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How Much Better is a PDW vs Pistol [Range Talk]
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- Опубліковано 18 сер 2024
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Henry and Josh return to the close range after a long break, to shoot a little pistol and see how much their skills have degraded....plus, how easy it is to offset that lack of training with a PDW.
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00:00-01:43 - First Shots
01:43-03:45 - Handgun Skills Degrade
03:45-05:30 - Introducing the MP5K
05:30-08:28 - The Lie Told to New Female Shooters
08:28-10:10 - Barrel Length & Hollow Points
10:10-13:20 - PDWs are FAR Easier to Shoot
13:20-15:42 - Carrying PDWs
15:42-20:08 - Shooting Bill Drills
![What is a PDW? [The 4 types of Personal Defense Weapons]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5eEt4Y_STOw/mqdefault.jpg)
![What is a PDW? [The 4 types of Personal Defense Weapons]](/img/tr.png)
![First Shots on a NYPD Police Glock (12lb Trigger) vs Timberwolf Gucci Glock [Range Talk]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xGARq7Jdb-0/mqdefault.jpg)
![[UA] Team Vitality проти NAVI | IEM Cologne 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wttO1zVRTC0/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi, PDW facts here. Great video.
Some of the best pistol shooters will match, or get out performed by a competent or mediocre shooter with a PDW/PCC
More importantly a poor pistol shooter with a little bit of rifle experience will likely exceed a top percentile pistol shooter.
It is very easy to get someone to hit a 100 yard torso 75% of the time with a PDW, while that is very difficult for most with a handgun even before we factor in adrenaline (which stocks help dampen)
People vastly overrate how good they are on pistols, and just assume that moving beyond the handgun should be all about terminal effect. But really, considering how comically bad a lot of shootouts with handguns go. I think the conversation should probably still remain on actually getting hits on target.
Currently as a civilian, the world doesn't let you bring a AR15, or a small 300blackout to 99% of situations. A small
Our "Brass Signal" worked - he's here guys
Also:
Henry... please. Stop. I can't afford more PDWs, stop showing off that mp5k.
@@BrassFacts #FundRaiserForBrassMP5Now
Sure you can ...
You know you can ...
Ass Facts!!
I just assumed this was a brass facts vid giving the subject lmao
Literally saw the title and thought "oh sweet a new brass facts video" lol
Its not 2 hours long so probably not hahah
@@kobeh6185 ROFL
Did the same thing. Brass facts did more for the pdw community than anyone else
😂😂😂
The honesty of people running a gun channel not hitting a pistol range for months is such a relief for a busy guy like me.
man it turns into a chore when going out to the range is working every thing. It's turns into a very conscious effort to have to push yourself with pistols, which means even more time away from family, friends, and work.
@@9HoleReviews I was wondering if women would like Bullpups more due to their more balanced set up, their shorter set up maybe? I think it would be an interesting video.
Pdw's would probably be more popular is if wasn't for the cost involved. You're already 1K+ for the gun in most cases, then you have to either pay for a brace, or pay for a stock, $200 sbr stamp, attachments, magazines, ect. And if you go the Latter route, you now have to play by both rifle & sbr rules.
All true
Yeah, and I would be really interested to see person, concealed carry carry SP5K. Or openly carry it as a matter of fact 😀 And yes, I know those super tactical backpack exists. Question is PDW for what situation? I would argue that only real advantage SP5K has compare to 5.56 or worse 300 blackout - it can be really-really short. Packed. And that is it. All other - disadvantages.
@@vladimirpecherskiy1910 Lighter weight, and probably most important, lighter, cheaper, and much more available ammo. 9mm has got to be the most abundant round in the us. You are now boosting the capabilities of said round. You can also get sub sonic 9mm and said sub sonic 9mm is easier to get to cycle reliably with a suppressor than 300blk. With my ches rig, i could carry 8 ar mags. On the same chest rig, i could carry 16 pdw mags. Not that id bring a pdw to a war zone but it makes the point.
@@dar5647 I am sorry, carry where exactly? In what battle you would need 16 mags for PDW? You going to protect yourself against a company of enemy with suppressive fire? 😄And that anеmy same time not too big - so you want to use sonic for 9mm? Why would you need sonic 9mm - realistically? Yes, 9mm somewhat lighter - but what noticeable difference it made for PDW?
