I went on Reddit the other day, got annoyed, and made this video. (There's actually a longer video coming up in about a week about Hunter x Hunter, but I threw together this Anime Mythbusters episode over the last few days! Sorry for the wait!) Thanks again to Raid: Shadow Legends for sponsoring this video. It makes these extra videos worth the effort. All the info on how to get involved is in the description.
@@electricant55 why tf would I be salty when Bocchi is just hands down better? Also it doesn't really work for me. I love it, but I wouldn't consider myself a fan lmao. It seems you're a salty CSM fan tho
mappa always fucks up the management. it's the problem with the studio. they have the talent, passion and ability to produce excellent products but when it comes to management, whether it's time management, staff management or management in general, they goof up big time. either they just don't care about the haters barking or they ignore it completely. while these could be looked like a stupid move, u could also see some upsides to it.
I think the better way to measure commercial success is to see what mappa does with the IP next. E.g. whether they'll bother making a different ending for each episode or if they change directors.
i hope they won’t change it , i don’t know if it did cost a lot and i don’t know if the views those eds gets from youtube and spotify made it “rentable” , but i loved it , it shows how much the staff are involved in this anime.
Changing Nakayama is a bad idea. He is really good. His only major problem is managing his resources. He and Hayashi have similar CGI and filmmaking philosophies but the big difference is that Hayashi managed his time and resources better, arguably balancing his big ambitions with his limitations I just wish there was more investment on CSM but since AoT will finish this year, I am very hopeful Nakayama can do whatever he likes (PS: His realism IS the ambition. The problem is the pressure to animate the way he intends consistently and on top of the audience being too used to certain expectations)
6:00 Speaking of its value. I would assume Chainsaw Man might have had among the highest licensing fees for a brand new anime IP in years. The Minimum Guarantee might have been the highest in history for a show with no prior history as a TV anime, and a first time adaptation of new mangaka's show. In regards to Demon Slayer or Jujutsu Kaisen, one would assume they would do well, but they did infinitely better than ever predicted. In Chainsaw Man's case every partner definitely assumed it would be a major success, and the international attention since the idea of an adaptation was even conceived on the internet was massive to begin with. CR definitely did not get off cheap with this one.
Incase If you are really comparing it with Jjk and DS ? it matches the feat of Jjk But not with Demon Slayer Demon Slayer success is Phenomenal Do you really think it can surpass that🗿 bro every one's luck isn't like that...
@@aniketghorai8386jujutsu kaisen sold 35k+ dvds even though it was on mappa store. Jujutsu kaisen boosted manga a lot and csm anime barely affected manga sales compared to jjk or ds. Jujutsu kaisen was more wel received Than csm in Japan.
Yup, it's like looking at the sales of Tesla vehicles in car dealerships and claiming that Tesla is a failure when all their cars are sold online. Anyone who is a fan have no reason to buy the disks from anywhere other than Mappa directly for all the perks. Though having said that, if the sales are through the roof, I'm sure Mappa would love to boast their numbers. We shall see!
@@Sharnyn What kinda weird made-up narrative is that. It was both the most hyped anime and ppl didn't stop watching it. Where did you ever get that idea from?
Off topic, but stuff like this really makes me wonder if original screenplay anime have a higher hill to climb than manga/light novel/game adaptations. I'm mostly thinking about Yuri on Ice which was allegedly supposed to get a movie but still hasn't? It wasn't Chainsaw Man or Attack on Titan Final season (split into almost five parts) popular but it's been a total mystery for me.
Anime is weird like that. Big hits are often not capitalized on, potential franchises with rabid fanbases are left on the side of the road, while often complete flops like Fire Force or Fruit of Evolution will get several seasons. I do not understand their pipeline sometimes.
@hymiie it sold like 100 dvds, which is really sad even by today's standards. Also, it's left almost no cultural impact despite it clearly trying to be the Next Big Thing. I also know absolutely no hardcore FF fans despite knowing a lot of anime fans. Music still slaps though I'll give it that. Animation is nice too. Too bad about the poor writing and flat characters.
We really need more people like you who bring awareness about the anime industry and the way it works. Great video Canipa! What sources would you recommend to an average Joe like me who wishes to be more informed about the industry?
Makes sense that the impact of Bluray sales means less and less with more people streaming. Plus, merchandise sales has always been important too for anime.
And stuff like Eromanga sensei does 10k+ while stuff like MHA, Blue Lock, and Mushoku Tensei sell low amounts while being some of the most popular and most viewed shows.
The thing is, we dont have actual data from mappa's sales other than foot traffic to there site. Also do other studios do this exclusive special sale release on there websites? If so, wouldn't that suggest that all of chainsaw man's contenders have also sold more than reported by oricon?
Nah MAPPA is a much bigger deal than most other studios like Cloverworks, A-1, probably even KyoAni based on its influence and power. Very few others have their own studio stores. Also lack of official data basically throws everything in the drain
So after looking over on amazon jp (this is just an observation). I compared the chainsaw man blu ray with the bocchi the rock blu ray, since sales of these have been getting compared and chainsaw man has a 3 out of 5 star review were as bocchi has a 5 out of 5. Chainsaw man only has a standard blu ray and standard dvd listing. Bocchi has listings for the standard edition blu ray and two different special, more expensive editions that come with bonuses that are sold out from amazon jp. Just from an observational perspective, chainsaw man isnt recieved as well so maybe there is somewhat truth to the oricon data but well never know for sure.
I've said it on other channels, but it was certainly a failure in some aspects more than others. Streaming numbers show interest, but they don't translate into much interest in the show/product itself -- low disc sales -- or the original material, as seen by the very low increase to the manga sales, when it should've seen JJK, Tokyo Revengers, and so on numbers. When regarded as its own thing -- as it tried and failed to be -- it's debatable how well it did and we can only really speculate until numbers from MAPPA are released or until S2 is released and the staff isn't changed. But, in terms of getting more people interested in the original material, it was an utter failure because it was so different from the real thing. It should've been the next Demon Slayer or JJK, or at the very least saw a similar increase that TR and SxF did, but it did not. It's a little silly to make a video that completely ignores that fact, focuses only on the disc sales and why they don't matter, but then end the video with "but they do matter, sometimes". I understand your points and reasonings, but this is a topic that needs to be broken down in-depth, rather than in a quick and somewhat misleading video. You did say you were biased, though, so I won't give you too much grief, but then that kind of makes the title "mythbusters" even more misleading. :p
This whole comment section is a copium containment board. Fucking hell man, the delusions these people trying to live by. It is funny how people keep memeing 1735 about the supposedly based CSM but at the same time, trashy self aware isekai show like Eminence in Shadow got a S2 greenlit and a fucking mobage without even trying. What a time to be alive.
No it shouldn’t have been the next Demon Slayer, are you crazy? A creative manga is bound to have a controversial adaptation, and Chainsaw Man does not have the mass appeal of any of those shows. The problem with the adaptation is that people wanted a standard adaptation from a manga that was far from it, the adaptation proceeded according, and people got mad it wasn’t palatable aka generic enough.
It would never be the next Demon Slayer or JJK 😂 It’s like comparing Dune to Star Wars. Chainsaw Man just doesn’t have the mass appeal like a conventional shonen series. My teen nieces watch DS multiple times, but they’ll never get into CSM.
This is so funny. In the past (about 10 years), numbers like these couldn't impress anime fans, but now that these numbers have become basically meaningless, people are discovering this kind of benchmarking. Marvellous.
I have to disagree with you on this one. While it is true disc sales are no longer the majority source of the income, it still is the most profitable, a good analogy is like first class and business class of a passenger jet. Sure a full business and empty first will still turn you a profit, but it is still very bad since you failed to capture the market that was there. MAPPA itself is expecting at least 16000+, that is why they booked Tokyo Garden theater with 8000 people for two events, and put the tickets lottery in the disc sale. Besides if this is any other anime the studio might be fine, but CSM happen to be the one where MAPPA is the only one in the production committee, or in other words they paid for everything from publishing ads to tv ads to even freaking billboards at Shibuya station. MAPPA needs every dollar possible and judging from the BD sale, they missed the mark hard 10 fold. When you missed that hard, it is a commercial failure even if it is technically not in the red.
I've seen that analogy before, but it's absolutely bizarre. There are limited seats on a passenger jet. There are no open seats, just overall profits through many different sources. You could say the same about any show with any open revenue source. Also, it's not exactly true that MAPPA expected 16000 vol. 1 sales. Those tickets can still just be bought... It's not an event exclusive to people with Bluray players.
(sorry for my bad english) Unrelated but a question. You think how big Mappa is gonna be (or manabu is gonna make it)? Because that seems like the direction he is looking for right now with a lot of money that they made. And also make more in-house departments (and their own teams in those departments) and also get independent. And he wants to make it soon as possible. (although it's Really impressive how he managed to make Mappa this big in such a short time) What do you think?
No, the ANIME isn’t a commercial failure in the FIRST season. But it’s certainly FAILED to capture core fan audience and shows the failure of the property as a whole (at least, to be able to be boosted by the anime like other SJ properties). BD/dvd sales may not mean much for anime production ledger, but it’s still an indication that core fans are less willing to shell money for csm goods, which may affect other streams of avenues for the property like live shows and other goods (this is also shown by the manga sales not as boosted like other popular titles). Most of the hype is from “international fans” of which many only know how to watch shit off 9anime. Mappa may made the money back for the first season from streaming sites but that failure may bite them later for next seasons as the property becomes less valuable and it’s been shown the hype isn’t worth THAT much. It’s clear they’re trying to appeal to international audience and you could say that’s a success, but pretty likely at the cost of alienating the core japan market from which the core profitability of the property lies. In a way it’s kinda like Mappa made bank on the anime by sacrificing it even if it’s not their intention. I won’t say you’re coping but the focus is wrong.
I predicted that chainsaw man bd sales like these one would be going to be be 4k-7k. There was a reason MAPPA decided to fund the anime themselves and it's because of this very situation. CSM money will come from the commercial and sponsorship side, to which the show will likely become a major force in. MAPPA will make a ton more money off CSM than they did with JJK. When we understand how BD sales work, yes i can predict that chainsaw man can have 'low' bd sales. Demon Slayer S1 sold 11k in its first week and that show is a cultural phenomenon in Japan. Mushoku Tensei only did 4k in its first week and that topped the streaming charts in Japan during Part 2. Stuff like Eromanga Sensei sells over 10k in BD sales, there's a very clear image of the people who buy them. also remember the MHA BD sales. Despite being one of the biggest franchises in Japan, the Anime only sells 2k at most in its first week (the movie does better but the series doesn't). I predicted somewhere around 4k-7k, which will probably be the figure once sales from MAPPA's website are included or it is even higer than my estimation. It's irrelevant to the success of the show, MAPPA's profits will come from the commercial success of the show. Which it appears to be a powerhouse in.
@@Zelldic27 so what? i am telling that now bd sales does matter but it only tell a very skewed story. since it only matter for fans who can afford it or want to went their way to buy blu rays. Now, these new things like streaming is much better indication of success.
@@HerMi.T the point is that all the other popular anime still got at least 10k blu rays. chainsaw man comes from a stupidly popular manga and is the only "big hit" anime with low sales like that, why does everybody say that is "normal"?
