The Red Squad miscalculated three things: 1.) The number of Galaxy class ships required to take out the Jem'hadar Battleship 2.) Their odds of surviving a direct attack on such ship with a single Defiant class ship 3.) The size of their "Captain's" ego
At the same time Jake should have pointed out to Nog that the Battleship had too obvious of a flaw. That with all of Nog's direct experience with the Dominion, he knew they don't make those kind of mistakes.
Yeah exactly. These weren't in use in the dominion war. They had all been upgraded to the dw variant. Also I could be wrong but didn't one explode from the defiant in sacrifice of angels. When the defiant was the only ship to break through the line?!. Did it drop mines?
I'm just gonna say, if you had 3 generations galaxy class ships under human control, you could coordinate to fire 2 walls of 30 photons in quick succession. No way that doesn't hurt like hell. Also it's very clear that targeting the warp core is a complete waste of time on that ship, and conversely hitting weapons makes more sense than you give credit for. Sure, you may not be able to take out every weapon, but it doesn't take much firepower to knock out a polaron beam or torpedo launcher(and if they're clustered close together like some ships, you might take out multiples at once) and every time you do it buys you time.
If I remember correctly, a Dominion battleship was described as "twice the size, three times the firepower of a galaxy-class". And I'd imagine the battleships defense's were along those same lines. And so if 3 times a galaxy-class's firepower was concentrated on the defenses of one galaxy-class I'd imagine that would be pretty overwhelming for that galaxy-class. "Three times the firepower" is a hell of a lot of alpha strike punch to defend against. To put it in naval terms most real world battleships defenses were intended to protect them against up to about the size of their own guns (at certain combat ranges). And this battle is like a Yamato going up against 3 of the old WWI era American dreadnoughts like Wyoming. Yes, there are three of them, but they are so severely outgunned and their own guns lack the punch to hit anything vital the only chance they might have would be to go after the much softer superstructure, gun directors, etc. And I don't think a dominion ship covered completely in shields has any such vulnerabilities. So I don't think three galaxies would be enough. I'm not even sure three sovereigns, like the Enterprise E, would be enough. You'd need a small armada engaging in swarm tactics to take this thing down.
I'd go for the sensors so it can't target you. I also would separate the saucers and keep them in reserve, or use them to harass it's flanks or try to hit it's impulse engines from the rear, while having the Star Drives "boom and zoom" on the sensor array, either forcing it to retreat or if you can blind the battleship, then I'd hammer it's warp core until it was done. Of course the bridge commander A.I. can't execute tactics like that, so I guess then you'd just have to offer up the two galaxies, and your own saucer up as sacrificial lambs and hope you can destroy the battleships sensors before it notices you.
Jake might have been referring to the war variant Galaxy Class. It would be interesting to see how those would stack up. Not that I necessarily believe the battleship could defeat three War variant Galaxies but that it would have an offensiveness and toughness more or less--well--three times greater. I have to admit, I'm surprised that the battleship won this easily.
@larqven0192 Battle-cruiser, heavy vessel, and mothership networks need to enhance quantum phaser and beam launcher system in risk zones, or to switch magnetic shield from mothership and nearest spaceport supports.
@@adamhoover2264 ah the famous federation hotfix that suddenly bridged the gap of thousands of years of tec advancement the dominion had on the federation...
Ah, the battle I've been waiting for. Nice. I'm reminded of how this battleship was shot by one lone Vorcha in the final battle of the Dominion War. The plucky little Vorcha was like, "Come at me, bro!" and probably yelled at the Dominion for retreating. "GET BACK HERE!"
I always found that funny. That Vorcha is blasting away at that Dreadnaught's nacelle while all hell is breaking loose around them as the Cardassians switch sides.
Not being able to coordinate your attacks with the other two ships probably cost you there. And I assume they would have been referring to at least Generations-era upgraded Galaxies.
I'm not a gamer, but I love these. Back in the 90s I wrote a Dominion War story about about a Starfleet Task Force, consisting of two Sovereigns (The E-E and the Class Ship) 3 Intrepids and the USS Galaxy fit out with the Phaser Lance hunting Dominion Battleships!
You needed Picard on the bridge and Geordie in engineering. They would've rerouted the phased plasma inducers into the main power grid for extra power.
Saying the “Valiant “ scanned the battleship and determined the strength doesn’t make it accurate. Remember these are the idiots that thought they could take out that ship with their broken down little ship. There’s a reason why you shouldn’t take anything a child says at face value.
I can't say for sure, but given how much they overestimated the battleship's weakness, I'm inclined to believe they underestimated its's power to much the same degree. Meaning this thing could have over 3 times the firepower of a galaxy-class.
@@tinman3586 I’m not arguing that they didn’t have “self-assured adolescent attitudes”. In fact that’s exactly what I meant about them. They knew nothing of real warfare yet thought they could do the job. Their arrogance is why they failed at all levels.
That would be cool to see, but the Mirandas, would need to be war refits wouldn't they? Personally I think it would only take two Galaxy Dreadnoughts to beat it.
@@cmj0929 Garbage episode should be forgotten(much like ds9 itself)as it didn't portray space combat correctly and on top of that they only did that because they needed to make that trash defiant look good. The Wrath of Khan was space battle done right. After all can't have a better ship outshine Sisko now can they? Mirandas are tougher than they portrayed them in the show anyways.
