Gandalf: Book vs Movie
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- Опубліковано 1 лют 2024
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Today, it's all about Gandalf! They made some very small but VERY impactful changes to Gandalf's character in the Peter Jackson films. So what happened to his character?
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I forget if I have suggested it to you yet, Pick of Pooks Hill by Rudyard Kipling.
"The Stand" is Stephen King's attempt at doing LOTR. Randal Flagg is Sauron and Las Vegas is his Mordor. I would love to hear your thoughts. IMAO "The Stand" is 💩.
better than Morgoth and Morgoth!
@@dustinneely Stephen writing fan fiction
Can Morgan&Morgan provide assistance for injuries caused by facing Durin's Bane?
" I Did Not Pass Through Fire And Death To Bandy Crooked Words With A Witless Worm."...one of the sickest roast ever. Grima never recovered. I liked grumpy Gandalf.
What about the one that he says: "Saruman the White, or should I say Saruman the stupid. Saruman the silly. Saruman the wrinkly. Saruamaaaan the stinky!!!!!"
@@gffg387 I dont know how the hell i missed that in my 3 read throughs and 2 times of listening to the audio books
" I Did Not Pass Through Fire And Death To give 60% of the settlement to Morgan and Morgan.".
To be fair, that bridge should have had a safety rail
Reply
I dare anyone to write a better line than Tolkien did.... go ahead, I'll just be here awaiting your response.
That's what he says in the movie. In the book he says "The wise speak only of what they know, Gríma son of Gálmód. A witless worm have you become. Therefore be silent, and keep your forked tongue behind your teeth. I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a serving-man till the lightning falls".
Many years ago whilst climbing Mount Brandon in the west of Ireland I was passed by an old man with a staff, an interesting hat and a long white beard. His first words to me were "I'm not Gandalf", but I'm not sure he was telling the truth.
Sounds an awful lot like something Gandalf would say.
Did you see if he had his left eye? You meet Odin in the strangest places these days.
Mount Brandon is my nickname for The Stormlight Archive.
Yup Odin really likes mountain/forest walks for some reason i mean nature is nice and all but i don't get much appeal@@magicaltour1
Typical Gandalf!
"I was talking to myself! A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to."
I am absolutely saving this for when I'm old and crazy, that's an amazing comeback.
Saving it? I've _used_ it!
doubt you can be wise if you focus on what look like an "amazing comeback" when read a book, pheraps i am wrong, but...
@@dagan8659 you are wrong, yes.
When someone ask me why I talk to myself I allways say jokingly that is because I want an intelligent and/or interesting conversation hahaha.
Up there with: "talking to yourself?", "Yes, it's the only way I can be assured of intelligent conversation".
You say Gandalf didn't do anything supernatural to get biblo to give up the ring in the book. But the subtly of "he seemed to grow tall and menacing" might be just from bilbo's perspective. But I think "; his shadow filled the little room." could very well be what we see in the Jackson films.
Ever so slightly supernatural is Tolkien's favorite. Understated.
This is gonna be like the balrog's wings thing.
Agreed. Book Gandalf (bookdalf?) is certainly doing a thing. Its a cool seen in the film either way.
There are a lot of moments in the book like this that are about perception, and I do not think are meant to be taken literally. The film, as a visual medium, chooses to depict them literally because it's effective and economical.
I've never had a problem with this change, as even though I appreciate the subtlety of the prose the film generally uses these moments well.
I agree. I think her claims of difference are not substantiated. The movie scene here is a valid interpretation of the book scene... supernatural in both. "seemed to grow tall and menacing" is reflected in the movie. .... the difference I would be more interested between book and movie is the depiction of Galadriel when she's tempted with the ring. Hated the movie version; seemed too spectacular. This video's case about Gandalf doesn't hold water with me.
Agreed. This chick is dumb and acts as though she is a good singer
i have always understood this point to be bilbo seeing gandalf as he truly was (because of the ring), much like when frodo sees the true form of glorfindel facing the nine
"Knock on the doors with your head." Gandalf said *calmly*.
In the book it doesn't say "calmly". And I always read those words with a very distinctive hint of annoyance in the tone.
oh, I was just making a parody of the Dumbledore scene in the fourth movie, where he shouts angrily but in the book it states that he says it calmly.@@Laurelin70
Did you put your name in the goblet of fire? 😂
@@nosrin1988 Sorry, never read any Harry Potter book, so I didn't understand the reference.
lol ya. it was partially a case of the actor not really being familiar with the books and not caring either. I think it worked fine but Dumbledore is honestly an incredibly chill dude so it's actually very out of character.
best part about it is all the funny memes.@@Laurelin70
Book Gandalf should be given the highest honour that Eru can bestow. He put the most awesome spell on the Prancing Pony and it's a crime to be omitted from the movies.
