History Primer 161: Dutch 1891 Revolvers Documentary
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
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Animations by Bruno!
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Additional reading:
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Nederlandse Vuurwapens: Marine Mariniers en Marineluchtvaartdienst 1896-1942
Drs G. de Vries & Drs B.J. Martens
Nederlandse Vuurwapens: Landmacht en Luchtvaartafdeling 1895-1940
Drs G. de Vries & Drs B.J. Martens
The Dutch Luger
Bas J. Martens & Guus de Vries
Die Militärrevolver der Niederlande 1856 - 1940
H.E. Harder & W.A. Dreschler
Handleiding tot de Kennis van de inrigting en het Gebruik van Revolverpistolen
J.J. Bergansius
The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols
Joachim Gortz & Dr. Geoffrey Sturgess
Snail Mail/Contact us at:
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I suddenly desire stroopwafels
Dutch subliminal messaging
Same bro
Oh, they're so good. And if you sit them over the rim of a coffee mug like a lid, and let the coffee warm it, the caramel warms up some and it becomes even better.
Mmm spekkedik...
Next video POV stroopwafels
24:06
“1891 means the rifle factory was now under A.I. control”
Those Dutch sure modernized fast!
Skynet Is Online I guess.
Artillerie inrichtingen, not artificial intelligence...
@@expat-riot no you’re wrong the Matrix has you
The Aceh Sultanate is still a trouble spot for the Indonesian government. My grandfather was sent there as private, in the regular Dutch Army, and not the colonial Dutch East Indies Army (KNIL, pronounced K-nil). He arrived there sometime in late 1890s. He received a saber wound across his face, and a bayonet wound in the stomach. After retiring from the army, he stayed in the Indies, and raised his family there. That's where my mother was born. He died as Japanese prisoner, when they occupied those islands, in WWII.
Any time I'm hit in the face with a saber I retire too
My gf's father's family is from Bali and got kicked out after independence (and have gotten the shaft from both sides). What I know of their WWII history is that her opa survived his time in a camp and then eventually ended up in the US with his family. The family itself can be traced back to a Dutch knight in the middle ages and gave his name to a village.
My grandfather went there late 1930's and my mother was born there just before the occupation. Her first memories were of one of those camps....
the jump from a percussion single shot to a cartriadge revolver in a generation is astounding!
This deep dive in revolver development is incredibly fascinating.
This episode is a lesson on research and refinement on earlier content.... great work guys.
I love the way Othias and Ian exchange compliments ad credit each other on historical matters.
Don't see that much.
2 men who specialize in antique firearms development, design, and history, and I'm sure they respect each other, and how thorough and accurate they attend be at all times.
Man... Nice work in digging up that patent. I am glad to have supported you all these years! Super hype
Othais, I just showed my mother the channel, and she observed something... She said, "He sounds like he is the long lost brother of Hand Tool Rescue! He even has a beard and a goofy sense of humor!"
I can't un-hear it now...
In this episode he’s practically loopy…guess it’s very late in the morning like 3 AM cause he’s just off his rocker lol
There are some very murky waters about Alexandre Fagnus and his relationship with a French bicycle manufacturer turned gun salesman named Amédée Maquaire who apparently bought the patent from Fagnus and proposed an alternative to the French 1873 Chamelot-Delvigne named "Modèle d’Officier Perfectionné" ("Improved Officer's Model" - the gun on screen at 13:15 in the video), which is identical to the 1876 Fagnus patent right down to the swing-out sideplate. This is also why this type of revolver was known as a "Maquaire" in French literature until the early 2000s when a researcher found the link back to Fagnus.
I read about it in Gazette des Armes n°425 from November 2010, but there were earlier articles talking about this and I can see why Othias wants to make a whole episode about this mess, because it turns out Fagnus was a lot more influential than initially thought, yet nobody knew of his work until fairly recently.
Also an example of why Europeans and Americans were leading the world in most fields of technology: the sheer volume of competition as designers, producers, and entrepreneurs all over generally felt they had a real chance to make it big if they just kept at it. Between patent dodging, dodgy business deals, and increasingly skilled engineering at all levels, it is small wonder Euro-Americans had all what they had. The downside is, of course, that it is so easy for important contributors to become lost in the process. Thankfully, we have people making honest efforts to claim this historical data before it is ravaged more by time.
Othias realizing he made an uncorrectable error in like 20 episodes
".....Crusade Were Declared"
Thanks for this excellent episode on Dutch history. Enjoyed it a lot and nice that the curator of our Dutch National Military Museum also helped.
Excellent historical research on the evolution of the DA revolver, guys!