@@valor1omega warfare & ship combat in ST as a whole is wildly inconsistent, not just in DS9. It sure gets some praise from me for showing how expansionist the federation really is under all that sugar coating + having a captain that taps into the inmoral side of decisions to have a better outcome for the federation.(wich probably most admirals & captains do, sojboy Picard is not representative at all.) But regarding space combat, yeah it dropped that one in a big way, large scale battles without anybody using shields, the Defiant having Enterprise D levels of plot armor with deathstar levels of armaments and of course DS9 itself being so overpowered, that the cardassians did not need to build anything else just these things and put some warp drives on them, apparently with two of these they could have conquered the klongons... Why even bother with the Hutet or anything else really, just put a few Teraknors in key systems with a few Galors as support and send a few into conquering the alpha quadrant ...
The thing that makes the large Dominion ships so effective is that you can't damage their subsystems. So even after they've lost shields and most of their hull integrity they have the same damage output.
Honestly after a quick watch, Galaxies could’ve won if you moved away from the Jem’ from what I noticed in playing ST:BC the AI will always pick the closest target to go after; so when it took out the other Galaxy it switched to you.
😳Jeepers Admiral.. the size of the Battleship and all the windows , looks like a city almost.. gosh.. Eeeh., that was a wicked battle gosh.. and yes, almost.. and other way around, just the shield grid on the bottom corner... crumbs on a cracker.. shows all it has wow.. Gosh.. good thing Starfleet had help cause these ships are wicked tough and scary to look at eeh.. Still great battle Admiral.. !😊🖖
The Jemhadar battleship was insane. I think even Shinzon would have nightmares about this one 😂. You can see why the dominion was so tough to beat. Thanks Steve, hope your doing better now 🖖
@@RetroBadgerGaming Yes the Jemhadar battleship was insane for sure.. and yes I think so too, but Riker said the Remans did amazing against the Dominion, not sure what ships used.. Thanks for asking, just still a bit down cause of a channel and trying to ignore it but still puts you down, if can explain it.. Thanks for asking , means a lot.. !!!😊🖖
Being that it was a DS9 episode set during the Dominion war, I'd like to see how the DW Galaxy class refit would do. Because I don't know to which type of Galaxy class he was referring.
What about the remen scimitar verses the jem'hadar battleship. That sounds kind of cool to me. Your videos are a joy to watch. Thank you for such good content. Kind regards from Daniel Harman.
In the series its said that the Dominion has thousands of years of technological advancement on the federation, they should be on the level of the Borg or Voth, so pretty much untouchable in combat for the feds. I get that DS9 tried to do a nerd version of an anti-war movie, but the feds should have gotten that peace treaty in a more cerebral way, other than fighting the dominion force on force (and with deus ex machinas like the prophets). I would have done it so: show the dark side of Starfleet as it is shown in the show with Section 31 etc, but instead of stopping Sloan, let him use the virus that would kill most founders, have the remaining ones cured and sealed away (like in Star Trek online) and basically blackmail the Vorta & JemHadar into retreating so they can preserve the last few founders, make Sisko know about this and do nothing because they are losing bad. This would greatly fit in as a finale with the existing subtle hints in the show that the federation is not the good guy, first their expansionism and disregard of territorial integrity is what caused all of it in the first place, later on its hinted with S31 that the federation is just as ruthless as any other empire, but has that sugarcoated exterior, wich allows it to just absorb more "cooperative" cultures & species trough cultural osmosis. But if somebody doesnt play ball, they show their teeth and conviniently have a dedicated department to do the dirty part of plausible deniability, that way idealists like Picard can carry the word around and Section 31 can swoop in after them to do the real "negotiations".
I'd wager the Valiant estimation was either: 1) Using Dominion-War Upgraded Galaxies (which would make sense, given the mission took place during the war) or 2) The Pokemon Problem; might not be the best idea to send kids out into the wild to get your wildlife/tactical information
The problem with multiple small vs one big battles is that you're gonna lose smalls and that is going to cut into the small side offense while big is still going strong. Unless the smalls can cut into the big's offenses they're going to need significant statistical advantage to win
I suspect a TNG-era Galaxy under that kind of bombardment would have easily blown a power coupling or two in the first ten minutes, since that seemingly was what happened most times when the Enterprise D faced ships with less intense firepower. That was a potentially crippling blow. The USS Odyssey’s shields didn’t stand up well to the Jem’Hadar fighters’ polaron weapons either. Like other people have commented, blitzing the Battleship with concerted photon torpedos would have been the best bet. Three Dominion War-era upgraded Galaxy classes would have won I think, and quantum-armed Galaxies would win by a comfortable margin.
There is something to be said about a coordinated attack. If all three galaxies targeted the same shield side and collapsed it, they may have been able to take it down. Seeing how much damage they did uncoordinated.
Hmmm interesting thought. I don't know. Can 3 heavily armed cruise ships take down the Jem Hadar battleship? I don't know... could it be a sink the Bismarck situation? 😀 I like the way you bleeped yourself at the end of the first fight. I actually thought that 3 Galaxies would stand a chance... I wonder if the last one could have finished them. 🤔
If you take the statement from the episode literally, It has the power of three Galaxy Classes, then the most you could have gotten from this battle is the final Galaxy and the Jem'hadar mutually self-destructing from accumulated hull damage. So, in order to take the battleship out completely, you'd need at least four of them, to have any kind of advantage.
I'm thinking the Jem'hadar's boast in DS9 was pretty accurate. However, the 3 fighting Galaxy-class starships did not have Dominion-era shields and weapon upgrades. Either way, I would absolutely love to see the Jem'hadar battleship battle the Reman Scimitar.
How about the Alpha Quadrant End Game team-up? A *Galaxy,* a *Neghvar,* a *D'Deridex* and the *Hutet* vs. the Dominion Dreadnaught? Or, if that it is too easy, the Alpha Quadrant *Heavy Cruiser* team-up? The Akira (or Nebula), Vorcha, Obsidian Keldon and D'Deridex vs big bad?
