I specifically sought you out to listen to your opinion because of your "Flawed Realist" character breakdown of Motoko. I am... pretty much broken and can't make up my mind about SAC_2045 S2. I wanted to love it, I wanted to hate it and now I can't do either of those. (Anyone reading past this point please note that I will be really heavy on spoilers.) There are a couple of details that annoyed the hell out of me. (Everyone had a plotarmor, until suddenly Purin did not, Motoko and Bato made the dumbest mistakes in the chase scene, like literally opening up a bullet proof door of the van in the middle of a gunfight while a VIP lied on the floor just behind them unable to even dodge, etc. The most annoying detail was Esaki not having a ghost - the ghost is not the same as a soul, and while the real Esaki died, we do know of at least one machine having a ghost in the franchise.) These are just these: details. They bugged me, I went on, watched the rest of the show. Boy was I surprised. After Toguse rejoins the show, the pacing just got perfect, the plot rises the stake with every passing minute, the cinematography was on a whole different level after the first season, Esaki 2.0 actually introduced real posthumanist dilemmas, the military and political aspects were really good and served the worldbuilding well, etc. And then came the ending. I don't think I raged this much on an ending. Like... ever. To avoid any confusion, I am familiar with Orwell's work, understand how the double think would relate to the philosophical problem the show centered around, and understand how N is a solution for the problem the AI was set out to solve. I do understand that Motoko was responsible for more than herself, and reseting the world to it's previous state would have risked a nuclear war between Japan and the AE. I still don't believe any iteration of Motoko's would have chosen double think over reality. Motoko is the fighter who tore herself apart before she admitted she can't open that panel on the tank's back. I don't think any of the previous Motokos would have admitted defeat - or even would have cared about defeat in face of a choice. And it's even heavily implied that Motoko wasn't alone in this decision - Batou actually knew everything, and thus probably was in the same situation and made the same choice. N is in a constant state of artificial tranqulity. It's essentially slavery justified by giving nice dreams to the slaves. It's not just admitting total defeat either. Esaki and the posthumans called this a critical point in the human evolution. But there was no evolution there. It was a couple of parasites influencing the whole of the human race. Like those funghi or wasp larvas that take over the host insects' brains. To be fair, the ending scene and the homage to the original movie was pretty well done. I felt really emotional even as I was raging away for the decision that is for me unjistifiable. And I want to hate it so bad, I want to tell that this is a bad ending... But it actually makes me think about what I want for myself. I consider myself a transhumanist, I was following the movement for two decades now. There's a real life part of the transhumanist movement called the posthumanist abolitionism, which aims to defeat suffering in a literal sense. The movement wants to technologically erase the experience of suffering. I never agreed with this vision, as negative feelings are crucial parts of the human experience, and they are here within us for a reason. Motoko made the abolitionist choice. She denied the capability of human suffering and thus cripled everyone's chance to make their own decisions about a better world. So while I can not justify Motoko's decision in any way, I do acknowledge that the ending is really smart. It's not a '"bad" ending, it's an... infuriating one. But all in all... this is the only iteration of Ghost in the Shell that I probably will not watch again.
I'm interested to know why you think the Major didn't pull the plug? I know the ending was intentionally ambiguous, but I personally think she did pull it.
@@Coolguy98765 is it ambiguous though? When she first wakes up in double think and thinks she's in a mindmaze, Batou is shown to be letargic and preoccupied. IMHO this shows us that Batou at this point already knows about the double think, actually figuring it out sooner than the Major. (Probably because he succumbed to the virus earlier and had some time to experiment with his new reality.) When we cut back to the HQ after plug scene, the crew seemingly forgot about Purin. She doesn't just introduce herself to give some ceremony for her return, she actually hands over her resume, telling us that the crew doesn't know about her - while the President shaking hand with Aramaki tells us that the crisis is averted. Logically both can not be true. If the crew defeated the Posthumans, they've all met Purin before and thus should remember. Only Motoko and Batou seem unhappy. Batou tells the Major that they both carry the burden - and this tells me that only the two of them actually knows what happened, so the rest of Section 9 isn't debriefed about double think at all. Which means, the operation didn't end. They are all in the artificial nice dream, their "own video game", and only Motoko and Batou are aware of it. Motoko bails because she can not bear to watch the crew traped in a dream. A dream where Section 9 defeated the Posthumans, the American Empire doesn't start a nuclear war, where Purin didn't die because she never was there to begin with, etc. The too perfect outcome. If she did pull the plug, we'd have to come up with an alternative explanation for most of these events. Why did they not remember Purin? Perhaps the Posthumans deleted all memories about her. It's completely possible within the Ghost in the Shell universe - but there were no signs of this. Why is Batou preoccupied? Perhaps it really is just burnout. But these are presumptions. Occam's razor would tell us that the narrative that requires less asumptions is probably the one that's true.
I tend to think to be N was initially a choice and thus the major did not pull the plugs. It was not her place to invalidate other's choice. Are there 2 separate realities? Was the Major N or in Nspace to show her the experience/ reality . Some of my most favorite brain candy.
@@sweetpotataopiepie9253 but as far as we know it wasn't a choice for the majority of the people. N became an infection - just how everyone on the team has been infected at some point. Motoko in earlier iterations was a radical individualist. She believed in people taking responsibility for their own actions, ideas and even feelings. Leaving literally the whole of humanity subjected to an infection is just... not like her. There are hints for her personality and beliefs through every iteration of the franchise, but might favorite might be her speach in Arise: The New Movie. The trailer sums it up perfectly. "Are you willing the sell your ghost for a sake of some uniform standard? Sacrificing those less fortunate than you are? You've been all given cyberbrains and ghosts to guide your actions. If you want something from others you have to find something to give in return. Build your future. Follow your ghost." Not pulling the plug is, for me, essentially what she warns us against in this monologue. The uniform standard. Also, in the original movie, Togusa asked Motoko why she hired an almost completely human member to a squad that was exclusively cyborg before. Her answer was something along the lines of "uniform systems are vulnerable, they can be wiped out by a single virus attack". So individuality for her isn't just a value, it's a survival strategy, and a diversity of solutions is necessary for her to be valid. She chose inaction to give up the fight and thus birthing a uniform system. A system that also has a single point of failure (the virus that is in everyone's cyberbrain). And as a final argument I'd quote myself from my original post. N is kept in an artificial tranqulity, obliterating the capacity for negative emotions, thus cripling humanity's ability to undo the damage. Without negative emotions, everyone playing in their perfect little dreamworlds, people are forevermore denied the ability for conscious choice. So if Motoko would wanted to respect personal choice, she shouldn't have had taken that choice away from everyone for all eternity. This might be an extreme interpretation, as both her and Batou are self-aware within double think, so other people might come to their senses sooner or later, and might even change how the world works. But I personally doubt it. Now that I think about it, isn't that the plot of Matrix...? People waking up from an artificial dream? (Only the machines in the Matrix had the sense to keep human suffering as an integral part of the system. They even explained how people didn't fair too well in the first Matrix, which was an artificial dreamworld, similar to double think.)
