Kong Rong always reminds me of Ciccero, people that in a time of peace and stability could have been pillars of the nation, but ended up living in times of Chaos they tried to hold things together with words and paid the price of being men of peace in a time of war.
@@Leo-ok3uj While I can respect Kong I cannot respect Cicero. Cicero was a vindictive idiot when it came to all things concerning Ceasar. Ceasar would have been satisfied (at least initially) to end up being goven protection but Cato's willingness to have Ceasar killed instead of guranteeing Ceasars security was whar drove Ceasar to do what he eventually end up doing, Those two retards in Cato and Cicero braught it all upon themselves. So I may respect Cicero's rhetoric I will nevers respect him as a historical person.
I thought Sun Ce was going to be snubbed after dying at such an early age... yet he got a respectful gentlemen's third. Truly the greatest character in all of 3k
AGREED. Who did what Sun Ce did? No one. I regretfully agree with Serious Trivia though, in that Cao Cao and Liu Bei were more impactful to the broader conflict and direction. Can you imagine Sun Ce 'unleashed', as Serious Trivia puts it, on other areas of divided China? I think things would've gone SO much different. His ambition and talent would have HAD to be contended with. He would have left his mark ANYWHERE. Even more than Liu Bei, in my opinion, as it would seem that Liu Bei's path was affected much more by chance encounters or fate and THEN determined by Liu Bei's skill or ambition. Cao Cao, Cao Pi had trouble fighting against just THE LEGACY of Sun Ce...lol. The thing he made was strong and had real potential. ....and then his brother took over.
Seeing records that Guan Yu bolted through enemy lines like a torpedo to attack Yan Liang had to be one of the most absurd things I've ever read. There are likely a thousand men that were around that vicinity only that could have intercepted him only to have his long beard blow by and have their general swipe at him in one blow. Either they collectively didn't like their army or Guan Yu was a true madman.
You could also do a "historical characters who were not given special portraits, ranked by importance." - Liu Shan - Lu Xun - Sun Hao - Sima Zhao - Sima Shi - Zhuge Liang's kids and nephews, - Zhuge Jin - Lu Su (I mean, seriously, I get the other guys are not part of the main story, but missing Lu Su is actually kinda crazy) - Cao Zhen - Cao Shuang
Despite the exaggerations of romance in his portrayal, I still find Liu Bei's career truly admirable. From a mere commoner that sold straw mats to a ruler of a kingdom. Much like Mengde, he was able to surround himself with capable and loyal officers and did what was necessary to survive in a chaotic time. Even if that meant betraying the trust of his contemporaries and rivals. But many other warlords would've thrown others under the bus just to ensure the survival of his life or his clan. He also had the good fortune of surviving set-backs and recovering from situations that would've meant a certain death. And he was most certainly a charismatical and inspirational man considering the talented men that were at his service. From Mi Zhu to Zhuge Liang, they all served diligently and loyally to his master and never abandoned him. Though he didn't saw his aspirations fulfilled, he truly made a name for himself.
If anything, he is truly talented at attracting extremely skilled people and earning their loyalties. We've seen powerful and ambitious Warlords squandering their talented advisors and fall to Cao Cao.
That he was an average commoner is one of those things where the devil is in the details, his relatives offered to pay for a fancy education the type of which would lead to a prestigious role back then and he declined. The fact that he supposedly randomly become friends with Guan Yu and Zheng Fei is one of those things where ancient history is telling a few fibs one way or another, and given the other kingdoms didn't dispute his lineage ...
I would put Ma Teng and Han Sui in B. They actually did make huge differences in the outcomes of several situations, and were a constant headache for Cao Cao, unlike many other regional lords who just sat back and did next to nothing. Putting them on the same footing as someone like Tao Qian or Liu Zhang doesnt seem right. They were at least as significant as Gongsun Zan or Liu Biao. Those men of the frontiers weren't pushovers. The Ma clan is descended from Ma Qing, who was a famous general of the early Han. They also had significant ties with the Qiang, which often also made a difference, as they would slam into Cao Caos territory at the most inopportune times.... Other than Ma Teng/Han Sui, Wen Chou, and Yan Liang (Who should also rank higher. I once read that their deeds were already well known before the warring states had even happened. In fact, it was BECAUSE of their fame and talent Guan Yu became famous for defeating them) I think your list is spot on. Its also amusing to me that the best and most talented of the Xiahou clan is portrayed in most games as the worst of them (Xiahou Mao). Never quite understood why......
Oh wow, this came outta nowhere! What a fun video concept! I absolutely adore this sort of content that provides insight into the real world accomplishments of these now-mythologised figures.
I think Xun Yu should be in S tier, simply for giving Cao Cao so many talented generals and for being so important for every little thing when Cao Cao wasnt around
Agree, but disagree? Xun Yu is Cao Cao’s Zhuge Liang, as many would say, but once more, he passed too early to do that equal to Zhuge Liang, and also fallout between the master and the subject would have Xun Yu remove from history, say he does live on.
The only reason I'd disagree with Xun Yu in S tier is from a comparative argument. When we look at who made the S tier and consider the reasoning, it's quite clear that there is a distinction in scope between those and Xun Yu. I certainly don't mean to diminish Xun Yu's legacy or accomplishments at all.
Xun yu provided caocao with half his politicians Literally saved caocao from dying on turn 10 (when he controlled the rebellion during caocaos rampage in Xu) And then saved him again by jacking him up vs yuanshao (Caocao was ready to surrender)
I think an interesting idea based on this would be ranking the importance and accomplishments of different units, like the Tiger and Leopard Cavalry and White Horse Raiders. Great video Master Trivia!
Pang tong is my favorite drunk on the show three kingdoms. Awesome writing on that show. He goes to get a simply magistrate position Zhang fei finds him asleep and asks wtf he been doing the whole time and says I can do the entire week of work in a day. Then proceeded to do it and finishes the farm harvest by memory.
This is actually a remarkable summary of all the characters in the saga of the Three Kingdoms, both historical and fictional. Whenever I think of the Three Kingdoms I always feel great sadness. The games always meant to me, what if I can change this person's fate? What would happen? But all outcomes in games and books are simplistic, they cannot account for the complexity for even the least historically significant figure here, all of whom navigated through life as we do today. They loved and they fought and then they died. edit: Also a toast to Tiger Fool who I didn't expect to rank so highly and also my favourite character.
Good video, and I agree with your list. Sun Ce will always be the perfect example of a flame that burned into a conflagration in a short time with devastating results for history
Open rebellion leading to clan wide extermination is not the answer - love the delivery on that gem. Honestly I can't argue against your selections, your arguments are well thought out and it shows the effort you put in making this. Looking forward to the next one.
