Trying to Be “The Good Kid” in My Mormon Family - JoCee Porter | Ep. 1775
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- We continue delving into the challenges faced by sisters JoCee and Rylee Porter, daughters of an Ensign Peak Executive, the controversial Mormon investment company. JoCee’s story takes center-stage in this episode as she recalls feeling the need to be her family’s “Nephi”, (golden child) as both a reaction to the turmoil caused by Rylee’s perceived rebelliousness and an intense desire to feel her father’s love and attention. However, the more she achieves, the more she feels the constriction of Mormon gender roles. JoCee describes her journey into feminism, self-determination, self-discovery, and reconciliation with her sister Rylee just as the whistleblower leaks about Ensign Peak came to light.
Rylee's Insta: / ryleecoyotee
Rylee's Facebook: ryleeporter92
JoCee's Insta: / jocee.holladay
Too Pretty to Code Ugly: codepretty.tech/
Episode Show Notes: www.mormonstories.org/podcast...
00:00:00 Intro & Recap
00:04:15 JoCee’s story begins. Feeling like “Nephi.”
00:14:00 How you are treated having a non-Mormon boyfriend
00:22:00 Processing gender roles as a Mormon young woman
00:26:30 How Rylee’s experiences shaped JoCee’s life
00:34:00 What she considered her “dark years” as a Mormon young woman
00:46:00 A Mormon woman’s value is society is reproductive and as a support of men
00:52:30 Dealing with sexual guilt and shame as a sexually active believing Mormon youth. Moving from “Nephi” to “Alma the Younger”
00:59:00 I never considered leaving. This is true. The temple will save me.
01:06:00 Applying to and attending the University of Utah.
01:21:00 When JoCee heard from her dad that Rylee had resigned from the church
01:26:30 JoCee exploring the finance and Ensign Peak world
01:32:00 Being a woman in tech starts her feminist awakening
01:54:00 Religion over family again
02:06:15 Marrying husband (Jaden) - An Ensign Peak wedding
02:14:15 Why don’t you fight for me dad?
02:37:00 Rylee and JoCee’s reconciliation with each other
02:40:30 Their relationship with their parents today.
___________________
At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.
Our overall mission is to:
1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology
2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis
3. Promote healing, growth, and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high-demand religions
🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today
One-time or recurring donations: donorbox.org/mormon-stories?d...
Patreon: / mormonstories
Our Platforms:
🌐Mormon Stories Blog: www.mormonstories.org/episodes
🎙️Patreon: / mormonstories
✳️Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7d...
🍎Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
🖼️Instagram: / mormstories
📱TikTok: / mormonstoriespodcast
🎮Discord: / discord
Contact us:
📧 MormonStories@gmail.com
📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117
#MormonStories #Mormon #lds
I love when Margi weighs in. It’s always so heartfelt and loving and strong. 💜
I agree. Margi adds so much. She is, by far, John's best co-host!
I was so excited when I learned Margi was joining on our episode! She is amazing! ❤️
She’s awesome
@@joceeporter4269thank you so much for sharing your story. You are amazing! ❤
Margi is the GOAT
As a parent and grandparent I can tell you that I often called one kid the other kid's name and now i sometimes call my grandchilldren by my chilcren's names so it's not that you care for one more than the other.....it's just being a parent. :)
I agree with this 100%
Agreed...I even throw in the dog's name! Just happens by accident.
I do the same thing, and I also called my grandson Blue which is my cat’s name!!!
Listening to Rylee and JoCee has been SO validating in so many ways. Two of my favourite episodes so far.
You MADE MY DAY. Thank you for listening
Thank you so much for this . Beautiful girls and beautiful stories. The hard conversations are the ones everyone should be having. I admire you both so much and my heart hurts for you but also celebrates who you are. . I resonate so much with so many of the emotions and I just love you both. Such amazing, strong, beautiful women. Thank you Mormon Stories for having them on.
