Grind a face trepanning tool for the lathe
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- We hand grind and demonstrate a high speed steel face trepanning tool for the lathe. This particular geometry tool leaves a center core of material that can be used for another part. Trepanning is an energy efficient type of hole cutting that removes an annulus (ring shaped) of material without converting the entire center into chips like a drill. This geometry can also be used for face groove oring seals.
Nicely done, I especially enjoyed the part where you got the chip breaker right and decided to quit before bozo showed up. I usually never quit until it is too late. lol
awesome man saved my day literally. don`t need the ring but have to make a lot of o ring grooves. 100% agree on developing the skill of grinding hss and knowing how to homebrew cutting fluids too. thanks tom. take care. pete
Thanks Tom, another excellent and informative video. I actually liked the no guard grinder, simply because they get in the way, and really, you're supposed to be in control of the tool, not the other way around.
Great video Tom! I love using these types of tools.
Hi Tom
New to your vids.i was directed to you by BlondieHacks.I have a part to make involving surface grooves and thought back to my days as a machine operator when I used trepanning a lot.
But that was back in the 60,s(not 1860)and it was all set up for me as an operator by the setter.Your video brings it all back beautifully.
Thanks a lot and keep em coming.
Very interesting for me: not only to make rings and save material, but also to make frontal grooving, that is what i have to do now! So super thanks from Italy !! Alberto
Thank you for the thorough explanation and example.
My dad and I got talking about drills. I made a joke about the medical practice of trepanning and he said there was a similar workshop term using a lathe.
Found your video and we both learned something today. This is really cool. Thanks.
I remember spending way too much time on trepanning tools when I was training.We were taught to leave as much material as possible for the 'outer' curve then 'match it' to diameter required but include 7 deg clearance. Our tutor could be a right ass sometimes. Setting 0.010"~0.015" above centre gives some extra clearance and sometimes a better cut. Angle grinder would have been a great thing to have back then
SWEET IDEA. Thank you Tom, I definitely will put this too to use. Thank you for posting this as well as the hundreds of other videos that you have produced for us through the years. Your expert machinist skills coupled with thinking outside the box is a great boost to all who view your channel.
I've actually been needing to grind one of these for o-ring grooves on a face, but haven't been brave enough yet. This guide is just what I needed!
Very good video. I’m still at it after over 50 years. One thing I make my apprentices do is grind their own tools(sometimes). They seem to hate for doing so but they thank me later. It helps in learning visualization skills. Thanks.
Very important
Next time you want to fine tune a chip breaker, use a 1/4" shank mounted chain saw sharpening point. You get 3 or 5 in a blister pack. You get better finishes and the grinding striations align with the chip flow. And you can doctor up a dull tool up on the lathe.
Hi Forrest,
I have little experience with chain saws and never knew such a tool existed. It always amazes me the tools I didn't know I needed.
All the best,
Tom
Look here for chainsaw sharpening stones.
www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=chainsaw+sharpening+stones&_sacat=0
Lotsa choices, lotsa radii. Not expensivve
Tom, EXCELLENT VIDEO! I've previously searched for a video on this tool (& came up empty), particularly for a quicker way to cut a round out of square plate stock, without having to spend soooo much time cutting the square corners off a chip at a time (think pulleys). Pay no attention to all of the safety complainers, or the confused comments about terminology or grinding/red hardness... Definitely the best trepanning bit video on the Tube! Thanks for taking us along.
Very cool. I've watched a number of videos using one of these, but none that made one. Thank you. Now I need a cut off tool.
Nice demo, Tom. Very similar to how I do it, too. I use the same type of tool for a recurring job I do for a Coleman lantern parts business. If you look inside the fuel cap on an older (pre 1970) Coleman white gas lantern, you will see one of the types of parts I make for them. There is a brass insert inside the fuel cap, held in by a screw, and that brass insert has a groove for a rubber gasket. My tool grind to make that groove is so much like what you show here, but smaller, as needed.
