It's horrible living with a narcissist, especially the covert hidden narcissist, which can turn very malignant, very fast, and their dangerous to be around. Great podcast on this topic.... Thank you...
Now in my 50’s I realize that I have had many of these people in my life, including parents. I had a difficulty saying no to people or letting them know when they hurt me. Sweeping all their shortcomings under the carpet and a high tolerance for their bs, because I loved them. But I realize now - it was not love. I was lacking the love of myself. My low self esteem due to my childhood and never being told or showed that I was loved as a child. My little sister was treated differently, so from a young age I felt low of myself and looked for love in all the wrong places. I was a narcissists dream! Better to learn late than never. I am at peace now and I am loving myself more because God loves me and I am grateful to him for taking me away from my nasty ex narc.
Great description. I’ve been around narcissists all my life and have been often researching to understand them and how to recognise them before it’s too late. I was married to a person who definitely has npd. They are never wrong, never apologise and won’t tolerate even marriage counseling. They are extremely dangerous and will destroy their own children. I narrowly escaped death, as did my children.
@@markmuller7962my mother is a covert narcissist. She destroyed our family and us the kids. The closest thing to a narcisist is a demon. These things are no human.
My experience with ADHD myself and friends that are ADHD. We seem to be incapable of being a narcissist. Unfortunately, given our sensitivity, we are probably more susceptible to the emotional manipulation by a narcissist. I've been out of a relationship with a narcissist for a while now. It sucks I wasted 13 years of my life on this person, but it has taught me what to look out for in the future.
It depends on the person. My ex was NPD but also had ADHD. His father was a full blown narcissist as well. My 23 yo son has ADHD but is not a narcissist so it really does depend on the individual.
@@Ishtar2419my ex too. He took vyvanse than would drink. The cruelty!!! Psycho!! Father, baaad, mum too... I see it in his daughter. I was around her thru teens & early 20's. Sooo sad.
I was married to a covert narcissist for 15 years.I had to heal and walk away.Thankful for this teaching..Being afraid is not an option when leaving a narcissist.
This confirms exactly what I thought about my ex-boyfriend he was an extreme narcissist, who managed to gaslight me on a regular basis to the point I thought I was going crazy. It took all my strength to get away from him, once I finished with him. I had endure him stalking, telephoning me, constantly, the list is endless, set fire to my bins, burnt the clothes I bought him outside my home, put my telephone number in Kings cross phone booths. He put excrement on my door, graffitied outside my home. Beat me up on the street daily until I managed to get an injunction then he still drove through my road. I started dating someone else for protection, but he tried to smash my new boyfriends car, but got my neighbours instead. Please listen to the red flags, you are not imagining it, be strong enough to leave.
Wow that's crazy stuff, it's crazy how long they can hide who they are. I was married for 8 years before I found out the truth and who she really was, because she doesn't want to be exposed any further she tried to have me murdered multiple times
From my experience, narcissist needs lots of admiration and is visibly «teacher» vibe. This is a person who consider himself the judge. You will have to chase him. Also depends how you look like (if beautiful) or what you have that he can benefit from ( access to good things in life). You will sense across few dates already they will spit unkind comments but blame you to be unkind. Its intuitive. You will feel it. It will confuse you. Specially if you are adhd or depressed, you will feel guilty and not deserving of him. If you feel some of this, run. Silently.
I am autistic and ADHD. We are prey for narcissists. She was an abusive and violent drunk. I was assaulted, thousands of dollars of my property destroyed. She ignored restraining orders and existing court orders and she still stalks me. She is the worst thing that ever happened to me. I am not the same person anymore. I relived my traumatic childhood all over again. She groomed for a year before she came in for the kill.
@@Camposdarkoautistic people have high emotional empathy just have a harder time expressing it in a way that is deemed socially appropriate in real time before getting a chance to process things. You are perpetuating outdated myths by saying that and I kindly suggest you educate yourself. Things have moved on a lot from when people used to think that and it all stems from faulty tests that were done. We deeply care about the wellbeing of others but can often, in the moment, not notice if we are saying/doing something that could be hurtful to others but once we are made aware of it or realise it ourselves afterwards…we are the first to apologise, take accountability and try to make amends.
I’ll also add that a large portion of us (myself included) have been manipulated by narcissists exactly because of our naivety and tendency to take what people say at face value. Difficulty reading between the lines and naturally assuming that others are well intentioned and have no hidden agenda like ourselves is exactly what leads to these situations. People who say otherwise are either just ignorant or are narcissistic themselves and trying to justify their poor treatment of autistic people
@JL-dl8nr thank you. 21yr old daughter has adhd and autism. Family consider her cold and lacking empathy. She is such a sweet person and extremely generous to her sister and l. People certainly need to educate themselves on the subject.
I am quite disappointed, this is a podcast with rare opportunity to discuss dynamics of relationship between ADHD and NPD partners. Because how these traits connect in a specific way, and such relationships happen more often than between ADHD and types of people. In particular, lack of empathy in NPD person makes them seek and value partner with ADHD who is extra sensitive.
It's a very deep subject so perhaps you could make a request directly about this. This psychologist comes back regularly so perhaps they will do a deeper exploration of what you are asking.
Correction, Narcissus fell in love with his *REFLECTON* ( (the image) of himself, not of himself per se. In reality, the narc hates himself so and builds a fake persona which he "loves" more than anything.
My mother is a narcissist, and she does apologize, but it’s only in word and she makes you feel guilty at the same time. She will also revisit the apology she had to make for years to come.
This discussion is very deceiving. Someone with ADHD can also have NPD. Plus Narcissistic people and people with NPD are very common ( the reason why statistics says it's just 1% it because these people don't go to therapy and they don't get diagnosed) from my experience I would say it's 50% of the population - so be careful who you let into your life
Important to keep in mind every person can be narcissistic as it's simply a behavioral trait, we've all been narcissistic at times just like we've all been greedy, deceptive or selfish at times in our lives. It's just the frequency and intensity that vary, I guess. For someone with NPD the traits and symptoms would have to be so severe it significantly impacts their life (definition of disorder). I was curious myself to the prevalence of co-morbid ADHD and NPD so had AI run some quick estimates. Estimating the population percentage for each condition: _Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD):_ - Estimated prevalence: 0.5% to 6.2% (average: 3.3%) [1] _Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD):_ - Estimated prevalence: 8.1% to 9.5% (average: 8.8%) [2] Now, estimating the population percentage with both co-morbid conditions: _Assumptions:_ - The co-occurrence of NPD and ADHD is higher than the product of their individual prevalences (due to shared risk factors). - Using the average prevalence values: 3.3% (NPD) and 8.8% (ADHD). _Estimated co-morbidity rate:_ - Conservative estimate: 0.5% to 1.5% (assuming a modest increase due to co-occurrence) - Liberal estimate: 2% to 4% (assuming a higher increase due to shared risk factors) Please note that these estimates are rough and based on available data, which might have varying methodologies and population samples. The actual prevalence and co-morbidity rates may differ. References: [1] Stinson, F. S., et al. (2008). Prevalence, correlates, disability, and comorbidity of DSM-IV narcissistic personality disorder. Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, 69(7), 1033-1045. [2] Polanczyk, G., et al. (2014). The worldwide prevalence of ADHD: A systematic review and meta-regression analysis. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, 55(3), 345-353.
Id argue that the numbers are even higher. To many variables. Id further propose that the baseline has shifted so much that the are tons of people, who by current society's standard would go by unconsidered and under the textbook radar because so much more is generally accepted. Same thing with regards morals being not only flexible but ambiguous the extreme ends of both good and bad have shifted and when the majority of society lives or lived in the gray area. That once the extremes shifted what was once good is frowned upon and people are farore accepting and understanding of the bad. This skews the gray area by so much. Effectively make so muchore justifiable. Same things with narcissistic traits and since those traits are reinforced more now than ever it stands to reason that under current diagnosis standard many go unchecked. Just a thought. 😊@@taz.e-riding
Right before he said 1% he explained why you think it's more than that. No, just like not everyone who gets sidetracked is not ADHD, same thing for true narcissism. If you've ever been in a intimate relationship with one of these people you'll find out what it really is..and tbh I guarantee you wouldn't be saying that, and no... I don't think a lot of people are like that. I think there is a lot of features concerning western society, that are very narcissistic... Social media for instance, government for instance. But I don't think a lot of people embody it.