He made it serve the best beer in the Shire for seven straight years. That is pure wizardry and utterly selfless. The dude needs a medal and a standing ovation.
Not the best beer in the Shire! The best beer anywhere!
May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
Plus a gold coin! Gandalf was really happy with the news.
The Prancing Pony isn't in The Shire
@@5ynthesizerpatel But I'm sure the beer was, if it was that good. Hobbits have a particular fondness for beer of surpassing excellence. Barliman Butterbur likely had to rent out the warehouse space next door to his inn to set up his import / export and logistics department.
Bree is not in the shire. it is just past it's borders.
And a gold piece besides!
It has been decades since I read the books. One of my impressions of Gandalf is that what kept him on mission, in contrast to Saruman, was his deep connection with the people of Middle Earth. Instead of his "love of the halflings' leaf" being a weakness, it was important, in fact a strength. Gandalf was the Grey Wanderer, visiting people all over Middle Earth, getting to know them, going into their homes to enjoy their hospitality, share in basic, simple pleasures like food and drink. He went to parties.
Saruman stayed in his tower, studying ring lore, separating himself from the common people. He failed to appreciate the importance of people simply being able to enjoy life.
Gandalf understood what Saruman failed to comprehend, why it was so important to defeat Sauron. He got to know the people of Middle Earth, and shared in their values, even the simple ones of hobbits. This is what kept him on mission.
In a sense the Lord of the Rings is a morality play.
The Ring embodies the pride and malice of Sauron, and as you go through the story you find strength in the small and humble, and weakness in the vainglorious.
God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.
Honestly, "I have returned to you now, at the turning of the tide " feels less like Gandalf claiming to be the turning of the tide, and more that Gandalf was sent back when he was to bolster the new flow of recently turned tide
Exactly my thoughts aswell, he has been swept in with the turning of the tide to help, not actually there to turn it
He never claims to be the turning of the tide. He couldnt be even if he wanted to be, that wasnt the mission of the Maia. They were there to HELP the peoples of MIddle Earth to turn the tide, not BE the turn. itself.
I never really knew if the tide turning was meant to be a positive or negative statement, I just assumed it meant that the conflict was ramping up, and that whatever balance the opposing sides had was about to topple, one way or another. Sauron and Saruman were about to make their final play, Gandalf and company had to set up their own counterplays immediately and hope Frodo could successfully sneak into the back rank and promote to queen. Uhh, ignore the clunky cliché chess metaphor there.
Remember that you have to read LOTR backwards, because as the book points out, it was written AFTER the events. So as they are writing they KNOW the outcome. So Gandalf saying that is a narrative ploy, not any kind of reflection. You saw how narrowly the ring came to being captured, so things like the 'wind shifting' and things like that are foreshadowing in the book, because everything relied on the ring. Their winning at Gondor meant nothing, they would have been crushed outside barad dur, there is no way Gandalf would have known one way or another.
@@mikearchibald744 Gandalf was the one being in Middle-Earth who would have been quite capable of knowing one way or another, and did. The tide had turned and Gandalf said so plainly, because Eru and Manwe were intervening in the War of the Ring. Eru's first interventive act was to return Gandalf empowered and his divine mandate expanded. Victory was still not assured, but the goal posts had shifted from the free people's achieving victory entirely on their own, but rather managing to fight until the bitter end.
Letter 156 lays this out, with secondary reference to Letter 192.
My absolutely favorite part of the LOTR series is when Gandalf stands before Saruman who is trapped high up in his tower and Saruman tries to split Gandalf away from his allies so they can talk in secret together. Saruman asks Gandalf ,"Will you not come up?" And Gandalf tells Saruman all his plans and schemes have failed and asks him, "Will you not come down?" Saruman is still holding himself above the people he was sent to Middle Earth to defend while Gandalf has humbled himself in comparison by working with and among them and offers Saruman the chance to do the same. "Humility best serves well those who wield (use) it well". Of course Saruman is undone by his own pride, arrogance, and pettiness in the end. Unlike Sauron (who is beyond redemption and must be destroyed) Gandalf offers Saruman a chance to make amends in some way, making it more relatable and hopeful (and tragic) in my opinion.
This indicates that saruman and gandalf were contemporaries and gandalf had the highest respect for him
I love both versions, but I also think the movies could have stayed closer to the books with Gandalf's treatment of Pippin in particular. A lot of the dialogue is the same or very similar, but it's not really until halfway through the third movie we see some tenderness from Gandalf. Most of the rest is played as if he's annoyed at Pippin, while in the book there is a lot more of with the glint in the eye and a bit of a joke that tells us he really cares for all the hobbits.
