good see the Idaho springs charger is now up and running!! I'll have check it out when it's not so cold!! Grateful I don't have drive my LEAF too far to/from work!! Happy skiing!! LOL
It is an excellent and informative video. I will add that on many EVs, the car will not use energy to keep the battery warm. Some models (like the Audi e-tron / Audi Q8 e-tron) do not do this and do not have an active heater as a precondition before charging. For those models, charging before departure does not affect the displayed consumption. It affects available power/regen and the energy you can draw from the battery. I belive many models does not active heat battery before you want it (precondition for charging) For me, the precondition the cabin is the thing that affects the range most in winter. If I precondition for 1 hour, so not only the air inside the cabin, but also the seats and other materials are heated up by the air the range is almost not affected by cold weather on a typical 2-3 hour drive.
Thank you Max for the demonstration and explanation. Having you demo scenarios and use cases takes a lot of the pressure off. Nice to see you found another Starbucks - Volvo charger.
Good advice, but sadly, a lot of EV’s do not have battery pre-conditioning. One of those is my 2022 RWD Ioniq 5, so i am stuck with my 40=50% reduction in range and slow-as-molasses charging in the wintertime. It is the one thing I absolutely hate about this car.
I think the point of the video is that by charging your car and having it finish shortly before you are ready to leave, you will by default have warmed/conditioned your battery without a specific battery conditioning function. Someone can let me know if I have that wrong.
I found this morning my keeping the cabin heat on even though it was colder I used less battey same trip as every day , idk why maybe the heat was warming the battery some or idk
@@SueC56for P2. Not the case for all EVs that implement battery conditioning differently. Also some EVs can not condition battery very well if at all: Leaf and e-Golf.
Yes. My Ioniq5 has a theoretical 100% charge range of 303 miles at 100% charge, which you are never supposed to do except on rare occasions like a long road trip. I have never been able to get that. The best in normal use is 240 miles at 80% in the summertime. In the winter with cold weather the best I have ever seen is 170 miles at 80% charge. And without battery pre-conditioning, charging in the wintertime is slow as molasses with a top end of 40-50 kw instead of 200+ in the summertime.@@saadimadina1337
Excellent information for new BEV owners such as myself. We have many question on the operation and characteristics of EV’s. I have seen my range diminish as it has gotten colder and thought my EV was dying. I wasn’t expecting the range to be affected as much in cold weather. I will start scheduling my charging sessions from now on, Thank you.
Been doing this for some time now with my Model 3. Basically the car preconditions in minutes, so 10-15 minutes before i leave my house i hit the climate to bring the car to 20'C, this also preheats the battery in Teslas, not only the cabin. The difference is 10-15% extra battery compare to leaving with the car/battery cold.
You’re not telling the whole story. As a former Model 3 DMP owner, I can tell you I easily lost 20-30% range in colder weather, below 25 degrees F. Even if I preheated off grid, I lost 20-30%. Cabin and seat heat , even with heat pump, are brutal on range.
That wasn't the intent, i was confirming what you said that preheating will give you more range then not preheating in the cold. Course the range drops in the winter. Most cold it got for me this winter was around 25 degrees F, and my range dropped to 190 miles per charge on M3 RWD Highland, this is a mix of highway and non highway speeds.@@OutofSpecStudios
@@alexgruia88 yes, of course it’ll give you more range , you’re heating the pack and cabin off the grid. However,much of that is later lost to cold weather driving while trying to heat cabin or using seat heaters. Fact is, ICE vehicles do better in cold than BEV. By far. Having owned Teslas since 2013, I can tell you this. Batteries do not like cold ( nor extreme heat).
@@alexgruia88 looks like you lost about 50 miles just due to weather alone. That’s a huge drop . Close to 30% which is consistent with my Model 3 DMP losing about 30% below 30 degrees F.
Are you sure cabin conditioning does not also condition the battery? If you are sure, can you provide evidence? I view charge scheduling purely as a feature to get off peak electricity, and not a way to warm up the battery pack.
