I know you posted this almost a year ago, but I just want to say I deeply appreciate how thorough you are in your videos. I’ve learned so much. I haven’t played a total war game since Rome II- and I was horrendous at it back then. I’m taking my time with this, getting completely immersed in the setting. Your guides have helped me have a great time. The learning curve is steep, and I’m a sore loser, so these guides are keeping me playing. Thank you.
Random question: does Sun Jians skill tree at 32:44 look the same as in your campaign? In my game Sun Jian starts with Understanding, not Bravery - which means I cant get Composure (night battles) at lvl 5.
@@pierreofmontecristo2730 I got the 1.7.1 bugfix mod, but that's it. No clue what exactly it fixes, but I figured it wouldn't hurt. I guess the guide was made for 1.7.0 and his skill tree was changed in 1.7.1. it doesn't change much in the end, but definitely caused some confusion.
Sun Jian and even more so Sun Ce, just have such good faction mechanics/bonuses and they start next to some of the best commanderies with lots of unique officers. Easily the strongest faction in the game.
These guides are so good because you explain the reasonning behind your decisions. I learn so much about the game, even if I don't follow the steps exactly.
As a Taiwanese 3K player, I am having a little hard time to go through the whole English guide since there is not much Chinese guides out there as the option for me. But the thing that amazes me is that your chinese pronopunciation is so freaking good. Thanks for this awasome guide. Keep it going.
Ah yes, Sun Jian, one of the faction i was looking up to use once i own the game. because sadly, i have no money now :( . But thanks to you, i know what to do before i'm playing it. Because you also give the guide that's updated with the game mechanic update. So thank you.
Nice video! BTW, the imperial seal event triggers after you conquer 3 regions, you can be playing turn 20 with only 2 regions in your posesion without the event pops out.
I usually rush to get Shangyong weapon craftsmen on turn 2 and recruit my other generals to get the rest of Changsha. Its pretty much the same timeline as your guide but the difference is I don't invest much into building since I have Lady Wu and Cheng Pu on the field. Be aware though that the biggest disadvantage of Merc Cap Retinue is they need to be summoned in the commandery where you have a Merc Outpost which isn't very practical
By the way, if play as He Yi you can actually play with living Sun Jian...I alway start eliminate Liu Biao's vassals and then himself, coz don't want have big trouble with Liu Bei on late game.
Excellent updated guide..especially mentioning Cao Cao's damn constant scheming. Almost appears that the AI cheats as he just schemes and schemes constantly against you somehow. Anyway, thanks again! ST is the only Tuber that I will sit and watch for an entire hour on a single video. An hour worth it if you are gaming one of the best Total War games out there currently!
Aaaah finally ! My favorite faction 💪 The faction with which if you’re too friendly with everyone, you’re in trouble hhh (‘cause you need some enemies to keep the faction mechanics good)
but him taking the seal and leaving the alliance is entirely fictional. Historically Sun Jian was always just a general working under Yuan Shu. So if you want a more historically accurate version of the start then Sun Jian shouldn’t even be a vassal but just another officer under Yuan Shu’s faction
@@SeriousTrivia TBF they probably made them their own faction for Sun Quan more than anyone and the fact that its such a legendary lineage. And while he (Jian) most likely died in such an anti climatic way (I choose to believe the Archer ambush story, just seems more epic but i know it was probably the damn boulder), He just jumps off the page in stories about him. If there is one thing all these generals were truly great at, it was marketing themselves lol.
@@kevinharding3281 see I have never played and I won't even start till I discover parameters.(What's posable).so it is interesting to hear you mention accurate history.
At about 52:00 you mention that Lu Fan "gets along" with both Sun Jian and Huang Gai. This reminds me of the challenge that I set myself in a World Betrayed Sun Ce game: No Conflict Allowed! All members of the council had to get along with all other members and all armies had to have leaders that got along with each other. In short, you were never allowed to see a red X on the faction screen or in an army. (I was allowed to have administrators that didn't get along with Sun Ce and/or his council, because that doesn't cause a red X.) It was a fun game. I exiled my brother to Taiwan at some point (and then granted him independence) and married my mother off to some other faction leader (when Sun Ce stopped getting along with both of them), and had to divorce my first wife, which was especially amusing. But I managed to obey the rule from beginning to end, even leaving a few council slots open for quite a long time. You should try this.
@@SeriousTrivia Yep. It was rather funny. At some point early in the game, I choose a personality attribute that made both Sun Quan and my mother dislike me. (I can't remember the details, but I think it was something to get Cheng Pu like me more.) So, mom got kicked from the council and little brother got sent to Taiwan. Of course, like all Sun Ce games, I was just biding time until Sun Ren showed up.
I am watching this in preparation for a head to head campaign I am doing with my friend tomorrow, I am playing Sun Jian and he is playing Liu Yan, wish me luck!
Already played this faction myself, but ended up watching anyway. Had an idea I haven't thought to much about or tested, but I wondered if it would be possible to: 1. Give Liu Biao seal when he asks for it 2. Use the 1 gold gift repeatedly to get the +80 relations with Liu Biao up on same turn 3. Make a trade to get seal back 4. Have seal, but also be able to take and develop Han lands south of river earlier since Liu Biao won't get in the way Trade with Liu Biao or vassal if possible and maybe take trade agreement in tech tree, instead of recruitment cost that wont be needed as much, to use on 1 of the factions discovered during early expansion.
I've never played as one of the historical 3 kingdom progenitors but Sun Jian is probably going to be the one I play first so I can keep Sun Jian alive, he seemed like an okay guy, plus instant merc armies and Commerce bonanza
I remember all the time when I get a massive empire sun jian would always be like the "final boss" in the south. still don't expand near him to this day
Great Video! Sun Jian is one of the most broken factions with him and Sun Ce's bonus for halving settlement costs, which makes it free I don't know if that's a bug or not, but I love it.
