Which barrel length is best for an AR-15? We perform the ultimate tests.
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2023
- Everyone argues but few do, today we put our money where our mouth is and perform some testing on different barrel lengths to find the best barrel length.
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I've found 3 inches is a very effective and versatile length. Served me well for years
We are talking about barrel length not your...
That's Not what she said.
Wow, very original...
@trevorm0329 How thick is it? Is that the reason why you've lasted this long?
@Shark_Theory oh, OH, then disregard. Yeah, 11.3 is nice and compact, but you lose velocity and accuracy at range. I'd say 16
I’d love to have seen a 20” barrel against the 16”…
It starts to gain less per inch around 18", you still get gains just less.
Would have smoked everything on that table
Paul Harrell did a video on this. His results showed that the 20" didn't offer much over the 16.
So 4 inches *is* just as good as 8 ?
Let's get you to bed, grandpa.
I think the main reason 13.7 exists is because of US firearms laws. 13.7 is the minimum you can pin and weld a good flash hider/muzzle brake while maintaining a rifle status.
Also, this could have been a great collab between you and Paul Harrel, I mean he is the chrono master.
I think maybe you mean 14.5"... That's the bbl length I went with for my pin & weld upper.
But if there are some 2.5" muzzle devices out there for that purpose it wouldn't shock me.
@@j.h.6328 psa has been making 13.7 pin and welded for a couple of years now. As well as a few other companies
@@j.h.6328the biggest one is the SOLGW NOX.
@@georgelambo5145solgw 13.7” is the g.o.a.t. 13.7”💯
@@j.h.632814.5 used to be the only option for pinned and welded until more recently
Very cool to see the actual performance in a direct comparison like this, makes me interested to see a similar test but for AR-10s
I'm interested in what that hot 6.8 M7 does with different barrel lengths. If the pressure is still 80,000 psi when it exits the 13 inch barrel, I have to assume it will scream out of a long barrel, like the one on th M250. Better to be behind it, than in front of it.
I feel like not having the 20 inch, which is basically the control, is a shame.
the 20 inch just isn't the one that is being argued over in forums.
That’s what .223 was designed for. As you know.
@@isaactrujillo76I thought it was originally designed for a 22” ?
@@OneSlowCbr I believe that was the 222 Remington.
@@isaactrujillo76 thank you for the info man🫡
Would have loved to see an 18 and 20 added to the testing
They are too tacticool for those lengths.
A 20 inch ar is kinda dumb. Unless it's 308
Why not the 32 inch God barrel?
@@tjn2254no no no.
Yeah, that was my first thought.
This video was both educational and entertaining. Great job, GT. Next up you should do velocity and POI changes with various silencers!.
This was a really great comparison of these barrels. Excellent job on this video!
It was cool to see Micah’s transformation from behind the camera to in front of the camera. Even his own channel is very cool to watch.
It’s great to see these strapping young neurodivergent bucks GT has brought up turn out to be capable content contributors beyond techies.
WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IN GOD OR NOT YOU WILL KNEEL BEFORE HIM ON JUDGEMENT DAY AND HE WILL GO THROUGH EVERY WORD YOU SAID/EVERY THOUGHT YOU HAD/EVERY SIN YOU DID. YOU WONT BE ABLE TO ARGUE WITH HIM EITHER. WITHOUT ACCEPTING JESUS SACRIFICE FOR YOUR SINS YOU WILL BE GUILTY. YOURE EITHER FOR GOD OR AGAINST GOD & THERE IS BUT 1 GOD (its not satan/buddha/allah).
JESUS IS RETURNING VERY VERY SOON WITH JUDGEMENT! THINGS ARE ABOUT TO GET FAR WORSE THAN ANY TIME IN HISTORY. TURN FROM SIN, REPENT! TURN TO JESUS BEFORE ITS TOO LATE, WE CAN DIE AT ANY MOMENT!
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."-John 14:6
"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."-Matthew 10:33
“For the wages of sin is death (hell), but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord”-Romans 6:23
Israel did 9/11
@@Mrshucasfr? That's dope as hell
@@pvtschmuckateli283you got some videos to back those words up?
Choosing the correct barrel length: Step 1) get a 20” barrel. Step 2) that’s it. You’re done.
Based
Yup
Step 3) welcome to 1976!
And M193 ammo
It’s all fun and games with a 20” until you want to run a suppressor, get into a car, or walk through a doorway
I love my 16 inch real steel Daniel defense v7. I compared it to my buddies short barrel, and the Daniel defense biggest bonus was that it wasn’t as stinky. It wasn’t something that was mentioned in this video but gas fumes released from the short barrel along with a much louder noise was just obnoxious to shoot. The 16 inch D7 is an absolute pleasure to be around. The short barrel is like hanging out with that loud obnoxious friend who drinks way too much at the bar.
10.3 mk18 from DD is the GOAT 🐐. Nothing looks better. Nothing feels better. End of the day it’s about what the shooter wants. 11.5” gave the UA-camrs something different to push after 10yrs of talking the mk18 up. Gotta give it to manufacturers in finding a way to it something on the market ppl would find a excuse to buy & now the 16” is heavily being pushed by ppl who have a million SBR but will say they don’t want to go through the hassle of the paperwork when really it’s about getting free gear/weapons or great deals. I say pick a length & go have fun. Environment you live in should determine what length you pick. If your a range only guy 10.3-16” will all be more than the right tool.
