Nienna is criminally underrated with fans. Why was the Ring destroyed? Because Smeagol was there to wrestle it from Frodo after he fell to it. Why was Smeagol there? Because Frodo spared his life in pity earlier. Why did Frodo do that? Because Gandalf taught him about the value of mercy. Which of the Vala was Gandalf closest to and presumably learned the most from? Nienna. She's indirectly responsible for finally teaching the children of Ilúvitar how to resist evil themselves and defeat Sauron.
Saruman being able to recognize that Frodo has grown in a spiritual way, because he is Maiar, is such a great insight. The more I learn about LOTR the more I love it. Also I am pretty sure Nienna is based on the Virgin Mary, specifically of the title Our Lady of Sorrows. And also Nienna being pointed out to listen to the theme closely reminds me of the times in the Gospel Mary is said to "ponder these things in her heart." So thank you for the video!
Glad you liked it! I think there's several characters influenced by Marian devotion; Tolkien flat-out declared that both Elbereth/Varda and Galadriel fill Mary-like roles in LotR, and Tolkien was, let's say, reluctant to say something had inspired or influenced him unless he was *thoroughly* convinced of the connection 😆. Nienna seems like another clear example, both as a figure of pity and mercy, and as an exemplar of contemplation.
The reason there is hope all the time in the legendarium despite so much loss, sacrifice, and sadness is that her powers are constantly at work. Therefor, she is actually the most active Valar.
Lexi, among the Tolkien content creators I am familiar with only you have dedicated a video to Nienna. I am disposed to state that it may be that only you can. The sensitivity you bring to your analysis of every topic and the kindness you exhibit in your interactions with your viewers and your supporters, enables you to perceive Nienna's character, beyond her role as described in the Legendarium. Your character, in other words, allows you to understand Nienna's character flaws and all, especially well. As a healer myself, in the area of mental health, I've identified with Nienna's role and her strengths over my lifetime. The longer I practiced in my profession the more I grew in my admiration for the Lady of Tears. Your analysis in this video has increased my knowledge of and appreciation for my favorite Vala. I am most grateful to you. Thank-you, Lexi.
The closer you look at the story, the more you see Nienna's influence. Boromir is cured from madness through pity and then chooses to die defending Merry and Pippin, not because they are vital to the war effort, but out of compassion which allows him to redeem himself and die in peace. This action inspires Merry and Pippin through the rest of the story to rise above themselves and achieve greatness. Aragorn chooses to chase after Merry and Pippin instead of Frodo out of compassion which allows them to rally the west and defend the kingdoms of Rohan and Gondor. Again, not for strategic reasons, helping Frodo defeat Sauron might be more 'efficient' in defeating evil and applying justice, but for the sake of Pity. Frodo manages to pull through without Aragorn by showing Pity to Smeagol who provides crutial help to end the quest, as discribed in this video. Faramir emphasises that he fights not for glory but out of Pity, the desire to defend that which he loves. Eowyn finds the strenght to defeat the Witch King because she wants to defend her uncle, not out of lust for battle. Aragorn shows Pity to his soldiers who are afraid to march to the black gate and to the Haradrim and thus sows the seeds for a just and fair rule. Often readers say Gandalf's wisdom saw strength in the Hobbits which the other Istari did not, and how they could be useful. I believe that is an Aulë way of thinking. I believe Gandalf's interest in the Hobbits was out of Pity, and the strength and usefulness of the Hobbits is how Illuvatar rewards that virtue. And while Manwe represents Justice, the desire for justice is not the primary motivation in the above examples. It is Nienna that inspires them.
I can't wrap my head around specialities like blind grief and hopeless sorrow, quite the evolution from your commonly nasty, spiteful Indoeuropean god to the Vala who transcends suffering in ways which Buddha could still learn of. You have a great way of choosing from the infite amounts of topics one could discuss in relation to the legendarium... Lexi you're a legit G in the field 👍🏼 And I want to add, that video ended on the highest note. Surprisingly touching. I wish for our world to come to healing, and we may even be, global pains hurt on an individual level but perhaps the pain is necessary for healing
This is the second time I have watched your video on Nienna, and I have to say it has really illuminated my view of her. I listen to "The Silmarillion" on audiobook constantly, and in one of my trips through the book I paid particular attention to Tolkien explaining why Olorin spent so much time in Nienna's halls in Valinor. Then I watched this video, probably on the same day. And suddenly, it clicked for me. I finally understood the breadth of her influence in Arda: she literally touches everything. No wonder she's one of the Aratar. It's not a cheerful role she plays, but boy is it essential! Her presence adds so much depth and substance to Tolkien's stories that they wouldn't have otherwise. And nobody understands this about Tolkien's writings unless they understand Nienna. Anyway, thank you for such great videos. Cheers!
So glad to have a new upload Lexi. This was truly wonderful stuff, you go right to the heart of LoTR, right to the heart of the legendarium and right to the heart of the professor. Pity, beauty in sadness and wisdom through sorrow seem so important to him. I have had much sorrow in my life and have tried to use it to find the wisdom with which to help others. this strikes such a chrod with me. it made me think of El Condor Passa. " it gives the world its saddest sound." a beautiful and haunting melody. that melody of nienna runs thorugh the works of Tolkien as it runs through all our lives. Thank you so much and keep up the good work.