I was a North Ogden transplant from Colorado when I was thirteen. I identify with the culture shock and the toxicity of the social and religious norms of the city. I graduated from Weber High and attended Weber State during the time your dad was there. Thank you for sharing your tender stories. Very best wishes to you both.
Two very wise & well spoken young women. Love listening to Margi’s validating compassion!
Margi’s presence elevates the entire episode! Like every episode she’s on.
When I saw her on the day of our interview, I was ecstatic! I’ve always appreciated how incredibly perceptive she is
I am one of the never a Mormon listeners for the last year. I’m a lesbian growing up in a fundamentalist Christian home. I love(d) my parents, with a particular attachment to my dad similar to JoCee. I relate to both these sisters as I was both the black sheep and the child that got the most positive attention from my dad. I am so impressed by these women as at 60 I have stifled my voice out of fear to upset the family system more than I already have. I’ve lived out and proud, and my parents did the best they could to support me, but their belief system totally affected our family system. I have not challenged their belief system and I long to be as forthright as these two. Way to go Rylee and JoCee.
I'm loving the conversation, thank you ALL! Just a quick update about Cache Valley, we're getting more exmos every day! :)
I can't wait to move back to Cache Valley!
I was just there and I couldn’t tell. But I’m there pretty frequently so I’m excited to see the shift.
I am feeling the stories of these ladies so much. I am an oldest child and my parents were not horrible people however I was a "black sheep" and have so much trauma from how they raised me and from the church and I have felt so conflicted for years that they love and support and attend an organization that hurt me so much and hurt me through them as well and this organization continues to hurt people I love and they continue to choose the church over me. That pain is hard. I sometimes think it would be easy to cut them out if they were horrible but they were somewhere in the middle
I'm in the same situation
@@leahflower9924 I'm sorry it's a weird situation🤷
I cannot emphasize enough how validating and healing this channel is to someone that is also transitioning out of the church omg. Thank you for your story JoCee. I heard every word.
I absolutely loved hearing Margi’s heart for her children. I can relate. We left a Pentecostal Cult when our children were young. My husband and I were both raised in that group. We had NO idea how to raise our girls without the church’s rules. I made mistakes and it was a Rocky road. But there was loads of love and the family is intact. We are celebrating 50 years this year. Y’all are doing a good work here. Thank you!
My mom graduated from BYU with a math degree in 1970ish. I think they had 1 other student graduating with that degree. So they had to have them walk with the engineering students. So that is how she got her degree. She used it to teach math at school.
What else was she going to do with it. She mentioned how that was her only option.
But she amazes me! We can be in a parking lot and she can figure out if they angled the parking stalls a certain angle then they could add X amount more slots.
She amazes me and I wish she would have had a chance to do more than teach with it. I wish she had more doors open.
So thank you JoCee for all that you are doing for women everywhere! ❤
Why does any woman want 'priesthood, or priestesthood' in such a misogynistic organization?
If so much is wrong, or built on lies, what is so difficult about saying, "This is nuts, walk away, shut the door, drink coffee, etc.
@@192837lr When you are born and raised in it and live in Utah so everyone you go to school is all taught the same thing you don’t know it’s nuts and to walk away. It takes years of putting things on your shelf. Or maybe there was one moment that defined it all for you. But unraveling everything is hard. Let’s say that you know your family one way and then when you are 40 or whatever age, you find out that everything about your family was a lie. That picture, that thing you thought was solid and true was nothing but a lie. How do you just walk to the coffee shop and say “my entire life is a complete lie” and just go on like nothing happened.