@@Zelldic27 no, they doesn't mushoku tensei sells 4k in it's first week. MHA same. it does tell something that how much their more 'crazy' or 'rich' fans like to invest in it or want to invest in it (here crazy means those who make their mind to buy this bd). it also depends on what is the price of these bd and did these fans can afford to do that? BD sales is always very uneven source where even puopular things can sell less than needed. a popular one wouldn't be affected by it but more niche one would be affected by it because creator tend to see it's response through BD sales in past. it is not crazy popular, other series like MHA, jujutsu kaisen are also crazy popular, even more than CSM. hype is not a bad thing, wrong expectations are bad thing. a reasonable hype (where you create hype by giving reason behind source's greatness and it's label as 'peak fiction') is very important for a series success. infact, more underrated stuff should be hyped more. Also i even going to say CSM should be more hyped in a controlled and reasonable manner. By making it popular, CSM animators and creators already earned lot of money to make their risk less through bidding by streaming companies just like this video said. Creating a popularity also help them in selling it's merch. they doesn't need to popularize it even in first place because CSM is already very popular in japan.
Japanese fans didn't like Nakayama's "cinematic" and serious direction for the anime, apparently it was also "too art-polished" for them and the color tone was too earthly and "dull-grey" for them. Those are the most common complaints I can find online I think. Nakayama and the rest of the staff are not affected by any criticism or the remake petitions since it's just a loud minority which is reassuring, he will 100% return for season two. Fujimoto took part in the anime production's script behind the scenes and he chose Nakayama for a reason so we're in good hands for future production. The Blu-ray sales were a definite failure but it still succeeded as an adaptation worldwide.
From what I've read, it kind of seems like Nakayama is done with working for Mappa but I bet the next Chainsaw Man projects will maintain a similar art direction
Not to mention that the manga sales went up to 1 million+ every month since the anime, always being in the top 3 best selling of the month. 3.6 million of the 3.8 million sold in 2022 were during October-December, and 1 million was sold in half a month in January, ending with 1.6 million.
I told people right before the anime was first announced that CSM will not blow up even slightly like JJK or Demon Slayer no matter how good the adaptation is. CSM is a very weird ass series that already reached most of it's audience way before the anime so an adaptation wouldn't do much for it. It did get some more fans after that probably are into series like this but didn't know about it, other than that most people don't like this type of manga, heck I've seen people that really loved the cinematic/more serious style of the anime and then jumped to read the manga and they don't like it.
Chainsaw Man is maybe one of the funniest anime project I've ever seen. It even got its own Mythbusting. It even lead to some incredible Ethnic wars on their folksub. Anyway, great video even though I think if fans and ppl in general were a lot more attentive to Canipa's Studio spotlights and Mythbusting, they won't be shaken by "guys who pretend that disc sales are a stable source of revenue and that disc sales charts are a thing" on r/anime. Anyway, it's up to ppl to believe what they wanna hear but personally, even though CSM wasn't even my favourite anime from 2022, I just want MAPPA and Nakayama to return with a sequel to just shut their mouth. Anyway, those movie parody posters seem dope as hell.😻
Great video as usual! I'd also wager that Disk sales probably matter a whole lot more for smaller or lesser known projects, such as Lycoris Recoil. Though the show is big now, I imagine there being hesitation from most when bidding for the rights to stream an original Anime. And so, whether or not these smaller projects succeed, may still in part be measured by sales. However, with a big name like Chainsaw Man or Demon Slayer, you already know it's gonna succeed whether or not the Anime is good. Both series already had large following's before their Anime, and so they were guaranteed to gather in views regardless of the quality of the series itself. A series like Lycoris on the other hand, attracts a more dedicated fan base, people who are more willing to buy merch of their favorite characters, just due to the character designs themselves. Whereas Chainsaw Man and other Shonen Anime/Manga, are targeting a more general audience. A young audience that may not have the money for merch, or an audience that enjoys the series casually but doesn't watch enough Anime to dedicate a spot on their shelf for it. Sure, there are those who are dedicated to these series enough to buy merchandise and Blu-Ray's, but these sales are a bonus, not a guarantee or necessity. Unfortunately, this discussion has only come up due to the vocal minority that would love to see Chainsaw Man be a failure, either because they hated the Manga in the first place and didn't understand why it was big, maybe because they just hate what's popular and haven't even given the series a fair shot, or they think the Anime betrays Fujimoto's vision (Which it doesn't!). Regardless, when you're biassed already, it's easy to point and scream at any data that _might_ prove your point. To these people: I would like to remind you, the Chainsaw Man Anime failing wouldn't mean that we got a more _Faithful_ adaptation, it would simply tell the industry that people don't want a Chainsaw Man Anime. This is the adaptation we have, so instead of trying to pick it apart, why don't you try enjoying it for what it is? Or look for its good qualities? There's only twelve episodes so far, and this is by far the weakest part of the Manga -- So let's just wait to see what comes next before we decide it's a bad adaptation. Trust me, my two favorite Manga are The Promised Neverland and Tokyo Ghoul. I know what a bad adaptation is like!
On top of the basic shift from physical media to streaming, shows will definitely sell less physical media the more they appeal to a younger audience. So on top of not knowing the numbers on things like Mappa's direct sales, we can't evaluate accurately based on disc sales unless we know the age demographics of various shows' audiences.
I have no idea why people are saying this all of a sudden when the show is clearly extremely popular and everywhere. Even shows like Fire Force that had low Blu-ray sales got continued because they increased the sales of the manga.
Also its not as if its a particularly great bd release anyway. I am not surprised as many people aren't paying for a more expensive Blu-ray for 3 eps with nearly no animation revision done on it. This probably results in less sales anyway. I think a better indication will be when all the disks are released
@@A1000-b9s 12 is almost perfect? Dude it was 80% cg fest of fight. Looked so meh compared to sequences you get in 4 and others. Not to mention the staff had like 3000 frames to animate within a week of airing it. It needed revision.
@@gamebond6248 that information was fake. Even the leaker said that it was a joke. Something like this is not humanly possible. Also stop with this CGI=infenior bullshit. They even added 2d smears on top of it. There could be more 2d shots but they couldn't because The schedule caught up to them. Also they need to use CGI because The denji's chainsaws specially for the slower Scenes need to spin and that is not possible in 2d and this Camera movements is not also possible without CGI models
I dunno man. Why they throw discount left and right if the disc selling well? You throw discount to clear dead stocks or overstocked items. Not fast-moving items. How much you pay for streaming services and how many that money had to be divided before the money reached to the studio? You aren't thinking this objectively.
Thank you for making this video, the amount of people online spreading these "facts" online so that they can justify their own premediated hate of the anime is ridiculous. It may not be the case for all of the haters of the show but a lot really wanted to use these Oricon sales as proof to fuel their distain for the adaptation and as proof that "Blu-Rays = popularity & success". Manabu Ootsuka is one of the smartest business men in Japanese anime right now, for better or for worse. He would have not headed this project in multiple public viewings as well as spending as much time dedicated to a project he believed wouldn't benefit the company. While it's likely that CSM's BD sales overall, even including their hypothetical website sales, weren't as high as something like Bocchi the Rock they don't need to be. Markets, to name a few, such as: "Cute Girl, Band, Ecchi, Hentai and Love Live!!" are ones where BDs have more a significant sales due to exclusive benefits like you said. And for what I believe to be that they still cater to a sub-culture that still values the Anime BD market. I believe there was an interview involving WIT or IG Port that discussed the weight of BDs on productions was lessening every year. I mean just look at Vinland Saga and AoT, recent BDs for them are nowhere near some of the Cute Girl shows.
Also damn, seeing these comments a day later and wow... It feels like a lot of you aren't looking to critically analyse why you think CSM could have financially failed. Instead a good amount of people are grabbing the news they saw on Twitter and using it to fund their fandom war, you people disgust me.
Yup! For better or worse, big modern anime's profitability is often determined before it's released based on the licensing deals lined up. Same with everything on Netflix. They get a blanket payment that generally covers production costs outright. Of course, there are plenty of different production circumstances depending on the committee's expectations (For instance, Gundam profitability is largely determined by model kits+general Gundam brand exposure), but yeah, a lot of money already gets spent before anyone knows what the actual show is.
@@BoobaMilkTea Is it? I mean, the idea of anime having their profitability largely set in stone before we can see if it's good or not sounds pretty bad, but it's not like there was ever much correlation between profitability and quality.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. DVD sales aren’t as important IN JAPAN as they were 5 years ago. Oricon s not as relevant. Fans in their 20’s don’t have TV’s these days. They DO have Netflix.
@@ErikaBernLambda it’s a hell of a drug. But seriously DVD sales aren’t an indicator of much these days especially as more and more shows continue streaming on thier BD release dates. This never used to happen. I remember when Chainsaw Man news came out, I checked Netflix - it was still there. When Bochi’s BD dropped, it was gone from Netflix and so I had to use my VPN to finish it.
This reminds me of when Internet chuds decided to post random photos of empty movie theaters to “prove” that Captain Marvel was flopping even as it was making absolute bank. People will use whatever BS they have to to push the narrative that their personal pet peeves represent the silent majority.
People spread this narrative? People actually say this? People actually say one of the most hyped up and successful anime of last year was a failure? Jesus Christ.
The hype was largely due to people loving the manga, people call the anime a failure. Not saying that's correct or not but hype doesn't play into this.
@@electricant55 Not my point. Obviously a ton of people are going to tune in because they loved the manga. When people say it's a failure they mean the actual thing disappointed people and it will fail to generate the same level of hype next time.
@@electricant55 My point is when people call it a failure, they are *not talking about the initial viewership*. It's like a big blockbuster everyone expects to be good so everyone goes to watch making it a commercial success, but people finds it disappointing so they stop supporting it further. The latter half is what people are talking about, so you can't use initial hype as a argument for why they're wrong, regardless of whether they're actually wrong or not.
This honestly doesn't make it any better. The whole thing about Oricon only taking from certain stores should also go for every other anime with a website. So for this instance lets say Bocchi, does 15k (I forgot the exact number) for vol. 1. That means Bocchi actually sold 15k + website sales. This would go for other big anime like SxF, Kaguya, JJK, Demon Slayer, etc. which STILL performed well on sales outside of their websites. It might've done well from the website, but all around I'm still fairly certain it failed to perform to the same heights as it's big competitors since they also sold big from their websites. And completely dismiss disc sales compared to streaming is asinine. Streaming has to be split up between more entities than just the studio receiving the full pay from discs. To apply the western ideology that "discs are old" to a country that still uses flip phones and fax machines is very brash. This whole video seems like a bit of coping for the sales. It just felt like an argument with cherrypicked data and really nothing to back it up other than "trust me bro"
Canipa has deleted comments before, some that were as respectful as possible But just because they went against the narrative of the video, they got 1984'd
"Streaming has to be split up between than just the studio receiving the full pay from discs" - that is very rarely the case, and definitely not with CSM where Mappa financed the entire project themselves. They directly receive both the streaming revenue and disc revenue. And even in a more traditional production committee situation, those would go to either the same or two different members of the committee depending on the situation, and either or neither of them could be the studio.
@@erufailon4723 is there any source you have to back this up? I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's basically the same thing Canipa did where you just say it and don't really provide any backing. Would be appreciated
I dont think they sell Bluray in BTR official site, but if it's Aniplex official store they does and release all of the BTR Bluray volume (1-6) simultaneously while there's only 1 CSM volume at the moment
Glad you make this video There is many bad rumor around chainsaw-man anime, and how vocal people on social media kinda make me feel the anime not really welcomed in japan n just overated by non-japanese Hope MAPPA can make it more greater in next season
It is so funny that BD sales suddenly lose its meaning when it comes to CSM unlike Demon slayer or JJK which sold about 20k. Plus CSM BDs offer buyers priority on an event with 8k seating... 8k ticket-quota?! Father, mother, sister, dog! Father, mother, sister, dog!