@@GergelyGyurics Is Batou in Motoko's double think even real? Purin tells Motoko that everybody gets their own vision, which would mean that Batou and Motoko don't neccessarily share the same double think vision. Everybody might be totally on their own in their own vision, doing their jobs in a way that they overlap with others' visions, but that is about it. Was Motoko ever out of double think? Or was she still caught in it, and Purin/the AI told her what she needed to hear to stay in double think? It's total slavery, and the slaves are happy, because they don't have the option to be sad anymore. I didn't actually get why the Posthumans called it an evolution, it's basically stagnation. A human caught in that kind of reality will never achieve anything anymore, simply because the desire to achieve something always comes from the need to better yourself. If humans don't have that need anymore, there will be no more evolution, which means life ultimately becomes meaningless. Also it wasn't the peoples' choice, otherwise they wouldn't have needed a Room 101. There is a lot I didn't like at all about these two seasons of Ghost in the Shell, starting with the crude, partially very lazy animation style (I always prefer mostly hand-drawn over CGI generated, especially when it's done so poorly like in this show), the unresolved storylines (who was the girl in the schoolgirl uniform who saved Toguse when the members of N wanted to send him to Room 101, for example?), the (actually kind of wrong) interpretation of 1984... oh, and Purin was annoying as hell. And there's actually very little I did like. I only watched the 2nd season out of boredom and could have done without it. The ending is bad, not on a How I met your Mother bad level, but kind of lazy and unneccessary. And it's a definite ending to the franchise.
I liked it and I think it was worth it. This season in particular really reminded me of SAC 2nd GIG with the involvement of the US as antagonists and the focus on not just philosophical content but also politics.
TL;DR I've finished both season a couple months ago! Back in 2020 I didn't watch the First Season (only some critics from it), because I already knew that I'm only gonna get the full story with the Second Season, so I've waited two years for the whole package. Was It Worth The Wait? Well... yes but actually no. While the story was interesting with the Post-Humans and the Economy Problems/Sustainable War, to me it didn't really felt original (not like the OG SAC Series). True, I've never read the book "1984" (nor "The Catcher In The Rye" or any book from Yukio Mishima - the guy Patrick Sylvestre is based on - for that matter...), but even if I would do that (while maybe rewatching 2045 too), I don't think that it would change too much about how I feel about this new series. Because to me, GitS 2045 felt like a pointless/inferior version of 2nd GIG on steroids. And there's a lot of things that I'm confused and mad about. I'm going to write down 10 of my problems with this new series: 1. Where is Azuma and Proto? What happened to them? Why did no one from S9 mention them? I really wanted to see more of Proto. He felt unique and I wanted to know more about him. And I know that Asuma was an original character from the manga and I can probably learn a lot about him if I just (finally) read the manga anyway, but still. I know that OG SAC was two decades ago (old fans grow up or die, new fans coming, etc.), but throwing out already established characters in the trash like "who cares" is disrespectful to the OG Series and to the old fans in my opinion. 2. Purin and Standard are terrible! Did they really thought that replacing Proto and Asuma with them is a good idea? Standard is a pointless character and it's totally clear that the only reason he's included is political correctness! Comic relief? He was pathetic! I admit Purin had some interesting moments (I especially liked her backstory, because with it, we got a reference to the OG First Season), but the way she acted, it was so unprofessional and childish and she just doesn't belong to a team like S9! And what's with that Ending? Is it implied that she wil become the "new Major"!? GTFOH! 3. It was established in Solid State that Aramaki can no longer walk normally and he needs a cane. In 2045 he's supposed to be like 75-80 years old and all of a sudden he doesn't need a cane anymore. Now I know that it's just a minor thing, but still they could've explain this small detail. Someone could've ask him about it and he could just reply "I changed my legs to prosthetic" (even though as far as I know Aramaki wasn't into cyberization, other than the essential cyberbrain). Also I feel that Aramaki should've been different in this series. Instead of still "being in the game", he should've been an old man in his deathbed (kinda like his friend he visited in Solid State), giving his last thoughts and orders to S9 and having a funeral for him in the end. But I know the devs don't have the balls to kill off any member of S9 ;) 4. Why was S9 disbanded? Didn't they receive a lot of budget after 2nd GIG? Did Kayabuki mess something up? And why was Batou the first one to leave for America? I thought he always wants to be by Motoko's side. I think a prequel movie, taking place in 2039 (when S9 was disbanded) would be a good idea to explain a lot of things. 5. It's been two decade and I still know nothing about Borma! What's his backstory? How did he join S9 in the SAC Universe? Ishikawa (and Pazu for that matter) falls into this category too, but at least I know about him that he served in the war with the Major and it's kinda implied that he was somewhat of a mentor figure to Motoko. To be continued...