@@Siegefya fact is that statistics dictate it is on the rise clinically. Regardless of anything else we (not just the westerners) as a whole are being brought up and raised to embodies these characteristics. Admire those who are that way and put value on self and material things. Which devalues humans which only serves to bolster what is slowly being engrained upon us. It has been happening for some time now and was kicked into high gear with the onset of social media. Like it or not is the direction that the world population is going. As with anything there are outside group or smaller populations that don't subscribe to this and you would be right to point that out. Sadly though that smaller population or group used to be those with narcissistic traits. They didn't used to be so common place. It has been engineered as such forced subtly over time. To the masses little by little until it is so socially normal that it isn't even noticed until it is too late.
Love bombing is usually characterised by acts and expressions that take normal infatuation to the extreme. It also happens too soon for there to be a plausible real connection. Signs youre being love bombed if anything like this happens after one or two dates: - They say you're the most amazing person ever. -They say you're the one -They say they can't live without you -They ask what you want for your birthday -They start talking about moving in together/kids/marriage. -They turn up at your house so often they've practically moved in without a discussion about it (flip side, they invite you round so often that you feel like you've moved in accidentally). -They buy something, or take you on an expensive experience or holiday that's way beyond anything you'd expect after such a short tkme knowing each other. - They (a woman) want to get physical very very fast, and combine it with one or two of the other signs. Women can have high sex drives and want sex, but social pressure against this is still VERY strong. It's very unusual to find a woman who is sexually aggressive very early but also claims to want a serious relationship. And I'm not talking about just being open to it, I mean she's pushing for it, like throwing herself at you so much it feels like you're in a movie. -Source: was love bombed, sex bombed, and trapped by a covert narc for 6 years. I kid you not, with no flirting or foreplay, i went over to help her fix something and when i was done she threw herself on me. I was a virgin. I had no chance 😢
I’ve been studying Covert Narcissism for months and I’ve heard from a very well known specialist that 1 in 6 people are. Definitely the majority don’t get diagnosed but there are many many people out there who are.
Every single thing in this discussion happened in my last relationship. I have experience of overt narcissists, but not covert. It took me a long time to see what was happening. I feel battered and bruised, confused and misunderstood (everyone thought he was handsome and charming). Thank you for this video.
Covert is horrendous. My dad is on that side, and trust me, watching him in his relationship with my mum really messed up my idea of what was the right and wrong approach for such a long time. Luckily my mum’s a huge empath, and I absorbed most of my traits for treating people from her. I feel so sorry for anyone who has had to deal with a covert narcissist in their lives - it’s truly awful. And sadly, the victim is often not believed as the narcissist is so wonderful to the outside world.
What a brilliant talk, Dr Mark Rackley should be doing his own podcast, and the questions you asked were brilliantly relevant in so much as most people can identify with those particular sessions. Food for thought!
I listen to him but he is not clear enough. He speak too much as a theorist. I don’t find him practical at all. I wish it was different especially that he is a narcissist himself
Meanwhile he has zero idea of the link between ADHD and pathological narcissism hence the crazy amount of misdiagnosed ppl. Also he has some bizarre non-scientific (and extreme, often in a negative way) takes on NPD but yea, overall a knowledgeable professional if you know how to filter out some of the extremes taking into account that he's NPD himself alongside a eastern-europe very conservative or old mindset
@@ceciliamac4283Well that's his role and specialization, I'm sure there are other sources more on the practical spectrum if you need them (most people don't cuz we're not therapists)
@@markmuller7962 Thank you for your feedback. We need the practical language even when we are not therapists. My mother is stuck in a 45 years marriage with a narcissist and I know it would help her. Best,
I'm not sure if the doctor is being accurate when it comes to NPD. Something to bear in mind is that most personality disorders are ego syntonic. That means that the traits align with the way the person feels they can and SHOULD be. That almost certainly goes double for most people with NPD because by definition they feel like they're the best thing since sliced bread (if we leave the deeper subconscious fact that they hate themselves for the time being). So as far as NPD goes they often appear mentally unstable, but they FEEL fine. Oh they'll complain about anxiety or depression, but not about the actual symptoms of their NPD because it's literally their personality. They feel like they're justified in those behaviours. They will leave a dozen shattered relationships and shattered people in their wake. But no amount of arguing will convince them that they're the ones responsible for that. They'll just insist that they're unlucky and bad people always find them. Highly narcissistic people are the classic "all mt exs are crazy" sort of people.
They don't need a reason to attack. Nothing you do will make them more or less attack you. They always feel the need to attack. Everything makes them feel inadequate. Even with yiur absence, that emptiness needs to be filled and they will stalk you, harassing you endlessly. You just blink and they have already been attacking. Their brain is wired wrong.
I was hoping this might touch on the higher rates of diagnosis of ADHD comorbid with NPD. Even so, there's tons of excellent, useful information in here.
Validation + RSD + Perfectionism + masking + low self-esteem 🤷♀️ Very much milder (and different) than NPD tho, especially on how deeply rooted and delusional the actual NPD is (and that's why it's considered chronic) Edit: It can be severe in late diagnosed tho and these cases can easily be misdiagnosed as NPD
@skippy6462 I think that is possible. I was in a relationship with someone who fit that type. I know ADHD well. It's in my family, and I have many adhd friends. It was a really difficult and confusing predicament to find this extra dimension in someone with adhd. I fell right into it as I am myself a rescuer. I have been working on that. It was pretty awful. I don't know if it was npd or bpd for absolute sure, because they look similar from the outside, and anyway, I can't really diagnose. However, there is plenty of compelling evidence. It was heartbreaking and quite chaotic, though.
@@marcuscosgrove9431 I feel this comment so deeply. I’m not sure what the diagnosis is but my gut has been worried almost since the beginning. I’m a rescuer too apparently thats what my mum always says! I feel compelled to help but also frozen by fear. I feel trapped. I also want to see this person fulfilled and happy but I’m not sure if that’s even possible. I feel monitored.
@@Chicky1234-m3f rescuing is a dangerous game. I usually don't set out with rescuing in mind, but I will always help anyone who needs it. In a relationship this can end up with all kinds of screwy dependencies. This attracts a certain type, and in the end it leads to devaluation and discard. It has taken me a very long time to work that out.
I would also be interested in a talk on the differences / similarities between narcissism and the dismissive avoidant personality attachment style. The two present in a very similar way and have a similar effect on others I think.
Narcissist will adapt bc they mirror others. They WILL go to therapy "for the other" . Few professionals can see thru them and they boast of beign smarter than therapist. They also change therapist often if they are in danger of exposure.
I had a narcissist as my previous boss and he did not like me at all. Long story short, I no longer work there and my reputation is in tatters. They are incredibly dangerous!
I'm an Objectivist and have defended rational narcissism for over a decade, as it is a necessary part of rational selfishness within the philosophy (I think this is even more important in the default guilt setting adhd people start life with). I think their needs to be a distinction between the two, as we need this is our defense more than most. We need to center ourselves, so not to be taken advantage of and have a proper self-esteem.
Interesting to listen to. My ex was definitely a narc. Short relationship which turned out to be her looking for someone to go on holiday with (she had zero friends). However, I've realised I have narc traits. I do like validation and know I need to work on it. Just glad to be self-aware enough to know I don't have NPD 😅
Some level of narcissism is normal and necessary and we all need validation from others given we’re social interdependent animals. Some of us are too dependent on outside validation though which can make us lean towards co-dependency and people pleasing (I’m not OK, you’re OK, and I need you to tell me I’m OK) or towards narcissism (I’m OK, in fact I’m the best and you need to be subservient in the relationship and validate that I’m the best for there to even be a relationship).