Great video again man. I really hope we get that season 2, because I'm still a bit shaky when I don't see concrete sales numbers. Though this video has put me at a bit of ease. We've adapted the more mediocre parts and literally are just on the edge of when the story really starts to shine. Hopefully the production will be less of a mess though with season 2. Wit and MAPPA have been doing the most with their crappy schedules and reliance on out sourcing. Edit: I've been curious to ask if you ever plan on making a full video on the production process for shows and what each role plays in it. I know you touch upon those topics in many videos, but are you interested in making a full length deep dive?
what mediocre part? don't go into that tangent again man? it is not mediocre part. ther are so many meanings and character growth for both denji and aki in this first season. i would even say that it shows the way how chainsaw man going to act from this point. thir are lot of things which even going to make later parts hit harder. Don't undermine this first season.
@@HerMi.T Well it's not like mediocre things don't have good value here and there, but the overall product remains the same. Pretty much everything until katana was neat, but really nothing blowing any minds aside from everything going on in Denji's head yet even that was mostly in its infancy. I give my hat to the fact that we do get good pay off to everything set up here, but you going really remember the meal of the appetizers do you? Besides, mediocre doesn't mean bad in the first place. I respect your take though. If that early portion is a masterpiece in your book then more power to you.
While I'm not one of them, I can see why there are people who want Chainsaw Man to fail. It's been hyped up like the second coming of Christ for years and while obviously having a sizable audience, isn't for everyone. I've tried to get into the manga several times personally, and while not bad, it consistently failed to get me invested enough to continue past the 20th chapter or so. I could see people who've gotten caught up in the hype train only to be disappointed feeling that the success of it is unearned and wanting people to move on from it. The manga vs anime discourse seems odd to me though, given how well-produced the anime looks and the whole culture war aspect of it just come across as peak weeb/otaku cringe.
@@carloscauan7967 Yeah, but then I remember that there are plenty of manga I've enjoyed far, far more than the first 20 chapters of Chainsaw Man from chapter 1 to the very end, and I move on to something else. A lot of the things that I've seen people praising that were in the first 20 chapters also felt underwhelming. Denji's overly grimdark backstory or Denji realizing that touching a boob once won't give him fulfillment in life, left no sort of impact for example. I also found the characters, which tends to be the most important aspect of a story for me, to be mostly bland, uninteresting and unlikable. All in all, there seems to be a lot pointing to whatever's past chapter 20 simply not being worth it for me. I might check it out again in the future if I ever get the time and inclination to do so but I'm not exactly going to lose sleep over whether or not it suddenly stops being mid at chapter 21.
Another week, another copium. Even made this part of your Mythbusters series, embarrassing. Literally any other big anime right now has the BD sales to compare, so just accept that something went horribly wrong.
The director thought he was masaki yusa or something who will elevate the anime from the manga's level with his own style and techniques. Ended up with 12 eps of incoherent flow, cringe drawn out comic(n't) scenes and a mishandled plot with no focus. Sorry but you are no genius director.The people who are already fan of the manga doesn't want you to be taking risks and taking creative freedom, they just want you to stay true to the product you are supposed to adapt. Feel free to get as creative and bizarre as you want with your own content. But not with the adaptation of a manga that came out only a few years ago which is still relevant. Don't fix something that doesn't need to be fixed. You'll just end up f**king it up. And it's embarassing to admit it now, but CSM was being hyped up crazy. And mappa joined in too..with too much extra spendings like different endings, expensive marketing etc. The negativity the anime recieved ,got directed to the manga too. Before the anime the manga already had the reputation of something akin to a cult classic. But now you can't go on social media and call yourself a CSM fan without getting trolled
Yeah that's natural I think, companies want money, creators want creativity and fans want their expectations meet or just want to enjoy. I agree with you and I like the adaptation. It has the right amount of essence of the manga but well I think fans just expect so much that I don't think any anime adaptation would meet this even it's one of the greatest mangas.
@@aniketghorai8386 nothing is overhyped. i would say chainsaw man should get even more hyped than it does. ofcourse, bad expectation is a thing but it is not related to hype. it is related to how you relate that hype and make your own expectations. a responsible hype is important to create by fans.
I go to university in Tokyo, and basically all of my friends have watched and loved chainsaw man. I'm genuinely curious as to where and how anybody got the idea that the show is hated here, and I wish to know if they had any sort of insight into the reception of the show in Japan before spreading such nonsense.
Oh look look, another UA-camr video of some random youtuber trying to assert his thoughts with half-assed informations and alot of personal bias as facts instead of making it clear its a personal opinion. Mothers Basement 2.0 in the making
As if The Canipa Effect and Mother's Basement aren't the most well researched aniyoutubers out there... Edit: that's not to say they cannot be biased. Everyone has biases.
What did he say that is wrong ? The Canipa Effect has some of the most researched videos into the japanese animation industry that you can find out there so he is pretty reliable imo
This mappa store cope is hilarious. No cared about the studio's store sales for BDs until csm stans needed to do damage control after their anime's BDs flopped hard.
As I said in the video, whether it did or did not sell big physical numbers isn't really relevant to the show's success. I'm not doing damage control for my 6th favourite show of 2022 lol.
If this was bleach they wouldn’t be allowing sales on the Perriot store as an excuse. It’s funny which shows people decide get to have excuses and passes. People should just take the L you gassed up something that didn’t go as well as you planned move on.
People accessing payment info page on MAPPAs site increased by 550% in January when the BD came out. Even if only a 3rd of those NEW people bought the CSM BD it's still 4-5k (on top the sales everywhere else)
@@HerMi.T No what I mean is that Chainsaw Man was so popular because there was a lot of hype backing it up the manga community who had read the manga hyped it a lot Mappa too promoted the show as if a masterpiece movie was about to be released however to be honest the actual good parts of CSM actually come after all this the Second Season will actually be what I would call a great watch first season is just building groundwork for second season compared to CSM now both Bocchi and Lycoris Recoil gave the viewers a great show to watch which felt complete and satisfying to watch that's all I am saying I don't consider CSM bad or anything I consider it a technical masterpiece
@@Aman_Mondal yeah, i agree with you that bocchi the rock and lycoris recoil in first season is probavly better for many people than chainsaw man first season. But don't undermine chainsaw man's first season. it is bomb girl arc which make it great. i would call it great from get go (ofcourse i sound like fanboy but listen my reasoning). Chainsaw man first season already started the development of denji and aki. it creates the dilemma of denji thinking that he is not good person since he doesn't care for others. ofcourse that is not true but denji thinks like that. As compared to him, katana man has someone to care for and avenge for. denji on the other hand isn't even that much sad for pochita (according to him). he thinks in back of his mind that katana man deserves to live his normal life than him. he does kill others but denji also does this for his dream. katana man on the other hand does it for 'others'. that is the struggle we introduced here. even though he doesn't really succumbed to it. in fact denji is the someone who understands other very well. that's why he doesn't feel for revenge or cry for someone's death. he understands that yakuza doing their things for their own dreams. that's why he doesn't hate them. katana man has this hypocritical angry attitude because he thinks others as lesser than him and his yakuza. he is brainwashed by his grandpa. he care for him as a idol than as a person. that hypocrite is reveled in fight against chainsaw man (i am talking about 2nd one because that person death in first death can be attributed to denji as well according to him). he uses katana's ego to defeat him and show his conviction and his ability to understand others and adapt according to it. katana's discrimination toward others is the reason along with himeno's death that he wants to punish him by kicking his nuts. he adapt according to situation and learn how to accept and respect other's emotion. Similarly, their is development for aki to not take life as serios as he think always and enjoy his life as much as he can and make others life happier. that's why he quit smoking. you will see this directly in 'first' episode of season 2. I can also talk about that boob arc of denji in first three episode which teaches him the lesson to understand yourself better and create goals according to it or the difference between a platonic and romantic relationship. and how understanding others as a person and your emotions toward others is the first step to create a genuine caring relationship of any kind toward others. What i mean is that first season is perfect for developing their characters to grow them and create anticipaion for payoffs for their growth in later season. if you watch or read season 1 again after completing series, you will find these small details of characterization and development which would payoff in later season. One more thing, it being hyped is a great thing which attract others to watch. hype is never a bad thing, wrong expectations. infact, i would say that chainsaw man should be even more hyped, also underrated series should be more hyped than it is. This season is a introductory but also the one which already started their development and growth which will be pay off in coming arcs and lead their further growth.
internet review bombing is easy to do but its fails riddiculous but if the sales and critics by viewers succeed than its more succesful for the studio and the studio can do more
@@lebyandsmartiel318 I shouldn't seeing as how Canipa did ommit a lot of info. But here are some points: 1. Disc sales were on the borderline of being atrocious, while it's true that disc sales have been downward for years, now the acceptable sales are in the 2k-5k, CSM was a little below that. 2. The increase in sales of the manga was dissapointing, the BIG success of the season was Blue Lock, which is a little fun because while CSM spent a lot in marketing, BL achieved it just by airing alonside the WC and make the incredible Japanese team performnce boost the sales for them. I do believe that CSM was profitbale, calling it the succeses that MAPPA was expecting it's really dubious. Also, I only talked about hard data we have of Oricon, while Canipa was speculating a lot on this video, he also shoot himself in the foot with the Lycoris Recoil comparison lmao.
@@Daidan21 Unlike a Demon Slayer or JJK which are Shounens who pull in huge audiences Chainsaw Man is something that only gathers a small group of fans. Going off Oricon's sales we could say its about 2.5k but this shouldn't dismiss the fact that the biggest place to purchase the BDs was on the studio's on website and that was just not accounted for at all. Even if they did matter, do you think that the dozens of companies paying to stream and air CSM are paying pennies for it? Ootsuka is a man of strict profits and I'd be surprised if someone as strict as him would aim for anything else.
@@Daidan21 According to the stats it it only looks like Blue Lock sold more because its sales are spread over 5 volumes vs just one volume for Chainsaw Man. If you're going volume to volume BL sold an average of 700k copies per volume vs CSM's 3.5million. Both are very respectable numbers though. And they're both getting absolutely crushed by SpyxFamily.