@@iMaxPatten I've seen "Battery preconditioning due to temperature" or something like that in the Tesla app when preheating the cabin but I wasn't aware that they can be separate. Good to know since I've never used scheduled charging outside of what Barry said, for off peak savings.
What costs more, or are they the same...? - Start 2 drives at 80%, driving the same 30 minutes (somehow same driving energy used) a) precondition the battery from your wall (so spend money to warm up the battery) b) don't pre-condition (you have less SOC when you get back, so spend money on more charging)
I highly recommend preconditioning if you can. It definitely improves range and you get to continue using regen breaking even during the winter time where it's around 0° or below. It sucks for those who don't have access to daily charging at home though because preconditioning does use a lot of battery. My friend lives in a loft that has 8 chargers on the 4th floor of their parking garage and if he's not one of those plugged in (he usually comes home late and they're all being used), preconditioning uses around 8-10% of his battery just to warm up his Tesla.
It's worth emphasizing that the tips shown in this video are only necessary if you're taking the car out on a winter trip - for just driving around town, they are not necessary. Sure, if you leave the car out in the cold all night, it may use more electricity when you drive to work and have less range, but for most people, the commute is short enough and the battery big enough that it just doesn't matter - you will still have way more range than you need and not need to charge anywhere except home. For example, today, yesterday, I drove 40 miles for a routine in-town trip in a Bolt in 20 degree outside temperatures. Heat blasting, zero attempts to precondition anything, and I did not sacrifice my comfort one bit to conserve range. Halfway through the day's driving, the car sat for hours outside, unplugged, before it was time to drive back. On the way back, I even left the car's heater running for several minutes while making a quick food stop. Yes, the efficiency numbers were ugly, but at the end of the day, the entire round trip still used only 25% of the battery and, once I hit my home charger, I could plug in and repeat the same trip today. Zero public charging, zero messing around with preconditioning, zero hassle. Of course, the tips shown in this video are still worth knowing for those times you do choose to take an electric car in the winter beyond 120 miles or so, but for all of those routine trips to work, the grocery store, or to grab dinner with a friend, the battery is big enough and the trip short enough that it just doesn't matter.
When its below freezing, at the end of the day, what ever ammount of fuel I have in the tank, it will still be there in the morning. With EVs, you are always trying to keep that energy up. And to do that, your always charging, always trying to keep the battery warm (using more energy). Evs are way too much faff. With petrol or diesel: it's the end of the day, you get out of your car, lock it, get in to your home and forget about it. Morning comes you get up, get ready for work, get in your car and go. no faff.
This is very true. EV owners have different concerns than Ice vehicles. We are always concerned bout range and where can we get or will need to charge next. But we don’t worry as much for the regular maintenance that gas cars need or say, noises or breakdowns from moving parts, transmission, engines, axles to name a few. These are some of the trade offs. Which is better depends on your life style. For me being new to BEV I am loving it. Charging at home is super convenient. Driving my EV is super cheap, quiet, powerful, and comfortable. I commute and at times, especially in cold weather, where range is affected most, I suffer range anxiety. Not severe, but it is there. I must note that on the few occasions where I have had to plan a charging session to complete my commute of 140 miles round trip has been mostly due to the inability to charge long enough overnight to achieve an adequate charge. I sometimes get in late and need to be up and out very early. Charging for 4 hours or less. For those occasions I use my gas car. But so far the EV is working out just fine.
Good explainer video. Very relevant video even here in West Texas since it is currently 15 degrees Fahrenheit. As usual, you covered the relevant bits without talking down to us. You've inspired me to try out some of the settings in my Chevy Bolt.
Several Chicago TV stations today are reporting on problems Tesla owners are having charging their cars during the city's current cold snap - long lines, dead batteries, dead superchargers.
