Hey Guys, I got one of the insert numbers wrong at the end of the video. Should be WNMG 3-1-PP in IC907 grade. Sorry for any confusion this caused. Best, Tom
Tom, thanks for sharing your turning tools with us. I think you and I use pretty much the same types of tools, including insert types, and the ISCAR parting tools. My blade is in a tool block and are much thicker. I need to find a one of those thin blades too. I shot some video of my carbide inserts tools as well and hopefully you guys will see that soon. Take care bud!! Adam
Hey Adam, Thanks for the comment. I would like to see some of your carbide tooling as well. Good to see you up on your hind legs again. Talk to you soon my friend. Tom
I like the idea on the holders for the tool holders. I use the chip tray on my lathe as a shelf because I tend to lay my measuring tools on the headstock to keep them clean from chips. The chip tray does get messy with tooling especially if I am making multiples of something that is a multi operation part. I need to fab up a nice rack on my lathe as well. Its a long reach across my Monarch though so maybe I will make it on a rolly cart or something.
Hi Bcbloc, I agree. There are limited spots to get your left hand on one when standing at the lathe. Two places are available. On the headstock or behind the machine. We used to have small tables near each lathe. One third sheet of plywood size. You could just turn a little and reach back with the left hand to grab something. Also gave a place to set your tools and materials. Cheers, Tom
Another episode with mouth watering "the stuff I don't have" in it. Great rack solution. I've already bought a box of 20 Simpson angle plates for the CXA stuff that someday might populate my rack. One must start somewhere. Good advice on the inserts. I received Sandvik's 4 volume catalogue of their insert program. Geez! Who can wade through all the possibilities? You've made the first purchase easy. Thanks.
Hi Jim, I don't know if you heard but its illegal to ship carbide to Greenland. Something about continental embargo's I think. I think we can arrange a cutting tool smuggling ring if need be Cheers, Tom
Ha! That's a good one I haven't heard before. Carbide is so very threatening to the high speed steel guys at the borders. We'll just have to send it to my brother in Reno who knows no better; he just sends it on. Ignorance is bliss. Cheers good man, jim
Unistrut reminds me of the Erector Sets we played with way back in the 1940's when there was NO TV and you had to entertain yourself and perhaps learn how things go together. One cousin who never got the hang of those mechanical things grew up to be a Sociologist. I prefer greasy hands to a greasy brain.
Hi Randy, I'm really liking the holder. It works so good it makes me want to buy more holders so I can expand it. Then I see how much they are and forget about it for a while. Cheers, Tom
Tom, Thanks for this, wading through the carbide jungle is tough for me due to the vast selection out there, I rely on my local tool dealer, but he is still learning too, using me (and others) as a test bed, So carbide inserts are still hit and miss for me. When its good .. it's great, when it's bad ... it's wasted money. Thanks again, Stan
Hey Stan, You are right about that. Add in a couple of holders and the only person thats happy is the tool salesman. Looking forward to your next surface grinding expedition. All the best, Tom
Helps if you can use the same insert style/size in multiple tools. I looked for L and R turn/face tools and two sizes of boring bar that all use the same CCMT insert. (Gee, a matching face mill would really be awesome...) Yep, snow day here too.
11zekim Hi 11, You have the right idea. I use a lot of CCMT type inserts for turning and boring. The ability to switch your inventory of inserts between a bunch of holders cuts down on the outlay. All the best, Tom
oxtoolco And it should be a law punishable by 5 year prison term, that ALL manufacturers of tooling laser etch insert family types on all tool bodies, there is a special place for those that dont in the 9th circle of hell, right next to the ones that remove mattress tags.
I will for sure! I'm in shop class and have made hammers, vices, height gage, and a lot of other things and I was wondering if anyone had a good idea for my next protect. Our shop has lathes, mills, drill presses, all sorts or tools, and we have a CNC mill. I have been in search for some time of a stirling engine plan so I could make one but have been unsuccessful. Thank you.