This video was a perfect follow up to this discussion with my son. Thank you for hitting exactly what we could only talk about with an application of ammo to paper.
I would have loved to see an 18" and 20" in this comparison as well.
Not from these posers..
@@DimitrosSJ These "posers" can easily outshoot you. If you think otherwise, put your money where your mouth is.
I was also disappointed to see lack of >16" bbl lengths.
@@DimitrosSJ Wdym? Mike has worked in the Spec OPS community for years. That's about as legit as you can get. Sure, he does a lot of silly drills/montages and likes to pepper his videos with Gen Z memes, but the meat of the things he says once you get past the superfluous is sound.
That he was able to borrow this many uppers from an upscale brand is already a tall order. Novesque only makes up to 18" so since they don't make 20" Mike probably thought it would ruin the barrel quality consistency aspect of this video if he got a 20" from another make. If he did get Novesque's 18", he would still get comments about the 20" and rightfully so since it wouldn't be right to have 18" but not 20" given the former is even more niche.
Those aren't cool guy lengths they don't exist to these guys
In general:
10.3" - No real application over 11.5" outside of clone builds. The vast majority of the time 11.5" is the better choice.
11.5" - Negligible length increase over 10.3" that is especially disproportionate to the benefits in dwell time and velocity. The shortest length practical for most cases.
12.5" - The shortest length that can be commonly found with a mid-length gas system, although dwell time is such that it's ideally used with a suppressor.
13.7" - The shortest length that can typically be used with a pinned and welded muzzle device to bring it up to 16". Also is less ammo sensitive than 12.5" mid-length gas barrels, especially when unsuppressed.
14.5" - The most common barrel length for pin and welds before the advent of longer muzzle devices. Popular with GWOT-era clones. Makes mini / K suppressors more tolerable.
16" - The shortest non-NFA length that can be legally used without a permanently attached muzzle device.
18" - The shortest length that can be commonly found with a rifle-length gas system and the benefits to parts longevity and recoil associated with it.
20" - Extends reach of bayonet
You forgot the vibe-enhancing effects of 20" barrels.
Vibes may not win a whole lot of engagements but firearms are shot at far more by cameras than by other rifles these days. Just think of all the flex pics you would take if you had an M16 with an M203 underbarrel or a transferable 3-Position fun hose.
@@wraithwyvern528 To be fair, select-fire and a launcher are flexes regardless of barrel length haha.
20" barrels not only enhance vibes, but check them as well. At least with certain ammo against some steel armor
10 inches still hit 3k out the barrel with 55gr. Cool story though, bro.
@@sanctuarypest2212 ok
@@sanctuarypest2212lol 55gr
Superb information to have. Thank you for doing what y’all do.
Wow, great video with incredibly useful information. My primary home defense rifle is my own build with a 14.5 YHM barrel with pinned/welded flash hider. After watching this I'm seriously considering doing a 10.3 build just because. Thanks for all you're doing. I just discovered your channel this week and have watched several videos. Lots more to go 😂
It’d be great to see 18” and 20” barrels too as well as 77 and 62 gr bullet weights as a comparison to the 55’s.
It starts to plateau, you still get small gains all the way to 22" just gets smaller and smaller while the weight gets further and further out there.
@@amn1308no 20 inch is the maximum actually beyond that it’s pointless for .223/5.56
@@amn1308the 5.56 round was designed to be shot out of a 20 inch barrel. So yes, there should be differences from 16” to 20” in terms of velocity
@@vicdiaz5180the M16 was also originally a much slower twist rate so the those 55 were even less stable vs the modern 1:7 twist rate for heavier rounds.
@@matthewconnor5483 correct that slower twist rate was due to the barrel length. A more aggressive twist rate on a 20” would only reduce the performance out of a 20 inch barrel, but the powder out of the 5.56 cartridge stops burning around 19 1/2 inches, which is why many people in this common section are interested to see a comparison that includes the 20” barrel
2 months later? You're dedication to inform us is very nice to see. Thank you, man.
More to come!
@@GarandThumbbig Mike that tattoo making you look like a bad boy we love it
@@1172603not a fan
@@GarandThumb we love it when you come more
@@Christoph-sd3zi Then why? Why are you even commenting on a comment of the video? Have some self awareness.
Much appriciate your video. So full of real, tested info.
A job for every length, a length for every job. What was not mentioned was stretching-out a longer competition barrel, but then losing velocity at distance and then stepping-up to 7.62x51 and my opinion for any practical application other than plinking is everything >300yds. Quality rounds then go from poking holes to producing pink mist. (To clarify we're talking about big game or anything larger than a coyote.)
no test is complete without a 20in barrel to compare to. it's literally the benchmark standard.
30 years ago and for the marines
At that length you need a bayonet lug as well, because why not double as a javelin?
16" is the standard now
@@roberthsieh8639I mean why not
it's the benchmark standard if you're living in 1960s vietnam
If you've ever felt like you needed a really short barrel to compensate for your magnum dong, go ahead and hit that subscribe button.