Longtime supporter, first on Patreon and now on Utreon. I'm enjoying these more obscure, developmental pieces.
Othius your good shit my man never miss a episode
These revolver episodes are breaking new ground and discovering forgotten inventors.
We’ve gone from forgotten weapons to forgotten inventors. Amazing!
There is a chance those who copied the design later weren't even aware of the original creator as they probably copied a copy of a copy.
True, it might be interesting to see if they referenced a particular one and if so who.
DAMM! A couple of weeks ago I handled a Vickers Luger! Now I know how they came about. By odd chance, being in England, I was about ten miles from where they were manufactured.
I keep thinking of the flaming fire extinguisher from The IT Crowd every time Othias keeps harping on how the gun wasn't made in Britain.
Lol, now I will too for sure
This will make the night better
Thanks!
I was in the grocery store yesterdat comparing toilet paper roll lengths vs prices and it's truly a nightmare. Definitely one of the better discussions about a firearm I've seen you two have in a while. Keep up the good work!!! Thanks for the escape that your videos give me.
You know what they say.
“If you ain’t Dutch, you ain’t much.”
Best beer in the world.
You can always tell a Dutchman.
You just can't tell them very much.
@@doughesson we know it all…
Nothing like a Dutch Oven to wake up your significant other in the morning.🤢
So... what you're saying is that I need to find a Dutch 1891 private purchase officer's model made by a completely unknown entity in completely unknown quantities.
Damn! Can you make it any more difficult?
I'm just happy you guys keep digging up new information. Keep up the good work
I love how you (man who has spent so many hours researching these arms, and recording all of these videos) keeps learning new historical information, and you "bring the receipts"!
Way to make "automatic rebound" sound like a good band name.
Great content guys, love the old revolvers.
That is so interesting! I so appreciate that you admit that we don't have all the information right now instead of trying to shove it in a nice neat box and claim to know everything.
I've been interested in the M.91 for some time now; really happy to see an episode on it, given the lack of info available for it in English! Thanks for covering it!
Wow, you go very deep in the Dutch/ Indonesian history! Chapeau!
How exciting!! Well done!
All right somebody needs to make a gif meme of Otthias at 108 looking at all the plastic striker fired 9 mm pistols. Maybe put the artwork from vertigo in the background
Loved this episode. So interesting about who did what.
Something tells me the mayvesation was done late at night I love it
Great work gang!
As a Dutchman I must compliment you on your pronunciation of most Dutch words. NICE
Is it just me or someone elsr also feel that this revolver have the same external look as the russian Nagant 1895?
I'm a patron so I've heard some of the Fagnus (I checked, that's really how it's spelled for some reason) information before but that rant by Othais sounded like it had been building for awhile.
LOL @ 50:30 where Othias clearly wants to interrupt Mae again but is frightened of her wrath...
Why do I get this feeling that Othias hadn't slept for like 4 days before making this episode. LOL!!!
Van Heutz killed 20.000 people in the Atjeh war.
Many soldiers came back with PTSD. Having to shoot a father at the road, because he could inform the whole village, was not a task they liked to do. A person considered a threat got shot 4 times in his head. Once burried the ground was still moving.
Those soldiers came back as different persons.
They called it in Dutch: 'tropenkolder' it means directly translation: tropical madness.
I hope we can get a dutch firearms playlist now.
Congratulations on your feat of original scholarship!
Now you can't be like Dan Carlin and use the "I am not a historian" cop -out.
Thanks! Will you make a video on Schwarzlose MG?
Sadly that’s one that they just can’t seem to lay hands on. If a collector ever has one they could borrow “, you can bet they will.
A Dutch gun beat a Swiss gun! Forget the A.I. AR-10's, the 1891 revolver is new hight of Dutch gun manufacturing! Hoera!
Fagnus finally getting the credit they deserve. Just took a hundred forty or so years
Slick little compact of it's time.
I think the Rast & Gasser might get the softest yes for WW1 from Mae now that she’s more familiar with the Abidee system and seen some more handguns of the war. That said, some 8 shot semi autos got a no.
Thanks
MAE IS MADE OF WOOD! SHE TURNED ME I TO A NEWT!
Burn the witch!
Hah. Was watching the first half of the episode thinking "that's a neat little revolver. Would've been great to if it had an abadie system", and lo and behold.
oh no is this where the revolver rabbithole with fangus started
oh boy, this is where the Fagnus rabbit hole started!
I've seen these used after capture by Japanese forces. I do have to wonder how they got ammo. But iirc, it was speculated they were used by guards etc., so probably not a lot of shooting going on.