I use the same parting inserts. Once you go to carbide for parting you wont go back easily. So I've been wanting to make the jump to inserts for turning and questioned a lot of people. No-one, however, seemed to agree with me that the W-series of inserts are better value for the money with 6 cutting edges and all. Most shops seem to use the CNMG's but I don't see it as better. The trouble I've been seeing with W's is that no-one seems to have a WNMP positive insert available?? I like the idea of having a negative insert for roughing and a positive for finishing. Cheers Colin
Hi Colin, Good point you make. The W inserts I showed in this video are actually quite positive because of the chip breaker molded in. What we did many years ago it not try to condense it down to one style. What we did was say okay one for soft and one for harder materials. What we ended up with was the WNMG I showed here and a CCGT high positive polished insert for the soft stuff. Now with the C you get all kinds of options for other materials and holders but at the expense of only two cutting edges. When in doubt go with a positive geometry. Not too may materials that don't like it. All the best, Tom
Thanks Tom, that's some great information, and more stuff to add to the expense sheet. I'm still using High Speed Steel Tooling from the Arthur R. Warner Co. Good quality tooling. Been hesitant to try carbide until I've really figured out the limitations of my Machine in terms of speed and Rigidity!
Hi Dennis, Most of the big manufacturers have a big master chart or index. I would start here www.mcmaster.com/#carbide-inserts/=qkgvqk Then move into Machinery's handbook for additional information. McMaster has done a great job of thinning the insert herd a bit to make it much clearer for the casual user. Cheers, Tom
Hi. If you want to use rest of the corners of CNMG tips you can buy another tool which can be used this for heavy duty facing for example. Then approach angle will be 80° or less. For example CCKNR or CCKNL will match depending on revs direction. Both of this tools have 75° angle so will be 5° relief when is set square. You only need to make sure of shank square size and its lenth.
Tom, Thanks for sharing your knowledge concerning the carbide inserts but I have to ask and I have to figure that both positive and negative geometry are used on the center height line, if you can get twice to three times the use from a single insert that is negative what is the advantage for use of a positive insert? Your Friend in MS, Still Working on the CopShop, John
Hey John, Great question. Negative geometry produces much more tool pressure. So thin or slender small diameter parts tend to push out of the way instead of cutting. Another example might be a dodgy setup where you don't have a great grip on something or its hanging out in the breeze. Think axes and straight razors. Cheers, Tom Ps, CopShop. Sounds like a new UA-cam channel name in the works.
Great video; Just a great site to learn. Why? Tom is just a great instructor, and so natural in front of the camera. As always, thanks’ for taking the time to make this video! And I support this site. ~M~
Hi Secret, Carbide scrap is pretty valuable. I sold a couple of boxes to a guy in Chicago I think when the price was up around ten dollars a pound. Thank the postal gods for if it fits it ships. Cheers, Tom
Hi Tom, thanks for the info on the inserts and holders. One thing I'm still not clear about: what advantage(s) does a trigon insert have over a triangular one? What problem does the trigon solve and/or what specific benefit does it provide? Why do you prefer a trigon over a triangle? Thanks, as always. -Chris
Hey Chris, The angle at the tool tip of the trigon is the difference. Triangles are slightly more acute at the tip and weaker because of this. On the same note triangles can do things that trogons cannot but mainly related to tool clearances. Hope this helps. Regards, Tom
Hi Tom, great video, as they always are. I have been digging around looking at the various recommendations you provided for inserts, mainly as a way to better understand all these options. I must say, this is a head scratcher. I have been looking for the WNMG 3-3-pp IC 907. I can find lots of ISCAR inserts that are close, but cant seem to find the one you are using. I see the WNMG 3-2-pp but not in IC907. I see WNMG 332 in IC907 but is that the same as 3-3-PP, man these tiny differences will give a guy a migraine. Any recommendations?
Hi Tim, My bad. I mistyped the number on the Iscar inserts. It should be WNMG 3-1-PP in IC907 Sorry for the confusion. Late night video editing is my weak story. Regards, Tom
oxtoolco No worries, your commitment to sharing your expertise is a gift to those of us learning. At least I now don't feel like a knuckle head for not being able to sort it out.
Sandvik and Iscar have great sites with ALL of the info on their cutting tools and inserts. on the sites they also have machine tool newsletters and what is "happening". Plus they have feedspeed apps, downloads, etc. I saw a general description in the Machinist Handbook, on tool insert nomenclature/identification...... It's a TNMG....buzz hog....Ferro-Chower....etc. But, do to proprietary trademarks and patents, some inserts are not equatable. Thanks Tom, for info on the tool stand idea: cheap, quick, and secure.