I started the season with dread for Bleach and thinking that at least CSM will be fun. Instead I was bored of CSM and found Bleach extremely entertaining. I hadn't read the manga and I wasn't on the hype train. I was just going "let's check what all the fuss is about" after missing out on Demon Slayer when that aired. I don't know if it's a matter of the quality of the adaptation or the material itself not clicking with me, but I found the anime quite bland and wasteful of its characters. I didn't find the episodes all that interesting, as I found them quite bland and basic.The animation looks awkward to me. There's just something about the movement that looks off and sometimes action scenes have 0 impact. Voice acting was fine. Nothing ontable there. To me the anime was a resounding MEH, with some parts that stood out as weird, which prompted me to go and read the first few chapters of the manga after finishing the anime. I really only read what was covered in the first 3 episodes and overall I'd say that I prefer the manga. Some things are cut and moved around in the anime and I think the manga did it better. Ultimately for me the show breaks down like this - ok voice acting - animation that looks both well done and janky at the same time so a net 0 for me - uninspired animation style - weak action scenes - waste of oportunity to go for some visually creative fight scenes or stylize the action a hell lot - Aki is the only interesting character so far, as Power just hangs around and doesn't do anything and Denji doesn't seem to have much going on either. Aki is the only one that we learned a lot about and developped. We learned stuff about Denji, but he didn't develop and Power is completely surface level. - don't recall anything from the OST standing out Overall to me CSM is a solid 4 or 5 out of 10. It's ok in most areas. In some it did better than average and in others it did worse. Based on the anime I don't understand what the hype for CSM is. It just doesn't have a strong identity in my opinion. It just is. Which is kind of idsappointing because I thought something called CHAINSAW Man would be a lot more fun and creative
It was unique and a lot of fun, and well paced with a plotline that feels like it exists Then came Mappa with their smartass director who thought he could do better than the manga with his own style by abandoning fujimoto's style of dry/ wacky humor and quick but efficient storytelling - the only reasons, otherwise an average story like CSM worked so well. And you ended up with 12 eps of nothing but - Abysmal flow and over exaggerated comic scenes and dialogue delivery. The director seems like he is an autistic person who read the manga and didn't understand which scenes are for comic purposes and which scenes are serious. So he made the anime in his own perception where the joke scenes were taken seriously and dragged on to the point they become cringe while he didn't take the character work seriously at all. Most of the fights were never amazing in the manga so I'll pass on that. The ost was also very underwhelming for an anime that spend so much extra on ending songs
I'm sorry but how is it a failure? Blu-Ray Sales? Manga Sales? Both are irrelevant, because 1- MAPPA owns CSM 100% so all the revenue from CSM airing and the hundred different ways from merchandises and MANY more things all goes back to MAPPA, which means, unlike when the Studio isn't a part of the production committee, Blu-Ray sales aren't the only sourse of revenure they have next to the money they were originally paid to make the anime. 2- Magna sales also doesn't matter because Shuisha isn't a part of CSM Production Committee (Which, again, is 100% produced by MAPPA) so Shuisha is more than happy with any sales at all because they didn't pay a single dollar to make the anime. Edit: Sorry sorry, I wrote this before watching the video, so I assumed you're going with the internet flow and just point out why CSM is a failure, but I still believe that the points I mentioned are true and are enough to shatter this false information that is being spread around for trolling sake or because they don't know what they're talking about.
@Brandon Gray sweetheart I did watch the video and ACTUALLY apologized at the end. But the fact that you didn't read my apologies means that you didn't fully read my comment till the end.
@@scythe9734 Based on the time displayed on my end, they replied to your comment just a minute after you posted it, so the apology you edited in could've been made after they replied. There's really no need to try getting a one-up on them lol
@@EmeraldNero I was in the middle of writing the comment, I wasn't gonna stop there because what I said is still true and doesn't contradict the points in his video at all; It just add to them.
NGL i after i watched chainsawman, i just thought that it was only mid and the advertising overhyped it. chainsawman was just very lucky it didn't had a bad anime adaptation.
Unfortunately it only really starts to shine after where the anime ended. The places the manga went literally had my jaw on the floor. But part of the narrative of CSM is pretending to be a typical shonen jump series and getting you comfortable in the well-worn tropes before blowing everything to pieces.
I don’t watch CSM just yet but here my guesses on why it a commercial failure and didn’t liked by many Japanese 1- I watched a lot of clips and they gave me some Tarantino and 90 American vibes especially they are animating the anime like a western cinematography style ( which is I liked very much ) but I have a feeling that Japanese are not used to it and didn’t follow like anime and Japan feels 2-Probably Denji is a way different to your typical shonen MC like Luffy, Naruto, Goku etc and he is more relatable. 3- maybe it too gory for some people?
And 4, apparently some people took something the director said to hearth when in an interview he said that he didn't want to make it like a normal anime, or something like that. Tho, chainsaw man really wasn't ment to be popular, not to spoil things but is h0rny af, has a lot of gore, some really disgusting scenes that I could barely watch in the anime. It is an amazing piece of fiction, great storytelling, amazing characters, some scenes just break you down, then rebuild you just to be broken again, especially with the manga's p1 ending, but it is not ment for everyone
Did people actually like chainsaw man anime? well I guess that doesn't surprise me, people love bad anime...just look at the top 100 list on MAL haha...legend of galactic heroes, gintama, steins gate, code geass, mushoku tensei, jujutsu kaisen, the tatami galaxy, ....all really bad anime that just goes to show trash taste is real.
@@jessip8654 What I consider good anime is anime that has a good well written story...and chainsaw man ain't it. Plus chainsaw man is for edgy teens that are h*rny and think toilet humour and pervy characters are funny
@@temutemacular I don't use opinions though, I only speak facts. Opinions are subjective, facts are not subjective. There is non biased ways to determine if an anime is good Story Characters/character development World building Animation Consistency Foreshadowing Music Voice acting Balance Pacing Flaws Fanservice Plot holes Fillers/flashbacks Originality/creativity How well it ages How well it follows the source material/manga Themes Enjoyment (subjective) Bad Arcs Exposition dumps etc...these are non biased ways to judge if an anime is good with the exception of enjoyment only that's the only subjective thing. All those anime I mentioned they all lack in some of these area...story & good likeable characters are the 2 most important things out of all those criteria. It can lack in other areas but if it doesn't have both good story and good characters it's trash.
Bruh, I scrolled through thousands of posts that said that chainsaw man is a failure when the blu rays sales were announced. Almost every post I saw on reddit, every single comment in yt, and, of course twitter
The director said they needed tens of thousands of bds to break even. They only got 2 thousand. Streaming isn't profitable and cannot offset the massive production and marketing budget. Anime doesn't the work the same as original programming where what is greenlit is based on viewership
@@mustarastas88 read the mal threads. 2k sales cannot cover the marketing, 13 Ed's, cgi modeling. The amount of figures is not much compared to the light novel series
@@mustarastas88 mappa expected it to perform at jjk 20 k which is why they made the gamble of fronting the entire production. It doesn't matter if people like it cuz it will lose money. Just like black adam. A lot of the "audience" probably bought nothing from it and illegally pirated it just like how dc fans don't show up to threatres
Provide a link or somewhere where the director said that. A MaL doesn’t mean anything Also, acting as if BDs are the only way they would get money or break even shows you didn’t pay attention to the video and don’t understand the industry. BDs are barely 2% of the market in the anime industry. Merch, licensing, streaming, and collabs matter WAY more and provide WAY more profit, making a total of 87% combined (merch alone being ~24% and streaming/overseas being ~48%). And CSM did amazing in all of those. The licensing alone probably made them break even. Also also, that 2k is only the first volume in the first place.
I went on Reddit the other day, got annoyed, and made this video. (There's actually a longer video coming up in about a week about Hunter x Hunter, but I threw together this Anime Mythbusters episode over the last few days! Sorry for the wait!)
Thanks again to Raid: Shadow Legends for sponsoring this video. It makes these extra videos worth the effort. All the info on how to get involved is in the description.
The reddit thread was my first thought when I saw this video, that was some crazy echo chamber
@@electricant55 CSM fans have the biggest echo chamber imaginable so it evens out lmao
@@Luis-kv8zc found the salty bocchi fan
@@electricant55 why tf would I be salty when Bocchi is just hands down better? Also it doesn't really work for me. I love it, but I wouldn't consider myself a fan lmao. It seems you're a salty CSM fan tho
@@Luis-kv8zc "I love it, but I wouldn't consider myself a fan lmao" this is some russia-grade doublespeak
Me on the Ginza line seeing nonstop ads for a promotion Chainsawman attraction: "Heh, what a financial bomb."
I'm curious.
why didn't Mappa show the data in the first place? Why Mappa let the director get harassed?
It doesn't make any sense.
mappa always fucks up the management. it's the problem with the studio. they have the talent, passion and ability to produce excellent products but when it comes to management, whether it's time management, staff management or management in general, they goof up big time. either they just don't care about the haters barking or they ignore it completely. while these could be looked like a stupid move, u could also see some upsides to it.
@@oogwaythesussyturtle that's the big problem.
As always master oogway speaking the truth
I think the better way to measure commercial success is to see what mappa does with the IP next. E.g. whether they'll bother making a different ending for each episode or if they change directors.
I'm pretty sure the idea of making different endings was Nakayama's idea.
I thought the different EDs kind of cool and pretty creative and gave some variety.
Besides from being cool, it did make a ton of people interested on it
i hope they won’t change it , i don’t know if it did cost a lot and i don’t know if the views those eds gets from youtube and spotify made it “rentable” , but i loved it , it shows how much the staff are involved in this anime.
Changing Nakayama is a bad idea. He is really good. His only major problem is managing his resources. He and Hayashi have similar CGI and filmmaking philosophies but the big difference is that Hayashi managed his time and resources better, arguably balancing his big ambitions with his limitations
I just wish there was more investment on CSM but since AoT will finish this year, I am very hopeful Nakayama can do whatever he likes
(PS: His realism IS the ambition. The problem is the pressure to animate the way he intends consistently and on top of the audience being too used to certain expectations)
6:00 Speaking of its value. I would assume Chainsaw Man might have had among the highest licensing fees for a brand new anime IP in years. The Minimum Guarantee might have been the highest in history for a show with no prior history as a TV anime, and a first time adaptation of new mangaka's show.
In regards to Demon Slayer or Jujutsu Kaisen, one would assume they would do well, but they did infinitely better than ever predicted.
In Chainsaw Man's case every partner definitely assumed it would be a major success, and the international attention since the idea of an adaptation was even conceived on the internet was massive to begin with.
CR definitely did not get off cheap with this one.
Incase If you are really comparing it with Jjk and DS ?
it matches the feat of Jjk
But not with Demon Slayer
Demon Slayer success is Phenomenal
Do you really think it can surpass that🗿 bro every one's luck isn't like that...
@@aniketghorai8386 bro demon slayer is just famous in Japan .
Outside internationally i think csm is more popular.
@@manhwaworld7961 Demon Slayer movie is Second Higest Earning Anime movie behind Pokemon in West
What do you mean "it's just famous in Japan" ?
@@aniketghorai8386jujutsu kaisen sold 35k+ dvds even though it was on mappa store. Jujutsu kaisen boosted manga a lot and csm anime barely affected manga sales compared to jjk or ds. Jujutsu kaisen was more wel received Than csm in Japan.
@@SamirSiraj8542 I know that I was actually implying about it's popularity
Not the bd sales
Yup, it's like looking at the sales of Tesla vehicles in car dealerships and claiming that Tesla is a failure when all their cars are sold online. Anyone who is a fan have no reason to buy the disks from anywhere other than Mappa directly for all the perks. Though having said that, if the sales are through the roof, I'm sure Mappa would love to boast their numbers. We shall see!
Thank god you made this video. One of the most confusing spreading narratives in the last few months.
Consider the anime was so impressively bad that even normies realized and stopped watching, despite it being the most hyped anime in recent memory
@@Sharnyn What kinda weird made-up narrative is that. It was both the most hyped anime and ppl didn't stop watching it. Where did you ever get that idea from?
@@Sharnyn normies in the west loved chainsaw man, and normies in Japan read the manga
@@Sharnynsomebody is clearly coping with something 😂
Off topic, but stuff like this really makes me wonder if original screenplay anime have a higher hill to climb than manga/light novel/game adaptations.
I'm mostly thinking about Yuri on Ice which was allegedly supposed to get a movie but still hasn't? It wasn't Chainsaw Man or Attack on Titan Final season (split into almost five parts) popular but it's been a total mystery for me.
Anime is weird like that. Big hits are often not capitalized on, potential franchises with rabid fanbases are left on the side of the road, while often complete flops like Fire Force or Fruit of Evolution will get several seasons. I do not understand their pipeline sometimes.
@@jessip8654 how was fire force a flop?
@hymiie it sold like 100 dvds, which is really sad even by today's standards. Also, it's left almost no cultural impact despite it clearly trying to be the Next Big Thing. I also know absolutely no hardcore FF fans despite knowing a lot of anime fans. Music still slaps though I'll give it that. Animation is nice too. Too bad about the poor writing and flat characters.
We really need more people like you who bring awareness about the anime industry and the way it works. Great video Canipa! What sources would you recommend to an average Joe like me who wishes to be more informed about the industry?