When you recruited the trebuchets with Chen Gong, you can just recruit the mercenary axemen and then the trebuchets. They will appear almost fully replenished.
I've been going through all your guide videos and they've been helping me so much learn my first total war game. At 22:45 you say to check the earlier version of the guide on how to do a manual siege of Nan, Jiangling but I couldn't find the fight, even the video that says outdated you delegated the battle. Could you give me a link or the title of the video to check it out?
its been too long for me to recall which video I am referring to (it might be the campaign let's play series) but just wondering, what is the issue you are having with the siege of Nan?
@@SeriousTrivia I saw your tutorial battle and some other battles in your Cao Cao tutorial campaign lets play, so I know some tips and strategies for open field battles. But Nan has those barricades, archer towers/gates (not sure what they are called) and generally harder for me due to more units. Any tips for that is appreciated.
assuming you are attacking it without any siege weapons, the trick would be to fully utilize your general's abilities. Any AOE ability such as Flame of the Phoenix can be spammed (charge in to a crowd, use the ability, charge out and wait for cooldown). Saving your units until your generals are tired out (or until one of your generals successfully captured the towers) will help you take the city. While not necessarily a siege battle using Sun Jian, there is an early game Liu Bei guide that show how to use just generals to take a walled settlement.
Blazing down south actually has me scared cuz once it gets to 197, I get the sudden low emperor's favor and added with the low faction support and poor starting economy, it's a little harder to manage rebellions, characters, and the added corruption
Im sorry but the siege of Chibi is absolutely hilarious to think about 2 guys just bringing a town to a standstill by standing at the entrances. Then they proceed to murder ~80 people each lol
Speaking of cao cao schemes, I once had Han dang as a general with a full stack of cavalry, and he did the scheme which reduces the charge of the cavalry, when I clicked the unit they had literally 0 charge, and when I moved him Han dang just disappeared. From the game. Entirely. With all the items I gave him. And I know for sure he wasn’t a spy because I didn’t get any notification.
@@SeriousTrivia But would he have continued that? Most of his ablest generals were loyal to him personally as well as his men. The Jade Seal incident clearly shows his own ambition. I think Sun Jian, like Sun Ce, would try to establish his own domain South.
@@aaryeekd.mishra3487 I think that he would’ve done so much later though. ST has mentioned multiple times Sun Jian gave the seal to Yuan Shu before his death. So this leads me to believe that he would be loyal until he declared the Zhong dynasty. From how I see it, Wu might be weaker coming into Chi Bi if it was Sun Jian who was leading it.
love your vids mate. Been playing this game for a few months now, but shockingly never played sun jian lol. love ur wide range of lets play and different series. as a unique character/gear collecter (i love doing this, not sure y) i struggle quite a bit to collect all unique characters (maybe becuz i have no idea how to use spy feature to its fulliest or good way to bring in heroes through annex/unify). if possible, would u be able to make a "guide" or play through on how to collect all (or nearly all) unique characters as well as unique weapon/horses?
When do you put Sun Ce in for Heir? Right away, or when cavalry becomes more available to the Sun faction? As mid-late game approaches, where would you advise the Imperial Capitol sit? I'd like to keep mine as historic as I'm able, but was there a settlement that would have had his ancestors or best economy? I'm loving the lore series and just trying to tie it all up.
So Sun Ce should be heir once you start getting more higher level generals which unlocks your unique cavalry! Luckily Danyang is their historical capital and a great income commandery in the game
I mean hiding out in Taiwan is not exactly challenging. It will just be me sitting there for the first 30 turns doing nothing lol aside from a clickbait title, it doesn't even sound like a fun viewing experience
I feel like there are some DLC changes I'm missing (I only have the base game): Sun Jian is starting with Stability instead of Bravery, and I don't see the "you lost {x} imperial favor" prompt when winning in battle against a Han force. What am I missing?
with 7 characters total in the Imperial Court with Understanding Skill + reforms that grant 1 additional rank for each unit type (provided i'm not misremembering), it'd be possible to get rank 9 recruits; wouldn't rank 9 mercenary retinue recruits be much more powerful than mercenary captain retinues to the point of making said captain retinues obselete?
yes and no. sometimes you just want a cheap and weak army for that turn which is what mercenary units are good for. You recruit them, use them, then disband them and they end up costing you very little since there are a lot of recruitment discounts and with no mustering time, you don't have to pay any upkeep compared to regular troops
@@SeriousTrivia that's a good point. although, i think we can also agree that if it's Mercenary Captain Retinue stack vs a stack of Rank 9 Mercenary Retinue recruits, the Retinue recruits would probably win in a landslide strength wise.
Amazing video!! I learned a lot. Quick question. How come the units you recruit for Sun and Gai don't need to be healed? Don't they normally all have to be healed for few turns?
I've only won a few campaigns, and none of them have been on legendary. I exclusively use commanders for heir and nothing else. Is there ever a point in hiring a commander to be an army general? I am genuinly confused as to what they actually provide other than faction satisfaction
they provide formations so say you want an all cavalry army with no strategists then they would be a good choice (pre battle that is, you would still want someone with reach to lead it up until you have to fight then swap them).