Gandalf is one of the reasons I find the Lord of the Rings so magical, not in the least because my late father bore such a striking resemblance to Ian McKellen as Gandalf the Grey to the point where he would just stay in the theatre during the break when we were watching the Hobbit together, because during the original trilogy he got so many stares when going to buy popcorn.
Watching these movies always makes me feel like a little boy again, almost seeing the face of my father on screen and hearing his deep, McKellen-like voice, being reminded of this intelligent, witty, sometimes grumpy old man who would go through fire for the people and things he loved and believed in.
I’ll have a drink to your father tonight, he sounds like he was a good man.
Gandalf's outburst is essential to make Bilbo (and the audience) understand that the One Ring is unimaginably dangerous.
If anything, it's Bilbo who's acting oddly.
Gandalf nipped it in the bud.
The author also fails to take into consideration that Mairon (Sauron) was a higher pedigree of Maiar. Literally trained by the greatest of the Valar, Melkor.
@@KurtFrederiksen uh where was Gandalf being hostile. Gandalf was making it clear to bilbo that he feels insulted by his suggestion that Gandalf isn’t his friend but his enemy as Gandalf will always be his friend. Nice job completely missing that.
@@wadenutt5722the author wrote that shit much later.
"Gandalf's outburst is essential to make Bilbo (and the audience) understand that the One Ring is unimaginably dangerous."
Unless you're Faramir. Then Tolkien conveniently forgets how dangerous the Ring is. It's just bad writing because Tolkien was a bad writer.
@@wadenutt5722 sauron trained under aule, he was just melkors bitch
Around the 18th minute, when the discussion turns to the dialogue btw Saruman and Gandalf the White, I have always interpreted that Saruman judges Gandalf based on his own personality. If he wants all power and is willing to die for it, so must be Gandalf, because that is what is natural
There's an expression for that I know in German: 'Was ich selber denk und tu, trau ich auch dem anderen zu.' which I roughly translate as: 'What I myself think and do, I assume others will do too.'
This is also what Sauron does. From the start, he thought the Fellowship would bring the Ring to Minas Tirith to use it against him, because he couldn’t conceive that someone would destroy it instead of using it.
The corrupt have a tendency to assume everyone else is as corrupt as themselves. It’s how they justify themselves.
Saruman also surely knows that the One ring urges its possessor to use it as well.@@washada
"DID YOU THROW YOUR NAME INTO THE GOBLET OF FIRE!" Gandalf asked calmly.
I got an ad immediately after the "Aragorn says: ..." and I'm like "No he didn't!!!!". 😂😂😂
Aragorn says get crispy chicken tenders
The same just happened to me, prit' near identical thought came to mind
There’s a passage I like near the beginning of the book ROTK - when Gandalf and Pippin meet Denethor, Pippin gets lost in thought suddenly pondering What is Gandalf? How old is he? What’s the deal with Gandalf anyway? And he realizes he’d never even thought of those things before. A first-time reader who hasn’t seen the movies or read the Appendices yet (me at 13) has been wondering these things a lot by this point.
One of the most brilliant things about Tolkien is how he can be so detailed and consistent and at the same time still leave grey areas or make you go look for things and figure them out without spelling it out and beating you over the head. A lesser author would have put an exposition in the first chapter of The Fellowship of the Ring explaining just what the hell Gandalf is. Tolkien is smarter than that.
What is never clear to me is just how much Gandalf knows about himself. Does he remember everything he has done going back to the singing of the world into existence? Did he come to Middle Earth fully functional or did he have to rediscover his powers over time? If things go tits up can he get on a boat and go back to Valinor or is he stuck in Middle Earth forever living under Sauron? Just how does this mission work?
I almost wished they didn’t reveal his true Maiar origin. It was cool to wonder what exactly Gandalf was. All we know was that he came from the West and was originally named Oloron, but we didn’t know anything else until the Silmarillion.
@@MrKingYuji that is a great point. As someone who discovered the LOTR long after the publication of the Silmarilian, I have never thought about what it must have been like for readers before that. There is nothing in the appendix that tells you what the heck he is.
@@johnkluge3421 All the wizards are somewhat restricted in power compared to their true Maiar selves, that's pretty clear from the Silmarillion. They weren't meant to 1v1 Sauron, they were supposed to encourage and lead the peoples of Middle Earth in opposing evil. My personal headcanon is that while they were incarnated in their wizardy forms, they didn't remember their true origin, or at the least it was very blurry and unclear, and almost dream-like to them. But once they die, their spirits remember it all as they are supposed to return to the West - I think Gandalf the White is far more aware of who he really is than Gandalf the Grey was, and (in the books) when Saruman dies, his spirit manifests briefly and looks longingly to the west before the wind scatters it which to me indicates that for a moment we glimpsed the actual Curumo.
