an urge to reread now while pathname more attention to all these connections you pointed out.
I always find it funny how good had to cop out with the backstab at this part
Aww yeah, the weekend has truly started!
Great work Lexi
You wove together so much to this event
The swirling of things unresolved from long distant past finally ...
Wow... thanks
You are actually the best lotr Chanel. Thank you for this level of detail and respect for the themes.
Wow, what a deep and insightful analysis! You got a sub from me
Lovely analysis. Thank you.
Great drop! Ive been like, Im on summer break and no GNG?!
I'm so happy to have stumbled on your channel.
You will amass a vast following. It is my hope that you steele yourself when this happens and you don't lose that authentic spark you currently exhibit.
6:50 I've been a Merry/Eowyn shipper forever so thank you for treating the material of these two with such loving attention during their moment of greatness omg ☺
the consistent depth and quality of the analysis throughout your videos has rapidly turned this channel into one of my favourites for thematic analysis on youtube (alongside pilgrim's pass who is also a smaller youtube channel in this sort of genre)
Denethor planning to burn Faramir serves an important function in the story - besides ensuring that the Witch-king falls at Eowyn's hand, it gets Gandalf away from the battle in general, so that everyone else has a chance to shine. Otherwise the battle would have less tension, as Gandalf the White would carve through the hosts of Mordor.
Glorfindel: ... not by the hand of man will he fall.
Earnur: He's right there, and you're not a Man.
Earnur: Do you get what I'm implying here?
Glorfindel: Far off from now is his doom...
Nice work
Very nice. There are actually two "technicalities" as you put it: Eowyn is not a male and Merry is not one of the Big People, depending on two different definitions of "man," one gender-based and the other race- or species-based.
I wonder whether Glorfindel's prophecy went back to some earlier source. Would the witch-king have been so confident of it if he knew of it only via someone else's second- or third-hand report of what Glorfindel said to Earnur? Might it originally have been Sauron's own promise to his servant, maybe said in the process of recruiting him to take a ring in the first place? But I'm veering off into fan fiction here (my own); there are no Tolkien texts to support the idea.
I always just kinda figured Glofindel's nature just gave him some sort of spiritual intuition.
Like Strideo1, I always thought it was Elvish foresight on Glorfindel’s part. It isn’t stated anywhere what he was, half Vanyarin, connected with the Arafinwean branch, a relative of Indis… but he’s another of Tolkien’s Blond People With Premonitions At Actually Useful Times, unlike, say, on death’s door. Other examples are of course Finrod, Idril, and Galadriel. And Glorfindel is one of the Returned, which seems to confer extra powers. (That may be why Namo won’t release Fëanor. Can you imagine a powered-up Fëanor? No wonder his return would herald the end times.)
To both Strideo1 and Anna Feruglio Dal Dan: My doubt was not about whether Glorfindel could receive a true prophecy (from Iluvatar or fate or wherever they come from in Tolkien's world), but why the Witch-king would believe the prophecy it came from (or through) Glorfindel. When your enemy says "this guy is invulnerable" you have to wonder whether he's trying to tempt you into overconfidence.
@@larrykuenning5754 somebody who accepts rings of power from Sauron the Deceiver doesn’t strike me as blessed with the gift of critical thinking much.
@@annafdd But if he was brainwashed by Sauron he wouldn't need much _real_ critical thinking to have a knee-jerk suspicion of anything said by Sauron's enemies. (Besides, if only stupid people are taken in by Sauron, how do we account for Celebrimbor accepting his tutorial in ring-making?)
I used to have this whole scene memorized word for word. Wonder if I can recover that, because listening to this, recall sharpened
Thank you
Eowyn's recovery by way of the love of Faramir is one of the best love stories ever written.
Brilliant as usual! Thank you.
Profound commentary, deep knowledge of remote events, concise descriptive language, synchronizing multiple threads expertly, eloquent narration, high squeaky voice… you’re an Elf. An Elven Bard or Lore Master to be precise. It’s why you use an avatar, because you don’t want anybody to see your pointy ears! I see youuuu…
*reflexively covering my (perfectly normal) ears*
@@GirlNextGondor perfectly normal for which species?