The unwillingness to go to therapy ended my 18 year relationship when it became the boundary I set for continuation of the relationship. Years of last minute excuses, forgetting, even flat out refusing or gaslighting. It was a weird experience to show up to therapy without her after her promising to be there, not responding to messages then continuing to gaslight that we never made such arrangements.
1% of the population is still 1 in 100 people. That is still 700,000 people in the UK and they're all seeking power to make them invulnerable. Plus that 1% is a very conservative estimate because, as stated, narcissistic people don't seek help or diagnosis. So, even with the conservative estimate, it is s huge issue. Imagine the amount of damage 1 person in every 100 (at the very least) can do in personal and working relationships, especially if they hold power and control over others. So I'm not so sure that casting doubt about people's ability to recognise narcissism in others is helpful. This is a big issue.
@4:34 He doesn't fall in love with himself, he falls in love with the image of himself. It's something total different. Small detail people seem to forget. If you can't tell the story as is, don't just talk to talk know your stuff.
In six decades, I have known two narcissists, one a boss and one an ex-husband. They can become quite cruel. The ex-husband could become physically aggressive. My boss, a woman, was so professionally abusive that she built up a condition where I could be fired unless I did what she demanded or did every piece of minutia at her bekon-call. Always a threat of losing my source of income. I have known many people with narcissistic traits but they are shy of dangerous behaviors.
Memory gaps. They're always in denial. You cannot bring up any conversation that includes anything negative. The conversation doesn't go anywhere. They don't hear what you say. It's only what matters to them. Liars think everyone else are also liars. They promise and never keep the promise. He gave me nothing. And took everything. You will get a strange feeling when you meet them. Uncanny feeling. I think I did but I didn't think much of it at the time. It was challenging me. I said who or what is this about. They keep moving the goal post. And they aren't capable of real intimacy.. Some are very creative. I didn't learn right away what narcissism really was. I never knew it existed. Some are criminally minded. The covert is sadistic.
My heart sank when I saw the title. I thought: "Here we go again, ADHDers accused of even more attention seeking". Since being diagnosed with ADHD three years ago it's been really tiring coming up against so much suspicion. Seems it's made me as suspicious in return. Thanks for a fascinating video. Got yourself a sub. 👍
Also I dont agree with love bombing and fast moving. Actually narcissist will withold attention and love giving so you bond yourself and ask for it. Thats how they feel special.
I think it's important to understand that ADHD and NPD can both co-occur, and having ADHD can increase the risk of developing NPD. I feel like the narrative here is a bit biased.
Absolutely. I hate this tendency to rely purely on diagnosis because it's just unrealistic. Someone who has lived with a narcissist for years is VERY well equipped to give a PROVISIONAL diagnosis and proceed from there. It can change if you get new information, but there's little harm in doing it if it keeps you safe. Personally, it got me out of a horrible emotionally abusive relationship.
@@IshtarNikeI don't think that is true. There are experienced with that individual. But you can't tell me that there isn't going to be resentments and biased view about it. Clinical diagnostics even can confuse it with several other conditions. Best thing to do is to leave. Because if you dont them a lot of the tactics that people advice to use against a diagnosed Narcissist are in fact abuse to those who do not have it. You can either leave the monster or you risk becoming the monster.
Super interesting! I still worry about whether or not I’m a narcissist myself as well as different family members or people I encounter. It seems it’s really not so strait forward to diagnose or identify people’s motives etc…. especially when there can be so much overlap between different conditions.
I think the eggs analogy could be extended to include on of the difficult elements of ADHD and that is being put under unwanted pressure can lead to cracking. And without the structure of, say an omelette pan, a lot of the goodness can get wasted.
You can. I'm fairly certain my dad has both, or at least is highly narcissistic. He's very selfish, has narcissistic rages over even tiny criticisms. He's currently binge eating himself to death while having diabetes. But he's so narcissistic that even well-meaning attempts to help him change are met with cussing and shouting. He almost died from diabetic comas twice already, but god forbid you remind him that he can't drink 6 cans of coke a day as a diabetic. ADHD is where the bingeing comes from, but narcissism is where the ego and resistance to change comes in. Even someone with serious RSD can admit to being in the wrong once they've calmed down. He never has and seemingly never will.
@IshtarNike Addiction to caffeine and sugar are very powerful even more for ADHD as they provide dopamine to a dopamine deficient brain. I doubt criticism will help him heal from addiction or telling him what he already knows, and he's been bombarded with from every flank. I don't know him or why he's selfish, so I can't comment on that or if he might be narcissistic. But he's certainly not because of his eating habits or health issues or being fed with being shamed for them. We all have resistance to change to a certain extent. I also doubt you or the people around him are qualified to help him, as proven by the results mentioned. He might need a new approach from the help he might receive hopefully soon
15:40 My covert narcissistic ex wanted access to the visa I could provide her. She was very smart and played the long game. Waited like 2 years into the relationship before bringing up the visa thing. Making it seem natural. Their cunning is unparalleled. She also brought it up right after her granddad died so I'd have felt shitty turning it down. I didn't think of the timing before, but it's highly suspicious to me now, knowing what I know.
My ex partner was diagnosed with bipolar disorder type one and as a psychopath and he went to prison for assaulting myself and my son. His psychiatrist warned me that if i went back to him he would kill me one day. I now suffer with ptsd and anxiety
Thank you for all the insights! On the monetization end (and without suggesting company sponsorships) I would like to suggest allowing memberships or maybe opening Patreon, both as a mere support option and without actual 'benefits' other than supporting the channel. I'd totally be in for good!
I keep forgetting my washing in the machine, too. It often gets re-rinsed or re-washed a couple of times before I finally put it on an airer. An airer, by the way, that I've been tripping over all week full of the previous washing that's been dry for a week. Oh dear. 🙄
Seems like the guest's definition of narcissism is lacking the most important factor which is the link between low self-esteem and narcissism (which actually makes even more apparent it's connection with ADHD, especially the late diagnosed)
Narcissism is such a buzzword these days. Most of the "experts" lack nuance and are preying on traumatised people who are (rightfully) angry because this emotion gets clicks.
@@markmuller7962 I get the irony. Most people have narcissistic traits - it's human - so I don't mind something coming across as narcissistic. But you've exemplified the hollow buzzword aspect really well in that I can make one comment (which happened to be in agreement with you, interestingly) and then I'm sarcastically called narcissistic.
Both narc and adhd is widely used now in media. Narc will always inform you that he/she has some mental issue. Sometimes it can be adhd, I also got «derealisation» from one. But you will quickly discover that this person sits on high horse and is entitled. You will feel it in your guts. Its huge distinction between actual adhd and narc.
I dated a narcissist and it was torture. Luckily he wasnt so attached to me that i couldnt escape but whenever he was in my circle i was absolutely drained by him
My parents made me golden for my sensitivity and truth seeking/telling traits. I love them so 😢 I’ve been idealized by people my entire life and also devalued. I am an INFJ with ADHD.
My husband's mother is a covert narcissist and I have adhd. Many times my husband can't tell the difference. He thinks I am deliberately being neglectful lazy and careless as his mother used to do , but the difference being she did it on purpose to destroy people around her and I do it out of genuine forgetfulness/overstimulation etc.
Wrong. There was a time when psychology believed NPD was rare, but since internet, people are able to talk about the narcs in there lives, and Dr. Ramani says it's 1 out of 6 people now.
1 out of every 100 people is considered to have NPD (and, as explained in the talk, this could be higher because genuine Narcissists don't go for professional help) + 1 out of every 100 people could have antisocial personality disorder (be a psychopath). Am I the only one to think that actually that's A LOT - and basically means we've all had encounters with these dangerous personality types.