I am totally new to the game and I choose Sun Jian, but why did I not start from where you started? Was it because of the DLC? I think it was before 190
@@SeriousTrivia i restarted the game and started at 190. And am watching all your videos but still I am a little bit lost lol. But thank you for your wonderful videos
when Sun Ce comes of age, immediately make him your heir. Skill Tree for Sun Jian and for most characters should be focused on either active ability for battle or skills with faction wide effects as he is your leader
how do you fight back liu baio if he does different things, in my game he sailed down the river instead of doing nothing. So in that senario do i just go up and attack him, or let him take the settlement? And if he appears infront of you on land, do you attack him there?
check out the earlier versions of this guide (there is one where you beat his army in Changsha then peace out), there is also a version where you just go ahead and attack him from the beginning. And yes you do attack him
Can you still capture Quan Rou in the first battle? I've tried legendary and even easy difficulty and delegating kills him every time... Ive attempted 10 times now (I know you don't need to delegate)
@@SeriousTrivia I noticed the troop numbers were different for me, retinues were 40 men instead of 120 in your guide, so the overall battle was smaller although my capture chances were still 76%, would that affect it? Also thank you for the reply🙌
Question for serious trivia Lu Bu is impossible to steal from big daddy dong in the 190 start he always seems to be super happy in the faction, even when dong dies he doesn't join rebellions anymore I have played the first 30ish turns in 10 or so campaigns since 1.7 and you just can't steal him or have him crop up in the recruitment pool. Do you have any workarounds? (non modded)
If Dong dies and the civil war event happen, then he still has a decent chance to show up in the pool. Like look at my coop with MrSmartDonkey, Dong died, civil war, and Lu Bu went over to MrSmartDonkey. I think it is the same as before. I never had any luck turning him as a turncoat before the patch either. It is usually he turns up in recruitment pool or he doesn't.
Have you had a campaign where you had the emperor but chose NOT to restore the Han? Just found out there are actually some long-lasting harsh punishments for that, made even more noticable as you lost all the bonuses from imperial favor. To be specific I was playing Lu Bu and giving up the throne was just not an option, as his whole faction mechanic breaks upon that happening. Basically unless you intend to restore the Han, capturing the emperor will actually hurt your campaign. Ironic they made it this way since that's what historically happened.
Lu Bu is a very different case because the faction mechanic requires Lu Bu to be your leader. Try getting him killed, those same mechanics will break too. It has nothing to do with restoration
@@SeriousTrivia I got it during a recent Cao Cao campaign as well, it’s called “A New Dynasty”. -2k population growth fw, -15 public order fw, -15 relations with Han factions, and +6% replenishment fw. All of that for 15 turns.
@@SeriousTrivia It's called "A New Dynasty" or something like that, lasts for 20 turns I think? Increases faction-wide corruption, lowers public order, and makes relations with other factions worse. On the flip side it gives replenishment. It's almost like a duplicate of Lu Bu's existing mechanics, funny enough. And yeah I did double check to make sure I didn't just mistook Lu Bu's existing mechanics for something else. There's also no satisfaction debuff so it's not meant to cancel out imperial favor bonuses. And yeah when Lu Bu passed on the throne I actually got the pre-patch message that he died and personal victories could be reset to 0, though he's still in the court, but my kill list was no longer active.
Find him two characters that he likes (green check marks) and then fight with them often to build up their friendship to oathsworn. After that you just abuse Zhou Tai’s ability to kill enemy infantry with repeated charges. If he takes damage then rest a bit to heal up and rinse and repeat.
@@SeriousTrivia I think I saw that sword with Sima Yue in 8 Princes ... speaking of, any love for those guys? I am just considering which one of the princes to play
Seeing the seal reminds me: they listened to you and gave it to Cao Cao in the 200 campaign. Still waiting for Yuan Shu and Liu Hong to get it in their campaigns, though. Shouldn't there be eight or so seals anyway?
There were six emperor seals but this one in particular was used for symbolizing inheriting the empire so it has special meaning. The others were used for more administrative things. The Empress also has her set of seals too
Hey ST I was wondering, do you know if there’s any historical reasoning behind sun jian having mercenaries? Was there a lot of mercenaries from the South during the 3K era or something?
not at all, if anything it is just a game design decision to some units similar to other total war titles with instant recruitment. There is no historical link between the south and mercenary troops or Sun Jian with mercenary troops
Its been so long since i played sun jian, but i read somewhere that if u play sun jian campaign, u can replinish units even in enemy territories? is this true by any means? im only up to the 10 min mark, so apologies if u mention this somewhere later in the video
@@SeriousTrivia You know when you click new game, then choose a leader and THEN you see a screen with your leader on the left, a map of China in the middle and the faction details on the right. You can change the stating date, options and romance on/off from there. In this video, instead of that screen you have Sun Jian in the middle, flanked by his court and they all look super cool. I have Sun Jian and I thought all the DLC but I don't know how to get this screen.
you can swap between the map and the character view with the button in the middle of the screen. I think it should default to characters too assuming you are on any patch after 1.6 I think
Is that general’s satisfaction always the reason for them to left you? Since I just started to play this game so I followed your guid for a while, then I started to play it on my own, and Chong Pu left me after a few turns. Could my enemy did something to cause him left me?
even if they turncoat him, he would have to have low satisfaction. Aside from that there is no other reason a general that started with you from the beginning (thus not a spy) will ever leave you
Are you using any mods? I found out several times that the game was stopped working for some reasons and this could be because of the extra mods I’m using
@@SeriousTrivia ok ty for the reply. I was curious if it could lead to more vassal independence and if that is a worthwhile condition for a buffer zone to He Man or Cao Cao
Do Sun Jian's generals get access to the Tiger Guard and Handmaid Guard when they reach sufficient rank, or are those units exclusive to Sun Ce's faction?
Lady Wu and Lu Su always looks like this unless you have a mod that changes their portraits. Da Qiao and Xiao Qiao are not guaranteed spawns for Sun Jian's faction. Their event is based on Sun Ce's faction.
I don't see why you would want that since you are going to be wiping them out eventually for your challenge. It is not like they will pay you much. The only faction that you can get some money from is supporting Yuan Shu's legitimacy, but personally I do not like supporting Yuan Shu lol so it is up to you
there is no effect really for the court positions before you hit king (aside from faction leader, heir, and prime minister). You really only want to use them on your highest rank and lowest satisfaction characters.