Ammo might be cheaper - I do not know - but not make difference for price range of that gun + accessories. And this is not super durable gun. And it is not lighter - it is shorter, yes.
@@vladimirpecherskiy1910 i was making a point dip shit, not stating that i need 16 mags. The other pouches saved by carrying the same loadout in less pouches could be used to carry a myriad of other things. Also lmao on the rest of your points. As if a rifle kitted out isnt typically 3k plus. As if sub sonic isnt fucking obvious as to why youd want it. As if guns are some how less durable because they are in 9mm. I highly doubt any pcc sbr or pistol isnt lighter than a rifle in 5.56 or something else. Or its a cucked super short rifle with trash ballistics for 5.56.
I shoot pistols quite a bit and consider myself an ok shot at best, but when I pick up my 9mm pcc I'm suddenly blown away at how much easier and faster it is to get rounds on target and where I want them to go. If it wasn't for certain Federal rules I really think we would see more firearms like the MP5K in use as well as more development along the lines of things like the Flux Raider. Sadly all your video really did for me is make me want to get a MP5K/Thanks a lot guys!
I am building a Raider as we speak. BEACUSE of the SBR laws I went with a brace on purpose to make is not a pain to travel with.
6:45
Missed opportunity to do the "THAT'S MY PURSE, I DON'T KNOW YOU!" Bobby Hill drill
you and me should be friends hahahah dang it Bobby
I welcome the return to including close range content!
Same!
We've heard you guys - we'll be dropping much more close-range stuff this year.
Come on out to Tomball! My back yard is your oyster
@@9HoleReviewsNice!! Seems like wasted potential to have a Grand Master that just does spotting
@@9HoleReviews I love the close range stuff sm
Henry once again shows exquisite taste with the Walther P99
It’s because of you guys , I’m getting a sp5k and modernizing it.
Our latest victim
Good man
You won’t regret it.
The K is def the way to go. That’s what I did
Think about the scorpion. The MP5's handling is really outdated. Still a nice gun obviously.
This is exactly why the new P365 Raider has me VERY excited.
Price is king. If I can get a full PCC for cheaper than a chassis, I'll just get the 2nd gun. But I agree if the price is reasonable, I'd pick up a raider for sure
@@thecheesedipprice isn’t king - the better gun is king, and the best gun is the one you have on you, the one you can deploy in 1-1.5 seconds. That’s the Raider 365 (or Raider X, just tougher to carry). A few hundred dollars is nothing if it saves your life.
Pistol chassis are a nice gimmick but really no substitute for the real thing. Trust me, I've been there. I could shoot my pistol with iron sights more accurately than the chassis with an optic. Chassis was faster though.
@@Vanalos sorry, but you being more accurate with irons than a stabilized platform with optics is purely a weird skill issue
@@thecheesedipprice isn't king here. Flux P365 will have no competitor for the niche it fills.
MP5 is my primary Home Defense Weapon so I don’t blow my ears out with a 5.56… I also got my Grandparents to get a FM9 (9mm AR) because its easy to shoot and the price was great, my brother recommended giving my 100LB grandma a damn 12 Gauge shotgun and I said “Hell NO”. 😂😂😂
They got the FM9 and its never had a malfunction. (Around 1,000 rounds through it)
"You've been working on me getting an mp5 for seven years..."
And that is what a true friend does, may we all have a friend like Henry.
We always knew Henry was a man of culture. But the P99 is peak compact pistol. I carry one also
First gun I bought when I turned 21 was a P99. Still have it and shoot it 20 years later with no malfunctions or broken parts. Excellent firearm
my company supplied me witha wenger ibex 17" laptop back pack, in the second compartment I can fit an mp5k with 20 rounder side folded brace and sling. This is addition to my edc glock 17/x300 rmr. I carry medical and a set of spare mags in the next smallest pocket. No one has ever noticed it in 3 years of use.
Out of curiosity, what are you supposed to carry in your backpack?
@@ninemirrors a laptop, note pad, swag, etc.