This has been so fascinating. I have watched tons of these discussions because i just cant get clear on how bad is the narcissist in my life. I think he is covert, but very low on the scale. But i feel so much like i’m in a yo-yo. Any words of advice? And i do have ADHD. Thank you
I've dated a few guy's that said they had ADHD but were more narcissists than anything even memorizing the symptoms to get a diagnosis of ADHD. Gross people
But I think 2 narcs can work together to manipulate and smear another...i.e. criminal activity together, character assassination of the truth teller/whistle blower...expecially when they work together and are both feeling threatened by the whistle blower.....until they are done benefiting from each other at least...
Well if npd is not exposig them selfs in therapy but many people are suffering from their behaviour then how the hell can given statistics be correct?In my opinion (not a proffessional not in that field anyway) there is a lot of ppl with npd and even more "in spectrum" of narcs.
So if the person won’t engage in the tough conversation - or whenever they do, they shut down or deflect or get mean - and you set a boundary finally that you won’t continue in the marriage unless they get some help - and they won’t do it - what I hear is they won’t and there is really nothing more I can do?
Are only narcissists affraid to be alone? Are only narcissists the ones who think about 'surviving'? Are other animals also narcissists when they think about 'surviving'? Are people not affraid when alone? Somewhere going alone, living alone? Is being alone safe in the context of nature?
Me 2 and i'm in shock since i began learning about narcissism. December 2019 while having a bath i realized that my mother is one. I understood immediately that she is not the only one in my family and that my upbringing lead to lots of encounters with narcs without me recognizing behaviours that are abusive.
Transactional, yes. They aren't conscious that they are narcissistic. They feel justified, entitled to your mind and money. I knew there was something off. But I'm very curious and wanted to understand what this was. It almost killed. But I'm strong and was able to find my way out. But it took a long time. I didn't want to believe it. I was unique in his life. I'm typical air head. Plus I have an extra sense. It took a while to accept what I was sure of. Broken heart. 👍👍
I remember an ex-girlfriend proudly stating how her aunt told her how her ancestors were all bolshy, pushy people, and she could see no problem with that. She was and is a classic, textbook narcissist.
Oops....not saying Alex is a Narcissist, but he kinda got you there. He didn't ask himself if he might be a Narcissist-he asked YOU. And you, Doctor, gave him the answer he wanted to hear 😄
Okay well for those of us who have lost a loved one to gun violence/suicide your opening graphic was callous, insensitive and stupid. And as a person with ADHD I thought this might be another channel to visit regularly but here's the thing: reputable psychologists are very wary and very prudent around labels, knowing that they can be misused and misunderstood and soon everyone is going around claiming that anyone who isn't to their liking must be a malignant narcissist.
I could tell as you began to fidget that your brain was going a mile a minute- worried - "well shit, maybe I'm a narcissist" when he was describing the characteristics. You were very uncomfortable, and so was I.
THEN- I had the same sense of relief when your guest BACKPEDDLED quickly as he saw your discomfort and concern as well. It is amazing the parallels between narcissistic traits and ADHD symptoms.
I believe a lot of intelligent people are narcissistic. Because they can be above stupid behaviour. And will laugh st or be snotty at stupid behaviour. And are more init for themselves. Because they are not stupid to loose out.
We need a stock question to detect a narcissist. Something we can use in interviews so we can avoid danger, especially if we have autism. Any suggestions?
I'm no expert, just someone who's had a relationship with a narcissist. I'm just spitballing here, but I would expect something like "tell me about something you f****d up recently" followed up with "what did you do to resolve the problem that caused?" If they can't think of an answer to the first statement, that'd be concerning. If their answer to the second thing doesn't sound right, that'd also be concerning. I guess the problem with this is it's a bit of a strange question to ask unprompted. If memory serves, one that I've heard mentioned online (probably by Dr Ramani) is that when a suspected narcissist compliments you on something (it could be anything), ask them why they complimented you on it. If they can immediately come up with a logical, rational reason for the compliment, that's good, but if there's no solid reason behind the compliment or if they're not sure why they complimented you, that's a small sign they might be a narcissist. For example: "I love your dress" "Thanks, why do you say that?" "Oh, it goes so well with your shoes and earrings" (probably a genuine compliment) Or "It's just nice" or "I just like it is all" or "I don't know" (indicative that the compliment is not genuine) The reality is that, especially with covert narcissists, and especially for us autistic folks, they can be very hard to spot. I'd started learning about narcissism several months before starting a 7 month situationship with one, but only realised she is one 2 weeks after I ended things over her total lack of remorse for cheating. Ironic, and very damaging psychologically. But my point is there's no magic bullet, really it's about weighing and adding up lots of often contradictory clues, which can be nigh on impossible to remain aware of in a romantic situation with the love goggles on. Good luck out there.
There's no way to weed them out with one question. Unfortunately it's always going to take time. You can usually tell after a few weeks or months depending on how much contact you have with them. In terms of dating I'm now good enough to detect toxic people after about 3 dates. Not narcissists, but people with subtle red flags. It's not hard if you know what to look for, but it's often very subtle. I suppose I've had 6 years of emotional abuse as training for it so I may as well put those years to use.
@@RedHeadForester Thank you. These are really good questions. Its also really important to learn to get in contact with your feelings and needs. Feel if this person gives you what you need and respects you and your boundaries.
Ask a narcissist: What would you do to improve yourself? The NPD will say nothing (they project perfection) or get angry & defensive. A healthy minded person will have an introspective answer.
I been there and I question my own worth I also attempt to kill my self because I feel so useless because I hurt there emotions I love him so much ever am hurting inside I try my best to not leave him but what happened a call police on me
It's horrible living with a narcissist, especially the covert hidden narcissist, which can turn very malignant, very fast, and their dangerous to be around. Great podcast on this topic.... Thank you...
Now in my 50’s I realize that I have had many of these people in my life, including parents. I had a difficulty saying no to people or letting them know when they hurt me. Sweeping all their shortcomings under the carpet and a high tolerance for their bs, because I loved them. But I realize now - it was not love. I was lacking the love of myself. My low self esteem due to my childhood and never being told or showed that I was loved as a child. My little sister was treated differently, so from a young age I felt low of myself and looked for love in all the wrong places. I was a narcissists dream!
Better to learn late than never. I am at peace now and I am loving myself more because God loves me and I am grateful to him for taking me away from my nasty ex narc.
Great description. I’ve been around narcissists all my life and have been often researching to understand them and how to recognise them before it’s too late. I was married to a person who definitely has npd. They are never wrong, never apologise and won’t tolerate even marriage counseling. They are extremely dangerous and will destroy their own children. I narrowly escaped death, as did my children.
Wtf
I'm forever thankful that despite dismissing my gut feeling about my previous marriage, I never caved on not having kids with him.
@@markmuller7962my mother is a covert narcissist.
She destroyed our family and us the kids.
The closest thing to a narcisist is a demon. These things are no human.
😢
My experience with ADHD myself and friends that are ADHD. We seem to be incapable of being a narcissist. Unfortunately, given our sensitivity, we are probably more susceptible to the emotional manipulation by a narcissist. I've been out of a relationship with a narcissist for a while now. It sucks I wasted 13 years of my life on this person, but it has taught me what to look out for in the future.
Yep. Adhd are deeply sensitive, not malicious. 🎉
13 years, same. ADHD diagnosis... Same. I also have PTSD.
It depends on the person. My ex was NPD but also had ADHD. His father was a full blown narcissist as well. My 23 yo son has ADHD but is not a narcissist so it really does depend on the individual.
@@Ishtar2419my ex too. He took vyvanse than would drink. The cruelty!!! Psycho!! Father, baaad, mum too... I see it in his daughter. I was around her thru teens & early 20's. Sooo sad.
😅
I was married to a covert narcissist for 15 years.I had to heal and walk away.Thankful for this teaching..Being afraid is not an option when leaving a narcissist.