I don't think four heavy cruisers would win, they just don't have enough firepower even though those four are all excellent ships. I think it would take six: Akira, Nebula, Vorcha, Keldon Advanced x2 and the flagship D'Deridex. The Dreadnaught would destroy heavy cruisers too quickly I think for four to survive long enough.
in the bridge commander remastered version i had the luck one time to get it with one defiant class ship. My tactic was to cloak and try to manuver the ship direct under the battleship and focus the warpcore. But u have to be this near that the jemhadar are not able to target their polarons on you. So it was pretty hard to stick direktly under their underneat hull without touching them^^ sorry for my bad english its not my native language^^
You should of used the Venture Class refit of the class that would of been a closer match to what would of happen in the war.The Shields would of been stronger and i think the weapons system were slightly more powerful. Also i would agree with what someone said the ego of the "Captain" of Red Squardon was big.
The Dominion battleship is the one vessel you need a second screen just for the weapon status display. What a beast! I still think however than the three Galaxies could have won with a more coordinated attack. With all three concentrating fire on the bottom side, that flying purple fortress would've been history. Have you tried firing at its impulse engines ? Maybe that works better than the warp core.
Not necessarily. The battleship had, presumably, at least 3 times the firepower of any one galaxy and also presumably, at least three times the shield strength. Given that it's a dedicated warship it's likely it's hull was also heavily armored, something a Galaxy-class is not. So it's likely the battleship has at least 3 times the firepower and more than 3 times the defenses which would mean it could bariage any one galaxy, quickly overwhelm and destroy it, and move on to the next one, each time reducing the enemy's offensive ability but 1/3. The galaxies are just outclassed here. I'd think you'd probably need more like 5 or so to destroy the battleship with probably the loss of 2 or 3 galaxies.
Good battle overall. Should've been the Dominion War Refit version of the Galaxy though; probably wouldn't have even been that close w/ all those quantums. I think you could've won if you targeted the impulse engines, or maybe weapon subsystems. It's already so slow that any damage to the impulse engines would make it easy to stay out of it's firing arcs. Going for the warp core is probably the worst thing you can do against the battleship since it's in the middle of the ship and it's not really possible to damage it. I think you should do the Galaxy X vs the Jem'hadar battleship next out of spite. Bring out the OP phaser lance. :D
Serious question, if captains of a couple of galaxy classes loaded their saucer sections with quantum torpedos and rammed the saucer sections into one of those Dominion battleships would it cause massive damage from the kinetic damage of the saucer sections and the explosive damage from the quantum torpedos? Edit: When I speak of the saucer sections i mean after the separation happens and it's just the saucer on programmed inception of the enemy ship.
This is why the Federation needs dedicated Dreadnought like Klingon Neg'Hvar or Reman Scimitar. Federation definitely needs one. Another problem I'm seeing is, Federation starship aren't designed for sustained combat. Federation does have Defiant class but it's more suited for Dominion bug ships than Dreadnoughts.
personally i am hopeful someone figures out a way to get some sort of online games going. clearly this new update intends at least some sort of multiplayer. it has some pretty advanced mutliplayer missions. which means that if it was possible to play online, we could do testing of this type but have humans in all the galaxies, for instance. probably it could be done over some sort of direct connect, but in most cases for gaming these days there would be a sort of site dedicated to hosting games. if i remember right, the people who originally hosted bridge commander turned off their servers dedicated to that many years ago
That was something that always puzzled me about the Valiant episode. They hit the battleship in its weak spot with the magic torpedoes, but that failed to destroy it. Looked like it did what should have been crippling damage, too. Yet, it played a "Dead, not dead" card and mopped the space floor with the Valiant. I never understood why the special attack didn't work.
That ships was a recreation created by a super powerful being. It's hard to say how accurate it was to the real thing. But, if so, I think the dominion ship would be massively outclassed given it's opponent is described as "carrying enough firepower to pulverize a planet".
If The Dominion consists primarily of the Founders, Vorta & Jem"Hadar then who were the scientists & engineers that design/built their ships? I can't remember any of these 3 species showing any particular skill in this regard. Yes some of their subjugated/allied species may have helped, but given that they built/operated ships in both the Gamma & Alpha Quadrants it doesn't ring true that they'd have had that capacity. Just curious. 🤔
The Vorta. In Season 6 Kira was trying to convince that Vedek lady that Vorta "Facilitators" didn't pose a threat. These facilitators were engineers based on the things they were going to being working on for the Bajorans. Also, I tend to think that Dominion industrial techniques rely heavily on advanced industrial replicators doing far more construction than AQ models. It is the only to explain the speed they are able to build both Dominion and Cardassian vessels, and how the resource poor Cardassian Empire can all of a sudden support the largest industrial base in the quadrant. This is inferred in the Lower Decks episode where Quark steals a Karemma replicator. It is far more advanced than Federation models.
the thing here is that you have precise phasers, so you are at an advantage when you keep your distance, where the polaron beams do not fire at you with 100% accuracy, simple as that
RetroBadger try 3 RBG Dominion war-upgraded Galaxy classes vs. the Jem Hadar Battleship! I'd like to see if even the battleship can withstand being pummeled with several volleys of 30 quantum torpedoes each!
If 5 Defiants could just barely take this ship out then I honestly couldn't see just 3 Galaxy class ships doing so WITHOUT quantum torpedoes. Now if these were RGB Galaxy class ships then I think they would've totally messed up that Battle Cruiser. Hell, even 1 RGB paired with 2 standard Galaxy class ships could possibly have made this at least a more equal competition IF the RGB wasn't targeted first and had time to weaken them with quantums. As it stands, the Galaxy class ships could take a beating from the Battle Cruiser for a little while but they lacked the firepower to successfully put it down first.