Cool, thanks for linking to my blog.
Glad that the information is useful 😊
Merchandising! Where the real money from the anime is made!
Came here from MankoMan
the goat
Makes sense that the impact of Bluray sales means less and less with more people streaming. Plus, merchandise sales has always been important too for anime.
Bocchi did 20K so not true.
@@ErikaBernLambda as it should, because Bocchi didn't do as good as CSM in streaming viewership
@@ErikaBernLambda Blu Ray sales do mean less and less. Nowadays more sales is just a bonus.
@@lebyandsmartiel318 then why did JJK and Bocchi sold more?
And stuff like Eromanga sensei does 10k+ while stuff like MHA, Blue Lock, and Mushoku Tensei sell low amounts while being some of the most popular and most viewed shows.
Fantastic video! Thanks for making this
Ooh, interesting, understandable.
*WAIT?!! THERE'S UMA MUSUME ANIME?!!* 7:19
Yup! It's actually one of the best-selling modern Blurays (because of the concert tickets bundled in)
wtf is up with all the comments saying "cope", are you guys a hivemind
It's a super weird discourse. A lot of it started out as fandom wars that's not really about the numbers at all.
Sales tribalism has been a thing since Bakemonogatari at least.
Im so happy to see this video. All this "news" was hurting my soul, but now, I have hope!
Your video got posted on r/anime. They are still arguing in that thread lol.
The thing is, we dont have actual data from mappa's sales other than foot traffic to there site. Also do other studios do this exclusive special sale release on there websites? If so, wouldn't that suggest that all of chainsaw man's contenders have also sold more than reported by oricon?
Animation studios aren't usually part of the production comittee, so no.
@@MaxIronsThird Ufotable has 🗿
@@Razi_L quote usually unquote
Nah MAPPA is a much bigger deal than most other studios like Cloverworks, A-1, probably even KyoAni based on its influence and power. Very few others have their own studio stores. Also lack of official data basically throws everything in the drain
So after looking over on amazon jp (this is just an observation). I compared the chainsaw man blu ray with the bocchi the rock blu ray, since sales of these have been getting compared and chainsaw man has a 3 out of 5 star review were as bocchi has a 5 out of 5. Chainsaw man only has a standard blu ray and standard dvd listing. Bocchi has listings for the standard edition blu ray and two different special, more expensive editions that come with bonuses that are sold out from amazon jp. Just from an observational perspective, chainsaw man isnt recieved as well so maybe there is somewhat truth to the oricon data but well never know for sure.
The anime subreddit discussion made it seem doom and gloom about CSM’s popularity based on those oricon numbers
I remember seeing a post about how Blu-ray sales don't matter as much anymore (in regards to CSM), nice to see you made a video on that topic
I've said it on other channels, but it was certainly a failure in some aspects more than others. Streaming numbers show interest, but they don't translate into much interest in the show/product itself -- low disc sales -- or the original material, as seen by the very low increase to the manga sales, when it should've seen JJK, Tokyo Revengers, and so on numbers. When regarded as its own thing -- as it tried and failed to be -- it's debatable how well it did and we can only really speculate until numbers from MAPPA are released or until S2 is released and the staff isn't changed. But, in terms of getting more people interested in the original material, it was an utter failure because it was so different from the real thing.
It should've been the next Demon Slayer or JJK, or at the very least saw a similar increase that TR and SxF did, but it did not. It's a little silly to make a video that completely ignores that fact, focuses only on the disc sales and why they don't matter, but then end the video with "but they do matter, sometimes". I understand your points and reasonings, but this is a topic that needs to be broken down in-depth, rather than in a quick and somewhat misleading video. You did say you were biased, though, so I won't give you too much grief, but then that kind of makes the title "mythbusters" even more misleading. :p
Sht I might steal that title lol
@@BoobaMilkTea damn you everywhere lmao. His title? I didn't give one lol, or at least I did and didn't realize it.
This whole comment section is a copium containment board. Fucking hell man, the delusions these people trying to live by.
It is funny how people keep memeing 1735 about the supposedly based CSM but at the same time, trashy self aware isekai show like Eminence in Shadow got a S2 greenlit and a fucking mobage without even trying. What a time to be alive.
No it shouldn’t have been the next Demon Slayer, are you crazy? A creative manga is bound to have a controversial adaptation, and Chainsaw Man does not have the mass appeal of any of those shows. The problem with the adaptation is that people wanted a standard adaptation from a manga that was far from it, the adaptation proceeded according, and people got mad it wasn’t palatable aka generic enough.
It would never be the next Demon Slayer or JJK 😂 It’s like comparing Dune to Star Wars. Chainsaw Man just doesn’t have the mass appeal like a conventional shonen series. My teen nieces watch DS multiple times, but they’ll never get into CSM.
oh nononono ......lmaooooo
This is so funny. In the past (about 10 years), numbers like these couldn't impress anime fans, but now that these numbers have become basically meaningless, people are discovering this kind of benchmarking. Marvellous.
I wonder if MAPPA will release sales data of the BD set on its website.
Speaking of Mappa, what about the second season of Vinland Saga?
it's weird some news anime said chainsaw man is a failure due to low sale on dvd. like, that's it? there's more then that
I have to disagree with you on this one.
While it is true disc sales are no longer the majority source of the income, it still is the most profitable, a good analogy is like first class and business class of a passenger jet. Sure a full business and empty first will still turn you a profit, but it is still very bad since you failed to capture the market that was there. MAPPA itself is expecting at least 16000+, that is why they booked Tokyo Garden theater with 8000 people for two events, and put the tickets lottery in the disc sale.
Besides if this is any other anime the studio might be fine, but CSM happen to be the one where MAPPA is the only one in the production committee, or in other words they paid for everything from publishing ads to tv ads to even freaking billboards at Shibuya station. MAPPA needs every dollar possible and judging from the BD sale, they missed the mark hard 10 fold.
When you missed that hard, it is a commercial failure even if it is technically not in the red.
I've seen that analogy before, but it's absolutely bizarre. There are limited seats on a passenger jet. There are no open seats, just overall profits through many different sources. You could say the same about any show with any open revenue source.
Also, it's not exactly true that MAPPA expected 16000 vol. 1 sales. Those tickets can still just be bought... It's not an event exclusive to people with Bluray players.
@@TheCanipaEffect If people are not buying the BD, why would they spend more for an event ticket that otherwise would be cheaper with BD?
@@saturnv2419 Is it more expensive? I don't think they've announced door prices yet. You just get priority tickets if you buy the Blurays.
@@TheCanipaEffect Typically yes, Tokyo Garden Theater is pretty expensive.
Lycoris Recoil and Bocchi The Rock had huge sales in Blu Ray/DVD.
Aniplex gained two new cash cows last year that's for sure lol
(sorry for my bad english) Unrelated but a question. You think how big Mappa is gonna be (or manabu is gonna make it)? Because that seems like the direction he is looking for right now with a lot of money that they made. And also make more in-house departments (and their own teams in those departments) and also get independent. And he wants to make it soon as possible. (although it's Really impressive how he managed to make Mappa this big in such a short time) What do you think?
Bocchi the Rock! video when?
No, the ANIME isn’t a commercial failure in the FIRST season. But it’s certainly FAILED to capture core fan audience and shows the failure of the property as a whole (at least, to be able to be boosted by the anime like other SJ properties). BD/dvd sales may not mean much for anime production ledger, but it’s still an indication that core fans are less willing to shell money for csm goods, which may affect other streams of avenues for the property like live shows and other goods (this is also shown by the manga sales not as boosted like other popular titles). Most of the hype is from “international fans” of which many only know how to watch shit off 9anime. Mappa may made the money back for the first season from streaming sites but that failure may bite them later for next seasons as the property becomes less valuable and it’s been shown the hype isn’t worth THAT much.
It’s clear they’re trying to appeal to international audience and you could say that’s a success, but pretty likely at the cost of alienating the core japan market from which the core profitability of the property lies. In a way it’s kinda like Mappa made bank on the anime by sacrificing it even if it’s not their intention. I won’t say you’re coping but the focus is wrong.
I predicted that chainsaw man bd sales like these one would be going to be be 4k-7k.
There was a reason MAPPA decided to fund the anime themselves and it's because of this very situation. CSM money will come from the commercial and sponsorship side, to which the show will likely become a major force in. MAPPA will make a ton more money off CSM than they did with JJK.
When we understand how BD sales work, yes i can predict that chainsaw man can have 'low' bd sales. Demon Slayer S1 sold 11k in its first week and that show is a cultural phenomenon in Japan. Mushoku Tensei only did 4k in its first week and that topped the streaming charts in Japan during Part 2.
Stuff like Eromanga Sensei sells over 10k in BD sales, there's a very clear image of the people who buy them. also remember the MHA BD sales. Despite being one of the biggest franchises in Japan, the Anime only sells 2k at most in its first week (the movie does better but the series doesn't).
I predicted somewhere around 4k-7k, which will probably be the figure once sales from MAPPA's website are included or it is even higer than my estimation. It's irrelevant to the success of the show, MAPPA's profits will come from the commercial success of the show. Which it appears to be a powerhouse in.
demon slayer had the movie, and it sold around 1 Million blu rays
@@Zelldic27but ufotable is a part of production committee for ds. Mappa is The only member of production committee for CSM
@@Zelldic27 so what? i am telling that now bd sales does matter but it only tell a very skewed story.
since it only matter for fans who can afford it or want to went their way to buy blu rays.
Now, these new things like streaming is much better indication of success.
@@HerMi.T the point is that all the other popular anime still got at least 10k blu rays.
chainsaw man comes from a stupidly popular manga and is the only "big hit" anime with low sales like that, why does everybody say that is "normal"?
@@Zelldic27 no, they doesn't mushoku tensei sells 4k in it's first week. MHA same. it does tell something that how much their more 'crazy' or 'rich' fans like to invest in it or want to invest in it (here crazy means those who make their mind to buy this bd).
it also depends on what is the price of these bd and did these fans can afford to do that? BD sales is always very uneven source where even puopular things can sell less than needed. a popular one wouldn't be affected by it but more niche one would be affected by it because creator tend to see it's response through BD sales in past.
it is not crazy popular, other series like MHA, jujutsu kaisen are also crazy popular, even more than CSM. hype is not a bad thing, wrong expectations are bad thing. a reasonable hype (where you create hype by giving reason behind source's greatness and it's label as 'peak fiction') is very important for a series success.
infact, more underrated stuff should be hyped more. Also i even going to say CSM should be more hyped in a controlled and reasonable manner. By making it popular, CSM animators and creators already earned lot of money to make their risk less through bidding by streaming companies just like this video said.
Creating a popularity also help them in selling it's merch. they doesn't need to popularize it even in first place because CSM is already very popular in japan.
Japanese fans didn't like Nakayama's "cinematic" and serious direction for the anime, apparently it was also "too art-polished" for them and the color tone was too earthly and "dull-grey" for them. Those are the most common complaints I can find online I think.
Nakayama and the rest of the staff are not affected by any criticism or the remake petitions since it's just a loud minority which is reassuring, he will 100% return for season two. Fujimoto took part in the anime production's script behind the scenes and he chose Nakayama for a reason so we're in good hands for future production. The Blu-ray sales were a definite failure but it still succeeded as an adaptation worldwide.
From what I've read, it kind of seems like Nakayama is done with working for Mappa but I bet the next Chainsaw Man projects will maintain a similar art direction
Canipa good video, but i'm skeptical when I think about the manga sales simply NOT going up at all..
People have been measuring around when the anime started, but the jump actually happened earlier when the anime was announced.