This confirms exactly what I thought about my ex-boyfriend he was an extreme narcissist, who managed to gaslight me on a regular basis to the point I thought I was going crazy. It took all my strength to get away from him, once I finished with him. I had endure him stalking, telephoning me, constantly, the list is endless, set fire to my bins, burnt the clothes I bought him outside my home, put my telephone number in Kings cross phone booths. He put excrement on my door, graffitied outside my home. Beat me up on the street daily until I managed to get an injunction then he still drove through my road. I started dating someone else for protection, but he tried to smash my new boyfriends car, but got my neighbours instead. Please listen to the red flags, you are not imagining it, be strong enough to leave.
This is horrific . It’s when you leave them they really lose it .
Happened to me too but I don’t see many people talk about this aspect much
OMG sounds more like a psychopath. Glad you're out. Stay safe but don't let fear and hypervigilance control you.
Wow that's crazy stuff, it's crazy how long they can hide who they are. I was married for 8 years before I found out the truth and who she really was, because she doesn't want to be exposed any further she tried to have me murdered multiple times
That’s was a sociopath . 😮
😢
From my experience, narcissist needs lots of admiration and is visibly «teacher» vibe. This is a person who consider himself the judge. You will have to chase him. Also depends how you look like (if beautiful) or what you have that he can benefit from ( access to good things in life).
You will sense across few dates already they will spit unkind comments but blame you to be unkind. Its intuitive. You will feel it. It will confuse you. Specially if you are adhd or depressed, you will feel guilty and not deserving of him. If you feel some of this, run. Silently.
I am autistic and ADHD. We are prey for narcissists. She was an abusive and violent drunk. I was assaulted, thousands of dollars of my property destroyed. She ignored restraining orders and existing court orders and she still stalks me. She is the worst thing that ever happened to me. I am not the same person anymore. I relived my traumatic childhood all over again. She groomed for a year before she came in for the kill.
Autism is not prey , it’s almost identical to to narcissistic personality disorder when it comes to the traits like no empathy ect
@@Camposdarkoautistic people have high emotional empathy just have a harder time expressing it in a way that is deemed socially appropriate in real time before getting a chance to process things.
You are perpetuating outdated myths by saying that and I kindly suggest you educate yourself. Things have moved on a lot from when people used to think that and it all stems from faulty tests that were done.
We deeply care about the wellbeing of others but can often, in the moment, not notice if we are saying/doing something that could be hurtful to others but once we are made aware of it or realise it ourselves afterwards…we are the first to apologise, take accountability and try to make amends.
I’ll also add that a large portion of us (myself included) have been manipulated by narcissists exactly because of our naivety and tendency to take what people say at face value. Difficulty reading between the lines and naturally assuming that others are well intentioned and have no hidden agenda like ourselves is exactly what leads to these situations.
People who say otherwise are either just ignorant or are narcissistic themselves and trying to justify their poor treatment of autistic people
@@JL-dl8nrI can totally agree with the statement.
@JL-dl8nr thank you.
21yr old daughter has adhd and autism. Family consider her cold and lacking empathy. She is such a sweet person and extremely generous to her sister and l.
People certainly need to educate themselves on the subject.
I am quite disappointed, this is a podcast with rare opportunity to discuss dynamics of relationship between ADHD and NPD partners. Because how these traits connect in a specific way, and such relationships happen more often than between ADHD and types of people.
In particular, lack of empathy in NPD person makes them seek and value partner with ADHD who is extra sensitive.
Agreed.
I was talking to people about this out of the 6 of us 4 had been in some form of narcissistic relationship.
Sorry, why are you disappointed? Your comment isn't clear.
It's a very deep subject so perhaps you could make a request directly about this. This psychologist comes back regularly so perhaps they will do a deeper exploration of what you are asking.
Fuck me 🤦♂️
Narcissist create ADHD in children.
true
Correct, CPTSD
Passed on from generation to generation😢
@@Ishtar2419until the misogynists are taken out of their families ❤ all narcissists are misogynists!
Correction, Narcissus fell in love with his *REFLECTON* ( (the image) of himself, not of himself per se.
In reality, the narc hates himself so and builds a fake persona which he "loves" more than anything.
Me having Adhd survived 13 years of absolute narcisstic abuse. Now treating C-PTSD. We need this information more and more.
My mother is a narcissist, and she does apologize, but it’s only in word and she makes you feel guilty at the same time. She will also revisit the apology she had to make for years to come.
You don't deserve that treatment. Those are not apologies.
They never think they are wrong
This discussion is very deceiving. Someone with ADHD can also have NPD. Plus Narcissistic people and people with NPD are very common ( the reason why statistics says it's just 1% it because these people don't go to therapy and they don't get diagnosed) from my experience I would say it's 50% of the population - so be careful who you let into your life
Calling people narcissists is just an internet fad traumatised people have picked up on. Can't wait for us to move on.
Important to keep in mind every person can be narcissistic as it's simply a behavioral trait, we've all been narcissistic at times just like we've all been greedy, deceptive or selfish at times in our lives.
It's just the frequency and intensity that vary, I guess. For someone with NPD the traits and symptoms would have to be so severe it significantly impacts their life (definition of disorder).
I was curious myself to the prevalence of co-morbid ADHD and NPD so had AI run some quick estimates.
Estimating the population percentage for each condition:
_Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD):_
- Estimated prevalence: 0.5% to 6.2% (average: 3.3%) [1]
_Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD):_
- Estimated prevalence: 8.1% to 9.5% (average: 8.8%) [2]
Now, estimating the population percentage with both co-morbid conditions:
_Assumptions:_
- The co-occurrence of NPD and ADHD is higher than the product of their individual prevalences (due to shared risk factors).
- Using the average prevalence values: 3.3% (NPD) and 8.8% (ADHD).
_Estimated co-morbidity rate:_
- Conservative estimate: 0.5% to 1.5% (assuming a modest increase due to co-occurrence)
- Liberal estimate: 2% to 4% (assuming a higher increase due to shared risk factors)
Please note that these estimates are rough and based on available data, which might have varying methodologies and population samples. The actual prevalence and co-morbidity rates may differ.
References:
[1] Stinson, F. S., et al. (2008). Prevalence, correlates, disability, and comorbidity of DSM-IV narcissistic personality disorder. Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, 69(7), 1033-1045.
[2] Polanczyk, G., et al. (2014). The worldwide prevalence of ADHD: A systematic review and meta-regression analysis. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, 55(3), 345-353.
Id argue that the numbers are even higher. To many variables. Id further propose that the baseline has shifted so much that the are tons of people, who by current society's standard would go by unconsidered and under the textbook radar because so much more is generally accepted. Same thing with regards morals being not only flexible but ambiguous the extreme ends of both good and bad have shifted and when the majority of society lives or lived in the gray area. That once the extremes shifted what was once good is frowned upon and people are farore accepting and understanding of the bad. This skews the gray area by so much. Effectively make so muchore justifiable. Same things with narcissistic traits and since those traits are reinforced more now than ever it stands to reason that under current diagnosis standard many go unchecked. Just a thought. 😊@@taz.e-riding
Right before he said 1% he explained why you think it's more than that. No, just like not everyone who gets sidetracked is not ADHD, same thing for true narcissism. If you've ever been in a intimate relationship with one of these people you'll find out what it really is..and tbh I guarantee you wouldn't be saying that, and no... I don't think a lot of people are like that. I think there is a lot of features concerning western society, that are very narcissistic... Social media for instance, government for instance. But I don't think a lot of people embody it.
@@Siegefya fact is that statistics dictate it is on the rise clinically. Regardless of anything else we (not just the westerners) as a whole are being brought up and raised to embodies these characteristics. Admire those who are that way and put value on self and material things. Which devalues humans which only serves to bolster what is slowly being engrained upon us. It has been happening for some time now and was kicked into high gear with the onset of social media. Like it or not is the direction that the world population is going. As with anything there are outside group or smaller populations that don't subscribe to this and you would be right to point that out. Sadly though that smaller population or group used to be those with narcissistic traits. They didn't used to be so common place. It has been engineered as such forced subtly over time. To the masses little by little until it is so socially normal that it isn't even noticed until it is too late.