Hi Joe, Great points you make. One of the difficulties is where to start. Looking through the Sandvik book can be intimidating. I send folks to the Mcmaster Carr section on inserts. www.mcmaster.com/#carbide-inserts/=qkgvqk They really did a decent job of simplifying everything and taking away the catchy Sumo buzz hog shearmaster stuff. Now I really want to try a FerroChower. Cheers, Tom
You can get holders that allow using the "off" corner on the CNMG inserts. This works great for facing cuts that you don't have to drive into a corner with and gets 4 more uses out of that insert. Real nice when your a moving a lot of 316 and they are whining about insert cost! 8 edges out of 1 insert pays for the holder pretty quick, wink wink PS that "off" corner is even more robust and holds up great in cases that it can be used
another informative video Tom, thanks so much for taking the time to educate us lower life forms...LOL (p.s. ~ liked your "electrician erector set stuff" comment pretty funny : v ) )
Why do you call it a "Wabble" gear? Is that the name of the gear, or the person who cut it out? I googled wabble gear and couldn't find anything. Did you mean "wobble" gear?
Hi Victor, I'm pretty sure Wabble is correct. There is a reference in the book "Ingenious Mechanisms" that calls it a Wabble. They were used as feed water pumps on some kind of steam engine back in the day. The correct technical name is Cycloidal drive. Cheers, Tom
***** Oops, I didn't mean to come across as a grammar nazi. I just figured there must actually be something called a Wabble Gear. I also am snowed in and I must say that that NASA article is fascinating.
Older texts use different forms and words. I have some of those old mechanism books too. According to the definition, wabble and wobble are variants of the same thing. Both are correct. (Yeah, I looked it up first time I saw it written too. Looked odd :) )
***** Tom's book is ISBN 9780831110314, published 1951. Page 322. Says there the mechanism was in use 70 years prior. BTW that 1964 NASA patent seems iffy on more than spelling. Hermetic rotary motion feedthroughs using a bent shaft in a bellows have been around since forever.
11zekim Man am I glad you guys got this all sorted. Now I have a cool Nasa article to read. One of those space boys probably did the same thing when they looked it up. Interesting in the one in the article is a face gear like a curvic coupling. I am now wondering why they did that. It seems it does not make it any more compact. Perhaps it has to do with sealing it for vacuum. All the best, Tom
hi tom dont want to bang on about compressors i mentioned that hydrovain rotary compressors were good/really quiet i took one apart must say they are really cleaver how they work really good quality last you a lifetime, just noticed john from double boost has one he keeps it under his table
Hi Jon, I have been looking at compressors used in dental offices. They have to run super quiet. I am keeping an eye out for the right deal. Meanwhile I will continue to use my high dollar toolmaker canned air with abandon. Cheers, Tom
Hey Guys,
I got one of the insert numbers wrong at the end of the video. Should be WNMG 3-1-PP in IC907 grade. Sorry for any confusion this caused.
Best,
Tom
Tom, thanks for sharing your turning tools with us. I think you and I use pretty much the same types of tools, including insert types, and the ISCAR parting tools. My blade is in a tool block and are much thicker. I need to find a one of those thin blades too. I shot some video of my carbide inserts tools as well and hopefully you guys will see that soon.
Take care bud!!
Adam
Hey Adam,
Thanks for the comment. I would like to see some of your carbide tooling as well. Good to see you up on your hind legs again.
Talk to you soon my friend.
Tom
I love the tool post rack. Very handy.
I like the idea on the holders for the tool holders. I use the chip tray on my lathe as a shelf because I tend to lay my measuring tools on the headstock to keep them clean from chips. The chip tray does get messy with tooling especially if I am making multiples of something that is a multi operation part. I need to fab up a nice rack on my lathe as well. Its a long reach across my Monarch though so maybe I will make it on a rolly cart or something.
Hi Bcbloc,
I agree. There are limited spots to get your left hand on one when standing at the lathe. Two places are available. On the headstock or behind the machine. We used to have small tables near each lathe. One third sheet of plywood size. You could just turn a little and reach back with the left hand to grab something. Also gave a place to set your tools and materials.