And why exactly are you doing so - you are working in high level personal security or a drug cartel? 😃
This would also be my exact setup if I had that kind of cheese to put into it. This is about as good as it gets without going full combat loadout
@@c-jam6392 i did the ap5k so its cheap, needed to replace the extractor and mag springs as they were faulty out of the box but besides that its been flawless going on about 2k rounds.
I own a B&T APC9 and shoot this gun often in a 50m Range.
Allmost every time there is a dude asking me if he can shoot a few rounds. Every time they are surprised how easily they ca hit the small center of the target at 50m.
It‘s so much easier to place solid hits even with not much skills.
I have shot my APC several times at greater distances (100-250m). At the farther distances the point of aim and point of impact starts to deviate significantly but after a few rounds you get the feeling for it.
An other thing i recognised after shoting pistols and my APC for over a decade is the higher tolerance to diffrent ammo loadings in the APC.
It shoots allmost with every loading the same not like pistols (in switzerland we use mainly the SIG 210 / P49 for competition).
The PCCs are great PDW and get the most out of the 9mm cartridge. They are more compact than an AR15 even with a 7“ barrel and certainly less noisy.
Here in Switzerland most Police cars are equipped with an APC9 or a HK MP5 and they are mostly used on high risk missions or for euthanizing badly wounded animals which got hit by car.
Thank you guys for the top content you are creating, I do really appreciate it!
Greetings from Switzerland
I don't need a PDW with my lifestyle. But thanks to this video, I now realize how much more practical they are, than I thought
Not only is the MP5k one of my favorite guns as an adult man, but it is amazing for women and first time shooters as well.
Anything with a stock going to be better. Longer barrel and longer sight radius all good.
More points of contact is the most important factor.
I just wanna see more PDWs in high power cartridges like 10mm or 7.5 FK
Or even 40 s&w with a longer barrel pushing them past pistol 10mm velocity with less recoil and cost
Facts. I’d sell my soul for a 7.5 FK roller delayed PDW.
Rattler in 300 blk
I've been itching for someone to do the same as long as its in a smaller design like the TP9 or the Flux Raider.
You can make one by buying glock in 10mm and BT USW for that
I need a PDW. I just can’t get out and shoot my pistol enough to be effective past 7-10 yards. A PDW would be perfect for home defense and a car gun. Great video. This is becoming my favorite gun channel. Keep up the good work guys!
The most EDC thing in this video is Josh's golf pants.
They're comfortable, yet practical
@@9HoleReviews tactical*
To make it benchmark mp5k should be in bag before you start shooting
I agree with Josh that sub guns are really nice for wives especially smaller women.
My wife can't shoot a handgun to save a life, so she carries a BT APC9K in a diaper bag. It's real small and lighter than a MP5 variant
@@UndertheTreesPNWit feels kind of surreal in needing a PDW for your daily routine. Is your neighbourhood that dangerous?
@@hippoace she can't hit shit with a handgun.
Hey guys, BrassFacts here.
I'm glad you mentioned the wife side of this, as mine has the same basic complaints and conclusions. Se liked shooting my Garand but couldn't hold it unsupported, so I built her a lightweight AR. She didn't like the muzzle blast and hated shooting it. I traded for a KS7 with low recoil rounds which she would shoot - but didn't care for. Got an MP5 and two extortion stamps and now she wants to go to the range. If I had to do it again I would probably buy the K and the shortest length of pull stock I could, because everything is just slightly oversized for her frame.
As for the tiny pistols, she hated them because they all have un-contoured hard plastic grips with sharp texturing which tear her hands up. She carried the CZ RAMI over everything we tried until the KelTec P32, and that P32 is the only pistol without full feature grips that she has any interest in shooting.
Always said pistol skills are like golf, if you don't play at least once per week, then the rot sets in quickly.
I love the camera setup, feels very organic
Ooh, that's something I've been wondering about for a while
I used to think that there isn't much difference, except for convenience / concealability and weight, let's see what I was wrong about
Also, it's a good day when we get to see Josh shoot!
Nice. If you did a review on politicians and guns, you could title it 'A-Hole Reviews'. 😅
Thanks to you guys and BrassFacts, I now own a B&T TP9, something I never thought I'd spend that much money on.
