SUCH A GREAT VIDEO! They all are, but the production value and education just goes up 10x w/each one of these. Thank you SO much for making so overt the import of a rider’s weight - wish I had figured that out earlier when I started. I’m 200lbs and though very athletic, when I started I could not figure out why all the guys I saw in videos were flying around with ease while I was fighting in vein. Turns out, a lot of them are 160 lbs - a night and day difference relative to the size foil I needed (particularly as a beginner). Thanks again, brilliant videos.
Thanks so much, Justin. It took many many missteps to realize the same. Everyone said go smaller, go smaller but my weight and use case needed bigger. Appreciate yourself comment. Thanks again.
@@WakeThief I'm 240# so I've had similar problems choosing the right wakesurf board. I've learned that longer wider boards don't necessarily translate to a easer riding. I can't afford to go through 4 or 5 foils or waste summers (I'm in my mid 50s) looking for the one that will work for me. Thanks for your research I'll consume it and anyone else's to find the right wing for my weight, physical limitations (age) and desire to hijack the wake of a local excursion boat.
Very cool. I'm thinking about designing, 3d printing, and glassing a wing to use on our nearby lake. Large aspect ratio / glider wing looks really cool!
Awesome! If I can be of help, and try a wing for you, please don’t hesitate to reach out. I also be happy to provide feedback on any designs you’re considering. Thank you for the comment.
Awesome video!! This was super interesting and educational 👌 I can’t wait for the lakes to warm up here in Canada ( they are all frozen ) to try my own 3D printed hydrofoil 👍
@@WakeThief I’ll definitely post pictures of it on my instagram account: felix.leveille.5055 ( the profile picture is me windsurfing) I usually put pictures of all my finished projects on there..... I’ll also put pictures on the Facebook group : board & hydrofoil building ( my name is Félix Léveillé) there are already a couple of pictures of my progress on there ! 👍
Just had my first foil rides a couple of days ago, I’m so stoked! Your videos helped so much with choosing what to buy. It’s crazy how different the types of wings felt. Another good video, looking forward to more
@@brockb4452 I ended up with both a Slingshot Infinity 63 and Axis 1050. I started with the infinity then found a great used deal on the Axis soon after. The smaller wing of the infinity was easier to learn on, less lift and less "slippery", but the Axis is way more fun when you figure it out.
Your video is probably one of the best and most informative I’ve ever seen. This looks awesome,but I’m 250lbs, and not sure that this is something that I could do. I’d have some interest in efoiling but The price of entry is just too much
Yes you can! I know a 280lb guy that foils. We just need to be sure you get on a stiff setup with solid connections. Happy to help. Please email me. Devon (wakethief@icloud.com)
Because of you, yes you Mr Wake Thief, I will be trying my first foiling experience next week.😆 I will then look into which manual foil is best for me and my environments (Primarily River, secondly Sea). The big BUT is i want my manual foil to be compatible with the Lift efoil. I am hoping to get the efoil next year. I am not sure how much that limits my choices. I am typically 85kg.
Hi Anthony! That's great. This comment made my day. When you get to selecting a lift foil, please reach out and I can help you figure it out as I've tried both the 200HA (you can see the review on our UA-cam channel) and the 250HA. Good luck! wakethief@icloud.com.
Very nice summary. I’m gonna link people to this when they’re asking for setups. After they have this knowledge we can help guide them to what they want to do.
First the logo and now the channel name change! Get merchandise out now for sure. I recommended 'FoilingNY' in a comment on another channel so I hope people can still find you.
Great info. Need some more help. We charter big boats on oceans and have a RIB to get to shore and fir some fun water sports. The RIB does not make a big wake and the ocean can have some chop. Wake foil looks like a great way to have fun. Need the most versatile set up for beginners. We have all wakeboarded, but still novice. We surf, SUP, etc. Probably no pumping for a while, so just getting up a riding behind the RIB. Probably the biggest issue is the size of the riders. I am tall, and weigh 280. Some of the younger kids are 150 and the wives 130. The slingshot wave V3 looks like it could be a versatile starting board. And while riders may out grow a starting board, it will always have a place on a boat to help introduce people to the sport. Any and all thoughts are appreciated.
I think you’re spot on. Surfing and eventually pumping is an advanced skill. I think you’d be good to get the FSurf rather than Fwake. Will be fun for you and for lighter riders. The boat will just need to go faster for bigger riders. You could also get the infinity 99 (just front wing) for yourself and put it on the Fsurf package when you want to ride. I think this is the right approach. Good call. I’ve owned the three popular slingshot wings (76, 84 and 99) and they will deliver on what you’re looking for.
I just got the ak durable supplies trek foil 😁 2000cm with a moustache (340 i think) and a 71 fucelodge. Was a great ebay deal 😉 $350 came with a 80 cr mast which is a HUGE upgrade in my eyes 😁 looks brand new with a few scratches that i sanded off. Was still matte finish that i sanded off. He said it was a showroom model so didn't have labeling. Just a serial # on mast. Super happy with that purchase 😁 i also got a beautiful homemade board. Facebook marketplace (local) he said homemade but sure looks like production quality to me 🤯 4'10" and about 75l. Blue planet strong box. It's a big board but i plan on electrifying it. I am light, 150lb but plus a 20lb batt and 10lb worth of motor and electronics. 180, 190. Should work out i believe 😁 keep the great videos coming. Any suggestions for prop and motor? I am thinking flipsky water sports bundle. 65161 and 75/200 water cooled vesc. ($500)
Thank you for this video! Bought the Slingshot F-Surf V3 setup /w 84cm front wing to start with! Figure this would be a good starter - and can move into other brands as I progress. REALLY excited for this - ty!
I'm so glad to hear that. We make videos like this to help people get into our sport as easily as possible and it means a lot to get this feedback. Thank you, Michael!
really happy i found this vid. i saw another video of yours and started looking at prices but my first thought was how will it make a difference for a bigger guy like me. was surprised you are at 190(just assumed you were smaller like 160). i fluxuate between 185 and 195 so i could probably just copy your gear and be fine lol anyway, thanks for vid.
If you want to discuss, please reach out ... wakethief@icloud.com. Here's a link to my favorite foil and board: greenhatkiteboarding.com/products/2021-slingshot-dwarftcraft-foilboard?sub_id=ghwt&variant=34778572980357 axisfoils.com/r?id=4ob1e6 We make a small commission if you buy through these links.
So my F one Gravity 1800 has a ton of lift for my modest boat wake, but seems a little slow and draggy. I have had a lot of decent rope less surf rides but can't go endlessly, at least yet. I'm about 220lbs and am looking at the F one Phantom. It has an aspect ratio of just under 7, and the biggest one they have is a 1780. I want to get another F one so I only have to buy the wing. I want to do some pumping but its not my focus. I basically want to surf and play around on my wave. Hoping that will work alright.
I think it will be fine, Hugh. It's hard to know for sure unless one knows the rigidity of the mast, mast/fuse connection, but that tends to plagued some foils when span is >100cm, I looked online and Phantom 1780 is 107cm, so it could be an issue. The second thing is volume / thickness / foil section. Without knowing this or seeing the wing thickness, it's hard to know how it will glide, which is key to long distance pumping, but I think I'm splitting hairs here (the difference between bad and good might be pumping 1 min and 1.5min, as as example). I would go for it, though I had the same logic and went down that path before moving to the 1150. the 1780 is on my try list, so I will be sure to try it now, but I won't be able to give you feedback for six weeks, likely.
@@WakeThief Thanks! It won't have to be a lot better gliding to surf endlessly on my wave. I am putting my order in so I also don't know how long it will be. Thanks again for the response!
@@WakeThief cool- what makes you say that? And is it easier than wake boarding or water skiing if towed behind a jet ski, or are they all about the same in difficulty?
@@WakeThief thanks! I just bought a jet ski so i'm choosing between which of the two to invest in. your video and further research confirmed foiling, so thanks! now I'm watching your vid to decide what to get - the problem is my wife and I will be sharing it at first. I am 185, she is 120 so i'm looking for a good compromise. both of us will be beginners of course, and main use of it will be tow behind a jet ski and maybe in future when we get good enough to natural surf on beach waves nearby. Your video is helping narrow my options- any further recommendations appreciated- thanks!
@brockb4452 I’d still recommend starting with this (infinity 84). You both can ride it. Great beginner setup and well priced. mackite.idevaffiliate.com/idevaffiliate.php?id=102&url=5
Nice vid, super informative. Do people ever downwind point to point foil on lakes? The lake we live on has multiple access points, and get 2-3 ft waves with good distance between them. I windsurf and take our little Hobie Bravo out in the big waves for fun, but the foil looks so smooth and fluid. I guess restarting with no motor assist could be an issue unless you're in shallows right. Keep up the fun adventures and sweet vids.
Thanks Aaron. That’s exactly what we’re trying to do but the wind doesn’t get up enough to give us that opportunity so we have to connect wakes off passing boats. I wish it did!
I'm thinking of doing a Clearwater build. Have you ever used any of their products. I've never done this before and didn't want to spend that much and those seem to be decent cheap route.
Many thanks for your videos! Amazing! What would you recommend? - Weight: 160 pounds (73kilos) - Interest: Wake thief - I can foil the first and second wake of a ski boat. I’m also a competitive water skier Thanks!!
I weigh about the same as you (~72 kg) and am mainly interested in dock starting and pumping, would you think it would be wise to go with the 1010 or even 1150?