If anyone knows anything about Yu Jin, it's that he was ridiculously strict. In Liu Bei's early life let's talk lore series, you mentioned general Zhu Ling who was sent by Yuan Shao to aid Cao Cao against Tao Qian, Zhu Ling was so impressed by Cao Cao that he never returned to Yuan Shao. Well, Cao Cao for some reason didn't like him at one point and he sent Yu Jin to take command of Zhu Ling unit. The reason why he sent Yu Jin specificly was because Yu Jin was so strict that everyone was afraid of him and when he arrived, no one dared to move. Zhu Ling submitted and became Yu Jin's second in command. Zhu Ling is similar to Zhang He in way. They both served under Yuan Shao, they were very good general who were always someone's subordinates but they never complained. Zhu Ling was compared to Xu Huang and the two of the worked together during the battle of Tong Gate. Zhang He also definitely deserved more, he was a subordinate to Xiahou Yuan but there's an anegdote that when Liu Bei heard that Xiahou Yuan's was killed, he was sad that Zhang He wasn't killed instead because apparently he considered him superior and it was Guo Huai (the hero of first northern expedition) who suggested that Zhang He should be the one assume temporary command until Cao Cao arrives. If there was no battle at Jieting, I think Zhang He would never be considered as one of 5 elites nor gain his unique portrait.
xu chu is the best bodyguard to have in that era. dude was purely loyal to mengde and neutral to everyone, became disciplined and not arrogant as guan yu and zhang fei. The guy is like a secret service personnel lmao.
"Revelance" Haha. Love your stuff, brother. Hadn't seen your stuff since I played 3K years ago. Your Bannerlord playthroughs popped up for me and now I'm yearning for a new 3K campaign.
Of course, my opinion but Pang Tong and Fa Zheng deserve a tier higher as they were both the main strategists for Yi and Hanzhong which were the most important and greatest campaigns of Shu Han. Xu Shu never had the same importance as Pang Tong. Similarly, Zhang Fei for defeating Zhang He in Ba, covering Liu Bei's retreat at Changban and his victories over Liu Zhang generals alongside Wei Yan who defeated Guo Huai and Sima Yi should be A.
You know that ST is being impartial when you see Dian Wei in Tier C. I snickered as Sun Quan was begrudgingly given a S-tier ranking - ST first makes a disclaimer that Sun Quan is still worthy of S-Tier despite getting trashtalked a lot, and then proceeds to cold burn him anyway. If Guan Yu had stayed put and was wary against Lu Xun, Sun Quan would be getting his Hefei right there in the Jing province.
If I was a ruler I would want my Top General to be exactly how Zhao Yun functions. I am very biased on Zhao Yun because he is my favorite but when I try to look at him from a non-bias way, damn, the dude is perfection. Listens to orders to a tee Rescues a baby despite fighting and riding for over 12 hours and killing 50+ named generals who would serve as the heir to Shuhan Titled in some kind of way like "The Ever Victorious General" "The Long Winning General" Etc He has a very good and caring personality that even if you are the lowest of low in the hierarchy, he will still put his life out for you to be saved. Something I do not recall other generals doing. I am still watching the lets talk lore series so im speaking my opinion of course but WOW 10/10 list i cannot say anything to prove you wrong on this achievement list as I have tons of homework to do on this interesting era of China.😊
Great video. It really helps to contextualize who each of these people are when you're still new to the game or just interested in the history. I look forward to the next one!
Around 1:08:20 when you're talking about Cao Pi, was it common for there to be doubts between which son would inherit the father's land, titles, etc.? Was there ever any intense sibling rivalries formed by older siblings getting snubbed for younger ones? Great video by the way 😊
As a fun/interesting tidbit, about Yu Jin, you could take a look at his DW9 ending cutscene; they tried to write a fix/excuse for his betrayal/actions (even if its not historically accurate). I enjoyed the video btw.
It's frustrating that historically significant and pivotal characters like Du Ji, Lü Meng, Lou Gui, Ju Shou and worse Zhu Jun (who doesn't even get a unique background) don't get unique art when some utterly insignificant dudes do. Many of the guys I listed would end up on your A tier. Du Ji (maybe) and Lü Meng would be S tier for sure. Zhu Jun for example would have been a better faction leader choice for the Mandate of Heven Campaign than Zhu Zhi, given Zhu Jun was the Grand Commandant who brought the Yellow Turbans to heel with the help of Huangfu Song and not to mention the man also has a pretty neat rags to riches story.
Sun Quan, failing his way to S tier. He'd drink to that! And Liu Bei's lack of quality strategists really shows itself on this list. Wei and Wu had such a surplus of quality minds, but Liu Bei pretty much had Zhuge Liang and a bunch of people who died too young.
Plus if we are honest Zhuge Liang really was only a B tier lister; he failed almost every battle/campaign that he was in charge of. His real strengths were in logistics however and was basically running Shu-Han. Shu really didn't have any true strategists in my opinion.
@@rickieivory9068 Honestly i would like to see how Zhao Yun fare as Strategist,Hes one of the first guy who use Empty Fort strategy in Three Kingdoms and his advice to go to war with Wei rathen than Wu after Guan Yu dead is remarkable
another one eye blind nonsense. When one is much smaller and poorer than his enemy, what Zhuge Liang has achieved and fought is beyond any of your cowardly assumptions. @@rickieivory9068
16:54 Agree, but then again, Zhang Zhao and Sun Ben were pretty close followers to Founder Sun Ce, aren’t they? So even say Huang Gai was close, is it really that unbelievable?
My boy Yuan Tan was ranked ahead of his jerk little brother, which is all I could ask for. In all seriousness, very interesting video it was great to hear the summaries of all these people’s achievements.
I'm glad you put Lady Bian in A tier, I read about several events mentioning her and if someone asks me who is my historical idol, I would pick her without second thought. It's interesting when you think about Jia Nanfeng from eight princes, her and Lady Bian are completely opposite.
damn, imagine not liking your wife so much that you have to build an entirely new city just to get away from her (ngl though, Liu Bei always seems like he gets portrayed with a bit of an effeminate nature, not like how DWs does with Zhang He but still)
What the hell serious Trivia?? I had my earphones on and this video was a little louder than usual. It starts off with a "HELLO EVERYONE!!" that made me spill my coffee
I was pretty sure that Sun Ce will be much lower on the list because of his short life yet he truly deserve the high S by his achievements. To be honest I think Xun Yu should be in S by his significant role in Wei when Cao Cao was campaigning and Dong Zhuo should be higher than Yuan Shao, but it could be affected by my personal opinion of the latter. Nevertheless, absolutely brilliant job ST.
I believe the death of Pang Tong set off a chain of events that lead to Guan Yu's death, which led to Zhang Fei's death and Yiling. From which Shu never recovered.
@@ssss8162 I a nutshell, had Pang Tong not died, Zhuge Liang could've have stayed in Jing with Guan Yu. Had he done that, Wu would never have betrayed Shu.