Cheers,
Tom
Another episode with mouth watering "the stuff I don't have" in it. Great rack solution. I've already bought a box of 20 Simpson angle plates for the CXA stuff that someday might populate my rack. One must start somewhere. Good advice on the inserts. I received Sandvik's 4 volume catalogue of their insert program. Geez! Who can wade through all the possibilities? You've made the first purchase easy. Thanks.
Hi Jim,
I don't know if you heard but its illegal to ship carbide to Greenland. Something about continental embargo's I think. I think we can arrange a cutting tool smuggling ring if need be
Cheers,
Tom
Ha! That's a good one I haven't heard before. Carbide is so very threatening to the high speed steel guys at the borders. We'll just have to send it to my brother in Reno who knows no better; he just sends it on. Ignorance is bliss.
Cheers good man,
jim
Thanks Tom nice overview of the tools and tool rack that looks easy peasy no muss no fuss, and lasts a long time and does the job.
Hi John,
I used to hate unistrut, Now I'm in love with it.
Cheers,
Tom
Unistrut reminds me of the Erector Sets we played with way back in the 1940's when there was NO TV and you had to entertain yourself and perhaps learn how things go together. One cousin who never got the hang of those mechanical things grew up to be a Sociologist. I prefer greasy hands to a greasy brain.
John Bare You got a laugh out of me on that one.
Best,
Tom
I too was trying to come up with a way to mount the tool holders now I have more ideas thanks. yours looks real nice.
Hi Randy,
I'm really liking the holder. It works so good it makes me want to buy more holders so I can expand it. Then I see how much they are and forget about it for a while.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom,
Thanks for this, wading through the carbide jungle is tough for me due to the vast selection out there, I rely on my local tool dealer, but he is still learning too, using me (and others) as a test bed, So carbide inserts are still hit and miss for me.
When its good .. it's great, when it's bad ... it's wasted money.
Thanks again,
Stan
Hey Stan,
You are right about that. Add in a couple of holders and the only person thats happy is the tool salesman. Looking forward to your next surface grinding expedition.
All the best,
Tom
Helps if you can use the same insert style/size in multiple tools. I looked for L and R turn/face tools and two sizes of boring bar that all use the same CCMT insert. (Gee, a matching face mill would really be awesome...)
Yep, snow day here too.
11zekim Hi 11,
You have the right idea. I use a lot of CCMT type inserts for turning and boring. The ability to switch your inventory of inserts between a bunch of holders cuts down on the outlay.
All the best,
Tom
oxtoolco And it should be a law punishable by 5 year prison term, that ALL manufacturers of tooling laser etch insert family types on all tool bodies, there is a special place for those that dont in the 9th circle of hell, right next to the ones that remove mattress tags.
Great video, I will defiantly be investing in some carbide tooling as soon as my lathe is back together.
Hey Typer,
Well Saddle up pilgrim. You can move to the big boys table soon.
All the best,
Tom
I will for sure! I'm in shop class and have made hammers, vices, height gage, and a lot of other things and I was wondering if anyone had a good idea for my next protect. Our shop has lathes, mills, drill presses, all sorts or tools, and we have a CNC mill. I have been in search for some time of a stirling engine plan so I could make one but have been unsuccessful. Thank you.
Always like how you give use the Metric dimensions. Thanks for that Tom Great clip too.
Hey Steve,
Thanks for the comment from down under.
Cheers,
Tom
Awesome! I've been hoping for a closeup of the tool rack!! Thanks! :)
Hey Blue,
Thanks for the comment. The tool rack is awesome. Don't know why I didn't try this before.
cheers,
Tom
Tom, Just the sort of information I've been looking for. What mistakes would we make if it weren't for guys like you. Thanks so much.
Ron
Hi Ron,
Thanks for the comment.
All the best,
Tom
I use the same parting inserts. Once you go to carbide for parting you wont go back easily.
So I've been wanting to make the jump to inserts for turning and questioned a lot of people. No-one, however, seemed to agree with me that the W-series of inserts are better value for the money with 6 cutting edges and all. Most shops seem to use the CNMG's but I don't see it as better. The trouble I've been seeing with W's is that no-one seems to have a WNMP positive insert available?? I like the idea of having a negative insert for roughing and a positive for finishing.