@@SeriousTrivia thanks for answering, 2 more questions, if a building chain requires a resource that isn’t a part of its commandery but you do have that resource in another commandery, can you build that building in the original commandery or do you need both resources in the commandery, and where are entrepreneurs located? Thanks
I had bad experience play Sun Jian, the heroism not as great as Caocao and Liu Bei's mechanism. Not all the legendary Wu characters joined my court. I had to capture Da Qiao on the battlefield. Then I couldn't marry Da Qiao to Sun Quan as somehow there were related!!! It was really messed up....One of my pet hate is why the game still showing you lost imperial favour after you became emperor? It that still relevant? Have to say I enjoyed Sun Ce's campaign more. Sharing the character experience is very powerful ( using Trivia's term lol). Keep up the good work buddy. Who should I play next YuanShao or Goingsun Zan?
zei or 贼 means thief so Dong Zei is a name given to Dong Zhuo and Cao Cao even as Cao Zei was quite common too as both of them were stealing the power of the Emperor
@@SeriousTrivia I see. Thanks for the quick reply! Pretty ironic coming from the guy holding the imperial seal. I know romance portray him as a patriot but still....
This video give me a challange idea, no recalling generals to move, once summoned on the field it need to stay on the field, maybe i will give it a try to see hos stupid it will be :D
Sun Tzu predates Sun Jian by more than 700 years. Sun Jian makes this claim, but there are no historical records to support this claim and more often than not it is just one of those claims to make the clan sounds better than it really is. Feel free to check out the Sun Jian lore series where I cover this.
I know you posted this almost a year ago, but I just want to say I deeply appreciate how thorough you are in your videos. I’ve learned so much.
I haven’t played a total war game since Rome II- and I was horrendous at it back then.
I’m taking my time with this, getting completely immersed in the setting. Your guides have helped me have a great time. The learning curve is steep, and I’m a sore loser, so these guides are keeping me playing.
Thank you.
well said!
Random question: does Sun Jians skill tree at 32:44 look the same as in your campaign? In my game Sun Jian starts with Understanding, not Bravery - which means I cant get Composure (night battles) at lvl 5.
@@bali4n1 for me its the same. Do you have mods installed?
@@pierreofmontecristo2730 I got the 1.7.1 bugfix mod, but that's it. No clue what exactly it fixes, but I figured it wouldn't hurt.
I guess the guide was made for 1.7.0 and his skill tree was changed in 1.7.1. it doesn't change much in the end, but definitely caused some confusion.
God, I’d forgotten how powerful Sun Jian was.
Trivia: It's a powerful weapon, keep it close
Me: *has Percy Jackson movies flashbacks*
Sun Jian and even more so Sun Ce, just have such good faction mechanics/bonuses and they start next to some of the best commanderies with lots of unique officers. Easily the strongest faction in the game.
My new fav TW3K UA-camr! Really knowledgeable and binge worthy videos. Keep up the good work you deserve way more subs
These guides are so good because you explain the reasonning behind your decisions. I learn so much about the game, even if I don't follow the steps exactly.
As a Taiwanese 3K player, I am having a little hard time to go through the whole English guide since there is not much Chinese guides out there as the option for me. But the thing that amazes me is that your chinese pronopunciation is so freaking good. Thanks for this awasome guide. Keep it going.
Ah I am Chinese! Your written English is excellent! 有什么疑问，用中文留言。我尽量回答（繁体也没问题）
@@SeriousTrivia 原來如此! 哈哈 我剛入坑這遊戲 感覺要學的很多 之後有困難再請教你 感恩 BTW影片做得很好 :)
No wonder names didnt sound fake.
Ah yes, Sun Jian, one of the faction i was looking up to use once i own the game. because sadly, i have no money now :( . But thanks to you, i know what to do before i'm playing it. Because you also give the guide that's updated with the game mechanic update. So thank you.
Nice video! BTW, the imperial seal event triggers after you conquer 3 regions, you can be playing turn 20 with only 2 regions in your posesion without the event pops out.
Fatuous lord next please!!! Keep up the magnificent material
I usually rush to get Shangyong weapon craftsmen on turn 2 and recruit my other generals to get the rest of Changsha. Its pretty much the same timeline as your guide but the difference is I don't invest much into building since I have Lady Wu and Cheng Pu on the field. Be aware though that the biggest disadvantage of Merc Cap Retinue is they need to be summoned in the commandery where you have a Merc Outpost which isn't very practical
By the way, if play as He Yi you can actually play with living Sun Jian...I alway start eliminate Liu Biao's vassals and then himself, coz don't want have big trouble with Liu Bei on
late game.
Excellent updated guide..especially mentioning Cao Cao's damn constant scheming. Almost appears that the AI cheats as he just schemes and schemes constantly against you somehow. Anyway, thanks again! ST is the only Tuber that I will sit and watch for an entire hour on a single video. An hour worth it if you are gaming one of the best Total War games out there currently!
Aaaah finally ! My favorite faction 💪
The faction with which if you’re too friendly with everyone, you’re in trouble hhh (‘cause you need some enemies to keep the faction mechanics good)
Just turn tax up super high and farm Yellow Turban rebellions.
I always wished Sun jian starts as a vassal to Yuan Shu. Would be historically accurate and a very interesting start.
He isn't a vassal when be takes the imperial seal and leaves the alliance before dying, is he? That wouldn't make much sense
but him taking the seal and leaving the alliance is entirely fictional. Historically Sun Jian was always just a general working under Yuan Shu. So if you want a more historically accurate version of the start then Sun Jian shouldn’t even be a vassal but just another officer under Yuan Shu’s faction
@@SeriousTrivia TBF they probably made them their own faction for Sun Quan more than anyone and the fact that its such a legendary lineage. And while he (Jian) most likely died in such an anti climatic way (I choose to believe the Archer ambush story, just seems more epic but i know it was probably the damn boulder), He just jumps off the page in stories about him. If there is one thing all these generals were truly great at, it was marketing themselves lol.
@@kevinharding3281 see I have never played and I won't even start till I discover parameters.(What's posable).so it is interesting to hear you mention accurate history.
@@Powd3r81 thank you so nothing is pre destined.good very well the game might be what I'm hunting.