I rewatched the entire video again. Idk if you did this type of video already but I think a character feats video would be great for all characters. A single video dedicated to talking and fanboying over a hero's feats and accomplishments during this period😊
I hear you on the point about Zhang He not leading troops as a high commander himself. And to me, that is something I can't understand about his career - one of Zhang He's must remarkable achievements IMO was when he was completely cut off from any communication and reinforcements when he was stuck in Ba Commandery, not taking orders from anyone. He demonstrated his acumen by repelling Zhang Fei's initial attack, holding his men together, and then leading them across the mountains safely back to their own land. That's SO hardcore, and it's what inspired his TW3K ability "Geographic Mastery" for goodness sake! Why didn't his bosses just give him more responsibility, given his proven capability as a leader?
To his bosses, that result of that battle was still a loss. It was a great escape but still not a win. So it is hard to reward him for that. It is like if Zhang Liao lost Hefei but dealt a huge blow to Sun Quan in the 215 siege, no one would have blamed him and what he would have done would still be impressive. But he would not be rewarded with a key command post for that. The fact he won against all odds is what pushed him to being the man in Hefei from that point on.
@@SeriousTrivia You’re right, I didn’t think of it like that. I guess it’s like what Zhao Yun said, “To bestow reward for no merit is against the rules of reward and punishment.”
@@Zooasaurus Another factor to consider is his Xuchang imperial tutor Xun Yue, who had proposed an interesting government reform that emphasized more on meritorious officials than a series of capable regents or chancellors
I also would like to see a video on characters that deserved unique status and didn’t receive it. Like perhaps Lu Meng, Lu Xun, Lu Su, Xun Yue, Cheng Yu or some others you think more deserved unique status.
They are nondeployable characters and are not included. Also it’s weird to rank emperor and empress because they are of course significant even though they didn’t do anything
I am definitely biased as he is my fav character but I think Zhou Yu should be S tier Sun Ce achieves the S rank despite having an even shorter life and Zhou Yu was there for the south conquests and the how much of the a turning point in the trajectory of Cao Cao Chibi would be
Ooooh... you could do a unit version of this, where you rank the unit's historical accuracy or significance in contributions. I did seem to remember Zhuge Liang having a unit of Shu elite archers for his campaign, but I don't think they're represented... maybe they're the Yi marksmen?
I would have loved seeing Gao Shun serve under Cao Cao had he not refused to surrender. Feel like he was a great talent but served under a less competent leader.
agree since, they were the top 2 loyal subordinates to lu bu. Lubu - want to serve but died cuz of his reputation gao shun - loyal to lubu zhang liao - knew that lubu was a madman and seek better lord like cao cao. so yeah if gao shun copied zhang liao, he would be legendary as him.
i think you gotta rank "sickness" and "old age" in S tier man, they were the pair that finally officially ended all the warlords and three kingdoms period.
I've seen names like Lu Xun and Lu Meng being thrown as S-Tier worthy figures, though which other non-artwork characters would you personally consider worthy of being in S-Tier? (Lets limit it a bit more too, exclude the Jin court and thus "the three Simas who eat from the Cao trough")
Lu Meng is probably only low A, high B. Lu Xun can be S. That is probably the only one because if you didn't get art, you probably were not that important (or were in later periods and that would be most of your Jin related characters)
@@SeriousTrivia Definitely agree about Lu Meng, his deed of killing Guan Yu and quick seizure of Jing seems a bit of an overhighlighing to due an S-Tier (with reasons in caveat for the latter) Though about Lu Xun being the only one pre-Jin non-artwork figure deserving an S-Tier, I am still a bit unconvinced. Especially regarding Lu Su and Zhuge Jin, who were both very instrumental in crafting the repeatedly present (though lapses in case of Guan-Zhang's death + Yiling) Sun-Liu Alliance. I was thinking that due to the gravity of the Sun-Liu Alliance (again even if it wasn't continuous) which did shape how the three kingdoms interracted with each other up till Shu-Han fell and thus undeniably an integral part of the history, perhaps either both Lu Su and Zhuge Jin, or at least one of them (depending on how long they serve Sun Quan) gets a spot at S-Tier? what do you think about this? I'm also passionate in reading about this time period and I'm quite curious about your opinion of this one.
@TheSeaAsian neither Zhuge Jin or Lu Su had much of a military career or military success to push them into this tier. While they played a key role in pushing for the Sun Liu alliance, it was still more an alliance of necessity and probably would have happened either way had they not been the ones to push for it. Lu Xun on the other hand played roles in the assault on Guan Yu, the defense of Yiling, and then shifted to becoming the commander of the Wu western front in the Jing Province. He also basically ran the Wu imperial court in Wuchang as the prime minister of Wu while Sun Quan was shifting the capital to Jianye. Given his longevity in the position and the impact of his son in Lu Kang, it’s hard to minimize the contribution of Lu Xun to Wu.
@@SeriousTrivia In that case, they would be in A-tier around Zhang Zhao by the looks of it. A-Tier seems like a place where you can find the more "background" characters who had quite a significant impact to the founding of either Three Kingdoms be placed in. That makes me wonder if other less celebrated early retainers of either three make it to A-Tier. Some that came in my mind include Cheng Yu and Zhong Yao for Wei and Mi Zhu for Shu, Perhaps some in this "early bird" category who have more under their belt accomplishments further in their lives would belong to A-Tier or are they condemned to be put lower?
@@TheSeaAsian I think you will find this video helpful. Tier List of the Top 150 Character Who Needs Artworks In Total War Three Kingdoms 2 ua-cam.com/video/xPHlOPDroW4/v-deo.html
very cool project, enjoyed listening a lot. I have a comment on yuan tan however, and im curious about your perspective. It seems to me like yuan tan might be deserving of an asterisk compared to many of the Cs he was mentioned along with due to his notable successes in beating tian kai and securing eastern ji province, as well as beating Kong Rong and securing Qing. I don't know many details about these events however, so perhaps i am overestimating the opposition he faced.
Seems kind of crazy to put Guan Yu at the bottom of S tier when the man was literally deified. No other participant in the Thee Kingdoms period can make that claim.
It would be very different and very hard to rank since the novel is all over the place with how strong someone is. And for the same character at different point in the story depending on the story needs could be stronger or weaker and lacks consistency
I think Shi Xie deserves a better place, if not from Chinese perspective. I'm not sure about the historicity of his role in the creation of Vietnamese civilization claimed by later generations, I'd be surpised if that baseless :) Great video btw!
There is an impact but I didn’t want to rank by legacy since that gets complicated for a lot of people so this one is just based on what their impact was in their lifetime
It's interesting that despite the Xiahou duo being treated by pop culture as Cao Cao's equivalent of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei, they never made it to the Five Elites.