It's Chicago what do you expect? When 2/3rd of the country is covered by the freezing weather and only Chicago is having issues, that's a failure on Chicago which isn't known to be great at all🤣 It's also dumb of them to get an EV without access to charging at home because public charging infrastructure in the US just isn't great
What I do is map-in another location to get the battery condition going & just mute the nav (or ignore it), .. the station I go to there's usually a wait so I don't want the battery conditioning to turn off.... You can also use this technique if the station isn't showing up on gps but you know it's there, just choose another location to activate battery condition and drive to where you actually want to go....
I just had an EV charge station installer tell me it’s actually good to charge the Ford E Transit to 100%. Is this true? Why the difference between EVs?
Amen for battery preconditioning, I made a long road trip in northern Canada this week and got full charging speeds in -30c temperatures because of battery preconditiong: ua-cam.com/video/nhOGo7gDe3s/v-deo.html
P2 Performance is an amazing vehicle, but the efficiency is just terrible. Outside of the new RWD, every other CMA EV is the same, basically the EV equivalent of a "gas guzzler." Slow, fast, warm, cold - it doesn't matter much. There is a fundamental inefficiency that can be frustrating. I don't care much as I don't go on long trips, but it is kind of wasteful and certainly dead weight. EX30 for a counterpoint has dual motors, weighs less, significantly quicker sprints, has a claimed 265mi range, effective charge rate is even faster - all that with just a 64kWh pack and bargain pricing. Polestar has made it clear they don't want to do smaller vehicles, but bringing that tech into an update P2 would go a long way.
Fact is, BEV suck in cold weather. Between conditioning and use of seat and cabin heat, they LOSE a lot of range. In addition to those, performance is limited as well as acceleration, regen braking etc. The only way to help ( a little) is to warm the battery in a garage or heat it before you leave while in grid. Even Tesla heat pump do not help that much.
I have to agree with Alex. A BEV is not an ICE and although they are not as efficient as BEV, nothing beats ICE for heating in winter. The natural production of heat from combustion is still superior to BEV resistive heat or heat pump heat. Even the Polestars heat pump, similar to Teslas, doesn’t suffice in harsh winter conditions.
@@BradC44another thing is ppl have to recalibrate their range expectation w the change in temperature. I always forget hhow much range I lose in the winter and over estimate my available range. This is not so bad w our rivian, but w our polestar the cold weather makes the already short range very challenging.
@@OutofSpecStudiosThe “natural” heat from ICE vehicles is due their staggering inefficiency and wasted energy given off as heat every second it is running.
You charge at home then to keep your battery alive and well you heat the battery.... using more electricity. You should have got a petrol or diesel car.
Preconditioning isn’t costing any more than a normal charge. Charging a battery produces heat, so scheduling your charge to end closer to your departures will have the battery ready at optimal operating temperatures. This occurs with no extra energy consumption. Helps your EV be more efficient. And is no different than warming a gas car for two minutes to let the oils flow much better and bring it up to operating temperatures in the colder weather. A gas car, however modern it maybe will benefit from a good warm up prior to operating. This warm up period helps gas cars conserve fuel which is hardest on cold starts. Same concept just different energy sources.
Thank You Max for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
good see the Idaho springs charger is now up and running!! I'll have check it out when it's not so cold!! Grateful I don't have drive my LEAF too far to/from work!! Happy skiing!! LOL
It is an excellent and informative video.
I will add that on many EVs, the car will not use energy to keep the battery warm. Some models (like the Audi e-tron / Audi Q8 e-tron) do not do this and do not have an active heater as a precondition before charging. For those models, charging before departure does not affect the displayed consumption. It affects available power/regen and the energy you can draw from the battery. I belive many models does not active heat battery before you want it (precondition for charging)
For me, the precondition the cabin is the thing that affects the range most in winter. If I precondition for 1 hour, so not only the air inside the cabin, but also the seats and other materials are heated up by the air the range is almost not affected by cold weather on a typical 2-3 hour drive.