Thank you, it feels good to publish again! I'm glad you enjoyed it. I think the world would be better off if more of us took your approach to facing life's sorrow.
Nienna has always struck a chord with me, so it's good to see her covered here. Subtle power is sometimes the most telling. In a way, there are parallels with Galadriel.
Nienna has always been my favorite Vala. I think understanding her character's purpose would bring so much healing and hope to the world in today's day and age.
Happy that you're back! I've always loved Nienna, she's probably my favorite of the Ainur, and I love your take. I had never heard of her being Manwë and Melkor's sister but that works so well thematically
Thank you! It's good to be back in the fray 😊 I also love the connection of Nienna with Melkor and Manwe... Melkor in particular, something so satisfying about the duality of cruelty and pity.
@@DavidRoberts yeah, it definitely does. That works fine with her not being his sister, as she has pity for everyone. But , I like it even better if he's her brother.
Thank you for such a touching portrayal of one of the most powerful forces known to us mortals; Regret; Pity; Compassion; perhaps even some part of Love? We could all sure use some glimpses of her these days. Also, i'd like to thank you for pointing out that possible connection of Gandalf's choice of robe to his closeness to Her...having never read through the Silmarillion myself, i never understood why Gandalf was the "Grey" wizard, when each of his brothers each chose something more exciting and, well, visible. I appreciate these deep dives a lot. Thank you!
The Grey-Lady is an interesting moniker, you've just given me an idea for a video regarding Gandalf & Nienna thanks so much Lexi! This video was great, I do wonder if Nienna is destined to take the leading role in the Second Musique.
Can't wait to see it! My personal suspicion is the Ainur will take the back seat to the Children of Eru in the Second Music, but I think the Men who most closely learned Nienna's teachings will be the strongest voices - so her influence will certainly be felt!
@@GirlNextGondor Hmm good point, my own thinking was along these lines also, that men might take the chief-most place though I hadn't considered those who listened most closely to Nienna as leading the musique. Good point on that one, and I'll have to script that video soon, maybe after I'm done with some of our Octobre content X) as always your encouragement means the world Lexi! So very glad that you're back!
I'll admit I totally forgot she existed after finishing the Silmarillion, until a discussion came up about her, and I was like "Who????" 😅 But now she's one of my favorites of the Valar! Excellent breakdown and analysis, as always!
Her character is on par for catering towards Melkor’s initial release. Everything stated about Nienna honestly is plausible. The poor lady cared and tried advocating for every & anybody. Gandalf being a student of hers says a lot, as to how the mission was overall a success. Gandalf of 5 Istari was the only one to complete the full mission. He is the only to have studied under the Wondrous lady of Tears. I would like to initiate a connection between his initial knowledge on the peoples of middle earth vs the others who had other methods but failed. Not saying Nienna was +5 to Gandalf but…. Proof is in the pudding. I really adore this Valar, she is simply trying. She loves all and hold all to the same regard. She is my grandma.
Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! She has returned!! Great stuff. Just want to say I was chatting to Melkor on his Dischord and he denies everything.
Forgive me love I'm a little under the weather so my brain can't quite give you a comment you deserve. but I wanted to celebrate your return and thank you for this topic. I've always been fascinated with Nienna, but I somehow never even began to think about her influence on the song itself. ARG. This just makes me love her all the more. I mean she just get such the short straw. Melkor's out there being angry toddler who wants his way. Manwe's being the off put father, and Nienna's just trying to hold all the result of their damage together and make thing snot so terrible for others by taking all this on her shoulders in a way. DAmn did she get a raw deal.
Any kind of comment you feel like leaving is just perfect ❤ Always nice to hear from you and I hope you feel better! I've started thinking of the Second Music as "Nienna's Revenge" 😆 She'll overcome in the end. The Mandos-Lorien-Nienna triad is fine but I adore the thought of her having Manwe and Melkor as older brothers - and eventually being the only one who continues to sympathize with Melkor's (entirely avoidable and self-inflicted) suffering. Gonna take a LOT of patient contemplation to resolve THAT case....
*Melkor* played some huge drums and the rest of _Ainur_ covered all the other instruments of the symphony orchestra. *Eru* was the conductor, and all the instruments and the musicians, and sound itself, were part of him.
Thank you, Lexi, for this wonderful deep-dive lore video. These days everyone seems to be concentrating on Prime Video's LotR:TRoP series. It is good to see Tolkien's actual work respected and honored. It is great to have you back on UA-cam.😁👍 I hope everything is okay with you. Look forward to watching anything you upload, remakes or all-new content.
The epic return of GNG! This is a most joyous day, even if the topic of the video is serious. I wouldn't say it is sad, because to me Nienna is compelling. 14:44 Sums it perfectly. I hope you're faring well and doing well! As always, you delivered a blast of a work. Among the greatest JRRT content every show on YT (!). 4:21 You see all and touch upon all :) Yes, I always loved the power of pity in the legendarium. It will not grant you fame, like the might of arms. But the very few who see fine lines of the humane, will recognize how strong your pity has made you. Your triumph of the spirit goes beyond the boundaries of the material world.
My triumphant return, and it's with a topic about suffering and grief... typical 😆 One of the things I love about the strength conferred by pity is that it's not portrayed as lip service or a consolation prize. Frodo, for example, earns the sincere respect of good characters like Galadriel and Arwen *but also* the fear and hatred of evil characters like Saruman. Even the people who wish it weren't the case have to admit its power.