I suppose you theoretically add another sheet the that google spreadsheet where you enter your weight and it would suggest different boards for different use cases....
I never comment on videos but this was so well done and helpful I had to tell you. Great work. I'm going to email you as another viewer had a similar question. I hope you can forward the response and don't have to retype everything. :) Thank you!
Hi Wake Thief.. this was a super helpful vidoe!!!.. thanks... I am looking for a set up to do exactly what you like to do.. lake dock start, wake thief and surf small waves.. I am an intermediate foiler and weigh about 165 and was looking at the Roam universal pump kit with the 80cm (small) board... looks like this front wing has 2100 cm2 aspect ratio of 8.53.. would this be a good set up for me? if not can you make a couple of recommendations or at least suggest the front wing size and aspect ratio I need?
Hi guy. Great content ! Great channel name. Ok, here’s one out of left field…I used to sailboard. Still have a few long boards and sails. Could a long board be converted to a foil sailer ? Im190 and boards are probably in the 30lb range…I love diy shit, and working with epoxy n glass. TIA.
Terrific video and well thought out. Very complete and informative. I have one question: If you are wake stealing and go down out in the water, how do you restart? Thanks,
Brilliant question .... the answer isn’t what you wanted to hear ... swim. I’m working on a few ideas for a water start and will share them in the weeks ahead. I wish it were easier. Thanks for the comment and question, Jonathan.
@@WakeThief OK so I thought. And that's fine I guess if you wing foil you can still be a wake thief and let the wing be in neutral but then you've got it when you need it if the wind is strong enough I suppose. But really if you're out wake stealing it's probably not terribly windy anyway so yeah don't go out too far I guess!
It’s a great thought actually. Probably the best possible way to water start. We can thief on windy days too. I’ve seen many folks surf ocean waves and use the wind wing to get back out to the waves. It’s a great idea. Thanks for sharing it
Hi, I'm having trouble deciding on what to buy; do you think you could recommend a build to me? I'll would be using it to pump and wake thief, and would be dock starting.
Great video, thanks! So if I understand you right, the lower the aspect ratio the bigger the surface has to be? My foil has a surface area: 1250 cm2, weight : 790 g, size: 635×250 mm. So the aspect ratio is 2,5! My weight is 63 kg. So I need a bigger foil, right? Is there any formula for that?
I’d recommend area over 1500sqcm and then the higher the aspect ratio the less drag (more glide, easier pumping). Anything over 6 aspect ratio is good enough.
Another great video: 2 questions: Weight measurement should include total weight, ie board and foil as well, not just bw? A big board could add alot of % on total weight. Is there a high correlation between high lift = high acceleration? (Tough question, Probably)
Acceleration has mostly been a function of rear wing size. Include board weight. I don’t usually include foil weight because most are neutrally buoyant.
4:20 (!): You mention your weight, Aspect Ratio, and area, but you never mention Wing Loading, which is easily calculated by dividing the weight of the load by the area of the wing: 86,000g/1700cm2 - 100,000g/2000cm2 = 50g/cm2 = 50,000g/m2 = 500kg/m2
I have watched several of your UA-cam videos. I’m a big dude ( 235 lbs ), I’d like to do similar riding like you do, pump on a lake, behind a jet ski, and behind a boat. I wake surf behind a boat and would love to just do it by myself or behind a small watercraft. I’m looking at the axis foils. What set-up could I get for $2500? Size? I’m looking at your spreadsheet.
We’ve had bigger guys foiling! You’ll be fine. Please email me at wakethief@icloud.com and I’d be happy to help you figure it out. Weight just means you will need a bit more speed to take off.
@@WakeThief what a legend helping everyone with advice. I'm a even bigger than that dude 110kg and learning to Wingfoil and Windfoil (at a school). When it comes to buying equipment Axis or Armstrong is really good idea being- more second hand market and options to buy parts (at least in my area)
Thank you! For bigger riders I’m quite impressed with axis lineup setup of large area; high span wings. If I can ever be of assistance please feel free to email. Wakethief@icloud.com
Great videos. I live just north of you on Lake Champlain near Plattsburgh, NY and seem to be into the same lake activities. However, with a good south wind, waves on the lake can build to surfable 4'ers in a nearby bay. Usually I surf those with a 9' soft top. Is it possible to use the same board/foil to dock start, ride boat wakes, and surf natural waves? Or, would you only need to switch to a higher buoyancy board, and use the same foil?
Hey Chad! I wish our lake got 4’ rollers! You can get one foil but I’d recommend a much shorter board. Let me know if you need help.wakethief@icloud.com
Please email me and we can help spec you one. Wakethief@icloud.com. I know a 280lb guy whose foiling. Just need a stronger mast that’s a touch thicker than most and not as long as most.
This is definitely worth sharing since it would be really easy to buy the wrong thing if you’re not sure what you’re looking for. For instance, to a layman, your pump foil and my kite race foil look kinda the same, but my 525sq cm wing and 104cm mast would be absolutely useless for what you want to do with it and vice versa.
Hi, Thank you so much for your amazing videos-they’ve been super inspiring! I’m looking to get into foil pumping but can’t decide between the new Beta Foil and a regular one. As a complete beginner, I’d love to hear your thoughts. The Beta Foil seems much pricier, and I’m unsure if the fun factor justifies the extra cost compared to a standard pump foil. What would you recommend for someone just starting out? Thanks a ton for your advice-it’s really appreciated! Best, Federico
Hi Federico. I think there’s 3 things you need to consider: (1) If you think you’ll fall in love with this sport, I’d make the investment. I purchased 3 foils before I figured out exactly what I needed. That was not a cost effective approach. (2) The Beta Freefoil is easier to learn on. I don’t think it’s an order of magnitude easier, but definitely much easier, and (3) once you earn your power pumper hat (dock start +1min), you’ll be in search of something more. For me, that was freefoiling. I now wanted to go a long way. That isn’t an option on most entry-level options. The freefoil might cost $2000 more than similar single mast foils, but it’s likely to be the only and last pump foil you’ll purchase. If you see yourself freefoiling, I’d go for it. If you see yourself being satisfied with laps around a dock (or wake thieving), I’d go with one of the single masts I recommend in the Best Foil 2024 video. If you have any more questions, pls feel free to email. Wakethief@icloud.com
So it sounds like you need a different set up for winging vs. surfing the boat wake, vs surfing small wakes, vs. surfing beach waves? You can't do several of those things with the same rig. Is that correct? And will high volume beginner wing boards be only suitable for just that one use? Or do you just need one board but several foils?
Compromises can be made, but in my experience 2, maybe 3, front wings can get every job done nearly perfectly. Best to just get your first setup for whichever one you will do the most.
I am 75-78kg and looking for a flat water foil. Would like to wingfoil maybe or windsurf. I am not looking to buy foils but want to build one for me and my kids...can't really afford foils for 4 kids so do you know some resources where I can find 3D data, profiles or shapes of foils? I do have a CNC router and can vacuum bag wings. Maybe someone knows a forum for diy foils and foil building?
So just bought my first foil and have been riding it for a week now and am not able to pump on it, i can ride the second wave and surf wave and carve. The board that the pro recommended me at the boat shop was Liquid Force Nebula. Front wing ( 1200cm, with a 65mm wing span) I know you really like these axis foil boards but before i buy another do you have any recommendations for me to buy the correct wings to try and help me be able to pump easier? thank you
Great, less questions left before ordering!! :👍 For jumping off a dock and pumping like you do, would you consider a board even shorter than your 3'6" beneficial? Axis sells something similar to your board named "Tray Carbon Foilboard 95cm" and "Tray Carbon Foilboard 110cm" ... and second question: did you try a shorter mast than your 75? Or would a shorter mast not allow that efficient-looking motion of pumping demonstrated in your videos? 🙋♂️
Two excellent questions, Michael. I believe the tray from AXIS would be great. I'd go shorter than 3'6". But probably not much less than 3ft. I have tried 60cm. AXIS 75cm is very stiff, even for large span 1150, so I don't think shorter is needed unless I go bigger in span ... I can only hope :) If you can pump a 60, go 60! I'm so used to 75 now, that I won't go shorter until I have to
@@WakeThief So the "Tray Carbon Foilboard 95cm" with a little over 3ft length it'll be 😊 And regarding the length of the mast, is there anything else to consider beside its stiffness (and weight)? No disadvantage whatsoever in terms of pumping efficiency to be expected when going a little shorter (like to the 60cm or 68cm)?
@@WakeThief does the size of the rear wing (Axis S-Series) have any impact on the glide distance/speed? In terms of agility I assume that the bigger the rear wing, the less agile whilst more stable? 🙋♂️
Yes, rear wing doesn't change glide distance or pump speed too much, as the drag it creates is dwarfed by the front wing, but I do find a bigger rear wing makes it easier to pump, and I've shown that here: ua-cam.com/video/ObG9q1SfIuw/v-deo.html. The rear wing selection is really about preference. A foil carves quite differently from rear to rear wing, but I believe you can get used to a variety of rear wing choices.