At about 52:00 you mention that Lu Fan "gets along" with both Sun Jian and Huang Gai. This reminds me of the challenge that I set myself in a World Betrayed Sun Ce game: No Conflict Allowed! All members of the council had to get along with all other members and all armies had to have leaders that got along with each other. In short, you were never allowed to see a red X on the faction screen or in an army. (I was allowed to have administrators that didn't get along with Sun Ce and/or his council, because that doesn't cause a red X.)
It was a fun game. I exiled my brother to Taiwan at some point (and then granted him independence) and married my mother off to some other faction leader (when Sun Ce stopped getting along with both of them), and had to divorce my first wife, which was especially amusing. But I managed to obey the rule from beginning to end, even leaving a few council slots open for quite a long time. You should try this.
Sun Quan finally found Taiwan! Well done!
@@SeriousTrivia Yep. It was rather funny. At some point early in the game, I choose a personality attribute that made both Sun Quan and my mother dislike me. (I can't remember the details, but I think it was something to get Cheng Pu like me more.) So, mom got kicked from the council and little brother got sent to Taiwan.
Of course, like all Sun Ce games, I was just biding time until Sun Ren showed up.
As an old TW player, exploits are actually the spice of life. Loop all the way.
Quan Rou was a good administrator for Wu in history, joining with Sun Ce for a dutiful minor role
New that we have got some Han out the way, maybe a bandit faction next? The queen needs some respect
I am watching this in preparation for a head to head campaign I am doing with my friend tomorrow, I am playing Sun Jian and he is playing Liu Yan, wish me luck!
tyvm, this is what I was waiting for.
I think in all my 500 hours in the game, I’ve never fought sun jian in the field 😂 but great guide, will definitely give him a try
Already played this faction myself, but ended up watching anyway.
Had an idea I haven't thought to much about or tested, but I wondered if it would be possible to:
1. Give Liu Biao seal when he asks for it
2. Use the 1 gold gift repeatedly to get the +80 relations with Liu Biao up on same turn
3. Make a trade to get seal back
4. Have seal, but also be able to take and develop Han lands south of river earlier since Liu Biao won't get in the way
Trade with Liu Biao or vassal if possible and maybe take trade agreement in tech tree, instead of recruitment cost that wont be needed as much, to use on 1 of the factions discovered during early expansion.
definitely worth a try
the Granting Independence strategy is 500 IQ move, I would say
I would love another Sun Jian campaign with this new patch
great guide as always, I literally starve your videos on this point
Good stuff mate. Nothing like starting a campaign with that many unique units!
An full stack AI army see an city with noone guarding it, next turn there a full stack of mercenary inside the city
I've never played as one of the historical 3 kingdom progenitors but Sun Jian is probably going to be the one I play first so I can keep Sun Jian alive, he seemed like an okay guy, plus instant merc armies and Commerce bonanza
I remember all the time when I get a massive empire sun jian would always be like the "final boss" in the south. still don't expand near him to this day
Great Video! Sun Jian is one of the most broken factions with him and Sun Ce's bonus for halving settlement costs, which makes it free I don't know if that's a bug or not, but I love it.
This guide is really good. Cheesey but unique. Very powerful faction, it seems.
When you recruited the trebuchets with Chen Gong, you can just recruit the mercenary axemen and then the trebuchets. They will appear almost fully replenished.
pricey approach but that is one nice trick you can do with mercenary units for the late game to get your imperial units ready at a minutes notice
Sun is the best family in any totalwar game. Good faction Leader, great Heir and a great prime minister, all in the family
Historically also the best ruler and the true successor to the Han
I've been going through all your guide videos and they've been helping me so much learn my first total war game.
At 22:45 you say to check the earlier version of the guide on how to do a manual siege of Nan, Jiangling but I couldn't find the fight, even the video that says outdated you delegated the battle. Could you give me a link or the title of the video to check it out?
its been too long for me to recall which video I am referring to (it might be the campaign let's play series) but just wondering, what is the issue you are having with the siege of Nan?
@@SeriousTrivia I saw your tutorial battle and some other battles in your Cao Cao tutorial campaign lets play, so I know some tips and strategies for open field battles. But Nan has those barricades, archer towers/gates (not sure what they are called) and generally harder for me due to more units. Any tips for that is appreciated.
assuming you are attacking it without any siege weapons, the trick would be to fully utilize your general's abilities. Any AOE ability such as Flame of the Phoenix can be spammed (charge in to a crowd, use the ability, charge out and wait for cooldown). Saving your units until your generals are tired out (or until one of your generals successfully captured the towers) will help you take the city. While not necessarily a siege battle using Sun Jian, there is an early game Liu Bei guide that show how to use just generals to take a walled settlement.
Blazing down south actually has me scared cuz once it gets to 197, I get the sudden low emperor's favor and added with the low faction support and poor starting economy, it's a little harder to manage rebellions, characters, and the added corruption
Im sorry but the siege of Chibi is absolutely hilarious to think about 2 guys just bringing a town to a standstill by standing at the entrances. Then they proceed to murder ~80 people each lol
sounds like a Dynasty Warriors theme gameplay LOL
YOOO- FINALLY!! ❤️❤️❤️
Great guide thank you
Speaking of cao cao schemes, I once had Han dang as a general with a full stack of cavalry, and he did the scheme which reduces the charge of the cavalry, when I clicked the unit they had literally 0 charge, and when I moved him Han dang just disappeared. From the game. Entirely. With all the items I gave him.
And I know for sure he wasn’t a spy because I didn’t get any notification.
No idea how the disappearing thing happened? maybe a faction council kill event?
@@SeriousTrivia maybe. But I didn’t get any notification, it was like he didn’t exist at all. Couldn’t find him in the character finder even.
Am happy This is one of my favorite factions
It's sad that Sun Jian died early in history, I wanted to see what he could've done before the three kingdoms era
the interesting thing here is that if Sun Jian didn't die, he might have just been a general serving Yuan Shu instead.