Happy to see you back! I'm always surprised by how much theology is actually mixed in the 'non allegorical' writing of the Professor... and not surprised but very pleased by your analysis of it (in non-necessarily-theological terms). Not by chance, I think, the only Greek invocation that remains common to Orthodox and Catholics (and Protestants) is "Kyrie Eleison".
Nienna is central to the theme of Tolkien's works, in a way. Lord of the Rings was a story about humanity's relationship with death, and the importance of hope in the midst of despair, a desire to leave a better world behind than the one you were born to, and a quiet strength and dignity in the face of the inevitable end. This too shall pass. To take sorrow and grief and from it draw enough strength for one final effort.
Professionally and personality wise, Nienna would be my patron among the Valar. In a Legendarium where love, mercy, and pity, pave the way for divine intervention, a Vala of sorrow and pity would seem to be a necessity. If you are looking for a Rogerian therapist in Aman, Nienna is the counselor for you. I think Nienna can avoid depression because her sorrow is rooted in empathy for others rather than an inward unhealthy self focus. Because of his job description as a Tolkien version of a muse, I have always assumed that Olorin was of the people of Irmo, but it is Nienna's contribution to his education and the example Gandalf sets because of it, that greatly contributes to Sauron's downfall and a victory for the Free People of Middle Earth.
If there weren't pity, compassion or love in the world, there wouldn't be a world. What else there to counter all that evil and suffering? You may it is not a tactical or visible power, but I think it's the most creational power there is. Gandalf's answer to Galadriel 'why the halfling?' question always gets me. And think of all those characters on the good side, if there wasn't pity in the world? Would they be still existed? And would they be the same?...
Shes the most relatable character ever made imo. Nothing comes close to the description of how our souls ache over the destruction and sorrows of existence. She is the lady of sorrow, mercy and grace ❤️
Excellent video. I concluded some time ago that what Gandalf learned from Nienna was critical to his being able to organize the defeat of Sauron. This video went far beyond anything I had thought about regarding her though. Well done!
Appreciate that! I had a vague idea that Gandalf and Pity were going to be important but I had no idea how I was going to fit them in as I approached this topic. It was nice to have an excuse to dedicate time to pondering exactly why Nienna might be so significant.
This is really great content. This kind of sophisticated, multilayered and wide-ranging analysis of the text and themes of the legendarium would surely please Tolkien as they show how profound, multifaceted and deeply interconnected his created world is. So much more than just 'fantasy' as many people think.
Most genius content ❤❤❤ thank you Lexi. You r the best. I will cherish this video forever. The ontological explanation of the triad is something that I needed to hear. The risk of Nebulous corruption of Melkor to define itself when so openly opposed by Manwe n that it’s a tacit victory for Melkor. N the fact that the corruption defining itself as discordance actually overpowers Manwes resistance and other Ainur unable to pick sides n go silent, and hence the need for grey element n Nienna as the chief Valar to unify the discordant themes into a song which is unquenchable and more piercing like the eye of Illuvatar & so finally wins.
Welcome back, and amazing video! I've always thought that Nienna played an important role in Tolkien's works, but you really put into words why I thought that. Amazing job! I hope everything is well!
Thank you! This was a really fun topic to break down; I knew Nienna had to be important but this was the first time I'd sat down and explored some of the connections to different parts of the text.
Dont know why but Nienna always gave me Telerin and Elvish vibes. She always wears grey-silverish things, constantly mourns for what Melkor had done to Arda etc. and one of her students was even named as Elf-friend. I think Tolkien should have gave her more credit and make her more like Varda in terms of reverence
I just found your channel and I was so glad to see this video. I remember that the first time I read The Silmarillion I didn't really pay attention to Nienna but last year I reread it and I kind of discovered her. She became one of my favourite valar. The "accept the pain to transform it", her weeping that helps the trees to give last flower and fruit... And I really liked your explanation of the music, it makes so much sense. Thank you! New subscriber :) PS: hope you understand my English, I'm not native..
Wonderful video, as always. On the subject of Nienna, I’m sure that Tolkien’s final conception of her was derived from his Catholic faith…she is clearly modeled after Our Lady of Sorrows, an important depiction of the Virgin Mary in Catholic Christianity.
Just discovered your channel and binged the whole thing. I love all of it but this one's my favorite. I had thought the Nienna-Gandalf connection was definitely worth paying attention to, as a sign of her profound importance, but I never thought to connect her with the third music this way. It's brilliant and beautiful.
Ah I've missed you so much 💕 what a wonderful surprise to see the notification for this update, and such an interesting video. I hope you're well, Lexi ✨💕
Nienna is like that girl in Mean Girls who just has "a lot of feelings" lolol jk Loved the video. Glad you're back! Loved the connection you made to the Ainulindale and to Luthien's song.
Another great video, and in your character, a topic others would usually pass over. I've just discovered your channel recently and the quality of your analysis and discussion is really impressive. In particular, you've briefly touched on the ontology of free will and agency in Arda a couple of times, which is something I'd love to hear discussed in more depth.
Thank you very much for the compliment! I have gotten myself tied into rhetorical knots over fate vs free will in some of these videos -- you would not believe the (unnumbered) tears shed while scripting the last third or so of Oaths and Curses 😅. It's fascinating how Tolkien employs both forces but I've also been daunted by how complex and subtle some of his distinctions are. Definitely something I've been wanting to explore further; currently I've been toying with some thoughts on the differences between Elves, who seem very causally bound/deterministic, and Men, whose more radical freedom seems tied to their limited lifespan. Further research is called for....