If you've ever dropped a monster condom so you could talk about your magnum dong, go ahead and hit that subscribe button.
Never forget the USS Liberty and the men who diëd on that day
What about my ROMY Dong?
i’m the other way around
In that case I suppose I better get like a 60in barrel n add a suppressor
Great testing. Appreciate you using barrels from the same batch.
Great informative video. This is the video I’ve been looking for. Thanks
I think a sequel test to this could be in order. It'd be very nice to see ballistic gel testing with both 55gr and 77gr bullets at 100fps intervals to get a real idea of when expansion is going to be happening with any given barrel length
That's what I'd hoped this one would be, to be honest. I also think it would've been nice to see some extremes like 20" and 7.5"
@@eatsshootsandleavestactica8068 @Garand Thumb i'll lend my LWRC PSD 8.5 " to the channel if needed for a PT. 2
Don't forget the 62gr. I use them quite a bit for some game and varmints out of a 24" barreled AR.
@@MarineVet especially green tip, just as an example of why you shouldn't use it lol
It really matters on the twist rate as well, there is a good variation for better twists between 55, 62, and 77.
What about barrel girth? And don't forget the enthusiasm! It really matters in the grand scheme of things, isn't always about length
⌚️ Europa the last battle
⌚ 9-II Mis sing Links
You mean barrel caliber?
Garand scheme of things*
@@nextcaesargaming5469 no. The girth obviously. You don’t want short and skinny. 😂
Phenomenal info brother. Thank you. There’s so much heresy on the internet, it’s nice to see proof and testing done by an unbiased professional so we can all make our own individual decisions.
I’d love to see this same set of tests performed on .308, 7.62x39, and 6.5creed.
Also, why not include the 18 or 20”?
I would also love to see the same. As for the 18 and 20”, I’ve seen a few test on UA-cam and read a few things online (the internet is always right lol), that past 16” the gains aren’t substantial enough to justify including. How accurate is that? Idk but probably more accurate than my aim
@@edwardrizzorhands that probably depends on ammo, 18 and 20 I have seen some tests where they definitely have shown noteable gain.
@@irondragondxd3836 I’d be curious to see those tests after seeing comments of others as well (separate thread). Where can I find em? Not saying you’re wrong at all just trying to learn
@@edwardrizzorhands I’d have to go through and check them out. There’s a lot of chronograph ballistic chart data on reddit and on UA-cam. It’s definitely more ammo dependent though.
I would have loved to see different ammo types explored as well. 55gr vs 62gr vs 77gr, etc. I know it would have made the video about 45 minutes long, but I don't think anyone here would complain about that!
I don't mind longer videos when it comes to stuff like this. I'm kinda getting started on my gun venture, or at least ownership. Been watching firearms videos for years, but only recently got me a rifle and a pistol. Now I gotta put what I've learned into a more practical test on the range.
Kinda like when I went to CDL school for trucking, we learned in the classroom for awhile first. But once we actually got behind the wheel in the course, applying that knowledge is different in a real-world scenario. 8 years later and now it's just second nature lol.
A cut short/sped up video with just graphs of performance comparisons would be GOLDEN
Never forget the USS Liberty and the men who diëd on that day
From Buffman Armor spreadsheet data, the heavier weights perform better with short barrels, but light bullets like 55gr perform well in any barrel, but you can still get a increase in velocity.
His google speadsheet has multiple barrels, calibers, and ammo.
The lack of NFA hassles make the 16" really shine IMO.
Pin and welded 14.5 that has a suppressor ready flash hider also is GTG and popular around my area
@@erikmcdoner4331what is pin and weld?
@@Oliver0200 basically if you weld the flash hider / suppressor mount to the barrel it counts towards the over 16in min. PSA offers a couple 14.5 rifles / uppers with it and it's NFA compliant.
@@erikmcdoner4331 God's work. Thanks!
@@erikmcdoner4331 yeah...but what's really the point? If you're adding a suppressor to a 14.5 and trying to keep it short with that, I see the point in a barrel under 16". But if you're just trying to keep it legal without a can, you're losing all of the velocity you get out of a 16" when you go shorter AND you're losing the maneuverability of a shorter barrel by pinning and welding a muzzle device on a short barrel to make it 16" overall. It seems like pin and welding a muzzle device is a net negative unless you're using a suppressor; and if you're using a suppressor, then you shouldn't really be worried about having an SBR.
I purchased recently a 12.5 ar15 and im very happy with it as a do it all rifle. Trying to get a can soon 😊
I love your videos because they are very informative, usually very funny and you don't show partiality to any brand in particular. The dad advice at the end is truly outstanding. Thank you for what you do.
It would be interesting to see each of these tested on ballistic gel at various distances.
they didnt??
@ulrikerudel6859 daddy doesn't gel test. Ever.
@@Nick-fm9ux*44 magnum dummy head explosion has entered the chat*
And with various bullets.
This is what I was hoping to see…maybe next time
It would be fun to see the difference of extremes of a 20+" barrel vs a super short 7"!
Great video, like that you used barrels from the same manufacturer and prod batch!