And after the build is coming in at about $4k, I just ordered Gigliotti Rifleworks Short Stroke Trigger kit for it, adding another $400.
Long live the PDW.
Man, I'm hoping Gigliotti doesn't take too long to get the kits made and shipped out. I still have emails from them saying they were pushing a September 2023 release. Hopefully all that extra time means the triggers will be unproblematic cause the trigger is the only thing I have an issue with.
@@DrWolfensteinz Yeah, they projected for it to launch in November but blew it. I hope they're solid asf. Looks to be a drop in system. I hope they close the pre-order soon and just crank them out as fast as they can cuz I have a big range day on the 24th lol.
@@DrWolfensteinz and yeah the trigger honestly breaks the gun. It's so bad, sometimes I think the safety is on haha. I hope it's as amazing as they have hyped it up to be.
Would you be interested in trying long rance pistol/pdw/pcc shooting?
It would be very nice to see the behaviour at the limits and maybe discuss ammunition choises, barrel length and caliber selection.
As my wife got older, she started to struggle using her Glock 19. So, for carry in her purse and car, a .380 is now the solution. She is comfortable shooting it and has a lot more confidence than she has with 9MM. For home defense, we made two additions. First, a FN PS90 full 16im secured in a vault under her side of the bed. The bullpup design makes it just about as small when shouldered as a short barreled PDW and she is extremely comfortable shooting it and actually enjoys doing so. It is fitted with an always on red dot for which I change the battery every 6 months. I believe that the 50 round mag instills extra confidence in my wife, thus making her a better shooter with it. Secondly, I got her a very expensive and very well trained, PDD, that is a personal defense dog. Our 'hypoallergenic" Giant Schnauzer follows her around and goes everywhere with her and "knows" that her primary function in life is to protect mom.
This is my wife's exact setup for home defense or road trips.
All the parts are arriving for my Flux Raider build. It could have been a sub $1200 project but I used an X Carry Legion as a base for the threaded barrel and better trigger. I can't wait to train.
Yall have really upped your game! Not that previous content wasnt good, because it is and was very good but this stuff is pretty cool!
You're enjoying the more open-conversation topics that we're hitting on the Range Talk episodes?
@@9HoleReviews yes. I really like the long range stuff too but variety is good. I like how you guys take service rifles and stretch them out.
9-Hole Reviews at range 9. My fav to reserve! Great vid.
A fellow man of culture - if you see us out there come say 'what's up'
This was spot on for my wife, she has a Sig 365 XL and she shoots it to stay efficient with it but it was minimum. But when I got her to try the CZ scorpion she liked it, then we got an AK-V, she liked that a bit better (its heavy for her) Now we have an Palmetto AR-V and I don't get to shoot it much as she loves it so much.
Slightly different context. I got derided for carrying a man purse, so I pulled out my SLR with a 70-210 zoom lens
Your man purse must be substantial to carry an L1A1 SLR. Respect. 🫡
That gign confidence drill is insane.
The Vertx Commuter works very well. Will fit a suppressed rattler, while remaining low profile.
I like a pcc or pdw for home Defense. Lower concusion for indoor use and lower recoil for rapid fire up close. But capable of 100 yard shots with ease for shots across the property
I wish you guys would have included the hybrid option. Pistol in a chassis. Flux Raider comes to mind.
"This is not a piss, this is a purse!"
Josh's "only" MP5.
The pair of you are killing me.
Great video and conversation. The degradation of pistol skills is just an excuse to go shooting them more :) Well done, Gents. Would love to see more content in this format.
firearm shooting is akin to golf. Tiny movements and an object traveling over distance make it a fun yet challenging skill to master.
I use my 365xl in uspsa, I am a masochist. I do want that new 365 raider and my wife saw that said and she would like that as a home defense gun.
I do the same thing. Now I’m gunning for master with the Raider 365. Last classifier would have been solid master if I hadn’t have dropped a shot. I’ll start practicing sometime soon 😂
Facts. Great video.