“Only a true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. Only a true heart can touch the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning of time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light.”
I participated in a MUSH based on the First Age. One of my best friends there was the lady who played Nienna. She was a wonderful person and I got chances to role play with her. I firmly back your interpretations here. Keep it up.
Yay, new vid, and what an interesting watch it was! I msut admit, that my field of expertise lies within the chronological events of Arda, and that the stories about the Valar and their characters, besides Morgoth, is very limited. But, by Nienna!, did this video do wonders in transforming my grief over this fact into new found wisdom and strenght of the mind! Even before liking the vid. ;)
New video & end card FTW! I'm just sad that "Brendan Mooney of the House of Fëanor" is apparently too many characters to use as my UA-cam account name...
I absolutely love how you break down these theories and legends. It absolutely blows my mind. I cant wait for more of your videos. I was saddened I had to wait 3 months before we had another video.
@@GirlNextGondor Woot! Are you planning on releasing a Thoughts and Opinions video on Rings of Power? Regardless of whether or not you hate or love it, I will still love your channel. I highly respect your decision to not make comments on the show until after it's finished.
There really isn't much *written* about Nienna, so before doing the research for this topic I wasn't really sure what I thought about her - but that capital-P Pity in LotR always bugged me 😆 It's hard to tell sometimes which connections Tolkien intended and which simply emerged as a byproduct of his imagination, but in this case I suspect they were more deliberate. I'm glad I persuaded you to give Nienna a second look!
Yay 🥰 I really enjoyed the chance to do some research and thinking about Nienna, hopefully this helps raise awareness of her! Glad to hear you enjoyed it!
Thanks ☺ I'm currently planning to re-upload one old video a week in tandem with the new ones. The next one will be Thingol and Melian (necessary backstory for the upcoming Beren and Luthien vid) but after that I'm planning to prioritize the Magic videos and Character Rehabs!
Nienna is criminally underrated with fans. Why was the Ring destroyed? Because Smeagol was there to wrestle it from Frodo after he fell to it. Why was Smeagol there? Because Frodo spared his life in pity earlier. Why did Frodo do that? Because Gandalf taught him about the value of mercy. Which of the Vala was Gandalf closest to and presumably learned the most from? Nienna. She's indirectly responsible for finally teaching the children of Ilúvitar how to resist evil themselves and defeat Sauron.
Hurin and Turgon might give them a run for their money 😂
Thank you for treating of Nienna. I'm in need of her ministrations these days, as my wife died Aug. 10 (age 81).
Larry - I'm so sorry to hear that. What a painful thing to go through. Know that I'll be thinking of you ❤
I am new here, so late in reading the comments, but please accept my condolences. You have my thoughts
😥 Perhaps she awaits you on the Eastern shore of the Blessed Realm.
Condolences and sympathies.
We still remember, we who dwell. In this far land beneath the trees, Thy starlight on the Western Seas.
I hope your days have become a little easier
"Just because I'm sad doesn't mean I've given up hope."
-Wander
Saruman being able to recognize that Frodo has grown in a spiritual way, because he is Maiar, is such a great insight. The more I learn about LOTR the more I love it.
Also I am pretty sure Nienna is based on the Virgin Mary, specifically of the title Our Lady of Sorrows.
And also Nienna being pointed out to listen to the theme closely reminds me of the times in the Gospel Mary is said to "ponder these things in her heart."
So thank you for the video!
Glad you liked it!
I think there's several characters influenced by Marian devotion; Tolkien flat-out declared that both Elbereth/Varda and Galadriel fill Mary-like roles in LotR, and Tolkien was, let's say, reluctant to say something had inspired or influenced him unless he was *thoroughly* convinced of the connection 😆. Nienna seems like another clear example, both as a figure of pity and mercy, and as an exemplar of contemplation.
Yes, ancient Persian Mithra faith principles have dramatically influenced this world.
The reason there is hope all the time in the legendarium despite so much loss, sacrifice, and sadness is that her powers are constantly at work. Therefor, she is actually the most active Valar.
Lexi, among the Tolkien content creators I am familiar with only you have dedicated a video to Nienna. I am disposed to state that it may be that only you can. The sensitivity you bring to your analysis of every topic and the kindness you exhibit in your interactions with your viewers and your supporters, enables you to perceive Nienna's character, beyond her role as described in the Legendarium. Your character, in other words, allows you to understand Nienna's character flaws and all, especially well.
As a healer myself, in the area of mental health, I've identified with Nienna's role and her strengths over my lifetime. The longer I practiced in my profession the more I grew in my admiration for the Lady of Tears. Your analysis in this video has increased my knowledge of and appreciation for my favorite Vala. I am most grateful to you. Thank-you, Lexi.
The closer you look at the story, the more you see Nienna's influence.
Boromir is cured from madness through pity and then chooses to die defending Merry and Pippin, not because they are vital to the war effort, but out of compassion which allows him to redeem himself and die in peace. This action inspires Merry and Pippin through the rest of the story to rise above themselves and achieve greatness.
Aragorn chooses to chase after Merry and Pippin instead of Frodo out of compassion which allows them to rally the west and defend the kingdoms of Rohan and Gondor. Again, not for strategic reasons, helping Frodo defeat Sauron might be more 'efficient' in defeating evil and applying justice, but for the sake of Pity.