@@SeriousTrivia Oh that's actually a good point lol
@@SeriousTrivia But would he have continued that? Most of his ablest generals were loyal to him personally as well as his men. The Jade Seal incident clearly shows his own ambition. I think Sun Jian, like Sun Ce, would try to establish his own domain South.
@@aaryeekd.mishra3487 I think that he would’ve done so much later though. ST has mentioned multiple times Sun Jian gave the seal to Yuan Shu before his death. So this leads me to believe that he would be loyal until he declared the Zhong dynasty.
From how I see it, Wu might be weaker coming into Chi Bi if it was Sun Jian who was leading it.
14:29 Please don't make your heir into your wife, it'll scar him.
love your vids mate. Been playing this game for a few months now, but shockingly never played sun jian lol. love ur wide range of lets play and different series. as a unique character/gear collecter (i love doing this, not sure y) i struggle quite a bit to collect all unique characters (maybe becuz i have no idea how to use spy feature to its fulliest or good way to bring in heroes through annex/unify). if possible, would u be able to make a "guide" or play through on how to collect all (or nearly all) unique characters as well as unique weapon/horses?
Yes there is a guide in the works for that
that would be a great video. i still struggle to this day to employ taishi ci/xu huang and get dong zhuo weapon
When do you put Sun Ce in for Heir? Right away, or when cavalry becomes more available to the Sun faction?
As mid-late game approaches, where would you advise the Imperial Capitol sit? I'd like to keep mine as historic as I'm able, but was there a settlement that would have had his ancestors or best economy? I'm loving the lore series and just trying to tie it all up.
So Sun Ce should be heir once you start getting more higher level generals which unlocks your unique cavalry! Luckily Danyang is their historical capital and a great income commandery in the game
@@SeriousTrivia Win, win!
have you consider doing an exile of taiwan playthrough where you sail there and colonice it from turn 1 and make it your capital
I mean just for kicks and giggles?
@@SeriousTrivia more like a challenge run like the Qiang only or the Max Trade-Offs games
I mean hiding out in Taiwan is not exactly challenging. It will just be me sitting there for the first 30 turns doing nothing lol aside from a clickbait title, it doesn't even sound like a fun viewing experience
@@SeriousTrivia that is fair
I’m doing just that right now with He Yi, building up a Yellow Sky Refuge. First 60 turns is just chilling and maxing out the nearby coastal towns.
I feel like there are some DLC changes I'm missing (I only have the base game): Sun Jian is starting with Stability instead of Bravery, and I don't see the "you lost {x} imperial favor" prompt when winning in battle against a Han force. What am I missing?
hmm I am not sure
I found Gongsun Zan to be the easiest start out faction. Nice corner of the map to build up in, learn the mechanics and steamroll out from later.
captain retinue is only available in the local commandery to hire. not factionwide
with 7 characters total in the Imperial Court with Understanding Skill + reforms that grant 1 additional rank for each unit type (provided i'm not misremembering), it'd be possible to get rank 9 recruits; wouldn't rank 9 mercenary retinue recruits be much more powerful than mercenary captain retinues to the point of making said captain retinues obselete?
yes and no. sometimes you just want a cheap and weak army for that turn which is what mercenary units are good for. You recruit them, use them, then disband them and they end up costing you very little since there are a lot of recruitment discounts and with no mustering time, you don't have to pay any upkeep compared to regular troops
@@SeriousTrivia that's a good point. although, i think we can also agree that if it's Mercenary Captain Retinue stack vs a stack of Rank 9 Mercenary Retinue recruits, the Retinue recruits would probably win in a landslide strength wise.
Amazing video!! I learned a lot. Quick question. How come the units you recruit for Sun and Gai don't need to be healed? Don't they normally all have to be healed for few turns?
The mercenary units for Sun Jian’s faction have the special ability to come fully mustered which is why I am playing them like this
thank you for the amazing pronounciation
I wish you had opined on the "Declawing the Tiger" dilemma. It doesn't seem like there is a good reason to kill off Sun Jian.
I've only won a few campaigns, and none of them have been on legendary. I exclusively use commanders for heir and nothing else. Is there ever a point in hiring a commander to be an army general? I am genuinly confused as to what they actually provide other than faction satisfaction
they provide formations so say you want an all cavalry army with no strategists then they would be a good choice (pre battle that is, you would still want someone with reach to lead it up until you have to fight then swap them).
movement heck is still on even after you have taken a settlement
I am totally new to the game and I choose Sun Jian, but why did I not start from where you started? Was it because of the DLC? I think it was before 190
Yes this is guide for the 190 start from the base game. If you use a dlc start date then it will be different
@@SeriousTrivia i restarted the game and started at 190. And am watching all your videos but still I am a little bit lost lol. But thank you for your wonderful videos
You can actually demand surrender on the second fight. I don't know if on Legendary if they say yes or not. However, on normal difficulty they say yes
my stance is that never demand surrender as you are just losing out on experience and income
@@SeriousTrivia that makes sense. I figured saving early HP and Troops so you can spam the next handful of settlements, but your point is very valid
@@SeriousTrivia Also, i had more time to watch your guide fully and wow. You're on a different level hahahahahah
Bro, i didn't even know about the titles for generals....
@@SeriousTrivia One question though, why didn't you make anyone Chancellor?
Excellent guide. Thank you. I subscribed.
Can you give me some more info?
When do I make my son my heir?
What skill trees should I prioritize?
when Sun Ce comes of age, immediately make him your heir. Skill Tree for Sun Jian and for most characters should be focused on either active ability for battle or skills with faction wide effects as he is your leader
@@SeriousTrivia thank you my friend
@@SeriousTrivia thank you my friend.
how do you fight back liu baio if he does different things, in my game he sailed down the river instead of doing nothing. So in that senario do i just go up and attack him, or let him take the settlement?