How did you feel when the Mouth of Sauron threw them the Mithril coat? I can only imagine the suspense when Frodo's rescue was yet unrevealed!
In The Hobbit Tolkien does poke some fun at Gandalf, when he catches up Bilbo on the adventure with the goblins:
"The wizard, to tell the truth, never minded explaining his cleverness more than once" --Out of the Frying-Pan into the Fire
So I don't mind Jackson going back to this tone in places.
I love Ian McKellen and that performance was among his best. I was not a fan of how they underpowered him for the scene with the Witch King. I was thrilled with the use of his "Time That Is Given to Us" speech even if they changed the context of it. It really made the movies!
I think that movie-Gandalf displayed some of his qualities as described in The Valaquenta:
“Wisest of the Maiar was Olórin. He too dwelt in Lórien, but his ways took him often to the house of Nienna, and of her he learned pity and patience.
.... But of Olórin that tale [the Quenta Silmarillion] does not speak; for though he loved the Elves, he walked among them unseen, or in form as one of them, and they did not know whence came the fair visions or the promptings of wisdom that he put into their hearts. In later days he was the friend of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and took pity on their sorrows; and those who listened to him awoke from despair and put away the imaginations of darkness.”
It was wise that he was shown as jolly person fond of hobbits , their kindness and humanity. And him using only basic party tricks. He is very wise and enjoys the hobbits company and rejuvination, but he is very wise when needed.
Honestly that he is more of a benevolent but a bit trickster, i mean it really works him showing visual he trusts the party,
I mean th movies probably did go he did play the fun dude , that is also wise, but revealed with the white shift , that he is a very very powerful authority. As he showes that more.
The movie played before thwe white probably up toreally play up how much gandalf is attached and loves the hobbits, humans, and their company. And not steal the partys spotlight. Which also is kinda wise on him?!
To make the, oh yeah he was a wise fun dude and now he gets serious white one.
Boromir is a child asking if we're there yet on a six hour trip.... that was classic!!!!! Great video as always.
I'm not sure why UA-cam thought I needed video essays about Tolkien in my life a week ago, but apparently it was right.
Uncomfortable thoughts about learning algorithms aside, you're doing awesome work! Thank you!
If you liked this you might also like "in deep Geek" there's a lotr playlist, which personally I think is well worth listening to.
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On the Doors of Durin scene, movie Gandalf also doesn’t want to be there. He’s vaguely aware of a sinister threat in Moria and he never wanted to be there in the first place (he was even against it), so he’s under additional stress.
In the books, he thinks of it as a dangerous paths among other, equally (or more) dangerous paths, so he’s not particularly worried, they’re just progressing on their journey.
Considering that his view of Moria was different in the movie, I think the changes they made were necessary to keep the character consistent. He had to be stressed and on edge.
But Gandalf does do something supernatural in the confrontation with Bilbo, as it says "He seemed to grow tall and menacing; his shadow filled the little room." That's not a description of someone simply looming over you. I thought the movie captured that moment pretty accurately as per the text.
It could've been a lot more subtle. But I don't think Peter Jackson does subtlety.
You could absolutely read it as a description of how Bilbo felt it. I felt similarly when I was a kid being an annoying little twerp to dad and he finally stood up. My dad's a fantastic man and has never laid a hand on any of his kids, but the presence is definitely there when someone bigger and stronger than you puts their foot down. Or you could be a lot more literal with what's in the text and just say the step he took lead him in front of the fireplace, literally extending his shadow across the whole room. That's part of what's so great about Tolkien, for all his descriptive language, he left a lot of room to take in the story the way you want to.
The dialogue at Orthanc between Saruman and Gandalf would be impossible to stage in its original form. Saruman's primary weapon was his voice. In fact one chapter in T2T is called "The Voice of Saruman." Tolkien writes, "Suddenly another voice spoke, low and melodious, its very sound an enchantment.Those who listened unwarily to that voice could seldom report the words that they heard, and if they did, they wondered, for little power remained in them. Mostly they remembered that it was a delight to hear the voice speaking, all that it said seemed wise and reasonable, and desire awoke in them by swift agreement to seem wise themselves...For some the spell lasted only while the voice spoke to them, and when it spoke to another they smiled, as men do who see through a juggler's trick while others gape at it...But none were unmoved; none rejected its pleas and its commands without an effort of mind and will, so long as its master had control of it." Christopher Lee gives it his best shot, but it's a pale imitation of the original.
Christopher Lee has one of the most famous voices in film history. He lacks Saruman's actual magical ability but using Lee was an inspired choice there.
it can be done... why not? you just need to alter a little the voice to give a supernatural effect, using some very good voice actor, and make some charachters enforce the effect by looking charmed or even making statement on how beutyfull is the voice.