Not to mention that the manga sales went up to 1 million+ every month since the anime, always being in the top 3 best selling of the month. 3.6 million of the 3.8 million sold in 2022 were during October-December, and 1 million was sold in half a month in January, ending with 1.6 million.
@@foxillian13 are you sure it wasn't number 2 behind One Piece.
I told people right before the anime was first announced that CSM will not blow up even slightly like JJK or Demon Slayer no matter how good the adaptation is.
CSM is a very weird ass series that already reached most of it's audience way before the anime so an adaptation wouldn't do much for it.
It did get some more fans after that probably are into series like this but didn't know about it, other than that most people don't like this type of manga, heck I've seen people that really loved the cinematic/more serious style of the anime and then jumped to read the manga and they don't like it.
Thanks for this insight, super welcome information! :)
Chainsaw Man is maybe one of the funniest anime project I've ever seen. It even got its own Mythbusting. It even lead to some incredible Ethnic wars on their folksub. Anyway, great video even though I think if fans and ppl in general were a lot more attentive to Canipa's Studio spotlights and Mythbusting, they won't be shaken by "guys who pretend that disc sales are a stable source of revenue and that disc sales charts are a thing" on r/anime. Anyway, it's up to ppl to believe what they wanna hear but personally, even though CSM wasn't even my favourite anime from 2022, I just want MAPPA and Nakayama to return with a sequel to just shut their mouth.
Anyway, those movie parody posters seem dope as hell.😻
Great video as usual! I'd also wager that Disk sales probably matter a whole lot more for smaller or lesser known projects, such as Lycoris Recoil. Though the show is big now, I imagine there being hesitation from most when bidding for the rights to stream an original Anime. And so, whether or not these smaller projects succeed, may still in part be measured by sales. However, with a big name like Chainsaw Man or Demon Slayer, you already know it's gonna succeed whether or not the Anime is good. Both series already had large following's before their Anime, and so they were guaranteed to gather in views regardless of the quality of the series itself.
A series like Lycoris on the other hand, attracts a more dedicated fan base, people who are more willing to buy merch of their favorite characters, just due to the character designs themselves. Whereas Chainsaw Man and other Shonen Anime/Manga, are targeting a more general audience. A young audience that may not have the money for merch, or an audience that enjoys the series casually but doesn't watch enough Anime to dedicate a spot on their shelf for it. Sure, there are those who are dedicated to these series enough to buy merchandise and Blu-Ray's, but these sales are a bonus, not a guarantee or necessity.
Unfortunately, this discussion has only come up due to the vocal minority that would love to see Chainsaw Man be a failure, either because they hated the Manga in the first place and didn't understand why it was big, maybe because they just hate what's popular and haven't even given the series a fair shot, or they think the Anime betrays Fujimoto's vision (Which it doesn't!). Regardless, when you're biassed already, it's easy to point and scream at any data that _might_ prove your point.
To these people: I would like to remind you, the Chainsaw Man Anime failing wouldn't mean that we got a more _Faithful_ adaptation, it would simply tell the industry that people don't want a Chainsaw Man Anime. This is the adaptation we have, so instead of trying to pick it apart, why don't you try enjoying it for what it is? Or look for its good qualities? There's only twelve episodes so far, and this is by far the weakest part of the Manga -- So let's just wait to see what comes next before we decide it's a bad adaptation.
Trust me, my two favorite Manga are The Promised Neverland and Tokyo Ghoul. I know what a bad adaptation is like!
I still wonder why sales of popular titles like My Hero Academia pales in comparison to something like Jujutsu Kaisen, which is also pretty popular.
On top of the basic shift from physical media to streaming, shows will definitely sell less physical media the more they appeal to a younger audience. So on top of not knowing the numbers on things like Mappa's direct sales, we can't evaluate accurately based on disc sales unless we know the age demographics of various shows' audiences.
age doesn't matter and sales do
I have no idea why people are saying this all of a sudden when the show is clearly extremely popular and everywhere. Even shows like Fire Force that had low Blu-ray sales got continued because they increased the sales of the manga.
Popularity doesn't mean shit when it comes to anime.
@@ErikaBernLambda When it comes to getting a second season it does.
@@xanthosamoni2072 Nope it doesn't and sales do.
@@ErikaBernLambda Sales #'s are an indication of how popular a product is. Popularity matters Frederica.
@@xanthosamoni2072 Popularity doesn't matter regardless
only sales do.
5:28 Does someone know where to watch the OVA of Onna no Sono no Hoshi ?
Also its not as if its a particularly great bd release anyway. I am not surprised as many people aren't paying for a more expensive Blu-ray for 3 eps with nearly no animation revision done on it. This probably results in less sales anyway. I think a better indication will be when all the disks are released
Well because The 8 first episodes are almost perfect. And the first 7 are super polished. 10 and 12 are almost perfect too
@@A1000-b9s 12 is almost perfect? Dude it was 80% cg fest of fight. Looked so meh compared to sequences you get in 4 and others. Not to mention the staff had like 3000 frames to animate within a week of airing it.
It needed revision.
@@gamebond6248 that information was fake. Even the leaker said that it was a joke. Something like this is not humanly possible. Also stop with this CGI=infenior bullshit. They even added 2d smears on top of it. There could be more 2d shots but they couldn't because The schedule caught up to them. Also they need to use CGI because The denji's chainsaws specially for the slower Scenes need to spin and that is not possible in 2d and this Camera movements is not also possible without CGI models
I dunno man. Why they throw discount left and right if the disc selling well? You throw discount to clear dead stocks or overstocked items. Not fast-moving items.
How much you pay for streaming services and how many that money had to be divided before the money reached to the studio?
You aren't thinking this objectively.
Chainsaw Man's anime was entirely funded by MAPPA themselves. There is no "divided money".
@@carloscauan7967 The streaming sites isn't offering MAPPA-only anime.
It'd be cool if you could make a video about the new slam dunk movie.
1735
+1000s moe on MAPPAs own site
I don't really care about bd sales just watch and enjoy both shows😒
Thank you for making this video, the amount of people online spreading these "facts" online so that they can justify their own premediated hate of the anime is ridiculous. It may not be the case for all of the haters of the show but a lot really wanted to use these Oricon sales as proof to fuel their distain for the adaptation and as proof that "Blu-Rays = popularity & success".
Manabu Ootsuka is one of the smartest business men in Japanese anime right now, for better or for worse. He would have not headed this project in multiple public viewings as well as spending as much time dedicated to a project he believed wouldn't benefit the company. While it's likely that CSM's BD sales overall, even including their hypothetical website sales, weren't as high as something like Bocchi the Rock they don't need to be.
Markets, to name a few, such as: "Cute Girl, Band, Ecchi, Hentai and Love Live!!" are ones where BDs have more a significant sales due to exclusive benefits like you said. And for what I believe to be that they still cater to a sub-culture that still values the Anime BD market. I believe there was an interview involving WIT or IG Port that discussed the weight of BDs on productions was lessening every year. I mean just look at Vinland Saga and AoT, recent BDs for them are nowhere near some of the Cute Girl shows.
Also damn, seeing these comments a day later and wow... It feels like a lot of you aren't looking to critically analyse why you think CSM could have financially failed. Instead a good amount of people are grabbing the news they saw on Twitter and using it to fund their fandom war, you people disgust me.
So this means that MAPPA made a ton of money even before the anime finished production?
hahahah no
Yup! For better or worse, big modern anime's profitability is often determined before it's released based on the licensing deals lined up. Same with everything on Netflix. They get a blanket payment that generally covers production costs outright. Of course, there are plenty of different production circumstances depending on the committee's expectations (For instance, Gundam profitability is largely determined by model kits+general Gundam brand exposure), but yeah, a lot of money already gets spent before anyone knows what the actual show is.
@@TheCanipaEffect ok that's good for me cause I been telling ppl that in my videos. But yeah that's bad in general imo
@@BoobaMilkTea Is it? I mean, the idea of anime having their profitability largely set in stone before we can see if it's good or not sounds pretty bad, but it's not like there was ever much correlation between profitability and quality.
@The Canipa Effect so basically if the show animation is bad like a 7ds for example the studio still gets payed?
One of my favorite and most important channels for me! Thanks!
Getting beat by a mobile game adaptation is crazy.
Define “beat” and/or actually watch the video
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. DVD sales aren’t as important IN JAPAN as they were 5 years ago. Oricon s not as relevant. Fans in their 20’s don’t have TV’s these days. They DO have Netflix.
COPIUM
@@ErikaBernLambda it’s a hell of a drug. But seriously DVD sales aren’t an indicator of much these days especially as more and more shows continue streaming on thier BD release dates. This never used to happen. I remember when Chainsaw Man news came out, I checked Netflix - it was still there. When Bochi’s BD dropped, it was gone from Netflix and so I had to use my VPN to finish it.
This subject is long overdue
LET'S GOOOO HE'S DOING IT
Oh I hope
As usual great video bro
This reminds me of when Internet chuds decided to post random photos of empty movie theaters to “prove” that Captain Marvel was flopping even as it was making absolute bank. People will use whatever BS they have to to push the narrative that their personal pet peeves represent the silent majority.
dude you can cope all you want about CSM the adaption flopped.
@@ErikaBernLambda The irony is palpable lmaoooooooooooooooooo
People spread this narrative? People actually say this? People actually say one of the most hyped up and successful anime of last year was a failure? Jesus Christ.
The hype was largely due to people loving the manga, people call the anime a failure. Not saying that's correct or not but hype doesn't play into this.
@@flockinify of course it does lmao, nobody would spend money on advertising if it didn't generate views
@@electricant55 Not my point. Obviously a ton of people are going to tune in because they loved the manga. When people say it's a failure they mean the actual thing disappointed people and it will fail to generate the same level of hype next time.
@@flockinify what? the point is about COMMERCIAL failure
@@electricant55 My point is when people call it a failure, they are *not talking about the initial viewership*. It's like a big blockbuster everyone expects to be good so everyone goes to watch making it a commercial success, but people finds it disappointing so they stop supporting it further. The latter half is what people are talking about, so you can't use initial hype as a argument for why they're wrong, regardless of whether they're actually wrong or not.
Great video.
This honestly doesn't make it any better. The whole thing about Oricon only taking from certain stores should also go for every other anime with a website. So for this instance lets say Bocchi, does 15k (I forgot the exact number) for vol. 1. That means Bocchi actually sold 15k + website sales. This would go for other big anime like SxF, Kaguya, JJK, Demon Slayer, etc. which STILL performed well on sales outside of their websites.
It might've done well from the website, but all around I'm still fairly certain it failed to perform to the same heights as it's big competitors since they also sold big from their websites.
And completely dismiss disc sales compared to streaming is asinine. Streaming has to be split up between more entities than just the studio receiving the full pay from discs. To apply the western ideology that "discs are old" to a country that still uses flip phones and fax machines is very brash.
This whole video seems like a bit of coping for the sales. It just felt like an argument with cherrypicked data and really nothing to back it up other than "trust me bro"
Canipa has deleted comments before, some that were as respectful as possible
But just because they went against the narrative of the video, they got 1984'd
"Streaming has to be split up between than just the studio receiving the full pay from discs" - that is very rarely the case, and definitely not with CSM where Mappa financed the entire project themselves. They directly receive both the streaming revenue and disc revenue. And even in a more traditional production committee situation, those would go to either the same or two different members of the committee depending on the situation, and either or neither of them could be the studio.