Frodo manages to pull through without Aragorn by showing Pity to Smeagol who provides crutial help to end the quest, as discribed in this video.
Faramir emphasises that he fights not for glory but out of Pity, the desire to defend that which he loves. Eowyn finds the strenght to defeat the Witch King because she wants to defend her uncle, not out of lust for battle.
Aragorn shows Pity to his soldiers who are afraid to march to the black gate and to the Haradrim and thus sows the seeds for a just and fair rule.
Often readers say Gandalf's wisdom saw strength in the Hobbits which the other Istari did not, and how they could be useful. I believe that is an Aulë way of thinking. I believe Gandalf's interest in the Hobbits was out of Pity, and the strength and usefulness of the Hobbits is how Illuvatar rewards that virtue.
And while Manwe represents Justice, the desire for justice is not the primary motivation in the above examples. It is Nienna that inspires them.
I can't wrap my head around specialities like blind grief and hopeless sorrow, quite the evolution from your commonly nasty, spiteful Indoeuropean god to the Vala who transcends suffering in ways which Buddha could still learn of. You have a great way of choosing from the infite amounts of topics one could discuss in relation to the legendarium... Lexi you're a legit G in the field 👍🏼
And I want to add, that video ended on the highest note. Surprisingly touching. I wish for our world to come to healing, and we may even be, global pains hurt on an individual level but perhaps the pain is necessary for healing
This is the second time I have watched your video on Nienna, and I have to say it has really illuminated my view of her. I listen to "The Silmarillion" on audiobook constantly, and in one of my trips through the book I paid particular attention to Tolkien explaining why Olorin spent so much time in Nienna's halls in Valinor. Then I watched this video, probably on the same day. And suddenly, it clicked for me. I finally understood the breadth of her influence in Arda: she literally touches everything. No wonder she's one of the Aratar. It's not a cheerful role she plays, but boy is it essential! Her presence adds so much depth and substance to Tolkien's stories that they wouldn't have otherwise. And nobody understands this about Tolkien's writings unless they understand Nienna. Anyway, thank you for such great videos. Cheers!
So glad to have a new upload Lexi. This was truly wonderful stuff, you go right to the heart of LoTR, right to the heart of the legendarium and right to the heart of the professor. Pity, beauty in sadness and wisdom through sorrow seem so important to him. I have had much sorrow in my life and have tried to use it to find the wisdom with which to help others. this strikes such a chrod with me. it made me think of El Condor Passa. " it gives the world its saddest sound." a beautiful and haunting melody. that melody of nienna runs thorugh the works of Tolkien as it runs through all our lives. Thank you so much and keep up the good work.
Thank you, it feels good to publish again! I'm glad you enjoyed it. I think the world would be better off if more of us took your approach to facing life's sorrow.
Goddess of Emo who weaves The Eucatastrophes in Arda.
Nienna has always struck a chord with me, so it's good to see her covered here. Subtle power is sometimes the most telling. In a way, there are parallels with Galadriel.
Nienna has always been my favorite Vala. I think understanding her character's purpose would bring so much healing and hope to the world in today's day and age.
Agreed!
Happy that you're back! I've always loved Nienna, she's probably my favorite of the Ainur, and I love your take. I had never heard of her being Manwë and Melkor's sister but that works so well thematically
Thank you! It's good to be back in the fray 😊
I also love the connection of Nienna with Melkor and Manwe... Melkor in particular, something so satisfying about the duality of cruelty and pity.
It also gives more context for Nienna's pleading for Melkor for his release.
@@DavidRoberts yeah, it definitely does. That works fine with her not being his sister, as she has pity for everyone. But , I like it even better if he's her brother.
That’s probably because she’s not Manwe and Melkor’s. According to the Silmarillion, Nienna is sister to Namo/Mandos and Irmo/Lorien.
Thank you for such a touching portrayal of one of the most powerful forces known to us mortals; Regret; Pity; Compassion; perhaps even some part of Love?
We could all sure use some glimpses of her these days. Also, i'd like to thank you for pointing out that possible connection of Gandalf's choice of robe to his closeness to Her...having never read through the Silmarillion myself, i never understood why Gandalf was the "Grey" wizard, when each of his brothers each chose something more exciting and, well, visible.
I appreciate these deep dives a lot. Thank you!
The Grey-Lady is an interesting moniker, you've just given me an idea for a video regarding Gandalf & Nienna thanks so much Lexi! This video was great, I do wonder if Nienna is destined to take the leading role in the Second Musique.
Can't wait to see it!
My personal suspicion is the Ainur will take the back seat to the Children of Eru in the Second Music, but I think the Men who most closely learned Nienna's teachings will be the strongest voices - so her influence will certainly be felt!
@@GirlNextGondor Hmm good point, my own thinking was along these lines also, that men might take the chief-most place though I hadn't considered those who listened most closely to Nienna as leading the musique. Good point on that one, and I'll have to script that video soon, maybe after I'm done with some of our Octobre content X) as always your encouragement means the world Lexi! So very glad that you're back!
She’s back! ❤❤❤
Like a coffee stain on a white shirt, you can't ever really get rid of me😉
@@GirlNextGondor yeah, like the marring of Melkor.
Welcome back, Lexi!