Would have loved to see a 18 and 20 in this. I've been running my mk18 now for a few years and love it for the environment I'm in, heavy wood and hills, most of the time I can't see more than 200 meters unless in a valley with a pasture. I am going to pick up a long boi 5.56 next because I have more 5.56 cans than guns at the moment
Whatever cameras and filters Garand Thumb uses are awesome.
16" is my favorite. I think it offers the best compromise between the 20" performance and the 11.5" maneuverability. Perfect middle ground for a general-purpose rifle.
14"-16" is the sweet spot. 10.5-12.5 just lack power for longer ranges or when a target is hiding behind a tree, a car or in a building. Short barrels have no penetration after 150yards.
Just maybe thats why the 16" is the standard.
@@PaulAmericanno it has to do with the nfa.
@@nathanflecke9635 What makes you think the USMC cares about the NFA? M16A4 barrel length is 20 inches
@@nathanflecke9635 military doesnt need to follow the nfa. The military went from a m16 to the m4 w/16in barrel. Special forces went with mission specific barrels lenths but thats not the same conversation.
9:00 a scope longer than the barrel is really all that is needed
Yes🗿
There's no such thing as overkill
The sight of that reminded me a scene from some movie where they decided to throw a huge ass sight on an MP5
Looked it up and it was from the original "Sniper" with Tom Berenger. Apparently it was some sorts of NVG scope.. still weird having that on an mp5.
Love it. Thanks guys.
I love your videos! Thanks so much for doing these! You always have the best apparel gear as well! Recommendation: add affiliate links to the outdoor apparel you guys wear in your videos!
20 inches HBAR with the bayonet lug is pure perfection.
clear rooms like chris kyle
Hbar lmao
Not to forget the increased bullet damage due to the bayonet.
When the bullet leaves the barrel and sees the badass blade on the way out, it will get competitive and try extra hard.
Not to mount the bayonet, of course, as a 20" with HBAR profile can be used as a mace. The bayonet lug is just to mock your enemies by demonstrating that with your 405 bench you don't need a handicap to kill them in melee.
@@mrdankmemesbo1157 watch the Marine guard with a M16A2 in the Bourne Identity. Going up the stairwell in tight quarters. He has the buttstock over the top of his shoulder to shorten its length. Improvise, adapt, overcome.
As someone who has been making barrels for 30 years, and my family for over half a century. I'm loving this. We spent years doing research. But, definitely not with multiple rounds of modern rounds as we are getting out of the business. This was a fun episode to watch for sure. Just glad we had great results in comparison. Took a ton of research though.
How have you been doing this for years but never done such a simple test
@@astolt12 I usually make things to the customers specs. Their development team usually does the testing. We get to torture test products. Which is always a ton of fun. But, we are usually going by already existing lengths. So, there is no need to do this kind of thing.
@@davidblanck4131 So, when a customer asks for advice about which length to pick, what's your answer? "I don't know. We never tested that."
@@johndaniels1197 No lol. They usually say "I would like 200 sten MK2 barrels, 200 sten MK3, 100 Garand barrels, 150 full auto uzi barrels of various lengths" etc. We make bulk parts to the customers spec. We are not developing 1 off parts. Sure, we have made just about every length AR barrel in wildly different calibers. But, the customer typically knows what they want before they order it. The only thing that we developed was some AR pistol that we don't make any more. As you may know. 7.5 inch .556 isn't exactly powder efficient. We usually do functional testing only.
@@davidblanck4131what's the name of the company your family runs?
Also why are you getting out of the business?
What are the downsides to industrial grade electrochemical machined barrels? I'm curious as to why more companies are not using that method as there are legitimate machines manufactured for it and it's a process that has zero tool wear and it is also a 100% burr free process yet as far as I know no major companies are using this method.
I've learned more from you and your friends and the recommend research givin is good to build on. Thank you
They’re all good. The positive to the 13.7 is, it’s just long enough to be able to pin and weld a muzzle device on that makes it a legal 16 inches. It’s the perfect middle ground barrel for that application. Beyond that, the other length barrels are better suited for there specific purposes. I own a 16, 13.7, and a 10.5. I kind of want an 18, a 20, and either a 11.5 or 12.5 though too. Just for the heck of it. I like them all. Build your collection big and get good with all of them! Amen! Good video, keep up the good work! Thanks
Love the dad advice at the end. In college, a friend told me something his dad told him along the same lines of what you said: “Don’t talk about it, be about it”. I’ve always carried that with me and glad to see it being spread to the masses.
Would have loved to see an 18 and 20-inch barrel tested also!
@@moldetaco2281 i know a dude with a 20" barrel with the suppressor and the stock extended it's almost as long as he is lol, but it sounds like a laser gun so that cool.
Nëver forget the USS Liberty and the men who died on that day
I have an 18" BCM upper, my 55gr reloads clock in around 3150-3200fps.. they are loaded fairly hot..
@@moldetaco2281 I've heard of quite a bit of variance in those tests. Some tests show only marginal increases in velocity from 16" to 18" and 20", but other tests show larger increases. In the tests with the larger increases (125fps muzzle velocity faster out of a 20" compared to a 16"), it can extend the reliable tumble ranges of M193 upwards of 25yds (18") to 50yds (20") beyond what a 16" barrel provides, which can make quite a bit of difference in combat settings.