Have you ever played around with coatings for the foils? Eg. Wax, hydrophobic (like never wet)? Or differential coatings? Like coating everything except the bottom surface to increase lift? I'm no expert, just a ChemE student who's curious. Cool vids btw! I'd love to get a foil once I graduate and have some cash lol
Awesome Video! I also want to get into Dock Start foiling as the closest lake "it is a nice lake too" is only a few minutes from my home and has tall trees around it so I ussaly drive further to go to a different lake with a longer fetch for wind watersports. The 1300 vs 1150 video was so good I was like 1150 for me all the way "also thinking of the Moses W1100". I am 6 feet tall and 77kg / 170 lbs so I would need a smaller foil to get the same performace as you. But the 1150 just seems like the way to go. Maybe a better question is if you could have an exact % bigger or smaller sized 1150 with the same matched ratio increase / decrease in length, width, height and foil profile. Do you have a guess on if your dream foil would be larger or smaller in %? Specific question but this may help me to determine if the 1150 is too big or perfict for me to foot pump foil. Thanks for your great vids!
Moses W1100 is on my list of foils to try to. Working hard to try to get one to review. If I were you, I'd go 1150. I wish I were undersized for the 1150! I am still scratching my head as to why exactly the 1300 didn't let me pump longer, so hard for me to know exactly what a bigger foil would do for me. If the 1300 was a carbon copy of the 1150 foil section, scaled up the right way, it might be perfect for me if it were 20% more area, but that's just a guess. Good luck!
Hello! Yes, I've tried the 1100P. Working on a video review now. It's great at dock starting and pumps at very low speed. My experience on the water was similar to the Slingshot Infinity 99, which I reviewed on this channel last year. The 1100P is very rigid and enjoyed it for dock starting.
In my experience, the 1100P didn't pump as fast, didn't glide as much (higher drag), nor can it be pumped as far / for as long. It is easier to dock start.
@@WakeThief Thank you very much. Hmmm doesn´t make my decision easier :-) It sounds that the Indiana 1100P would be good as first one to learn the dockstart and than later switching to the Axis 1150. But this solution is a bit expensive
I want to wing foil, but I'm 2m tall and 125kg, it's hard to get info out there. That's 275lbs I'll be starting out on the ocean, it's flat but behind a boat being towed to start with. Can you recommend a wing.
I'm a 170 lbs, kiteboarder. but not a foiler. I want to do exactly what you do. steal waves and eventually pumping behind a boat, dock start, etc. In Canada, its much easier to purchase the infinity 99 from slingshot. What foil do you recommend? you seem like you love the axis. and what size would you say?
Hey Roy! I'm from Saskatchewan originally! Please check out my AXIS 1150 review, where I compare it to the Slingshot 99 (ua-cam.com/video/85ENC6fOpCA/v-deo.html). It worked quite well and would be epic for you at your weight. But once you learn to pump, and can reach 30s-60s on the 99, you'll want a higher aspect ratio wing like the 1150, which I can pump for 2 minutes. At your weight, if you want to wake thief, I'd recommend the 1150. Don't go smaller, unless you want to surf larger wakes, then go to the 1010 (a wing in between the 1150 and 910). Good luck, Roy! Let me know if I can help. wakethief@icloud.com
@@WakeThief Thanks. this helps a lot. The "package" they sell at the local shop is the slingshot wakesurf v3. it has the hard top board with a infinity 76. I talked to the shop expert and he said its a good one to learn on and you can go without a rope because a boat in the 2 3, even 4th wave no problem. is that a good "starter set up?" or should i go straight to the infinity 99?
@@roycheung4963 if you haven’t learn to pump yet, it will be fun no doubt. Once you learn to pump you’ll want something bigger but it takes awhile to learn to pump.
What would happen if I used a wider wing while I’m at a lower weight than the max weight the wing supports. Can I go faster with it if I can pump well enough? Thanks
If the wing area and span go up and the weight stays the same the wing will lift at a lower speed and you can pump slower and save energy and thus pump farther. You can still pump at a higher speed. Did that answer your question?
Awesome video! Incredibly helpful. Do you have any suggestions for me? -155lbs -Small wakes and occasional bigger wake. (Would love to surf small ocean waves at some point too!) -Not too much pumping yet as a beginner. -LOTS of board sports experience. How does board size then come into play?
Hey wake thief, I just customized a set up and was wondering if the board itself mattered? I just selected a 230 dollar wakesurfing board and was going to attach the foil to it and was wondering if that would work? Thanks man!
I've rewatched this video at least 10 times.... trying to learn as much as I can before I pull the trigger on my first foil! I do have a quick question: Do you think your dwarfcraft and 1150 wing is too aggressive for someone who has never foiled before? I'm more so wondering for friends who visit only for a weekend... do you think they will be able to get up after a day or two?
Hey Sean. Pls email me at wakethief@icloud.com. Longer conversation needed! It really depends on how much you want to do it, and if you have prior experience on a board … skateboarding, surfing, … I was a figure skater and the balance helped me. Happy to help.
Would there be much of a harm if I got a big wing? I'm fairly light for my height, about 130 lbs, if I got a bigger wing would it possibly make pumping easier
I don't think so. I wish I had that decision to make and there were wings "too big" for me. It won't be good at high speeds nor surfing huge wakes, but otherwise fun as can be!
Thank you for your videos so much, theres such a lack of information about beginner hydrofoils on the internet. As a 175 lb (79 kg) beginner hoping to prone surf small waves, what type of foil and size would you recommend? Axis doesn't seem to have any low aspect wings anymore, the broad spectrum carves look like the lowest aspect but they are still around 6.
Hey Noah ... happy to help. Please reach out to me at wakethief@icloud.com. I'll ask some experts about ocean surfing AXIS wings and get their thoughts.
Hey Noah. I've been told that the 890 BSC (better turning and earlier lift) or 910 (more roll stable with better pump and glide), short fuselage, 400 rear is a good ocean surf combo, which makes sense to me. The 910 on a short fuse is a nice setup all around, including for the lake.
Yes, it will have more pitch control. If you'd like to spec a foil for yourself, I'm happy to help. wakethief@icloud.com. Please let me know your height, weight, how you want to use it and your boardsports skill level.
I weight 155lbs and I bought Liquid force Nebula 4-2 Wakefoil W/Horizon 160 Carbon Set Package Liquid force Nebula 4-2 Wakefoil W/Horizon 160 Carbon Set Package | 2021. I tried dock starting and didn't get very far. Will I be able to dock start or, am I wasting my time?
My guess based on the wing dimensions is yes, but you will need to run at it and jump onto a moving foil with forward momentum ... thought I've never tried this wing to know for sure.
Hi, I have a somewhat dumb question: Is it really fun to do this on a flat lake when you have no boat? (no waves in my place) Like so much fun that you want to do it regularly? Or will you be exhausted after 5 min and drop the board? I just can´t make up my mind if I should be getting one of these, since they are rather expensive too. Have been watching all your videos though and it sure looks like fun:)
Thanks for the question! Right now, I can only pump for 2.5min. Without a boat, foilers you hand wings to fly around or they dock start and pump around until you drop from exhaustion. It is an awesome workout and surreal experience, but my favorite is to get pulled by jet ski into wakes of passing boats or to dock start and ride the wakes of passing boats. For some folks, dock starting and pumping around is more than enough rationale to own a hydrofoil,
Hey man awesome videos. I’m considering on whether to buy a foil or 3-D print one will it be the same result or would I waste time and money? Also, what is the measurements of your setup? Thanks you so much! Awesome videos!
Hey Matthew! Thanks for the comment and question. Yes you can 3D print it and if wing isn’t too big, it should be strong enough. It will need to be glassed after for strength. I’m not a 3D printer expert but have talked to a few including the now wildly successful 3D Printer Academy and we concluded it would be hard to make it strong enough. My favorite wing is 115cm span and 1700sqcm area. I’d recommend buying a foil unless you’re skilled or willing to put a lot of time and effort in to perfect it. If I can ever help, let me know. Wakethief@icloud.com
Hey Carson. Please email me with your boardsports skill level and how you wanna use it (behind boat/ski, dock start, etc)? Happy to help. Devon. Wakethief@icloud.com
Please email me at Wakethief@icloud.com ... Do you want to use it other than for dock starting? Do you have other board sport experience (wake surfing, snowboarding, surfing, skateboarding, ...)? Thanks!
I have never tried Moses but the 1100 is on my list so I should be reviewing it this spring. The 1000 and 1125 would be too small for me but might be ideal for someone smaller or for someone seeking to surf bigger wakes than I generally can steal.
Hi Donny. I suspect it will be good, and I will try it at some point. I've tried other wings that are slightly bigger in area, and have even bigger wingspan, and found them a bit undersized for wake thieving the smallest of wakes, but certainly still a lot of fun! If I were lighter, it would be the right size. If you want to see what I mean, please check out my Go Foil P180 review. That wing is quite comparable (without knowing the foil sections of either wing, of course).
Really appreciate your content and I hope you are getting some free stuff, you deserve it. You've sold me on the 1150. I want to get my 100 lb teens on it and don't mind getting more wings, should I downsize for them in the same series? Thank you!
@@briansmith207 Hi Brian - Thanks for the note. Please email me. Wakethief@icloud.com. Happy to narrow down and suggest some options! Thanks for the comment. I’ve been loaned plenty of demo gear, and sometimes I’m sent something to keep, but I disclose relationship/arrangement in each video where I discuss/present that item. I love this stuff. Happy to help.
I think the front wing generates all the lift, and the rear wing actually generates negative lift to stabilize you. This is how airplanes work, though I'm not 100% sure this is how the hydrofoil works but it likely is the same.