6. The female characters are terribly designed in this one! And why does Motoko (and Purin for that matter) looks like a 15 year old? She's supposed to be around 42 now (she was born in 2003)! I understand if she doesn't want to look like a middle aged woman, but those late 20's - early 30's bodies she used in the OG Series were much better and more fitting for her profession and personality! 7. John Smith is a pointless character! At first he appeared interesting to me, I thought (even though he was "ripped" from Matrix) he might be a good spiritual successor to Gouda. But when it was "his time to shine", S9 just grabs him and puts him in a "freezer"! So dissapointed! 8. Takashi Shimamura is a bad GitS villain! Seriously! Are you trying to tell me that a 14 year old boy found out how to create world peace? At least they should've made him older to make it more believable! Besides, his looks aren't really original! His head/face, body shape and overall style looks like Aoi's, while his 2nd Season attire and plans are very similar to Hideo Kuze's! Anyway I feel like that he should've been one of the kids, who got kidnapped during Solid State, giving him a more interesting backstory... I could go on about him, but I leave it here for now. 9. Why there's almost no references to the OG Series? Why couldn't they give us some answers? Again, I know that it's been almost 2 decades and I know that GitS is not about "explain everything to the audience", but I would've liked some closures and cameos. I mean things like maybe a cameo from Aoi, as he gets visited by Motoko (and maybe other members of S9) in the national library, maybe even getting help from him to stop the Post-Humans. I know that it was kinda hinted that he's suffering from Cyberbrain Sclerosis, but if he's dead by 2045, the devs could've give us a hint about it! Or maybe even a return of the Puppeteer. Giving us a chance to learn some more about him... Not to mention that after all the hard work Kuze done, we still don't know what happened to Dejima and it's occupants. Did Kuze (if it's possible that he actually didn't die and uploaded himself to the Net) manage to bring that 3 milllion people into cyberspace and the artificial island (some time later) became a ghost town? Did Dejima become an independent state and started to prosper the way the people who lived there (including that 3 million who may not went into cyberspace) wanted? New Tokyo is nice and all and I understand why it gets so many attention in 2045, but at the same time, it's kinda sucks that Dejima doesn't gets any mention. It's like the artificial Budapest (my hometown) sized island never existed! 10. And finally, to me, the biggest dissapointment is that the developers didn't bring back Kuze! To me it's such a missed opportunity! I mean him being the "Father of the Post-Humans" would've made sense! The Ending of the 1st Season even hinted that he might return! The Blue Rose in the cube... Blue Rose is a symbol of a love that can't be fulfilled! But if not bring him back (I guess Kamiyama wants to keep his fate a mystery forever...), then at least make some goddamn references to him! I was dissapointed that Motoko didn't fold a single paper crane during 2045! I actually would've loved to see a scene where Motoko goes to Dejima and visits a memorial/statue of Kuze (built by the refugees) and leaves a paper crane there! Hell, if they would've made a scene where Motoko bash in Suzuki Sato's head (the CIA Agent, who overloaded Kuze's cyberbrain with Micromachines), I would rate this new series 10/10 XD One can only dream... To wrap this up, I'm gonna say that I won't consider this new series canon to the OG SAC Series! I'm going to treat it like Arise, like it's a separate universe. I actually started to write a GitS SAC Fanfiction (though I don't know when it will be done...). It's gonna be my own 3rd GIG. Anyway, I hope the next GitS will be more mature and less political correct. I also hope that it's gonna be 2D again, but if they keep the 3D CGI style, then I hope that they're gonna improve a lot on it! Until next time, Production I.G!
Although I didn’t love the ending I still thought the season was incredibly good and visually phenomenal especially the use of the tachicomas but I think they did do a little thing in terms of the title of each episode… I think they kind of combined the standalone and the complex together… with the first part of the title being the standalone aspect of the episode and the second title being the complex. I think the episodes with Togusa really bared that out… Again I can’t say how impressed I still am with the tachicomas… absolutely cool and impressive during Chase scenes but their personalities especially in that back story arc they’re just the best! lol
Yes, the animation holds it back a little, but if you follow the story its really a Ghost in the Shell story through and through. You can not get that deep cyberpunk expensive anywhere else.
Glad to hear you liked it. I'll be honest and say that I havnt really thought about Gits or anime in general for a bit because I've been focusing more on other animation like the Owl House, Kipo and Infinity Train. But I've been keeping up with and loving your videos still, and I trust your word on anything Gits more than anyone else. I remember thinking 2045 was alright but on the lower tier of Gits related stuff. Its good to hear season 2 improves a bit, I'll definitely have to check this at some point. Kinda sad to hear the Major isn't as important, but I'm happy they didn't mess up her character and she's still the same awesome leader of Section 9.
I definitely enjoyed this season really awesome 🤩 👍🏿 not gonna lie I’m not sure 🤔 how I feel about the ending maybe I just need to watch again but I am glad 😃 it didn’t end on a cliffhanger like the first season . Great video
Agreed, the finale of the first season has been cleared up in a bit of a confusing way. This confusion then translates to the ending of the second season. As I reply to you I am able to understand more and more about how this double think theory actually works whilst at the same time staying lost and confused as to the full extent of how it actually works and when exactly it started working. It's provocative in the sense that it's very all over the place whilst also having this indirect and logical correlation within the entire shows narrative. Thus its both a mess and a masterful execution of an existential topic. Thank you for watching!
Personally I think she left the plugs in the Kid’s head and people are still stuck in their own personal fantasy. To me that sounds like imprisonment having everything go your way with out problems. Life is not like that problems help us better understand the world around us. I would pulled the plugs and shot thing that was pretending to be a kid/human. Sorry kid life isn’t supposed to be dreams. There are reasons for it wrongs and goods.
I’m not sure about that but I can definitely see what you mean. It’s definitely a possibility and maybe even 🤔 a hint to where the story could go next. I’m not 💯 percent on that given how I took the ending of season 2. But at least we got a more fitting ending this time around unlike season 1 which I believe just sorta ended. But thanks for bringing that up it is still interesting to think about.
Great reviews (I took your advice and watched your Season 1 video first)! I binged the entire series the last 3 days. I really DID NOT expect to like it. I skipped season 1 the first time around because well, it looked awful and the word on the street was it was bad, but it was very satisfying, especially season 2. Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex is a very special anime for me. It was the first anime I watched after the more accessible stuff on Adult Swim and Toonami back in 2003 (Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Yu Yu Hakusho, Ruroni Kenshin), and the first time an anime truly made me go "Woah". I probably haven't watched it in 15 years, but I need to revisit it after watching SAC_2045. I loved S1E7 with Batou and Room 101 with Togusa, and even where they took Purin. I agree with you about the Major, she felt like a background character, which I didn't mind because they did a great job with Batou and Togusa. Just still a bit mind-blown as to why they chose the 3D CGI. Binging it all, I honestly didn't notice the upgrades in season 2. I'll have to go back and look closer. Anyways, subbed! I'm pumped to go through your channel. I have a SAC_2045 video up on my channel and am working on a spoiler/ending discussion next if you're interested. Keep up the great work!