@@istari0 it begged to be asked
It is natural that the decisions taken by each character in the plot affect different events and characters. Because the universe created by Tolkien has a deterministic structure just like the real universe we live in. Within the scope of mythology, this deterministic structure is Eru's grand plan woven into the Music of the Ainur and is actually Tolkien's interpretation of the concept of destiny.
You have one of the best channels for Arda lore. I thoroughly enjoy your Essays. Thanks! ...I think the Witch King is just miss understood 😂😂. 🤘😁🖖🇨🇦
Thank you for another brilliant in-depth analysis. Of the various Tolkien-centric channels that I follow, yours is by far the most thoughtful and thought-provoking.
And I'm not just saying that because you devoted a whole video to my favourite scene anywhere in fiction (that I know of).
One of the flaws in the highly-acclaimed Peter Jackson movies is the loss of this connection between the story and the history of the world, even though he has kept most of the obvious links.
So, *Aragorn* would’ve, most likely, just fallen off dead if he had faced the *Witch-King* in the Pelennor fields.
That's it! I'm reading LotR again!
I have exams tomorrow and just when I am about to sleep, this video drops. I will think about it all night acting I am asleep. 😑
Screw your future! Tolkien is calling.
Yay 🎉🎉🎉 I just checked in to see if you'd uploaded anything today (this is usually the time you do).
Ahh you know me so well! 😅
@@GirlNextGondor more like I'm an addict 😅😅😂
Great tribute. I'd just add, in the movie the prophecy is a "they say" i.e. "the one they say no living man can kill", implying it is common knowledge. Whereas in the book Gandalf veils it, saying only to Denethor: "if words spoken of old be true", etc., after first building up the Witch-King ("spear of terror... shadow of despair"). None of which would exactly be a morale booster, especially to Denethor; it's as if Gandalf is deliberately trying to push him over the edge.
Anyway, Eowyn probably doesn't even know about the prophecy (let alone Merry), she has to work it out in the heat of the action, which makes the scene that much stronger.
I find it sweet that Merry wanted to go to Minas Tirith to protect Pippin, but in the end it was Pippin who saved Merry.
Nice episode!
I absolutely love this scene in the book but I was disappointed that the dialogue was so dumbed down in the Peter Jackson films and also it was obvious that Peter Jackson pretty much just threw up his hands and completely gave up on the idea of accurately portraying Eowyn as Dernhelm. Even the 1980 Rankin Bass animated version of Return of the King has a more accurate portrayal of Dernhelm and the slaying of the Witch King, albeit with some goofy voice acting on the Witch King's part and goofy asides added in for Merry and Pippin (Pippin shouldn't even be there and it's a symptom of the film's severely trunctated version of the story).
Also that comically large flail that he is obviously struggling to use.
Put them together and you get a bunch of films that complement eachother and cover for eachothers weaknesses with their strengths ❤❤❤
Awesome reports you give.
A topic I think would be interesting would be why Aragorn dismissed the Oathbreakers before the final defeat of Sauron?
In the books if I'm not mistaken, he doesn't, he actually keeps them around for quite some time.
They fulfilled their oaths by aiding Aragorn against the Corsairs. Aragorn did not have the authority to hold them longer. Also, bringing an army of undead close to Sauron, also known as the Necomancer, seems like a really bad idea to me.
@@istari0 Their oath was to fight against Sauron, period, not to fight just one battle.
They were seriously impractical, scaring friend and foe alike. I think Aragorn was quite happy to have them pass on, both for kindly and for practical reasons. Also, they already faltered once. Let them go out on a high note, rather than taking the chance that they get tricked, cajoled, intimidated, or seduced again by Sauron or one of his lieutenants.
You are the very best.
Ties close with Tolkien Untangled, Men Of The West and The Red Book and CluelessFangirl
I read the thumbnail wrong and thought this was about the witch-king’s big-ass flail for a moment
😂 The flail is impressive!
Wonderful Video, thank you
I've been thinking about this video all day. Good job
Nice work thanks