I’m 12 years old and looking to get into foil boarding what is the cheapest option for me I have the same hopes that you do and i weigh about 80 pounds
Been stuck behind our Bennington pontoon 10-12mph with Slingshot 84cm foil, 24” mast. Can’t seem to let go of rope. 205lb with lifetime experience on ski and wakeboard. Frustrating.
Hey Stephen. In my experience, you will need a larger area and/or higher aspect ratio wing. I have reviewed the Slingshot infinity 99 on my channel. Please check it out if you haven't already. I recommend the 99 because it will be a lower cost test for you than starting with a new manufacturer. When I moved up from 84 to 99, it made a big difference for me. I'm 190lb. Pls let me know if I can help.
@@WakeThief I’ve had my eye on the 99. Thanks for your input. We’ve been staying behind the boat with rope the last summer season and anxious to take the next “step”. Great videos!
Im 200 and ride the 84, 99, and 64 gamma slingshot. Also riden liquid force, tacuma v100, armstrong 1250, 1550, 1850. The 84 flys forever. Its a good beginner wing. You need alot of flight time to get past beginner level. The best foilers have over 500 sessions.
It's a great question. At 170lb, if you'd like the 1150 to perform for you like it does for me, I'd no with the 1010. But, if you want to pump longer/farther and surf even smaller wakes than me, the 1150 can help that. It will just reduce your ability to surf bigger wakes. I hope that makes sense. If I were your weight, I'd go 1150, but it's because I want to fly forever.
@@WakeThief thank you for your answer. I think when i'll start foiling it will not be the only one i'll buy;) I think I will buy 1150 for dock start, surf small wake in my lake and meabe try it on swell too when i'll go on vacation.
That’s more than enough. There’s a sweet spot at about $2000-$2500 to get the best foils, in my opinion. Please reach out, if I can help you spec it. Wakethief@icloud.com
Your video is very informative but the comparison between the axis 1015 and 910 wing is not quite realistic. In fact, I weigh 68 kilograms and have both high aspect wings. I spent a lot of time on this axis foil and I am able to do my dock-starts and pump as long as I am not exhausted (just for the context). In the end, I just want to say that doing a simple weight / area (cm2) ratio is not so representative. In reality there are many more factors to take into account. The 910 wing requires much more energy to pump over time. So for people who are the same weight as me, do not expect to pump for 2min with the 910. One more thing, and I say it for everyone, the level we have is more important to take into account than the weight. Other than that, your videos are great. Keep it up !
Thanks for the comment, Dylan! I think you're spot on regarding skill level. Combined with grit/perseverance, it's the most important. I have to disagree with you though. The 910 has the same foil section as the 1150, so you can use the lift equation to back out the equivalent weight for the 910, as I did in the video. Perhaps I didn't state it too clearly in the video. The 910 for someone at 160lb performs like an 1150 would for me. That said, I would expect that someone at 160lb to be able to pump the 1150 longer/farther than the 910, and I'd expect them to do it at a slower speed because of the larger area (and slightly lower induced drag due to its higher aspect ratio). Sorry for the confusion. The rest of the foil matters too, but not as much as the front wing in my experience. Fuse and rear wing changes the cadence of pumping and the duration/distance. I appreciate you taking the time to write. If I said anything that doesn't make sense, please reach out to me. Foilingny@gmail.com. I appreciate it!
I can’t decide if my heavier weight needs to the high aspect ratio of the Axis or the additional area of the 99. This channel has got me so pumped up to start FOILing and has been the push I need to pull the trigger and buy one!
@@JHahn10 hmmm. That’s a tough one. I have to believe bigger HA wings will be coming that would let you perform like a lighter rider. It might be worth the wait ... given the speed of innovation, this summer even. If you’re anxious to get going. Go 99. Will be great at your weight.
@@WakeThief Thanks, this is great advice, love your channel, watched many many hours of your videos and they are both entertaining and so informative. I really want to get out there on a FOIL but would hate to get the 99 and then see that there is a better option for me next year. Can’t wait to watch this channel explode as this sport becomes more popular!
Thanks Justin! I’m still having a blast. I appreciate the comment and your support. Please don’t hesitate to reach out if I can ever help. Wakethief@icloud.com
Closest to flight? ever heard of Hang Gliding...? Been around for decades, you can fly for hours and hundred miles on uprising air without any engine. Magic stuff.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
This is the most analytical video covering foiling I have ever seen. Fantastic.
Thank you! If I can ever help, please don't hesitate to reach out ... wakethief@icloud.com
SUCH A GREAT VIDEO! They all are, but the production value and education just goes up 10x w/each one of these. Thank you SO much for making so overt the import of a rider’s weight - wish I had figured that out earlier when I started. I’m 200lbs and though very athletic, when I started I could not figure out why all the guys I saw in videos were flying around with ease while I was fighting in vein. Turns out, a lot of them are 160 lbs - a night and day difference relative to the size foil I needed (particularly as a beginner). Thanks again, brilliant videos.
Thanks so much, Justin. It took many many missteps to realize the same. Everyone said go smaller, go smaller but my weight and use case needed bigger. Appreciate yourself comment. Thanks again.
@@WakeThief I'm 240# so I've had similar problems choosing the right wakesurf board. I've learned that longer wider boards don't necessarily translate to a easer riding. I can't afford to go through 4 or 5 foils or waste summers (I'm in my mid 50s) looking for the one that will work for me. Thanks for your research I'll consume it and anyone else's to find the right wing for my weight, physical limitations (age) and desire to hijack the wake of a local excursion boat.
@@jaydee1020 please email me at wakethief@icloud.com. I have a few ideas to help.
I have my pilots license and a lot of the jargon like angle of attack, fuselage wing. It’s literally an airfoil remember air is a fluid.
that's correct, budy
Very cool. I'm thinking about designing, 3d printing, and glassing a wing to use on our nearby lake. Large aspect ratio / glider wing looks really cool!
Awesome! If I can be of help, and try a wing for you, please don’t hesitate to reach out. I also be happy to provide feedback on any designs you’re considering. Thank you for the comment.
Wakethief@icloud.com
Incredible videos. I've watched just about all of them. Thank you!
Thank you, Mike! This comment made my day! If I can help you in any way, please don't hesitate to reach out. wakethief@icloud.com.
Awesome video!! This was super interesting and educational 👌 I can’t wait for the lakes to warm up here in Canada ( they are all frozen ) to try my own 3D printed hydrofoil 👍
3D printed foil! I’d love to see pics when you make it.
@@WakeThief I’ll definitely post pictures of it on my instagram account: felix.leveille.5055 ( the profile picture is me windsurfing) I usually put pictures of all my finished projects on there..... I’ll also put pictures on the Facebook group : board & hydrofoil building ( my name is Félix Léveillé) there are already a couple of pictures of my progress on there ! 👍
Just had my first foil rides a couple of days ago, I’m so stoked! Your videos helped so much with choosing what to buy. It’s crazy how different the types of wings felt. Another good video, looking forward to more
Thanks, Whittaker. I so appreciate you taking the time to comment. Different wings really do change the feel. Glad you enjoyed it
So what did you buy?
@@brockb4452 I ended up with both a Slingshot Infinity 63 and Axis 1050. I started with the infinity then found a great used deal on the Axis soon after. The smaller wing of the infinity was easier to learn on, less lift and less "slippery", but the Axis is way more fun when you figure it out.
This channel is a gold mine
Thank you! If I can ever help, let me know. wakethief@icloud.com
wow that helps me a lot. im using a board that is way to big and for dockstarting my front wing is not ideal...thanks for the video
You're welcome. Yes, a small board is key for pumping and dock starting. Let me know if you have any other questions.. wakethief@icloud.com
Your video is probably one of the best and most informative I’ve ever seen. This looks awesome,but I’m 250lbs, and not sure that this is something that I could do. I’d have some interest in efoiling but The price of entry is just too much
Yes you can! I know a 280lb guy that foils. We just need to be sure you get on a stiff setup with solid connections. Happy to help. Please email me. Devon (wakethief@icloud.com)
Because of you, yes you Mr Wake Thief, I will be trying my first foiling experience next week.😆 I will then look into which manual foil is best for me and my environments (Primarily River, secondly Sea). The big BUT is i want my manual foil to be compatible with the Lift efoil. I am hoping to get the efoil next year. I am not sure how much that limits my choices. I am typically 85kg.
Hi Anthony! That's great. This comment made my day. When you get to selecting a lift foil, please reach out and I can help you figure it out as I've tried both the 200HA (you can see the review on our UA-cam channel) and the 250HA. Good luck! wakethief@icloud.com.
Very nice summary. I’m gonna link people to this when they’re asking for setups. After they have this knowledge we can help guide them to what they want to do.
That a huge compliment coming from you! Thank you.
First the logo and now the channel name change! Get merchandise out now for sure. I recommended 'FoilingNY' in a comment on another channel so I hope people can still find you.
Ha! I hope so too. I have put foiling ny in the video descriptions so search should still work.
Thank you very much, I’ve browsed many many websites without understanding anything. This is really helpful 👍🏼.
You’re welcome, Diego. If I can help you spec a foil, I’d be happy to. Wakethief@icloud.com
I love all of your videos. I wing an sup foil but still find all of these really helpful. thanks for doing these videos.
Thank you! I appreciate the comment. I'm loving the learning and sharing as much as the foiling. Thanks for taking the time to write that!