You have my man Sun Ce at THIRD. Unacceptable, sir. I want my money back. Seriously, I think, though he is recognized by many for his skill in warcraft and charisma, I'm not certain most realize how insane his feats were. The warlords of the north couldn't do what he did. You could make a successful argument that the talent and conflict had greater density and so it was much harder to take and maintain ground (than it was for Sun Ce in the south). I don't think I'd disagree but I also do not think it was THAT much different. In my opinion, no one did what Sun Ce did, in so short a time and generated the amount of respect from their commanders and other subordinates. Yuan Shu most likely soiled himself and thanked his god each time he met with Sun Ce that he wasn't melted by the Sun. I can only assume those pages of the historical annals were lost to time or treachery. I really appreciate your style! As I watched the video, I was impressed by your sense of fairness. You convinced me with a few of the rankings. After seeing their visage, their announcement and being surprised at their ranking, I listened to your reasoning and found that I agreed. Well done. I'll be following. o7
Hedong county youth who committed a crime that was bad enough that that he changed his name and fled his home commandery. Pretty much a nobody or a delinquent youth.
I think He Jin probably deserves a higher rank. After all, he did achieved the rank of Grand General (Da Jiang Jun) which historically was only held by few people in the 3K or near 3K era. Besides, if wasn't for him, Dong Zhou might not even exists in this novel which was the main catalyst for the whole event. For better or worse, I think He Jin's achievement and role in rotk is quite understated.
I thought Kong Rong would have gone in the D tier, with how much dislike you have shown for him in the past. I will probably listen to the whole thing tonight to fall asleep but that one stood out.
Man I love these videos. I'm curious, do you have characters, in game or actual history, that you consider some of your personal favorites? Either by achievements/victories or just because you like them?
I have always regarded Liu Bei higher than Cao Cao. Comparing with Cao Cao, Liu Bei's rise was meteoric, able to talk his way into things simply on the force of his character and guile. While Cao Cao was certainly able, he was born into privilege and prime position, being both close to the capital as well as a rich home province to fall back to, not to mention his cousins helping out. In terms of personal achievements, rising from a shoemaker to emperor is pretty hard to beat. The failures to reestablish the Han should be not held against him, his own sense of loyalty that carried him was also his downfall. Being heroic notwithstanding, Liu Bei has been giving hope to the downtrodden since his own death. Especially when reading the context of Romance in the late Song dynasty.
Hey ST! Love this tierlist. Would you be interested in expanding this with other historically relevant characters not in the game? Especially those from the later periods of 3k. I get you've covered this in other videos here and there, but it would be great to see how you rate their achievements against this tierlist you made here. E.g. Wu: Lu Xun, Lu Su, Lu Fan, Zhuge Jin, Zhu Ran Shu: Jiang Wei, Wang Ping, Ma Su, Ma Liang, Wu yi, Mi Zhu Wei: Guo Huai, Man Chong, Cao Zhen, Deng Ai, Zhong Hui, Hao Zhao Ofc with any others i would have likely missed.
Great Tier List ST Just curious but given Zhang Fei's feat at ChangBan would that have netted him a higher rank or was his lack of much historical achievements dropped him to B tier. Would also like to see a list of perhaps top 10 generics with significant historical achievement with characters like Lu Xun and Mi Zhu.
![FILMMAKER REACTS: TOTAL WAR: THREE KINGDOMS | [ALL TRAILERS!!]](/img/n.gif)
Kong Rong always reminds me of Ciccero, people that in a time of peace and stability could have been pillars of the nation, but ended up living in times of Chaos they tried to hold things together with words and paid the price of being men of peace in a time of war.
Trash talks his boss to the point he and his closest family members tastes the chopping block
@@shinsenshogun900 hahahaha
@@shinsenshogun900
Cicero in a nutshell too
Just change Cao Cao with Antonius
i hate cicero
@@Leo-ok3uj While I can respect Kong I cannot respect Cicero. Cicero was a vindictive idiot when it came to all things concerning Ceasar. Ceasar would have been satisfied (at least initially) to end up being goven protection but Cato's willingness to have Ceasar killed instead of guranteeing Ceasars security was whar drove Ceasar to do what he eventually end up doing, Those two retards in Cato and Cicero braught it all upon themselves. So I may respect Cicero's rhetoric I will nevers respect him as a historical person.
I thought Sun Ce was going to be snubbed after dying at such an early age... yet he got a respectful gentlemen's third. Truly the greatest character in all of 3k
Better than what his younger brother Sun Quan rob from him in his death XD
AGREED. Who did what Sun Ce did? No one.
I regretfully agree with Serious Trivia though, in that Cao Cao and Liu Bei were more impactful to the broader conflict and direction.
Can you imagine Sun Ce 'unleashed', as Serious Trivia puts it, on other areas of divided China? I think things would've gone SO much different. His ambition and talent would have HAD to be contended with. He would have left his mark ANYWHERE. Even more than Liu Bei, in my opinion, as it would seem that Liu Bei's path was affected much more by chance encounters or fate and THEN determined by Liu Bei's skill or ambition.
Cao Cao, Cao Pi had trouble fighting against just THE LEGACY of Sun Ce...lol. The thing he made was strong and had real potential.
....and then his brother took over.
Seeing records that Guan Yu bolted through enemy lines like a torpedo to attack Yan Liang had to be one of the most absurd things I've ever read.
There are likely a thousand men that were around that vicinity only that could have intercepted him only to have his long beard blow by and have their general swipe at him in one blow. Either they collectively didn't like their army or Guan Yu was a true madman.
"If you create your own kingdom, you deserve to be in the S-tier"
Yuan Shu: Am I joke to you?
Everyone that ever knew him: Yes!!
Yuan Shu is the "Thanquil" of the Three Kingdoms!
Yuan Shu is the "Thanquil" of the Three Kingdoms!
@@MidnightBlackandVictoria except even more self sabotaging
@@NP3GA HAHA yeah. And who DOESNT love a bumbling villain.....
You could also do a "historical characters who were not given special portraits, ranked by importance."
- Liu Shan
- Lu Xun
- Sun Hao
- Sima Zhao
- Sima Shi
- Zhuge Liang's kids and nephews,
- Zhuge Jin
- Lu Su (I mean, seriously, I get the other guys are not part of the main story, but missing Lu Su is actually kinda crazy)
- Cao Zhen
- Cao Shuang
I also thingking about Lu Su, Ling Tong, Liu Ba, Li Yan, even Sima Hui
Despite the exaggerations of romance in his portrayal, I still find Liu Bei's career truly admirable. From a mere commoner that sold straw mats to a ruler of a kingdom. Much like Mengde, he was able to surround himself with capable and loyal officers and did what was necessary to survive in a chaotic time. Even if that meant betraying the trust of his contemporaries and rivals. But many other warlords would've thrown others under the bus just to ensure the survival of his life or his clan.