I'll admit I totally forgot she existed after finishing the Silmarillion, until a discussion came up about her, and I was like "Who????" 😅 But now she's one of my favorites of the Valar!
Excellent breakdown and analysis, as always!
Her character is on par for catering towards Melkor’s initial release. Everything stated about Nienna honestly is plausible. The poor lady cared and tried advocating for every & anybody. Gandalf being a student of hers says a lot, as to how the mission was overall a success. Gandalf of 5 Istari was the only one to complete the full mission. He is the only to have studied under the Wondrous lady of Tears. I would like to initiate a connection between his initial knowledge on the peoples of middle earth vs the others who had other methods but failed. Not saying Nienna was +5 to Gandalf but…. Proof is in the pudding. I really adore this Valar, she is simply trying. She loves all and hold all to the same regard. She is my grandma.
Wow, your Tolkien videos are the best GirlNextDoor. This video really touched me. Thank you so much.
Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! She has returned!! Great stuff. Just want to say I was chatting to Melkor on his Dischord and he denies everything.
Well, he would deny it, wouldn't he 🙄 Thank you!
As Haldir said: "[T]hough in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."
What a beautiful combination of great analysis, stunning images and fine music. Truly transports you to that world.
Thank you! What a compliment 🥰
Good to see u back! Great topic 👌
A video on my favorite Vala! Thank you so much! 😭😭😭 (Nienna is sorrowfully underrated)
She needs more attention! A very powerful figure in her own way, a peer of Varda and Yavanna who get a lot more notice.
She's an archetype of our lady of sorrows(mother mary), who knew her son would take the sin of the mankind. From birth to crucifixion.
Forgive me love I'm a little under the weather so my brain can't quite give you a comment you deserve. but I wanted to celebrate your return and thank you for this topic. I've always been fascinated with Nienna, but I somehow never even began to think about her influence on the song itself. ARG. This just makes me love her all the more. I mean she just get such the short straw. Melkor's out there being angry toddler who wants his way. Manwe's being the off put father, and Nienna's just trying to hold all the result of their damage together and make thing snot so terrible for others by taking all this on her shoulders in a way. DAmn did she get a raw deal.
Any kind of comment you feel like leaving is just perfect ❤ Always nice to hear from you and I hope you feel better!
I've started thinking of the Second Music as "Nienna's Revenge" 😆 She'll overcome in the end. The Mandos-Lorien-Nienna triad is fine but I adore the thought of her having Manwe and Melkor as older brothers - and eventually being the only one who continues to sympathize with Melkor's (entirely avoidable and self-inflicted) suffering. Gonna take a LOT of patient contemplation to resolve THAT case....
*Melkor* played some huge drums and the rest of _Ainur_ covered all the other instruments of the symphony orchestra.
*Eru* was the conductor, and all the instruments and the musicians, and sound itself, were part of him.
Thank you, Lexi, for this wonderful deep-dive lore video. These days everyone seems to be concentrating on Prime Video's LotR:TRoP series. It is good to see Tolkien's actual work respected and honored. It is great to have you back on UA-cam.😁👍 I hope everything is okay with you. Look forward to watching anything you upload, remakes or all-new content.
Oh my gosh I missed you so much!!! What an amazing return with Nienna!
💖 It's really nice to be back! Nienna was really fun to explore. She even feels bad for Morgoth, the girl has *depth*.
The epic return of GNG! This is a most joyous day, even if the topic of the video is serious. I wouldn't say it is sad, because to me Nienna is compelling. 14:44 Sums it perfectly.
I hope you're faring well and doing well!
As always, you delivered a blast of a work. Among the greatest JRRT content every show on YT (!).
4:21 You see all and touch upon all :) Yes, I always loved the power of pity in the legendarium. It will not grant you fame, like the might of arms. But the very few who see fine lines of the humane, will recognize how strong your pity has made you. Your triumph of the spirit goes beyond the boundaries of the material world.
My triumphant return, and it's with a topic about suffering and grief... typical 😆
One of the things I love about the strength conferred by pity is that it's not portrayed as lip service or a consolation prize. Frodo, for example, earns the sincere respect of good characters like Galadriel and Arwen *but also* the fear and hatred of evil characters like Saruman. Even the people who wish it weren't the case have to admit its power.
@@GirlNextGondor Fully agreed! When it comes to Frodo, that is another element which makes him one of my favorite characters of all time.
Happy to see you back! I'm always surprised by how much theology is actually mixed in the 'non allegorical' writing of the Professor... and not surprised but very pleased by your analysis of it (in non-necessarily-theological terms).
Not by chance, I think, the only Greek invocation that remains common to Orthodox and Catholics (and Protestants) is "Kyrie Eleison".
A pretty foundational entreaty to be sure 😅
Glad to be back!
Nienna is central to the theme of Tolkien's works, in a way. Lord of the Rings was a story about humanity's relationship with death, and the importance of hope in the midst of despair, a desire to leave a better world behind than the one you were born to, and a quiet strength and dignity in the face of the inevitable end. This too shall pass. To take sorrow and grief and from it draw enough strength for one final effort.