Cheers
Colin
Hi Colin,
Good point you make. The W inserts I showed in this video are actually quite positive because of the chip breaker molded in. What we did many years ago it not try to condense it down to one style. What we did was say okay one for soft and one for harder materials. What we ended up with was the WNMG I showed here and a CCGT high positive polished insert for the soft stuff. Now with the C you get all kinds of options for other materials and holders but at the expense of only two cutting edges. When in doubt go with a positive geometry. Not too may materials that don't like it.
All the best,
Tom
There are so many things I could and would learn from you.
Hi Elite,
You just keep showing up. There is plenty more where all this came from.
All the best,
Tom
Thanks Tom, that's some great information, and more stuff to add to the expense sheet. I'm still using High Speed Steel Tooling from the Arthur R. Warner Co. Good quality tooling. Been hesitant to try carbide until I've really figured out the limitations of my Machine in terms of speed and Rigidity!
Hi Robin,
Remind me again what equipment you have?
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco I have a Grizzly G0709 14 x 40 lathe and a Grizzly G0722 Mill
Thanks for all the info Tom, I'm going to get started on my rack soon.
As for the inserts, Do they have a poster type chart available you know of ?
Hi Dennis,
Most of the big manufacturers have a big master chart or index. I would start here www.mcmaster.com/#carbide-inserts/=qkgvqk
Then move into Machinery's handbook for additional information. McMaster has done a great job of thinning the insert herd a bit to make it much clearer for the casual user.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi. If you want to use rest of the corners of CNMG tips you can buy another tool which can be used this for heavy duty facing for example. Then approach angle will be 80° or less. For example CCKNR or CCKNL will match depending on revs direction. Both of this tools have 75° angle so will be 5° relief when is set square. You only need to make sure of shank square size and its lenth.
Hi Radoslaw,
I have seen these holders. They would be a good solution to maximizing the use of the CNMG inserts. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom, Thanks for sharing your knowledge concerning the carbide inserts but I have to ask and I have to figure that both positive and negative geometry are used on the center height line, if you can get twice to three times the use from a single insert that is negative what is the advantage for use of a positive insert?
Your Friend in MS,
Still Working on the CopShop,
John
Hey John,
Great question. Negative geometry produces much more tool pressure. So thin or slender small diameter parts tend to push out of the way instead of cutting. Another example might be a dodgy setup where you don't have a great grip on something or its hanging out in the breeze. Think axes and straight razors.
Cheers,
Tom
Ps, CopShop. Sounds like a new UA-cam channel name in the works.
Great video; Just a great site to learn. Why? Tom is just a great instructor, and so natural in front of the camera. As always, thanks’ for taking the time to make this video! And I support this site. ~M~
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the comment and support.
cheers,
Tom
ive got a bucket of inserts that came out of a local car engine factory when it was shut down i can just about pick it up
Hi Secret,
Carbide scrap is pretty valuable. I sold a couple of boxes to a guy in Chicago I think when the price was up around ten dollars a pound. Thank the postal gods for if it fits it ships.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom, thanks for the info on the inserts and holders. One thing I'm still not clear about: what advantage(s) does a trigon insert have over a triangular one? What problem does the trigon solve and/or what specific benefit does it provide? Why do you prefer a trigon over a triangle? Thanks, as always. -Chris
Hey Chris,
The angle at the tool tip of the trigon is the difference. Triangles are slightly more acute at the tip and weaker because of this. On the same note triangles can do things that trogons cannot but mainly related to tool clearances.
Hope this helps. Regards,
Tom
Hi Tom, great video, as they always are. I have been digging around looking at the various recommendations you provided for inserts, mainly as a way to better understand all these options. I must say, this is a head scratcher. I have been looking for the WNMG 3-3-pp IC 907. I can find lots of ISCAR inserts that are close, but cant seem to find the one you are using. I see the WNMG 3-2-pp but not in IC907. I see WNMG 332 in IC907 but is that the same as 3-3-PP, man these tiny differences will give a guy a migraine. Any recommendations?
Hi Tim,
My bad. I mistyped the number on the Iscar inserts. It should be WNMG 3-1-PP in IC907 Sorry for the confusion. Late night video editing is my weak story.