And if he appears infront of you on land, do you attack him there?
check out the earlier versions of this guide (there is one where you beat his army in Changsha then peace out), there is also a version where you just go ahead and attack him from the beginning. And yes you do attack him
Anyone ever get closer to historical storyline?
And settled it in 3kingdom (shu,wei,wu)?
Can you still capture Quan Rou in the first battle? I've tried legendary and even easy difficulty and delegating kills him every time... Ive attempted 10 times now
(I know you don't need to delegate)
I don’t think there is any reason for it to be impossible now
@@SeriousTrivia I noticed the troop numbers were different for me, retinues were 40 men instead of 120 in your guide, so the overall battle was smaller although my capture chances were still 76%, would that affect it?
Also thank you for the reply🙌
That is only a graphics setting difference and does not affect gameplay
@@SeriousTriviaAlright I must’ve made a mistake, thank you again. Your videos are very helpful
Sometimes it is just bad luck
Question for serious trivia
Lu Bu is impossible to steal from big daddy dong in the 190 start he always seems to be super happy in the faction, even when dong dies he doesn't join rebellions anymore I have played the first 30ish turns in 10 or so campaigns since 1.7 and you just can't steal him or have him crop up in the recruitment pool. Do you have any workarounds? (non modded)
If Dong dies and the civil war event happen, then he still has a decent chance to show up in the pool. Like look at my coop with MrSmartDonkey, Dong died, civil war, and Lu Bu went over to MrSmartDonkey. I think it is the same as before. I never had any luck turning him as a turncoat before the patch either. It is usually he turns up in recruitment pool or he doesn't.
Have you had a campaign where you had the emperor but chose NOT to restore the Han? Just found out there are actually some long-lasting harsh punishments for that, made even more noticable as you lost all the bonuses from imperial favor.
To be specific I was playing Lu Bu and giving up the throne was just not an option, as his whole faction mechanic breaks upon that happening.
Basically unless you intend to restore the Han, capturing the emperor will actually hurt your campaign. Ironic they made it this way since that's what historically happened.
what do you mean? can you give me some examples of those punishments? you lose all bonuses from imperial favor even if you restore...
Lu Bu is a very different case because the faction mechanic requires Lu Bu to be your leader. Try getting him killed, those same mechanics will break too. It has nothing to do with restoration
@@SeriousTrivia I got it during a recent Cao Cao campaign as well, it’s called “A New Dynasty”. -2k population growth fw, -15 public order fw, -15 relations with Han factions, and +6% replenishment fw. All of that for 15 turns.
oh very interesting! that is a nice touch
@@SeriousTrivia It's called "A New Dynasty" or something like that, lasts for 20 turns I think? Increases faction-wide corruption, lowers public order, and makes relations with other factions worse. On the flip side it gives replenishment. It's almost like a duplicate of Lu Bu's existing mechanics, funny enough.
And yeah I did double check to make sure I didn't just mistook Lu Bu's existing mechanics for something else. There's also no satisfaction debuff so it's not meant to cancel out imperial favor bonuses.
And yeah when Lu Bu passed on the throne I actually got the pre-patch message that he died and personal victories could be reset to 0, though he's still in the court, but my kill list was no longer active.
I hit Zhou Tai on my character list as well as Lu Fan. How do I use him most effectively?
Find him two characters that he likes (green check marks) and then fight with them often to build up their friendship to oathsworn. After that you just abuse Zhou Tai’s ability to kill enemy infantry with repeated charges. If he takes damage then rest a bit to heal up and rinse and repeat.
@@SeriousTrivia I'll give this a go, thanks very much!
I really curious who steal that unique horse and ancient sword, from who need beat shit? I mean about Sun Ce campaign in 194.
yea its a shame that these items are basically gone in later starts
@@SeriousTrivia I think I saw that sword with Sima Yue in 8 Princes ... speaking of, any love for those guys? I am just considering which one of the princes to play
Small regional city has only 5 build slots but you have suggested to build 6 different buildings at this level which is not possible
the requirement for level 5 building is small regional city and the final build is obviously for regional city or higher...
Seeing the seal reminds me: they listened to you and gave it to Cao Cao in the 200 campaign. Still waiting for Yuan Shu and Liu Hong to get it in their campaigns, though. Shouldn't there be eight or so seals anyway?
There were six emperor seals but this one in particular was used for symbolizing inheriting the empire so it has special meaning. The others were used for more administrative things. The Empress also has her set of seals too
Will you be doing any of the other southern characters? (Like Meng Huo)
I will eventually get to everyone
ST can you partner with CA to explain the next patch CA just announced?
you have to ask CA that lol
Hey ST I was wondering, do you know if there’s any historical reasoning behind sun jian having mercenaries? Was there a lot of mercenaries from the South during the 3K era or something?
not at all, if anything it is just a game design decision to some units similar to other total war titles with instant recruitment. There is no historical link between the south and mercenary troops or Sun Jian with mercenary troops
@@SeriousTrivia ah right, ty for clearing that up!
Its been so long since i played sun jian, but i read somewhere that if u play sun jian campaign, u can replinish units even in enemy territories? is this true by any means? im only up to the 10 min mark, so apologies if u mention this somewhere later in the video
Nope that is not true
How do you get that sweet starting screen? Where the characters are stood looking cool instead of the map?
Hmm what do you mean?
@@SeriousTrivia You know when you click new game, then choose a leader and THEN you see a screen with your leader on the left, a map of China in the middle and the faction details on the right. You can change the stating date, options and romance on/off from there. In this video, instead of that screen you have Sun Jian in the middle, flanked by his court and they all look super cool. I have Sun Jian and I thought all the DLC but I don't know how to get this screen.
you can swap between the map and the character view with the button in the middle of the screen. I think it should default to characters too assuming you are on any patch after 1.6 I think
@@SeriousTrivia Oh yeah lol. Thanks and sorry. Also thanks for the amazing videos!