Professionally and personality wise, Nienna would be my patron among the Valar. In a Legendarium where love, mercy, and pity, pave the way for divine intervention, a Vala of sorrow and pity would seem to be a necessity. If you are looking for a Rogerian therapist in Aman, Nienna is the counselor for you. I think Nienna can avoid depression because her sorrow is rooted in empathy for others rather than an inward unhealthy self focus. Because of his job description as a Tolkien version of a muse, I have always assumed that Olorin was of the people of Irmo, but it is Nienna's contribution to his education and the example Gandalf sets because of it, that greatly contributes to Sauron's downfall and a victory for the Free People of Middle Earth.
If there weren't pity, compassion or love in the world, there wouldn't be a world. What else there to counter all that evil and suffering?
You may it is not a tactical or visible power, but I think it's the most creational power there is.
Gandalf's answer to Galadriel 'why the halfling?' question always gets me. And think of all those characters on the good side, if there wasn't pity in the world? Would they be still existed? And would they be the same?...
Shes the most relatable character ever made imo. Nothing comes close to the description of how our souls ache over the destruction and sorrows of existence. She is the lady of sorrow, mercy and grace ❤️
You are one of the few youtubers who gets an instant like from me before watching ;)
Hitting like before you even know what the consequences of hitting the like button will be this time? Risky 😂 but I'm still grateful!
This video brought me to tears
You're finally back! Thanks the Valar!
She does teach Olorin pity and that saves middle earth from Sauron. She taught him well.
Nienna = BEST VALAR. Its fact!
Excellent video. I concluded some time ago that what Gandalf learned from Nienna was critical to his being able to organize the defeat of Sauron. This video went far beyond anything I had thought about regarding her though. Well done!
Appreciate that! I had a vague idea that Gandalf and Pity were going to be important but I had no idea how I was going to fit them in as I approached this topic. It was nice to have an excuse to dedicate time to pondering exactly why Nienna might be so significant.
This is really great content. This kind of sophisticated, multilayered and wide-ranging analysis of the text and themes of the legendarium would surely please Tolkien as they show how profound, multifaceted and deeply interconnected his created world is. So much more than just 'fantasy' as many people think.
Always nice to find a new video from the channel that brings Tolkien's fictional world to life in such fine style!
Cheers!
Aw, thank you! Cheers!
Your channel is the most comprehensive and complete understanding of Tolken. I would love to have a discussion with you about Tolken.
I am amazed about the amount of both mind and heart put into this. Thank you.
Great to have you back! :D
Most genius content ❤❤❤ thank you Lexi. You r the best. I will cherish this video forever. The ontological explanation of the triad is something that I needed to hear. The risk of Nebulous corruption of Melkor to define itself when so openly opposed by Manwe n that it’s a tacit victory for Melkor. N the fact that the corruption defining itself as discordance actually overpowers Manwes resistance and other Ainur unable to pick sides n go silent, and hence the need for grey element n Nienna as the chief Valar to unify the discordant themes into a song which is unquenchable and more piercing like the eye of Illuvatar & so finally wins.
So glad you're back 🎉
Welcome back, and amazing video! I've always thought that Nienna played an important role in Tolkien's works, but you really put into words why I thought that. Amazing job! I hope everything is well!
Thank you! This was a really fun topic to break down; I knew Nienna had to be important but this was the first time I'd sat down and explored some of the connections to different parts of the text.
I feel like this is a good video I can show people to summarize the beauty of the deeper lore of Tolkien.
Welcome back!
Dont know why but Nienna always gave me Telerin and Elvish vibes. She always wears grey-silverish things, constantly mourns for what Melkor had done to Arda etc. and one of her students was even named as Elf-friend. I think Tolkien should have gave her more credit and make her more like Varda in terms of reverence
Happy to see another video from you! I hope you are doing well. :)
I just found your channel and I was so glad to see this video. I remember that the first time I read The Silmarillion I didn't really pay attention to Nienna but last year I reread it and I kind of discovered her. She became one of my favourite valar. The "accept the pain to transform it", her weeping that helps the trees to give last flower and fruit... And I really liked your explanation of the music, it makes so much sense. Thank you! New subscriber :)
PS: hope you understand my English, I'm not native..
Welcome back. Great to hear you again
Thank you very much! Good to be back!
Change sorrow to wisdom. There's a challenge.
Wonderful video, as always. On the subject of Nienna, I’m sure that Tolkien’s final conception of her was derived from his Catholic faith…she is clearly modeled after Our Lady of Sorrows, an important depiction of the Virgin Mary in Catholic Christianity.
My girl!
Glad to see another video, I've missed them.
Thanks! It's good to publish again ☺
I have long been a fan of Nienna and thank you for championing her. This video was deeper than the firmament.
Aw, thank you! In our own small way maybe we are amending the Theme even now.
Great video!
And welcome back!
Thank you!
Just discovered your channel and binged the whole thing. I love all of it but this one's my favorite. I had thought the Nienna-Gandalf connection was definitely worth paying attention to, as a sign of her profound importance, but I never thought to connect her with the third music this way. It's brilliant and beautiful.
Excellent, as always. I'm glad you're back
Thank you! Glad to be back!
Thanks so much for this video. I've viewed it more than a few times, and shared it with friends. Welcome back
Really appreciate that, glad you liked it!
Ah I've missed you so much 💕 what a wonderful surprise to see the notification for this update, and such an interesting video.
I hope you're well, Lexi ✨💕
So glad to be back! And happy to report I'm doing well 😀
@@GirlNextGondor I'm really pleased to hear that. I hope we have more videos soon.