Thank you Max for the demonstration and explanation. Having you demo scenarios and use cases takes a lot of the pressure off.
Nice to see you found another Starbucks - Volvo charger.
Good advice, but sadly, a lot of EV’s do not have battery pre-conditioning. One of those is my 2022 RWD Ioniq 5, so i am stuck with my 40=50% reduction in range and slow-as-molasses charging in the wintertime. It is the one thing I absolutely hate about this car.
I think the point of the video is that by charging your car and having it finish shortly before you are ready to leave, you will by default have warmed/conditioned your battery without a specific battery conditioning function. Someone can let me know if I have that wrong.
I found this morning my keeping the cabin heat on even though it was colder I used less battey same trip as every day , idk why maybe the heat was warming the battery some or idk
@@SueC56for P2. Not the case for all EVs that implement battery conditioning differently. Also some EVs can not condition battery very well if at all: Leaf and e-Golf.
50 percent reduction range?
Yes. My Ioniq5 has a theoretical 100% charge range of 303 miles at 100% charge, which you are never supposed to do except on rare occasions like a long road trip. I have never been able to get that. The best in normal use is 240 miles at 80% in the summertime. In the winter with cold weather the best I have ever seen is 170 miles at 80% charge. And without battery pre-conditioning, charging in the wintertime is slow as molasses with a top end of 40-50 kw instead of 200+ in the summertime.@@saadimadina1337
Excellent information for new BEV owners such as myself. We have many question on the operation and characteristics of EV’s. I have seen my range diminish as it has gotten colder and thought my EV was dying. I wasn’t expecting the range to be affected as much in cold weather. I will start scheduling my charging sessions from now on, Thank you.
Been doing this for some time now with my Model 3. Basically the car preconditions in minutes, so 10-15 minutes before i leave my house i hit the climate to bring the car to 20'C, this also preheats the battery in Teslas, not only the cabin. The difference is 10-15% extra battery compare to leaving with the car/battery cold.
You’re not telling the whole story. As a former Model 3 DMP owner, I can tell you I easily lost 20-30% range in colder weather, below 25 degrees F. Even if I preheated off grid, I lost 20-30%. Cabin and seat heat , even with heat pump, are brutal on range.
That wasn't the intent, i was confirming what you said that preheating will give you more range then not preheating in the cold. Course the range drops in the winter. Most cold it got for me this winter was around 25 degrees F, and my range dropped to 190 miles per charge on M3 RWD Highland, this is a mix of highway and non highway speeds.@@OutofSpecStudios
@@alexgruia88 yes, of course it’ll give you more range , you’re heating the pack and cabin off the grid. However,much of that is later lost to cold weather driving while trying to heat cabin or using seat heaters. Fact is, ICE vehicles do better in cold than BEV. By far. Having owned Teslas since 2013, I can tell you this. Batteries do not like cold ( nor extreme heat).
@@alexgruia88 looks like you lost about 50 miles just due to weather alone. That’s a huge drop . Close to 30% which is consistent with my Model 3 DMP losing about 30% below 30 degrees F.
@@OutofSpecStudios indeed also its an LFP battery so its a little more sensitive to cold then non LFP, but as expected :) as you say.
Always look forward to updates on Max's P*2!
Are you sure cabin conditioning does not also condition the battery? If you are sure, can you provide evidence? I view charge scheduling purely as a feature to get off peak electricity, and not a way to warm up the battery pack.
Yes I’m sure at least in case of polestar 2
@@iMaxPatten I've seen "Battery preconditioning due to temperature" or something like that in the Tesla app when preheating the cabin but I wasn't aware that they can be separate. Good to know since I've never used scheduled charging outside of what Barry said, for off peak savings.
What costs more, or are they the same...?