Thank you very much for taking the time to view both videos! It's fascinating to see one actually want to go back and see things in a different light. I'll also definitely check your uploads out as it's always interesting to see other people's perspectives on certain entertainment.
@@atoko9004 I'm the same way. I get really excited to binge videos on a topic after I post a video because I stay completely away during the whole process so I don't get influenced with ideas.
If she did, how does the re-introduction of Purin to Section 9 work? Kusanagi only employed double-think for that specific section of people's memories?
The music is obnoxious af and cues at THE MOST corny plot beats. Tonal shifts in the narrative waffles between taking itself too seriously and being jarringly goofy at inappropriate moments. Lots of incessant hand holding and constant repeating. Nonsense characters blink into the history of members in Section 9. Can't say I'm enjoying it but will grit to see the finale for what it's worth.
Gonna be honest and say that I really enjoyed both seasons of the show. Tbf, I didn't know anything about Gits before besides having seen the movie years which may have lead to me enjoying this more than the average fan of the universe. Also I really didn't mind the 3DCG and I'd even go as far as saying this is, at least for me, the benchmark for 3d anime (the exception being the barren landscapes which really can't be excused). I don't really know if I found the ending to be satisfactory but the show as a whole was definitely entertaining to watch
There are no stand alone episodes but there are stand alone esque episodes. The tochikomas looking for purins origin, Togusa showing up in tokyo. Purins plot was ok with the callback. But the fact that she was the catalyzer she was the one bringing it all together was bad writing. You have a squad with people who have different skills and they make a new one. The clown had no reason being there and brings in the question of how armies work in this universe. Animation or rather the quality was better. Post humans dodging bullets is the dumbest thing. You can't dodge a bullet. And even if you can there are always guns who can fire more bullets faster. The opening and ending are great. But the story was bad. There was a real lack of military knowledge on the writers part. I don't want more of this.
Thank you for leaving your feedback and opinion on the show! I did forget to mention that the tachikoma episode did somewhat act like a standalone episode however ultimately it was a drawn out episode that was there to finally give backstory to Purin and to invoke a sense of loss for the team of Section 9 until her revival. Hence feeling less like a standalone episode that casually explores more of its world and instead acting as a checklist with some charm sprinkled on top. I'd also say the Togusa episode is not a standalone episode at all, it's meant to reveal to us what has been happening to him since his disappearance and where he went, this being a a place that then plays an important role to the rest of the story. His room 101 plot also clears up the way double-think works. Thus if we take all of these topics of Togusa's story into consideration, it most definitely lacks much resemble to the often personal and isolated nature of standalone episodes. You bringing up clown was also a very valid argument I myself brought up but I wouldn't say it puts into question how the military functions. As Clown and his teams participation during the operation was led by the American Empire and were purposefully sent out to check whether the posthumans having to rest was in fact true. I believe they act more like a suicide squad that was there just to confirm said assumption, even being called "sacrificial lambs" by Saito. Lastly, it's quite difficult for me to say dodging bullets isn't possible, as nor is having ones brain connected to the global network possible. I'm pretty sure we also don't have entire prosthetic bodies which we can throw our conscience into! It's a matter of suspension of disbelief and the posthumans ability to dodge projectiles is not too far a science-fiction stretch considering their overall threat to human evolution. But it is a pretty rare trait for really anyone to have so I understand your issues with the subject. Nonetheless, thank you so much for taking the time to watch and give your two cents on it ;D
If you have watched the anime and tries to understand with little effort the way these posthumans work, you will know how they can easily dodge bullets without proper coordination from the shooter.
@@blazelight3614 for me it does not fit in this world. It seems more like magic then anything else. First thing you would learn in self defense is that you can't dodge a bullet. Dodging a pistol shot maybe but a full automatic gun at a 10m distance.
@@darkbelg I'll help you out here on Posthumans against bullets. 1) They aren't humans 2) They calculate quicker than normal humans 3) Can predict in advance where you intend to shoot so they can dodge it before you pull the trigger. This also explained clearly in Season 2 where Purin uses her bots to coordinate an attack together to tighten up the shots almost hitting the posthuman eventually gracing it during a chase later. 4) Lastly they aren't invincible, their weakness is surprise shots. (And I think gas also I believe, but that's not related to bullets so)
@@blazelight3614 Let me ask you some questions since it seems you have a better grasp at the story than I do. From what I remember, the 'posthumans' were a menace in season 1 as they were originally non-augmented humans who only had computer attached brains(in japanese it's electrical brain, don't know the term in English) infected with a virus one day. Yet their computer brains somehow have higher processing power exceeding not only normal person but even a tachikoma and even an entire country. I believe it stated in season 1, one posthuman seemed to have the output of using 3 million computer brains. I thought they would later explain how this could have happened and I presumed it must be zombie pc virus or some government project of having 3 mil pcs buried underground. BUT NOPE! It is just an advanced ai! BS! If it's so powerful and can hack anyone and anything at the same time. Why not hack the entire American Empire... so many plot holes... I liked in previous SAC where there was a logical explanation to everything. Like how Kuze Hideo made money to buy nukes by hacking bank numbers below decimal points and gathering them into one account. Just furious how nothing is explained in 2045. 1. why is posthuman so powerful 2. wtf is ezaki purin and why is she portrayed like a posthuman before death when it turned out she was not 3. how tf was she able to know pm was going to be assassinated and why is she such a genius even more than wizard level hackers 4. 1A84 said it cannot be duplicated and yet there are posthumans also it said ezaki was already installed with something when it tried to merge with her 5. why does john smith know about 'N' and if he knew the ai plans even before why does he handle it so poorly. Sorry about the rant. I liked GITS for its political investigative drama in a scifi setting. This one just feels like a scifi fantasy with no logical storyline.
I specifically sought you out to listen to your opinion because of your "Flawed Realist" character breakdown of Motoko. I am... pretty much broken and can't make up my mind about SAC_2045 S2. I wanted to love it, I wanted to hate it and now I can't do either of those. (Anyone reading past this point please note that I will be really heavy on spoilers.)