@@eamonnholland5343 been my experience with quality ammo that velocity gains of 50-75fps per inch is the norm.. anything outside of that is the exception and not the rule..
Appreciate your videos. Please continue with the evasion/tactics videos.
This is probably one of the most informative videos that you’ve put out (for me). With having the ability to get as accurate of data as possible gives great kudos to the GT teams wealth of contact, knowledge and experience! Your videos are out together very well and aren’t longer than they need to be while also entertaining. Very understandable why GT is the “best” channel on YT. Please keep it up and thank you.
Put*
I ran a 20 inch barrel in the infantry and I can't say I ever found it too long. But I wasn't doing secret squirrel stuff either
You learn to work with what you have. I ran with an A2 also. I knew enough about ballistics that I hated the M4 when it was issued.
Ditto. My only complaints were the govt. profile barrel (heavy on the wrong end because of a flawed study on damage on the M16A1) and rarely having had optics for it (minimal numbers of PVS-4 in the unit). Didn't get to use the M4 but I'm pretty sure it would have worked great for everything we did too.
I ran the M16A2 stateside, and the M16A4 with irons and the M4 with optics overseas. I liked the M16A4 and the M4 both. Would loved to have done qual with an M16A4 and an optic. But I could hit 500m with the M4 easy. never got a chance to shoot further, but confident I could have hit further still without much trouble.
There's the answer right there! If you had been I'm sure you'd have a LOT more to say.
In Plaster's non fiction book about MAC V SOG he wrote the SF teams liked the CAR15 5.56mm. That had a standard 16" barrel. I read too, the 5.56x45mm works best with 16" barrels to burn powder, get proper gas-rifle barrel spin.
The deciding factor for me is this: as long as my barrel length allows the projectile I’m using to perform as designed and intended, I’m cool with it. Usually that means 16” and up. Usually, anything below, and you won’t get the dynamic wound channel or permanent wound cavity because at lower velocities, the round isn’t traveling fast enough to suck air into the channel behind it. You can see this amazingly well when shooting ballistic gel. The projectile, when traveling at adequate velocity, will suck air into the wound channel it causes, filling the space, and causing a small explosion inside of the wound channel when the channel rapidly closes, combusting the oxygen inside of the channel. This is a major, significant loss of performance and is the main criteria I employ when deciding barrel length. If it won’t cause that explosion in the cavity, I won’t use it.
Would’ve been cool to perform these tests on ballistic gel and use the data to determine at what length and velocity you lose or gain that explosion in the wound cavity.
Yeah, I see no need to go shorter than 16'' unless you are running suppressed. I prefer 20'' barrel with the stock collapsed ALL the way with a good sling and optic (A 3-9x40 or 3-12x44 scope goes on all my AR rifles with 45 degree canted iron sights, I know I'm weird). The 20'' barrel just feels right in my hands and the weight balances right in front of the magwell. I keep the stocks collapsed all the way on all of my rifles so I can put my elbow into my ribcage with the support arm and get perfectly steady before taking a freestanding shot. It's done me well for for feral hogs using 5.56 62g M855. Those things sure do leave a NASTY wound cavity if you hit bone on the way in. Don't let anyone tell you "They'll just ice-pick through and it will run off and die." Those are the people that use 'neutered' (short) barrels and are terrible at shot placement.
2 to the chest 1 to the head gonna make you go to sleep regardless of low velocity 🤣
@@beatsbyry one to the head is a sure way to end any threat. Those two to the chest though, velocity could mean the difference between being stopped by a vest or plate and penetrating through like butter.
I’d like to see this test with a 18”, 20” and 24”
Exactly! I use a 24" for varmints.
@@drshoe8744 i saw it as an option on Aero’s website and I’ve been curious about it since
I suspect that when facing 30-50 Feral and Invasive Texas Hogs 98% of people are gonna want that 20"-24"~ rifle ***AND*** Bayonet Lug.
Why even risk *Not* having Peak Proformance when ones life is on the line?
@@TheBuster0926 pretty much why my two primary AR’s are both 20’s (one A2 and one A4).
@@callsigncoyote7931 I respect and admire your choice.
I as a young one only had money for a decent SKS at 400$.
I believe in Teensy-Stock BIG Barrel supremacy. People need to go back to knowing how to use Slings.
Would be great to see gel tests out to distance with different lengths and especially using heavier grains. Also differences in using the 55gr vs heavier grains in terms of terminal performance and velocity sensitivity.
Never forget the USS Liberty and the men who diëd on that day
@@budget.88remembrance is useless if you do not train to avenge them
20" . In 5.56, 55 grain, velocity is king. Fragmentation at longer distances and better armor penetration.
I would've also liked to see how shooting suppressed effects velocity, particularly 10.3 since it is often used in that configuration.
This is what I was hoping to see in this video.
Shoutout for Savior. I have their urban warfare bag and specialist range bag. Amazing products!
The ejection pattern on all barrel lengths was very good. Since you used the same lower for all the tests, could you speak to the buffer weight you typically use and do you change buffers when running suppressed or do you have adjustable gas blocks. Maybe you address all that in another video that I have not spotted, but I do like how you did this testing. Excellent comparison.
Seeing the 20” M16 would’ve been a great addition to the lineup.
Ps. I’m digging the Tattoo Garand Thumb!