Or with this episode and the other one about these sisters. Take the financial part of the church. Since you were born you were told that 10% of all the money you gave the “company” was used for good. Its used to help people in need, create all this clean water for people and do nothing but good. Then you find out because of a whistleblower that the 10% that you decided to give and was told to give and encouraged to and you couldn’t do certain things unless you did give 10% of everything you earned was actually going back to “the company” and used to create an investment account worth hundreds of billions. It’s not used to help people. And if you needed help you thought that you would get it. But you have to answer questions the way they want you to. And even then you have lots of other hoops to jump through to get even a tiny bit of help. You find out where the money actually went and it was a big lie. And your entire family was all doing it. They all believe in it. They contribute their 10% faithfully. So if you walk away, A-you aren’t getting any money back so you just have to deal with that. B-when you walk away your family is still giving to this company thinking they will get their return. They will be helped if needed, they choose to pay 10% over buying food. But you know the truth. So if you try to correct them they will walk away. If you bring it up, they walk away. They stop talking to you, they don’t know how to have other conversations because the only thing that you had in common was this fundamental belief in “the company”. So they cut you off in every way. Are you going to just walk away from your family and go get a cup of coffee? You just lost your family. You just lost your community. You lost friends.
I’m sorry this is such a long post. I don’t know if I could have said it better. It’s hard to explain. There are other episodes where John talks about what happens with families when you walk away from the church. I could write more but I’m sure you are tired of me already. But I’ve lost a lot. I had to be prepared but as prepared as I thought I was. I wasn’t. There is no prep for this.
Again sorry for the long response. It’s a lot to deal with. It’s hard to explain.
Hi John and Margi
What a beautiful and high quality introductory video
to your channel.
Thank you for all that you do. It positively affects so
many of us around the world.
💕🌎💕
Thanks Katie!!!
Fellow North Ogden resident and Weber High School graduate here. You’re a badass JoCee!! I have always admired you. Also have enjoyed backing you up and adding my voice to your comments on ignorant and misogynistic Facebook posts from certain people we both went to school with as well. 👀 You know who I’m talking about. 😂😂 I am so enjoying this. Keep sharing!!! Your story is important!
Always love your support and thoughtful comments in those Facebook fights😂❤️
I just keep coming back to how many beautiful souls have been touched by Mormonism. There’s a lot of rot, but my god, there’s so much good in all of you. Any religion who doesn’t accept you and cherish you, these beautiful hearts and minds, is not a belief system worthy of anything ❤❤❤❤
JoCee I’m honestly so sorry for your high school experience🥺And please know, as the older sister in my family, watching Rylee’s face as you were recounting your story broke my heart💔💔💔she would’ve burned the entire town down for you as I would do for my lil sister🥰🥰I also hate that the church attempted to break y’all’s bonds and I’m so happy to see that wasn’t successful.
As a parent, you do learn from your mistakes. If you don’t handle something very well with one child, you’re not going to do the same thing with the next one. I feel like my last two kids have a different mother than my first two kids had. My middle child had a different mother as well. I was always their mother, just learning and growing and doing the best I could. I had my first child when I was 19.
I love that parents can grow and change. It's amazing!
Maybe people should read the books and observe parenting BEFORE they have kids. I was the oldest kid and would have great parents but would have benefitted from them exploring more life ideas then what they were given from religion and literature
From one Laman to another ... sending you some love. -- Also .. how have others gotten over the self-doubting, self-loathing, and questioning one's lovability and self-worth issue? I'm 30 years out of the church & all that Mormon guilt still haunts my very single life. Scrupulosity .. best descriptive word ever .. that I was today year's old when I first heard it. SSOOO many tears in this episode, too. Thank you all for your transparency, honestly, and vulnerability.
I am a parent who has done my best to raise my son to be a strong independent individual and have always encouraged him to question authority and societal norms . Unfortunately the first person in the position of authority he torn apart was myself,. I had him at 16 through an arranged/ forced marriage, became a single mother/ immigrant at 19, hyper focused on his wellbeing, development and education, trying to be a good role model by giving myself an education to the highest levels in the best universities in Europe and getting ourselves out of poverty into prosperity and abundance. It is sad that children of parents who desire independent minded children turn against their parents so often. I sympathize with these young lovely women’s father. If i had ever met him, i would have comforted him by saying you have done nothing to deserve your children’s resentment. You went far and beyond the bounds of duty and dedicated parents like you are biggest treasures in any child’s life…. 😢
Can we just pause a minute and look at Margi's gorgeous hair!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Great interview ladies! I'm so sorry for all you have both been through. JoCee's story of non consensual sex was so upsetting and disheartening 😢I wish parents were taught more how to handle these situations and ask the hard questions. I'm 54 and I know I would not have asked either if you were ok or if it were your choice or not. I would have assumed. 😢
Weber State is highly underrated. I received an awesome education there and accomplished more than I could have ever imagined. Thanks for the shout-out, Riley.