There are a couple of details that annoyed the hell out of me. (Everyone had a plotarmor, until suddenly Purin did not, Motoko and Bato made the dumbest mistakes in the chase scene, like literally opening up a bullet proof door of the van in the middle of a gunfight while a VIP lied on the floor just behind them unable to even dodge, etc. The most annoying detail was Esaki not having a ghost - the ghost is not the same as a soul, and while the real Esaki died, we do know of at least one machine having a ghost in the franchise.) These are just these: details. They bugged me, I went on, watched the rest of the show. Boy was I surprised. After Toguse rejoins the show, the pacing just got perfect, the plot rises the stake with every passing minute, the cinematography was on a whole different level after the first season, Esaki 2.0 actually introduced real posthumanist dilemmas, the military and political aspects were really good and served the worldbuilding well, etc.
And then came the ending. I don't think I raged this much on an ending. Like... ever. To avoid any confusion, I am familiar with Orwell's work, understand how the double think would relate to the philosophical problem the show centered around, and understand how N is a solution for the problem the AI was set out to solve. I do understand that Motoko was responsible for more than herself, and reseting the world to it's previous state would have risked a nuclear war between Japan and the AE.
I still don't believe any iteration of Motoko's would have chosen double think over reality. Motoko is the fighter who tore herself apart before she admitted she can't open that panel on the tank's back. I don't think any of the previous Motokos would have admitted defeat - or even would have cared about defeat in face of a choice. And it's even heavily implied that Motoko wasn't alone in this decision - Batou actually knew everything, and thus probably was in the same situation and made the same choice.
N is in a constant state of artificial tranqulity. It's essentially slavery justified by giving nice dreams to the slaves. It's not just admitting total defeat either. Esaki and the posthumans called this a critical point in the human evolution. But there was no evolution there. It was a couple of parasites influencing the whole of the human race. Like those funghi or wasp larvas that take over the host insects' brains.
To be fair, the ending scene and the homage to the original movie was pretty well done. I felt really emotional even as I was raging away for the decision that is for me unjistifiable. And I want to hate it so bad, I want to tell that this is a bad ending...
But it actually makes me think about what I want for myself. I consider myself a transhumanist, I was following the movement for two decades now. There's a real life part of the transhumanist movement called the posthumanist abolitionism, which aims to defeat suffering in a literal sense. The movement wants to technologically erase the experience of suffering. I never agreed with this vision, as negative feelings are crucial parts of the human experience, and they are here within us for a reason. Motoko made the abolitionist choice. She denied the capability of human suffering and thus cripled everyone's chance to make their own decisions about a better world. So while I can not justify Motoko's decision in any way, I do acknowledge that the ending is really smart. It's not a '"bad" ending, it's an... infuriating one.
But all in all... this is the only iteration of Ghost in the Shell that I probably will not watch again.
I'm interested to know why you think the Major didn't pull the plug? I know the ending was intentionally ambiguous, but I personally think she did pull it.
@@Coolguy98765 is it ambiguous though? When she first wakes up in double think and thinks she's in a mindmaze, Batou is shown to be letargic and preoccupied. IMHO this shows us that Batou at this point already knows about the double think, actually figuring it out sooner than the Major. (Probably because he succumbed to the virus earlier and had some time to experiment with his new reality.)
When we cut back to the HQ after plug scene, the crew seemingly forgot about Purin. She doesn't just introduce herself to give some ceremony for her return, she actually hands over her resume, telling us that the crew doesn't know about her - while the President shaking hand with Aramaki tells us that the crisis is averted. Logically both can not be true. If the crew defeated the Posthumans, they've all met Purin before and thus should remember.
Only Motoko and Batou seem unhappy. Batou tells the Major that they both carry the burden - and this tells me that only the two of them actually knows what happened, so the rest of Section 9 isn't debriefed about double think at all. Which means, the operation didn't end. They are all in the artificial nice dream, their "own video game", and only Motoko and Batou are aware of it. Motoko bails because she can not bear to watch the crew traped in a dream. A dream where Section 9 defeated the Posthumans, the American Empire doesn't start a nuclear war, where Purin didn't die because she never was there to begin with, etc. The too perfect outcome.
If she did pull the plug, we'd have to come up with an alternative explanation for most of these events. Why did they not remember Purin? Perhaps the Posthumans deleted all memories about her. It's completely possible within the Ghost in the Shell universe - but there were no signs of this. Why is Batou preoccupied? Perhaps it really is just burnout. But these are presumptions. Occam's razor would tell us that the narrative that requires less asumptions is probably the one that's true.
I tend to think to be N was initially a choice and thus the major did not pull the plugs. It was not her place to invalidate other's choice. Are there 2 separate realities? Was the Major N or in Nspace to show her the experience/ reality . Some of my most favorite brain candy.
@@sweetpotataopiepie9253 but as far as we know it wasn't a choice for the majority of the people. N became an infection - just how everyone on the team has been infected at some point.
Motoko in earlier iterations was a radical individualist. She believed in people taking responsibility for their own actions, ideas and even feelings. Leaving literally the whole of humanity subjected to an infection is just... not like her. There are hints for her personality and beliefs through every iteration of the franchise, but might favorite might be her speach in Arise: The New Movie. The trailer sums it up perfectly. "Are you willing the sell your ghost for a sake of some uniform standard? Sacrificing those less fortunate than you are? You've been all given cyberbrains and ghosts to guide your actions. If you want something from others you have to find something to give in return. Build your future. Follow your ghost."
Not pulling the plug is, for me, essentially what she warns us against in this monologue. The uniform standard.
Also, in the original movie, Togusa asked Motoko why she hired an almost completely human member to a squad that was exclusively cyborg before. Her answer was something along the lines of "uniform systems are vulnerable, they can be wiped out by a single virus attack". So individuality for her isn't just a value, it's a survival strategy, and a diversity of solutions is necessary for her to be valid. She chose inaction to give up the fight and thus birthing a uniform system. A system that also has a single point of failure (the virus that is in everyone's cyberbrain).
And as a final argument I'd quote myself from my original post. N is kept in an artificial tranqulity, obliterating the capacity for negative emotions, thus cripling humanity's ability to undo the damage. Without negative emotions, everyone playing in their perfect little dreamworlds, people are forevermore denied the ability for conscious choice. So if Motoko would wanted to respect personal choice, she shouldn't have had taken that choice away from everyone for all eternity.
This might be an extreme interpretation, as both her and Batou are self-aware within double think, so other people might come to their senses sooner or later, and might even change how the world works. But I personally doubt it.