Love bombing is usually characterised by acts and expressions that take normal infatuation to the extreme. It also happens too soon for there to be a plausible real connection.
Signs youre being love bombed if anything like this happens after one or two dates:
- They say you're the most amazing person ever.
-They say you're the one
-They say they can't live without you
-They ask what you want for your birthday
-They start talking about moving in together/kids/marriage.
-They turn up at your house so often they've practically moved in without a discussion about it (flip side, they invite you round so often that you feel like you've moved in accidentally).
-They buy something, or take you on an expensive experience or holiday that's way beyond anything you'd expect after such a short tkme knowing each other.
- They (a woman) want to get physical very very fast, and combine it with one or two of the other signs. Women can have high sex drives and want sex, but social pressure against this is still VERY strong. It's very unusual to find a woman who is sexually aggressive very early but also claims to want a serious relationship. And I'm not talking about just being open to it, I mean she's pushing for it, like throwing herself at you so much it feels like you're in a movie.
-Source: was love bombed, sex bombed, and trapped by a covert narc for 6 years. I kid you not, with no flirting or foreplay, i went over to help her fix something and when i was done she threw herself on me. I was a virgin. I had no chance 😢
All narcissists are misogynists even the female narcissists are misogynists!!
I’ve been studying Covert Narcissism for months and I’ve heard from a very well known specialist that 1 in 6 people are.
Definitely the majority don’t get diagnosed but there are many many people out there who are.
Every single thing in this discussion happened in my last relationship. I have experience of overt narcissists, but not covert. It took me a long time to see what was happening. I feel battered and bruised, confused and misunderstood (everyone thought he was handsome and charming). Thank you for this video.
Covert is horrendous. My dad is on that side, and trust me, watching him in his relationship with my mum really messed up my idea of what was the right and wrong approach for such a long time. Luckily my mum’s a huge empath, and I absorbed most of my traits for treating people from her. I feel so sorry for anyone who has had to deal with a covert narcissist in their lives - it’s truly awful. And sadly, the victim is often not believed as the narcissist is so wonderful to the outside world.
What a brilliant talk, Dr Mark Rackley should be doing his own podcast, and the questions you asked were brilliantly relevant in so much as most people can identify with those particular sessions.
Food for thought!
Sam Vaknin is the one to listen to regarding NPD
What book was he the author of??
I listen to him but he is not clear enough. He speak too much as a theorist. I don’t find him practical at all. I wish it was different especially that he is a narcissist himself
Meanwhile he has zero idea of the link between ADHD and pathological narcissism hence the crazy amount of misdiagnosed ppl.
Also he has some bizarre non-scientific (and extreme, often in a negative way) takes on NPD but yea, overall a knowledgeable professional if you know how to filter out some of the extremes taking into account that he's NPD himself alongside a eastern-europe very conservative or old mindset
@@ceciliamac4283Well that's his role and specialization, I'm sure there are other sources more on the practical spectrum if you need them (most people don't cuz we're not therapists)
@@markmuller7962 Thank you for your feedback. We need the practical language even when we are not therapists. My mother is stuck in a 45 years marriage with a narcissist and I know it would help her.
Best,
Narcissis fell in love with his image not his Self . Without that distinction the pt is lost
Maybe his "image" is what he projects outwardly
Narcissists have targeted me my entire life and weaponised my adhd against me
I'm not sure if the doctor is being accurate when it comes to NPD. Something to bear in mind is that most personality disorders are ego syntonic. That means that the traits align with the way the person feels they can and SHOULD be. That almost certainly goes double for most people with NPD because by definition they feel like they're the best thing since sliced bread (if we leave the deeper subconscious fact that they hate themselves for the time being).
So as far as NPD goes they often appear mentally unstable, but they FEEL fine. Oh they'll complain about anxiety or depression, but not about the actual symptoms of their NPD because it's literally their personality. They feel like they're justified in those behaviours. They will leave a dozen shattered relationships and shattered people in their wake. But no amount of arguing will convince them that they're the ones responsible for that. They'll just insist that they're unlucky and bad people always find them. Highly narcissistic people are the classic "all mt exs are crazy" sort of people.
"He keeps messing up" is our empathy not having boundaries. We have to say "He messed up" and own it.
thank you for coming back, dr mark, and thank you alex and adhd chatter team 🙂❤
They don't need a reason to attack. Nothing you do will make them more or less attack you. They always feel the need to attack. Everything makes them feel inadequate. Even with yiur absence, that emptiness needs to be filled and they will stalk you, harassing you endlessly. You just blink and they have already been attacking. Their brain is wired wrong.
I was hoping this might touch on the higher rates of diagnosis of ADHD comorbid with NPD. Even so, there's tons of excellent, useful information in here.
Answer about lower rung everyday narcissists - they love unregulated spaces like the arts where they can exploit, grift and prey on people
The egg illustration was perfect.
Amazing. So many aha moments for me in this and I have been studying narcissism for 10 years.
Validation + RSD + Perfectionism + masking + low self-esteem 🤷♀️
Very much milder (and different) than NPD tho, especially on how deeply rooted and delusional the actual NPD is (and that's why it's considered chronic)
Edit: It can be severe in late diagnosed tho and these cases can easily be misdiagnosed as NPD
Can someone be both ADHD and a covert narcissist?
@skippy6462 I think that is possible. I was in a relationship with someone who fit that type. I know ADHD well. It's in my family, and I have many adhd friends. It was a really difficult and confusing predicament to find this extra dimension in someone with adhd. I fell right into it as I am myself a rescuer. I have been working on that. It was pretty awful. I don't know if it was npd or bpd for absolute sure, because they look similar from the outside, and anyway, I can't really diagnose. However, there is plenty of compelling evidence. It was heartbreaking and quite chaotic, though.
@@marcuscosgrove9431 I feel this comment so deeply. I’m not sure what the diagnosis is but my gut has been worried almost since the beginning. I’m a rescuer too apparently thats what my mum always says! I feel compelled to help but also frozen by fear. I feel trapped. I also want to see this person fulfilled and happy but I’m not sure if that’s even possible. I feel monitored.
@@Chicky1234-m3f rescuing is a dangerous game. I usually don't set out with rescuing in mind, but I will always help anyone who needs it. In a relationship this can end up with all kinds of screwy dependencies. This attracts a certain type, and in the end it leads to devaluation and discard. It has taken me a very long time to work that out.
I would also be interested in a talk on the differences / similarities between narcissism and the dismissive avoidant personality attachment style. The two present in a very similar way and have a similar effect on others I think.
Narcissist will adapt bc they mirror others. They WILL go to therapy "for the other" . Few professionals can see thru them and they boast of beign smarter than therapist. They also change therapist often if they are in danger of exposure.
I had a narcissist as my previous boss and he did not like me at all. Long story short, I no longer work there and my reputation is in tatters. They are incredibly dangerous!
I'm an Objectivist and have defended rational narcissism for over a decade, as it is a necessary part of rational selfishness within the philosophy (I think this is even more important in the default guilt setting adhd people start life with). I think their needs to be a distinction between the two, as we need this is our defense more than most. We need to center ourselves, so not to be taken advantage of and have a proper self-esteem.
Interesting to listen to. My ex was definitely a narc. Short relationship which turned out to be her looking for someone to go on holiday with (she had zero friends).
However, I've realised I have narc traits. I do like validation and know I need to work on it. Just glad to be self-aware enough to know I don't have NPD 😅
Some level of narcissism is normal and necessary and we all need validation from others given we’re social interdependent animals. Some of us are too dependent on outside validation though which can make us lean towards co-dependency and people pleasing (I’m not OK, you’re OK, and I need you to tell me I’m OK) or towards narcissism (I’m OK, in fact I’m the best and you need to be subservient in the relationship and validate that I’m the best for there to even be a relationship).