He also had the good fortune of surviving set-backs and recovering from situations that would've meant a certain death. And he was most certainly a charismatical and inspirational man considering the talented men that were at his service. From Mi Zhu to Zhuge Liang, they all served diligently and loyally to his master and never abandoned him. Though he didn't saw his aspirations fulfilled, he truly made a name for himself.
If anything, he is truly talented at attracting extremely skilled people and earning their loyalties. We've seen powerful and ambitious Warlords squandering their talented advisors and fall to Cao Cao.
Being humble really goes a long way
He also seems like the least hateable out of all the contestants of the 3K era.
That he was an average commoner is one of those things where the devil is in the details, his relatives offered to pay for a fancy education the type of which would lead to a prestigious role back then and he declined. The fact that he supposedly randomly become friends with Guan Yu and Zheng Fei is one of those things where ancient history is telling a few fibs one way or another, and given the other kingdoms didn't dispute his lineage ...
I would put Ma Teng and Han Sui in B. They actually did make huge differences in the outcomes of several situations, and were a constant headache for Cao Cao, unlike many other regional lords who just sat back and did next to nothing. Putting them on the same footing as someone like Tao Qian or Liu Zhang doesnt seem right. They were at least as significant as Gongsun Zan or Liu Biao. Those men of the frontiers weren't pushovers. The Ma clan is descended from Ma Qing, who was a famous general of the early Han. They also had significant ties with the Qiang, which often also made a difference, as they would slam into Cao Caos territory at the most inopportune times....
Other than Ma Teng/Han Sui, Wen Chou, and Yan Liang (Who should also rank higher. I once read that their deeds were already well known before the warring states had even happened. In fact, it was BECAUSE of their fame and talent Guan Yu became famous for defeating them) I think your list is spot on.
Its also amusing to me that the best and most talented of the Xiahou clan is portrayed in most games as the worst of them (Xiahou Mao). Never quite understood why......
Oh wow, this came outta nowhere! What a fun video concept! I absolutely adore this sort of content that provides insight into the real world accomplishments of these now-mythologised figures.
He stole my idea!! Lmfao.
I think is might be hands down ST's best youtube video to date.
I think Xun Yu should be in S tier, simply for giving Cao Cao so many talented generals and for being so important for every little thing when Cao Cao wasnt around
He achieved much in the eyes of others however failed himself in the process.
Xun Yu was Cao Cao's best minister straight up
Agree, but disagree? Xun Yu is Cao Cao’s Zhuge Liang, as many would say, but once more, he passed too early to do that equal to Zhuge Liang, and also fallout between the master and the subject would have Xun Yu remove from history, say he does live on.
The only reason I'd disagree with Xun Yu in S tier is from a comparative argument. When we look at who made the S tier and consider the reasoning, it's quite clear that there is a distinction in scope between those and Xun Yu.
I certainly don't mean to diminish Xun Yu's legacy or accomplishments at all.
Xun yu provided caocao with half his politicians
Literally saved caocao from dying on turn 10 (when he controlled the rebellion during caocaos rampage in Xu)
And then saved him again by jacking him up vs yuanshao (Caocao was ready to surrender)
I think an interesting idea based on this would be ranking the importance and accomplishments of different units, like the Tiger and Leopard Cavalry and White Horse Raiders. Great video Master Trivia!
Lü Bu: Bastard of three fathers
Guan Yu: Chad of three state funerals
xD
Huanfu Song has the best vest in the game.
Great tier list! This actually also serves as a great and efficient refresher into who each historical character of the game is
Yuan Shu: suffering from "success"
His shadow lingers in every nightmare of so many legendary people of the three kingdoms
Xiahou Dun might only be B tier but that guy will forever a badass to me because of Dynasty Warriors 3
Pang tong is my favorite drunk on the show three kingdoms. Awesome writing on that show. He goes to get a simply magistrate position Zhang fei finds him asleep and asks wtf he been doing the whole time and says I can do the entire week of work in a day. Then proceeded to do it and finishes the farm harvest by memory.
This is actually a remarkable summary of all the characters in the saga of the Three Kingdoms, both historical and fictional. Whenever I think of the Three Kingdoms I always feel great sadness. The games always meant to me, what if I can change this person's fate? What would happen? But all outcomes in games and books are simplistic, they cannot account for the complexity for even the least historically significant figure here, all of whom navigated through life as we do today. They loved and they fought and then they died.
edit: Also a toast to Tiger Fool who I didn't expect to rank so highly and also my favourite character.
Good video, and I agree with your list. Sun Ce will always be the perfect example of a flame that burned into a conflagration in a short time with devastating results for history
I do wonder how much the course will change would Sun Ce not die then. To achieve so much at such a young age.
Open rebellion leading to clan wide extermination is not the answer - love the delivery on that gem.
Honestly I can't argue against your selections, your arguments are well thought out and it shows the effort you put in making this. Looking forward to the next one.
If anyone knows anything about Yu Jin, it's that he was ridiculously strict.
In Liu Bei's early life let's talk lore series, you mentioned general Zhu Ling who was sent by Yuan Shao to aid Cao Cao against Tao Qian, Zhu Ling was so impressed by Cao Cao that he never returned to Yuan Shao.
Well, Cao Cao for some reason didn't like him at one point and he sent Yu Jin to take command of Zhu Ling unit. The reason why he sent Yu Jin specificly was because Yu Jin was so strict that everyone was afraid of him and when he arrived, no one dared to move. Zhu Ling submitted and became Yu Jin's second in command.
Zhu Ling is similar to Zhang He in way. They both served under Yuan Shao, they were very good general who were always someone's subordinates but they never complained.
Zhu Ling was compared to Xu Huang and the two of the worked together during the battle of Tong Gate.
Zhang He also definitely deserved more, he was a subordinate to Xiahou Yuan but there's an anegdote that when Liu Bei heard that Xiahou Yuan's was killed, he was sad that Zhang He wasn't killed instead because apparently he considered him superior and it was Guo Huai (the hero of first northern expedition) who suggested that Zhang He should be the one assume temporary command until Cao Cao arrives. If there was no battle at Jieting, I think Zhang He would never be considered as one of 5 elites nor gain his unique portrait.
La p lo
This is brilliant. I nominate this as ST's best ever UA-cam feature/video to date. Bravo!
Suprised that Xu Zhu is ranked at S tier while the likes of Xun You, Zhou Yu is only A tier
xu chu is the best bodyguard to have in that era. dude was purely loyal to mengde and neutral to everyone, became disciplined and not arrogant as guan yu and zhang fei. The guy is like a secret service personnel lmao.
finally my boy Guan Yu gets the respect he deserves
Ikr? Such an underrated character. Imagine if more people knew about him, he’d probably be deified.
@@deennice6035 He is worship as a god. Idk is that underated or overated.