Now that I think about it, isn't that the plot of Matrix...? People waking up from an artificial dream? (Only the machines in the Matrix had the sense to keep human suffering as an integral part of the system. They even explained how people didn't fair too well in the first Matrix, which was an artificial dreamworld, similar to double think.)
@@GergelyGyurics Is Batou in Motoko's double think even real? Purin tells Motoko that everybody gets their own vision, which would mean that Batou and Motoko don't neccessarily share the same double think vision. Everybody might be totally on their own in their own vision, doing their jobs in a way that they overlap with others' visions, but that is about it. Was Motoko ever out of double think? Or was she still caught in it, and Purin/the AI told her what she needed to hear to stay in double think?
It's total slavery, and the slaves are happy, because they don't have the option to be sad anymore. I didn't actually get why the Posthumans called it an evolution, it's basically stagnation. A human caught in that kind of reality will never achieve anything anymore, simply because the desire to achieve something always comes from the need to better yourself. If humans don't have that need anymore, there will be no more evolution, which means life ultimately becomes meaningless. Also it wasn't the peoples' choice, otherwise they wouldn't have needed a Room 101.
There is a lot I didn't like at all about these two seasons of Ghost in the Shell, starting with the crude, partially very lazy animation style (I always prefer mostly hand-drawn over CGI generated, especially when it's done so poorly like in this show), the unresolved storylines (who was the girl in the schoolgirl uniform who saved Toguse when the members of N wanted to send him to Room 101, for example?), the (actually kind of wrong) interpretation of 1984... oh, and Purin was annoying as hell. And there's actually very little I did like. I only watched the 2nd season out of boredom and could have done without it. The ending is bad, not on a How I met your Mother bad level, but kind of lazy and unneccessary. And it's a definite ending to the franchise.
I liked it and I think it was worth it. This season in particular really reminded me of SAC 2nd GIG with the involvement of the US as antagonists and the focus on not just philosophical content but also politics.
TL;DR
I've finished both season a couple months ago!
Back in 2020 I didn't watch the First Season (only some critics from it), because I already knew that I'm only gonna get the full story with the Second Season, so I've waited two years for the whole package.
Was It Worth The Wait?
Well... yes but actually no.
While the story was interesting with the Post-Humans and the Economy Problems/Sustainable War, to me it didn't really felt original (not like the OG SAC Series).
True, I've never read the book "1984" (nor "The Catcher In The Rye" or any book from Yukio Mishima - the guy Patrick Sylvestre is based on - for that matter...), but even if I would do that (while maybe rewatching 2045 too), I don't think that it would change too much about how I feel about this new series.
Because to me, GitS 2045 felt like a pointless/inferior version of 2nd GIG on steroids.
And there's a lot of things that I'm confused and mad about.
I'm going to write down 10 of my problems with this new series:
1. Where is Azuma and Proto? What happened to them? Why did no one from S9 mention them?
I really wanted to see more of Proto. He felt unique and I wanted to know more about him. And I know that Asuma was an original character from the manga and I can probably learn a lot about him if I just (finally) read the manga anyway, but still.
I know that OG SAC was two decades ago (old fans grow up or die, new fans coming, etc.), but throwing out already established characters in the trash like "who cares" is disrespectful to the OG Series and to the old fans in my opinion.
2. Purin and Standard are terrible! Did they really thought that replacing Proto and Asuma with them is a good idea? Standard is a pointless character and it's totally clear that the only reason he's included is political correctness! Comic relief? He was pathetic!
I admit Purin had some interesting moments (I especially liked her backstory, because with it, we got a reference to the OG First Season), but the way she acted, it was so unprofessional and childish and she just doesn't belong to a team like S9! And what's with that Ending? Is it implied that she wil become the "new Major"!? GTFOH!
3. It was established in Solid State that Aramaki can no longer walk normally and he needs a cane. In 2045 he's supposed to be like 75-80 years old and all of a sudden he doesn't need a cane anymore. Now I know that it's just a minor thing, but still they could've explain this small detail. Someone could've ask him about it and he could just reply "I changed my legs to prosthetic" (even though as far as I know Aramaki wasn't into cyberization, other than the essential cyberbrain).
Also I feel that Aramaki should've been different in this series. Instead of still "being in the game", he should've been an old man in his deathbed (kinda like his friend he visited in Solid State), giving his last thoughts and orders to S9 and having a funeral for him in the end.
But I know the devs don't have the balls to kill off any member of S9 ;)
4. Why was S9 disbanded? Didn't they receive a lot of budget after 2nd GIG? Did Kayabuki mess something up? And why was Batou the first one to leave for America? I thought he always wants to be by Motoko's side. I think a prequel movie, taking place in 2039 (when S9 was disbanded) would be a good idea to explain a lot of things.
5. It's been two decade and I still know nothing about Borma! What's his backstory? How did he join S9 in the SAC Universe? Ishikawa (and Pazu for that matter) falls into this category too, but at least I know about him that he served in the war with the Major and it's kinda implied that he was somewhat of a mentor figure to Motoko.
To be continued...
6. The female characters are terribly designed in this one! And why does Motoko (and Purin for that matter) looks like a 15 year old? She's supposed to be around 42 now (she was born in 2003)! I understand if she doesn't want to look like a middle aged woman, but those late 20's - early 30's bodies she used in the OG Series were much better and more fitting for her profession and personality!
7. John Smith is a pointless character! At first he appeared interesting to me, I thought (even though he was "ripped" from Matrix) he might be a good spiritual successor to Gouda. But when it was "his time to shine", S9 just grabs him and puts him in a "freezer"! So dissapointed!
8. Takashi Shimamura is a bad GitS villain! Seriously! Are you trying to tell me that a 14 year old boy found out how to create world peace? At least they should've made him older to make it more believable! Besides, his looks aren't really original! His head/face, body shape and overall style looks like Aoi's, while his 2nd Season attire and plans are very similar to Hideo Kuze's!
Anyway I feel like that he should've been one of the kids, who got kidnapped during Solid State, giving him a more interesting backstory... I could go on about him, but I leave it here for now.
9. Why there's almost no references to the OG Series? Why couldn't they give us some answers? Again, I know that it's been almost 2 decades and I know that GitS is not about "explain everything to the audience", but I would've liked some closures and cameos.