Great info. Need some more help. We charter big boats on oceans and have a RIB to get to shore and fir some fun water sports. The RIB does not make a big wake and the ocean can have some chop. Wake foil looks like a great way to have fun.
Need the most versatile set up for beginners. We have all wakeboarded, but still novice. We surf, SUP, etc. Probably no pumping for a while, so just getting up a riding behind the RIB.
Probably the biggest issue is the size of the riders. I am tall, and weigh 280. Some of the younger kids are 150 and the wives 130.
The slingshot wave V3 looks like it could be a versatile starting board. And while riders may out grow a starting board, it will always have a place on a boat to help introduce people to the sport.
Any and all thoughts are appreciated.
I think you’re spot on. Surfing and eventually pumping is an advanced skill. I think you’d be good to get the FSurf rather than Fwake. Will be fun for you and for lighter riders. The boat will just need to go faster for bigger riders. You could also get the infinity 99 (just front wing) for yourself and put it on the Fsurf package when you want to ride. I think this is the right approach. Good call. I’ve owned the three popular slingshot wings (76, 84 and 99) and they will deliver on what you’re looking for.
I just got the ak durable supplies trek foil 😁 2000cm with a moustache (340 i think) and a 71 fucelodge. Was a great ebay deal 😉 $350 came with a 80 cr mast which is a HUGE upgrade in my eyes 😁 looks brand new with a few scratches that i sanded off. Was still matte finish that i sanded off. He said it was a showroom model so didn't have labeling. Just a serial # on mast. Super happy with that purchase 😁 i also got a beautiful homemade board. Facebook marketplace (local) he said homemade but sure looks like production quality to me 🤯 4'10" and about 75l. Blue planet strong box. It's a big board but i plan on electrifying it. I am light, 150lb but plus a 20lb batt and 10lb worth of motor and electronics. 180, 190. Should work out i believe 😁 keep the great videos coming. Any suggestions for prop and motor? I am thinking flipsky water sports bundle. 65161 and 75/200 water cooled vesc. ($500)
Thank you for this video! Bought the Slingshot F-Surf V3 setup /w 84cm front wing to start with! Figure this would be a good starter - and can move into other brands as I progress. REALLY excited for this - ty!
That was my first pumping wing! I'll never forget the first time I let go of the rope and propelled myself with the 84. A GREAT WING TO LEARN ON!
@@WakeThief I can't wait! Will post progress videos! :D
Yes. Pls send them to wakethief@icloud.com. In this video you can see the very first time I pumped it. ua-cam.com/video/5XeskRF4jEA/v-deo.html
Lakeside cottage and dock sold separately. I really have to try this.
this is gold. gives me everything I need to know clearly and easily
I'm so glad to hear that. We make videos like this to help people get into our sport as easily as possible and it means a lot to get this feedback. Thank you, Michael!
Great video. Super helpful. Where was this video shot? So pretty!
really happy i found this vid. i saw another video of yours and started looking at prices but my first thought was how will it make a difference for a bigger guy like me. was surprised you are at 190(just assumed you were smaller like 160). i fluxuate between 185 and 195 so i could probably just copy your gear and be fine lol anyway, thanks for vid.
If you want to discuss, please reach out ... wakethief@icloud.com. Here's a link to my favorite foil and board:
greenhatkiteboarding.com/products/2021-slingshot-dwarftcraft-foilboard?sub_id=ghwt&variant=34778572980357
axisfoils.com/r?id=4ob1e6
We make a small commission if you buy through these links.
So my F one Gravity 1800 has a ton of lift for my modest boat wake, but seems a little slow and draggy. I have had a lot of decent rope less surf rides but can't go endlessly, at least yet. I'm about 220lbs and am looking at the F one Phantom. It has an aspect ratio of just under 7, and the biggest one they have is a 1780. I want to get another F one so I only have to buy the wing. I want to do some pumping but its not my focus. I basically want to surf and play around on my wave. Hoping that will work alright.
I think it will be fine, Hugh. It's hard to know for sure unless one knows the rigidity of the mast, mast/fuse connection, but that tends to plagued some foils when span is >100cm, I looked online and Phantom 1780 is 107cm, so it could be an issue. The second thing is volume / thickness / foil section. Without knowing this or seeing the wing thickness, it's hard to know how it will glide, which is key to long distance pumping, but I think I'm splitting hairs here (the difference between bad and good might be pumping 1 min and 1.5min, as as example). I would go for it, though I had the same logic and went down that path before moving to the 1150. the 1780 is on my try list, so I will be sure to try it now, but I won't be able to give you feedback for six weeks, likely.
@@WakeThief Thanks! It won't have to be a lot better gliding to surf endlessly on my wave. I am putting my order in so I also don't know how long it will be. Thanks again for the response!
Is hydrofoiling or wakeboarding more fun being towed behind a jetski?
I’m biased … hydrofoil for sure.
@@WakeThief cool- what makes you say that? And is it easier than wake boarding or water skiing if towed behind a jet ski, or are they all about the same in difficulty?
@brockb4452 foiling is more difficult but more rewarding as you don’t feel the surface of the water and you can surf a jet ski wake without a rope.
@@WakeThief thanks! I just bought a jet ski so i'm choosing between which of the two to invest in. your video and further research confirmed foiling, so thanks! now I'm watching your vid to decide what to get - the problem is my wife and I will be sharing it at first. I am 185, she is 120 so i'm looking for a good compromise. both of us will be beginners of course, and main use of it will be tow behind a jet ski and maybe in future when we get good enough to natural surf on beach waves nearby. Your video is helping narrow my options- any further recommendations appreciated- thanks!
@brockb4452 I’d still recommend starting with this (infinity 84). You both can ride it. Great beginner setup and well priced. mackite.idevaffiliate.com/idevaffiliate.php?id=102&url=5
Nice vid, super informative. Do people ever downwind point to point foil on lakes? The lake we live on has multiple access points, and get 2-3 ft waves with good distance between them. I windsurf and take our little Hobie Bravo out in the big waves for fun, but the foil looks so smooth and fluid. I guess restarting with no motor assist could be an issue unless you're in shallows right. Keep up the fun adventures and sweet vids.
Thanks Aaron. That’s exactly what we’re trying to do but the wind doesn’t get up enough to give us that opportunity so we have to connect wakes off passing boats. I wish it did!
Solid work! I'm fixing to sell my Liquid Force foil to fund a Freedom Foil Board & Axis Foil. I'm 125lbs, so I'm looking at the Axis 910 or 1010.
Thanks. 910 should be epic for you at your weight!
I'm thinking of doing a Clearwater build. Have you ever used any of their products. I've never done this before and didn't want to spend that much and those seem to be decent cheap route.
I’ve been trying to get on their equipment. I’m similarly intrigued. Please share your feedback if you do try it.
Many thanks for your videos! Amazing!
What would you recommend?
- Weight: 160 pounds (73kilos)
- Interest: Wake thief
- I can foil the first and second wake of a ski boat. I’m also a competitive water skier
Thanks!!
Happy to help. Can you let go of the rope and surf without the rope? Can you pump?
@@WakeThief Yes. but no without a wake.
The axis 910 would be great for you.
I weigh about the same as you (~72 kg) and am mainly interested in dock starting and pumping, would you think it would be wise to go with the 1010 or even 1150?
Go 1150 :) I wish I was 72kg. Would let me pump 1150 even slower (and farther)
I suppose you theoretically add another sheet the that google spreadsheet where you enter your weight and it would suggest different boards for different use cases....
That’s a brilliant idea. One other factor is how you want to use it and boardsports skill level, but you’re right, it could probably be automated!
I never comment on videos but this was so well done and helpful I had to tell you. Great work. I'm going to email you as another viewer had a similar question. I hope you can forward the response and don't have to retype everything. :) Thank you!
Thanks for taking the time to share that with us, Chris! It makes my day. Happy to help however I can.
Hi Wake Thief.. this was a super helpful vidoe!!!.. thanks... I am looking for a set up to do exactly what you like to do.. lake dock start, wake thief and surf small waves.. I am an intermediate foiler and weigh about 165 and was looking at the Roam universal pump kit with the 80cm (small) board... looks like this front wing has 2100 cm2 aspect ratio of 8.53.. would this be a good set up for me? if not can you make a couple of recommendations or at least suggest the front wing size and aspect ratio I need?
I'd recommend this setup ... still my favorite ... tinyurl.com/2p9a6w48
Hi guy. Great content ! Great channel name. Ok, here’s one out of left field…I used to sailboard. Still have a few long boards and sails. Could a long board be converted to a foil sailer ? Im190 and boards are probably in the 30lb range…I love diy shit, and working with epoxy n glass. TIA.
I don’t see why not! Foils are soon going to be on PWCs! Thanks for the comment
@@WakeThief …well, actually….heh.
Terrific video and well thought out. Very complete and informative. I have one question: If you are wake stealing and go down out in the water, how do you restart? Thanks,
Brilliant question .... the answer isn’t what you wanted to hear ... swim. I’m working on a few ideas for a water start and will share them in the weeks ahead. I wish it were easier. Thanks for the comment and question, Jonathan.
@@WakeThief OK so I thought. And that's fine I guess if you wing foil you can still be a wake thief and let the wing be in neutral but then you've got it when you need it if the wind is strong enough I suppose. But really if you're out wake stealing it's probably not terribly windy anyway so yeah don't go out too far I guess!