This is a really well detailed, rounded discussion. Each question is answered with brilliant clarity. Enjoyed it very much. Thank you 💙
The unwillingness to go to therapy ended my 18 year relationship when it became the boundary I set for continuation of the relationship. Years of last minute excuses, forgetting, even flat out refusing or gaslighting. It was a weird experience to show up to therapy without her after her promising to be there, not responding to messages then continuing to gaslight that we never made such arrangements.
1% of the population is still 1 in 100 people. That is still 700,000 people in the UK and they're all seeking power to make them invulnerable. Plus that 1% is a very conservative estimate because, as stated, narcissistic people don't seek help or diagnosis. So, even with the conservative estimate, it is s huge issue. Imagine the amount of damage 1 person in every 100 (at the very least) can do in personal and working relationships, especially if they hold power and control over others. So I'm not so sure that casting doubt about people's ability to recognise narcissism in others is helpful. This is a big issue.
Also in gvmnts
It is 1 in 10...for ASPD/NPD...according to an ex CIA agent....
You are honest and open. Thank you.
@4:34 He doesn't fall in love with himself, he falls in love with the image of himself. It's something total different. Small detail people seem to forget. If you can't tell the story as is, don't just talk to talk know your stuff.
I enjoyed this interview so much. So rich and full of information.
In six decades, I have known two narcissists, one a boss and one an ex-husband. They can become quite cruel. The ex-husband could become physically aggressive. My boss, a woman, was so professionally abusive that she built up a condition where I could be fired unless I did what she demanded or did every piece of minutia at her bekon-call. Always a threat of losing my source of income. I have known many people with narcissistic traits but they are shy of dangerous behaviors.
Memory gaps.
They're always in denial. You cannot bring up any conversation that includes anything negative. The conversation doesn't
go anywhere. They don't hear what you say. It's only what matters to them. Liars think everyone else are also liars.
They promise and never keep the promise.
He gave me nothing. And took everything.
You will get a strange feeling when you meet
them.
Uncanny feeling.
I think I did but I
didn't think much of it
at the time. It was challenging me. I said who or what is this about.
They keep moving the goal post. And they aren't
capable of real intimacy..
Some are very creative.
I didn't learn right away what narcissism
really was.
I never knew it existed.
Some are criminally minded.
The covert is sadistic.
My heart sank when I saw the title. I thought: "Here we go again, ADHDers accused of even more attention seeking". Since being diagnosed with ADHD three years ago it's been really tiring coming up against so much suspicion. Seems it's made me as suspicious in return. Thanks for a fascinating video. Got yourself a sub. 👍
Also I dont agree with love bombing and fast moving. Actually narcissist will withold attention and love giving so you bond yourself and ask for it. Thats how they feel special.
I think it's important to understand that ADHD and NPD can both co-occur, and having ADHD can increase the risk of developing NPD. I feel like the narrative here is a bit biased.
I have seen some narcisstic couples, but not many. One of them tends to be the uber narc though...
It’s not rare. You are still npd weather diagnosed or not
Well said Dr Ramini explained this in her work. She is a world renowned expert on narcissism
@@Listen_before_you_act according to her it's one in 6. Not 0.5% which are old stats.
Absolutely. I hate this tendency to rely purely on diagnosis because it's just unrealistic. Someone who has lived with a narcissist for years is VERY well equipped to give a PROVISIONAL diagnosis and proceed from there. It can change if you get new information, but there's little harm in doing it if it keeps you safe. Personally, it got me out of a horrible emotionally abusive relationship.
@@IshtarNikeI don't think that is true. There are experienced with that individual. But you can't tell me that there isn't going to be resentments and biased view about it. Clinical diagnostics even can confuse it with several other conditions. Best thing to do is to leave. Because if you dont them a lot of the tactics that people advice to use against a diagnosed Narcissist are in fact abuse to those who do not have it. You can either leave the monster or you risk becoming the monster.
Super interesting! I still worry about whether or not I’m a narcissist myself as well as different family members or people I encounter. It seems it’s really not so strait forward to diagnose or identify people’s motives etc…. especially when there can be so much overlap between different conditions.
I think the eggs analogy could be extended to include on of the difficult elements of ADHD and that is being put under unwanted pressure can lead to cracking. And without the structure of, say an omelette pan, a lot of the goodness can get wasted.
But I imagine you could have both ADHD and NPD?
You can. I'm fairly certain my dad has both, or at least is highly narcissistic. He's very selfish, has narcissistic rages over even tiny criticisms. He's currently binge eating himself to death while having diabetes. But he's so narcissistic that even well-meaning attempts to help him change are met with cussing and shouting. He almost died from diabetic comas twice already, but god forbid you remind him that he can't drink 6 cans of coke a day as a diabetic. ADHD is where the bingeing comes from, but narcissism is where the ego and resistance to change comes in. Even someone with serious RSD can admit to being in the wrong once they've calmed down. He never has and seemingly never will.
@IshtarNike Addiction to caffeine and sugar are very powerful even more for ADHD as they provide dopamine to a dopamine deficient brain. I doubt criticism will help him heal from addiction or telling him what he already knows, and he's been bombarded with from every flank. I don't know him or why he's selfish, so I can't comment on that or if he might be narcissistic. But he's certainly not because of his eating habits or health issues or being fed with being shamed for them. We all have resistance to change to a certain extent. I also doubt you or the people around him are qualified to help him, as proven by the results mentioned. He might need a new approach from the help he might receive hopefully soon
100%
15:40 My covert narcissistic ex wanted access to the visa I could provide her. She was very smart and played the long game. Waited like 2 years into the relationship before bringing up the visa thing. Making it seem natural. Their cunning is unparalleled. She also brought it up right after her granddad died so I'd have felt shitty turning it down. I didn't think of the timing before, but it's highly suspicious to me now, knowing what I know.
Of course two narcissists can get together- can be very high conflict and very transactional.
Ofcourse they can get together they just won't last
My ex partner was diagnosed with bipolar disorder type one and as a psychopath and he went to prison for assaulting myself and my son. His psychiatrist warned me that if i went back to him he would kill me one day. I now suffer with ptsd and anxiety
Thank you for all the insights! On the monetization end (and without suggesting company sponsorships) I would like to suggest allowing memberships or maybe opening Patreon, both as a mere support option and without actual 'benefits' other than supporting the channel. I'd totally be in for good!
"Diary Of An ADHD CEO" 😂😂😂
Thank you . That helped me a lot ! I suffer a lot of RSD...and was missdiagnosed...
You are the best person to explain this topic. So good !🌹
I keep forgetting my washing in the machine, too. It often gets re-rinsed or re-washed a couple of times before I finally put it on an airer. An airer, by the way, that I've been tripping over all week full of the previous washing that's been dry for a week. Oh dear. 🙄
Seems like the guest's definition of narcissism is lacking the most important factor which is the link between low self-esteem and narcissism (which actually makes even more apparent it's connection with ADHD, especially the late diagnosed)
Narcissism is such a buzzword these days. Most of the "experts" lack nuance and are preying on traumatised people who are (rightfully) angry because this emotion gets clicks.
@@riveranalyse Your anti experts conment... Not narcissistic at all
@@markmuller7962 I get the irony. Most people have narcissistic traits - it's human - so I don't mind something coming across as narcissistic. But you've exemplified the hollow buzzword aspect really well in that I can make one comment (which happened to be in agreement with you, interestingly) and then I'm sarcastically called narcissistic.
@@riveranalyse i might have misread/misinterpreted your comment
Both narc and adhd is widely used now in media. Narc will always inform you that he/she has some mental issue. Sometimes it can be adhd, I also got «derealisation» from one. But you will quickly discover that this person sits on high horse and is entitled. You will feel it in your guts. Its huge distinction between actual adhd and narc.
I dated a narcissist and it was torture. Luckily he wasnt so attached to me that i couldnt escape but whenever he was in my circle i was absolutely drained by him
My parents made me golden for my sensitivity and truth seeking/telling traits. I love them so 😢 I’ve been idealized by people my entire life and also devalued. I am an INFJ with ADHD.