I'm impressed by the wit, intelligent, and logic of these women.
I really like what Rylee said, that the mere fact that the church is a hostile, stressful and anxiety-inducing organization is enough to leave.
So true, and helps put to ease my concerns of "oh but this or that thing still seems good, maybe it's worth being in the church". Love this interview.
In regards to Bishops asking explicit questions: I just watched the Sam Young series, and the aspect that I think is most puzzling for a lot of outsiders is why the church wouldn’t concede on what would be a very easy fix? Their vehement pushback only HEIGHTENS public scrutiny. It seems counterintuitive for such a colossal corporate entity. What’s to be gained by standing firm in their position other than bishops continuing to get their rocks off? (The decent bishops would, in my mind, be relieved to no longer have that expectation on them.)
Little-to-no career mentoring for high school girls in my time- 1960s. While my brothers were always talking with my parents about their futures and getting referrals to influential people.
I am definitely connecting with JoCee. The first bishop I had to confess to was my best friend's dad and then the second bishop I had to confess to was my high school principal. Years of having to speak with the bishops who were involved in my life in big ways.
Stomach churning
Wow this breaks my heart! 💔
@@joceeporter4269 I really connected with you in many ways ❤️ I was the last one in my family to leave the church. Because of that I always felt kind of like Nephi, despite having sex in high school and struggling with different things in the church. I felt like I would break my mom's heart if I left.
Thank you for your interview, I've enjoyed listening to it and your sisters interview. 🥰
Privilege is so insidious. I empathize with JoCee's feelings on so many levels. It is so hard to have family members you love who participate in systems that hurt you or hurt others. I love them, but it has become a situation in my family where there are just things we don't talk about. That means that I love them but at a distance. Some days, I give us all credit for hanging in there with each other. Yet, there are other days, it simply breaks my heart.
Fellow 1st child here who got a bad rap as black sheep, while my siblings were actually doing things years earlier than I did, they just weren’t caught. I wouldn’t have wanted them to be. It’s their own business. But, just laughing at how my story went much the same way as Rylee & JoCee’s did. Where Rylee was vilified at 1st for ‘sins’ that the middle children were committing without notice. :P Sucked! Not to mention the poor middle sibling having to hide and feel so crappy about it all. I did that too, but after I was found out, they still were hiding. Can’t have been fun!
My heart breaks for the dilemma of trying to compassionately love someone who is actively hurting you.
In any other situation it would be so much more clear cut right? If your parent were blatantly physically abusive of course you wouldn’t continue to put yourself in their path.
These types of subversive - even unintentional, but very real - religious and social harms seem more insidious. Especially when the people you love have been clearly told “this is hurting me.”
It’s a betrayal, and that causes trauma. And if anyone knows how to work with that and still heal, please share the secret with me because I’m dealing with this too. I’m betting a lot of us are.
My heart goes out to y’all. I hope your parents do watch this to see what amazing kids they have raised but also how real the hurt they are causing is. Being a supportive parent in the past doesn’t justify harming you now.
It's so complex! You are so right!
I can definitely relate with her! I am also the quintessential, middle child, with similar labels. My brother was the freakishly smart one, and my sister was very beautiful. I find that, even in my mid-30s, I am still trying to work my way through being a people pleaser and overachieving in every aspect of my life in an attempt to just be enough. I never felt like I was. And now, as the only member of my family who is no longer believing, I feel even more ostracized. I can definitely relate to being the black sheep.