Years ago AR15 magazine did a barrel length velocity test using 5.56. They used the same barrel cutting an inch off and recrowning for each test. Don't remember the exact results, but do remember that around the 20 inch mark was the best velocity. All the powder was burnt in that 20" and anything over 20 lost velocity due to not enough powder and the friction of the extra barrel. Of course these results would change when using different calibers with larger powder capacity.
556 was intended for 20inch if im not mistaken
Thank you for the excellent contrast in you analysis. Great philosophy: Be a doer.
Excellent video as usual 👍🏼
This is why i love the AR platform, i can have dozens of uppers all done up to match the barrel length, while only needing a couple nice lowers.
The expanding crew of the GT Ranch is starting to give Jacques Cousteau/Steve Zissou vibes. It won't be long before GT and Co. have retrofitted a giant soviet helicopter to house an armory, a shop, sleeping quarters, and a galley and they just fly around the world having guntoober adventures.
I'm here for it.
Maybe buy an old oil rig, start building barracks on it. Make their own video platform where they decide what goes. Idk, they could call it something like, "GunTubere Sans Frontières" or something.
@@NvwaAqoKy2kgthat’s gonna make a great episode of “Love+Death+Robots”.
Do the interns get a Glock
@@bobmatthew5012 No, they share one. They do get a Garand_Thumb branded Adidas, tho
That intro/extro was awesome 😂 thanks for the video
I have seen many,good demonstrations on barrel length, this is one of the best.
I think the biggest benefit of the 13.7 is legal convenience. It's pretty much the shortest barrel length you can go with a pin and weld without dipping into SBR territory. Sure, you can pin and weld a 12.5, but there's only a handful of muzzle devices you can use, and most of them are XM177 style flash hiders. It's really more valuable now with the legal fuckery surrounding pistol braces.
The time for giving a shit what your handlers say has loooong passed
@@smolsnek3835 Amen. Also I'd argue the shorter length possesses nuanced performance benefits outside of a range environment which you'd prioritize over sheer **maximum** ballistic performance. Swings, carrying, fine-control, concealment, etc. are some such benefits.
My thoughts exactly.
@@smolsnek3835so what are you gonna do, aside from make edgy comments on YT 😂
@@regulator18E uhhh...civil disobedience. Break the law.
10.3 barrel with a 6-36 scope should be the new standard
😂
with an offset red dot
@@christiantaylor2991 and offset sights.
@@HedgeMaster26on either side
Saw a S&W Model 36 with a 4X scope once. It was a temporary joke but still.....
I always like watching your videos when I’m sad or depressed. Reminds me of just hanging out with the boys.
I’ve used and owned them all. At the end of the day I prefer the 16” but 14.5” is nice also.
Not a single person with a stamp would ever say 16" is better, come on.
The 16" hasn't been forgotten; it's just the part of the cycle where the focus is 14.5.
Just like optic height started with the top of the carry handle then went to super low and is now back at the top of carry handle height. Just like we went from carrying ammo/gear on our waist with ALICE to carrying it on our torso with MOLLIE and now back to "battle belts" we'll progress back to 20" barrels and then back to 16" at some point in the future.
In a word, fads.
This. This comment right here. Same shit in optics. ACOGs are the best -> LPVOs are the best, ACOGs suck -> High power and canted dot -> ACOGs are best -> on and on and on and on
@@harmstrongg MPVO+piggy backed RDS gang. If only the market actually had new lightweight MPVO production, and Leupold still sold the MK6 3-18 on the civilian market. . .
Not to mention the constant flirtation with 7 mm-- up or down, but nearly always one side or the other.
A lot of it has to do with what conflicts the US is currently involved in and what gear excels in that area. Guys see pics of team dudes using stuff and move towards that. To that same end the areas and types if shooting that you youtubers do trickles down to shooters.
13.9 isnt there for ballistics, its there to get you to a 16 inch barrel length when pinned.
Its the shortest you can go without needing a brace or a stamp.
I found it odd he didn't mention that aspect. The whole reason for the odd 13.9 is the p/w length. I've never felt the need to p/w anything less than 14.5 but I get it. I have a ballistic advantage 14.5 urgi clone-ish upper and it's so accurate with the cheap aac 77gn stuff that I stopped even considering a 13.whatever.
For most people I’m sure that’s true, I run my 13.9 as an SBR, suppressed, I wanted more velocity than my 11.5” but not as long as my 16” with a suppressor, I also wanted to run a mid length gas system. Overall it’s probably the smoothest shooting rifle I have, I also had the opportunity to put a former employers M16 lower under the upper and it was sewing machine smooth.
@@Jake-ug2mfyup, exactly - I built my 13.9 because the combination of that barrel length with mid length gas lends itself to extremely smooth operation.
Why not just get a 16 inch at that point and get the needle velocity. Your losing velocity on a velocity dependent cartridge just to get the same length barrel at the end of the day
Great informative video!! Thank you!
Mike and the team always clutching with the content
Seems like if you’re unsuppressed it’s hard to beat 16”. Good performance for the caliber and still decently handy. Plus no extra hoops to jump through for SBR now that the brace status is in question.