I just happen to have an order of 600 of those parts in the shop right now. Trepanning my can off. :)
For some of the gents below who mentioned having a hard time cutting a chip breaker on the grinder, try holding your tool bit in a vise and use a Dremel tool with a thin grinder blade. It is a little easier to control, for me, anyway.
dcw56 Thanks for your added hint of using a dremel to create a chip breaker! Makes good sense especially if you are grinding on a small bit.
great video Tom. I like the idea of using the right angle grinder with a cut off wheel to save time !
great example of practical machining using advanced tooling techniques and frugal methodology.
Hey Tom you your giving away all of my grinding stunts ether way that's an awesome lathe tool
Tom You are one smart guy with exceptional bench skills.
Thanks for this useful video. I’ve been pondering how to cut rings from 2 inch dia phosphor bronze for several days now. In general I hate the waste of time and material from boring large holes in anything, so I’ll be using this technique as often as I can.
Neat! It's always a pleasure to spend some time listening to a guy who really understands what he's doing. I hope someday to work in a place where there are people like Tom Lipton around.
Great video Tom!
I use this technique making 4" dia. PET seals that are.08 cross section. I end up with a 3.62 dia, chunk of material left that other parts can be made from.
ATB, Robin
Hey Robin,
Do you grind yours at an angle similar to what I showed or do you sprinkle some Renzetti pixie dust on your to make them cut 20x depth? Thanks for stopping by.
All the best,
Tom
Hey Tom,
I am lazy and I like carbide so I use the micro100 "LC" series brazed groove tools and just add about .010" back taper and radial clearance on one side of the tool. the rest is already ground. I orient the tool the same general direction you have yours with just a few thousandths of clearance tilt over the length of the carbide. Of course ceramic lapped with 3 micron on the cutting end. No chip breaker as I find it unnecessary at carbide speeds and flood coolant.
ATB, Robin
Catching up on things I had missed. Very nice job explaining how and why you grind a high speed tool for a special job. Makes me want to go out to the shop and play with the lathe for a while.
Take Care and Stay Safe.
Bob
Makes sense after seeing a pro do the magic. Lot of great information on tool geometry and what to look for. Thanks
Nicely ground toolbit. When i was an apprentice in RDN, I were only tought to grind toolbits. As you say, anything is possible, and even today, allmost 40 years on, I hardly ever uses an insert.
Nice and handy. A definite advantage to a shop which knows how to make or select the best tool for the job.
Excellent video! Thanks. I made similar tools for cutting large holes in the face of a half inch plate but after watching this video I suspect my next tool will function better.
That clears up a question I had for a long time. A friend gave me some HSS tools when I bought my first Myford and one was this tool, but he couldn't tell me what it was for. The only time I used it, it was as a parting off tool.
Thank you for covering this in great detail, I have had mixed success with trepanning but this demonstration gives me confidence.
Thank You Tom! I cannot express how much I learned from this video. Of course I'm just wanna-be home machinist. My next door neighbor is real machinist and gets tired of my constant requests for information.
73, Bob
Very Nice, I like how you explained the need for clearing the outside surface of the of the tool. it is a real neat solution. Not to change the subject, but changing the subject. I want to tell you that I really enjoyed the video on the differential screw. I hope that you have more videos where you make tools that use that principle. I liked how the screw controls very fine movements over short distances. The only complaint I have about your videos is that there are not enough of them. Keep up the good work. P. S. I met you at the bash (6/24) and I hope to come and visit you at your shop some day. I'll definitely call first and make sure that you have some free time. I promise to not spend all day checking out the shop (:-).
needed to learn how to make that tool for future jobs. PS thanks for the couple of items I purchased from you at the Bar Z swapmeet. Used the mike a few times already. Still need to install the high pressure gage.
Lol There you go . Not many machinists no how to build a cutter like this anymore . Great job . Old Tool Maker
JT Hay Fort Worth Texas
Fantastic... I once did it using a hss power saw blade that was broken on some brass material for training of some trainees.. Glad to get some new idea from you. Thanks for sharing 🙏🏻
Thank you Tom. Elegant simplicity is always great
Nice tool grinding, Just in time for me I'm making some bearing race compressors out of 0-1 tool steel and wanted to save the center of the stock for another project, this will be perfect.
Thanks for the detail,
Eric
You certainly made it look easy. Thanks for the video.