It’s a great thought actually. Probably the best possible way to water start. We can thief on windy days too. I’ve seen many folks surf ocean waves and use the wind wing to get back out to the waves. It’s a great idea. Thanks for sharing it
Hi, I'm having trouble deciding on what to buy; do you think you could recommend a build to me? I'll would be using it to pump and wake thief, and would be dock starting.
How much do you weigh? Do you have boardsports experience?
@@WakeThief I weigh 170 and have a fair amount of boardsport experience
how expensive was the setup your using
Cost him everything
Hello
@@blu2697hello
Great video, thanks! So if I understand you right, the lower the aspect ratio the bigger the surface has to be? My foil has a surface area: 1250 cm2, weight : 790 g, size: 635×250 mm. So the aspect ratio is 2,5! My weight is 63 kg. So I need a bigger foil, right? Is there any formula for that?
I’d recommend area over 1500sqcm and then the higher the aspect ratio the less drag (more glide, easier pumping). Anything over 6 aspect ratio is good enough.
Another great video:
2 questions:
Weight measurement should include total weight, ie board and foil as well, not just bw? A big board could add alot of % on total weight.
Is there a high correlation between high lift = high acceleration? (Tough question, Probably)
Acceleration has mostly been a function of rear wing size. Include board weight. I don’t usually include foil weight because most are neutrally buoyant.
4:20 (!): You mention your weight, Aspect Ratio, and area, but you never mention Wing Loading, which is easily calculated by dividing the weight of the load by the area of the wing:
86,000g/1700cm2 - 100,000g/2000cm2 = 50g/cm2 = 50,000g/m2 = 500kg/m2
I have watched several of your UA-cam videos. I’m a big dude ( 235 lbs ), I’d like to do similar riding like you do, pump on a lake, behind a jet ski, and behind a boat. I wake surf behind a boat and would love to just do it by myself or behind a small watercraft. I’m looking at the axis foils. What set-up could I get for $2500? Size? I’m looking at your spreadsheet.
We’ve had bigger guys foiling! You’ll be fine. Please email me at wakethief@icloud.com and I’d be happy to help you figure it out. Weight just means you will need a bit more speed to take off.
@@WakeThief what a legend helping everyone with advice. I'm a even bigger than that dude 110kg and learning to Wingfoil and Windfoil (at a school). When it comes to buying equipment Axis or Armstrong is really good idea being- more second hand market and options to buy parts (at least in my area)
Thank you! For bigger riders I’m quite impressed with axis lineup setup of large area; high span wings. If I can ever be of assistance please feel free to email. Wakethief@icloud.com
How about and ideal board for the surf. I live near the coast and I don’t want to surf flat conditions
30+L critical, though this isn’t my advice. It’s the advice of real ocean foil surfers. Go bigger if you want to play it safe.
Great videos. I live just north of you on Lake Champlain near Plattsburgh, NY and seem to be into the same lake activities. However, with a good south wind, waves on the lake can build to surfable 4'ers in a nearby bay. Usually I surf those with a 9' soft top. Is it possible to use the same board/foil to dock start, ride boat wakes, and surf natural waves? Or, would you only need to switch to a higher buoyancy board, and use the same foil?
Hey Chad! I wish our lake got 4’ rollers! You can get one foil but I’d recommend a much shorter board. Let me know if you need help.wakethief@icloud.com
Sorry if you mean surf natural waves on a foil the answer to your question is yes!
How big/wide should the front wing be for a guy 260lbs? And some surf experience? Pretty good wake surfer and used to be a sponsored skateboarder
Please email me and we can help spec you one. Wakethief@icloud.com. I know a 280lb guy whose foiling. Just need a stronger mast that’s a touch thicker than most and not as long as most.
This is definitely worth sharing since it would be really easy to buy the wrong thing if you’re not sure what you’re looking for. For instance, to a layman, your pump foil and my kite race foil look kinda the same, but my 525sq cm wing and 104cm mast would be absolutely useless for what you want to do with it and vice versa.
Totally correct! I made that mistake. My first front wing was 700sqcm. Needless to say, it didn’t work as I wanted.
Hi,
Thank you so much for your amazing videos-they’ve been super inspiring! I’m looking to get into foil pumping but can’t decide between the new Beta Foil and a regular one. As a complete beginner, I’d love to hear your thoughts. The Beta Foil seems much pricier, and I’m unsure if the fun factor justifies the extra cost compared to a standard pump foil. What would you recommend for someone just starting out?
Thanks a ton for your advice-it’s really appreciated!
Best,
Federico
Hi Federico. I think there’s 3 things you need to consider: (1) If you think you’ll fall in love with this sport, I’d make the investment. I purchased 3 foils before I figured out exactly what I needed. That was not a cost effective approach. (2) The Beta Freefoil is easier to learn on. I don’t think it’s an order of magnitude easier, but definitely much easier, and (3) once you earn your power pumper hat (dock start +1min), you’ll be in search of something more. For me, that was freefoiling. I now wanted to go a long way. That isn’t an option on most entry-level options. The freefoil might cost $2000 more than similar single mast foils, but it’s likely to be the only and last pump foil you’ll purchase. If you see yourself freefoiling, I’d go for it. If you see yourself being satisfied with laps around a dock (or wake thieving), I’d go with one of the single masts I recommend in the Best Foil 2024 video. If you have any more questions, pls feel free to email. Wakethief@icloud.com
So it sounds like you need a different set up for winging vs. surfing the boat wake, vs surfing small wakes, vs. surfing beach waves? You can't do several of those things with the same rig. Is that correct? And will high volume beginner wing boards be only suitable for just that one use? Or do you just need one board but several foils?
Compromises can be made, but in my experience 2, maybe 3, front wings can get every job done nearly perfectly. Best to just get your first setup for whichever one you will do the most.
And yes. The big board will work for all but you’ll probably want two boards eventually.
The level you are stoked to ride on a lake, what would the level of stoke be if you would live in Hawaii riding ocean waves??
Don’t tease me 😂 ... we both know my head would probably explode 🤯
@@WakeThief With all your knowledge starting foil brand # 30 could make sense..
I am 75-78kg and looking for a flat water foil. Would like to wingfoil maybe or windsurf.
I am not looking to buy foils but want to build one for me and my kids...can't really afford foils for 4 kids so do you know some resources where I can find 3D data, profiles or shapes of foils? I do have a CNC router and can vacuum bag wings.
Maybe someone knows a forum for diy foils and foil building?
Hey Marcus. I understand. Check out Foil.zone. They're doing some amazing DIY stuff.
So just bought my first foil and have been riding it for a week now and am not able to pump on it, i can ride the second wave and surf wave and carve. The board that the pro recommended me at the boat shop was Liquid Force Nebula. Front wing ( 1200cm, with a 65mm wing span) I know you really like these axis foil boards but before i buy another do you have any recommendations for me to buy the correct wings to try and help me be able to pump easier? thank you
The front wing is just too small. If you upgrade to the horizon 150 or 160 pumping will become easier.
Where can you buy one used there is not many on eBay
You can find some here: facebook.com/groups/wingsurfforsale/?ref=share. I also found some on green hat kiteboarding.
@@WakeThief thanks
Great, less questions left before ordering!! :👍 For jumping off a dock and pumping like you do, would you consider a board even shorter than your 3'6" beneficial? Axis sells something similar to your board named "Tray Carbon Foilboard 95cm" and "Tray Carbon Foilboard 110cm" ... and second question: did you try a shorter mast than your 75? Or would a shorter mast not allow that efficient-looking motion of pumping demonstrated in your videos? 🙋♂️
Two excellent questions, Michael. I believe the tray from AXIS would be great. I'd go shorter than 3'6". But probably not much less than 3ft. I have tried 60cm. AXIS 75cm is very stiff, even for large span 1150, so I don't think shorter is needed unless I go bigger in span ... I can only hope :) If you can pump a 60, go 60! I'm so used to 75 now, that I won't go shorter until I have to
@@WakeThief So the "Tray Carbon Foilboard 95cm" with a little over 3ft length it'll be 😊 And regarding the length of the mast, is there anything else to consider beside its stiffness (and weight)? No disadvantage whatsoever in terms of pumping efficiency to be expected when going a little shorter (like to the 60cm or 68cm)?
@@WakeThief does the size of the rear wing (Axis S-Series) have any impact on the glide distance/speed? In terms of agility I assume that the bigger the rear wing, the less agile whilst more stable? 🙋♂️
Going shorter should help pumping efficiency, due to greater rigidity. If the mast is rigid enough, length is about preference.
Yes, rear wing doesn't change glide distance or pump speed too much, as the drag it creates is dwarfed by the front wing, but I do find a bigger rear wing makes it easier to pump, and I've shown that here: ua-cam.com/video/ObG9q1SfIuw/v-deo.html. The rear wing selection is really about preference. A foil carves quite differently from rear to rear wing, but I believe you can get used to a variety of rear wing choices.
Thank you for all the help!
You're very welcome. Always here to help. Just let me know.
Hi, do I really need small waves to surf on? I have a lake close to my place, and I just would like to cruise it by myself
No waves for this one. Flat water makes pumping easier. The flatter the better
Have you ever played around with coatings for the foils?
Eg. Wax, hydrophobic (like never wet)?
Or differential coatings? Like coating everything except the bottom surface to increase lift?