He tries it on Theoden there but only with knowledge of the books you know it's meant to be a supernatural abiltiy as Theoden passes his saving check. I mean they could've done it not so subtle like with Galadriel's banshee impression SFX so I'm glad they kept it subtle there.
Awesome! I love that in the books, Gandalf’s eyebrows are described as extending out past the brim of his hat! That image has always stuck with me
I love Tolkien's character descriptions. They're so evocative!
Nicely done!
Now you're ready for the big leagues: Denethor: Book vs. Movie!
Don't panic!
That seque to the injury law firm was gold. Congrats on getting a sponsor.
Sure, book Gandalf is a bit more calm and sure of himself (if not downright arrogant) at the beginning of the scene outside Moria, but right after the bits you quote, he becomes increasingly angry and shouty, until he ends up hitting the doors with his staff and screaming at them to open in every language he knows, before throwing the staff on the ground.
I think that letting him seem a little more frustrated from the start and moving his outburst at Pippin to after he's already tried several ideas, in return for sparing us a scene that, if filmed exactly as written, would have looked like a sudden temper tantrum, is a service to his character.
I was fond of the films when they came out, but over the years since, I've come to see them as very Hollywood and over the top. Even self-indulgent at times. I still like them but not as much as I used to.
You forgot to add that when they meet in Fangorn forest that it was Gandalf's laugh that made them realise it was him and not Saruman. A chill went down their spines and Legolas cried Mithrandir. It is the aspect about Gandalf that made me gravitate to him more. And how Pippin noticed on the balcony in Minas Tirith that behind the lines of worry and stress that lying deep within was a fountain of mirth that could send the city into laughter if it was to gush forth... I think Ian McKellen did a good job of portraying that attribute in Gandalf
Book Gandalf did not return because the tide had turned. He says they meet AT the turning of the tides - he and Aragorn (the two main character heroes) have progressed to the point together. Gandalf is elucidating the point that the turning of the tide could only occur through the collaboration of all good forces on Middle-Earth
Ian McKellan’s Gandalf is one of the all time great movie characters (especially in FOTR). Dunno who PJ had him murder Denethor by using Shadowfax to hoof him onto a flaming pyre in Return of the King tho lol
It's easier to convey power through dialog in prose than in film or plays. "Show, don't tell" leaves us with a fickle seeming, quick to irritation, if not anger, wizard as seen in the movies...especially with the limited time allowed by the medium.
You can feel the love behind this video, it's so awesome. There's not many creators like that left on YT, everything has to be "content" now. Listening to someone talk about something they love is such a breath of fresh air.
I prefer book Gandalf but movie Gandalf is near perfect for a movie adaptation. In fact, the movies for the trilogy could not be surpassed, only equaled if done well enough. Due to the impossible nature of the task of taking 20 movies worth of story and cutting it down to 3, while generally pleasing both long time fans of the books and general movie audiences, making a Lord of the Rings adaptation for film is asking for a disaster. The fact that it was completed and coherent alone was heroic. Jackson did more than that he made 3 good to great movies when most creators, even those of enormous talent, would have utterly failed.
Movie Gandalf is a microcosm of this success. Sir Ian McKellens masterful performance was a huge part of that success. There was no way to fully please everyone, but wow did they get darn close. The fact that there can even be a discussion of which is better is a credit to all who brought Gandalf to life on the screen.
Great video again love watching all your content!
"Fighting because it's the right thing to do" - it's as if the man lived through two World Wars.
I see Olorin as a Legendarium equivalent of a Muse. Sometimes invisible, sometimes speaking in dreams, sometimes that cool elf that you are sure you've met before, Olorin inspires, encourages, and tries to re-frame darker impulsed to the positive. Counseling the elves to consider not only if they could, but also if they should. Perhaps he was a quiet (unsuccessful) voice of reason among the hot-headed Feanorians.
My favorite Gandalf retort is in response to Denethor's rant about being the Steward of Gondor and so the realm of Gondor comes first and he doesn't want to be the tool of someone else however worthy that someone might be. Gandalf responds that his realm is Middle Earth itself and that if anything that can bear fruit or flower survives then he will have not wholly failed in his task, "For, I also am a steward. Did you not know?" (II always read this in the Denzel, "Didn't you get the memo," voice) He then drops the mike and bounces with Pippin. The unspoken point, for me, is that all stewards are the tools of someone else's purpose, whether that be Earnur, last King of Gondor, Aragorn, the future King of Gondor, or Manwe, High King of Arda and Lord of the West.
McKellen infused the character with humanity, even though he's a spirit being. His interaction with the hobbits made him beloved by the audience and his fall into the abyss was soul crushing. Crazy to think that McKellen wasn't Jackson's first pick to play Gandalf.