I am extremely sceptical of Red Squad saying that this ship is 3x more powerful than a Galaxy class. Those were kids, with highly inflated ego's who could run a ship yes, but it was questionable at best, and their decisions were also questionable.
While I enjoy your channel and video, Badger, the simulation's accuracy is compromised by the 25% power increase for your Galaxy and Dominion ships. A more realistic scenario would involve all ships operating at 100% power. However, even then, the AI's less aggressive behavior, as seen in the first scenario where the other Galaxy class significantly reduced torpedo fire, would still skew results. For a truly accurate simulation, human control of all ships would be ideal, assuming the game supports multiplayer.
I wonder what the outcome would have been if you had been firing full spreads of torpedoes instead of single firing them. It should have increased your loading time as the magazine is expended in a full volley and can start refilling the magazine immediately after firing and the full spread maximizes the damage as most shields were never designed to take 10 photon torpedoes at once in a single shield face. I wonder how three RBG Galaxy classes would handle this ship.
The big decider is the armor, Galaxy systems are far easier to get at and disable than the ones on the dominion ship. Just adding armor to the galaxy would make a huge difference, with the wartime upgrades to phasers and quantum it'd be a lot closer. @jarsia said it pretty well the concentrated burst fire from 3 Galaxies couldn't be ignored.
I think tactics-wise it's doable, but with the computer handling the other two ships, it's not going to go well. You could alternate ships ducking behind each other to regen shields since they wouldn't be using their weapons systems and then alternate, this would force the enemy to constantly be taking damage while the SF ships are not. Depending on the energy capacity and regen rates this would not be viable, but you could have two SF ships covering the one that needs regen while pumping out damage. Clearly in space battles, the point is to maximize your weapons on target while minimizing the incoming damage and protecting your ships.
Honestly I still think the galaxy class could take this. The problem is the limitations of Bridge Commander. The other ships weren’t coordinating their fire with you the vast majority of the time, and the only times they were it was sheer luck. If the game allowed limited command over allied ships, giving you the ability to tell them which parts of the shield grid to fire on and which subsystems etc the fight would have gone very differently.
The Red Squad miscalculated three things:
1.) The number of Galaxy class ships required to take out the Jem'hadar Battleship
2.) Their odds of surviving a direct attack on such ship with a single Defiant class ship
3.) The size of their "Captain's" ego
Agreed... that episode was anything but reliable in terms of verifiable facts.
At the same time Jake should have pointed out to Nog that the Battleship had too obvious of a flaw. That with all of Nog's direct experience with the Dominion, he knew they don't make those kind of mistakes.
I have my doubts as to the captains ego I'd say it was sleep deprivation and addiction creating poor decision making
@@thestanleys3657 Along with no one on the crew willing or able to challenge his suicidal arrogance.
46 torpedo tubes and 28 polaron beams?! Yeah, they miscalculated... by a lot!
Maybe you should have used the Dominonwar-upgraded Galaxy-Class?
Yeah exactly. These weren't in use in the dominion war. They had all been upgraded to the dw variant. Also I could be wrong but didn't one explode from the defiant in sacrifice of angels. When the defiant was the only ship to break through the line?!. Did it drop mines?
@@dont_give_a_flying_f The plot armor on that ship rivels a Borg Tactical Cube
He already did that, and he managed to take out the Dominion battleship at long range with just one of them.
@@BlastHardcheeseable thx for letting me know. Need to check.
Isn't that the ross-class?
I'm just gonna say, if you had 3 generations galaxy class ships under human control, you could coordinate to fire 2 walls of 30 photons in quick succession. No way that doesn't hurt like hell.
Also it's very clear that targeting the warp core is a complete waste of time on that ship, and conversely hitting weapons makes more sense than you give credit for. Sure, you may not be able to take out every weapon, but it doesn't take much firepower to knock out a polaron beam or torpedo launcher(and if they're clustered close together like some ships, you might take out multiples at once) and every time you do it buys you time.
If I remember correctly, a Dominion battleship was described as "twice the size, three times the firepower of a galaxy-class". And I'd imagine the battleships defense's were along those same lines. And so if 3 times a galaxy-class's firepower was concentrated on the defenses of one galaxy-class I'd imagine that would be pretty overwhelming for that galaxy-class. "Three times the firepower" is a hell of a lot of alpha strike punch to defend against.
To put it in naval terms most real world battleships defenses were intended to protect them against up to about the size of their own guns (at certain combat ranges). And this battle is like a Yamato going up against 3 of the old WWI era American dreadnoughts like Wyoming. Yes, there are three of them, but they are so severely outgunned and their own guns lack the punch to hit anything vital the only chance they might have would be to go after the much softer superstructure, gun directors, etc. And I don't think a dominion ship covered completely in shields has any such vulnerabilities.
So I don't think three galaxies would be enough. I'm not even sure three sovereigns, like the Enterprise E, would be enough. You'd need a small armada engaging in swarm tactics to take this thing down.
I'd go for the sensors so it can't target you. I also would separate the saucers and keep them in reserve, or use them to harass it's flanks or try to hit it's impulse engines from the rear, while having the Star Drives "boom and zoom" on the sensor array, either forcing it to retreat or if you can blind the battleship, then I'd hammer it's warp core until it was done. Of course the bridge commander A.I. can't execute tactics like that, so I guess then you'd just have to offer up the two galaxies, and your own saucer up as sacrificial lambs and hope you can destroy the battleships sensors before it notices you.