I made a small groove bit for the seal on a air gun barrel talk about small and fragile LOL I enjoyed your video Thank you for taking the time I never thought about making a ring but now I know if I need one
Hey, Tom, great video. I've done this in a mill but never thought of it as a way to economize on expensive round (or hex!) stock. Very practical. Thanks again.
Lot of people think HSS is no longer a viable option ...how wrong are they . I've made so many different styles of tools using HSS . Great video Tom (I'm a wee tad late to the party )
Very informative video Tom; great as always. Just seeing that in action was giving me some ideas about possible applications. Thanks!
Tom, Excellent video! This lesson will really come in handy, well done my friend!
Great video. I can see this being useful. I am not sure why I have never considered using a but off wheel on tool bits before. It certainly is a lot faster than grinding to get the rough scape.
I'm most familiar with deep hole trepanning after seeing a number of machines at an auction. One machine could drill an 18 inch hole 19 FEET deep, if I remember correctly. Apparently it is used in the oil/petrochemical industries to make extremely large pipe with very heavy walls.
Nice job Tom. It was lovely to see the chip curling away so smoothly from a shop made tool. It reminded me of when I was making hand planes some years ago and the pleasure I got when the plane produced a long, thin, curling shavings.
B
Extremely useful video, both for the trepanning and the hint on tool grinding. Thanks!
Enjoyed that lesson. Thanks for sharing!
Must of been reading my mind. Exactly what I need!!
Great tip Tom, many applications, O-ring grooves springs to mind, I've also used trepanning to cut large holes in 3mm plate clamped on a face plate in the lathe works like single point annular cutter. Regards Ralph
We once used a "face groove" carbide insert tool for a project at work. Basically the exact same thing you just made except I think the manufacturer was a little embarrassed of the depth capable. I think we needed 8 pieces and would use an insert and a half on one part, not particularly difficult material either. I think we ended up relocating the op on the next batch and milling the faces for the o-ring seats in one of our live tooling lathes.
great video as always.
Great information and tutorial Tom. Enjoyed learning something new today.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Thanks Tom. Liked the video subject and also the video format. Cheers.
Little gem for the mental tool kit there Tom, cheers :)
Good video, learn something new with every video you put out. Thanks for sharing
I enjoyed that Tom - good to see HSS being used - we home shop chaps seldom have the larger lathes capable of getting the best from insert tools. Tried trepanning on some aluminium round stock a while back - it got interesting when I got more than 0.500" deep ... sticky stuff and the fine honed edge still got gummed up - thankfully I didn't need too many rings.
detailed and precise explanation....I should sketch the blank cobalt as you do to make the grinding easier....
Wow: a new word, a new tool bit design and a new technique. Very good lesson.
BTW- You had a good ringside seat for the Abom/Fenner lathe chuck competition.
Great lesson!
Thanks Tom, I just did some trepanning today. I didn't grind the tool at an offset as you did but I can see the benefit to the offset.
Are you David r8 from hobby machinist?
@@bettytherussiantortoise2808 yes that’s me.
@@TheWrate I’m Braeden P from hobby machinist
great that you posted this! I need to do something just like this and was puzzling over the tool geometry. TYSM!
now I know what this is called haha. annular cutting, face grooving and trepanning
That's a neat trick Tom! I'll have to lock that a way in the old noggin. I work with a guy that saves used carbide grooving inserts and regrinds them for special jobs. It's always cool to learn something new like that.
Nice job on the Trepanning tool, It is all new to me ,but i like it.
Amazing that there is so much to learn. This was informative and knowing that I can cut tool steel with an angle grinder is a big help. I love the Flexovit 0,8mm thick cutoff blades which makes cutting steel something like cutting butter compared to even a 1.0mm thick blade. Nice video for sure. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Jim,
These were Walter Zip cut discs. The best of the best in my opinion. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Thanks Tom for showing this... got just the project needing me to grind one!
Being subscribed to Tom's channel is like having a pocket index. You may see him do something years ago and at the time think that's cool. Then when you need it you think how did Tom do that again, let's look it up.