Regards,
Tom
oxtoolco No worries, your commitment to sharing your expertise is a gift to those of us learning. At least I now don't feel like a knuckle head for not being able to sort it out.
Tom,
If you wanted to cut (turn) the teeth off of a cast iron gear, interrupted cut, what cutting tool would you use?
Hi Ron,
I'd grab the WNMG I showed in this video. It really is a pretty versatile insert.
Cheers,
Tom
Sandvik and Iscar have great sites with ALL of the info on their cutting tools and inserts. on the sites they also have machine tool newsletters and what is "happening". Plus they have feedspeed apps, downloads, etc. I saw a general description in the Machinist Handbook, on tool insert nomenclature/identification...... It's a TNMG....buzz hog....Ferro-Chower....etc. But, do to proprietary trademarks and patents, some inserts are not equatable. Thanks Tom, for info on the tool stand idea: cheap, quick, and secure.
Hi Joe,
Great points you make. One of the difficulties is where to start. Looking through the Sandvik book can be intimidating. I send folks to the Mcmaster Carr section on inserts. www.mcmaster.com/#carbide-inserts/=qkgvqk
They really did a decent job of simplifying everything and taking away the catchy Sumo buzz hog shearmaster stuff. Now I really want to try a FerroChower.
Cheers,
Tom
You can get holders that allow using the "off" corner on the CNMG inserts.
This works great for facing cuts that you don't have to drive into a corner with
and gets 4 more uses out of that insert.
Real nice when your a moving a lot of 316 and they are whining about insert cost!
8 edges out of 1 insert pays for the holder pretty quick, wink wink
PS that "off" corner is even more robust and holds up great in cases that it can be used
Hi Gent,
Good point. Knack Knack.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom, fun as always! I think those parting tools are an amazing design considering what is expected of it... :o]
O,
Hi O,
I know how I would feel getting my nose jammed into a piece of rotating steel. Unhappy is the word that comes to mind.
Cheers,
Tom
Fire up my check book, After my wife gets through with it, I am handy caped.
another informative video Tom, thanks so much for taking the time to educate us lower life forms...LOL (p.s. ~ liked your "electrician erector set stuff" comment pretty funny : v ) )
Hey Paul,
If I would have been on my game I would have used the more endearing term "Spakrtrician"
Cheers,
Tom
Why do you call it a "Wabble" gear? Is that the name of the gear, or the person who cut it out? I googled wabble gear and couldn't find anything. Did you mean "wobble" gear?
Hi Victor,
I'm pretty sure Wabble is correct. There is a reference in the book "Ingenious Mechanisms" that calls it a Wabble. They were used as feed water pumps on some kind of steam engine back in the day. The correct technical name is Cycloidal drive.
Cheers,
Tom
***** Oops, I didn't mean to come across as a grammar nazi. I just figured there must actually be something called a Wabble Gear. I also am snowed in and I must say that that NASA article is fascinating.
Older texts use different forms and words. I have some of those old mechanism books too. According to the definition, wabble and wobble are variants of the same thing. Both are correct. (Yeah, I looked it up first time I saw it written too. Looked odd :) )
***** Tom's book is ISBN 9780831110314, published 1951. Page 322. Says there the mechanism was in use 70 years prior.
BTW that 1964 NASA patent seems iffy on more than spelling. Hermetic rotary motion feedthroughs using a bent shaft in a bellows have been around since forever.
11zekim Man am I glad you guys got this all sorted. Now I have a cool Nasa article to read. One of those space boys probably did the same thing when they looked it up. Interesting in the one in the article is a face gear like a curvic coupling. I am now wondering why they did that. It seems it does not make it any more compact. Perhaps it has to do with sealing it for vacuum.
All the best,
Tom
hi tom dont want to bang on about compressors i mentioned that hydrovain rotary compressors were good/really quiet i took one apart must say they are really cleaver how they work really good quality last you a lifetime, just noticed john from double boost has one he keeps it under his table
Hi Jon,
I have been looking at compressors used in dental offices. They have to run super quiet. I am keeping an eye out for the right deal. Meanwhile I will continue to use my high dollar toolmaker canned air with abandon.
Cheers,
Tom