14.5 pin and weld is the same legal status as 16 as far as the Federales are concerned.. Some states like NY andr NJ expressly ban p&w at the state level but it's a small minority.
Orrrrr, non compliance because it’s unconstitutional
@@mikeborrelli193pin and weld isn't illegal in NY and probably isn't in NJ
@@0ffcamberxj It sure as shit is illegal in NY.. No threaded barrels and no muzzle devices wether P&W or not. If you live there better read the specifics about AR barrels and what is and is not allowed..
@@mikeborrelli193if you have a fixed mag you can do whatever you want, but that's dumb.
However, there are multiple ways to keep a detachable mag (CA style) that the NYSP won't issue a ruling on and you can have whatever scary features you want.
It's surely not ideal, but we're trying.
13.7" also has the added plus of being the shortest length you can pin and weld most muzzles and still be 16" and not need a stamp.
Came here to say the same that's kind of the point of that length from what I've read
Very good point. It also has a weight reduction. Built one for my daughter trying to shave weight on the muzzle end. Get the right muzzle device pinned and reducing those ounces helps.
At that point, just pin and weld a 14.5 inch since they'll both end up at the same OAL, but you'll get more velocity.
@heyhayhay247 that's only if you want a birdcage
if you have to pin and weld to get to 16in, why not just got to 16in and get the additional velocity while you're at it for the same length? makes no sense.
“You aren’t what you wanna be, you are what you are”
Be a doer!
Loved the vid, very informational thanks again Garand!
You should do some standardized ballistic penetration tests on gel, cinder blocks, wood etc between different barrel lengths.
Their sound recording of rifle fire is so clean. Probably the best on UA-cam.
100%. they have the sound dialed in real nice
This was great, I'd love to see a part 2 where you expand the dataset. Do the 5.56 rattler like you showed in the thumbnail and add an 18 and a 20 for the long bois. Really show where the fall off in the bell curve is on either side.
go over 26 as well
Just wanna say brother you have one of the best tactical knowledge channels on here , literally go over everything i look at , i run a 10.5 but im not running it often due to ammo cost and me being a broke vet haha , GOOD CHANNEL GARAND
Love the educational content; would've loved to see an 18" on here as I run both a 16" and 18" but I'm guessing based on the diminishing returns we saw in this test that it wouldn't make that much difference at less than 500yds, which is the only reason I even own an 18" in the first place of course.
MDT SPORTING GOODS channel made a great video on this. They made a 6' barrel, fired it, collected the data, cut it down, then repeated to process. It was very interesting to see the results charted.
I'll be checking that out. Thanks.
Damn
A six foot barrel??
@@sfdclay they are serious into science man
Nëver forget the USS Liberty and the men who died on that day
I love the physics of high speed projectiles, its facinating that all of those bullets are dropping at the exact same speed as one you drop from your hand
There’s no doubt for best performance: velocity and iron sight MOA value, it’s s 20 inch barrel. And that’s the one which properly supports the Mk262 round, which is ideal for midrange events. The factor to be most appreciated is when shooting Mk262 the shooter will get an MOA wind constant of 10 at 600 yards vs an MOA constant of about 7 from a 14.5 inch barrel. This essentially means better hits at distance in winds which cannot be accurately appraised, like 1-3 mph winds that are hard to observe. Creds: Military Rifle Instructor assisting the USAMU deliver SDM, TTT, and SAFS Training. Bottom-line is if hitting a distant (midrange) target is important then so is a 20 inch barrel. No interest in midrange, then any barrel length or just carry a pistol, it does not matter if you are a fantasy fighter. On the other hand if you are a hunter or someone pursuing marksmanship development the benefits of the 20 inch barrel are too important to be negated. One more thing, since the 20 inch barreled Rifle will get VLD bullets to the 1000 yard line , shooters who have an interest in becoming champion marksmen can take that rifle to the long line and really learn a lot about shooting since it takes more knowledge and skill to get good hits at long range with a Service Rifle than other platforms. In other words, if you learn how to get great scores at long range with an AR-15A2 or A4 you will undoubtedly shoot to High Master Classification with any other platform/caliber long range rifle out there.
Serious question: if Mk262 works best in a 20” 1:7 barrel, why did NSWC-Crane select the 18” Douglas 1:7 stainless barrel for the infamous Mk12 SPR? It wasn’t any lighter, it didn’t provide more velocity, but I’m guessing current contracts prevented them from just taking what they had and improving upon it? I’m building an 18” SPR with a 1:6 stainless from Green Mountain in NH. Have a bunch of 77gr 5.56 lined up to see which one it likes best - real Black Hills Mk262 and their TMK as well, the IMI “Razor Core”, some of the new AAC stuff, and a few other flavors.
Excellent and very informative video.
I'd love to see this on multiple calibers.. I’d love to have seen a 20” barrel against the 16”….
It's basically 2900-3k up to 3100-3300, 20" is the best length for velocity before it gets way way too long.
It's a higher velocity but longer.
One thing I think people underestimate the importance of when considering barrel length/suppressor is overall weapon balance/weight, & if it will fit with your particular body type. I don’t purely just go off velocity alone.
precisely what we mention in the video
Im impressed with your accuracy at 300 yards….excellent young man!!!!