PDWs are functionally more accurate(contact points and control) and far more useable than most will admit. Handguns are great at bad breath distance, but PDWs are a better option when you get a little space. The points on spouses and PDWs is very important. Factor in the lack of blast that a PCC has over rifle calibers, and they become an even better option for home defense.
Good show my friends. I like to see a little different content every once in a while. I've been down the same rabbit hole.😢
The MP5 was perfected with a claw mount, CompM2 and Surefire handguard.
The PDW was perfected with the MP5k w/ Choate stock, m21 light mount and EoLad
You’re right a hollow point traveling faster than it’s designed to will not penetrate as deep but you can’t forget about the excessive damage that the higher foot pounds of energy will cause. This is something that has to be tested to see. I guess what we’re looking for is what has a higher incapacitation curve, meaning what stops the threat faster.
I think a place where this concept can shine isn't necessarily EDC, but home defense. I tried out a S&W FPC with my fiancée. Not a PDW, but a carbine that folds up to a very small size. One can be had for maybe a fifth of the amount for an MP5K. She felt much more confident with the FPC and got much better results than with my Glock 19. For an average user who has neither the time nor money to invest, it can be a viable solution for home protection.
More pdw content please!
love this channel
Love the idea and content of this.
Love the PDW content guys!
Nothing makes me laugh more than people who permanently wear cargo pants and tactical jackets griping about sub compact pistols. My mom is a teacher, she's not concealing an mp5 with her in the classroom. I'm an AEMT, I'm not going to shove one up my prison pocket at work either. My EDC needs to be convenient to carry and get the job done should I need it. I don't care about comfort when the moment requires. Elisjsha Dickens didn't need a PDW to extinguish a rifle wielding threat in a mall.
I agree with the Brass Facts video that PDWs make the most sense at the beginning of an apocalyptic scenario. Having said that, I argue that PDWs must feature the terminal ballistics of a rifle, if only at short distances. What's the point of a rifle sized package giving me pistol ballistics?
Great video, Josh and Henry! Curious to hear what you and the ladies think about the soon-to-be-released PSA X57 and Tommy Built T7.
You should have compared the same pistol being shot in-hand vs being put into a PDW chassis like the CAA MCK. That would have been more apples to apples, and made your point better. Great video regardless
Seeing those M90 trousers warms my heart :)
To make this realistic, let's do the shot timer and you have to draw the "PDW" from the bag and shoot.
This. Starting gun in hand versus gun in carry condition should yield some interesting data.
The real answer is to have a pistol and pdw that takes the same cartridge and magazines.
A common cartridge is probably more important than magazine tbh. Pistol mags are made for pistols, and using them in a PCC may incur reduced reliability or other functioning issues. Which is why when militaries adopt submachine guns, they make sure it’s in the handgun ammo they use but don’t care if it uses handgun mags.
I think the best concealed carry for a PDW is a sling bag like Vertx Transit and like. I recently got stribog SP9A3s, it fits it nicely and draw is just a bit slower than pistol.
As we speak, I plan to get it on the range this weekend, set optic an check accuracy/dispersion, drop up to 100m.
So I got mixed results with different ammo. Shot from tripod, sitting position. 4x magnification.
The consistent ones were: 147gr JHP Magtech, 124gr JHP Sterling and 140gr FMJ S&B.
At 75 and 100m I got 7-8ish MOA 9 round groups with 7 best of 9 being 4.5 MOA ish. Not bad for a 4,5" barrel.
At 75m, 150 grain S&B was just 4.5 MOA from right to left, but the variation in vertical was whole @13 MOA with 7 of 9 @10 MOA
124gr STV FMJ was similar at @15/10 MOA while 6.5 right/left.
100g was S&B XRG similar overall dispersion in MOA, just more uniform and round, but at just 50m.
115gr S&B FMJ is pending judgment. I ran out of them before making a 9 round group, but got 10MOA 7 rounds and 6 of 7 @ just below 8 MOA at 50m.
124gr S&B was totally unimpressive. When ranging I had a group that had 4 rounds all outside 13 MOA circle @50m with their center roughly in bullseye... I immediately swapped to 115gr.