Jake might have been referring to the war variant Galaxy Class. It would be interesting to see how those would stack up. Not that I necessarily believe the battleship could defeat three War variant Galaxies but that it would have an offensiveness and toughness more or less--well--three times greater. I have to admit, I'm surprised that the battleship won this easily.
Think this was a war time variant. During the early part of the war dominion weapons would punch right threw federation shields.
@larqven0192 Battle-cruiser, heavy vessel, and mothership networks need to enhance quantum phaser and beam launcher system in risk zones, or to switch magnetic shield from mothership and nearest spaceport supports.
@@adamhoover2264 ah the famous federation hotfix that suddenly bridged the gap of thousands of years of tec advancement the dominion had on the federation...
Ah, the battle I've been waiting for. Nice.
I'm reminded of how this battleship was shot by one lone Vorcha in the final battle of the Dominion War. The plucky little Vorcha was like, "Come at me, bro!" and probably yelled at the Dominion for retreating. "GET BACK HERE!"
I always found that funny. That Vorcha is blasting away at that Dreadnaught's nacelle while all hell is breaking loose around them as the Cardassians switch sides.
HOW would that Giant Jem'Hadar Battleship do against The Scimitar Battleship from Star Trek Nemesis???🤔
RGB has actually run that battle both ways. You should look for it, it was a fun battle to watch.
@@jeffcullifer5629 Thanks!
Not being able to coordinate your attacks with the other two ships probably cost you there.
And I assume they would have been referring to at least Generations-era upgraded Galaxies.
I have a feeling that 3 Generations Galaxy classes would have been able to do it.
The computer controlled Galaxy class ships seemed very stingy with their photon torpedoes
I'm not a gamer, but I love these. Back in the 90s I wrote a Dominion War story about about a Starfleet Task Force, consisting of two Sovereigns (The E-E and the Class Ship) 3 Intrepids and the USS Galaxy fit out with the Phaser Lance hunting Dominion Battleships!
The battleship looks like something Thanos would use
Do 3 upgraded galaxy vs the Giant Jem'hadar Battleship.
You needed Picard on the bridge and Geordie in engineering. They would've rerouted the phased plasma inducers into the main power grid for extra power.
Saying the “Valiant “ scanned the battleship and determined the strength doesn’t make it accurate. Remember these are the idiots that thought they could take out that ship with their broken down little ship. There’s a reason why you shouldn’t take anything a child says at face value.
Especially a child on drugs like Watters was!
As a man who was once a USAF ROTC cadet, I found those arrogant, self-assured adolescent attitudes fairly realistic.
I can't say for sure, but given how much they overestimated the battleship's weakness, I'm inclined to believe they underestimated its's power to much the same degree. Meaning this thing could have over 3 times the firepower of a galaxy-class.
@@tinman3586 I’m not arguing that they didn’t have “self-assured adolescent attitudes”. In fact that’s exactly what I meant about them. They knew nothing of real warfare yet thought they could do the job. Their arrogance is why they failed at all levels.
@@177SCmaro probably right. They didn’t know their heads from their a$$h0les. And that got them killed.
Now let's see what three Galaxy X Dreadnoughts would do. And also let's see how many Mirandas does it take to take down a Jem'Hadar Dreadnought.
That would be cool to see, but the Mirandas, would need to be war refits wouldn't they?
Personally I think it would only take two Galaxy Dreadnoughts to beat it.
The Miranda’s would be getting One-shotted left and right just like in sacrifice of angels
@@cmj0929
Garbage episode should be forgotten(much like ds9 itself)as it didn't portray space combat correctly and on top of that they only did that because they needed to make that trash defiant look good.
The Wrath of Khan was space battle done right.
After all can't have a better ship outshine Sisko now can they?
Mirandas are tougher than they portrayed them in the show anyways.
@@valor1omegaalso neither side had shields except for the defiant and small ships.
@@valor1omega warfare & ship combat in ST as a whole is wildly inconsistent, not just in DS9. It sure gets some praise from me for showing how expansionist the federation really is under all that sugar coating + having a captain that taps into the inmoral side of decisions to have a better outcome for the federation.(wich probably most admirals & captains do, sojboy Picard is not representative at all.)
But regarding space combat, yeah it dropped that one in a big way, large scale battles without anybody using shields, the Defiant having Enterprise D levels of plot armor with deathstar levels of armaments and of course DS9 itself being so overpowered, that the cardassians did not need to build anything else just these things and put some warp drives on them, apparently with two of these they could have conquered the klongons... Why even bother with the Hutet or anything else really, just put a few Teraknors in key systems with a few Galors as support and send a few into conquering the alpha quadrant ...
In that kind of battle I believe the last remaining Galaxy would have retreated
The thing that makes the large Dominion ships so effective is that you can't damage their subsystems. So even after they've lost shields and most of their hull integrity they have the same damage output.
First!
If the Galaxies are Dominion War Veriant; then they’d win. But if they’re the normal it’s 50/50
Honestly after a quick watch, Galaxies could’ve won if you moved away from the Jem’ from what I noticed in playing ST:BC the AI will always pick the closest target to go after; so when it took out the other Galaxy it switched to you.
😳Jeepers Admiral.. the size of the Battleship and all the windows , looks like a city almost.. gosh.. Eeeh., that was a wicked battle gosh.. and yes, almost.. and other way around, just the shield grid on the bottom corner... crumbs on a cracker.. shows all it has wow.. Gosh.. good thing Starfleet had help cause these ships are wicked tough and scary to look at eeh.. Still great battle Admiral.. !😊🖖
The Jemhadar battleship was insane. I think even Shinzon would have nightmares about this one 😂. You can see why the dominion was so tough to beat. Thanks Steve, hope your doing better now 🖖
@@RetroBadgerGaming Yes the Jemhadar battleship was insane for sure.. and yes I think so too, but Riker said the Remans did amazing against the Dominion, not sure what ships used.. Thanks for asking, just still a bit down cause of a channel and trying to ignore it but still puts you down, if can explain it.. Thanks for asking , means a lot.. !!!😊🖖
Being that it was a DS9 episode set during the Dominion war, I'd like to see how the DW Galaxy class refit would do. Because I don't know to which type of Galaxy class he was referring.