A worthy addition to your Book vs Movie series. I think Jackson made a good decision in humaniizing Galdalf, though sometimes it is played a bit too heavy-handed. As the archetypal "wizard," book-Gandalf may have appeared to the uninitiated as playing too closely to well-worn stereotypes (and even derivative), a caricature even, despite the fact that these stereotypes were in fact established by the character himself.
Always a good point - when modern readers mistake Tolkien’s world and characters for stereotypes and tropes, they fail to recognize these as the mold from which all the high fantasy types are cast.
In terms of the Movies, I always say Two Towers is my favorite simply because it really is Gandalf's movie to shine. He is my favorite character in both the books and the movies by far (and that is saying a lot). One difference I always think about when I watch it is in the movies when he says "I strayed out of thought and time..." They omit the line following from the book that states "and I wandered far roads that I will not tell". It seems that would have been perfect in the movie to fit into the "You speak in riddles" line.
It is my favorite of the three books. My big complaint about the movie is that they cut the Voice of Sauroman chapter. I can't believe they did that. Not only is that one of the best chapters of the entire trilogy, it is made for TV entertainment. Who doesn't want to see Gandolf snap Sauroman's staff and kick him out of the order? It is such a satisfying conclusion to things. What were they thinking cutting it out?
@@johnkluge3421It's in the extended cut....sort of.
@@williamblack6912 Yes but it isn't the whole thing. I guess Christopher Lee was really upset by the failure to include that scene. I don't blame him.
@@williamblack6912 Yeah, I think they had to sort of rework the dynamic of Saruman and Gandalf due to some minor changes and the timespan. I'd have to crack open my book again but if I recall, Saruman in the books doesn't discover Gandalf upgraded in the same way he does in the movies. Chiefly, saving Théoden.
@@irife2771 In the books Sauroman is not implicated in the saving Theoden scene the way he is in the movies. It is not clear if Sauroman knows that Gandolf has returned more powerful when Gandolf confronts him at the Tower of Orthanc. Sauroman clearly thinks he can use the power of his voice to talk his way out of things. He tries to make friends with Gandolf in this grossly obsequeous way talking about their coming alliance against Sauron. As I remember, he is legitimately shocked when Gandolf breaks his staff and banishes him from the order of the Astari. So, I don't think he fully understands how powerful Gandolf Mark II really is until that moment.
You might be the first content creator I've seen from the Tolkien community that delivers a nuanced and beautifully worded critique of the differences between the films and the book without reverting to either a blind defense of the adaptation or a simplistic rejection of any change from Tolkien's vision. For that alone, you've won me over as a fan.
As someone who loved the books as a shining example of what can be done in that medium...and also loved the films as a crowning achieving within THAT medium...it's refreshing to find someone who can understand the inherent limitations and virtues of each. The plain fact is...the written word will always leave more room for nuance, for subtlety, and for depth than film, but that doesn't make film a bad medium to tell this sort of story. Film's strength lies in emotional connection. We are, of course, more than capable of emotionally connecting to characters from a written story, but nothing, and I mean nothing, carries more power than a real person in front of our eyes to connect.
As you rightly point out, Jackson's adaptation recognizes this, and his actors do as well. The story has to change a little to accommodate the reality that when we actually SEE Gandalf, we want to love him, and we want him to love us, in a much more visceral way.
I have no preference. Gandalf in the text is perfect for the text, and Galdalf in the films is perfect for the films.
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Book versus Movie Gandolf. I love them both. Could anyone imagine another actor playing Gandolf? He was amazing.
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In the Silmarilian, every time that the Valar got involved directly in trying to solve middle-earths problems, cataclysmic, continental destruction followed. (Like trying to fine-tune a race car with a sledgehammer.) Sending the wizards to resist Sauron in the 3rd age was the Valar finally realizing how fragile middle earth was. "Did I do that?" In Eurkle voice.
Your highlighting of the pessimism inherent in TLOR was brilliant, thank you
i discovered your channel this week and i think ive binged almost half of your entire catalogue already 😅
this is the exact channel i’ve been looking for. we need more girlies making cozy lotr content!!
I'm glad you enjoy my videos! It's lovely to have you in the community!
I never really got the idea of Gandalf being the source of the “turning of the tide” when he said those lines. To me, it was more of the tide has turned and Gandalf is just right on time for it. Anyway, great video!
I find that Norse view of courage interesting. In Swedish defence doctrine, this is still true. Swedes are still taught that in the case of an invasion "all information to the effect that resistance is to cease is false." Which is of course mostly a pragmatic strategy to show our enemy that it'd be really hard to completely destroy Sweden's defences, but I wonder still if it's a remnant of this old ideal of courage.