Another thing that surprised me that at same scope setting, it was not heavy subsonic rounds that flew lowest, it was the 124gr S&B and SVT (not sterling though, that flew 2nd highest just after the XRG). 140gr SUB was still higher than 115gr S&B.
I will need to gather more data, make averages and explore grouping more thoroughly from 25-100m to see which round are generally inconsistent, which have limited number of inconsistencies in bigger numbers, and which are good up to some shorter distance.
So it seems I found my round, Norma 124gr FMJ and JHP are cheap and perform very nice, around 6 MOA @50m with 7of9 4.5ish MOA. The JHP even produced 3.5cm/1.4" group @25m with 7/9 in 1 inch.
Sterling confirmed it's consistency with similar results @ 50m.
140gr S&B was moved to mediocre category - either was lucky before, or I took some bad rounds this time.
115gr S&B was confirmed as mediocre and falling way low compared to other rounds.
Just for those purchasing Stribog: Short flat nosed bullets and wide hollow points tend to jam last round at least with 20rd mag. Sterling is borderline, sometimes happens. S&B SUBs and Norma JHP almost always.XRGs and Magtechs no problem. Other than that I had one stovepipe over ~ 250 rounds (was 140grs S&B).
The Savior Equipment mini range bag is the perfect range bag for the MP5K.
Back 20 years in my golden youth, PDWs were the gold standard for executive protection, where a pistol was the backup weapon. Conversely in civilian life, your living environment and associated garb limits practicality, and to an extent, your choices with regards to hardware. When you roll in a suit and soft armor all day, having a shoulder sling tucked up against you isn't terribly inconvenient. But if you live somewhere that's more associated with a hellish summer 9 months of the year, the 'gun guy' outfit with a vest is 1000% not available.
Frankly, I'm more interested in developing a better, more concealable PDW that falls within attainability and legality lines than ever before, but there's few--if any--commercial options that you could really depend on year round. It's a huge, gaping hole in the market that no one evidently wants to plug.
Challenge accepted.
Among trained shooters, there's little difference in performance between a pistol and a PCC under the typical home defense and CCW use distances. Go to a practical shooting match, and you'll almost always find pistol shooters outperforming the people bringing in their PDWs/PCCs to the match. And this is DESPITE the fact PCCs are typically given easier rules due to safety concerns, and typically don't need to reload mid-stage because the rules allow them to have 50 round mags. Between a high-level PCC/PDW user, and high-level pistol shooter, the scores are extremely similar at the top.
Where one will notice a difference in performance between a pistol and PCC, is with novice shooters (so basically 99.9% of the population). For the average person who doesn't compete, doesn't train, doesn't study up on the subject, etc. A PCC/PDW is a great option. Cheaper practice ammo (compared to 5.56/308/x39) shares ammo with your pistols, typically smaller and more lightweight than a rifle, and they're less concussive/quieter than a rifle.
We're talking about the same thing here. Pistols require more training and more frequent training to be on par with a PDW.
@@9HoleReviews I wasn't contradicting, just adding something that wasn't mentioned. That among the top, the gap in performance closes.
I like to use the concept of "training load" . How much training ( hrs/rounds) are required to reach YOUR competence criteria.
A smaller pistol has a higher training load than a larger one.
A pistol has a higher training load than shoulder weapon.
Fairairns "Shoot To Live" discusses the expected training load for his advised weapon and gives round count/range hours and expected performance before parachuting agents behind enemy lines.
Having taught a fair number of very small women, most men have no practical understanding of how much upper bdy strength differs. Women in shooting sports and police/mil are in the upper bracket of female strength.
In my opinion, any weapon bigger or heavier than M1 carbine is too much. Moving the centre of gravity rearwards with magazine in grip layout should be considered.
For 9mm PCC, simple blowback requires heavy bolt or heavy spring, neither good for manual handling with a weak grip.
Really learn and enjoy, thanks
I miss my MP5 sub gun so much. HK made the best PDW/sub-gun ever. Fun video. During the Rodney King riots, I wore an MP5K, with 15-round mag, under a button down shirt on the way to work in the HK shoulder rig for the PDW. Easily accessible and concealable.
Josh got that 80-90s showman energy I just dunno how to express it.