What about the remen scimitar verses the jem'hadar battleship. That sounds kind of cool to me. Your videos are a joy to watch. Thank you for such good content. Kind regards from Daniel Harman.
He has done that both ways. Good battles.
Ty for the video and LLAP.... wow the Giant Jem'hadar Battleship is tooo OP!
Those Galaxys need quantums, or have battle groups with them. Not enough firepower otherwise. x3 Galaxies x3 Defiants ought to do it.
In the series its said that the Dominion has thousands of years of technological advancement on the federation, they should be on the level of the Borg or Voth, so pretty much untouchable in combat for the feds. I get that DS9 tried to do a nerd version of an anti-war movie, but the feds should have gotten that peace treaty in a more cerebral way, other than fighting the dominion force on force (and with deus ex machinas like the prophets). I would have done it so: show the dark side of Starfleet as it is shown in the show with Section 31 etc, but instead of stopping Sloan, let him use the virus that would kill most founders, have the remaining ones cured and sealed away (like in Star Trek online) and basically blackmail the Vorta & JemHadar into retreating so they can preserve the last few founders, make Sisko know about this and do nothing because they are losing bad. This would greatly fit in as a finale with the existing subtle hints in the show that the federation is not the good guy, first their expansionism and disregard of territorial integrity is what caused all of it in the first place, later on its hinted with S31 that the federation is just as ruthless as any other empire, but has that sugarcoated exterior, wich allows it to just absorb more "cooperative" cultures & species trough cultural osmosis. But if somebody doesnt play ball, they show their teeth and conviniently have a dedicated department to do the dirty part of plausible deniability, that way idealists like Picard can carry the word around and Section 31 can swoop in after them to do the real "negotiations".
Triple the Power, Triple the Fun, Triple the...Triple Mint Gum?😅🤪
With cellular peptide frosting.
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@jeffcullifer5629 (word play on the ol' Double Mint Gum ad jingle)
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@@jeffcullifer5629 Don't mind MSR. He sometimes grows a third nacelle and speaks Pig Tamarian. 🐖
Slightly off topic but that is a gorgeous Galaxy Class model. The aztecing in particular is stunning.
This is a clever matchup.
"The Video is very good been 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🖖🖖🖖🖖🖖 and have me make much Fun 😂😂😂😂😂!"
that was interesting thx for uploading it.
WOW Jem Hadar family killer! Think of all the families died by destroying the 3 galaxies hahaha
Not watched the vid yet as at work lol but top class premise directly from DS9 👍
I'd wager the Valiant estimation was either:
1) Using Dominion-War Upgraded Galaxies (which would make sense, given the mission took place during the war)
or
2) The Pokemon Problem; might not be the best idea to send kids out into the wild to get your wildlife/tactical information
i like this one good job
The problem with multiple small vs one big battles is that you're gonna lose smalls and that is going to cut into the small side offense while big is still going strong. Unless the smalls can cut into the big's offenses they're going to need significant statistical advantage to win
Indeed! I like how you summed that up. I was thinking that during the battle but couldn't couldn't find the right words 😂🖖
I suspect a TNG-era Galaxy under that kind of bombardment would have easily blown a power coupling or two in the first ten minutes, since that seemingly was what happened most times when the Enterprise D faced ships with less intense firepower. That was a potentially crippling blow. The USS Odyssey’s shields didn’t stand up well to the Jem’Hadar fighters’ polaron weapons either. Like other people have commented, blitzing the Battleship with concerted photon torpedos would have been the best bet. Three Dominion War-era upgraded Galaxy classes would have won I think, and quantum-armed Galaxies would win by a comfortable margin.
There is something to be said about a coordinated attack. If all three galaxies targeted the same shield side and collapsed it, they may have been able to take it down. Seeing how much damage they did uncoordinated.
Hmmm interesting thought. I don't know. Can 3 heavily armed cruise ships take down the Jem Hadar battleship? I don't know... could it be a sink the Bismarck situation? 😀
I like the way you bleeped yourself at the end of the first fight. I actually thought that 3 Galaxies would stand a chance... I wonder if the last one could have finished them. 🤔
Nice Video again. I would like to request: 3 Norway Class Starship against 1 Akira Class
In Orion the regular battleship has a weakness on the shield generator. But you need something like a lunar class to make the best of it
If you take the statement from the episode literally, It has the power of three Galaxy Classes, then the most you could have gotten from this battle is the final Galaxy and the Jem'hadar mutually self-destructing from accumulated hull damage. So, in order to take the battleship out completely, you'd need at least four of them, to have any kind of advantage.
I'd like to see 6 Texas class ships take on the Battleship.
The Jem'Hadar Battleship vs The Reman Scimitar would be epic!
lol, this is like Yamato taking on 3 ocean liners armed with battlecruiser guns.
It woukd be cool to see you put that Dominion ship up against the Schmiter and then against a Borg Cube. Also how about up against the Narada as well?
I'm thinking the Jem'hadar's boast in DS9 was pretty accurate. However, the 3 fighting Galaxy-class starships did not have Dominion-era shields and weapon upgrades.