The golden child isn't the child who seeks the truth or tells it 😂 the golden child obeys the narcissistic parents and does their bidding!
You're the scapegoat if you're being abused. The golden child is abused too but not as much
My husband's mother is a covert narcissist and I have adhd. Many times my husband can't tell the difference. He thinks I am deliberately being neglectful lazy and careless as his mother used to do , but the difference being she did it on purpose to destroy people around her and I do it out of genuine forgetfulness/overstimulation etc.
Wrong. There was a time when psychology believed NPD was rare, but since internet, people are able to talk about the narcs in there lives, and Dr. Ramani says it's 1 out of 6 people now.
That description of ADHD with an Egg is incredible💯📌♥️
GRWM is often used to showcase products - it's not always about the person! 😅
1 out of every 100 people is considered to have NPD (and, as explained in the talk, this could be higher because genuine Narcissists don't go for professional help) + 1 out of every 100 people could have antisocial personality disorder (be a psychopath). Am I the only one to think that actually that's A LOT - and basically means we've all had encounters with these dangerous personality types.
This has been so fascinating. I have watched tons of these discussions because i just cant get clear on how bad is the narcissist in my life. I think he is covert, but very low on the scale. But i feel so much like i’m in a yo-yo. Any words of advice? And i do have ADHD. Thank you
I've dated a few guy's that said they had ADHD but were more narcissists than anything even memorizing the symptoms to get a diagnosis of ADHD. Gross people
But I think 2 narcs can work together to manipulate and smear another...i.e. criminal activity together, character assassination of the truth teller/whistle blower...expecially when they work together and are both feeling threatened by the whistle blower.....until they are done benefiting from each other at least...
My ex definitely was NPD 💯 but he was also ADHD 🤯
We need more this topic, please
I think if you ask someone you suspect has ADHD and you ask them to see a psychologist, you'd get rejection sensitivity.
Unfortunately I know a lot ADHD people with narcissistic traits, it’s not a rare case
Well if npd is not exposig them selfs in therapy but many people are suffering from their behaviour then how the hell can given statistics be correct?In my opinion (not a proffessional not in that field anyway) there is a lot of ppl with npd and even more "in spectrum" of narcs.
So if the person won’t engage in the tough conversation - or whenever they do, they shut down or deflect or get mean - and you set a boundary finally that you won’t continue in the marriage unless they get some help - and they won’t do it - what I hear is they won’t and there is really nothing more I can do?
And thank you for this - very helpful!
Are only narcissists affraid to be alone?
Are only narcissists the ones who think about 'surviving'?
Are other animals also narcissists when they think about 'surviving'?
Are people not affraid when alone?
Somewhere going alone, living alone?
Is being alone safe in the context of nature?
I have the yummy INFJ, unicorn energy and I’ve been narc bait my entire life.
Me 2 and i'm in shock since i began learning about narcissism. December 2019 while having a bath i realized that my mother is one. I understood immediately that she is not the only one in my family and that my upbringing lead to lots of encounters with narcs without me recognizing behaviours that are abusive.
Another Phone=Another Gf/Supplier G
Transactional, yes. They aren't conscious that they are narcissistic.
They feel justified, entitled to your mind and money. I knew there was something off. But I'm very curious and wanted to understand what this was. It almost killed. But I'm strong and
was able to find my way out. But it took a long time. I didn't want to believe it. I was unique in his life. I'm typical air head. Plus I have an extra sense. It took a while to accept what I was sure of. Broken heart.
👍👍
Yes, from experience especially with ex husband and recent ex boyfriend covert narcs are so damaging and dangerous.
Can someone on the spectrum be a narcissis?
I disagree it’s very common . Most narcs don’t go for help. So they fly under the radar
I remember an ex-girlfriend proudly stating how her aunt told her how her ancestors were all bolshy, pushy people, and she could see no problem with that. She was and is a classic, textbook narcissist.
@ADHDchatter I'm sure I've read that people with ADHD are at greater risk of being drawn to relationships with narcissists, is this a reality?
Funny fact for me : i never liked that flower Narcissus
Narcissus aka Daffodil.
Oops....not saying Alex is a Narcissist, but he kinda got you there. He didn't ask himself if he might be a Narcissist-he asked YOU. And you, Doctor, gave him the answer he wanted to hear 😄
Fascinating conversation.
However 46:48 had me questioning because Kim and Kanye my guy ...
This is my mother in law
Okay well for those of us who have lost a loved one to gun violence/suicide your opening graphic was callous, insensitive and stupid. And as a person with ADHD I thought this might be another channel to visit regularly but here's the thing: reputable psychologists are very wary and very prudent around labels, knowing that they can be misused and misunderstood and soon everyone is going around claiming that anyone who isn't to their liking must be a malignant narcissist.
thank you for this egg metaphor ♥
Also I had a care who was and overt narcissist
I could tell as you began to fidget that your brain was going a mile a minute- worried - "well shit, maybe I'm a narcissist" when he was describing the characteristics. You were very uncomfortable, and so was I.
THEN- I had the same sense of relief when your guest BACKPEDDLED quickly as he saw your discomfort and concern as well. It is amazing the parallels between narcissistic traits and ADHD symptoms.
I'm the 40 hrs in 4 hrs type
I believe a lot of intelligent people are narcissistic. Because they can be above stupid behaviour. And will laugh st or be snotty at stupid behaviour. And are more init for themselves. Because they are not stupid to loose out.
Alex, could you kindly soften, tone down the video intros please? 🙏
Thank you for your channel ❤
I know many couples both with npd, I’m couples counsellor
We need a stock question to detect a narcissist.
Something we can use in interviews so we can avoid danger, especially if we have autism.
Any suggestions?
I'm no expert, just someone who's had a relationship with a narcissist.
I'm just spitballing here, but I would expect something like "tell me about something you f****d up recently" followed up with "what did you do to resolve the problem that caused?"
If they can't think of an answer to the first statement, that'd be concerning. If their answer to the second thing doesn't sound right, that'd also be concerning. I guess the problem with this is it's a bit of a strange question to ask unprompted.
If memory serves, one that I've heard mentioned online (probably by Dr Ramani) is that when a suspected narcissist compliments you on something (it could be anything), ask them why they complimented you on it. If they can immediately come up with a logical, rational reason for the compliment, that's good, but if there's no solid reason behind the compliment or if they're not sure why they complimented you, that's a small sign they might be a narcissist.
For example:
"I love your dress"
"Thanks, why do you say that?"
"Oh, it goes so well with your shoes and earrings" (probably a genuine compliment)
Or
"It's just nice" or "I just like it is all" or "I don't know" (indicative that the compliment is not genuine)
The reality is that, especially with covert narcissists, and especially for us autistic folks, they can be very hard to spot. I'd started learning about narcissism several months before starting a 7 month situationship with one, but only realised she is one 2 weeks after I ended things over her total lack of remorse for cheating. Ironic, and very damaging psychologically. But my point is there's no magic bullet, really it's about weighing and adding up lots of often contradictory clues, which can be nigh on impossible to remain aware of in a romantic situation with the love goggles on.
Good luck out there.
There's no way to weed them out with one question. Unfortunately it's always going to take time. You can usually tell after a few weeks or months depending on how much contact you have with them.
In terms of dating I'm now good enough to detect toxic people after about 3 dates. Not narcissists, but people with subtle red flags. It's not hard if you know what to look for, but it's often very subtle. I suppose I've had 6 years of emotional abuse as training for it so I may as well put those years to use.
@@RedHeadForester Thank you. These are really good questions. Its also really important to learn to get in contact with your feelings and needs. Feel if this person gives you what you need and respects you and your boundaries.
Ask a narcissist:
What would you do to improve yourself?
The NPD will say nothing (they project perfection) or get angry & defensive.
A healthy minded person will have an introspective answer.
I been there and I question my own worth I also attempt to kill my self because I feel so useless because I hurt there emotions I love him so much ever am hurting inside I try my best to not leave him but what happened a call police on me