I can so relate to JoCee's experiences in not being encouraged to pursue engineering. My non-Mormon family moved to Sandy, UT as I was graduating from high school in 1980. I went back to the Midwest to study electrical engineering in college, but got summer jobs in Utah. None of my coworkers could understand why a girl was even interested in getting an engineering degree, or why I didn't want to get married and have kids. I did some pretty impressive programming work for the guys I was working with. My reward? A Book of Mormon engraved with my name, along with encouragement to join the church, get married and have kids.
I relate. It’s envious to watch young women today.
My heart goes out to these sisters and while JoCee was sensitive to using the word abuse to describe her relationship with her father, I want to point out that he wasn’t open to her feelings and experience about Mormonism and while it’s not obviously abusive, over a lifetime it is pretty gaslighty and is a form of emotional abuse. I hope she can work through this reality and find a place of healing!
I literally have said multiple times in my head … “ this is seriously like rewatching ‘Succession’. “ at least ten times hahaha . INCREDIBLE content. What an impressive and incredible pair of women, of sisters ; and family . What a great interview (conversation) and dissection Margo and John .
Complex and full of what it should be; Compassion & Expansion. 💓
* Margi
I love these ladies… their love for each other is so beautiful! Smart … so smart! Bravo to you all!
Being reconnected with my sister is a highlight of my life currently! I'm so glad we were able to reconnect eventually!
I’m a never Mormon and have been listening for a while. I figured out the draw-these stories are great therapy sessions for me. ❤❤
Fun fact: Utah was also one of the first places in the country to allow women to serve on juries.
These ladies are so incredibly thoughtful. Thank you for sharing your stories JoCee and Rylee
This is enormously helpful to hear these stories.
This is a great episode; thanks to all involved. It took courage and self-confidence to participate. One thing that puzzled me was why the first boyfriend was spoken of so highly, given that the first sexual experience lacked mutual consent (or maybe it didn't even involve that boyfriend?). In any case, much respect to JoCee and Rylee. Thanks again.
How fortunate that these two intelligent, beautiful young women have each other for support.
This is such a wonderful video set. Absolutely amazing deep dives in such a miraculously flowing way! Thank you so very much for all of your passion for individual truths!! 🙏👍💓💞💓💞💓
John. I know that you say systems not people.. my perspective...People make these systems. These young people are changing themselves which will eventually change the systems ❤️🙏🔥
I posted these two podcasts public on my Facebook because I hope it reaches the right people.
I didn't have enough faith in myself even though my grade-point was almost 4.0 I didn't have enough faith in my ability nor did I think I'd get any scholarships to go back to one of these schools I knew my parents would be able to be able to help me in any way I enjoy the you and I always root for them now
I am finding these episodes so helpful in dealing with a negative HOA where the price to leave is too high but the pain and punishment is sometimes unbearable. The leaders are never wrong and if they are, they bring in their fancy attorneys to shut you back down.
I grew up in Utah as a Mormon but after my parents divorced when I was 10, my mom was treated so badly by both Mormons and non Mormons. I felt like Riley and felt more included by the non Mormons.
Wow, I really vibed with this one. The fact that family pays an organization that fuels suicides and hurts so many people is so hard to cope with.
Eloquent: when JoCee says she realizes that the church is an “unapologetic patriarchal institution that put me in a box…”and how she would have remained were she a Mormon male with all the accompanying power and connections.
Such an amazing beautiful story! Your family is beautifully imperfect as we all are! ❤
The damage that nepotism does isn't just to the people that get edged out, it's also in the form of imposter's syndrome that talented, able people sometimes suffer from, usually ever after.
Really love this episode and especially the conversation at the end about feeling the grief of having your parents still being active, believing members and choosing the church when they see how much harm it causes. I’m queer and one of my siblings is trans. I’ve spoken with my parents about the harm the church caused me growing up and continues to cause to the LGBTQ community and they still choose to be a part of it. It’s really hard.