- Start 2 drives at 80%, driving the same 30 minutes (somehow same driving energy used)
a) precondition the battery from your wall (so spend money to warm up the battery)
b) don't pre-condition (you have less SOC when you get back, so spend money on more charging)
I highly recommend preconditioning if you can. It definitely improves range and you get to continue using regen breaking even during the winter time where it's around 0° or below. It sucks for those who don't have access to daily charging at home though because preconditioning does use a lot of battery. My friend lives in a loft that has 8 chargers on the 4th floor of their parking garage and if he's not one of those plugged in (he usually comes home late and they're all being used), preconditioning uses around 8-10% of his battery just to warm up his Tesla.
It's worth emphasizing that the tips shown in this video are only necessary if you're taking the car out on a winter trip - for just driving around town, they are not necessary. Sure, if you leave the car out in the cold all night, it may use more electricity when you drive to work and have less range, but for most people, the commute is short enough and the battery big enough that it just doesn't matter - you will still have way more range than you need and not need to charge anywhere except home.
For example, today, yesterday, I drove 40 miles for a routine in-town trip in a Bolt in 20 degree outside temperatures. Heat blasting, zero attempts to precondition anything, and I did not sacrifice my comfort one bit to conserve range. Halfway through the day's driving, the car sat for hours outside, unplugged, before it was time to drive back. On the way back, I even left the car's heater running for several minutes while making a quick food stop. Yes, the efficiency numbers were ugly, but at the end of the day, the entire round trip still used only 25% of the battery and, once I hit my home charger, I could plug in and repeat the same trip today. Zero public charging, zero messing around with preconditioning, zero hassle.
Of course, the tips shown in this video are still worth knowing for those times you do choose to take an electric car in the winter beyond 120 miles or so, but for all of those routine trips to work, the grocery store, or to grab dinner with a friend, the battery is big enough and the trip short enough that it just doesn't matter.
When its below freezing, at the end of the day, what ever ammount of fuel I have in the tank, it will still be there in the morning. With EVs, you are always trying to keep that energy up. And to do that, your always charging, always trying to keep the battery warm (using more energy). Evs are way too much faff.
With petrol or diesel: it's the end of the day, you get out of your car, lock it, get in to your home and forget about it.
Morning comes you get up, get ready for work, get in your car and go. no faff.
This is very true. EV owners have different concerns than Ice vehicles. We are always concerned bout range and where can we get or will need to charge next. But we don’t worry as much for the regular maintenance that gas cars need or say, noises or breakdowns from moving parts, transmission, engines, axles to name a few. These are some of the trade offs. Which is better depends on your life style. For me being new to BEV I am loving it. Charging at home is super convenient. Driving my EV is super cheap, quiet, powerful, and comfortable. I commute and at times, especially in cold weather, where range is affected most, I suffer range anxiety. Not severe, but it is there. I must note that on the few occasions where I have had to plan a charging session to complete my commute of 140 miles round trip has been mostly due to the inability to charge long enough overnight to achieve an adequate charge. I sometimes get in late and need to be up and out very early. Charging for 4 hours or less. For those occasions I use my gas car. But so far the EV is working out just fine.
Good explainer video. Very relevant video even here in West Texas since it is currently 15 degrees Fahrenheit. As usual, you covered the relevant bits without talking down to us. You've inspired me to try out some of the settings in my Chevy Bolt.
Several Chicago TV stations today are reporting on problems Tesla owners are having charging their cars during the city's current cold snap - long lines, dead batteries, dead superchargers.
It's Chicago what do you expect? When 2/3rd of the country is covered by the freezing weather and only Chicago is having issues, that's a failure on Chicago which isn't known to be great at all🤣 It's also dumb of them to get an EV without access to charging at home because public charging infrastructure in the US just isn't great
What I do is map-in another location to get the battery condition going & just mute the nav (or ignore it), .. the station I go to there's usually a wait so I don't want the battery conditioning to turn off.... You can also use this technique if the station isn't showing up on gps but you know it's there, just choose another location to activate battery condition and drive to where you actually want to go....