I'm no expert, just a ChemE student who's curious.
Cool vids btw! I'd love to get a foil once I graduate and have some cash lol
I have not, but it's on my to do list!
@@WakeThief right on! Interesting stuff, and thanks for the reply!
Awesome Video!
I also want to get into Dock Start foiling as the closest lake "it is a nice lake too" is only a few minutes from my home and has tall trees around it so I ussaly drive further to go to a different lake with a longer fetch for wind watersports.
The 1300 vs 1150 video was so good I was like 1150 for me all the way "also thinking of the Moses W1100". I am 6 feet tall and 77kg / 170 lbs so I would need a smaller foil to get the same performace as you. But the 1150 just seems like the way to go.
Maybe a better question is if you could have an exact % bigger or smaller sized 1150 with the same matched ratio increase / decrease in length, width, height and foil profile. Do you have a guess on if your dream foil would be larger or smaller in %? Specific question but this may help me to determine if the 1150 is too big or perfict for me to foot pump foil.
Thanks for your great vids!
Moses W1100 is on my list of foils to try to. Working hard to try to get one to review. If I were you, I'd go 1150. I wish I were undersized for the 1150! I am still scratching my head as to why exactly the 1300 didn't let me pump longer, so hard for me to know exactly what a bigger foil would do for me. If the 1300 was a carbon copy of the 1150 foil section, scaled up the right way, it might be perfect for me if it were 20% more area, but that's just a guess. Good luck!
Sweet!
Please build the clear water wood 2300 model
That’s a great idea. I’ve been trying to get in touch with the owner for months now. I’ll try again.
Has anyone tried / compared the Axis 1150 pump foil kit of Wake Thief vs. the Indiana 1100P kit ? Pros + cons please.
Hello! Yes, I've tried the 1100P. Working on a video review now. It's great at dock starting and pumps at very low speed. My experience on the water was similar to the Slingshot Infinity 99, which I reviewed on this channel last year. The 1100P is very rigid and enjoyed it for dock starting.
@@WakeThief many thanks for your answer. Any disadvantages of the 1100P in comparison to your Axis 1150 ? But do you prefer the Axis 1150 ?
In my experience, the 1100P didn't pump as fast, didn't glide as much (higher drag), nor can it be pumped as far / for as long. It is easier to dock start.
@@WakeThief Thank you very much. Hmmm doesn´t make my decision easier :-) It sounds that the Indiana 1100P would be good as first one to learn the dockstart and than later switching to the Axis 1150. But this solution is a bit expensive
I want to wing foil, but I'm 2m tall and 125kg, it's hard to get info out there. That's 275lbs
I'll be starting out on the ocean, it's flat but behind a boat being towed to start with.
Can you recommend a wing.
I’d recommend this. I can’t think of anything stronger. Pls select hope craft. Very strong board. mackite.idevaffiliate.com/idevaffiliate.php?id=102&url=3
This will be for behind the boat. For winging you will need a larger board
I'm a 170 lbs, kiteboarder. but not a foiler. I want to do exactly what you do. steal waves and eventually pumping behind a boat, dock start, etc. In Canada, its much easier to purchase the infinity 99 from slingshot. What foil do you recommend? you seem like you love the axis. and what size would you say?
Hey Roy! I'm from Saskatchewan originally! Please check out my AXIS 1150 review, where I compare it to the Slingshot 99 (ua-cam.com/video/85ENC6fOpCA/v-deo.html). It worked quite well and would be epic for you at your weight. But once you learn to pump, and can reach 30s-60s on the 99, you'll want a higher aspect ratio wing like the 1150, which I can pump for 2 minutes. At your weight, if you want to wake thief, I'd recommend the 1150. Don't go smaller, unless you want to surf larger wakes, then go to the 1010 (a wing in between the 1150 and 910). Good luck, Roy! Let me know if I can help. wakethief@icloud.com
@@WakeThief Thanks. this helps a lot. The "package" they sell at the local shop is the slingshot wakesurf v3. it has the hard top board with a infinity 76. I talked to the shop expert and he said its a good one to learn on and you can go without a rope because a boat in the 2 3, even 4th wave no problem. is that a good "starter set up?" or should i go straight to the infinity 99?
@@roycheung4963 if you haven’t learn to pump yet, it will be fun no doubt. Once you learn to pump you’ll want something bigger but it takes awhile to learn to pump.
@@WakeThief Thank you. Before I spend 2.5k on the slingshot v3, you would recommend this set up? esp the mast length and infinity 76?
What would happen if I used a wider wing while I’m at a lower weight than the max weight the wing supports. Can I go faster with it if I can pump well enough? Thanks
If the wing area and span go up and the weight stays the same the wing will lift at a lower speed and you can pump slower and save energy and thus pump farther. You can still pump at a higher speed. Did that answer your question?
Awesome video! Incredibly helpful. Do you have any suggestions for me?
-155lbs
-Small wakes and occasional bigger wake. (Would love to surf small ocean waves at some point too!)
-Not too much pumping yet as a beginner.
-LOTS of board sports experience.
How does board size then come into play?
Hey Travis. Happy to help. Please email me at wakethief@icloud.com. As long as board is small (
Travis - I just saw your email. That used futura ride engine for $1000 is a good deal as long as everything is in good condition. Good luck!
Hey wake thief, I just customized a set up and was wondering if the board itself mattered? I just selected a 230 dollar wakesurfing board and was going to attach the foil to it and was wondering if that would work? Thanks man!
Hi Matthew. In my experience it will work just fine! Good luck. Devon
I've rewatched this video at least 10 times.... trying to learn as much as I can before I pull the trigger on my first foil! I do have a quick question: Do you think your dwarfcraft and 1150 wing is too aggressive for someone who has never foiled before? I'm more so wondering for friends who visit only for a weekend... do you think they will be able to get up after a day or two?
Hey Sean. Pls email me at wakethief@icloud.com. Longer conversation needed! It really depends on how much you want to do it, and if you have prior experience on a board … skateboarding, surfing, … I was a figure skater and the balance helped me. Happy to help.
Hey what if u had a bigger fin on the back then the smaller one on the front
I wish I had a good answer to this, and don't. I will look into it further. Thank you!
can you make an updated video please. i think in the last 2 years you gained a lot more experience
Yes. Working on it!
Would there be much of a harm if I got a big wing? I'm fairly light for my height, about 130 lbs, if I got a bigger wing would it possibly make pumping easier
I don't think so. I wish I had that decision to make and there were wings "too big" for me. It won't be good at high speeds nor surfing huge wakes, but otherwise fun as can be!
@@WakeThief thanks a ton!
Thank you for your videos so much, theres such a lack of information about beginner hydrofoils on the internet.
As a 175 lb (79 kg) beginner hoping to prone surf small waves, what type of foil and size would you recommend? Axis doesn't seem to have any low aspect wings anymore, the broad spectrum carves look like the lowest aspect but they are still around 6.
Hey Noah ... happy to help. Please reach out to me at wakethief@icloud.com. I'll ask some experts about ocean surfing AXIS wings and get their thoughts.
Hey Noah. I've been told that the 890 BSC (better turning and earlier lift) or 910 (more roll stable with better pump and glide), short fuselage, 400 rear is a good ocean surf combo, which makes sense to me. The 910 on a short fuse is a nice setup all around, including for the lake.
@@WakeThief Thank you!
I only weigh 120 lbs but can I us a long fuselage and will it be easier?
Yes, it will have more pitch control. If you'd like to spec a foil for yourself, I'm happy to help. wakethief@icloud.com. Please let me know your height, weight, how you want to use it and your boardsports skill level.
I weight 155lbs and I bought Liquid force Nebula 4-2 Wakefoil W/Horizon 160 Carbon Set Package Liquid force Nebula 4-2 Wakefoil W/Horizon 160 Carbon Set Package | 2021. I tried dock starting and didn't get very far. Will I be able to dock start or, am I wasting my time?
My guess based on the wing dimensions is yes, but you will need to run at it and jump onto a moving foil with forward momentum ... thought I've never tried this wing to know for sure.
Hi, I have a somewhat dumb question: Is it really fun to do this on a flat lake when you have no boat? (no waves in my place) Like so much fun that you want to do it regularly? Or will you be exhausted after 5 min and drop the board? I just can´t make up my mind if I should be getting one of these, since they are rather expensive too. Have been watching all your videos though and it sure looks like fun:)
Thanks for the question! Right now, I can only pump for 2.5min. Without a boat, foilers you hand wings to fly around or they dock start and pump around until you drop from exhaustion. It is an awesome workout and surreal experience, but my favorite is to get pulled by jet ski into wakes of passing boats or to dock start and ride the wakes of passing boats. For some folks, dock starting and pumping around is more than enough rationale to own a hydrofoil,
@@WakeThief Thanks for the reply! I still did not get one but I plan to try it out this summer again :)
Please reach out when you’re ready. Happy to help! Wakethief@icloud.com
Hey man awesome videos. I’m considering on whether to buy a foil or 3-D print one will it be the same result or would I waste time and money? Also, what is the measurements of your setup? Thanks you so much! Awesome videos!
I am trying to dock start, wake theif, and surf the small waves behind the boat. Also maybe wind surf!