I mean things like maybe a cameo from Aoi, as he gets visited by Motoko (and maybe other members of S9) in the national library, maybe even getting help from him to stop the Post-Humans. I know that it was kinda hinted that he's suffering from Cyberbrain Sclerosis, but if he's dead by 2045, the devs could've give us a hint about it!
Or maybe even a return of the Puppeteer. Giving us a chance to learn some more about him...
Not to mention that after all the hard work Kuze done, we still don't know what happened to Dejima and it's occupants.
Did Kuze (if it's possible that he actually didn't die and uploaded himself to the Net) manage to bring that 3 milllion people into cyberspace and the artificial island (some time later) became a ghost town? Did Dejima become an independent state and started to prosper the way the people who lived there (including that 3 million who may not went into cyberspace) wanted?
New Tokyo is nice and all and I understand why it gets so many attention in 2045, but at the same time, it's kinda sucks that Dejima doesn't gets any mention. It's like the artificial Budapest (my hometown) sized island never existed!
10. And finally, to me, the biggest dissapointment is that the developers didn't bring back Kuze! To me it's such a missed opportunity! I mean him being the "Father of the Post-Humans" would've made sense! The Ending of the 1st Season even hinted that he might return! The Blue Rose in the cube... Blue Rose is a symbol of a love that can't be fulfilled!
But if not bring him back (I guess Kamiyama wants to keep his fate a mystery forever...), then at least make some goddamn references to him! I was dissapointed that Motoko didn't fold a single paper crane during 2045! I actually would've loved to see a scene where Motoko goes to Dejima and visits a memorial/statue of Kuze (built by the refugees) and leaves a paper crane there!
Hell, if they would've made a scene where Motoko bash in Suzuki Sato's head (the CIA Agent, who overloaded Kuze's cyberbrain with Micromachines), I would rate this new series 10/10 XD
One can only dream...
To wrap this up, I'm gonna say that I won't consider this new series canon to the OG SAC Series!
I'm going to treat it like Arise, like it's a separate universe.
I actually started to write a GitS SAC Fanfiction (though I don't know when it will be done...). It's gonna be my own 3rd GIG.
Anyway, I hope the next GitS will be more mature and less political correct.
I also hope that it's gonna be 2D again, but if they keep the 3D CGI style, then I hope that they're gonna improve a lot on it!
Until next time, Production I.G!
Although I didn’t love the ending I still thought the season was incredibly good and visually phenomenal especially the use of the tachicomas but I think they did do a little thing in terms of the title of each episode… I think they kind of combined the standalone and the complex together… with the first part of the title being the standalone aspect of the episode and the second title being the complex. I think the episodes with Togusa really bared that out…
Again I can’t say how impressed I still am with the tachicomas… absolutely cool and impressive during Chase scenes but their personalities especially in that back story arc they’re just the best! lol
My Only complain is they really trimmed down major screen time in 2045 S2 and yeah prim is annoying
Yes, the animation holds it back a little, but if you follow the story its really a Ghost in the Shell story through and through. You can not get that deep cyberpunk expensive anywhere else.
Glad to hear you liked it. I'll be honest and say that I havnt really thought about Gits or anime in general for a bit because I've been focusing more on other animation like the Owl House, Kipo and Infinity Train. But I've been keeping up with and loving your videos still, and I trust your word on anything Gits more than anyone else. I remember thinking 2045 was alright but on the lower tier of Gits related stuff. Its good to hear season 2 improves a bit, I'll definitely have to check this at some point. Kinda sad to hear the Major isn't as important, but I'm happy they didn't mess up her character and she's still the same awesome leader of Section 9.
I definitely enjoyed this season really awesome 🤩 👍🏿 not gonna lie I’m not sure 🤔 how I feel about the ending maybe I just need to watch again but I am glad 😃 it didn’t end on a cliffhanger like the first season . Great video
Agreed, the finale of the first season has been cleared up in a bit of a confusing way. This confusion then translates to the ending of the second season. As I reply to you I am able to understand more and more about how this double think theory actually works whilst at the same time staying lost and confused as to the full extent of how it actually works and when exactly it started working. It's provocative in the sense that it's very all over the place whilst also having this indirect and logical correlation within the entire shows narrative. Thus its both a mess and a masterful execution of an existential topic. Thank you for watching!
Personally I think she left the plugs in the Kid’s head and people are still stuck in their own personal fantasy. To me that sounds like imprisonment having everything go your way with out problems. Life is not like that problems help us better understand the world around us. I would pulled the plugs and shot thing that was pretending to be a kid/human. Sorry kid life isn’t supposed to be dreams. There are reasons for it wrongs and goods.
I’m not sure about that but I can definitely see what you mean. It’s definitely a possibility and maybe even 🤔 a hint to where the story could go next. I’m not 💯 percent on that given how I took the ending of season 2. But at least we got a more fitting ending this time around unlike season 1 which I believe just sorta ended. But thanks for bringing that up it is still interesting to think about.
@@melvinsantos9756
I don't think there will be a season 3 especially considering the ending implications of season 2.
Great reviews (I took your advice and watched your Season 1 video first)! I binged the entire series the last 3 days. I really DID NOT expect to like it. I skipped season 1 the first time around because well, it looked awful and the word on the street was it was bad, but it was very satisfying, especially season 2.
Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex is a very special anime for me. It was the first anime I watched after the more accessible stuff on Adult Swim and Toonami back in 2003 (Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Yu Yu Hakusho, Ruroni Kenshin), and the first time an anime truly made me go "Woah". I probably haven't watched it in 15 years, but I need to revisit it after watching SAC_2045.
I loved S1E7 with Batou and Room 101 with Togusa, and even where they took Purin. I agree with you about the Major, she felt like a background character, which I didn't mind because they did a great job with Batou and Togusa. Just still a bit mind-blown as to why they chose the 3D CGI. Binging it all, I honestly didn't notice the upgrades in season 2. I'll have to go back and look closer.
Anyways, subbed! I'm pumped to go through your channel. I have a SAC_2045 video up on my channel and am working on a spoiler/ending discussion next if you're interested. Keep up the great work!
Thank you very much for taking the time to view both videos! It's fascinating to see one actually want to go back and see things in a different light. I'll also definitely check your uploads out as it's always interesting to see other people's perspectives on certain entertainment.