RIVIAN just released schedule conditioning, but it only conditions the battery while it’s plugged in and there is a schedule departure
I have the Tesla Rwd lfp battery. I try to schedule start time. And unplug at departure.
did you get 125 kW at those CP stations? Sometimes a pair can deliver 125 kW.
Does charge scheduling still help with EVs that don't have a battery heater?
I just had an EV charge station installer tell me it’s actually good to charge the Ford E Transit to 100%. Is this true? Why the difference between EVs?
is CO a nice place to live?
NO
@@bob-qi4nr why not?
@@akhillz Run by dem TTT aaarrrr dddd SSSS
Yes
Love keystone
The hassle.
Electric cars that are able to pre-conditioning the battery are extremely important for road-trippers that lives in cold weather conditions.
You got have house before you buy electric vehicle
Amen for battery preconditioning, I made a long road trip in northern Canada this week and got full charging speeds in -30c temperatures because of battery preconditiong: ua-cam.com/video/nhOGo7gDe3s/v-deo.html
Too much information. My suggestion to you. Just show us quickly where you precondition. Less "middel talk" and more straight to the point. Thank you.
Okay Karen
P2 Performance is an amazing vehicle, but the efficiency is just terrible. Outside of the new RWD, every other CMA EV is the same, basically the EV equivalent of a "gas guzzler." Slow, fast, warm, cold - it doesn't matter much. There is a fundamental inefficiency that can be frustrating. I don't care much as I don't go on long trips, but it is kind of wasteful and certainly dead weight.
EX30 for a counterpoint has dual motors, weighs less, significantly quicker sprints, has a claimed 265mi range, effective charge rate is even faster - all that with just a 64kWh pack and bargain pricing. Polestar has made it clear they don't want to do smaller vehicles, but bringing that tech into an update P2 would go a long way.
I read something where evs were way more expensive than gasoline, does anyone know about this
Fact is, BEV suck in cold weather. Between conditioning and use of seat and cabin heat, they LOSE a lot of range. In addition to those, performance is limited as well as acceleration, regen braking etc. The only way to help ( a little) is to warm the battery in a garage or heat it before you leave while in grid. Even Tesla heat pump do not help that much.
I have to agree with Alex. A BEV is not an ICE and although they are not as efficient as BEV, nothing beats ICE for heating in winter. The natural production of heat from combustion is still superior to BEV resistive heat or heat pump heat. Even the Polestars heat pump, similar to Teslas, doesn’t suffice in harsh winter conditions.
@@BradC44another thing is ppl have to recalibrate their range expectation w the change in temperature. I always forget hhow much range I lose in the winter and over estimate my available range. This is not so bad w our rivian, but w our polestar the cold weather makes the already short range very challenging.
@@BradC44 diesel ICE cars plug in and have instant heat too. Matter of perspective.
@@Wasabi9111 in winter I do 85% charging versus typical 70% daily on the Rivian. Cabin heat still steals a lot of energy.
@@OutofSpecStudiosThe “natural” heat from ICE vehicles is due their staggering inefficiency and wasted energy given off as heat every second it is running.
Good advice but very Long-winded, could have been shortened to five minutes
EVs are not ideal for winter long distance driving, unless you carry a propane heater as a backup
you are fortunate it has not gone in to thermal runaway and burned your house down. Yet.
Too much anxiety. Get gas and go. Simple.
Tftc
You charge at home then to keep your battery alive and well you heat the battery.... using more electricity. You should have got a petrol or diesel car.
Preconditioning isn’t costing any more than a normal charge. Charging a battery produces heat, so scheduling your charge to end closer to your departures will have the battery ready at optimal operating temperatures. This occurs with no extra energy consumption. Helps your EV be more efficient. And is no different than warming a gas car for two minutes to let the oils flow much better and bring it up to operating temperatures in the colder weather. A gas car, however modern it maybe will benefit from a good warm up prior to operating. This warm up period helps gas cars conserve fuel which is hardest on cold starts. Same concept just different energy sources.
The best tip is don't by an EV in the first place.