I saw the pre-fall Gandalf being more "human" as more a way of accentuating the post fall transformation than anything else.
It was probably to have him not take from the party while being a guide.
And the humanity and chill gandalf hanging out, is pretty integral to like him later when he is dropping that for the most part, but its clear he is both.
Enjoying and wanting the grounded and easiness of hobbits and trust and being chill and fun loving, but carrying the responsibility that he cant ignore that he cant.. The movies had to give the former part too. It might be too to highlight that in frodo to mirror the same different in gandalf?
And having him being more emotional close helps, it shows and sells also his trust in people, especially hobbits, showing closeness around them, and for that him showing emotions, really helps too
Gandalf's return was prompted by the Valar, and that in itself is part of (or at least a sign of) the tide turning. The Valar have not forsaken Middle-earth.
My 2 biggest problems between the book and movie Gandalf. #1 When Gandalf physically strikes Denethor like a child and said "Steward" showing a lack of respect. The book Gandalf would have never done such a thing and he had deep respect for the Lineage of the Stewards of Gondor. #2 When Gandalf was face to face with the Witch King in the extended cut and showed fear and terror. How lame. The Book Gandalf didn't show fear at all, he stood fast and was ready for whatever the Witch King would throw at him. Of course that clash was cut short by the horned arrival of the Rohirrim, and will be forever left to the Fanfic community to ponder what such a clash would have looked like....
I dig the points you made here, but I think you missed two important scenes. The first, when Gandalf is imprisoned by Saruman in the book, there is no confrontation. Saruman shows his vast army of orcs and Gandalf realized he would never get out alive. You could say the confrontation was necessary action in the movie, sure, but there's no fear shown by Gandalf like the movie. Same for the second scene: Gandalf vs. the Witch King in Gondor. In the book, Gandalf stands defiantly at the gate and tells the Witch King he will not pass. They have a tough parley and then the Witch King hears the crow's call and the horns of Rohan, and takes off. He had his chance to confront Gandalf and he blinked. Gandalf again shows no fear. The movie of course is far different, and the Gandalf there is shown fearful and overwhelmed and the Witch-King easily breaks his staff before flying off. This is significantly different, and for the worse, if you ask me. I suppose Jackson needed to balance out the characters or that the power dynamics demanded evil to be stronger for the screen, but the Gandalf I see in the book does not show this kind of fear ever. As he says at Fangorn: 'Dangerous!' cried Gandalf. 'And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord."
19:45 "In order to play it truthfully, the actor must find points of connection with this character"
Cate Blanchett laughs celestially.
Glad I got this video recommended to me. I am not a LOTR megafan but listening to people dissect interesting characters always brings a smile to my face. Helps transport my mind into a whole different, nicer world. Thanks!
I like to see the books and the movies almost as "one" - the things we see in the films are very much a lot of what happens in the books, and knowing what I know of the books and the larger story, it's nice knowing that things unseen in the movies will have still happened regardless maybe in a slightly different order or different way...
I really find it hilarious how Gandalf kind of has the "I'm sick of this shit" when it comes to certain things, I feel that the shouting at Bilbo we see on screen is the outcome of a longer back and forth between the two and Gandalf is just "okay I've had enough of arguing" - same with Pippin, he's consistently grinding his (Gandalf) gears even more so in Two Towers when he sees Pippin and Merry smoking and eating muttering "hobbits" to himself
Just some thoughts is all! Thanks for the video Jess, you earned a new sub!
I love the Gandalf nodding to jazz meme.
I tear up a bit when "Gandalf The White" leaves the hobbits at the shire.
I've been bingeing these lore videos for the past two or three days. They're so nostalgic! Your delight in the series shines through so much. My father used to fill me in on the deep LOTR lore over dinner, but I've never actually read the books myself. Unfortunately, I think I'm attached to hearing the lore spoken aloud, all scattered and out of order, with some opinionated tangents. I'm afraid if I finally read the series, I'll be demystified a bit.
Regardless, you storytelling is magical! Thank you so much for these videos and for brightening up my week 🌟
One major point that is important to note is Gandalf's encounter with the Witch King at the gates of Minas Tirith. The movie has Gandalf looking very much human, as the movie has the Witch King even breaking Gandalf's staff, whereas the book is clear that Gandalf was not intimidated by the Witch King at all. Gandalf was the Witch King's match and much more, but the wisdom of Gandalf was ever so demonstrated in his willingness to save Faramir, knowing that his doing so was much more needed than the events on the battlefield. And even then, his intentions were to confront the Witch King after he saved Faramir. So I pick the Gandalf of the books, and this is true for almost every single book vs movie character.