@@atoko9004 I'm the same way. I get really excited to binge videos on a topic after I post a video because I stay completely away during the whole process so I don't get influenced with ideas.
the only thing that I don’t like，is that I think in the end Major‘s choice didn't matched her character build since very first SAC in mine opinion
For me Motoko pulled the plug it would be the biggest uncharacteristic for her because she wouldn't want in a world that's a false reality
If she did, how does the re-introduction of Purin to Section 9 work? Kusanagi only employed double-think for that specific section of people's memories?
It certainly was better than Season 1, even when it comes to music
The music is obnoxious af and cues at THE MOST corny plot beats. Tonal shifts in the narrative waffles between taking itself too seriously and being jarringly goofy at inappropriate moments. Lots of incessant hand holding and constant repeating. Nonsense characters blink into the history of members in Section 9. Can't say I'm enjoying it but will grit to see the finale for what it's worth.
Thanks for covering this ..good review
It was really good kinda weird ending but that's sorta normal.
Gonna be honest and say that I really enjoyed both seasons of the show. Tbf, I didn't know anything about Gits before besides having seen the movie years which may have lead to me enjoying this more than the average fan of the universe. Also I really didn't mind the 3DCG and I'd even go as far as saying this is, at least for me, the benchmark for 3d anime (the exception being the barren landscapes which really can't be excused). I don't really know if I found the ending to be satisfactory but the show as a whole was definitely entertaining to watch
There are no stand alone episodes but there are stand alone esque episodes. The tochikomas looking for purins origin, Togusa showing up in tokyo.
Purins plot was ok with the callback. But the fact that she was the catalyzer she was the one bringing it all together was bad writing. You have a squad with people who have different skills and they make a new one.
The clown had no reason being there and brings in the question of how armies work in this universe.
Animation or rather the quality was better.
Post humans dodging bullets is the dumbest thing. You can't dodge a bullet. And even if you can there are always guns who can fire more bullets faster.
The opening and ending are great. But the story was bad. There was a real lack of military knowledge on the writers part.
I don't want more of this.
Thank you for leaving your feedback and opinion on the show! I did forget to mention that the tachikoma episode did somewhat act like a standalone episode however ultimately it was a drawn out episode that was there to finally give backstory to Purin and to invoke a sense of loss for the team of Section 9 until her revival. Hence feeling less like a standalone episode that casually explores more of its world and instead acting as a checklist with some charm sprinkled on top. I'd also say the Togusa episode is not a standalone episode at all, it's meant to reveal to us what has been happening to him since his disappearance and where he went, this being a a place that then plays an important role to the rest of the story. His room 101 plot also clears up the way double-think works. Thus if we take all of these topics of Togusa's story into consideration, it most definitely lacks much resemble to the often personal and isolated nature of standalone episodes.
You bringing up clown was also a very valid argument I myself brought up but I wouldn't say it puts into question how the military functions. As Clown and his teams participation during the operation was led by the American Empire and were purposefully sent out to check whether the posthumans having to rest was in fact true. I believe they act more like a suicide squad that was there just to confirm said assumption, even being called "sacrificial lambs" by Saito.
Lastly, it's quite difficult for me to say dodging bullets isn't possible, as nor is having ones brain connected to the global network possible. I'm pretty sure we also don't have entire prosthetic bodies which we can throw our conscience into! It's a matter of suspension of disbelief and the posthumans ability to dodge projectiles is not too far a science-fiction stretch considering their overall threat to human evolution. But it is a pretty rare trait for really anyone to have so I understand your issues with the subject. Nonetheless, thank you so much for taking the time to watch and give your two cents on it ;D
If you have watched the anime and tries to understand with little effort the way these posthumans work, you will know how they can easily dodge bullets without proper coordination from the shooter.
@@blazelight3614 for me it does not fit in this world. It seems more like magic then anything else. First thing you would learn in self defense is that you can't dodge a bullet. Dodging a pistol shot maybe but a full automatic gun at a 10m distance.
@@darkbelg I'll help you out here on Posthumans against bullets.
1) They aren't humans
2) They calculate quicker than normal humans
3) Can predict in advance where you intend to shoot so they can dodge it before you pull the trigger. This also explained clearly in Season 2 where Purin uses her bots to coordinate an attack together to tighten up the shots almost hitting the posthuman eventually gracing it during a chase later.
4) Lastly they aren't invincible, their weakness is surprise shots. (And I think gas also I believe, but that's not related to bullets so)
@@blazelight3614 Let me ask you some questions since it seems you have a better grasp at the story than I do.
From what I remember, the 'posthumans' were a menace in season 1 as they were originally non-augmented humans who only had computer attached brains(in japanese it's electrical brain, don't know the term in English) infected with a virus one day. Yet their computer brains somehow have higher processing power exceeding not only normal person but even a tachikoma and even an entire country. I believe it stated in season 1, one posthuman seemed to have the output of using 3 million computer brains. I thought they would later explain how this could have happened and I presumed it must be zombie pc virus or some government project of having 3 mil pcs buried underground.
BUT NOPE! It is just an advanced ai! BS! If it's so powerful and can hack anyone and anything at the same time. Why not hack the entire American Empire... so many plot holes... I liked in previous SAC where there was a logical explanation to everything. Like how Kuze Hideo made money to buy nukes by hacking bank numbers below decimal points and gathering them into one account. Just furious how nothing is explained in 2045.
1. why is posthuman so powerful
2. wtf is ezaki purin and why is she portrayed like a posthuman before death when it turned out she was not
3. how tf was she able to know pm was going to be assassinated and why is she such a genius even more than wizard level hackers
4. 1A84 said it cannot be duplicated and yet there are posthumans also it said ezaki was already installed with something when it tried to merge with her
5. why does john smith know about 'N' and if he knew the ai plans even before why does he handle it so poorly.
Sorry about the rant. I liked GITS for its political investigative drama in a scifi setting. This one just feels like a scifi fantasy with no logical storyline.
Yes it was👍🏾
I have not completed it yet, but what i have seen is fantastic. Episode 2 was 20 minutes of solid non-stop action. Totally exhausting but worth it.
i don't understood... what happened at the end... is everyone in a simulation or they sleep in machine and wake up, where they always in simulation
This latest series was trash
S2 is out?
Lol yeah