Love the range talk, chill experience. :)
I understand that increased bullet fragmentation on soft targets-and/or splattering on harder targets-has more to do with an increase in rotational velocity. Rotational velocity reportedly stays pretty much constant until a bullet loses rotational stability. A fellow shooter had his sporterised Brno rechambered to 8mm-06 and found that the Speer 175 grain projectile was blowing up on red deer. They still died but there was greater meat wastage. That is why an 8x68 S barrel has a standard twist rate of 1-280mm as opposed to 1-240mm for the 8.2x57 IS and the 8x64 S-a military trials cartridge which ended up as a hunting round and potential post-WW2 sniper round.
I always love it when I see a 9whole review video.
9 whole reviews!?
@@joeymedina7115 yes 9 whole reviews ;)
My wife’s EDC is an Sig P365 Rose 9mm specifically because her hands are so small that anything bigger compromises her grip. She has to alter it to get her trigger to reach the trigger. But her long gun is an 8.5” 300blk.
Lehigh Defense, solid copper projectiles work great at higher velocity. Deep penetration, large diameter permanent wound channel, no fragmentation.
Im very excited for the RT 20/20 that I got today. It'll be my "Truck Pistol"
If only MP9 can have a better trigger and be affordable then it will be the best of both worlds. Although UZI pro is affordable it's trigger and weight kinda sucks.
Wonder how people own a SBR because of Henry or his cousin;)
The PSA we have MP7 at home Brass Fact's PDW vid, and this have me planning some exciting new changes to my EDC if the MP5.7 is at all decent and reliable.
P99 sniper's pistol nice carry there 👏
I wonder how a stocked pistol like the Flux Raider or USW-G would compare. I suspect it would be less eminently shootable, but it would be much more concealable and fit in smaller bags or even under a jacket.
Probably better than a straight pistol but legally speaking for the US via a vis a concealed purpose built PDW, they're both SBRs. So realistically you'd have to prove they're better then, or equal to, a dedicated PDW before they're relevant for defensive purposes... unless you REALLY see a dimensional difference.
@@viceadmiralcongoThere is a massive size difference between Flux designs and other PDWs. The Raider 365 which I appendix carry and compete with has a longer barrel than these MP5ks at 6 inches, and yet is only 9.75” long, and I can draw it in 1.25 seconds. Sure, it doesn’t shoot as soft as an MP5, but it’s very controllable, ergos are much better, costs half as much, trigger is way better, and it’s half the weight.
@@BenfromFlux Hi Ben from Flux! (Release a Glock model!) I agree with your assessment - I haven’t used one of your products or any stocked pistol, but people I trust have. They say that hit probability and controllability go way way up compared to a handgun. Effective range does not, but that isn’t the point of your product. Really I want to see a Raider vs Kurz PCC comparison at some point. They’re both great ideas but I want to see the strengths and weaknesses of each.
@@seraph045 Working on it, hopefully they will be done by the end of the year.
@@BenfromFlux Good to hear! The one feature which will put you above the competition is a way to carry it with round in the chamber safely.
Can’t wait for the new Flux raider
Anyone with a basic understanding of firearms and firearms instruction will be able to demonstrate that a braced pistol with a loner sight radius will be more accurate than a pistol. A pistol is inherently difficult to shoot accurately. A handgun is a self-defense weapon intended for spare of the moment unplanned incidents.
I'm waiting for the MAC-5. I'm not spending the money on HK. I have a SP9-A3 Stribog that takes Scorpion mags and love it. I've always wanted an MP-5 since Die Hard and seeing every counter terror unit carry them in the 1980s. I think PDWs excel in the HD and truck gun roles, and pistols excel at concealment. One thing that seems obvious to me is that the increased control that a PDW allows makes them safer. Especially in a high stress situation. It is the same reason for the AFT to quit regulating SBRs.
You telling me that 3 points of contact is going to make me shoot more efficiently? Wow 🤯
4 points - you have a cheek right?
A shouldered weapon will always outperform a handheld for a given level of proficiency. However, let's normalize the comparison.
We have stock iron sighted pistols that haven't been fired in 6 months vs super taco'd MP5s that have seen a lot of use. After the first few pistol shots the rest of the video was spent admiring the shiney stuff. That is not a vs video.