Thanks for the demo Tom. I've heard of this method but never seen it in action. Cheers
Thanks Tom, heard about lathe trepanning a long time ago now I will have a clue when trying to make one , thanks for the cutting disk tip.
Tom,
Great demo of making and using a trepanning tool. At the end I noticed a card for the etching press. Any news on the progress of that project. I'm amazed at the level of detailed hand work you are putting into that project.
More coming soon.
Cheers,
Tom
Great solution to that problem! Nicely done!
I was most impressed..... (newby guy with this machine type. I like your casual approach. Thanks...keep up the good work!
Great video and very clearly explained and demonstrated. Thanks for posting this Tom!
Great tip and demonstration! Thanks Tom!
Thanks Tom. That'll come in handy.
Great demonstration. I thought that I was the only one that used a cut-off tool to rough out a tool bit.
Best video you have ever posted! Useful info.
When I think of trepanning, I think of putting holes in someone's skull, which usually uses some sort of annular cutter not unlike a hole saw. I suppose you could do the same thing on a lathe if you had an annular cutter of the right size mounted on the tailstock.
Cadwaladr prt a hole in some one's head ? lol
A doctor would make a jig for it, it takes a while to set up otherwise with the screaming and struggling and such.
Chris Anderson actually that is what it's called when they put in burr holes to do surgery or relieve intracranial pressure, it's called trepanation.
Marcus Merrick I know I was joking that you are using a lathe to do it
The verb trepan derives from Old French via Medieval Latin, from the Greek noun of trypanon, literally "borer, auger". Evidence of trepanation date back to the Neolithic period in the form of of cave paintings and human remains. It is the oldest surgical procedure for which we actually have archaeological evidence. At one site in France, remains have been found from around 6500 BCE, that's 8500 years ago! Makes you wonder about the saying "It's not brain surgery"
Always an interesting time watching you Tom. enjoyed the tour of the high energy physics lab you did great to know our high tech is being serviced by American professional machinists
awesome video Mr. Tom
That was awesome! Thanks for showing us how it's done!
Simply AWESOME .. I don't have one Tom , Going to make one ASAP !! Thumbs up ..
Tom
great demo and comentery
Will
Thank you mr Lipton
Ian
South Africa
Brilliant tutorial
Just learnt something new Tom thanks mate love all your videos.
Didn't know that's what it was called, but done it myself in the past worked very well, nice to see a true pro working with H S S. 👍
Woodworkers use similar techniques to save material when turning bowls on the lathe. They can get two or three bowls out of the same block.
Very nice Tom, enjoyed.
W/S's tooling division, Manchester, makes a series of trepanning tooling that is very versatile. Trepanning tools may also be made from braised on carbide cut-off tools. Spelling courtesy Microsoft. However, brazing requires a rigid machine. If chatter is encountered, try removing the top-jaws, and running from the masters. The removal of 2-1/2" of overhang can make all the difference. I used to occasionally make beer fittings for the Olympia brewery, and trepanning face grooves in red brass, and SS, was commonplace. The finishes are easily food grade. Even on loose, old dogs. Mark
Thank you for an other informative Video. I am new at metal working and love these instructive videos.
Great video Tom. I can always count on learning something in every one of them. I've been waiting to see you do more with your lapping series. Please don't let the Bozo's and their comments/arguments dissuade you from doing more on the lapping plates you made. I want to see them being put to use and what they will do. Please???
Blind monkeys can find nuts too Tom. Nice video, and you make a good point about knowing how to grind the tool you need when you need it. You can use a trepanning tool in combination with friction drive to make disks out of thin materials as well, very useful info. Thanks!
That's very useful. I think I have one of those tools but I didn't know what it was!
Good subject, Tom. I learned something from this video. Thanks very much for sharing.
Super useful! Got me out of trouble for which very many thanks!
I was looking exactly the same tool.I remember David wilks trepanning tool
Thanks Tom, a new skill for me! Thanks again!
Hi Tom . Thanks for your informative channel . I sometimes use a small ball shaped diamond burr , to make an indent , where you put your positive relief , at the front end of the tool . this causes the shavings to go concave and pull away from the job .
Another excellent video Tom, it was very informative.
Nice job Tom 👍🏽