@@erufailon4723 is there any source you have to back this up? I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's basically the same thing Canipa did where you just say it and don't really provide any backing. Would be appreciated
I dont think they sell Bluray in BTR official site, but if it's Aniplex official store they does and release all of the BTR Bluray volume (1-6) simultaneously while there's only 1 CSM volume at the moment
@@euwi sure but even the 1 vol did 15k or so alone. The same thing applies to Lycrois Recoil doing about 26k with just 1 vol separately from the rest
Glad you make this video
There is many bad rumor around chainsaw-man anime, and how vocal people on social media kinda make me feel the anime not really welcomed in japan n just overated by non-japanese
Hope MAPPA can make it more greater in next season
It is so funny that BD sales suddenly lose its meaning when it comes to CSM unlike Demon slayer or JJK which sold about 20k. Plus CSM BDs offer buyers priority on an event with 8k seating... 8k ticket-quota?! Father, mother, sister, dog! Father, mother, sister, dog!
BD sales haven't had meaning for years. It's bizarre that I'm even making this video now when it would have been just as relevant half a decade ago.
@@TheCanipaEffect always had a meaning cope!!
@@ErikaBernLambda "if I say cope that means I'm right!!!!"
@@MayDay936 Ok bro proves he isn't coping.
Great video again man. I really hope we get that season 2, because I'm still a bit shaky when I don't see concrete sales numbers. Though this video has put me at a bit of ease. We've adapted the more mediocre parts and literally are just on the edge of when the story really starts to shine. Hopefully the production will be less of a mess though with season 2. Wit and MAPPA have been doing the most with their crappy schedules and reliance on out sourcing.
Edit: I've been curious to ask if you ever plan on making a full video on the production process for shows and what each role plays in it. I know you touch upon those topics in many videos, but are you interested in making a full length deep dive?
what mediocre part? don't go into that tangent again man? it is not mediocre part. ther are so many meanings and character growth for both denji and aki in this first season. i would even say that it shows the way how chainsaw man going to act from this point. thir are lot of things which even going to make later parts hit harder. Don't undermine this first season.
@@HerMi.T Well it's not like mediocre things don't have good value here and there, but the overall product remains the same. Pretty much everything until katana was neat, but really nothing blowing any minds aside from everything going on in Denji's head yet even that was mostly in its infancy. I give my hat to the fact that we do get good pay off to everything set up here, but you going really remember the meal of the appetizers do you? Besides, mediocre doesn't mean bad in the first place. I respect your take though. If that early portion is a masterpiece in your book then more power to you.
So your defense is a lot of people looked at the mappa store so maybe a lot of people bought it?
Probably, but he said "let's assume that CSM bd sales weren't still high"
The traffic of people accessing the payment info page went up even more (550%) in January which is an even better sign but sadly he didn't include it
@@mustarastas88 This video was quite rushed imo but I also believe that we learned all of the important stuff from all our previous videos.
While I'm not one of them, I can see why there are people who want Chainsaw Man to fail. It's been hyped up like the second coming of Christ for years and while obviously having a sizable audience, isn't for everyone. I've tried to get into the manga several times personally, and while not bad, it consistently failed to get me invested enough to continue past the 20th chapter or so. I could see people who've gotten caught up in the hype train only to be disappointed feeling that the success of it is unearned and wanting people to move on from it. The manga vs anime discourse seems odd to me though, given how well-produced the anime looks and the whole culture war aspect of it just come across as peak weeb/otaku cringe.
Ever considered that the hype comes from things that happen beyond chapter 20?
its not worth it, trust me bro, only good anime airing rn are AOT & vinland saga, watch those instead
@@carloscauan7967 Yeah, but then I remember that there are plenty of manga I've enjoyed far, far more than the first 20 chapters of Chainsaw Man from chapter 1 to the very end, and I move on to something else. A lot of the things that I've seen people praising that were in the first 20 chapters also felt underwhelming. Denji's overly grimdark backstory or Denji realizing that touching a boob once won't give him fulfillment in life, left no sort of impact for example. I also found the characters, which tends to be the most important aspect of a story for me, to be mostly bland, uninteresting and unlikable.
All in all, there seems to be a lot pointing to whatever's past chapter 20 simply not being worth it for me. I might check it out again in the future if I ever get the time and inclination to do so but I'm not exactly going to lose sleep over whether or not it suddenly stops being mid at chapter 21.
@@line4169 Bocchi clears all
Another week, another copium. Even made this part of your Mythbusters series, embarrassing.
Literally any other big anime right now has the BD sales to compare, so just accept that something went horribly wrong.
The director thought he was masaki yusa or something who will elevate the anime from the manga's level with his own style and techniques.
Ended up with 12 eps of incoherent flow, cringe drawn out comic(n't) scenes and a mishandled plot with no focus.
Sorry but you are no genius director.The people who are already fan of the manga doesn't want you to be taking risks and taking creative freedom, they just want you to stay true to the product you are supposed to adapt. Feel free to get as creative and bizarre as you want with your own content. But not with the adaptation of a manga that came out only a few years ago which is still relevant.
Don't fix something that doesn't need to be fixed. You'll just end up f**king it up.
And it's embarassing to admit it now, but CSM was being hyped up crazy. And mappa joined in too..with too much extra spendings like different endings, expensive marketing etc. The negativity the anime recieved ,got directed to the manga too. Before the anime the manga already had the reputation of something akin to a cult classic. But now you can't go on social media and call yourself a CSM fan without getting trolled
ain’t that serious bro, chill out the adaptation could’ve been worse
Yeah that's natural I think, companies want money, creators want creativity and fans want their expectations meet or just want to enjoy. I agree with you and I like the adaptation. It has the right amount of essence of the manga but well I think fans just expect so much that I don't think any anime adaptation would meet this even it's one of the greatest mangas.
I think there were some expectations like it will somehow match Ufotable level
The Anime was too much Overhyped
So naturally there were higher expectations 🤕
but i think it reaches the expectation.
@@aniketghorai8386 nothing is overhyped. i would say chainsaw man should get even more hyped than it does. ofcourse, bad expectation is a thing but it is not related to hype. it is related to how you relate that hype and make your own expectations. a responsible hype is important to create by fans.
@@HerMi.T if you haven't noticed the hype and craze then it's not my fault
I go to university in Tokyo, and basically all of my friends have watched and loved chainsaw man. I'm genuinely curious as to where and how anybody got the idea that the show is hated here, and I wish to know if they had any sort of insight into the reception of the show in Japan before spreading such nonsense.
Popularity doesn't mean shit in japan and only sales do.
@guy x joy bro you wanna keep coping
People love to hate about this stuff,maybe they are the ones who hate it so saying th their dislike seems more justified in their minds
@@ErikaBernLambda Do you have Downs Syndrome?
Chainsaw Man is pretty bad...
And?
Oh look look, another UA-camr video of some random youtuber trying to assert his thoughts with half-assed informations and alot of personal bias as facts instead of making it clear its a personal opinion.
Mothers Basement 2.0 in the making
hey look a youtube comment ahole
What
As if The Canipa Effect and Mother's Basement aren't the most well researched aniyoutubers out there...
Edit: that's not to say they cannot be biased. Everyone has biases.
What did he say that is wrong ? The Canipa Effect has some of the most researched videos into the japanese animation industry that you can find out there so he is pretty reliable imo
You maaad lmao
This mappa store cope is hilarious. No cared about the studio's store sales for BDs until csm stans needed to do damage control after their anime's BDs flopped hard.
As I said in the video, whether it did or did not sell big physical numbers isn't really relevant to the show's success. I'm not doing damage control for my 6th favourite show of 2022 lol.
@@TheCanipaEffect a cope is still a cope, mappa is deciding factor & japanese people have voted with there wallets.
If this was bleach they wouldn’t be allowing sales on the Perriot store as an excuse. It’s funny which shows people decide get to have excuses and passes. People should just take the L you gassed up something that didn’t go as well as you planned move on.
Pierrot has a store?
People accessing payment info page on MAPPAs site increased by 550% in January when the BD came out. Even if only a 3rd of those NEW people bought the CSM BD it's still 4-5k (on top the sales everywhere else)
So Bocchi and Lycoris Recoil still did kick Chainsaw Man in the nuts 😅
chainsaw man is just much much bigger than bocchi the rock and lycrois recoil. i am not saying to undermine these fantastic series.
@@HerMi.T No what I mean is that Chainsaw Man was so popular because there was a lot of hype backing it up the manga community who had read the manga hyped it a lot Mappa too promoted the show as if a masterpiece movie was about to be released however to be honest the actual good parts of CSM actually come after all this the Second Season will actually be what I would call a great watch first season is just building groundwork for second season compared to CSM now both Bocchi and Lycoris Recoil gave the viewers a great show to watch which felt complete and satisfying to watch that's all I am saying I don't consider CSM bad or anything I consider it a technical masterpiece
In BDs, sure. Not really anywhere else.
@@Aman_Mondal yeah, i agree with you that bocchi the rock and lycoris recoil in first season is probavly better for many people than chainsaw man first season.
But don't undermine chainsaw man's first season. it is bomb girl arc which make it great. i would call it great from get go (ofcourse i sound like fanboy but listen my reasoning).
Chainsaw man first season already started the development of denji and aki. it creates the dilemma of denji thinking that he is not good person since he doesn't care for others. ofcourse that is not true but denji thinks like that.
As compared to him, katana man has someone to care for and avenge for. denji on the other hand isn't even that much sad for pochita (according to him). he thinks in back of his mind that katana man deserves to live his normal life than him. he does kill others but denji also does this for his dream.
katana man on the other hand does it for 'others'. that is the struggle we introduced here. even though he doesn't really succumbed to it. in fact denji is the someone who understands other very well. that's why he doesn't feel for revenge or cry for someone's death. he understands that yakuza doing their things for their own dreams. that's why he doesn't hate them.
katana man has this hypocritical angry attitude because he thinks others as lesser than him and his yakuza. he is brainwashed by his grandpa. he care for him as a idol than as a person. that hypocrite is reveled in fight against chainsaw man (i am talking about 2nd one because that person death in first death can be attributed to denji as well according to him). he uses katana's ego to defeat him and show his conviction and his ability to understand others and adapt according to it.
katana's discrimination toward others is the reason along with himeno's death that he wants to punish him by kicking his nuts. he adapt according to situation and learn how to accept and respect other's emotion. Similarly, their is development for aki to not take life as serios as he think always and enjoy his life as much as he can and make others life happier. that's why he quit smoking. you will see this directly in 'first' episode of season 2.
I can also talk about that boob arc of denji in first three episode which teaches him the lesson to understand yourself better and create goals according to it or the difference between a platonic and romantic relationship. and how understanding others as a person and your emotions toward others is the first step to create a genuine caring relationship of any kind toward others.
What i mean is that first season is perfect for developing their characters to grow them and create anticipaion for payoffs for their growth in later season. if you watch or read season 1 again after completing series, you will find these small details of characterization and development which would payoff in later season.
One more thing, it being hyped is a great thing which attract others to watch. hype is never a bad thing, wrong expectations. infact, i would say that chainsaw man should be even more hyped, also underrated series should be more hyped than it is.
This season is a introductory but also the one which already started their development and growth which will be pay off in coming arcs and lead their further growth.
This
The cope is crazy
internet review bombing is easy to do but its fails riddiculous but if the sales and critics by viewers succeed than its more succesful for the studio and the studio can do more
COPE: The video.
Please feel free to explain:
@@lebyandsmartiel318 I shouldn't seeing as how Canipa did ommit a lot of info. But here are some points:
1. Disc sales were on the borderline of being atrocious, while it's true that disc sales have been downward for years, now the acceptable sales are in the 2k-5k, CSM was a little below that.