@@herbangm.naibaho5405 sarcasm/joke by Deennice I think ;)
The tier list also reminds me how many key characters are still missing from the game, such as Lu Xu and Lu Meng, they are definitely A if not S
remains me Lu kang, Lu Xun's son, whom played an important role in late time of Wu campaign
"Revelance"
Haha.
Love your stuff, brother. Hadn't seen your stuff since I played 3K years ago. Your Bannerlord playthroughs popped up for me and now I'm yearning for a new 3K campaign.
Of course, my opinion but Pang Tong and Fa Zheng deserve a tier higher as they were both the main strategists for Yi and Hanzhong which were the most important and greatest campaigns of Shu Han. Xu Shu never had the same importance as Pang Tong. Similarly, Zhang Fei for defeating Zhang He in Ba, covering Liu Bei's retreat at Changban and his victories over Liu Zhang generals alongside Wei Yan who defeated Guo Huai and Sima Yi should be A.
You know that ST is being impartial when you see Dian Wei in Tier C.
I snickered as Sun Quan was begrudgingly given a S-tier ranking - ST first makes a disclaimer that Sun Quan is still worthy of S-Tier despite getting trashtalked a lot, and then proceeds to cold burn him anyway. If Guan Yu had stayed put and was wary against Lu Xun, Sun Quan would be getting his Hefei right there in the Jing province.
If I was a ruler I would want my Top General to be exactly how Zhao Yun functions. I am very biased on Zhao Yun because he is my favorite but when I try to look at him from a non-bias way, damn, the dude is perfection.
Listens to orders to a tee
Rescues a baby despite fighting and riding for over 12 hours and killing 50+ named generals who would serve as the heir to Shuhan
Titled in some kind of way like
"The Ever Victorious General"
"The Long Winning General"
Etc
He has a very good and caring personality that even if you are the lowest of low in the hierarchy, he will still put his life out for you to be saved. Something I do not recall other generals doing.
I am still watching the lets talk lore series so im speaking my opinion of course but WOW 10/10 list i cannot say anything to prove you wrong on this achievement list as I have tons of homework to do on this interesting era of China.😊
Great video. It really helps to contextualize who each of these people are when you're still new to the game or just interested in the history. I look forward to the next one!
Around 1:08:20 when you're talking about Cao Pi, was it common for there to be doubts between which son would inherit the father's land, titles, etc.? Was there ever any intense sibling rivalries formed by older siblings getting snubbed for younger ones?
Great video by the way 😊
I would say refer to Cao Pi's lore series for details
Look no further than Yuan Shao’s inheritance
Great video idea! Your advanced knowledge of the lore really makes you the best 3K content-creator around :)
I'm here early like Sun Ce's death!
As a fun/interesting tidbit, about Yu Jin, you could take a look at his DW9 ending cutscene; they tried to write a fix/excuse for his betrayal/actions (even if its not historically accurate). I enjoyed the video btw.
tierlist and lore in the same video? amazing
A very good video showcasing an informed perspective into the Three Kingdoms history and differentiating fictitious and real feats.
WAT U DOIN HERE
great tier list video, its interesting to see which characters had significant historical importance and which where glorified by romance.
I would still argue for Zhou Yu to be in S-tier. He might have died at a young age, but had already served 15 years or so.
It's frustrating that historically significant and pivotal characters like Du Ji, Lü Meng, Lou Gui, Ju Shou and worse Zhu Jun (who doesn't even get a unique background) don't get unique art when some utterly insignificant dudes do. Many of the guys I listed would end up on your A tier. Du Ji (maybe) and Lü Meng would be S tier for sure. Zhu Jun for example would have been a better faction leader choice for the Mandate of Heven Campaign than Zhu Zhi, given Zhu Jun was the Grand Commandant who brought the Yellow Turbans to heel with the help of Huangfu Song and not to mention the man also has a pretty neat rags to riches story.
I think you should do a lore series on every S tier like Xu Chu which backstory of his is not well known
Nice one! thanks for the analysis and lore drops :D loved it :)
Sun Quan, failing his way to S tier. He'd drink to that!
And Liu Bei's lack of quality strategists really shows itself on this list. Wei and Wu had such a surplus of quality minds, but Liu Bei pretty much had Zhuge Liang and a bunch of people who died too young.
Plus if we are honest Zhuge Liang really was only a B tier lister; he failed almost every battle/campaign that he was in charge of. His real strengths were in logistics however and was basically running Shu-Han. Shu really didn't have any true strategists in my opinion.
@@rickieivory9068 Honestly i would like to see how Zhao Yun fare as Strategist,Hes one of the first guy who use Empty Fort strategy in Three Kingdoms and his advice to go to war with Wei rathen than Wu after Guan Yu dead is remarkable
another one eye blind nonsense. When one is much smaller and poorer than his enemy, what Zhuge Liang has achieved and fought is beyond any of your cowardly assumptions.
@@rickieivory9068
16:54
Agree, but then again, Zhang Zhao and Sun Ben were pretty close followers to Founder Sun Ce, aren’t they? So even say Huang Gai was close, is it really that unbelievable?
My boy Yuan Tan was ranked ahead of his jerk little brother, which is all I could ask for. In all seriousness, very interesting video it was great to hear the summaries of all these people’s achievements.
I'm glad you put Lady Bian in A tier, I read about several events mentioning her and if someone asks me who is my historical idol, I would pick her without second thought. It's interesting when you think about Jia Nanfeng from eight princes, her and Lady Bian are completely opposite.
Ima tu jos ljudi sa balkana :)
@@Rinne0000 Makarska, ti?
@@josiplucic7077 Zagreb, imas discord?
Making a list like this must have been an insane amount of effort, it's well thought through though
Great job on making this list
damn, imagine not liking your wife so much that you have to build an entirely new city just to get away from her (ngl though, Liu Bei always seems like he gets portrayed with a bit of an effeminate nature, not like how DWs does with Zhang He but still)
What the hell serious Trivia?? I had my earphones on and this video was a little louder than usual. It starts off with a "HELLO EVERYONE!!" that made me spill my coffee
seems the same when compared to my latest videos but sorry?
That’s riiiightttttt!! Big daddy Cao Cao sits on top of the list!!!!!!!
I was pretty sure that Sun Ce will be much lower on the list because of his short life yet he truly deserve the high S by his achievements. To be honest I think Xun Yu should be in S by his significant role in Wei when Cao Cao was campaigning and Dong Zhuo should be higher than Yuan Shao, but it could be affected by my personal opinion of the latter. Nevertheless, absolutely brilliant job ST.
I believe the death of Pang Tong set off a chain of events that lead to Guan Yu's death, which led to Zhang Fei's death and Yiling. From which Shu never recovered.
That's a pretty interesting take
@@ssss8162 I a nutshell, had Pang Tong not died, Zhuge Liang could've have stayed in Jing with Guan Yu. Had he done that, Wu would never have betrayed Shu.