Nienna is like that girl in Mean Girls who just has "a lot of feelings" lolol jk
Loved the video. Glad you're back! Loved the connection you made to the Ainulindale and to Luthien's song.
Nienna wants to bake a cake of rainbows and smiles 😆
Glad you enjoyed it!
Nice work thanks
Excellent video! I'll have to smash that like button like a cacophony of Melkors music!
Another great video, and in your character, a topic others would usually pass over.
I've just discovered your channel recently and the quality of your analysis and discussion is really impressive. In particular, you've briefly touched on the ontology of free will and agency in Arda a couple of times, which is something I'd love to hear discussed in more depth.
Thank you very much for the compliment!
I have gotten myself tied into rhetorical knots over fate vs free will in some of these videos -- you would not believe the (unnumbered) tears shed while scripting the last third or so of Oaths and Curses 😅. It's fascinating how Tolkien employs both forces but I've also been daunted by how complex and subtle some of his distinctions are. Definitely something I've been wanting to explore further; currently I've been toying with some thoughts on the differences between Elves, who seem very causally bound/deterministic, and Men, whose more radical freedom seems tied to their limited lifespan. Further research is called for....
@@GirlNextGondor I can imagine how severely difficult this topic is given the context -- which is precisely why I trust you better on this count. 😅
I've been looking forward to this
So good to see a new video from you !!!
SHE HATH RETURNED!
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien! 👑
“Only a true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. Only a true heart can touch the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning of time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light.”
Definately missed you thanks for your great work
I soo believe in Arda remade & importance Nienna’s role in Arda healed, it’s beauty enhanced by the brokenness that preceded it.
I participated in a MUSH based on the First Age. One of my best friends there was the lady who played Nienna. She was a wonderful person and I got chances to role play with her. I firmly back your interpretations here. Keep it up.
Yay, new vid, and what an interesting watch it was! I msut admit, that my field of expertise lies within the chronological events of Arda, and that the stories about the Valar and their characters, besides Morgoth, is very limited. But, by Nienna!, did this video do wonders in transforming my grief over this fact into new found wisdom and strenght of the mind! Even before liking the vid. ;)
Excuse me?! Who are you, stranger?
Just kidding... I'm glad you're back!
A video is never late, it arrives precisely when it means to 🧙♀
Gray, like the Sindar Elves who achieved the greatest culture of all the Quendi.
I know, wasn't it nice of the Noldor to bear the brunt of Morgoth's assault so they could take their time knitting elaborate sweaters and such? 😆
So happy you're back! 🥰 Love your videos 💚
Finally, new video! ❤️
At last! 😅
Your analyses are always incredible and enjoyable. Thank you again for a thought provoking discussion.
I appreciate that! Glad you enjoyed it!
Welcome back. :)
New video & end card FTW! I'm just sad that "Brendan Mooney of the House of Fëanor" is apparently too many characters to use as my UA-cam account name...
Brendan Mooney, HoF Esq. Though you might be mistaken for a Wretched Finarfinion.... 😂
Welcome back!!! You do such a wonderful job on these. I was so happy to get the video notification yesterday.
Thank you very much! 💞
Nice.
Love the endings
Marvelous. Thank you.
Absolutely beautiful! Always enjoy your videos
Thank you! ☺
Love this. You are great at finding the most interesting topics and producing great insights on them.
I absolutely love how you break down these theories and legends. It absolutely blows my mind. I cant wait for more of your videos. I was saddened I had to wait 3 months before we had another video.
Thank you! I'm not planning another hiatus that long for a while 😉 already starting on the next video.
@@GirlNextGondor Woot! Are you planning on releasing a Thoughts and Opinions video on Rings of Power? Regardless of whether or not you hate or love it, I will still love your channel. I highly respect your decision to not make comments on the show until after it's finished.
A very thoughtful discussion, much to consider!
Glad you enjoyed!
Wow. I never gave Nienna much thought. But you have convinced me of her importance. Nothing is trivial it seems in Tolkien’s mythology.
There really isn't much *written* about Nienna, so before doing the research for this topic I wasn't really sure what I thought about her - but that capital-P Pity in LotR always bugged me 😆 It's hard to tell sometimes which connections Tolkien intended and which simply emerged as a byproduct of his imagination, but in this case I suspect they were more deliberate.
I'm glad I persuaded you to give Nienna a second look!
Such a welcome video! I really, really enjoyed this 🥰 Excellent work on a character I love, but there just isn’t a ton of information on. Thank you!
Yay 🥰 I really enjoyed the chance to do some research and thinking about Nienna, hopefully this helps raise awareness of her!
Glad to hear you enjoyed it!
Hey lexi , welcome back. Missed you btw
Missed you too Shane, happy to be back!
@@GirlNextGondor agh . ( smiling)
My favorite girl is back... 😀
Wonderful as always. Any timeline on your old videos returning to the channel? I would love to rewatch the book vs movie character studies
Thanks ☺ I'm currently planning to re-upload one old video a week in tandem with the new ones. The next one will be Thingol and Melian (necessary backstory for the upcoming Beren and Luthien vid) but after that I'm planning to prioritize the Magic videos and Character Rehabs!
Nienna is very fascinating. Good video thanks
I would have studied under Nienna so that I might learn pity. Not the pity that makes you turn your head but the pity that makes you extend your hand.
Very thoughtful and insightful. You have perceived and expressed these ideas beautifully. Love your channel.