2. The increase in sales of the manga was dissapointing, the BIG success of the season was Blue Lock, which is a little fun because while CSM spent a lot in marketing, BL achieved it just by airing alonside the WC and make the incredible Japanese team performnce boost the sales for them.
I do believe that CSM was profitbale, calling it the succeses that MAPPA was expecting it's really dubious. Also, I only talked about hard data we have of Oricon, while Canipa was speculating a lot on this video, he also shoot himself in the foot with the Lycoris Recoil comparison lmao.
@@Daidan21 Unlike a Demon Slayer or JJK which are Shounens who pull in huge audiences Chainsaw Man is something that only gathers a small group of fans. Going off Oricon's sales we could say its about 2.5k but this shouldn't dismiss the fact that the biggest place to purchase the BDs was on the studio's on website and that was just not accounted for at all.
Even if they did matter, do you think that the dozens of companies paying to stream and air CSM are paying pennies for it? Ootsuka is a man of strict profits and I'd be surprised if someone as strict as him would aim for anything else.
@@Daidan21 According to the stats it it only looks like Blue Lock sold more because its sales are spread over 5 volumes vs just one volume for Chainsaw Man. If you're going volume to volume BL sold an average of 700k copies per volume vs CSM's 3.5million.
Both are very respectable numbers though. And they're both getting absolutely crushed by SpyxFamily.
This video is full of cope and the adaption flopped no matter how popular it is in the western world compared to Japan.
Chainflopmans desperate to convince everyone it’s not a flop they need to make UA-cam videos about it. Boccichads keep winning
"Bocchichads".
criiiiiiiiiinge
@@electricant55 bojack horseman avatar
@@DaiQilin best television show in the western history, what about it
This isn't /a/.
It's because CSM compete in the same season with BTR 😂
Bocchi fans being unable to watch the video before running their mouth, classic
Did you even watch the video lol ?
Username checks out
Let's gooo 😂, I know this will catch some
full cope on this video lmao
Than you for the explanation!
Wow random people on social media sure got to you really badly huh?
bruh, man's snuggled literally sack full of copium!
I need your perspective. Do you think Chainsaw Man was a economic failure that will be shelved and lead to some layoffs?
Copium
Channel
its just pure shitposting
Support
I started the season with dread for Bleach and thinking that at least CSM will be fun. Instead I was bored of CSM and found Bleach extremely entertaining. I hadn't read the manga and I wasn't on the hype train. I was just going "let's check what all the fuss is about" after missing out on Demon Slayer when that aired.
I don't know if it's a matter of the quality of the adaptation or the material itself not clicking with me, but I found the anime quite bland and wasteful of its characters. I didn't find the episodes all that interesting, as I found them quite bland and basic.The animation looks awkward to me. There's just something about the movement that looks off and sometimes action scenes have 0 impact. Voice acting was fine. Nothing ontable there.
To me the anime was a resounding MEH, with some parts that stood out as weird, which prompted me to go and read the first few chapters of the manga after finishing the anime. I really only read what was covered in the first 3 episodes and overall I'd say that I prefer the manga. Some things are cut and moved around in the anime and I think the manga did it better.
Ultimately for me the show breaks down like this
- ok voice acting
- animation that looks both well done and janky at the same time so a net 0 for me
- uninspired animation style
- weak action scenes
- waste of oportunity to go for some visually creative fight scenes or stylize the action a hell lot
- Aki is the only interesting character so far, as Power just hangs around and doesn't do anything and Denji doesn't seem to have much going on either. Aki is the only one that we learned a lot about and developped. We learned stuff about Denji, but he didn't develop and Power is completely surface level.
- don't recall anything from the OST standing out
Overall to me CSM is a solid 4 or 5 out of 10. It's ok in most areas. In some it did better than average and in others it did worse. Based on the anime I don't understand what the hype for CSM is. It just doesn't have a strong identity in my opinion. It just is. Which is kind of idsappointing because I thought something called CHAINSAW Man would be a lot more fun and creative
It was unique and a lot of fun, and well paced with a plotline that feels like it exists
Then came Mappa with their smartass director who thought he could do better than the manga with his own style by abandoning fujimoto's style of dry/ wacky humor and quick but efficient storytelling - the only reasons, otherwise an average story like CSM worked so well. And you ended up with 12 eps of nothing but - Abysmal flow and over exaggerated comic scenes and dialogue delivery. The director seems like he is an autistic person who read the manga and didn't understand which scenes are for comic purposes and which scenes are serious. So he made the anime in his own perception where the joke scenes were taken seriously and dragged on to the point they become cringe while he didn't take the character work seriously at all.
Most of the fights were never amazing in the manga so I'll pass on that. The ost was also very underwhelming for an anime that spend so much extra on ending songs
I'm sorry but how is it a failure? Blu-Ray Sales? Manga Sales? Both are irrelevant, because 1- MAPPA owns CSM 100% so all the revenue from CSM airing and the hundred different ways from merchandises and MANY more things all goes back to MAPPA, which means, unlike when the Studio isn't a part of the production committee, Blu-Ray sales aren't the only sourse of revenure they have next to the money they were originally paid to make the anime. 2- Magna sales also doesn't matter because Shuisha isn't a part of CSM Production Committee (Which, again, is 100% produced by MAPPA) so Shuisha is more than happy with any sales at all because they didn't pay a single dollar to make the anime.
Edit: Sorry sorry, I wrote this before watching the video, so I assumed you're going with the internet flow and just point out why CSM is a failure, but I still believe that the points I mentioned are true and are enough to shatter this false information that is being spread around for trolling sake or because they don't know what they're talking about.
@Brandon Gray sweetheart I did watch the video and ACTUALLY apologized at the end. But the fact that you didn't read my apologies means that you didn't fully read my comment till the end.
@@scythe9734 Based on the time displayed on my end, they replied to your comment just a minute after you posted it, so the apology you edited in could've been made after they replied. There's really no need to try getting a one-up on them lol
@@EmeraldNero I was in the middle of writing the comment, I wasn't gonna stop there because what I said is still true and doesn't contradict the points in his video at all; It just add to them.
@@scythe9734 this is the old just nuck it time
@@nate567987 Uhhhhh, I didn't understand a thing you said, please clarify a bit more.
NGL i after i watched chainsawman, i just thought that it was only mid and the advertising overhyped it. chainsawman was just very lucky it didn't had a bad anime adaptation.
You can just as well argue it was really unlucky that it only got 12 episodes. Even fucking JJK got 2 cours. Nobody was hyping up the first arcs
Unfortunately it only really starts to shine after where the anime ended. The places the manga went literally had my jaw on the floor. But part of the narrative of CSM is pretending to be a typical shonen jump series and getting you comfortable in the well-worn tropes before blowing everything to pieces.
The cg really killed it for me, the Mangas unique Look was completly missing
@@RADkate CGI was whatever, wouldn't be as noticeable if the fights weren't so drawn out compared to the manga and if the OST wasn't so weak
@@electricant55 The fights are not drawn out at all. At best they just extended for a few minutes.
Canipa You have changed 😂🤣
....how?
@@carloscauan7967 His voice Sounded very agressive this time 😬?
@@aniketghorai8386 Because misinformation is annoying and damages the modern anime community's understandings of basic principles
@@lebyandsmartiel318 his previous myth Busters videos didn't sounded that much agressive
That's why I have said it!
The series is very overrated but I have anime and manga on same levels ngl
I don’t watch CSM just yet but here my guesses on why it a commercial failure and didn’t liked by many Japanese
1- I watched a lot of clips and they gave me some Tarantino and 90 American vibes especially they are animating the anime like a western cinematography style ( which is I liked very much ) but I have a feeling that Japanese are not used to it and didn’t follow like anime and Japan feels
2-Probably Denji is a way different to your typical shonen MC like Luffy, Naruto, Goku etc and he is more relatable.
3- maybe it too gory for some people?
...did you watch the video?
And 4, apparently some people took something the director said to hearth when in an interview he said that he didn't want to make it like a normal anime, or something like that.
Tho, chainsaw man really wasn't ment to be popular, not to spoil things but is h0rny af, has a lot of gore, some really disgusting scenes that I could barely watch in the anime. It is an amazing piece of fiction, great storytelling, amazing characters, some scenes just break you down, then rebuild you just to be broken again, especially with the manga's p1 ending, but it is not ment for everyone
@@Ark_knight0 but isn’t Chainsaw Man a really successful manga?
lmao, talk about being wrong
cope lil bro
@@ChefRyoshu lmao, did you see the movie trailer? Straight up Manga art style lmao
@@suuslime3908 ngl u right lmao
Did people actually like chainsaw man anime? well I guess that doesn't surprise me, people love bad anime...just look at the top 100 list on MAL haha...legend of galactic heroes, gintama, steins gate, code geass, mushoku tensei, jujutsu kaisen, the tatami galaxy, ....all really bad anime that just goes to show trash taste is real.
Just say you have different taste than others, man, I don't like some of those animes you listed either, but we all have different opinions 😭
Ok I'll bite, because you clearly want someone to, I'm curious about what you consider good anime.
That's not even bait, that's the whole fishing pole
@@jessip8654 What I consider good anime is anime that has a good well written story...and chainsaw man ain't it. Plus chainsaw man is for edgy teens that are h*rny and think toilet humour and pervy characters are funny
@@temutemacular I don't use opinions though, I only speak facts. Opinions are subjective, facts are not subjective. There is non biased ways to determine if an anime is good
Story
Characters/character development
World building
Animation
Consistency
Foreshadowing
Music
Voice acting
Balance
Pacing
Flaws
Fanservice
Plot holes
Fillers/flashbacks
Originality/creativity
How well it ages
How well it follows the source material/manga
Themes
Enjoyment (subjective)
Bad Arcs
Exposition dumps
etc...these are non biased ways to judge if an anime is good with the exception of enjoyment only that's the only subjective thing.
All those anime I mentioned they all lack in some of these area...story & good likeable characters are the 2 most important things out of all those criteria. It can lack in other areas but if it doesn't have both good story and good characters it's trash.
no one thought that it was a commercial failure. stop making up fake people to be mad at
Bruh, I scrolled through thousands of posts that said that chainsaw man is a failure when the blu rays sales were announced. Almost every post I saw on reddit, every single comment in yt, and, of course twitter
@Incel Productions yeah thanks for clearing that up incel productions
@Incel Productions i said it because i cant take that user name seriously
Csm fans stay coping lol
u didn’t even watch the video lol
The director said they needed tens of thousands of bds to break even. They only got 2 thousand. Streaming isn't profitable and cannot offset the massive production and marketing budget. Anime doesn't the work the same as original programming where what is greenlit is based on viewership
Citation needed
@@mustarastas88 read the mal threads. 2k sales cannot cover the marketing, 13 Ed's, cgi modeling. The amount of figures is not much compared to the light novel series
@@mustarastas88 mappa expected it to perform at jjk 20 k which is why they made the gamble of fronting the entire production. It doesn't matter if people like it cuz it will lose money. Just like black adam. A lot of the "audience" probably bought nothing from it and illegally pirated it just like how dc fans don't show up to threatres
Provide a link or somewhere where the director said that. A MaL doesn’t mean anything
Also, acting as if BDs are the only way they would get money or break even shows you didn’t pay attention to the video and don’t understand the industry. BDs are barely 2% of the market in the anime industry. Merch, licensing, streaming, and collabs matter WAY more and provide WAY more profit, making a total of 87% combined (merch alone being ~24% and streaming/overseas being ~48%). And CSM did amazing in all of those. The licensing alone probably made them break even.
Also also, that 2k is only the first volume in the first place.
@@foxillian13 Doesn't mean shit, and BDs matter more than merch.
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