I rewatched the entire video again. Idk if you did this type of video already but I think a character feats video would be great for all characters. A single video dedicated to talking and fanboying over a hero's feats and accomplishments during this period😊
Great video master ST
I hear you on the point about Zhang He not leading troops as a high commander himself. And to me, that is something I can't understand about his career - one of Zhang He's must remarkable achievements IMO was when he was completely cut off from any communication and reinforcements when he was stuck in Ba Commandery, not taking orders from anyone. He demonstrated his acumen by repelling Zhang Fei's initial attack, holding his men together, and then leading them across the mountains safely back to their own land. That's SO hardcore, and it's what inspired his TW3K ability "Geographic Mastery" for goodness sake! Why didn't his bosses just give him more responsibility, given his proven capability as a leader?
To his bosses, that result of that battle was still a loss. It was a great escape but still not a win. So it is hard to reward him for that. It is like if Zhang Liao lost Hefei but dealt a huge blow to Sun Quan in the 215 siege, no one would have blamed him and what he would have done would still be impressive. But he would not be rewarded with a key command post for that. The fact he won against all odds is what pushed him to being the man in Hefei from that point on.
@@SeriousTrivia You’re right, I didn’t think of it like that. I guess it’s like what Zhao Yun said, “To bestow reward for no merit is against the rules of reward and punishment.”
Love how Liu Xie isn't even in the list ahahaha. Some A and S placements rub me the wrong way, but historicity alone allows for such comparatives.
I’ll place him in the B tier… for being significantly weaker
I'm of the opinion that Liu Xie could've been at least a decent Emperor had he actually ruled
@@Zooasaurus Another factor to consider is his Xuchang imperial tutor Xun Yue, who had proposed an interesting government reform that emphasized more on meritorious officials than a series of capable regents or chancellors
I love these videos man
Kind of funny seeing Huang Zhong ranked as the lowest tiger general considering Guan Yu’s reaction to his appointment in the story
I like these long videos keep up the good work 👍🏻
I also would like to see a video on characters that deserved unique status and didn’t receive it. Like perhaps Lu Meng, Lu Xun, Lu Su, Xun Yue, Cheng Yu or some others you think more deserved unique status.
Thank you for making this tier list!
Did we miss someone? Emperor Liu Hong and Empress He, they also need to be graded.
They are nondeployable characters and are not included. Also it’s weird to rank emperor and empress because they are of course significant even though they didn’t do anything
I am definitely biased as he is my fav character but I think Zhou Yu should be S tier Sun Ce achieves the S rank despite having an even shorter life and Zhou Yu was there for the south conquests and the how much of the a turning point in the trajectory of Cao Cao Chibi would be
I will rate The Burning Mace as the #1 strongest character in the game. It literally can beat 100% evasion He Man and Zhao Yun no problem. lol
Yuan Shu is like the ultimate troll.
Ooooh... you could do a unit version of this, where you rank the unit's historical accuracy or significance in contributions.
I did seem to remember Zhuge Liang having a unit of Shu elite archers for his campaign, but I don't think they're represented... maybe they're the Yi marksmen?
oh yeah you mentioned them, the wudang feijun.
Great video, makes me want to start a new campaign. Is there a mod list you run posted somewhere?
I actually typically do not play with mods but MTU is a great mod
I would have loved seeing Gao Shun serve under Cao Cao had he not refused to surrender. Feel like he was a great talent but served under a less competent leader.
agree since, they were the top 2 loyal subordinates to lu bu.
Lubu - want to serve but died cuz of his reputation
gao shun - loyal to lubu
zhang liao - knew that lubu was a madman and seek better lord like cao cao.
so yeah if gao shun copied zhang liao, he would be legendary as him.
I personally would push Xu Hoang to the top of B tier, Wang Lang next to Huangfu Song and push Gan Ning down to the bottom of A. Very cool idea!
i think you gotta rank "sickness" and "old age" in S tier man, they were the pair that finally officially ended all the warlords and three kingdoms period.
also add the "heaven's will" lmao. the real silent killer
Romance of the Tier Lists!
this is quite interesting, i wonder if you could do a battle tier list as well
I've seen names like Lu Xun and Lu Meng being thrown as S-Tier worthy figures, though which other non-artwork characters would you personally consider worthy of being in S-Tier?
(Lets limit it a bit more too, exclude the Jin court and thus "the three Simas who eat from the Cao trough")
Lu Meng is probably only low A, high B. Lu Xun can be S. That is probably the only one because if you didn't get art, you probably were not that important (or were in later periods and that would be most of your Jin related characters)
@@SeriousTrivia Definitely agree about Lu Meng, his deed of killing Guan Yu and quick seizure of Jing seems a bit of an overhighlighing to due an S-Tier (with reasons in caveat for the latter)
Though about Lu Xun being the only one pre-Jin non-artwork figure deserving an S-Tier, I am still a bit unconvinced. Especially regarding Lu Su and Zhuge Jin, who were both very instrumental in crafting the repeatedly present (though lapses in case of Guan-Zhang's death + Yiling) Sun-Liu Alliance.
I was thinking that due to the gravity of the Sun-Liu Alliance (again even if it wasn't continuous) which did shape how the three kingdoms interracted with each other up till Shu-Han fell and thus undeniably an integral part of the history, perhaps either both Lu Su and Zhuge Jin, or at least one of them (depending on how long they serve Sun Quan) gets a spot at S-Tier? what do you think about this?
I'm also passionate in reading about this time period and I'm quite curious about your opinion of this one.
@TheSeaAsian neither Zhuge Jin or Lu Su had much of a military career or military success to push them into this tier. While they played a key role in pushing for the Sun Liu alliance, it was still more an alliance of necessity and probably would have happened either way had they not been the ones to push for it.
Lu Xun on the other hand played roles in the assault on Guan Yu, the defense of Yiling, and then shifted to becoming the commander of the Wu western front in the Jing Province. He also basically ran the Wu imperial court in Wuchang as the prime minister of Wu while Sun Quan was shifting the capital to Jianye. Given his longevity in the position and the impact of his son in Lu Kang, it’s hard to minimize the contribution of Lu Xun to Wu.
@@SeriousTrivia In that case, they would be in A-tier around Zhang Zhao by the looks of it.
A-Tier seems like a place where you can find the more "background" characters who had quite a significant impact to the founding of either Three Kingdoms be placed in. That makes me wonder if other less celebrated early retainers of either three make it to A-Tier.
Some that came in my mind include Cheng Yu and Zhong Yao for Wei and Mi Zhu for Shu, Perhaps some in this "early bird" category who have more under their belt accomplishments further in their lives would belong to A-Tier or are they condemned to be put lower?
@@TheSeaAsian I think you will find this video helpful.