The Japanese preferred to use swords and bayonets on prisoners…
More of a badge then weapon
Whenever you say that something is 'conical' I hear it as 'comical' and I waste a second wondering what's so funny about it. My brain is broken.
For some reason when i saw it i thought it was a nagant revolver until i did a double take
More old wheel guns is a good thing.
I am disappointed in the lack of entire batches of Revolvers being acquired by the Marechaussee.
The Marechaussee did aquire a large batch of revolvers . 1 they had a Knil section under van Heutsz not the most of friendly people as they where counter insurgence and masters in guerilla warfare . 2 they where an integrated part of the Knil .
There is a series of books with all naval and marechaussee /Knil weapons of the far east , well worth a read . 1860-1941 . Also there are several documents of yearly budgets of colonial and ministery of war.
@@marcusfranconium3392 It was actually a reference to the KNIL dutch Mannlicher episode 131 where different parts of the KNIL army would order carbines and when they arrived they would be "stolen" by the Marechaussee instead.
Simplification by removing unneeded springs is the best simplification.
And one essential part is missing from this gun, the Klewang .
Thanks for the information. I have revolver of that general type, but it does not match precisely the examples that you showed. It does have the Abadie system, but the spring that pushes up on the bottom of the loading gate is not visible. I purchased the gun from what was called crescent arms in New Orleans about 1973 from a small barrel that was full of such revolvers. I just took the first one off the top and figured for $30 dollars it was a good deal.
There seems to be several different cartridges about for that general system of gun. What seems to fit my gun has either a strong taper to the case or maybe being slightly bottle necked. But I need to look into it. There is also said to be a 10.4 mm dutch round. So I am a little confused on the proper ammo for. When I have time I will go over the gun in detail and see if I can find markings. A serial number is not obvious and it may be on the trigger or hammer or simply not visible to due to having been reblued many times. Gun is 100% complete and I will likely try eventually to sell it. Thanks to this video it might go up in price.
I did fabricate many years ago a few rounds using a crudely size down 41 colt 200 grain bullet loaded with 4 grains of unique and the gun was not damaged. I did purchase a few bottle necked cases that seem to fit the gun and if I can get some black powder or black powder substitute might try and fire it again. I purchased a few '9.4 Dutch Revolver Cases" from buffaloarms.com I need to measure the bore. I think it is close to .378, but do not remember.
when you get all of those patents collected, you should publish them with Headstamp.
Big Fan of Mae !!
What time of day did y'all film this Maeversation? Othias seems a bit loopy. 😂
Agreed. Loved the super accurate pointing bit
If the Dutch had spent as much time just being martial as they had on just martial revolvers they could have conquered the world.
Is Othais the most knowledgeable authority on antique revolver mechanisms in the world now?
Dam it the situation must have been bad. they even armed the rejects with revolvers :)
For Mea, you blink with your eyes after each shot.
You can stop blinking, by shooting a lot with just 1 bullet in the revolver. First you will blink even when no bullet goes boom. Spin the cylinder after each shot. Now you get used not to expect to hear a bang, so you won't blink your eyes anymore, even when the gun does go boom, and fire a bullet.
To enhance your aiming, write a letter T with the barrel tip in the air.
First horizontal, make the line, oeps to far so go back a little, now go down oeps to far down, so go up again until the sight has lined up.
If you breath out, hold your breath, it will slow your heartbeat and pull the trigger right before the next haertbeat. Right when the target is in line with your sights.
You can't keep a gun stil.
It is more easy to make a line and fire at the right moment.
When you go down writing your letter T, your target is out of sight, behind the barrel.
So when you go down in a vertical line, you will pass your target, stop go up again until your sight touches the target...and bang, bullseye!
At 10 meters all bullet holes will touch eachother.
Often you will count less holes then the bullets you fired. Meaning that bullets went through old bullet holes you shot before.
I love Mea her eyes, it's a pity to see them blink.
Her voice is super.
I love the sound of her voice when she reads the specs. Coming in at 7 point 3 ounces with a barrel length of 4.5 inches and a length of 8 inches overall. Great voice.
I am Dutch, so appreciate these episodes who dove a little deeper then I am used to see from you.
Antiekewapens dot nl is the Dutch site for sales of old weapons.
Love you both, you have the best UA-cam site about guns around.
Ian in nice, but doesn't come close.
Shake his left hand if you see him or shake his ponytail when you see him again.
Whiskey in the early morning in his bathrobe.
Something wierd.
Irag 8888 are plain stupid and that Russian fake had a cameraman. He was found dead with a bullet in the back of his head. Executed Russian style.
Creepy freak.
I just found out about his cameraman with a headshot, yesterday.