Either way, I would absolutely love to see the Jem'hadar battleship battle the Reman Scimitar.
that battleship is more like a juggernaut with that much firepower 😮
How about the Alpha Quadrant End Game team-up? A *Galaxy,* a *Neghvar,* a *D'Deridex* and the *Hutet* vs. the Dominion Dreadnaught? Or, if that it is too easy, the Alpha Quadrant *Heavy Cruiser* team-up? The Akira (or Nebula), Vorcha, Obsidian Keldon and D'Deridex vs big bad?
I don't think four heavy cruisers would win, they just don't have enough firepower even though those four are all excellent ships. I think it would take six: Akira, Nebula, Vorcha, Keldon Advanced x2 and the flagship D'Deridex. The Dreadnaught would destroy heavy cruisers too quickly I think for four to survive long enough.
in the bridge commander remastered version i had the luck one time to get it with one defiant class ship. My tactic was to cloak and try to manuver the ship direct under the battleship and focus the warpcore. But u have to be this near that the jemhadar are not able to target their polarons on you. So it was pretty hard to stick direktly under their underneat hull without touching them^^
sorry for my bad english its not my native language^^
great battle although I wonder if saucer separation were a thing how the odds might change
yes i believe the * checks P.A.D.D. * 46 torpedo tubes likely played a factor
Is there any way to fix the transparent ships problem. You can always see stars through them
You should of used the Venture Class refit of the class that would of been a closer match to what would of happen in the war.The Shields would of been stronger and i think the weapons system were slightly more powerful. Also i would agree with what someone said the ego of the "Captain" of Red Squardon was big.
The Dominion battleship is the one vessel you need a second screen just for the weapon status display. What a beast!
I still think however than the three Galaxies could have won with a more coordinated attack. With all three concentrating fire on the bottom side, that flying purple fortress would've been history.
Have you tried firing at its impulse engines ? Maybe that works better than the warp core.
Not necessarily. The battleship had, presumably, at least 3 times the firepower of any one galaxy and also presumably, at least three times the shield strength. Given that it's a dedicated warship it's likely it's hull was also heavily armored, something a Galaxy-class is not. So it's likely the battleship has at least 3 times the firepower and more than 3 times the defenses which would mean it could bariage any one galaxy, quickly overwhelm and destroy it, and move on to the next one, each time reducing the enemy's offensive ability but 1/3.
The galaxies are just outclassed here. I'd think you'd probably need more like 5 or so to destroy the battleship with probably the loss of 2 or 3 galaxies.
Good battle overall. Should've been the Dominion War Refit version of the Galaxy though; probably wouldn't have even been that close w/ all those quantums. I think you could've won if you targeted the impulse engines, or maybe weapon subsystems. It's already so slow that any damage to the impulse engines would make it easy to stay out of it's firing arcs. Going for the warp core is probably the worst thing you can do against the battleship since it's in the middle of the ship and it's not really possible to damage it.
I think you should do the Galaxy X vs the Jem'hadar battleship next out of spite. Bring out the OP phaser lance. :D
Serious question, if captains of a couple of galaxy classes loaded their saucer sections with quantum torpedos and rammed the saucer sections into one of those Dominion battleships would it cause massive damage from the kinetic damage of the saucer sections and the explosive damage from the quantum torpedos?
Edit:
When I speak of the saucer sections i mean after the separation happens and it's just the saucer on programmed inception of the enemy ship.
This is why the Federation needs dedicated Dreadnought like Klingon Neg'Hvar or Reman Scimitar. Federation definitely needs one.
Another problem I'm seeing is, Federation starship aren't designed for sustained combat. Federation does have Defiant class but it's more suited for Dominion bug ships than Dreadnoughts.
personally i am hopeful someone figures out a way to get some sort of online games going. clearly this new update intends at least some sort of multiplayer. it has some pretty advanced mutliplayer missions.
which means that if it was possible to play online, we could do testing of this type but have humans in all the galaxies, for instance. probably it could be done over some sort of direct connect, but in most cases for gaming these days there would be a sort of site dedicated to hosting games. if i remember right, the people who originally hosted bridge commander turned off their servers dedicated to that many years ago
I would have done a saucer separation and had the drive section focus on the under side ot the Jem'hadar battleship!
Oh my. Those vanilla Galaxys were curb-stomped. I think the War Variants take it because the quantum torpedoes make the difference.
That was something that always puzzled me about the Valiant episode. They hit the battleship in its weak spot with the magic torpedoes, but that failed to destroy it. Looked like it did what should have been crippling damage, too. Yet, it played a "Dead, not dead" card and mopped the space floor with the Valiant. I never understood why the special attack didn't work.
6 Galaxy Class ships next time! We must do this for science!!!! :P
Would like to see the big "Huss Knock" ship vs. one of these.
That ships was a recreation created by a super powerful being. It's hard to say how accurate it was to the real thing. But, if so, I think the dominion ship would be massively outclassed given it's opponent is described as "carrying enough firepower to pulverize a planet".
@@177SCmaro I think this game actually has/supports a "Huss Knock" warship, though.
@@johnharrison6745 It would be fan speculation at best.
The dominion was no joke - in the books, the combined Klingon/Federation/Romulan fleets were getting dog walked. They lost 107 ships in one battle.
you know it just occurred to me, this reminds me alot of the scimitar, like I wonder how this would fair against 3 Sovereign class ships
How about two RBG Galaxy class ships against it?
I literally ran to the comment section as fast as I could so I could to say the exact same thing!