Since we carry pistols and not the MP5s that are left at home, devote that same ratio to pistol work. And carry something worthwhile like a Walther PDP SD Pro with a Holosun 508T or similar.
After adequate training, run drills with each. I bet you'll find you don't lose as much to a pistol as you might think.
Right as flux teases a new tiny raider
Nice M90 pants =)
Season 1 StarGate VIBES
I definitely get the pistol / pdw dilemma. Coming from shooting pistol indoors exclusively, I recently got an HK .223 rifle and on top of that a 9mm AR. The day only has 24 hours and my bank account is limited. The good thing is, after some time exclusively doing rifle stuff, the pistol also feels more fun and rewarding again.
Guys, I ain't rolling into an EZ-Mart to buy diapers on a Saturday night wearing sweatpants and flip flops carrying a laptop bag. Not to mention, that if shit suddenly goes down at the register, that Walther on my hip is a lot closer to action than the SP-5 in my man-purse. The MP-5 is a truck gun for guys that drive King Ranch edition trucks.
Neither are we, we lightly touched on this and said it's obviously not for every scenario, or most scenarios at that, but it could still be a consideration in some situations.
Warms my heart to see walthers as a daily carry
As amazing and expensive as these 2 guns are, I feel like daily carry and use would be better with a pistol chassis like the flux.
The PDW is a great concept. 9mm isnt expensive, you can use it in indoor tanges, and its effective enough at personal defense ranges. It wont really replace a pistol since you can conceal a pistol on you and still do daily activities.
I introduced a couple of new adult shooters to a variety of firearms last weekend. They had a ton of fun with everything but the 2 guns that left the biggest grins on their faces were a cz .22 rifle and my suppressed MPX. After a day of shooting they were hitting shotgun shells at 15 yards with the .22 and a six inch gong at 100 yards with the MPX. The pistols were much more of a challenge, and to further prove the point they hammered the same targets they weren’t getting close to with a pistol with my friends M1 carbine.
Haha that's awesome - ensuring someone has an enjoyable experience can be a critical piece in them 'wanting' to proceed down the path of getting armed, trained, etc.
@@9HoleReviews I’m pretty sure they will be having the adult version of the Red Ryder BB gun talk with their wives
shooting a rifle is like riding a bike
shooting a pistol is like riding a unicycle
Great overview!
i mean you could just buy a mp5k special ops briefcase and daily it like a legend
Ben stiller looks great. ❤
Those MP5s are sickkk........ but People need to realize that any gun used in a self defense situation where someone is shot the police/detectives are going to confiscate that firearm and the owner may or may not ever get that firearm back again.......... using an HK MP5 for the average person for self defense makes absolutely no sense and probably not even affordable, you guys should both elaborate how mush money you have into each one of those guns and also let viewers know about the other more cost effective options, a pcc also makes more sense because in a real life self defense shooting your most likely not gonna have hearing protection on and rifle calibers can cause permanent hearing damage and even be disorienting with no ear pro on to the shooter where with a pcc is less likely......... good video
Poors need not apply.
Bonus points for the Swedish M/90 pants
Ill definately tell my wife she needs to carry an MP5 to replace her s&w jframe or g43. She will be thrilled. 2 kids and an mp5... makes sense. Just add another backpack to the kids bags and the diaper bag. Or keep the mp5 in the diaper bag... im sure the daycare wont mind when we leave it with them for the baby lmao. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in the training and tactical world we loose sight of the real world. Whats a reliable mp5 clone going for these days? In a perfect world we could all have mp7s in a sling bag on our backs just incase.... and i do carry something bigger when possible especally in todays world if i have a vehicle... but the cost of entry for a pdw is ridiculous for an average guy. You going to carry your sling bag out on service calls as your doing your plumbing or electrical jobs, or working retail? probably not, so a pistol probrably makes more sense. But if youve got the money and your lifestyle allows you to always have a sling bag within arms reach heck yeah carry something bigger. Its just not going to work for most of us or our partners at this stage, but everyone is different and you can tailor what you need to fit you. Lots of options.
Why is this not the most popular gun tube channel!