Margie you should be a therapist! I always love your insight!!!
Enjoyed part 1. John, your audio sounds dif than these lovely yg ladies. They sound more clear. Thank you John and team along with your guests.
I walk to work in the morning that takes about 45 minutes. I love listening to MS since it is more clear and I don’t have to fiddle with my phone all the time while out in the street. Thanks for your comment since it makes a difference
Yes. These episodes are amazing and John’s audio sounds like he is off mic? Thank you all!!
The lack of empathy patriarchy instills in people is so profoundly hurtful.
This episode was sooo good! Thank you for sharing!!
Love this intro of your podcast John
❤ Heart goes to these sisters. Love this episode.
What lovely articulate young ladies, I wish you all the very best.
Amazing young ladies.
I'm really glad you sisters made peace in your lives concerning the division. Seems like your father was placed in between a rock and a hard place. In wanting to make a life he lost his daughters. That's part of the struggle that parents, especially fathers, have to endure. Couple that with a church that strongly emphasizes male leadership, it's hard to escape that. I have had to work hard to be more understanding toward women. I have learned to understand that I only need to please one woman and respect the rest. So at the end of the day if I want to exercise my belief I have learned to seek a partner that believes and follows as I do. However I want to do everything I can to love and nurture her dreams and give her the support to empower her. I think so many Mormon couples need to unleash the power of their wives and daughters.
How us it in any way ok that her bishop kept her in this confession/shame cycle for THREE years!
The psychological damage!
Thank you for pointing this out! Worthiness interviews are such a dumb concept!
I got triggered so many times during this episode so I had to stop and start again. But it was good. Lots of good discussions happening. I want to say, the teaching profession is not for the faint of heart and although it's not deep intellectual stuff you are actually teaching, the job itself is extremely demanding and requires not just intellect, but also high levels of emotional maturity and firm boundaries, mixed with lots of patience and an understanding of child development, on top of understanding how the brain works, etc. That being said, I definitely wasn't encouraged to pursue a career. It was more of a "fall back on" goal while being a mom and I didn't receive much encouragement so in college I was mostly just trying to find a husband, sad to say. I'm encouraging my 8-year-old in his love of nuclear bombs. He loves learning about it and I'm going to encourage it, especially since we live near INL.
1:57:10 This. Healing, true words. Thx, Margi.
My son is named after the golfer Tom Lehman. I always laugh when the name Lamon as a bad thing in a Mormon context
Brave intelligent strong lovely women! Thank you 🎉
Love Margie❤️ appreciate her responses so much
I was born and raised catholic, and still I have so many similarities in how I got out of that one. Both are amazing, so intelligent, elocuente, and in a very different way they remind me of my younger self.
I respect religions, but I don’t think I could belong to any.
I will be watching the 3rd part.
As a practicing Catholic, I'm so sorry that was your experience. I hope you find healing. 🩵
John was so thrown when she shared she had sex. Lol. He had to recover from that one, cause it was such a surprise. So glad these girls have a chance to share their stories. They seem awesome.
hahaha everyone was surprised by that one 😂
Josh, did you live in Neenach? And have a brother Kennard?
@@weir_family you gotta be kidding?! Yes! I’m sorry I don’t recall your family, but my dad and brother are Kennard. Lol. Who, what, when?? Haha
@@weir_family Hey!! How's it going??
I know both these girls and they’re so wonderful.
I am loving this story ❤ 🌻🌻
Thanks 100 % Supportive to Mormonism survives!!!
The first thing to break my brain as a kid, I think, was when all the men would go into the office for a meeting to make decisions once a month and leave all the women with the children after potluck. Also, a woman could only lead a prayer for other women and children. If there was a man in the room he had to lead to prayer. Not Mormon, but Christian fundamentalist.