If The Dominion consists primarily of the Founders, Vorta & Jem"Hadar then who were the scientists & engineers that design/built their ships? I can't remember any of these 3 species showing any particular skill in this regard. Yes some of their subjugated/allied species may have helped, but given that they built/operated ships in both the Gamma & Alpha Quadrants it doesn't ring true that they'd have had that capacity. Just curious. 🤔
The Vorta. In Season 6 Kira was trying to convince that Vedek lady that Vorta "Facilitators" didn't pose a threat. These facilitators were engineers based on the things they were going to being working on for the Bajorans. Also, I tend to think that Dominion industrial techniques rely heavily on advanced industrial replicators doing far more construction than AQ models. It is the only to explain the speed they are able to build both Dominion and Cardassian vessels, and how the resource poor Cardassian Empire can all of a sudden support the largest industrial base in the quadrant. This is inferred in the Lower Decks episode where Quark steals a Karemma replicator. It is far more advanced than Federation models.
the thing here is that you have precise phasers, so you are at an advantage when you keep your distance, where the polaron beams do not fire at you with 100% accuracy, simple as that
I think if it had been 3 human controlled ships then it would of done the job, id be interested to see how 3 sovereign class ships do against it
How many Titan-As would it take?
RetroBadger try 3 RBG Dominion war-upgraded Galaxy classes vs. the Jem Hadar Battleship! I'd like to see if even the battleship can withstand being pummeled with several volleys of 30 quantum torpedoes each!
If 5 Defiants could just barely take this ship out then I honestly couldn't see just 3 Galaxy class ships doing so WITHOUT quantum torpedoes. Now if these were RGB Galaxy class ships then I think they would've totally messed up that Battle Cruiser. Hell, even 1 RGB paired with 2 standard Galaxy class ships could possibly have made this at least a more equal competition IF the RGB wasn't targeted first and had time to weaken them with quantums. As it stands, the Galaxy class ships could take a beating from the Battle Cruiser for a little while but they lacked the firepower to successfully put it down first.
Would love to see this with 3 Sovereigns instead. If you haven't done that already...
I am extremely sceptical of Red Squad saying that this ship is 3x more powerful than a Galaxy class.
Those were kids, with highly inflated ego's who could run a ship yes, but it was questionable at best, and their decisions were also questionable.
Try doing a 3 rbg galaxy class ship against the dominant warship
It also would have been intresting to see the effect of full spread rather than single shot torpedoes at that range.
While I enjoy your channel and video, Badger, the simulation's accuracy is compromised by the 25% power increase for your Galaxy and Dominion ships. A more realistic scenario would involve all ships operating at 100% power. However, even then, the AI's less aggressive behavior, as seen in the first scenario where the other Galaxy class significantly reduced torpedo fire, would still skew results. For a truly accurate simulation, human control of all ships would be ideal, assuming the game supports multiplayer.
Need to use 3 War Galaxy starships and try this battle again.
Five dreadnaught class from TOS era against one galaxy class.
Sooo 5 galors 🤣😂🤣
Is it the Predator or the Super Battleship version of the Founder?
Nice textures on the Galaxy's . But their defeat was totally predictable on this game 😆
I wonder what the outcome would have been if you had been firing full spreads of torpedoes instead of single firing them. It should have increased your loading time as the magazine is expended in a full volley and can start refilling the magazine immediately after firing and the full spread maximizes the damage as most shields were never designed to take 10 photon torpedoes at once in a single shield face. I wonder how three RBG Galaxy classes would handle this ship.
Lets see how the connie refit refit does?
I would have taken one of those three Galaxies and set it on a collision course with their warp core: seems appropriate.
Perhaps see what a Galaxy X class can do?
How about putting the battleship against the Scimitar?
If it's not to much trouble could you do the Kelvin enterprise vs all the other enterprise?
The big decider is the armor, Galaxy systems are far easier to get at and disable than the ones on the dominion ship. Just adding armor to the galaxy would make a huge difference, with the wartime upgrades to phasers and quantum it'd be a lot closer. @jarsia said it pretty well the concentrated burst fire from 3 Galaxies couldn't be ignored.
Pity you cant separate each galaxy class, giving you 3x more torpedo launchers. Might be enough. War refit galaxies should do it tho.
3 Galaxy Classes? Based on what I saw you'd need 4 or more Galaxies. Great battle though.
I think tactics-wise it's doable, but with the computer handling the other two ships, it's not going to go well. You could alternate ships ducking behind each other to regen shields since they wouldn't be using their weapons systems and then alternate, this would force the enemy to constantly be taking damage while the SF ships are not. Depending on the energy capacity and regen rates this would not be viable, but you could have two SF ships covering the one that needs regen while pumping out damage. Clearly in space battles, the point is to maximize your weapons on target while minimizing the incoming damage and protecting your ships.
Honestly I still think the galaxy class could take this. The problem is the limitations of Bridge Commander. The other ships weren’t coordinating their fire with you the vast majority of the time, and the only times they were it was sheer luck. If the game allowed limited command over allied ships, giving you the ability to tell them which parts of the shield grid to fire on and which subsystems etc the fight would have gone very differently.
if you have please tell me where but I would love to see how many JemHadar fighters the Defiant can handle.
You should have told the fleet to target its sensors. That's the easiest way.
How about a Presidio class vs a sovereign class?
Please switch to the Generations variant. It would hold up better than the stock version for certain.
Wonder if possible in the games engine to mod it so if your ship goes down you get transferred to another ally ship
In kobayashikaru you can beam to an allied ship, although it tends to crash 🖖
Springfield vs Galor match up? Love the Springfield class
Mate you should try Excalibur vs Neghvar!!
The trick is to stay at the underside of that battleship. If Retro knew how to fly the ship, he could've won.
what about a Jem'hadar Battleship vs a borg cube?
How would this Dominion Battleship perform against a Reman Scimitar Warbird?