Is that general’s satisfaction always the reason for them to left you? Since I just started to play this game so I followed your guid for a while, then I started to play it on my own, and Chong Pu left me after a few turns. Could my enemy did something to cause him left me?
even if they turncoat him, he would have to have low satisfaction. Aside from that there is no other reason a general that started with you from the beginning (thus not a spy) will ever leave you
Never had the declawing the tiger event
Are you using any mods?
I found out several times that the game was stopped working for some reasons and this could be because of the extra mods I’m using
No mods are used for any of these guides
I’m revisiting this vid. Is there any value in setting up Liu Biao to take a treachery hit once he declares war from the event?
not really, its not like poor diplomatic standing for AI would matter
@@SeriousTrivia ok ty for the reply. I was curious if it could lead to more vassal independence and if that is a worthwhile condition for a buffer zone to He Man or Cao Cao
since we are hitting the HANs factions, upon 197, imperial favor will be very low. How to increase this?
Keep high food and it will work itself out
ok, I'll try this out.
Do Sun Jian's generals get access to the Tiger Guard and Handmaid Guard when they reach sufficient rank, or are those units exclusive to Sun Ce's faction?
no those are Sun Ce exclusive
Why do you recall one of the generals then move the other? Whats the mechanic
you don't have movement on summon but if you recall the first one the rest of the army gets full movement
Can change Sun Jian's weapon for 1 turn, more discount
Why Lady Wu and Lu Su revert back to the OG portraits?
And how do we get Da Qiao and Xiao Qiao?
(Ps. I just reinstalled TW3K 🤣, so many changes)
Lady Wu and Lu Su always looks like this unless you have a mod that changes their portraits. Da Qiao and Xiao Qiao are not guaranteed spawns for Sun Jian's faction. Their event is based on Sun Ce's faction.
Some say you can get Da Qiao and Xiao Qiao if Sun Jian died
would it have been a good idea to offer to support independence for cai mao or huang zu?
I don't see why you would want that since you are going to be wiping them out eventually for your challenge. It is not like they will pay you much. The only faction that you can get some money from is supporting Yuan Shu's legitimacy, but personally I do not like supporting Yuan Shu lol so it is up to you
what do you do with yuan shu with his event for the seal?
Fight him
Luckily the choice of not giving him is just minus relation not right away war like liu biao 🤣
What’s your recommendations for court positions?
there is no effect really for the court positions before you hit king (aside from faction leader, heir, and prime minister). You really only want to use them on your highest rank and lowest satisfaction characters.
@@SeriousTrivia thanks for answering, 2 more questions, if a building chain requires a resource that isn’t a part of its commandery but you do have that resource in another commandery, can you build that building in the original commandery or do you need both resources in the commandery, and where are entrepreneurs located? Thanks
resources are shared globally so once you have acquired it whether by owning it or trade, you have it everywhere
@@SeriousTrivia thanks for the help
You missed the timeskip! If it was intentional, ignore me, haha!
I had bad experience play Sun Jian, the heroism not as great as Caocao and Liu Bei's mechanism. Not all the legendary Wu characters joined my court. I had to capture Da Qiao on the battlefield. Then I couldn't marry Da Qiao to Sun Quan as somehow there were related!!! It was really messed up....One of my pet hate is why the game still showing you lost imperial favour after you became emperor? It that still relevant? Have to say I enjoyed Sun Ce's campaign more. Sharing the character experience is very powerful ( using Trivia's term lol). Keep up the good work buddy. Who should I play next YuanShao or Goingsun Zan?
Yuan Shao!
Sometimes I heard character call Dong Zhou as ‘Dong Zei’ or maybe Zai. Why is that? Is it a slang?
zei or 贼 means thief so Dong Zei is a name given to Dong Zhuo and Cao Cao even as Cao Zei was quite common too as both of them were stealing the power of the Emperor
@@SeriousTrivia I see. Thanks for the quick reply! Pretty ironic coming from the guy holding the imperial seal. I know romance portray him as a patriot but still....
This video give me a challange idea, no recalling generals to move, once summoned on the field it need to stay on the field, maybe i will give it a try to see hos stupid it will be :D
Silly question Sun tzu is from this clan?
Sun Tzu predates Sun Jian by more than 700 years. Sun Jian makes this claim, but there are no historical records to support this claim and more often than not it is just one of those claims to make the clan sounds better than it really is. Feel free to check out the Sun Jian lore series where I cover this.
@@SeriousTrivia cool
How did you get sun jian with bravery
He came with it. It could be a patch change
the AI is like, we thought only we are supposed to cheat...
Cheng Pu is a beast, in my campaign he beat zhao yun 1v1
Dapatkah kamu memainkan fraksi ini di DLC mandete of heaven , aku sangat menantikannya 😍
Yuan Shao guide soon?
he would be next!
Never click that fast xD
Can you please do how to get started on liu chong in 190
Yuan Shao is probably next then I will put out another vote. I am not high on doing one for Liu Chong just yet as people without MoH can't play him
@@SeriousTrivia what's Moh ?
mandate of heaven. It is a DLC exclusive faction, so I want to focus on the base game factions first since everyone has access to them
@@SeriousTrivia ok awesome keep up the amazing work you're doing
Is this one of the three kings?and are they hostile to each other,alwase
Yes this is one of the historical three kingdoms and no they are not always hostile in the game
@@SeriousTrivia thank you,maps is my next qu?do we build or are the way's already there.
Think I need more info before questions,don't know enough to formulate a question.
I am a little confused by your question. Yes you build building in your commanderies. What do you mean by “the way’s already there”
@@SeriousTrivia k on the way to another border do I build towers for communication and security.or do we all move on roads that already exist.
Who snitched on sun jian when he grabbed the seal?
plenty of troops there
likely the troops given by Yuan Shu were more loyal to Yuan Shu than Sun Jian's volunteers
listen at 1.25 x speed for your sanity
You say Sun Jian, but all I hear is weaker Sun Ce
that's why the son didn't get the sword and the horse =P
@@SeriousTrivia Truly we live in a society.