Wow blast from the past memory! Did the men & women also pray on separate sides?!🙄
@@STT511 no, that they didn't do
Re their grief about their parents: Growing up is learning to understand that our parents were formed in a different time and environment and have a lifetime of commitments. Time to accept them and move on. Take the promotion, ladies. 😉
“Acting out” is so effing triggering. “Acting out” what, exactly? Gawd.
1:42:27 if I had been asked how I was going to have a family with a career, I would have responded “Do YOU have a family?”. It seems to be the only answer. I’d love to hear his answer.
I guess I agree with Rylee because I'm a natural Rebel But I identify with Jocee because I was the good kid. I did everything right. I knew I wasn't the best kid in the world but no one knew that but me.
Not ever being Mormon, this is very interesting to listen to and there is a lot to glean from this as a parent
Well spoken, super privileged girls most ppl can’t comprehend the advantages these two have had.
I think a lot of us can understand their disadvantages though. Their financial privilege is waaaayyyy out of scope for my experience BUT the experiences I’ve had as a female in the church is very on point with both of these ladies. I definitely didn’t put myself out for opportunity because I knew that my role was supposed to be a wife and mother, I wasn’t supposed to go out and get a career because it would conflict with my purpose. Only coming to realise all of this in my late 30s.
I wouldn’t change the family I’ve created, but I had some traumatic Mormon experiences as a teenager and young mother.
You're lucky you went to the University of Utah more liberal and more open-minded than the rest of the schools and you can get a damn good degree from there will be very glad you went there
1:01:29 I think it’s sooo sad how much she says people discount her faith & belief just because she had sex. As if it’s impossible to be a spiritual person strong in belief, simply because you’re a sexual human being?! But of course, because you aren’t worthy of the Holy Ghost. So you must not be able to be spiritual. WHERE is the grace? Where is the Christlike love? Regardless of the “sin” we ALL commit as humans, we are 100% capable of being in tune with spiritual things & have a heart full of belief. That’s not hypocrisy-it’s mortality.
I’m curious to know which dictates or beliefs the Porters considered doctrine and what dictates or beliefs they considered just cultural. Wish they had defined them. 🤔
2:08:27 I think it’s weird that JoCee keeps calling her husband a non-member when he is and was born and raised in it and is just inactive and non-believing but he is still Mormon and raised Mormon.
I don’t think it is that weird. I was born and raised Mormon. I have left the church and do not believe in it anymore and I do not consider myself a Mormon anymore.
JoCee left the church because the culture was disavantaging her as a woman. That was a very honest answer - no deep spiritual questioning but I found JoCee very honest throughout though not necessarily likeable. She was desperate for acceptance and recognition. This is a very US oriented story of personal exceptionalism. As a non US person I find this jarring.
On another note I find the talk about University reputation and value very interesting. It is a common theme that comes up in these podcasts. I can understand JoCee's unhappiness at not expanding her horizons beyond Uinversity of Utah as it ranks in the seventies or not even in the top 100 US universities depending on what ranking you use. John is always very defensive of local universities and many prior speakers on podcasts seem to have internalized some mormon mythology that BYU is a really top grade university when it is way below the top 50 in the US and nowhere near the top 500 in the world. Is this part of the Mormon cultural blindness?
I agree wholeheartedly. Peace and love to her but like, I don't know how to say it any other way than she had so much more acceptance and recognition and opportunity than SO MANY PEOPLE ever get. And it's great she recognizes that but she only left the church because *she* felt hurt by it. But being outwardly LDS and in her family is what allowed her to get a degree and career opportunities on wallstreet. Like it's breaking my brain a little bit because I would kill to get that kind of nepotism reach she was afforded but her gripe is she wasn't given attention?? It's fucking wild to me. I feel like the recognition of their privilege is so surface level, like just saying "i know we have privilege" does not feel deep enough
edit: and like I completely understand the sexism aspect as much as I can as a nevermo, like I get it that still sucks but, there's still so much she gained from being in that "in-group" of rich, white, LDS people that got their careers from nepotism, that just is insane to me and I cannot for the life of me wrap my mind around it.