Also I am 160lbs and 5’10 but only 14 and want room to grow if you could help me out it would be much appreciated! Thank you
Hey Matthew! Thanks for the comment and question. Yes you can 3D print it and if wing isn’t too big, it should be strong enough. It will need to be glassed after for strength. I’m not a 3D printer expert but have talked to a few including the now wildly successful 3D Printer Academy and we concluded it would be hard to make it strong enough. My favorite wing is 115cm span and 1700sqcm area. I’d recommend buying a foil unless you’re skilled or willing to put a lot of time and effort in to perfect it. If I can ever help, let me know. Wakethief@icloud.com
thinking about making my own
Cool! Please send me pics. Would love to see it!
I am interested in DYI efoil, any one heared or have info about Foil-lab company from singapore? They sell DYI kits, but cant find reviews?
If I bought the e foil board and the non e foil fins could get the electric add on???
I'm sorry ... I misunderstood ... if you already have a foil, here's a
I don't know what foil I should get I roughly want to do the same things that you do. But I weigh 130 lb do you have any tips
Hey Carson. Please email me with your boardsports skill level and how you wanna use it (behind boat/ski, dock start, etc)? Happy to help. Devon. Wakethief@icloud.com
Hi. Question for wich front wing I sould by? I`m 110 kg, will use it for dockstart and have no expiriance :)
Cheers!
Please email me at Wakethief@icloud.com ... Do you want to use it other than for dock starting? Do you have other board sport experience (wake surfing, snowboarding, surfing, skateboarding, ...)? Thanks!
@@WakeThief Yes I have som snowboarding expiriance in the past century 😁
@@AMisimovic the axis 1150 is what he uses if that is any help
What do you think about the moses w1000 and the armstrong ha1125 for the lake?
I have never tried Moses but the 1100 is on my list so I should be reviewing it this spring. The 1000 and 1125 would be too small for me but might be ideal for someone smaller or for someone seeking to surf bigger wakes than I generally can steal.
@@WakeThief Are you sure the ha1125 would be to small? Its 41inches wide.
Hi Donny. I suspect it will be good, and I will try it at some point. I've tried other wings that are slightly bigger in area, and have even bigger wingspan, and found them a bit undersized for wake thieving the smallest of wakes, but certainly still a lot of fun! If I were lighter, it would be the right size. If you want to see what I mean, please check out my Go Foil P180 review. That wing is quite comparable (without knowing the foil sections of either wing, of course).
I am trying to by a Axis foil but i live in Norway and cant find any websits or stors. any sugestions?
I am trying to find the 1150
Hi Sander - I have two Norwegian friends I’d like to introduce you to! One is the AXIS distributor. Please reach out to me at wakethief@icloud.com
Very helpful. Thank you!!
Cheers mate great information thank you 😁👍
Hi I'm 5'10" 175 lbs is a 1277 cm foil big enough to dock start?
It’s possible, but will be so much easier with a larger foil. >1800
What foil would you recommend for 90kg beginner pumping on lake and not too expensive?
Please check out this video ... it really depends where you're located in terms of pricing. ua-cam.com/video/BxeKeC2JWfM/v-deo.html
Really appreciate your content and I hope you are getting some free stuff, you deserve it. You've sold me on the 1150. I want to get my 100 lb teens on it and don't mind getting more wings, should I downsize for them in the same series? Thank you!
And as I watch this you've answered my question! Lol. Great job!
@@briansmith207 Hi Brian - Thanks for the note. Please email me. Wakethief@icloud.com. Happy to narrow down and suggest some options! Thanks for the comment. I’ve been loaned plenty of demo gear, and sometimes I’m sent something to keep, but I disclose relationship/arrangement in each video where I discuss/present that item. I love this stuff. Happy to help.
I think the front wing generates all the lift, and the rear wing actually generates negative lift to stabilize you. This is how airplanes work, though I'm not 100% sure this is how the hydrofoil works but it likely is the same.
Well said. I agree with you and wish I said it that clearly!
Can be adjusted to a normal surfing board??
No. The bottom of the board needs a track to attach the foil to.
I’m 12 years old and looking to get into foil boarding what is the cheapest option for me I have the same hopes that you do and i weigh about 80 pounds
Check out our budget slingshot video. Options for a complete foil for $1000.
what tail wing should I combo with the 1150? What do you use?
460. More details can be found here: ua-cam.com/video/ObG9q1SfIuw/v-deo.html
Been stuck behind our Bennington pontoon 10-12mph with Slingshot 84cm foil, 24” mast. Can’t seem to let go of rope. 205lb with lifetime experience on ski and wakeboard. Frustrating.
Hey Stephen. In my experience, you will need a larger area and/or higher aspect ratio wing. I have reviewed the Slingshot infinity 99 on my channel. Please check it out if you haven't already. I recommend the 99 because it will be a lower cost test for you than starting with a new manufacturer. When I moved up from 84 to 99, it made a big difference for me. I'm 190lb. Pls let me know if I can help.
@@WakeThief I’ve had my eye on the 99. Thanks for your input. We’ve been staying behind the boat with rope the last summer season and anxious to take the next “step”. Great videos!
You're welcome. Reach out if I can ever help. foilingny@gmail.com
Im 200 and ride the 84, 99, and 64 gamma slingshot. Also riden liquid force, tacuma v100, armstrong 1250, 1550, 1850. The 84 flys forever. Its a good beginner wing. You need alot of flight time to get past beginner level. The best foilers have over 500 sessions.
hello, my question is how to calculate the actual area needed for my weight? i'm 170 ponds. do the axis 1010 good or I need the 1150?
It's a great question. At 170lb, if you'd like the 1150 to perform for you like it does for me, I'd no with the 1010. But, if you want to pump longer/farther and surf even smaller wakes than me, the 1150 can help that. It will just reduce your ability to surf bigger wakes. I hope that makes sense. If I were your weight, I'd go 1150, but it's because I want to fly forever.
@@WakeThief do you think the 1150 would be too big to do wingfoil?
I've only done it once, and I found it fine, but I've heard from others that there are better winging wings, like the 1300 or the Black Series 1050.
@@WakeThief thank you for your answer. I think when i'll start foiling it will not be the only one i'll buy;) I think I will buy 1150 for dock start, surf small wake in my lake and meabe try it on swell too when i'll go on vacation.
I would like an e foil but only have around 3000 to spend
That’s more than enough. There’s a sweet spot at about $2000-$2500 to get the best foils, in my opinion. Please reach out, if I can help you spec it. Wakethief@icloud.com
Where is the Google Doc?
Sorry about that ... tinyurl.com/yc76m7z8
@@WakeThief thanks so much for the great video!
Your video is very informative but the comparison between the axis 1015 and 910 wing is not quite realistic. In fact, I weigh 68 kilograms and have both high aspect wings. I spent a lot of time on this axis foil and I am able to do my dock-starts and pump as long as I am not exhausted (just for the context). In the end, I just want to say that doing a simple weight / area (cm2) ratio is not so representative.
In reality there are many more factors to take into account. The 910 wing requires much more energy to pump over time. So for people who are the same weight as me, do not expect to pump for 2min with the 910. One more thing, and I say it for everyone, the level we have is more important to take into account than the weight.
Other than that, your videos are great. Keep it up !
Thanks for the comment, Dylan! I think you're spot on regarding skill level. Combined with grit/perseverance, it's the most important. I have to disagree with you though. The 910 has the same foil section as the 1150, so you can use the lift equation to back out the equivalent weight for the 910, as I did in the video. Perhaps I didn't state it too clearly in the video. The 910 for someone at 160lb performs like an 1150 would for me. That said, I would expect that someone at 160lb to be able to pump the 1150 longer/farther than the 910, and I'd expect them to do it at a slower speed because of the larger area (and slightly lower induced drag due to its higher aspect ratio). Sorry for the confusion. The rest of the foil matters too, but not as much as the front wing in my experience. Fuse and rear wing changes the cadence of pumping and the duration/distance. I appreciate you taking the time to write. If I said anything that doesn't make sense, please reach out to me. Foilingny@gmail.com. I appreciate it!
Can you surf waves on beaches
Yes
Any advise for 220 lbs? Am am torn between the 99 and Axis 1150/1300
I can’t decide if my heavier weight needs to the high aspect ratio of the Axis or the additional area of the 99. This channel has got me so pumped up to start FOILing and has been the push I need to pull the trigger and buy one!
@@JHahn10 hmmm. That’s a tough one. I have to believe bigger HA wings will be coming that would let you perform like a lighter rider. It might be worth the wait ... given the speed of innovation, this summer even. If you’re anxious to get going. Go 99. Will be great at your weight.
@@WakeThief Thanks, this is great advice, love your channel, watched many many hours of your videos and they are both entertaining and so informative. I really want to get out there on a FOIL but would hate to get the 99 and then see that there is a better option for me next year. Can’t wait to watch this channel explode as this sport becomes more popular!
Thanks Justin! I’m still having a blast. I appreciate the comment and your support. Please don’t hesitate to reach out if I can ever help. Wakethief@icloud.com
Thank-you ! 😃
these things need to come way down in price, wow.
i couldn't believe it when I was looking at the electric ones. they cost MORE THAN A CAR!
very helpful video. thank you, keep it like this
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. I'm trying each video to get better and deliver better content. I appreciate the feedback.
La meilleure vidéo explicative merci 🙏
interesting video! Greetings from Italy
Closest to flight? ever heard of Hang Gliding...? Been around for decades, you can fly for hours and hundred miles on uprising air without any engine. Magic stuff.
It sure is!
Nicely done!
Thank you!