Great review 🎉
Okay so i had a thought, since you got the hook up with ballistic dummy labs id love to see what 556 really does at range. The argument of it has no energy at range thatd be a great way to test that. And i havnt seen that anywhere else.
@budget.88 well that and there was 5th group guys training out to 600 meters with 14.5 block 2 so the shots can be made it would just be really cool to see what it actually does
I second this. Im curious at what range/velocity do different 5.56 loads stop getting that nice fragmenting effect? Would different style 5.56 ammo offer better fragmentation at long range/lower velocities, such as soft point or that Liberty Civil Defense ammo?
This.
Agreed
Bad guys have been dropped beyond 500m, so that's good enough for me.
14.5 is the perfect balance. But a good ol' 20" M16 clone just gets me hard
A dissipator is where its at
@@DasGoodSoup a dissipator is a 16'' barrel with a fsb positioned at rifle length but has a gas block at the carbine position.
18" is another great point of compromise since you get a full length gas system.
@@TyranniRedI had only ever shot 16’s and when I put together my 20 it should felt different with the full length gas system
I know that one of the main things about going with a 10.3 is to use as a dedicated supressor host. I'd be interested in seeing the relative performance of a suppressed 10.3 against the 16, since typically the overall barrel length with the supressor brings it to around 16in.
The 10.5 w/can wins in my book vs a similar length unsuppressed set up, but that is 2 tax stamps (or not, I ain't gonna say anything) so for 99% of people its not worth it.
I think like if you’re going with a short barrel as a dedicated suppressor host you might as well go with 300blk
There isn’t a huge difference in ammo cost anymore, maybe 10-15 cents a round for supers.
Your comment at the end hit me, thank you I needed to hear that
Another good point on the 13.7 is its pretty much the shortest you can pin and weld without a goofy long muzzle device to make legal 16.
recently did a 14.5" build and its become my favorite. none of the pistol or sbr stuff to worry about, and just feels better than a 16".
I think its the safest choice because I have the suspicion that anything below 14 inch would be too slow to retain reliably tumbling and yawing in the targets tissues and also might be too slow for penetration of body armor
@@matthiwi6901 Depends what rounds you are firing and what ranges you want them to be effective. Even a 10.5" will fire M193 at speeds that guarantee fragmentation and tumbling at short distances, extra barrel length just extends how far the rounds stay in the frag range. 77gr's perform well at way less velocity than M193. M855 just sucks.
it's only not an SBR or pistol if you have a permanent feature extending the barrel length the 16in. if you have to have 16in anyways, might as well may it useful length.
@@SoloRenegade Thankfully flash hiders and suppressor mounts count as useful length too.
@@SoloRenegade right.. its called a 14.5" pin and weld. its quite useful. and unless one is running no muzzle device on a 16" barrel, which no one does, then the 14.5 is shorter overall by at least an inch or so depending on the muzzle device.
video so good so informative you gained a subscriber!
Thank you Sir for your info and your advice
Best dad advice you’ve ever done in my opinion. It just spoke to me. Even good people get stuck talking about doing rather than actually doing. Good thing to be a doer for sure. 👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸
Loved this, would be cool to see velocity changes with suppressors vs. no suppressors.
It’s really not all that dramatic, like 60fps at most. I’ve only ever noticed it with some hand loaded subs that I was shooting at a range at a significantly higher elevation than my normal one where it just pushed them supersonic.
Nice video, other than now I feel like my choice weren’t knowledgeable enough.
But yes, the key factor is what does it do when it reaches the target. A gel test would be lovely as a follow up/part two.
Next you should do twist rate on same length barrels, ive heard army concluded that 1:9 was actually the best for fmj but they took 1:7, bc the m855A1 liked it better. Love these style videos. You guys rock don't change doc
In my opinion 1:8 is the best civilian twist rate it spins every bullet weight reliably.
I’d love to see different barrel materials/coatings compared against each other. Nitride, cold hammer forged, stainless steel, etc.
Honestly, when it comes to accuracy, quality control matters more than materials. Durability is where material matters more. But unless you're dumping 5k rounds a year in training through one gun, you don't really have to worry about that.
Nobody will ever be able to convince me (all else being equal) that there is a superior system to chrome lined cold hammer forging.
CL & CHF should be the standard. Reduce the need for replacement barrels, less material consumed.
@@TheDiameterCut stainless is fundamentally more accurate 99% of the time. Barrel life is easily half.
Better is relative.
@TheCircumference it depends on what you're going for. Barrel life is CHF & CL. But you won't even need to think about that if you shoot a few hundred rounds a year. A button rifled stainless barrel with a high degree of QC will be much more accurate, but won't last as long.
I have found that if you're going to run a suppressor at all over 50% of the time, a 12.3-13.9 with a total rifle weight loaded, suppressed, optic, etc. as close to 9lbs as I can get is where I feel the best. The handguards especially in mid-length are long enough not to feel cramped and to be able to have a lot of mounting options, while maintaining decent velocity from 0-300 yards, which is all I'd ever shoot where I live. If you think about actually using a rifle in SHTF or WROL where you're carrying a rifle everywhere, getting in and out of vehicles, home defense, and clearing buildings, etc. length and weight become massively important.
WROL?
@@JohnnyReb-tr2fs Without rule of law.