I'm really curious to know what made you both not think BYU as your first option? Did y'all already know what an MRS degree was befo' y'all left high school? Because when I found out about it I ran straight to UVU and I nevah looked back 😆
I might have donated my daughter's prom dresses five of them or 7 I'm not sure to the young lawyers who were also involved in prom dresses for those in need what are you going to do with them After High School?? Very good causes
We worked with the Young Lawyers as well! We co sponsored the homeless youth prom for a few years! They are an amazing group and Kate (who runs it) is incredible!
@@joceeporter4269 yes they are there too so glad to receive these dresses
Love when marg
Maybe he is deeply in to it on the covering and hiding for the church so he might scared to leave considering he experienced with his old job which sued him
Wyoming was the first state to let women vote... 1869 love these girls tho!
Thanks for the correction!
♥ ty
I hope that these girls can make their relationship whole with their dad....setting Mormonism aside. They can't dictate his faith just like he cannot dictate theirs now that they are adults. But I hope they realize that their dad is imperfect just like they are. Why not ask him why he stays in the Mormon Church. NO church or organization is perfect; It saddens God as well. I am quite confident that some of the people in the organizations you send money to also have committed heinous crimes against children. Try listening to his story and you might see him in a different light. You may find that you have much more in common than you think. You may need to agree not to talk about faith. My father died when I was 2 and I would give anything to have him here. I would take an imperfect dad that I disagree with than no dad at all.
You girls are so great to listen to - so articulate and pleasant and smart and interesting!! (Jocee you have the same verbal-tic as my brother which I associate with utah and Mormons, which is saying the word “right” constantly 😅 Woops!!! Google it. Comes across as condescending and patronizing which I can see you definitely are not intending.) thank you for the three part series!!
I watch a non Mormon person here on YT with a huge presence and she lives in MN and says "right" all the time....
@@dianasimplifies must be an exmo from Utah 😂
@@dianasimplifies who is it I’d love to watch!!
@@alexbrynna no she's a Christian lady. Never Mormon. Grew up Christian. It's the Minimal Mom. Her sister is a pastor. They are twins and grew up close to where she lives now in MN. A lot of people say "right" has nothing to do with Mormonism as far as I can tell...just seems to be a cultural thing.
@@alexbrynna
Sad they never reference their mom.
I find the comments made about early Mormon women voting the way their husbands wanted them to vote to be very misleading. As a Mormon, lesbian, and a feminist, over the age of 60, I recommend the young ladies read the research of Maureen Ursenbach Beecher, an LDS historian. They would also benefit from learning about early Mormon women such as Emmeline B. Wells, and Martha Hughes Cannon.
I really hope that Seattle will make you and your husband into Seahawk fans, if you and your husband ever wanna hang we can meet up at the first Starbucks that was ever built and chill, im visiting my dad the last week of July and to give Utah a break because Lakewood is home
Sorry you feel so mixed up and sad.
Well, here you go again: doing that generous work that you do; giving us the truth, the real bread we need. TYTYTYTY🌺🌺
Scrupulosity also reminds me of overfunctioning
But your brother held the priesthood as my younger brother did and therefore many things were handed to him how to deal with life married four times and if you weren't perfect he divorced you so how's that for not being prepared for life on your own
Another example of the church losing some of their best and brightest!
Not enough that I am overwrought by time Margi mentions her four-year -old self, but the inevitable attachment of church ad to your cast frame, implying that Book of Enoch was possibly appropriated from j smiff. EGREGIOUS. This cast even "harder" than your last BEST-EVER. Worth every air-sick bag one needs to get through it. 😶😶😶😶
Sheila are you having a stroke? This comment is incomprehensible
@@valid_sound_and_furious961 Many thanks for your sincere concern. Entirely possible I am experiencing a stroke; info is certainly stroke-provoking. But at least 5 others in the room are capable of grasping it. 🐦
Why does the BISHOP care who you are dating at 16 and whether it leads to marriage?