3:09 - much like the rest of us, Bilbo is terrified at the thought of _naked old men._
I haven't read the books in a long time, but I've been rewatching the movies recently, and I'm pretty sure at least in the movies, Gandalf is my favorite character
"...even if the universe is controlled beyond redemption by hostile and evil forces, that is not enough to make a hero change sides". God, I love this quote so much
These video essays are so well done. Thank you!
I'm so glad you enjoy them!
Loving the character breakdowns between movies/books. Keep em coming!
Tim Robinson immediately came to mind before the clip, brilliant.
I think Jess has much Numenorian in her bloodline. She is lovely and noble in bearing.
That "you will see gandalf uncloaked" line cracks me up so bad 😂.
Nice channel, love the in depth talk. Keep up the great work. Your channel is destined for greatness.🎉🎉
God bless you and your work young lady 💜💙💜 respect from Croatia 😇😇😇💙💚💙
Been so great watching your channel grow. Congrats Jess! Love the reference to the stain as well lol.
Thank you for highlighting Gandalf's quote at 15:04 about talking aloud. It is one of my top quotes from the books.
Gandalf's battle with The Balrog and his falling from the bridge was one of a very few times that tears were brought to my eyes by something I'd read in a story. The first time I read it, anyway. The endings of The Grapes of Wrath and Lolita choked me up a bit, too, but I wasn't 8 or 9 when I got around to reading those.
This was lovely, thank you!
LOVE YOUR STUFF! Keep up the great work and content!
I think hte line about not all tears being an evil, as well as Nienna's characterization in the Quenta Silmarillion, really emphasizes the etymology of "compassion" - if I can be a little flowery with it, it would be "we suffer together" or "I suffer with you". And this sense of the word in turn emphasizes the importance of *having* compassion when people are suffering or in pain. The hobbits are grieving many things there at the Grey Havens, and Gandalf - for whom, mind you, this is a pretty triumphant moment, the end of his hard labors - pauses to give space for that grief.
It's a resonant theme throughout LotR - that, as the world changes and new things come and old things pass, there is a deep sadness to it. But the idea is also there that progress, change, the passing of the torch, can only be staved off and the old things preserved for so long before it becomes an evil. Rivendell and Lothlorien must pass in their time. Even the Shire can only stand for so long. So to pass in your time is not evil, even though it is sad.
It's a great lesson that some people who are way too old to be holding on to that much money and that much political power need to learn. They are incapable of being the leaders we need because they belong to the time that has passed.
what an amazing video! great job Jess
Loving these comparisons. Keep it up!
Brilliant and beautiful analysis. Thank you.
Thank you, Jess. ❤❤
Your pronunciations of names is WONDERFUL.
Love this essay. Thank you.
Excellent essay. Always glad to see someone ready to point out some of the many flaws and shortcomings of these movies.
While I see how an old man’s threat of indecent exposure might not have seemed so dramatic on screen, when you consider his intimidating stance and the characters relative heights it really is quite menacing
I won't compare which is better: book or film. But I will say that film making as an art is primarily a visual medium. You can't have unemotional characters. They have to get angry. They have to get scared. They have to be unsure sometimes. They have to be sad and joyous sometimes.
I absolutely love your interpretations and insights.
What you're saying about the powers of good probably not winning in the end is echoed by a line Galadriel says in The Fellowship of the Ring:
"I have dwelt with [Celeborn] years uncounted; for ere the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin I passed over the mountains, and together through ages of the world we have fought the long defeat."
It is beautiful and sad.
Wonderful video. I now need a video ranking Gandalf's insults.
I just discovered this channel and so surprised not to see a video essay on the movie about Tolkien himself
The way I view Gandalf not participating in the battle at the black gate is that he’s looking at Mount Doom, because he knows the battle isn’t the important part, what is important is what happens with Sam and Frodo.
I just discovered your channel this week and I'm loving getting through all of your videos!! Are you going to be doing an Eowyn books vs movie video? I would love that
Enough about Gandalf, I want to know more about the cat on the mug
The cat is named Morris
@@Jess_of_the_Shire GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!
I'm pretty sure that's how most people imagined him in their mind when reading the books, given his description and all.
Loved the "I Think You Should Leave" overlay
amazing work! many ephemeral moments are noted that were easy for me to overlook
At 15:10 what struck me with how Gandalf comes off here again goes back to how secretly dangerous he is. He's not even thinking about what a sight he must be to his companions. Last they knew he was dead. For Gandalf, it's just one more tough enemy he had cast away. A balrog.
What a wonderful video to stumble across! Subbed! 😃
Now that I found this channel, I'll try and remember the many questions I have had about these movies/books.
Was pleasantly surprised to see a I Think You Should Leave reference in this video, I was even thinking about that bit when you read the passage of Gandalf explaining that the doors push open from the inside haha.