Your UA-cam and the guy from Hungary, cap and ball are the only videos I am subscribed to.
It may be a very silly question because it's not a firearm but... is the maxim silencer something you would like to explore one day?
I just find this little tube so fascinating, yet it is barely remembered !
In the US the dept of tobacco and firearms says a silencer is a firearm lol.
@@loquat44-40 ah nice.
Down in France it is not that much regulated that's why.
@@gordondelacroix253 That is some of the differences between europe and the USA. Our government by nature tries often to be super oppressive and when they outlawed silencers the general population did not care and so they were able to do it. Now semiautomatic versions of military assault weapons they have so far been unable to ban and it looks like our supreme court says the citizens have a right to them. Machine guns are also tightly controlled, but that is now proving impractical with so many full auto glock switches in circulation with criminals.
@@loquat44-40 I always wondered what politicians were thinking when they ban of silencers. Is it because of the hollywood trope they had in mind or just a small crackdown on the 2nd amendment.
@@gordondelacroix253 It was said to be part of a crack down on all of sorts of weapons by the USA power structure. The first laws went after machine guns, silencers, and short barrel shoulder arms. It said they were next going after handguns, but it was not something that the american public was willing to accept. Crime was the excuse, but I think it was the large numbers of people joining the socialist and communist parts during the depression that I think was really the secret force behind it.
The power structure in the USA is very much in favor of disarming the american people as they are most places. Western europe is a good example of that.
Russia and eastern europe in some places are starting to loosen up firearm regulations a little bit. There is some effort needed, but it is possible for a civilian now days to own a semiauto AK or AR in Russia. Takes a minimum of 5 years to do so after the first license. Handguns last I heard were still a big no no over there.
I demand more springs per firearm!!! A revolver made entirely of springs
Crozier! What has Happened To Crozier?
32:20 Nice.
Interesting
Do you guys plan on doing primer episodes on the needle fire rifles I think that would be super cool
In 20 yrs we’ll finally uncover who invented the flat spring.
The video's are as always great but I hope as you guys really start to research some of the more obscure topics everything is also being written down some where for people in the future to find. Imagine how much harder it will be to research some of these guns in another 100yrs.What people fail to appreciate is countries rise and fall with the weapons they procure and sometimes how or when they procure them.
I just don't think the name the Coon revolver will be used much anymore
It's spelled something like Koghn. Not Coon. I know I didn't spell it right either.just seen it one time.
Mae, the bestest lookingest of the hottestiest gunniest gun knowledgeiest people out there!
Groovy
no shooting music this time around?
What are the knil? Where are they? And what are they today?
Last time I checked, The Netherlands doesn't have any colonies anymore. So, I'd say that the KNIL is gone now.
This one was recorded late at night, wasn't it?
Am I wrong or were some of those flat-nosed bullets keyholing?
Its a rast and gasser with the look of S&W 1892
Is she made of wood?
Редкий ствол. Даже Грозаб в своё время не стал крутить патроны и постарался по быстраку избавится от револьвера
I want this revolver
The last episode just dragged on I hated it.
At least with this episode we found Othias was a wizard at pointing
For some reason I find these guns for sale somehow
Yes a Primer woo hoo
hey Othais do you do any shooting and not Mae?
M stands for Marine (Navy).
Am I the only one who thought that getting shot by this projectile at any distance greater than 75 yards while wearing a military uniform may not give the intended penetration results?
I see why people wanted automatic pistols.
Anyone got a commercial source of ammo for the 1891 KNIL revolver?
Exactly what I'm looking for. Or the bits and pieces so that I can "Roll my own". Where did they find that nice shiny brass?
@@tomvanaalst5790 Cases can be made from .41 mag cases and they need to be fire formed. Buffalo Arms made/has/had cases. *has* (according to their website) and pretty affordable too. I'm not sure about reloading kit, I just made my own way back in the early 1990's but as long as you can set primers, reloading them is as easy as it could be. Use 3F (real) black powder (no need to crimp, just measure volume, fill the case up and seat the bullet by hand, don't compress the powder, they like soft lead and plenty of the slippery stuff. The cases last for ages, I still use a few from the first batch, lost most in the grass hahaha) but cleaning them asap as well as annealing them every 6-7 loads is a good idea as they do harden.
@@SEPedersen Thanks
Tbh this round seems anemic for stopping power.
How is the name of this original inventor spelled, the automated subtitles "fanyu" can't be correct ;p
Alexandre Fagnus
@@derekp2674 Thanks
Comment for al gores rhythm
Lets go brandon
Boy that's a wimpy cartridge.
Comment that shall remain
that shall remain