Tier List of the Top 150 Character Who Needs Artworks In Total War Three Kingdoms 2
ua-cam.com/video/xPHlOPDroW4/v-deo.html
Jia Xu deserves his own let’s talk lore!!! You should do it!
I agree
very cool project, enjoyed listening a lot. I have a comment on yuan tan however, and im curious about your perspective. It seems to me like yuan tan might be deserving of an asterisk compared to many of the Cs he was mentioned along with due to his notable successes in beating tian kai and securing eastern ji province, as well as beating Kong Rong and securing Qing. I don't know many details about these events however, so perhaps i am overestimating the opposition he faced.
if the yellow turbans can beat Kong Rong, then I am not going to give Yuan Tan much credit for doing the same
Seems kind of crazy to put Guan Yu at the bottom of S tier when the man was literally deified. No other participant in the Thee Kingdoms period can make that claim.
Would you consider doing a video on romance achievements? Or would it be too similar to this one.
It would be very different and very hard to rank since the novel is all over the place with how strong someone is. And for the same character at different point in the story depending on the story needs could be stronger or weaker and lacks consistency
I wish they'd let you play Nanban in 182/Yellow Turban Rebellion/Mandate of Heaven Era. :(
Wow finally someone on the internet that knows that Romance of the Three Kingdoms is fictional
Did you ever make a video about historical characters that SHOULD have a special art work in the game?
Yep! Tier List of the Top 150 Character Who Needs Artworks In Total War Three Kingdoms 2
ua-cam.com/video/xPHlOPDroW4/v-deo.html
This is first bits of actual history I hear about sima yi and paints him as patient crafty smart. Will stop there as don't wanna spoil manga tho.
ST’s famous hate for Kong Rong is strong in this video :P
I think Shi Xie deserves a better place, if not from Chinese perspective. I'm not sure about the historicity of his role in the creation of Vietnamese civilization claimed by later generations, I'd be surpised if that baseless :)
Great video btw!
There is an impact but I didn’t want to rank by legacy since that gets complicated for a lot of people so this one is just based on what their impact was in their lifetime
@@SeriousTrivia He's one of the few Chinese officials in the Northern Dominion Eras of Vietnam that were appreciated by Vietnamese.
It's interesting that despite the Xiahou duo being treated by pop culture as Cao Cao's equivalent of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei, they never made it to the Five Elites.
Five elite was given to non relatives of Cao Cao so they never qualified for it in the first place
Maybe I would put Sima Yi lower and Lu Bu higher, but other than that I agree with the list. Even discovered some characters I didn't know.
You have my man Sun Ce at THIRD. Unacceptable, sir. I want my money back.
Seriously, I think, though he is recognized by many for his skill in warcraft and charisma, I'm not certain most realize how insane his feats were. The warlords of the north couldn't do what he did. You could make a successful argument that the talent and conflict had greater density and so it was much harder to take and maintain ground (than it was for Sun Ce in the south). I don't think I'd disagree but I also do not think it was THAT much different.
In my opinion, no one did what Sun Ce did, in so short a time and generated the amount of respect from their commanders and other subordinates. Yuan Shu most likely soiled himself and thanked his god each time he met with Sun Ce that he wasn't melted by the Sun. I can only assume those pages of the historical annals were lost to time or treachery.
I really appreciate your style! As I watched the video, I was impressed by your sense of fairness. You convinced me with a few of the rankings. After seeing their visage, their announcement and being surprised at their ranking, I listened to your reasoning and found that I agreed.
Well done. I'll be following. o7
Do we know about Guan Yu's background? I am only familiar with Romance of Three Kingdoms, and it's kinda hard to believe he's just a nobody.
Hedong county youth who committed a crime that was bad enough that that he changed his name and fled his home commandery. Pretty much a nobody or a delinquent youth.
@@SeriousTrivia Thank you! I really enjoy your 3K content. It's really enjoyable listening to your lecture.
Great video and thanks for your hard work.
If Lu Xun was on this list, where would you put him at?
Probably second half of the S tier
I think He Jin probably deserves a higher rank. After all, he did achieved the rank of Grand General (Da Jiang Jun) which historically was only held by few people in the 3K or near 3K era. Besides, if wasn't for him, Dong Zhou might not even exists in this novel which was the main catalyst for the whole event. For better or worse, I think He Jin's achievement and role in rotk is quite understated.
I mean an in-law of the emperor getting that position means very little of actual accomplishment
I thought Kong Rong would have gone in the D tier, with how much dislike you have shown for him in the past. I will probably listen to the whole thing tonight to fall asleep but that one stood out.
Man I love these videos. I'm curious, do you have characters, in game or actual history, that you consider some of your personal favorites? Either by achievements/victories or just because you like them?
personal favorite characters of the Three Kingdoms period for me are Cao Cao, Zhao Yun, and Zhuge Liang in no particular order
I now want to see an isekai with a lady taking the moniker of the made up bandit from this game. :P
I have always regarded Liu Bei higher than Cao Cao. Comparing with Cao Cao, Liu Bei's rise was meteoric, able to talk his way into things simply on the force of his character and guile. While Cao Cao was certainly able, he was born into privilege and prime position, being both close to the capital as well as a rich home province to fall back to, not to mention his cousins helping out.
In terms of personal achievements, rising from a shoemaker to emperor is pretty hard to beat. The failures to reestablish the Han should be not held against him, his own sense of loyalty that carried him was also his downfall. Being heroic notwithstanding, Liu Bei has been giving hope to the downtrodden since his own death. Especially when reading the context of Romance in the late Song dynasty.
Hey ST! Love this tierlist. Would you be interested in expanding this with other historically relevant characters not in the game? Especially those from the later periods of 3k. I get you've covered this in other videos here and there, but it would be great to see how you rate their achievements against this tierlist you made here.
E.g. Wu: Lu Xun, Lu Su, Lu Fan, Zhuge Jin, Zhu Ran
Shu: Jiang Wei, Wang Ping, Ma Su, Ma Liang, Wu yi, Mi Zhu
Wei: Guo Huai, Man Chong, Cao Zhen, Deng Ai, Zhong Hui, Hao Zhao
Ofc with any others i would have likely missed.
Yes there might be one in the future on those missing artworks
If we're going to put Guan Yu in S based on his legacy and impact then Lu Bu should have also been an easy S.
Zhao Yun on the same tier as Zhuge Liang😮
Amazing video, could you do one for the MTU generals?
Most of those are F tier characters since they typically like to add a bunch of fictional but popular characters
Great Tier List ST
Just curious but given Zhang Fei's feat at ChangBan would that have netted him a higher rank or was his lack of much historical achievements dropped him to B tier.
Would also like to see a list of perhaps top 10 generics with significant historical achievement with characters like Lu Xun and Mi Zhu.
He didn’t actually roar at changban
Ah that makes alot more sense now
I love this.
I miss ST Tier List